Todd Jensen writes...

A question about Xanatos as portrayed in "Future Tense". This was the last episode in the series where Xanatos was the antagonist (even though it may not count as such, given that it turned out that it wasn't really Xanatos). And what recently struck me about it was that here Xanatos, for once, was acting in a manner more like a conventional cliched cartoon villain than he did anywhere else in the series. He took over Manhattan by force, enslaved the population and plunged them into poverty and misery, had the city patrolled by Mutate soldiers on the ground and Steel Clan robots in the air, murdered his own son without even an ounce of pity or remorse, and was plotting to seize control over the entire planet. All very evocative of the stereotypical super-villain that one would expect to find in a more conventional animated series.

Also, in this episode, Goliath did (momentarily) "destroy" Xanatos (or the Xanatos Program masquerading as him) in the cyberspace battle (just before it turned out that it was really Lexington operating the Xanatos Program behind the scenes), in what could count as their final battle.

So, was "Future Tense" designed, in part, to trick the audience into thinking that "Gargoyles" was going to end with a more conventional showdown between Goliath and Xanatos, a more stereotypical "final battle", before going on to reveal, almost immediately afterwards (given that "The Gathering" was the story that came immediately after "Future Tense"), the real manner in which the Goliath/Xanatos conflict came to an end (through the two making peace after the gargs helped Xanatos against Oberon)? A kind of "tricking the audience raised on more conventional adventure cartoon series" method similar to that used in "Leader of the Pack" (where it initially seems as if Xanatos is out for revenge, but it turns out that it wasn't the real Xanatos and that the real one had very different and much more practical goals)?

Aaron writes...

High Noon

<<Anyway, Demona's in atypical dress and species. Who knew it was her?>>

(raises hand) Aw c'mon Greg, not even human form and frumpy clothing can hide the radiant beauty that is Demona. ;) But seriously, who else has hair like that?

Random observation: When human-form Demona leaves her hair alone, instead of putting it up in that dreadful restrained thing she wears as Domonique Destine, she looks like a red-haired Puma sister. (Dominion Tank Police, in case you didn't get the ref)

Anonymous writes...

Just a quick comment. Actually, Demona's"sexpot posing at the clock tower when she confronts Elisa did seem in character to me. I always imagined her smugly suggesting, See, even as a human I'm better looking than you. Her subconscious jealousy of Elisa and Goliath's "connection"
and her "I'm better than you are attitude, contirbute to her flagrantly exhibiting herself." Or in the words of the immortal and unknown, "When you've got it flaunt it." Got to love the Japanese animators on this one.

Todd Jensen writes...

My "High Noon" ramble.

It's hard to be certain what my original thoughts were when seeing this one for the first time (given that that was back in 1995), but I feel pretty certain that I didn't recognize Demona in her human form until the dialogue actually named her. (And given that, as you'd pointed out, up till then, I'd only seen her as a human briefly at the end of "The Mirror", it was easy enough not to recognize her).

I don't recall now what I'd thought of the Demona/Macbeth team-up or where the Weird Sisters were all this time when I first saw the episode, though. Maybe I was just accepting the story as it went along without asking that many questions.

I very much liked Hudson's question about the "hit the sack" idiom, and the bit where Hudson and Broadway were reading the newspaper as the link back to "Lighthouse in the Sea of Time". Both struck me as very enjoyable touches.

I sometimes wonder if Officer Morgan will ever realize just how helpful he was to Elisa in helping her gain the strength to face Demona at Belvedere Castle. This may very well count as his biggest moment in the series to date.

The revelation at the end that the Sisters were behind it all, and - more importantly - that the real targets were the Grimorum, the Eye of Odin, and the Phoenix Gate definitely surprised me. One thing that I do remember from my first time seeing the episode was this: for some odd reason, I was under the impression that "the coming battle" that the Sisters mentioned was something slated for the end of the season (Episode 65 or close to it), a grand finale conflict of some sort. Well, it was a big battle, but it took place in "Gargoyles" a lot sooner than I was expecting.

(One little thing that I must admit: a good thing for Demona that she was using the Grimorum to shield herself from prying eyes during the day. I don't think that she would have been too appreciative of the way that male humans might have been looking at her in that outfit as a human if they could have seen her :)

Cassandra writes...

Cassandra writes...
Since stroking hair is gargoyle equilvant to a kiss, all the times Goliath touched Elisa's hair was a kiss? And how long would it take him to get used to kissing with lips?

Just feeling a trifle silly with that thought. But I seem to remember Goliath touching her hair fondly before they noticed or decided to act on the feelings they have for each other.

Greg responds...

Kissing is special, particularly romantic kissing. I'm not sure one wants to "get used to it" ever. It will always be special to Goliath.

And yes, everytime he touched her hair in any intimate way (as opposed to by accident or incidentally) it was the basic equivalent of a kiss. But by the way, it wasn't often.

recorded on 02-15-01

Okay, to clarify what I was talking about I think I was remembering the end of "Deadly Force". Goliath brushes Elisa's hair back when he tells her to sleep.

I didn't mean "getting used to it" to equal "become blaise about it". More like kissing is a feels-great-still-weird-but-I-like-it situation and Goliath would feel more comfortable with gargoyle display's of affection.

I know they're both mature adults and both of them realize there is going to be a lot of compromising and explaining in their relationship. It's just a quirky idea that popped in my head.

Todd Jensen writes...

A little thought I've had for some time, inspired by the occasional protests from this "Gargoyles" fan or that who wanted to see Angela pair up with Brooklyn rather than with Broadway. I've never had any problem with Angela choosing Broadway, and actually think that it works very nicely (not to mention that I don't think that Brooklyn would really have been all that happy with Angela - for one thing, there's the way that he feels about her mother). But there is one thing about this business that has amused me.

Although I've seen a number of protests about Brooklyn not becoming Angela's mate, I haven't seen one case of a "Gargoyles" fan, to date, who wanted Lexington to become Angela's mate. Looks as though Lex doesn't have that much of a fan club :)

Aris Katsaris writes...

Justin> You seem to think that "fat" and "obese" are one and the same. They are *not*. Trust me on this, Broadway isn't obese, not by any definition of the word...

Jim R. writes...

Greg,
Not to be rude, but I read some of your rambles about stuff. What are they SUPPOSED to MEAN?! I can't make heads or tails as to what you're talking about or where you're going with these alternative outcomes...Whatever you're rambling about, trust me, you're beginning to make me think of parallel outcomes for everything I saw in Gargoyles which is MORE like something I'd watch on Star Trek. Now, don't scare me. (And you said you tried to avoid such unstrict storylines which Star Trek producers are famous for.)

Jon writes...

Favorite smart-ass remark:

Faieq writes...
In the Gargoyles Universe, how much truth is there in fortune cookies?

Greg responds...

All cookies are true. Especially Peanut Butter cookies.

(Personally, I've known a few disingenuous peanut butter cookies in my time, so I'm not sure I can back you on this one, Greg)

Good luck regaining your edge!

Jim R. writes...

matt,

I thought the skiff was blown up at first, but i remembered that only happened in the "Future Tense" episode, which I suppose wasn't real to Goliath. But no one could accidently go to Avalon, because one would first have to recite the Latin to reach it. I got you on this one buddy. :)

Durax writes...

City of Stone scenelet>> When Gil crushed the rose, I thought this was to tel the audience that, the scars on his face did more than damage his looks. I thought he had lost his sense of smell too. In my mind this provided even greater cause for him to grow more and more embittered against Demona. I don't think this is what you were intending though, not anymore.

Justin writes...

Greg,
A few weeks ago Anonymous writes
<Are there any female gargoyles who are obese? How about muscular or extremely skinny? Are any females bow-legged?
Are there gargoyles with differnent wing and ear types than the types that were shown on the series?
You know how some gargoyles have a sharp elbow or knee spike that juts out, I was wondering if any gargoyles have them on both knees and elbows because it was always on or the other.>

To which you replied...
<Obese? Not likely, but possible, I guess.

Look, it's all sounding possible.>

Now why is not likely for a gargoyle woman to be obese? Must all of them be fairly skinny like Demona? I don't know man, it seems like a sexist notion of what the female form is supposed to be! Sorry if offends you but with the gargoyles anatomy being similar on the surface, this might boys the neanderthal idea of what female beauty is supposed to be, and girls an impossible standard to live up to. Now don't get me wrong I love the show. Another thing that yerked me. You have mentioned that the original Broadway was going to be a girl. But you changed your minds out of fear of feminist groups being concerned about the evil/fat issue among the two female characters.

Now I would think that feminist groups with all sorts of "agendas" as you put it would love to see a none picture perfect woman in the series. Trust me having the two main female gargoyles in the series model thing didn't exactly endear the show to them I'm sure ;)

Sorry if this sounds like a rant. I just wanted your honest thought on what I've said.

Thank you

Aris Katsaris writes...

More of a ramble (or two) than a question but here goes:
I believe that someone here in Ask Greg compared Xanatos to Prospero- both having magical assistants... Anyway I was thinking around the same lines, trying to compare Xanatos with characters from mythology:

My first thought was Gilgamesh (I'll ramble about him next) but then I thought an even better match: namely Sisyphus. And, god, this guy seems the most Xanatosian character I know (I even imagine him played by Frakes). He's *very* intelligent (him and Ulysses are pretty much the two clever men of Greek mythology); something of a trickster; he's considered to be something of a villain; and finally in certain stories he has even tried to find a way to defeat death. Two times in fact. One of them involved binding Thanatos (or Hades - not sure which) pretty similar to what the Emir did in 'Grief'...

So questions:
1. Any thoughts on the above? :-)
2. Sisyphus was punished pretty severely for what was seen as villainy (namely his trying to cheat death and angering Zeus in general)... Other than the brief (though admittedly great) scare that Oberon gave to Xanatos, do you think that Xanatos will get a comeuppance for his crimes? He's done worse than Sisyphus I think...
3. There's a third question but I'll post it serarately in case Todd thinks it a story idea...

Corrine Blaquen writes...

What nationality is Titania's human form supposed to be?

I find it very cool that you have so much ethinic/racial diversity in the human cast, from Elisa's Native American/African background to Xanatos's half Greek. It's such a fresh change from other cartoon characters with no heritage at all.

I myself am French-American, and I LOVE it that Fox, one of my favorite characters, is half French-American. Thanks, Greg!

matt writes...

Faieq, Goliath said, "I grow tired of this, take whats left of your men and begone!" i think he meant he was tired of that particular battle and i doubt there had been previous encounters with Hakon.

Todd Jensen writes...

My "City of Stone Part Four" ramble.

I hadn't noticed the bit about Bronx responding to Demona's tone of voice, but I think that it is a good point. I know from personal experience that dogs do the same thing in real life. My mother used to sometimes, for a joke, when she was telling off our dog for doing something naughty, add, still in a condemning tone of voice "You're the most beautiful dog in the world", etc., and note the way that he'd hang his head and look guilty at that.

The Chorus music in the battle scenes in 1057 reminded me a lot of the music in the battle scenes in "Excalibur". (Kind of appropriate, actually, given Macbeth's affinity to Arthurian matters in "Gargoyles").

Good analysis on Macbeth's secret council, and I certainly don't think myself that he would have agreed to betray the gargoyles. (And I don't think, for that matter, that it would have worked even if he had; given the fact that the English still attack Castle Moray even after the gargoyles' desertion, and continue to support Canmore against Luach even after the destruction of Demona's clan, I certainly suspect that Bodhe was inaccurate in his assumption that they had only invaded Scotland to destroy the gargoyles. Historically speaking, of course, they had a number of non-gargoyle reasons - such as the fact that their real-life leader, Earl Siward of Northumbria, was one of Canmore's relatives - but that's another story).

One thing that strikes me about the bit where Canmore "slays" Macbeth is that it brings across the fact that he was something of a rotter. Instead of slaying Macbeth in fair fight, he waits for him to get into an argument with Demona and then stabs him in the back. Not much honor there. At least his Hunter descendants were a bit of an improvement over him and his father (except for the point when Jon Canmore becomes Castaway and afterwards).

I also find Macbeth and Gruoch's final parting a moving moment. One thing that I've got to say about Gruoch in "City of Stone" - it's hard to believe that she's the historical original of one of the most infamous villainesses in all of literature. Shakespeare may have maligned her even worse than she maligned Macbeth (as I said before in my "Long Way Till Morning" ramble, Demona fits the Lady Macbeth role far better than Gruoch ever did).

Back to the present: the big confrontation at the end still moves me, including the Weird Sisters' lines (even after we learn that they don't really practice what they preach). I can't help but wonder what the impact on Demona must have been when she discovered that the fact that killing her would mean his own death was no longer much of a deterrent to Macbeth - was, in fact, more of an incentive. And I agree that "Death is never the answer. Life is." is a great Goliath line. And Demona's "The access code is 'alone'" is a very moving moment; at least, it was for me.

Thanks for the ramble.

The Mighty Thor writes...

Lawrence Stone writes...
How do gargoyles view Homosexuality?

Greg responds...

On cable, like the rest of us.

This has got to be the best on in the arcive, mostly because you play it out so litteraly like with the "cauldran of life" It just really get's me how a question/magic spell can sound so good and start an intelegent conversation and then take any meaning or insight and compleatly nuke it.

Zombie White writes...

SMART ASS STUFF...
you wanted to know those we loved... I liked the Bunji-jumping new olipians and the fea that evolved from books... I like the sens in the non-sens..

by the way, some people asked "what came first, the egg or the gargoyle"... come on, we all know it's the egg... if gargoyles are part of the evolution then they came from dinosaurs that layed eggs :P
then again, dinosaurs came from unicellulars that didn't O.o
who's the smart-ass now !?

Jim R. writes...

I agree with Chris Maune's post. Gargoyles on the Cartoon Network would be a great thing! It would give a chance for some healthy "American animation" to replace some of that mindless Japanese anime that is polluting the minds of our younger generations in the Toonami block. Kids these days just don't know good cartoons when they see them...

matt writes...

no offense to anyone who has posted stuff about gargs evolving from dinosaurs, but i think that it is extremelly unlikely that they did. only Greg and God could convince me that they are saurian descendants.
dinosaurs were all wiped out!!!! what does a garg evolve from? bones? and as for the triceratops head frill and the pterydactyl wings and whatever else, why would all these dinosaurs mate with each other anyway? for that matter, pterydactyls arn't even dinosaurs!
gargs are far more likely to be related to the platypus, the bat, or some other mammal, not dinosaurs.
sorry if i seem like i'm ranting, but for some reason the dinosaur connection just really bugs me...

Todd Jensen writes...

Wow! A new episode ramble! Well, here's my thoughts on "City of Stone Part Three".

I get a chuckle out of the "I never watch television" scene - although I've occasionally thought that the lady must have been reading the script to know that watching Demona's broadcast was what turned everyone to stone :) (Then again, maybe it isn't such a hard connection to make).

Yes, I'd noted that Lulach's name got spelled wrong (I was aware of the original Lulach of history before "City of Stone" came out); thanks for explaining about how that happened.

I mentioned in my ramble on Part Two that the Duncan of "City of Stone" felt a lot closer to the Shakespearean Macbeth than the Macbeth of "City of Stone" did, and the Weird Sisters scene brings it home all the more. They do their "toil and trouble" scene, as per the play (which delighted me from the very first time that I saw the episode) - but note here the twist from Shakespeare. In Shakespeare, the Weird Sisters' words inspire Macbeth to move against Duncan. In "City of Stone", they inspire Duncan to move against Macbeth, instead. (And it says a lot about Duncan that he should completely forget that Macbeth just saved his life a few minutes before, simply because of the words of three old crones).

The scene where the Sisters transfer Demona and Macbeth's ages is a very effective one (although I don't know if I'd gotten the full story there until Part Four came along). So also is the battle scene, including Duncan's fiery end. (Again, I wasn't too surprised by the basic manner in which Macbeth overthrew Duncan; I'd already read that he did overthrow Duncan in actual history - and that it was in 1040, so I was expecting that incident the moment that the "1040" caption appeared on the screen. I'd also read that Shakespeare seems to have borrowed the more familiar murder story from Holinshed's account of the murder of a certain King Duff - apparently the same Duff who appeared in your "Once Upon a Time There Were Three Brothers" story as Kenneth II and Prince Malcolm's older brother. Although that Duff's final days reminded me more of Uther Pendragon's, in his going into his final battle in a litter - but I digress).

A couple of thoughts about Demona at the coronation that really stand out to me. First off, when Demona comments that she'd rather that humans feared gargoyles than respected them, I can't help but think that it shows how Demona doesn't always reason things out. For humans do fear gargoyles - and that's what causes the problem. Humans hunt and destroy gargoyles because they're afraid of them. So I don't think that it's clear thinking on Demona's part to desire that her race be feared.

The other part is the astonished, then delighted look upon Demona's face when the humans in the great hall actually cheer her. Another one of those almost sad moments, in that she's given an opportunity to see what it can be like to be loved by humans instead of feared - and seventeen years later, she'll reject it. A moment equal to her brief "What have I done?" moment in 994, before she changed it to "What have they done?"

I very much liked the Weird Sisters' little lurkings in the background throughout (and caught their policewoman role at once).

Oh, and I like the title "City of Stone". True, it indeed does ignore the flashbacks that are so crucial, but it sounds good. I didn't even notice that trait when I watched the multi-parter.

But perhaps the most intriguing part of "City of Stone" remains this: how many animated adventure series would dare air a story that spends so much of its time in medieval Scotland, as opposed to a more high-tech setting (whether modern-day or futuristic), exploring actual events in early Scottish history? "Gargoyles" was definitely unique in that regard.

I'm looking forward to the "Part Four" ramble.

Patricia writes...

My fave S-A Response :) :

Faieq writes...
In the Gargoyles Universe, how much truth is there in fortune cookies?

Greg responds...

All cookies are true. Especially Peanut Butter cookies.

(This is my favorite question this month.)

Siren writes...

Well, first off, Smart Ass answers are my favorite...But I can't pick one, so here are just a few of my favs.

Airwalker writes...
In the 'ONCE UPON A TIME...' segments you've done, we've seen why Malcolm would need to ally himself with a Gargoyle clan. But why would Hudson want
to ally himself with Malcolm?
Greg responds...
Patience, grasshopper...

Scott Iskow writes...
That last question of mine got me thinking...
Are there flying pigs in the Gargoyles Universe?
(Believe it or not, that's actually a serious question. Go fig.)
Greg responds...
I've got the bacon, do you have the catapult?

ndrew writes...
In the episode the gathering (part 2) what did titania whisper to fox at the end of the episode. I have been wondering this for a long time.
Greg responds...
You and what army?
Oh, yeah. That army. <WAVES> "Hi, guys!"

Heidi Doeing writes...
I don't think, despite your multiple attempts to evade the question, that anyone will stop until the real answer is given:
What did Anastacia whisper to Fox?
( ;) just thought I'd try again)
Greg responds...
You misspelled Anastasia.

Duncan Devlin writes...

My favorite smart-ass response was your answer to the question:
"Which came first, the gargoyle or the egg?"
Your answer: "I DID"

I even drew up a little comic around it in the New Yorker Magazine style.

Dexter writes...

Hey man, I'm back. Dude, so let's say I asked Angela out on a date, and she said yes...

1) What kind of flowers should I bring her? Or would she prefer something more original like...a basket of nectorines or something?

2) what's her favorite color? That's always good to know about a woman.

3) Does she like punk rock? Hey it could be very likely! I mean, after all she did come to New York! I'm sure she's determined to get 'cultured' in her new world, so what style of music do you think she likes? Hey, there's an idea, I could write her a song...that's more personal then flowers. Heh heh, that gargoyle is so cool. When we go out, I'll even whip out my flashy Cheetah Bondage pants for her...I only wear them on very special occasions don't ya know.
You probably think i'm a psycho, huh? Yeah I know, it's a hard truth. I seriously painted her on a wall in my room though. It's pretty sweet! But ya know what Greg, now you have my pathetic posts and questions to look forward too every time you come on to reply! Besides, I've been through the archives, and as you know, there are people here who have way more issues then I do! Later Dude!

Jim R. writes...

Greg,

I never "was" picking on matt. When I first found this place, I saw how much he was posting and I thought I'd ask him, since I really had no other way to communicate with him at the time. And after he responded with his email included, I started talking to him more frequently. He mentioned my name, and I did his. BUT, it was all in good fun! I never ment to be negative, but I guess you took it that way... Please don't be mad with me! :)

[Jim R. bows at your feet in forgiveness.]

matt writes...

Greg,
there seemed to be a mix up about the relationship between Jim R. and i. we actually met through this site a couple months ago and are now friends. we talk on the computer but have never met, however we hope to meet at the 2002 Gathering or sometime. Jim R. may have been picking on me, but in a friendly way so it's not a problem. thanks!
-matt

Simon Bucher-Jones writes...

Not actually but after the recent time travel thread referenced a book of mine at one point I just wanted to say
how great I think your show is!

warrioress writes...

My favorite smart-ass response:

Someone wrote...

What do you you think would be the reaction of the Canmore siblings (especially Jon) if they found out that Demona literally killed their father with one hand tied behind her back? (She was holding onto the Praying Gargoyle at the time he attacked her.)

Greg answered:

Gee. I think they'd dance a jig.

Whaddaya think their reactions would be?

Then there was the one person asking how Goliath was able to shave on the Avalon Tour, and Greg said something about Superman volunteering his heat vision.....

VF writes...

My favorite responses (to most things, actually) are the ones that reveal a witty-but-slightly-quirky sense of humor without being malicious. So I'd have to pick these:

1) "... I realize that isn't the kind of answer you were looking for. ... And that amuses me."

2) "It's not that I didn't understand the question. It just struck me, no offense, as too silly to answer in any straight way. ... And the funny thing is, it still strikes me that way."

Emmlei writes...

fav smart-ass response: in reply to aris's follow-up about one my latest whisper question
Oh, well if that's what you want, then the answer is...

Hey, was that you're plan all along? To appeal to my sense of perversion?

yeah, that questions been asked way too much. so you gonna tell us? j/k

Jim R. writes...

Here's one of my favorite smart-ass responses:

Anonymous writes...
do you know where i can find a picture of some neat looking gargoyles? like the ones out of a comic book.

Greg responds...
Nope. Have you tried comic books?

Revel writes...

Okay, after going through the smart ass archive I know I definitly want to meet you in LA
My favorite was the guy swooning over Angela and your drawn out response.
-Sure, more power to you........Poor slob
My thoughts exactly. There's a world outside them for walls!

Todd Jensen writes...

Here's one of my favorites from the "Smart-ass Responses" section, as per your request:

<<What Would Happen to a gargoyle in space?

Greg responds...

They'd explode in the void, just like a human.>>

matt writes...

Greg, i love those smart-ass responses and it would be hard to choose one favirote, but i always thought that this one was pretty good:

-How do gargoyles view homosexuality?
-On cable, like the rest of us.

i also liked:

-After clones, superviruses, and mutates what could Sevarius possibly cook up next?
-Breakfast?

you sound like Xanatos in "The Edge" when he thinks he's lost his. i think you still have the edge in smart-ass responses, you are hilarious!

Ray Kremer writes...

All the rambles on City of Stone recently brought back some memories. While that season was airing I was in High school, and the English Class that semester was British Literature. Beowulf, Canterbury Tales, and of course Shakespere. We did the Scottish play not too long after CoS aired and when I was reading the book the voice of John Rhys-Davies always found its way into my head.

The classroom also had a big poster of the complete family tree of the royalty of the British Isles. You can imagine how much fun it was to look back to 11th century Scotland and find the names of Gillecomgain, Gruoch, and Luoch right there with MacBeth, Duncan, and Malcom Cannmore.

Then when we got to Arthurian Legend I asked the teacher what the significance of Avalon was besides being Arthur's final resting place, half expecting to hear it was the traditional home of the fairy kingdom. (Never could be too sure what was real, what you were making up, and what was some of both.)

Kirshanta writes...

Alright.
I just realized how long it has been since you've dropped by (I had a hard time finding the end of the page). This one is quick.

I need to know if you are planning to do an episode about the Fourth Race. I know it hasn't been mentionned, but since I have discovered them, I need to know if I have to hurry up and get published before someone else does.

(Not that it wouldn't be complimentary to be beaten by you, but you know - copyrights and all that...)

Kirshanta writes...

Hello.

My question is actually a permission. If I have used events in the Gargoyles animation and saga in a novel, do I need to ask Greg's permission or can I simply post a Disclaimer saying that Gargoyles are the property of Disney and the events from the Saga are used without permission?

Cassandra writes...

Correction for my last Ask Greg response. I accredited Demona's guilt, grief, and brief super-gargoyle aging appearance to the episode "Vows" when I meant it was in one of the "City of Stone" flashbacks. I apologize for any confusion.

Duncan Devlin writes...

Hey Greg,
At some point it just hit me to thank you. I got a 4 (out of 5, which is still pretty good) on the Language Advanced Placement exam. Since watching Gargoyles and writing about it while in seventh grade was strongly responsible, I decided that a "thank you" was in order, so...

THANK YOU

Sincerely,
Duncan Devlin

Cassandra writes...

A small ramble of my own about "Vows".

I always felt (especially after "City of Stone") that it would be much more tragic if the young Demona was trying to prevent what she had seen.

As her adult evil version explained, humans destroyed the clan. So ties with humanity should be severed. And with the way the humans eventually treat the gargoyles, who could really fault that separatist view? The clan should get the castle because they were here first. So when the oppurtunity arose, she made the deal with the Captain. But part of her knew what was doomed to happen and that's why she hid.

Which I think explains her grief, guilt, and brief aging in "Vows". This was what she was trying to prevent and it happened any way.

Maybe that makes her less flawed. Or maybe it just a bigger fuel for her denial.

Just my humble opinion. Later.

Blaise writes...

CITY OF STONE PART 2

What can I say about the first few harrowing minutes that you haven't already pointed out? I knew Xanatos would be able to pull them out of the drop of course. And you're right, his lines here are great.
I like Brooklyn's back at the Clock Tower as well, simply for the dramatic irony.

Ahhh, so THAT'S why Broadway didn't have a single line in the CITY OF STONE multi-parter! (seriously, I noticed that little fact on one of my re-viewings) As with Xanatos' chopper pilot being Fox, the "blind man" who helps clue in the gargoyles being Jeffrey worked better for me--personalized things more. And in this case, cut down on the "coincidence factor". On top of that, Jeffery's just one heck of a great character. I love how he remains pretty aware that the gargoyles are a little more in touch with what's going on, but doesn't press it too hard. Also, one of my famous "between character" beats, after Brooklyn blurts out a question:
Jeffrey: (amused)"Your friend is impatient."
Hudson: "The curse of youth."
I don't know why, but I like that little exchange. It just seems fitting.

Brooklyn's hatred of Demona comes off as strong as ever, and I like how Goliath handles that particular problem.

Demona and the slaughter...one of the most chilling and memorable moments in GARGOYLES. It sure goes farther than most other American animated series I'm familar with. The gal with her arms shot off "LESS HARSH?" Yeah. Sure. Whatever.
PERSON 1: "Um, instead of killing this one, don't you think you could just mutilate her body instead?"
PERSON 2: (evil villain voice) "YEAH, heh heh heh heh heh heh--*cough*ahem* Whatever you say."
Man I would have loved being privy to some of these S&P conversations.

I did wonder why Macbeth wore the Hunter's mask, but it wasn't an extremely pressing issue for me. Mac had his reasons--he ALWAYS has his reasons. I did like the new "eye-less" design. It also seemed to have a pretty clear metallic sheen...or I could be wrong.

Bodhe's switch from "big man" to "yes man" in the flashback I had noticed, but only dimly. I knew he was definitely shifting tactics to get what he thought was the best outcome...and Macbeth always listens to him. That scene on the hill is always difficult for me to watch. The voice acting and animation of the characters are quite good, and man I always feel frustrated for Macbeth.

You are right about Emma Samms. She didn't leave too much of an impression on me until Part 4, but that's a ways off yet.

Duncan, the @$$hole--that's how I'll always remember him from this. Of course he gets a bit of his own from Gillcomgain in that one scene--one of my favs in this episode I might add. Then Duncan comes up with the whole "He fooled me completely" routine for Macbeth--who buys it.

I knew Demona's "Never again" line was in reference to the Captain's betrayal, and I always liked that touch. I also like when Demona says "I make no promises" in reference to allying with a human, and the Weird Sisters smile.

Gillcomgain didn't need to crush the rose to make me feel okay about hating him--I was cheerfully doing it myself already.
Macbeth fights rather disappointingly in his battle with Gil, I must admit, but he did seem to have the upper hand when Gruoch came out and made the perfect hostage.
I suppose the two "Lovers almost fall over edge" scenes may have been a bit much for some, but they were different enough that it came across more as "parallel"(sp?) than "repeat".
Ah, the unmasking, and the revelation. Demona didn't remember scarring him. I wonder if this little revelation, an action of her's she didn't even remember creating her most hated adversary, had any impact on her. Did she think he was lying, or mistaken?

I don't know why, but I kind of like the Hunter's death more than most other "falling-deaths". Maybe it's because Demona THWACKED him down with her tail, or just that Jim Cummings gives such a great death yell (seriously, I really like it).
Demona thanks a human. A small thing, but of great importance considering what she will become. Still, she seems a bit glad that she doesn't owe Macbeth, seeing that he was the one first in her debt.
The second wedding, boy, everything about it is happier than the first one...except Duncan up in the tower. Nice, chilling little scene there between father and son.

Though the "talking, crumbling triplet statues" is pretty chilling in its own right. I liked that Goliath got mad enough to consider killing Demona--just seemed more natural.

I love Xanatos saving Owen during the fight with Demona--the bad guy saves his side kick. Not something you see very often.
I, unfortunately, did not get the idea that shutting off the broadcast would reverse the spell. Maybe this was because I didn't expect it to be that easy to reverse ANY spell (can we say "castle rises above the clouds"?). Also, since the flashback story didn't seem completely finished, I thought there was more of the multi-parter to go. Anyway, now Xanatos' line, "That should do it, eh Owen? Terrific" makes more sense to me. I had thought that maybe Xanatos had momentarily forgotten that Owen was stone, but it just didn't quite fit.
I DID however, get the idea that Demona and Macbeth feel each other's pain right from where it was introduced. The fight, while good, really just seemed like added candy around that juicy revelation. I was ready to learn the background about the connection.

Like Todd, one of my favorite things about the ending, where the hero and villain agree to team up, is that the villain suggests the alliance. "Do you want vengence, or a solution?" Xanatos remains so pragmatic here it's astounding. And for the record, I personally do like the fade-out on the handshake.

Waiting for Part 3

Todd Jensen writes...

Some time ago, I heard a fellow "Gargoyles" fan say that he considered Matt something of a hypocrite in that, while he was setting out to expose the Illuminati to the world, he was willingly joining in the efforts to keep the gargoyles a secret and hiding them, even after he became the head of the Gargoyle Task Force - and also condemned Elisa for keeping the gargoyles a secret, especially from Captain Chavez. I didn't agree with that person, feeling that there was a difference between exposing a ruthless and machiavellian secret society that's meddling in everybody's lives and exposing a group of extremely rare beings who have to hide from the world because most humans consider them monsters and would hunt them down if they knew about them, but I felt vaguely bothered by it, and thought that I'd ask you what your thoughts on the matter were.

Entity writes...

Hi Greg,

In your latest beat sheet for the series opener, I see that the idea of the Trio being young and inexperienced was still prominant. I understand where you came from in eventually changing that, but when I first watched AWAKENING I was distraught by the Trio. Every gargoyle we saw was a full-fledged warrior. Where _were_ the inexperienced kids? The elderly? It seemed slightly out-of-sync that the Trio were such able-bodied fighters. Was the Viking attack a real threat or wasn't it?

That is just my original impression of the events of the initial Viking attack. Later on, when the gang counterattacks the camp, I can understand their participation.

I guess the battle just came off too light-heartedly when we glimped the Trio, starkly contrasting with characters like Goliath's and Demona's scenes. A real sense of danger is added by Hakon drawing Goliath's blood, boulders crashing into stone, refugees huddling about, the Captain barking orders, etc. But then we have the Trio gallavanting through the battle like it's, as Brooklyn puts it, just "fun."

I think their innocense could have been portrayed in a way that didn't detract from the realism that was so effectively installed earlier on.

This isn't intended to come off as pure criticism. AWAKENINGS was brilliant, especially Part 1. But I thought I'd mention my first impressions.

Another little thing I noticed from the beat sheet is that the flashback originally began showing the refugees entering the castle, with the Marauders/Vikings on their tail, and then both parties camp for the day till dusk. This struck me in two ways: First, it gave me a better grip of realism. Enemy attackers camping right outside the castle, both sides waiting for the battle to begin... that could've added a cool flavor to things, and immerse us more into the medieval setting. Secondly, showing the refugees herded into the castle beforehand would've better clarified the events surrounding the battle. In the final product, we jump straight into the fight and, as a result, a reason is not even necessarily needed. The Captain's off-hand comment about refugees comes off as superfluous. I remember shrugging. 'That's nice' I thought. We were in the battle. Who needed backstory? Of course, the refugees were an important component, for the sake of Tom and his mother, and to better portray the environment of 10th century Scotland. If we'd seen the prologue to the battle, that's included in the beat sheet, I think it would've been much more effective.

I guess what this comes down to in the end is my earlier message I sent to you, in which I asked about trimming episodes with Last Time and Next Time segments. You defended, saying they were useful for tightening the episodes, but I put forth, as shown here, that some valuable stuff can be lost. Of course, it's doubtful you would've wanted or could've gotten a 6th Part to AWAKENINGS, but don't you think you could use ANY extra time you have to better flesh things out?

matt writes...

i'd just like to make a comment about gargoyles kissing. i think that stroking the brow ridges or hair is an extremely intelligent and important things in the garg series. first of all, it gives them some culture very different from humans and second, given that many gargs have beaks kissing becomes kinda hard to do. i'm surprised that Broadway and Angela kiss but i understand Greg's explanation that this is because of human influences on these two. good job, Greg, these subtle differences between humans and gargs really gives depth to the show!

Corrine Blaquen writes...

I was reading your "beat sheet" for the pilot you drew up, and it seemed that at first you didn't intend for Demona to be Goliath's mate. What made you change it, if you hadn't planned it since the beginning?

Blaise writes...

CITY OF STONE

[flexes fingers] Gonna be doing a LOT of typing about this one.

The opening scenes with the hostage situation are pretty good (Terrorist fires off a round of gun-fire and Matt wryly responds, "Think they're starting to see it our way?" The more I think about it, the more I realize how fun this guy is).
Slow person that I am, I didn't pick up on the Weird Sisters' oddity until they started talking to Goliath. Then they disappeared and that sort of clinched it. I knew they were talking about Demona (an idea probably helped by my reading a "Disney Adventures" article on GARGOYLES that litterally described her as a "Gargoyle terrorist").

The heretofore(sp?) unseen conversation between Demona and the Captain is finally revealed (and thanks to your ramble, the reason Demona looked a bit aged in some of the shots--that always drives me CRAZY!). On about my second viewing (I'm still slow) I finally picked up that the "Dawn Attack" was a back-up plan, and the original plan was attacking at night with the gargoyles away from the castle.
It always kills me to see Demona ALMOST tell Othello and Desdemona...and then not. Just like it always kills me later when she ALMOST accepts responsibility for what just happened...and then pushes it off on the humans. The first time I saw that, I was almost literally left breathless, it just seemed so...I don't know--I really cannot describe what that scene made me feel.

Backtracking a bit--The "Tears of Stone" are indeed a nice touch. Very effective, even the second time. In fact that whole sequence where Demona kisses the Goliath statue good-bye is one of the more heartbreaking parts in the series (especially considering the fact that now Demona tries to KILL Goliath).
Love the shattered "Coldstone-head" and Demona's anguished wail/roar; an excellent Act-ender.
The Eggs--You're right, I never gave them a thought after Xanatos mentioned them. Even after this, I didn't give them much thought, for much the same reason as Todd (a thousand years? Honey, they're dead by now--Avalon? Well now, that's different).
Gillcomgain (however you spell it). I liked the trickle of blood that came through his hands after Demona had slashed him. That's just the fiend in me.

Back in the present:
I entirely bought Demona's story about how she lived forever. Xanatos' interest in immortality caught me by surprise a bit. Wasn't this like the first time his desire to live forever was brought up?
"Listen, or watch, but not both." I wondered why Xanatos seemed so intent about this, and it took Hudson's explanation in the next episode for me to catch on. But I like it. It gives that extra complication to the magic.
Yeah, Owen being mesmerized and lifted into a chair while Demona gave the final phrase of the spell was a bit of a cheat. I try to rationalize it, like always (she...had a special talisman palmed in her hand--yeah, yeah!).

Then the Weird Sisters as "Modern Maidens" (if you will). Yeah, Phoebe looking at Seline while she's addressing Luna is a bit aggrivating, but on my tape, as she's finishing the line, after turning her head to Seline, Pheobe's eyes look back in Luna's direction. Maybe in times of great excitement Pheobe just gets her sisters mixed up (for half a second).

Demona and the guards. Yeah, she did NOT age well. The guards--in my mind, they're dead (that mace coming down seemed pretty final to me). I liked that about this 4-parter--people actually DIED. It added more emotional weight.

Demona's Second (I KNEW IT! I just KNEW that was John Rhys-Davies doing his voice). Yeah, I like him too, probably because he was the only other gargoyle in Demona's band who spoke and managed to develop a definitive personality (even when he wasn't speaking, his animated actions/reactions were great). Considering what happens to him off-screen in part 4...so much for not personalizing the victims.
The Weird Sisters as gargoyles--good, and I love their designs.

Ah, the happy days of Macbeth's youth. Like Todd, I find it all the more despicable of Duncan to order Findlaech's(sp?) death after Findlaech's true pledge of loyalty. Bodhe's cowerdice did register for me, but I only REALLY began to take full note of it as the multi-parter progressed and in later viewings.
The Hunter (I LOVE that title--any one word title that has a "The" before it just really piques my fancy). Yeah, I knew it was Gillcomgain (thanks to the painted scars on the mask). Yeah, the more I thought on it the less sense it made that no one would suspect him with those scars on his face. Still, he did wear a hood, and the very nature of his business may make a few people want to overlook any similarities, assuming they even had time to make note of the scars on the Hunter's mask before he A) gutted them or B) disappeared again.

Findlaech's death is the "fall-death," but I don't mind it too much here, and Macbeth's reaction makes it all the more tragic.
Demona saves the young couple. It's actually nice to see her make the "good-guy" choice here. It still shows a glimmer of what she once was, as opposed to how she now acts.

Unfortunately, no I never got the impression that Gillcomgain was going to attack Prince Duncan. But on the plus side the Weird Sisters' appearance really gave the scene an extra impact.
For the record, I was thrilled when I heard Jim Cummings as the Hunter--I think this guy does great voice work.

It was nice seeing Fox here (I had forgotten that in the original outline Derek was the pilot. I'm probably being redundant, but I'm glad you guys were able to go with Fox, it personalizes things even more for Xanatos). And the whole "humans turned to stone" thing really worked for me. When Owen changed, it was just shock--seeing the true nature of the spell. Fox's, more amazing for the danger it put both her and Xanatos in at that moment. Elisa's...her's was the eeriest, due in part to the camera shot and the closing music. I couldn't wait to see the next episode.

Be careful with the rest of these rambles--When it comes to CITY OF STONE I tend to be very long winded and go over almost every scene.

matt writes...

Jim R. and i were just discussing how to get certain with-held info from you by tricking you when we realized just how ruthless we fans can be. thats okay, cuz your smart-ass responses are worth not getting the answers we seek. keep up the good work!!!

Sixshot writes...

I always loved City of Stone 1-4.

My favorite moments :
- Demona smashing the soldiers at the food raid. Vengeance never tasted so cold.
- Gillecomegain entrance at Moray. Nice cloak.
- Demona ripping the mask off Gillecomegain. Demona never realized that she ruined a little boy's life.
- Duncan quote about the mask to baby Canmore.
- The coronation of Luach by Bodhe. Very dramatic.
- Final battle at the Eyrie Building. The double-punch by Demona-MacBeth at Goliath was priceless.
- Xanatos' quote about 'fire at them, sort this out later'.
- The mask passing from one Hunter to another during the whole series.
- And of course, Oeqn's note about 'even cable'.

My only complaints:
- Demona waiting all night to make up her mind on revealing or not her bargain with the captain.
- Demona didn't slaughter Katherine and Magus to retake the eggs.
- Gillecomegain putting the mask to kill MacBeth. Hey buddy, you only for the hunt!
- MacBeth comment about Robots/Gargoyles taking off from the world tallest building in a frozen city. Frozen or not, you can still notice Robots/Gargoyles taking off from the world tallest building.

Todd Jensen writes...

My ramble-response on "City of Stone Part Two".

I very much enjoyed it (like the other parts of "City of Stone"). A few specific thoughts:

The 11th century flashbacks continued to be good ones. I particularly liked Macbeth and Gruoch's scene on the hill, the "villains-fall-out" part between Duncan and Gillecomgain, and Duncan's afterwards duping Macbeth into going against Gillecomgain. (One thing that I recently found myself wondering was whether Duncan was hoping to trick Macbeth into killing Gillecomgain for him as a means of disposing of a former henchman who was now becoming of a problem to him, as a means of forcing Gillecomgain into killing Macbeth by having Macbeth attack him, or maybe even whether he was hoping that they'd kill each other and get rid of two problems for him at once).

One thing that strikes me about the Duncan of "City of Stone" (here already in the first two parts and even more in Part Three): he's a lot closer to the Macbeth of Shakespeare than the Macbeth of "City of Stone" is. Duncan is here the one who ensures a clear path to the throne by murdering the opposition; furthermore, he moves against Macbeth in a manner almost evocative of Macbeth's moving against Banquo in the play, because of the fear that Macbeth will cheat him and his future lineage of the throne. (It strikes me as significant that Duncan renews his scheming against Macbeth after Canmore's birth, as if that was the catalyst for it: now he has a future dynasty to protect, rather than just his own personal ambitions). The one significant difference is that the Duncan of "Gargoyles" never shows any of the internal torment or remorse that the Macbeth of Shakespeare shows over his criminal deeds; apparently Prince Duncan is much more hardened and callous.

I also like the touch of Demona genuinely failing to recognize Gillecomgain as the boy she attacked back in 994, even after he spells it out to her. (Definitely fits Demona's character a lot).

For the present-day parts: I liked Jeffrey Robbins' return, and thought that it was well-integrated into the story. Demona's massacre was very chilling. As for Xanatos shutting off the broadcast, I picked up on later showings the notion that he initially thought that that would be enough to undo Demona's spell, but I'm not so certain that it occurred to me the first time around.

The thing that interests me most about the ending, actually, isn't so much Xanatos and Goliath calling a truce as the fact that it's Xanatos who brings up the need for a truce with the words "Do you want vengeance, or a solution?" Temporary truces between the hero and the villain over a common foe happen often in adventure cartoons - but how often is it the villain who realizes the need for it first and has to convince the hero of it? The line tells us a lot, I think, about Xanatos's uniqueness: he has common sense, and the clear understanding that finding a way to undo Demona's spell is a much greater priority than just looking for someone to punish.

Looking forward to the rambles on the remaining two parts.