Charles writes...

just reading your lighthouse ramble

I was myself surprsied, and continue to be, at the same moment your daughter was, being the scene where Macbeth says he will test Merlin's magic on Broadway. It felt out of character. Even disregarding what we were to later know of him, up to this point he doesn't seem to be the same type of ruthless villain as Demona or Xanatos. He has already gained that grey shading of character and it is hard to get a handle on his exact motives, but it felt to me he was already established to be very interested in concepts of honor and wouldn't stoop to such actions as using a sentient being as a lab rat, especially after he'd given his word. It's not honorable.

After later episodes and more background is given on him, his behavior in this episode just feels even more out of character. It becomes established that he is a man of deep honor, and while he doesn't act altruistically, like the gargoyles, he doesn't act nefariously either. He acts in his own best interests, but within limits. His saying he'd test Merlin's magic on Broadway is teh equivalent of Xanatos about to test the Cauldron of Life on Hudson, but this just doesn't feel right in my understanding of Macbeth. Such an action is a depth I don't see him willing to take, no matter what his ends are.

I'm also reading your memo and getting uncomfortable about the term "villain" being used in regards to Macbeth as a description and as an explanation for his motives and actions in this episode. I guess it was always my own personal taste and regard for the character that I never once saw him in that light; I always saw him as distinguishly neutral.

I can understand when you say this type of confusion is exactly what you wanted, but sometimes I don't see it as much a story type of confusion, where we just don't know him yet and are trying to figure this guy out, but more as a consistency confusion, where his character in other places is inconsistent with his character here.

Just a few of my ideas. And I love being able to get this much discussion and difference of opinion out of a t.v. show.
Here's hoping to seeing you in Orlando.
8-)

Entity writes...

Hi Greg,

As I read the latest set of responses, I became inspired to share something. My grandmother was over one evening for dinner, and I was transfering Awakening 1-5 from one tape to another. Thus, it was playing downstairs. Well, my grandma sat down there for about the whole evening, talking with my dad and such. Now, some info on my grandma (since it's painfully obvious where this is heading): She's almost 80. It would be an understatement to call her a devout Catholic. She thought "Sister Act" was unwholesome. So, I was scared the whole evening that she'd eventually get to asking what show was playing. Instead, she came upstairs at the end of the evening commenting, in that 'stamp of approval' kind of way, that "that show" was really good. I mean, she honestly seemed damned taken with it.

Guardian writes...

In an earlier post, you said Gargoyles airs after 10 pm. However in my time zone it airs at 9:00 pm so your argument about the time it aired was invalid.

Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...

Not a question, but I thought you might appreciate an anecdote: The JSU at Columbia University sponsers a visit by a professional storyteller once a year. The first year the guest speaker was Penina Shram and she spent some time focused on trickster myths from around the world. She was taken aback by the small but vocal group in front that ~happened~ to know of every one she mentioned. Gargoyles was in the middle of the World tour at the time.

Cassandra writes...

Rambling about Legion.

Between Gargoyles and Highlander, the Silver Cup is on my list of places to see if I ever get to New York.

The backstory between Goliath, Othello, Desdemona and Iago was clear enough for the purposes of the episode. But vague enough to warrent an episode or a sub-plot in "Dark Ages." Iago strikes me as a bit like Xanatos, suave and charming when you first meet him but then you find out what he's really up to.

I realized that more than one person had to be inside Coldstone when he started going bonkers at Ellis Island. Though I believe my initial reaction was "he's possessed!", coming from the Bibical quote I believe. Much more cool to actually make the multiple personalties a part of Coldstone's creation. I didn't realize how much damage the computer virus was doing until I read your memo. So I guess sorcery is the reason Iago's soul/personality is still around in High Noon?

I like the idea that "subconsciously Demona knows her man." Her attacks on Elisa are tinged with so much jealousy, it's surprising her eyes don't light up green instead of red. <G>

Mike J. writes...

First a question, then a brief ramble...

Question: To your knowledge, were there ever any Rocky Horror Show jokes at Tim Currey's expense while he was recording Dr. Servarius? You know, him doing the whole mad scientist bit and all.

Ramble: I don't post here often, but I read what's here all the time. I hope the appearance of some treatise sized responces to your episode rambles illustrates to you how successful Gargoyles really was. Despite lackluster ratings, the people you reached, you reached deeply. Speaking as a writer myself, I think that's about the best we can hope to do.

Joel Hodgeson (creator of Mystery Science Theater 3000) was once asked if he ever worried that people wouldn't get some of the more obscure jokes/references he put in the show. He answered that it didn't worry him because the RIGHT people would get it. I think that sums it up nicely.

Damien writes...

I've just recently gotten into Gargoyles and love it so far, especially Demona. I have to say that I really feel sorry for the way she's been treated by humans in the past and it explains her behaviour when she meets Goliath again.
I loved the animation, even 'Enter Macbeth' wasn't that bad (the storyline compensates for the animation I suppose).
I'd have to say that the overall concept (good monsters fighting evil) was aimed at kids. But the individul
episodes, plots and storylines (including Shakespeare characters and plays) attracted an older audience.
I love the idea of the interspecies romance between Elisa and Goliath. It brings the two races together. This also probably attracted an older audience. If gargoyles was ever revived on television again, would you consider putting it on a channel that more adults watched? It might help the ratings of the show.
I was disappointed to learn that the I was watching re-runs of the show.
I can't wait to see the movie and I'm sure it will encourage Disney to revive the show again.

Abigail Thorne writes...

A few days ago I took out my store-bought copy of "Gargoyles, The Movie," which is the first five episodes without commercials. I was trying to remember why I hadn't watched it in a while. That question was immediately answered once I started watching it.

There are certain details in the movie--background music, sound effects, scene editing--that are either off or just plain wrong. The sound of Goliath crushing Elisa's gun, the arrows flying through the air during the Viking battle, the metallic sounds of the Steel Clan opening their wings and firing their cannons--they are all different, and they drive me crazy!! Then there's the background music, which either starts too late or is completely wrong for that particular scene. But the most excrutiatingly obnoxious error of all is the sound of the gargoyles gliding--it's this high-pitched swooping noise, like a mechanical glider, or something, I don't know what exactly, but it's NOT RIGHT!! {Loud scream of frustration!!!!!!!}

I know, I know, these are fussy nitpicks, but the little details really do effect the quality of the program. I'm a diehard Gargoyles fan who's seen these episodes dozens of times, so hearing a difference makes me cringe. So yeah, what's the point of this post? To ramble, to complain, and to ask if anyone else (yourself included) had noticed and were annoyed by the changes made in "Gargoyles, The Movie."

Thanks for letting me rant. And vent. I feel better now.

Tana writes...

Dear Greg,

Just read your Legion ramble...and I have to say this:

At the time when I first saw that Episode, I knew that Iago was trying to indicate that Goliath was betraying Othello with Desdemona, but I didn't understand why the credits listed the characters with such names. Boy was I naive.

A couple years later I was taking a Shakespeare class and read Othello. Can you imagine, about Act 2 somewhere we're reading it outloud and all of a sudden I say outloud: OH I GET IT. My friends thought I was insane. I had to give a quick explination for my outburst, which didn't help much to prove my sanity (none of them had watched Gargoyles).

Since reading the play Othello has become my favorite of the Shakespearian Tragedies (though I admit I have to read several more) And the Love "Pentagram" has become a delightful flavoring to the show.

I say Pentagram because I do believe that Demona would have been caught up in the whole mess. Especially given that Iago likens so well to the Shakespearian version. If he's going to ruin Goliath (and Othello as well) Then "In for a penny, in for a pound" Demona would have to go too. And probably the whole clan (including Hudson) probably would have been at Odds with Goliath thanks to Iago's whispering.

Which leads me to my first question:

1. Did the incident between Othello, Desdemona, Iago and Goliath occur before or after Goliath became leader to the clan? I ask because it strikes me that if after, Iago would not only try to win Desdemona, but Leadership as well.

2. Since Demona collected pieces of the shattered Iago to create Coldstone, we know he was banish from the clan. So what punishment was set upon Iago for causing such a clash between rookery brothers.

3. For that matter, would anyone have truely realized what Iago was doing, that he was responsible for it?

4. In City of Stone's flashback, we see Demona almost warning Othello and Desdemona about the upcoming attack. In one way, these two were used so that it wouldn't be just random gargs...But given the idea that Demona would have gotten tied up in the whole love scandal, it would seem Demona wouldn't exactly like Desdemona (even if the whole thing proved false; she's got trouble forgiving people) So why, in a character sense would Demona have gone to these two?

Well, I'm sure I had more questions along this topic, but I can't think of them after all that typing, so I'll let you get on with the other questions.

"So will I turn her virtue into pitch; and out of her own goodness make a net that shall emesh them all." -Iago (my fav quote from the play)

John D (Jack's Dad) writes...

Greg,

I hope you remember me and my son. We were at 1999 Gathering (Jack was the little boy dressed as Goliath in the costume contest). Anyway, we cannot attend the Orlando Gathering this year (despite having airline tickets) as I must go to SE Asia for business. Anyway....some updates for you as well as a question or 2

1 -In Japan, Gargoyles memorabilia is quite popular. I have been in Japan quite a few times and Jack has brought some of his Gargoyle figures etc;. AS we interact with more kids, they cling to the show. Of course, translating this into Japanese is time consuming...some of the references and history is impossible for me to adequately translate. But here is the point. With Pokemon and Dragonball Z very much the norm, the kids were taken by the STORIES, not just random colors flying by the TV. The kids have been asking questions about the Clan, and I am trying my darndest to aid them.

2 - As part of my business, Disney is a client. In June, we were on holiday and met up with a mid-level person from the main digs. We had dinner with our family (2 kids on my side, 1 on his) and our spouses. Anyway, trying to be polite, he asked my kids their thoughts on cartoons and the like. Jack is strange in that he is more retro than anything else. He is into Tetsujin 28 (Gigantor in the US) and Gargoyles. So this gentleman was given the perspective of a 7 year old that likes Gargoyles. As a Dad, the proudest moment was when the guy asked...Why is/was Gargoyles so special. (Actually Jack's answer made me proud, not the question) Jack's answer was a mix of normal 7 year old ramblings ("because I was at the Gathering in 1999 and will (as noted above we now must change 2000) also in 2000", "because I have so many toys from the series"), but the kicker was when he said.....because I could use my imagination....this from a 7-year old!. He gets it....if only Disney would.

3 - As I mentioned to you in Dallas, Carl Johnson lives very close to my US residence. He burned a CD of numerous Gargoyle tunes............ - real cool. Upon our return, we were going to bring down to the Gathering a full set of the Gargoyle music from Carl, but now this must wait until 2001. I promised to give him some Gargoyle items for his studio from Jack's collection.....He has a huge photo of the Gargoyles now.

4- lastly.... when we met you in Dallas, my son was overwhelmed. He is a true Gargoyles fan and he was very happy to attend. You and Thom Adcox were very gracious to him when you had a few minutes to spare. No one was around, just Thom and yourself and you made the day of a little boy. For that I am grateful. The true measure of character is doing something (the right thing) when nobody else is around to see it!

I hope the series comes back soon. I have seen many postings from the ASK GREG archives and my feelings are I would not change any of the 66 episodes you created..... except maybe wish there were at least 66 more.

If there is any additional insight on how we can aid your efforts to get the series back, I/we are open to suggestions. We have written to numerous Disney executives to seeming no avail.

Best of luck to you in the future. Hope to see you in 2001 at LA Gathering.

John D (aka Jack's Dad)