Calvina Richardson writes...

I just want to say that Gargyles is one of my alltime favorite cartoons and I am 25. I just want to know is there
a time or place that I can view Gargoyles outside of toon disney since it is not available in my area.

Scott Iskow writes...

You asked me (warily) why I didn't like "Leader of the Pack" as much as other episodes. Oh, gee, where do I start? ;)

First off, let me say that I didn't hate it. In fact, I think I liked it originally. This episode, unfortunately, had a nasty habit of being constantly rerun to the point of nausea. I'd get sick of the *best* of episodes if it kept being shown over and over. It eventually came to a point where I'd turn off the TV as soon as I'd hear the music that began the ep, (on a good day, I'd get through the entire first act before shutting it off).

Another thing that didn't quite work for me was the animation. Some parts looked good. Other parts looked like a sloppy version of Darkwing Duck or Tiny Toons. Just how big were Lexington's eyes, anyhow?

I also didn't buy that Lexington could be so vengeful. Didn't seem in character.

It was a nice touch to have Brooklyn giving him the "don't be vengeful" lecture, but later episodes depict Brooklyn jumping the gun just like Lex does here. Similarly, (a la "Hunter's Moon 1"), Brooklyn endangers the clan by giving up the element of surprise. Awful reckless for someone who both recognizes the pitfalls of vengeance and is the second-in-command.

Also, it may just be that I didn't like this episode as much as others because it was a Pack episode. The Pack is the closest thing the gargs have to cliched villains. I liked "Thrill," "Brother's Keeper," and "Upgrade," but disliked others like "Leader," and "The Green." Maybe I just find the Pack inaccessible as characters.

Criticism aside, I'm still a big fan of the show as a whole. There are an extremely small number of episodes that I thought were mediocre, (looking forward to your ramble on "Monsters", BTW). An excellent show like "Gargoyles" can get away with a few lesser-quality eps.

"Gargoyles" wasn't perfect. It was only damned good.

Now, before I offend thee further, I shall depart most hastily.

<leaves smoke trail in his wake>

puck40 writes...

Puck40's top five favorite episode list. Yeah yeah, I'm sure no one out there cares. But I'm telling for those people who are bored and just want something to read.... yeah thats it. So I'll put a quote in for each one that I think makes the episode *the* episode. (mind you, this isn't necessarilly the order I like the episodes in)

Enter Macbeth.
Why? look at my post praising if if you want. But this quote should justify all that is good.
~~"Its not you I'm after, your just a pawn, I want your QUEEN" - "Queen? We have no Queen" - "No?! then what about... Demona" - "You know Demona?" - "KNOW HER?! (doesn't Macbeth laugh so cool right here?) I *named* her... if I captured you, the last of your kind, she will come to free you, its *her* I want." - (twisted Goliath Thailog like laughter, guess he does know how to laugh maniacally) "Then you are a FOOL! She is our enemy... she wouldn't lift a talon to save us."

The Edge.
This almost doesn't make it due to the fact I hate broadway and he got lots of action shots. But ah... Xanatos.
~~"I was a little worried that I might be getting soft. But I was able to stand up against Goliath, the greatest warrior alive. I'd say I've still got the edge."~~
If that line right there doesn't clench people into the episode... you all suck. His triumphs over losses. How his goal is always usually a small one that no one knows about, versus the fight that he fights. With freeing the pack and Coyote its all about Fox. Everything else is just subterfuge, yeah he kicks ass. And this episode was him, just wanting a self esteem boost. Something so trivial yet massively important! Spoon.

The Mirror.
Hey.... its Puck. its a really *fun* episode, and massively well written and acted besides the "cheesy" one liners. they were here... like the one that went something like "my strength has never depended on brute force, but on true friends" blah... or... "with Demona involved its more than (insert word lex or brook said here) its dangerous." But it was also the true *start* of the relationship with Elisa/Goliath. Very cool. which quote to choose from though... not any of the three bad ones... oh heck
~~"It was a ROMP indeed!" - "Spare me your gloating just go...." - "With out giving you something in return for all this merriment? Puck is many things, but never a poor guest!" - "Please.... Leave." - (an annoyed Puck right here) "You wanted to be your gargoyle self by night, and *not* stone by day? So be it."~~ (am sure everyone knows the spell by heart if your actually reading stuff in the Ask Greg.)

Vows.
The episode on my top five didn't use to be Vows, it was Avalon Part 2. Until I realized, when you go Time Travel wise... sure David Warners cool. But this episode so takes the cake. Again Xanatos is the "anti-hero", wouldn't say villian for this one. Whats his goal? To make sure he's rich, sure... but above all. He wants to impress his dad. Its such a childish thing, wanting to impress your dad, it always sticks with you. You don't want to be the dissapointment. So this was his alterior motive. And Petros... Clencher for this episode has to be this quote which by far gave me goosebumps first time I heard it.
~~"Whats this?" "A simple American penny, its not worth much now but in a thousand years.... Who knows? Its my wedding present to you, because its *all* you seem to care about."~~
yeah

And last but not least..

Future Tense.
Come on, you all knew it'd be here. I first saw it and was like... god... this is is so wrong but good!! and the end with Puck it was like. heheh, kickass! This episode was good for so many multiple reasons. The future depiction... the epic storyness. Xanatos killing Alexander, Hudson the first Hero of the war. That was SOOO cool. Lex the villian, Brooklyn punching out Goliath. Goliath showing he semi still had feelings for her by the end, hey... this was more the "old" her afterall, ne ne Greg? But as I said just above... I hated broadway. But I swear... this episode almost made me cry. The quote.
~~"Hold on Broadway... if you can last until sunrise you'll be healed." - "ohhh.... yes..... the sun. Can you see it Goliath... its.. beautiful...." - ".... goodbye.. my friend.."~~
(sniffle) that ones in the Avalon Archives.

Okay okay. the main reason I put this post up was to see if anyone else would put up there favorite top 5 or so episodes and "why" they were there favorite.

I'm gonna end this with one more quote since I've been doing them throughout... This one shows... that this show in general was more than a normal cartoon. It had depth.. continuity.. emotion... I give you the quote I think sums up that this series was truely unique.

Katherine: "Oh Magus... what have yae done?"
Magus: "Princess.. I-"
Katherine: "shhh... lay still now.. we'll get yae back tae th' palace an the-"
Magus: "n-no.... no katherine. i think i shall like to stay here.."
Goliath: "I owe you a great debt Magus"
Magus: "yooou... but, i cursed your clan"
Goliath: "You saved my children"
Magus: "hnn... oh I'm so tired... i think I would.... like to resst."
Katherine: "Yae *caenot" leave mae now."
Magus: "neveerr.. my princess.."
Katherine: "nooo Magus"
~and cue the music played over Katherine crying~
~on a note, most of these quotes are downloadable at http://avalon.gargoyles-fans.org~

puck40 writes...

Puck40 writes (in reference to Enter Macbeth):
Any case, in closing. This show has been and will always remain on my top 3 favorite list.

Greg responds...

Only the top three? :)

to which I respond. I meant episode!!!!

the show is by far my favorite American Cartoon(few have ever had continuity or intelligence, batman intelligence, x-men continuity, how many "combined" the two?). The storyline was beyond Excellent. The character development amazing. I mean, would've craved to see others more developed. Even Puck, who appeared in a mere 4 episodes, had a "fair" amount of screen time, evolved so far beyond a 2d character. He was shown how he was usually depicted..... mischievous, happy, fun. But he also had to him moments of annoyance at being forced to due stuff, a gift rejected, oh he'll get back at that. And less us not forget "Not Eternally!!!!" the panic in him there. I mean sweet! It measures up to Anime very easilly with animation at "moments" that could pass it in a heartbeat.

but meant episode. ^.^ hmmmm just for the hell of it I'll do another post in a sec

Kelly L Creighton/Kya White Sapphire writes...

just read yer x-men ramble. so i thought id ramble a little ^_^ (twice in one day!! AAK!)

re: jurassic park and the lost world
okay anyone who knows me knows i LOVE dinosaurs. i love these movies because they have dinosaurs. but anyone who WATCHES these movies with me will immediately know that ive seen them at least 30 times (no exxageration) and i continually spout off the mistakes. editing errors, creative liberties and just plain MISTAKES. theres a HUGE list of them. the spelled the embryo label "stegAsaurus" instead of "stegOsaurus." they have the car fall into a revine as the t-rex pushed it over where it had torn down the fence, but WAIT? how did it tear down the fence if there is a revine? for that matter, where did the ground go that the goat was standing on? one could say that in the shot of the car going over, there is a patch of high ground on the left, but the t-rex actually pushed the car over where it had stepped out originally, hence the torn fense (am i clear on this? i dont think i sound like im making sense...) there are TONS of mistakes. but i like dinosaurs. so lets say i like the dinosaurs in the movie, more than i like the movie. i wanted to ask tho, have you read the books? dont read the lost world. it was written for the movie, and was badly done. but the original JP- was FANTASTIC. at least in my opinion. i read it 8 times. even better was Robert Bakker's Raptor Red. HIGHLY reccomend that one.

re: x-men
rogue's hair goes blonde in the end because her character in the comic book had a patch of blonde (or white, depending on what comic u read) hair on top of her head. i duno if that was originally a tribute to any other character or not. (i hadnt read the original comic. the only exposure to x-men i had was the animated serise, which i only watched a few of.)

re: comics in general
i used to read a lot of wonder woman (not the original stuff, but from about 1990-1991) and WildC.A.T.S. i LOVED the cats. Zealot was my HERO. but then the comic went all soap-opera and i was like "this sux." they broke up the original cast. its like "we have something thats doing well. lets CHANGE EVERY ASPECT OF IT, SHALL WE?" (soung familiar?) i did buy a few of Zealot's comics (#1-3 i think) and Grifter's (#8-10). grifters kinda sucked, but i liked Zealot's.

are there movies that you DO like? im guessing not many. perhaps youre spoiled on shakespear (oh thats a shame ;P) of course it may be that youve created something so great, with such attention to detail, that anything without that minute attention just doesnt do anything for you. care to comment on why youre repulsed by so many movies?

ok enough ranting for one post...

Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...

Greg, thanks for the ramble about taking your kids to see "A Midsummer Night's Dream". Nice to see you passing Shakespeare on to the next generation. Though Erin and Ben are not the only ones you're teaching/taught it to.

I have yet to see "A Midsummer Night's Dream" (though I saw the movie) performed, but I saw "Titus" last summer, and as you know "A Winter's Tale" with Keith David recently. I loved both of them and look forward to seeing more. Though originally (before "Gargoyles"), I thought of Shakespeare the way your average teenager thinks of it... as boring old books.

Through "Gargoyles" I learned to love and appreciate the Immortal Bard and his works. I planned to tell you this at the Gathering, but at the last minute I could not make it. I'll see you again next year though.

Not just Shakespeare, you inspired me to pick up a book.

Todd Jensen writes...

Just read your new posts on the very early documents for the series, and wanted to thank you for them. The one that particularly intrigued me was the one where Goliath (or the Goliath-equivalent character) was an artificial creation of an evil wizard (the original version of the Archmage?), and the rest of the gargoyles were, in a sense, his "artificial creations". That was certainly a bit of a surprise, seeing that the early days of the series were taking the slant on gargoyles that you finally rejected, that in the first draft stage they actually were statues brought to life rather than members of a pre-human race that arose through natural means.

I was also amused to see the "lock, stock, and gargoyle" phrase in there because I recall that it made it into the finished product, when Elisa uses it in "The Thrill of the Hunt".

At any rate, thanks for that post.

Blaise writes...

THE MIRROR

When this ep first aired I made a mistake in programming my VCR so I missed the entire first Act. I was quite happy when I finally did get a chance to see it (I got a more thourough intro to Puck, saw how Demona stole the Mirror, what was so special about the Mirror, and what the heck Hudson had meant by describing Puck as one of Oberon's Children--I've become much better educated since then). Despite this, I wasn't too lost with the other two Acts. In fact, even missing the first Act, I found myself thouroughly enjoying this ep!
Added Note: I always wondered whether Elisa's frozen image in the Mirror was intentional (it seemed too blatently obvious to be a complete mistake). And I never even recognized Elisa when she was disguised.

Elisa definitly looks good as a gargoyle. Maybe it's the skin color, ears, or just the way she's now dressed (I always thought Puck assimilated her jacket into her skin--the colors are slightly similar), but at the time, I thought she looked even better than Demona (and would THAT have been a blow to D's ego). As if it weren't enough for Elisa to be able to kick her can when they're both in the same form (as gargoyle and as human, Elisa always wins).

Puck himself is an absolute riot. I wondered who the wonderfully dry and sarcastic fellow providing that little elf's voice was. Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be Brent Spiner (I had only ever seen him as Data). He has great lines, as you pointed out, and makes for some hilarious hijinks. One of my favorite moments though is when Bronx comes at him. "Let's improve your looks!" Bronx turns into a wolf-hound. "Should've tried the chihuaua" (sp?).
I (along with Entity) am actually glad that Puck didn't end up breaking the fourth wall. Sure, it might have been fun, but it really does seem as if it would have been distracting to me, and would have damaged that "realistic" edge to the characters. I think Frank and Dennis (or was it Bob?) made a good call on that one (not to put you down or anything).
The inclusion of Puck in the series was a pleasant surprise--such a fun and interesting character from Shakespeare put into my favorite show and balancing out the more solomn and serious Macbeth. The revelation that there was a whole race of creatures just like him whetted my appetite for more magic.
I got the whole "switched perspective" bit--quite easily I might say. And I did enjoy some of the scenes that resulted in. All these gargoyles going about like normal everyday humans. Running from our heroes when they are changed to humans, and trying to attack the Trio. One of my favorite moments in the whole series there:
Brooklyn--"Hey, we're the 'monsters' remember? So..."
The Trio give pathetic human imitation growls and try to look threatening.
Attacking gargoyles--"Oh." Run away, screaming.
All the while I'm ROTFLMHO. I also enjoyed Hudson's line to Goliath when all the garg-peoples run away--"Are you sure this is a good idea?" Just the line, the situation, and Ed Asner's reading off it make it hilarious.

Another reason I like this ep so much is the focus put on Goliath and Elisa. Unfortunately, you and everybody else have already repeated all their great exchanges, and little moments. (sigh) So, there really isn't much more that I can add, other than how frustrating and sad their final moment in the episode felt.

Demona as a human in the daytime (I understood the spell right off). I cannot express to you how excited I was about this development. For quite some time I was hoping one of the gargoyles (or a new one) would have the ability to transform to a human during the day (just for fun, on my part). Demona worked for me, both because it increased her danger, and was full of wonderful irony. Her horrified "NOOOOO" and smashing the Mirror were great character moments. Since I didn't know about the tiers and tentpoles system then, I always wondered why it took you guys until HIGH NOON to bring her "human-problem" back into the picture. I also loved how her first impression of the sun, and Hudson's last, wistful line in the ep, show gargoyles' feelings about the sun. I don't know why, I just do.

This was the first ep I watched twice and more while I had it on my tape (and the first one I all but forced my family to watch). Excellent.

Abigail Thorne writes...

Hey Greg,

While reading the posts, I've noticed how a bunch of people have complained about the World Tour. They thought it was too dull, went on too long, neglected the rest of the clan back in Manhattan, etc. I get their complaints, and I can understand their point of view.

But I for one loved The World Tour and the changes it brought to a show that I already loved. It expanded and enhanced the "Gargoyles" universe while moving along certain plotlines crucial to the story. Here's a few of the things I liked about it:

1) Angela. Love, Love, LOVE Angela!! The World Tour introduced her, and through her adventures I got to know her and love her as much as the rest of the clan. Her addition to the show was great--she brought out a side of Goliath's character I hadn't seen before, introduced the rest of the clan to her unique view of humans (she was raised by them, after all), and made a interesting development to the Goliath/Demona relationship. Plus Angela was smart, kind, and beautiful, a sensitive being and cunning warrior all wrapped together. I also liked her relationship with Elisa, who had a better mother-daughter relationship with Angela than Demona did (just one more reason for Demona to hate her). Great character, great move for the show.

2) The Third Race. I got to see more members of the Third Race!!! Odin, Banshee, Anubus...I loved them all, and the episode with Oberon and Titania was a gigundo bonus! Then there was the New Olympians, Loch Ness Monster, and other legendary beings who popped in. As a rule, I love mythology, magic, and fantasy stories. Greek mythology in particular has always held a place close to my heart. So tuning in each day and learning that the gods, monsters, and mystical beings from various cultures were real and had an influence on the ("Gargoyles") Universe was very, very cool for me.

3) New and Old Faces. We got the Pack, TWO Coyotes, Sevarius, Thailog, Demona, Macbeth, Xanatos, Renard, and others I'm probably forgetting. But we also got the new gargoyle clans and a host of other interesting new characters who would have played a larger role in the series had it continued. I loved how old mixed with new and created fresh stories and new possibilities. It kept me excited from day to day as I waited for the next installment--who would show up next, someone old or someone new? Very cool indeed.

4) Exotic places. The show left Manhattan and got to explore the world. The different locations offered new challenges in their own rights as the group had to cope with various climate and cultural differences. Makes me happy.

There are others, but this post will get too long, so I shall conclude:

Did I miss the Trio and Hudson? Sure. Was I disappointed that I never got to see how Xanatos would take advantage of Goliath's absense to make trouble for the others? You bet. But despite that, I loved the World Tour and the changes it brought to the series. I looked forward to the new adventure each day, and I wouldn't have you take back any of them.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Siren writes...

The Mirror

This is just about one of my favorite episodes, if not THE fav. I loved everything about it. The animation, the style, the music, the story, the characters. As you said, this was the point when Goliath and Elisa's relationship is officially established. For one brief night, it was a perfect world...besides Demona running amok. Elisa was the most beautiful gargoyle I had seen on the show. I loved her colors and her face. The animators kept her features, but brightened them. When she first sees Goliath after her transformation and when she goes to glide, but gets afraid. Both those moments, I loved with the Elisa garg. I have always loved and respected the show for it's seriousness, but I do also like the humor points now and then. Puck was a wonderful addition to the show. He messes with Demona so much. It was great. Because unlike Elisa, Goliath, etc. there is nothing she can really do. I love Puck's one liners. He's a wonderful trickster. And this show got me to go out and read Midsummer's Night Dream and see the movies on it. I never cared much about Shakespeare till I saw this show. When Macbeth first appeared, just weeks later, my English class had to read the play, and I had a leg up on it. I knew the story was different, but I had the general idea. My reaction to Demona being human...laughing hysterically. I love the irony. She was to become the very thing she hated. I feel Demona is too far on her high horse to come down and admit she did have a torch still for Goliath, but I didn't know it till then. I think by the time Hunter's Moon came around, the torch was long dead, but her hatred for Elisa grew even more..."How dare Goliath choose another over me...and how dare it be a HUMAN of all vial creatures upon this Earth!"-kinda thing. All in all, I did enjoy this ep. It was a big turning point

Todd Jensen writes...

Just read your ramble-review on "The Mirror". I enjoyed that, and decided to give my own comments now.

I always liked this one, although the first time that I saw it, seeing Elisa and the other humans turned into gargoyles unnerved me just a bit. I thought myself that the Goliath/Elisa scenes were nicely handled (although, the first time I saw this episode, I don't think that I actually picked up on what was going on between them, which is a bit on the embarrassing side). And I thought that the bits about the characters' memories getting switched when they were transformed were well-done as well. (Good thing for the New Yorkers that Puck thought to handle their memories accordingly; I don't even want to imagine the results of all those humans in New York suddenly realizing that they've been changed into bat-winged creatures).

Brooklyn obviously must have taken his own advice from his conversation with Lexington in "Enter Macbeth" about Shakespeare's plays, judging from his "Midsummer Night's Dream" comment. (And Demona obviously must not have read that one, or she'd have known from the start that employing Puck to get things done isn't the wisest course in the world, considering the mess that he made of the whole Lysander/Hermia/Demetrius/Helena business. I've sometimes wondered if he was indeed telling the truth to Oberon about "All those Athenians look alike to me!" :) Just goes to show that Xanatos made a sound decision in choosing a lifetime of service from Owen over a wish from Puck).

Oddly enough, I missed that bit about "You serve the human" until AFTER I found out from "The Gathering Part Two" that Owen and Puck were the same, but then I started suspecting that "the human" was a reference to Xanatos even before you confirmed it.

And I agree with you about "changeling" being misused; properly speaking, it should refer only to faerie children in the human world like your version of Morgan le Fay. (Then again, Shakespeare misused the word himself when he applied it to that little Indian prince, who was actually the human baby swapped for a changeling, so you're in good company).

And I've sometimes wondered about Elisa's red jacket and shoes disappearing and reappearing myself.

One thing that I sometimes wonder about this one: what was all that medieval weaponry doing in the shop window that Demona smashed?

And I thought that Puck's little gift to Demona was a great touch for the series. It makes her much more dangerous (they can't use the same strategy on her any more that Hudson used in "Long Way Till Morning"), and inflicts upon Demona the ultimate irony: she, who hates humans so much, now has to regularly become a human herself in the daytime.

Oh, and I was delighted with the inclusion of Puck and the revelation of faerie-folk out there in this story. One step of "Gargoyles" that I was pleased by.

Thanks for the ramble.

Todd Jensen writes...

This is more of a ramble/comment than a question, but I thought that I'd print it here.

I've noticed that every so often, you get questions about whether the Illuminati are evil (the last one of which you answered with "Not in their opinion"). I've occasionally thought over the Illuminati of "Gargoyles" myself (an intriguing organization, and I was always a little sorry that it never really got that much development in the series, and hope that if you can get the series relaunched, that could change), and have one or two thoughts on the issue.

It's obvious enough that the Illuminati can't be considered utter saints. They do have decidedly unscrupulous members in their ranks such as Xanatos and Mace Malone, they operate the Hotel Cabal, they receive money from organized crime through blackmail(as revealed by Matt in "Revelations"), they helped Castaway set up the Quarrymen. Duval himself has undergone some sort of physical cost from the Grail for the Society's actions, indicating that what the Illuminati do can't be right from the Holy Grail's perspective.

But at the same time, we don't know, as yet, the full story behind the Illuminati. We don't know how characteristic of them such methods as the Hotel Cabal or the Quarrymen are; for all that we know, such underhand schemes may represent only a small percentage of the Illuminati's activities, and the bulk of them might be of a different nature. We don't know what its present goals are; it's entirely possible that the Society still follows Duval's original goal for it of "making things right".

The picture of the Illuminati that we have from the series (primarily "Revelations", the only episode that deals much with the Illuminati's present-day activities) isn't all that favorable to it. On the other hand, if all that we knew of Goliath and his clan was that they were strange bat-winged creatures that only came out at night, were fierce warriors, and delivered a raid on Cyberbiotics, we could find it all too easy to view them as dangerous monsters. Is it possible that we may be judging the Illuminati the way that the frightened humans in New York in "Hunter's Moon" and "The Journey" judged the gargoyles? Maybe our gut reactions to them are the correct ones, but we don't know for certain as yet.

michael writes...

did you know in your clips did it come from some other episodes like the one where brooklyn is killed how did he get killed?

Aris Katsaris writes...

Lighthouse in the Sea of Time:

As with all eps I saw this one with Greek dubbing - but in this ep there was something both unique and interesting/funny... I got reminded of it when in the memo you described the problem with the language of the scroll...

The thing is that though the entire ep was (as normal) dubbed in Modern Greek, when Macbeth starts reading the scroll he switches into *Ancient* Greek. At that time I had thought the original had Macbeth reading in Middle or atleast Elizabethan English, or some other kind of archaic-sounding language, which the translators simply rendered as ancient Greek. Only later did I realise that it was solely the translator's doing, with no corresponding change of language in the original...

It was a very nice touch, I think, and praiseworthy - it atones (atleast in part) for a couple horrendous mistakes in the dubbing of other eps... :-) But ofcourse that doesn't mean there wasn't any problem with it. Ancient Greek is far closer to Modern Greek, than Celtic is to English; nonetheless it's far enough that the first time I got only a very general sense out of the words, that Merlin was describing his first impression of Arthur... :-)

Ambrosia writes...

THE MIRROR!
Yeah, this one is totally one of my favorites.
On Brooklyn's line about A Midsummer Night's Dream, you said, "I hope we sent a few people to the library with that line." As I've mentioned, I was storming the library the next day.
Elisa's reaction to being changed into a gargoyle kind of didn't work for me. Sure, everyone *else* thinks the guys are monsters, but she's supposed to know better. But when she sees the New Yorkers as humans... as they normally are... she goes, "Everyone's been turned into a... a human!" As if being the "other" is something horrible. You might say that their transformation is what she was disturbed about, but she was happy about Goliath's "transformation". It's as if she thought that if the clan were the same as everyone else, that that would make everything better.
BTW a couple times you've said "suspend belief" or something like that. Are you quoting S.T. Coleridge? Shouldn't it be suspension of DISbelief?
Oh, about Elisa's disappearing jacket... There's a part in Grief where the camera pans back and shows our heroes standing ready to fight and... Elisa's not wearing the jacket. Just her short-sleeved black shirt. In the next shot, the jacket's back. Anasatis (my best friend) and I have a running gag about that. Whenever something mysteriously disappears in any cartoon, movie or whatever, we say that it's made out of Elisa's jacket. Hehe. "Wasn't that guy just holding a briefcase?" "It must be made of Elisa's jacket."
New subject: I was hoping you'd see the bearded gargoyle lady this time. I'm surprised your kids didn't pick up on it. Kids don't miss anything. *shakes head* She's there, I'm telling you!!!! Right after Demona says, "Is it done?" and Puck sighs, "Yes." Okay, I'll drop it.
Romantic stuff: Goliath thought he was being so sweet, promising to always catch Elisa when she falls, only in the next minute to have to be caught by her. But it's sweet in reverse too.
It surprised me at the time for Broadway to be the one talking about finding love. But it seems perfect now.
The very end exchange with G and E always gets me. Goliath trying to talk things out and Elisa dodging the conversation. The wind was a nice effect.
Sigh. I love this ep. Well, thank you for reading!!
Wait, one more thing... your wife's name is Beth. Was *Derek* Maza named after anyone?

Entity writes...

Hi Greg,

A belated personal reaction to THE MIRROR. In the past, you've seemed curious as to how things came off to us. Did we get the implication here, or did we correctly interpret there. Well, here's something that really threw me initially. When Goliath describes the Third Race, he uses a lot of different nouns and adjectives. At first, I thought this new "Third Race" was going to be a contrived method of stuffing all other creatures of myth and fantasy into the series, in addition to the gargoyles, without having to give each one a unique background and history. In this way, you could bring in a unicorn, a minatour, an elf or an ogre, and you wouldn't have to justify them existing as individual species like the gargs, because they're conveniently blanket-labelled as the "Third Race." In short, I thought Goliath was describing a people more akin to the New Olympians, a collective, rather than a coherent species. Elisa's response was most responsible for cementing my conclusion, when she said, "Shapeshifters, elves, fairies, you mean they're real?" It sounds a lot like Elisa's interpretation of Goliath's speech was the same as mine.

As you could imagine, I felt quite betrayed and outraged. To forge such a unique, well-shaped universe and then just lazilly toss in everything else as if you said, "Well, on second thought..."

This wasn't the case, and the Third Race wound up being a wonderful addition to the series. But it took me a while to realize that. :)

Smelley writes...

Let me reiterate, you are a cool dude.
I too enjoyed the X-men movie. I thought most of your observations were pretty accurate, although I liked Summers, and disliked Storm.
I smiled at the inclusion of Gyrich and was glad it was there.
Personally, I really enjoyed seeing the opinions of people who weren't familliar with the franchise.

Smelley writes...

Comments on Lighthouse:

First of all, I thought this episode was irritatingly heavy-handed, but didn't mind because it was such a good message, and slick in it's presentation.

I'm afraid the opening sequence didn't come off nearly as well as you wanted it to.

I was very confused about Macbeth sealing the scrolls.

I liked Robbins, and was irritated that we didn't see more of him in later episodes.

But by far my biggest complaint regarding this episode was how Macbeth dismissed the scrolls as being worthless after realizing what they were. A learned man, especially one as cool as Macbeth, I would expect to value the lost journals of Merlin far more than Broadway.

Despite all my complaints, this was an enjoyable halfhour of television, and merely illustrates how high you and your team set the bar of excellence for yourself.

Oh, and I never made the Gilly--Gilgamesh connection. Neat.

You are cool dude, dude.

Cassandra writes...

Ramble on "The Mirror"

I've always had a thing about fae and I was bouncing up and down in my seat when you introduced them to the series. I also liked the fact that you used not only the "be careful what you wish for" but also "a fae is going to find the loophole if you leave it" and "if you piss a fae off they'll be sure to make you miserable". Demona should have done more research. But then she probably assumed that if the puny human Xanatos could control the Puck, she could too.

Moments I love: All of Puck's lines.

"Three races?"
"You know, Gargoyles, humans, and Oberon's Children."
"I thought everybody knew that."

Goliath's hand on his face moaning "No, no, no."

Broadway drumming his fingers on the floor after the Trio has crashed in the subway.

I also liked your observation in the first memo about guys being fundamentally stupid about romance. And the tender moment between Goliath and Elisa before Puck tears them apart works much better without dialouge.

I didn't realize the first time watching that Demona knew about the Owen/Puck and Xanatos connection. Looking back, the foreshadowing is hidden by Puck replying "Serving humans is fun. They have a sense of humor." It makes the situation they're refering to sound more like something Puck has done in the past, rather than a current situation.

Cassandra writes...

Ramble on "Lighthouse".

This is one of my all-time favorite episodes. The quote from the end is on the front page of my website. It sums up exactly how I feel about books and writing. It also shows the "magic" inherent in reading, a much better way to presuade people to learn how to read than telling them that they should. And Greg, I think you've gained that immortality.

I wish Robbins had come back as a character, he was great. And I loved that his dog was named Gilgamesh--even if she was girl.

The opening of the cave: I thought the harp was magic. Merlin was a magician, he could have owned magical artifacts. But the spell part of the scene worked for me, the energy version of an old man was definately seeing if these two fit the terms. The hestitation seemed more like an "oh wow" moment than a "stop and consider". I mean this is MERLIN's stuff. A way big deal.

I understood that Macbeth was reading what Merlin had written. Who were these people who didn't, the supposed target audience? (That's a dig at the age groups cartoons are "supposed" to be for). <G>

I agree with Erin that you didn't know what to make of Macbeth the first time watching this episode. But that just made him much more cool.

What happened to the lyre? A traveling exhibit of Merlin's stuff, complete with the translation of the Scrolls of Merlin (the ones by Merlin, not Robbins)? There was a lot of stuff in the cave.

Blaise writes...

LIGHTHOUSE IN THE SEA OF TIME

This is a good ep with a message that had the potential to be quite preachy. I'm glad you guys avoided that for the most part (I'll get to that later).
Yeah, Macbeth as the villain was pretty much tipped off at the beginning. It indeed would have been better if we had suspected Xanatos as the villain all through Act I. At least we got some dramatic irony out of the situation.
Anyway, Macbeth is always a good villain--and you just can't beat his first appearance here. The "Macbeth Theme" comes up in the background (and I love it, too), the lightening flashes, and Macbeth walks towards the screen. You'd have to go a long way to beat that. And I did associate that "Electricity Gun" (as I called it) with Macbeth (he and his flunkies were the only one's who used it).
Actually, Banquo and Fleance were pretty good too, as far as henchmen go. They had their own personalities and B.J. Ward and Frank Welker did good work with their voices. And yes, I have to smile when B.J. Ward talks to herself in the ep.

Animation-wise, I don't suppose it was too bad. *I* thought Elisa looked cute with the red cap. Though how she managed to yank it off without pulling out her hair (since she put it through the hole in the back) is beyond me.
I noticed that Goliath visited the Eyrie building and confronted Owen again (only this time with Brooklyn and Lex in tow), but it works for me.

Robbins...a great addition. Paul Winfield (that is his name, right?) did a great job on his voice (you were going to shoot for Ray Charles?), and his lines were very well written. I find his exchange with Hudson about the phonebook and his final monologue to be some of the best lines in the series.

The opening prologue with the archeologists (after looking at the credits for so long, I knew they were named after your writers and staff) serves it's purpose. The lyre's role is fairly easily deduced, and the full import of the spell on the chest becomes apparent in later viewings. But I agree it would have played better as you described it.
The Scrolls themselves presented a wonderful "Left-turn in the last Act" so to speak. I was quite surprised myself that they turned out to be a diary, and I have to agree that Merlin's Journal would indeed be priceless. I was pleased at the revelation.
I did think along with everyone else that Macbeth had sealed the Scrolls himself. Maybe knowing so little about Macbeth would make us latch onto anything that could even be remotely considered a clue. In later viewings I understood it, though.

On the moral itself...like I said, I felt it was very well done. I didn't find Goliath's mentioning the "library downstairs [being] full of books about [Merlin]" to sound like those Public Service announcements at all. Maybe it's because I don't pay any attention to them or because it just sounded like something Goliath would say (I mean, he loves reading). And I love how Hudson's illiteracy is revealed and handled. I felt it was quite moving. And Macbeth's speech about Arthur was good too. However, Broadway's growth is where I enter into a more grey area. I felt it worked quite well for the most part, especially his line "When your life is this exciting, who needs books?". However, his last speech...I suppose it isn't so bad, but it did seem a little thick with his expression "They take you there". It is true, and probably the best thing to say, but I just can't get into it. Maybe I'm just too used to reading to be able to fully empathize with Broadway's sense of wonderment.

Still, an ep I enjoy wathing. I just wonder how Broadway was able to rip open the hull of the harrier without any noise.

Todd Jensen writes...

Just read your ramble on "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", and here are my thoughts on that episode.

It will come as no surprise to those who know me well that this is one of my favorite episodes in "Gargoyles", and I don't even need to say why this is. :) In fact, one of the things that I really like about it is the way that it handled Merlin and the Arthurian legend. As I've mentioned before, lots of animated series do an Arthurian episode at some point, and particularly do so by including Merlin somewhere in it. But "Gargoyles" handled Merlin as more than just "some stupid magician", to quote Broadway. It focused on him, not as just a medieval wizard, but as King Arthur's mentor figure who guided him in the creation of Camelot. This particularly made itself plain not just in Macbeth's speech, but even in the fact that the precise part of the Scrolls that we hear Macbeth read deals with Merlin first meeting the young Arthur, presumably to take him on as his pupil. (And, given that this episode did include some teaching functions in the process, as in teaching Hudson and Broadway that reading is a worthwhile pursuit, I found that appropriate).

Indeed, that was precisely what I liked about "Gargoyles" handling Arthurian legend (and legends in general); it did so in a very intelligent and literate fashion, getting into "What is the significance of this story for us? Why does it still endure in our hearts after all these years?" This, combined with your comments here on Arthur and Co., make me certainly hope that you can either get to do "Pendragon" some day, or if Disney never agrees to that, create some other Arthurian series (as you've mentioned having hopes of doing).

One amusing side-note about this episode: I'd earlier read an article about what was in store for Season Two of "Gargoyles" in a sci-fi magazine that mentioned that time travel would be a part of the season. So when I saw the title, I got the notion from the "Time" part of it that this would be the episode involving it, and that the Scrolls of Merlin would be the means for it. Turns out that I was wrong and that that element wouldn't show up until "Vows" - but I wasn't disappointed.

(I might add that I was certainly not disappointed by the revelation of the Scrolls' true nature, unlike Macbeth - if anything, that made them more exciting to me. An eyewitness account of Arthur's times, written by Merlin himself! Now that's a real treasure! Hudson and Broadway were right to urge Goliath not to burn the Scrolls! And I certainly can't help but imagine the boon that they'd be to Arthurian scholarship).

Macbeth's speech on Arthur and Merlin was not only a very beautiful one, but also helped illustrate his character a bit more and the fact that he had heroic qualities under his villain role. After all, he stressed with such admiration Arthur's ruling "with justice and compassion", something that only a man with some nobility in him could find a positive interest in. Even though he engaged in theft and planning to use Broadway for a guinea-pig, he still came across as not so bad a chap in some ways.

I agree with you that Goliath's bit about "books on Merlin in the library" does have something of a public service announcement, although I don't mind that. (I was initially puzzled as to what books on a legendary wizard would be doing in a police station, until I later on learned that the library that Goliath was talking about was next door to the station rather than part of it). I liked Mary Stewart's "The Crystal Cave" myself, and thought it a bit of a pity that you couldn't have Goliath cite it, although I can understand why it didn't get in. (Interestingly enough, the book was first published in 1970, so it would be having its 25th anniversary the same year that "Lighthouse" first aired).

And I also appreciate the differing angles of Hudson and Broadway's illiteracy; Broadway illiterate and not seeing why that should be so bad a thing, while Hudson is ashamed of his illiteracy and hides it. That was another lovely touch, IMHO.

Ambrosia writes...

Response to A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time
This is one of the few episodes I managed to record. I envy those who have the entire series, but I watch the ones I do have over breakfast all the time. (Have you ever noticed how there's never anything on in the morning?) It seemed to me that Lighthouse and Deadly Force played most often when Gargoyles was in reruns. Maybe that's my imagination, but it seems I groaned whenever this ep was on. Initially, I think the animation was a turn off for me. But seeing it many, many times during my gargoyles breakfasts made me realize the value and indeed, quality of this ep and now, ironically, it's one of my very favorites.
I liked how you dealt with the different reasons Broadway and Hudson had for not learning to read and how they paralleled the reasons given by teenagers and adults, respectively. Also, I thought it was responsible of you to refrain from mudslinging TV and other visual media. Like you've said before, a lot of good can come from other mediums, but shouldn't take the place of reading. Many people get preoccupied with bashing TV, saying it's the root of the evil in our kids today, etc. There is a lot of junk around, but there's a lot that isn't as well. Saying that TV is evil and glorifying reading doesn't accomplish much. A good balance between the two (and others) is what people should go for.
Jeffrey Robbins: I love this guy! I wish he were real so I could talk with him. Of course, the whole behind-the-scenes revelation that he was originally going to be a famous author and Arthurian expert makes me all the more thankful that he wasn't. Many times, the characters of shows are the BEST at something or the WORLD'S GREATEST this or that. It's important to remember that average people, doing something special like writing, can be interesting too. It gives kids a different place to look for heroes other than athletes and musicians.
Elisa: From Guinevere to a baseball cap? Care to elaborate? Since we've all only seen the episode that made it to the screen (of course) we have no idea why you were going to have Elisa dress like Guinevere. But hey, better that than the hat. It was totally impractical for the windy ship (even now, I keep expecting it to blow off in the wind) and it looked ridiculous on her. It's silly, but I smile when she throws it down in the alley in frustration. The hat's dead.
Broadway: I can't think of anyone who has matured as widely as Broadway. First he learns the terribly hard way to respect guns, and now he's back being ignorant again (about literacy this time), but he LEARNS. I love how he (Bill) whispers "But you describe it like you were there..." He says something similar to this in another episode. I can't remember the name or what happened in the rest of it, but Elisa helps him with a word he's struggling with without her having looked at the magazine and he pipes up, "Were you there?" But anyway, he's beginning to understand the importance of reading. By the time he's chained up in MacBeth's house, he's had time to think about it and desperately stops Goliath from endangering the scrolls (which Goliath had done in an attempt to save *Broadway*). I really thought his line was cheesy, though. "When you read them, they take you there..." Maybe not the line so much, but how he looked off into space and his voice got all mystical and mysterious... ah well, beautiful though.
Thank you so much for this episode and for taking the time to share your thoughts with us!

Todd Jensen writes...

This is a sort of rambling about gargoyles in general which I finally remembered to submit.

One thing that I have to hand to "Gargoyles" is that it really did change the way I viewed gargoyles. Before the series came out and I started watching it, I'd always taken it for granted, whenever I thought of "living gargoyles" in a fantasy context, to imagine them as the "bad guys", given that almost every fantasy book, game, television program, or what-not out there portrayed living gargoyles as evil. (Particularly fantasy role-playing games). I wasn't even aware of gargoyles being placed on medieval cathedrals and castles to protect them from evil.

Then I watched the series, and was actually presented with the notion of "gargoyles as 'good guys'". I became interested enough in real-world gargoyles, as a result of the series, to read up on them and discover that indeed, their original function was as protectors. And since then, I've found my own attitude towards gargoyles to be more positive - in particular, I like looking out for architectural gargoyles wherever I can. (I've actually come across metal ones as a part of old-fashioned street lamps in my neighborhood). It's become almost hard for me to realize that I used to see gargoyles as I did before the series came out. (At the same time, though, those memories of how I used to view gargoyles make it all the more understandable for me why so many humans in the Gargoyles Universe would hate and fear gargoyles - which is, in a sense, an acknowledgement on the series' part of the modern-day angle on gargoyles, although the gargs are based ultimately more on the original medieval concept of them).

Just thought that you might find these comments interesting.

Todd Jensen writes...

This is a sort of addendum to my "Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" response, since there were a couple of things in it that I'd meant to say but forgot about at the time.

One little touch that I always liked in this one was the brief scenelets with Bronx - first, when Lexington is yanking a magazine out from underneath him with great difficulty, and then when Hudson calls him, and Bronx jumps up, bounds over to Hudson's armchair, and lies down beside it again.

I don't recall having any problems over misinterpreting the "sealed by my own hand" part, but it is interesting to note that the closed captioning that I saw on my taped copy put Macbeth reading the Scrolls' inscription within quotation marks, indicating that they did recognize that he was reading the writing and that it was Merlin who'd sealed the Scrolls. (I just thought that I'd cite a case where the folks in charge of the closed captioning correctly interpreted something).

I was a bit surprised by your account that the lyre's music was caused by the wind blowing through it; I'd always assumed that it was playing by itself through some sort of magic (particularly given the way that it was shimmering). Thanks for clearing up the account of the visit to Merlin's cave.

(And, regarding Merlin's inscription on the chest, one reflection that I had about it was that the Scrolls truly would be valuable only to the "seeker after knowledge" and not to the "destroyer", as Macbeth found out at the end when he actually read them).

Charles writes...

just reading your lighthouse ramble

I was myself surprsied, and continue to be, at the same moment your daughter was, being the scene where Macbeth says he will test Merlin's magic on Broadway. It felt out of character. Even disregarding what we were to later know of him, up to this point he doesn't seem to be the same type of ruthless villain as Demona or Xanatos. He has already gained that grey shading of character and it is hard to get a handle on his exact motives, but it felt to me he was already established to be very interested in concepts of honor and wouldn't stoop to such actions as using a sentient being as a lab rat, especially after he'd given his word. It's not honorable.

After later episodes and more background is given on him, his behavior in this episode just feels even more out of character. It becomes established that he is a man of deep honor, and while he doesn't act altruistically, like the gargoyles, he doesn't act nefariously either. He acts in his own best interests, but within limits. His saying he'd test Merlin's magic on Broadway is teh equivalent of Xanatos about to test the Cauldron of Life on Hudson, but this just doesn't feel right in my understanding of Macbeth. Such an action is a depth I don't see him willing to take, no matter what his ends are.

I'm also reading your memo and getting uncomfortable about the term "villain" being used in regards to Macbeth as a description and as an explanation for his motives and actions in this episode. I guess it was always my own personal taste and regard for the character that I never once saw him in that light; I always saw him as distinguishly neutral.

I can understand when you say this type of confusion is exactly what you wanted, but sometimes I don't see it as much a story type of confusion, where we just don't know him yet and are trying to figure this guy out, but more as a consistency confusion, where his character in other places is inconsistent with his character here.

Just a few of my ideas. And I love being able to get this much discussion and difference of opinion out of a t.v. show.
Here's hoping to seeing you in Orlando.
8-)

Entity writes...

Hi Greg,

As I read the latest set of responses, I became inspired to share something. My grandmother was over one evening for dinner, and I was transfering Awakening 1-5 from one tape to another. Thus, it was playing downstairs. Well, my grandma sat down there for about the whole evening, talking with my dad and such. Now, some info on my grandma (since it's painfully obvious where this is heading): She's almost 80. It would be an understatement to call her a devout Catholic. She thought "Sister Act" was unwholesome. So, I was scared the whole evening that she'd eventually get to asking what show was playing. Instead, she came upstairs at the end of the evening commenting, in that 'stamp of approval' kind of way, that "that show" was really good. I mean, she honestly seemed damned taken with it.

Guardian writes...

In an earlier post, you said Gargoyles airs after 10 pm. However in my time zone it airs at 9:00 pm so your argument about the time it aired was invalid.

Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...

Not a question, but I thought you might appreciate an anecdote: The JSU at Columbia University sponsers a visit by a professional storyteller once a year. The first year the guest speaker was Penina Shram and she spent some time focused on trickster myths from around the world. She was taken aback by the small but vocal group in front that ~happened~ to know of every one she mentioned. Gargoyles was in the middle of the World tour at the time.

Cassandra writes...

Rambling about Legion.

Between Gargoyles and Highlander, the Silver Cup is on my list of places to see if I ever get to New York.

The backstory between Goliath, Othello, Desdemona and Iago was clear enough for the purposes of the episode. But vague enough to warrent an episode or a sub-plot in "Dark Ages." Iago strikes me as a bit like Xanatos, suave and charming when you first meet him but then you find out what he's really up to.

I realized that more than one person had to be inside Coldstone when he started going bonkers at Ellis Island. Though I believe my initial reaction was "he's possessed!", coming from the Bibical quote I believe. Much more cool to actually make the multiple personalties a part of Coldstone's creation. I didn't realize how much damage the computer virus was doing until I read your memo. So I guess sorcery is the reason Iago's soul/personality is still around in High Noon?

I like the idea that "subconsciously Demona knows her man." Her attacks on Elisa are tinged with so much jealousy, it's surprising her eyes don't light up green instead of red. <G>

Mike J. writes...

First a question, then a brief ramble...

Question: To your knowledge, were there ever any Rocky Horror Show jokes at Tim Currey's expense while he was recording Dr. Servarius? You know, him doing the whole mad scientist bit and all.

Ramble: I don't post here often, but I read what's here all the time. I hope the appearance of some treatise sized responces to your episode rambles illustrates to you how successful Gargoyles really was. Despite lackluster ratings, the people you reached, you reached deeply. Speaking as a writer myself, I think that's about the best we can hope to do.

Joel Hodgeson (creator of Mystery Science Theater 3000) was once asked if he ever worried that people wouldn't get some of the more obscure jokes/references he put in the show. He answered that it didn't worry him because the RIGHT people would get it. I think that sums it up nicely.

Damien writes...

I've just recently gotten into Gargoyles and love it so far, especially Demona. I have to say that I really feel sorry for the way she's been treated by humans in the past and it explains her behaviour when she meets Goliath again.
I loved the animation, even 'Enter Macbeth' wasn't that bad (the storyline compensates for the animation I suppose).
I'd have to say that the overall concept (good monsters fighting evil) was aimed at kids. But the individul
episodes, plots and storylines (including Shakespeare characters and plays) attracted an older audience.
I love the idea of the interspecies romance between Elisa and Goliath. It brings the two races together. This also probably attracted an older audience. If gargoyles was ever revived on television again, would you consider putting it on a channel that more adults watched? It might help the ratings of the show.
I was disappointed to learn that the I was watching re-runs of the show.
I can't wait to see the movie and I'm sure it will encourage Disney to revive the show again.

Abigail Thorne writes...

A few days ago I took out my store-bought copy of "Gargoyles, The Movie," which is the first five episodes without commercials. I was trying to remember why I hadn't watched it in a while. That question was immediately answered once I started watching it.

There are certain details in the movie--background music, sound effects, scene editing--that are either off or just plain wrong. The sound of Goliath crushing Elisa's gun, the arrows flying through the air during the Viking battle, the metallic sounds of the Steel Clan opening their wings and firing their cannons--they are all different, and they drive me crazy!! Then there's the background music, which either starts too late or is completely wrong for that particular scene. But the most excrutiatingly obnoxious error of all is the sound of the gargoyles gliding--it's this high-pitched swooping noise, like a mechanical glider, or something, I don't know what exactly, but it's NOT RIGHT!! {Loud scream of frustration!!!!!!!}

I know, I know, these are fussy nitpicks, but the little details really do effect the quality of the program. I'm a diehard Gargoyles fan who's seen these episodes dozens of times, so hearing a difference makes me cringe. So yeah, what's the point of this post? To ramble, to complain, and to ask if anyone else (yourself included) had noticed and were annoyed by the changes made in "Gargoyles, The Movie."

Thanks for letting me rant. And vent. I feel better now.

Tana writes...

Dear Greg,

Just read your Legion ramble...and I have to say this:

At the time when I first saw that Episode, I knew that Iago was trying to indicate that Goliath was betraying Othello with Desdemona, but I didn't understand why the credits listed the characters with such names. Boy was I naive.

A couple years later I was taking a Shakespeare class and read Othello. Can you imagine, about Act 2 somewhere we're reading it outloud and all of a sudden I say outloud: OH I GET IT. My friends thought I was insane. I had to give a quick explination for my outburst, which didn't help much to prove my sanity (none of them had watched Gargoyles).

Since reading the play Othello has become my favorite of the Shakespearian Tragedies (though I admit I have to read several more) And the Love "Pentagram" has become a delightful flavoring to the show.

I say Pentagram because I do believe that Demona would have been caught up in the whole mess. Especially given that Iago likens so well to the Shakespearian version. If he's going to ruin Goliath (and Othello as well) Then "In for a penny, in for a pound" Demona would have to go too. And probably the whole clan (including Hudson) probably would have been at Odds with Goliath thanks to Iago's whispering.

Which leads me to my first question:

1. Did the incident between Othello, Desdemona, Iago and Goliath occur before or after Goliath became leader to the clan? I ask because it strikes me that if after, Iago would not only try to win Desdemona, but Leadership as well.

2. Since Demona collected pieces of the shattered Iago to create Coldstone, we know he was banish from the clan. So what punishment was set upon Iago for causing such a clash between rookery brothers.

3. For that matter, would anyone have truely realized what Iago was doing, that he was responsible for it?

4. In City of Stone's flashback, we see Demona almost warning Othello and Desdemona about the upcoming attack. In one way, these two were used so that it wouldn't be just random gargs...But given the idea that Demona would have gotten tied up in the whole love scandal, it would seem Demona wouldn't exactly like Desdemona (even if the whole thing proved false; she's got trouble forgiving people) So why, in a character sense would Demona have gone to these two?

Well, I'm sure I had more questions along this topic, but I can't think of them after all that typing, so I'll let you get on with the other questions.

"So will I turn her virtue into pitch; and out of her own goodness make a net that shall emesh them all." -Iago (my fav quote from the play)

John D (Jack's Dad) writes...

Greg,

I hope you remember me and my son. We were at 1999 Gathering (Jack was the little boy dressed as Goliath in the costume contest). Anyway, we cannot attend the Orlando Gathering this year (despite having airline tickets) as I must go to SE Asia for business. Anyway....some updates for you as well as a question or 2

1 -In Japan, Gargoyles memorabilia is quite popular. I have been in Japan quite a few times and Jack has brought some of his Gargoyle figures etc;. AS we interact with more kids, they cling to the show. Of course, translating this into Japanese is time consuming...some of the references and history is impossible for me to adequately translate. But here is the point. With Pokemon and Dragonball Z very much the norm, the kids were taken by the STORIES, not just random colors flying by the TV. The kids have been asking questions about the Clan, and I am trying my darndest to aid them.

2 - As part of my business, Disney is a client. In June, we were on holiday and met up with a mid-level person from the main digs. We had dinner with our family (2 kids on my side, 1 on his) and our spouses. Anyway, trying to be polite, he asked my kids their thoughts on cartoons and the like. Jack is strange in that he is more retro than anything else. He is into Tetsujin 28 (Gigantor in the US) and Gargoyles. So this gentleman was given the perspective of a 7 year old that likes Gargoyles. As a Dad, the proudest moment was when the guy asked...Why is/was Gargoyles so special. (Actually Jack's answer made me proud, not the question) Jack's answer was a mix of normal 7 year old ramblings ("because I was at the Gathering in 1999 and will (as noted above we now must change 2000) also in 2000", "because I have so many toys from the series"), but the kicker was when he said.....because I could use my imagination....this from a 7-year old!. He gets it....if only Disney would.

3 - As I mentioned to you in Dallas, Carl Johnson lives very close to my US residence. He burned a CD of numerous Gargoyle tunes............ - real cool. Upon our return, we were going to bring down to the Gathering a full set of the Gargoyle music from Carl, but now this must wait until 2001. I promised to give him some Gargoyle items for his studio from Jack's collection.....He has a huge photo of the Gargoyles now.

4- lastly.... when we met you in Dallas, my son was overwhelmed. He is a true Gargoyles fan and he was very happy to attend. You and Thom Adcox were very gracious to him when you had a few minutes to spare. No one was around, just Thom and yourself and you made the day of a little boy. For that I am grateful. The true measure of character is doing something (the right thing) when nobody else is around to see it!

I hope the series comes back soon. I have seen many postings from the ASK GREG archives and my feelings are I would not change any of the 66 episodes you created..... except maybe wish there were at least 66 more.

If there is any additional insight on how we can aid your efforts to get the series back, I/we are open to suggestions. We have written to numerous Disney executives to seeming no avail.

Best of luck to you in the future. Hope to see you in 2001 at LA Gathering.

John D (aka Jack's Dad)

Blaise writes...

LEGION

At the time I first saw this ep, I did not know that any play such as "Othello" existed (stupid, uncultured me, I know). I always wondered how you guys chose the two names you did in the credits. Later, after I discovered the fandom on the 'Net, I learned that the names came from the play, and I eventually picked up a (edited-Signet) copy, and bettered myself. The character of Iago utterly fascinated me in it, for his sheer malice and his ability to dupe people so thouroghly. But on with the show...

I remember finding myself quite confused by Coldstone's personality shifts. When Desdemona and Iago showed up in his eye, I thought he was remembering previous conversations. Then (being the dense person I am), I finally got the situation in Act 3 when Desdemona pretty much spells it all out (even then, the Xanatos Program's part in the drama for me took a back seat to the interplay of the souls. It was in later viewings that I fully realized it's own influence).
One thing I noticed from your outline was that Iago had been briefed on his situation by the Xanatos Program. Unfortunately, I didn't see too much of that in the finished product. That they wanted Othello to go after Goliath was apparent, and then they merged, but I hadn't realised that they had been in cahoots before Goliath even entered Cyberspace.
BTW: That is a very cool scene where Iago and Program X merge. I just wonder what exactly that accomplished. Did it make Iago that much more powerful in Coldstone's mind?
And I also love the annoyance on Desdemona's face when Goliath hugs her--it's perfect.
On the subject of animation, the two scenes you mentioned--Coldstone/Othello attacking Goliath, and Goliath getting hit with the laser--didn't bother me so much. Othello's attack on Goliath would have indeed worked better had G been in shadow, but even the way it is, Othello strikes me as very on-edge at that moment, and may have been more ready to attack first than look at his visitor. As for the laser, once again I rationalize--the laser has variable power settings, and Iago, though he may know how to work the laser hadn't taken the time to see what power level it was on. It works for me.
My gripes with animation come on a different scene. When Lex, G, and CS are flying to the Clock Tower, and Lex talks to G, the image gets flipped. Not only do the characters switch positions on-screen, but Coldstone's robotic/cannon arm has suddenly become his left. Also, I've always preferred Coldstone's eye to be black with the red iris (as opposed to the white with the red pupil here).

Once again, my density shines through with RECAP. It wasn't until the second viewing that I noticed the Scarab logo (THANK YOU for telling us why that was the logo of Xanatos' robotics stuff). I think I may have looked away from the screen then. But the tag is still pretty good. This ep, and the two eps preceeding it, are what I like to call "Xanatos' Winning Streak." True, he may not have had COMPLETE victories, but he seemed to get more than he lost (or at least seemed to feel that way).
Matt handling RECAP made sense to me, and the "six months of manuals" line seemed like a nice touch (anyone handling high-priced equipment would have to be at least that knowledgable of it). I also love his reaction when he finally tracks down the visor and finds a rat instead of a creature (oooh, he's gonna get some razzin' back at work...).

Good ep, all around. Just one final note. Clancy Brown's character in "Highlander" is called "the Kurgan"--not "Kragen." Just thought you should know.

Todd Jensen writes...

Just read your ramble on "Legion" this morning, and my comments on it.

The thing that probably most excited and delighted me about this episode was the bit in the ending credits which named the two new gargoyles introduced in this story as "Desdemona" and "Iago". I wasn't quite certain if I actually had seen those names in the ending credits, and so I was pleased when I later on discovered Gargoyle sites on the Internet and was able to get that information confirmed. But I was pleased by the Shakespearean reference there, and saw at once the appropriateness of it.

("Iago" really does look like a gargoylized version of the way that his namesake usually gets depicted in Shakespearean art - lean, saturnine visage - although I should add that the most convincing interpretation of Iago that I've yet seen in a Shakespearean performance was by Frank Finlay when he did the character in the Laurence Olivier "Othello". Finlay's Iago, while still definitely villainous, *looked* like a bluff and honest soldier, which, to me, made his ability to dupe Othello far more convincing. It bothered me to have to imagine Othello as stupid enough to get taken in by somebody who looked as if he was about ready to sprout horns and cloven hooves any moment).

"Legion" strikes me as a story that one can better understand when you're seeing it a second time and know that there are two other gargoyles stuck inside Coldstone. The first time that I saw the initial shift from Othello in control of Coldstone to Desdemona in control of Coldstone, in the clock tower, I thought that the computer virus had simply caused some sort of short-term memory loss. When I later on saw it again, however, I understood what was really going on here, and found it very effective.

The Biblical background for "Legion" - in a couple of the Gospels, Jesus heals a man with insanity, which is treated in the story as demonic possession. Jesus asks the demon for its name and it replies, "I am Legion, for we are many." (This is the occasion where when Jesus casts out the demons, they immediately flee into a herd of swine nearby which immediately drown themselves).

Incidentally, I've sometimes found it a bit of a pity that we never saw a story where Xanatos would be putting that virus to use, which I was expecting him to do at some point in the future. Of course, if "Gargoyles" ever gets revived, maybe we will.

Jay P. writes...

hello

i just whanted to take the time to say thank for all your eforts in make Gargoules. And allso taking the time to anser all our questions. Allso i love your rambles about the episodes. i can`t what to read the next ones.

i hope you and you famally have great lives.

Razorclaw writes...

Comments on Metamorphosis:

What an episode! This rank on my favorites! The whole idea of having Sevarius looking different at the beginnig and at the end confused me. I didn't realized until "The Cage". Of course, I understood eveything on the reruns.

And yes I got fooled by the Sevarius's fake death, but I don't watch Gargoyles to try to guess what will happen, but to be suprised and impress. Of course that's why I've put high hopes on TGC some years back and it hurted a lot when I saw the results.

A final word, there's not always happy endings, but they make realistic and original twists. In those cases I say: "I can't wait to see the next episode where they resolve that!"

Puck<40> writes...

la la la... bored. going to comment on "Enter Macbeth".
what can I say? badass. I saw the show from day one. I was surprised by every turn of events. Elisa still having crutches made me think.... wow. show has continuity. impressive. Would Goliath lose the castle? I didn't think he would. It wouldn't follow the typical "villian of the week" shows. Fooled again I spose... Xanatos not caring about the Gargs... just happy to be home. And you can tell he was impressed with Macbeth. Of course... he never saw Macbeth in his own castle. That would've completely stunned him. Shot for shot. He went shot for shot with Goliath. I was just watching like. "oh my god, he's not just fancy gadgets man". It was here that I thought he was *the* Macbeth. Just maybe.. a possible sure he might be before. But to go blow for blow like that. Wow.

Loved Brooklyns "ow *bzstz* ow *bzstz*". Bronx running through the streets and Goliath diving down to get get him. That would've scared the hell out of me if I was in one of those cars.

I didn't like something though..... Macbeths way of weilding the sword. He seemed to me like he should've been more talented than to do an overhead charge. I mean the reflection in the sword spoke BADASS! He's gonna get some! And then... blah. But the drop down from the trench was amazingly cool.

And one other thing... Owen. I always loved him as a character. He took Hudson down! Its here you know he's definitely got more to him. Outnumbered, I saw why he drew the gun, I don't think he would've ever fired. It seemed to me like how one man can hold back a mob with one bullet and one gun. Thats why I think he drew. Of course Elisa had to go and wreck it. =( I think I routed for the villians in this show more than the heroes. I *wanted* Macbeth to win.

Any case, in closing. This show has been and will always remain on my top 3 favorite list.

Siren writes...

No questions, just a worshipping moment...
I have said this before, long ago, but the more I watch tv nowadays, the more I feel I need to thank you for such a wonderful show that actually had a point to being made, besides mindless entertainment. It's a shame where tv has gone. Most shows for kids teach nothing. Especially Nickelodeon and the new Cartoon Network crap they keep shelling out. I believe it is the parent who needs to set examples, but unfortunatly, majority of these kids role models and such are not their parents, but bumbling idiots from tv. So with all the tv kids do watch, they should have some message in them. Gargoyles had that. As does shoes like X-Men, Spiderman, and Batman. They aren't always right on the surface for all to see, you have to dig a little deeper. In just one of your episodes you covered racisim, family values, violence, etc. It was just great! When I use to babysit, I had this one boy who loved guns, only 6 at the time. So I brought Deadly Force. What shock he was in when he saw Elisa near death. Majority of cartoon shows don't go that deep. Unfortunatly it wasn't enough to make him stop loving gun and he still thinks he's a big shot cop 4 years later, but at least for that one moment, he was concerned about guns. I love the whole racisim deal in there as well. The Hunters/Quarrymen remind me of the KKK, though nothing is said, it just took that bit of looking farther. You have these scary looking creatures who are gentle, kind, loving...just like humans. And just like humans, there are good and bad gargoyles. No one race is totally the nicest people. I wish Disney would not have started forcusing on those more cartoonish shows like Doug, Recess, Hercules, etc and focused more on a show with depth and character. A show that isn't easily forgotten and displaced. After these years without new eps of Gargoyles, my love for it has not weakened, neither has the hope that they will bring it back, in one form or another. Thank you Greg for such a wonderful show. I have a young daughter who'll be 2 in October, I plan to let her watch Gargoyles in a few years, when she understands it a little better...*sigh* Till then, I am stuck with Teletubbies. LOL! I already have her a Gargoyle t-shirt.

Sharon writes...

I'd just like to make a quick comment about the show. Sadly, my only exposure to Gargoyles comes from Toon Disney. Consequently, I have never seen the episode where Elisa gets shot. Therefore, I appreciated your rambling on the episode.

Finally, someone else asked if you would like the chance to air a more "adult" Gargoyles on stations like HBO. I am an adult, and I love the show as it is (was). Indeed, I think the show is geared to people of all ages. The stories were intelligent and interesting. Although I admit I would like to see the original unedited version of Gargoyles, I would hate to see a change in the basic spirit of the show. Gargoyles (in my humble opinion) is not Spawn. It doesn't need (nor should it contain) the same level of violence, sex or cursing that was evident on that show. I have nothing against Spawn (heck, I watched it when I could), I just like the ... I guess ... innocence of Gargoyles. I believe that a more violent or sexually charged show would cheapen it. Although I agree that the more liberal atmosphere offered by cable would be great, I would hate to see it change the tone of the show. Or, to fall back on an old cliche, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
(So ends a ramble of my own).

Blaise (repost by Aris) writes...

ENTER MACBETH

I'm sorry to hear you guys had such trouble with keeping the continuity straight in this one. But I'm very glad you did.
It always impressed me that you guys put Elisa on crutches and didn't have her "right as rain" in the episode after she got shot.
One thing that makes me smile in this ep is Xanatos's prison cell. A rug, a nice desk with computer...even in PRISON this guy lives better than the people around him. I love his line, too, when he's in the cafeteria: "Just like mom used to make--when mom was a prison cook." Xanatos calls it a "learning experience." What did he learn--not to get caught again? ;-)
And Macbeth, WOW! I didn't really know it was John Rhys-Davis doing the voice at the time (I just wondered who the Sean Connery sound-a-like was), but everything about him was arresting. The way he held his own against Goliath, his connection with Demona (I was totally floored when he said he had named her), and his overall style was just wonderful.
I also liked the fact that the gargoyles DID have to leave the castle. It didn't surprise me as much because I had already figured they had no choice. A castle is just not so easily won anymore. However, I didn't know that it was a Clocktower to which they were moving--I thought it was Elisa's home. Silly me.
Yeah, I noticed the use of repeated dialogue--easily ignorable for me in Elisa's case, but not so much with Lex and Brooklyn. And the animation does have areas I don't particularly care for, but with this good of a story it doesn't really matter.
Goliath's appearance on the street is pretty impressive, but a lot of us still tend to wonder how so many people seeing him still put "living gargoyles" as an urban myth. I guess the ol' ignore-'em/publicity-stunt mentality is pretty strong, eh?
I always enjoy Brooklyn and Lexington's banter when they're in the cage. Brooklyn constantly touching the cage and giving out a dead-pan "Ouch" is always amusing. Then there's the part where Goliath lets out a roar while in Macbeth's house and Lex just says in a subdued voice "Bronx must've found Goliath" with only Brooklyn's equally-subdued "Yeah" as a response. I LOVE that part.
Goliath laughing maniacally--so in addition to inheiriting Goliath's temper, Thailog also inherited his laugh. At least we now know the answer to Hudson's question in DOUBLE JEOPARDY. Actually, I kind of like it that the hero gave a maniacal laugh. The gargs still have that edge here.
And how about Owen? I still think it kicks @$$ that he took down Hudson and pulled a gun on Broadway in trying to protect the Grimorum. Shame he didn't keep an eye on the injured party, though. Still he demonstrates once again why he's head and shoulders above all "villain sidekicks."

Pyro X (repost by Aris) writes...

Enter MacBeth and Deadly force:

I thought the Animation in Enter MacBteh wasn't half bad. I thought the expression on MacBeth's face when he see's Bronx escape [He pulls his his towards his chest and his teeth go in a figure 8] was funny. I also liked the Goliath expression on his face when he said: "How dare you!"
Also, the stained glass of Demona and MacBeth: Great forshadowing. the sword part... now that just looked cool.

the one part I though was stupid was when Goliath smashed the brick wall. You could see the outline of the hole he was ABOUT to smash! seesh.

I knew something was up between Demona and MacBeth when I saw the glass. But it became way more clear when he said, "I want your queen." Still, I loved MacBeth's Character. I still do.

Deadly Force: When Broadway is flying out of the woods, he goes up, the trees go down and the city comes up. I though that was very cool. When Dracon laughs at stealing the guns, it's a comical laugh. It just looks funny. Go figure.

Derek seems like a no nonsense guy here... Ma Maza asks about calling up Sister Maza from Arizona... Derek says "Don't talk like that." [Or something to that effect.] Right then I knew that he was a tough guy, and would later have a bigger role.

What else? Nothing I guess. Most of what I liked contradicts what you like... but nobody's perfect.

Thanks!

Mike J. (repost by Aris) writes...

ENTER MACBETH

A series like "Gargoyles" is build (in my opinion) on the strength of its villians, and Gargoyles had some of the BEST villians going, especially Macbeth. Even Xanatos, in armor, didn't try to take on all the gargs at once (The Edge) much less succeed the way Macbeth does. Throw in the character's phenomanal personality and history, and you have one very engaging and dangerous guy.

As to the episode itself... I'm forced to agree it was the worst animation in season one. Did you notice in the final shot of Macbeth (in the tape Owen shows Xanatos) that he's got a mustache! Personally that bugged me more than the other probelems. At least keep the character's LOOK right! :)

My favorite part of the episode, amongst many cool moments: While Goliath battles Macbeth, Bronx frees Brooklyn and Lex by CRASHING BODILY STRAIGHT THROUGH THE ELECTRIFIED BARS! This time without the benefit of diveted current. This feat is so impressive it even shocks Brooklyn and Lex. Just look at their faces! I think their actually scared of him at this moment. In my mind, this established Bronx as being, pound for pound stronger than all the gargs, including Goliath.

My two cents... thanks for listening, er.. reading.

Ed writes...

"METAMORPHOSIS" - a big favourite of mine.

I liked Derek after "HER BROTHER'S KEEPER"; I suppose his situation was so believable and yet immensely gripping.

But "METAMORPHOSIS" stunned me. I remember that I timed this episode for some reason - I think I'd assumed up until then that cartoons were cut to exactly 20 minutes and wanted to check it out just out of curiosity. So when I was timing it I was thinking "yeah, right - how long until he gets his cure?" Despite everything, I thought they'd suddenly turn up with a cure eventually. Of course, when my watch told me the thing had been running 19 minutes, my eyebrow raised.

The ending was incredible. I was hooked. I just had to know what happened to Talon. In fact, GMTV never showed it. Eventually I caught "THE CAGE" on the Disney Channel (which I didn't have access to when they showed the episodes first time around). In fact, I think the first episode I saw on TDC that I hadn't already seen was "THE CAGE", which pleased me. That was great too.

I think the whole business of Sevarius' death play and the serum bothered me. How on earth could they have timed it so precisely that Sevarius had his serum to smash at the same time the "Gargoyles" arrived, and that he could be sure of a good way to "die".

Siren writes...

METAMORPHOSIS

I have a thing for cat-like characters as well. Catwoman from Batman has always been one of my favorite characters. So I liked the mutantes a lot. I love the electric eel thing too, it was very cool and very different. I like Talon's attitude. And Fang was a nice addition. I like Claw, but wish I could have seen more of him in the series. Maggie was a slight disappointment, mainly cause we didn't get to see her grow as much. They all seem to accept their new form later in the series, enjoy it even. Maggie was very different from the other mutants. She was more afraid, unsure, cautious...can't blame her. I am getting ahead of myself with this episode into other mutant episodes...but oh well...Maggie is very weak at first. Like a scared little kitten really. Very different from all the other strong female characters.
I think this episode also defined the moment for Brooklyn and all Brooklyn fans from then on. Here's ya got a handsome young gargoyle, who loves this new "gargoyle-like" creature and she blows him off, calling him a monster, even though she resembled a gargoyle. Then she runs to Talon. So ya got this sympathy for Brooklyn. Cause Lex and Broadway didn't seem as interested in her as he was. Ya got Demona even, in Temptation, to me, I felt that when he started to trust her, he started to like her, then she betrays him horribly. Then later, Angela goes for Broadway, when a lot of fans, including me, thought it would be Brooklyn. And poor Brook get's upstaged again, by one of his best friends too. Not that I wasn't happy myself. Actually, I like Broadway/Angela better then Brooklyn with her. Broadway isn't so "pushy"...I am gonna get it from all them Brook fans...So Brooklyn grows slightly from this. It's been over a thousand years, most of those sleeping, but the waking, with no females, so ya got this 16 year old boy, trapped on an island and suddenly the only female blows him off. It's hard for him and he develops the jealousy with Talon.
I also was slightly surprised, but certainly not disappointed by the ending. It was perfect for the episode and I wouldn't want to see it any other way.
BTW, I like look you developed later for the the mutants as well.

Blaise writes...

METAMORPHOSIS

Ah, one of my favs. Pity I missed it the first time it aired.
Throughout the second season, the show was on while I was still in school, so I had to tape it all the time. Three times the VCR, for one reason or another, failed to tape. Each time, the eps that aired were new ones--METAMORPHOSIS, THE CAGE, and KINGDOM (are you sensing a pattern here?). What made this twist of fate REALLY cruel is that these are some of my favorite eps. I love cats for one thing, so I was instantly attracted to the Mutates. This episode was also the one that cemented Brooklyn as my favorite character, so there's another. And, in two of the missed eps, Tim Curry, one of my (again) favorite actors, is featured.
Missing this ep didn't put me too far out of the loop. The only reference to it I picked up was Elisa's remark in EYE OF THE BEHOLDER that the Werefox was "human once, just like [her] brother." For some reason I didn't catch the reference to "mutated victims" and in OUTFOXED, after an initial "Huh?", I forgot about Renard's mention of some "Anton Sevarius" (keeping the strength of THAT revelation safe until the second time around). But, I digress. On with the ep itself.

Brooklyn's attraction to Maggie (whom I instantly recognized and grew interested in--what can I say, I have an affinity for cat-women) intrigued me. I always wondered if the fact that she wasn't a true gargoyle even mattered to him. Did I root for him and Maggie to get together? Not neccesarily. Did I *expect* it? Actually, yes. The attitude Brooklyn displays here is usually as deep as most animated shows go in depicting "love." After some intiial shock, my admiration for the series increased when Maggie wound up with Talon and Brooklyn's attraction was shown as just a crush. Regardless, his "love at first sight" mentality was something in Brooklyn I found appealing (a fellow hopeless romantic, perhaps). His experiences here and his final acceptance of the facts grabbed my notice and from this ep on, I always tended to favor him (though I made an effort not to do so at the expense of the other characters).
Looking at the ep, knowing what I know about the characters now, Brodway's ability to "read people" versus Brooklyn's self-delusion is very nicely juxtaposed, and they have some good exchanges. When Brooklyn tells Broadway "You don't know anything about her" there is much irony--Broadway knows more about her than Brooklyn does.

For what it's worth, I believed Xanatos (probably helped because I had seen EYE OF THE BEHOLDER before I got to see this). He seemed sincere enough to me, and mutation seemed ultra-slimy even for him. Boy was I surprised at the end. I was even more surprised by the end than by Sevarius' "death"--you guys had let people die in the series before, why not now? My surprise was tripled when I saw that Sevarius looked much younger and had a less thick accent than how he'd been played. I thought Sevarius the "mad scientist" was the real thing--he was voiced by Tim Curry who is usually thrown into the roles of over-the-top scientists and (in his own words) "east-European villains" so it was a pleasure to see a sort of send-up of type-casting in this. (And who couldn't recognize Sevarius? Even without the accent, he still had Tim Curry's inimitable pipes.)
The ending: Morbidly enough, this ending is one of my favorites because the good guys actually lost this round. Brooklyn's brooding and Elisa's crying really drove this point home. I am, strangly enough, reminded of a joke T-shirt: "Sometimes, the dragon wins."
And FINALLY! I now know who did the voice of the as-yet-unnamed Fang in this ep. I knew it wasn't James Belushi (it didn't have quite the same "growling" quality) but I couldn't for the life of me figure it out, something I can normally do. Truth be told, I would NEVER have guessed it was Jonathan Frakes (though now it seems so obvious to me). Still, the voices are similar enough, and even if they weren't, the Mutates' voices tended to change with their appearance (Rocky Caroll's (sp?) voice for Derek is different than his voice for Talon, and Kath Souci's voice for Maggie was slightly different in KINGDOM than for her first two appearances). But, nice trivia to know.
I hadn't really noticed how much the theme of self-deception was a factor in this, but it makes sense.
And yes, the animation is sub-par, but I just like the story so much I can live with it (and if I can live with the animation in KINGDOM, I think I can live with anything).
POINTLESS OBSERVATION> Not only does Hudson get left at the Clock Tower, but in this ep (as well as TEMPTATION) he doesn't get a single line). In fact his first words to Maggie are "Who's there?" in THE CAGE.

I'm sure there was more I wanted to say, but I think this message is thick enough already.

Punchinello writes...

Hello.
I see you are making progress with your backlog of questions. This question is kind of an ammendment to another question of mine.

A couple of months ago I asked if your idea for Owen was influenced by an archetype I referred to as being "a supernatural charachter indentured to a human master." I made reference to djinn being bound within oak or silver. Now, I dont recall if I was thinking this at the time, but...

I had just recently viewed "Prospero's Books" by Peter Greenaway again. There is a rather disturbing scene therin, of Ariel, bound in his "cloven pine." Spitting out splinters of wood and carring on. It's all rather ghastly. I had, in the past, made the observation that Ariel could be an other example of this archetype. I think, however, that I needed the emphasis Greenaway placed on certain elements to make some connections apparent to me. Of some peripheral interest is the fact that ariel is another spirit bound in a tree, but of greater interest is the stress placed on the characters servitude to Prospero. It was not much of a stretch to *read Owen* into the character.

OF GREATER INTEREST was how easy it became to read Xanatos into Prospero. I was struck by several things in this vein. The first being the parallel between the two men's status as "mortal's" who had aquired great power through supernatural means; particularly through the service of a captive spirit. (I realize the term "captive" does not really describe Owen's situation.) Further, Xanatos' collection of supernatural artifacts (The Eye, the Grimorrim, even the Gargoyles) could be a reflection of Prospero's robes and staff. The artifacts which empower him.

I also considered (perhaps on the heels of watching an adaptation that placed such emphasis on Pospero's Books) that the Grimorrim might be a volume Xanatos "valued above his dukedom."

I wonder also if a reading of Xanatos as *the exiled duke* would be too far off. Milan is in rather close proximity to Greece. I believe you placed Petros Xanatos as a native, there. While Xanatos may not have been physically exiled from his place of birth, it could be argued that his distance from his father and their conflicted relationship could be read as a kind of exile.

Now, I realize you have your reasons for not wanting to confirm or deny ideas that you had for the show, but were not able to elaborate on before it's cancellation. I read the anecdote about the guy who thought you had stolen his idea. (Wasn't he asking about the characters from "The Tempest," actually?) At this point, however, I think you have rather concretely established that Shakespeare plays a rather prominent and consistent theme in "Gargoyles." I cant imagine that anyone would not be inclined to believe that you were going for this reading from the beginning.

Maybe I'm completely wrong about all of this, but I'm sure it will elicit some interesting commentary from you.

Todd Jensen writes...

Just read your "Metamorphosis" ramble. Thanks for it.

"Metamorphosis" is one of my favorite episodes - largely because of what I thought was a very effective ending (Elisa letting Xanatos have it verbally for what he did to Derek, then weeping back at the clock tower); I certainly agree with you that it made a great tragic close to the story. Elisa's weeping scene remains for me, to this day, one of my favorite "great moments" in "Gargoyles".

And I was certainly fooled by Xanatos the first time that I saw this episode. I actually believed him when he made it look as if he wanted to help Derek. In fact, when he refused to let Sevarius cage Derek, saying, "He's a man, not an animal", I practically gave him a mental standing ovation. And then, of course, when I discovered the truth at the end....

But it's interesting to note that I got fooled by Xanatos even AFTER I was familiar with his being the main villain in the series. I knew perfectly well what he was capable of, and yet still actually wanted to think that his concern for Derek was genuine.

Sevarius's apparent death also took me quite by surprise; even though I knew that "Gargoyles" wasn't a typical Disney cartoon, I was still staring at the scene where he apparently gets electrocuted and Xanatos announces his death, with an attitude of "They actually killed somebody in a Disney television cartoon?" (Of course, I must have forgotten about the Wyvern massacre, the fates of the Captain and Hakon, and even Elisa getting shot in "Deadly Force" - although she doesn't actually die there - at the time). Sevarius turning out to be alive at the end definitely astonished me as well.

I don't recall, on the other hand, what I thought at the time about Brooklyn and Maggie's sub-plot (I hadn't even realized, I might add, until after reading your memo, that that and Derek's part of the story both shared the "self-deception" theme, although it makes perfect sense to me now). I did sympathize a lot with Maggie, though; she gets mutated as almost a conscript for a war that she knew nothing about.

One last little note of interest: although you don't mention it in your ramble, Xanatos and Sevarius tell an additional lie that doesn't even get exposed as a lie until later on in the series, about not yet having any gargoyle genetic material to create a clone from. And then we discover in "Double Jeopardy" that they'd already created a clone (given that they got the blood sample from Goliath needed to create Thailog before the gargs even left the castle in "Enter Macbeth").

As for Sevarius's name: well, I think that it's kind of appropriate that it would sound cliched, given the way that the guy revels in cliches.