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Antiyonder writes...
With issue six, we finally got to read one of your Untold Tales for Gargoyles. Some others that I've heard about on Ask Greg:
1. You never gave a title, but this was set in New York during The Avalon World Tour. You mentioned that this story had Xanatos taking advantage of Goliath's absence.
2. Hobgoblins Of Little Minds.
3. The Weird Macbeth.
4. Arthur's adventure between Avalon Part Three and Pendragon.
5. The Multitrickster story.
Aside from those five, are there any other stories that you planned for the first two season, but never got to? Not asking for spoilers, just a yes or a no. I'll understand if you don't want to answer though.
Greg responds...
Well, saying I "planned them for the first two seasons" isn't really accurate for ANY of the above, including 3 and 5, which we considered doing in season two. But I have other stories from that era like 1 and 4 that I can/will tell some day. But 2, 3 and 5 haven't happenned yet in the continuity.
Galahad writes...
I know you don't want to go into the specifics of Samson's parentage because it doesn't matter in Gargoyle culture but from what I've read on GargWiki <http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/> about Canon-in-training characters, you've hinted that "Artus will most closely resemble Broadway and Hudson," "Gwenyvere may most closely resemble Angela and Demona," and Lancelot "may resemble Goliath to some degree." (Did they misquote you?) You've said that Samson would also resemble Goliath. Sense Lancelot, among Broadway and Angela's children, resembles Goliath the most, wouldn't it be logical for fans to assume that Samson is the son of Lancelot, who he probably resembles as they both resemble Goliath? You don't have to say if I'm right or not, just tell me whether or not my logic is flawed in some way.
Greg responds...
Well, it's not that your logic isn't... logical, but of course it is flawed. I'm sure people in most families can point to someone who doesn't particularly look like his or her parents, but could be a dead ringer for old photos of a grandparent.
OCTOBER 29
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 29th...
1995
Tony Dracon, Dominic Dracon and their men are taken into custody. Martin Hacker calls to see if Matt's all right. Matt asks Hacker to find the whereabouts of Mace Malone's stepson Jack Dane. Later, Elisa helps Broadway order a new Detective costume for Halloween to replace the one destroyed during the Silver Falcon case.
1996
At midnight, Travis Marshall begins to broadcast Nightwatch on WVRN in New York - in part as a response to the revelation that gargoyles truly exist. Vinnie Grigori and Gargoyles Taskforce leader Matt Bluestone, among others, are interviewed. Meanwhile, the gargoyles try to readjust to life back at the castle with Xanatos. Goliath departs to see Elisa. He turns to stone outside her apartment. John Castaway recruits Vinnie and other citizens into the Quarrymen. That morning, Taro, having seen Vinnie on Nightwatch, offers him a security job in Japan. Just before sunrise, Banquo and Fleance spot Goliath on Elisa's balcony. They contact Castaway who convinces Vinnie to join the hunt. Elisa manages to protect Goliath until sundown when he awakens. Goliath and Elisa flee. The Quarrymen give chase and injure Goliath's wing. Goliath and Elisa are forced to take to the rooftops of Manhattan in order to make their way back to the relative safety of the castle. At the castle, Hudson watches a special early edition of Nightwatch, with Travis Marshall moderating a debate between anti-gargoyle Assistant District Attorney Margot Yale and pro-gargoyle medieval scholar Lennox Macduff (actually Macbeth). Lex bonds with Alexander and declares a truce between himself and Fox. Mr. Duval of the Illuminati Society contacts Xanatos. David declines to take Duval's call. Angela and Broadway share they're first kiss, and Brooklyn realizes that he has no chance with Angela now. The Quarrymen pursue Elisa and Goliath to the ruined Clock Tower. Elisa and Goliath take most of the Quarrymen out one by one. But Castaway nearly succeeds in killing them both. At a crucial moment, Vinnie switches sides, giving Goliath time to recover. Castaway is forced to flee. Goliath and Elisa return to the castle.
OCTOBER 27
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 27th...
1994
At the risk of his Cyberbiotics assets, Halcyon Renard determines to replace his destroyed Fortress-1 airship with a new Fortress-2 that is to be manned almost entirely by cybots.
1995
Broadway stops by Elisa's place to pick up the Trio's Halloween costumes and to watch a video of his favorite thirties gangster movie. Captain Chavez, concerned about Bluestone, contacts Elisa, who begins investigating Matt's disappearance with Broadway (who dons his Halloween costume for the case). They stumble on Pal Joey ransacking Matt's apartment, and Broadway rescues all three of them when a bomb Joey planted explodes prematurely. Elisa keeps Matt's rendezvous with Hacker.
1996
Robyn Canmore is arrested. Jason, who is also arrested, survives surgery but is paralyzed from the waist down. Xanatos tells Elisa that the gargoyles are welcome to stay at his castle. Just before dawn, Elisa and Goliath kiss for the first time. Jon Canmore contacts the Illuminati. In very short order, they set him up with a new identity, John Castaway, and put him in charge of the Quarrymen organization that they already had in the works. Macbeth's former minions Banquo and Fleance are hired to assist Castaway.
OCTOBER 26
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 26th...
1994
Vinnie's driver's license is revoked when he claims gargoyles smashed his motorcycle into a wall.
1995
Elisa receives the Trio's Halloween costumes. Matt, still in Dracon's custody, finds out that Mace's Silver Falcon letter has nothing to do with the Illuminati. But he decides that if he ever gets out of this situation alive, he'll continue his hunt for Mace.
1996
With Lex's help Goliath tracks the Hunters to an upstate hydroelectric dam. Goliath and Broadway battle the Hunters. Elisa tries to break up the fight, but she and Jason seemingly fall off the dam to their deaths. That day, Robyn and a vengeful Jon manage to decrypt Demona's disk and learn about her plan. The Praying Gargoyle will protect her and her kind, while the Medici Tablet, the D/I-7 and the CV-1000 will blend science and sorcery to destroy humanity. Meanwhile, some distance below the dam, Jason manages to pull Elisa to safety. The night of the Hunter's Moon, Demona, the Hunters, the gargoyles, the NYPD's Gargoyles Taskforce (GTF), the press and many bystanders all converge at St. Damien's Cathedral in Manhattan. While Demona prepares her spell, the Hunters and the other gargoyles fight. Jason and Elisa arrive, trying to call a truce. But Jon refuses. He shoots at Goliath but badly injures Jason instead. Jon flees. Goliath stops Demona by destroying the Praying Gargoyle, forcing her to abandon her plan or die herself. Demona flees, but the GTF has the rest of the gargoyles dead to rights. Suddenly, Xanatos shows up and rescues them.
OCTOBER 25
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 25th...
1994
Officer Morgan is transferred to the 23rd Precinct.
1995
Matt Bluestone questions G.F. Benton, unaware that the man is really Dominic Dracon. Matt follows a lead from "Benton" to the location of the old Silver Falcon speakeasy, where he's captured by Tony Dracon.
1996
The Hunters trace Goliath back to the Clock Tower and blow it up. One of the Hunters pulls Elisa from the police precinct. She removes his mask and recognizes her new partner, Jason. He drugs her and leaves her in her apartment. Meanwhile, the explosion causes Maria Chavez to break her leg. The gargoyles barely survive, and Hudson and Lex are badly injured. Jon Canmore has the opportunity to destroy them, but he allows them to flee the Clock Tower. Unfortunately, Robyn forces Jon to blame the gargoyles for the Clock Tower's destruction on the television news. Now the entire city knows they exist and is hunting for them. The gargoyles hide out at Elisa's loft. That day, Elisa and Matt meet with Maria Chavez in her hospital room. They've discovered the Canmore siblings' true identities. Robyn breaks into Demona's vault, but Demona has already emptied it of everything but a computer disk. That night Goliath goes in search of the Hunters.
OCTOBER 24
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 24th...
1994
Reconstruction of the Eyrie Building's Castle is completed.
1996
The Trio and Bronx fail to stop Demona from stealing the D/I-7. Worse yet, Goliath, Hudson and Angela are attacked by the Hunters. Angela is badly wounded. The gargoyles reconvene at the Clock Tower but are unsure if Angela will survive until dawn. Goliath vows vengeance on the Hunters. Elisa arrives just before sunrise and performs CPR, saving Angela's life. Later that morning, Dominique Destine introduces Robyn to Dr. Sevarius, who's created a carrier virus called CV-1000. Dominique places a sample of the virus in a vault beside the D/I-7, the Medici Tablet and the Praying Gargoyle. That night, Angela wakes from her stone sleep, healed. The gargoyles leave the Clock Tower to search for the Hunters. Elisa, having missed the Gargoyles, invites Jason to her loft for dinner. From her balcony, Goliath watches Jason and Elisa kiss. Angered, he, Brooklyn and Lex board the Hunter's craft alone. Once inside, they find Demona is also after the Hunters. All four gargoyles are captured, but allowed to escape.
OCTOBER 17
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 16th...
1996
When the real Hudson and Goliath return to the Clock Tower, they find Coldstone and are soon convinced that Othello controls his body. They follow Coldstone back to the Eyrie. Minutes later, Iago, Othello and Desdemona return to the Tower in their appropriated bodies. They free Lex, who surmises that Iago must now be in control of Coldstone and has tricked Goliath and Hudson into declaring war on Xanatos. The real Iago, still posing as Brooklyn, suggests that they destroy the Coldstone body once and for all. Othello agrees, despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that this action would strand the various souls in their new bodies. At the Eyrie, Puck uses the Coldsteel and Coldfire robots to capture Goliath and Hudson. The others arrive soon after. Iago knocks Lex unconscious to take him out of the action, but when Lex recovers, the spirit of Alexander enters his body. Puck, meanwhile, uses Coldstone's body to take down Angela/Desdemona and Broadway/Othello. Brooklyn/Iago tries to make off with Desdemona, but Puck uses Coldsteel and Coldfire to stop him. After some further conflict, Lex/Alex transfers Iago, Othello and Desdemona into Coldsteel, Coldstone and Coldfire, respectively. Coldsteel flees, and Coldstone and Coldfire take off in pursuit. Puck returns Alexander to the nursery and transforms back into Owen just before Xanatos and Fox return.
OCTOBER 16
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 16th...
1996
Xanatos and Owen make a third attempt to transfer the souls of Iago and Desdemona into independent robot bodies. It too fails. Later, David and Fox go out for the evening, leaving Alexander in Owen's care. Owen decides to teach Alexander his first lesson in magic. Owen transforms into Puck, then glamours himself and Alexander into dead-ringers for Goliath and Hudson. They "liberate" Coldstone from the Eyrie and take him to the Clock Tower. There, "Goliath" convinces Angela and Broadway to allow the souls of Desdemona and Othello to take up temporary residence inside their bodies. Coldstone is emptied of all three souls, and the Iago soul secretly enters Brooklyn. "Goliath" and "Hudson" then depart, leaving "Brooklyn" in charge. Iago convinces Othello and Desdemona to try out their new bodies. He then follows them to the Statue of Liberty, where he hints that they might keep Broadway and Angela's bodies for themselves. Meanwhile, Puck and Alexander enter Coldstone's body; they grab Lex, tie him up in a corner and gag him.
Rebel writes...
Okey dokey! In my previous post, I had far too many topics in one question, so I am hoping that I have made this particular question inclusive enough to make the cut.
Anyway, hi Greg! I have some questions about hair in Gargoyles (insignificant topic, I know). Why do the artists keep making Angela's hair brown? In the show it looks black. Brooklyn has white hair in youth, whereas in "City of Stone", Demona's red hair turned white with age...so...was Hudson's hair always white or did it change with age? If it changed, what color was it; I would like to know this for possible fan art. Will any of Demona's descendants inherit her spiky red hair? I love the color and the spiky-ness of it and I'm really hoping a major future character gets it (note I am not asking you to specify WHO gets it, just whether *someone* will). And finally, will Brooklyn's children have black hair? It seems like most of the Asian gargoyles have black hair but I'm really hoping Brooklyn's children don't, as it seems kinda over-done in the Gargoyles universe.
Greg responds...
Angela and Goliath both have dark brown hair. Sometimes colorists emphasize the brown... sometimes the dark, which makes it look black. Personally, I prefer when it's nearly black myself, but it is brown.
Brooklyn's hair is white.
Whether Hudson had white hair as a youth is something that we'll have to wait and see about.
And I'm hardly likely to reveal or even commit to hair colors for Demona's descendents or Brooklyn's children. Why tie the hands of my colorists down the road?
OCTOBER 13
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 13th...
1996
When Demona refuses to allow Thailog to kill Angela, he reveals an additional clone: Delilah, created from a combination of Demona and Elisa's DNA. Demona frees Talon, Goliath and the clan. They manage to recapture Fang and take down the clones. But while fighting each other, Demona and Thailog seemingly perish in a fire. Talon offers to take the other clones back to the Labyrinth where he promises to teach them to think for themselves.
Charisma82 writes...
Hey! Why is it that once Fox put on the Eye of Odin that it took 2 days before she started to transform and that the Eye transformed Goliath right when he put it on?
Thank you for your time and all that you do.
-Charisma82
Greg responds...
Proximity to Odin?
OCTOBER 12
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 12th...
1995
Xanatos acquires the Cauldron of Life and prepares to test it by ordering the construction of a pair of Macbeth robots and a statue of Hudson. He also begins looking for a sword that will match Hudson's to be used with the statue.
1996
Relieving Talon, Goliath takes his shift guarding the Labyrinth prisoners. Thailog busts Demona and Fang out. Talon and Goliath pursue them to Coney Island. Goliath departs and quickly returns with Angela, the Trio and Hudson. All are captured by Fang, Demona, Thailog and his clones: Hollywood, Brentwood, Malibu and Burbank (made from the DNA of Broadway, Lexington, Brooklyn and Hudson, respectively).
OCTOBER 7
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 7th...
1994
Xanatos used the data on the disks to activate his Steel Clan Robots, which he and Demona immediately set against the gargoyles. The attempt is ultimately futile; the robots are destroyed. Demona, however, gets the drop on Goliath. She reveals her name and her complicity with Castle Wyvern's Captain of the Guard. Elisa prevents Demona from killing Goliath. And Goliath once again saves Elisa's life. Demona disappears. Xanatos is arrested and thrown in jail, initially on multiple felony charges that include grand theft and industrial espionage. Due to his wealth and international connections, he is considered a flight risk and held without bail. Repair work begins immediately to restore all damage to the castle.
OCTOBER 6
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 6th...
1994
Elisa discovers that gargoyles turn to stone during the day. She's forced to lead the Commandos away from a stone Goliath in order to protect him. She then waits by his side throughout the day, cementing their friendship. That night the Trio takes the names Brooklyn, Broadway and Lexington and gives Bronx his name as well. Xanatos then reunites Goliath with Demona. Together, Demona and Xanatos convince Goliath and the clan to "retrieve" the computer disks from Cyberbiotics. Goliath and Demona attack Cyberbiotics' airship The Fortress-1, costing Vinnie his Cyberbiotics' security job in the process. The gargoyles are successful in recovering the disks. But the Cyberbiotics Underground Base (under the leadership of the Cyberbiotics Commander) is badly damaged by Hudson and Bronx. And Goliath grows disconcerted with the changes in Demona, particularly after she causes the destruction of Fortress-1. Elisa is able to convince Goliath that Xanatos has been using him, revealing that the disks were actually Cyberbiotics' property and that the Commandos were working for Xanatos.
OCTOBER 5
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 5th...
1994
Elisa investigates, encountering first Owen, then Xanatos, then Bronx and finally Goliath. Frightened at seeing a live gargoyle for the first time, she backs away and falls off the building. Goliath saves her life, introduces her to the rest of the clan and agrees to meet her the next night. Early that morning, Xanatos asks Goliath's help to get his disks back. Goliath is reluctant to help. And unbeknownst to him, Xanatos and Demona are planning something. That night, the Trio leaves the castle to explore the city and accidentally trashes the motorcycle of a man named Vinnie. Goliath and Hudson keep the rendezvous with Elisa, who more or less gives Hudson his name. Hudson retreats to the castle with Bronx - where they discover television and lounge chairs. Meanwhile, Goliath and Elisa rescue an ungrateful Margot Yale and Brendan Quarters from muggers, before being attacked in Central Park by the Commandos from the night before.
OCTOBER 4
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 4th...
1994
The final touches on the castle are completed. It now sits atop the Eyrie Building, high "above the clouds", thus fulfilling the condition of the Magus' spell. The Magus' curse is broken, and Goliath, Hudson, the Trio and Bronx awaken to a brave new world. Minutes later, a group of Commandos attack and seem to steal three disks from Xanatos. This attracts the attention of New York City Police Detective Elisa Maza. Elisa also meets Officer Morgan for the first time.
1995
The werefox is first sighted in Manhattan.
OCTOBER 1
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 1st...
994
Just before dawn, Goliath and Hudson discover that they have been following only a small contingent of Vikings; the rest must be preparing to attack the castle. The two gargoyles turn to stone before they can get back. Simultaneously, Demona nearly warns Othello and Desdemona, but changes her mind as she sees the Vikings approach. Instead, she hides at the foot of Wyvern cliff, where she turns to stone as the sun rises. Hakon attacks. The archers' sabotaged bows are useless, and the Captain opens the main gate, allowing the Vikings to enter Castle Wyvern, which is sacked. The humans, including Katharine, the Magus, Mary and Tom are led away bound. Hakon then sets about to destroy the gargoyles, including Othello, Desdemona, Iago and Hyppolyta. The Captain is "unable" to stop him. When the sun goes down again, Demona awakens to discover that the Wyvern Clan have been massacred. When she sees Goliath and Hudson returning, she cannot face them and flees before they can discover the massacre. The only other survivors seem to be the Trio and Bronx, who were in the Rookery. The survivors head for the Viking camp to take their revenge. When Hakon and the Captain hear the gargoyles approaching, they take Katharine as a hostage. The Magus mistakenly assumes that the Princess is dead. Blaming the gargoyles, he casts a spell on all but Goliath putting them to sleep "until the castle rises above the clouds." Meanwhile, Goliath confronts the Captain and Hakon atop a cliff. He rescues the Princess, and the two villains fall to their deaths. But when Goliath discovers that the rest of his clan has been turned to stone, he asks the Princess to watch over the eggs in the Rookery and asks the Magus to cast his spell one more time. Goliath is turned to stone with the others and placed atop Castle Wyvern. Demona later returns to the castle to find Goliath frozen in stone. She watches the Magus, Tom and Princess Katharine removing the eggs from Wyvern. She departs for good. Katharine dubs Tom the Guardian of the Gargoyle Eggs. Katharine, the Magus, Tom, Mary and the rest of Wyvern's human inhabitants take the eggs and leave the cursed castle to live under the protection of Katharine's uncle, King Kenneth II. Seconds later, three time travelers arrive in 994: the Demona of 1995 has brought the Demona of 975 along with the Goliath of 1995 to see the results of the massacre. But the 1995 Demona fails to convince the 975 Demona to take up her evil cause. The time travelers depart, returning to 975.
1995
Xanatos proposes to Fox and gives her the Eye of Odin as an engagement gift. She accepts both his proposal and the Eye. Alexander Fox Xanatos is most likely conceived on this night.
SEPTEMBER 30
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 30th...
994
The Captain approaches Hakon and offers to help him take the Castle. That night, the Captain and Demona try to convince Goliath to take all the gargoyles out of the castle to make sure the Vikings leave for good. But Goliath decides to only take one other gargoyle along with him, leaving Demona in command of the others. Demona and the Captain alter their plan. Hakon will now attack during the day, when the Gargoyles are stone. The Captain swears he'll keep the Gargoyle clan safe. Meanwhile, the Trio and Bronx meet Tom, resulting in a minor altercation with Mary and the refugees. To keep the peace, Goliath sends Bronx and the Trio down to the Rookery. Demona makes one more attempt to change Goliath's mind, and Othello offers to accompany Goliath. Goliath decides to take Hudson instead. Goliath and Hudson follow the Vikings' trail. While back at the Castle, the Captain sabotages the bowstrings of his own archers.
SEPTEMBER 29
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 29th...
500
Arthur is crowned King of Britain.
994
Hakon the Viking lays siege to Castle Wyvern, but is driven away by the Wyvern Clan of gargoyles. The Captain of the Guard invites Goliath and Demona to the celebratory feast. Princess Katharine is most seriously displeased. She demotes the Captain, declaring that from now on he will report to the Magus, who later prepares a spell to deal with the gargoyle clan, should they get out of hand. Seeing that Goliath will continue to tolerate human prejudice, Demona and the Captain find an excuse to temporarily lure the gargoyles away, so that the castle can be sacked and the humans taken away by Hakon, leaving Castle Wyvern to the gargoyles once more.
995
Michaelmas. Constantine III is so furious he initiates a plan to destroy all the gargoyles in Scotland.
1040
Macbeth is made High King of Scotland. He swears on the Stone of Destiny, to protect Scotland and serve her people. Macbeth names Demona and publicly rewards her and her gargoyles, welcoming them as his allies into his home and castle. Demona becomes his primary advisor. Thorfinn is rewarded with basic autonomy over Orkney, in practice if not in name.
1994
Xanatos inspects his castle atop the Eyrie Building. He wants everything to be perfect before he attempts to wake the gargoyles.
SEPTEMBER 27
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 27th...
1995
Despite Goliath and Elisa's efforts, Demona acquires Titania's Mirror from the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
SEPTEMBER 24
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 24th...
1995
Hudson washes ashore and is helped by author Jeffrey Robbins. Robbins realizes Hudson is illiterate and convinces him that he isn't too old to learn to read. After sunrise, Macbeth finds Hudson frozen in stone outside Robbins' place. Macbeth takes the scroll. The gargoyles attack Macbeth's Mansion to rescue Broadway and recover the Scrolls. But Macbeth loses interest in the Scrolls when he discovers they aren't Merlin's spellbooks. He allows the gargoyles to depart with them. Goliath returns the Scrolls to Elisa, who delivers them to the Museum. Hudson and Broadway immediately begin learning to read. Robbins starts work on a new book, The Sword and the Staff: A Book of Merlin.
SEPTEMBER 20
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 20th...
1995
Coldstone's repairs are completed. He is reactivated and attacks the Goldencup building, where he downloads government defense specs and is infected by a potent computer virus. Elisa and Matt are called in to deal with the situation using R.E.C.A.P. Lexington and Goliath accompany them and reunite with Coldstone. All are initially unaware that multiple personas (Othello, Desdemona, Iago and David Xanatos' programming) are vying for control of Coldstone's body. Coldstone flees to Ellis Island, and Goliath enters his mind to sort out the trouble. Meanwhile, Xanatos takes delivery on another batch of Steel Clan Robots from Scarab Corp.
SEPTEMBER 9
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 9th...
1995
Derek's transformation continues. Goliath, Lexington and Brooklyn raid Gen-U-Tech to liberate an unwilling Maggie. Goliath appears to accidentally kill Sevarius, destroying Derek's chance for a cure.
Blue_Moon_Goddess writes...
I thought clones were considered like... I don't know a sibling or something near that? Why is Thailog called Golaith's son, wouldn't he be seen as his brother instead?
Greg responds...
From Goliath's point of view, Thailog was created from him. A sibling to Goliath is someone who hatches at more or less the same time. A child comes after making use of the parents DNA, etc. Thailog is thus a son.
Greg Bishansky writes...
This is more a ramble reply to Alex Garg's post, but I definitely think this is a fascinating subject, and could make a great Ask Greg discussion.
Honestly, at this point, I don't think anyone in the Manhattan Clan cares much about any of the clones. Any of them. What was the first thing said when Thailog appeared to perish and the clones had no where to go? "We can't just bring them back to the Clock Tower can we? I mean, they kind of give me the creeps."
Right there, the Manhattan Clan wanted nothing to do with them. Wanted to pretend they didn't exist. Let Talon take them to live in a sewer. Out of sight, out of mind. Not that the reaction is not understandable, it is. I think we'd all be uncomfortable around clones of ourselves made against our will and knowledge. It's a fundamental violation of our individuality.
Did any of the Manhattan Clan go down to see them between "The Reckoning" and "Invitation Only"? I'd be very surprised if the answer is yes. The one time they do go down, they want something. Goliath is following Elisa's request to attempt to date Delilah. Brooklyn... just wants to make a play for the only available female he's aware of. They were down there both for selfish reasons.
So, yeah, all of their talk about free will probably was less for the clones' sake, and more towards the Manhattan Clan's hatred for Thailog. They hate Thailog, so naturally they don't want the clones to be helping him. At this point, do they have any other reason to care?
Lexington's only real concern when Brentwood chooses Thailog is how it makes him [Lexington] look. Not concern for Brentwood's safety, or eventually having to face him as an enemy. Lex thinks it makes *him* look bad.
I know this is a pretty serious indictment of the Manhattan Clan. I love them, they are heroes, there's a lot to admire in each and every one of them. But, they're not saints. Which is fine, they're more interesting this way... if I wanted a group of pure goodie goods, I'd read a Silver Age Justice League of America comic book.
Greg responds...
I don't disagree with any of the above, but I would temper it.
Again, I think Angela has an INTEREST in individuality and wouldn't want Delilah blindly following ANYONE. Delilah may have reacted to Angela as if Angela was giving her another order, but I don't think it's hard to see that that was clearly NOT Angela's intent. And if your looking for proof, just check out Angela's relationship with Goliath. She respects him as a leader. As a hero. A legend. She loves him as a father. But check out the World Tour, particularly Sanctuary. She's hardly following G. blindly.
And Goliath... in his slow, deliberate, bleeding-to-death way... had clearly given all this some thought too. He told Thailog that Delilah would not CHOOSE him (i.e. Thailog). He may seem confident of this (perhaps even over-confident), but there's nothing to indicate that Goliath plans to decide FOR her. And he doesn't decide for Brentwood either. There's preference and action. Two different things.
Galahad aka New to the Club writes...
So, you recently said that "Goliath makes a bargain" on July 19th 1997. What do you mean? What bargain?
Greg responds...
Seriously... why would you think I'd answer that now? It's not like I didn't know I was being cryptic.
Derek writes...
Why didn't Thailog just make a clone of Demona? He's not attracted to Elisa, you made it clear Goliath and Elisa was more spiritual. Was he just looking to piss Demona off?
Greg responds...
Even assuming that Goliath is not physically attracted to Elisa -- which is NOT something I've "made clear" as I disagree with that premise -- what does that have to do with Thailog?
But, yeah, pissing Demona off was a bonus.
Derek writes...
Will we ever see the biological parents of Demona, Goliath, Lexington or Brooklyn in the comics in Flashbacks?
Greg responds...
Sure. But you might not know it, as it's of no moment to these characters. If I hadn't let it slip that Hudson was Broadway's bio-dad, would you have guessed, known or cared?
aubrey writes...
could goliath and elisa have a child naturally with the help of science
Greg responds...
Perhaps with a LOT of science... Sevarius-style.
AUGUST 6
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
August 6th...
2004
Goliath is briefly forced into hiding.
AUGUST 3
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
August 3rd...
1996
Brod attacks Dracon in prison. But, the gargoyles help Elisa take down Brod, Dracon and most of their men. The gargoyles return to the Clock Tower, by which time Goliath, Hudson and Bronx have also returned. The Trio apologizes to Angela for their behavior. She forgives each of them with a peck on the cheek - just before the sun rises. Elisa's operation is a phenomenal success. Jack Dane, Pal Joey, Glasses and many other Brod and Dracon operatives are incarcerated. Dracon and Brod are even forced to share a cell.
AUGUST 2
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
August 2nd...
1996
Hudson destroys the battle-axe that tied Hakon to the Earth plane, permanently banishing the Viking's spirit. Goliath then defeats Wolf but gets hit in the face by a banana cream pie fired by Vinnie. Goliath and Hudson don't make it back to the Clock Tower before sunrise. Neither does Bronx, who's having his own adventure. Meanwhile, Brod attacks Glasses' chop shop with the help of Jack Dane and "Salli". But the raid is aborted when the police show up. Salli is knocked unconscious and witnesses very little that Elisa could testify to later. Angela and the Trio stumble into the situation, but the boys are too busy fighting over Angela to be of any help. After sunrise, Glasses visits Dracon in prison. Dracon orders Glasses to retaliate against Brod. Just before sundown, Matt brings Brod and Salli in for questioning. Salli slips away to the Clock Tower, where she reveals herself as Elisa and enlists the gargoyles' help. Salli then confers with Maria Chavez, and they agree to keep the undercover operation running for a while longer, despite the chop shop debacle. While Brod is at the police station, Dracon's men hit Brod operations all over town and even firebomb his favorite restaurant. Glasses also puts word out on the street that Dracon has a trainload of weapons coming in. Brod decides to steal the weapons. He attacks the train with Salli, but is ambushed by Glasses, Pal Joey and the rest of Dracon's men. The gargoyles intervene, but the Trio's competitiveness nearly gets Lex and Angela killed. Brod escapes again.
AUGUST 1
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
August 1st...
1996
Vinnie takes delivery of his pie-throwing bazooka, "Mr. Carter", from weapons manufacturer Mr. Acme. Wolf and his ancestor, the ghost Hakon, team up to attack Goliath and Hudson.
Jack Pumpkinhead writes...
Hey Greg,
I am an intern at Walt Disney World as a costumer. Last night I found out that Goliath has made appearances in the park as late as 2005, usually during Halloween. Did you know about this? Have you ever seen him around the parks? Do you know where I could find some pictures of him from the parks? The picture I saw wasn't the best, but still, knowing Disney has used Goliath in the parks is just awesome.
Greg responds...
I knew that they used him occasionally. Didn't know they'd used him recently -- if 2005 is considered recent. I have seen the costume in use -- at an event in NYC in 1996, but I've never seen Goliath in a park. And no, I don't have photos.
JULY 19
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
July 19th...
1996
Broadway is bitten by a robotic mosquito that samples his DNA.
1997
Goliath makes a bargain.
New to the Club writes...
Hi Greg, this is my first time to the ASK GREG website. Did Demona try to assassinate Hitler during World War II? Ha ha, just kidding. You stated in your guidelines not to submit original ideas masquerading as questions and you used the Demona Hitler question as an example. Hope you don't mind the joke.
Anyway, my actual question is kind of silly. What's Goliath's favorite snack food, excluding Jalepanos? Does he like candy?
Greg responds...
I hate to disappoint you on your first question... but I don't know. I'll let you (all of you) decide for yourself.
Isit writes...
Who amongst the modern day male human characters in gargoyles is goliath most like?
Greg responds...
In what way?
Wesley Nichols writes...
You mentioned in earlier posts that Goliath and Elisa will have Children of their own through adoption and would be parents to the Children of the Clan. Would most of these Children be human? Most Gargoyle Clans are too small to give up their eggs for adoption and most clans are now dead so will they adopt mostly human children? I had originally thought that Tachi and Nashville would count as parents, but you mentioned that Goliath and the others would be considered Rookery Aunts and Uncles, because they did not take part in the procreation of the Hatchlings.
Greg responds...
I never said through adoption. I never said children. I never said human. I never said gargoyle. I'm confident that I've been most reticent on this topic. That's not going to change anytime soon.
MAY 21
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
May 21st...
1996
Goliath challenges Odin, and the two "gods" do battle. Goliath comes close to killing Odin, Elisa, Angela and Bronx, but comes to his senses at the last moment and removes the Eye. Odin places it back in his empty eye socket, neutralizing the Eye's transformative powers. Reconciled with his former opponent, Odin rides Sleipnir up the Rainbow Bridge at sunrise. The gargoyles and Elisa spend the day in Norway. When the sun sets they return to Avalon.
Gerin writes...
I have two questions about statements that Goliath makes in "Awakening":
1) In Part I, Goliath states that Demona-to-be is his best warrior. Is his assessment correct, or is he trying to flatter her, or is his judgment clouded by the relationship?
2) In the final showdown in Part V, Goliath tells Demona: "There is good and evil in all of us, human and gargoyle alike. You should know that more than anyone."
That sounds as if Goliath had a specific incident in mind that should have taught Demona this, but I've never been able to figure out what Goliath is refering to. Is it a story that's never been told? Is it a story that popped up during the series and I just didn't catch it (and if yes, which one)? Or does he refer to nothing specific?
Greg responds...
1. I think any statement like that is perhaps arguable, but if she's not his best, she's probably damn close to it.
2. He did have a specific incident in mind. Her betrayal of the clan that led to the massacre.
Purplegoldfish writes...
Now you can't get rid of me...
So, watching through my tapes of the later episodes, and I just watched "The Green," one of my favorite world tour eps.
I remember when I first saw the scene after Goliath's and Elisa's argument, when Goliath turns around to glare at Elisa, and thinking 'What was that all about?'
I never felt he did that because he was simply angry at her for her point of view. All the other arguments that we've seen the two get into usually ended with either him agreeing with her, or just shrugging her off (or screaming in her face heh)-typical male ;)
So the way Goliath just stops in his tracks and slowly and deliberately turns to stare at her for a good five or six seconds suggests more to it-as if a realization about her just hit him.
So here's my theory: I think it just kind of hits Goliath how human Elisa really is. There's not just physical differences, but cultural ones as well. He realizes they're going to clash on many things because of their respective instincts and upbringings. Maybe he's thinking of his growing feelings for her-perhaps there's some human prejudice mixed in with those feelings as well-as if he realizes their vast differences and wishes for a moment that she were born a gargoyle and not a human.
And the way Elisa looks back at him suggests that she probably knows what he's thinking and is most likely sharing those same thoughts.
So am I on the right track or totally off?
Greg responds...
Well, I don't agree with your premise. I don't think that's even vaguely an angry look.
Kaylle writes...
Way back in October 2005, the day they released the cover art for the second DVD set, I watched a bunch of episodes instead of doing my homework and typed up my musings on them (mostly on Hunter's Moon and the Goliath/Elisa relationship) in my livejournal. Today I'm *still* trying to avoid my homework, and the queue is open again, so I thought I'd dig up those old musings and get your opinion on them (I may have posted something like this in the CR once as well; my apologies if you happened to catch it there). So here they are. I wrote:
"At the end of HM3, Elisa and Goliath finally get some "resolution" to their relationship. The infamous kiss it took us (and them) 65 episodes to get to. I hate to call it resolution at all because it doesn't really resolve anything; their relationship is still in a pretty uncertain place and kissing hardly changes that. But it's the first time they both admit what's going on between them and do something, however small, about it. And it provided some small measure of satisfaction for the fans, who were just beginning to realize that was all we were going to get. I remember being so hopeful, so excited, 13 years old, watching in awe as finally, *finally* the two of them "got together." I hadn't realized it was the season finale, although really it was pretty obvious (I didn't know cartoon shows *had* season finales). And I certainly hadn't realized it was, for all intents and purposes, the end." [Of course, I know now what I didn't know in October 2005-- it wasn't the end! We have a comic book!]
"But I digress. Anyway, I noticed two things today. First, in HM1, during the scene on the subway: after he dispatches the muggers, Elisa goes to Goliath, lays her head down on his chest, and says, "Nobody messes with my best friend." I always thought that was kind of a dangerous thing to say in public, although sweet. But I noticed today the way that Goliath reacts to it. Maybe I never noticed before, or maybe I just don't remember, but he reaches to touch her hair and then stops himself, grimaces, and pulls away. It happens so quickly it's easy to miss it. But something about that aborted gesture of affection really intrigues me.
"Did he stop because he thought she wouldn't appreciate the sentiment? Haven't we seen him touch her that way before? It's hard to remember because the two of them get so very few explicitly affectionate moments. There aren't a lot of episodes that deal with them. (The most obvious is The Mirror, but that was so long before this that it's hard to use it as an indication of their relationship now. Although there is that moment, while Demona and Puck are spying on them via the mirror, when Elisa sort of nuzzles her face into Goliath's shoulder. I'd love to know what the conversation was that led her to do *that*...) Their relationship is very clear to the viewer, but it's also very understated. Any romantic moments like that are part of some larger scene, some larger conversation, etc. (I was half-convinced, when I was a kid, that it was because Disney didn't want to deal with the xenophilia aspect. Now I can see that it's in character for them to act that way; both of them know what's going on but they can't admit it, can't act on it because they're certain there's no future in it. But when you're 12-13 years old you miss some of the subtler points <g>.) So, while I can think of romantic moments between Goliath and Demona, MacBeth and Gruoch, etc, Goliath and Elisa are much more subtle than that.
"So then I went picking through episodes looking for Goliath/Elisa moments. (Aren't they cute in Eye of the Beholder, dancing in their Halloween 'costumes'? Even the trio notices. "They should have Halloween more often.") As early as Awakenings 5, we see Elisa take his face in her hands. The closest embrace I can find is in Heritage, after Elisa's disappearance. They both look pretty happy to see each other there, and she doesn't show any reluctance to touch him or be held by him.
"So anyway, it could be because he thinks she won't appreciate the gesture. She has shied away from discussing their relationship in the past. Or it could be because they're in a train full of people (although, again, she's pretty much given them away to everyone on the train already).
"Or it could be because he doesn't want to let himself touch her? Because letting himself caress her hair (the gargoyle equivalent of a kiss, even if Elisa doesn't necessarily know that) means pretending, if only for a moment, that they have a relationship? And because he can't stand doing that to himself over and over again? Something to think about, anyway.
"The other thing that I noticed was that, although Goliath saw Elisa kiss Jason and heard what she said about her feelings, she doesn't know that. As far as she knows, nothing between them has changed since HM1. Obviously they're both happy to see each other after Jason rescues her (although Goliath is probably "happier" than Elisa is; at least, she didn't think he was dead). But nothing has happened, to her knowledge, to bring things between them to a head. So why does she finally decide to admit her feelings to him? Her dialogue doesn't really tell us anything, either. He says, "So... Things have come full circle," and Elisa replies, "Somehow, they always do. You know how I feel about you, right?" She brings it up apropos of nothing. (He doesn't seem startled by it, either. Why is that? I sure as heck was!)
"Is it her relationship with Jason? The realization that, even when presented with someone human who seems to be everything she's looking for (at least at first), she still wants Goliath? When offered the normal life she thinks she wants, she still chooses Goliath and the clan, and all the uncertainty and upheaval they imply. Is that it? Of course, they've had a traumatic couple of days, and that could be a reason all by itself."
At that point I decided that I'd spent way too much time analyzing things and that I really ought to be doing work, so I stopped. But I'm still intrigued by it all. I guess if I had to distill it down into a few questions, they would be:
1) Is there a reason for Goliath's gesture (or lack thereof) on the train, or am I thinking too hard/paying too much attention to tiny details?
2) Does Elisa know that touching hair is the gargoyle equivalent of a kiss? (Maybe not in so many words, since I doubt the gargoyles think of it in terms of how their gestures of affection are equivalent to human gestures, but does she realize the sort of underlying meaning of a touch like that?) And if so, how does she know? Just from observation and intuition? Did someone tell her?
3) Why does Elisa finally speak up at the end of HM3? What changes her mind about keeping quiet?
Thanks for listening to me ramble on a bit, and for taking the time to answer our questions. It's only out of love that we analyze every aspect of things :)
Greg responds...
1. I think all your thoughts are right on target, and the gesture (or lack thereoff) was certainly intentional on our part.
2. She does by now, yes. Whether she did then... I'd have to look again.
3. Events. Momentum. Passion. Change. Or whatever you decide.
I liked your ramble, btw.
Audra writes...
Hi Greg,
I just got comic #3 in the mail yesterday, and after reading it, I'm very excited! I'm so happy to have new Gargoyle stories written by you. For many years I have told my friends how I miss Gargoyles so so much... And when I say that, I meant new stories.
The art in comic #3 I think more like the TV show then the first two. (And I think it looks great!) I was quite surprised by what happened with Goliath and Elisa though. For some reason, I never thought Elisa would do that. Especially after Hunter's Moon. I don't know, I guess I am just a hopeless romantic, heh. But I guess I can't really relate to Elisa. I don't care so much about having kids, and having the normal family life... But it's important to me to be love with someone who loves me. I am in a long distance relationship, and have been for almost two years. I love my boyfriend so much and even though our relationship is hard because he lives on the other side of the world, I wouldn't change it for anything. (We see each other a few times a year, and he will be moving here after next year, but that's besides the point) I guess I just felt like Goliath and Elisa's love was strong enough to over come anything, but I guess not... Or at least, Elisa is not thinking of that at that moment... I really look forward to more comics, and I really want to know what happens with Goliath and Elisa... I'm so happy though about these comics being made!
Greg responds...
Stay tuned... or, uh, stay turning the pages... or poised to turn pages...
You get the idea.
The last word on Goliath & Elisa has not -- and I think this comes as no spoiler -- been written yet.
Maria writes...
If Goliath and Elisa had chidren what would they name them?
Greg responds...
I have no response to this question. Sorry.
Anonymous writes...
Who from his own generation was Goliath closest to pre-Massacre besides Demona? How close were Goliath and Coldstone/Othello?
Greg responds...
Close. He was close to Desdemona too.
Anonymous writes...
Was Demona truly the best candidate for the job of Goliath's second-in-command pre-Wyvern Massacre?
Greg responds...
He thought so. At least at the time. You can't deny she's a fierce warrior.
Anonymous writes...
Did Hudson have a second before Goliath? if so, who?
Greg responds...
I'm not revealing that now.
Makhasu writes...
In Sanctuary, Demona says to Goliath that "New York is your protectorate, Paris belongs to me!" Why was she so possessive towards Paris? Does it hold any special meaning for her?
Greg responds...
Yes. But mostly she's just saying, "Geez, dude, I leave the continent and you're STILL in my business?!"
Makhasu writes...
Who does Demona hate most: Goliath, Macbeth, or Elisa?
Greg responds...
I feel like I've answered this already. But even if I haven't... Why quantify something unquantifiable.
But if I had to guess, I'd say Elisa.
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