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Xanatos, David

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theSquiggyOne writes...

How many versions of the Steel Clan has Xantos created besides the first batch and the batch in the Edge with electric defenses and advanced AI?

Greg responds...

There have only been two models of Steel Clan Robot.

The original model, commissioned by Xanatos, seen in "Awakening, Part V" and "The Edge" and "Double Jeopardy" and "The Price", etc.

And the Iron Clan Robot model, commissioned by Owen Burnett, specifically to battle Oberon and/or Titania, as seen in "The Gathering, Part II". These are larger, and their chassis are made from iron as opposed to steal, but most of the other tech specs are the same.

The so-called "Advanced AI" model that I assume you're referring to from "The Edge" was not a robot at all. But a suit of armor (red in color) that Xanatos wore. Though from the outside it looked like a red version of the robots, it in fact was obviously constructed very differently. I'm not saying they didn't use any of the robot tech on the suit, since they obviously did, but it also required a separate develpoment phase.

Response recorded on February 06, 2003

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matt writes...

i was wondering what your timeline looks like around the time the Clan left the Eyrie Building in Fall 1994.

i watched "Double Jeopardy" tonight and saw that Owen acquiered Goliath's blood samples on November 15. that means the gargoyles left the castle after that, but i also saw that Elisa was there and not on crutches as she was at the beginning of "Enter Macbeth" which makes me think that the "Double Jeopardy" flashback also occured before "Deadly Force". i didn't realize that so much of the first season (six out of the eight episodes, not including "Awakening") happened after mid-November. of course, its even stranger cuz if all that is accurate, there actually is a small flashback in "Enter Macbeth" of Xanatos in his cell cuz his calendar shows late October, weeks before "Deadly Force" and the rest of "Enter Macbeth" would have happened.
is all that right?

when in 1996 (1997?) did the rest of the first season episodes occur? do you have that in your timeline yet?

Greg responds...

Hey matt -- in fact, hey everyone. I'm still pretty busy these days, and the backlog is intimidating, but I figured, if I NEVER got started, I'd never get started, if you know what I mean.

So I'm just going to try to answer one question every week-day.

Anyway, matt, here's an abreviated version of the timeline for this period:

10-28-94 Xanatos anticipates being released by Oct. 31st, the date of his next pre-trial appearance. [There is an outdated calendar on the wall of his cell that fits neither 1994 or 1995. It may not even be his.] (Enter Macbeth)

10-31-94 Xanatos plea bargains a six month sentence with every hope that the sentence will be reduced to three months for good behavior (including time served). (Thrill)

11-4-94 Lex makes contact with the Pack. (Thrill)

11-11-94 Brooklyn tests out the motorcycle and encounters Demona. (Temptation) Xanatos' sentence is officially recorded. Elisa checks out the clock tower.

11-12-94 Elisa informs Goliath that Xanatos will be out in a month. (She is exaggerating for effect, as it will actually be closer to two.) Later Demona, casts a spell on Goliath. (Temptation)

11-13-94 Elisa frees Goliath from Demona's spell. (Temptation)

11-15-94 Elisa again attempts to get Goliath to leave castle. Owen gets a cell sample. (Double Jeopardy)

11-18-94 Broadway accidentally shoots Elisa. (Deadly Force)

12-27-94 The clan enoys a pleasant night at the castle. Xanatos is still counting down days in prison. (Enter Macbeth)

12-31-94 Sevarius begins to clone Goliath. (Double Jeopardy)

1-3-95 Macbeth attacks the clan at the castle. (Enter Macbeth)

1-4-95 The gargs move to the clock tower. Xanatos is released from jail. (Enter Macbeth) Later, he checks in with Sevarius. (Double Jeopardy)

As for the rest of the first season...
The Edge, Long Way To Morning and Her Brother's Keeper all take place in January '95. Reawakening takes place in February of '95.

Response recorded on January 27, 2003

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Chapter XXXIII: "The Price"

Ramble, ramble, ramble...

The other night my family and I sat down to watch "The Price"...

Director: Dennis Woodyard.
Writer & Story Editor: Michael Reaves
Based on Comic Book Material by Lee Nordling

RECAP
It seems like I was starting to learn my lesson about not giving too much away in the "Previously on Gargoyles" section. This one is really all about Hudson, and issues of old age and mortality. I think it tends to hint that maybe, just maybe, we were thinking of killing him off. Anyone else think that perhaps we might?

There's some really great, really good looking character work in this animation. Pretty stuff.

There's a great moment where Hudson banks off an office building. Very cool.

Also, I like it on those rare occasions when we do weather in New York. Snow here. Or rain. Usually, it's all left standard for the same reason Elisa usually wears the same clothes. It's cheaper.

As the story opens, we're again trying to set Hudson up for possible termination, at least in the minds of the audience. He says, "Not a bad life all things considered..." which is usually an invitation for something really horrible to happen.

TIER STUFF

This is the last episode of our third tier. I had always hoped it would air last, since what happens at the end to Owen's hand would make interchanging very difficult. But on the first go-round it was ready long before a couple of other eps in the tier. So it aired early. (Particularly before Owen's appearance in "The Cage".) I tried to correct that for later runs. Sometimes with success. Sometimes not.

Anyway, because I couldn't be sure it would air in the right order, you can see that we hedged our bets a bit. Goliath doesn't understand how Macbeth escaped the Weird Sisters. He's not referring to events in "High Noon" which he could not have known about and which I could not guarantee would air before "Price". He's referring to events in "City of Stone, Part IV".

*At the moment he brought them up, my daughter Erin just happened to be coloring a picture of the Sisters drawn by artist David Wong (I think that's his name) who was selling them in the Dealer's Room at the Gathering 2001 in L.A. Erin was very excited by the kismet of the moment.*

Did you guys register Mac's limited dialogue? It would be tough in the first fight by itself. He does have four lines. And GARGOYLES was never a show to go in for extensive quipping during battles. So four lines may have seemed like enough.

And did you register the "Magic Sparkly Powder" when it first hit Hudson?

This ep is fun because there are so many layers of deceit going on.

Note that at this early stage, Goliath doesn't intend to kill Macbeth. He aims for the Sky-sled's control panel and hits it. The fact that the sled goes down is an unfortunate and unavoidable result. And Goliath clearly feels at least a little guilty. Hudson doesn't mind though. He thinks Goliath's action was perfectly reasonable.

I don't suppose anyone thought Mac was really dead? I wasn't really even trying to trick you into that one. Between the immortality info that you (but not the Gargoyles) knew from City of Stone and the early timing of the death in the episode, I figured nobody would be fooled. And I didn't want anyone fooled. Because that wasn't what I wanted to fool you guys about. I didn't want you to figure out that Macbeth was a robot. So I intentionally did not show the body, on the assumption that most everyone knows that if you don't see the body, the victim probably isn't dead. That way when Mac came back, you'd all be thinking, "Hah, Immortal!" instead of "Hah, Robot!"

BTW, everyone always asks how Hudson can believe Mac is dead and then later acknowledge Mac & Demona's immortality to Xanatos. But Hudson was thinking of immortality in the sense of living on without aging, ala the Norse Gods. Not in the sense that Mac was somehow immune to all injury and death ala the Greek Gods. Clear?

Lucky for Xanatos that all the Gargs seem to have favorite poses. (Cheaper that way, don't you know.) Of course it also helps that since they all wake up and go to sleep at the same time, they rarely get a good look at each other's poses. Makes statue prep easier, huh?

Anyway, when Hudson didn't wake up, did everyone buy the magic powder/he's not waking up scenario? Had anyone seen Lee Nordling's Disney Digest comic story that inspired this gimmick. I've never met Lee, but he came up with the idea of replacing a sleeping garg with his statue. He used Goliath, not Hudson. But it was the same basic principle. I gave the idea to Michael (just that notion) and he ran with it to create this entirely different story? Did anyone see Lee's story and still not get it?

I can't remember why we wound up cutting Banquo & Fleance. Guess we were saving money or time at some stage. So Mac's mansion works on auto-pilot, I guess. Though those cannons still aren't too effective against gargs. And who else would attack?

Back to Brooklyn and Broadway guarding "Hudson". We wanted to keep the focus on Hudson, which is tough, since he's not moving. Brooklyn's worried about the reality of being able to find a cure. Again, we're expressing his leadership tendencies without confirming them since we couldn't guarantee that "Upgrade" would air first.

Then, finally at the end of the act, we reveal the real Hudson. My kids got very excited. Erin said: "The stone guy's not the real him." And Benny chimed in with: "That's the real one!" What were you thinking at this moment?

I even had the odd notion last night that we could have gone the direction of Hudson's "prison" being all in his mind. That the statue was him, and that he couldn't wake up until he escaped this mental/dream prison. Obviously, not the way we went. But it's a cool story idea. Anyone think THAT?

So then we come back from commercial and reveal Xanatos who claims he wants Hudson's skin. The line is said in such a way that we and Hudson are geared to think the worst. Which sets up the fun.

Hudson: "You'll have the devil's own time getting it."

Xanatos: "Gee, that wasn't as hard as you made it sound."

Ah, STONE skin. For the Cauldron of Life. I'm pretty sure the Cauldron was Michael's idea.

Everything has a price. Xanatos just doesn't get that yet.

But Hudson has X's number. They're exchanges throughout this episode are a lot of fun. Like a flip on the Goliath/Renard exchanges in "Outfoxed". But better done, frankly. Less preachy.

These exchanges may have been the inspiration for Hudson and Xanatos killing each other in "Future Tense". Owen's watching and subconsciously realizes that in some way, Hudson and Xanatos make better natural adversaries than Goliath and Xanatos. Maybe.

Hudson: "Growing old terrifies you doesn't it?
Xanatos: "Nothing terrifies me, because nothing's beyond my ability to change." (Who else can lie and tell the truth in the same sentence with this much charm. I'm so proud of this boy.)
X: "What about you? Still wasting your nights in front of the television?" (An only semi-dated reference to both Hudson's origins as the comedic gargoyle Ralph and to the way we occasionally still relegated him to clock tower duty in order to have fewer characters to deal with.)

Note that Xanatos plans on giving Fox immortality as well. He knows he loves her at this point. Wouldn't leave her out.

He doesn't mention Owen though, and in general doesn't treat Owen with his usual respect. Goads him a bit. (Macbeth has already died for me once.) Or rather teases him. He probably figures that Owen can take it. But I think it gets to Owen a bit. Xanatos wasn't expecting Owen to test the Cauldron for him. Owen felt the need to prove something. As he says: "Service is its own reward."

Lots of people watched this episode and e-mailed me that X was a big jerk for treating Owen this way. Particularly at the end of the episode when Xanatos seems completely unfazed by Owen's stone hand. Of course in our minds, this was all a very subtle clue to Owen's true identity. Xanatos and Owen both know that this condition is only as permanent as the Puck chooses to make it.

"Over-sized chamber pot." Heh.

X loves them zingers. He nails Hudson with that "the hardest part was finding a replica for your sword."

I like Goliath's desperation in the scene with him and Elisa. "We need a sorceress. We need Demona. You are a detective."

She doesn't know how to find Demona though.

Meanwhile Mac's back, still using only those same four lines. Anyone catch on here? Or wonder why Mac was working for Xanatos again?

Broadway now knows the expression is "Sitting Ducks" not "Sitting Dorks" as he said it in "Enter Macbeth". A little inside joke.

Okay. Very little.

Erin sees Hudson pick up the stone skin and asks what it is.

Sunrise. At the end of Act Two, Elisa has an oddly timed slow reaction to events, that I wish we had found a way to trim a bit.

Benny was worried: "He's gonna break into pieces and never be alive again."

Erin was a bit more tv-savvy: "He's not going to break into pieces. Or this would be the last [episode]."

I didn't really think anyone would think we were actually going to kill BW here. I think the interest is to wonder over the commercial break exactly how the hell we're going to get out of this.

Beth asked: "How'd Elisa know to shoot at that box? Who came up with that? She clearly didn't like it."

Michael Reaves put in this bit about BW turning to stone in mid-air. And I cut it. That's right. Cut it. I thought that it was too big a deal to fit into this story or at any rate that we could never make the rescue convincing. But ultimately I put it right back in. Michael was right. We needed it here. Everyone worked very hard to make Elisa's save as real as possible. The carpet sign established in advance. The multiple shots it takes her just to hit the rope twice. And Brooklyn and Goliath's exchange:

Brook: "It's a miracle!"
Gol: "A miracle named Elisa."

We're acknowledging how unlikely this is and hoping you'll just share it with us.

I still don't know. It's fun. But I'm not sure we really pulled it off in a convincing way. What did you all think?

"Jalapeña, you're still alive!" Another tier risk. Since I couldn't be sure this would air after "Protection".

X: "Hudson, your bath is ready."

This is another cool exchange. The Price metaphor really comes through here.

The title, I think, was one of mine. Inspired by the Arthur Miller play and the Jim Starlin Graphic Novel of the same name.

Back at the Macbeth battle, here he is again. By this time, the robot thing may be more obvious. Same four lines. We still tried to preserve suspense. Since he's presumably working for Xanatos to distract the Gargs that may explain his behaviour. Anyone who thought he was the real Macbeth right until the moment G gutted him?

Elisa is out of bullets. At the time, I thought that made realistic sense. Always hated guns that seemed to have unlimited bullets. Now it just feels like she was dumb for not reloading.

But one other thing strikes me -- in today's environment, we probably wouldn't have been allowed to let Elisa use a realistic gun at all.

Boom. The Hudson statue is blown to bits. By this time you all knew it wasn't Hudson, but we were hoping that for a split second, the image itself would be shocking enough to make you forget. Just for a second.

I think it worked. Ben needed to reassure himself: "That's okay. It's not the real Hudson." I don't think he would have even bothered to say that, if for a split-second he hadn't thought it was.

Of course, Goliath, who had been on the verge of putting two and two together just before this attack, goes positively medieval on us. Before he aimed for Mac's sky-sled. Now he wants "Gargoyle Justice". He's trying to kill Macbeth. It's just lucky that (a) it was a robot and (b) we had a very understanding S&P executive.

I think the robot's death scene is pretty cool. We had John Rhys-Davies come in just to record five lines. The four that we reprinted over and over and one more 'winding-down' take on "You'll have to do better than that!" It's very cool. With the eye popping out and everything. Nice stuff.

One thing I remember discussing with Michael was the rescue of Hudson. Originally, I think he had Goliath and the boys figure it out and have them show up to get H. But I felt strongly that Hudson had to rescue himself. Prove to all concerned that his age was not the liability that X thought.

This is fun.

And I love that Hudson won't destroy the Cauldron.

Like Xanatos, we think that H is "just full of surprises." But it shouldn't be much of a surprise. I think that was right in character for Hudson.

And I love his parting shot: "What will be your legacy, Xanatos?"

Frakes and Asner were both just amazing in this episode.

X: "Let him go. He's earned it." Of course, that's right in character for X too. No revenge. No jumping up and down and whining.

And hey, now Owen's arm can live as long as the mountain stones.

"How literal-minded." I think that line was one of mine. Not sure. It would probably have helped if I had read those two drafts of the script I posted yesterday. But I didn't have time.

So there's my ramble. Where's yours?


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matt writes...

on Fox and David Xanatos's Marriage certificate/license, who signed as witnesses to their marriage? i mean, traditionally its the Best Man and Maid of Honor, but we can see why that wouldn't work...
did Owen sign it? did Petros?

also, i apologize if this was asked before, but, was Halcyon Renard or Anastasia invited to the wedding? if so, why didn't they come?

Greg responds...

1. Owen, probably.

2. I think not. Partially, because Fox was semi-estranged from her father at least. But MOSTLY because of the instructions Xanatos got from himself. Neither Fox or Xanatos are sentimental enough (at least not that they'd admit) to risk having either of Fox's parents there, when potentially they might interfere.

Response recorded on January 22, 2002

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Anonymous writes...

Puck
Since Puck didn¡¯t know of Demona¡¯s link with MacBeth how did he think she stayed alive for ten centuries?
Does Xanatos trust Puck/Owen entirely?

Greg responds...

It's possible to simply acknowledge ignorance. Speculating on what his incorrect theory might have been seems pointless.

As much as anyone.

Response recorded on November 13, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

How advanced is the Illuminati¡¯s tech? Beyond Xanatos¡¯s tech? Anywhere close to New Olympian tech?

Greg responds...

There's no across the board answer to this. Different groups will be more advanced in different areas.

Response recorded on October 17, 2001

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matt writes...

in "Vows" Xanatos says a line and i'm not sure how/what he means with it?

does he say "Time travels funny that way." meaning that time is traveling funny or does he say "Time travel's funny that way." meaning that time travel itself is funny that way? does that make sense? i keep reading over it and i think it makes sense...

anyway, kinda a pointless question, but one i've been wanting to ask for a while now...

but on a related note, right before Xanatos says that, Goliath says he wishes he could leave Xanatos in that time and Xanatos says "You won't, because you didn't..." how did Xanatos know that? Goliath could've very well left Xanatos there and that may have been what always happened! you could say, Xanatos would've sent a letter to the Illuminati warning himself of his fate or some excuse like that, but as we've seen in "MIA" that letter would've been lost or something and all his ways of warning himself would've fallen through cuz the point is he did end up in Goliaths time and if he warned himself it would have created a paradox! so, there is no way Xanatos would have known for sure that Goliath wouldn't leave him there. was he saying that to Goliath to kinda trick Goliath into thinking that he had to bring him home or something, or was Xanatos just being confident and egotistical of his abilities to have a plan all worked out?

i hope all parts of this post make sense to you. if they don't, i apologize, its late...

Greg responds...

Time travel IS funny that way. Again, I think it's fairly self-evident. Meaning, hey, it's quirky.

It makes sense. It's just ANNOYING!!!

Sorry.

You're logic is flawless. I agree with everything you said.

Let's move on now.

Response recorded on September 11, 2001

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Lord Sloth writes...

Had Elisa ever meet Either Xanatos or Owen berfore awakening part 3? If yes, when?

Greg responds...

No.

Response recorded on September 06, 2001

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Todd Jensen writes...

Since you and Entity recently (as of July 20th) had a brief exchange about Xanatos's characterization, I thought that I'd give a thought of my own about him.

One thing that has occurred to me is that there was an intriguing paradox about Xanatos in his "feud" with the gargoyles. One advantage that Xanatos had over the conventional "cartoon super-villain" was that he was a level-headed, practical man who wasn't interested in revenge or pointless vendettas. And this, on one level, made him potentially a more challenging adversary for the gargoyles. Because as a result, he wasn't likely to get so distracted in carrying out his personal score with the clan that he'd make foolish mistakes which they could take advantage of and thereby win, the way that more conventional "master-villains" in animated series do (and which, elsewhere in "Gargoyles", the Archmage himself fell prey to, when he kept on making strategic and tactical errors in "Avalon" - such as not waiting until dawn to attack or in magically tormenting Goliath when he could just as easily have simply zapped him into a pile of dust). It removed the leading source of "mistakes that antagonists make" which can save the day for the protagonists.

But, ironically enough, this very trait of Xanatos's also may have helped the gargoyles in a way. For, since Xanatos wasn't a revenge-crazed man, he wouldn't be likely to be constantly pursuing the gargoyles obssessively in "conventional cartoon super-villain" style, and indeed, he didn't. He went after them because he had specific plans about what to do with them (using them as his agents for such operations as stealing the disks from Cyberbiotics). But that motive didn't take too long to be discarded, as it became increasingly aware to Xanatos that he couldn't make use of the gargoyles in that way ever again; in fact, I recently noticed, upon examining his actions closer, that in Season Two, despite his continued clashes with the clan, he had stopped attempting to actually capture and dominate them (the one exception being his capture of Hudson in "The Price", and then there was a different reason for that - the need to use Hudson as a guinea pig for the Cauldron of Life). So he no longer had a serious reason for capturing them, and consequently, didn't see the need to make those efforts. The only possible reason left for going after the gargoyles was that of revenge, and that obviously didn't interest him. So he had no reason to pursue them (and indeed, seems to have even been aware, as the ending of "City of Stone" makes clear, that leaving them more or less at liberty could be much more advantageous to him anyway). He could afford to leave them alone.

So I find it an amusing paradox that the very factor which could have made Xanatos a serious threat to the gargoyles actually helped to make him less of a threat than he might have been. He wasn't obssessively pursuing them on the basis of a pointless grudge. He went after them only when he saw a genuine need to, and there was increasingly less reason for him to capture or destroy the whole clan as the series went on (and good reason, on the other hand, to let them be).

Greg responds...

Sound analysis. I've said it before, I think as villains go, David and Demona are too fairly original characters. I'm proud of all my babies, so to speak, but I'm particularly proud of these two and how different they are from each other and yet how they both constantly presented us not merely with 'evil plot of the week' material but with challenging character work. They wrote themselves.

Response recorded on September 06, 2001

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Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...

Now that he has made peace with the Manhattan Clan, would Xanatos have continued to make use of the Steel Clan, or his Steel Clan exo-armor?

Greg responds...

Given appropriate circumstances, I don't see why not.

Response recorded on September 05, 2001


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