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Re-watching Gargoyles for the first time in a decade now that it's on Disney+
I could't find anything in the archive. (I did find the answers about Goliath & Demon's ages/changes tho)
1) How old is David Xanatos ? (I'm guessing 37 in the first ep based off Vows)
2) How old is Fox?
3) How long did they know each other vs how long were they dating ?
4) Did anyone sign a prenup ?
5) How many languages do Fox / David speak?
Honestly, despite how dramatic their lives are, they seem like they have a healthy & strong relationship. They both put all their cards on the table & seem to really love each other. I think they have the most honest relationship & will die old & in-love together.
1. David Xanatos was born in 1955.
2. Janine Renard was born in 1966. Fox was legally "born" in 1991.
3. Uh... they started dating in 1990. Obviously, they met at some point before they started dating, but I don't have an exact date for that.
5. I'm sure Fox speaks many. And David speaks a handful. But I haven't counted.
1. Exactly much money did Xanatos have to pay in order purchase Castle Wyvern? I mean, I know Owen said the cost was astronomical, but I'd still like to know the exact amount.
2. After Xanatos purchased Castle Wyvern, exactly how long did it take for the castle to be rebuilt on top of the Eyrie Building?
3. In part two of "Awakening," there seemed to be a moment where Xanatos appeared to look upset after the sun had set and the storm was occurring. Was the reason he looked upset at that moment was because he thought the castle was not high enough above the clouds and therefore he initially thought the stone sleep curse on the Goliath and his clan was not going to be broken?
1. I dunno.
2. Well... check out the various entries in "This Day In Gargoyles History" in the Garg Universe Chronology section of ASK GREG, and you can do the math yourself.
3. I'm not sure he does look upset.
On the Voices from the Eyrie podcast, you talked about how Xanatos isn't petty, and something funny occurred to me. You know who can be extremely petty? Goliath. For starters, he does have a thirst for revenge. I remember a discussion once in the CR about the characters' vices, and we decided Demona and Goliath have the same one, that being vengence. The difference is that Goliath usually keeps it under wraps, probably because he's able to admit when he's in the wrong and de-escalate.
However, G's pettiness shows up in other ways, too. In Deadly Force, he looks very smug about blowing up Xanatos's fancy guns. He gets jealous and overly protective of both Elisa and Angela at times. But my favorite is in The Edge, where he shouts at Xanatos for a while and then runs off, but not before smashing his street lamp. I don't know if that moments was intended to be funny, but it makes me bust out laughing every time. What did you think you were accomplishing, Goliath? Just venting, I guess. And then it even gets a follow-up in The Cage where Derek knocks Xanatos's desk lamp over. He can also be quite petty, or maybe it was just his cat DNA compelling him to push things off of tables.
Anyway, just a bit of disjointed praise/analysis. Summary: You can make characters more compelling by giving the heroes some villainous traits and the villains some heroic traits. This show is still teaching me stuff a quarter century later.
Thanks. That was the plan. Glad it worked/is working. ;)
Which misconceptions about Captain Atom and his supporting cast annoy you the most?
1. The conflation of Captain Atom with either (a) Doctor Manhattan or (b) Wildfire of the LSH. Cap is neither an empty shell full of energy as Wildfire is, nor does he have the godlike transformation/transmutation powers of Manhattan.
2. The idea that you can blow Cap up and his destruction releases the equivalent of an atom bomb. He's tapped into the quantum flow, but if he had built up enough power from the flow to be able to generate that kind of explosion, the excess energy would have instantly transported him into the future.
3. Anyone who divorces the Captain's story from the love of his children. That's his raison d'Ãªtre. Period. That's not to say he can't participate in an adventure that has nothing to do with his kids. A League mission or what not. But if the story is about him, then everything with him is about his kids. He is a dad first. A super-hero and/or a soldier second/third.
4. Anyone who forgets that Cap is a man out of his time. It's not quite as big a deal as the kid thing. He has adapted. But it's important to remember that the 1960s was not that long ago to him.
5. General Wade Eiling is often mischaracterized from my point of view. This is a man with an agenda, but he's still (in his mind) a patriot. He's got a temper, but he's pragmatic not irrational. He'd never, for example, voluntarily place his brain inside the Shaggy Man. That's just silly to me. He's basically a proto-Xanatos. Wade's not as charming as David. But he's that smart and always armed with contingencies.
6. There are probably a lot of other things, too, if I thought about it too much. But the BIG ONE is...
7. The pronunciation of "Eiling." It's EE-ling, like an electric eel. All those people who pronounce it EYE-ling are just objectively wrong.
1. Do you think Xanatos will ever form a club with Lex Luthor and Norman Osborn? I can't imagine he would find Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark fun for long :)
2. Regarding their wealth do you think Xanatos and Luthor are billionaires and Osborn was a multi millionaire in terms of wealth?
1. I think we touched on this in one or two of the RadioPlays. You can check 'em out on YouTube. There are links in the Gargoyles Wiki.
2. I haven't done the math.
I decided to reread "Clan-Building" as well, after rewatching the first two seasons of "Gargoyles" on DVD, starting with Chapters One and Two ("The Journey)).
The "hunting" analogy continues even past "Hunter's Moon" with Vinnie stating that he hunted a gargoyle down, and Castaway mentioning it (both specifically use the word "hunted").
In my "review comments" on "Hunter's Moon", I noted how it ended, in its final scene at the castle, on what went well for the gargoyles (they're back in the castle, they've made peace with Xanatos, etc.), with their being revealed to the public not mentioned. "The Journey" opens with it being made clear that their problems aren't that over after all, with the public's alarm, the foundation of the Quarrymen, and even Brooklyn raising the question of whether Xanatos really has changed that much. I think his sardonic "Welcome home" establishes the "It's not so happily ever after, after all" tone - in contrast to the way Elisa said "Welcome home" at the very end of "Hunter's Moon".
It was nice to finally be able to do my version of "The Journey" - as opposed to the reedited piece that was used in The Goliath Chronicles.
Rewatched "Future Tense" on DVD today. Things I noticed this time on it.
Bronx looks sad when Hudson's death is revealed; given the bond the two had showed throughout the series, I thought if both fitting and touching (even if it's not really Bronx).
Goliath tells Brooklyn "we thought our odyssey was fated". I thought "odyssey" an appropriate term, since Odysseus spent twenty years away from Ithaca, and Goliath supposedly spent forty years away from Manhattan - and since gargoyles age at half the speed of humans, twenty years for humans would translate to forty years for gargoyles. (I'll admit I'm reaching here - and it feels odd to be linking Goliath to Odysseus when I'd normally think of comparing a different "Gargoyles" character to Odysseus - a fellow Greek trickster....)
The Xanatos Program's intention of using the "World Wide Net" to download itself on every computer marks one of the extremely few occasions I can think of where the Internet was alluded to on "Gargoyles"; the only other example that comes to mind was Sevarius receiving his instructions for "kidnapping" Thailog via "electronic mail". (It also got mentioned in one of the Goliath Chronicles episodes, but that doesn't count.) The near-absence of the Internet from the series certainly makes it appear
technologically dated" from today's perspective.
I think "odyssey" is a particular apt word. And though Goliath and Odysseus don't have a lot of character traits in common, I do think the comparison here was intentional. And they are both big, strong heroes.
The absence of something like the internet is less of a problem for me - in terms of dating the series - than, say, the brick-sized cellphones that Xanatos and others occasionally use.
Rewatched "Cloud Fathers" on DVD yesterday.
This time while watching it, I wondered how Bronx left Beth's apartment. Goliath and Angela glided off without him, and I didn't see him going out the door with the Mazas (which wouldn't have been an option in any case, for obvious reasons).
We get another bit of hunting "verbal imagery", though one of the rare occasions where it's not directed at gargoyles, when Xanatos refers to Coyote the Trickster as his "true quarry".
Coyote the Trickster disappearing when he got the Mazas to look away for a moment reminds me of the tradition about how, if you look away from the faerie-folk for even a moment, they can vanish.
Don't really remember Bronx's exit without rewatching. But mightn't he have just walked down the outer wall of the building.
Rewatched "Bushido" today (I rewatched "Sentinel" yesterday, but had no new thoughts on it).
What most struck me this time around was the parallel to "Awakening", with Taro as like a less-serious version of Xanatos. The two specifics I noticed were the gargoyles' awakening in the theme park, which reminded me of the clan's first awakening in Manhattan, and their wondering if someone had moved the temple, which evoked Xanatos moving the castle to New York.
Those parallels were very intentional.
I've now rewatched "Heritage" and "Kingdom" on DVD. No new thoughts on "Heritage", but I still really enjoy the gargoyles bringing Cagney to the clock tower to look after him in Elisa's absence. I thought it appropriate that it was Broadway who found the kitty (he's the one of the four left behind gargs who's closest to Elisa). And I liked Hudson's rapport with Cagney, while missing Bronx. Including Cagney rubbing affectionately against Hudson - he's got no problems with gargoyles (though Maggie's another story).
I found myself wondering how that containment unit was still functioning after Fang ripped the cables apart to transport it. (To make up for it, I noticed this time around - and really liked - the way they did Talon's voice while he was stuck in there.)
As you pointed out in your ramble, Xanatos's security system does far more damage to the castle than to the gargoyles - I cringe as I see it blowing pieces of the castle apart (small wonder that, by the time of the Double Date story, Owen was getting fed up with all those repairs!) - but Xanatos's lines made up for it.
Xanatos is just so much fun...
Rewatched "Shadows of the Past" today.
Bronx was definitely not enjoying the wild boat ride through the stormy seas - his response put me in mind of the "series Pitch"'s description of him as angst-ridden and not fond of adventures.
I really enjoyed the little animation details in this episode - Elisa cautiously climbing up the path from the shore, grabbing hold of the stone wall at one point to steady herself, or Bronx slipping a bit when he starts climbing up the cliff.
The entrance to the rookery looked different than it did in "Awakening Part One" - apparently those doors and the gargoyle-like face over them were removed by Xanatos to New York, along with the rest of the castle. The depiction of the now castle-less cliff - with a huge gap - brought home just how much of it Mr. X had removed.
I really like the illusory Demona's words to Goliath "Join me in the dark" - it's an illusion of her, of course, but those words capture so well in metaphor what she's been trying to get him to do (when not simply trying to kill him).
This time around, looking at the giant skull-like shape left over from the Archmage's battle with the gargoyles in "Long Way Till Morning", I tried to work out (but wasn't certain) whether it was a real skull (if so, it belonged to something really huge) or just part of the cave sculpted into the likeness of a skull. I'll have to pay closer attention to it, the next time I watch "Long Way Till Morning".
The animation on that episode was just lovely..
Hello again Mr. Weisman, here are 2 separate questions for Gargoyles I have for you if you don't mind!
1. I'm guessing Xanatos had the PACK's Show Produced before the Gargoyles Woke up, but do you know How Long Exactly Xanatos had been putting the PACK Together as Both TV Stars AND as his Mercenaries? a Year? 2 Years? Or More or Less?
2. Is there a Particular reason why there was Never a Real Christmas Episode of Gargoyles, Or was it simply because you just didn't come up with one?
1. At least a year or two. It was a separate project.
2. It wasn't a priority. We had some ideas, but they never quite raised up to being the top ideas in our arsenal at that time.
Rewatched "Vows" today. A few new things that came to me.
I was hesitant about mentioning this, in case it comes across as an idea, but - from the way Goliath addressed Demona as "my angel of the night" at Prince Malcolm's wedding, I wondered if this was the first time he'd called her that.
When Xanatos referred to his getting the old coin that was the foundation of his fortune as "ancient history", I thought, "well, medieval history, to be precise".
I wonder how Prince Malcolm and his court must have perceived the Norman Ambassador's departure - he rides off just before the wedding, not staying to see Princess Elena, whom he'd escorted to the castle, wedded (even though he'd presumably be the closest thing to a representative of her father there). At least it doesn't appear to have caused a diplomatic incident between Scotland and Normandy.
The Archmage addresses Demona as "you stupid beast", continuing the pattern of unfriendly humans using such terms for gargoyles, that I've been paying close attention to this time around.
Brooklyn is the one most vocal about going to Goliath's rescue at the end; I wonder if Demona's involvement and his feelings about her had a lot to do about that.
I still think it's a pity that the original ending got onto the DVD; I hope that the Disney + version uses the corrected ending. (That's the main thing I miss from my old "Gargoyles" tapes.)
<sigh> That damn ending...
Rewatched my DVD of "Eye of the Beholder" today. I didn't find as much new to notice with this one, unfortunately, though I was delighted to note the moment where Xanatos placed his hand on Goliath's shoulder while pleading for his help at the castle - meaning that he had an opportunity (which he used, obviously) to plant that tracking device on him. I'm glad that the episode played fair with that.
Brooklyn's eyepatch as part of his pirate costume seems all the more appropriate after the ending of "Clan-Building".
Goliath echoes "Re-Awakening" when he speaks of Manhattan as "my castle, my city".
Lots of echoes in this one - backwards and forwards...
Rewatched both "Her Brother's Keeper" and "Re-Awakening" today, as part of my "Gargoyles" 25th anniversary review. New thoughts on "Her Brother's Keeper" (ones that came to mind when I rewatched it).
Broadway's concerned remarks about Elisa near the beginning (including "If cops were meant to fly, they'd have wings") indicates that Elisa had shared with them how she was following Xanatos by helicopter before embarking on it.
Derek's remark to Diane that working for Xanatos "could be the start of a whole new career for me" feels all the truer in hindsight - though he obviously wasn't thinking in terms of running an underground sanctuary for Mutates and homeless people when he said it.
I spotted the clock's hands moving at one point in the episode; apparently Lexington had indeed gotten it working again.
But was it telling the correct time?
Just a few questions regarding Gargoyle teeth and dental care:
1: Can they get cavities and chipped/missing teeth, or is that something the stone sleep's healing properties would take care of?
2: If they need any dental care at all, did Xanatos ever arrange a modern dentist for them, and would such care extend their lives the way it would for a Medieval human given such care?
3: Do gargoyles have baby and adult teeth as humans do, one set throughout life, or some other arrangement?
1. All of the above.
2. It hasn't happened as of 1997, anything else would be a spoiler.
2a. Good dental care is important for all.
3. Haven't thought about it, honestly.
To celebrate the 25th anniversary of "Gargoyles", I watched "Awakening" (all five episodes) on DVD yesterday, and thought I'd share a few things I hadn't noticed before (or hadn't noticed enough) that struck my fancy.
1. When Goliath sends the trio and Bronx to the rookery, Bronx looks ashamed of himself - in a way that reminds me of times when dogs I'd known looked guilty over something.
2. When Xanatos tells Owen "Make the offer now" at the ruins of Castle Wyvern, I suddenly wondered whom he bought Castle Wyvern from. I won't ask here - it's obviously a "No spoilers" answer - but I was struck by the fact that this was the first time I wondered that.
3. I spotted what looked like a "foliate head" (or "Green Man"-type head) carved over the archway the gargoyles are standing beneath when the Commandos showed up in the courtyard, and a couple of winged figures on one of the tapestries. (I'll have to check for other unusual and remarkable features of the castle in later episodes, as well.)
4. Many of the human characters repeatedly call the gargoyles "beasts", both in the medieval scenes and the modern (Princess Katharine's protest at allowing beasts in the dining hall, Mary calling the gargoyles beasts, Bruno asking "Where's the beast?" while pursuing Goliath and Elisa).
5. Goliath asks Elisa, when they first meet, "What were you doing in my castle?" Despite Xanatos having bought it, he clearly thinks of it as still his - as if laying pipe for the arc about the gargoyles having to leave the castle and Goliath resisting it.
1. The dogs I've had get that shamed look based on my reprimanding tone more than based on what they've done. As opposed to the cats I've had (and have), who at best stare at me as if to ask, "Are you talking to me?"
2. An interesting question.
3. Art Direction was pretty awesome on the show.
4. All very intentional.
5. We tried to keep each character's POV clear.
One thing that has bugged me for years is the situation between Xanatos and the Mutates, particularly in the case of Derek Maza/Talon. Neither Xanatos nor Sevarius ever faced any major repercussions for what they did in ruining the lives of so many good people. Particularly, David never got any comeuppance for experimenting on Elisaâs brother and using him as a means to exercise control over her. And Sevarius never seems to suffer an overwhelmingly devastating defeat, or get his just desserts. In the Bad Guys SLG comics continuation, Sevariusâ manipulations drives a woman, Tasha, to suicide and he just gets away with that. And while itâs amazing that Talon and Maggie were able to find some measure of happiness, and are starting a family together (as Dr. Sato confirmed Maggie was pregnant), it feels like justice hasnât really been served. One the one hand, in real life bad guys with money do get away with evil deeds all too often and in Gargoyles it makes for compelling, multilayered storytelling to have villains get away with it, but on the other hand it leaves a desire in the viewer to see some balancing of the scales. Itâs satisfying to see characters reap what they sow. My question is: do David Xanatos and Sevarius ever get their comeuppance for the Mutates situation? We saw in the show that Xanatos gets a comeuppance for Thailog, but does he get one for Talon? Does Sevarius get what he deserves for what he did to Tasha? Iâm a huge Gargoyles fan. It was the first show I watched as a kid and itâs still my favorite show today twenty years later. I look forward to rewatching it again when it launches on Disney+, and Iâm hoping, like many other fans, for a continuation on the platform; just like YJ has been continued on DC Universe. You must get this a lot, but thank you for creating a show that is an essential part of my childhood. I also enjoy Spectacular Spider-Man and YJ (canât wait till season 4), but they got nothing on Gargoyles.
Justice has indeed never been served. Whether it will or not in the future is a spoiler, and I've been spoiler-opposed for years now.
1. So I get the qualities Thailog inherited from Goliath and Xanatos but what do you think he got from Sevarius? Sorry if this is obvious but I just don't see it, is that why he might hold Sevarius in less regard than he does his other "fathers"?
2. Do you think Thailog holds Brentwood in more regard because he joined him of his own free will? Will he grant him more responsibilities like Xanatos does with Owen or will he get someone else to fulfill that role?
3. What does Thailog think about immortality? On the one hand I could see him being like Xanatos on the other I could see him adopt Nightstone Unlimited as a pseudo clan and achieve immortality that way maybe both? Great villain by the way so much like Xanatos and Goliath and yet so different at the same time.
1. He's a performer, but, yes, I think he holds Sevarius in less regard than his other fathers.
2. Shari fulfills the Owen role for Thailog. But we'll have to wait and see how Brentwood fares with him.
3. Not sure I'm following your reasoning here.
Hi! English is not my native language, sorry for the mistakes in advance.
1 - How really Xanatos and Demona meet? In the "The Awakening" Xanatos says that he brought her before than the other gargoyles and she woke up there. That it's obviously a lie. At that point, one suposes Xanatos knows more about Demona than he is telling.
2 - Didn't Xanatos knows Demona is already immortal in "City of Stone"? The suposed spell she cast, should stole a minute of life of all citizens watching the TV. If Xanatos knows she is immortal I can't see why Xanatos could think Demona will help him to get more years of life.
Maybe the questions are stupid? I watched the show in my language around three times, and there was some translation mistakes. Can you belive the hints about Owen being Puck was deleted? All of them. I'll rewatch in english someday.
1. It was definitely a lie. But the truth is a spoiler.
2. He believed she was immortal because of the occasional reuse of that spell.
Not stupid questions at all. I'm sorry you had to work so hard to enjoy the show, but I'm glad you did and do.
Do you feel like answering the first two questions now? Or maybe just the second one since it doesn't require research?
At this point, I'd say these are all NO SPOILERS questions.
I was swimming through the S8 archives and noticed a Gargoyles question that's been asked before but never really had a chance to be answered (at least online).
From 2001: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=2177
From 2013: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=19262
Naturally, I'm curious myself now (and curious that I've never really wondered about it before tonight). So how many seasons and/or episodes was The Pack on the air?
Just to be thorough, I double checked the ol' This Day in Gargoyles' Universe History rambles from 2007-2008 and the posts relative to the on-air Pack program only refer to the day the television at the castle began airing episodes of The Pack on all stations all day and night long (http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=644), the day of the live-performance engagement (http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=645), and the aftermath of Wolf & Fox's arrest, leading to the show's cancellation (http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=647) . . . all in the span of four days from November 3rd to November 6th, 1994.
Finally, I've been reading Cary Bates's and your work on The Fall and Rise of Captain Atom and I just finished World of Warcraft: Traveler! I thorougly enjoyed both and I (like so many others) cannot wait for Young Justice season three :D
Thanks for the kind words!
The Pack had at least one season and had begun (at least) its second when the $#!^ hit the fan. I don't have Gargoyles materials here at my WB office, and I just can't remember if they had more than one full season. But I don't think so.
Hello again Mr. Weisman, I Just Got and read the first 6 issues of the 'Gargoyles' Comics, and here's 1 of the Curious Questions I do have related to them, though it's More like a 3 in 1 question if you don't mind
Between "Invitation Only" and "Bash" Why Does Xanatos Invite Margot Yale and her Husband to his castle? Since He surely does know that She's the Assistant District Attorney and the Adviser to the gargoyle taskforce and is Clearly Against the Gargoyles, doesn't he think it would be too risky because of the Rumors circulating that he's "harboring" the gargoyles? And Does Margot only accept the invitation to Find Proof of the rumors?
I don't know if it's just me, but she certainly seems like the kind of dirty D.A who'd take advantage of her position by any means to get what she wants
There's nothing in what we've shown of Margot to indicate that she's dirty or corrupt. So I'd be careful with words like that.
I think the stated reasons given in the conversation between Xanatos and Hacker for inviting anyone would apply double to Margot in her position.
As for her showing up to snoop, clearly she didn't. She showed up to socialize with all the right people, including Judge Roebling and others. Whether or not she suspects Xanatos of harboring Gargoyles, she clearly couldn't imagine that he'd just be letting them walk around his party dressed like characters from Wizard of Oz.
What year was Xanatos born?
I recall you mentioned that the villains (the light) and David Xanatos didn't kill the heroes because they considered that would be a waste.
1.-What could they possible gain gain from keeping them alive? I mean in their reasoning.
Thank you Greg.
It's all right on the screen. Look at all the times that they've USED the heroes. If what you saw in the episodes doesn't convince you, I don't know what I could say here that would.
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