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I have a few questions about the Puck/Owen duality or rather who knows about it.
1. Outside of Goliath's clan living in Manhattan, David Xanatos, Fox, and Alex, how many others know about that duality?
2. Does Thailog know about that duality?
1. Well, Oberon and Titania know. That's all we know for sure.
2. Why would he?
Yay! Question time! I was sad we couldn't post for so long, however working on a comic and having an upcoming television show demands alot of time I'm sure. Having fun?
Anyway, what are your plans for future Gargoyles stories? No! Just kidding!!!
Fox was understandbly bitter towards her mother at the end of The Gathering. Is there a planned reconciliation in the near future, or at least a confrontation? Or is that far off still?
Furthermore, what are Zanatos' feeling about her. I'm sure he harbors some resentment, but as someone who made a living out of schemes and plots, does he have a bit more... understanding (even if not appreciation)?
I am having fun, thanks for asking. I'm really tired though.
I'll leave everyone's feelings up to your interpretation for now. Eventually, we'll get to everything, but I'm trying to avoid scooping myself too much.
Yay the queue is open! I'm happy you're taking questions again. (and I'm of course excited to get #6, which I'll be ordering asap). I hope you don't mind questions unrelated to reviewing the comic... those Children of Oberon always make me so curious.
1. a. So Ragnarok already occured in the Gargoyles Universe. When did it happen? (If you don't want to give a year or decade, can you please say what century it happened in?)
b. Did any of the gods survive Ragnarok, other than Odin? If some did, who?
2. You've also told us that the war between the Titans and Olympians was a real event in the Gargoyles Universe. What happened to the defeated Titans afterwards? (I don't want to assume it is the same as the myths, or to ask more specifically for fear it would be an idea)
3. When was Oberon born? (If you don't want to give the year or decade, please say what century?)
1a. Yes, it occured, but no I'm not going to hint at a date (even a century) at this time.
1b. Yes, a few others did. But I'm not revealing who at this time. (Though the myths themselves are a good hint.)
2. I'm not answering this at this time.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The gargoyles and Elisa return to the Clock Tower, while back at the Eyrie Building, Xanatos and Sevarius, who had only faked his death, discuss the success of their plan. Later that day, the Metropolitan Museum of Art announces a forthcoming new medieval exhibit: "Titania's Treasures". Demona immediately begins planning to steal Titania's Mirror.
Is it just me or are there eire simularities between charecters of Gargoyles and charecters of different shows?
Oberon/Inu no Taisho(Inu Yasha's father)
Owen/Cedric(W.I.T.C.H)(Owen just has shorter hair though)
And Puck/Yue(Card Captor Sakura)
It's really quite freaky.
If you say so.
I'm unfamilar with Inu Yasha's father and Card Captor Sakura. And although I worked on both Owen and Cedric, I helped create the former and didn't have anything to do with the creation of the latter. I suppose I can see some passing similarities, but they don't seem much alike to me.
a follow up on my other question, are there plans for puck in the comic? if so are there plans for oberon and titania as well (besides the queen mab thing).
I'm sure I've answered -- or NOT answered this -- already. Yes, there are plans for EVERYONE eventually.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Owen reveals himself as Puck but also fails to stop Oberon. It is Fox herself who saves the day by revealing a magical power even she did not know she possessed. Goliath convinces Oberon to allow Alexander to stay with his parents. Puck is chosen as Alex's tutor. But his powers are stripped from him save when he is training or protecting the boy, and he is eternally banished from Avalon. He reverts to Owen. Oberon arranges for Manhattan to awaken at dawn, and he and Titania return to Avalon. Xanatos vows to repay Goliath for helping to save Alexander. The gargoyles return to the Clock Tower. The sun rises. They turn to stone. And the city awakens. Elisa goes back to work. Chavez is less than thrilled about her six-month absence. Fortunately for Elisa, Chavez is in the middle of a turf war between the Brod and Dracon organized crime factions. Chavez needs a new face to infiltrate Brod's men. Because Elisa has been "out of town," she's the perfect choice to go undercover. Elisa will pose as "Salli", bringing Brod information about a Dracon chop shop operation being run by Dracon's lieutenant, Glasses.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The Gathering is nearly complete, bringing Odin, Raven, Anubis, the Lady of the Lake, Anansi, Grandmother, Coyote and Nought (among others) back to Avalon. The Weird Sisters drag the Banshee before Oberon, who punishes her for her pride by silencing her voice. Only Titania and Puck remain absent. Oberon decides to seek out Puck himself, and takes Boudicca along to help with the hunt. In Manhattan, Fox gives birth to Alexander Fox Xanatos. The baby is introduced to his grandparents, Petros Xanatos, Halcyon Renard and Anastasia Renard (and also to Halcyon's assistant Preston Vogel). Owen reacts strangely to the news that Anastasia has remarried her first husband. Not long after, Oberon arrives, searching for Puck. But instead he finds Anastasia and reveals that she is in fact Queen Titania. Titania convinces Oberon that Alexander must be taken away to Avalon in order to nurture his magical potential. Xanatos protests - violently - but to no avail. Oberon gives Fox and David an hour to say goodbye to their son. Xanatos confers with Owen, who reveals security measures against Oberon that he has already put into place. Owen then abandons Xanatos without explanation. At the Clock Tower, Hudson, the Trio and Cagney learn about Alexander's birth, and then happily welcome home Bronx, Elisa and Goliath before being introduced to Angela. All three of the Trio are immediately smitten with her. Goliath brings Cagney and Elisa to their loft. When he returns to the Clock Tower, Anastasia is there. She reveals herself as Titania and asks him to help with the peaceful removal of Alexander. Goliath refuses to cooperate with the abduction of Xanatos' son. The hour having expired, Oberon returns to the Eyrie Building to claim Alexander. With amusement, he watches the evacuation of the building's employees. But he's furious when he realizes that Xanatos has activated Owen's force field to keep him out. He puts every mortal in Manhattan (including Elisa, Cagney, Morgan, Travis, Brendan and Margot) into a deep magical sleep. But the energy field protects the Xanatos family inside the Eyrie, and Goliath's clan is immune, thanks to Oberon's promise back on Avalon. Oberon then uses his magic to increase his size until he is literally as tall as the Eyrie itself. David and Petros Xanatos, the Gargoyles, Owen's Iron Clan Robots, Preston Vogel, Halcyon Renard and his cybots all attempt to prevent Oberon from getting to the child. They wound and weaken the giant, reducing him back to normal size, but are unable to stop him. And Renard's Fortress-2 crashes into Central Park.
[Woof! Big day, huh?]
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Oberon defeats Angela, Gabriel and Goliath and returns them to his Palace. But Tom and Katharine use the iron bell to bring Oberon to his knees. An agreement is reached that will allow Tom, Katharine and the Avalon Clan of Gargoyles to remain on the island as Oberon's Honor Guard. Oberon promises to never use his magicks directly against any member of Goliath's clan. Titania and Oberon renew their vows of marriage, and Oberon initiates the Gathering of the Third Race.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath, Angela and Gabriel attempt to confront Oberon, but he is too powerful for them, and they are forced to flee. Meanwhile - working off clues provided by Titania - Tom, Elisa, Katharine and Ophelia begin forging an iron bell to use against Oberon.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The travelers return to Avalon. Minutes later, Lord Oberon, Queen Titania and the Weird Sisters return to their mystic home. Oberon orders the humans and gargoyles off the island, but Titania convinces him to give the mortals a chance. She reduces his power, and he proceeds to hunt Goliath, Gabriel and Angela across the island.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Oberon and the Weird Sisters locate Anastasia Renard, the mortal identity of Titania, Queen of the Third Race. Oberon proposes that he and Titania renew their marriage vows on the eve of the Gathering. She promises to consider it.
Hi Greg. Loving the comics!
I\'d like to know if you\'re gonna take advantage of the revived Gargoyles Universe, in the comics, to tackle the long forgotten matter of Titania\'s whisper to Fox. We don\'t care if it\'s not be mind blowing... just stop torturing us!!! : )
Well, I've been told my quite a few people that they'd rather NOT know. And in any case, I said I would not reveal it until we had a minimum of 500 attendees at a Gathering.
It took me many viewings the "The Gathering" two-parter to appreciate what we are actually being given: finally, this titanic battle between the two men of the Gargoyles universe that are, for all intents and purposes, the masters of their respective domains. They're both accustomed to getting their own way, and what we get to see here is their mutually-reinforced frustration when they both are denied that by each other.
I NEED MORE POWER, SCOTTY
What makes these two such standouts? To a certain degree, I think that power makes us like children. There's a fantastic line from The Wonder Years, when Kevin says something like, "When you're a little kid you're a bit of everything: scientist, philosopher, artist. Sometimes it seems like growing up is giving these things up one at a time." Xanatos is the perfect example of a man who has never had to allow this to happen to himself, and that's why I think it's so much fun that he ended up as a hands-on villain instead of the Lex Luthor, man-behind-the-curtian baddie that you guys originally conceived. Say he always wanted to be an actor as a kid? He gets to ham it up now with Sevarius on a regular basis. He liked pretending to be a mad scientist? These days, he gets to say "It's alive!" and actually mean it. He is not (in his mind at least) bound by the physical laws that govern other men.
IT'S MY GATHERING AND I'LL DO WHAT I WANT
And Oberon, I think, is very similar. As a man who answers to no one, he can bend the rules whenever it suits him--and "interpret" his own laws depending on his mood, perhaps the ultimate in hypocrisy. (Remind anyone else of presidential signing statements?) When you make all the rules, the only person you can really rebel against is yourself. The best parallel I can think of to this kind of defiance, insubordination for its own sake, is in "The Journey"/"Clan-Building: Nightwatch," when Xanatos blows off Daddy Duval's call when an extremely conscious smirk. It is a very simple, childish act of rebellion.
So has Xanatos been humbled by the encounter, having been played to a stalemate by Oberon (or has he?). I suppose we will find out pretty soon whether Xanatos still holds the laws of nature in such contempt, now that he has met his match and in fact had to be bailed out by his mortal foe.
The matchup was so balanced and inevitable, I almost wish that "The Gathering" was longer than just two episodes, so that we had time to get the same kind of glimpse at Xanatos's psyche as we get at Demona's in "City of Stone." "Eye of the Beholder" certainly makes up for anything that there wasn't time for in these 44 minutes, but I'm hoping we get a better look at Xanatos's past at some point in our futures.
In time, we'll get to everything...
But I really liked reading your interpretation above. Very interesting. And pretty darn accurate to my way of thinking.
What years were Titania and Oberon's children (with each other) born?
I'm not answering that at this time.
Also, it may be an immature prejudice, but I'm always going to be less likely to reveal things to an "Anonymous" poster. I know that makes little sense, as I don't know the identities of most screen names, and anyone can post any name with near impugnity anyway... and yet...
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Adam Weishaupt founds the Bavarian Illuminati.
Hakon's spirit reaches out across the globe and senses that his descendant Wolf shares his hatred of Goliath. He summons Wolf to Wyvern Hill in Scotland. Meanwhile, Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx depart from Avalon and arrive in Australia. There they encounter the Matrix phenomena created by a pregnant Fox and her mother Anastasia Renard.
I've got a few oppinions/questions about Oberon. Many fans seem to veiw him as a 'bad guy'. I really don't see him as such. Yeah, he's immature,(the kind of person you don't know wether to laugh at or stranggle at times) but he's a KING. In his mind, he's supposed to get what he wants. For the most part, I often dissagree with his judgement, but I try to look at it from his point of veiw too.
For example, his punishments for the Banshee and Puck (expecialy for Puck) made many fans unhappy with him. I agree, they were harsh.... very harsh. However, I have to remember his feelings of superiority as a lord and the way HE sees it.
I interpreted his POV when punishing the Banshee and Puck to think himself pretty fair. Girl yells a lot, make her shut up. Servant doesn't want to come back to Avalon, fine, banish him. Servant wants to play mortal, fine, take away his powers. Heck, maybe he was event thinking ahead. If he ever desides to change his mind, a harsh punishment might have been better. He could always chalk it it up to being merciful or to have been 'teaching them a lesson'. Or, the subject is so releaved about having the punishment lifted they don't take the time to wonder WHY Oberon changed his mind. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, if you will. That way, Oberon saves face. I supose I should get to the questions now.
1. During the series, will Oberon be given the chance to mature?
2. How does the poor guy keep order in his kingdom? When almost all you subjects are magical, that must be tough. Makes you wonder how he finds time to sleep...
3. You've said Oberon loves his children, does that include Merlin?
1. I like to think all our characters evolve, some for the better, some for the worse.
2. There's no one method. But being Joe Most-Powerful helps a lot.
3. Life is complicated.
Generally, I'd like to say I agree with much of your analysis of the character.
1. Why did the Archmage-Plus specifically pick Macbeth to serve him alongside Demona other than just following the directions of his future self?
2. How did the Archmage intend to deal with the returning Oberon and his entourage? Could he have fought Oberon off if he had succeeded in taking Avalon from the gargoyles?
3. Who was the greater threat in the Avalon Three Parter? The Weird Sisters or the Archmage?
1. Do you think he needed a better reason? (I do, but I may be a touch smarter than he is.)
2. Not sure he knew about Oberon's pending return.
3. Depends on whether you're the Magus or Goliath.
When they speak of Oberon's Law and/or The Law that Cannot Be Broken, does this refer only to the law of non-interference, or in a more general, "his word is law" sense?
Depends on context.
You mentioned in response to a recent question from DPH that Oberon overthrew Queen Mab and married Titania after he fathered Merlin. Did I read this correctly? I certainly found it intriguing, since I'd always assumed that Oberon took over from Mab long before Merlin's birth. (I suppose that this also means, again if I read your response correctly, that Oberon wasn't cheating on Titania after all when he begat Merlin.)
I take it that this also means that Shakespeare's portrayal of Oberon and Titania as a married couple in Theseus's time was an anachronism in the Gargoyles Universe? (Though it's probably no worse than the fact that Bottom and his fellow amateur actors seem more like Elizabethan Englishmen than ancient Athenians.)
Yes, I see the era-combining of Theseus and a married Oberon/Titania as being fairly Xena-esque in its anachronism.
I've got to say, Puck is one of my favorite characters (which is funny, because most of my favorite characters aren't the favorites of other people). Maybe it's because he reminds me of my cat, but it's probebly because he has something I've never been very good at getting: a decent sense of humor. Oberon on the other hand..... It took me a while to warm up to him. I like him now though. Because I'm a person who has been taught humility since the age of seven, I think he's waaaaaay too proud. My mom thinks he's a bit of a baby, but she's amused by it. Maybe as a phycologist, she sees something I don't. The following observations and questions are about the two afore mentioned members of the Third Race. I guess they count as one topic....
I was suprised by Oberon's harsh punishment for Puck in 'The Gathering' (expecialy since HE was the one at fault), but I guess his banishment from Avalon could have been a 'So There' kind of thing. In my mom's oppinion (She's a fan too, by the way) Oberon was like 'Oh, it's BORING, is it? I guess you won't mind never coming back then....' and Puck was like 'Well, actually, I was just sort of..... whining.' Later, I thought I hit the moral of the story and told my mom (who was surprised I hadn't gotten it earlier). Our conversation went something like this:
Me: Mom! I think I got the moral of the story!
Me: Your pride doesn't just hurt you; it hurts the people around you!
Mom: ..... Duh.
Yeah... now for some real questions.
1. You said Oberon probebly still cares for Puck. What about Puck still caring for Oberon? After a punishment like that, (which I figure was done more for Oberon's pride than anything else) I might be a little bitter.
2. If this wasn't fair, why didn't Titania say something? Is she still upset about the donkey thing? I can't say I blame her, but we're talking about a way extream punishment here!
3. Will this state of tension be adressed in future stories?
1. Bitterness and feeling aren't mutually exclusive.
2. If you say so. Titania got her way, largely though.
At Gathering, Part II, when Petros Xanatos shoot and wounded Oberon(deadly, in my opinion) with an iron arrow, why Oberon didn't died? Is he "just" valnerable to iron, or can die by it?
For example, if you cut Oberon's head with an iron sword, would Oberon died?
He can die from prolonged exposure, but assuming the exposure isn't prolonged to the point of death, he can recover by having the exposure "removed". (Think Kryptonite, for lack of a better term.) So the answer to your first question is both.
Having said that, I did feel like we cheated a bit in Gathering II.
And I would think that if you managed to cut off Oberon's head with an iron sword, he would in fact die... assuming he didn't see it coming and removed his own head to dodge the blow.
THE GATHERING, PART TWO
I'm having a difficult time figuring out where I want to start with this episode.
The revelation of "Owen-is-Puck" is, of course, the high point, but I also find myself thinking about the battle with Oberon.
Oberon is, without a doubt, the most powerful adversary the gargoyles have ever had to face--and this time he's at full power! However, I find his more subtle uses of said power to be the most effective. I mean, he became a giant and while that's definitely threatening and awe-inspiring, it didn't help him much in any practical sense. But when he actually calms down ("Anger...clouds my judgment.") he really does become unstoppable. Even drained and withered, he proves more than a match for our heroes. The thing with the cape absolutely rocked, of course, but my favorite trick is when Goliath leaps at Oberon...and goes right through him (a trick that will be repeated in VENDETTAS). Oberon then hurls Goliath with a gesture (and a pretty cool line, "This altercation is OVER."). Even at the end, Fox's magic blast doesn't stop Oberon by overpowering him (in fact, when he comes flying back in he seems about ready to kick everyone's ass and take names--actually, I find his "I...have had...ENOUGH!" kind of funny as well as foreboding). In the end, Oberon isn't really defeated...he just changes his mind (thanks to said magic outburst and some choice words from Goliath).
One thing I really thought about here was that, despite banishing Puck and giving a rather curt/foreboding farewell, Oberon seems willing to let bygones be bygones. Partially due to your thoughts on Oberon, Greg, I've actually started to see the more magnanimous side of Ol' Blue Skin.
Over the years, I've come to think better of Oberon than I did during the initial airings. Now I think he's pretty cool.
This viewing, during the gargoyles's battle with Oberon, I noticed how quickly Lex and Hudson got taken out. Especially Lex, he didn't get off a single attack. At least Hudson got to whack at Oberon's hair with his sword (for all the good that did).
I can see one of those "cartoon" moments you mentioned, with Oberon swatting at the gargoyles like flies. I actually think it works as a "comic relief" moment before Oberon brings the statues to life.
That "stone figures" bit was actually pretty cool. Unfortunately, I liked the guy with the hammer and he destroys himself to take out Broadway (speaking of which, for Broadway that must have hurt!).
Count me as another who loves Xanatos's weak attempt to cover his saving Broadway.
"It's incredible how often that move works." I LOVE inside jokes like that.
The Iron Clan was a nice variation on the Steel Clan. I mean, we (my brother and I) knew they were bulkier than the SC, but only occasionally did I really notice just how much BIGGER they were (during the chase down the side of the Eyrie Building, you see a now human-sized Oberon go by, followed by the Cybots and a gigantic Iron Clan robot). I'm also absurdly pleased by the "launching points" for the Iron Clan...it makes me wonder how much of the buildings surrounding the Eyrie Xanatos owns or rents.
I loved seeing Renard come to the rescue. Renard sounds stronger here, to me, than he has since OUTFOXED. His words aren't as broken apart as they were even in PART ONE. I like this touch. I'm a little sad that the last we see of Renard in this is "I've failed him." It would have been nice if he were a part of the little "victory celebration" at the end. Heck, it would have been nice if Petros could have been a part of it--and his exit wasn't as dignified as Renard's. Petros just got knocked out and forgotten.
I always figured that while the iron harpoon hurt Oberon, the iron bell would basically rip the very fabric of his being apart. After all, at the right pitch, sound can shatter glass.
And finally we come to the big revelation. Any disappointment I felt at my brother being right was curtailed by my delight at this excellent little twist. And Puck's explanation for playing the straight man made perfect sense to me.
When I first saw Vogel, I thought he was just an in-joke, even after he became a character in his own right. Little did I know you guys had strong reasons for his similarity to Owen.
It still surprises me that Puck actually had his creations rough up Oberon. Dang, but the little guy's ballsy.
I just love "Oberon does not compromise...Oberon COMMANDS!" Mostly, I love it for Terrence Mann's reading of it. It's just...wow.
We all kind of figured that Fox would display some magic at the end. It was practically a given. However, Puck's reaction to it (which you've already quoted) is priceless.
I was a bit surprised when Oberon banished Puck. I have to admit, I hadn't expected that. And I actually kind of felt sorry for the little elf afterwards, but...he did kind of ask for it.
I was surprised and pleased when Xanatos thanked the clan like he did. Of course Goliath (ascribing to the "Fool me once..." school of thought) is suspicious. I like the actual sad look on Xanatos's face when Goliath snubs him. But then Goliath smiles as he talks about "the transforming power of a child's love." Xanatos may have been the "main villain" for the first season and most of the second, but already that title doesn't fit him as well as it once did.
Other little things:
-I love Oberon's exasperated "Now what?" when the Air Fortress shows up.
-I also liked seeing Oberon's giant footprints in the street (who's going to explain THAT?).
-You guys had Petros notice Oberon's "shrinkage." Only after we the audience had seen it happen twice. I like that, although the characters notice something quickly, they don't see it the instant it starts to happen.
-Hudson's "You've had quite an influence." I find Ed Asner's reading of that intriguing. I like it. I can't say why...it just struck me.
-After having been a major part of the World Tour, Bronx just sits this one out. He probably missed his soup bone.
I'll admit, I believed Titania when she indicated things had gone according to her plan. I don't know what she whispered to Fox (and have never asked), but I do start to see Fox smiling before the camera cuts away.
And yes, Greg, this is the first, last, and only time that Broadway calls Angela "Angie."
Okay, I think that covers THE GATHERING. Next...
I'm glad you like Oberon. I like him too. You just have to walk a mile in his shoes to begin to understand him. NOTE: I'm not being an apologist for him or approving of everything he did. But I think it's worth trying to understand him, see things from his PoV.
How does Oberon maintain his rule over his Children? So far we've seen that many of them have abilities that could probably kill Oberon like Anubis's ability to manipulate life and death and Puck's ability to rewrite reality or is Oberon just much more powerful than the combined might of his children?
Than the COMBINED might... no, I doubt it. But do you really think that THAT group could agree on a replacement?
And to address your specific examples, Oberon is clearly more potent than Puck. Puck can't rewrite reality. He can simply send a false vision. SO not the same thing.
And we've seen how rigid Anubis is with his powers.
Hi.....uhhhh.........hi again.......I have some more questions about Oberon and Titania...but they refer to the show, not the play. So I put up a separate post so it could go under a separate...thingy.
1. When was the changing boy born in your show? (I KNOW....I used changeling last time!!! I SPELL BAD!!!....or wuz I right last time...? ARG!!!)
2. Is the boy a grown-up now in the show?
3. What did Titania think of the play "A Midsummers Nights Dream?"
4. So....I was wondering......what did Titania whisper to
Fox?.................Uhh......Mr. Weisman.......hello?.....hrm, where did he go?
Oh my, the doorbell! I have company! Yay!
(Opens the door to find Greg Weisman standing at the door with a baseball bat)
Oh my goodness! Its Mr. Weisman at my house! Have you come to tell me what Titania said?
Greg: (lightly tapping the bat up and down on his hand) Yeah....something like that...Are you familiar with the story "The lady, or the Tiger" by Frank R. Stockton?
Greg: Well, its sort of like that.
Greg: And for asking me that question in the first place....(raises the bat)
Uh, oh.....erk!..... :)
Im just being stupid right now. Thanks again.
1. Changeling. And I haven't placed this event on my timeline as yet.
2. I'm not saying.
3. I'm sure when she first saw it she was far from pleased. I like to think that she's matured enough now that she's come to appreciate its finer qualities.
4. <cricket chirp>
Hello! (snickering).......Ah, another glorious day to be alive!!! What an honor to live in such a world we live in!! :)
Well Im back, with a vengeance.
I have to tell you something, when I twas a little girl watching "The Mirror" and hearing (learning) about "A Midsummers Nights Dream", I was curios and whipped out my mothers "Completed works of William Shakspere" book and tried to read it. But.....I was to young (or stupid...?) to understand it, so I tried it again when I was 16 and really enjoyed it! Also, when I bought the second season DVD set and watch "The Mirror", it re-kindled my interest and I re-read it. WHY is I telling U this? Well, I have a question about the story that I still (unfortunately) don't get... :(
1. WHY did Oberon want the changeling boy? And......
2. Why wouldn't Titania let him have the boy? (I know that Titania and the boys mother were friends...is that why?)
I hope that I don't sound too stupid...but I just don't understand that part. Well, that's my Shakspere Q. Have a nice, happy, and all-around good day!
1. I have this theory that the boy was his son. Many scholars theorize that he had a romantic interest in the boy. Others point out that fairy lore is just FILLED with fairies capturing and keeping small children.
2. That's it mostly, I think. I also believe there's a certain perverse satisfaction in keeping something from Oberon that he wants. And like Oberon, there's the fairy tradition of capturing and keeping small children.
Was Merlin's conception/birth intentional on the part of Oberon? What I mean is did Oberon deliberately seek out to have a son who was half mortal in the case of Merlin?
I mostly think he was hot for Merlin's mom.
While utilizing the nifty SEARCH function, I decided to look up responses for "the whisper". I came up with this:
Question received on Mon, August 07, 2000 03:01:14 AM
1.What did titania whisper into fox's ear at he end of the gathering part2
1. Do you think they'll be wondering about this in Ask Greg four years from now?
Response recorded on August 23, 2000
And given the most recent Q&A on that subject was recently posted.... 4+ years after that Q&A was done.... I think your answer holds true.. heh :) We were still wondering that in Ask Greg.. in 2004 :)
The fandom that you didn't anticipate has bugged you about something that you didn't think you would have been bugged about.
Keep it up, it's fun being confused, etc. :D
My pleasure. (Most of the time.)
I was reading your answers to the Oberon/Titanina Family trees (November 2004) and two things caught my attn:
"Lord Oberon married Titania (who became Queen Titania after Mab was overthrown). (Note: Oberon intentionally did not take the title of King. Retaining his "Lord" title is his semi-skewed attempt at being more... egalitarian.) "
-When you say that Titania 'became' queen while Oberon chose not to 'take' the title king- do you mean that Oberon's claim came from Titania and not from Queen Mab or his conquest of her? (Queen Mab is his mother, right?) Is Titania queen or queen consort?
I know in many cultures that seem to have inherited kingship the facts are actually differnt. Take Macbeth, for example: Luach was probably the first son to directly inheret a crown from his father in Scottish history. Macbeth's claim was as good as Duncun Canmore's, but Gruach came from an older line than either. Are Oberon's children similarly not straight forward? With near imortality succession probably doesn't come up all that much anyway.
You also wrote:
"Oberon also has at least two sons by mortal women: Merlin and the changeling boy from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream". "
I cannot believe I didn't notice you saying that before! When I read/saw Midsummer, (one of very few plays I can't get into while reading but love to watch), I always assumed the boy was the mortal child of a beloved, all-to-mortal, devotee of Titania's. The complete disregard for the boy shown by Oberon stealing him away (both physically and magically from Titania's attention) always left Oberon a bit too scummy for me to be fully happy with the 'all the couples were reunited and lived happily ever after." (Though, I'm told if my knowledge of mythology were more complete I would know the royal mortal couple don't end so happily, or at least longly, either.)
If the boy was in fact Oberon's, than the disregard might be feigned as a ploy to get him from Titania. Oberon is immediately made less scummy.
Barage of questions:
1.In the Gargoyles universe, how true to the Shakespeare is the 'true' story?
2.Was Titania aware that the child was her husband's?
If so, was her care for the boy as innocent and real as they seem (to me) in the play?
3.What made Oberon father a child with a worshiper of his wife? Coincidence? Meaness? Was she a worshiper of Titania at the time or did that come after?
4.I think, but do not remember clearly, that the woman did not die in childbirth. What did she die of, and could Oberon have been of help preventing it? Did he try?
(My pet theory is that Titania has tried to help Renayrd out a bit in his illness, but there is only so much she can do without being obvious. And even if she were to use blatant magic, there is still only so much she can do. Medicine and healing, though we take it for granted, is still 'big magic'.)
5. What ever did happen to the changling after the events of the play? Or, if you don't want to go into specifics, is he alive or at least have a unnaturally long life?
Apropo of very little- last summer I caught a rather good preformance of Midsummer in a Shakespeare in the Park(ing Lot). (Not as good as their Richard II that they seemlessly reordered to make the first half as flashbacks during the second.) Uneven. but with real flashes of brillance. Instead of dual roles, they had the traditionally dual roles played by exchangable pairs. The Oberon and Titania I caught had fantastic presence.
Titania is Queen Consort, technically, but it's also a position of not a little authority at the top of the feudal pyramid, answerable ONLY to Oberon... and even he is somewhat reluctant to order his Queen around. Note that when the Weird Sisters report that everyone but Titania and Puck have arrived for the Gathering, Oberon immediately states that Titania may come and go as she pleases.
In any case, Oberon's claim to his throne comes from both being the son of Mab and being the one who took Mab down. It does not come via Titania.
As for your Midsummer Questions, this is a story I hope to tell one day, so I'm going to be stingier...
1. We'll have to see.
2. I prefer to leave the answer to this ambiguous.
3. She was already a worshipper. His motives... are also best left ambiguous for now.
4. I'm not revealing this now.
1) Why did the producers of the show go with iron as the general weakness for Oberon's Children when many of them like Raven, Odin or Anubis were figures from mythologies that didn't see iron as a sort of "god kryptonite". In fact the Fenris wolf from norse mythology was able to snap his iron chains and had to be finally chained with a magical one and many of the gods and demons of the Far East didn't seem to have a problem with iron.
2)In relation to the first question why was Oberon the king and lord of the third race that included such beings as Odin and possibly Zeus and other godhead when in the traditional stories he was just a minor king of the fairies or elves?
In general I'm just rather curious why you put so many of the qualities found in fairies and elves such as Oberon and the iron weakness onto mythological figures such as Odin, Coyote or Anasi which in the end from my point of view kind of diminishes the gods.
1) When combining so many mythologies, certain choices have to be made. Since we were putting a traditional "fairy" figure like Oberon at the top of our feudal pyramid, using iron made sense. I understand your objection, even sympathize with it, but I also don't regret our decision.
2) Well, a short answer is that we wanted to diminish the gods a bit... or put another way, we wanted to create a unifying system for them all. A feudal system. Oberon and Titania got priority, because in general SHAKESPEARE got priority. Titania, as far as I know, is not a traditional figure but an invention of ol' Will's. I've always freely admitted to being a Shakespeare fanatic, so his characters, including Macbeth, Oberon, Titania, Puck, the Weird Sisters, etc. were always going to have featured roles in this series. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference, and I was the guy in charge. That doesn't make me RIGHT in some transcendent sense, just means that I had the right to create the universe I wanted to play in. So I did.
Sorry to ask this again, but, here it goes...
What did Titania whisper to Fox at the end of "The Gathering, Part 2"?
Here are my reasons for you answering this question:
1. It's been long enough. Time to answer this question.
2. It's a burning question that most people want answered.
And another question:
Would what she whispered to Fox be important in a future episode or spin-off?
Your reasoning seems faulty to me.
1. It's almost been too long. I think at this point my answer would be anti-climactic.
2. I know there's a contingent that doesn't want the answer, but just cuz some fans think they want it, doesn't mean they're right to want it.
And in any case, I have promised to reveal the answer when the Gathering has five hundred or more attendees, and not before. So if you really want the answer, help us scare up attendance for Pigeon Forge!
As for your final question, all things come around in Gargoyles.
My first post :)
In "The Gathering, pt. 2", was what Titania whispered to Fox something important to the plot, a future storyline, or a spinoff ("You should have let me have your son, 'cuz he'll be great one day")? Or was it something stupid like "Computers with hundreds of megabytes of RAM are coming soon!" or "You're a cartoon!"? Or was it even worth discussing with you? (Note to everyone reading this - Maybe Greg doesn't even know what it was and this is all a way to make us think he does!)
As I've said many times previous, I DO know and I thought it was clever at the time, but I think at this point the answer would be anti-climactic.
For the record, it was not a non-sequitor.
The other day, I was asked a question about sources for Oberon. I didn't know the answer, but I received this e-mail from site moderator, Todd Jensen:
In "Ask Greg" today, curousity asked you if there were any other sources besides Shakespeare for Oberon as "king of the faries [sic]". You replied, "Not off the top of my head." I hope that I'm not presuming here in e-mailing you, but I have found at least three works beside "A Midsummer Night's Dream" that portray Oberon in that role, both of which are early enough that they count as "primary sources".
One is a late medieval French work about one of Charlemagne's knights, entitled Huon of Bordeaux (written in the 15th century, and translated into English by a certain Lord Berners in 1548 - early enough, in other words, that Shakespeare could have used it as a source for Oberon). In it, Huon befriends Oberon in his adventures, and the latter becomes Huon's guardian, almost a "fairy godfather". (Oberon is portrayed in it as around three feet tall due to a curse placed upon him in his infancy, and as the son of Julius Caesar and Morgan le Fay!) At the end of the story, Oberon even brings Huon to Avalon and formally abdicates in favor of Huon, declaring him ruler over the "faerie-folk"; a bit of trouble develops, however, when King Arthur arrives at the gathering and protests, saying that if any human should be ruling over Avalon, it should be he himself rather than a relative newcomer like Huon. Oberon angrily tells Arthur that he has chosen Huon for his successor, is not going to change his mind, and even threatens to curse Arthur by transforming him into a werewolf if he doesn't accept it. Huon at this point steps in as a peacemaker, to say that he doesn't think that he could rule Avalon on his own and suggests that he and Arthur act as co-rulers. Oberon and Arthur both agree to this, after which Oberon peacefully dies and Arthur and Huon are crowned in his stead.
Another non-Shakespeare "primary source" involving Oberon is Michael Drayton's Nimphidia, which has Oberon ruling over the "fairies" as well - and wedded here to Queen Mab! (According to the research that I've done on fairy mythology, Titania appears to have been Shakespeare's invention as opposed to a pre-existing legendary figure, though Oberon and Puck both predated him.)
A third is Edmund Spenser's The Faerie Queene, which presents Oberon as the former ruler over "Fairyland", now deceased, with his daughter Gloriana - the Faerie Queene of the title - ruling in his stead. (Gloriana is actually an idealized Elizabeth I, meaning that the Oberon of Spenser would be an idealized Henry VIII.) The poem also includes, incidentally, King Arthur, Merlin, and Talos as on-stage characters.
How old is Oberon , now I know you answered this , but I want to find out the exact age [ .p.s. 1603 ]
When did I answer this?
Hello again Greg! You know, this is getting addictive...
A Titania question, one I hope has never been asked, or at least not the way I'll be asking it...
I am, of course, refering to Titania's secret whisper to Fox. Since I got the hint long ago that, barring extreme circumstances, you'll take the content of her secret to your grave, I'll ask you something else.
I know you know what she told Fox. Now, my question, depending on your answer, has the potential of getting people off your back and have them never ask that damn question again.
1. Is Titania's secret to Fox of any value to us? Wait, let me clarify before you say something like "Define value". It has the potential to be a big revelation ala "Luke, I am your father", or it could be something simple of no real value to us fans except to satisfy our curiosity, like "Take care, child".
See, if it's not important for us to know, you can just answer no and be done with that question forever.
But if it IS of value to us, you'll probably just answer something non-commital and we (meaning other fans, not me) will just keep on pestering you forever...
Of course, knowing you, you could just as easily answer "Not saying" either way to keep us confused, since I'm beginning to think you like playing this game of leaving us in the dark, dangling a carrot in front of us to keep us moving foward just a bit further but never letting og of it :)
Anyway, thanks for the answer, no matter what it might be, and take care.
The truth is, as I've mentioned before, is that the question has been built up WAY beyond any potential "value" as you put it. That's not to say it has no value, but I have a strong feeling that the answer would now be anti-climactic. Disappointing. In it's original context, it was probably kinda cool and neat and clever and, above all else, right. But I don't think the answer now lives up to the hype. That's the MAIN reason that I'm still reluctant to reveal it. In your minds, it's still very cool... in the not knowing, it's still very cool. Presented with it as words on a screen... maybe it's just an "eh".
Hello, again. I have a question/observation concerning Oberon. I have noticed an unfortunate trend among fans of the series (particularly in fanfiction, although I understand you don't read such material) to present Oberon in an unfavorable light. Even The Gargoyles Saga, which normally boasts excellent characterization, consistently depicts Oberon in a manner which I feel is grossly unfair. I liked Oberon. I thought that he was stern, but fair, and was also very concerned with the proper use of power. Granted, he possessed character flaws. But he banished his Children from Avalon, forcing them to live amongst mortals, because he felt that they didn't have proper respect for the rights of mortals. His Law is also shown in an unfair light. Most fans seem to like to show him as an uncaring, distant figure, who could care less if the bulk of humanity simply died off. I interpret his Law differently, though. Perhaps its simply because I am an inveterate comic book fan, and the topic has been frequently used in comic books. But I believe that Oberon forbids direct magical intervention, even to help mortals, because he understands that mortals must stand on their own. He understands that, if he were to direct his Children to use their powers to shelter and care for mortals, we would come to rely on them for everything, even the problems that we could solve on our own. Our potential would be stunted. We would eventually become little better than pets for the Children of Oberon. Obviously, he doesn't mind non-magical intervention. Puck interferes a great deal, but as Owen, without magic. Grandmother has seemingly guided and advised mortals for centuries. Many of the Children (including Oberon himself) have sired or beared Half-Fae children with mortals. His emphasis seems to be on ensuring that mortals don't become reliant on the Children of Oberon, that we feed our own poor, treat our own sick and wounded, fight our own battles. In short, that we make our own mistakes and stand on our own two feet. Was I off the mark?
No. But you're comparing your interpretation to the interpretations of other fans -- interpretations that I have not seen.
In general terms -- very general terms -- I agree with you. But Oberon is also dangerous and powerful and subject to interpreting his OWN laws his own way. I don't think of him in a negative light. But I also don't think he's entirely benign either.
Greg, I absolutely love Gargoyles, almost more than any other cartoon, ever (I'm sure that's been said before, but every fan should say it). I have some ?s for you, but I would like to apologize first if they have been asked previously, as I have not got a chance to read all the FAQ's. I would appreciate it if you could email me (firstname.lastname@example.org) your response, when you get to it. If you prefer to only post them, then I understand. You could say that my ?s may not be directly related, but they are both concerning Goliath's confusion about something.
1) In the beginning of "City of Stone: Part One", who was the Weird Sister referring to when she told Goliath that when he "...forgets that every life is precious..." he is just like "her"? I believe Goliath points to the girl he calls a "terrorist", but the Weird Sister was referring to someone else...Who? (Right after Goliath says this, the 3 sisters disappear; not that you don't know that, but for quick reference)
2) I won't torture you with everyone else's ? in "Ill met by moonlight," but I would like to know something else: At the end of the episode, what favor was Titania referring to when she thanks Goliath for a "favor rendered"?
1. They were referring to Demona, who is the next person we see.
2. For saving her (and everyone) in "Walkabout".
I noticed in one of your answers to the question "Is Puck the biological son of Oberon" you stated that not only is that incorrect, but you also did not understand why we could think that. I think I have an answer to that. One they look incrediably simaliar, hair color, and facial features wise. Two, in several legands (I really do my homework.) Puck was the biological son of Oberon, and a mortal woman. three, when oberon banished Puck, there was a fleeting moment of sadness present on Oberons face. (Though, that might suggest that Obie was on Titania's plot. Mabye not though.)
Just thought you like to know.
I think you're reading in the "moment of sadness".
You may have a point on the resemblance, though I think it's pretty superficial. I mean if Puck had blue skin...
I'm unfamiliar with the legends you speak of. What are your sources?
But, in any case, I'll grant that the audience had reasons to believe they might be biologically related. But they're not. Or in any case, not closely.
I've asked you what Titania told Fox, but I know now that you're probably only gonna answer it to your kids on your deathbed. So, I have a somewhat related question.
Was there actually something in the script? So did Kate Mulgrew actually say something? Was there something to whisper? Or was it just "Pst pst pst" so that you could establish some mystery for all those characters.
Now, the problem is, if the answer is no, I highly doubt you'll tell us, to keep the mystery that scene was meant to establish. But, if it is, you might tell us just "yes." But, having just written this, you might not tell us one way or another even if it is yes. I wonder, then, why I wrote this.
There was nothing specific written in the script.
Can you give me a family tree of oberon and titiania's children across the centuries? I can't figure out if Puck is Alexnder Xanatos is pucks nephew or not. I would really like to know about Puck's/owen's secret love that you mentioned earlier too.
I'm not going to reveal anything new at this time, but I will summarize what I've already revealed:
Lord Oberon is the son of Queen Mab.
Lord Oberon married Titania (who became Queen Titania after Mab was overthrown). (Note: Oberon intentionally did not take the title of King. Retaining his "Lord" title is his semi-skewed attempt at being more... egalitarian.)
Oberon and Titania have two children together: one male and one female. I know exactly who they are, but I'm keeping their identities and personas secret for the time being.
Oberon also has at least two sons by mortal women: Merlin and the changeling boy from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream".
Titania has one child with the mortal Halcyon Renard. This is Janine Renard, a.k.a. Fox.
Fox married David Xanatos. They have one child: Alexander Fox Xanatos.
Puck, a.k.a. Owen Burnett, is not directly related to ANY of these individuals.
Hi Mr. Weisman, it's Billy. Man I couldn't believe my eyes
when my first question got posted with my name atop being ready to be answered back by someone like you. I've seen your name by a lot of cartoons so I've known you a lot but boy did I ever think that you and I could get in contact so easily! I know it must be a little strenuous to answer all of these questions on a show that has passed away for quite a while and you'd have to consider your question subscribers your buddies. Well Greg, I want to... I want to be your buddy! I know I might be a little crazy but you are the bomb! I'm glad you can recieve this note.
Oh Greg, if I got too hyper when I asked you my first question which was about a hopeful future for Lexington I'm sorry. I get so much into him a lot when I think about the show. He was the reason I got back into this show because I saw a ToonDisney late night lineup commercial and he looked like a nice guy and all. I still like him as a matter of fact and sometimes I think he's the type of person I've dreamed of being (not counting that nightmarish future guy I mean.) Don't take about what I said about that episode personally I mean it's a little OK. There is something about it that mesmerizes me real good.
I watched this cartoon with my dad when I was a kid on FOX at 6:30 A.M. way back when. I never really paid attention to it however because, well I don't know, I guess I wasn't seeming fit for it. But sometime last year when I heard about this show on ToonDisney I decided to give it a shot. So one night when I stayed up late, I checked it out and Leader of the Pack was on halfway through and guess who stars in that episode... Lexington!
Well Greg questions are why you're here so here I go:
1) I used to think Oberon and Titania were aliens but are they fays like Puck, how many powers do they have, and what are their occupations?
2) Are the Weird Sisters good guys, bad guys, or in between helpers?
Thanks for your time Greg! I hope we'll be calling each other buds soon.
1. They have magic. What they can do with that magic is limited largely by their store of it and by their imaginations and by the Laws of Oberon himself. As for their occupations, they are the Lord and Lady of Avalon. In her human guise as Anastasia Renard, Titania is also a scientist, but I don't think she's employed by anyone at the moment.
2. All of the above. Check out their archives in ASK GREG for more info.
And thanks for your time, Billy. I hope you're still around to read these answers two years later.
What did Titania say to Fox at the end of The Gathering?
If you dont answer this(like you dont to all the other people who ask you this)I will assume that you dont even know the answer.
Assume what you want. I maintain that I know MY answer. But that at this point, I've come to believe that no answer I could supply could live up to the hype.
You are NEVER going to tell us what Titania said to Fox at the end of the episode i cant recall he name of?
It was "The Gathering, Part Two".
Puck looks too much like Oberon to not be his child, is it possible Puck is related to Oberon if not his biological son?
I don't see much resemblance, frankly. Which is not to say that they may not be distantly related. But they're definitely NOT father and son, nor do I see a familial relationship playing any role in their dynamic.
What exactly did Titania whisper to Fox in that episode where Oberon was going King Kong on Xanatos's building?
I'm not telling. I think at the last Gathering I set some condition for me to reveal this tidbit. Now I can't remember what the condition was. But I think I'll remember it when I hear it, so don't try to fool me.
Did you make up Oberon, or is he apart of real legend and myth.
He's part of real myth & legend, and more importantly Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream".
You once indicated (in the ramble on "The Edge") that part of the purpose (from the "behind-the-scenes/production-team" point of view) for Oberon and Titania's attempt to kidnap Alex in "The Gathering" was to give Xanatos a bit of a come-uppance.
Was your plan for Queen Mab to someday escape from her prison designed, in part, to similarly give Oberon and Titania a bit of a come-uppance?
Did I use the words "come-uppance" or are you paraphrasing?
Mab is, frankly, too big a threat to simply act as a come-uppance. Certainly her "re-" appearance would serve to illustrate new shades of Oberon (and to a lesser extent Titania) as well as explain (at least in part) why Oberon is the way he is.
Do Titania and Oberon's two children in any of the traditional stories about the fay?
It depends what you consider fay-canon, I guess.
what are the roles of puck and oberon in a midsummers night dream
In the Shakespeare play, Oberon is King of the Fairies and Puck is his servant.
Hey Greg, quick question…
Has either of Oberon's and Titania's biological children appeared in any of Shakespeare's plays? (Why didn't I think of this years ago?)
P.S. I mean the children they had together.
I'm not saying.