A Station Eight Fan Web Site

Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending July 18, 2005

Index : Hide Images

Greg Bishansky >We got to see a few more images when they found out we where promoting the gargoyle con. Well that and they liked the costume ;-) the funniest thing about the whole costume deal...In the sales pavillon where they broadcast it for people who could not get in... it was one of the most cheered for acts. I found that funny seeing as I could'nt hear anything on stage let alone see very well.

I'll try to bring a tape of that act with me to the gathering. They gave eveyrone in it passes to get tapes of the show.

Must continue to download pics from camera. I'll try to post most of them tonight.

Shara Mordinae - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]

Shara> Really? I've only seen the one pic that I linked here earlier (photoed by Jen Anderson).

I look forward to seeing your photos.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Clicky, clicky.]
Damn, when Wolverine's face grows back, he's going to be pissed. - Spider-Man, New Avengers #7

Hehe Back from comic con.

I attended the pannel and it was great. Only got to see some of it because the gargoyle costume was entered in the masqurade. Which went over well. Lots of advertizing for the gathering with that costume at comic con.

We gave slave labor some of the stickers to pass out at comic con which they Gave us happy hugs and such and started to pass them out promoting the gathering.

Saw a book of the comic art for the new gargoyles comic Which I will post later for everyone once I download the images off my camera. The art looks just like the cartoon.

Anyone who wants more pictures etc of the sticker pass out or the slave labor comics etc give me an email as I am really tired and only post maybe 2 tonight as I unpack. I will try to post more later.

Let me start downloading stuff from my camera to show you.

Shara Mordinae - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]

TODD> Well, you can always get a subscription. Midtown Comics ships world wide. So if you have a credit or debit card, you can do that. I'll get you more info as we get closer to the release date.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Clicky, clicky.]
Damn, when Wolverine's face grows back, he's going to be pissed. - Spider-Man, New Avengers #7

I wonder if the "Clan Building" arc will contain anything involving Brooklyn's Timedancer adventure (focusing on his return with Katana, Nashville, Tachi, and Fu-Dog). The addition of four new members to the clan would definitely count as "clan building", I'd say - though I suspect that Greg will take care to precede that with a few stories that will introduce us to the original gargoyles from the series before adding the new characters in.

It seems that Disney's definitely giving "Gargoyles" the go-ahead in its comic book form. I'm glad of that, and I'll have to find a way of making certain that I can subscribe to it. Too bad that there aren't any comics stores within walking distance of my apartment at present.

Re "Wonderland": I was amused that they're actually turning the mere name of Mary Ann into an actual character. (Almost shades of Greg Weisman deciding to bring the Emir on-stage in "Grief" at last!) Speaking of Wonderland, I've an oddball theory relating to "Alice in Wonderland" (to be precise, the original book by Lewis Carroll). I've sometimes wondered if the Queen of Hearts was a take-off on Carroll's part of Margaret of Anjou, Henry VI's queen, from both 15th century English history and Shakespeare's Wars of the Roses plays. Both queens are viragoes married to meek husbands, always keen on chopping off people's heads - but the thing that really makes me think of Margaret is the Queen of Hearts having a penchant for red roses - and trouble erupting when the gardeners plant a bush of white roses by mistake. (For that matter, after I'd had this idea, I discovered that somebody else had theorized that the baby who turns into a pig was really Carroll's take on Richard III - the pig being really the White Boar, Richard's heraldic badge.)

Returning to the Gargoyles comic - I'm glad that Greg isn't out to make it too mature (and certainly don't think that he needs to to tell some great stories). I'm looking forward to seeing it when it comes out.

Todd Jensen

mmmm... Goliath's arms.
dudette

The new art looks pretty cool, though I admit more angular than I usually like. Still, it's new art!
Greg's comment on maturity level: I like it. There isn't really a need to push the maturity level of the comic up much more than the series already is. If you push it too much, you can lose as much as you can gain. Besides, I'd like to introduce it to my little cousins (7,8, and 13) at some point, if they show any interest.
Other SLG Disney titles: looks interesting. When I'd read the CSN article a few weeks ago, I got interested in the Haunted Mansion title. Hopefully they'll do a much better mix of humor and horror that was in the ride (which I admit I've never been on... :p ) than the movie did. I'm curious on their take on the Bride, because the French version had an actual story involved. Not too interested in Wonderland, but the art-style seen in the Newsrama article implies a more gothic mix to the Disney style; Tron I know little about, so little interest. Still, I hope all the tiles go well.

Asatira

Okay, so Newsarama finally has an article up. Quite good.

And btw, before any conclusions are drawn, while it doesn't say so in this article, people who were at the panel, like IRC Goliath have said that Greg intends to keep "The Journey" as canon.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Clicky, clicky.]
Damn, when Wolverine's face grows back, he's going to be pissed. - Spider-Man, New Avengers #7

I thought that looked like Greg Guler's work.

10 days left until I get on a plane for the west coast.
12 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!

Patrick
"Improvisation is a parlor trick. Anyone can do it." - Willy Wonka

Greg Guler drew that Goliath/Elisa pic. He was lead character designer on the show.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Clicky, clicky.]
Damn, when Wolverine's face grows back, he's going to be pissed. - Spider-Man, New Avengers #7

Hello,

I have a limited edition lithograph of Thomas Blackshear's original painting "Goliath Surveys His Domain" This edition is limited to a hand-numbered quantity of 1000, with the original plates and all additional proofs destroyed. The lithograph was created using a special custom ink process and a 100% rag content acid-free museum quality stock. The lithograph is numbered and signed by the artist Thomas Blackshear. (I am copying this information from the certificate that came with the lithograph when sent to me from Buena Vista Television in 1994.)

If you might know someone that might be interested in this piece please pass this email along. I am not a dealer or collector but this was given to me when I worked at a television station and I've held onto it ever since. The poster is in perfect condition and has been framed and hung out of direct light since I got it in October 1994.

Thanks and feel free to email me with any questions-

Sincerely,
Marc

Marc - [morwulf@aol.com]
Marc Morrison

I don't mind Goliath's arms. To me, they don't that much bigger than they were in the show. I think it's just that the artist has them more defined. He's a more toned Goliath. :)

Any idea whose art that is? If I had to guess, it looks like Randy Green's (second major artist on Witchblade...had a creator-owned project that I believe flopped, called Dollz). So many comic book artists seem to draw in that dynamic melding-of-manga-and-american style though, it's hard to differentiate some times.

That's awesome news about Keith David returning to Spawn. I don't see it brought up often here--are many of this board's members fans? I've never read a single issue of the comic and I enjoyed the live-action film the first time as a decent distraction, realized it didn't hold up very well on second viewing. The HBO series though was my first "adult" cartoon and TV series I saw. When the PS2 came out I remember buying the boxed set as my first TV-show-on-DVD. I still think the first season is one of the best of any animated series I've seen, but the second season decreases in quality and that TV-movie they tried to pass off as Season 3 was just horrible. It's interesting that they're staying in-continuity with that incarnation of the franchise, but fast-forwarding in time seven years and cutting out enough characters that it'll probably be unrecognizable. I doubt they'll be picking up any dangling plot threads. I'll be happy if it at least retains (and improves on?) the look of the original HBO series. Looking forward to seeing it eventually. Whoever picks it up, Showtime, HBO, FX, or another pay-cable outlet that can air adult material, I'll probably have to wait for it in Canada, unless The Movie Network picks it up. At least it's a sure thing that the voice acting will once again rock.

Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]

And on that note, I've finally gotten around to finishing that Eye of Odin mesh I've been working off and on for the past few months on. ;) (click my name for a final render) What took so long was getting that damned center bit to look right. I realize that the strap doesn't look exactly like it does in some episodes, but since it was never really consistant, I decided to use a little artistic license and make my own.
Vertigo1 - [md2389@gmail.com]
"If there is to be a hoe down, let it be a stripper that stumbles!" - Roy, Father of the Pride

Greg> Goliath seems to have bulked up in the last ten years, I don't much care for the new tree trunk limbs. Elisa looks good, though...
Gantros
"As with all things, darkness falls for thee..."

Oh, and Todd you should thank CrzyDemona for taking the picture.

The panel ended almost an hour ago, so hopefully we'll see news soon.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Clicky, clicky.]
Damn, when Wolverine's face grows back, he's going to be pissed. - Spider-Man, New Avengers #7

Todd> Another reason is that it's easier to give comic characters a full wardrobe as it's expensive to keep changing characters' design models for animation. Either way, I'm very happy
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Clicky, clicky.]
Damn, when Wolverine's face grows back, he's going to be pissed. - Spider-Man, New Avengers #7

There was a big Harry Potter party last night in my part of St. Louis (at the local bookstore just a few blocks away from my apartment), but I'm too much of an "early-to-bed" person to attend it (it began at 9 p.m., and lasted until 2 a.m.). I simply bought my copy around noon there today. Over halfway through it at present and enjoying it (this isn't a true spoiler-related comment, but in the part that I'm currently reading, the "Elf Tails" chapter, there are what I think could be references to both "The Hobbit" and "The Goon Show" in Luna's Quidditch commentary).

I'd noted Greg's warning that if sales for Season Two Part One aren't that good, there won't be any more DVDs to complete the second season. That gives us an incentive to all go out and buy the next Gargoyles DVD when it comes out; keep the sales up. (I'm certainly glad that I went out and bought the Season One DVD even before I had a DVD player - though I've since bought one.)

JURGAN - I think that the similarity between Duncan's moves against Macbeth and Brutus and Cassius's assassination of Caesar is more a general concept of "the dire future caused by your attempt to prevent it". It happens in a lot of other places, for example; in the Book of Genesis, for example, the early humans build the Tower of Babel as a means of anchoring them together, but their construction motivates God to scatter them across the Earth, instead. And then there's the case of Oedipus, who learns that he's going to kill his father and marry his mother, runs away from home to keep from doing those deeds, and winds up doing them as a result. (An additional piece of irony is that, in Shakespeare's play, after Brutus makes his speech over how he killed Caesar to stop him from becoming a king, the Romans cheer him and one of them cries "Let him be Caesar!")

BISHANSKY - Thanks for posting that link to the art. I wonder if that's intended as an adaptation of "The Journey"; it'd certainly explain why Elisa's wearing a different outfit rather than her familiar red jacket, blue jeans, and black shirt. (Another possible reason could be to appeal to the male readers.)

Watched my tape of "City of Stone Part Four" this afternoon. Some comments on it.

The music playing during the battles between Macbeth and Demona on the one hand, and Canmore and the English on the other, makes the whole sequence remind me of the movie "Excalibur".

When Bodhe talks about how Macbeth could solve the whole problem with the English invasion by getting rid of Demona and her clan, I find myself strongly suspecting that disowning the gargoyles wouldn't have done any good at all. The English continue the war even after Demona and her clan abandon Macbeth; if they were really fighting only to get rid of Macbeth, they'd have lost interest in him the moment that the gargoyles took flight - and wouldn't have stayed around to help Canmore defeat Luach, either. (Of course, in real history - and Shakespeare's play, for that matter - the English had plenty of other reasons to help out Canmore, that had nothing to do with gargoyles.) At most, it could have provided them with a propaganda disadvantage - they could no longer cast their war in terms of a crusade to rid the world of a race of bat-winged demons - but they could always claim that they were doing it to restore Canmore to his usurped throne. (Not that Macbeth seems to have known that Canmore was involved until he unhooded himself.)

Canmore "slays" Macbeth here, but he will, of course, lose all credit for his deed in the centuries to come; Shakespeare, at least, gives the credit to Macduff instead (as presumably did his sources; I'll have to look up on that). I suspect that Canmore had to leave out the details of the killing when he reported it afterwards, simply because of how he slew Macbeth: stabbing him in the back while the latter was arguing with Demona. Such a deed would not have gone down well with his contemporaries; it was a ruthless age, yes, but it was also one that believed in a certain code of warfare, which meant that you slay your enemies in fair fight and that striking them from behind is only for cowards. Canmore would have had to alter his account of how he "slew" Macbeth considerably to keep from losing the respect of his followers and allies. Whether that helped bring about the Macduff story in the Gargoyles Universe, only Greg Weisman can say. (It's interesting to note, of course, that the core element of the Macduff story in Shakespeare's version is that "none of woman born" can kill Macbeth. Remember that Demona is no more "of woman born" than Shakespeare's Macduff - being hatched from an egg, of course, is even more of a loophole than being "from his mother's womb untimely ripped". Could Macbeth himself have had anything to do with that story in the Gargoyles Universe? Certainly, only he, Demona, and the Weird Sisters knew the details, and Macbeth's the only one who'd be likely to share them - in disguised form - of course, with anybody. And we know that, in Greg's Masterplan, Macbeth was friends with Shakespeare.)

No trace of Birnam Wood here, of course, though it's amusing to note that John Rhys-Davies did the voice of Treebeard in "The Lord of the Rings" movies. (The Ents were partly inspired by Tolkien's idea of how Shakespeare *should* have done Birnam Wood marching on Dunsinane.)

In actual history, Canmore was slain by the English - though not his former allies from his overthrow of Macbeth, but the Normans who had taken over from them. Legend has it that he died when a Norman knight thrust his lance into Canmore's eye, and that the knight received the nickname of "Pierce-eye" as a result, which later on was transformed into "Percy", producing a leading aristocratic family which produced Hotspur from "Henry IV Part One", among its best-known members. This is folk-etymology (the name actually derived from a place-name in Normandy), but I wonder if, in the Gargoyles Universe, Canmore actually did die from a pierced eye - but not from a human. It would certainly explain why the Hunters got started up again.

The extent of Demona's treachery and how it has affected the human view of gargoyles can be seen in how Gruoch speaks to Demona. A gentle and sweet figure (hard to believe that she's supposed to be the original of Lady Macbeth), she calls gargoyles "treacherous", rather than just applying the word to Demona alone.

Macbeth and Gruoch's final parting is very moving.

An amusing remark in the present-day part of the story: Demona says "Take off that mask. You're not fooling anyone, Macbeth." He's certainly not fooling anyone in the audience; the mere outfit of the modern-day Hunter (as well as the subject of the flashbacks, and even the shots of Macbeth's monitoring room and aircraft) makes it extremely obvious whom we're dealing with here.

I also get a kick out of the scene where Goliath urges Macbeth and Demona to stop fighting each other, and they promptly both attack him simultaneously. Sometimes it just doesn't pay to be a mediator.

So much has been written about the Weird Sisters' intervention and questioning of Macbeth and Demona (leading up to Demona's admission of what the access code is), that I need write nothing more about it.

And we end with Goliath and his clan leaving on reasonably good terms with Xanatos (though with the indication that they're still at odds), with Xanatos commenting on why he'd never killed the gargoyles; they were too useful to have around. To which Goliath replies, in a rare moment of wryness, "As do you - occasionally."

A great ending to a great multi-parter.

Todd Jensen

Hear ye, hear ye. For I come bearing news. Actually, I come bearing someone else's news.

Our good CrzyDemona has photographed the first new official Gargoyles art in years from the Slave Labor booth.

Click my name to see it.

Greg Bishansky
Damn, when Wolverine's face grows back, he's going to be pissed. - Spider-Man, New Avengers #7

CKayote> It's not a matter of having the time, it's a matter of being able to afford staying that extra night and getting tickets home. It'll be another $50 to keep the room, and around $200 to get a new ticket for the following evening home.
Gantros
"As with all things, darkness falls for thee..."

Some Keith David news, just in case anyone is interested. Seems he will be voicing the new Spawn animated series, which will likely end up on HBO. Click my name for the full article.
mascubanana - [am2469@barnard.edu]
growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional

My mistake- those aren't the only episodes thus far, but they're the ones I've seen. But there are a lot of reruns.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
Note well an endlessness of little dogs, receding through progressive diminution to a revelation of the ultimate truth... Beyond the last visible dog. -Russell Hoban, A Mouse and His Child

"The only reality show idea I ever thought up that I would actually watch would be something like Big Brother. Each person would have to be set in their beliefs, but still open minded. No out right haters.
Cast would include a

Christian
Jew
Muslim
Wiccan
Buddist
Mormon
Jehovah Witness
Athiest

Give or take. Doesn't have to be a deffintive list. But just looking at the most major religions on the USA and world.
Hence why I said, firm in belief, but open minded. I wouldn't want it to turn into something preachy nor hateful. I have researched several religions and found so many were extreemly similar. It would be nice to have a show about real people who maybe find that out on their own as well."

Siren: I would recommend the show "30 Days" by Morgan Spurlock (Wednesday, 10:00 PM, on FX). There've been three episodes so far, and it's a pretty good show. The premise is that a person with certain prejudices about a given group will go live as a member of that group for thirty days. In the first episode, a Christian from West Virginia goes to live in a Muslim neighborhood with a Muslim family- not only live there, but he has to answer the calls to prayer and grow a beard, so he appears to be a Muslim. In the second, a conservative straight Christian has to go live with a gay man in San Francisco. In the third, two urban livers go to live in a self-sustained ecologically friendly community. This isn't exactly the premise you were talking about, but it pairs people who are vastly different and forces them to learn about each other. What makes it work for me is that the people aren't stereotypes, like you might expect on reality TV. In the episode with gay people, they were not flaming queens (see Will & Grace- or don't, please), but normal people who happened to be gay. I'd highly recommend the show. Click on my name for more.

On another note, while we're talking about City of Stone (my favorite eps. as well), something just occurred to me. As far as Shakespeare's plays are concerned, has anyone considered that Duncan's actions are closer to Brutus and Cassius in Julius Caesar than anyone in Macbeth? The great irony in Julius Caesar is that Brutus and Cassius were doing everything they could to prevent Caesar from becoming emperor, yet their actions brought the people against them so strongly that it allowed Augustus to become emperor. Likewise, Duncan is constantly afraid that Macbeth will become king, yet every step he takes to prevent it just brings his fear closer to reality. Just an interesting connection I just thought of- don't know if there's any significance to it.

Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
Note well an endlessness of little dogs, receding through progressive diminution to a revelation of the ultimate truth... Beyond the last visible dog. -Russell Hoban, A Mouse and His Child

One of Greg's latest responses (click name) doesn't really fill me with extreme confidence.

Guess we gotta do more to premote the fandom :/

Chameleongirl
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid

Let's see... it's just past 7:30 AM on the east coast. That means the Potterheads out here are all passed out after having stayed up all night to read the books that they camped out to get at 12:01 AM, while the Potterheads on the west coast are red-eyed and only about halfway done.

Aren't fanish addictions fun? ;)

11 days left until I get on a plane for the west coast.
13 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!

Patrick
"Improvisation is a parlor trick. Anyone can do it." - Willy Wonka

BrooksBabe> Congrats! I've still gotta a couple months left or I'd email you some beer.

Gantros> Call 'em and reschedule. You have an 'important meeting' to attend.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Temporaily out of my mind, please leave a message after the beep.

*wanders in, looks around, and starts dancing* July 15 has FINALLY arrived! Which means, I'm FINALLY 19!!! I'm legal age in my country! Woo!

Although I must say, the gift I got from Mother Nature, I could have done without. Yesterday, a storm decides to roll in. But, it seemed harmless, although the power did go on and off a few times. So, just to be safe, I unplugged my laptop and just went with the batt. Stupid me, I held on to the charger, and the next time lightning struck, I got shocked. Minor, but kinda freaked me out a bit. Storm got worse, so I decided to get off the 'Net. Barely five seconds after taking the phone cord out of my laptop, lightning strikes again, only this time it hit my chimney, went right through, and burnt a nice little hole in my fireplace. Not to mention it blew out the buttons on it, and fried my home surround sound system, VCR, and N64 (have yet to check my PS), and knocked out the power. (Sorry about the ranting, I'm just still ticked off at the fact it took so long to get the power back, and that I have about $4000 worth of damages because of that one bolt.).

So moving onto the garg-related stuff.... a life-size plushie of Bronx that makes sounds when you hug him and whatnot sounds awesome. But there has to be plushies of all the gargs (but not life size. I'm making the point clear now, as I forgot to last time).

BrooksBabe
Everyone's entitled to be stupid, but you're abusing the priviledge!

Patrick> Then I royally screwed up my travel plans, because now I arrive late Friday evening, and leave for home Sunday around Noon. <sighs> I hope some of the more interesting stuff will happen Saturday, what with sleeping and all, I won't have much time for anything else. I guess if I ever go to another convention, I'll be more careful about setting up my timeline.
Gantros
"As with all things, darkness falls for thee..."

Gantros > The airline changed your flight time by two days? I think I would pitch a fit over that one. You're not missing two days of the con by getting there on Friday night, though. The con is Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday.
Patrick

Awww!!! I would just have to keep hugging that Goliath doll if it said that! How cute is he?!
dudette

Goliath couldn't have a Tickle Me doll. Instead, it would have to say, "I've been denied everything -- EVEN MY REVENGE!!!"
Aelyria

Wow!!! Just trained with Karate ledgend and England's kata coach Sensei Dave Hazard!! What an experience. Just had to say that!

Anyway, Gargoyles! Ya know, I don't recall here hearing Goliath laugh, bless 'im!

dudette

"Does Goliath even know how to laugh maniacally?"

(~Ahem~ *cough* Sorry, could not resist *g*)

Duncan

Okay, I stop by and the very first thing that pops out is "Tickle Me Goliath"....I need to go get some more sleep
Siren
Click my name for my newest Gargoyles music video!

Aww c'mon, I know half of you would go for a tickle-me Brooklyn or Broadway....with a tickle-me Angela for the guys. ;)
Vertigo1 - [md2389@gmail.com]
"If there is to be a hoe down, let it be a stripper that stumbles!" - Roy, Father of the Pride

'Tickle Me Goliath'.... now THAT would be scary. I could deal with a Tickle Me Demona or Lexington doll, but Goliath? No way.
The Sadistic Cow
My friends say I should act my age. What's my age again?

Yeah, tickle me Demona. You tickle her and she kills you!
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Temporaily out of my mind, please leave a message after the beep.

I'm sad to say, my departure flight plans got changed to Friday, the 29th, at 9 PM, so I'll miss the first 2 days of the Gathering :(. I hope whoever I meet in Vegas will fill me in on what I miss...
Gantros
"As with all things, darkness falls for thee..."

*wistful sigh* I hope I grow up to be a scheming billionaire...
Aelyria

How cute would a 'Tickle Me Lexinton' be?! I'd buy the Demona one! Drive my family mad with it though! x x x
dudette

A "Tickle Me Demona"? No thanks. I'm not certain that I'd want to provoke her to laugh, knowing what sort of laughter it's likely to be.
Todd Jensen

New merchandise? I think we're LONG overdue for "Gargoyles" plushies. How about a "Tickle Me Demona"?

"Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" opens today.
Around 17 hours and 15 minutes days left until "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" is released.
12 days left until I get on a plane for the west coast.
14 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!

Patrick
"That's Homer Simpson, sir. One of your drones from sector 7-G." - Wayland Smithers

Oh please, no more "reality tv" ideas! The fewer of those shows on the air, the better! ;)

Now for a creativity demon....Would Hudson have ever gone near the TV again if the first thing he saw on it (in the pilot) was Jarassic Park right at the part where the T-Rex was attacking the two kids in the SUV? ;)

Vertigo1 - [md2389@gmail.com]
"If there is to be a hoe down, let it be a stripper that stumbles!" - Roy, Father of the Pride

When I was commenting on Owen's similarity to Smithers, I was thinking not in terms of orientation, but in terms of the fact that they look fairly similar, and, more importantly, are both highly efficient and capable executive assistants to scheming billionaires.
Todd Jensen

Dudette>It's just you. And I don't see Owen going the Smithers direction (if you catch my drift). And I'm a die-hard Simpsons fan and a die-hard Gargoyles fan.
Lord GargFan
I like Bishansky's signature :P

Honestly, the only "Gargoyles" character who has a strong similarity to a "Simpsons" character for me is Owen. (No prizes for guessing which "Simpsons" character he resembles.) Certainly I don't see a Xanatos-Ned Flanders connection, particularly in light of Xanatos most likely being an atheist or agnostic, as opposed to Ned's devoutness.

GUANDALUG - Thanks for your offer. I'd like my reviews to be "specially written" ones rather than just collections of old rambles from this place, but I'll see about contributing some to your site, all the same.

Speaking of which:

I watched my tape of "City of Stone Part Three" today. A few comments.

I still find the bit about Travis Marshall's report at the beginning and his interview with the woman who didn't get turned to stone "because I never watch television" a particularly amusing one.

Back to 1040: I knew from actual history that Macbeth slew Duncan in this year, so the moment that caption appeared on the screen, I had a very strong idea what was going to happen now.

I really like the scene with Macbeth and Duncan in Act I. Macbeth saves Duncan's life - and Duncan is only too ready to forget it a few minutes later, thanks to his paranoia. The Weird Sisters have their big Shakespeare moment - and in a reverse of the play, their words, instead of motivating Macbeth to move against Duncan, motivate Duncan to move against Macbeth.

When Duncan's smashing Demona's gargoyles, his men are just standing around watching, rather than joining in; they only start taking action after the gargoyles awaken and the big fight breaks out. I wonder why they were letting Duncan do all the work. Did they think that it would be a case of "Only I get to kill those monsters! I'll slay anyone else who cheats me of this act!", or were they still feeling nervous about the idea of going gargoyle-smashing that close to sundown?

I also really like the scene where the Weird Sisters are linking Demona and Macbeth together - particularly how it shows Macbeth seeing the Sisters as hags and Demona seeing the Sisters as old gargoyles.

We get a great scene of Macbeth and Demona's battle against Duncan and his army. One thing that amuses me about Duncan's death is that they come up with the fiery death for him to avoid doing yet another retread of the "falling off a cliff" concept - but while Duncan's in the middle of his fiery death, he falls over the edge of the cliff anyway. I guess that some old habits are hard to break.

We see Macbeth crowned on the Stone of Destiny - a nice little historical touch that I enjoyed, without even suspecting that the Stone would turn up in the present-day part of the series.

I find it an amusing twist that when we find out how Demona got her name, it turns out to be a compliment from an ally. I had assumed before seeing this episode (when I thought about it at all) that she got it from a frightened human whom she was attacking.

The scene between Macbeth and Demona at the coronation stands out to me for two reasons. When Macbeth tells Demona that humans will learn to respect her, she replies that she'd rather that they feared her. It makes me wonder a little about her; a lot of the troubles that gargoyles have come from being feared by humans to begin with. Unless Demona means "feared so much by humans that they won't dare fight us".

The second part is when the crowd cheers Demona's name and she, after staring at it for a moment in surprise, actually seems pleased. For a moment, she discovers that it's even better being loved than being feared - and then, seventeen years later, forgets it again - or rather, abandons the idea altogether.

Back to the present: the man talking to the Weird Sisters in their policewoman form looks a lot like Billy and Susan's father in "The Thrill of the Hunt". I wonder if it really could be he.

And we get the big cliffhanger with Demona about to smash Elisa. (Though I still wonder how she was able to conceal that secret passage while Xanatos was moving the whole castle from Scotland to New York.)

Todd Jensen

Dudette> It's just you.
Greg Bishansky
YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Howard Dean

I think Maude Flanders and Fox are about as polar opposite as any two people could be. Maude is all conservative and repressed, and Fox is... well... Fox.
Patrick
"Thank you, come again!" - Apu Nahasapimapetalon

PS Todd, i enjoyd reading your explanation of the typical hero and villain team up and how it differed in Gargoyles. Thanks x x
dudette

awww, c'mon! Doesn't anybody notice a similarity of any kind?... Any? It's just that the the thought of Xanatos came to mind sraight away as soon as I saw Ned, can't explain why, it just did! Maybe Xanatos is a more extreme version of Ned? They both have partnrs with red hair! :)
dudette

dudette - I think it's just you.
The Sadistic Cow
My friends say I should act my age. What's my age again?

Hey, there was a similarity between both characters ok!... Or it might be just me.
dudette

Okalie-Dokalie
Greg Bishansky
YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Howard Dean

Get lost, Xanatos!
Greg Bishansky
YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Howard Dean

David Xanatos: Hi diddily ho, Garg-a-rinos! Say, how would you like to come by my place, so I can clone you and we can chat about the Lord ;)
Greg Bishansky
YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Howard Dean

Hi everyone! I watchd The Simpsons today after not watching an episode for ages. As soon as Nd Flanders came on the screen, I instantly thought of Xanatos. Also how similar are Owen and Smithers :D.

Laters x x x

dudette

GXB - Actually, I would love to see them release a realistic looking model of Cyberbiotics Air Fortress 1 or 2, as an upper cost toy.
dph
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Two new summaries are available: "The Reckoning" by D. Taina and "Upgrade" by Harvester of Eyes. Thus, I only need the 7 promised summaries that are missing from season 2 (one of those I'll do myself), the one already promised for Season 3 - and volunteers for 6 missing Season 3 episodes. Come on, people, we're nearly done.

On another note, I got asked if I'd take other reviews as well, to round off the single opinion of the sole reviewer Juan F. Lara. Yes, I would. Adding one or two additional reviews per episode would be a VERY good idea, (and if I get three, so be it), just to show that other fans maybe saw the episodes slightly different. As an example, Todd Jensen tends to post interesting rambles on all those episodes. Todd, would you be interested in having those put up at the GFW? If yes, could you collects them (maybe read them over) and send them my way?
The same goes for other fans - if you've got a review that you think is worth sharing - send it my way (but please mention the episode it belongs to - I don't want to go episode guessing :).

And even more requests: If you got a filk song about Gargoyles (or at least related to Gargoyles), and it's not already published on the GFW websites - why wait? Send it in, and it'll be put up as soon as I get around to do it. Take a look at http://www.gargoyles-fans.org/fanwork/songs/ to see what I already have - and check if your song is missing.

On another note: new merchandise? Easy: Life Size Plush Bronx (optionally add a sound generator that activates when he gets cuddled and hugged)

Guandalug la'Fay - [guandalug@gargoyles-fans.org]
It has been said that the world is a strange place. This is not true. The world is a VERY strange place.

Siren > I have an idea how the reality show you propose would play out, but it's horribly non-PC and as such I think I'd better keep it to myself.

1 day left until "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" opens.
2 days left until "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" is released.
13 days left until I get on a plane for the west coast.
15 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!

Patrick
"I think so, Brain, but where are we going to find rubber pants in our size?" - Pinky

No, don't model them after old figures, make new ones entirely from scratch. Why buy the same ones again?
Greg Bishansky
YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Howard Dean

........................Although the Kenner figures were ok, there should be new figures modeled after the ones Applause came out with. Now those look exactly like the originals on screen.

They do come to life and roam the house when no one's looking. Then when we come home, they glide back up to the top of the bookshelf and perch themselves until the next time they can be free.

Vin

castle0909

Here's an idea. With the DVDs doing well, and the new comics on the way. What kind of new merchandising would you like to see?

I think new, more collector oriented Action Figures would be awesome. Give them better scupts than the crappy Kenner figures. Start out with the clan, Elisa, Demona and Xanatos and go from there.

Greg Bishansky
YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Howard Dean

The only reality show idea I ever thought up that I would actually watch would be something like Big Brother. Each person would have to be set in their beliefs, but still open minded. No out right haters.
Cast would include a

Christian
Jew
Muslim
Wiccan
Buddist
Mormon
Jehovah Witness
Athiest

Give or take. Doesn't have to be a deffintive list. But just looking at the most major religions on the USA and world.
Hence why I said, firm in belief, but open minded. I wouldn't want it to turn into something preachy nor hateful. I have researched several religions and found so many were extreemly similar. It would be nice to have a show about real people who maybe find that out on their own as well.

Doubt I'll ever see anything like that. Not even sure if Fox would take it, it may actually be TOO controversial in the end. Because no matter how open minded some people think they are, bare bones, a battle would eventually start....but then again, that's ratings :P

Siren
Click my name for my newest Gargoyles music video!

Leo>>No, they weren't actually my ideas. Sort of a "hmmm...how many reality shows can I predict that the FOX network will pick up?" that actually sort of happened. I've always said that the television companies have bugs everywhere. Or maybe that's just paranoia. But I've just formed half-baked "if I ever run into a TV exec maybe I'd tell him something" ideas that I've never shared with the world.

It was mostly my way of saying "Great minds think alike".

Or maybe "Anyone who works in TV has telepathic capabilities to find more ways to try to earn money."

None of them were ever actually told by me to anyone. Just coincidences.

Lord GargFan
I like Bishansky's signature :P

Lord GargFan: "...please give me my due credit. I've already had enough reality TV shows stolen from my brain,...."

.....
Must....
resist....
urge....
to..
respond... ARRRRGH! *fails*

YoumeansomeofthosewastesofairtimewereactuallyYOURideas?!?!? :-P

Leo

"City of Stone" was one of those episodes that I wish that they would revisit if they ever revived the series in my dream fashion (hey, that's an idea! A "Your Pitch for a Gargoyles Revival" contest on the CR) or even in the comic. The S&P people probably gave leniancy, but still influenced what they could have done in a network show (like in my dream world). I would've liked to see how the human side dealed with it as a mirror to Demona's reaction to the massacre in 994.

But even if it's never revisited, one can only hope...

And if anyone actually does decide to hold a "Your Dream Pitch" contest/theme for a coming week, please give me my due credit. I've already had enough reality TV shows stolen from my brain, and I really don't want that to branch out into internet discussions.

Lord GargFan
I like Bishansky's signature :P

Watched my tape of "City of Stone Part Two" today. Some comments on it.

One thing that I learned about Gruoch's ancestry in real history a few years ago gave an interesting new light on Duncan's actions in this episode. In real Scottish history, Gruoch was descended (via Bodhe) from Kenneth III, who was betrayed and deposed by Maol Chalvim II (Duncan and Macbeth's grandfather, the same Maol Chalvim whom we get a brief look at in "Avalon Part One") in 1005 (eight years after Kenneth III overthrew Constantine). That gives Gruoch a particularly important role in Scotland; she has a better claim to the throne than Duncan (or Macbeth), as the descendant of Kenneth III, who had a prior claim to the Scottish throne over Maol Chalvim. Knowing Duncan, I doubt that he would have any qualms of conscience over the fact that his claim to the crown is in doubt, since he inherited it from an usurper, and at a point when the deposed king's descendants are still about in Scotland; frankly, Duncan doesn't strike me as even having much of a conscience. And Gruoch is no threat to him directly, since the Scottish nobility in that time would be unlikely to take orders from a woman. But a husband of Gruoch's could take up the sword against Duncan, ostensibly on his wife's behalf - thus meaning that Duncan would want to take special care over whom Gruoch marries. Which is why he'd be so adamant against Macbeth marrying her; since he fears that Macbeth is out to overthrow him, letting him wed a descendant of Kenneth III's is clearly out of the question. Marrying her off to his trusty henchman Gillecomgain, however, is another matter entirely - until Gillecomgain starts getting too independent. After which, I suspect, Duncan has more than just the concern of a rebellious nobleman on his hands - it's the fact that Gillecomgain could use his marriage to Gruoch as justification for overthrowing Duncan and becoming king. Which makes it all the clearer why Duncan would want to get rid of Gillecomgain like that - and proceeds to have Macbeth do his dirty work for him.

(This still leaves the question as to why Duncan never arranged an accident for Bodhe, who was also descended from Kenneth III. My personal suspicion is that Duncan figured that Bodhe's cowardice would keep him from attempting a bid for the throne.)

Duncan still shows the preference of having someone else do his dirty work for him (first having Gillecomgain kill Findlaech for him, then manipulating Macbeth into going after Gillecomgain), rather than taking up the sword himself. Part of it is that he can't afford to be openly involved in such skullduggery, but I suspect that it might also be a hint of cowardice (we see some strong signs of that trait for him in Part Three, and in light of some of Canmore's behavior in Part Four, Jon Canmore's behavior in "Hunter's Moon", and Goliath's comment about what hiding your face behind a mask says about your level of courage in "The Journey", maybe it was a family trait).

Demona delivers the ultimate insult to Gillecomgain when she reveals to him that she doesn't even remember scarring his face all those years ago; evidently, she'd done that sort of thing so often that the incident at the barn didn't have any great significance to her. (A bit like the scene in "Batman Beyond" where Terry was confronting Blight, saying to him, "You murdered my father", and Blight retorts, "Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?")

Jeffrey Robbins gets a neat cameo in the present-day part of this episode. A cameo that he was perfect for, in explaining what had to happen for magic to affect you.

We see, during Demona's own little massacre, two of the big "infamous moments" in "City of Stone", if infamous for different reasons: first, Demona blowing off the woman's arms (I shudder to think what happened to her come dawn), and then, Demona smashing those two statues who look like Brendan and Margot but obviously can't be them because they show up in later episodes. (One case where reusing character designs *wasn't* such a good idea.)

We get our first look (when Demona's fighting Macbeth as the Hunter) in how they both share the same pain. Though I didn't pick that up the first time that I saw this episode.

Brooklyn's still feeling bitter towards Demona, and Goliath's doing all that he can to restrain him by seeing that Brook doesn't go looking for Demona on his own.

I can't help thinking that it was a good thing that Lexington switched off the sound on Robbins' set before Demona's broadcast could do a full loop in front of the gargoyles. Think of what it could have done to them if they'd seen and heard the whole thing; they'd be trapped in their stone sleep 24 hours a day all over again!

The episode ends with Xanatos and Goliath making their alliance. I've said this before, but what still stands out to me about it is how much this differs from the conventional "hero and villain team up" in animated series. Usually, the way that it goes is as follows:

1. Hero, realizing that they've got a common foe, suggests that they team up to the villain, who initially refuses, and only reluctantly agrees to it in the end.

2. The villain is little help (except in a nominal sense), being so keen on getting rid of the hero and finding some way of double-crossing him that he short-sightedly forgets about the common threat.

3. After the team-up succeeds, the villain turns on the hero at once in usual treacherous fashion - to get soundly thrashed again.

"City of Stone" defied the rules on that one:

1. Xanatos is the one who suggests the team-up, with Goliath initially more in a mood to tear him limb from limb over helping Demona; Xanatos, however, stops him with "Do you want vengeance, or a solution?" Just like Xanatos to focus on the priorities.

2. Xanatos is a big help, coming up with both an idea for how to break Demona's spell (making the sky burn) and coming up with a means of doing it.

3. He works with the gargoyles to the end rather than stabbing them in the back, and even parts with them under reasonably amiable circumstances, commenting about how much they come in handy. Definitely a far cry from the "team-up" conventions above!

Todd Jensen

TODD> The Extended Editions are both much better. Your local Blockbuster should have them.
Greg Bishansky
YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Howard Dean

Well, I am not starting any wild rumors...

John Rhys-Davies was Gimli and Macbeth... there is a connection right there. What the IMDB considders a "refernce" can be avery minor thing... For example, a name on the side of a building is the same name a character had in a director's other movie. Stuff like that.

There has to be a refernce to Gargoyles because in order to post the refernce you have to explain the refernce and they do read over submissions. Although, I will admit, they do post false info because I posted something that tunred oput to be false.

It is because they read over submissions that I have failed to be able to post the page for the Gargoyles DVD numerous times... (I think I have tried to submit info on the season 1 dvd about 50 times, and they still won't post it.)

If you click on DVD under any movie or tv show on the database, they list all or most of the editions of that film released on disc. I have not been able to post the Gargoyles DVD for some reason... I have tried and tried...

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

BISHANSKY - Theatrical. (Though I'd like to see the EE of both it and "The Return of the King" sometime.)

One thing that struck me about the "Two Towers" movie this time around is that Saruman's Uruks must have been really impatient to get into battle, in light of the fact that, when they were putting up ladders during the attack on Helm's Deep, there were lots of Uruks already standing on them. I always thought that you were supposed to get the scaling ladder in place against the battlements before swarming up it. I suppose that these guys just couldn't wait.

Moving back to "City of Stone", I forgot to mention one other thing about Part One last night. I've said this before, but to me, a great little irony is in the fact that Duncan had Findlaech assassinated because he was afraid that Findlaech would use his influence to have Macbeth made king in Duncan's place. But, during the scene where Findlaech and Bodhe are having dinner, Findlaech openly "pledges his loyalty" to Duncan as future King of Scotland. So Duncan went to all that trouble of hiring Gillecomgain and sending him to Castle Moray for nothing; Findlaech and Macbeth weren't a threat to his hopes for the throne at all. I suppose, however, that it would be like Duncan to not consider the possibility that Findlaech wasn't plotting against him, given that, if the positions were reversed, Duncan would almost certainly be conspiring to become king in place of Macbeth. As Elisa put it in "Protection", "The corrupt are always the first to believe that others can be corrupted."

Todd Jensen

Like any online reference site that relies on the submissions of users to build it's database, the IMdB has frequently been known to contain incorrect and dubious information.

The Space Shuttle Discovery is scheduled to launch today at 3:51 PM. It's a 13-day mission starting off on the 13th day of the month. So let's all try to send a little extra luck the way of NASA and the astronauts.

So since countdowns are a big thing today anyway...

2 days left until "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" opens ("Don't touch that squirrel's nuts!").
3 days left until "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" is released (unless you're one of the 14 lucky Canadians who bought it two days ago).
14 days left until I get on a plane for the west coast.
16 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!

Patrick
"You work with handcuffs as much as I do, you pick up a few tricks." - Elisa Maza, "Double Jeopardy"

Battle Beast: Please don't start any rumors.

I've watched the film many times, if there was a ref I would have spotted it. A lot of people here would. If there is anything close to a ref, it's coincidental.

Take anything from IMDB with a grain of salt.

Greg Bishansky
YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Howard Dean

THE TWO TOWERS> TYhere is supposed to be a Gargoyles refernce in the movie (as listed on the IMDB.com) BUt I have yet to find it...

IMDB> Have any of you read the posts useres leave on the Gargoyles page? Some of them are quite funny... like one, "Lord OBeron V. Goku" and such... sheck them out...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108783/

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Battle Beast>>Sorry. No coffee that day. D'oh!
Lord GargFan
Patiently waiting for news about the S2 release...ah, who am I kidding? C'mon! Let's get some more news!

Todd> Extended Edition of Theatrical?
Greg Bishansky
YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Howard Dean

Hmm. It's kinda hard to remember my first impressions of City of Stone. I certainly missed a lot that I caught on later viewings (at the time, I tended to watch things pretty casually). I was surprised by how Macbeth was treated, since my main point of reference for him was his previous encounters with the Gargoyles. So here is a "bad guy", who seems to be a pretty nice guy. Not sure if I made the connection between him and the present day Hunter.
Asatira

Watched my tape of "City of Stone Part One" this afternoon. A few thoughts on it.

Brendan and Margot have shown up in all five multi-parters in "Gargoyles". In "Awakening", they were rescued by Goliath from the three street thugs (though they didn't appreciate the rescue). Here, in "City of Stone", they're rescued by the gargoyles from the bank robbers/terrorists (and again, don't appreciate the rescue). In "Avalon", they're among the New Yorkers staring at Tom in his armor. In "The Gathering", we see them among the various New Yorkers falling asleep under Oberon's spell. And in "Hunter's Moon", they're some of the people on the subway rescued from the three street thugs by the gargoyles - and once again (anyone starting to see a pattern here?), don't appreciate the rescue. (I've sometimes thought that they ought to do a scene where the gargs rescue the yuppies from criminals yet again, Brendan and Margot do their usual "Get away from us, you monsters!", and Brooklyn comments, "Okay, we'll leave and tell the muggers that they can come back and carry on where they left off."

Despite Margot's conviction that the gargoyles are mindless animals (cf. "The Journey"), she was still able to pick up on the fact that the gargoyles were asking her about children.

I still really like the new footage to the Wyvern Massacre in this episode, especially the shift between Demona turning to stone on the beach and Hakon drawing his sword and bellowing "Attack!", Demona's "What have I - what have they done to you?" and her tearful farewell to Goliath.

We get a glimpse of Princess Katharine, the Magus, and Tom taking the eggs away. I suspect that some of Demona's suppressed guilt is over letting it happen (though I think that it's a good thing that she did); remember, she didn't know about Katharine and the Magus's change of heart. She only knew about their anti-gargoyle attitudes; she must have thought that they were looting the rookery for some horrible purpose (maybe using the eggs for one of the Magus's magical experiments, or - worse - planning to make the biggest omelet in Scotland).

Demona seems somehow able to magically overpower Owen while casting her broadcast spell; I'm not even going to try to explain that one. One question: how many of you thought about her calling Owen "the tricky one"? At the time, I thought that she was suggesting that Owen was a lot smarter than Xanatos (which didn't ring true to me; no offense intended towards the highly capable Owen, but we know that Xanatos is no fool). Of course, now we know the true significance of that remark.

I've asked this question before, but how many of you, the first time that you saw "City of Stone", were surprised to see the roles reversed from the Shakespeare play, as in Duncan changing from a benevolent, grandfatherly old king, into a treacherous schemer who hires Gillecomgain to murder Macbeth's father? In fact, Duncan acts a lot more like the Shakespearean Macbeth than Macbeth does (Part Three, when Macbeth and Duncan meet the Weird Sisters, brings this home even more).

The Hunter is introduced; there's a certain appropriateness about the continuing style and m.o. of the Hunters from the 11th century to the 20th, in light of Greg Weisman and Co.'s fears that "Gargoyles" would be perceived as a "Batman: TAS" rip-off. The Hunters really do have a certain "Batmanish" style about them; ordinary humans with double identities, good fighting skills, and equipment all giving them that larger-than-life air. The difference, of course, is that I can't imagine Batman (to look for a modern-day equivalent to the murder of Findlaech) disposing of a candidate for the Mayorship of Gotham City as a result of a deal that he'd made with the opposing candidate, who promises to in return, once he wins the election, ensure that Wayne Industries gets all the lucrative contracts.

Demona saves Macbeth and Gruoch's lives - and then discovers that the Hunter got away while she did that, and is thoroughly disgusted. No wonder Demona isn't that keen on protecting humans: "I'd have gotten rid of him if I'd let those two fall!"

I get a kick out of Fox's critique of Demona's performance based on her own television acting past (if you count "The Pack" as acting).

And the great cliffhanger with almost everyone (including Owen, Fox, and Elisa) turned to stone. The first time that I saw this episode, I knew that something dreadful was going to happen from Demona's spell, but wasn't certain as to what it would be (based on that talk about stealing minutes, I was maybe half-expecting accelerated aging a la Jackal's attacks in "Grief").

On a side-note: I was watching a tape of "The Two Towers" movie borrowed from the library last night, and the ending gave me a Gargoyles-related thought. Some years ago, we had a discussion here about various songs that could be related to "Gargoyles" characters. I've found myself thinking that "Gollum's Song" (from the ending credits of "The Two Towers") could fit Demona very well; what do the rest of you think?

Todd Jensen

Hi everyone. Sorry I havn't put anything on here for a while - been on my hols! Good to be back! x x x
dudette

Please read my entire comment. I didn't say they were impartial observers. I said they were *portrayed* as such in "City of Stone" but later they were revealed to be anything but.
Patrick
"You work with handcuffs as much as I do, you pick up a few tricks." - Elisa Maza, "Double Jeopardy"

BATTLE BEAST: Um. No.

Who have the Weird Sisters ever helped but themselves? I think you need to watch those episodes again. They are a vengeful trio of witches. They were humiliated and banished off Avalon by the Magus, as such failed to do what Oberon assigned them to do (guard Avalon from intruders), and then the Archmage came along and offered them a plan for revenge, and loop holes up the yin yang.

They didn't help ANYBODY in "City of Stone". They are anything but impartial. They needed Demona and Macbeth to willingly break down so they themselves could step in and take control. The fact that it did and up helping the clan and city more than hurting was just coincidental at best.

Greg Bishansky
YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Howard Dean

The Weird Sisters are like "The Watcher" from Marvel comics; LIke Patrick said, they are impartial observers forbidden from intervening in the affairs of others.

This is actually a great comparison.

In the issue of Fantastic Four where Galactus come to destroy the Earth, The Watcher is the one who alerts the team to his comming, and helps them to defeat him without actually acting.

The Weird Sisters are like that... they help by bending the law. (Not actually acting.)

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

"City of Stone" is also the episode that portrays the Weird Sisters as impartial observers, so that later we can roll our eyes in hindsight at their moral pronouncements when we see "Avalon" and discover their true reasons for doing what they did.

17 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!

Patrick
"You work with handcuffs as much as I do, you pick up a few tricks." - Elisa Maza, "Double Jeopardy"

BISHANSKY - Yes, maybe "creativity demon" wasn't the right word, but I didn't know what else to call it.

"City of Stone" is next on the list of "Gargoyles" episodes that I'll be watching this summer. I haven't started it yet, but I thought that I'd just make a few overall remarks concerning it.

I've mentioned this before, of course (probably more than once), but one thing that stands out to me about "City of Stone" is that it's one of my favorite stories in "Gargoyles", and yet one of its core elements is something that I usually dislike when it shows up in a television series (animated or otherwise): a story in which the protagonists have a relatively small role, that focuses instead on the backstory of the antagonist - or in this case, antagonists, two of them. (The only other exception to the rule for me was the episode about Cancerman and his background in "The X-Files".) "City of Stone" is concentrated around Demona and Macbeth rather than Goliath, his clan, and Elisa (despite the title, the real heart of the story isn't Demona's modern-day scheme, but the rise and fall of her alliance with Macbeth in 11th century Scotland). But it's still one of my favorites. I think that a lot of that comes from my having been interested in the story of Macbeth (both the Shakespeare play, and the history that it was based on) long before "Gargoyles" came out, and so the flashbacks about Macbeth's life excited me tremendously. Not to mention that those flashbacks contained a lot of great drama: Demona hiding during the Wyvern Massacre and her response to its aftermath, Macbeth's farewell to Gruoch, Macbeth and Duncan's encounter with the Weird Sisters, Macbeth and Demona's pact with the Sisters, and the final parting of Macbeth and Gruoch, among others. Not to mention the way that the Sisters keep on turning up as extras - which was one of my favorite touches.

It's also a landmark episode. Xanatos and Demona's alliance is permanently severed (how many people thought when they were watching "Awakening" that that would ever happen?). We find out not only how Demona survived, but see more of why she pursues her anti-humanity crusade with such fervor. We also find out just who Macbeth is and what he wants. And both the Weird Sisters and the Hunters enter the series.

Todd Jensen

Lord GargFan> It's "Elisa" I think, if I've been a fan long enough... :P
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Eliza being a rip-off>>If you show them a DVD, make sure that they're not the same ones who like old movies...Little Mermaid, The Rescuers, etc. (sorry for the recycled joke, but it just seemed so appropriate)

And I'd be iffy to test the transporter if there wasn't a guarantee/paycheck involved. Of course, death in the transporter probably wouldn't be covered under the warranty, so you or your loved one would be dead with no compensation. And you would probably lose the lawsuit.

Lord GargFan
Patiently waiting for news about the S2 release...ah, who am I kidding? C'mon! Let's get some more news!

Kythera of Anevern> It's on saturday. I'm press at comic con so I will be attending and also handing out the gargoyle gathering stickers at the pannel. Ah the joys of being press at that convention *snickers*

Will be doing a small gargoyle gathering on sunday if your interested in attending. Just passing out Tshirts and stickers and a few gargoyle cosplayers will be with us.

I hope to see you there. Are you going to the gathering also?

Patrick> Im sure since comic con is so big. you'll probally get more information at the gathering. There only alloud an hour of speaking time at the comic con and have to clear the room for another pannel. But it's still going to be fun to attend.

Gore>Did I tell you how much I love this comment room :P

Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]

Todd> My fear about any RL (Real Life for you non-MMOG people) matter transporter is that even if the physical form is perfect when it reaches it's destination, if the conciousness that makes up free will is the same when it reaches the other end. That is, what comes out the other end is YOU, it may exactly like you down to the memories and personality, and to anyone else is you, but would your consciousness be lost and replaced with a new one, like losing your soul to have it replaced by another at the other end.
Gantros
"As with all things, darkness falls for thee..."

TODD> Not sure I would call that a creativity demon. But it's definetly a sad prediction. Something I think people are dumb enough to do.

Hell, I've heard people refer to the Fantastic Four as a rip-off of The Incredibles. When the FF were around forty years earlier. Only thing FF is guilty of is being a really crappy movie.

Greg Bishansky
YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Howard Dean

And even if they did invent matter transporter technology, a lot of us would probably be steering clear of it for a long time until the manufacturers can assure us that no stray flies will be buzzing in while it's in use. :)
Todd Jensen

Greg Weisman and Dan Vado will also be at The Gathering, so I'm hoping we'll get the same scoop there that people are going to hear at Comic Con. Because unless someone invents matter transporter technology within the next three days, I'm not going to be attending Comic Con.

18 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada!

Patrick
"I've got a sunny disposition and I'm always kind to animals." - Puck, "The Gathering, Part 2"

Fresh creativity demon for Monday morning:

Somebody gets introduced to "Gargoyles" for the first time through the DVD, and immediately comments in disgust that Elisa Maza's character design is a rip-off of Detective Ellen Yin in "The Batman".

Todd Jensen

Shara - Which day of Comic Con is that tempting morsel taking place on? On the off chance that I DO get to go, I'm only going to be there Saturday and Sunday.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera(at)gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" -- Inkubus Sukkubus

::snarfs down Kyt's pie, then draws a '10' in the leftover filling::
Chameleongirl
Woo! Sig line! ^_^

10th!!

For anyone interested who is going to comic con.

4:00-5:00 Slave Labor Graphics-SLG president and publisher Dan Vado and editor-in-chief Jennifer de Guzman will preview the new line of Disney licensed comics, as well as SLG's upcoming creator-owned projects. On hand will be Landry Walker (Little Gloomy, Tron) and Greg Weisman (Gargoyles) as well as other contributors to the SLG/Disney line, to discus their plans for the individual comics. How does the company that publishes Lenore and Johnny the Homicidal Maniac shift gears to doing Disney comics? Find out here. Room 7B

Shara Mordinae - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]

Ninth!!!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Eighth! Eighth in the name of CHEESE!

And pie. Everyone should have pie.

Kythera of Anevern - [kythera(at)gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" -- Inkubus Sukkubus

7th!
Asatira

6th!!
dph
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

5th!
The Sadistic Cow
My friends say I should act my age. What's my age again?

4th....
mascubanana - [am2469@barnard.edu]
growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional

........................3rd. Wow, season 2 on DVD, that is great. Anyone else figure when it'll come out, probably around the same time as last year. They'll probably make mention of it at the Gathering.
As for the volumes, either it comes out all at once, at a high price or smaller sets at like $20 each, I'm still gonna get me a couple copies... maybe that's what they're counting on.

Vin

castle0909 - [castle0909@aol.com]

A close 2nd!
kjay - [tigonesskay@netzero.net]
Brain freeze....

FIRST!
Greg Bishansky
YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Howard Dean