Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

I was called away from my studies prematurely...

#>> You know what, I've got a great rebuttal sitting in the wings, but I didn't defend Dragomir against flames so I could do the same thing. And, really, it would be unnecessary, because by your shift in argument I know you understand you're wrong, but you just want to beat your point to death to see how many people get upset at your stubbornness.

So let me summarize:

What you posted a couple of hours ago does not equal even slightly what you've been going on about for the last day. Perceiving something differently from other observers is nowhere near the idea that a collective consciousness can physically alter reality, and trying to pass off the former as the latter and say that I'm "getting it" is, to say the least, insulting.

So here's what's going to happen:

In my little universe - in my perception of reality - from the moment I post this, you will no longer exist. From the moment I press "Add Your Chat," my reality will adjust to exclude you from then on; unless you try to send another newbie our way as an unwitting pawn to wreak havoc and gain enjoyment at our expense.

In that case, #, I promise you're coming back into my world, and no perceptions on your part will get you out of it.
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
*poof!*
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 7:50:45 pm EST from 216.145.68.246

I've always been itching to know what the new member was. Being The Pack all have dog names, I wondered what dog name (if at all), it would be. Dhole and African Wild Dogs are 2 wild dogs that's names don't strike me as....villian names. I was wondering if he was going to choose a dog breed name instead. Which I am against making many maligned dog breeds seem any worse then the media already makes them. Frankly, if he came out with a villian named Rottweiler or Pit Bull....It would leave a bad taste in my mouth that I'm not so sure I could recover from. I frankly, have no idea who the new member would be, I just hope that's not Greg's plan. I really do hope not. The so-called "dangerous" breeds have enough to deal with in the media.
http://media.putfile.com/Gargoyles-AMV-Cheers-Darlin-Brooklyn-Talon-Maggie">Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
Click my name for my newest Gargoyles (Brooklyn/Maggie/Talon) music video!
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 7:03:02 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

Hi Matt, when I said Coldsteel was "evil to the core," I wasn't taking a shot at other cultures or trying to bug you. Its just that judging from what we have seen of him thus far, I honestly cannot peg him as anything but a villain. He has never shown any pity to those he has wronged or remorse for his crimes, unlike MacBeth, Demona, or Xanatos. I can't see any grey in Coldsteel's actions or personality, just Like the Archmage or Hyena appear to be all bad. I've never heard of the possibility of Coldsteel joining the Pack, but find the idea interesting (would they accept him? Knowing he was once a gargoyle?)

I agree that Coldsteel is not a master villain though, more like a potential sidekick to another, more prominent villain. He would definately make a good hired muscle for Thailog or Demona, thats for sure. But I still suspect Xanatos had a reason for letting he go that fateful night. I look forward to those new topics you are saving for next week Matt, I've enjoying debating with you thus far. (:
Dragomir
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 7:02:14 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

I believe Greg planned for Coyote and Coldsteel to team up. Not sure if Coldsteel would join the Ultra Pack though. Greg said the new memeber was no one we know.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I apologise. I'm .. sorry. I'm sorry we had to defend ourselves against an unwarranted attack. I'm sorry that your crew was stupid enough to fire on a station filled with a quarter million civilians, including your own people. And I'm sorry I waited as long as I did before I blew them all straight to Hell. .. As with everything else, it's the thought that counts." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 6:53:10 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Just one thing I need to change about my last statement. I meant Physcists not physcians, don't even know why I typed that.

As for David Hume, I am only slightly familar with his works. His ideas of causation and his views on induction intrigued me.
#
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 6:27:07 pm EST from 172.156.15.249

Welcome to the board Stabbity! :D
http://media.putfile.com/Gargoyles-AMV-Cheers-Darlin-Brooklyn-Talon-Maggie">Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
Click my name for my newest Gargoyles (Brooklyn/Maggie/Talon) music video!
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 6:25:32 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

Wow, I think I can safely say that this week will go down as one of the busiest weeks in Comment Room history. Glad the fandom is so alive.

I have a couple of great topics to talk about, but i'll save them for when the room clears. This week is packed with topics already.

Coldsteel> I agree with other who have guessed that he'll probably team up with Xanatos or Demona or Thailog sometime in the future. He doesn't particularly strike me as someone who makes his own plans and does his own thing. In short, he seems more of a follower or sidekick than a leader. I think Thailog and Coldsteel would make an excellant team.

However, I remember that we had discussed a long time ago the possibility that Coldsteel would be the as-yet-unknown member of the Ultra Pack, and take the name Beast (representing the gargoyle beasts). I still think this is a possibility, and would be kinda cool.

Also, I don't think Coldsteel is "evil to the core". It bugs me to no end when people refer to other people, cultures, groups or countries as "evil". I think we see pure evil in this world very rarely, and the word shouldn't be tossed around to people who bug us or disagree with us or do things we find repulsive/wrong. Coldsteel has issues, no doubts there. Is he evil? I don't see any evidence of that. Is he redeemable? Maybe.

I think we have yet to see ANYONE who is pure evil or pure good in the Gargoyles Universe. Maybe when Santa Claus enters the picture, or Queen Mab, or the Space Spawn. So far, I'm happy to say that our characters have all been shades of gray.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"Is man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's blunders?" - Friedrich Nietzsche
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 6:24:26 pm EST from 150.201.66.47

I see that # is a fan of David Hume.

Anyway, hello Gargoyles community. I don't have anything particularly significant to add, other than "hi," but I hope I can contribute to this awesome comment room in the future. ^_^
Stabbity
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 5:25:49 pm EST from 24.160.120.104

#> What is this, some kind of sadistic fillibuster?
Leo
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 4:42:31 pm EST from 68.107.154.71

Alex>Now, you are finally starting to get it.
I assume, you've taken basic modern physics classes or at least read theroies pertaining to them. The most basic concept is a reference frame, that two objects in the same reference frame can percieve something differently and both be correct, but only a third observer in an outside reference frame can realize why both are correct. We exist in the same universal reference frame therefore we can never see the truth of it. I can never prove my theory since I can only percieve what I percieve, and you cannot prove your theory since you can only percieve what you percieve. And yes, you can argue scientific fact till you're blue in the face, but as I stated someone can argue the exact opposite of that, and be correct as well.
We laugh at the beliefs of those who came before because we grasped concepts better than them, just as those who will come after will laugh at our stupidity. They will mock, our beliefs in imaginary particles, and theories on matter states, because they will believe they know better. And the ones who come after that will mock them, and so forth till there is no after.
I am no way saying I'm correct because to be presumptious enough to believe yourself to be correct is the greatest mistake a scientist can make. As I said to the other poster that science is not conclusion, it is changable theory.

Patrick>And you of course are correct. My theory is nonsensical since you percieve from your frame of reference it is nonsensical, as do a limited number of other observers, therefore it dictates it is nonsensical by the frame of reference. See, it is a simple theory to understand.

Whit>Simply put, all things are correct at the same time they are wrong based on a ever changing frame of reference.

Why do you think mathmaticians and physicians created the Limit function? We cannot percieve what happens at infinity, just come up with an observal pattern based on what we know, so we created limit. As x goes to infinity we believe it will follow the same pattern it followed in the lower numbers (not just ones and tens but googleplexes are still low numbers in dimensions of infinity). Laws of probability state that it must be true since it's the most probable, but again it's probability, and there is no such thing as a 100% in an infinte reality.
#
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 4:25:59 pm EST from 172.171.66.203

Matt< I agree that magic cannot be scientifically explained, though it can affect the physical world. However, Iago, AKA Coldsteel, is definately evil to the core. He lusts after Desdemona to the point at which he is more than willing to both mislead and murder his envied rookery brother Othello. He tries to turn Othello against Goliath in virtual reality (and according to Desdemona he tried to do the same thing back during the dark ages). Iago wants Desdemona so badly that he even attempts to force her to merge with his consciousness (seriously creepy, but funny when she bit him).

Iago also wastes no time in allying himself with Demona and MacBeth after he temporarily gains complete control of Coldstone, he really seemed to enjoy being along for the ride (especially during the fight between Demona and Maza). He may not be insane though, depending on your definition of madness. But I still think he's crazy for actually wanting to go back to being a living machine after he finally became flesh and blood again (which shows just how power mad he truly is). i'm interested to learn what his next move will be in the comics, will he become a major villain? Or just a stooge for someone like Demona or Xanatos?

I think it might be interesting if he teamed up with Thailog (and when I say team up, I mean Thailog infects him with a virus and threatens to wipe his system clean if he doesn't obey. MAHAHA). Though this scenario maybe more likely with Xanatos to be honest (bet that is why he let him go before). Demona is probably the only person he would willingly work with, because they share the same hatred for the Manhattan Clan and seemed to get along just fine before. I too wonder what he was like before he became obsessed with killing othello and taking Desdemona as his own.
Dragomir
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 3:49:14 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

i dont think i is fare that the second halfe of season two might not come out because of sales look at every thing else out there that isnt popular like gargoyes that doese come out. to me the art work story line is better than any cartoon out there today so i find this to be an outrage.
elisa - [brookeburdette@hotmail.com]
brooke burdette
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 3:30:03 pm EST from 69.44.205.57

Or I could forget the link...

http://www.sablesys.com/baro-altitude.html

My bad, people.
Alex Garg
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 2:57:21 pm EST from 216.145.68.246

Whit>> Well, that might just be the result of rapid adaptation.

Greg (W) has said that gargoyles have a knack for adjusting their circadian rhythm to different conditions. I recall the example that if an equatorial gargoyle was moved to a more arctic climate, s/he would very soon adjust to the new sunset/sunrise cycle; or if cut off from sunlight for a prolonged period, would develop a free-running 12-hour sleep cycle (assuming the problem of building up its energy stores doesn't kill him/her first).

Ignoring my Eyrie calculations of a while back, let's just say that Goliath's perch at the top of the castle on the Eyrie is 3,000 feet above sea level, and when it was at Wyvern it was 500 feet.

My name is a linked to a barometric chart, and it's plain that the changes in average temperature at certain altitudes (such as the ones I've suggested) become pretty significant.

For reference, 26.35 in. is the lowest recorded pressure near sea level in North America - landfall of the 1935 Labor Day hurricane in Florida - yet that's near the average pressure of 3,000 feet, and well lower than the assumed 500 feet of Goliath's once-native altitude. The change might very well have snapped the gargoyles out of the spell, but perhaps not so drastic that they couldn't adapt (after all, gargoyles surely glide at altitudes far above 3,000 feet and so are used to much lower pressures)

But, then, we return to the original question of whether or not barometric pressure affects gargoyle's circadian rhythm /is/ as much as exposure to sunlight. It would be an interesting experiment - were it possible - to take a sea level clan of gargoyles and stick them on, say, the peaks of the Rockies and see whether or not there was a delay in when they turn to stone from the moment of sunrise.

Great, now this is stuck in my head.

Obed>> Good input, and if I did not have to commit myself for the remainder of the day to studying I would respond to it more fully. So all I will say is recall that Xanatos /did/, in a way, trick the requirements of a magic spell with a scientific solution - i.e., "City of Stone."

Now I must go away from the natural laws governing the universe to the constructed laws governing the institutions of the media. I look forward to catching up on this discussion.
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
Dorkgasmic!
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 2:55:40 pm EST from 216.145.68.246

sorry for the double post, but i felt like addressing the iron thing.

I always felt that the iron weakness thing stemmed from the commen concept of industry vs. magic. Iron represents industry and the idea of people leaving behind the old ways in favor of technology...becoming less mystified by things like magic, and instead absorbed in their own power. Naturally, Iron being as important as it is to this concept, would be able to repel the effects and power of magic. This in turn should be able to weaken any of the Third Race, becuase of their intrinsic connection to magic. If there was an object that can repel magic, than it would certainly disrupt a CoO from being able to control it properly, and since they have no true form, the ability to even keep that form will start to get compromised. It appears that they are so connected to magic that when iron repels it, they get weak. Again, I think it's more a matter of the concept behind it rather than any special properties iron might have.

Then again that's just my take on it, I think I might be failing to take a number of factors into account...this explanation feels a little weak...
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 2:42:51 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

I think the effects of "magic" can be measured and discussed scientifically, but I still see magic as something separate, sort of out of bounds of science. And I see it as separate from being energy. To me it appears that magic can affect energy in the same way that it can affect matter, but it is still a third and separate component that is kind of elevated above the two. Though we know it can certainly be directed to affect energy and matter by creatures which must be material, though only in very specific ways. Also, whenever we see a mage or CoO use spells and get drained, it always seemed to me that they weren't getting drained of magical energy, but rather, that using magic to control and direct things uses up their own energy. (Whit and Alex could probably explain that one better...)

So I do think that the effect the stone sleep spell had on the gargoyles could be measured. the only tricky part is that I believe that magic, with its power to command existence in such specific ways, can affect things in any number of ways to accomplish the same end. There's probably all different kinds of ways that the spell could have caused the 1000 year stone sleep in the gargoyles, but we would have to actually observe the gargoyles themselves to determine what was actually going on and see how the spell changed their biology to complete the conditions of the spell.

Also, just looking at the many conditions required for a spell to work or be broken that were featured in the series gives us an indication of the almost arbitrary nature of working with magic. It seems to me that magic works through subjectvie concepts rather than provable facts, which is how science works/explains things. Things like beauty, love, faith...immeasurable by scientific standards because they are only concepts, they aren't actually "real" in the same sense that an eye or a heart is real, but they certainly exert an influence on the real world, and can be affected by reality. I think magic is the same way.

The way Elisa broke the slave spell on Goliath is a good way of illustrating this. It wouldn't matter how many surgeries or therapies goliath could have undertaken, there was not "real" way to free him from that spell because until the spell was "magically" broken, it would keep sustenaining itself becuase it obeys the concepts that employed it in the first place. Therefore Elisa had to cleverly use the spell against itself, not even necessarily using magic herself. Breaking the stone sleep spell on the Gargoyles was also similar. I don't think the spell would have been broken if Xanatos, instead of physically moving the castle above the clouds, chose instead to simulate the same conditions in a huge lab or something. The conditions had to fulfilled according to the literal concepts in the spell. That's why spells are written in books and usually spoken.

The CoO work magic the same way, as is very evident in the way Puck handled Demona's instructions. I think the main difference between CoO and human magic is that humans may have to learn how to use it, and can only take magic as far as their physical energies will allow. The Third Race, being made of pure energy, naturally can use magic with lesser expenditures, and can do more radical things because their physical being allows for a much greater cap.

So I agree with Whit and Alex, but I also agree with Matt. Magic can accomplish almost anything (given either the proper training, or if you are just naturally powerful enough) and affect the natural world in different ways, but the effects of which certainly can be pinpointed and explained through scientific observation.

wait...now that I think about it...perhaps xanatos COULD have broken the spell that way...i guess it's just a matter of technology and cost...
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 2:31:06 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

Alex> Yeah, it's a bit of a crazy idea, since the gargoyles clearly turned to stone just fine afterward at that lower barometric pressure, but part of me wonders if there might not have been just enough change that first sundown to promote a sudden shock. It could just as easily be related to decreased oxygen content, perhaps. But somehow that idea of barometric pressure having /some/ role in the stone process is sticking in my head.

asatira> Good question. Most iron is locked in an ore, so maybe the iron oxides aren't as toxic to the children as iron in its purest form. That'd make a certain level of sense, come to think of it; the purer the iron, the more dangerous it is to the Children of Oberon. But even at lower levels it must be toxic. No way that little smithy in the Castle could have made pure iron when that bell was forged; at best it'd be cast iron, with carbon and silicon contamination, and likely some manganese, sulfur and phosphorus as well. Yet Oberon still had a world of pain when the bell was struck. At the same time, Puck wasn't too badly hurt by those chains Demona had him in; more inconvenienced than anything.

I'm gonna get shot again, but all I can think of is something like hemochromatosis; some people are more disposed to iron storage dysfunction and toxicity than others, so perhaps the Children are the same way. Oberon may be the most at risk of ferrotoxicity of all of them so that he's more badly damaged by iron than others; maybe even the resonance frequency caused by striking iron is enough to hurt him somehow.

#> I'm sorry, I really can't make heads or tails of what you're talking about.
Whitbourne
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 2:07:19 pm EST from 69.195.234.161

# > I perceive that your arguments are nonsensical. Apparently, so do many others. Based on your own theory of "The majority thinks X is true, therefore X is true," you may therefore draw from that what you will.
Patrick Toman - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
""I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." - Stephen Hawking
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 1:58:53 pm EST from 70.229.199.185

Fellow zoologist here. Can't really contribute much else to the conversation other than what has already been said. Just one thing about the iron weakness. I've always understood "cold iron" to mean FORGED iron, so not raw iron. I'm thinking something about the smelting process probably changes the make-up in some way that relates to magical energy, hence making it the poison / magic-sink to the Third Race. Good idea? Can anyone support or discredit? Opinions, please.
Asatira
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 1:32:11 pm EST from 66.168.244.117

#>> This is getting ridiculous, now. There is no way water, in its liquid form, will be solid, no matter how many people perceive it as such. Ever.

Let me put you out of our misery.

If commonly held perceptions can change reality, then since it is currently the commonly held perception that commonly held perceptions cannot change reality, reality cannot be changed by commonly held perceptions. And since, according to this principle, as you articulated, reality must adjust to meet this requirement of our commonly held perception that it cannot be altered by commonly held perceptions, this discussion is over, as it must be rendered moot to allow our reality to adjust to this new reality based on our commonly held perception that it cannot be altered by our commonly held perceptions.
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
Blam!
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 1:30:58 pm EST from 216.145.68.246

Alex>Actually you are making an assumption that reality has not come into existence any given moment in a way, that gives it appearance that things have happened in the past. You are falling into the greatest flaw of modern science, by ignoring the great hypocrescy, that nothing can be proven or not proven, only observed and interupted, and of course interpratation is subjective. We can't prove our existence besides believing we exist, that no one is but a figment of some one else's beliefs. I cannot prove anything I say, but that's the point of my arguement that nothing can be proven, and I hate to uses this word since it's considered a dirty word among scientists, but it's simply a question of faith. Everyone has faith that they exist, that the world will be there tomorrow when they wake up, that the past existed.

Pat>I didn't want to bring up the tree and the forest because it's a much harder argument than most accept it for. Science says it makes a sound, but science is based on probability not possibility. We observe a tree falling in the forest and 99% of the time it makes a sound, but there is always a chance that the next time it won't. The only way for something to be "true" is for it to happen an infinite amount of times, and we can't observe a tree falling an infinte amount of times, so we can limit and say by observed behavior it is most probable that it makes a sound. Science is not about conclusion it is about forming hypothesis and theory and changing it to fit new data.

HoE>Yes, actually I am saying you can, but certain things are required and would happen.

1. You would need total doubtless belief that it was solid. Total.

2. The strength of the people believing it was solid would have to be stronger than those that believe it liquid.

3. Reality would correct itself for the inconscitency. That water would be solid since it came into being, and no one would realize it would change.
#
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 1:27:16 pm EST from 172.163.55.25

Matt>> I follow what you're saying, and I might be inclined to agree were it not for the fact that the Children of Oberon, in Greg's world, are not /super/natural. They are subject to the same laws that we are, but we just haven't yet grasped what those laws are.

We know at least two: Energy is energy, and the Children of Oberon are beings of energy. We've seen these laws demonstrated on a couple of occasions; in addition to Oberon's attack on the Eyrie, Puck in "The Mirror" had to "catch his breath" after expending a vast quantity of energy to cast his biggest spell (Maybe his passing out was a feint, but I believe he was honest when he fessed up to Demona).

So what we have to determine is how the Children of Oberon are manipulating energy to suit their purposes, and how those manipulations of energy affect our processes.

But even if it is the case that magic is bound by different rules than our physical world, our physical rule remains bound by its rules; so, again, we're left asking how then-supernatural forces affect us - what rules does magic suspend to acheive its effect?

Further still on the thread of assuming magic is a supernatural force, how do natural beings tap into this force (specifically here to human mages, not Children of Oberon)?

I guess I'm going to have to fall into the same camp as Whit and say it's hard to be satisfied by the explanation that anything which falls outside the present realm of understanding is just supernatural.

What a fun line of discussion this has turned out to be!

Whit>> Fascinating suggestion about there being a barometric pressure effect on stone sleep to serve as a kind of defense mechanism; although that couldn't be a hard rule - i.e., when the barometric pressure drops to x millibars, gargoyles cease to turn to stone - at least from what we've seen. The Manhattan Clan obviously adjusted to what had to be the lower pressure on top of the Eyrie as opposed to the cliffs of Wyvern.

And this introduces an interesting element to the question of what would happen to a gargoyle if placed in orbit around the Earth (in a spaceship for the smartasses in the room). Would the relative lack of pressure affect a gargoyle's sleep cycle in addition to, or even in place of the accelerated sunrise/sunset schedule?

Greg (W) has left it unspoken that a gargoyle would turn to stone in space, and that's about as far as we've gotten (or my archive browsing has gotten) on that.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=3992
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=3842
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
Dorkgasmic!
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 12:09:17 pm EST from 216.145.68.246

Crimson Rogue - "As for comments... I was just thinking, what if Xanatos proposed to help Goliath and Elisa have a child? Maybe through Sevarius or something? How do you think the two would react?"

I think they would decapitate him for even suggesting it, especially if he mentioned Sevarius.
The Sadistic Cow - [kharrigan@imseeingatherapist.com]
Professional baby-devourer for hire. Inquire within.
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 12:08:19 pm EST from 69.157.0.233

Hey gargs, girls, and guys! Long time no post ><

It's been crazy here and I just wanted to say hey and I missed you all. All I need now is to get my job so that I can come see you guys for the gathering.

As for comments... I was just thinking, what if Xanatos proposed to help Goliath and Elisa have a child? Maybe through Sevarius or something? How do you think the two would react?
The Crimson Rogue - [pokechristian@yahoo.com]
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 12:01:28 pm EST from 207.68.227.238

King Cobra 3> I agree that Coldsteel will definately return in the comics (lol, how many villains have used the line, "I'll be bbbaaaccckkkk!") I suspect that if he does return, Xanatos, being the cunning guy he is, will properly have a means of either destroying, deactivating, or enslaving Coldsteel already in place. Beware coldsteel.
Dragomir
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 11:19:19 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Whit> I totally understand your desire to scientifically explain stuff in Gargoyles. Its fun and interesting to do so. I can also relate to your "Jack and the Beanstalk" story. When I was little, i asked my mom if certain pigs, bears and wolves from fairy tales had evolved the ability to talk. Haha. See, while you are more focused on the physiology and medical end, i'm more on the biology-evolutionary science-natural history end. I'm working on my biology degree right now and should have a job at the ST Louis Zoo this summer.

Anyway, my point is that explaining things scientifically is great, but i draw the line with magic.

To me, magic, like god(s) and all that, is a part of the supernatural world, and therefore, by definition, it is beyond the explainations of science, and beyond the ability to be scientifically observed, tested, etc.

So, talking about how magical spells and magiacl beings and magical talismans work scientifically is moot.

Can magic affect the natural world? Sure. Oberon beating up the Eyrie building is evidence of that.
Can the natural world affect magic? Sure. The Children's weakness to iron is evidence of that.

So, they can affect each other and not be part of the same thing. The natural world isn't magical and magic isn't part of the natural world.

As for how spells and such work, I would guess that the spells themselves don't create energy or matter, but merely force it to behave unnaturally. For instance, I would guess that the Weird Sister's spell on Demona and Macbeth doesn't give their cells infinite reproduction abilities, but rather stops their cells from going through mitosis at all. The magic compensates for the problems this would cause, but essentially it does exactly what the spell says it does, it stops them from aging.

Why would Demona's cells age if the spell says she doesn't age? To me it seems clear that her cells are not aging either.

Coldsteel> Some of you have said that Coldsteel/Iago are insane, but i see no evidence for that. He is simply a gargoyle with some bad personality traits. Hes jealous of Othello and possessive of Desdemona. Hes not the ideal of gargoyle morals, but I don't think hes insane or evil. I'd like to see his character built a bit in the comics, if possible. We really don't know a lot about him.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 10:35:58 am EST from 150.201.66.47

Ugh, not psuedoscience.

Still playing along in the Children of Oberon as biological creatures track, I think it's worth clarifying that they likely wouldn't be able to just "will" something to be. There would have to be manipulation of matter and energy in such a manner that we likely wouldn't be able to explain, but that nevertheless follows some natural principle that we haven't elucidated yet. We know that "magic" has limits according to the laws of physics; "energy is energy", after all, and so Oberon's magic was nearly thwarted by a barrier of electomagnetic energy, something designed using available technology and run by mechanical turbines. If Oberon were able to alter realtity just by force of will and perception, likely he wouldn't have to have gone to all the trouble he did. However it would be that the Children would do it, it's not simply by force of will or shared perception.

Likely, "human" magic would work the same way, or at least, according to the same principle. Take the stone sleep spell that the Magus cast on the clan. I'm of the opinion that stone sleep is triggered by a neuroendocrine process; some circadean rhythm triggers a signal in the brain, likely from the pineal gland or its gargoyle equivalent, which triggers a neuroendocrine cascade. Neural impulses to start the process, maintained by hormones which keep the cells in stasis and reach a trough level coinciding with sundown. When hormone levels drop, stone sleep ends, and, proably triggered by another neuronal signal, the gargoyles "come to life". The reticular activating system in the gargoyle brainstem probably plays a role, too...all kinds of seratonin and melatonin stuff going on. Wacky!

The Magus' spell likely worked by having an effect on that neuroendocrine process; somehow, he was able to "fool" that circadean rhythm and that neuroendocrine axis into staying in daylight mode. If there is a hormone that autoregulates the amount of stone sleep that a gargoyle gets, then perhaps what the spell did would be to continually replenish that hormone level, and suppress the waking neuronal signal or alter the signals travelling through the reticular activating system (the part of the brain that deals with consciousness and sleep/wake cycles). That magical spell would probably have a measurable effect on hormone levels, and I'm sure that if someone slapped some EEG electrodes on Goliath in 1984, they'd probably see a pattern similar to that when we're unconsciousness. The point is that the energy of the spell probably had a real and measurable effect on the gargoyles neurochemistry and endocrine systems, as opposed to #'s interpretation, where likely the gargoyles just stayed asleep because they percieved themselves to be asleep.

How that "magical" energy would translate into a neuroendocrine change, I'm not sure. "Magic", I suppose, though I still figure that there would be some way that the mechanism of the magic spell could be teased out. Who knows? Maybe a pharmaceutical could be developed that would do exactly the same thing as the Magus' spell - a thousand year prescription for Trazodone.

We could go really out there, too and wonder if the fact that having the castle raised above the clouds caused the spell to break means that stone sleep has a bit of a barometric pressure element to it as well. The higher you go, the lower the hormone level? Might be /somewhat/ protective against turning to stone in midflight, or at least provide some kind of instinctive behaviour to seek lower ground.

Who knows? I'm sure Greg Weisman never figured that a neurology nerd would try to tease it out when he was writing this stuff. I think I need a life. :-)
Whitbourne
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 10:30:30 am EST from 69.195.234.161

Dragomir> Anyone unfamiliar with Xanatos' true character would probably think that he had no goals beyond freeing Othello, and Desdemona, and (worse of all) Iago from the Coldstone shell.

However, being an avid fan of the show for years, and looking at this rationally, I agree with you that there's a deeper picture here. Xanatos is not content with freeing I/O/D alone. Maybe he wants to somehow manipulate Iago against his enemies. Maybe not. But, either way, Iago is bound to come after the Manhattan Clan again. It's inevitable. Remeber what he said as he flew off at the end of "Possessions"?

"I'll be baaack...!!"

How would Xanatos handle that scenario if Iago returned with vengeful bloodlust on his mind?
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 10:26:51 am EST from 209.239.132.201

Oops. My comment to Patrick should have gone to Whit instead. My mistake.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 10:10:09 am EST from 69.174.3.196

Dragomir: Xanatos had to impress the spirit of Iago with the Coldsteel robot enough so that Iago would WANT to inhabit it. Hence the reason for all the nifty accessories. But you'll notice that he also gave Coldfire some nice toys as well.

Patrick: I think the Third Race would only be bothered by the iron in the Earth's crust if they came across a high concentration of it somewhere. Oberon was bothered by the bell, the harpoon, and the iron gargoyle robot because they all contained pure iron. So I guess it's a good thing none of them live on Mars. Then they'd need gloves and snowpants.

#: Are you saying that if I can get enough people into a room and get them to perceive water as a solid, it will alter its physical properties into a substance with mass, volume, AND a shape? I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. We could perceive that the sun is made of vanilla pudding, but I guess if we did that, it would stop warming the Earth, because I don't think pudding contains enough hydrogen to undergo thermonuclear fusion at a point of intense heat and pressure. The Ancient Chinese "perceived" that during a total solar eclipse, the sun was being devoured by a dragon. Does that mean that before more modern astronomy, it was caused by a dragon and not the moon?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"You made me, remember? You dropped me into that vat of chemicals! That wasn't easy to get over. Don't think that I didn't try!" -Jack Nicholson as The Joker
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 10:08:38 am EST from 69.174.3.196

Greg> Thanks for the answer Greg.

One thing that has always bugged me about the Coldsteel episode is why the heck would Xanatos let Iago run off with such an incredibly strong robot body? I know Puck's and Alexander's spell wouldn't have worked unless Iago desired to be transfered into Coldsteel, meaning the body had to be of good quality (nor outdated like the old steel clan robots). But why let him keep it afterward? Xanatos is no one's fool, I just can't believe that he would allow an insane gargoyle spirit to fly away in a fast healing killing machine with electrified tentacles. I would have expected him to flip an off switch or blow him up with a self-destruct mechanism or something, maybe use a virus on him like Coldstone was once exposed to.

Does Xanatos have plans to use Coldsteel as a weapon in the future using a secret remote control? thats a scary thought, which would indeed prove he hasn't stopped scheming...
Dragomir
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 9:05:32 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Finally finished it late last night. I seriously need to get more sleep soon. Click my name for the video. I upload it to my webpage later today

Much credit goes to Spoonvestup for inspiring me with her Teen Titans AMV with this song. :D

This AMV involved a Brooklyn/Maggie/Talon triangle. And is very sympathetic towards Brooklyn. Okay, everyone cringe at once, I used a LOT of TGC episodes (Mainly Runaways) for this one. It had a lot of brooding/depressed Brooklyn moments, so I had to use it. :P
The song may not be liked by some. It has a desperate, and depressed drunk feel to it.

Retold some of their story. Maggie is set to marry Talon, but is making this all very hard on Brooklyn. She is still visiting him, she loves Talon, but is still somewhat confused as what to do because of Brooklyn's affection towards her. He watches them together and it hurts more. And Talon doesn't like the idea of Maggie visiting him. Brooklyn tries to console himself and also tries to make her jealous by getting a "beauty queen" (his date for the event). But his feelings for her are no different. The wedding is coming soon and the tension between the three of them are building. At the wedding, Brooklyn (dressed for the occassion) finally loses it, hurts Talon, Maggie runs away, he tries to convince her, but he sees he did more damage then good for all of them. Brooklyn finally comes to realization they can never be together, Maggie has chosen Talon, he simply reflects before trying to move on.

I have no idea what "I have a ribbon of green on my guitar" means. For the purpose of this video, I am thinking it may mean like a rememberance ribbon.
http://media.putfile.com/Gargoyles-AMV-Cheers-Darlin-Brooklyn-Talon-Maggie">Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
Click my name for my newest Gargoyles (Brooklyn/Maggie/Talon) music video!
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 8:45:44 am EST from 65.33.112.205

Reality and the human perception of it exist independantly of each other. This argument of "common perception makes it so" is very much akin to the question of whether a tree that falls in the forest when no one is around makes a sound. We do not have to be there to hear it happen to know that it must according to the laws of the physical world as we understand them. Yes, our understanding of the universe has changed over time, but that doesn't mean that at one time the universe revolved around the earth, or that the earth was flat. It just means that at one time the widely held perception was wrong.

I can stick feather in my hat and call it macaroni, and maybe I can get the rest of you to call it macaroni, too. But that doesn't mean I will suddenly have pasta on my head.

And on that, I'll stop before I start making sense. :P

110 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick Toman - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
""I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." - Stephen Hawking
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 7:50:23 am EST from 70.229.199.185

HoE>> You're right, it was Copernicus. I went with Galileo because he did most of the work to prove Copernicus, thus making Copernicus' theory "commonly held."

#>> Rule of rhetoric: Circles, in logic and in form, don't have points.

Let's address this question from another perspective: What's your threshold?

Here's your statement:
"And I'm not saying humans control it, because they're may be a greater number out there dictating how we perceive things."

So, then, one of three things /must/ be true.
1) There are many things out there, among them it is commonly held that we exist, and so we exist.

2) There is nothing else out there, and since we all believe in ourselves, we exist.

3) There are many things out there, among them it is not commonly held that we exist, and so we don't exist.

If either point one or two is correct, how many of the believers must believe in something in order to make it real? How many people have to side with HoE in order to start walking on water? 40%? 50%? 51%? 60%? 99.999%?

Or even if point three is correct, the many things out there don't know we exist, how do we account for our existence? Will power?

"What is a fact besides the most commonly held opinion at any given time?"

Facts exist regardless if someone, or anyone, believes them or not; whether or not we recognize or understand them at a given moment is what's in question, but that doesn't make them exist or not exist as parts of reality. Facts can't be wrong, what people /say/ are facts can be.

Our moon was never made of cheese. The Earth was never the center of the universe. We can only walk on water if we generate enough surface tension. If everyone stops believing Galileo ever existed, that's not going to make his buried bones disappear *poof*. These things are not "mutable."

Well, people might destroy Galileo's bones to make sure people believe he never existed.

And what's this about not being able to prove time exists before a perceived time? Can I personally, physically prove that time existed before Nov. 22, 1984?

Well, okay, I had to be conceived at some point, so I can prove time back to Feb. 1984. And my parents had to be conceived at some point to conceive me, so I can further prove time back to Aug. 1948. And I can do this proof of lineage back to the 1560s, but I've got nothing on the parentage of certain ancestors, though; but we don't have any birth certificates for some ancestors. So, by your logic, they must have just *poof* appeared because it was commonly held that my family must exist.

I say it, it must be true!

Do you see the problem here? Who makes up the "We" that makes these determinations? At what point does something become "commonly held" to be true?

Forget the circular logic, define "commonly held." How many people do I have to convince that time didn't start until 1560 to get all the history books rewritten?
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 12:22:28 am EST from 216.145.68.246

HoE>But remeber you have to fight the strength of everyone's will power that percieves water as liquid not solid, so just you percieving it as such, will not change the state, but if enough people percieved it, it would change, problem being is that reality would correct itself, making sure that water was always a solid, making the point of the change moot, since you wouldn't even realize you changed anything.
#
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 12:17:57 am EST from 172.134.150.225

Found this in the Ask Greg archives...

" Gargoyles are the first of these three. That is, the oldest. They don't do any magic themselves. Turning to stone is a biological process. Turning they're gear to stone was a human magical spell, inflicted upon them.

Humans evolved second.

The Children incubated in magic and "evolved" third."
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I apologise. I'm .. sorry. I'm sorry we had to defend ourselves against an unwarranted attack. I'm sorry that your crew was stupid enough to fire on a station filled with a quarter million civilians, including your own people. And I'm sorry I waited as long as I did before I blew them all straight to Hell. .. As with everything else, it's the thought that counts." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sun, Mar 5, 2006 12:16:36 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Another quick run through the comment room for me...

The third race are long lived beings of pure energy, many of whom consider themselves superior to humans. Reminds me of another race from another show staring Frakes and Sirtis.

Iron oxidizes readily and rapidly compared to many other metals. Maybe its reactivity has has something to do with why it's such a problem for the fay. Of course, there has to be more to it than just iron's physical and chemical properties. Oberon was brought to his knees by the ringing of an iron bell. The metal itself never even touched him.

ZOMG!!111eleventyone111! There are 111 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"No, kitty, that's mah pot pie!" - Eric Cartman
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 11:58:47 pm EST from 70.229.199.185

I always thought that the Third Race was the oldest of the three races in the series. Which is why they regard gargoyles and humans as mere pests or play things most of the time, while others, like Grandmother, feel the responsibility to look after and guide the younger races.
Dragomir
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 11:40:50 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Nono, I meant to be in that ballpark. Organism was meant to be encompassing of the whole population of that organism; but that's poor word choice.

My bad.

But is it really "random change" taken out to the whole population? For a successful genetic trait to thrive, even if its origins are random, it has to be "field tested" for generations. Inferior traits are weeded out, superior ones survive until being ubiquitous in the population.

Or am I just further proving ignorance on the matter?
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 11:32:49 pm EST from 216.145.68.246

Christine: Oh, no doubts that Puck is a sick son of a bitch. Look at what he put Goliath through, simply because "the rules" prevented him from just taking the Phoenix Gate. Makes one think that perhaps Xanatos was wise in choosing Owen over a wish. But by that token, if Xanatos knew that a trickster's gifts come with a price, it makes one wonder why he was hunting Coyote (well, we know why, but what I mean is, did Xanatos know that Coyote might have found some way to twist his words, much like Puck did with Demona's).

#: I'm afraid I've got to go with the majority on this one. I can "perceive " that water is a solid, but I'll still sink in it when I try to walk on it. We're still bound by the laws that govern our universe. And Evolution isn't so much a perception as it is a theory. There's no way to prove it in a laboratory, but there's lots of evidence suggesting that's the reason we're sitting here having this argument. And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Copernicus was the one who first suggested a Heliocentric Solar System.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"You made me, remember? You dropped me into that vat of chemicals! That wasn't easy to get over. Don't think that I didn't try!" -Jack Nicholson as The Joker
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 11:30:12 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

Sorry for the double post.

Whit>I never said indvidualistic evolution. I said that evolution is adaptation to the enviroment and that can be biological, social, or technological.

The first man to realize that a sharp stick was better than a blunt one is the most obvious realization of technological evolution. The creature who reaqlized being in a group was better than being alone is the most obvious of social evolution.

The final stages of evolution is total malability to one's enviroments since at that point you do not need to change anymore.

But in accordance the final stages of evolution can be defined as total control of one's enviroment so that one doesn't not need to change anymore.
#
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 11:25:14 pm EST from 172.134.150.225

I was kidding around.

The Ramtha Cult though says a lot of the things you're saying right now, though.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I apologise. I'm .. sorry. I'm sorry we had to defend ourselves against an unwarranted attack. I'm sorry that your crew was stupid enough to fire on a station filled with a quarter million civilians, including your own people. And I'm sorry I waited as long as I did before I blew them all straight to Hell. .. As with everything else, it's the thought that counts." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 11:21:37 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Alex>Of course it's circular. That is the point, we define it, as it defines us. And you only have half the argument, correct. The rest is that any time before a percieved time cannot be proven to actually exist unless we say it existed. So Gallielo may have not existed, or he may have, it becomes mutable by what we accept.

What is a fact besides the most commonly held opinion at any given time?

Greg>No, I don't belong to any cult. Belonging to any one form of beliefs is too limiting.

And I'm not saying humans control it, because they're may be a greater number out there dictating how we percieve things.

That's the great thing about reality, we can never truely understand it.
#
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 11:15:48 pm EST from 172.134.150.225

I don't think your understanding of evolution is quite right. Evolution isn't adapting to your environment on an individual level, it's random change providing some kind of happenstance advantage for survival and genetic propagation on a population level.

Individuals don't evolve; only populations do. A singular being doesn't achieve some kind of highre level of existence, though a mutation in a cell receptor might confer increased immunity to, say, an H5N1 influenza virus, and thus give that individual a greater chance to survive a flu pandemic.
Whitbourne
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 11:10:03 pm EST from 207.179.172.220

You're not part of that Ramtha cult, are you?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I apologise. I'm .. sorry. I'm sorry we had to defend ourselves against an unwarranted attack. I'm sorry that your crew was stupid enough to fire on a station filled with a quarter million civilians, including your own people. And I'm sorry I waited as long as I did before I blew them all straight to Hell. .. As with everything else, it's the thought that counts." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 10:54:39 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

I also have a problem with that idea becuase it implies that human perceptions define our reality. As if the universe revolved around them...
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 10:51:54 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

#>> According to your logic, then, before Kepler all planets orbited the Sun in perfect circles, and before Galileo the Earth was the center of the solar system. Or, in the same stream, when the Ancient Greeks and Egyptians knew the world was round, the world was indeed round, but by Medieval times, the world flattened itself to match perceptions, then rounded out in modern times to match the rediscovered understanding of its roundness.

I'm sorry, but this just isn't making sense; and not in the way that I think it's above me to understand (unlike Whit's understanding of medicine and biology), but because your argument is circular: reality is defined by reality-based perceptions of reality, though ultimately perception is reality. A depends on B depends on A depends on B, and so on.

If one defines the other, one cannot /be/ the other, or else it's the same thing.

And evolution is not based in perception, it is based in circumstance - entirely different. If an organism is having trouble surviving in its environment, it either adapts or remains constant and alters the environment.
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
Dorkgasmic!
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 10:46:06 pm EST from 216.145.68.246

Greg>But what are Evolution and God, but commonly held perceptions of reality?

If something evolves far enough it loses the ability to define itself, and must be defined by that which is around it, for that is what evolution is, the ability to take what one's surroundings impose on you and adapt to them. So when something reaches maximum evolution it therefore is completely defined by it's surroundings. I won't bring up God because that's a whole other arguement.

The universal consciousness idea is as valid in talking about creation of beings as a God or evolution because it states, if enough people choose to believe something with enough conviction, reality corrects itself to accept the new perception of reality, and makes it so that is the only reality ever known, with no idea that it ever changed.

Perceptions define reality.
#
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 10:21:22 pm EST from 172.134.150.225

Obed>> I follow your argument, and I think the primary point of difference between us is that I conceive as spirituality to be something other than energy, not a manifestation of it.

Spirituality, to me, is grounded in interpretation of things that *are*. Because people could not understand the Children of Oberon, at one time they were revered as gods, and that developed a kind of spirituality. Or, because we can't understand what God is, or even if God is, we interpret certain phenomena and find a way to trace it back to the entity we call God, and that belief informs a sense of spirituality.

Or even further away from the discussion of the physical, interpreting the relationships of things to ourselves and us to others takes on a kind of spirituality - e.g., pantheism.

But once reason begins to take over, once we start understanding certain things in terms of physical science, we lose that sense of mysticism in the way things work; not to suggest that there aren't metaphysical forces, but I don't think those necessarily fall into something for science to explain.

It's a tricky thing, I'll give you that. I think we need to be looking at the Taijitu; elements of the metaphysical making themselves manifest in the world of the physical, and physical things being manifest in the metaphysical.

Oh, this is much more fun than interpreting the Brutus Papers.

#>> Cogito, ergo sunt?

Mind over matter is one thing, but mind *generating* matter is very difficult to accept. Even tele/psychokinesis relies on the manipulation of matter which exists.

And how do the Children of Oberon play into this? If they lose the idea of themselves, do they die?

Gaiman doesn't necessarily come into play, here, because dreaming of the creation of an alternate reality is just a starting point to making it realized, but through physical means. If cats all realized that they wanted to control the world (and to an extent I'm sure they already do), then they'd begin behaving in such a way to make it real. Very different from simply dreaming it and waking up one morning to find its realization.

And, as Greg (B) just pointed out, we're limited in the elasticity of this reality because Greg (W) has said that the Children are a "natural" race.
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
Dorkgasmic!
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 10:06:20 pm EST from 216.145.68.246

I've always thought Owen had his vicious, sadistic little streak. It was just subtle. Sneaky. Remember how -- and more importantly, WHEN -- he chose to inform Goliath that Elisa had been shot? Very bastardly, that :D
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 10:05:41 pm EST from 71.112.172.65

# > The Children of Oberon exist in the Gargoyles Universe for the same reason everything else does. Evolution, God, both... pick your poison.

I believe Greg said they were the last of the three races to come into being. The magic took longer to incubate. They did evolve out of Will o' wisps.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I apologise. I'm .. sorry. I'm sorry we had to defend ourselves against an unwarranted attack. I'm sorry that your crew was stupid enough to fire on a station filled with a quarter million civilians, including your own people. And I'm sorry I waited as long as I did before I blew them all straight to Hell. .. As with everything else, it's the thought that counts." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 9:51:19 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

whit and alex garg, I think you guys have a compelling and theoretically correct argument, but it still only works on the assumption that magic is a another form of energy. I think it leaves out the spiritual/mystical aspect, which I think magic is only a superficial representation of.

When I think about the Children of Oberon and their purely magical nature, I tend to view them as spirits. I think of them as being spirits that take on corporeal bodies of their own creation. Also, we know that there is a difference between human magic and CoO magic, as the Avalon-Grimorum situation illustrated. Which means that they must function on fundamentally different levels.

Even so, I'm pretty sure that the spells, effects, and powers we saw many of the Third Race employ are only a superficial expression of what magic is. I'm inclined to think that magic is another aspect of reality that sort of exists apart from what science is capable of explaining...even with quantam physics. That doesn't mean it's a mystery, I just think it requires its own area of study. Some people call it spirituality / religion / mysticism / withcraft / sorcery or what have you. In almost all of the cases I have ever seen magic used in fantasy, it appears as a superior force to anything in the physical universe, being able to manipulate and affect it in a way that is not mutual. To me that encompasses the idea of the spiritual, something that doesn't technically exist within the material world and its confines, yet still has the ability to affect it in without much scientific evidence.

I'm sure it'd be possible to examine the aftermath of something like Puck's spells on the citizens of manhattan, but it wouldn't be clear through a scientific examination of how those effects came to be.

But...then again, that's just MY interpretation of what magic is. I tend to favor metaphysical and philosophical explanations for things like this, and I'm sure any one of us can come up with a theory about magic that is viable because not enough information is given about its nature in the series.

Oh and Greg B: Ya, I only had a cursory glance at the description about the Bad Guys spinoff and who would be in it. I only vaguely remembered the characters that would be in it, so I sort of mentally lumped some of the leftover villains in my head and assumed that's who was in it...heh. my bad.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 9:36:07 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

Maybe the Third Race is simply a concept race. Voids and nulls that become substance because one desires them to be, one desires them to have the powers they have, one desires them to act that way.

A simple of question of definable reality by our perceptions of it. If we believe that a creature is stronger than us, will it make it so? Does a universe consciousness exist and in turn can it form things that are beyond the concepts of physical reality?

Will Odin exist because we want him to exist? Do the stories told of a god being, through nordic tribes dictate to reality that this diety must exist and therefore he does?

Is that not what magic is? The ability of one to influence the reality percieved about them. Would a magical being be that? A creature that a group thought must existed so they must exist?

Neil Gaiman, in one of his issues of Sandman, retold a tale about this subject. "If enough cats dreamed they controlled the world, would reality adjust itself to make it so?"

Are magical beings just concepts that came into existence because we desired them? I personally am not sure, but I would not doubt the elasticity of reality.
#
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 9:24:31 pm EST from 172.134.150.225

Sorry for the double post, but I just wanted to tell Jade that it looked more to me like Puck was just trying to make the most of his situation in "The Mirror." I think the main reason he looked so unhappy at first was because he materialized in Demona's hideaway only to find himself bound by iron. So after some annoyance, he figured he'd just roll with it. As he said, "this might just be fun after all." But as far as the ending is concerned, I'm wondering with the way he was manipulating things throughout the episode, would his gift to Demona have been that much different at the end if she hadn't brushed him off? Maybe, but I doubt it.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 9:15:53 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

Iron is a great conductor of electromagnetic energy. And who knows? Maybe it's not just iron, but all elements that are in Group 8 of the periodic table, which would have fairly similar properties.

"The children of Oberon are vulnerable to nae but cold iron. And ruthenium. Cold osmium, too. And one fae who leaved near a nuclear accelerator was harmed by a few unstable isotopes of hassium, once."

Hey, something else. How do Children of Oberon do so well on earth when they're allergic to an element that is the fourth most abundant in Earth's crust and makes up a quarter of earth's core?
Whitbourne
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 9:11:44 pm EST from 207.179.172.220

Whitbourne: Greg has said that it's an organic substance that resembles stone. So if one really wanted, they could get into a drawn-out discussion of just what the chemical properties of that are. Me, I'm in the camp of "stone sleep cures everything." It looked as if Angela's heart had stopped at the beginning of "Hunter's Moon, Part Two," and despite being legally dead for a minute, all she felt the next night was a little tired, but not so tired that she wasn't immediately back in action.

I imagine back in the 10th and 11th centures, the usual injuries sustained by gargoyles were things like burns, arrows, concussions, and stab wounds. Not only did Angela seem to have some cardiac damage, but we had never seen a gargoyle fall from the height that she did. Well, we had, but they usually caught the wall their talons, and didn't land on their back on top of a car (leaving a sizable dent). So we're probably talking a spinal injury there, and unless she's very lucky, internal bleeding.

My point is, if she went through that and all she felt after a day of stone hibernation was a little tired, I think there's very little it can't do. Infection is another story, but the manner in which they awake at night makes me think that any cellular abnormalities might be flushed out of them in the external layer of "stone."

Of course, I'm also speculating about the true nature of Angela's injuries. But that speculation was based on the fact that at the end of "Part One," she took more punishment than we normally see a gargoyle take.

As for the Third Race, I think first we need to determine if they even have DNA. The other two races do, and if the Third Race possessed it, it might help to explain how they can use magic on humans and gargoyles (since the DNA of just about every organism is 90 percent identical).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"You made me, remember? You dropped me into that vat of chemicals! That wasn't easy to get over. Don't think that I didn't try!" -Jack Nicholson as The Joker
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 9:05:24 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

Obed> Coldsteel was going to continue to be a villain in "Gargoyles", Greg never mentioned him showing up in "Bad Guys". Not that he wouldn't, but Coldsteel really has no connections to any of those characters.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I apologise. I'm .. sorry. I'm sorry we had to defend ourselves against an unwarranted attack. I'm sorry that your crew was stupid enough to fire on a station filled with a quarter million civilians, including your own people. And I'm sorry I waited as long as I did before I blew them all straight to Hell. .. As with everything else, it's the thought that counts." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 9:03:02 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Siren > RE: the article on TV violence.

Right up until I saw ep 3x5 'Haunted', I would have agreed with you (mostly) about Teen Titans.
I was honestly shocked that episode made it past the censors intact.
Robin and Slade have always had a disturbing dynamic, but this episode was more text than sub, the level of violence was high and Robin was very visibley damaged - costume torn and bleeding wounds.

I still liked the episode a lot, but I can see how people would look at that and wonder if it was appropriate for their <10yo to watch.
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 9:02:42 pm EST from 202.87.162.31

Obed>> Which is where I would pick up with Whit's introduction of quantum physics/theory.

What we experience exists within a set of physical rules, but quantum physics is beyond our present understanding of the world; however, recent experiement with light have shown that quantum properties can manifest themselves in our world, but that happens after expending a certain amount of energy.

Delineating things into polar opposites is a very tricky thing. True, chaos and order are polar opposites, but you can't define one without the other. Same with good and evil, or material and immaterial.

But I have to side with Whit, here, that magic and the manipulation of energy have to be one in the same; going beyond the Children of Oberon, we saw this when the Magus cast a spell sans Grimorum on Avalon - it drained him. This strongly suggests that magic is energy, and what the Children of Oberon have managed to do is make its manipulation part of their makeup so that they aren't hurt by its expenditure.

And Greg (W) has said that Children of Oberon are, essentially, creatures of energy which take forms that appeal to them. I would gather from this that it's entirely possible for a Child of Oberon to be invisible and simply be a formless mass of energy.

My question in all of this, then, is what is it about iron that makes it so damaging to these creatures of energy?

Back to the original question>> Whit, I think you hold status as being one of the most knowledgeable persons in the field of biology and medicine in this fandom, so up front I'm not going to try and match that. I'll just be outlining my idea and, hopefully, not stray too far from what could be an acceptable interpretation of biology.

The stone sleep, in my opinion and to my understanding, is more than just a wound-healing mechanism; it is part of an advanced immune system. We know that certain biological functions continue while a gargoyle is sleeping (e.g., brain functions manifested in dreams), as they would have to lest a gargoyle go to sleep and never wake up.

What I suspect is that a gargoyle's immune system doesn't struggle with the same identification problems that a human's does; it can recognize infected and/or cancerous cells on a level that ours cannot. When a gargoyle goes to sleep, these cells are identified, isolated (perhaps by a calcification method, not unlike a lithopedion) and left out of the transformation of the rest of the body from flesh to "stone." Once this happens, the infected cells no longer have a host to sustain them, and they die out during the day then are either absorbed or dejected as waste.

I would guess, then, that a gargoyle would be threatened by one of two kinds of viruses: either one that is very virulent and can kill over the course of an evening, or one that can survive throughout the day.

Of course, genetic diseases would pose another range of issues, and certainly those were not uncommon even for Medieval gargoyles.

Maybe because of their advanced immune system, a form of lupus poses the greatest threat to a gargoyle; or maybe there is a condition in which the afflicted gargoyle /does not/ turn to stone during the day.

Gargoyles and temperature>> Higher-than-human resistance. Temperature drops between 3-4 degrees F every 1,000 feet, and then if you add in a wind chill factor generated from gliding around, it becomes clear that having human tolerances to cold does not make for very attractive gliding.
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
Dorkgasmic!
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 8:56:59 pm EST from 216.145.68.246

The thing about nights on call is that sometimes there's no time to do anything, and sometimes there's nothing but time to reply to comments that quite honestly are truly engaging.

Dragomir> "I get what you are saying man, but if you actually asked Mr. weisman about the subject, I'm sure he'd tell you that the fay are in fact composed of an unfathomable source of power known only as magic. If the unexplained bothers you that much, why would you watch a show jam packed with mystical creatures and wizardry and what not?"

Because for me, it's fun to figure something out, to understand how it works. That's one reason I like medicine so much; because physiology, damnable and frustrating though it is at exam time, is fascinating. Just because they were intended to be creatures of pure magic doesn't mean there isn't an alternative, right? I can still watch the show and enjoy the magic elements of it, but the whole time there's an unspoken question of "how do they do that? How does that work? How can Oberon make that happen, and how come Vinnie can't? What if it wasn't magic, but something else?" To me, that's the sign of a truly fine piece of entertainment; something that sparks question after question after question, even though the answer is most likely pedantic and of interest to no one but yourself.

And I guess from this comes another question - so what the heck /is/ magic, anyway? One reason I tend to press at it so much is that it literally, to me, seems like a strange vacuum, a word that can be used to clean up everything unexplained and encapsulate it in a five letter package. But what is it? How does it work? What can it be compared to? Are there rules and laws that it follows? If so, why, and why not something else?

I take your point, obed, that it can be meant to be something beyond understanding - a counteract to a more rational way of thinking - but that doesn't answer much. How does it counteract it? If we knoew more about it, could it be just part of science and rationalism that follows different rules or has different observable effects?

And of course it isn't real, and it makes the whole debate kind of academic, but there lies another dichotomy - why do so many people appeal to it? What is it about the idea of magic that appeals to so many people? Why is it that some people prefer to have something unknown and unknowable, as opposed to something testable and proveable? Is it backlash, or is it appeal to something ancient inside us? Why are some people content to have "magic" be the end of the sentence?

That's one thing I like about Gargoyles - there were elements of both, and it can appeal to both sorts of people. And within the debate, even if in the story itself there are things that can be only explained with magic - well, there come all sorts of sociological and anthropolical questions in and of themselves.

What is magic? Why is it so central to our stories? Why do some of us want to embrace it while others want to dissect it?

Pedantic, I know, but this is genuinely engaging stuff to me.
Whitbourne
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 8:48:16 pm EST from 207.179.172.220

Dragomir: actually I'm pretty sure Yama and Coldsteel become a part of that Bad Guys spinoff. Though I'm thinking that it WOULD make sense that not EVERY gargoyle out there would be a goody goody. Then again, the desire to protect is very strong in a gargoyle, therefore, I don't think many would abandon that all-important aspect of gargoyle being, even with disagreements on methods. For the most part, gargoyle clans seem to be close-knit and small groups. But still, it would add a lot of compelling and varied characters. I'm not sure much of that would be explored since the story will take place in manhattan and contact with other gargoyle clans will be limited to none. In fact, we only saw the other clans because of the World Tour.

We might be misunderstanding gargoyle concepts of morality too...i think their beliefs about protection/right and wrong overlap with humans, but we know firsthand how vengeful most gargoyles can be, including the main cast. The episode where goliath manipulates sevarius comes to mind. The desire to protect is stronger than a loyalty to moralistic principles, it seems.

whoops. looks like i kinda went on a little ramble there.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 8:45:47 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

Starlioness> A lot of people seem to take Brooklyn's line there to literally.

Cold does not bother gargoyles like us. But they can still have their own preferences.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I apologise. I'm .. sorry. I'm sorry we had to defend ourselves against an unwarranted attack. I'm sorry that your crew was stupid enough to fire on a station filled with a quarter million civilians, including your own people. And I'm sorry I waited as long as I did before I blew them all straight to Hell. .. As with everything else, it's the thought that counts." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 8:42:12 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

so about Gargoyles and Temperature.. so they're supposed to be more resistant than humans or invulvernable? I know at least Brooklyn reacts to heat and cold..
Starlioness
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 8:36:00 pm EST from 70.58.67.109

Whit> I get what you are saying man, but if you actually asked Mr. weisman about the subject, I'm sure he'd tell you that the fay are in fact composed of an unfathomable source of power known only as magic. If the unexplained bothers you that much, why would you watch a show jam packed with mystical creatures and wizardry and what not? (not an insult whit, an honest inquiry. I'm actually enjoying this debate, my first on this site, how am I doing?). (:

I'm amazed by all the different varieties of gargoyles out there, from the demon like Scottish gargs to the animal like British variety. I wonder how they all evolved so differently. Better check the garg biology room, (:

One thing I would love to see in the new comics is Demona gathering together a clan of her own to combat the Quarrymen, as well as the Manhattan Clan. I think two good candidates would be the banished and disgraced Ishimura gargoyle Yama, assuming he doesn't become part of the Bad Guys series I heard about, and Coldsteel, who seemed to enjoy cooperating with Demona back when he was part of Coldstone. The other members could include various rogue gargs from around the world, they're bound to be out there somewhere (maybe an Avalon garg gone bad like Christine Morgan's Jericho). What do you guys think?
Dragomir
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 8:30:28 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

I don't think magic can simply be explained as just energy. Magic doesn't exist...and in every fantasy world where it does exist, it has a different properties and is treated differently. See the thing about rationalizing everything is that it breaks down when you come to something like magic, spirituality, and the supernatural. I think magic is representative of the mystical aspect of nature, and I tend to view it as a counterpart to what science can explain in reality.

I think trying to rationalize magic within the scope of science is the same as applying a moralistic concept to chaos when order and chaos are merely two opposing concepts, neither being good or evil, since moral perception is an element of order.

I think magic can be rationalized but only within its own limits, which are dictated by the particular world in which it exists. Magic isn't just another form of energy, it's a completely different aspect of reality. The mystical part, the part that is governed largely by a whole lot of unknowns that humans haven't discovered yet. There's still a lot that humans haven't explained even scientifically...so it's logical to assume that the mystical is largely a big question mark too.

But even so...magic isn't real, so in order to be able to enjoy it in a give story, suspension of disbelief is utterly necessary or else we'll be constantly incredulous of the story.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 8:24:26 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

Sorry, but a hardcore little rationalist like me can't buy that there isn't a naturalistic explanation for the Children of Oberon. My own understanding of quantum physics is superficial enough that I'd probably get it shriekingly wrong if I tried, but I'd still go more for hitherto unexplained or unelucidated sceintific principles before I'd go for magic.

The reason is that "magic" doesn't really mean anything in that context. What /is/ magic? Where does it come from? How does it work? Why does it work? What makes it work? What makes it not work? Appealing to "magic" as an explanation is pretty much scientific agnosticism - we don't know, and we likely can't know.

But we used to think that nothing so heavy as steel could fly, and the concept of radioactivity was utterly alien to the people who came before folks like Curie and Roentgen and Cavendish. Likewise, the nature of the physical world is alien to us on a particle level. I heard once that according to Maxwell's Laws (I think) we can't actually "touch" things; what we feel when we touch is related to electromagnetic fields generated by the particles that make us up. (I'm probably butchering that, but I think the idea's roughly there).

So, just because we can't explain Oberon's children without appealing to weird, wacky quantum physics...well, what's more likely? That it's due to their being made up of some weird, inestimable, unfathomable energy called magic, or that we just haven't figured out the physics that might make such a being possible? Ockham would go with the latter, and I usually go with Ockham.

(By the way - totally got the diagnosis wrong in that last post. That'd be Goodpasture's syndrome, not Wegner's granulomatosis. It means more to me likely because I have an exam in nephrology coming up in three short weeks.)
Whitbourne
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 7:53:15 pm EST from 207.179.172.220

Well Whit, you made a very compelling argument, and I'm sure you are right that the magical energy that makes Demona and MacBeth immortal do whatever it is they have to in order to keep them breathing. However, there are some things that science can't explain, especially when it comes to the third race (sorry Greg, but look on the bright side, your joke evolved into a neat debate!). The third race do things that could never be explained by science, even quantum science.

Making matter appear out of thin air like Puck does clearly can't be explained by science. Furthermore, Oberon's ability to become a giant can only be explained by magic, because if a humanoid lifeform like him grew that big according to what you theorized, he'd be crushed under his own weight. Same goes for Anansi, spiders possess exoskeletons to support their bodies, but if a spider ever grew as big as Anansi he'd just collapse and die. His organs reduced to mush by his own exoskeleton, gross, but true. In short, only through magical means could a creature like Anansi possibly exist, Children of Oberon are just not limited by our rules and scientific facts.

Oh yeah, and I have yet to see a garg grow sick, though I'm sure they do. I doubt that they can contract human ailments though (we're talking about beings who can survive in freezing temperatures in nothing but loin cloths and tunics). I think that Dr. Sevarius explains to us how gargoyles obtain the energy they need to heal from injuries during stone sleep in the episode in which the Mutates are first introduced. He tells us that he believes that when gargoyles turn to stone, or whatever it is you wish to call it, they absorb solar energy from the sun, which somehow fuels their immense strength and rejuvenates their bodies. I'm also sure that stone sleep doesn't heal injuries involving the loss of body parts (such as the loss of Hudson's eye at the hands of the Archmage).
Dragomir
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 7:30:23 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Just for the record, I'm aware that this is a huge beyond-geeky thing, and that a sizable cadre of folks find "it's just magic" to be a perfectly satisfying explanation.

I'm not one of 'em. In fact, "magic" becoming explainable science paradoxically makes things even more "magical" for me.
Whitbourne
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 6:19:27 pm EST from 207.179.172.220

Leva> I'm too much a little science nerd to have magic be good enough. I think I used to drive my parents nuts when they read me bedtime stories. I think I once asked my mom if the giant in Jack and the Beanstalk had a sick pituitary gland (I read medical books even as a kid!) and after that mom wouldn't read me Jack and the Beanstalk anymore.

But seriously, magic is just energy, right? Energy is energy is energy. For magic to have an effect on a biological tissue, like Demona's cells, then that magical energy has to be converted into some kind of useable form or some kind of biochemical action. You couldn't have new telomeres just appear from nothing in Demona's cells to keep her from aging; that'd violate the law of conservation of matter. Those extensions would have to come from some kind of drive to the enzymes that replicate her DNA, adding base pairs on to the telomeres in order to keep the coding DNA intact after what amounts to a potentially infinite number of mitotic divisions. So that "magic" would have so alter all sorts of biochemical pathways, make sure there were enough nitrogenous base pairs and replication enzymes and all that jazz. Magic is a good starting explanation, but all that really does is tell you where the initial energy came from. That energy still has to do something.

And even without magic, gargoyle biology is all kinds of cool. I really can't buy that stone sleep cures everything; it really, to me, seems just wound healing. Now, from a tenth century gargoyle perspective, where life was probably nasty, brutish and short, there would likely be more deaths due to injuries that couldn't be stabilized prior to daybreak, but I wonder, now; if there were a stable, twenty-first century population of gargoyles where "battle-deaths" weren't as common, I don't think that stone sleep would necessarily protect agaist chronic disease. Stone sleep can't replace cells with granite; I think the consensus is that the "stone" is a biological material, but again, that stone, and the biochemical signal to cause stone sleep, has to come from somewhere. And those cells have to be able to respond to the "sunset signal" that restores them to "living creatures" again, not to mention provide a medium to keep those cells alive with oxygen and nutrients and fluid and solutes.

So stone sleep can't fix everything, because some things have to still be going on while a gargoyle is in stone sleep. So some cells might sustain chronic damage that stone sleep can't fix, and from that, I think that gargoyles could get chronic diseases, or illnesses similar to us.

Now, granted, Lexington having bloody urine and shortness of breath for a week, having an anti-glomerular basement membrane antibody titre done and being diagnosed with a gargoyle variant of Wegener's granulomatosis wouldn't be compelling drama (except for those of us who love House), but still, I think that if you had a large enough population of gargoyles, who weren't getting into fights and battles all of the time, you'd start to see things like gargoyle analogues to congestive heart failure or chronic renal failure or diabetes mellitus going on.

Yes, it's geeky, but there you go.

Greg> Hmm. Oberon's children biology. That'd be tough, but I don't think even they could violate some of the fundamental laws of physics. They can't just make energy, they can't juct make matter, they'd simply be able to work with what's already there. Maybe they somehow have the ability to work within a quantum physics existence (as opposed to gargoyles and humans who are stuck with ol' Isaac Newton). I don't know how necessarily they'd do that, but if there is a biological basis to them, then I think it'd be like that.

I'm going to get shot. Goliath saying "they are creatures of pure magic" is a lot more dramatic than "they are creatures of pure quantum physics that Einstein could probably explain better than I could", but I think that's where the discussion would have to start. Organisms that can alter things at a quantum level. Teleportation? All we can ever say with certainty about a particle is that we know where it probably is, so maybe an organism cut simultaneously change the probable location of all its particles. Making it rain? I dunno, but I suppose if you altered the motion of the air molecules over a place, you could drop the temperature to a point below the dewpoint and make it rain. Growing to the size of the Eyrie? Expand the space between your own molecules, I guess, though that begs the question of how big a CoO could grow before the space between their molecules grew too large and tehy just disspated. (scattered to the wind?)

I think that's where CoO biology would start; quantum biophysics. Someone could make an awful lot of money off that.
Whitbourne
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 6:17:30 pm EST from 207.179.172.220

DRAGOMIR> My last post was a joke. Trust me.

Seriously, I don't think the Children of Oberon could ever be scientifically explained. Nor should they. They are creatures of pure magic.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I apologise. I'm .. sorry. I'm sorry we had to defend ourselves against an unwarranted attack. I'm sorry that your crew was stupid enough to fire on a station filled with a quarter million civilians, including your own people. And I'm sorry I waited as long as I did before I blew them all straight to Hell. .. As with everything else, it's the thought that counts." - Captain John Sheridan
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 6:15:18 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Greg is right there, the children of oberon don't seem to have any real standard or set appearance. Though most of them are humanoid in shape and many have pinted ears, some of them do more closely resemble animals like Anasi. They are supposed to be a race of shape shifters, so maybe Anansi's spider body was not his orginal form, and he just got too fat and lazy to change back. Maybe they need to exercise using their magic or else lose control over it due to falling out of practice, rendering them unable to leave a certain form. who knows, it may be impossible to figure out since they are beings born of pure magic, not natural creatures.

The only things they seem to all have in common are their extremely long lifespans (can they live forever as long as no one kills them?), vulnerability to iron (do they ever explain why iron hurts them?), and sense of superiority over humans and gargoyles (except Puck, who seems to prefer their company). An interesting challenge, but probably impossible to figure out. Are there more fay than gargoyles? or are they in even worse shape as a species? I think humans outnumber them at least.
Dragomir
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 4:24:41 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Interesting post Whit.

I got a challenge for you though ;)

I challenge you in your AMAZING BIOLOGY SKILLS to write an essay on the physiology of Lord Oberon. WHy can he teleport, and make it rain and swell up the size of the Eyrie Building? Inquiring minds want to know.

Screw Gargoyle Biology 101, I want Children of Oberon Biology 101!

Like, how can Anansi be a big spider and Puck be a little elf if they're all the same species ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 2:46:46 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

List of silly things that will never happen on gargoyles:
1) Demona catching Thailog and Delilah in bed together, laser cannon in hand
2) Xanatos meeting his voice actor in the street and crying, "Brother! I thought I lost you at sea!"
3) It turns out that Puck was imprisioned within Titiana's mirror after he answered this question in a way not to her liking, "Puck, do these tights make my butt look big?"
4) Goliath and Thailog dress up in cowboy outfits and have a showdown. "This city ain't big enough for the two of us," Goliath threatens Thailog in his best impression of Clint Eastwood.
5) Demona goes public, gets her own talk show, and is declared the world's sexiest woman. "Don't hate me cause I'm beautiful," Demona cues as she strikes a hot pose for the cameras.
6) Goliath recieving a bill from Xanatos for all the robots and equipment he has destroyed over the years. "How many zeros was that....?," Goliath gasps before fainting.
7) Owen is finally pushed over the edge after Xanatos gives him one last order even he won't obey, "Owen, massage my feet." "GRRRRRR! Owen smash!!!," the normally placid man roars as he transforms into the Hulk.
Dragomir
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 2:19:57 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Immortality: I tend to think that magic is a force that transcends and can alter the laws of science, but still sort of works within them. So whatever would need to be altered in order for it to make sense, magic does the "trick", so to speak.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 1:46:28 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

Whitbourne, I have to admit I've never thought of Demona's and MacBeth's immortality from that standpoint. They probably do have some unusual genetics,but then again, the spell of immortality placed upon them may not apply to any tissue or blood samples they loose. Remember Delilah? She possesses Demona's DNA, but not her immortality, which indicates that the spell can't be inherited or passed on (so Xanatos couldn't use her blood to become immortal via a blood transfer). That also means that if she ever had any new children, they probably would not inherit her curse/gift as well, assuming Puck's gift to her doesn't render her incapable of bearing offspring (though I doubt that Puck would be cruel enough to take his trick on her that far).

Also, Demona and MacBeth cannot die, grow old, or become ill because of her immortality, so I doubt they could never develop cancer. Remember how quickly they recover from injury during battle? Demona alone has been run through by the son of Duncan's sword, shot to death, and dropped into a raging fire. This tells me that they can recover from just about anything, though we have yet to see either of them beheaded, vaporized, or dismembered. The Weird Sisters wanted them to live long enough to aid them in their plans to retake Avalon, so its safe to assume they rendered their unknowing pawns incapable of being crippled or taking ill. I'de like to see if their immortality enables them to regrow lost limbs or what not, not just close normally fatal stab or shot wounds (though Demona's recovery from being incinerated in the fire proves she can't be scarred or permanently injured).
Dragomir
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 12:33:32 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Owen having a vicious streak...I first read that as having a vicious steak and considering that he and Broadway are the two main culinary experts living in the castle I bet he does.

As for Owen suggesting to smash the gargoyles to Xanatos...I think he just wanted to see what Xanatos's reaction would be. He was probably pleased that Xanatos wanted to keep them alive since that was the complicated man he left Reynard for

Wait, that came out wrong. I meant he left Reynard to work for.
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"People are like stars. There are bright ones, and then there are those who are dim."~ Hot Ice Hilda
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 12:24:01 pm EST from 70.185.6.104

Does Owen have a vicious streak? No. Does Puck? Definitely. He would never abandon the mask/portrayal of Owen, just as the Puck would be unlikely to forgive any true slight against him, without having his fun, as he did by turning Demona human. That's my 2copper on it.

As far as Medicine talk, Whit? Wow. More, more more! Ya used words I actually don't know!!
Jade Griffin
Foooooooodd!!
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 12:00:53 pm EST from 71.83.112.202

Just to say, really looking forward to your new video Siren! Oh, and thanks for the link Grand!
Nikki
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 11:21:01 am EST from 62.252.32.16

Leva: I wouldn't exactly call it a vicious streak. He said himself that he enjoys serving humans. He just has a very sick sense of humor (look at "Future Tense," and the way he more or less gives Demona what she asked for at the end of "The Mirror"). But I wouldn't call it vicious.

Dragomir: In order for Demona to be redeemed in Angela's lifetime, they would really need to establish some sort of bond. But I think there's something that Demona loves more than her daughter, and that's her desire for revenge against humanity. As long as that's the case, Angela's not going to live to see Demona find the error of her ways.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"If every girl I ever dumped put out a hit on me, I'd have to go to Rome and steal the Pope-mobile again!"
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 9:29:52 am EST from 69.174.3.196

re: owen's vicious streak

Given what he is -- call him fey, a trickster, child of oberon, seelie, faery, whatever -- in mythology, he would have a vicious streak. Magic people in mythology are generally not very nice, though they may conceal it with a smile.

Leva
Leva - [leva@firefox.org]
Leva
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 9:12:53 am EST from 162.42.87.160

Whit> I always thought "magic" is a sufficient explanation. Besides, there's no way science could explain them coming back from the dead.
Leva - [leva@firefox.org]
Leva
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 9:07:19 am EST from 162.42.87.160

I'm reposting this from another board, but I'm interested in what some of the more scientifically minded here think of the immortality spell cast on Demona and Macbeth. How the heck would the immortality spell work? What would be the biochemical result of a magic spell to cause immortality?

Demona's telomeres might actually have a way to be extended, so that her DNA wouldn't degrade with repeated cell division, and she would have to have a pretty kick-ass scavenger system to eliminate free radicals that would cause damage to her cell membranes and such. Not to mention the fact that by all rights, she and Macbeth are both likely to get cancer, just because a thousand years is a long time for cells to continue to divide and grow without some kind of genetic mistake setting in and a cell activating an oncogenic pathway.

Demona and Macbeth both ought to get blood and tissues drawn to study this stuff. They need a real doctor other than that hack Sevarius. They need House, to be honest. What a sweet medical puzzle those two would be!

Maybe I'm biased, but I think Gargoyles needs more medicine-talk. :-)
Whitbourne
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 7:31:20 am EST from 69.195.234.161

I always wondered, was I the only one who ever questioned if Owen had a vicious streak?

I'm not saying he is the type to go around kicking puppies or anything of that ilk, but if you noticed, he was the one always suggesting to Xanatos to just smash the gargoyles, without giving them a fighting a chance. Now that may be sensibility over viciousness, but if you noticed when he makes remarks like that he usually smiled and Owen's smile was much more scary than Xanatos.

I am also not saying Owen is some kind of maschosist who takes pleasure from causing others pain, but when he did cause "discomfort to others" you could tell he enjoyed himself. It could be said if he had to do it, he might as well enjoy it.

Now of course this is all speculation, taken from certain scenes, and can be easily dismissed, but I do see him as having sort of a mean streak in him, and a mean streak would make sense, since in his Puck form he is a trickster and a trickster needs a mean streak so that they can victimize people, and it can be argued part of it would transfer into Owen.
#
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 4:38:51 am EST from 66.71.80.73

I see what you are saying Obed, and I respect your opinon. I just think Angie is the one and only person on earth Demona would never wish to harm, at least not Phsyically. Judging from the events of Hunter's Moon and her actions against Thailog, Demona truly cares for Angela more than she does for her lust for revenge. You do make a point about her betraying everyone she's loved so far, but I think Angela may be the one and only exception. We'll just have to wait and see until the comic premires at long last, I'll be on the edge of my seat until then, that I promise you.

Hi Jurgan, I think thats your name but have short memory, thanks for warning me about the extra messages Mr. Weisman has to work on. I'll try to get my answers in the FAQ's and if that doesn't work I'll go to you guys here. Its nice to know I can ask the more experienced guys here when I'm stumped.

Greg, I just realized something. What are Coldsteel's motives now that he has a body of his own? Back when he was simply the spirit of Iago trapped inside Coldstone, his only goal was to take permanent control of the cyborg body they shared and make Desdemona his own. He failed there, but now that he has been given a new body by Xanatos, what will he do now? Seek revenge against the Manhattan Clan? Capture Coldfire and kill Coldstone? I'm truly looking forward to finding out Weisman's plans for him in the comics.

Xanatos is obviously no one's fool, but why would he give Coldsteel such an advanced robot body? I understand that Puck's spell wouldn't have worked if Iago had been tempted with a crappy out of date robot body, they had to make him want it. But still, I would have expected Xanatos to have activated a self-destruct mechanism or flipped an off switch as soon as Iago was transfered into his new body, not let him go to continue his evil deeds elsewhere. Plus, he really didn't need to give Coldsteel such advanced regenerative abilities, just makes it harder to beat him if and when he returns. I'm beyond curious to discover what Xanatos has planned for this bionic gargoyle (will he seize control of it by remote once the opportunity arises?)

goodnight everyone, its been a great day for me, and hope it was the same for you
Dragomir
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 3:48:21 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Dragomir: You make a compelling argument for Demona's redemption. It certainly seems logical to think that Angela might be the key to helping Demona find some kind of redemption...but I feel like it's unlikely to happen because...well Demona is just too psychologically warped, and like it's been stated before, "she's her own worst enemy." That means that only she will be able to make herself "wake up" and see reality. And I think if that were to happen, it would take very DRASTIC circumstances. Maybe Angela and everyone would have to die in some dramatic meaningful way or something.

Besides, even if it seems like Angela might be making some kind of progress with her mother...i'm pretty sure SOMETHING would happen that would make Demona recoil in an instant. She simply can't really trust anyone, and you'd be pretty foolish to trust her. It's a delicate and precarious balance with Demona, and we already know that she isn't beyond destroying or sacrificing even the ones she loves, if for their own benefit (in her mind) or more likely, for her own motives.

Maybe she will never even find redemption. If it weren't for the fact that she were Immortal, she would have most likely destroyed herself long ago. Not everyone's life has a silver lining at the end.

My opinion is that I pretty much accept whatever the creator's give me, especially when it's from such a well-written, thought out property.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 1:53:52 am EST from 71.57.178.10

You make a great point Greg, I've always thought of Demona as the series greatest antagonist as well, which is one reason why I felt like pulling my hair out after forcing myself to watch every episode of TGC only to discover that she only made ONE appearance. I mean seriously, while I liked seeing Demona and Angela interact, I thought that episode was totally unrealistic. Demona will at times manipulate humans to do her bidding or even ally herself with them if it suits her needs (like she did with Xanatos, but of course she had always planned to get rid of him later).

However, there is no way in hell that she would ever team up with the Quarrymen just to win over the clan. The Quarrymen represent everything she believes humanity to be at heart, evil, bigoted, and ignorant. Plus, their leader is a direct descendant of her most hated human enemy, The Hunter. I think its safe to say that whoever was in charge of that episode's story, got Demona pegged wrong. Which is why I'm so excited to see Greg Weisman retake control of his creation in the comics, can't wait!

I agree with you that Thailog is the number one canidate for the next big bad. He's got Goliath's strength, xanatos's wits and lust for wealth and power, and Dr. Sevarius's will to survive. He even had our bad girl Demona fooled for a while (which resulted in him getting his cloned ass kicked, but hey, its Demona, its an unspoken rule to never piss her off unless you WANT to get creamed, lol). I don't mean that I want Demona to turn goody goody right away, quite the opposite, I'de like to see her change slowly over time as Angela helps her to accept what she has done and take the first step to redemption. Maybe Angie even plays the big heroine and convinces Demona at the last second to halt her latest doomsday plan. Once that has happened, Thailog can step forth from the shadows to take his place as the lead antagonist (Heaven help us all...)
Dragomir
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 1:23:31 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Yeah, Demona's sort of like Magneto to the X-Men or Dr. Doom to the Fantastic Four- the villain who's as important to their team as any of the heroes.

Dragomir: Impressive, getting welcomed by the man himself (even if he did misspell your name- nobody's perfect). I felt the need to respond to something you said, though. It's obviously moot for the moment, but supposing that Ask Greg were to open up again. It's nice that you're being considerate of our feelings, but if you had a question someone here knew the answer to, we'd all MUCH rather you ask us than submit it to Ask Greg. The thing is, Greg already has about a year and a half's worth of questions he hasn't answered, and the more time he spends answering questions that have already been answered, the longer it'll be until he gets to read some brand new questions. There are already far too many questions in his lineup that say something like "Why was Gargoyles canceled (only with worse spelling)?" That, of course, has been answered many, many times. So, if Ask Greg opens up again and you have a question, you should first search the archives and ask the comment room if any of us know the answer. If not, then it's worth submitting to Greg, but we'd all be glad to take the time to answer a question if it means Greg has fewer redundant questions to deal with.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"Anyone can read the news to you. I promise to feel the news at you." -Stephen Colbert
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 1:17:54 am EST from 68.58.253.131

DRAGOMIR> I get what you're saying, yes, it would be nice for Demona and Angela. But I don't know if it would be the best story. She's the best antagonist the series has, and I'd like for her to stay that way. If anything, it will make her relationship with Angela more dramatic and interesting. She loves her daughter, but also uses Angela and her safety to justify destroying humanity.

It's kind of why, in my opinion anyway, I'd rather watch the Bundy's than the Brady's. Lack of conflict doesn't really make for a good story. Conflict is what drives a story.

Let's tally the rogue's gallery.

Xanatos - While, I have no doubt he's still a scheming bastard, and would probably still manipulate the clan, he is not going to really be there enemy anymore. He's their uneasy ally. He's grateful to them, sure, but I'm sure for a long while, Goliath will think he made a deal with the Devil.

Thailog - Greg always had him in mind to be the next big bad. He's out to prove himself to be the superior to Xanatos and Goliath. And he wants money and power too. We'll have to wait and see. Thailog rocks.

John Castaway - He has potential under Greg's pen. He has a lot in common with Demona. In fact , he and the Quarrymen prove Demona's point. A lot of interesting pathos here, what with being the fugitive Jon Canmore. I can't wait for him and Jason to meet again.

Coyote and the Ultra Pack - A little too soon to tell. We know Coyote changes, but I don't see him becoming the main antagonist.

Coldsteel - He's a bastard, but it's a much smaller conflict. Nothing on the scale of what Demona wants to do.

Queen Mab - We know she'll be a new villain, but not much else, except that she's insane and Oberon overthrew and imprisoned her. Much potential, but lacks the history with the Manhattan Clan. We'll see what Greg does.

Macbeth - When last we saw him, he was defending them on TV. I doubt he'll be their buddy. But I also doubt he'll be their enemy. I could be wrong.

So, thematically, Demona has to remain the overall antagonist. The rest here are great, or have the potential to be. But she has more history with Goliath and the rest than anyone else. Their conflict is personal. She and Goliath and a yin and yang.

I just think losing her as a villain means losing an important element in the series.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 12:53:18 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Just wanted to say, I was able to get the episodes I needed. :D So happy! The video is almost half way complete. I will post it when its done
Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 12:34:21 am EST from 65.33.112.205

Hi Kjay, Demona is a personal fave of mine as well, she's more complex than the average villain, who are usually motivated by greed or power. I hope that she redeems herself in the comics, I know she's meant to be a tragic character, but I've watched her develop as a character for a while now and think she's suffered enough. Its time for her wounds to heal. Doubt she'll ever be fond of humans, especially Maza, but I hope she'll attempt to make ammends with the clan for her daughter's sake, if not her own.

Matt< Thankyou man, its great to feel welcome around here, I am newbie, HEAR ME ROAR! lol. By the way, I love your use of quotes from the show, very funny. I tried quoting my favorite line made by Lex from The Pack episode, hope I got it right. I can't believe Greg Weisman actually welcomed me! Its a great change from before and I hope he'll begin taking questions soon so I won't have to pump you oldies for information anymore. You're cool man, your fave clan are the Mayan gargoyles right? or was that Greg? (:

Siren< I know how you feel Siren, censorship has gotten way out of hand here in the U.S. lately. Teen Titan? geeze, I watch that show and know for a fact those guys are overreacting, no one even bleeds on that show. People fear what they don't understand, as the gargoyles would say.
Dragomir
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 12:27:19 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Demona>She's one of the few villains in the cartoon world that I have respect for in a way I feel bad for her. Will she ever turn good? I think yes and no. I know what it's like to go through something bad. You'll never forget what happened and it'll take a long time before you can forgive. But there is another part of you that can't forgive and trust a person no matter what you do. This way displayed when demona betrayed mcbeth because she though he was going to betray her clan. If she would of took things in consideration and stayed a while longer to hear the whole story she would of known the truth. But Demona is still in denial because she was reponsble for clan getting killed. She has to overcome that first and then she'll start to heal. And when she does Demona is not going to be as accepting as Goliath when dealing with humans either. She'll still be a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. If another human betrays her, look out!
That's all I have to say. It's 1200AM and I'm beat after seeing Ultraviolet today. It's a mix of Underworld/kill bill/Matrix/Hero(because of all the colors they used I felt like I was watching a pack of skittles at times).
kjay - [tigonesskay@yahoo.com]
just wondering
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2006 12:09:40 am EST from 24.45.58.246

OMG! Greg Weisman welcomed ME! YES! Dragomir does a happy dance around the room, knocking over furniture, and looking quite silly...That is until Demona steps up, backslaps him, and says, "Stop acting like a fool and thank the man for acknowledging your existence. Blasted human..." Dragomir blushes and says, "Thankyou for the warm welcome Mr. Weisman, its an honor. I immediately fell in love with your show after renting it on video cassette when it first came out as direct to video movie. Thanks for bringing Demona into our lives." Demona rolls her eyes and says haughtily, "As if flattery would stop me from destroying your pitiful species human." I smile warmly and say, "Isn't she gorgeous?"
Dragomir
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 11:04:31 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

*Checks in to see what's going on* Wow, Dragomir got a comment from THE Greg Weisman. I wooonder whyyyy. :)

Brain Teaser: If you try to fail at something and you succeed, which one have you done?
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"It's violent and educational. But mostly violent. Yay violence!" - Timmy Turner
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 10:33:18 pm EST from 69.234.8.165

HARVESTER - Yes, I agree with you on Castaway. (Interesting that you'd include "robbing the Bank of Canada" in your Goliath Chronicles-based parody of him; I've often thought that the Quarrymen's anti-gargoyle tactics in the Goliath Chronicles would have made better sense if their real motivation was that they were regular criminals trying to get rid of the gargoyles so that they couldn't interfere with their crimes rather than out of xenophobia.)

I certainly think that all of those over-the-top attacks were nothing short of insanity, especially since the Quarrymen don't need that sort of negative publicity; they'd need to keep their pursuit of the gargoyles relatively low key on account of the potential charges of vigilantism. (As I said before, there must be a lot of people out there who dislike gargoyles but who also disapprove of the Quarrymen's running around with electric hammers and see it as trespassing on the Gargoyle Task Force's function. The kind of people who, if they lived in Gotham City, would disapprove of Batman as a vigilante - and he's got a lot more self-restraint than the Goliath Chronicles version of Castaway!)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 9:21:29 pm EST from 4.244.212.57

Renee: Sadly, I just started a new job, and won't be eligible to start using vacation leave or floating holidays until the end of August. I'll make one eventually, though. It would be nice to finally see some of you face-to-face.

Greg B: Speaking of pairing Demona with the wrong characters, I came across a fic once in the fansite. Didn't read it, but the description said that it was X-Rated and starred Demona and Robyn Canmore. Speaks for itself, I think (which was the main reason I didn't read it).

The main thing I'd like to see from this comic is where Greg planned to take Jon Castaway. He had one of the major qualities that made Demona such a great villain, but The Goliath Chronicles turned him into Snidely Whiplash.

"Watch me destroy this train to prove that gargoyles are evil! Then I shall rob the First Bank of Canada!" *strokes moustache evilly and leers at the camera.*

One of the more heinous of TGC's many crimes. But soon to become moot.

And as far as the Demona apologists are concerned, everyone's entitled to their opinion. But ultimately, I think a Demona who's at war with humanity is more interesting than a Demona who gives peace a chance (boy, is that a sad testament to the human condition!). Unless I've completely misunderstood what an apologist is.

And me, I try to ignore the noobs. I just use the Avatar because I love the character (and she looks pretty hot in that picture).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Kids come running for the great taste of Sampo!"
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 8:18:25 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

Lots to do an little time... just a drive-by countdown from me today.

112 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Once word leaks out that a pirate has gone soft, people begin to disobey you, and then it's nothing but work, work, work, all the time." - Man in Black, "The Princess Bride"
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 7:47:31 pm EST from 70.229.212.168

Renee> *raises hand*

And I'll be bringing at least 1 other with me.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 5:56:50 pm EST from 209.239.132.190

An article in my local paper made me think of Gargoyles. It talked about the violence in children's shows. They panned Teen Titans pretty bad, and I thought that was unfair. There were many episodes with great lessons, just like Gargoyles had. Though Gargoyles did it more often. I'm sure if Gargoyles was still on the air, it would be panned too, regardless of any good it did.

Click my name for the article or copy and paste this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060303/ap_en_tv/tv_violent_kids;_ylt=AhTnNN97ze385..gIXd5WphpMhkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--
Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 5:56:15 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

Dragomir> Lucky you. A personal welcome to the fandom by Greg Weisman. Maybe I can pass of my behavior as a hazing ritual, yeah, thats it... lol. Seriously though, now that I know you are who you say you are (or rather, you are not who you say you are not), I'll try to be nicer. Hopefully the next time an annoying troll comes into the room, you'll understand why so many of us are a little defensive.

I think it's great that for the last couple months we've been lucky to have a lot of great new people come in and stay here. Gives me hope. So, thanks again newbies! You know who you are.

"I'll like to see Nashville, too, especially since we have never seen a hatchling before."

-Yeah, the closest we saw was Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca during the Magus' flashback. I asked Greg how old the kids were then, but he didn't know 'cause it wasn't in his timeline. I figure that since they could stand and walk and Gabriel at least was starting to learn to glide that they had to be at least a couple years old. Who knows though, we don't have a clear idea of when gargs learn to talk, walk, glide, stop nursing, etc.

Nashville will be around 20 years old (human equivalent 10) when he arrives in New York, so he'll be a kid, but i'm not sure I would consider him a hatchling. He and Bronx will be the youngest Clan members though, and Nash will certainly be the youngest garg we've seen with a speaking part (I'm assuming he can talk by age 10).

How many of you suspect there will be some drama surrounding Tachi's hatching in 1998?! lol. I can't wait!
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 5:52:38 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Everyone good now? Okay? Remember to breathe and think before you type. Then, for good measure, breathe again and read over what you wrote. All right. We're good now.

Greg B: "Posting and You" = very funny. Laughed a lot.

Matt: Agreeing with you on the thing I most look forward to in the new comic is new stories, especially canon ones. Knowing a few things from Ask Greg and the comment room and other sites are great, but I like getting the little and big revelations over the course of the telling. So long as the art flows with the writing, I'm fine.

One addendum: talking with a friend of mine (okay, beating the rules of the Garg universe into his head and his idea of a fanfic), a character I had forgotten about was brought up. I'd like to see more of Robbins in the future. Just because it's Robbins.
Asatira
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 5:14:58 pm EST from 66.168.244.117

Well, while we're on the subject of what we're looking forward to seeing. Greg talked about Coyote being another Xanatos creation, like Thailog, that would come back and bite him in the ass.

I always liked the character of Ultron. And Coyote is a lot cooler. So, I look forward to seeing how that robot evolves, culminating in the Coyote X of 2198.

And I don't think it needs to be said that I can't wait to see Demona again. It's been ten years and I miss her.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 4:58:20 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Matt> Definitely! I think the whole fandom burns on this.

Yeah, I'll like to see Nashville, too, especially since we have never seen a hatchling before. I especially like to compare the characters of Brooklyn's family to how the fans recreated them in the fics and pics.

Finally there will be new material for us as maybe some more fans getting captured by the comic as we did by the show. I just hope my comic-shop manages to get the comic here in germany.
Hardwing - [hardwing@web.de]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 4:53:13 pm EST from 85.182.12.96

Renee> It's in Valencia county. Click my name to see the website. All the info you need is there.

I will of course be there. I'm kinda doing the staff thing again... cause I'm a masochistic fool ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 4:42:24 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Wow. It's taken me a very long time to get through all of this, but I did. Certainly glad I missed all of it though.

*waves merrily* So, can anyone tell me exactly where outside of LA the Gathering is? I can't seem to find it on my atlas. And of course, who's going?
Renee
If all the world's a stage, where's my script?
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 4:31:21 pm EST from 63.200.119.60

Dragonmir - Welcome to the fandom!
Greg Weisman
Greg Weisman
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 4:15:53 pm EST from 72.25.64.98

Alex Garg> Eeps. You're right. I was not thinking about anything beyond feedback. My bad. It won't happen again.

*embarassed*
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 3:59:58 pm EST from 209.239.132.128

Poignant Phrases of the Day:

*Myself to Dragomir*
Matt: "So the battle is truely over... for both of us..."
*To everyone*
Matt: "Alls well that ends well then."
*Directs this towards AlexGarg*
Matt: "One thing still puzzles me though... why did you aid us?"
AlexGarg: "To return a favor rendered..."
*AlexGarg walks towards camera giving us a great shot of his belly-button*

hehee.

Best thing about the comic is the NEW canon stories. More specifically for me, though, is more development of the Broadway-Angela and Demona-Angela relationships. Also, I can't wait to see Brook do his Timedance and return with the family. After all these years of hearing about it, it'll be great to actually SEE Fu-Dog, Katana, and Nashville. It will be so neat to have a child gargoyle as part of the cast, and it'll be cool to know there is an egg in the Manhattan Clan's rookery in 1997 (hatching in '98).
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 3:51:27 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

:::Peers in the room::

I think I'll quote Siryn "Meef"

::Noices some Unlikely paring lists:::

Matt and Demona... Unlikely, but it was fun to write.

I also wrote an Elisa/Castaway paring for a Holiday challenge once.

Castway gets a lot of play in my fics.

:::Leaps back into the mist:::
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"People are like stars. There are bright ones, and then there are those who are dim."~ Hot Ice Hilda
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 3:49:50 pm EST from 70.185.6.104

KC>> Though many who come through here are fanfiction authors, this is not a forum for FFs, much less FF MiSTings.
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 3:49:24 pm EST from 216.145.68.246

sorry...
Silverwolfess
SW
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 3:48:46 pm EST from 70.107.27.231

Tribun>Relax, man. It's just a MiSTing, written purely for fun and is not meant to be taken serious. It's not a poke at you or anything. I only posted the excerpt because I wanted to make sure I was on the right path, humor-wise, with this.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 3:46:27 pm EST from 209.239.132.128

Silverwolfess> This isn't the chatroom.

KingCobra> That was assinine of you to post that in here.
Leo
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 3:46:05 pm EST from 68.107.154.71

oh $hit!
*sees mistake in last comment*
*fixes*
Silverwolfess
SW
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 3:43:41 pm EST from 70.107.27.231

Dragomir?
Yeah here?
:3
Silverwolfess
SW
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 3:39:57 pm EST from 70.107.27.231

Hey, I already admitted that my notes sound somewhat self-centered, I just can't re-upload the affected stories to eliminate the notes in them. However I did remove all the stuff in the story descriptions and the author page. I was simply not aware that I sounded somewhat full of myself.

If you still want to make fun of me in this childish way, I won't stop you. Do you want to actually make me angry? You won't manage to do so this way, since I only find that somewhat amusing.
Tribun - [joachim_henkel@gmx.net]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 3:38:21 pm EST from 87.122.21.220

Little exerpt from my Tribun fic MiSTing. What do you guys think?

***

-I always found "The Journey" too disconnected.

TOM: (Phone Operator) I'm sorry, but the Journey you have dialed has been disconnected or is no longer in service. If you feel you have reached this Journey in error, please hang up and dial again…
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 3:25:45 pm EST from 209.239.132.128

DRAGOMIR> The comic book takes place in 1996. Right after "Hunter's Moon"
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 2:53:19 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

I can't wait to see how all our favorite characters have grown over the years since the events of Hunter's Moon in the comics, assuming it takes place in 2006.
Dragomir
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 2:50:03 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

I'm actually really looking forward to the comic. Indeed, the first canon Gargoyles story in many years - what's NOT to look forward to?

I'm not so much interested in the art as much as I am a damn good story; the art (to me) is just a bonus. I just want to read the stories Greg has to tell about the characters; their adventures, their losses, their gains... this is going to be such a treat. :D
The Sadistic Cow - [kharrigan@imseeingatherapist.com]
Professional baby-devourer for hire. Inquire within.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 2:30:04 pm EST from 69.157.0.233

Matt>> I have nothing against you, really. I don't.

To be fair, however, you weren't posting much in the way of hard evidence to support your claims - how many people have used that Demona av over the years? Frankly, I think it needs to be retired in no short order.

Look, everybody needs to chill out - myself included, I'll admit. If you have a gripe with someone, go somewhere else with it; LiveJournal, MySpace, instant messengers or a chat room, or show some class and confront the person one-on-one in one of those forums (me, ICYI, AIM - AlexChecnkov). But leave personal issues out of here where everybody uninvolved will have to look at it.

So, what about this comic coming out in June, eh? First canon stories in 10 years, cover art's already looking good (thanks for the link, Jen) - I'm pumped.
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 2:23:20 pm EST from 216.145.68.246

Thankyou from the bottom of my internet geek heart Mr. Alex Garg. If it weren't for you and your efforts, which you did out of the goodness of your heart without me evening asking, I wouldn't be able to show myself around here anymore. I hope you and I can get to know eachother here, and become friends. Matt, thankyou for the apology, and I hope that we can disagree with eachother properly as well. You make great arguments. Thanks Sadistic, I'll try to get her name right from now on.

List of favorite baddies:
1) Demona (no surprise there)
2) Thailog
3) Iago, AKA Coldsteel
4) Xanatos
5) Brentwood (Lex's evil twin, mahahaha!)
Dragomir
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 2:20:07 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Dragomir: "Athylera, hope i typed that right"

I think you mean Kythera. ;)
The Sadistic Cow
Professional baby-devourer for hire. Inquire within.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 2:12:17 pm EST from 69.157.0.233

Okay, I'm gonna follow Greg's suggestion and do a Tribun fic MiSTing.

Anybody wanna help me?
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 2:09:44 pm EST from 209.239.132.128

MATT> Yeah, the Demona Apologists are annoying. But the group that really annoys me are the ones who want to turn Elisa into a gargoyle permanently. Or Goliath into a human during the day like Demona. It would completely destroy the entire Goliath/Elisa dynamic.

And don't get me started on the Demona/Elisa pairing ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 2:00:53 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

jalapena, I never meant to have things go this far. What started as me defending myself became a bloody flame war (in that regard I suppose I'm no better than the person many of you accused me of being). I apologize again to everyone I have insulted, including you Jen, in the hopes of ending any further hostilities. Justin, you are absolutely right, getting mad isn't helping me at all, so I'll try my hardest to ignore any further accusations or insults directed at me (but I still say I didn't deserve any of this in the first place). Christine, you'll hear no griping from me from now on, garg's honor.

Sadistic Cow, Thankyou for your advice, I'll try to not take negative comments posted here so seriously from now on. Athylera, hope i typed that right, I know you don't like me, and I hope that changes, but I thankyou for explaining how I can't be demonic lover (i'll stop being a pest). Greg and Matt, I think the reason why I've been having a hard time getting along with you guys is because I'm not as hardcore about Weisman's unused storylines, i'm more into exploring the possibilities. I'll do my research though, and try to take your constructive criticisms positively. (:

To Demonic Lover, whoever you are, don't come on this site, they are ready for you and won't tolerate your crap (nor mine). I'll personally flame you into oblivion if you ever return for real. I won't apologize, insult, or make excuses any more guys, and I hope those of you who are not yet convinced of who I am will soon see the light and apologize to me. As my favorite olive green garg would say, "We have kindred spirits out there, but we have to find them and give them a chance! Otherwise...We'll always be alone..."
Dragomir
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 2:00:33 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

hahaa, well done. i figured you'd be able to track me to a campus computer and put it together. didn't think about the "theres" thing. good job. next time i'll make it more difficult.

AlexGarg> i like you. i don't want to be your enemy. so kudos on figuring me out, but please don't be all mean to me. i'm just playin' around afterall. if you had posted all that info in here a few days ago i would've been less confused on how everyone was so sure.

Dragomir> sorry to confuse you with DL. i was never informed that you and DL had IPs in different states. if i had known that i would've dropped it. sorry i've been an ass, but the number one annopying thing about this fandom for me is newbie Demona apologists, followed closely by those who feel Brook and Angela should've gotten together. so, i guess we'll just have to disagree.
of course i have no problem with someone in the Room disagreeing with me, i just ask for everyone, including myself, to back up their argunments.
sorry again, hope you join the ranks of great newbies we've had lately and stick around.

sorry everybody if i was annoying, not my intent of course.
matt
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:57:42 pm EST from 150.201.59.116

Greg B.> "KC> MiST a Tribun fic ;)"

Hmmm...

*goes browsing in another window*
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:48:22 pm EST from 209.239.132.128

I knew it was Matt. That IP was based in MO, and I knew it wasn't Todd
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:47:26 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Challenger>> You are Matt. Must I prove it? Gladly.

You, Challenger, posted with the IP address 150.201.53.25, which traces back to Southeast Missouri State, which is located in Cape Girardeau, Missouri, which is where Matt identifies himself from.

Matt posts with the most common IP address 24.182.146.1, which gets lost in the St. Louis, Missouri, area; which doesn't matter, because Matt already tells us he is from Cape Girardeau, Missouri, which is where SEMO is located, which is where you posted from.

But I didn't actually need to do an IP trace to prove it.

See, people usually have identifying phrases or words when they talk. Yours, Challenger, was "theres". There is only one other person in this comment room this week who fails to put an apostrophe on the compound form of "there is" - Matt. Twice this week, actually.

Not only is it annoying, but it's a blatant identifier.

Further annoying is that Matt, until his last few posts, doesn't typically capitalize his "I"s. Neither do you.

I'm the one, in case you all missed it, who did the IP discovery between Demonic Lover and Dragomir. Allow me to post it:

[Person]:
[IP] - [ISP]; [Location]

Demonic Lover:
152.163.100.14 - AOL; Dulles, Va.
165.139.175.97 - Indiana Higher Education; Indianapolis, Ind.
205.188.117.68 - AOL; Sterling, Va.

Dragomir:
71.192.76.212 - Comcast; Boston, Mass.

Wolfbane:
66.194.217.222 - Wake County Public Schools; Raleigh, N.C.

Now, obviously AOL users' IPs get lost in the Dulles/Sterling area as that's the corporate headquarters. No shit. But we know that DL is from Indiana, and that he logged on from his school confirms that.

So I ask you, how does an AOL user from Indiana become a Comcast user in Boston [and, BTW, Dragomir's IP traced through the Denver area, HQ of Comcast] become a student in Raleigh, N.C.?

Returning to the lingustic evidence, Dragomir is far and away more coherent than DL ever was. In terms of style - not necessarily case - the two just don't match up.

The circumstantial evidence for declaring Dragomir to be Demonic Lover might be overwhelming, but that doesn't wash in court. The physical evidence does not support the claim.

Oldbies who can't let go - okay, I'll just call you out, Matt - step off your persecution complex high horses and give Dragomir a fair chance. If he annoys you or, worse, trolls, then do what you should do and just ignore it. The behavior will either correct itself - which Dragomir has been doing, and DL never did - or go away.
Alex Garg - [fiatnox@gmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:41:06 pm EST from 216.145.68.246

KC> MiST a Tribun fic ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:39:19 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Greg B.> Normally, I wouldn't MiST a good fic. Certainly not any of Amy K.'s classics, but she said something in one of her fics along the lines of "Please MiST me, somebody" (probably not in those exact words, but similar) and I remember being in a mood to do another MiSTing at the time. I contacted her to see if it'd be okay, and she gave me the go-ahead. In fact, I sent her what I had of it a few days later, and she had even thrown in some extra riffs.

Besides, I haven't seen any really crappy fics that deserve a beating lately. Unless you know of at least one or two that I'm missing.

SC> See above response.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:37:25 pm EST from 209.239.132.128

Okay... this hear is fucking sacred! It has been blessed by Jesus, Buddha, Muhammed, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, John Lennon and Joseph Stalin.

It is required viewing for all.... especially anyone who's new. Dragomir, I'm looking at you.

http://www.linuxbench.org/Posting.html
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:32:37 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

# - Yeah, because in this day and age fourteen-year-olds are totally college material and are recruited en masse to a higher education system. -.-; I think, based on that lovely little tidbit of information you so graciously gathered, it's obvious Dragomir is over fourteen. :P

Who am me - Oh now, really, that's just fanning the flames, my friend. Point taken - nobody can prove whether Dragomir is, or isn't, Demonic Lover. Personally, I highly doubt he is.

Dragomir - This is the internet, my dear. Take what's said with a grain of salt, and try not to overreact. They weren't attacking you; they were simply disagreeing with your opinion, which is perfectly okay. :)

KC - "Is anyone interested in helping me finish a MiSTing of a Amy K. Cyrway fic? I've been working on it for months and it's going nowhere."

Good God. Please don't. -.-;
The Sadistic Cow
Professional baby-devourer for hire. Inquire within.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:24:46 pm EST from 69.157.0.233

KC> You're MiSTing Cyrway?

Dude... you're supposed to MiST BAD fic. Not good fic. Bad fic would be the complete opposite of Cyrway fic.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:21:01 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Christine> Truer words were never spoken... or typed. :P

*tries to get this board off the Dragomir topic*

Is anyone interested in helping me finish a MiSTing of a Amy K. Cyrway fic? I've been working on it for months and it's going nowhere.

Also, I can't remember who the author is who wrote that "War Of The Roses" (AU fic with Broad, Brook and Angela as human, Broad calls a radio station and finds she's cheating on him with Brook) fic. *has been wanting to read it lately for some weird reason.*
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:14:37 pm EST from 209.239.132.128

count me in as one of those who isnt sure demonic lover and dragomir are the same person.
and i don't agree that dragomir or anyone else has proven he is or isnt demoic lover.
and the different ip addresses don't prove much.
so. this is a test.
ok computer nerds. who am i? tell me who i really am and more importantly prove it. i have posted this week so theres a clue for you.
tell me who i am AND PROVE it. i don't think you can, and i don't think dragomir can either.
challenge
who am me?
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 12:59:48 pm EST from 150.201.53.25

When there's no activity in here, people gripe ... when there's lots of activity in here, people gripe ... there's just no pleasing this fandom. I keep sayin', and it keeps on being true :D
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 12:35:46 pm EST from 71.112.172.65

Addendum:

Chameleongirl, you are teh awesome. But you know that. **Beams**
Kythera of Anevern
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 11:09:08 am EST from 24.126.11.109

Dragonmir also besides Comcast uses the Massachusetts Higher Education Computer Network, indicating he is at least a college student. I would agree that he is probably over 14.
#
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 10:44:36 am EST from 128.118.89.159

Not that I actually LIKE either of these people at this point, but... mistaken identity bugs the crap out of me.

Here's a snippit from Demonic Lover:

"I have been betrayed by people for ever. I thought i could trust other gargfans! (sniffel, heart shattering, starting to break, now breaking in half like in jen's picture of Demona for valantines day!!!!!!!!!!!)
You don't know what it is like to live in my shoes! I used to have sooo many friends untill I moved out to New Carlisle. Now I have... ... ... hardly any!!!!!! i try to be perfect! ( sobbing profusivly, praying to find the meaning of happiness to heal a broken heart and live again. Losing all memories of happiness.)
"

Thus far, Dragomir has not made a big deal about him "sobbing profusivly" and being militantly pro-gay (remember DL accusing THIS fandom of being anti-gay?). I will also add that I had a brief chat with Demonic Lover via MySpace, where it (I still refuse to believe DL was male) told me it was 14. According to MySpace, DL also has not logged in since it was last pwned on February 19th.

They may both need some step-by-step instructions in the use of paragraphs, backing up radical claims ("Redeem Demona NOW!") with sound reasoning, and gathering one's thoughts into a single post before mashing "Add Chat" repeatedly, but their typing styles ARE different enough to make me seriously doubt they're one and the same. Dragomir has yet to lament about a homophobic father, having a significant other, or tell us he's making a non-alcoholic "fizzing raspberry" as a "comfort drink." I refused to believe DL was 20-something from the getgo, but I will believe Dragomir is well over 14 (but not by much in terms of maturity).

They may both be reactionist and irritating Demona-apologists, but they are NOT the same person.
Kythera of Anevern
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 10:40:02 am EST from 24.126.11.109

Sorry that was me, I am using a library computer and again forgot the variable fields.
#
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 10:31:51 am EST from 128.118.89.159

I hate to do this, but Dragonmir and Demonic Lover are not the same person, unless DL changed Internet service providers. Dragonmir uses comcast, DL used AOL.
Anonymous
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 10:31:11 am EST from 128.118.89.159

sorry for typo plane = plain
Justin - [justin.lindley@gmail.com]
Justin M. Lindley
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 10:30:11 am EST from 71.98.108.19

Ok Dragomir,
Look I fully understand the rights of a person to stand up for one's self. But hey look, coming in here and tossing your words around like you own the place is just plane rude. Far more so than whats been said to you thus far, I have checked.

Ok, I was a regular here like 10 years ago, but does that give me the right now to start talking loads of crap? Even if I were so inclined the answer is no. You do not come into someone's territory and berate them.

We're all good , honest people here. Everyone, so just know that sometimes, remember what your parents told you if a sibling picked on you.... "If you ignore them they will stop." Don't retaliate. All it does is clog up the room.

I hope that helps...
Justin - [justin.lindley@gmail.com]
Justin M. Lindley
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 10:28:26 am EST from 71.98.108.19

Jen, I had forgotten about you up til now, I suggest you do the same in regards to me. Your paranoia over something so tedious is beyond me, I'm the one who should mad, not you. Chameleongirl, great work, I'm happy to hear that your attempts to spread the word have bared fruit! (:
Dragomir
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 9:58:35 am EST from 134.241.91.80

I decided to do an animation from the old cover art to the new version. Just to show how much more dynamic the new one is. Clicky the linky to see it.

Also, GOLIATH IS PURPLE. He always has been. Exact same color as Angela.

The Full Moon(tm)... It reminds me of the old Gargoyles Drinking game. "If you see the moon, take a drink... take two if it's full" :: notes that it was easy to get drunk REALLY fast in that game::

Dragomir - Don't look for an apology from me. I still don't believe you aren't Demonic Lover.. and even if you aren't them, you still are just as gorram annoying and can't seem to follow simple instructions. I don't like you. I'm sure you don't like me either. I'm over it. You should get over it too.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<---- click here to see]
"We are not talking about THIS terrorist" -- Weird Sisters, Gargoyles
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 9:30:42 am EST from 68.66.254.122

that's really cool chameleongirl! I'm still surprised how many fans still don't know about the comic...heck I'm still surprised how many fans don't even know about the DVD. More surprising still is how many people remember the show fondly when I show them the DVD, still blissfully unaware of the online fandom, the gathering...etc. But then again...it shouldn't be that surprising seeing as how I just found about all this stuff in recent months...so heh...but I guess that just means all this promotion must be working, it's pulling all the old fans out of the woodwork and I think that's just great.

On another note...more weird pairings...let's see uh...Margot and Odin, and because I want to see her yelling at him, Brendan and Banshee.

Geez, these weird pairing things are beginning to seriously disturb me....o.O
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 9:08:52 am EST from 71.57.178.10

I've done my part to promote the comic!

Last August I started a thread about the Gargoyles comic over at a comics forum I frequent. I only got one reply and kinda forgot I started it.
until this week, when several people posted demanding to know more!
So I pulled out the links to the cover artwork and the SLG news post and managed to make a few Gargoyles fans pretty happy.

It's not much, I know, but it's a start :D
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 8:19:24 am EST from 202.87.162.31

Matt, how is accusing me of being some I'm not not an attack? But whatever, you are right. This has gone too far and I don't wish to cause trouble. I don't appreciate threats and I have not insulted any regulars unless they said something unkind to me first. I don't understand why you think I'm like demonic lover because I don't deliberatley seek out people to abuse, I only defend myself if I think someone is treating me unkindly. I thankyou for your help Matt, and hope we can learn to get along in the future for the sake of everyone else here. I wish you a good day Matt

Change of topic: Unlikely couples= Hudson and the Weird Sisters, Matt and Demona, Angela and Ophelia, Guardian Tom and the Magus
Dragomir
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 8:15:44 am EST from 69.16.84.41

Dragomir> I don't think retaliation is neccesary since I was not attacking you.

I'm trying to help you. Whether you are Demonic Lover or not, you are on thin ice in here. Newbies who annoy us and insult the regulars don't tend to stick around long.

As for your possible double identity, listen, if you are NOT Demonic Lover, I apologize, but like I said I'm not convinced. The similarities are uncanny. Same attitudes, same avatar, same topics (Goliath-Demona, Garg costumes, fanfic). So, heres a compromise that everyone will like: Stop acting like Demonic Lover, whether you are him or not.

Sorry everybody for continuing this crap. I'm out of here now.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 7:27:12 am EST from 24.182.146.1

Okay Matt, there are so many things I can say to you right now in retaliation, but I won't because I do wish to fit in around here (despite how I was treated before). Matt, I give you my word that I am not this Demonic Lover guy, I'm no where near as bad as he was. He liked to make people cry, I don't. Please don't start up another witch hunt in this room just because you have a problem with how I state my beliefs. If it bothers you that much, I will try to explain myself better in the future. I don't care what sexual orientation lexington is, he's still one of the coolest gargoyles around and I agree with you that it shouldn't affect the rest of the story too greatly.

I apologized for double posting in an attempt to be polite to everyone here, not to be annoying. Please don't accuse me of being that other person again. I've been cleared by Alex Garg, to whom I am still quite grateful, and I don't appreciate your unwarranted suspicions. Please let it go so we can both get on with our lives. And it was never my intention to butcher anyone's characters.
Dragomir
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 6:45:39 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Dragomir> Calm down. You were doing so well there for a couple days. No one here is going to get upset with you if you express an opinion and can back it up with some good reasoning, but you can't. You simply make an opinion and then get upset when others disagree with you, even though you have no good examples to support your opinion. Here's a tip: Stop coming in here and JUST saying what you want to happen, and start explaining WHY you want that to happen and HOW that makes sense to you, 'cause it doesn't make sense to us.

I don't want to cause trouble with this, but honestly, IP addresses or not, I'm still not convinced Dragomir and Demonic Lover are not the same person. *shrugs*

"sorry for this double post, it won't happen again"
-And then you double post 3 or 4 more times in less than a day. Alrighty... Hey, do us a favor and try to keep the drama/conflict level down. Thanks.

That stupid Top Ten list> If one or all of those things had happened, I would've probably stopped watching the show because it would have become totally uninteresting, predictable, and, as others have said, a rape of character. I can't believe that list is on a Gargoyles FAN Website! Some fan.

Lex's gay thing> I'm gay and at one point in my life I "competed" with my male peers for the attentions of girls and even had a girlfriend for a couple years. I can totally relate to Lex's position in "Turf", and nothing he did in that episode or any other episode (including his reaction's to the she-goyles in The Mirror) make me think for a second that he is straight. LONG before (i'm talking 5 years or more) Greg told us Lex is, in fact, gay, I figured he was. Call it gaydar or intuition or whatever, but he struck my friends and I as gay as far back as 1995. Hell, I knew Lex was gay before I knew I was. It is certainly not Greg manipulating the character. As with many character elements in this series, this one just seems natural.

Its like with the Brooklyn-Angela thing. To put them together would be an injustice to the characters and, frankly, an insult to the series and its fans. If you just look at the characters, Broadway and Angela are such a natural couple. I think they are great together, and I have little doubt that Brook and Katana will be a great couple also.

Later everybody.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 6:26:16 am EST from 24.182.146.1

Cool
Greg Bishansky
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:37:13 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Greg B:

The old coloration of the cover's not bad. It's pretty basic, less "shiny" and touched up-looking than what I can make out of Steph's in that thumbnail. As much as I like the stuff she's got on her website--all of it, frickin beautiful--this looks a little more like what your standard talented comic book colorist might do. Very nice, but not as unique as what she seems to be doing with color in the pieces on her site.

Re: Goliath being grey...Yeah, I guess it's just my memory of how he looks that's causing the confusion in my head. Man, and I just watched my Season 2 DVDs in December and a bit with my little cousin a few weeks ago. You're right, he's definitely depicted as lavender in the cartoon.

I gave due credit to the nicely made moon in my previous post with, "fits with the series and it makes a striking bit of background imagery"...fine, it's a cliche, but as Kyt just mentioned in the Chat Room, it's Gargoyles and it works. I am won over to the charms of the moon.

Justin said:
I remember people asked.. "If Lexington is Gay, then why did he pursue Angela with the same aggression as Brooklyn and Broadway?" Greg said.. "It is my understanding that in some cases Homosexuals try to fit into the societal norm."

Hasn't Greg W. addressed this by saying that Lex simply isn't at a stage in his life yet where he's realized he's gay? And also that he was simply being "one of the guys" in the situation with Angela by competing for her affections simply because Broadway and Brooklyn were? And because she was someone new, a gargoyle and their age?

More importantly, I thought Greg had stated in Ask Greg that homosexuality wasn't an issue in Gargoyle culture, if they even even thought much about it at all. So Lex wouldn't be trying to conform to some norm...?
Kris - [Ontario, Canada]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:26:36 am EST from 69.17.169.178

KRIS> You like the old version??? O.o

Goliath is lavender. Not grey. He's never been grey. You might want to check your television.

And as for the full moon. It's lovely. Makes the cover look good.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:13:52 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Re: the two different colorations of Gargoyles #1's cover

Is Goliath intended to be gray, purple, a variation of both, or does it entirely depend on what sort of lighting he's under? 'Cause in the cartoon I think of him as "gray" more or less, even though there's definitely a tinge of purple that the animators intended. However, from what I remember of the Marvel comics and in much of the promo art before the debut of the series (or on Gargoyles T-shirts and puzzles), he's often strictly a shade of purple.

As much as I kinda prefer a gray-ish Goliath, the obvious purple maybe works better 'cause then he reminds me less of some interpretations of vampires.

Re: Kythera's thoughts on the possibility of seeing an obvious or even implied reference to Lexington's sexuality:

"Even though this is a comic and not a return of the series... it's STILL a Disney property, so I still wouldn't expect to see any indicators that would be obvious to anyone except the people who already know."

Then again, Disney actually TOLD Slave Labor Graphics to slap a "13+" age rating on Haunted Mansion and they still allowed it to be published, so that shows they're willing to have their properties adapted into slightly more mature fare. And in lots of Teen+ comics and animated shows, there are definitely gay characters/supporting characters and references to the existence of them.

The Ask Greg answer you linked to is from 2004, so maybe he's changed his mind since then (we can hope), now that he knows for sure that the franchise is continuing as a comic. I don't expect it to be made a big deal of, especially since that's what Greg seems to have implied, but I think it'll be made obvious enough to ALL readers eventually, not just the in-the-know internet fans, should the book continue for at least a couple years. Maybe earlier. Who knows, guess we have to wait and see.

I hope Gargoyles gets to be a 13+ book as well. It's not that I believe more near-adult content automatically makes a story better or more entertaining necessarily, but the freedom gives the writer considerably more room to work with when they approach certain areas of their characters' lives and actions.

Matt said:
"I think its hilarious that NATURALLY, there will be a FULL Moon on the cover of Gargoyles, Issue 1. How appropriate!"

Heh, I'm glad someone else noticed this and thought it was amusing. The perpetual full moon of Gargoyles' New York (and maybe elsewhere during the World Tour? Can't remember if the moon was shown all that much during that arc). While I got a chuckle out of it, I'm not sure whether I really like that it's there. On the one hand it fits with the series and it makes a striking bit of background imagery, but on the other hand it's such a cliche and maybe mis-represents the property as horror. At least, that's what I'd probably assume if I was a first-time viewer who had no idea about the TV series. Looks like a straight-up horror comic and coming from Slave Labor Graphics that's a reasonable assumption. Ah well, it is what it is and, despite the fact that covers are important to help sell to the impulse buyers and the on-the-fencers, at the end of the day it's just the cover. Much more concerned with/interested in the contents of the book.
Kris - [Ontario, Canada]
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 1:08:06 am EST from 69.17.169.178

Lex will have a "special friend".

You won't see him with a female.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 12:54:51 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Comic Topic:
Ok I would assume that the vast majority of the fandom has knowledge the Lexington is Gay. I am also well aware that Greg has said that he will not be showcasing any of this.

With that said, we know his mate will most likely not be male, as that would definitely tip the hand. Although dependant on climate changes, that may not be a safe assumption.

Now I remember people asked.. "If Lexington is Gay, then why did he pursue Angela with the same aggression as Brooklyn and Broadway?" Greg said.. "It is my understanding that in some cases Homosexuals try to fit into the societal norm."

I had an uncle like that, he did just that. He married and had a daughter with my Dad's sister. Now in most cases I find it sad, that a person feels like denying a part of who they are to fit in, but in this case I am sort of glad. My cousin is one of the best friends I ever had.

Also, since it will not be addressed, does this leave room open yet for more hatchlings in 2018?

All things to consider...
Justin - [justin.lindley@gmail.com]
Justin M. Lindley
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 12:52:05 am EST from 71.98.108.19

Freaking out? You're flattering yourself. Drop me an IM and I'll show you "freaked out." Try me. Please.

I was trying to divert the SPAM to the chat room. So much for that plan...
Kythera of Anevern
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 12:36:20 am EST from 24.126.11.109

Now who's freaking out? pot calling the kettle black indeed, lol. Thanks for the link Greg, I thought that the two names, Xanatos and Thanatos, were related. Have a good night
Dragomir
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 12:32:10 am EST from 71.192.76.212

... Christ.

**Just lurks in the chatroom**

http://www.s8.org/chat/gargs/chatframe.html
Kythera of Anevern
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 12:21:19 am EST from 24.126.11.109

Dear Kythera, don't remind me of what happend to me here at the beginning of the week. I only recieved two apologies for how those present that day treated me, and you can't imagine what its like to be essentially accused of being some cyber sicko who likes to make people cry. Thanks again to Alex Garg for proving who I really was. I'm tougher than you think Kythera, I will survive, "I always survive."
Dragomir
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 12:16:34 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Don't talk to me here #, just leave me alone. We're not friends, not even friendly chatters, you made that clear. Please leave me alone from now on and I'll leave you alone as well (everyone else here, don't ask, its a long story)
Dragomir
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 12:12:42 am EST from 71.192.76.212

This is so turning into the chatroom... and I'm guilty of helping it along. -_-;

Dragomir-- After the HOOPLA you pulled overreacting earlier this week... you look more than a little silly saying *I'm* overreacting when I post in defense of the dead horse that should be left to rest in peace. In all seriousness, I think you need to grow a thicker skin if you plan on sticking around here, if Greg B. calling your views "simplistic" is going to get your goat.
Kythera of Anevern
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 12:11:09 am EST from 24.126.11.109

Dragonmir>Greg never said you were simplistic, just your views.
#
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 12:07:47 am EST from 66.71.80.73

I checked Daniel Roach's top ten, some of them were okay, but think he got a little silly on the others.
Dragomir
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 12:07:42 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Okay Greg, but please don't call me simplistic. Most people do take offense to such comments. I'll read the link and see what you are talking about, sigh. Can't believe I mistyped Xanatos's name, sigh. Honest mistake though (pot calling the kettle black? how often does flaming occur in here?)
Dragomir
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2006 12:06:02 am EST from 71.192.76.212

I'm not arguing or fighting. Just discussing.

But, as far as Xanatos goes... please read this link.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/faq.php?s=faq7#3

It will answer your questions about him.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:55:54 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Wow, okay guys. Please try to keep this impersonal, i'm not interested in getting cyber lynched again. Xanatos may not be a saint Greg, but at least he is trying to make a amends to Goliath, out of gratitude to him for saving his son, did you forget that? Please don't call me simplistic just because i have differnt views from you. I don't wish to argue or fight here, not again.
Dragomir
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:52:40 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Thankyou christine, I will. I love your unique, decidely adult take on the series, I've never seen Demona more dark than in your stories (gives me goosebumps, she's so creepy!). I also like Jericho, messed up though he is, poor guy. I've been trying to come up with my own son of Demona and Goliath type character for a fanfic too. I've come up with a unique origin story for him, but got stuck on what he should look like (your Jericho is just too perfect to top). I also love Ventura and Godiva, two lovely, lethal ladies of the night...Hope Demona and Godiva hook up at some point in the new stories you mentioned. Sorry for double posting (I really got to stop that, sorry)
Dragomir
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:48:44 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Addendum:

Thanatos: "In Greek mytholoty, the personification of death." (see Wikipedia)

David Xanatos: Multibillionaire villain in "Gargoyles," voiced by Jonathan Frakes.

Dragomir-- Pot to kettle, you are black. I repeat, you are black. Over...
Kythera of Anevern
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:43:32 pm EST from 24.126.11.109

Who's Thanatos? Do you mean Xanatos?

Xanatos has NOT been redeemed. He only rescued the clan and let them stay in the castle because in the long run it would benefit him. As Greg Weisman has said, he is STILL a manipulative, scheming bastard. He has learned he needs to give in order to take. But he's not done taking. Far from it.

They may be living under the same roof, but I doubt he and Goliath are going to be buddies any time soon.

You havea pretty simplistic view of these characters, it seems.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:42:41 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

OMG yourself my friend, I'm entitled to my opinon and I think you are overreacting a little bit...sheesh.
Dragomir
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:40:36 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Dragomir > I check in every now and again, though am less active than I used to be. As for my fics, you've fallen a bit behind ... check out The Guardians, a spinoff series, for more of what's been going on. Demona's post-Llylth story also continues in "Ever After," "Baby Makes Three," and "Only the Good, Part One."

re: The Tempest > been there, done that ... omigod, ten years ago?!? That can't be right. Can that be right? Ooh, I'm old. Anyway, clickie to see my fanfic take on that topic; it was a lot of fun.

TEN YEARS? :: whimper ::
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:40:13 pm EST from 71.112.172.65

Yeah I suppose so, they do seem pretty fond of eachother, Angie and Broadway (I still feel sorry for Brook though, he's been after a mate forever!). Greg, i know what you are saying, but I would still like to see Demona catch a break for once. She's suffered a long time and I still believe that the love she feels for Angela may be enough to save her, she did after all spare the life of her mortal enemy Goliath to save her daughter from Thailog. Demona may never feel welcome by the rest of the Manhattan Clan, but perhaps she can at least form a truce with them with Angie's aid.

If Thanatos can redeem himself, so can Demona (he did things that were at least a evil as any of Demona's crimes). Furthermore, I doubt that all of Weisman's old spinoff ideas will be used for the comics, except for Time Dancer and perhaps Dark Ages (which both can be more easily made part of the main storyline instead of separate series altogther). Weisman will be true to his creation, there is no doubt of that, but I hope he reconsiders the time of Demona's redemption.
Dragomir
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:38:09 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Dragomir-- OMG... "Sometimes I think your head stays rock hard, even at night."

You are SO beating a dead horse on this Demona redemption issue. How long was it being argued in here this week that there is a snowball's chance in Hell of Demona being redeemed in the current Manhattan clan's lifetime? Did you listen to ANY of it? Did any of it make any sense to you? Do you even listen to yourself? What you're basically asking is for the writers (i.e. Greg Weisman) to completely cheapen and betray the complexity of Demona's character just for the sake of tying up a loose end that would make you happy. Is that REALLY what you want?

Demona has got to be one of the most complex, interesting villains in Disney history, and the way you're all but chanting "Redeem Demona!" is starting to sound like a mantra calling for character rape.

As for one of your other points... Gargoyles mate for life. Broadway and Angela are a done deal. Again, these things you keep saying you want to see are completely against the nature of the characters.
Kythera of Anevern
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:34:58 pm EST from 24.126.11.109

PGF> I never heard of this Daniel B. Roach guy. But judging by his Top Ten list... he clearly has some personal issues. Not to mention he doesn't get the series AT ALL.

And sorry for the multiple posts.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:27:54 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Sorry Dragomir, but Angela and Broadway belong together, that's not going to change. And Demona will most likely not join the clan. Though I can see her occasionally working with them when it suits her needs.
Though I would like to see interaction beteween Demona and Angela.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:23:37 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

DRAGOMIR> I think the first issue will be an adaption of THE JOURNEY.

" 1) Demona redeeming herself in the eyes of the Manhattan Clan before they all die of old age(I want to she her make amends before this future spinoff you guys mentioned before.)"

Hate to disappoint you, but she's still plotting the destruction of humanity in the year 2198, so... it's sad. It's tragic. It's Demona.

" 3) Angela becoming available again. I'de like to see more competition amongst the males for her affection, it was so funny! Plus I find it unusual that she'd pick her first love as her mate right off the bat, she was bit a bit young after all. I'de like to see her explore her options more."

I think she and Broadway are already very involved. Brooklyn will be with Katana soon, and Lex is gay. And aside from the clones, there are no other gargoyles within a few thousand miles.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:22:35 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

sorry for this double post, it won't happen again, but I had to ask it. Is the new comic going to be targeted towards younger fans like the show originally was? Or will it be designed for older fans like us, who can appreciate the darker storylines that Greg Weisman had originally intended to write?
Dragomir
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:22:28 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Siren: Hmm, I didn't know that-I'm too lazy to read that article right now, but I'll take your word for it.:)

But I do hope the artists on the comic are consistant in their drawing. But I also agree with GregB, the most important thing is the stories. And I'm sure Greg Weisman won't disappoint.

Has anyone read the new top ten list at GFW? :http://www.gargoyles-fans.org/fanwork/topten/daniel_r.htm
Ugh, DIE.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:19:55 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

Hi again, one of the things I'm most eager to learn about the new comic is the timeline of the new stories. I mean, will this story take place right after the events of Hunter's Moon, all the way back in 1995? Or will it take place years later in the here and now, 2006? Also, I'm interested to learn if they will include the first episode of the Goliath Chronicles, which introduces the Quarrymen and is the only episode that Greg Weisman worked on, in the story line, or ignore it completely. In either case, it should be what we've all been waiting for for a long time, gargoyles the way it was meant to be! (:

3rd list of things I'de like to see in the new comic:
1) Demona redeeming herself in the eyes of the Manhattan Clan before they all die of old age(I want to she her make amends before this future spinoff you guys mentioned before.)
2) Demona (if she stays bad) forming a new clan of her own to face off with the Manhatten Clan (I was thinking either outcast gargoyles from around the world or perhaps a band of renegade Avalon Gargoyles. Every clan has its black sheep, Demona and Iago are proof of that)
3) Angela becoming available again. I'de like to see more competition amongst the males for her affection, it was so funny! Plus I find it unusual that she'd pick her first love as her mate right off the bat, she was bit a bit young after all. I'de like to see her explore her options more.
Dragomir
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:17:26 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Dragomir-- I seem to recall saying this to somebody else not too long ago, BUT... I really wouldn't hold my breath when it comes to seeing Lex's sexual orientation being addressed in the comic. Greg said this not too long ago: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=8320

Even though this is a comic and not a return of the series... it's STILL a Disney property, so I still wouldn't expect to see any indicators that would be obvious to anyone except the people who already know.

It's kinda like the Isla de Muerta of Gargoyles... "Island what can only be found by those who already know where it is."
Kythera of Anevern
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 11:04:03 pm EST from 24.126.11.109

StarCreator> Very funny filler, that one. My other showed it to me the other night. I nearly cracked up seeing it. There's an older filler there that demonstrates the author's love for Gargoyles.
http://www.egscomics.com/Filler/d/20041229.html
kingcobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
King Cobra3
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 8:57:16 pm EST from 209.239.132.121

I totally agree Todd...I would love to see some Tempest characters in Gargoyles. It seems like such a logical addition for the series. It's one of my favorite Shakespeare plays, and it has some great characters in there. Would love to see the Gargoyles interpretation of Ariel...

Ok weird pairings...Lex and Oberon. I can actually see Odin and Banshee getting together, though...
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 7:42:58 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

While we're on the topic of art, I managed to spot a little art piece by a webcomic author, where he depicts one of his characters as a gargoyle.

The image: http://www.egscomics.com/Filler/d/20060301.html

I wonder if we should ask him to help promote the Season Two Volume One DVD set via his website...
StarCreator
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 7:24:11 pm EST from 69.244.75.90

Things that I'd like to see in the comic:

1. The Quarrymen handled far more believably than in the Goliath Chronicles.
2. Characters from "The Tempest" showing up (a series that has incorporated "Macbeth" and "A Midsummer Night's Dream" has to include "The Tempest" as well).
3. The Queen Mab business.
4. Brooklyn's Timedancer period, especially how the clan will respond to his being suddenly forty years older (now biologically older than Goliath - though still biologically younger than Hudson).
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 7:09:12 pm EST from 4.244.208.13

Hrm. Link doesn't work. Forgot to http it. Correct link: http://firefox.org/fandom/
Leva - [leva@firefox.org]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 6:42:17 pm EST from 162.42.87.189

Hi guys --

Just a quick note. I'm reviving firefox.org (this is the website where the online Gargoyles Reunion was held a few years back) and turning it into a cross-fandom mega-site.

I'm looking for fannish bloggers willing to talk about things of fannish interest, ranging from movies and TV shows to conventions and the SCA to science to history to writing ... you get the idea.

If you're interested, please check the page I've linked to and let me know. I know there's a ton of talent in this fandom & I'm hoping some of you might be interested in this ... there's no pay for now, but I'm hoping there will be a lot of exposure.
Leva - [leva@firefox.org]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 6:40:50 pm EST from 162.42.87.189

<<2.) Demona possibly beginning redemption>>

You'll need to wait for Gargoyles 2198 for that.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 6:37:52 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Greg B.> "Angela changing outfits> Daddy's girl has to grow up. Afterall, Broadway's going to pop her cherry some time. ;)"

Thanks for the image there, Greg. :P

Comics> What I'd like to see:
1.) Brooklyn's Timedancing Saga
2.) Demona possibly beginning redemption
3.) Lex's mate introduced
4.) References to G2198, possibly during the TD Saga.
5.) More new Gargoyles
kingcobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
King Cobra3
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 6:23:55 pm EST from 209.239.132.121

Never going to happen couples: Taurus and Proteus, Taro and Grandmother, or how about Taro and Tatania. It takes a real twisted mind to come up with these pairings.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Peace!
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 5:13:19 pm EST from 69.54.209.42

I agree with Harvester. Angela is alot like Demona, but in a positive way. She posseses her mom's strong will and determination, as well as her ability to clearly speak her mind. In time she may even become as adept a fighter as Demona, but lets hope she doesn't inherit her mother's tendency to hold grudges....Oh yeah, and I think gargoyle youths rebel like humans do, Angela and the Trio argued with Goliath many time on the show afterall.

2nd List of things I'de like to see in the comic:
1) The defeat of Coldsteel by Coldstone and Coldfire
2) Lexington showing off his new I-pod to the others, lol
3) Angela dragging Broadway with her to the mall at night, makes him carry all her bags
4) How well Goliath and Thanatos are getting along now that they have to live together
5) Brooklyn buffing up, like he was in Future Tense
6) Finding out once and for all if Puck's illusion from Future Tense was even partly true (Lex going bad, Brook tying the knot with Demona, etc.
Dragomir
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 5:07:32 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Angela's New Clothes> I like them too. It kinda shows us how shes developed past her naivete and innocence from growing up a Garg-girl on Avalon to becoming a modern and attractive Garg-woman in Manhattan. Plus, I'm sure Broadway loves it (and Brook probably loves it too, poor guy).

Other Random Comic Cover Comments> I think Goliath has been working out a bit since we last saw him, he looks a bit more beefy than I remember him being. Also, I can't help but wonder where Brook's wings are, they look like they should be in the picture, but i'm not complaining, they could easily be out of frame I guess. And I think its hilarious that NATURALLY, there will be a FULL Moon on the cover of Gargoyles, Issue 1. How appropriate!

Dragomir>
"3) Brooklyn finally finding himself a mate"

-He will. And her name is Katana, not Sata.

"4) Finding out once and for all if Lex is gay (i'm honestly curious to find out if Weisman will go through with his original plan for him)"

-He is. How Greg handles it is a good question, but Lex is certainly gay.

"6) The fate of Thailog after the fire"

-He lives, if thats what you are wondering. Whether he suffers any permenant injuries or not is a good question, but given that hes a gargoyle, I tend to doubt it.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 4:48:22 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Angela's also got an armband and a bracelet I don't remember her wearing before...
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 4:44:12 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

Concerning the cover art, my limited collection of comics has managed to teach me one thing: when a character does go through a wardrobe change, the new outfit usually winds up being better than the old. If this is indeed a change of outfits for Angela, I have always said that she takes after her mother more than she'd like to admit.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Kids come running for the great taste of Sampo!"
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 4:33:57 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

Hi Hardwing, I already knew about the TimeDancer stories, and I know about the fanfic characters Sata, Graemae, and Ariana. I just meant that I want to see it actually happen, Brook getting a girlfriend that is. I also think we shouldn't expect all of the spinoff ideas thought up by Greg weisman to be used right off the bat, it has been a while since they were put on hold afterall (not that I wouldn't like to see them, especially Dark Ages, it would be cool to see how Demona was like before she turned bad.) I'd like to see Brook hook up with one of Angela's rookery sisters from Avalon to be honest. Never noticed the navals before, I'll keep a look out for them next time I watch an episode with Demona.
Dragomir
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 4:28:52 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Lord GargFan>LOL, no, I can hardly draw a straight line. I just read this comment on a german fan-website and decided to ask how the english-speaking fandom which you represent, sees this.

My response on Timedancer was just a response on Dragomir's notes and the fact that I believe that there is hardly someone in the active fandom(on any continents in any languages) who doesn't know about Timedancer.

Dragomir> My remark is no offence to you or anybody, it can be easily forgotten sometimes.

I just thought about your idea with the young ones becoming rebellic, I think you see this too much with human eyes, it is nowhere written that gargoyles develop the same way.
Hardwing - [hardwing@web.de]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 4:19:44 pm EST from 85.182.13.47

Hardwing>Do you work at SLG? That would explain how he knows about the navel. And his cryptic (deliberately?) TimeDancer response.
Lord GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 3:59:13 pm EST from 67.185.229.228

Navels are not only on mammals. They are on egg laying creatures as well. They are just harder to see or disappear completely after some time after birth. How else does the yolk feed the fetus? Their is a cord from yolk to navel that feeds the fetus till its used up and then the baby hatches. This is true in reptiles, birds, fish, and egg laying mammals.
http://www.chicken-yard.net/general/egg-to-chick.html
Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 3:35:03 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

Just FYI, I'm not really making lists of things I want to see. Except one thing.

I just want to see Greg tell the best stories he can in this world. I want to be swept back into it, now a decade after it came to an end. I just want to see all these characters continue to grow. Good stories and good characters.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 3:21:58 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Hardwing: The cover is so small, how can you see Angela has a navel?

That's one little animation nit that always annoyed me- the disappearing/reappearing bellybutton. The animators should have really gotten that straight. I for one hope they are drawn in the comic book without.

Belly buttons occur from the umbilical cord. How would garoyles be born with them if they are hatched from eggs? It's not a question of character design, it's a question of realism.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 3:18:30 pm EST from 64.12.116.8

Ah, the navels. This was a problem in the series too. Sometimes Demona was drawn with one, sometimes she wasn't.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 3:12:40 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Another german fan just noticed something on our Website.

Should gargoyles have navels?

On the cover Angela clearly has one.

By the way, I burn to see changes, too.

Dragomir>On your point number three: I don't think I'm spoilering if I mention Brooklyn's planned Timedancer adventures, so one time he simply will appear with one as with at last one hatchling and an egg.
Hardwing - [hardwing@web.de]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 2:41:55 pm EST from 85.182.13.47

Hi Greg, sorry again. I think I've got the hang of it now, so sorry for taking so long to get it right. I too am excited about the new Gargoyles comic and look forward to how it will turn out since its based on what Greg Weisman wanted the third season to be like. I also love Angela's new look, and I think it may be a sign that she's grown up and matured as a young gargoyle since we last saw her. I'm dying to find out if life in Manhattan has changed her any since she first left Avalon. I'de personally like to see her become more spirited and independent than before, since she's at that age when young people are supposed to rebel, give Goliath a few grey hairs, lol.
Heres a short list of things I hope will occur in the comic:
1) Demona and Angela becoming closer as mother and daughter
2) How close Goliath and Elisa have become since their kiss after the Hunter's moon
3) Brooklyn finally finding himself a mate
4) Finding out once and for all if Lex is gay (i'm honestly curious to find out if Weisman will go through with his original plan for him)
5) The ultimate demise of Sevarius and remaining dead, FOR GOOD
6) The fate of Thailog after the fire
Dragomir
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 2:35:19 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

DAETORA> There are plenty of CosPlayers, yep. Everyone has a good time. You should really come.

The more the merrier.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 2:21:32 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

The beauty of comics is that it's easier for everyone to try on some new threads than it is in animation. :)
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<--- clicky the linky]
"What would you prefer, Yellow Spandex?" -- Cyclops, X-Men
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 2:00:39 pm EST from 71.129.50.91

Ohh, naughty ;D

I would love to go to the con this year, I'm going to see about taking a plane or even driving out to California. Do a lot of people cosplay? I'm thinking about it, I love dressing up :3
Daetora
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 1:57:52 pm EST from 64.12.116.8

Angela changing outfits> Daddy's girl has to grow up. Afterall, Broadway's going to pop her cherry some time. ;)

I for one don't mind either. There'sno reason for her to not change her look a little.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 1:37:52 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Seems to me that you'd just about have to chain Demona and Elisa to each other to force them to work together. Hmm... now there's a thought.

Christine > Stephen King has retired about as many times as the Rolling Stones have gone on a farewell tour.

Comic book cover > Looks awesome, but I knew it would as soon as I heard that Steph was coloring it. Angela wearing something new is cool with me, too. About time she showed a little more skin. ;)

113 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"It's not really a manuever quite yet. Just more of a gesture." - Eddie Izzard as Dr. Heimlich
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 1:05:59 pm EST from 24.106.128.24

Dragomir> For the love of all that is holy, please, please, please, use paragraphs!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 12:55:42 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

For the record, Wallace and Grommit have won EVERY time they've been nominated, but Myazaki is likly to win because the Academy LOVES the older generation and HAND DRAWN animation.

But I'm pulling for Corpse Bride.

If you are wondering about the OSCARS, check out my website on the Oscars (Some of you my have clicked my like before.)

At this link I muse about who I think is going to win.

http://www.geocities.com/oscarmovs/musings.html
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 9:14:51 am EST from 198.53.28.99

Ohh, I was just thinking the other day that Gargoyles should be made into a comic and 'Wham!' here it is! I'm very excited, it looks great.
Daetora
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 7:05:26 am EST from 64.12.116.8

H guys, again, sorry for the double posts, but you don't all have to correct at the same time. I do read all the posts here, so if you see someone correct me on something once, you don't have toe remind like three times. i'm not blind. Secondly, # I don't appreciate being called lazy pal, so back off, I'll check the answered questions, I just didn't think they would contain my very specific questions. Also, thankyou Jurgan for your compliment, I'll try to keep things going this way as long as someone doesn't say anything extremely rude or uncalled for to me, and even then i'll try to ignore them. Also, I want you to know that while I do favor Demona, I understand that she is responsible for most of her own suffering, not the people she has betrayed in the past. Also, I wasn't talking about MacBeth when I said gargoyle murdering jerk, I was referring to Canmore, who is indeed a gargoyle murdering jerk, wooo...what a mouthful. Also, thankyou for answering my question Christine Morgan, I apologize for just assuming you had the time to write fanfics for random garg fans like me. I love your work and I pray that you continue your fanfiction where the story Lylthe left off, I just can't wait to find out what happens to Demona now that she has escaped from hell! P.S. was surprised and pleased to find your post on this site, (:
Dragomir
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 6:38:49 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Cover design: Wow. That is much better. As far as Angela changing her outfit is concerned, I know enough about comics to know that the cover can show one thing, and the inner pages can show something else. But Angela usually looks good, regardless of what she's wearing.

Odd pairings: Only one that comes to mind at the moment is Brooklyn and Sevarius. Did anyone say Elisa and Jon Castaway yet? I can just imagine her waking up hungover to that phony British accent... God, I should be locked up!
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change."
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 5:42:32 am EST from 69.174.3.196

sorry for the double post, but I meant by Steph, lol sorry
Justin - [justin.lindley@gmail.com]
Justin M. Lindley
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 4:34:23 am EST from 71.98.108.19

Hey everyone!
I loved the cover art my Steph, just wondered what the deal with Angela's midriff was? I like it however.

I wanted to say I finally purchased Season 1, and Season 2 Volume 1!!!!!! I ordered them on amazon and they shouldnt be here before too long. :) *fingers crossed. I also have done my part in spreading the word, I have informed four friends in the Chicagoland area about Gargoyles, and they all have told me they picked up season 2, so hey its a start, I am told they will buy season 2 online.

Greg B, I am moving to California a month of so before this years Gathering. But, I will be moving to SF, I still plan on trying to get down. What information can you offer to a con-virgin, who truly has never been to any Con, in his life? I am very anxious to stop lurking and truly be a part of this fandom.

Anywho, weird pairings: I'd say Fang / Demona, Odin / Banshee, and Boudicca / Cagney lol.

By guys
Justin - [justin.lindley@gmail.com]
Justin M. Lindley
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 4:00:53 am EST from 71.98.108.19

And speaking of fanfic!

The deadline for short story submissions to the Gathering 2006's Grimorum Arcanorum Anthology is coming up on March 31st! Art deadline two weeks later, on April 15th.

So get those submissions sent to me, pronto!

For full contest deadlines, click my name or go to:
http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/anthology.html
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 3:49:51 am EST from 70.56.94.10

My ears are burning ... people are talking about me again.

<< I think Christine is the only one who did it. Or at least the only one who did it well. >>

Now, see, I think I just did it FIRST and scarred/scared/traumatized everybody so bad that no one ever dared try again ;)

As for taking story requests, Jurgan has it pretty much spot-on. With a couple extra things to say on the subject:

I have been known to write-for-hire, non-fanfic stories on a paying basis. But for my fanfic, usually I've already got ideas of what I want to see happen and am not looking for more. Besides, I have so many irons in the fire lately that fanfic has become a project that, for me, is few and far between.

Heck, I was supposed to have retired several stories ago anyway ... but, like my idol Stephen King, I can never seem to quite manage it for keepsies.
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 3:47:15 am EST from 70.56.94.10

speaking of Oscars any idea who'll take home Best Animated Feature? we got Wallace and Gromit, Corpse Bride and Howl's moving Castle. my vote would be Wallace and Gromit. but it might be Castle due to Miyazaki fans I think.
Starlioness
Starlioness
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 3:18:06 am EST from 70.58.67.109

GregB: Yeah, gotta agree with you there, I usually stop paying attention to the Oscars after the opening ceremonies. I haven't even seen any of the movies nominated for best. But I adore Jon Stewart too-I'm so glad he's hosting!

comic cover-I didn't even notice she was wearing a halter top thing. Hmm, I don't know, I kind of like the one piece tunic-it sets her apart.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 2:16:01 am EST from 152.163.100.14

PGF> I hate the Oscars. But Jon Stewart is hosting. And Jon Stewart is made of Pure Awesome.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 2:09:00 am EST from 65.33.202.237

I think Dragomir was referring to the original Canmore with the "gargoyle-murdering jerk" line.

hmm, now for something totally off topic- so who's watching the Oscars this weekend?
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 2:07:55 am EST from 152.163.100.14

Angela changed her outfit. Cool with me.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 2:06:58 am EST from 65.33.202.237

oooh that's a nice cover Greg, though I wonder what's up with Angela dressing all Demona like..

this'll make a nice present for my Birthday ;)
Starlioness
Starlioness
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 2:04:38 am EST from 70.58.67.109

Dragomir: First off, thanks for acting more adult-like. Your behavior has really improved since the beginning of the week, and I'm sure we all appreciate it. Just please try to post everything you have to say at a certain time at once. It's not really an obvious rule, at least not to me, and there aren't many explicit rules here. It's just sort of a tacit agreement we have- if everyone posts really fast, then it's hard for people to keep up. We want everyone to be able to participate in conversations, and so it works better if people take their time with their posts. It keeps the comment room moving at a leisurely pace, so we can all read people's thoughts and respond to them.

Now, I'll be glad to answer your questions. First off, I don't know Christine Morgan personally, I've never corresponded with her, and I don't know if she's ever been asked explicitly, but in regards to whether she takes story requests, I'd have to guess the answer is a big no. The logic is simple: If she did write for no pay on request, she'd be flooded by requests, and she'd never have a chance to get anything done. And, frankly, if I understand what you mean by "request," I don't think I'd want her to. I assume what you mean is that you say "Hey, can you write a story where such-and-such happens?" The problem is that a writer who writes an idea given by someone else will not be as passionate about it, and the story will be a lot weaker. I've seen it happen on comicbooks. When the editors maintain strict control over what an author can or cannot do, the story suffers. I've loved most of J. Michael Straczynski's work on Spider-man, because when he came to the title he had a two to three year story arc already prepared, and, except for a rather anticlimactic ending, I thought it was very good the whole way through. A lot of fans didn't like some of the ideas he brought in, but the stories were much more alive than the stories that preceded them, which were staid, unoriginal plots no one would object to, since the editors thought people didn't want to take chances. What I'm trying to say is: I seriously doubt Christine Morgan would take requests to write stories based on ideas you'd like to see, and I think if she did, they'd probably turn out lower quality than her usual work.

As for Macbeth and City of Stone: Again, you're a Demona apologist. I can understand you like Demona and sympathize with her situation, but it seems you want to blame everything that happens to her on someone else. That is deeply ironic, given that it's Demona's insistence on blaming others that causing her so much grief. Do you remember the line, after the massacre, "What have I- what have THEY done?" And, as the Weird Sisters point out at the end of City of Stone: Demona betrayed the castle to the vikings, which caused her clan to be shattered; Demona attacked Gillecomgain, which created the legacy of the Hunter; and Demona betrayed Macbeth to Canmore, which gave Canmore the opportunity to destroy the remnants of her clan. That said, Macbeth does bear some responsibility for what happened, but not as much as you might think. I, too, was confused when Macbeth seemed to consider betraying Demona's clan to the English, because he seemed such an honorable guy up until then. However, he is at best reluctant at best when talking to Bodhe about the idea, yet he seems completely sincere when he later tells Demona, "Never would I have done such a thing! We have been allies for thirty-seven years!" I think Macbeth was wrong to meet secretly with Bodhe behind Demona's back, but Demona should have been more trusting than to throw away an alliance with a man under whose roof she'd been living safely and comfortably for decades because of a half-heard noncommittal conversation. So, based on what we saw, Macbeth bears some responsibility, but Demona a lot more. And, if you're not convinced (since, I admit, the scene is somewhat dubious), let's see what Greg Weisman has to say on the matter in his ramble on City of Stone IV:

" It's also nice to see a legitimately joyful Demona, hoisting Macbeth into the air. He laughs, but his mind's on other things, wondering why Bodhe wanted to talk to him without Demona present. Perhaps he's feeling guilty. Perhaps she picks up on that, which is why she eavesdrops.

A tragedy of bad timing: My sense is that Macbeth is about to read Bodhe the riot act, when Luach interrupts. Mac essentially agrees with Luach, but not with his manner. He takes JUST the wrong moment to teach him a lesson about being a good king. Luach reacts badly and storms out. And it is Luach's behavior that Macbeth is considering when Demona leaves. Two seconds later, I'm quite sure the conversation went like this:

Bodhe: "Well, sire?"

Macbeth: "Well, what?"

Bodhe: "The Gargoyles, sire. You must disavow them!"

Macbeth: "Don't be a fool." etc...

"Never would I have done so! We have been allies for thirty-seven years!!" Demona ain't a great judge of character."

So, according to Greg, Macbeth never considered betraying Demona, but Demona, ever-suspicious, jumped to conclusions and threw away the best friend she'd had in a long time. However, if you still insist on calling Macbeth a "gargoyle-murdering jerk," I'd like you to tell me one time when Macbeth ever really killed a gargoyle? Okay, he came close a few times, but no closer than Demona, who has tried to kill the entire Manhattan clan with a laser gun on numerous occasions.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 1:48:41 am EST from 68.58.253.131

That cover looks awesome. I'm so excited; how are we supposed to wait until June?!

Harvester> Please, feel free to post the link anywhere you like. That was the point of it, to spread the word as easily as possible.
Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon dot com`]
www.GargoylesDVD.com
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2006 1:02:26 am EST from 18.244.2.5

Dragonmir:There is more than just ask Greg. I said, your questions have been answered, you just seemed to lazy to actually look for the answers. There is 4 or 5 FAQ guides out there and a couple encylopedias as well. You did not have to actually ask greg for any answer you wanted.
#
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 11:24:33 pm EST from 66.71.80.73

ooh, I'm liking that cover! I wish it was bigger though so I could see all the details. I haven't had the pleasure to talk to Steph Lostimolo(sp?), but her art is awesome. I'm glad she's doing the covers! (Though also a bit jealous ;) Man is she lucky or what?-Getting to do official art for the show she loves)

strange pairings: Demona and pretty much any current characters that we have seen, Goliath and Thailog (sorry Dtaina ;))
Elisa and Margot Yale-ugh someone wrote a story about this pairing in the GFW-It was...scary.

Warcrafter: Don't stop writing those little tidbits. I thought those last two jokes were really cute, especially the last one :)
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 11:20:08 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

Oh man, I can't wait for the comics. TICK TOCK TICK TOCK. Here that? Each TICK and TOCK that goes by is a second subtracted from the time left till the comics come out. Oh, there goes another second, and another, and another, and another...(6 hours later)....and....a..no...ther...and...a..no...(faints)

Here's another funny tidbit which is just as funny as my other one( if anyone read it. If no one did, they should go back and check, it's pretty funny, unless I'm wasting their time)

The wife walks into the living room, looking at her husband who is watching the NASCAR race. His birthday was coming up and she was thinking of what to give him. "Go, go" he said as he watched. "Honey, is there anything specific you want for your birthday" said the wife. He just loved speed, anything that went fast so he just said, "How about something that goes from 0 to 300 in less then a second." This made the wife ponder but then she had an idea of what to get him. It was the guy's birthday and he was opening his gifts. He got to his wife's gift and said, "Is it something that goes by fast" and she said you'll see. He opens the gift and just stares at what he got. "You said you wanted something that goes from 0 to 300 in less than a second right." "Yes" he said "But not a bathroom scale."

How was that. I think it was funny but it appears that no one seems to care about these fun little extras I do. Maybe I should stop.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"There's an evil monkey in my closet!"
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 11:00:16 pm EST from 69.234.8.165

Dragomir, PLEASE try to refrain from double, triple, and quadrupale posts. We all forget something sometimes. I've double posted before, but with obvious guilt and apoligies for forgetting something. You can include everything in one post. Just press Enter to break up paragraphs to make them readable. Also continually posting like that, with a picture sucks up space and bandwidth on Gorebash.
Siren
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 10:54:13 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

DRAGOMIR> This is not a chat room. This is a comment room.

You don't need to make multiple posts within minutes of each other like that. Just make one post.

And, please, use paragraphs. Your posts will be much easier to read.

I'm not trying to be mean.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 10:52:43 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Hello #, i read your post below, and like i told you before, Greg is not taking questions right now. So i can't ask him even if i wanted to, and yes I do UNDERSTAND you. there, i've made my peace, goodluck and thanks for the help you gave me before
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 10:46:39 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

I haven't seen City of Stone in a while, but I do remember most of it. Demona betrays MacBeth after she hears him discussing the possibility of selling out the gargoyles in order to appease the British allies of the evil Canmore. That gargoyle murdering jerk can kiss the largest part of my....yuck, i just scared myself with that image, lol. Think happy thoughts, think happy thoughts, Demona in a bikini, lol.
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 10:43:34 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Hi guys, I see you've been busy little gargoyles since i was at work, lol. Wolfbane, don't feel discouraged, these guys aren't trying to be mean or anything, just trying to explain how the site works. I'm new around here too, so I know how you feel. Anywho, here is my list of oddest couples, Elisa and Jackal, Fox and Odin, Macbeth and Coyote, Demona and Angela. I saw the cover, I LOVE Angie's new look, looks more like her mom with her new halter top and glowing red eyes. Oh, does anyone know if Christine Morgan takes story requests?
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 10:33:58 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

I can tell Steph's work a mile away! I've always admired it :D Absolutely gorgeous!!!! But I didn't expect anything less. And yeah, she's a LONG time Gargoyles fan artist. I've been an admirer of her work since I first came online. Which was over 11 years ago. She's had a LOT of practice. Talk about a fan artist dream! Rarely in the course of entertainment history does a fan ever get a chance to work on something that they have been a fan of for years. Go Steph AKA Raptor Woman!
Siren
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 10:27:00 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

Wolfbane> *sigh* Listen, I really do appreciate that new fans are still popping up all the time. I think its great you are trying to push the DVDs. I honestly do hope you stick around. But frankly, your spelling and grammar make your posts border on the unreadable and stories about your fellow Junior High classmates and yourself hanging out at the mall could not be more uninteresting to myself and, I presume, most the people in the Comment Room. Please, try to keep your posts on Gargoyles-related topics or whatever else we are discussing and don't go off on these boring tangents about your frustration with your friends, we don't care. But hey, when you find out who makes Homecoming Queen, I'd love to hear all about it. Just kidding. Oh, and spellcheck is your friend, don't be afraid to use it.
And just cuz I'm curious; if you like wolves so much, why not use the "Wolf" avatar? That, at least, would connect your random statement to the Gargoyles Universe a little bit. Not telling you you have to, just wondering why you don't.

Greg B> Thanks again for providing a link for the comic cover. Looks gorgeous. I love it. Coloring is beautiful. Nice to see Angela has her red eyes glowing. Very cool.

GARGOYLES FOREVER!!!
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 10:02:28 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

#> The previous version was colored by Dusty Evans... who, well, his coloring sucked if you look at the first version of the cover.

Thankfully he's off the book.

And Steph has been drawing these characters for years. And her artwork just rocks in general. Paired up with Greg Guler = Pure Awesomeness.

I'm talking Jon Stewart levels of Awesome, and he's made of Pure Awesome.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 9:57:08 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

They fixed Angela's eyes. Good sign.
#
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 9:51:35 pm EST from 66.71.80.73

Greg: Great, looks much better. Only, IT'S SO SMA-ALL!!

*whines about the size and lack of detail*
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 9:30:36 pm EST from 66.168.244.117

Okay, Slave Labor just posted a thumbnail of the cover... as colored by Steph Lostimolo. So, everyone forget about the crappy colors we saw last night, this is the REAL DEAL!

http://www.slavelabor.com/covers/gargoyles1.jpg

Wolfsbane> Yes, please get yourself a MySpace account.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 8:26:08 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

*rubs temples* Oh, my head hurts...

In other news, working on message boards to convince people to buy the series. I showed them a preview by showing them Leader of the Pack. Action packed episode with humour and interesting villians...not to mention a great final fight scene at the end with Bronx ripping into Xanatos' head...of course we find out moments later he's a robot. Its stirred some interest. One person said they need to buy the DVDs :D
Siren
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 8:17:18 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

yeah i know. i ment 2 check it over cause i wanted 2 know how much i was actullay writeing but, i forgot for some reason. odd cause half of the time i was writeing it i was thinking how much am i writeing?
so. sorry people of cyberspace!!!!
heart WOLFBANE^_^!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOLFBANE - [lowman618@aol.com]
WOLVES R COOL!!!
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 7:07:52 pm EST from 172.166.153.23

*suddenly hears James Earl Jones say, "Holy mother of God."*

It's a pity we don't have any heavy animal tranquilizers in stock. o_O
The Sadistic Cow
Constant vigilance!
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 7:07:36 pm EST from 69.157.0.233

Jalepana,look at all the posts :eek:

weird pairings,Elisa and Tony Dracon, Lex and Brentwood, Lex and Coldsteel, Yama and Fang...
Starlioness
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 7:04:05 pm EST from 70.58.67.109

Oh my god.

WOLFBANE: Please, get a myspace account, or livejournal, or gaia, or something or whatever. This isn't your personal space for writing incoherent unreadable journals. Keep it to relevant discussion if you are capable of doing that.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 6:16:49 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

ok my friends r sooo very mean 2 me!!!!!!!!!! i like beged them 2 give gargoyles a chance and they still refuse. well in truth one said she would. i told kilala(thats her nickname) i would bring the 1st dvd 2 school 2morrow so she could barrow it and she was actually excited. this really all got started when i told my friends i was going 2 write a shapesrepen medevil play thing. after i told them i asked my friend zefie(nickname) if she wanted 2 help cause we had been 2 the mall like 1 or 2 days before and while we were in claires she said she liked medevil stuff, she said yeah sure i guess in responds 2 my play ? and then i told her she would also need 2 see some of the stuff i mainly get it all from so she would know what i was talking about and stuff. i gave some gargoyles dvds and asked her 2 watch them and she wouldn't! she said she seen like 1 episode of gargoyles before and didn't like it. 2 that i replyed never judge what u see on tv because sometimes the tv shows episodes that r crapy! i even said that there were some episodes i hated which is the truth cause there r episodes of lots of stuff people hate. and i hate some episodes of gargoyles!!!! not every episode is the best ever. and i have another friend who said she wacthed it when she was like 3 and didn't like it. i mean come on she has changed sence she was 3!!!!!!! so i asked them 2 just watch the 1st episode with me and id drop the subject!!! but they still wouldn't!!!!!! i do have another friend who i haven't really asked because unlike the other 2 her bro liked it so she actually does have a stand point 2 what it is like. they r sooo mean!!!! i mean im like 1 of their bestest best friends and im trying new things 4 them!!!!!!!! i mean im in2 japanese rock and my friend shipo( nickname and shes the 1 who saw it when she was 3) likes green day and fall out boy and stuff like that. now im not saying they r bad im just saying i don't listen 2 a majorly big verity of music and i don't always trust others op.s but i mean even thought i like them and stuff i tried them just 4 her and she can't possible rember how it was!!!!!!!!! many people sometimes don't get their 1st meromies till thier 4!!!!!!!!! and even if she ends up not likeing it(which i doubt would b the case if she just gave it a chance now) she can at least try it 4 1 of her friends!!!! i mean i wacthed it around 3 &4 but all i could really remaber was someone liked elisa and broadway once actidentaly shot her!!! i mean i just used 2 think oh gargoyles yeah that show from when i was young i guess it was good? but 1 night i wacthed it on jetix were it's still running a little at night and some memroies of faces came back, still had no names but it came back, and i watched it and loved it. and also shes a little bit gothic. or at least wanted 2 b at 1 point so i think she may enjoy it!!! ok the point is don't u think my friends should watch at least 1 episode just cause their my friends!!! and should friends suport u and the stuff u like and the things that make u really really happy?????????
later days!!! heart WOLFBANE^_^!!!!!!
WOLFBANE - [lowman618@aol.com]
WOLVES R COOL!!!
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 6:08:21 pm EST from 172.166.153.23

I think Christine is the only one who did it. Or at least the only one who did it well.

Most fanfic authors follow Greg Weisman's rules on gargoyle biology. Gargoyles lay one egg every twenty years, and the eggs themselves take ten years to hatch. So, Goliath and Demona never got the chance to conceive another egg.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 5:43:56 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

thankyou for the info Harvester of Eyes, I'm new around here too. hope to catch ya later!
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 5:32:30 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Dragomir: I'm still relatively new to fanfic, but there is an author in the fanfic archives called Reno's Demona who created a character named Reno, Demona's daughter and Angela's half-sister. But I'm currently waiting for her to repost a lot of her work (she used to have more stories on the site, but she only has three now).

Kaylle: Would it be all right if I posted the link to the Gargoyles DVD website on this group panel I discovered on Myspace?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change."
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 5:08:58 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

has anyone else ever done a story about Demona and Goliath having an evil son like Christine Morgan's Jericho? Or another child (male or female) other than Angela?
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 4:58:49 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Nikki> Demona and Elisa working together, in a story? How about ... "Fraternal Twins" by Duncan? Okay, It's most likely not what you meant, but it surely fits the requirements ... It's on the GFA (or behind my link)
Guandalug la'Fay - [guandalug@gargoyles-fans.org]
It has been said that the world is a strange place. This is not true. The world is a VERY strange place.
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 4:53:34 pm EST from 80.145.68.82

I forgot about Turquesa because I haven't seen The Green episode in a while
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 4:51:36 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Not being familiar with Steph Lostimolo's work, I did a search for examples and found this website (I'm assuming this is the same Steph Lostimolo). I figure there may be other people in here who aren't familiar with her, so I'm sharing the link. Some really lovely stuff here.

http://www.nethersphere.com/
Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon.com]
www.GargoylesDVD.com
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 4:46:30 pm EST from 18.244.0.88

Oh yeah, you're right Matt. I wonder if there is some form of genetic link between Jade, Turquesa, and Obsidiana with the Scottish and Japanese gargoyles. Maybe a gargoyle or two from another region somehow found their way to Guatamala and interbreeded with the Mayan Gargoyles, thus producing a rare but existing strain of mixed race gargoyles with two legs and bat type wings in place of feathered wings and a snake's body, and of course the Mayan head crest you mentioned. Don't ask me how the foreign gargoyle parents made their way over to south america of all places without avalon's assistance, just a theory to mull over, (: . Can anyone tell me if Christine Morgan takes story requests? I love her fanfiction but don't know if she writes stories for other fans by request because she is after all a professional author outside of the gargoyles fandom.
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 4:45:12 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

(: You know all the talk about Trolls has inspired me. I hereby declare the first ever contest to find the King of the Trolls. Winners will be banned! (; Just kidding.
How about this for an odd couple Nokkar and Puck.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Peace!
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 4:32:22 pm EST from 69.54.209.32

Ah, the Mayan Gargoyles, my favorite Clan. Aside from Zafiro, I have to disagree with you that Jade and Obsidiana (why no mention of Turquesa?) look just like Scottish Gargoyles.

Mayan Gargs ALL have a very obvious feature, a crest of some kind. The only other gargoyle we see with this kind of crest was Ophelia, and her crest seemed to be in combination with horns, and of a different sort than the Mayan Gargoyles.

I hear this same sort of thing a lot about the Ishimuran Clan, that they look just like Scottish Gargoyles. I totally disagree with that also.

I can honestly say that if you showed me a random gargoyle from somewhere in the world circa 1996, I could tell you what Clan they are from no matter what clothes they are wearing.

Greg has said 75% of the Mayan Gargs have the snake-like bodies or the feathered wings or the reptile features Zafiro has. It is only coincidence that the other three Pendant Wearers displayed the less common features.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 4:14:41 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Lol! I definitely agree about Elisa and Demona being the least likely characters to become a couple. However I wouldn't mind seeing a storyline that involves these two characters having no other choice but to work together.

On a separate note I would just like to wish other Welsh fans a Happy St Davids Day.
Nikki
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 4:04:18 pm EST from 62.252.32.16

Dragomir> Nah, things aren't THAT bad. In fact, they're not bad at all. :-)

anon> Thanks for the link, buddy.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 3:54:58 pm EST from 209.239.132.93

Phil> snake babies! Awwwwww....jalapena! It bit me!
Anon> thanks for the web address anon, been dying to learn about the new comic
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 3:49:25 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Not sure if someone has posted this yet, but I found this article about slave labor's panel at the nycc. it talks about the gargoyles comic. enjoy.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6799
anon
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 3:47:06 pm EST from 160.39.107.80

Sorry to hear that King Cobra, hope your situation changes soon. I make typos all the time too, lol. Yeah Greg, i admit it, sentences are indeed my friends.....we are legion, for we are many, mahahaha! (Demona walks up, backslaps me and says, "Behave yourself human! And help me with these spells, I need them catagorized by tonight." I glance up and say, "Gee Demona, what are we gonna do tonight?" She smirks and says, "The same thing we do everynight Dragomir, try to take over the world!")
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 3:46:57 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Dragomir,
Actually, I believe that Zafiro was the one who most closely resembled his clan. If I remember correctly, a majority of the Mayan Clan were serpentine before they were smashed. And since the clan's eggs hatched eight years ago, I would guess there are dozens of toddlers slithering around the pyramid now. (Can toddlers slither?)
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 3:43:34 pm EST from 69.129.121.95

*be able to afford it*

Gah, I can't type right today.

There should really be an edit option here.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 3:32:06 pm EST from 209.239.132.93

Greg B.> "Then I would suggest buying ten new copies of the season 2 DVD everyday for the next year if you really want to increase the chances."

GAH! With all the current expenses I'm taking of, (rent and getting an apartment and etc., plus going to G2006) I wouldn't be afford to it. Plus, I wouldn't know what to do with all those extra copies anyway. I don't know THAT many people. LOL.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 3:30:16 pm EST from 209.239.132.93

Dragomir> Paragraphs are your friend ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 3:25:48 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Wow, that is cool Ellen, nice research. Always wondered about how Demona put that world shattering final spell of hers together (good thing for us she failed becuase otherwise Greg Weis wouldn't be around to continue the series in the future, lol). Oh, and Spen, thankyou for the advice, i'll try to stick to it. Anywho, remember the characters Jade, Zafiro, and Obsidiana from the season two episode Green? They were so cool and I loved Zafiro's unique serpent like appearance (no doubt based on the winged serpent god Quetzecotal, hope i spelled that right). However, i was confused by the physical appearances of his two companions Obsidiana and Jade, they look nothing like him. I still think they are awesome characters, and wish we had seen more of them, but it always bugged me that Zafiro did not resemble his clan at all. I mean, if not for their accents and clothing one could have mistaken them for the demonic looking Scottish gargoyles the Manhatten Clan orginate from. Can any explain to me why the series creators failed to make the Guatamala Clan more closely resemble one another? Like how Griff and his clan all resemble winged mythical animals, etc. Was Zafiro too complex a character design to duplicate for Jade and Obsidiana? (which probably isn't the case but I would still like to know). Appreciate it.
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 3:15:48 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

In the wake of the recent talk in this forum of Demona's spell in the Hunter's Moon episode, I find myself reconsidering something. As far as I can tell from Internet research, the term "hunter's moon" was actually coined by the Algonquin tribe of northeastern North America as one of the names given to the full moons of the yearly cycle (specifically, the one following the harvest moon). For Demona to be using it as part of a spell involving an Italian artifact from the Renaissance period always seemed anachronistic to me, although I was more than willing to overlook this in the interest of good storytelling on the part of the Gargoyles production team. Now, however, I see how this supposed anachronism actually fits nicely within a spell encompassing a variety of periods, cultures, and technology. By considering the spell in light of its seemingly unrelated and very far-reaching components, the scope of the spell -- and its potential destructiveness -- seems all the clearer.
Ellen
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 2:00:12 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

Dragonmir : FYI, this is not a chat room, this is a comment room. If you have multible topics to post about, you can put them all in one post.

The Sadistic Cow : Thanks for the info.
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 1:10:39 pm EST from 216.248.119.208

Bi-monthly is every two months. Twice a month would be bi-weekly.

Note to several people: Paragraphs, capitalization, punctuation, grammar, and spelling are your friends.

Top 10 Unlikely "Gargoyles" Couples...

10. David Xanatos and Diane Maza
9. Princess Katharine and the Archmage
8. Owen Burnett and Preston Vogel
7. Tony Dracon and Tomas Brod
6. Goliath and Lexington
5. Macbeth and Delilah
4. Vinnie Gregarino and Margot Yale
3. Fox Xanatos and Lord Oberon
2. Angela and Thailog ("Oh, that's not right!")
1. Elisa and Demona

114 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering]
"I like my women like I like my coffee. In a cup, with a spoon." - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 1:01:40 pm EST from 24.106.128.24

Apologies for the double post....Posession is also needed. Thanks
Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 12:41:51 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

Does anyone have episodes Turf, Pendragon, Future Tense, The Journey, and Runaways on their computer? I need some scenes from them for a AMV. My video capture card is not working :(
I need the scenes of Brooklyn. Or the entire episodes. Without audio is fine, since I don't need it anyways. Thanks
Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 12:38:10 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

KC> <<With the success of Family Guy: The Movie, and the news that Futurama will have 4 direct-to-video-and-DVD movies coming out sometime in the next year or so, it makes me curious about the chances of someday having the entire VA cast and the crew re-teaming to make (at the very least) 1 or 2 Gargoyles DTV movies.>>

Then I would suggest buying ten new copies of the season 2 DVD everyday for the next year if you really want to increase the chances.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 11:25:44 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Mismatched couples> Peter Maza and Anansi!

Hell, anyone and Anansi!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 11:08:56 am EST from 65.33.202.237

I am sorry for the double post but that was me. I am not using my normal computer and had forgotten to fill in the variable fields.
#
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 10:15:01 am EST from 128.118.89.62

Matt: Bi-monthly refers to every other month so 6 issues a year. It is usually done for low selling books, special format books, or when creators do not have time to get out a monthly issue.
Anonymous
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 10:14:03 am EST from 128.118.89.62

How about Demona and John Canmore? that would be downright bizarre couple! (plus down right impossible, lol)
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 9:57:21 am EST from 134.241.91.92

Hey all, just a reminder that MGC has updated, and needs you vote for the Gargoyles in Paradise topic from last month! Also, March's topic is something you can ALL enter, so go check it out. ;)
And don't forget AMGC!
kess - [< you have no excuses this month!]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 9:25:23 am EST from 68.41.249.79

O.O ... for a second I thought I accidentally clicked on the CHAT room. But then I remembered that the chat room is never this busy anymore. :P

Mismatched couples? Hudson and Titania? Goliath and the weird sisters? ;)
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"We are not talking about THIS terrorist" -- Weird Sisters, Gargoyles
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 9:13:25 am EST from 68.66.254.122

Okay, I'm off to bed. BBL.

*notices and hopefully fixes the "TSC" thing off his name.*
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 8:31:03 am EST from 209.239.132.106

*notices the error*

Eeps. Dammit.

*curses his tired brain*
TSC> King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 8:26:30 am EST from 209.239.132.106

With the success of Family Guy: The Movie, and the news that Futurama will have 4 direct-to-video-and-DVD movies coming out sometime in the next year or so, it makes me curious about the chances of someday having the entire VA cast and the crew re-teaming to make (at the very least) 1 or 2 Gargoyles DTV movies.

Matt> Funny pairings, huh? Oberon and Demona.
TSC> King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 8:23:53 am EST from 209.239.132.106

yeah, i totally agree with Siren here. the story-telling is priority one for me. from what we've seen so far, the artwork looks better than the old Marvel comics, so its hard to complain about it. didn't Greg W say recently say that he had seen some of the art and he thought it looked good?
really, i'd be happy with the art as long as we weren't seeing Goliath with five fingers on each hand, or Elisa with blue eyes, or Fox with blond hair or something like that. as long as the story and writing holds up, i'll be happy.

and speaking of the comics, i haven't bought a comic book since the last episode of Marvel's Gargoyles, so i don't know anything about comic lingo. when they say its a "bi-monthly" release, does that mean one issue every other month? i assume it does, but it sounds an awful lot like twice a month. *shrugs* anyway, i probably look dumb, but thats ok.

that article says its coming out in June probably. dd we know that before? thats exciting, only 3-4 months to go!

HofEyes> Thailog and Grandmother, yeah thats a pretty good one. what about Odin and Beth Maza? lol. or Vinnie and Una?
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 8:21:02 am EST from 24.182.146.1

I kinda like the character designs. Definitely better than what we saw from Marvel all those years ago. And given what I saw at Steph Lostimolo's website, it should look pretty good when she gets her hands on it. The shading will definitely be a lot better.

Kythera: You're not alone. My work schedule for the next six weeks is Monday-Friday from 7:30-3:30. But on the plus side, it should be fun to come back and peruse what I've missed. Especially if I follow my habit of reading from the top-down. ( ;

Siren: Agreed. The main thing I'm excited about is finally getting the proper third season of Gargoyles. Maybe we could all organize a TGC tape burning sometime.

Dragomir: Funny, I usually think Demona's hot when she gets angry. Which is probably why we should all be glad she doesn't exist.

Matt: Hilarious match-ups? How about Thailog and Grandmother?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change."
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 6:54:48 am EST from 69.174.3.196

hi everyone, what today's topic of discussion?
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 6:18:20 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Christine? as in Christine Morgan?
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 6:17:42 am EST from 71.192.76.212

matt > that one post (you know the one I mean) was highly amusing. Thank you. It's being a bitchly night at work and I very much needed the laugh!
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 3:23:19 am EST from 70.56.94.10

P.S. goodnight everyone, and i'll try to stick to one avatar so there won't be anymore confusion (Demona, awwww....isn't she cute when she gets all wrathful and red eyed? lol)
Dragomir - [DRACO1601@Comcast.Net]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 12:59:19 am EST from 71.192.76.212

its okay Greg, I was just so freaked out and didn't understand what was happening, got desperate and scared. Never been flamed before, at least not like that, but i was rude too, so i'm sorry. i hope we can be friends too and discuss gargoyles peacefully (i'll try not to rant so much and ask too many questions)
(:
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 12:56:35 am EST from 71.192.76.212

hello #, i didn't know i was causing so much trouble with my questions on GWF. Like i told you before, Greg is not taking questions right now, so i couldn't ask him (checked some of the stored answeres though). Next time tell me if I'm being a pest on GWF so I don't get cuaght in the middle of a flame war i know nothing about! Okay, i'm sorry if I was posting too much, i'm new to the site and was eager to chat with other fans. But i'm not sorry for wanting to learn more about the show's universe. Thanks for the links, and i for one am sorry for any trouble i caused with my over excessive questions. But i didn't deserve to be flamed like that, regardless.
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 12:54:22 am EST from 71.192.76.212

DRAGOMIR> Yeah, Alex Garg analysed the IPs, and well, open mouth, insert foot. I can admit when I'm wrong. I'm sorry.

But the way you wigged out made you really look like DL. But, we can all play nice I hope.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 12:48:44 am EST from 65.33.202.237

So, does anyone know when this new comic is supposed to first hit the shelves? (i'm willing to listen to any rules of conduct you guys might have here, something about there being only 8 posts for my questions?)
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 12:47:50 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Hi guys. I read the message posted by Alex Garg in the Fanwebsite's chat room. I'm sorry too, I know my freaking out ddin't aid in my defense, but i was so scared! I had no idea who this guy you accused me of being was (read Alex's link, you were right, this dude is sick, sadistically sick). I apologize for all my rude comments, which I assure you i only made out of fear and frustration out of being all alone in this, and I hope there won't be anymore flame wars, i understand why you all seemed so worried about this jerk returning under a different name. I just want to chat guys, not torture you like that other dude did, promise. Okay, no more rants from me, hope we can all laugh at this mix up later. greg, matt, obed, jennifer, i think most of my insults were directed at you, i'm sorry, please forgive me, and i'll forgive you. Thanks
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 12:43:27 am EST from 71.192.76.212

Here, here, Siren. I concur. I want those comics for the stories. I do expect a high degree of professionalism in the art, though. Still, I don't think it will look ugly. And don't forget, the animated series of Gargoyles, though for the most part was beautifully animated, had animation hiccups and other problems in the art on the show itself. But I don't think anyone here will not buy the comic even if it were nothing more than half-assed kindergartner scrawl. Well maybe that's a bit extreme...
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 12:39:21 am EST from 71.57.178.10

Frankly, the artwork comes second to me. Knowing Greg's on board for writing gives me a lot of faith in the book. So far, the little art we've seen from the comic, its good. Not Frank Paur's style, but another artist's style. And that's not a bad thing. So far, the character designs are true to the original. Just something we have to get use to. Also, its a bit early to be judging a book by its cover anyways. Until the comic is released, everything is just "work in progress". I rather not down a comic over seeing a few bits and pieces of concept art and a "cover" that may or may not be the final product. I'm just happy Greg is continuing the series. Let's not be so hard on the artists and support the book. Otherwise if the book gets poor reviews before its ever even released, how long do you think they are going to keep making it? Better to wait till the book is released, READ it, and THEN judge it.
Siren
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2006 12:33:16 am EST from 65.33.112.205

That's the same color I saw at WonderCon that left me horribly depressed. Very flat. Very dull. Thankfully, we won't have anything to fear once Steph does her number on it. GO STEPH GO!

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for the inside art. If anyone wants to see Hedgecock's art, buy Haunted Mansion #2 and read the "Mystery of the Manse". That's Hedgecock's stuff (along with Dusty Evans who was suppose to be the original colorist... good riddance). I'm going to assume that it was a last minute OMG WE NEED AN ARTIST job that has left it looking the way it does. (Especially since that story started in Issue #1 and was unfinished art and roughs by another artists). So yeah... fingers are crossed and they will stay that way until I see evidence that tells me I can uncross them.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"My days of not takin' you seriously are certainly comin' to a middle" -- Captain Reynolds, Firefly
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 11:06:19 pm EST from 68.66.254.122

I've seen Hedgecock's work on other books, and well, I wasn't impressed either.

::Wishes Greg Guler was doing the interiors::
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 10:55:53 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

And just a reminder... Greg Guler (who did the pencils for the cover) is NOT the interior artist. To be honest, I've seen some of David Hedgecock's work and... was a LOT less than impressed. >.<

So much for not treating this like the chat room. XD
Kythera of Anevern
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 10:52:38 pm EST from 24.126.11.109

Spen: The IPs are hidden; you have to select where they are for them to show up. They are located right next to (for example): posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 9:48:18 pm EST, and then it says "from" and then the IP address.
The Sadistic Cow
Constant vigilance!
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 10:51:58 pm EST from 69.157.0.233

Matt> If you like that, wait till you see the final version of the cover. I haven't seen it yet, but considering that Steph Lostimolo is coloring it (that's not her work), trust me, we're all in for a real treat.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 10:49:09 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Christ, I go to work and come back to find n00bz mistaking the comment room for the chatroom again. Lordie.

Anyway... Greg B, that is DEFINITELY not Steph's style, so those are for certain not her colors.

Yeesh... Man, after looking in here, my crappy day at work doesn't seem quite so bad. Still, I'm sorry I missed out on all the fun this afternoon. ;P
Kythera of Anevern
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 10:47:54 pm EST from 24.126.11.109

oh, and Greg B, thanks for the comic link. i love it, cover looks great. my favorite thing about it is that Angela is on the cover. that strikes me as so cool.

this would be a good time for me to say to ALL OF US, to all the people who have posted in here, attended one or many Gatherings, bought the DVDs, maybe several times, to everyone who puts so much work into our love for this series with their talents, to all the voice actors and crew of the series who put up with us and came to the Gatherings, and esspecially to GREG WEISMAN, i want to tell EVERYONE how proud i am of ALL OF US as a collective fandom. no matter what happens with the Volume 2 DVD or the comic, we have all really impressed me over the years. its taken a lot of time, i lot of work, and a lot of money spent, but look at us: ten years after this crazy show we love went off the air here we are. Disney has seen us, they know we are here. and thats so encouraging. we are finally getting the episodes on DVD and it still gives me chills to think that in a few months we will all hold in our hands the first new canon Gargoyles stories in ten years. i can't wait. and frankly, without all of us and everyone else i mentioned above, esspecially Greg Weisman, we wouldn't have those stories.

i just want to say again how PROUD i am of this fandom. I think we should all applaud ourselves. i am so honored to be a member of this fandom, you guys have made me laugh and made me think a lot over the years, and now thanks to everyone out there you guys are giving me what i have hoped for for ten years, new stories.
THANKS EVERYONE SO MUCH! give yourselves a pat on the back!

and for the record, i vow that if i ever win a lot of money i will pay for everyone to attend a huge Gathering! and i'll pay all the cast and crew to be there with us.

THANKS AGAIN! you guys rule!
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 10:45:23 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Great cover art! I'm assured that the comic will be extremely similar, if not exactly, like the series.

Matt>>There's always Demona/"Dominique Destine" and Castaway, but that sounds too much like a reality show. But I'd watch it :)

Seriously, though, I think that Coyote and Hyena would be...interesting.

And I forgot to post this with my question, but I hope that we see Morgan and Sevarius in the comic.
Lord GargFan
1 copy of Gargoyles Season Two, Volume One, $40 (@ msrp). Helping to save the show you love, priceless.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 10:41:09 pm EST from 67.185.229.228

"Matt: What time frame if any, does your prize suggest for the formation of the Lexington- Xanatos Corp.?"

honestly, it doesn't say anything about that. the only place it mentions the Lexington-Xanatos Corp. is when he describes the LXM (Lexington-Xanatos-Matrix) robots, and that is only to say that they are a product of the Corp.

man, i really thought i'd try to lurk a bit more this week, but as fate would have it i'm posting more than ever. oh well, i'm having fun. it was hilarious trying to come up with the most unlikely pairings of Gargoyles characters. Xanatos and Elisa's mom was good, but i really liked Anubis and Proteus. anybody think of some hilarious match-ups?
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 10:25:23 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

A small question : How is it possible to know someone's IP here?
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 10:23:32 pm EST from 216.248.119.208

Wow. I don't even recognize the place anymore.

Todd, you will be rambling on the comics, won't you???
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 9:48:18 pm EST from 198.53.28.99

cool cover. Looks a lot more like the animated series than I thought it would. Of course that's the cover art and not interior...but still, very promising and a tasty tidbit of what's to come. I also got sucked into that article, very interesting. I was amused by what he said about the Gargoyles fans.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 9:41:46 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

I love this excerpt!

Vado says that fan reaction since last years deal with Disney was announced has been unbelievable, and also a little intimidating, "We've been in the crosshairs as a company since we first announced this thing. I was surprised at the exact number of fans still out there for each one of these properties. I mean, I've been to 'Gargoyles' conventions since then…and, believe me, those things are the real deal. If you think the fans at one of these Comic-cons are serious, you should see those 'Gargoyle' guys."
Siren
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 9:40:51 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

Just FYI, I doubt that's the final version of the cover. Steph Lostimolo is doing the colors for the cover, and that doesn't look like her work.

So, expect the final version of it to look much better.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 9:24:58 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Greg B.> Thanks for the link, man. :) It got me excited for the comic all over again.
TSC> King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 9:23:14 pm EST from 209.239.132.2

Now for a new topic.

Who wants to see te cover for the first issue of Gargoyles?

http://comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6799
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 9:07:37 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

I find it interesting that Dragomir expected real answers when there were 8 posts within a 15min time span.

*ahem* Enough troll bashing. I'm going with the crowd and say more Morgan! Other than Matt, he's the closest person Elisa has on the force, and a source of advice on a few occasions. It'd be nice to see more of him, especially in action. Other than Morgan, more Halcyon Renard, just because.
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 8:48:11 pm EST from 66.168.244.117

Hey, guys, can't we all just get along? I, for one, feel Dragomir's pain. I'm 43 and married to my patio furniture. Also, a scantily-clad, bat-winged demoness with blue skin and red hair changed my oil filter AND realigned my shocks last Friday. I'm not lying.

Greg B: I didn't know you'd joined the dark side. I might have run into you at one of the Sith potlucks and not even known it was you. Have you ever come across a Darth Draconius at one of those functions? If you have, that's me. Unless, of course, Spacebabie is lying when she says you're Sith.

matt: You're a funny man. I haven't laughed at something like that on the internet since I found Chefelf's "Nitpicker's Guide to Star Wars" over a month ago.

GargFan: Good question. We know from "The Journey" that Margot is probably going to be more than a bit character. I wouldn't mind seeing the three street thugs in one issue (I don't know if they had names, but I know Keith David voiced one of them).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"You're not the only one with weapons, laddie." -Macbeth (from "City of Stone, Part Four")
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 8:40:14 pm EST from 69.174.3.196

I would like it to be known, I am the one who gave Dragonmir the link here. He was spamming the hell out of GFW and I got tired of it, so I sent him here so he could get unarguable proof about his questions. I also directed him repeatidly to ask greg at GFW a concept he seemed to not understand, I am not sorry about my choice, because I felt it was the right thing to do.
#
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 8:33:06 pm EST from 66.71.80.73

Hey guys,
I know I am new ( again) I used to post here regularly in 1996. But I am seriously looking to return here. I made a post last night about the Dragomir situation but I do not know anyone here well enough to truly get involved now.
I had some questions for people who may know the answers..

Matt: What time frame if any, does your prize suggest for the formation of the Lexington- Xanatos Corp.?

Greg B. you seem to have a wealth of knowledge on all of this, both fan based things and the show, I'd love to bend your ear once in awhile...

Anyway, I do look forward to further posts with all of you.
Justin - [justin.lindley@gmail.com]
Justin M. Lindley
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 8:13:58 pm EST from 71.98.108.19

Damn, I know. the day isn't over yet and there have already been over, i don't know, 50 comments just today. OMG, I THINK I'M GOING TO LOSE IT AGAIN,AHHHHHHHHHH SOMEBODY PLEASE GIVE ME A COOKIE.

FUN:Here's something new for my fun tidbit, read it.

There's a woman who gets aboard a plane. She gets to her seat and sits down. She wants to get some rest during the flight until this guy sits right next to her. He is really hyper and starts talking to her. "Hey, do you want to talk during the flight so it doesn't seem so boring. I like to talk do you? You don't have to sleep, it's only about a 5 hour flight." The woman just says "No thank you, I just want to get some sleep." The guy then just keeps talking. "Oh come on, how about we make it some sort of game. Yeah, how about we ask each other questions. If you answer one of my questions wrong, you give me a dollar but if I get one of your questions wrong, I give you a dollar." The woman simply repeats with a no thank you. The guy just keeps on talking. "Come on. How about this. If you answer my question wrong, you give me a dollar, BUT if I answer one of your questions wrong, I give you 100 dollars. How about that." Knowing that she won't be able to get rid of this guy, she decides to play along. The guy talks first. "Alright..um.. oh, what type of force is used to keep an object constant while in space?" The woman, already bored simply says "I don't know" and then hands him a dollar. "Alright your turn" said the guy. After a few seconds the woman then asks a question. "What goes up a hill as a sphere but down a cube?" The guy just stares at her meaning he doesn't know the answer. He then pulls out his cell phone and calls some people asking that same question. They didn't know so he then takes out his labtop and checks the internet for the answer. About 5 hours later, he's still on the labtop looking for the answer while the woman is asleep. They then land and the woman wakes up. The guy then puts his labtop away and says to the woman "I don't know the answer" and he then hands her 100 dollars. The guy then asks her "So, what does go up a hill a sphere and down a cube?" The woman says "I don't know" and hands the guy a dollar.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"There's an evil monkey in my closet!"
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 7:49:42 pm EST from 69.234.8.165

OH THE DRAMA!!!! *faints*

These last few hours have been hilarious. Thanks :D
Siren
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 7:18:24 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

*does an "IP Whois" on Sam Spade.org*
Well... Not only do they have different IP addresses, but completely different ISPs. Dragonmir is Comcast, Demonic Liver is AOL. I'm not so sure it's the same person.... While they both seem to need to take a double dose of Ritilin, Dragonmir hasn't claimed to have seen Demona land in his back yard yet. (seems to be the only difference, though)
Leo
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 7:12:17 pm EST from 68.107.154.71

Gah. Stupid keys screwing up my last post.

*kindly asks TSC to kill the typo demons for him.*
TSC> King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 6:49:53 pm EST from 209.239.132.2

TSC> Thanks for the advice. :P Now that you've mentioned it, my "roommate" wouldn't really mind me doing that, as long as I don't cross my own limits.

As for the comic, I'd like to see the Timedancer storyline. It'd be interesting to see Greg resolve the issue of whether Older Brooklyn will retain his 2nd In Command status (now that he'd have his own family and all) and let's face it, the guy deserves a mate, anyways.

A less likely thing (But I'd like to see it regardless) is Lex's mate being introduced. *is mildly obsessed with who/what (Garg? Fay?) it could be*
TSC> King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 6:48:15 pm EST from 209.239.132.2

"I'm not Gabriel, but i feel like him right now. he shouldn't kiss Ophelia, she'll poke his eye out"

LMAO!!!! Matt that post was the funniest thing I've read in a long time! :D
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 6:42:56 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

KC: Have a few drinks beforehand, perhaps? :P ;)

I'm hoping Morgan makes a few appearances in the comic. I always did like him from the times I saw him in the cartoon; he's a great minor character and I'd hate to see him go to waste (or just not be there at all).
The Sadistic Cow
Constant vigilance!
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 6:39:55 pm EST from 69.157.0.233

*exhibits his anxieties over flying this June.*

Does anyone have any tips for securing a calming, panic-free time for a 1st-time flyer?
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 6:29:58 pm EST from 209.239.132.2

*finally stops laughing... takes a deep breath...*
ok, i think i scared D/DL away... time to get serious again... thanks for calling me funny, guys. i guess if ignoring a troll doesn't work, you have to go to the other extreme... i considered continueing my rant until i included every character in the Series, but decided i had enough to show my point... my favorite part is Angela and Broadway having sex on Xanatos's desk, lol.

Lord GargFan> eventually, i'd like to see Zafiro or Jade/Turquesa come pick up the Sun Amulet, but i really doubt thats gonna happen as it would be too hard to explain all the back-story there.

i think the most likely non-regular character we are bond to see in the comic is Morgan or Jason or Chavez.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 6:28:39 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

*de-lurks for a brief moment, wondering when the comment room turned into a chat room*

D/DL: Wow... I think somebody needs a nap. Or maybe a sedative. One that is mostly used in horses. o_O
The Sadistic Cow
Constant vigilance!
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 6:06:30 pm EST from 69.157.0.233

I'm going to sidestep a giant landmine and pose this question:

Who do you see appearing in the comic that is not a series "regular" (i.e., the Manhattan clan, Elisa, maybe the term can be extended to Xanatos and Owen)? What role do you think they will play?

Something else to keep our thoughts positive.
Lord GargFan
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 5:59:04 pm EST from 67.185.229.228

LMAO.

Well, at least this troll/ogre/orc has given us something to laugh about. Glad you find all of this so amusing, matt. ^ - ^

*snuggles up to the warm fire with a cup of hot cocoa and wrapped up in a quilt* Good times.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 5:57:06 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

Wow, matt, you are a funny, funny man. It's rare that I actually laugh out loud at internet posts, but yours got me going.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 5:54:45 pm EST from 69.242.194.4

*reads D/DL last post*

you gotta be kidding me, now you are getting Greg and i confused!!! i'm not Obed and i'm not Greg!! LOL
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 5:43:41 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

"and I'm terribly sorry, Demonic Lover/Dragomir. You're not an asshole.
You're a Dumbass." - Obed

omg, i havn't laughed so hard in weeks! LOL LOL LOL

ya know D/DL, i have to congratulate you. you just might end up being the first troll we ever remember after you're gone.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 5:32:29 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Slightly off-topic, I know, but still semi-relevent to the fandom, and which I feel like sharing.

Copied and Pasted from my LiveJournal (http://www.livejournal.com/users/kingcobra_582)

Boy, what a bizarre dream that was!

It was cool meeting Keith David and Johnathan (sp?) Frakes (in my dream, duh.) and actually shaking their hand, though for some weird reason, JF's toupee had gray streaks. Odd. Also, I could (and still can) actually feel the touch of Keith's rough palm.

I THINK I saw Thom Adcox there as well, but he was heavily bearded and his back was turned, so I couldn't really tell. I remember in the dream, also wanting to go to a store to get a notebook and pen so as to keep detailed entries of each day at the Gathering. But for some reason, we couldn't. Troy was on the trip with us (!?!) but he'd popped out of nowhere when all of us were sitting in what seemed like an office or something, watching the "Future Tense" episode on the monitor near the ceiling. Also, in the dream, I remember walking down road, dreading a possible earthquake. Or something.

David and I also went to a mall (I think. I definitely remember seeing escalators.), and we drove around in some van with a bunch of people, one of whom was Baby (from Devil's Rejects.) and we were going to dinner or something.

That was when I woke up.

How strange, though it was kinda fun at the same time. I wonder if something like this has ever happened to anyone else?
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 5:31:27 pm EST from 209.239.132.220

another great Dragomir/Demonic Lover quote:
"I'm not a troll, tell me what it is!"

LOL. D/DL, if you want to say i fabricated that quote too, go ahead, its clear you said it, LOL.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 5:29:34 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

DAMMIT MATT! You just had to go and reveal my secret identity! Now Demonic Lover/Dragomir is SURE to hate me! *cries*

and I'm terribly sorry, Demonic Lover/Dragomir. You're not an asshole.

You're a Dumbass.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 5:28:34 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

Matt> "i'm not Obed, i swear. I promise i'm not Obed. who is the Obed person anyway? sounds like a mean guy. I'm not him. why would i say i'm not him if i was? i've never heard of Obed before. what is an Obed? oh yeah, and i'm not Obed... you guys are so mean. i'm not Obed. i promise i'm not Obed. just like Goliath promised he wouldn't use the Eye of Odin, guys, i promise i'm not Obed. GOLIATH ROCKS!!! but i'm not Goliath either. i think Goliath should have gotten together with Titania or maybe the Princess. in the real world Goliath and Margot Yale would've had sex already. Margot and Elisa are lesbians together. and Bronx watches them do it. i think Zafiro and Banshee should hook up. they'd make a good couple. i'm a lot like Banshee... but i'm not Banshee. i swear you guys, seriously, i'm not REALLY Banshee, i'm just like her. i'm not Obed either. seriously guys, why are you so mean to me? DEMONA ROCKS! i promise i'm not Obed. Greg B, you are the meanest one. i didn't shoot anyone's dog. you are so mean to bring that up. how would Gabriel feel if you shot Boudicca. thats not cool to talk about my favorite characters like that. I'm not Gabriel, but i feel like him right now. he shouldn't kiss Ophelia, she'll poke his eye out. i hate Ophelia, but the other gargoyles are ok. i hate Una too. i think she wanted to have sex with Angela. Angela and Broadway had sex on Xanatos's desk i think, thats why Xanatos hates gargoyles. Brooklyn reads the Grimorum while hes on the toilet too. thats why Xanatos had it in a protective case. Brooklyn should marry Lexington, they are best friends. my best friend is my computer. my computer is named Hudson just like the coolest Scottish gargoyle ever. I'm not oBed by the way. i'm really someone else, but not Obed. you guys should believe me cuz i'm telling the truth. i also read all the Ask greg archives, more than anyone else here, tahts why i know that Alex is actually Yama and Fox's love child. they had sex when Xanatos was having an affair with Elisa's mom. actually, i think Coyote was involved in that affair too, the robot, not the Trickster. the archives also said that Natsilane watches gay porn while eating his Cheerios in the morning. but hes not really gay, just curious about porn. you know who IS gay though? not Obed, cuz i'm not him. Matt Bluestone is only gay on Wednesdays, but the biggest gay guy on the show is Anubis. it was so obvious after i read that. oh my god, i think Anubis is watching me right now. seriously guys, hes outside my window. what should i do? i should tell him to stalk Obed, cuz i'm not him. i am so special, Anubis is my secret Admirer. and all this time i thought him and Proteus were a couple. guess the obvious isn't always what actually is, right guys? you guys are so mean. i really am not Obed though. ISHIMURA ROCKS! i think Bruno and that one lady were together, don't you guys think so? Bruno and Canmore were brothers, Greg told me so. i just found out that Gillecomgain is my great uncle, six times removed. i'm gonna be the hunter, they won't call me Hunter Obed though, cuz i'm not Obed, just the Hunter. my favorite Hunter was Grandmother. she was cool when she became the Hunter Thunderbird. that was my favorite thing in Gargoyles. wanna know a secret guys? Obed is really Egon Pax, tahts why no one likes him. i'm not Obed though. no one likes Puck either, hes so boring. i think Puck and Turquesa would be a good couple, but unfortunatly Turquesa and Dingo are getting married next June. oh well, would've been cool though. why are you guys so rude to me? you are so mean, cuz i'm not really Obed. anyway GARGOYLES FOREVER!!!"

ROTFLMMFAO!!!

*clicks on the Ask Matt & Phil button and requests a copy of The Prize.*

KingCobra_582@hotmail.com
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 5:28:23 pm EST from 209.239.132.220

*acts out Mark Hammil as Luke in The Empire Strikes Back

"Ill never join YOU!"*
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 5:26:17 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Matt, You claim you are not going to the dark side...but it's so clear you have become GregB's Sith apprentice.
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"People are like stars. There are bright ones, and then there are those who are dim."~ Hot Ice Hilda
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 5:22:40 pm EST from 70.185.6.104

I know who you are Greg, and you are by far the biggest troll of all thanks to that last rant of yours. I'm sorry Obed for mistaking you for matt, but you don't have to call me an asshole for making an honest mistake. P.S. i'm the only person who knows who he is here judging by how far you are all taking this, bye.
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 5:22:34 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

sorry to dissapoint you guys, but i won't be joining the darkside today. i was just having some fun with the Comment Room's current pet troll.

Greg B> you just want me to come to the Gathering so i can show you The Prize. : )
i was at 2002 in VA, but havn't had the funds to go to one since. thats the crappy part about all these Gatherings on the coasts, i'm stuck in the middle of the country...

and given Demonic Lover/Dragomir's comments, i think he thinks I'M Obed or something. or has us confused or something. not surprising since he is having trouble figuring out who HE is.

i'm not Obed, i swear. I promise i'm not Obed. who is the Obed person anyway? sounds like a mean guy. I'm not him. why would i say i'm not him if i was? i've never heard of Obed before. what is an Obed? oh yeah, and i'm not Obed... you guys are so mean. i'm not Obed. i promise i'm not Obed. just like Goliath promised he wouldn't use the Eye of Odin, guys, i promise i'm not Obed. GOLIATH ROCKS!!! but i'm not Goliath either. i think Goliath should have gotten together with Titania or maybe the Princess. in the real world Goliath and Margot Yale would've had sex already. Margot and Elisa are lesbians together. and Bronx watches them do it. i think Zafiro and Banshee should hook up. they'd make a good couple. i'm a lot like Banshee... but i'm not Banshee. i swear you guys, seriously, i'm not REALLY Banshee, i'm just like her. i'm not Obed either. seriously guys, why are you so mean to me? DEMONA ROCKS! i promise i'm not Obed. Greg B, you are the meanest one. i didn't shoot anyone's dog. you are so mean to bring that up. how would Gabriel feel if you shot Boudicca. thats not cool to talk about my favorite characters like that. I'm not Gabriel, but i feel like him right now. he shouldn't kiss Ophelia, she'll poke his eye out. i hate Ophelia, but the other gargoyles are ok. i hate Una too. i think she wanted to have sex with Angela. Angela and Broadway had sex on Xanatos's desk i think, thats why Xanatos hates gargoyles. Brooklyn reads the Grimorum while hes on the toilet too. thats why Xanatos had it in a protective case. Brooklyn should marry Lexington, they are best friends. my best friend is my computer. my computer is named Hudson just like the coolest Scottish gargoyle ever. I'm not oBed by the way. i'm really someone else, but not Obed. you guys should believe me cuz i'm telling the truth. i also read all the Ask greg archives, more than anyone else here, tahts why i know that Alex is actually Yama and Fox's love child. they had sex when Xanatos was having an affair with Elisa's mom. actually, i think Coyote was involved in that affair too, the robot, not the Trickster. the archives also said that Natsilane watches gay porn while eating his Cheerios in the morning. but hes not really gay, just curious about porn. you know who IS gay though? not Obed, cuz i'm not him. Matt Bluestone is only gay on Wednesdays, but the biggest gay guy on the show is Anubis. it was so obvious after i read that. oh my god, i think Anubis is watching me right now. seriously guys, hes outside my window. what should i do? i should tell him to stalk Obed, cuz i'm not him. i am so special, Anubis is my secret Admirer. and all this time i thought him and Proteus were a couple. guess the obvious isn't always what actually is, right guys? you guys are so mean. i really am not Obed though. ISHIMURA ROCKS! i think Bruno and that one lady were together, don't you guys think so? Bruno and Canmore were brothers, Greg told me so. i just found out that Gillecomgain is my great uncle, six times removed. i'm gonna be the hunter, they won't call me Hunter Obed though, cuz i'm not Obed, just the Hunter. my favorite Hunter was Grandmother. she was cool when she became the Hunter Thunderbird. that was my favorite thing in Gargoyles. wanna know a secret guys? Obed is really Egon Pax, tahts why no one likes him. i'm not Obed though. no one likes Puck either, hes so boring. i think Puck and Turquesa would be a good couple, but unfortunatly Turquesa and Dingo are getting married next June. oh well, would've been cool though. why are you guys so rude to me? you are so mean, cuz i'm not really Obed. anyway GARGOYLES FOREVER!!!

and that, Demonic Lover/Dragomir is what a troll sounds like. sound familiar?
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 5:15:56 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

okay um...BWAHAHAHA

alright, demonic lover/dragomir...i find it midly humorous that you continuously bash me when I haven't even said anything at all to you. I'm thinking you are confusing me with matt, despite the fact that we use completely unrelated pics and the color of our fonts are exact opposites. I suggest you leave and spare making yourself any more of an asshole than you have already proven yourself to be.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:56:01 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

Oops, sorry Obed, my bad. Greg threatened to hang me (this is so ridicuous)
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:51:17 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

P.S. I didn't threaten to hang anyone, Obed threatened me! (there i'm done, bye)
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:50:07 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Done with me? Jennifer, I don'y even KNOW YOU! But okay, I agree with the guy with lex as his avatar, i'm going to go cool off. But before I go, I'll say this (1) I'm not lying, just a victim of circumstance and paranoia (2) i'm not Demonic Lover ,never have been, never will be, hope i meet him so we can settle this nonsense sometime. Okay, i've made my peace, so i'll leave now. Thankyou to whoever suggested cooling off, hope we can chat later if its okay, i'm sorry for whatever caused all this weirdness, i just got very upset (you try being ganged up on by an entire chatroom Jennifer, and see how you handle it!)
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:49:17 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Dragomir> How can you rant endlessly and threaten us yet still expect us to respond with you? No offense, but go have a calming cup of milk or soda, and then xcome back...nice and calm and sensible-like.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:42:46 pm EST from 209.239.132.220

To echo what Jen said... Yes Matt, welcome to the dark side!

Are you coming to the Gathering this year? You really should.

::Chants:: One of us! One of us!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:34:22 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

You still don't get it? It's not the Elisa/Goliath thing that has us pissed off. ... it's YOU. We don't like being lied to. We don't like someone threatening to HANG us. We don't like it when people have conversations with themselves in post after senseless post.

YOU are the problem, Dragomir/Demonic Lover.

You are not a Quarryman... you are simply a liar with major issues that we shouldn't have to deal with. I'm done with you.

Matt> Welcome to the dark side. LOL
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"Dear diary: Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy. ... Today we were kidnapped by hill folk, never to be seen again. It was the best day ever." --Jayne, Firefly
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:32:16 pm EST from 71.129.50.91

Obed> Did you shoot this guy's dog or something?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:31:28 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Farewell and goodnight, I hope that Obed has matured and moved out of mommy's basement by the time i return. Leaves a Don't feed the Jackass sign on Obed's back before disapearing into the night, severely disappointed in his fellow garg fans for their rude comments (i bet Trekkies aren't this cruel to newbies either...)
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:30:28 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

good grief, thanks a bunch guys. I bet Obed is a forty yearold man who lives in his parent's basement at this point, judging from how much delight he takes in my misery here (sadistic weirdo, not doing a good job of following the gargoyle way buddy)
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:28:20 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

I doubt that Demonic Lover would be trying this hard to prove his innocence you guys. I'm not a prankster or troll or whatever you think i am. Just give me a chance, i don't want to be an outcast here. i didn't know saying what i said about Elisa and goliath would piss everyone off, okay? (slowly hanging myself? god, whats so funny about harrassing a guy for speaking his mind?)
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:25:37 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

ROTFLMAO

This IS fun.

Hahaha, so funny. At this point, Dragomir, even if you are not Demonic Lover, you'd still be cracking us up with your posts.
*shakes head and laughs*
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:25:01 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Can't believe i did that, god.....one freakin typo and suddenly i'm a quarryman in everyone's eyes
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:23:05 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

oh fuck. you're right, i did write that Obed. its a typo, i swear
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:22:09 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Sorry, i meant jennifer. Maybe i should hang you Greg?
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:20:53 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

You are twisting my words Obed. It has become obvious now that you guys are teasing me for fun, not because you really believe i'm Demonic Lover. And to think someone recommended this room to me, saying it could answer all my questions. I did not promise I was Demonic Lover, you are fabricating my statements. Please stop Obed, its not funny anymore.
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:20:13 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

This is fun.

::Continues to watch the troll slowly hang himself::

Who the Hell is Jenna anyway?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:19:37 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

I'm twenty years old jenna, and i have the right to my opinon. its immature to flame someone just becaus e you disagree with them. I keep posting because i want to prove i'm not this guy you all think i am, and for the last time, what is a troll? I could come up with a rude remark to call you, but i'll be the adult here and leave it at this, "I feel sorry for a person who condemns a guy for making a comment for debate on a comment room and makes him feel like Typhoid Mary."
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:17:27 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Dragomir> i think you hurt your i'm-not-Demonic-Lover case when you said:

"Demona blew it but i won't, even though i promise i'm Demonic Lover"

hehehe, this is fun.
*makes new sign: "Do Not Feed The Trolls... Tease Them"*
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:15:33 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Dragomir - You can't prove something that's not true. Sorry.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"I don't know who's the bigger fool... him for going, you for following or me for not leaving you both!" -- Demona
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:15:22 pm EST from 71.129.50.91

what do i need to do to prove it then? I feel like i'm being ganged up on here. I promise you guys i'm not who you think i am, I just want to chat. What do i have to do? I don't want to change my screen name just so i can chat next time, so what the heck is wrong?
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:12:54 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Demonic Lover or Dragomir or whatever name you wanna play under this time... This is just sad now. Please go back to MySpace and leave it all alone here. You obviously don't realise the pattern that distinguishes that it's you. It's rather obvious to us (and more so as you get upset, like Matt pointed out).

We can't chat with you like adults, because you behave like a child. In fact, I'd guess you are about 12 or so by the way you write and converse. You assume that we find something wrong with Demona because we don't agree with you that Demona and Goliath should be a couple. That's just idiodic and completely immature. Most of us LOVE Demona as a character. But NONE of us think that Demona and Goliath will ever be a couple again.

I would like to suggest maybe seeing a doctor. That's not a joke or a jab. I mean it.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"I don't know who's the bigger fool... him for going, you for following or me for not leaving you both!" -- Demona
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:11:35 pm EST from 71.129.50.91

PREVIOUSLY, IN THE GARGOYLES COMMENT ROOM...

2003, three years ago this week...

Gabriel "gaygoyle" was 1st!
Not a very busy week, but not really slow either. Only a few topics were discussed much, and those were mostly discussed by a few people. The smaller conversations focused of Xanatos's motivations for waking the Clan and why the Clan would ever abandon New York, perhaps for Avalon. The main topic of the week, however, was about a crossover of the X-Men Universe and Gargoyles Universe. Lots of aspects of this topic were discussed such as who would typical humans fear more, how Demona would feel about Mutants and who, if anyone, she would ally with, etc. X-Men in general were discussed by several fans of that Universe. We also discussed whether it would be harder to be a Mutant or a Gargoyle in New York.
Quote: "Then again... maybe it'd be better to be a Ninja Turtle. Even if it's not easy being green." - Patrick

2004, two years ago this week...

Wingless was 1st!!
Again, not a busy week, but not slow either. There was not much Gargoyles related, except that we (once again) had a major discussion on the problems with Ask Greg. Most of the conversations of the week focused around other Universes (Batman, Superman, Transformers, etc), but there were a few Gargoyles Universe discussions. A few comments were made about things in Gargoyles being different in a post 9/11 world (would airships be allowed over city? numerous bombing throughout series, etc.) One interesting topic was about Demona's physical aging (mostly in City of Stone). Towards the end of the week the main causes for the Wyvern Massacre were talked about briefly before the room cleared.
Quote: "Unfortunately, I can't erase "stupid questions"..." - Todd Jensen

2005, one year ago this week...

Brain was "Numbah 1".
A pretty busy week. We started out by talking about Gargoyles as a comic or a novel. Interesting to hear people talk about a Gargoyles comic before we knew there was going to be one. We briefly talked about all the other movies and stories about gargoyles (almost always negative views of them). Someone asked how we would react to seeing a real gargoyle if one suddenly appeared before us and the answers to that were varied and often funny. The fact that Gargoyles talk led to a discussion on animal communication and language. That discussion somehow led to talk about the existence (or not) of certain creatures like dragons, the Loch Ness monster, Bigfoot, etc. This cryptozoological discussion led us up to the room clearing. Interesting conversation.
Quote: "As for whether or not these creatures exist, I fear we may not know for sure until their habitats are turned into multi-million dollar lake front housing and the yuppies start complaining about lake monsters getting into their trash." - CKayote
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:11:22 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Everybody likes Demona. I adore Demona, she's my favorite character in the series.

And, btw, you're not doing much, well, you're not doing anything, to show us your not Demonic Lover. In fact, you're proving you are Demonic Lover with each new post.

And you're the one who needs to play nice. Not us.

Nope, no apologies from me.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:08:16 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

whats wrong with liking Demona anyway? she's a cool and original character, and one of the few gargoyles who can face Goliath one on one (except for Thailog and Griff). Can i at least have one chance to prove myself here guys? Don't the gargoyles always believe in second chances? (Demona blew it but i won't, even though i promise i'm Demonic Lover
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 4:02:18 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

My name is listed under the Gargoyle's fan Website's new author list. I haven't written anything yet because i'm caught up with school work. Look for my name there, my author's name is Damian Praye. (do i have any sympasizers here? some justice....breaks troll sign in half and goes to a corner to fume alone until someone is willing to chat like ADULTS)
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:57:56 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

I had no idea how unfriendly this room could be, I'm sorry if this Demonic Lover Guy pissed you off but i swear its not me, and I don't understand why you are being so hostile. I just wanna chat normal like everyone else.
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:54:48 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

MATT GET A LIFE YOU CREEP!!!!! I'm not leaving and i'm not Demonic Lover! I'm obsessing because i'm insulted and hurt, okay! I'm not a troll, tell me what it is! (i'll stick with demona then)
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:52:40 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Okay....guess not. in that case i'll just drop it, its not worth getting pissed off over (i'm gonna have an unfriendly chat with this Demonic Lover guy someday i freakin swear...). How about this, is this too inflammatory for discusion? When do they plan to release this new Gargoyles comic i've been hearing baout lately? will it continue where season two left off? ignoring the Goliath Chronicles? (worst season ever....)
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:50:27 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Dragonmir> i didn't think you WERE Demonic Lover til this latest tirade. now i'm convinced Greg B was right. Demonic Lover did the same behavior a couple weeks ago, posting small rants in quick succession, changing avatars each time.
plus you are so obsessed with the Demonic Lover thing, you wouldn't be unless it was you.
"Take off that mask, your not fooling anyone" Demonic Lover

Obed, i should follow your suggestion (and my own), but i couldn't resist here.

*searches through the old Comment Room storage trunk (remember, we have no closet) and pulls out a sign. hangs it on the door: 'Don't Feed The Trolls!'*
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:45:01 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

thanks for making a guy feel welcome....i know you're there Obed. Answer me please so we can straighten things out.
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:44:31 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Would someone please explain this trolling business to me? I just wish to understand why everyone is so mad so i can stop it. please
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:42:14 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

sheesh, i can't believe you guys spent the bulk of your chat talking about and insulting me, what are you? highschool students?
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:40:43 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Up yours Greb Bi, I'm not a troll! Why are you all attacking me? I apologized didn't I?
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:39:08 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

I'm not saying you can't debate with me, i just saying you didn't have to attack me and accuse me of being someone else. who is Demonic Lover? sounds like a real charmer....
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:37:05 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

What the hell is a troll anyway? slang for internet pest or something? sheesh, nice guys, real nice.
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:35:23 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

so I guess the next time someone says something inflammatory, with the sole purpose of creating opposition, or completely and utterly irrelevent to anything that might be discussed in this comment room...I guess we will not even respond to them.

*looks down...*
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:34:04 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

Okay ladies and gentlemen, I AM NOT THIS DEMONIC LOVER BLOWHARD YOU ALL SEEM TO THINK I AM! (i was going to say something rude in place of ladies and gentlemen, but decided against such crude actions). I have never been to this site before and do not understand what the hell trolling means. I'm new around here and as much as i love the show Gargoyles, i rarely get the chance to watch it except on saturday because it comes on so early in the morning. I will not apologize this time for stepping on anyone's toes, because now you have all gone and insulted me. I'm a twenty year old college student who has rediscovered his love for Gargoyles very recently, and there fore does not know any of you or know of your lame ass rules or standards. I am not an idiot and i think its very rude and immature of you guys to label me as such when i am only trying to enjoy chatting with fellow Garg fans. I understand Demona is no freakin' saint, alright, I simply like the character and sympathize with her (i personally like bad guys and gals better than heroes on TV, but anti-heroes are my fave! though i do like Brook and Angela, wish they had worked out, poor brook). So in the future folks, please get all the facts straight before you jump on top of someone who just happens to like the same character as some other person. Dragomir is the only name i have ever used, so up yours guys! (happy now jerks, no second signature! big freaking whoop!)
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:33:16 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

HEY GUY!!!!! HEY, ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW ABOUT TOKYO MEW MEW? MY AND MY FRIENDS LOVE LOVE LOVE TOKYO MEW MEW!!!!!!!!!! ONE OF MY NICK NAMES IS MewMew!!!!!!!!!!!
later days
WOLFBANE^_^ - [LOWMAN618@AOL.COM]
lex rocks!!!!!!!!!!1
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:27:08 pm EST from 66.194.217.222

sure you did, Jurgen, sure you did... lol : )

why do we care so much about trolls? just ignore them, they'll go away, thats the best way to thwart them.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:26:59 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

matt: I can't speak for others, but I promise you that I knew you were joking about Titania's whisper. I just thought I'd try to be funny about it. Seems like I failed.

And, yeah, Dragomir is likely just a troll, but I'm not sure if he/she/it is Demonic Lover. The IP doesn't match what Demonic Lover was using a couple of weeks ago, but then, DL did use two different IP's then. Hell, this is the third computer I've posted from in the last 24 hours.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 2:59:05 pm EST from 153.9.83.130

Yeah, I tend to agree with Greg B. here. He's trolling and nothing more.
Siren
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 2:30:43 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

GregB: ah ok *g*
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 2:08:35 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

PGF> Let's just say, I have a lot of experience dealing with trolls and idiots who post under aliases.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 1:53:08 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Matt: I knew you were lying about that ;) And sorry about your test, Ouch.

GregB: just curious, how can you tell dragomir and demonic lover are the same?
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 1:50:51 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

GregB> I was thinking the same thing there. Especially with the Demona Sympathy comments.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"I'd rather hunt with Dick Cheney than drive with Ted Kennedy"
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 1:36:05 pm EST from 71.129.50.91

DRAGOMIR> By the way, Demonic Lover, cut this stupid "posting under different names" bullshit. We're not stupid, we know it's you.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 1:34:28 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

"oh yeah, and in it Greg says what Titania whispers to Fox, its pretty cool."

I'm still debating whether or not you're telling the truth, or if you're just pulling our legs.

*Sees Egon Pax crew and storm troopers being pushed aside by a group of people dressed in steel clan suits. a la Xanatos, then all bashing down the door to Matt's house, only to be met by Disney assassins who detain them all and bring them to the Disneyland/Disney World underground detention facilities.*

Phil, can you confirm *cough*or "leak"*cough*cough* this?
Lord GargFan
Praying for Matt to somehow "anonymously" post the outline.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 1:20:48 pm EST from 67.185.229.228

you guys are nuts. like Greg would ever tell Phil and I what Titania whispered and no one else! i said that as a joke, and i thought it was so far-fetched that you all would know i was kidding. apparently, i should've waited to say something like that until April Fool's Day, lol.

if i DID know though, if Greg had told Phil and I, i wouldn't ever bring it up, cuz i wouldn't want to be pressured to tell. count me as one of those who kinda likes not knowing, or even better, i like that Greg can use it as an incentive, like when he said he'd tell us if 500 (1000?) people attended a certain Gathering. maybe he'll agree to tell us if the series ever gets back on the air. or maybe he'll tell us on his deathbed. or amybe we'll never know. who knows? not Phil and I, so tell your garg-fan stormtroopers to go home or i'm calling the police.

stay tuned. still plan on doing the "Previously... " thing today... i have some time now that i bombed my Zoology test... ugh.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 1:20:41 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Just so it doesn't get lost in the all this...

DRAGOMIR> Read this link....

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=262
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 1:17:04 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Kythera of Anevern>I have to agree with you about Demona, though I would not write this way. She is a psycho, born out of her own weakness of not being able to acknowledge her fault at the massacre of her clan by Wyvern. This weakness or vulnerablity which translates itself in hate is her greatest motivations and maybe the reason why she is such a great character.

But even without this, I would doubt that there is any chance of her and Goliath coming together since there is nothing which could tie them except for Angela(neverless fanfiction authors should be allowed to interpret this a bit, the fandom would be boring otherwise)... but even their daughter can not be a foundation for a relationship. Goliath is the hatched protector, whose instincts as very much fixated on humans, while Demona had a strong dislike for this race even before the massarce and I can't see her happily protecting humans the rest of her life.

Even if Demona would recognize her own part in the massacre of her first clan(and minor that of the Moray clan) I can't see her as a protector of the human race, she never showed it as Wyvern that she any interest to do so and if she would in the future than only because of her feeling of guilt... there would hardly a way for her to rejoin a clan which protects humans now even more than 1000 years before and I would like to read how she becomes after her ephipanie in "Gargoyles2198".

Elisa and Goliath make a much better couple and they fit much better in the premnise of the show which is to show the gargoyles troubling to get along with the humans. Despite their different races they have the same nature of being protectors and fit much more together... which naturally doesn't mean that their love will be conflictless, just that they have the best foundation.
Hardwing - [hardwing@web.de]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 12:57:45 pm EST from 85.182.5.139

King Cobra3>Where can I go to read more about "The Prize"? And, also, what exactly is "GMPA"?

The GMPA is the Gargoyles Minority Protection Act. See posts below.

"The Prize" is from a contest that was won by matt and myself. We have the only copies (and I suppose Greg W still has the original). Therefore, you'd have to go to matt or me to read more about it. Just click on "Ask matt & Phil"...
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 12:56:40 pm EST from 69.129.121.95

"oh yeah, and in it Greg says what Titania whispers to Fox, its pretty cool."

*imagines a squadron of Garg-fans dressed as storm troopers massing outside of matt's house*
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 12:54:54 pm EST from 69.242.194.4

Demona may not be a flat, one-dimensional villain, but she is a villain. Yes, I feel sorry for what hapened to her, but a lot of it is her own fault. Not all of it, but a lot. If she hadn't made a deal with the Captain to betray the castle, the massacre never would have happened. Yes, the humans mistreated them, but saying that she was right to betray them all to capture and possible death at the hands of the vikings is going to far. It was a reprehensible act that she was responsible for, yet she insists on blaming others for it. It wasn't the last such act she committed either. And in trying to blame others, she continues to cause misery to others which repeatedly comes back to bite her in the ass. Until she stops blaming others for her problems, she'll never be at peace.

On another note, you say Goliath and Elisa would have problems because he would outlive her, yet you want Demona and Goliath to have a relationship? You understand that Demona will stay at the age of thirty-five (or something) for the rest of eternity, and Goliath will die in at most a little over a hundred years or so, right?

I know it seems like we're all ganging up on you, Dragomir, but your comments were pretty intense and even inflammatory. Coming in and calling Elisa a hussy is not a good way to win friends and influence people. All evidence is against your opinions. I'm not saying you should apologize for them, but you should rethink them, and finish watching the series.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 12:51:45 pm EST from 69.242.194.4

"oh yeah, and in it Greg says what Titania whispers to Fox, its pretty cool."

O RLY?

:: heats up the red hot pokers and cues up the Egon Pax episode ::

115 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick
" You survived the Fire Swamp. You must be very brave... but nobody withstands The Machine." - the Albino, "The Princess Bride"
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 12:42:13 pm EST from 24.106.128.24

Justin: Welcome! You sound like an educated fan :)

#: Yea, I meant the rest of the clan aside from Hudson. I'de really like to see Goliath wear modern clothes, though that probably wouldn't happen.

Phil: Ahah! Thanks, that's where I read it. I knew I read in an encyclopedia-type format. (See, I'm not crazy ;))

Dragomir: "No, wait, its not fair to call Demona a villain, I'de be bitter and angry too if all my family and friends had been slaughtered (and my mate ran off with some hussy shortly after being revived, lol, that was messed up). "

Don't go there. And you are contradicting yourself. First you said that Goliath and Elisa took forever in getting together and act like teenagers, but now you're saying they got together right after Goliath was revived??
And like Kythera said, it would be out of character for Demona to suddenly redeem herself with the clan. I thought you said in your last post you were against writers making characters do certain things just to make the fans happy. And she is a villain. She almost commmitted a mass genocide on an entire sentient species. What can be more evil than that? She's not a black and white villain, she's had a very troubled past, and she has reason and motivation to do what she does, but that doesn't make it right. (And btw, Demona is not redeemed in Goliath's lifetime, it's in the archives.)
And I like Demona too, she's such a complex character, but she and Goliath obviously don't belong together.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 12:25:23 pm EST from 152.163.100.14

Matt> Very intriguing stuff, there. Where can I go to read more about "The Prize"?

And, also, what exactly is "GMPA"?
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 12:21:05 pm EST from 209.239.132.220

Nikki-- I think you're still kind of missing the point of Hudson. Hudson is sort of the living reminder of where the clan came from, and I think that would be lost if we saw Hudson cleaned up and adapted beyond the La-Z-Boy, much of that element of his character would be lost. I can see special occasions, but on the whole... Hudson is pretty set in his ways. Personally, I'd be kind of disappointed if Hudson looked less like his Old Solider self on a regular basis. He just wouldn't be Hudson, anymore.

Dragomir-- So, basically, you wanted to see the depth and complexity of Demona's character cheapened significantly just so that she could have made peace with the clan by the end of the series, instead of the writers being true to her character? And that you want Golitah to be pining for what had become a mentally and physically abusive relationship? (Do you remember Demona trying to blow him away with a bazooka in Awakening 5?) Here's a ramble from Greg W. that I think puts the unliklihood of 20th-century Goliath and Demona ever getting back together in clear perspective: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=262
Kythera of Anevern
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 10:50:06 am EST from 24.126.11.109

No, I'm not necessarily looking for a younger Hudson, but would think it would like to see him physically adapt a little to the present day. I wouldn't like a total change in his appearance, as I like the Scottish old soldier kinda look; anchors the gargoyles to where they origniate from.

I know Hyena is supposed to look creepy, but she reminds me more of an insect more than an actual hyena - all those rangy limbs. Thats probably why I find her creepy, more so than her brother.
Nikki
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 10:09:22 am EST from 62.252.32.16

Ooooh, matt... You're in trooouuuble! (Just kidding)

It's neat to have exclusive info like the G2198 prize. But its also fun to share it. If I ever get to a Gathering, I'll bring my copy for anyone to enjoy.

I included the information in my Gargoyles Glossary (which, by the way is in dire need of an update). That's probably what was mistaken for Todd's encyclopedia. Click my name to see it.

"oh yeah, and in it Greg says what Titania whispers to Fox, its pretty cool."
Now you're just asking for trouble, matt.
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 9:24:09 am EST from 69.129.121.95

sorry for the TRIPLE post. and here i thought i'd be posting less this week...

i went through my old email folders and found some email correspondences between Greg, Phil and I. all of this is from mid-2001, not long after the Gathering.
This is not from Ask Greg.

Phil Wrote:

Thanks, Greg!

I got my prize in the mail today and it's very cool! Thank you!

It's kind of ironic that I wrote <<The contest was almost a prize in itself;>>
since the prize turns out to be an expanded version of the contest. Actually I assume the contest was an abridged version of the prize, am I right?

I assume it's alright to discuss the few extra revelations in the comment
room. Goliath's death as part of the impetus for the GMPA; N'Kai, the name of
Nokkar's race; extra information on each of the twelve clans; etc.

Most interesting to me was the fact that this is an actual proposal for a CGI
series. What kind of response did you get?

Anyway, thanks again for the prize. I'm planning on being in Virginia Beach in
thirteen months, so I'll see you there.

Phil

Greg responded to us:

Phil & Matt,

As usual on this sort of thing, I am fairly ambivalent about revealing anything.
But I wouldn't have sent this stuff to you if I wasn't basically okay with the
world knowing what it contained.

So go ahead, reveal. All I ask is that

(a) you be careful that you are being accurate. Don't extrapolate from what's
there. Only report what you know. (You can feel free to speculate further of
course, but make it clear when you are speculating and when you
are citing the document.)

(b) don't just reprint sections of it. Or the whole thing.

Thanks,

Greg

-----------------------------------------------------------

so, there ya go. i might've crossed the line just by quoting a few lines, but i think Greg'll let it slide. i've been pretty quiet for 5 years afterall, and Phil has barely commented here at all.

oh, and per Greg's request, i had better clarify something Phil said in his email. the document never says that N'Kai is the name of Nokkar's race. it only says: "Nokkar of the N'Kai is an alien from another planet." N'Kai might not be a species designation, it could be some sort of Order, like the Guardians or the Illuminati.

ok, enough Gargoyles for now for me. i have a Zoology test in a couple hours, and i'm so not prepared. later guys.

oh, Greg B> i'll respond to your email later when i have time...
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 8:58:27 am EST from 24.182.146.1

well, i just glanced through the version in the Ask Greg archives, and throughout most of it, Greg has omitted sentences (or re-worded them) from how they appear in my prize. in some spots, however, whole paragraphs are missing. besides the run-down on the 12 existing Clans, the biggest chunk deals with what Earth is like circa 2198, basically, as Greg labels it, the Setting.
Theres also a sales pitch for the series at the very end.
In the parts where Greg descibes the various characters, the prize version gives more detail into them then does the contest version.
to put it into perspective, the contest version of the document would probably come out to 5-7 pages, the prize version is 13 pages.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 8:42:39 am EST from 24.182.146.1

uh oh... i'm beginning to think i've said too much. i once asked Greg how much i was allowed to reveal from the prize and he said (more or less) that he wouldn't have given me the prize if he absolutly didn't want the info revealed to us, but he did tell me not to just copy and paste the thing for everyone to see.

as for what else is in it, well, first off, its hard for me to remember what is extra and what is in the copy seen here in Ask Greg. i've read my version many more times, so the info in it doesn't stand out to me much anymore. what i think is the biggest extra chunk is a rundown of each of the existing Clans in 2198, about a paragraph about each. if you'll remember, it was from Phil and i that we learned the Xanadu Clan protects the GargBeasts from extinction, the Loch Ness gargs are "nearly amphibious", and the Pukhan Clan is concerned with protecting justice.
theres lots of other Clan info in there too, which is a lot of fun.
i'd have to go over the document as we saw it here to figure what else has been added, or rather, what Greg took out for the contest version.

oh yeah, and in it Greg says what Titania whispers to Fox, its pretty cool.
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 8:05:51 am EST from 24.182.146.1

Dragomir: Demona's story is more complicated than you make it out to be. You're forgetting that she played a part in helping to bring about that slaughter. I wouldn't call her a black-and-white villain, but I wouldn't call her pure, either.

Also, I think if you haven't already, you should tape "Vows" the next time it's on ToonDisney (which will be in a few weeks), and pay close attention to the ending. The intended symbolism is much clearer than the ending to the episode on the DVD. Whatever romance that had existed between Demona and Goliath is over now.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Space is what I need, what I feed on...
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 7:25:20 am EST from 69.174.3.196

Wow, I was afriad I'de this might happen, but ddidn't think so many people would react this way (the angry villagers, lol). I'm sorry again if I upset you guys with my comments, I've just never been personally fond of Elisa and was majorly pissed when the series ended without Demona redeeming herself or at least making peace with the clan (or causing the end of the world, lol). I mean, COME ON! Demona was the most important villain on the show, more so than Thanatos, because she set off the events leading to most of the major conflicts the others faced on the show. No, wait, its not fair to call Demona a villain, I'de be bitter and angry too if all my family and friends had been slaughtered (and my mate ran off with some hussy shortly after being revived, lol, that was messed up). No one here can judeg what they may or may not do in the face of such a tradgedy, it would bring out the worst in most people. sorry, got off topic, anywho, I DID NOT intend to insult the creators of the show, i love the series and wished it hadn't ended (look forward to the new comic continuing where Hunter's Moon left off). Furthermore, we can't expect every idea cooked up by Greg to make it to final production. If the series ever did continue, I doubt that Greg would be able to do all his spin-offs unless the show became a massive success. Though I seriously hope to see some of his forgotten and unused stories in the new comic, I especially hope to see Demona and Angela get closer and establish a better relationship (maybe even convince Demona to lay off humaity for a while, which i bet she would if it meant she could be with her daughter). I also think it would be interesting if a love triangle began between the redeemed Demona, Goliath, and Elisa (ooh, the chaos that would ensue! Goliath you lucky garg you!) One last time, sorry if i stepped on anyones toes, i stated my thoughts and i don't regret it. I apologize to the series creator Greg Weisman, without whom there would be no Demona for me to sympathize with. However, i think its rather silly to claim my thoughts bordered on blasphemy, so dude, get over it.
Dragomir
Dragomir
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 6:46:21 am EST from 71.192.76.212

PURPLEGOLDFISH - I never wrote anything about Goliath's death in my Guide to the Gargoyles Universe (that's its proper name, by the way; "Gargoyles Encyclopedia" is an unpublished manuscript by Greg Weisman), and this is the first that I'd heard about it in the context that Matt mentioned. (I knew that he was dead by 2198, but not the circumstances.)

Though it looks as if the United Nations' Gargoyle Protection Act will be a long way off in the future, probably beyond most of the human characters' lifetimes (except for Macbeth and Alex, obviously), I've long cherished a little creativity demon of Castaway watching the news on television, seeing Travis Marshall reporting on the UN's signing the Gargoyle Protection Act, staring at the screen in silent shock and horror, and then snatching up his Quarryhammer and hurling it at the set in fury.

PATRICK - You forgot having a few unfortunate encounters with manure. :)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 6:41:34 am EST from 4.244.212.160

Dragomir,

Not much to add other than what has already been posted.
But honestly, take the time to look through the archives. It not only could give you a sorely needed education on what you obviously do not know. But to read what the creator had to say in his own words about the characters, plots and threads, its fascinating.

To quote our beloved Broadway...
"It's precious magic, when you read them, they take you there."

Words to live by. Read. Read the treasure trove of information that Greg has yielded about this wonderful series. It will help you make informed statements and opinions.

I sincerely hope this helps.

Note I am going to be making regular posts daily.
I hope to get to know all of you very, very soon.
Justin - [justin.lindley@gmail.com]
Justin M. Lindley
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 6:21:32 am EST from 71.98.108.19

"I would really like the gargoyles to discover pants!"

Hudson has. He wears pants and a loincloth. His nether regions are doubly covered.
#
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 3:14:32 am EST from 66.71.80.73

Not everyone can have a happy ending. Nor should every character.

Goliath gets martyred. I was shocked and yet, not at all surprised.

As for TV shows with extablised futures for the characters.... Babylon 5 is another.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 2:33:10 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Well said Jurgan! Nothing more need be said. I don't think that dragonmir has seen the entire series, or at least hasn't seen it in a very long time. The G/E relationship is pretty much my favorite thing about the series.

wardrobe: I would really like the gargoyles to discover pants!
BTW Greg B: Wow, I'm amazed that you remember every wardrobe change of the characters! And I thought I was an obsessed fan ;)

Matt: I actually remember reading that somewhere awhile ago (Goliath's death), maybe in Todd Jensen's encyclopedia...
And thinking of the characters dying of unnatural causes really depresses me. Dunno why. It's so fascinating though, this is the only tv show I know with an established future for the characters.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 2:24:31 am EST from 205.188.117.68

Matt, you had better flee the country before Greg Weisman's henchmen find you. :-P
Leo
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 2:10:47 am EST from 68.107.154.71

Thanks for sharing that Matt... I never knew that.

WHat else is in there?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 12:42:17 am EST from 65.33.202.237

i can totally see Marina S as a chain-smoker, but Jonathon F wearing a toupee caught me a bit off guard. at first i thought it was a joke. if its true, i must say it looks pretty good, i never suspected it.

Greg B> i'm pretty sure that Goliath at least does not die of "old age". i won the Gargoyles: 2198 contest (along with Phil) and our prize was an expanded version of the G:2198 outline we were contested on. in it, it says:

"Despite this, Goliath, the leader of the gargoyles, maintained hope that one day humans and gargoyles would live in peace. And eventually, that day came. Shortly after Goliath's death - and due in no small measure to his great sacrifice - the "Gargoyle Minority Protection Act" was adopted by the United Nations."

this implies that Goliath sacrificed himself for some cause, probably well before he would be old enough to die of "old age". i've asked Greg when the GMPA was signed and he won't say, so we really have no idea when Goliath dies except that it happens sometime between 1997 and 2198, no small span. conceivably though, even if Goliath did die of "old age", he wouldn't likely live much past 2100. so i think we can assume that Goliath sacrifices himself sometime this century, for all thats worth. whether he dies before or after Elisa is anyone's guess. personally, i would find it touching if he died before. hes lived through too many deaths of those close to him. plus, i would like to see Elisa play a major role in the GMPA being signed.
*imagines an old Elisa addressing the United Nations*
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 12:35:37 am EST from 24.182.146.1

Matt> Well, if Goliath and Elisa die of natural causes then yeah, Goliath should outlive her.

Of course, well, they live pretty violent lives. So, who knows.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 12:14:22 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Dragomir: As everyone else has said, most of us aren't the type to flame people over their opinions- I know I'm not- but you are wrong. You can see hints of G/E's romance as early as the third episode, when Goliath takes Elisa in his arms, and Hudson stares at them wryly. Yes, I understand what you're saying about teasing the audience with hints of a relationship and never getting anywhere with it. I agree that that's an aggravating thing to do in a show. For instance, I used to watch the show Ed, but they overdid the main premise of "Will Ed and Carol get together?" Every time they started to make progress in that direction, some stupid plot-generated trick would stop them. Eventually, I just stopped caring about their relationship and quit the show altogether. So, I know what you mean, but I don't think it applies to Gargoyles. It seems clear that you haven't seen the entire series. In the three-part series finale (if you don't count the Goliath Chronicles, which most of us, frankly, don't), "Hunter's Moon," Elisa admits that she has feelings for Goliath, not knowing he can hear her, but says that she can't imagine ever having a relationship with him. However, by the end of the episodes, she tells Goliath to his face that she cares about him, and he says the same thing, and then she jumps up and kisses him, in the picture Spacebabie used. Yes, it took two years, and based on some of the ways they acted together before, I can see what you mean about them seeming like awkward teenagers, but you have to keep in mind that they are different species. Neither of them ever imagined such a weird relationship. If they'd been the same species, I'll bet they'd have made moves towards each other a lot sooner. As is, it took them a long time just to get over the psychological barrier, but eventually, they did. And, while Greg has said there would be more such hurdles, over time, they'd get over them, too. In regards to age: I believe Goliath is 56, or 28 in human years, and Elisa is about 30 (it's late, and I don't feel like digging through Ask Greg for the exact numbers, but those are close). If we assume Elisa lives to 80, then Goliath will be 106 when she dies, which is the equivalent of 53. Yes, that leaves him alone for a while, but not centuries. I'm sure, though, that that issue will be addressed. It was clearly the intention of the creators to have romance between them from day one (well, day three, I suppose), and Greg has said as much.

As for Demona: Honestly, if humans weren't a factor- say, all the gargoyles were seized by the Space-Spawn and moved to an uninhabited planet- I might be able to see Demona rejoining the clan. She is desperately lonely and would like to get to know her daughter. A lot has passed between her and Goliath, and it's probably too much to overcome, but I suppose it would be possible with time. However, that's meaningless speculation. I think Demona might try a live and let live approach with respect to Goliath and the others for Angela's sake, as well as because she wants a relationship with Angela for herself. However, I don't see her giving up her grudge against humanity any time soon. She'll almost certainly make another attempt at massacring humans, and that will inevitably bring her into conflict with Goliath once again. So any attempt at romance between her and Goliath would ultimately be doomed. Sad, but true. (On a related note, does anyone else have a problem with the fact that Gargoyles 2198 pretty much gives away the net changes Demona will experience through the regular Gargoyles series?)

Dragonmir, I understand your feelings, and I can see how you came to them. It makes a little sense if I think of it from your point of view, and certainly you have the right to an opinion. After you finish watching the series, let us know if you still hold it.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2006 12:04:05 am EST from 68.58.253.131

Chameleongirl> Marina Sirtis is a chain smoker too ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 11:45:53 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Patrick > Jonathan Frakes wears a toupee? I feel my world crashing down around me.
Next you're gonna tell me he's fat :D
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 11:44:22 pm EST from 202.87.162.31

whoa dragomir...what you say borders in blasphemy.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and interpretation...but I will have to say that you are wrong when you paste motives on the creators like that. The creators were very creative, talented people, who genuinely cared about the series and did the things they did in it because they thought it was the best thing for the series. They did for the sake of art, not to rake in a ton of cash (and i doubt anyone is a millionnaire because of Gargoyles). Greg Weisman in particular...he's talked about this series quite a bit over the years. There is a lot of info in the archives about Elisa and Goliath's relationship...which contrary to what you think was definitely portrayed as anything BUT the shallow thing you wanna call it. And any romance between Demona and Goliath was very clearly squashed by the end of the second season. Actually it was much earlier than that.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 11:23:14 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

Dragomir> yeah, i'm pretty sure that Goliath and Elisa DID do more than hug. did you happen to see the last episode of the snd season?

also, gargoyles don't live for CENTURIES. Hudson is only 128 years old in 2006. Elisa will age a bit faster than Goliath, but i don't think it'll be such a major deal. i mean in the mid nineties both of them were in their late twenties. by now Elisa would be in her mid thirties, only a few years older than Goliath's equivalent. in 20 years, Elisa will be in her mid-50s, Goliath will be 40ish. i'd have to do the math to be more accurate here, but the point is, the age difference will never be too significant.

it might help you out if you read through the archives here at Ask Greg before you make comments about stuff.

Greg B> are you sure Goliath outlives Elisa?
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 11:23:01 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Character development>I wish for one Highlander reference made by Wolf, preferably about a decapitated body that he knows the name of.
#
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 11:21:09 pm EST from 66.71.80.73

"gargoyles outlive humans by centuries, sad but true"

Gargoyles age at half the rate of humans due to spending half their life in suspended animation (stone sleep). If the average human life expectancy is 80 years, the average gargoyle life expectancy is 2 x 80 = 160 years. The gargoyle could be expected to outlive the human by 160 - 80 = 80 years if they were both born around the same time. 80 years is not "centuries." 80 years isn't even one century, as 80 < 100.

Character development in the comic > I'd like to see Matt Bluestone call someone a "butthead" and say "Now why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?" ;)
Patrick Toman - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Don't be so gullible, McFly!" - Biff Tannen, "Back to the Future"
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 11:18:30 pm EST from 67.38.254.46

Dragomir wrote: "Those two act more like a couple of awkward teenagers than real lovers, and they never, not even once, in the entire series, do anything together more serious than hugging (maybe a peck the cheek, can't remember)"

Uh they did kiss. I'm not using my usual icon to show the scene where they kissed.

Greg B is right. That is whayt makes the series so great. They were able to eventually get over their differences and accept their love.

Character/Wardrobe. I would like to see Matt wear some new outfits once in a while, keep the trenchcoat though. His trench is like Elisa's red jacket. Different colored pants, suit jackets and tie. We got to see him go undercover once, I'd love to see more of that...and what he wore in "Her Brother's Keeper."
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"People are like stars. There are bright ones, and then there are those who are dim."~ Hot Ice Hilda
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 10:57:03 pm EST from 70.185.6.104

Greg Weisman on Goliath and Elisa:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/faq.php?s=faq2#10

Demona and the Gargoyles 2198 outline:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/faq.php?s=gargs2198

And as for Goliath outliving Elisa... well, you know what. Life isn't fair. I'm glad Greg and the rest created very real characters in a very real universe (I don't mean actually real) and stuck by it, instead of resorting to fan service and crowd pleasing.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 10:46:23 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

DRAGOMIR> Greg Weisman (the series creator) did plan for Demona to eventually have an epiphany and find redemption... in the Gargoyles 2198 spin-off.

Goliath and Angela won't live long enough to see it happen. Yeah, it's sad. But it's supposed to be.

And yes, Greg Weisman did plan to get Goliath and Elisa truly involved... yes, it's a slow romance, but you know what, they are different species. And Elisa is a very guarded individual.

Eventually they would have had a commitment ceremony (that's like a wedding), and adopted and raised a child.

Sorry you feel the way you do, but you're wrong. If you want me to cite Greg Weisman's own words, I'll be more than happy to do so.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 10:41:30 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

I'm still not convinced, I can seriously picture a love triangle between Goliath, Demona, and Elisa if and when Demona finally atones and rejoins the clan (which i hope she does in the comic because Angie would be sooo happy!). anyway, I don't doubt that Goliath and Elisa care for eachother, but its not love. Those two act more like a couple of awkward teenagers than real lovers, and they never, not even once, in the entire series, do anything together more serious than hugging (maybe a peck the cheek, can't remember). I'll tell you what their relationship is, good marketing. I don't won't to offend any Goliath & Elisa fans out there, but its pretty obvious that the show's creators never intended to have those two get truly intimate. They would act shy around eachother and hint at romantic interest in eachother, but it was only to keep fans riveted, to see if they ever got really close. I personally hate it when shows do this kind of relationship, the kind in which you are DYING to see one of them make a serious attempt at furthering the relationship but NEVER do it. Also, we also have to remember that the two "lovers" are of separate species, lords knows if gargoyles and humans are equipped to get intimate with eachother physically. Last but not least, i think the two of them know the relationship would never work out because by the time Goliath is in his prime, Elisa will have long since been reduced to a rotting corpse in the ground (gargoyles outlive humans by centuries, sad but true). So thats what i think, please don't flame me online for speaking my mind, okay? (have mercy.....)
Dragomir
Dragomir
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 10:27:08 pm EST from 71.192.76.212

Let's look at the wardobes.

Elisa - Standard look
- standard loom with scarf. Does that count?
- Hospital gown in Deadly Force
- Undercover Museum guard outfit
- Belle costume
- Undercover protection racket busting outfit
- Naked under a blanket (yes, it requires a new character model)
- Sweater in Norway
- Kimonoin Ishimura
- Salli disguise
- Hunter's Moon undercover disguise
- PJs
- Blue dress

Xanatos - Standard black suit, no tie
- Prison uniform
- sweater and coat in Scotland
- Steel Clan armor
- Tuxedo
- Armor under trenchcoat
- Scotland clothing
- Karate Gi
- Hospital gown in the Gathering

Elisa has wider wardrobe than Xanatos does, and no one ever complains about him not changing ;)

ANd while I'm at it.

Fox - Pack outfit
- Prison uniform
- Casual suit and skirt
- Blue evening gown
- Trenchcoat with nothing under it
- Naked and wearing Elisa's Belle skirt
- Casual clothing
- Karate gi
- Very pregnant
- Horrible looking yellow gown when Alex was born

Demona - Her regular outfit
- Police uniform
- Casual wear in France
- Wedding dress
- Future Tense outfit
- Business suit.

Elisa has had a wider wardrobe than ANYONE else on the show.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
But remember parents, the lesson is, don't let your children go out on hunting trips with the Vice President. Because he will shoot them in the face.
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 9:12:07 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

elisa in new clothes>I've done gotten used to elisa in that black shirt in red jacket that it'll be weird to see her in anything else, but they should change the design a little like have her wear baggy jeans once in a while, or change the color of her shirt once in a while, or even the color of her pants. You don't expect us to beleive that she has a closet full of the same clothes.But I can understand the amimators of the show keeping elisa in the same clothes because it'll cost money to putt elisa in different clothes all the time. But in the form of a comic this shouldn't be a major problem. But I would like the see the gargoyles in something different, I mean thailog did it. Our Gargoyles don't have to go to an extreme like thailog in design,but a change once in awhile would be nice.
kjay - [tigonesskay@yahoo.com]
just wondering
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 9:02:13 pm EST from 24.45.58.246

wait a sec...

if Demona met Puck centuries ago and then Owen introduced Demona to Xanatos... can Owen/Puck do that? if Demona hadn't met him AS Owen, how could Owen introduce them? that would break the Owen/Puck rules, wouldn't it?
matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer." - Douglas Adams
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 9:00:35 pm EST from 24.182.146.1

Ya it's very easy for less discerning fans to think that Oberon is actually the father of all the whole race. And I don't particularly like everyone calling them fay when they are never called that in the show. Personally I liked the other name used for them in the show...the Third Race. In my mind I always referred to them that way. I like the Oberon's Children name but it can get confusing.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 8:20:05 pm EST from 71.57.178.10

This is why Greg's regretted calling "Oberon's Children" by that name; too many people keep on getting confused by it and taking it literally.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 8:01:56 pm EST from 4.244.214.106

The only style changes I'd be okay with thus far are...

New wardrobe for Elisa. Make her seem more natural. She's not a super hero. She doesn't have a super hero costume, her red jacket is kinda her signature, but she's a regular person. She should dress differently now and then. I know the one promo piece had her wearing a tiger striped dress, that was cool. Its nice to throw something new in. But I think Xanatos has changed clothes more time then Elisa in the course of the series, LOL

I know there will be design changes. Pick up any comic, read it for a few months, you will will notice when artists change hands. You will see things as slight as how thick lines are to bigger things like how the hair is styled. It's inevitable. Artists are not carbon copies of eachother. Frank Paur's work was masterpiece, but that doesn't mean the comic is "ruined" with new artists and different styles. So long as the general look and shape of the character remain the same, I'm happy. If they turn them all chibi, Siren will be angry...but still buy the comic to support Gargoyles...painfully though.

But that's how I look at this. I hope others do too. I hope everyone is prepared that they may be a little shocked if there are some design changes, even major ones and not be turned off. With Greg at the helm, you know the story writing will be top rate and on the mark. And from some of the art thus far, it all looks good to top rate. I "PATIENTLY" await its arrival, but I am prepared to see something different. And it doesn't scare me.
Siren
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2006 7:49:28 pm EST from 65.33.112.205

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