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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending March 20, 2006

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Wow. So many who like the Ewoks... They are a great idea, and the look I loved. Yes, cute and cuddly, but dang they also were CREEPY with the blank stare and tiny mouths. I luv 'em anywayz.

On the comic, of course I will support it. Greg WROTE it! What do I care what it looks like? Siryn is SO so right to remind us of who we are and what we did. We aren't just gargoyle fans. We ARE Gargoyles! Watch the movie "V for Vendetta" and see what us Fan-atics can do. The power of word, of idea, and of individuals. So, yes, we are Gargoyles. We are the people who live in our houses, live our everyday lives, but we are also gliding in the night. We are the impetus in a writer's hand. And we make stuff happen. That's us. Gargoyles. And proud of it!

Jade Griffin
Foooooooodd!!

Four legs goooood, two legs better!
Four legs goooood, two legs better!
Four legs goooood, two legs better!
Four legs goooood, two legs better!
Four legs goooood, two legs better!
Four legs goooood, two legs better!
Four legs goooood, two legs better!
Four legs goooood, two legs better!
Four legs goooood, two legs better!
Four legs goooood, two legs better!
Four legs goooood, two legs better!

Sorry, just couldn't help myself...

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Life's not fair, is it? You see I shall never be king, and you... shall never see the light of another day." -Scar.

Thank you Jen, for saying more eloquently what I was too upset to say.

Everyone in here loves "Gargoyles", and just because some of us are critical doesn't me we don't. We don't get critical on things like this just for the excuse to complain. We do it because we care so much for this property and want it to succeed.

I mean, I will be buying two copies of every issue AND the graphic novels. We are ecstatic about this comic, lackluster art aside.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

Wulff - I hate to say it, but I totally agree with you. Lock, stock and Gargoyle... I agree with you.

Matt - Of course we are thankful that we have DVD's and a comic. That doesn't mean we have to bow down to something we don't like. It NEVER means that. I come in here all the time and notice the lack of praise and sometimes complete apathy towards the Gathering (Which I am very much a part of)... but that is their opinion and won't stop me from putting on the best convention I can.

What would Greg W. say? You would mask honesty to try to make Greg W. happy? I guess I see it the other way around. Even if Greg wasn't a good friend of mine, I'd still rather be HONEST than pretend to like something I don't just to make him feel good. (In fact, I've already discussed this subject with him privately).

Really, I don't think ANY of us are not going to actually BUY and PROMOTE this comic. We will step up and use our dollars to make sure that this comic book sells well enough to finally pay for a REAL artist to take over. :P

Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"I don't know who's the bigger fool, him for going, you for following or me for not leaving you both!" -- Demona

"IT's alive, alive. I always wanted to say that."

I'll make a comic realted poast after the room wipe.

One thing I know we will all agree on is that the stories will be excellent.

Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"People are like stars. There are bright ones, and then there are those who are dim."~ Hot Ice Hilda

Patrick-- Good point.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

I suppose some people will eat just about anything when they're starving and say it's the best thing they've ever tasted.

96 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little to no influence on society." - Mark Twain

... Lately, some of the populus of this CR are starting to remind me of the unquestioning, ever-bleating sheep in "Animal Farm."
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

So does anybody know just why Station 8 went down for most of the day? (Though I'm glad that it's back up again.)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Sorry for the double post, but I just needed to mention that sarcasm is always called for. A world without sarcasm would be like a world without lawyers, only suckier.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]

I too am relieved Station 8 is working again. For a while, I was worried that Tom Cruise had read Patrick's little scientology quip, and gotten the site shut down.

Matt: As I said, the main thing I care about is that we're finally getting new stories from Greg, the third season of Gargoyles the way it should have been done in the first place. As long as the Gargoyles aren't stick figures, I'm happy. It still looks better than Marvel's art, although I wouldn't mind seeing Demona in that little leopard-skin number again. Rowf!

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Life's not fair, is it? You see I shall never be king, and you... shall never see the light of another day." -Scar.

*stands beside Dragomir yelling "GARGOYLES FOREVER!"*


And hey, I'm pysched the Comment Room is working again!

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Well, it looks like Station 8 is working again
Leo

I agree with you Matt, I'm sure the comic will be a blast, regardless of what minor changes have been mde to it. Oh yeah, sarcasm concerning my love for the characters Demona and Thailog noted, and totally uncalled for. Have a good day man, I'm sure everything will work out amongst the fans, GARGOYLES FOREVER!!!
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants

AMEN MATT!

On another note, we all have our rights to our own opinions but can't we just be thankful for what we got? Thousands of other shows can cancelled and never see the light of day again. They don't get conventions, cult followings with 100s of webpages even after over 10 years on hiatus, and many don't ever make it to DVD as of yet.

We are so god damn lucky people!!!
We have 2 DVD sets!
We have a yearly traveling convention....a convention that the creators and actors actually GO TO every year!!!!
We have creators and actors who are genuinly interested in what WE, as the lowly fans, say!! Hell, even Keith David came here at least once!
We have Ask Greg! How many show creators allow themselves to take time out when they could be reading a book, spending time with the family, or writing the next big thing, and instead come here to ANSWER OUR questions?!?!
How many TV shows get a second chance after being canned with something like comics books?

Look, I know Disney holds back on us....but you know what, they GAVE us the 2 DVD sets so far. They gave us this comic book! And all you can do is complain about it? Is it all perfect? No. I'm just afraid all this negativity will can any more chances for Gargoyles. TGC was horrible, yes, but maybe if we just sucked it up and sat through it more often, the rating would have been better, Greg would have been invited back, and then the 4th season got on the right track. MAYBE. But why kill the comic now? We are SO close! We WON people. The FANS WON! We got our series back, in comic form. Written by GREG WEISMAN himself. At this point, I'd hate to see it, but hell, I'd read it because Greg wrote it...if they drew Chibi Goliaths. I'd buy it. Because its not pretty pictures that come first, its the substance of the story.

I can just see Disney execs reading the moaning now and thinking, "Those fans can never be appeased...F*** em!" and trashing it all.
Have your opinions AND state them, but the trash talking is a bit much.

Siren
Click my name for my newest Gargoyles music video! Brooklyn/Maggie/Talon

Hi, first time commenting, long time reader. After reading the comments on the comic, I just couldn't stay quiet. Hopefully no one will be offended by my opinions.

Personally, I liked the preview that I saw. If there was anything that I didn't enjoy, it was that it was so short. June can't come soon enough for me. I know the art seems "different". Big deal. When I saw Gargoyle comics in Disney Adventures they didn't exactly make me think "here's talent". I like these drawings a little better. At least they look like the characters a little more so, without making you wonder if you're reading the wrong thing. And more importantly, the dialog so far is very true to character. Art is only one part. Story is very important. Greg W.is behind this. He's very involved with this and I'm confident that he'll make this work.

I do believe that we have a right to voice our opinions and concerns, but if all we do is complain, I think it'll end up defeating the purpose. We need to be a little more positive about these things. Besides, the comic hasn't even offically been released. Who's to say that it's not good? Or that within a few issues the art won't improve? Change is constant, even among us artists. (I should know, I do a lot of sketching) I read a lot of manga and I see the art evolve all the time. It's the ones that look good that have poor stories that I worry more about.

I've been a fan since the beginning and I'm excited about this. With any luck, we'll soon see S2v2 on the way. At least that's what I keep praying for. But for now, I'm just happy that we'll finally get to see what happens next in Gargoyles.

DreamEmpress - [dreamempress80@hotmail.com]

Correction: LORDIE what is it with me and typos, today?

And I meant to say, "Good WRITING and good covers alone cannot cary a comic if the interior art is severely lacking"

Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

Matt-- **Sigh** Just because some of us seriously dislike the interior art and feel compelled to say as much, that DOES NOT MEAN we do not support the comic. I, personally, will be picking up TWO copies of every issue... one for me, and one for my mate. Believe me, I am GLAD that the book is happening. I'm glad we're on the TENTH annual Gathering, and that we've got TWO DVDs out. I hope we'll see a third and (for us completionist freaks) fourth DVD. I hope we'll get some good bids for Gathering 2007 so that there WILL BE an eleventh annual Gathering of the Gargoyles (so far, we have NONE... not even rumours of bids, to my knowledge).

But being supportive doesn't mean holding our tongues when we see something that we don't like. Granted, a lot of us--myself ESPECIALLY included--should be much more constructive in our criticism. And if bad work doesn't GET constructive criticism, then it's going to STAY bad, because the people doing it are going to continue unaware that what they're doing is sub-par. And Hedgecock's pencils *are* sub-par. The way I see it, those uf us who are critical are critical BECAUSE we want this to succeed. Good art and good covers alone cannot cary a comic if the interior art is severely lacking--and Hedgecock's work is lacking. I think it would be more of a detriment to laud it for something it isn't. If the book is going to be successful OUTSIDE of our small fandom that's been anxiously awaiting it, it's got to hook and draw in and--most importantly--HOLD new readers... many of which have probably never even HEARD of Gargoyles before picking the book up off the shelf. I don't think the work we've seen from Hedgecock is going to do that, and THAT scares me.

Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

AMEN matt, thank you very much for that. I totally agree.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O

Gargoyles DVDs have been coming out for a couple years.

This year's Gathering is probably going to be the biggest yet, with a huge guest list.

In a few months the comic book will come out. For the first time in a decade we will have canon Gargoyles stories coming at us with Greg Weisman at the helm.

And yet...
It's dissapointing to ME to watch a large chunk of the fandom decide that NOW is the time to become a bunch of pessimistic whiners. It's dissapointing to me that fans will come into this room only to complain. It's dissapointing to me that these same fans have never even said a single word of praise or thankfulness that we even HAVE the Gathering and the DVDs and the comic. It's dissapointing to me that too many fans are being so quick to decide the doom and gloom of Gargoyles is upon us, even though we havn't had it so good since 1996. It's dissapointing to me that we have been working and hoping so much for new canon stories all these years and when we finally get that all people seem to do is judge the comic.

A couple weeks ago I made a post about how proud I am of this fandom. I'm beginning to think I was wrong to be proud. Too many of you feel that being critical and superior and pessimistic and rude is the way to react to things as they are, and I totally disagree.

Do we have to like everything about the new comic? No, of course not. But a true fan would support it. A true fan would praise it as much or more than they point out its flaws. A true fan would look past those flaws and see what this all really means.

Greg W. often lurks in this room. It wouldn't surprise me if he has been reading the posts of this week. It makes me sick to think of how he might feel.

Sorry for the rant. I'm tired. But seriously, for those of you who have been so negative about the comic thus far (and geeez, it's not even out yet!) please remember how lucky we are to have the comic. Even if the penciling is bad, even if the balloons are in the wrong spots, even if Hudson is SLIGHTLY greener than we are used to, SO WHAT? Get over the things you think are flaws and APPRECIATE what we will have come June. Remember what Xanatos said? "Never look a gift gargoyle in the mouth."

*Gets off soapbox and quietly leaves the Comment Room*

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

AMEN, Wulff... Amen on EVERY point. You've put words to EXACTLY why I'm also sorely disappointed in the interior art.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

Just saw the preview art for the comic... I have to say, I'm SO disappointed. This property really deserves better. This is just fan art.

The pencils - very weak. The characters are not on model with the animated series designs, or even with each other from panel to panel. For example you've got 2 shots of Bluestone on page 2. The shape of his jaw, nose, ears, hair, and the way his jacket sits are all quite different between the two shots.
Scene layouts are quite dull.

Also the pencils are so thick & loose, and any fine details are totally absent. My guess is that the artist has drawn these pages close to the actual print size( approx 7.5 x 10), rather than the standard size of 11x17 are which comic are is standardly drawn. This penciller is definitely not ready for the big leagues.

Inks - there are none. While not all comic art needs inks, this book certainly can use all the help it can get. If the artist cannot drawn tight lines, at least get an inker to clean up his work.

Colours - again quite weak. Very amateur. Just about everyone's colours are way off model. Lexington is almost fluorescent...Bronx too. And why the heck is Hudson so green?
There's not life to these colours. Everything is mushy and dull. Why they didn't go for a cel-cut style, with painted backgrounds I have no idea. Spend 10 minutes on deviantart and you'll find a dozen high school students who can do a better job.

Lettering - the leterrer could stand to go over some of the basics. Balloon tails should really target the center of the balloon. A lot of the tails are also unneccesarily long, and some placements are intrusive.

I do understand that SLG is a small publisher, and doesn't often even publish colour comics. Perhaps this art team is all they could afford. But still, they are SO many great skilled artists out there who are hard up for work, it shouldn't have been that hard to get some artists of at least moderate skill.

Wulff - [webmaster@mattmoylan.com]
-Wulff

Wow. What a revelation. Dragomir is a big fan of Thailog and Demona.

Glad we got that all cleared up. I've been wondering for weeks...

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Psst! Decade-long lurker here. I just reserved my room for the Gathering (my third one) and I'm looking for two roomies to host. Check in on the 23rd and check out on the 26th. Gender doesn't matter. Requirements: non smoking, no heavy partying/drinking, good hygiene, honest, friendly and perfectly able and willing to provide their share of the room cost. Ideally someone who we can geek out with shamelessly. :p You also ought to be okay with sharing a bed with someone (or you can bring a sleeping roll for the floor.)

Gimmie a yell on my email if interested. :)

Rhain - [Ratgirl27@aol.com]
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

Okay Matt, thanks for pointing all of that out, and I'll try not to take the fact that you are not surprised by my like of Jar Jar as a shot at me. I'm aware of what I did, just givng my two cents worth on the subject, but if you think I'm two sided, fine. Seriously do not care. Lets just stop the star wars talk already and go back to gargoyles, i mean no offense either, just want to go back to the original subject of the room. I'de like to see Space Spawn myself, they sound nasty from what we learned from that alien from Easter Island (always thought the name was unoriginal though, I mean, what race what call themselves space spawn?)

In regards to my earlier post about who is the best schemer, I suppose I have to choose Thailog as well. He's the only villain on the show who has ever gotten the better of both Demona and Xanatos, the most prominent baddies on the show. The archmage was sly too, but the weird sisters, while VERY tricky, were only following his lead. Archmage looses points with me for being dumb enough to loose control of his own magic, its not wise to use magic you cannot control without the aid of a talisman that can be so easily removed by, lets say, a badass lavender gargoyle, lol.
I think Demona's a better schemer than Xanatos though, she's the only other villain beside Thailog to ever out wit him. Plus she has hundreds of years of experience under her belt, I've always loved her plans best. I love how she so easily played Goliath and Elisa for saps in the beginning of The Mirror.

Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants

Greg B> Oh, I see. Thanks... Reminds me of the Rainstorm Hudson or whatever, lol.

HoEyes> The Ewoks were pretty savage. Didya notice how that one latches on to Harrison Ford's leg?

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Matt: I agree with Chefelf's Nitpicker's Guiide to Star Wars. The Ewoks had potential, but it would have been nice if they had been more savage.

Battle Beast: I felt that the prequels overutilized the wrong characters, such as Jar Jar, and didn't utilize the most interesting characters (such as Palpatine's old apprentices) well enough. I thought Tyranus could have been much more than what we saw. Christopher Lee is an excellent actor, and it's a pity George Lucas didn't take advantage of that.

<Yoda's explanation of why he had to go to Dagobah was REALLY weak.> No kidding. He fights Palpatine to a stalemate in an evenly matched lightsaber duel, and then decides that he's failed. Here's what I don't get. In the past, Jedi had always stressed the importance of fighting the Sith in pairs. Why not just go to the Senate Hall, take out Palpatine together, then fly to that other planet TOGETHER and stop his apprentice? But the Jedi were never terribly bright to begin with, what with their dumbass prophecy and all.

And that's the end of my Star Wars rantings. Anyone wants to continue discussing it with me, you know the e-mail.

Greg B: Anyone has more talent than George Lucas. It's pathetic that the Clone Wars cartoon was better than the prequels. And please don't remind of the Power Rangers. "Let's see, how can we make this as similar to Voltron as possible, but different enough so we don't get sued?" Speaking of which, I'm amazed they didn't get sued for making the Black Ranger a black guy. By the way, I was chatting with D. Taina recently and found out the original Yellow Ranger is dead. Has been for a while.

Dragomir: Honestly, I think Thailog. He played both Xanatos and Demona. Sometimes I wonder if he's even capable of emotion. The good kind, anyway.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"And you mat ask yourself, am I right or am I wrong? And you may say to yourself, My God! What have I done!" -David Byrne.

Greg: I didn't dislike the Shadows. But I don't think they're as iconic and cool and downright brilliant as, say, Darth Vader. I mean, you see Darth Vader crushing someone's neck from a distance and you just get it. You can pick up a coal scuttle or a can and do the Darth Vader voice (er, not that I'd... anyway, moving on...)... it has that kind of relatability. The Shadows are just really good aliens. They also feel a little bit like substandard Nazgul. They did some cool stuff, but in the end Sheridan ran to their daddy and came back to give them a good stern talking to. It sort of made sense, on an intellectual level anyway, but it didn't feel as satisfying as I'd expected. I thought the Clark stuff was much more consistent -- and consistently brilliant at that. And, yes, the Drakh were wonderful in design and voice and concept. I think B5 is more remarkable for the arc of its murky political stuff on Earth and Centauri Prime than for the big Star Warsy space opera stuff. Or maybe it's just that this is what I enjoy most and so I responded best to those parts of the story.
Ed

MATT> He's talking about Odinized Goliath. It was going to be an action figure.

Thunderstorm Goliath... never got made.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

Sorry for the double post...

I was just reading Greg's ramble on "Temptation" and I saw this sentence:

"The motorcycle is interesting. It was one of three toy driven elements we consciously put into the show. (The others were in "Her Brother's Keeper" and " Eye of the Storm ".)"

I know that Greg is talking about the gargoyle-helicopter thing in "Her Brother's Keeper", but what toy was he refering to from "Eye of the Storm"? Is he talking about something from the video game? I dunno if I'd consider that a toy or not...

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Dragomir> Did you read your post before you submitted it? You say that this is a Gargoyles comment room and you we should focus on that and not on Star Wars. And thats fine, but then half your post turns out to be about Star Wars. No offense, but you are being a bit two-sided, don't you think? And, again, no offense, but why am I not surprised you liked Jar Jar? And hey, I have never seen anyone say Jar Jar sucked and 3PO was great. Most people hate 3PO in the prequels too. I certainly do. I like 3PO in the original trilogy, but they made him into a total CGI not-funny comedy character, just like Jar Jar.

People should leave the Ewoks alone. Prequel 3PO and JarJar are a million times more of a disaster for Star Wars than the Ewoks ever were.

I'm just glad all the movies seem to be done. Lucas shouldn't be allowed to destroy the Star Wars Universe anymore than he already has. It's really sad, but I wish the prequels would never have been made. Episodes IV-VI were a lot better ten years ago then they are today, and I'm not just refering to the changes Lucas made, but to how the prequels f*cked the whole series. Ironically, Lucas was the worst thing to happen to Star Wars.

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

I wonder, if Greg's able to bring out a comic book series based on his "Gargoyles 2198" plans (assuming that the Gargoyles comic does well enough to justify that economically - let us hope that it does so), how long it'll be before we're engaged in lively discussions here over "Who's the toughest: the Galactic Empire, the Shadows, or the Space-Spawn?" :)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

An evil dark lord... a galactic war involving dozes of alien races... invisible particles that exist inside us all. But enough about what the scientologists believe. :P

97 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Dad! Tom Cruise won't come out of the closet!" - Stan, "South Park"

ED> You didn't like the Shadows? They were awesome. And their minions, the Drakh were creepy as hell.

But yeah, if we're comparing Fascist regimes, President Clark's administration, and the Psi Corps were much better than the Empire.

And Alfred Bester was better than Darth Vader.

DRAGOMIR> I don't usually go into the whole "who's more powerful than who" discussions, but the Shadows could destroy planets too. And the Shadows had dozens of Planet Killers, as opposed to the Empire's one retarded Deathticle... er, I mean, Death Star. ;)

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

Okay, I don't want to interfere with this Star Wars argument here, but this is supposed to be a Gargoyles comment room right? Not a who sucks more or is better than george Lucas room correct? Can we please get back on track here guys? I'll even offer a garg topic to discuss, who do you think is the most skilled schemer/manipulator of the series? Demona, Thailog, Xanatos, Archmage, Weird Sisters, or Fox?

Oh yeah, I don't want to fan the flames here, but I personally enjoyed the Star Wars prequals and loved seeing how all the characters started out, especially Anakin and Obi Wan. I personally thought Anakin's slow but steady descent into the Dark Side was well done, but whatever, not worth arguing about. Oh yeah, I've heard of Babylon 5, but have not seen enough episodes to decide whether I like it or not, though I doubt the Shadows are worse than the Empire and Darth Vader, those guys could destroy whole planets! P.S. I liked Jar Jar, he was funny as hell and I don't get why so many people seem to hate him, he's no less accident prone or whiny than C3P0, who can't even seem to keep his head on.

Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants

The Shadows aren't better than the Empire. But President Clark's administration definitely is.
Ed

I JUST POSTED THAT. Wow.

Well Greg, I like Star Wars, but I have to admit that I've never seen Bab 5, so I can't comment on it. I will watch it one of these days, though, and when i do, I will ramble again.

But you are right: Power ranger SUCKED. (I'm so ashamed that I watched it...)

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

I JUST POSTED THAT. Wow.

Well Greg, I like Star Wars, but I have to admit that I've never seen Bab 5, so I can't comment on it. I will watch it one of these days, though, and when i do, I will ramble again.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

BATTLE BEAST> "Star Wars has acheived what those other Sci-fi's want to, but never will. (Except Star Trek.)"

Made a shit load of money. Yes. Still doesn't make it anything but trash.

Power Rangers made a shit load of money and made a huge cultural impact for a time... did that make it anything but garbage? No.

This past couple of months, I re-watched all five seasons of "Babylon 5" on DVD for the first time in several years. And it was while doing that, that I finally got over Star Wars. Yes, it didn't have a billion dollar budget. But it had a great story, awesome characters that grew and changed, a real message to it... all in all, aliens with well rounded and developed histories and cultures, a great single story told over the course of five seasons.

And the Shadows are better antagonists than the Empire could ever be.

Let's try an SAT analogy for a second:

Babylon 5 is to Star Wars what Gargoyles is to Power Rangers.

J. Michael Straczynski has more talent in his pinky toe than George Lucas has in his whole body.

There, I said it.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

BATTLE BEAST> "Star Wars has acheived what those other Sci-fi's want to, but never will. (Except Star Trek.)"

Made a shit load of money. Yes. Still doesn't make it anything but trash.

Power Rangers made a shit load of money and made a huge cultural impact for a time... did that make it anything but garbage? No.

This past couple of months, I re-watched all five seasons of "Babylon 5" on DVD for the first time in several years. And it was while doing that, that I finally got over Star Wars. Yes, it didn't have a billion dollar budget. But it had a great story, awesome characters that grew and changed, a real message to it... all in all, aliens with well rounded and developed histories and cultures, a great single story told over the course of five seasons.

And the Shadows are better antagonists than the Empire could ever be.

Let's try an SAT analogy for a second:

Babylon 5 is to Star Wars what Gargoyles is to Power Rangers.

J. Michael Straczynski has more talent in his pinky toe than George Lucas has in his whole body.

There, I said it.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

Sorry for the double post, but please don't mind my spelling... I forgot to spell check... sorry!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

(Sorry)

Star Wars:

"Every time Luke started to get angry and vengeful. Every time he started to turn to the dark side of the force, the big-mouth Emperor would LITERALLY rub his hands together like Snidely Whiplash and say: "That's it, Luke. Turn to the dark side of the force!" At which point, Luke would do a mental double take and remind himself -- visually, on camera -- that turning to the dark side was a bad idea. And it continued like that ad nauseum.">>>

I don't see it that way. I see it as Luke realising he's turning, but the Emperor keeps pushing him. He stops, thinks, ans is prevoked again, this time going a little closer to the dark side, and eventually he'll jump into the dark side and never look back.

"I absolutely despise the changes George Lucas made on the Special Edition (and even more changes on the DVD)"

I don't wind the changes; the one BIG change in Star Wars was a scene Lucas always wanted in the final film but could never finalize (Money, technology, Etc.) and it ties the first and last films together nicely. I don't mind that one.

More of the Wampa? Yah, that was a nice addition. A little more color on Cloud City? that was OK, too.

Changing the Emperor's message in ESB??? That was too much. Now you're changing the seceond film to be more like the third and fourth. That's wrong. You have to fit the prequals aroud what you've already stated in the first three. Nor the other way around.

Changing the Ghost to look like Hayden? That's bad. I mean, the orrigianl ghost was, I thought, what Hayden would look like as an old man Jedi. That's how Darth Vader Aged. And it even looks like the guy in the suit when his helmit is removed.

The new, ever-changing endings with Naboo, Coruscant, Tatooine, etc??? I like the original song & dance ("Awkee tawkee onnga") or however it went, with those muppet Ewoks.

And the Ewoks. I always liked them. Sure they're cute and cuddly, But *Something* in the universe has to be, right? I mean, is everything in the world straight-lined, hard-nosed and butt-ugly? No, I don't thinks so. But I also don't think there is a world where castrated sunshine song and dance cult members a la Bubble Boy prance around worshipping their all-mighty leader.

And a lot of them die, so that should appease some of the fans, right?

"The orrigianls script involved simultaneous attacks against the Death Star at Endor, Leia leading a team of Rebels to liberate Kashyyk (the home planet of the Wookies), and Han leading another attack on Coruscant. Han was also set to die in the original script."

This would have been cool, and I'll agree a better plot.

Episode 1: I liked it, and I thought the Ben-Hur Pod race was really cool. The first time. Now I think it could have been made less the focus of the film.

Anakin's father: his mom should have been used as a slaved an knocked up by some lonely space pilot. (Would have made better sense than she just "gave birth.")

Jar jar: I don't hate him, but I don't care for him either. And I don't think he's as bad as everyone make him out to be, but I WOULD have toned him down a bit. Like that scene where he sticks his head in the lasers and it "goes numb for hours." (As soon as Anakin said that I groaned; I knew it would happen. I just knew.)

The Light-sabre battles were cool, but they could have been longer... I wanted to see more 2 on 1 with Darth Maul, and I don't think he should have died. I really didn't care for Christopher Lee's Darth Tyranus.

Episode two had its good moments and its bad; that Jedi battle at the end was massive and worked well, but I wanted to see more of the Yoda battle. (By the By, NEVER watch Episode two in full-screen, as they chop off yoda and all you see is his arm in the final battle!)

The love scenes in Episode II were forced; they were as bad as a Harlequin Romance Novel and about as sexy as Barney Gumble in a two piece.

"It turns out Anakin was just a whiny little bitch who was upset over the fact that the Jedi Council wouldn't let him take the car out on Saturday night."

That and he wanted his mommy.

Episode III: I like the whole movie from start to finish. I thought it was really well done, except for a few minor things.

There was no need for that droid leader; that felt taked on and pointless.

Yoda's explanation of why he had to go to Degobah was REALLY weak. Exile? No, it's because you wanted to hide from Vader and not die. Weak.

And Yoda's falling cloak. Is THAT why the Jedi bodies dissappear??? It's never explained.

"As you pointed out, [Palpatine] became a cackling buffoon. He didn't even need to be scarred. I always felt he looked the way he did in "Jedi" because a) About twenty-four or twenty-five years had passed, and b) He's wielding an ungodly amount of power, which is bound to take a heavy physical toll on the body. But Lucas won't be happy until all the mystique is destroyed (by the way, if you're a Force-user, it's because you have a parasite living in your bloodstream).

EXACTLY.

THE FIANL BATTLE... I thought is was slowed, the momentum, by always cutting to OTHER action like Lucas always does. I thought he should have had the two fighting sabre on sabre for like ten minutes, not jumping about from rock to tower, JUST FIGHTING. And not cutting to other action when all we care about is them two.

"Star Wars I have since come to the conclusion is trash Science Fiction which only was lucky enough to hit the world at the right time."

Star Wars has acheived what those other Sci-fi's want to, but never will. (Except Star Trek.)

Now, you may say I'm being a hypocrit by vlasting the prequals to death while telling you not to condem the Comic. But the Movies have been out for a while now, and everyone else is doing it, so... (this, by the by, is NOT a good moral.)

***FEW***

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Ok. I know I'm very alone in this aspect, but I love the Ewoks. I think they were a great idea. A small primitive people that helps the Rebels bring down the Empire. The problems came in the execution (of the idea, I mean.)

I think it is apparent to everyone that the Stromtroopers were being taken out way way too easily by the Ewoks. And frankly, it takes away from how cool the Ewoks could've been. The other problem in execution is that Lucas decided to make them into a commercial landmine by marketing them AS teddy-bears. I get furious at Lucas when he gets upset at people for calling the Ewoks teddy bears because he is the one who made them that way!

I like the Ewoks because they are a spiritual people. Connected to their traditions and to their environment. Living off the land. At one with their souls and the forest around them. Physically weak perhaps, but with powerful strengths, their bravery, their ingenuity, their temawork and numbers. These are the things they should've used to bring down the Stormtroopers. Instead we get them hitting them on the heads with rocks. Its sad. The best Ewok moments were when they were FAILING against the Empire. Their glider-dropped rocks did nothing, trying to trip the Walker did nothing, an Ewok dies while running from the enemy. Lucas should've continued on with that until the Ewoks realized what their strengths were and started fighting using the forest. They did this to some extent, but it was intermixed with hitting the Stormtroopers on their helmets with rocks and that killed it. It would've been fantastic if they started using their rope net traps to string up the troopers, or even called on native forest beasts to take them out!

So, I know most people hate the Ewoks, but keep in mind that they, like SO MUCH in the Star Wars Universe, had some great potential and it was ruined by bad writing and silly directing.

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Star Wars I have since come to the conclusion is trash Science Fiction which only was lucky enough to hit the world at the right time.

If anyone wants to watch some good sci-fi, I'd recommend J. Michael Straczynski's "Babylon 5", Joss Whedon's "Firefly" and "Serenity", the new Battlestar Galactica. I heard good things about "Farscape".

"Babylon 5" does a struggle against dark forces, and a rebellion against a totalitarian regime much, much, much better than George Lucas ever could.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

Battle Beast: I was up in the air on "Return of the Jedi." I absolutely despise the changes George Lucas made on the Special Edition (and even more changes on the DVD), but I thought that the original, overall, was very good. For me, the most engaging parts of the movie were the space battle and the confrontation between Luke and his father. I actually was never bothered by Ian McDarmid's performance as the Emperor. His manipulations were definitely better conceived than they were in the prequels. Like most people, the thing I have trouble with are the Ewoks. The original script for Jedi was much cooler. It involved simultaneous attacks against the Death Star at Endor, Leia leading a team of Rebels to liberate Kashyyk (the home planet of the Wookies), and Han leading another attack on Coruscant. Han was also set to die in the original script (which was something Harrison Ford wanted to have happen). But of course, when George Lucas saw what Larry Kasdan had written, he didn't like it, and so we got the frickin' Ewoks.

Matt: Yeah, it definitely would have helped had George Lucas done a better job of establishing Anakin's darker half in the first two movies. But sadly, I feel that got pushed to the side in favor of that whole Separatist hogwash that Lucas just pulled right out of a high school freshman's history book. Not only that, but Obi Wan's conversation with Luke in "Jedi" left me with the impression that Obi Wan had somehow contributed to Anakin's downfall (the way Alec Guinness had delivered the lines "I thought I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong."). But it turns out Anakin was just a whiny little bitch who was upset over the fact that the Jedi Council wouldn't let him take the car out on Saturday night (or that's what it felt like, anyway). And yeah. Any rational person could have seen that Palpatine was just using crap he pulled out of an elementary level textbook on how to manipulate people. But visually, there were some wonderful moments in Episode III. The massacre in the temple was well-done, as well as the "birth scene" where Vader went into the armor (which was splendid until Lucas ruined it with that horrible Boris Karloff moment). But my major problem with Lucas is that he seems to be setting out to destroy the same sense of imagination that made the original trilogy enjoyable. He needed to explain every last goddamn thing to us. This got really infuriating in Episode III. I thought Ian McDarmid was the best actor in the prequels, until he was scarred by his own lightning. Then, as you pointed out, he became a cackling buffoon. He didn't even need to be scarred. I always felt he looked the way he did in "Jedi" because a) About twenty-four or twenty-five years had passed, and b) He's wielding an ungodly amount of power, which is bound to take a heavy physical toll on the body. But Lucas won't be happy until all the mystique is destroyed (by the way, if you're a Force-user, it's because you have a parasite living in your bloodstream).

And it looks like now I have to beg the CR's pardon. As I said, once I get started about George Lucas... I have my reasons, but no excuse. Not here.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Be well, and hate George Lucas!" -Paid for by the foundation that thinks George Lucas is a dick.

BATTLE BEAST> Greg Weisman summedup what was wrong with Return of the Jedi better than I could this early in the day. Hey, I just woke up, sue me!

"Return of the Jedi was awful, in my opinion. The promise of the first picture, the depth of the second... All dropped for cutesy revelations, cutesy unbelievable action... and worst of all, an Emperor who was too stupid to win. As if the Ewoks weren't bad enough, the Emperor was embarrassing. HE LITERALLY lost the thing single-handedly. Every time Luke started to get angry and vengeful. Every time he started to turn to the dark side of the force, the big-mouth Emperor would LITERALLY rub his hands together like Snidely Whiplash and say: "That's it, Luke. Turn to the dark side of the force!" At which point, Luke would do a mental double take and remind himself -- visually, on camera -- that turning to the dark side was a bad idea. And it continued like that ad nauseum. Man, I was going NUTS. It was so disappointing. A great series with an awful ending. It broke my heart. The hope was that this was only the middle three of nine episodes. So if the other eight were great (and two were already great) then I could forgive one clunker."

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

*Spen walks in, wearing a green sweatshirt, green slacks, a green cap with a shamrock, a shamrock earring, (rather odd considering my ears aren't pirced, but that's beside the point) and a green jacket with a pin reading "Patrick was a saint, I ain't" on it.*

Happy St. Patrick's day everyone! (Yes, I know I'm late. Sue me.)

Possibility of no Gathering '07 : Hey, Ezmeralda, if you're still around, what ever happened to your idea of having the Gathering in St. Paul? I still probably won't be able to afford to go, but that's no different from any other year.

Jennifer : "10 is a good number to end on" I think that 100 is a better number to end on myself.

Dragomir : "why would Yama be banished?" I seem to recall it was self-exile.

Greg B. : "there are a lot of people who always say "maybe, next year. Maybe, next year". Every year." In my case, that's more wishful thinking. I know that unless someone actually hires me for a second job, there is no way I can afford to go. Heck, even if I could afford it, I probably wouldn't be able to convince my boss to give me any vacation time. (I haven't had a vacation in eleven years. And that wasn't really a vacation, that was just not having a job for a few weeks while I was moving.)

*looks up* this has definatly been my longest post here. Maybe I should post more often late at night; I usually type more.

Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus

What was wtong with Return of the Jedi?
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Yeah, Greg Weisman hated Return of the Jedi... I don't like it much either.

ANd I agree with Greg completely that the Emperor in Jedi was a complete and utter embarassment in Jedi.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

HoEyes> For me, the worst thing about the Star Wars prequels (and its hard to narrow it down to one thing) was Anakin's turning in Ep. III. It was totally unbelievable. I didn't buy it, and neither did anyone in the theater with me when I saw it for the first time. It was hardly tragic and some things made it almost comic, such as Palpatine's incessant snarling.

Palpatine: (snarling) You are mine! Kill all your friends to save your wife!
Anakin: Ummm, yeah, ok, I guess that makes sense.
Palpatine: (visably orgasmic with glee) Yeeeesssssss.
Anakin: So, ummm, I guess I'll be evil now. (shrugs) Do I get a new name or something?
Palpatine: (Forehead swells with glee) Yeeeeessssssss.
Anakin: I love you Senator Palpatine. You are always so rational. You are like a father to me, of course so is Obi-Wan. But I hate him, right?
Palpatine: Yeeeeeesssss.
Anakin: Cool. So, I guess I'll go kill all those little kids now. Boy, this is swell. I guess my life is just gonna get better from this point on, huh?
Palpatine: (with ludicrous expression and tone) NOOOOO. NOOOOOOOO.
Anakin: Oh. Okay. Geee. Life sure is full of tough decisions. I wish I was R2. I'm sure he'd have ANOTHER handy gizmo to get past this conflict. He's more powerful than any Jedi. I'm sure he could've saved Padme. (shrugs) Okie dokie, time to go murder a hundred kids to save my wife. Ho-hum. It's the only logical thing to do. You need anything while I'm out, Senator?
Palpatine: Buy me some cigarettes.... 'cause I'm evil!!!!

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Dragomir: The problem is that I, as the viewer, really didn't feel sorry that Anakin was being snubbed by the Council. He was a whiny little bitch before he became a Jedi Knight, and he was a whiny little bitch in Episode III. I won't do into too great detail in a comment room dedicated to Gargoyles. But if you'd like me to send you a more in-depth analysis on what's wrong with the Star Wars prequels, my e-mail is listed (and if there's one thing I love to talk about, it's why I despise George Lucas).

All I'll say here is that in order for tragedy to really work, the audience has to invest emotional stock in the character. The writing in the Star Wars prequels is so terrible, this is not possible. I guess if I had to tie this into Gargoyles somehow, I'd say that Gargoyles actually succeeded at tragedy.

Greg B: Who is this "we" that you speak of? As far as comics go, I've seen a lot worse. I'm just happy to be getting new stories from Greg.

<Actually, Greg said that no one critisized Lucas with what he for the "first three - maybe two" movies.> Ah, I see what he meant now. If I remember a comment I read in ASK GREG correctly, he wasn't too thrilled with "Jedi," was he? And your opinion is not too far from mine. Honestly, the best parts in Episode III were the parts where the story was told by the visuals alone, with no talking.

Matt: Analysis is easy. One of the things that got me back into it is that for an after-school cartoon, it wasn't built like one at all. I think the fact that the storyline was structured to be ongoing helped it immensely. And then, of course, there was the attention to detail not really seen in many Disney Afternoon cartoons.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Be well, and hate George Lucas!" -Paid for by the foundation that thinks George Lucas is a dick.

Todd> "When Molly tears off the price tag from the jacket that she and Rory stole and tosses it into the canal, you can see it float past Rory."
Yeah, I've always noticed that. It was one of those things that just made me so aware of all the little details and small touches that wereput into making the series what it is. Another one is in "The Mirror" when Hudson pulls a sheet off a clothesline to cover the Mirror, you can distinctly hear a clothespin 'ping' off the line and 'clatter' to the ground. I always thought I heard that and it was actually one of the things I specifically watched for on the DVD, turns out it was really there. Amazing the detail in the series.... and amazing how much we have analyzed the series...

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

TODD> Yeah, I posted a few times in that thread. I said pretty much the same thing.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

Sorry for the double post, but:

LORD GARGFAN - Well, there's a fanfic out there called "The Simpgoyles" which is a Simpsons-based parody of "Gargoyles" (the Simpsons as the gargoyles, Montgomery Burns as Xanatos, Groundskeeper Willy as Macbeth, and - no surprise here - Smithers as Owen).

I also remember coming upon an odd little page somewhere (but can't remember its URL - it was a long time ago) that had Avalon sending Goliath, Elisa, Angela, and Bronx to Springfield on the World Tour, but they couldn't find anything that needed doing there, so headed back on the skiff and left - though not before Bronx ate Lisa's cat.

Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

While watching my tape of "The Hound of Ulster" today (and I hope all the more that Gargoyles Season Two Volume Two comes out on DVD after comparing the picture on my old tapes to the picture on the DVDs), I noticed an animation detail that I hadn't spotted before, at the beginning. When Molly tears off the price tag from the jacket that she and Rory stole and tosses it into the canal, you can see it float past Rory.

The Disney forum at Toon Zone now has a bizarre new Gargoyles-related thread: What if Demona and Magneto encountered each other? I've got to admit that that would be a crossover worth seeing (my own suspicion is that they'd enter a temporary alliance since they share the same basic goal - dealing with the humans for persecuting their people - but Demona would wind up turning on Magneto, partly because she'd ultimately see mutants as just another kind of human, partly because she generally has difficulty getting along well with anybody for long).

Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

*Steps up to the microphone after finally having a moment to step into the room. Ignores the pants lying in the corner, and begins to speak.*

Well, at least it's new stories. The art's not exactly my cup-of-tea. The 3D face effect leaves me cold. But the story is starting to turn out like "The Journey" was probably supposed to. June is only three months away.

I've never been to a Gathering. And can't afford to do so. But the minute I can I plan to do so. For those of us that can't go, and still want to support Gargoyles, the best thing to do is to buy ANYTHING that comes out that would help: the comic, the DVDs, heck, even a t-shirt, if they ever come out, may have some impact. I've contacted Disney about information when the DVDs were coming out, hoping to express interest. Email them asking when Season Two, Volume Two will be out. There are so many things that we can do to help.

Whew! Okay, now that I've got that off my chest, I have two questions that popped into my head:

1. Whatever happened to that alleged artwork that was licensed by Disney a year or two ago for clothing purposes that showed some gargs on bikes? Was that all a hoax or is there going to be comic-themed merchandise coming out?

2. Are there any good Simpsons/Gargoyles crossovers? Harvester of Eyes inspired this one.

Lord GargFan
Happy St. Patrick's Day! And Belated Ides of March!

HAPPY ST. PATRICK'S DAY EVERYONE. I'm happy I didn't get pinched this year and a little upset for having all the electricity cut off in my city because of all the rain we're getting, but WHO CARES, IT'S ST. PATRICK'S DAY. X)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog

Happy St. Patrick's Day!

"It seems like a costly affair, both financially and time-wise."

Yes, it is. I won't lie to anyone about that. Like Greg B. already said, it gets to be like having a second full time job with no pay. Being on con staff means having less and less free time as the con approaches.

98 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"They're always after me lucky charms!" - Lucky the Leprechaun

PGFish> Yeah, I don't have health insurance either... and I have less than you do in my bank account and no job until May! I mean, it took me til mid-January to get enough cash together to buy the DVD! Thats one reason I'm looking forward to the comic. It shouldn't be too difficult for myself and many others to afford it. Hopefully, its relative inexpense will encourage more people to buy it.
Anyway, if there is a Gathering next year I'll be there. Or if I'm not I'll have a good excuse (broke or dead).

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Obed> Here's the information you seek.

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/g2007-bids.html

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

just out of curiosity, but how does that whole "bid" process work? I mean, how would a group that might be interested in hosting and assembling a Gathering go about doing it? It seems like a costly affair, both financially and time-wise.
Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O

I understand, and don't worry. I'm not condemning anyone. If you can't afford it, that's a more than legitimate reason.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

Believe me Greg, I understand how much work goes into put together a Gathering. I'm sure everyone appreciates the hard work and dedication some fans (like you) I know I do.

And no offense, but you can afford to go if you're going. I mean I literally Cannot afford to go. I have about a thousand dollars in my banking account right now with no money coming in till who knows when.

And I haven't even professed any real interest in the Gathering till this year. In previous years when it was closer, my interest in the fandom had waned, but it's back in full force now.

I really wish

Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery

PGF> No one is condemning anyone for not being able to afford a trip. That being said, there are a lot of people (not saying you or Matt) who always say "maybe, next year. Maybe, next year". Every year.

I so can't afford it either, but at the same time, I'm going. Hell, I'm on Con Staff this year.

"It would really suck if the Gathering were to stop-How can it stop now- with all new stories in the works??"

Well, I hope some brave souls hook up and put a bid together. It is a lot of work. I've been on staff once before this, I know. But it is rewarding. A real labor of love.

And, as was posted below, it changes staffs every year, that's why the location changes. If it was the same staff every year, it would probably be in the same location every year, like other conventions. But, well, it's a tough and often thankless job, and the burn out is high. It's like a second full time job without a paycheck.

There will be an 11th Gathering if the fandom really wants one. The same small group(s) can't make it happen every year.

Hopefully there are bids in the works, and hopefully they'll be submitted by the end of the month.

I want there to be a next Gathering... believe me.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

umm, no in here is condemning the comic...
Some of us may be critisizing some of the more funky art, but I'm sure all of us are going to be buying it and trying to help spread the word.

It would really suck if the Gathering were to stop-How can it stop now- with all new stories in the works??
I guess we're in the same boat Matt...I can't make it either *sigh* Seriously, I don't even have health insurance right now, so yeah it's not right for people to rub it in our faces if we can't afford to go..

I'm planning on submitting artowrk for the anthology, at least.

Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery

list of unlikely couples:
1) Demona and Zafiro
2) Yama and Angela
3) Gabriel and the Weird Sisters (we know he's a player, lol)
4) Demona and Gabriel
5) Puck and Fox
6) Lex and Dingo
7) Angela and Beth Maza

Everyone> Hey guys, why would Yama be banished? I know he plotted with Taro to move the gargoyles to his theme park, but I thought that he was unaware of Taro's master plan to hold them all captive as theme park attractions. He even believed Taro's lie that children were going to visit the Ishimura Clan for Bushido lessons. I know Yama screwed up big, but its not like he was planning to betray his clan with some major evil scheme, he was decieved too. Besides, didn't he redeem himself and reclaim his honor when he defeated Taro in one on one combat?

Dragomir
gargoyles rule, quarrymen drool!

No one is condemning the comic. We're all very happy that we're getting the comic. We're just concerned about the art. That's all.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

HAPPY ST. PATRICK'S DAY, EVERYONE!!! I'd be watching "The Hound of Ulster," like TOdd, if I had a copy of it.

AREN'T WE BLOWING this all out of proportion? I mean, half of us are condeming the comic before it's even left the starting gate! Give it a chance, and it'll only get better... as many have said... it's not gonna be EXACTLY as everyone thinks it should. Everyone has their own ideas about how it should look, especially, those of you who are artists.

Relax!! It'll get better and it'll grow on you.

AND REMEMBER, Greg might be reading this, and what's he gonna think if half the fandom dislikes it before its started crawling???

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

11111
Anonymous

****Blaise "ZOOMS" into the Room on his wyvern.**** Just a quick one...

COMIC PREVIEW AND INTERVIEW> Okay, I am officially PSYCHED about this!
I can see some peoples' complaints with the art style, but overall I don't really have a problem with it. Okay--maybe Hudson's coloring seems a little off to me in some panels, and the central panel of page 4 could use a little touch-up, but overall the comic looks fine to me. Goliath looks like Goliath, Xanatos looks like Xanatos, etc.. Heck, "Billy & Susan's Mom" looks like "Billy & Susan's Mom!"
And I don't mind if it is an adaptation of "The Journey" because now it'll reflect how it would have appeared onscreen if Greg had possessed the creative control he had in the first two seasons. I didn't know (since I could not attend the Montreal Gathering) that there had been a scene in which some dumbs#@% took potshots at Goliath (sadly, the word bubbles aren't in yet--what was the dialogue like in that scene, anybody?). And I'm sure the scene between Matt and a (recovering) Captain Chavez will show up as well, and we won't see Goliath gliding off on his busted wing at the end.
I'm just wondering if there will be TWO different types of Quarrymen uniforms like there was in the TV episode (Castaway, Banquo and Fleance all wore heavily armored looking variations of the "regular" jumpsuits and cloth hoods, and I kind of liked that distinction).
All in all, though, I'm stoked.

I'll pop by again later on. Until then, farewell. ****Blaise gives his Wyvern the signal to fly on. It flies out through a doorway...but not low enough for Blaise to clear it, too. He is knocked from his saddle (as a result of his face slamming into the archway), but manages to pull himself up and stagger/run after his mount, muttering obscenities under his breath.****

Blaise
"Well, it's nothing very special. Try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations."--Monty Python's Meaning of Life

If there was no G:07, then there is no G:07.

I'd be upset, wouldn't we all.

If you told me right now this was the last Gathering ever, I still could not make it. It sucks, but thats life.

Well, unless I can get plane tickets, hotel room, food, and expenses for a grand total of <$200......?

Matt

MATT> Just out of curiosity, what would you do if there was no G2007? Because, like Jen said, no bids have come in.

Roommates are always a great way to save cash, and look up plane tickets on jetblue.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

Jen: Thank you! Wee! I have someone to look out for. Not like I didn't before, I've known a number of people over the Web, watching art and stuff. Now, it's like I have a personal invitiation.
Gathering 2007: Geez, I hope there are bids. I don't want this one to be my only one.

Christine: I am so, so tempted to sign up for the art track as a web comic panelist. TEMPTED being the key word: some experience but not necessarily a pro. (current project in my name) But first, I need to see if I can come up with anything decent art-wise for the Grimorum.

*runs off, getting really exited and nervous*

Asatira

If I could get to this year's Gathering, I would. Trust me. I wish I could be there, but it;s simply not possible. 2007 is much more possible for me. I'm not being foolish or stupid for not goint to this year's Gathering. If anything, I'm regretful. Coming to next year's is the best I can do, and I'm trying to plan as far in advance as possible to make sure I can be there. I feel like more than one of you is accusing me ditching this year when I could be there. I can't. Wish I could. We'll all have to get over it.
geez.

Matt

Jen > oh, absolutely, I do!

Just a reminder -- two weeks until the 31st! Two weeks until the deadline for story submissions to the Grimorum Anthology! Some people have already sent in their stories, but there's still time for the rest of you to make it! Don't worry. I'm not that scary, honest. Unless I don't get submissions. THEN, I'll be scary.

Oh, and art folks? You have until April 15th to send in your submissions!

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]

Weisman Interview: Nice interview. Greg tends to come off a bit nervous with all those [laughs]. ... as for the art, let's just say that I never thought I'd miss the Marvel days. :P

Asatira - You picked a good Gathering to make your first! This is going to be a biggie! I look forward to seeing you there.

Christine - Make sure you have me down for "So you want to host a Gathering" and "Dude looks like a Lady" >:)

Demonic Lover - We have a specific event for dressing up.

Matt - Yeah, what they said about where the Gathering will be. ... the scary part is, we are three months out of the convention with NO bids right now. If no bids come in... this could be the LAST Gathering. There is never a guarantee that there will be another one. (that's why putting off until 2007 is a bit foolish... as there may not be a 2007 convention, 10 is a good number to end on).

Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<---- click here to see]
"And so it begins, gargoyles, chapter two. Or is it three? I've lost count." -- Brooklyn

HoE> Actually, Greg said that no one critisized Lucas with what he for the "first three - maybe two" movies. He knows all about the backlash because the prequels were so sucky. Hell, in part of his G2003 diary, he bashes Episode II.

Sigh, the Star Wars prequels are right up there with the Goliath Chronicles IMO

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

This would really help me out fellow gargoyle fans! Does anyone know, around how much, was cut from Gargoyles - The Heroes awaken, the movie? This has been bothering me a lot.
Jon

HAPPY ST.PACTRICK DAY EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Demona May
The one and only liveing Insane one!

Happy St. Patrick's Day!

And lets also hope that by St. Patty's Day '07 we'll be excitably talking about how cool the current comic storyline is!

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Happy St. Patrick's Day!

And lets also hope that by St. Patty's Day '07 we'll be excitably talking about how cool the current come storyline is!

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Happy St. Patrick's Day, everybody!

Let's all hope that next St. Patrick's Day (2007) we'll be able to watch "The Hound of Ulster" on a fresh DVD rather than on scratchy old videotapes.

Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Harvester> I agree that Greg Weisman is an awesome writer, bu I honestly have no problem with any of the Star Wars movies (except that they killed off Darth Maul WAY too soon, that guy was AWESOME!!!). I think Anakin went bad out of fear of not being able to protect his family, as well as out of hatred and jealousy of the Jedi Council for not making him a master.

Demonic Lover> While I don't agree with most of what you posted, I would like to see a flashback about how Demona and Goliath first fell in love. I bet they were rivals for the position of Hudson's second in command, and fell in love with eachother out of respect for one another's skills, abilities, and warrior spirits. Kind of a hate turned to love kind of thing. Oh yeah, and Demona and Goliath were rookery siblings before they were mates, which means they have known eachother their entire lives.

Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants

Happy St. Patrick's Day, everyone!

DL: I can't imagine what would draw Goliath into the dark side, but if he did have a reason, it probably wouldn't be as idiotic as Anakin Skywalker's reason for joining (uh oh, I had a vague dream that only lasted a couple seconds, I'd better go kill all the Jedi).


Speaking of which, Greg was wrong when he said that "no one ever criticized George Lucas for what he did with "Star Wars" after the first three - maybe two - movies." I criticize him constantly. In fact, I was going through a phase once where I tried to find an excuse to end every sentence with the words "George Lucas is a dick."

But anyway, Greg is a better writer than George Lucas could ever hope to be.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Come with me to the winged isle, northern father's western child, where the dance of ages is playing still, through far marshes of acres wild." -Ian Anderson

The more I look at the comic pages, the more I like it. I think the action shots are great, its only when characters are standing motionless that it looks a bit off, but I am noticing that less and less, here's a question.

If a 20 minute episode equals 2 issues of comics, does that mean each single issue comic will be equivalent to a 10 minute episode?

A Lex
Paddle upon the clouds, one's own canoe - Cynic

Matt> It was in previous press releases.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

32 Pages! Thats great! Certainly is nice cuz waiting 2 months between issues is gonna be rough...

Where'd you learn that Greg B?

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

I believe Gargoyles will be 32 pages.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

PGF - most ongoing comics I am familar with have a page count of about 22-24. That's story + cover, no ads.

I've never read any SLG publications though, they may have a different standard.

Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid

sorry for the double post, but this just entered my mind.

Does anyone have any idea of the average page length of the upcoming comics? What's the average number of pages in a comic? I read the Marvel comic online, and the issues seemed very short to me. Do you think it will be longer than the Marvel version?

The Gathering: I'm really going to try my hardest to get to the Gathering next year. I've never been to one...God I'm such an idiot for not going when they were in New York- they were so close!! Hopefully by then I'll have a decent job and money to spend. This year's sounds like it will put all the other to shame *sigh*

Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery

*shrug* I know us fans don't have anything to complain about, seeing as how this is the first time in so many years that we're getting new canon material. But I don't see anything wrong with constructive criticism. That's why we're here, to talk about this stuff.
And I agree with Greg B. The artwork is very important in drawing new fans in. But it's only March. We've still got quite a while to wait *sigh*

I have a feeling we will be seeing Katana and Nashville before other new characters.

Oh and I really like that Greg interview. I agree with him that it was foolish of Disney to just drop 2D/cel animation altogether. I really think it has a certain charm that CG animated movies seem to lack. Traditional animation is what got me so interested in art.

Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery

Because so many people keep asking how the location and date of the next Gathering is chosen...

* * * * *

Some conventions are held in the same place and run by the same people every year. Other conventions are mobile, moving around from place to place while still being run by the same people every year.

The Gathering is different.

The Gathering moves from place to place precisely because it is NOT run by the same people every year. The torch is passed, so to speak, from one Convention Committee to the next. A group responsible for running one Gathering may not have anything to do with organizing the next one.

The process is handled through "bids." A bid is a presentation put together by a person or group interested in hosting a Gathering. A typical bid will include information and proposals on location, events, dates, guests, convention staff, etc. Details on the entire bidding process can be found here:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2006/g2007-bids.html

The current year's Convention Committee will review and evaluate all the bids, and vote on which one will be chosen to host the following year's Gathering.

So, while the Convention Committees often receive many excellent suggestions and requests for cities where future Gatherings could be held, it doesn't really work that way.

In fact, the best way to ensure that the Gathering comes to your home
town is to offer to host it yourself!

* * * * *

So the short answer: The date for G2007 will be known once a group steps forward with a bid and is chosen to host it. That said, with over three months left to go until G2006, there's still plenty of time to make plans for THIS year's convention.

99 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]

Addendum:

Matt, this post at the Gathering forum will answer your questions:

http://gatheringofthegargoyles.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=150

Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

Matt-- But there's a difference between this and the promo cover... the guy who colored the promo cover is now OFF the project, and a very talented artist has been picked up to replace him.

Thank the gods for small miracles.

Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

Question: When is it usually decided where the Gathering will be? I mean, when will we know where G:2007 will be?

And who decides this anyway?

I'm trying to plan way in ahead. I'm going to try very hard to get to the '07 Gathering. I havn't been to one since Williamsburg (that was '02, right?)

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

[I'd also say that I think this book is probably closer in TV-Gargoyles style than the Marvel series (which looked like X-Men with wings).]

I've often thought that "Gargoyles" felt rather like "X-Men with wings" - the same element of the protagonists being members of a feared and hated minority but choosing to seek peace with humanity and protect them, while one of the main antagonists is an embittered member of that same minority who believes that peace with the humans is impossible. (Though the gargoyles have one thing that the X-Men don't have: a human friend who's a regular.)

Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Oh, and about the so-called No-neck-Brooklyn. I never even noticed until someone pointed it out, and I still don't see what the problem is. On page 2 Brooklyn looks like he is somewhat hunched forward watching the the tv intently, and he clearly has a neck in all the other frames, particularly on page 6. In fact, Brook looks excellant on page 6. I understand the complaints about Goliath's wrist/hands, but to me, it's not a big deal to me.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Hmmm. Well, I could put out another rant about how we shouldn't be bitching at this point, but I figure myself and others have covered that.

But keep in mind, that many of you are reacting the same way you did when we first saw the promo-cover and look how gorgeous that turned out. Lets save our criticicms (if any) til we are holding a hard copy in our hands in June, ok? I'm glad Demona isn't in this first issue, the Demonamaniacs would be going crazy...

So, who do you think will be the first new character in the comics? I mean someone we know from Ask Greg, but have never seen before in a canon story. will it be Katana? The new Pack member? Queen Mab?

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Hey, at least the coloring looks really good. Besides, I myself am just happy to have new stories by Greg Weisman. As long as the gargoyles aren't stick figures...

Goldfish: I kind of though Matt looked a little high. I'll stop there, and leave people to make their own parallels concerning his last name.

Shara: World Wars? Hell, the second millenium was loaded with conflict. Demona might have been manipulating Brooklyn in "Temptation," but I think she was being honest with him about seeing horrors that would blast the soul. Makes one wonder where she's traveled, and when.

Todd: Yeah, I think Flanders would fit right in with one of the main sub-groups of people we would expect to see in the Quarrymen. I can also picture Moe as a Quarryman, simply because he hates everything, and isn't terribly bright, either. It's hard not to imagine him at a rally, going, "Hey, I wonder what happens when I touch dis end of da hammer." *gets severly shocked* "AAAAWWWWWW GOD, THAT HURTS!"

Patrick: <they care about money and action> Wolf should make friends there easily, then.

Dragomir: I think some of them would need dressing rooms far apart (in the case of Demona, the other side of town, since the talent portion of the show would likely involve her pulling out her laser gun and trying to kill Elisa and Delilah).

Demon@: I don't think we even have news on Season Two Volume Two. But given the surge that seems to have been brought on lately, I'm starting to get hopeful.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
ACME Discount Abortion Clinics - We bring out the kid in you!

Guys it's just the first issue. It will get better. Even with helping with the webcomic our firt issue is not that great. But our second cover came out great. It took our artist the second issue to get the hang of drawing gargoyles.
http://www.ka-blamo.com/gargs/hellsing.html

so give greg and everyone working on it another chance and support them so they can print more issues.

Shara - [Jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
The Gargoyle Webcomic opens finally

Ok, change of topic... ...
Matt i already know who I remind you of. lets see, changing the topic... ... ... ... oh yeah, why did GOliath like Demona in the first place?
JEez, i whish there was an episode about when he met her for the very first tie in his 'very' long life. And why he ever felt for her. Why couldn't he go for anyone else (that is a female gargoyle)in stead of her? He could've taken Desdemona, or mabe he didn't like her that much.
Oh yeah, at these gatherings, can you just come as you are? Do you really have to dress up? What all do we do there?
What if... Goliath went to the darkside?

Demonic lover
May Obadhai light your path.

Hi again guys, in case you were wondering, i'm the anonymous Thailog below, was in a rush and forgot to type my name in, lol. I agree that the art looks good, especially Angela's cool new look. I think Goliath's brow ridges look cooler than before, but Hudson looks a little off to me somehow. Brook looks fine to me, but I suppose his neck thus look a bit shorter...Oh yeah, Purple goldfish, I think that sniper scene looks sweet too!
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants

Comics: Whoo I'm so excited for these. I suppose the third issue is when Brooklyn arrives with his family. I'm really looking forward to seeing the designs for them.

as for the page previews-there's things I like and don't like about them. I knew that the comics would start with The JOURNEY, but I didn't realize it would be rehashing the episode word for word. Oh well. Though I did like that little extra scene with that sniper guy. I think that page looks really good. I hope there's more stuff in this first issue that we didn't see in the episode.

As for the art: Well, speaking as a somewhat amateur artist, I don't mind it too much. Everyone has their own style, and I do like the more cartoony look Hedgecock gives it more than the Marvel comic style. Though I think my favorite comic art so far is from the old Gargoyles comics in the Disney Adventures magazine.

Though I think there's still some problems. The character designs on pages two and four could be better. The perspective on Goliath and Hudson on page 2 is off (It took me a while to realize that Goliath is holding Hudson by the wrists), and Goliath seems to sporting an afro...
Goliath and Brooklyn look strange in page 4- No neck Brooklyn and huge hands Goliath!
And Matt looks...different-kind of like a GREASE or Saturday Night Fever reject.
Other than that I think it looks pretty good.

And I think all of us here are more than excited about the book and will probably buy at least two copies of each issue. But I think it's okay to vent and complain about stuff we don't like about it. Isn't that what a comment room is for? We should be able to talk about the good stuff as well as the bad without getting lectured for it.

Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery

I agree with Gorebash. For a fandom that thrives on the support of fans, we need to just support every new iteration wholeheartedly. So far I've noticed how everyone has been able to overlook glaring mistakes and animation hiccups in the show. I think the same can be done with these previews. especially considering that the art is not that bad. IN fact I think it's pretty good. Of course it's not of the calibur of some of the more well-known books, books I think it works very well. Ya sure there are a few little funky things in there, but I think on the whole they are very minor. Easily overlooked.

Personally I'm very excited to see that we are that much closer to getting new stories in this new form. ^ - ^

Obed - [angelgear2000@yahoo.com]
o.O

Thanks for the tip Ellen, doesn't the comic look great? Still can't get over how much Angela resembles Demona now, she looks so much more mature and adult than that innocent, naive girl we knew before. She also looks a HELL of a lot tougher than before, did you see those muscles? Yikes!
Anonymous
Gargoyles Forever!

I don't think the art sucks. I think it will only get better. I think for a guy who hasn't been spending the last 10 years drawing Gargoyles (at least in a Disney fashion) it looks good. The process, the style, it will all become more refined over time.

I'd also say that I think this book is probably closer in TV-Gargoyles style than the Marvel series (which looked like X-Men with wings).

I think asking an artist to match a preset style that an avid (or is that rabid) fanbase knows by heart, and to do so from the start, is asking a lot.

And consider that these are early previews. We don't have the final copy in our hands yet. So, at the very least, I'd suggest we all reserve further judgement until then. Besides, now is not the time to find reasons to be down.

A real, live, offical Gargoyles comic is about to be published. Gargoyles live again in a very real capacity. And after nearly 10 years of no new (official) content. This is.. so outside of the norm. And it was the will of the fans that really brought this about.

All things considered I think the book looks great and we have every reason to be excited and proud about the upcoming book.

Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]

I think Greg B is right. We've got the cover art going for us(great to hear Steph is workin on coloring those). Ultimately, I think I've been spoiled by the high quality fan art we've been exposed to. We've got so much talent in our fandom that it's hard to for anyone to live up to our standards. Even I find the inner drawings rather clunky looking-but that to me is what comic art used to be like. People's demands for higher standards have been raised quite a bit over the years. Would I like better? Sure. I'd love to see Kythera, Spike, Steph, Aimee, Kanthara or any of our great artists doing these-since they know the characters intimately(Hey, you don't draw a character without getting to know them pretty well ^_~ I used to draw too, I know about these things). For now, what we've got is what we've got-so let's support it with everything we're worth. We've got our Gargs back in new story lines from it's creator-we can't ask for better than that. We've waited a long time for this. Let's not lose it by griping too much.
Wingless

Ack, I meant I'm story first, art second.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

I'll be blunt. I love Greg's writing, I am seriously looking forward to this comic. But, it needs a new artist, not ASAP, it needs a new artist six months ago. I've seen Hedgecock's work on "Haunted Mansion" and didn't like it, but I hoped that he'd have improved some what since then. Sigh, he didn't.

Now, none of this is anything personal against him, I don't know him. But, I really want nothing but the best for this series. I read a lot of comic books, and while I'm definetly art first, story second, this comic deserves better. Far better.

What it comes down to, the art is what gets a newbie to pick up a comic book in the first place. The story is what keeps them coming back. And on that note, at least we have gorgeous covers that match Greg's storytelling.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

Fan Panelists needed!

Here's a list of topics we're hoping to have panels on at the Gathering:

Track - Writing
Creating Compelling Characters
Tools, Tricks and Traps of the Trade
Villains, Villainy and Plots
Romance and Drama
Crossovers: from Silly to Serious
Writing the Erotic Scene
Designing and Running Roleplaying Games
Collaborations and Shared Universes

Track - Art
Sketching 101
Character Design and Drawing
Coloring Methods: Traditional, Digital, Beyond
Web Comics
Drawing the Erotic Scene

Track - Costuming
Costuming and Make-Up Basics
Cosplay Tips, Tricks and Etiquette
Advanced Costuming
Dude Looks Like a Lady … And the Other Way Around!

Track - Meta-Fandom
Your First Con
Online Fan Sites
Fan to Pro
Making Music Videos
So You Want to Host a Gathering?

Track - The Gargoyles Universe
Gargoyle Biology, Anatomy and Physiology
Gargoyle Psychology, Society and Culture
Historical and Literary Influences
Science and Technology
Magic, Artifacts and Tabloid Weirdness

If you consider yourself interested and qualified and willing to participate on any of these, please drop me an e-mail! Many spaces still available! Some panels already filling up! Don't delay!

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]

Shara -- Yes, I'll be at the Gathering. Looking forward to seeing you there! :)

Dragomir -- Mooncatx posted a link to an interview with Greg Weisman, which features previews of some of the comic pages. Just scroll down to her messages.

Ellen

The guy in the second panel is the Jogger; it's Vinnie who's the guy in the third panel.

At any rate, the drawing could be better, but I'm still looking forward to the actual comic when it comes out.

Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Hi everyone, will someone please post the link that will lead me to the Gargoyles comic preview? The few available pages of the comic you guys have described so far sounds awesome! Brooklyn has no neck?

Jenzi> Hi again Jenzi, who's your favorite character?

Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants

Paul: That was the jogger on panel 2. It's the same in the original series.

I tend to agree about the artwork. Hedgecock is talented, no doubt, but his style on the characters doesn't feel as 'chunky' as the cartoon and that's going to take some getting used to. I could go with something a bit grittier in look, myself, but as Shara says, it's early days. What we don't know, and can't yet judge, is how good he is at creating new characters. It's one thing to do on-model stuff of a massive existing cast, but when we first meet Queen Mab or whoever else, that will be when the artist will have the freedom to go and bring his own quality to the work and play to his strength. I'm optimistic that it will be great.

I am slightly worried about the direct "The Journey" adaptation. As a fan, I love it, and as a new reader I think it's probably about the best jump-on point you can get. I just don't want anyone out there with an interest in 'Gargoyles', but not a fanatical interest, to pick the comic off the shelf and go, "oh, okay, it's a comic version of the third season. Saw that on Toon Disney." But hopefully there'll be some kind of introduction for this.

The only actual niggle I have is the title. "Clan Building: Nightwatch" doesn't really have the mystery of "The Journey", or other 'introductory' titles such as "Awakening". Also, neither title will resonate instinctively with a new readership (though hopefully it will be clear what both mean by the end of the episode). The nerd in me would kind of prefer single titles too, like the series.

But all this fretting on the sidelines has nothing to do with what's really important: the show is back, it's back with Greg (and, to some extent, Greg) at the helm and it's just incredibly exciting. The art is still great and captures the flavour of the original. The characters are on-model. Greg's getting to tell his stories without restrictions. It's just thrilling stuff.

Good luck, Greg, David and Greg. :)

Now I just have to work out how I'm going to get a hold of the thing in the UK this summer...

Ed

I think that is a great comic.

But I think I spotted a dialoge error in the comic in the first page of the comic: http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/preview.php?image=previews/slavelabor/gargoyles/Gargoyles01pg01.jpg

Please no one shoot me for pointing it out.

The guy in the second panel looks like Vinnie, but the guy in the third panel is mentioning what Vinnie did in the Gargoyles Episode "Vendettas", Mr. Carter/cream pie cannon in Goalith's face.

Paul Cousins - [paul_cousins@bellsouth.net]

Only thing I worry about if that is the way the comic is going to look, Slave labor might have a hard time selling this to people who are outside of the gargoyle fandom. Compeating with marvel style art and dark image etc is going to make this one only do good within the fandom since we have been expecting it.
shara - [<---------Gargoyle Webcomic]

If this is the first issue I wouldnt worry guys. Usually with a comic book the first issue is the worst issue because the artist is still trying to get the feel of the story and characters.

Second issue should be better.
We should be happy where getting anything like this at all.

If you compare the marvel comics the first issues art wasnt that great the rest followed.

But yeah I agree with you all the artwork for the marvel comic was better.

shara - [<---------Gargoyle Webcomic]

Great interview. I don't mind the first (and I'm assuming second) issue being "The Journey". As Greg said in the interview, things pick up in issue three.

Art, yeah, not too fond of it. I know it's only previews and may be clearer in print, but not too good at facial subtly me thinks.

Asatira

Matt-- Dude, chill. I'm not ripping into this as hard as I could (I'm saving that for like-minded private company). I I AM trying to keep positive (I AM positive that the writing is going to be effing brilliant), and I could handle even the worst goofs in the show, but in this case... it's hard. It's *really* hard. For me, anyway, from an artist's perspective. I just... I look at some of the anatomy, and I want to cry. I'm happy for the people who are pleased with it, but I'm really disappointed in the interior that I've seen.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

Awesome interview and sneak peek! Although the art seems a bit off in places, particularly the anatomy, it has some nice touches such as the somewhat transparent wings and the full moon. And at least the characters are recognizable. Anyone remember the character designs for Owen and Matt in the Marvel comics? But more to the point, new canon stories: welcome home, indeed.

Harvester of Eyes > Yup, Luach was defeated a matter of months afterwards. Of course anything not answered onscreen or here is up to speculation, but I think it's interesting to consider Macbeth in the role of grandfather.

Regarding avatar: Just trying to not unintentionally step on anyone's toes in my first post by using their combination. And I'm somewhat surprised no one has used Robbins before, he's always been a fun side character. Plus he gets bonus points for naming his dog after Gilgamesh.

Dragomir > Thank you for the welcome.

Jenzi

Greg B> Is the Radio Play stuff considered canon?

Listen, if you can stomach the two Hudsons and a Bronx scene in Kingdom, or any of the crappy animation eps of the series you can surely handle this. It's not THAT bad, in fact, I don't think its bad at all. You don't like it. Fine, but lets try to keep a positive attitude here, alright?

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Matt-- Actually, we've seen that before, in "Temptation", albeit briefly. ;] But in that same panel, Brooklyn has *no neck*, and his torso makes him look just as bulky as Goliath (who is so out of proportion with himself it makes my head hurt).

...I should really stop looking at it. -_-

Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

MATT> THat bit with Goliath getting shot at was in the original script for "The Journey"... we heard it in the 2004 Radio Play.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

I like how on Page 2 Brook's wongs are folded BENEATH his arms. That's a new way of doing it. Kinda cool. Goliath does look weird on Page 2, but he looks good throughout the rest I think. Hudson looks a bit green, but I don't care.

Interesting that the first new bit of storyline we see in TEN YEARS is Goliath getting shot at by some New Yorker! Our first taste of NEW material. Our first piece of new CANON material! Thrilling!

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

I can't help it... I wonder where Goliath's hands and wrists went on page 2. And I look at page 4 and think it's "no-neck-Brooklyn" all over again. I'm trying... I'm really trying. But I want to pick apart the anatomy and line quality, and not much of it stands up to close scrutiny... and that makes me sad.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

OH, and what a great interview, as well!!!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

... ... ...FREAKIN' WOW. The Comic looks GREAT!!!

And I totally agree: I read the few pages, and this is exactly what happened.

"When they're reading the book, they'll hear Jonathan Frakes as Xanatos or Keith David as Goliath, with his great deep voice, even with just words on a page. For existing fans, I think it's impossible to forget those great voices, so they'll bring that with them."

Exactly!!!! I could hear each voice in my head!!!

I am sooooo pumped about the comic!!!

DARNIT! BE JUNE!!!

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Wow, thanks for the link to that interview Mooncatx!!!

Looks like the first issue is going to be "The Journey" more or less. I think thats good. As much as I am eager for NEW stories, I think bringing in new audiences is CRITICAL. "The Journey" seems like a good story to do that with.

Ya know, at first I told myself "I should but two copies of each issue, one to read and one to preserve." Now I'm starting to think, "Maybe I should buy ten of each issue... I mean how much can they really cost anyway?!"

As for the art, well, I'll put it this way: It's a lot better than the art from the Marvel comics. I already kinda like it, and I know it won't be hard to get used to. It's a little weird at first, but overall, I like it. I particularly like how Brooklyn looks. Anyway, even if I didn't like it, I wouldn't complain about it.

One weird observation: In the frame where it shows the Clan leaving the Clocktower, Goliath is carrying Hudson in a strange (and possibly dangerous) way. Also, the explosion seems to be in progress as they are leaving, which is... different. One other observation, Angela and Broadway are carrying Bronx together, in "Hunter's Moon" only Broadway held Bronx, I remember that Angela was the only Clan member not carrying someone else or being carried. Maybe its another hint on the Angela-Broadway thing...

Damn, this is exciting!

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Had I gotten born a few hours quicker, I would have come out on the Ides of March. As is... well, I've got about twenty minutes left. My new age is a prime number, and the first digit is one less than the second. I'll leave that one to you.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]

guess my beauty pageant idea was a bust, lol. good night everybody
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants

...oh god.

That's a great interview, but...

The art. It...

**Grits her teeth** That's a great interview.

Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

*suddenly, the song "It's a small word, afterall" is heard in the background.*

Warcrafter - I started to work on a gargoyles card game, based on yu-gi-oh, even got some stuff figured out, but alas, I was the only one contributing and that project sorta fell by the wayside as something for me to pick up. I meant to restart work on it at the start of this year, but things just popped up. (I didn't get along as far as I wanted to another project and then college started back up.)

dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

and it would help if I actually put up the link, d'oh...!

http://comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6886

Mooncatx - [http://comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6886]

Just a heads up that Greg Weisman's interview at the Comic Book Resources site is up *^_^* Some nice preview pages too. *does a little dance* Sounding good Greg!

mcx

Mooncatx

warcrafter I know. Just a little humor ;-)
shara - [<---------Gargoyle Webcomic]

na: Elisa: "your demona looses 20p. Reatack with a goliath"
Demon@

Well, actually i was thinking of something more creative like Magic the gathering, Yugioh, etc. Here ill give an example and make this a fun topic.

Yu-Gi-Oh! card:
Maza Attack Force

Trap Card

If an "Elisa Maza" attacks your opponents life points directly, you may special summon up to 2 "Elisa Maza" from your hand or deck to the field in face up ATK or DEF mode. Your battle phase automatically ends after the activation of this card.

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog

warcrafter Does that mean demona is the old maid card? ;-)
shara - [<---------Gargoyle Webcomic]

Demon@> Unfortunately no, there is no news about season 3 of Gargoyles (That is, if anyone would puchase it just to watch it our to help the Gargoyles fanbase) Infact, there is no guarantee that Season 2 Volume 2 would come out so sorry.

Since no one is talking about a certain topic, I'll just make one up (because I WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN SOMETHING). This is just at the top of my head but what if Gargoyles was also a card game (excluding the poker version that came out years ago) What would card(s) be called and what are the effects (This may be stupid but it's something)

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog

Any news about the third dvd??
Demon@

Patrick : Um, two out of three isn't bad, is it?
Spen

[Today is March 15th, an historically bad day to be the Emperor of Rome.]

Well, if you want to be nitpicky about it, Julius Caesar was never actually Emperor, just Dictator for Life. The first Emperor of Rome was his great-nephew Octavian, who wound up becoming Caesar Augustus - and who got the Roman Magus to put the spell of humility upon gargoyles everywhere. (Which last bit has helped keep things relevant to this comment room. :) )

Another wacky creativity demon: Castaway puts out a commercial for the Quarrymen which portrays gargoyles (depicted via rather clumsy CGI animation) swooping down on humans and eating them, with the announcement "Don't let this happen to you. Support your local Quarryman branch, so that it can protect you from these monsters." We then see Demona watching the commercial and scoffing at it, saying, "As if we'd ever be desperate enough to put one of your humans in our mouths" (speaking in such a way as to indicate that she'd regard eating a human the way that most of us would regard eating cockroaches).

Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

haha I remember that quote. Goliath said that right?
shara - [<---------Gargoyle Webcomic]

Queen? Gargoyles have no queen.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Hey again guys, this is probably the silliest topic I've ever posted thus far, so bear with me. Who would you guys vote for if Xanatos hosted the First Annual Miss Wyvern Beauty Pageant?

List of Contestants:
1) Demona
2) Angela
3) Fox
4) Elisa Maza
5) Queen Titania
6) Obsidiana
7) Maggie
8) Delilah
9) Una
10) Ophelia

My vote, obviously, goes to Demona, Queen of Gargoyles, lol.

Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for the audience, evoking jealous glares from the other contestants

Patrick: let's see, I've got both sets of DVD, will remind my comic shop to set aside the comic for me, and I will be mailing my registration to the Gathering this weekend when I get paid. I think I'm doing good. And this will be my first Gathering, so that should be interesting. Can't wait to see some of you guys!
Asatira

patrick>Advertizing at cons the dvd etc seems to help the most. Im trying to get people to join me at conventions to do this. Where gonna hit anizona next month.
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
The Gargoyle Webcomic opens finally

Today is March 15th, an historically bad day to be the Emperor of Rome.

The three biggest things you can do to support "Gargoyles":

Buy the official DVDs.
Buy the new comic book.
Attend The Gathering.

Those are the three things that will get Disney's attention. You may notice the list does not say "Think about buying the DVD" or "Talk about attending a Gathering someday," and there's a good reason for that. Disney does not care about good intentions; they care about money and action.

100 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!

Patrick - [<--The Gathering 2006]
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society." - Mark Twain

Ellen> thanks you have cheered me up :) when you put it that way I guess I wouldnt want her to miss out on something that might make her life better. I will just miss her.

Will you be going to the gathering this year? Id love to hang out with you more this year. Last year I was so overwelmed with vegas. *L* I had never been there.

Mcbeth is still one of my fav characters. I always wonder what he and demona where doing during the world wars.

Shara - [Jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
The Gargoyle Webcomic opens finally

TODD> YOU TOO??? My old man was lecturing me on that "Julius Caesar" death stuff. March 15th, eh? Huh.

MATT> Yah, in my paper that had a picture of some guy standing on the roof of his car with the water rushing past, almost at his feet. I recognized the name of the place, and thought I'd ask.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

From the Comment Room, March 4, 2003:

"Why was Macbeth trying to steal the Scrolls of Merlin and Excaliber?" - DPH

"...At any rate, I believe that Macbeth was probably planning to use the spells in the Scrolls of Merlin (before he found out what the Scrolls *really* contained) in his hunt for Demona. That was his No. 1 objective at the time, and Merlin's magic would certainly have come in handy in dealing with a highly-skilled gargoyle sorceress like Demona.

It's harder to say why Macbeth was going after Excalibur (if Greg Weisman ever does his "Pendragon" ramble, he might be able to shed some light on it). Much of it may have been the mystique of the sword and its being meant for an "immortal" medieval king - since Macbeth fitted that description just as well as Arthur did, it certainly would have been very tempting to claim it. (And maybe he was looking for a new objective, since I get the feeling from the end of "Sanctuary" that he'd laid aside his hunt for Demona)." - Todd Jenson

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Hi everyone, whats up? Heres a topic to discuss (I hope). Why did MacBeth want the Scrolls of Merlin to begin with? He's an anti-hero right? Which means that unlike Demona and Xanatos he isn't interested in world domination, power, or wealth. All he wanted was to put an end to his own suffering. Was he hoping the scrolls may contain something he could use against Demona?

List of funny things that will never happen on gargoyles:
1) The gargoyle cast playing the WHAAATSSS UUUPPPPP? phone game
2) Goliath getting caught in the middle of a catfight between Demona and Elisa ("choose who you want to be with now!" Goliath goes, "uuuhhhh...")
3) Lexington takes over Bill Gates computer empire
4) Xanatos holds the first Annual Miss Wyven Beauty Pageant, inviting all the female characters of the show to compete (He and the Trio as judges)
5) Puck becomes a standup comic on Comedy Central
6) Wolf becomes the spokesperson for a hair club for men
7) Angela makes the Trio wait on her hand and foot after learning the art of seduction from Demona (Why didn't I try this sooner? she says as Broadway hand feeds her a grape, Lex massages her feet, Brook fans her)
8) Oberon reveals at a press conference that his pointy ears were surgically enhanced to compete with Mr. spock's

Dragomir
Maybe my niche can be the inquisitive crazy man of the comment room? No? Okay...~Dragomir

Todd> Yeah, pertinent is what I meant. Thanks.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Shara -- about your friend, it sounds like you came up with your own good answers to those tough questions. Your friend's got to do what she's got to do. Otherwise she could be wondering "what if?" for the rest of her life.

Unfortunately, it doesn't make it any easier on you. Having met you in person, though, I have tremendous faith in your ability to make and keep friends. You may have to carry on a long-distance relationship with your best friend, but you'll still have great people around you.

Ellen

Beware the Ides of March.

MATT - Could "pertinent" be the word that you're looking for?

Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Kris > Linky no worky ;_;
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid

I'm not sure if this'll work, but look look look! Very cool Brooklyn animation fanart:

http://img.y-gallery.net/files/data/1/13/132499-20060315050524.swf/CaptainGerBear%20-%20Brooklyn%20Bounce.swf

By CaptainGerBear

Kris - [Ontario, Canada]

Patrick> Thanks for the website. I knew they were bootlegs (and, boy, do they have a bunch of bootlegs). I guess what I meant with the question was something like whether that retailer had (or was trying to get) a respectable reputation.

I sent an email off to Disney as well as to Warner Bros.: legal@wb.com

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury

Errr... not poignant... not what I meant to say. What is that word meaning fitting a current situation or appropriate... *shrugs*
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

I try to choose quotes that are poignant or funny or both.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Matt - you know what's funny about that quote. At the point I said, it was true for the questions coming up shortly in Ask Greg. And look where we are today in the backlog: Just starting to see GW process Gathering Journals. A quick glance at the next 50 posts to be processed by Ask Greg reveals . . ~5 questions that are pretty bad. Quote holds true for this moment.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Battle Beast> Wow! You heard about that all the way in Canada? Must've been a slow news week... Yeah, we got a TON of rain. Like a week of constant thunderstorms. Anyway, there was some flooding, but I'm still afloat. I live on the third floor. : )
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

I'd read Greg's "why it was cancelled" post before (and anyone who knows even a little about how the TV industry works, particularly in regards to networks that depend on ratings, could probably figure it out easily enough on their own). It was good for a re-read just now though, thanks for posting that link, Kyt.

Is any of the following still relevant? Short of buying the comics and buying Season 2 Part 2 of the DVD (and Chronicles as well if it makes it out, if only to support the overall franchise), should we be writing Buena Vista and others some nice petition-type letters? Or is this way too late, nine years later?

Greg W. said in 1997:
"The best thing we can do is keep the flame burning. Keep executives, particularly if there's any executive turnover, informed that there is a fan base for the property. Write letters to Buena Vista, to Eisner, to ABC, to Disney TV Animation, to Touchstone. Write letters to local stations, asking them to air reruns. Write letters to the Disney Channel for the same thing. If the reruns are airing in the U.S., we have a much better chance of someday making new episodes. Keep these letters respectful. Just let people know that you loved the show. Praise it's virtues. Show "Deadly Force", "Lighthouse..." and "The Green" at grade schools...Keep the fan base excited about the show. (This to me is the main virtue to the whole fanfic thing, which I have many mixed feelings about. If it keeps the fans interested, great.) Don't let the fans marginalize themselves with hostility or esoterica. If they get territorial they keep new fans out. No new fans. No new episodes. Prove to Disney that you are part of that great consumer demographic that they are hunting for. BUY STUFF. Buy all the stuff you can find. Prove that the show can still make money for the company. Buy all the videos off the shelf. Then write Disney's home video division and have them make more. More copies of existing tapes and more episodes on tape. Show those taped episodes to new fans. Particularly young fans. Adults and college kids are great too, but if kids don't like the show, we are doomed. Try to convince Disney records to release Carl's music on C.D. Buy animation cells from authorized Disney dealers. Talk it up."

Would love to have a score CD for Gargoyles.

"Make the GATHERING a yearly event."

Heyyy, mission accomplished on one point. Nice going long-time participating fans.

Greg also mentioned back then that Gargoyles' best chance was the Touchstone Live Action Feature, but that never happened and for all I know is either completely dead or stuck in the lowest circle of Development Hell.

Kris - [Ontario, Canada]

Matt> I was astonished to read the name "Cape Girardeau, MIssouri" in my local paper... last week, albeit... I remembered the name from here... I read there were floods there... are you OK???
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Demonic lover-- The romance factor had nothing to do with why Gargoyles went off the air. Check this entry in the Ask Greg FAQ for a link and an explanation as to exactly why: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/faq.php?s=faq24#2

Also... changing your voice to Demona's? That's... pretty impressive for a guy to pull off.

And hon, I'm not trying to be mean, but the pants horse is dead... stop beating on it and let it rest in peace.

Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

Well Shara, I say be happy for your friend. If she's in love with someone, don't talk about her having second thoughts. Even if she does move away, you can always keep in touch right? That way, both of you can be happy :)

I think a gargoyle would most likely be treated in a human hospital. I have many reasons explaining this but I'll just leave it at that.

Rednick dictionary for JUICY: "Man, juicy the sexy pictures of Jessica Simpson?" "No but juicy your wife behind you?" "Hi honey"

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog

Ok this has nothing to do with gargoyles *L*

What do you do when your best friend is chasing after a guy and talking about moving away?
Do you be happy for her but at the same time are depressed? Do you try to pretend to be happy for her so shes happy too, while at the same time your crying cause your gonna miss her?

-------------------------------------------------------
And then for a gargoyle related topic.
Since I work at a vet hospital. Would a gargoyle go to a human hospital or a vet hospital for treatment?

Shara - [Jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
The Gargoyle Webcomic opens finally

PREVIOUSLY, IN THE GARGOYLES COMMENT ROOM...

2003, Three years ago this week...
Blaise was 1st!
Another week that was somewhat slow. Most of the topics of the week focused on Puck. There was a lot of speculation on who his love interests have been and will be. Also, we talked a lot about who Puck could be including Merlin, various Robin Hood characters (including Robin Hood himself) and even Shakespeare.
Quote: "I hate to say this but I'm very much beginning to doubt gargoyles ever getting a new series and besides, knowing what Disney does these days it would probably be something like 'Gargbabies' with Demona and Goliath and the others going on misadventures and fooling around and learning lessons about sharing then singing stupid cute songs!" -Silverbolt

2004, Two years ago this week...
Sahyinepu was 1st!
Another slow week. We had more variety in our topics this week however. Much of the talk revolved around Gargoyles being shown on ABC Family Channel. We also discussed the amount of questions in Ask Greg and how long it could be til Greg got through them. Greg's involvement in Batman:TAS was another topic. There was some talk about spam. Sadly, Paul Winfield (the voice of Jeffrey Robbins died this week.
Quote: "Just glancing ahead, I don't see too many 'stupid' questions approaching for a while." -DPH

2005, One year ago this week...
Greg Bishansky was 1st!
A somewhat busy week with lots of varied topics. We discussed the new Disney CEO and how we doubted things would change. There was a lot of talk about how the word "gargess" should never be used. We also reopened some conversations from previous weeks, including the Lexington gay issue and why eating a gargoyle or chimp is gross. We also discussed reasons why this time of year may be slow in the Comment Room. Finally, there were a lot of comparisons of different Gargoyles episodes and storylines to those in TMNT, Batman and X-Men.
Quote: "Ahem, i would much rather have ronald mcdonald as ceo of disney at this point." -dan

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Matt> Caligula without any of the power?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

Wanna know who YOU remind me of?
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Ok, have you ever noticed that someone you know from work or school looks a lot like a character from garogyles? Its really scary... for example, this girl i go to school with, Molly Harness, she looks alot like Destine/Demona, my Eastern Cultures teacher= Hudson, my best friend, she reminds me alot of Golaith. When i am with her she always tells me that i am so much like Demona. When she tells me that, I change my voice to Demona's and say, "there is more than meets the eye Goliath."
you know, i think there is a good reason why that Buena Vista took gargs off the aier. I think that alot of the viewers wanted more romance in the episodes. I was one of them, the action/adventure/fighting scenes are really ok... what i really want more romance btween Goliath and Elisa/ Angela and Broadway.
Ok now for some more 'pants'.
You and i are pants, now and forever~Goliath

Demonic lover
Love changes everything

HARVESTER - I hadn't thought of that bit, to tell the truth. It was more just a general piece of oddness. (I have the feeling, though, that if Castaway ever opened a Quarrymen branch in Springfield - the Springfield of "The Simpsons", I should make clear - something like that *would* happen. I recall some years ago somebody suggesting a hypothetical scene about Ned Flanders joining the Quarrymen and immediately asking Castaway if he had any left-handed Quarryhammers.)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Dragomir> No, I don't think Hudson's mate had a name. Hyppolyta was their first child however, hatched in the Goliath-Demona-Othello-Desdemona-Iago generation (938AD).

I don't think I've ever seen the Jeffrey Robbins avatar used. Kudos for your originality.

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Matt> I thought that Hypplyta was the name of Hudson's mate and Broadway's mother.

Jenzi> Welcome to the fandom Jenzi! (:

List of Past Pawns of Xanatos:
1) The Mutates
2) Coldstone
3) The Pack
4) Steel Clan (though technically weapons, not pawns, lol)

Dragomir
Your last mistake!~Demona from the Mirror

Todd: What's so bad about that one? Oh, yeah, now I remember. In the Goliath Chronicles, didn't Castaway own a construction business as part of his "legitimate" face? Okay, nevermind.

Jenzi: If I remember correctly, in the Gargoyles universe, Canmore defeated Lulach not long after he defeated Macbeth. So who can say? And I don't think people have really "called" Avatars. Use whatever makes you happy.

Greg B and Spen: I was curious about the date for something I'm working on, something that, like the TGS Timeline, is also non-canon. But I don't know if I like the Timeline's date, anyway, though.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"And the kestrel drops like a fall of shot, and the red cloud hanging high..." -Ian Anderson.

*Wide-eyed, she wanders out of the woodwork to stare in awe at THE Gargoyles Comment Room. With a shy smile and a wave she steps forward only to trip over ... a pair of pants?*

Hi everyone, I'm Jenzi. Long story short: a few years ago I saw a snippet of one of the medieval scenes in CoS and my love for the show has continued to grow since. :)

Browsed a bit, and I don't think anyone is using the Robbins avatar?
And to stay somewhat on topic so this isn't just the obligatory n00b post:

Matt > As far as I know, Gillecomgain had no children besides (possibly) Luach. Assuming Gargoyles follows history here; Luach would be married and have both a son and a daughter by the time of his death in 1058. The daughter had three children, so it is possible that the descendents of Gruoch and Gillecomgain or Macbeth are running around somewhere.
And since you were looking for connections: although it doesn't fit into the Gargoyles-verse, according to history Macbeth and Gillecomgain were first cousins- their fathers Findlaech and Maelbrigte/Maelbrighde were brothers.

Jenzi - [youknowwho112@gmail.com]

*slips in my $.02 because I'm one of those who maintain the tgs public timeline*

GXB is right. The tgs public timeline is pretty much speculation. There are certain things that come from Greg Weisman, but making a list of what did and didn't is too much trouble. I'd search Ask Greg for dates before looking at the tgs timeline. There are a few things where the source is marked as "Ask Greg", but unless it's marked that way explicitly, any date on that timeline is pretty much open in the air.

dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Jurgan > have you ever read "- All You Zombies -" by Robert Heinlein?
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid

Greg B. : True, but I'd say it would be a fairly accurate date for it.
Spen

That being said, TGS is NOT an authority when it comes to this.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

Harvester : I'm not certain if it was said in ask Greg or not, but according to the TGS timeline, in happened from October 29th-30th.
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus

LATEST BAD "GARGOYLES"-RELATED CREATIVITY DEMON.

Castaway starts screening candidates for the Quarrymen more carefully after discovering that a number of his recruits decided to use their Quarryhammers, not only for going after the gargoyles, but for (assuming that they live in suburban areas near Manhattan rather than in apartment buildings) renovating their homes, as in "Why call in somebody to tear down this internal wall? I'll just knock it down with my Quarryhammer and - " - a short while later, the fellow says as he surveys the ruins of his house, "Maybe I had the power turned up a little too high."

Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

*groans and slowly regains consciousness, looking with dismay at all the trousers littering the room.* If I ever see another pair of pants again, it'll be too soon.

Matt: I thought that the Children of Oberon and the New Olympians were two seperate entities.

<What about Hyena and Jackal? Are they related to anyone we know?> Besides each other? ( ;

Greg B: One of the things I find curious is that the Ultra Pack is formed by Coyote 6.0. It slipped my mind until I browsed the archives that it seemed like Greg was skipping a number, but apparently there was a 5.0, and Greg has said that he's "important to the Coyote line." I'm wondering if the comic will clear this up at all.


General question: Does anyone have an approximate date on when "The Journey" might have taken place, or know if Greg has addressed this?

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Today in class, I remembered why I didn't go to law school. Because law is boring and legal terms are confusing.

I said Angela couldn't be Goliath's mother because we know who her three children are and she isn't likely to have more than three kids for a various reasons, not the least of which is that Greg W said so.

Perhaps Peter Maza is descended from Coyote. Perhaps Diane Maza is descended from Anansi. But I doubt it. I think Elisa is 100% human. If she wasn't though, it'd be fun to see her go back to New Olympus and tell them she is an Olymian too!

Did Gillecomgain have any kids? I mean, I know Luach is a possibility.

What about Hyena and Jackal? Are they related to anyone we know?

Speaking of being related. I tried putting together a big family tree of all the Gargs from the Wyvern/Avalon Clan. Conceivably they are all related to one degree or another. I think Goliath and Iago are first cousins, and I think Othello is somehow related to Broadway's mom. Ophelia might be related to Broadway as well.

Does anyone else familiar with the Dark Ages spinoff think Iago and Hyppolyta were mates even though Iago lusted after Desdemona? Just a thought.

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Dragomir> What new leader of the Ultra Pack? Coyote remains the leader.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

Thankyou Purplegoldish, I'll check out the Gathering Part Two next time it comes on. And yes, I get what you are trying to say about Coyote and Peter Maza (lol, the fay are always confusing aren't they?).

Fights I'de like to see in the comics:
1) Angela Vs. John Castaway
2) Demona Vs. MacBeth (round one thousand, lol)
3) Thailog Vs. Talon
4) Demona Vs. Delilah
5) Puck Vs. Raven
6) Goliath Vs. The New Leader of the Pack
7) Broadway Vs. Tony Dracon
8) Owen Vs. Glasses

Dragomir
Do you mean that human? Or that human? Oh nevermind, I'll figure it out~Puck from the Mirror

Dragomir: Have you ever seen the episode "The Gathering pt 2"? Vogel's (Renard's assistant) similarity to Owen is expained in full.

And I think it is entirely possible for Coyote to have some ancestry in the Maza family, seeing as how coyote's "default" form looks exactly like Peter Maza when he was younger.

Though that leads me to wonder...did Coyote create his look based on Peter?(And he shapeshifted to look like that just for that particular episode?)
Or has that alway been Coyote's true form and Peter looks like Coyote? (If this is the case, then Coyote must be an ancestor)
I hope this makes sense, lol

Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery

Matt> Is it possible that the fay Coyote could be related to Elisa? He has been close to the Maza family for a long time, so isn't it possible that he could have fallen in love with one of Maza's ancestors and fathered a half fay child? It would explain his interest in them over the centuries. Oh yeah, remember that black hared major domo who works for Alexander Reynard, Fox's father? He looks, acts, and sounds alot like Owen, is it possible that he could be Owen's long lost brother or something? (like another fay trapped in a human form?).
Dragomir
Enough with the pants already, got old a week ago~me

Patrick> I reported that site to Disney about two weeks ago. I'm disappointed they haven't shut it down yet.

DL> You may want to pick a different text color or Avatar. That combo is taken.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin

B&CF > Those are bootlegs, and I reported that exact same web site to Disney last week. I would encourage everyone else to report it, as well. Bootleg DVDs hurt the sales of the legitimate DVDs, and in turn that hurts our chances of seeing an official release of Season 2, Part 2. To report piracy to Disney, visit:

http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/antipiracy.html

Re: unseen relationships > It seems very doubtful that either side of the Maza family has any fay blood. Macbeth couldn't be an ancestor, either, unless he visited Africa or the American southwest.

Music vid idea > "Looking for Love (in All the Wrong Places)" using footage of Brooklyn & Maggie, Macbeth & Dominique, and Elisa & Jason.

102 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"You seem a decent fellow. I hate to kill you." - Inigo Montoya, "The Princess Bride"

"saying Angela is Goliath's mother isn't possible"

With the way the Phoenix Gate works, I'm not sure we can rule anything out, though it's pretty weird to think about it. I heard of a story once that used Gargoyles time travel theory (though I'm pretty sure it predated Gargoyles): A man went back in time and impregnated his mother. Then he went back in time again, had a sex change, and took the place of his mother, becoming pregnant. So he was his own mother and father. Xanatos may want to prove he's a "self-made man," but I doubt even he'd go that far.

Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]

It was the Age of pants!

I can start pantsing again- Goliath

I knew you once, I panst you onece- Demona
ok enough with the pants.Time for buisness.
How the heck did i get last weekend as the Gathering?
the thing i was trying to say was that i can't make it. I am going to be in Austria by then... what a darn shame. At leat i hope that you can what has happened at the Gathering.

OK. Here's more "pants".
Goliath, you are the best pants that ever happened.-Elisa
Maybe we can catch a Pants game- Elisa
Mmmmmmmm.... Pants.- Homer Simpson

Demonic lover

"Thinks it over*

No, Macbeth couldn't be Elisa's grandfather, nevermind.

But Anansi could be her mother's father. Hmmmm, it'd be ironic given the Elisa and Diane's hatred of spiders...

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Okay, since we are lacking a good topic for the week, how is this:

Given that strange unseen relationships seem to pop up all the time in Gargoyles (such as Titania being Fox's mother, or Robyn Canmore and Dingo hooking up in "Bad Guys", or Wolf being Hakon's descendent) what are other unlikely, but POSSIBLE relationships? For instance, saying Angela is Goliath's mother isn't possible, but saying Macbeth is Elisa's grandfather is... barely.

Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

C'mon, people... let the pants horse rest in peace now that the room's wiped, huh?

Jeez. O_o

Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

Dragomir> Jeff Bennett does play a ton of voices in the series, but not Puck, thats Brent Spiner.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Harvester is right, the season two volume one DVD set is incredible. I loved hearing Mr. Weisman and the voice actors give us their thoughts of the series in the intros and commentaries. I was laughing my ass off when I learned that Brooklyn's voice actor also played the voices of Owen, Puck, and numerous other characters on the show, the man is genius (I was also admittably ashamed that I never picked up on it before, lol. He sounds so different!) Buying the official DVDs will increase the chances of getting the second volume of season two out on shelves everywhere (I just HAVE to see the Reckoning on DVD and the intro that will go with it). (:
Dragomir
Trust is hard to build, but easy to destroy

Blagthourne and Crimson Fury: I seriously think that that might be a bootleg. Whatever it is, I can tell you that it's probably not approved by Disney. Check out www.gargoylesdvd.com. There you'll find information on the DVDs that are being distributed by Disney. Buying these will improve the chances of a Season Two, Volume Two (because the one thing about bootlegs, is they don't have cool things like Greg introducing every episode or creator commentary).

Besides, ask just about anyone here. They'll tell you that the last 12 episodes of the Goliath Chronicles are not canon.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Let me help you to pick up your dead, as the sins of the fathers are fed, with the blood of the fools and the thoughts of the wise and from the pan under your bed." -Ian Anderson

Heheh, just had to add are few more quotes to the pants game...

"Our planet cannot support so many pants at once."
"My only concern is my pants!"

"I know you grieve for your pants, but we've all lost pants we care for. Must I lose my pants to prove that this is evil?"

"The virus that attacked Coldstone wiped his pants clean!"

"Demona must've done this to make us vulnerable to her pants!"

And that's all I can think of right now. :P

D. Taina - [<-- Screenshots!]
"Orday rewindum tapus!" - The Heroes Awaken Game

No more pants, please, I can't take it! AAAAHHHHH! Sigh...I'm cool now. Continue as you were. (:

everyone> Good morning guys, do you think Greg Weisman will be able to convince Disney to let him portray Lex as gay in the comics? I mean, if the comics are meant for readers 13 and up, wouldn't that be acceptable even for most censors? I don't care what sexual orientation Lex is, I just want to see the little dude get himself a mate so he doesn't feel left out when Brooklyn returns with katana after he's done Time Dancing. My favorite scene with Lex is when he gets Wolf all mad and throws him off balance long enough to clobber him during Leader of the Pack (even though he got caught afterward, loved that smug look on his face). Another cool scene is when he blows a hole through Coyote with the laser gun, hope Xanatos has insurance for every robot model the Clan destroys, lol. Have a nice day everyone!

List of greatest warriors:
1) Demona
2) MacBeth
3) Goliath
4) King Arthur
5) Thailog
6) Coldstone
7) Hudson

Dragomir
Sssshhhh! Gabriel is still looking for me! Here, take his pants! I don't want them!

10TH!!!
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"The only way to make your PC go faster is to throw it out a window." - Robert Paul

Does anyone know anything about the webstore DVDAvenue? buy.com has a "sponsored link" to the page I have as a link.

Ooh, another pants game. I actually did the entire Awakening 5-parter ("movie" version), including the cast interviews. Looking over it (file: ThePantsAwaken.html; creation date: 10/1/2002), I got quite a few chuckles.

Replying to a few topics from last week's room.
Best dressed character: Bronx, hands down.

My favorite toys/merchandise (in no particular order):
Bronx clock
the two sets of pens with Lex, Goliath, and Bronx; and Demona (red hair with some serious black roots), Broadway, and Brooklyn perched on castle turrets as the pen caps.
the large (about 3 foot tall) video game promo standee (ok, that's not really a piece of merchandise)
Bronx action figure (not the fuschia one, which is just a repaint with different accessories)
playing cards

The "ooooooookay" item: "Winged Warrior Cologne" (which smells nasty)--part of the Winged Warrior Shave Kit. The kit does have a pretty cool "shaver" in the shape of Brooklyn, though.

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury

If Spacebabie is seventh, then I call EIGHT!
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nature" - Inkubus Sukkubus

Sixth
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"People are like stars. There are bright ones, and then there are those who are dim."~ Hot Ice Hilda

Sixth!
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid

Fifth!

And I can't believe I forgot:

"You do remember Duncan, don't you, cousin? You murdered him, and you stole his pants!"

Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"Anyone can read the news to you. I promise to feel the news at you." -Stephen Colbert

4th PANTS!
Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
Click my name for my newest Gargoyles (Brooklyn/Maggie/Talon) music video!

3rd

"I'm receiving a transmission from the pants"
"Pants?"
"Pants is our secret weapon. Xanatos has no idea how much his pants loathe him."
Future Tense

"Tranq them all. Let the pants sort 'em out."

"Rushing off without pants won't help her....And I have pants."

"These pants are the deadliest weapon I know of. It even defeated the mighty Coldstone."

"Welcome. Surely you didn't expect to explore Coldstone's pants without my permission?"

dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Patrick - Blaise isn't the only magic worker around here.

*finds the the beaten carcass of the pants horse and casts a quick spell, bringing the pants horse back to life, just moments before the csi team arrives.*

"Without a mind to direct the pants, the pants will be forever lost in time." Angela - Future Tense

"We all agreed whoever bagged the biggest pants would lead the Pack." ? Upgrade

"You may be afraid to fight without the pants, but I'm not." Broadway, Upgrade.

"Why is it everytime you and I take the pants out, . . " Brooklyn, Leader of the Pack

"I'm pants in a freak show" Dingo, Upgrade.

"Was it pants or a prophecy?" Goliath, Future Tense

dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Bah! Second!
BrooksBabe
"Why does he have to kill them to prove his point? Can't he just show them a pie chart or something?" --Tom Servo

FIRST!!!
BrooksBabe
"Why does he have to kill them to prove his point? Can't he just show them a pie chart or something?" --Tom Servo

1st again
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog