Starlioness : "I could never remember Doyle's name, let alone the other one-shot villians from TGC." That is, on the occasions that they actually gave the villains names.

Incidently, thank you Gorebash for making it that when one mistypes the code, the original message stays in the chat section.
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 11:52:57 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

Patrick: Demona doesn't need a reason to be upset at you. But it was kind of weird to have that lapse yesterday. Emergency come up?

King Cobra: I can't really say anything that won't be repeating what others have said, except for this. I think what stands out in my mind is that "Ransom" was the second episode they showed. Coming right after "The Journey," which was excellent and set the stage for so much, it started the whole process of taking The Goliath Chronicles to hell. The following week we got "Runaways," which nearly imploded my television. But there is one episode I hate more than "Ransom," and that's "Generations." Worst TGC episode ever, as far as I'm concerned. Which means my life is about to get miserable, since I recently asked Taina if I could help ease her suffering, and she passed the synopsis for that episode off to me. Well, I offered to help, and now I'm bound by my honor. I already warned Guandalug in my e-mail that I might be drunk when I type it. No, not might. WILL be.

Greg B: Yeah, even if Fox's arms were full from carrying Alex, she still would have jump-kicked Doyle. Speaking of Doyle, I wouldn't say he was completely a mistake. He just wasn't strong enough to stand on his own. Had he been someone's pawn, that might have been more interesting. Pawns rule, 'cause you have more than one at your disposal, so you can abuse them all you like. Dammit, I want some pawns!
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"I dare anything! I am Skeletor!" -Frank Langella ("Masters of the Universe")
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 9:34:32 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

I'm just saying that compared to AWFUL episodes like 'Seeing Is Beliving' and 'A Bronx Tail', 'Ransom' is tolerable by comparison.
kingcobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
King Cobra3
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 9:08:46 pm EDT from 209.239.132.46

For some reason, my name lost a letter in the previous post. Sorry for the typo. :P
D. Taina
"Orday rewindum tapus!" - The Heroes Awaken Game
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 8:46:06 pm EDT from 172.152.165.241

Jurgan: Hey! I'm glad you like my synopsis. I admit I hadn't thought about Owen turning into Puck and finding Alex, which is why they knocked him out in the first act. My only excuse is that the episode was so mundane, out of character, and predictable, that watching it made me forget that Owen was supposed to be Puck and Alex was supposed to have magic. Anyway, good catch... and I hope you enjoy my synopsis for A Bronx Tail, once it's posted. :P

King Cobra (what's with the number? :P): What's so bad about Ransom? Besides everything? :P But anyway, we all have different tastes. I thought Genesis Undone was kinda decent. If only they hadn't used Little Anton, had made up their minds about what was wrong with the clones, and hadn't turned Sevarius into such a spineless coward with absolutely no reason for betraying Thailog... then it could've been decent. Not GREAT, but decent. Then again, I have a soft spot for it because it has Goliath and Thailog...

Yeaaaah... uh, I'm going to watch Goliath and Thailog wrestle in Sanctuary. Later, guys. :P
D. Tain
"Orday rewindum tapus!" - The Heroes Awaken Game
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 8:44:24 pm EDT from 172.152.165.241

Greg B.> "Dude. There are so many things that are wrong with that episode. Fox going from being Sarah Conner super mom to being a whiny little damsel in distress. Owen is taken out, and Fox starts crying at Lex."

Well, I agree about Fox being weepy. It was kind of weird, seeing the change in her character like that. Owen being (mostly) missing didn't really bother me, though. Not that I hate Owen or anything. I just don't simply care about him one way or the other.

Lex: As far as his next spotlight moment goes, it'll be in the comics and will probably (in my mind) be about the 'Lex being gay' thing. Sure, Disney still holds the copyrights to the franchise, but given that this comic is PG, maybe they'll be slightly more lenient. (sp?)
kingcobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
King Cobra3
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 8:29:49 pm EDT from 209.239.132.46

yeah,Ransom has got to be one of the poorest episodes in the series.. especially with Fox's triple personality or P.M.S or whatever.. *shrugs*.. I could never remember Doyle's name, let alone the other one-shot villians from TGC..

I wonder if Greg W's Trickster story would revolve around Lex or when Lex gets another spotlight episoode..
Starlioness
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 8:14:08 pm EDT from 70.58.67.109

Goliath Chronicles as a whole had little regard for continuity, so it's rather pointless to nitpick the individual episodes in that regard.

Demona and Andrea are going to be upset at me for not posting the countdown yesterday. Darn. I missed the best two-digit number in the world.

68 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
"Jesus was the only guy who ever came back from the dead and didn't scare the hell out of everybody." - Sam Kinison
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 7:40:32 pm EDT from 66.72.192.110

I've said this before, but one thing that disappointed me about "Ransom" was that I was half-expecting the mayoral election to become a background thread in the series (the way that the presidential election that Senator Kelly was a candidate in was a background thread in the first season of the FOX animated X-Men series), and after "Ransom", we never heard of it again.

One other thing that Bishansky didn't bring up but is worth looking at; how did Doyle get the resources to break into the Eyrie Building? The place had a security system that even Oberon found a challenge, and Xanatos certainly isn't going to be removing it any time soon - particularly not in light of those controversial new tenants of his. Where did Doyle (about whom all that we know is that he's the challenger to the incumbent mayor - an Out rather than an In, in other words) get the means of breaching the Eyrie Building's defenses? (The Illuminati, perhaps, but more likely, it's another episode nit.)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 6:45:53 pm EDT from 4.245.17.146

I'll agree with everything you just said, except that I don't see what the problem with "Owen being taken out" is. When he's in his human form, Owen's just as vulnerable as any other human. I'll also agree, though, that it was nice to see a Lex-centric episode- of the trio, he was the generally the most overlooked member. A shame the episode couldn't have been better, though.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 5:08:50 pm EDT from 68.59.43.150

KING COBRA> "What's so bad about it?"

Dude. There are so many things that are wrong with that episode. Fox going from being Sarah Conner super mom to being a whiny little damsel in distress. Owen is taken out, and Fox starts crying at Lex.

Lame villains, who maybe should have been the Quarrymen.

Goliath's monologue being about humans' greed for money when the kidnapping had nothing to do with money.

The whole episode was bullshit.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 4:55:46 pm EDT from 70.185.6.104

Warcrafter> Have fun in Vegas. :)

Gargoyles rock!> Sorry, no new news on it. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed myself.

HoE> *goes to read the synopsis* To each our own. I personally think "Ransom" is one of the slightly better TGC episodes, but then that's probably because it revolves around one of my favorite characters. What's so bad about it?

Sorry for the double post. My bad.
kingcobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
King Cobra3
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 4:27:51 pm EDT from 209.239.132.128

Warcrafter> Have fun in Vegas. :)

Gargoyles rock!> Sorry, no new news on it. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed myself.

Spen> *goes to read the synopsis* To each our own. I personally think "Ransom" is one of the slightly better TGC episodes, but then that's probably because it revolves around one of my favorite characters. What's so bad about it?
kingcobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
King Cobra3
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 4:25:39 pm EDT from 209.239.132.128

I just read that synopsis. It's pretty good, though she asked a question that had an obvious answer: "Why'd they make such a big deal out of Owen being unconscious?" Well, if Owen were all right, he'd turn into Puck and find Alex instantly- which is perfectly acceptable under his sentence from Oberon. I'm pretty sure that was one of those cases where Greg had to advise the team- they had already written the episode, and then Greg pointed out that Owen would have ended it instantly, so they wrote in him being unconscious. I don't know for sure that that's what happened, but it seems likely.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
"Die, die, we all pass away/ But don't wear a frown, 'cause it's really okay./ You might try to hide, and you might try to pray/ But we all end up the remains of the day." -"Remains of the Day," from The Corpse Bride
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 4:20:39 pm EDT from 68.58.253.131

Dragomir: Um, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I think most of us have called him Greg B without the I. Of course, since I doubt you even read the links people generously provide you with, then I don't blame you for making that mistake. But I can't speak for Greg B on that matter. Just my own observations.

Spen: Life's full of coincidences. There's a few Bart Simpsons in real life. Still, "Ransom" is another TGC episode I really hate. I hate it even more after reading DTaina's synopsis.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"I respect the Lord in the same way I respect the Easter Bunny. I don't really think about him or Him until he/He hops up to my door with a basket of eggs." -Sean Riley.
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 2:50:38 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Does anyone know when Gargoyles Season 2 Volume 2 dvd will be released or even if it is going to be released at all?
Gargoyles rock!
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 1:08:30 pm EDT from 64.12.116.8

well, I'm off to Vegas. See you guys Thursday :)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Scoop of chocolate, scoop of vanilla, don't waste my time.
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 12:33:43 pm EDT from 69.234.6.13

Greg B> Sorry, thought thats what everybody called you here. I've seen the others use the name, didn't think you took it that way. Whatever, happy easter

Everyone> Happy Easter Everybody! And to those of you who don't celebrate easter, just have a fantastic day! I'm off on a gargoyle easter egg hunt, uh oh...Princess Catherine spotted me with her eggs...and she still has Demona's laser cannon...OH SHIT!!!!! Dragomir runs for his life as blasts of burning red energy fly past his head like lightning bolts, singing the foliage around him.
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for her adoring fans!
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 10:40:56 am EDT from 71.192.76.212

Starlioness, Spen> Oh, yeah, I'd almost forgotten about the guy from "Ransom". *exhibits 5 seconds of feeling sheepish*

Warcrafter> Interesting linkage.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 4:41:56 am EDT from 209.239.132.122

I recently found this today and something told me I had to share it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVxrA2wVrTU&search=gargoyles
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Scoop of chocolate, scoop of vanilla, don't waste my time.
posted @ Sun, Apr 16, 2006 2:10:52 am EDT from 69.234.6.13

Yes, I was reffering to Pat Doyle.
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 11:51:18 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

I think Spen means Pat Doyle as in Alex's Kidnapper from the TGC episode Ransom...

oh well, it's better than that other guy's name that's been repeated a thousand times in one episodes...
starlioness
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 8:18:33 pm EDT from 70.58.67.109

SPEN> You need a blog.

Why would that creep you out? Is there a serial killer named Patrick Doyle or something?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 6:54:59 pm EDT from 70.185.6.104

Spen> *eyebrow* Who's Patrick Doyle?
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 6:54:06 pm EDT from 209.239.132.183

As a side note that isn't related to anything (like almost all of my posts), I rented "Harry Potter and the goblet of fire" last night, and during the end credits, I noticed something that creeped me out immensly. Music- Patrick Doyle.
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 6:52:47 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

Warcrafter> "oh yeah, you got to gamble in Vegas."

*finds the one silver lining in his last-minute inability to attend the G2005*

With my former $$$ habits, I would've ended up having to hitchhike all the way home. Luckily, I've matured past that and, even if I didn't, my mate keeps me in check.

Sorry for the double post. I hate typos. Urgh.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 6:48:57 pm EDT from 209.239.132.183

Warcrafter> "oh yeah, you got to gamble in Vegas."

*finds the one silver lining in his last-minute to attend the G2005*

With my former $$$ habits, I would've ended up having to hitchhike all the way home. Luckily, I've matured past that and, even if I didn't, my mate keeps me in check.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 6:47:40 pm EDT from 209.239.132.183

Dragomir> Would you do me a favor and stop calling me "Greg Bi"?! I am NOT Bi-Sexual.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 6:36:31 pm EDT from 70.185.6.104

DRAGOMIR - I think that the word that you were looking for was "mettle" rather than "metal". It just goes to show that you need to be extra careful with homonyms.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 6:36:06 pm EDT from 4.244.211.190

Everyone> What I meant by testing Bluestone's metal, was that the Illuminati wanted to see what Matt was capable of, if he was worthy of joining their ranks, or just someone to dispose of for learning of their connection to Mace.

Greg Bi> Ugh, considering how many times Coyote has been destroyed, dismantled, and utterly pulverized by the gargoyles thus far, you'de think the bad guys would let the old rust bucket rest in piece. Its kinda getting old too, Coyote 1.0, 2.0, etc, etc...He was a cool character at first, and was definately the most competent and dangerous member of the Pack, but I'de honestly like to see a new villain join the Pack, not an old one who can't seem to go through one epsiode without being forcibly recycled by Goliath and company (He kinda reminds me of Waspinator from Beast Wars, or Kenny from South Park in that regard...)
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for her adoring fans!
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 6:30:55 pm EDT from 71.192.76.212

Happy Easter everybody.

Speaking of that, where can I find a picture of Bronx with bunny ears, I vaguely remember that someone made one.
Matt Fews
The future of Narnia rests on your courage - Aslan
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 6:29:44 pm EDT from 69.156.216.95

HoE> laugh out loud, i saw that one too. don't know why that one represents video games since the site is "VideoGames Cats"

Easter> I will be spending part of my easter vacation at the Excalibur in Viva Las Vegas. Oh yeah the activities and sites to see, the lighting up of the city at night, and of course, gambling. oh yeah, you got to gamble in Vegas. I won't be back till Thursday so i will have a lot of catching up to do in this comment room when i return.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Scoop of chocolate, scoop of vanilla, don't waste my time.
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 6:26:24 pm EDT from 69.234.6.13

HoE> Already saw it. My BF showed it to me days ago.

Easter: I'm not really doing anything special aside from working. It's just another day to me. Anyone else in the same boat?
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 5:25:09 pm EDT from 209.239.132.183

Stirring the pot is fun. I'm not sure how well this will be received, but the primitive knot at the base of my spine says this must be shared.

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=191

Toodles!
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Not every situation calls for your trademark approach of 'shoot first, shoot later, shoot some more, then after everyone's dead, try to ask a question.'" -President Ulysses S. Grant
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 3:44:21 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Happy Easter/Passover everyone!

Clicky my name for the review...

Well, it is Easter weekend and Passover for those of us of those particualr faiths. I, who am somewhat of a Catholic but not really, got "religified" this morning by partaking in my annual watching of Cecil B. DeMillle "The Ten Commandments" on DVD.

I have watched it on EVERY Easter Saturday for the last five or six years. (I can't remember how long. I know was either or). I owe this one to Todd and his watching certain episods on sertain days. I watch The Ten Commandments one Easter Saturday, Canadain Bacon and SOuth PArk Bigger, Longer and Uncut on July 1, Die hard on a day in September (Guess), The Nightmare before Christmas on Halloween, The Shawshank Redemption on November 25th (My birthday, my fav movie), Love Actually on December 23rd and It's a wonderful Life on the 24th.

The Ten Commandments is absolutly incredible; Chuck Heston (Even though I HATE his politics) is stunning as moses (And deserved the Oscar, which he wasn't even nominated).

Yul Brynner is amazing as Ramses, and together both are very convincing.

The best scene is where Moses parts the red sea. OF course it looks phoney by today's standards, but judging it as someone would have back then, you'd have say wow. That's ****'n good.

The movie holds up incredibly well and should be viewed by everyone at least once. I know it is long, 3 hours 10 minutes, but it's worth every minute of it.

Highly reccomended. Check out my review here http://www.geocities.com/oscarmovs/tencom.html or clicky my name.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
The evil that men should turn their brothers into beasts of burden, to be stripped of spirit, and hope, and strength - only because they are of another race, another creed... if there is a GOD, he did not mean this to be so. - Moses, The Ten Commandments
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 2:41:56 pm EDT from 198.53.28.99

Bit of a goof in that last post. I meant to say that I couldn't get the image of the Society's higher ups playing air guitars "out of my head."
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 10:23:26 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Maybe people are traveling for Easter weekend. Curious thing. Work yesterday was dead. I assumed more people would be calling in to file claims due to all the traveling. But mysteriously, most people obeyed the traffic laws. Stunning.

Kingcobra: Says so right there in Dragomir's post. <This leads me to believe they either never truly wanted Goliath in the first place and simply wanted to test Bluestone's metal...> Now I can't seem to get the image of the Illuminati's higher ups (I don't know if they'd call themselves Upper Echelon or Inner Circle or whatever) playing air guitars. Ah, well, still more amusing than "To Serve Mankind."
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Teamwork is so overrated." -Thailog ("Sanctuary")
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 10:20:41 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Vinnie> I think you're right. :P No offense meant to them, of course.

What's all this about 'testing Bluestone's metal'??!?
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 7:58:38 am EDT from 209.239.132.229

;) I think Spen and Warcrafter killed the room. ;)
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Nazi Germany was the first nation to enact anti-smoking laws. So fight Nazism by supporting your local smoker!
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 6:21:36 am EDT from 69.54.209.97

Okay..........um...maybe a joke should jump start things.

What do you call a dead parrot?
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Scoop of chocolate, scoop of vanilla, don't waste my time.
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 2:30:01 am EDT from 69.234.6.13

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, WE SHALL NEVER DIE!!!!!!!!! WE LIVE FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD........DON'T THINK ABOUT PINK ELEPHANTS!!!!!!!
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 12:37:19 am EDT from 69.234.6.13

Is this room dead too?
Spen
"There are three kinds of people; those who can't count, and those who can." - Wilek Nereus
posted @ Sat, Apr 15, 2006 12:29:56 am EDT from 216.248.119.208

One possibility over what the Illuminati want with the gargoyles could be this: Duval's Master Plan requires as much control as the Illuminati can reasonably exert over everything, every factor in the world. If they control everything, then they can ensure that nothing works against their goals (whatever they are - I assume that Duval still believes in making things right, as Greg described his original motivation). That could be the real reason why they became organized crime's silent partner, for example: to ensure that the syndicates didn't do something that might be inconvenient to the Illuminati's goals. Similarly, what they might really want with the gargoyles is to keep Goliath and his clan from doing something - anything - that could in some ways hinder what Duval wants to achieve. Their purpose might be less prescriptive and more proscriptive - and I hope that that last sentence didn't come across as too confusing.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Apr 14, 2006 7:19:53 pm EDT from 4.244.18.20

Sorry about the double post, but I just needed to ask Greg B: Given any more thought to that proposal of mine? Those rusty hooks in my garage are just gathering dust right now. It would such a waste to have to sell them to those preschoolers down the road.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 14, 2006 4:50:49 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Dragomir: I'd be curious to see the results of the Society testing Bluestone's metal. Although he never struck me as a musical type, and I also have a hard time picturing an ex-Round Table knight or his subordinates liking that kind of music anyway. But stranger things have happened. Unless it was real metal, in which case they probably just pounded it with hammers and then told him to either try harder or go build a bridge with it.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"When Jesus was president, he ate babies all the time. Or Satan. One of them ate babies."
posted @ Fri, Apr 14, 2006 4:47:58 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Out of town for the weekend. Later people. Have a Happy Easter, if you celebrate such things. If not, have a good weekend.
Later.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Fri, Apr 14, 2006 4:14:20 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Actually, Mace wanted a live gargoyle, thinking that was what his Illuminati superiors wanted.

What the Illuminati actually wanted is unknown, as this appears to be an organization run through multiple layers of indirection.
JJ Gregarius
Like the man said, "There are no problems; only solutions!"
posted @ Fri, Apr 14, 2006 2:12:46 pm EDT from 206.57.92.155

Dragomir> Mace Malone is dead. He died in the Hotel Cabal shortly after the episode "Revelations" because he could not get out. Greg has confirmed this.

Also, I believe the reason the Illuminati did not simply kidnap a gargoyle from the Clocktower is because they were not aware that that is where the gargoyles roosted.

Good point about the Illuminati wanting a live gargoyle. I hadn't remembered that until you mentioned it. Keep in mind that we do not know if they want a gargoyle to study or for information or to use for some purpose or something else. It could be any reason or any number of reasons.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Fri, Apr 14, 2006 1:26:19 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

I wasn't flaming you.

And what opinions on who the new Ultra Pack leader will be? I never posted an opinion, I posted a fact. You seem to have a lot of trouble telling the difference between facts and opinions. Greg Weisman has said that Coyote will be the leader of the Ultra Pack. He said it.

Here, let me show you.

1. Who would guide and desire its formation? Earlier it was Xanatos who had done it, but his alliance with the Gargoyles doesn't seem to make it very possible he would create the Ultra-Pack...
2. Who would *lead* the Ultra-Pack? The new character you had mentioned?

Greg responds...
1. Coyote 6.0.
2. Coyote 7.0.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=2143

So, you see. Plain as day. Greg said so. That is a fact. Not my opinion.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Fri, Apr 14, 2006 1:16:51 pm EDT from 65.33.202.237

Nikki> Thanks, Happy Easter to you too!

Asatira> Your very welcome, (:

Greg Bi> Dude, I merely suggested that might be what the Illuminati have planned, and used their motives in TGS for comparison. I never said that was what Greg Weisman really had in store for the true motives of the Illuminati and the mysterious Mr. Duval in the new comics (Though I suspect that capturing a live garg for study is at least close to what they want, considering Mace's Malone's actions in the Hotel Cabal, poor bastard. Wonder if he ever got out or if their is dead gangster lying around the Cabal's lobby somewhere...) Anyway, don't be so annoyed by what I post, you don't see me telling you to stop posting your opinons of who the new Pack leader will be or the likely hood of Weisman ever completing his ill-fated spin off series ideas. I didn't even mention my thoughts on Demona's future this time, so I don't see what you have to complain about. So be cool and lay off Greg bi, appreciate your thoughts but you didn't need to intervene this time, thankyou.

Everyone> I've always wondered why the Illuminati never simply broke into the Clock Tower and kidnapped the gargs during the day (other than the fact that would end the series, lol). This leads me to believe they either never truly wanted Goliath in the first place and simply wanted to test Bluestone's metal, or that they have other plans for the Gargoyles that require them to wait for a time before capturing or destroying them. They certainly had plenty of time, as well as power, to get the job done by now. Wonder what they're up to...Oh yeah, and is Xanatos really supposed to be a lower ranking illuminatus, or was Mace be snide? Happy Easter everybody!
Dragomir
Trust is hard to build, but easy to destroy
posted @ Fri, Apr 14, 2006 12:16:55 pm EDT from 134.241.91.68

Hey maybe Greg W should make a comic spinoff based on the life and times and calls received by Xanatos' secretary. Be sure to pick up Issue 1: "Mr. X, you have a call on line 3"
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Fri, Apr 14, 2006 10:34:52 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

HARVESTER - Thanks for pointing that out.

MATT - I've read that bit about rabbit history in a few books about British history, including Robert Lacey's very good "Great Tales From English History" (which I recommend to all interested in that subject matter in this room).
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Apr 14, 2006 7:19:45 am EDT from 4.244.208.210

Todd: Yeah, but he had asked Xanatos if it was wise, to which Xanatos said no, it wasn't.

And I never stopped to think about significance of the head calling Xanatos directly. If I had to guess, I'd say that Duval doesn't do that sort of thing often. Which, of course makes the fact that Xanatos says he'll call Duval back that much more rife with possibility. I wonder if Xanatos will be getting more calls in the comic.

Matt: I'll have to read that. I used to be very big into the "Redwall" series. But now that I think about it, I do remember the hares in that series all spoke with cockneyed English accents. So now I'm questioning if this was deliberate.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"I respect the Lord in the same way I respect the Easter Bunny. I don't really think about him or Him until he/He hops up to my door with a basket of eggs." -Sean Riley
posted @ Fri, Apr 14, 2006 6:05:31 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Rabbits and Jesus.. maybe one you can make a hot Cross and the other a hot cross bunny? *shrugs*..

hmm.. I wonder if Hudson ever figured the Big Apple out?
starlioness
posted @ Fri, Apr 14, 2006 2:32:37 am EDT from 70.58.67.109

Todd> re: rabbits on the English Isles.
Thats very interesting. I did not know that. I was so shocked when I read what you wrote that I immediatly searched through both my Animal encyclopedias and the only rabbits, hares or pikas I could find in that area of the world had indeed been introduced. Fascinating. I'll never read "Watership Down" the same way again.
How the Hell did you know that anyway?
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 10:17:48 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Matt> Well, I worked at a very small zoo and some of the staff didn't much care for the fact that I cared for the animals more than them. Eh. I don't mind working with people but I don't feel I should have to clean up toilets. Animals don't know better but people do. That, and they wanted me to "treat the community service workers nicer". *growl* Don't even go there. Needless to say, I and the owners of the zoo had differences of opinion. But I absolutely loved working with the animals:) They had to fire me to get rid of me ;P And a volunteer job at that. How someone can be an unpaid supervisor is beyond me but at the zoo, the staff did it all, and we were all volunteers. But like I said, differences of opinion. Eh. Enough of that.

I'm trying to locate the explanation one of my garg characters gave to her kids about the twin personas for this coming holiday. Actually, it was a fey that explained the whole bit:) Rather in a nice way. I'll try and look it up if anyone is interested. The connection between Easter Bunny and Jesus? *l* Really, I'm not sure there is one. One tastes good and one has good taste. Hey, opposites attract.
Jade Griffin
Weee! Foood!
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 9:33:00 pm EDT from 71.83.112.202

Actually, it was Owen who had the line about whether it was not a good idea to keep the Illuminati waiting.

What really intrigues me about the scene is that Duval was (apparently) phoning up Xanatos in person, rather than delegating it to somebody on a level somewhere between himself and Xanatos. It's got to be important when the head of the Illuminati wants to talk directly to a lower-echelon member.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 8:50:29 pm EDT from 4.244.18.190

Hmm, for some reason I just got this picture in my mind of Demona seeing an advertisement for an "Egg Hunt" and misunderstanding its meaning. I'd feel sorry for the cop who has to fill out the report on that one.

One of the more interesting unused elements from "The Journey" was Xanatos saying that it's unwise to keep the Illuminati waiting. I can't imagine what Greg's original idea for an Illuminati story was, but I can't help but wonder if it had something to do with what happens when a lower echelon member does keep them waiting.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"I respect the Lord in the same way I respect the Easter Bunny. I don't really think about him or Him until he/He hops up to my door with a basket of eggs." -Sean Riley
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 8:34:17 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

I think that Broadway would probably be keen on the chocolate eggs and bunnies, anyway, regardless of what their significance is. :)

The mention of rabbits (well, as long as we brought up the Easter Bunny) reminds me that the gargoyles, before their big sleep, wouldn't even have met any rabbits face to face. They weren't introduced into the British Isles until after the Norman Conquest (they were imported for their fur, but some escaped into the wild, and began multiplying as only rabbits can do). Though I suspect that the clan found out about rabbits soon enough after awakening, given how familiar they are in today's world.

(I recall all those times when I used to work on TGS and had to keep on reminding the "Dark Ages" staff that there were no rabbits in 10th century Scotland, until Patrick Toman commented "I see that Todd Jensen is splitting hares again.")

ASATIRA - Good question. I'm hoping that the comic will eventually answer it.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 7:31:32 pm EDT from 4.244.18.197

I wonder if gargoyle females lay unfertilized eggs if they hit the 20-year cycle and don't have a mate... Hmmmm.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 7:17:32 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

How about an Easter egg hunt where some little kid discovers a Gargoyle egg. Don't think I'd wanna be that unsuspecting little person that would have to explain to an unknowing gargoyle that this is a yearly custom that we hunt for colored speckled eggs like this every year at this time. Then picture the kid falling to tears when he/she has to give up the extra large egg.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 7:05:42 pm EDT from 70.27.173.206

Last Easter I dyed some Easter Eggs to look like actual Gargoyle Eggs (with the purplish spots). They were cool, but took forever.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 6:57:46 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

I imagine that Elisa would have a tough go of explaining that one, because it barely makes sense to us humans...

* * * *

And kids eat chocolate eggs, because of the color of the chocolate, and the color of the wood on the cross...

Well, you tell me! It's got nothing to do with it, has it! You know, people going, "Remember kids," the kids who're eating the chocolate eggs, "Jesus died for your sins." "Yeah, I know, it's great! No, no no, it's bad, it's bad! No, it's bad! It's very bad. It's terrible! Whatever you want, I mean - just keep giving me these eggs."

And the bunny rabbits! Where do they come into the crucifixion? There were no bunny rabbits up on the hill going, "Hey - you - what, are you going to put those crosses in our - bur - warrens? We live below this hill, all right?" Bunny rabbits are for shagging, eggs are for fertility. It's a festival - it's the spring festival! Christmastime, you know, Jesus, born to a big jolly guy in a red jacket. "Ho, ho, ho! Ho, ho, ho, baby Jesus! And what would you like for Christmas?" "Peace on Earth and goodwill towards men." "Well, what about a clockwork train?" "Oh, yes, much better. Forget - forget peace on earth, I don't care."

-- Eddie Izzard, "Dress to Kill"

* * * * *

71 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 6:47:57 pm EDT from 66.72.192.110

Speaking of Easter, still can't help but wonder what Gargoyles would think of our custom of decorating chicken eggs for a holiday. Can just imagine Elisa trying to explain the ritual to Hudson somehow.

I think it was Roy & Kiva that painted up some really beautiful Gargoyles eggs with each member of the clan having their face on an egg. I'm pretty sure I saved the photo somewhere. Maybe they could repost it for us if they still have it handy.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 5:50:34 pm EDT from 70.27.173.206

Hi everyone. I came on here to wish everyone a good Easter, hope everyone has a great one.
I was recently looking at the past comment room archives when I posted as 'dudette'. I left alot of random messages - but they were well meant and not supposed to be annoying. I think I posted as 'dudette' because I wasn't confident enough to leave my real name - I'm new to this web fandom stuff. I think that's the reason why I filled posts with stuff like 'Hiya yall! etc'. I wanted to get involved but didn't know quite how to suitably go about it. I'm saying this now because Looking back, the type of voice I used doesn't even sound like me.
Anyway, I enjoy reading the comments in here as usual. Take care.
Nikki
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 5:23:20 pm EDT from 62.252.32.16

DRAGOMIR> You really need to stop citing TGS in regards to future Gargoyles stories. TGS is merely fanfic. We don't know what the Illuminati wants in Greg's Master Plan.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 2:54:55 pm EDT from 65.33.202.237

Matt> Montgomery Zoo, in Montgomery, AL. Nice little zoo, IMHO.

Dragomir> Thank you!
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 2:38:20 pm EDT from 24.214.68.215

Asatira> Happy Birthday! And I too wonder just what exactly the Illuminati want with the gargoyles. Funding a hate group dedicated to killing all gargoyles definately goes against any plans they may have to capture them for study or protection (like in the TGS fanfics where they wish to preserve the species against their will). Unless of course, they intend to use the Quarrymen to scare the gargoyles into their waiting arms, pretending to have their best interests in mind.
In my opinon the Quarrymen pale in comparison to opponents like Demona, Xanatos, Thailog, and Oberon due to their lack of magical powers and super strength, but they more than make up for it in their ability top sway public opinion against the gargoyles. I personally wonder how the gargoyles will react once they learn Matt has been an Illuminati since the conclusion of the events concerning Mace Maloan and the Hotel Cabal? Does Xanatos know?
Dragomir
Talk is cheap, friendship is priceless
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 12:05:51 pm EDT from 134.241.91.125

Asatira> Which zoo is your Zoo?
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 10:48:02 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Matt> (zoo)Ah, so that's how it goes. I'm pretty much just looking and trying to get some official experience; up til now, most of it has been as a volunteer at the local zoo and a year as an assistant. Again, congrats!

(Illuminati) Again, I agree with a lot you've said. I think that a turning point is Goliath's sacrifice you brought up. As anyone who follows numerous historical events, all it takes is the act of one person to sway public opinion for or against something. I imagine his sacrifice is something emotionally big, if not actually (there are many types of sacrifices), and if it resonates strong enough, opinions will change. My only thing is I don't really know what the Illuminati's ultimate goal is/was in regards to capturing the gargoyles. Study? Protection? Potential manipulation? *shrugs*
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 10:42:23 am EDT from 24.214.68.215

I agree with Phil, I think the Xanatos family will play a major part in the passing of the GMPA. And don't forget that Greg W has also said that Goliath's great sacrifice will influence public opinion heavily enough to make a major difference and get the GMPA passed. The Illuminati may run the world, but if public opinion sways mostly in one direction, there is not much they can do about it. I mean, if the Illuminati wanted to reinstate slavery in America today, would they be able to do it? If 95%+ of the population is against something, could the Illuminati make it happen anyway?
I think the Illuminati go with the flow a bit more. Once they see which way the wind is blowing I think they'll drop the funding for the Quarrymen and continue to work within the system to accomplish their goals like Xanatos would.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 10:19:43 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Todd, regarding the Gargoyles Minority Protection Act and the Illuminati:

(Note: This is all speculation on my part and is not intended to be any kind of revelation from the expanded Gargoyles 2198 document.)

Knowing that Alexander Fox Xanatos IV will be Secretary-General of the UN in 2198, I suspect that AFX I or II was also an influential figure in the UN. I suspect that, like his father, he is a member of the Illuminati but, also like his father, may not obey their orders 100% of the time. I'm looking toward the Xanatos family being influential in the passage of the GMPA.
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 9:10:36 am EDT from 69.129.121.95

Cream Cheese Alchemist> I mentioned that in February. It was the one for $500, right??? (It ahs to be. They only had one.)
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 8:52:22 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

I've also suspected that the revelation that it was the Canmores who blew up the clock tower would get far less publicity in the media than the original claim that the gargoyles were the ones who did it. Not only out of sensationalism, either. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Illuminati also put pressure on the media to ensure that the retraction gets buried in the back - at least, for as long as they're pursuing their anti-gargoyle war.

That raises one side-question, incidentally. If the Illuminati really are as powerful as they're supposed to be, and that intent on hunting down the gargoyles and capturing them, how is it that the United Nations eventually winds up passing the Gargoyle Minority Protection Act? We know that it doesn't take place for a long time, but still, the fact that it does eventually take place indicates that either the Illuminati's power or their pursuit of the gargoyles must have waned. We know from Greg's "Gargoyles 2198" document that the Illuminati are still around in 2198, so the Society couldn't have folded before the Gargoyle Minority Protection Act was passed. One possibility is that the Illuminati were going through a period of weakness at the time (maybe a combination of blows dealt them by the gargoyles, Matt Bluestone, King Arthur, and the Redemption Squad that resulted in it taking years for the Illuminati to return to their original strength), or maybe the Illuminati had changed their minds about the gargoyles and called off their hunt for them (assuming that they really were funding the Quarrymen for the purpose of hunting the gargoyles and it wasn't for some other purpose, a la a lot of Xanatos's schemes that seemed to be targeting the gargoyles but really were aimed at a different objective). It'd be interesting to find out.

Returning to the Canmores, I wonder how Jason and Robyn's trial for the clock tower attack would go. On the one hand, they launched an assault on a police station, which would be very serious business. On the other hand, they were doing it to kill a clan of gargoyles (currently a very unpopular clan of gargoyles) nested at the top rather than the police, and Jason, at least, is now repentant of those earlier actions. We know that Jason will have enough liberty to be a candidate for Elisa's date in the Double Date story, and to make efforts to reach out to Jon and turn him aside from his path; we also know that Robyn gets recruited by the Director for the Redemption Squad. So I doubt that their sentence will be that harsh.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 7:41:54 am EDT from 4.244.209.49

Let's not forget that Yellow journalism will play a big part in keeping people afraid of gargoyles. Jon Carter/Canmore is not the exception to the rule when it comes to sensational reporting. When the newspapers learns about the Hunters being responsible for the the attack the paper will probably end up burying their retraction where it'll most likely be overlooked.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Nazi Germany was the first nation to enact anti-smoking laws. So fight Nazism by supporting your local smoker!
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 6:18:11 am EDT from 69.54.209.36

DPH> Precisely. : )
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 3:01:55 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Matt - <In my experience, like any other job, the job would rule if it wern't for the customers.> That's like saying management is easy, if you don't have to deal with people.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 2:00:53 am EDT from 63.232.251.245

I've been working at the StL Zoo in odd jobs (gift shops, guest services, etc.) for a couple years, but now i'll (finally) be a keeper...

Jade Griff> What do you mean except for the staff? In my experience, like any other job, the job would rule if it wern't for the customers.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 1:28:28 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Matt> Congrats! I'm envious, having worked in a zoo for 5 yrs. It was fun, except for the staff...
Jade Griffin
Weee! Foood!
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 1:16:24 am EDT from 71.83.112.202

The Disney collector shop on Main Street in the Anaheim DL, as of this past afternoon, has a cel of Goliath and Demona for sale. Would've gotten it myself but the thing is currently outta my price range.
Cream Cheese Alchemist
lurker of too many fandoms
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 1:12:49 am EDT from 70.33.102.91

Welcome Chassy> Have a cookie! *holds out a plate of cookies*
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Apr 13, 2006 12:08:51 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Demonic Lover-- What was so hard about clicking the "I created my profile with Myspace Layouts+" link in my profile that you had to come bother me here? This is something you should have asked me outside the CR (I don't check it much these days).
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nautre"
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 11:18:15 pm EDT from 24.126.11.109

Forgive for the extra W in my name on that last post
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD........DON'T THINK ABOUT PINK ELEPHANTS!!!!!!!
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 10:25:26 pm EDT from 69.234.6.13

Welcome Chassy :)
WWarcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD........DON'T THINK ABOUT PINK ELEPHANTS!!!!!!!
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 10:24:47 pm EDT from 69.234.6.13

Hello everyone...
Chassy - [Cheza091883@aol.com]
To thine ownself be true...
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 10:19:20 pm EDT from 205.188.117.68

I think this is the first time I've seen Greg use a different signature.

Matt: Congratulations. Good luck with that.

DL: By all means, make them as short as you like.

Patrick: Matt's comments lead me to believe that the Canmores did have some sort of police record. Jason's file did say that he and his siblings had been leaving a trail of violence behind since Charles's death (or rather Matt said it, but I'm assuming that was after he read it in Jason's file). That's pretty vague, so there's no telling what that entails.


You know, one of the things that really shocked me about that episode was not so much Goliath's desire for vengeance, but Angela's. We've seen that side of Goliath before, but not so much from the next generation. True, she had more of a reason to want to get even than Goliath did, but still, Brigitte's reading of that line in the clock tower always gives me a shiver. I especially like how they still captured the spirit of her character, though, in that she came to her senses before Goliath did.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Here's the everlasting rub: neither am I good nor bad. I'd give up my halo for a horn, and a horn for the hat I once had." -Ian Anderson.
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 8:49:13 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Hey gang,

I'll be attending AniZona this weekend in Phoenix, Arizona. I don't know if any of you are in the that general neighborhood, but if you are stop by and say hello!
Greg Weisman
"If you're not sick of me yet... when will you be?"
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 7:41:25 pm EDT from 72.25.64.98

I think Elisa could've dug into their past and discovered the same things Matt B eventually did. I'm sure that discovering that Jason was one of the Hunters would've been good knowledge for Elisa to have. Even if Elisa didn't have enough information to make an arrest, she would've been able to better fill in Goliath and the Clan and knowledge is power. Instead, Goliath runs off half-cocked with the intention to kill some humans without knowing anything about them. If Elisa had had time to investigate first she would've revealed Jason for who he is and been able to talk to him, not to mention arrest him for impersonating a cop.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 6:59:38 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Keep in mind that the situations that I cited where the reason why humans were attacking gargoyles was because they believed the gargoyles to be evil monsters. Fighting back would be the worst possible response in this situation, because it would only convince these humans that they were right about gargoyles, that gargoyles were indeed evil and had to be destroyed. Retaliating would be like pouring gasoline on a raging fire.

The Canmore trio were not straightforward villains like Gillecomgain, Duncan, and Canmore. They were after the gargoyles because they believed the gargoyles to be demons that it was their duty to destroy (if more to satisfy a personal feud than to protect the innocent; again, if their goal had been primarily to protect the innocent, they wouldn't have blown up the clock tower). Fighting back against them would only convince them that they were in the right, that the gargoyles were evil and that they should destroy them. Certainly Goliath's heading off to the dam to get revenge was a factor (though just one factor, and not necessarily the most important one) in convincing Jon that his initial misgivings about the hunt had been ill-founded and that the gargoyle race really was a threat to humanity.

When the motives of the anti-gargoyle people are more genuinely villainous (as in the Pack's desire to go after the gargoyles for mere sport, or the Vikings' intent to wipe out the clan so that it can't interfere with their sacking Castle Wyvern), then fighting these guys is a different story; it wouldn't make any difference to the Pack or Hakon whether the gargoyles were evil or not. But the Canmores in "Hunter's Moon" were hunting the gargoyles out of a misguided vendetta, not out of an attitude of "Once they're out of the way, there'll be nobody left to stop us from looting all of Manhattan". And that's a significant difference.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 6:59:05 pm EDT from 4.245.16.133

How was Elisa going to get the police to go after the Hunters without revealing the clan's existance to the authorities? I don't see how Goliath could have resonably expected human authorities to intercede. If the Hunters had attacked a human, yes, then law enforcement would have a crime they could arrest them for. Up until they attacked the clock tower, though, the Hunters had done nothing to draw the attention of the NYPD.

Even if Elisa had revealed the clan and the attack on Angela to her fellow officers, what crime could the Hunters be charged with? Since Angela isn't human, would the charge have been attempted murder, or merely a citation for cruelty to animals?
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 6:44:34 pm EDT from 66.72.192.110

DL>> germane: adj., Being both pertinent and fitting; having close kinship and appropriateness. See also, relevant or Google.

http://www.myspaceeditor.org/

And it takes more than three people to make a movie. Lots of money and an original idea or something to which you own the rights aren't bad things either.

Todd>> It's also worth pointing out that the gargoyles' fear of humans is also painted by a very biased view of them. They've seen more of humanity's reactionary, fearful and dangerous side than its caring side, enough so to prefer to stay in hiding than make their presence known. This is illustrated best by Angela's approach to humanity and, well, all the other gargoyles - even Goliath remains skeptical about humanity's ability to be welcoming despite his relationship with Elisa. An unfortunate similarity between the two communities.

That's about all I can manage to contribute at this time.

Congratulations, Matt.
Alex Garg - [<-- Frappr Gargoyles Fans]
Where's that blasted easy button I keep seeing on television?!
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 6:41:15 pm EDT from 216.145.68.246

Keep in mind that Goliath isn't the leader of a country. He is a leader of a small Clan of gargoyles that don't legally exist. Sure he can choose to strike against the Hunters if he wants, but he will have no official support. In this case, I think Elisa was right, the Hunters are humans and human law should handle the situation. Goliath and the Clan should lay low.
Goliath was clearly out of control. I mean, when the Clan faced the Pack or human bad guys (muggers, burglars, etc.) they didn't go for blood and they always left the crooks for the police to deal with even when these lawbreakers were clearly trying to kill the gargoyles. What enraged Goliath was that the Hunters were a different kind of bad guy and they singled out Angela in particular. They were not trying to steal or whatever, they were out to kill gargoyles. In my opinion, they are still humans and they should've been left to humans to deal with. Goliath just took their attack personally and he should've calmed down and let Elisa take care of it. Just my take.

"This doesn't strike you as a tad reckless?" - Brooklyn
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 6:03:13 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Seems to me Goliath was employing the same "strategery" that a lot of human leaders employ. When you have an enemy out there that's already made strikes against you, don't sit around and wait for them to come to you... take the battle to them. It's not an entirely bad idea if your evidence regarding who actually is the enemy is solid.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 5:46:19 pm EDT from 66.72.192.110

Sry to make that soooo short.
Picture this... Elisasinging Olivia Newton John's I Honestly Love You to Goliath? How romantic is that?
When will Hudson ever find a mate for himself now that he is in the present?
Speaking of hudson, King Cobra, I loved reading Threesome, You should put that on www.fanfiction.net. Not just that but all the rest of your stories.
Over spring break i ve done a hell of alot of work on my poetry. They're mainly about ep's from Garg's, Narnia, and pop culture.
Here's a great idea, lets create a movie, not a movie as an ep, I mean a movie that we could make into the theaters!
We could have Kyt and crzydem do the art for it, I can writet the script, Greg can be the "Producer", I hope you know whati mean....
Gtg, the tea is done. Bye!
Demonic lover
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 5:04:01 pm EDT from 165.139.175.97

Hey y'all!
Kyt, how the heck do you place a background on your profile on myspace?
Demonic lover
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 4:42:51 pm EDT from 165.139.175.97

Matt> congratuatuions my friend, I wish you the best of luck with your new job!

Asatira> Happy Birthday in advance! Hope you enjoy yourself along with your loved ones!
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for her adoring fans!
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 3:03:52 pm EDT from 71.192.76.212

Matt> Congrats. I'm gonna have to ask you later how that goes.

Alot of good points have been raised, so I can't really say much. A large part of "Hunter's Moon" was how things kept escalating. On both sides (but not so much for Demona), the breaking point, the point where everyone had to stop and see things, was at the dam when Elisa and Jason fell. It was a blow for both sides, and the clan was the side to actually take that figurative step back. I need to watch it again to clear some things, but that's what I think.

Minor note> tomorrow's my birthday. Just thought I'd share. :p
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 1:47:56 pm EDT from 24.214.68.215

The problem, I think, amounts to the way Goliath was handling the situation. He wasn't trying to protect his clan, he was trying to kill the Hunters. Best would have been to stay at the clocktower or go on with their regular business and let the law handle it, as Elisa suggested. If they had to go after the Hunters on their own, Goliath clearly was not in the right frame of mind to do it. He was supposed to be leading the clan, but he barely even paid attention to them in his rage, and that almost got many of them killed. I wonder if Gargoyles have any sort of impeachment process, whereby the second-in-command would take over if the Clan agreed that the leader was unfit to continue leading. Certainly Brooklyn seemed to be more stable than Goliath during Hunter's Moon.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 1:29:32 pm EDT from 153.9.92.48

"We see many times in the series that the gargoyles do get bitter about it all. Lexington, Brooklyn, and Bronx decide to fight back against the refugees and so wind up escalating the situation. Goliath becomes angry enough over Angela's near-death to declare war on the Hunters in a feud that makes the situation worse as well."

If someone is trying to kill you, wouldn't you fight back? This wasn't a land fued like the Hatfields and the McCoys. This was a war initiated by the Hunters making an unprovoked attack on Goliath's clan with the clear goal of exterminating them. How on earth could anyone - gargoyle or human - placed in such a situation be expected to remain passive?

72 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 12:40:29 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Sorry for the double post, but I'm flipping out cuz I was just offered a zookeeping position in the Bird Department at the St Louis Zoo. So excited. I've been working towards this for years! Good news. I'm happy.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 10:49:56 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Todd> Great points and fortunatly i'm sure it'll be the kind of stuff we'll see developed in the comic in a couple months.

HofEyes> We also have to remember that some generations of Hunters, like Jason, Robyn and Jon's grandfather, hunted for Demona all their life and never found her. Obviously a large part of their hatred is passed down as a kind of word-of-mouth mythology since not every generation faces Demona, and probably some Hunters that do face her die leaving young orphans behind.

It all kinda reminds me of Macbeth mistakenly referring to Demona as the Queen of the Gargoyles. I'm sure "The Demon" holds a similiar status in the minds of the Hunters. All gargoyles are evil, but she is the worst, their leader or their god.

I wonder how the Hunters would treat an English gargoyle assuming they encountered them at all. Since they resemble heraldry beasts would they still see them as evil and demons? It'd be interesting to see how much is based on looks.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 9:48:39 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Todd> Very goods points man!

Matt> I can't picture the Hunters as heroes on any level, though I'm sure they think of themselves that way. I don't think they foiled many of Demona's plans to wipe out humanity because I think she spent most of those centuries gathering the tools and materials she'd need for her ultimate plans, such as the Praying Gargoyle, the Grimorum, etc. She has probably spent a great deal of time trying to figure out how to break the curse on Goliath and company (and I agree that she views them as the traitors, not herself). She no doubt did much harm to humans during that time, but nothing quite on the same scale as what she did in City of Stone or Hunter's Moon.
The hunters only care about their own personal revenge and vendettas against Demona, and care little for the people, human or gargoyle, who get caught in the crossfire. They have hunted her for so long they don't even recall how their sick family tradition even started, and I'm sure that while jason Canmore showed regret for the people he hurt, I doubt his ancestors shared the same sentiments. The Canmores who followed after Duncan senior and Duncan Jr. saw their actions in a "Ends Justifies The Means" sort of way.
Though of course, neither side ever considered that every action they make in their fued adds fuel to the fire. I feel sorry for the Canmore kids loosing their father, but the man asked for it. Charles probably had no experience fighting gargoyles til that fateful night and should not have been up there in the first place. Demona killed the man out of self-defense, can't blame her for that, and judging from the flash backs in Hunters Moon, it seems that she rarely sought out the Canmore's herself, but merely delt with each successing Hunter that reared his or her head throughout the centuries. I wonder what happened the mother of the Canmore Trio? Maybe she left them due to her husband's insane thirst for vengeance, or thought he was mad for believing in gargoyles (probably just died of normal causes, never knowing Charles's secret)

Vinnie> Haha, hilarious, but thanks for the link regardless...wise ass...(:
Dragomir
A dose of iron a day keeps the Third Race away!
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 9:38:31 am EDT from 134.241.91.232

That is a good point about the impact that the Hunters made on Demona's attempts to wipe out humanity. Though I'm afraid that that wasn't their primary motive in hunting her. Indeed, the Hunters' own tactics appear to be of the sort that could endanger their own fellow humans - as in, blowing up a police station just to get at the gargoyles - and even when they deliberately made it a surgical strike, the humans below still got injured (Chavez was a definite example of that). Matt also mentioned that, ever since Charles Canmore's death in Paris, his children had been leaving a trail of violence behind them, indicating that their efforts to get rid of Demona had had a "spillover" effect, though we don't learn the details.

Another thought: one strength of how "Gargoyles" handles the human-gargoyle friction is that it doesn't make it into a simple case of "mean-spirited humans persecuting innocent gargoyles". I don't mean just the case of Demona's presence, either. We see many times in the series that the gargoyles do get bitter about it all. Lexington, Brooklyn, and Bronx decide to fight back against the refugees and so wind up escalating the situation. Goliath becomes angry enough over Angela's near-death to declare war on the Hunters in a feud that makes the situation worse as well. The gargoyles' retaliation (not just Demona, again) have probably helped convince many humans that the entire species is evil.

And when you examine the situation still further, the humans' fear of the gargoyles is understandable. Gargoyles are a lot stronger than humans, have natural weaponry in their claws, and, to top it off, frequently look like demons; small wonder that humans are so frightened of them. And how many humans have seen gargoyles when they're not swooping down with eyes blazing and emitting battle-cries? Only a handful (such as Elisa) have seen their home life, gotten to know that there's more to them than savage warfare. Under those circumstances, how surprising is it that they'd respond to gargoyles as they do?

The struggle between humans and gargoyles is not one of a large corrupt empire attempting to destroy a small gentle people. It's one of two communities each living in fear of the other, each seeing the other as a threat to them, and being led by their fears to take an attitude of "We've got to get rid of them before they can get rid of us", with only a few seeing an alternative to that attitude.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 7:58:55 am EDT from 4.244.213.15

Damn, after a post like that, how could I forget my Avatar?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 6:51:26 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

I imagine that the Hunters down through the centuries had the most interaction with Demona. We don't know too much about the activities of the other gargoyle clans, but they were probably keeping a low profile. Certainly, few people in the 20th Century knew about them (including Demona herself). So I think that when a Hunter did encounter a gargoyle, chances are it was usually Demona. They dealt with her enough to give her a nickname. This leads one to believe that the Hunters had been teaching every new generation that "The Demon" was an integral figure in the gargoyle race, the irony there being that Demona was really more of a black sheep. Which makes the history of the Hunters even more tragic.

Matt: Wow. The Hunters just became even more complicated. True, they might have thwarted Demona at times down through the centuries, but on the other hand, we have no idea how many innocent gargoyles they have killed. Even if there were instances where humanity was saved considerable harm, is that enough to justify the Hunters existing? Wonderfully thorny gray issue that you've brought up!

Stormy: Charles's offspring certainly had a good reason to hate Demona, but I'm wondering how many of the others were motivated by hate and how many were motivated by the fact that they considered it their "destiny as Canmores." After my most recent viewing of "Hunter's Moon," I looked upon the Rennaissance Hunter's little outburst as more him being annoyed because he'd tracked Demona for years and then lost her in a few minutes.

And once again, there's great irony in the Hunters reinforcing Demona's beliefs, since she doesn't even know she's the reason they exist. It's darkly amusing just where human life stands with her. The act of scarring a child is less important to her than killing a bug. A passing thing not even worth remembering.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Why do the faithful have such a will to believe in something, and call it the name they choose, having chosen nothing? -Ian Anderson
posted @ Wed, Apr 12, 2006 6:50:46 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Sorry for the double post, had another thought.

You gotta feel bad for the Canmore family. How many family members have they lost to "The Demon" over the centuries and she is still out there. They must feel pissed and they must feel incompetent. Of course, they probably killed a lot of OTHER gargoyles over the years to "even the score."

Sad.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 10:34:54 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Todd> I entirely agree, but I have to wonder... If the Hunter's hadn't been going after Demona all those years, how much better off would she be? How much worse off would humanity be? It's entirely possible that, in an attempt to hide herself from the Hunters, Demona was less likely to outright attack and kill humans. In fact, its also possible that over the years the Hunters have helped thwart Demona's schemes to decimate humanity, like they did in Paris 1920(?) in the story Greg W wrote for Atlantis. Had it not been for the Hunters then, Demona could've caused Paris and humanity some serious damage.

I don't condone the Hunters slaughter of innocent gargoyles, but its hard to argue that they did wrong in their attempts to bring down Demona, esspecially since she is so dangerous.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 10:32:02 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

The Hunters are an excellent example of how hate perpetuates itself.

Jason, Robyn and Jon have a very good reason to hate Demona: she killed their father. Even though she (probably) wouldn't have killed him if he hadn't been hunting her, the fact that she acted in that way only went to prove to the Canmores that their family was justified in hunting "the Demon".

For everything Demona does to the Canmores, she simply reinforces the family reasons to hunt her. And for everything they do to her, they reinforce her belief that humans are scum.
Stormy
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 10:31:17 pm EDT from 142.167.192.77

Thank You Gorebash!! ^_^
kess
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 8:53:24 pm EDT from 68.42.196.10

It's tempting to wonder if a subconscious reason for Jon Canmore/Castaway going after Elisa and Vinnie is more of that self-hatred. Remember that, back when he was (more or less) pro-gargoyle, he had let himself be too easily intimidated by Jason into falling silent after his initial pleas on behalf of Goliath and his clan. Note that Elisa and Vinnie are definitely not doing the same thing; they remain resolute in protecting the gargoyles, and don't give in to any temptations of cowardice. Is it possible that, very deep down inside, so buried within him that he's not conscious of it, Jon sees their bold stands as the exact opposite of his own timid and irresolute behavior, and hates them as a silent rebuke to the way that he behaved back then?

A further tragedy of the Canmore family is this: their pursuit of the gargoyle race was entirely pointless. They weren't after Demona because she was a genocidal maniac plotting to wipe out humanity; they were after her because of a family tradition that was so old that they could no longer remember how it had begun. They were only hunting gargoyles because they'd done so as far back as they could remember. And the initial founders of the family tradition, Duncan and Canmore, were a pair of corrupt and suspicious tyrants who weren't worth emulating or avenging. (In fact, under Duncan and Canmore, the primary object of the Hunt wasn't even to battle gargoyles, but to wipe out a rival human family in a struggle over the succession to the Scottish throne.) Charles Canmore had given his life in vain for a pointless custom that should have been abandoned long ago.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 6:54:34 pm EDT from 4.244.209.13

Vinnie> You can use me in a joke if you want, just be sure to put a copyright symbol after my name. : )

HofEyes> I think that what bugs Demona about the Manhattan Clan even more than the fact that Goliath has corrupted them is the fact that Demona feels totally betrayed by Goliath and the Clan. She can't understand how they can still protect humans after the whole Wyvern debacle. She can't understand how, in her mind, they just seemed to have forgotten what happened. So she feels that they are betraying the Clan, betraying them even though they are dead. This is what she tried to preach to Coldstone and Angela at different times. And remember that in Gargoyle Clans, betrayal is a major felony, punishable by banishment.

John Castaway> I think HofEyes has hit a good point. He was willing to kill Elisa and Vinnie because they had betrayed their own kind in the Human-Gargoyle war, this precisely parallels Demona's view of gargoyles who support the humans.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 6:15:27 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Vinnie: Next time you want to use me in a joke like that, please ask first.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
END OF LINE.
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 5:56:51 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Todd: Hell, I'm waiting for the ramble on "The Reckoning." I'm definitely gonna chip in my two cents on that one, since it's one of my favorites.

Dragomir: I think Demona's main problem with the Manhattan gargoyles is she feels Goliath has corrupted them. I don't think Demona has much love for gargoyles that try to reach out to humans, much like Castaway will probably have little love for humans that do likewise.

And honestly, I wouldn't consider either Demona or Castaway to be stable. Demona is projecting onto the entire human race because she can't face responsibility for her own sins. That's pretty much what Castaway is doing as well.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
END OF LINE.
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 5:55:13 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Dragomir:<I've read that in real life animal hybrids are usually incapable of having offspring, but don't know if this would apply to Mutates.>
Here's a little article I found about natural hybrids, which demonstrates that the genetics in such cases is not yet fully understood:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/28/1062050609625.html

< I do care because I liked what the guy had to say and it pisses me off that I was actually exchnaging posts with a guy I dislike. Excuse me for asking a simple question, sigh.> ;) You know I also happen to be Matt, Todd Jensen, Harvester of Eyes, Wingless, and Warcrafter. And if you believe that I've got a nice piece of bridge to sell you on the sun. ROTFL! ;) I can't believe anyone feel for that. All you have to do is compare our IP adresses to know for sure.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Nazi Germany was the first nation to enact anti-smoking laws. So fight Nazism by supporting your local smoker!
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 5:53:57 pm EDT from 69.54.209.37

Only have time to do the countdown today...

73 days left until The Gathering 2006 in Valencia, California!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2006]
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 5:32:55 pm EDT from 66.72.192.110

Just a heads up that I've implemented some very basic spam filters on the chat room (as well as here) which will generate an error if you try to stick anchor tags in it. This is to help with the proliferation of spam in the chat rooms. Hopefully it'll help.
Gorebash
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 5:01:47 pm EDT from 207.206.239.231

WarCrafter> happy Birthday dude, and have fun at the Gathering! I could never drag my father to a convention like that, he's not really the sci-fi or fantasy type (but I love him regardless). Been trying to get him to watch one of my anime series for ages...Vampire Hunter D: BloodLust.

Matt> I do care because I liked what the guy had to say and it pisses me off that I was actually exchnaging posts with a guy I dislike. Excuse me for asking a simple question, sigh.

Everyone> I agree that Demona's level of madness is not as severe as Castaway's, meaning she is obsessed with her vendetta, but not to the point at which she is a blubbering nut job, and therefore not capable of thinking rationally at any level. We can't rely on what we saw of Castaway in most of the The G Chronicles except for The Journey, but I do believe him to be a raving, hate mongering lunatic. Sorry for bringing up hitler again, but when Castaway gave his speech to his followers it did remind me of an old newsreel of Hitler I saw in History Class, I don't picture this guy EVER letting go of his hatred and he seems to be in constant state of teetering into hysteria.
also, Demona's vendetta seems more sensible to me because while she is responsible for the wyvern massacre, she did not actually slay or harm her kindred personally (we have yet to know if she has ever really killed a fellow garg with her own hands). Plus, to be perfectly honest, if your species was on the verge of extinction, wouldn't you try to take out the guys responsible for it? Or at least that how she justifies her actions. And to avenge herself of course, thinks she'll feel better about herself once humanity is gone no doubt, in a way she probably views it as redeeming herself for the massacre (though she constantly tells herself it wasn't her fault in any way no matter how large or small).
Castaway has no legitimate reason for killing all gargoyles at all, he's just in denial of being the one who shot and injured his brother. Before he only wanted Demona dead for killing his father, now he's out to kill all gargs to satisfy some delusion he's set up to excuse himself for shooting Jason and leaving him to die. Castaway is definately a weaker person than his brother, and has an extremely fragile psyche, doesn't take much to push him over the edge. I feel that while Demona's redemption maybe a far way off in the series, its more likely to happen than jon's, he needs mental help, not an epiphany. I wonder how he would react if he learned that Demona is immortal, meaning that the Canmore family's attempts to hunt and kill Demona for so long were absolutely futile (shiver...would not want to be present).
Dragomir
"Okay, okay, I'm going to count to three and when I open my eye I expect the guilty party who stole my other eye to step forward," declares Odin as he shuts his one good eyeball. Harvester and Puck smile mischievously as they quickly push a startled Raven forward.
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 12:27:38 pm EDT from 134.241.91.143

Hey, does anyone know who moderates the chat room for S8. The spammers are killing us. Today it's especially bad.
Pearl
a very upset garg
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 8:58:05 am EDT from 216.163.246.1

HARVESTER - Thanks. I remember asking Greg about it; he replied that he didn't know whether those parallels were conscious or not, though I'm certain that he also likes them. I'd really like to see his ramble on "The Journey"; pity that it's still some ways off.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 7:47:31 am EDT from 4.244.215.118

Todd: Weisman. In my posts, I refer to Bishansky as Greg B., and Greg Weisman as just Greg. Actually, this is the first time anyone's been confused. But anyway, I'm pretty sure I remember seeing the topic somewhere in ASK GREG.

Gorebash: I think the seed is there. It's the reason she chose to save a young Macbeth. But in the 1,000 years since then, she's probably buried it extremely well. Also, from what I gathered from the discussion in here a few weeks ago, Demona has some sort of profound realization or something similar in the course of Gargoyles 2198.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
END OF LINE.
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 5:49:23 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Warcrafter - Sounds like you have a pretty cool Dad. Then again, I"m almost his age... I'm 40 (cough, cough)
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 5:10:14 am EDT from 70.27.173.206

Matt> I just turned 17 on April 3 and my dad is 42
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD........DON'T THINK ABOUT PINK ELEPHANTS!!!!!!!
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 2:17:29 am EDT from 69.234.6.13

Just curious, Warcrafter, how old are you? How old is your dad?
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Tue, Apr 11, 2006 1:48:36 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

(checks through the posts to see what's going on)

Anyways, this may have nothing to do with what's going on now but, I recently found out that my dad used to watch Gargoyles in the 90s. When I heard this I was like, Oh My God!!!! Even though he said he only saw about 50 episodes, that gives us a bigger chance of going to our first gathering this year. And when I also told him that many of the voice actors had roles for Star Trek (Since my dad is a nerd for Star Trek) that makes it all the sweeter so he said it sounds like something we can do. I say I have about a 85% chance of going to my very first gathering this year.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD........DON'T THINK ABOUT PINK ELEPHANTS!!!!!!!
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 11:09:43 pm EDT from 69.234.6.13

Matt> lol, true! One source of madness is anger, truly.
Jade Griffin
Weee! Foood!
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 10:20:22 pm EDT from 71.83.112.202

MATT> Yep, right here...

4) Do the Canmores (at least the ones descended from Jon) still hunt Demona in 2198?

4. There are no more Canmores, at least not of that line. But the Castaways still hunt her. Her and all gargoyles through the Quarrymen.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 9:50:31 pm EDT from 65.33.202.237

Jade Griffin> I think Demona is mad/angry as well as mad scientist! : )

Dragomir> "Does anyone know if Vinnie was serious about being Demonic Lover?"
- Does anyone care?

Christine> Cute pics! Guess if I decide to do the Lex costume I won't be the first. Maybe I'll do the other gargoyle we saw at Wyvern that had a smiliar wing structure...

Greg B> Do you have a link or quote from Greg W saying that it is indeed Castaway's descendents that are carrying on the Quarrymen in 2198? I don't recall ever hearing that.
I think this HAS been covered, but Jon, Robyn and Jason were the last Hunters right? I mean, there won't be anymore Hunters after them, just Quarrymen, right?

Todd> Great points about Castaway's speech in "The Journey". Wonderful parallels.

I suppose we could all agree that while Jon and Demona make great parallels in the series, they are not identical.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 9:43:33 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

HARVESTER - Which Greg? Weisman or Bishansky?
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 8:26:07 pm EDT from 4.244.210.16

Todd: I think Greg has mentioned the "alone" parallel.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Well I'm one with the living and I'm feeling just fine. I know just what I've gotta do: play the game of happiness and never let on that it only lives on in a song."
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 7:53:07 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Anon> To me, there is a difference between 'insanity' and 'mad'. Mad people can be reasoned with and insane people cannot. I do believe Demona has the capacity to get out of the mental loop she herself put her in, but imo, Jon Canmore does not. To me, he is insane, and she's simply mad (as in mad scientist, not mad/angry)
Jade Griffin
Weee! Foood!
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 7:24:54 pm EDT from 71.83.112.202

On the subject of Jon Canmore/Castaway's parallels with Demona: perhaps one of the juiciest moments there is in "The Journey" when he's giving his recruitment speech for the Quarrymen, and keeps on talking about how his audience feels so "alone", but if they join the Quarrymen, they will not be "alone" again. The fact that he uses the word "alone" so often is truly significant when we remember where else we heard that word in "Gargoyles" - and who said it then.

Also, there's the part where he lists the specific fears that his audience has about gargoyles. First, that the gargoyles might attack them while they sleep. Gargoyles obviously have a similar fear that humans will attack them while they're in stone sleep. Then, the fear that the gargoyles might carry off their children. Remember in "The Reckoning" where Demona views Princess Katharine's rescue of the eggs and taking them to Avalon as a kidnapping.

I don't think that those elements in Castaway's speech were a coincidence (though obviously he wouldn't be aware of the deeper significance about them).
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 7:21:09 pm EDT from 4.244.18.29

slight update on the gargoyle webcomic. Will have issue #2 up this weekend. We are running a week behind. Sorry about that.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 6:27:58 pm EDT from 209.178.145.55

And once more, time to quote Greg:

Todd writes:

2. A query about Jon Canmore/Castaway. When I first saw "Hunter's Moon", I was very distressed at the way that the initially most sympathetic Hunter wound up turning into an insane gargoyle-hater at the end. But then, after watching it a few more times and studying Jon's actions, I found myself wondering if his fall from grace hadn't actually been carefully prepared for. His suggestions to his siblings that maybe Goliath and his clan weren't evil had a rather half-hearted feel to them and he allowed Jason to easily quell them. He spared the clan at the ruins of the clock tower, but THEN proceeded to publicly frame them on the news at Jason and Robyn's request, without (as far as could be told) protesting about trying to turn the public against the gargs, now that he knew that they weren't the monsters that the other Hunters believed them to be. During the fight at the dam, Jon was just standing around looking miserable, while Elisa was making an active attempt to get Jason and Goliath to stop their feud. In fact, Jon's only pro-gargoyle action was a negative one (not killing them at the clock tower), whereas Elisa and Jason (after he finally saw the light) took a much more active stance (Jason actually taking a shot for Goliath in the cathedral) in trying to stop the slaughter. (Not to mention that, in "The Journey", Vinnie also actively resisted Castaway's efforts to kill Goliath and Elisa). So.... am I reading too much into this, or was Jon's rather passive behavior during his "pro-gargoyle" behavior purposely designed that way, to show that he was weak = (to fit in with his transformation into Castaway)?

Greg responds:

2. Todd, people are going to start to think that either (a) I'm paying you to write this stuff or (b) you actually are me writing under a pseudonym. Again, you're dead-on correct. Jason was a strong man. Strong in his prejudice. Strong in his resolve to change once he came to that conclusion. Jon was a weak man. I'm gonna botch this quotation about the banality of evil, but it goes something like, "All it takes for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing." That's Jon Canmore. I hope we built him so that his transformation -- though shocking and tragic -- was believable. If you're any indication, then I did my job.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 6:26:03 pm EDT from 65.33.202.237

Canmore's attitude in "Hunter's Moon": I'm going to have to try and dig up HM on tape and rewatch these 3 episodes. My memory is far from perfect. But my take on him through HM was that he didn't have a "killer instinct". He was raised to believe gargoyles were bad things. His dad taught him while he was young (speculation on my part, but fair speculation I think) then he sees his father die. Now he's got Jason and Robyn to help build up that hate as he matures. But I don't think he was a killer. That's why he came off a bit "soft" in HM. But the hate is still there. By "The Journey" that hate has been strengthened by what's happened to his family (Jason in particular) and it's remanifested and focused to become the force behind the Quarrymen.

My point about the mosquito bit earlier was to mean Canmore holds no value, at all, anywhere in his soul, for the life of gargoyles. Whereas I believe Demona does have a small seed in her soul which does hold value for human life. Perhaps it's just gargoyle instinct and you can debate whether or not you can call that a part of her soul, but it's there.

Can either be redeemed? Anything's possible; you have to allow that. But Demona's redeption will be a lot more difficult and a lot more complex than anything Canmore would go through.

Katherine holds this contempt and hatred for gargoyles the whole time she's at Wyvern. Then the viking attack... etc.. and she redeems herself by taking care of the eggs and raising them. Canmore's redemption, were there to be one, would probably be similarly simple (relatively speaking).

Demona's sins are far deeper and more complex than Canmore's. I don't think you will ever see any sort of "resitution" made on her part. I think her redemption comes from something different, like accepting what she has done and forgiving herself. If that hasn't happend in the last thousand years I'm not sure it ever will. But as I said, anything's possible.
Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 5:52:46 pm EDT from 207.206.245.225

Todd: It might conceivably have ended back on the dam. On my most recent watching of "Hunter's Moon" (which was with a fresh set of eyes after various conversations and readings of reviews), I was amazed at how Scott Cleverdon read the words "I wish." He might have been able to stop it, but was so weak he didn't even want to try. Once again, great testament to the show's voice talent, who could usually cram quite a bit into one or two words.

It's funny. One can make parallels between Jason Canmore and Goliath as easily as one can do it between Demona and Jon. If we do see the Double Date story, it could be really interesting if Jason is the fourth party.


Concerning redemption: I do think that Demona has one major advantage over John Castaway, and that's immortality. Castaway's got a limited time to redeem himself, which is unlikely, given what a wimp he is.

I think it's ironic that Demona will most likely use the Quarrymen as a major argument for "humans will never accept gargoyles and must therefore die," when in a roundabout way she helped bring them into existence. She served as the catalyst that brought about the first Hunter back in the 10th Century, and then many many generations later, we get the three children of Charles Canmore (most notably Jon).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Well I'm one with the living and I'm feeling just fine. I know just what I've gotta do: play the game of happiness and never let on that it only lives on in a song."
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 5:43:37 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Jon Canmore: While I think most people can, in some way, be redeemed (barring the extremely mentally ill, like some criminals in Kingston Pen, who for reasons of their mental state cannot think rationally or non-violently), for story purposes I don't think they SHOULD all be redeemed.

In fact, in RL, many people are NOT redeemed...they don't want to see the error of their ways or they cannot understand that their ways are wrong.

At the end of City of Stone, and when meeting Angela, you get the idea that Demona wishes things could have been different. Whether she realizes that she has the power to make them different if she accepts her responsibility remains to be seen.

I think Jon Canmore is not someone who CAN'T be redeemed but someone who is a tragic figure because he WON'T Be reconciled with his siblings before his death (at least, that's my opinion...who is to know what Greg will do....)
Stormy
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 4:23:09 pm EDT from 142.167.194.125

Actually Demona is insane. Even GW had said it. But, as he said, there is a lot of "insanes". Let´s check, basicly, insane is someone that has lost his/her ability to see whats good and whats wrong. Demona thinks that killing humans is actually...great. Its something that must be done for the goods of all the gargoyles. And why dont admmit it, she has a point. She ws responsable for her clans death, but what about all the other clans around the world, what about the millions of gargoyles that were around post/humans period. The problems is that she cannot see that there are good humans too. That on our side there are Macbeths and Elisas, and Xanatoeses ( he used the gargoyles, but he also used humans. These guy treth gargoyles as equals, that why i love him ;)) Thats what makes her in some point insane. Phsycos are insane, but they think like rational people. Think and act like normal doesnt mean you dont have a crazy phsyco/depressive insade you. A suicide person is another example. They think when they are about to jump from a building, and when they take the gun from the desk and when they take tablets or poison, but that doesnt make that something rational.
And for Canmore...it was sad, but i hate him anyway.
Anonymous
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 3:15:08 pm EDT from 200.32.110.239

JADE GRIFFIN> Greg has confirmed that they are one and the same ages ago.

ANd to be fair, we've only seen one Castaway story "The Journey". I expect the comic book to give him more characterization
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 2:42:28 pm EDT from 65.33.202.237

Also, if Canmore really is Castaway, which I still don't understand by the way, then the biggest difference to me is that Demona isn't insane. Mad with grief and guilt perhaps, but she isn't insane. She makes decisions with coolness, almost with calculatory glee. She is cognizant in all her actions. I don't see that in Castaway, but I do in Canmore, initially. So to me, they are two diff. personalities. Perhaps Castaway is then a split persona based off of the Canmore dad (Jon's dad) Makes me wonder about Robin actually lol.
Jade Griffin
Weee! Foood!
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 2:39:54 pm EDT from 71.83.112.202

Just remember, according to Greg, Castaway's descendents still lead the Quarrymen in 2198.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Each year, the Rainforest is responsible for over three thousand deaths from accidents, attacks or illnesses. There are over seven hundred things in the Rainforest that cause cancer. Join the fight now and help stop the Rainforest before it's too late.
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 2:17:20 pm EDT from 65.33.202.237

Oops, sorry guys, last post was me. My computer is on the fritz, lol.

Does anyone know if Vinnie was serious about being Demonic Lover?
Dragomir
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for her adoring fans!
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 1:55:35 pm EDT from 71.192.76.212

I agree that Demona and Castawy paralelle eachother in some ways, but Demona definately doesn't think of humans as mere mosquitoes. She thinks lowly of them thats for sure, but recognizes them as a serious threat to the continuation of her species. She has spent the entire series trying to convince the other gargoyles that humans are their mortal enemies and that they must be destroyed if they are to survive. She is trying to cover up her own guilt by doing this, but at the same time belives that she is doing the right thing (half truths, like Goliath said). I definately don't see Castaway redeeming himself at all, I think shooting his big brother pushed him over the point of no return, he's quite possibly even more insane and irrational than Demona (though maybe I'm just recalling how he acted during the G Chronicles, ugh, such crap). Its not impossible for him to change of coure, but I don't think Greg W plans to have Castaway's life end happily ever after.
Anonymous
"Don't hate me because I'm devious," Demona cues as she strikes an enticing pose for her adoring fans!
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 1:54:13 pm EDT from 71.192.76.212

I'm not really seeing the Canmore equates gargoyles with insects parallel. Jon knows the gargoyles are sentient beings-a far cry from a mosquito.
And in HM2 he actually tried to convince jason that the gargs weren't evil.
I think he parallels Demona a lot in fact...he blames the gargoyles for his own actions in paralyzing his brother-and he's had a traumatic past (watching his father getting killed by a gargoyle at a very young age). Jon knows that garogyles are very powerful and formidable (hence the heavy ranks of quarrymen and weapons)

In fact, I think it's Demona who views the humans as if they were insects-when she scratches Gil's face in CoS, it's as significant an action for her as swatting a fly.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 12:16:07 pm EDT from 205.188.117.68

Wingless> Like I said, I believe everyone CAN be reformed, the real question is whether they make that choice.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 12:04:41 pm EDT from 150.201.114.132

Hehe, it amazes me how after over 12 years, we can still have discussions like this over the series.

"if one can be redeemed so to the other" That's not something I've seen in the world. Maybe in the Gargoyles universe, but in the real world, that doesn't happen often. I think we all know that. I could cite many instances of people in prison, who have been let out and returned there-who were supposedly "Reformed" Canada's Justice system is notorious for that. Millions of people seem to be able to go through life every day without hurting anyone - while others can't manage to go a day without causing trouble. Near London, Ontario, Canada(not close to me, but still close enough) there was just a mass murder of 8 men-likely gang related. Pretty scary stuff. Do you think the people responsible for that can be reformed? I highly doubt it.

As for Demona & Jon... I don't know. I'm not saying some people can't be reformed, but it will likely take a mighty big reality shock to the system to turn them around-to make them both step back and really see what they've been doing.
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 11:40:37 am EDT from 70.27.173.206

Well said, Gore.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 11:40:03 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Is Canmore being to gargoyles what Demona is to humans? If so, if you're willing to match them up, then if one can be redeemed so to the other.

Problem is I don't buy the idea that Demona and Canmore represent the same .. "personal issues"(?). I think Canmore was raised to hate and knows nothing else. I think his mind and character problems are much more simple than Demona's. All you have to do is look at Demona's actions with MacBeth to see that there is some part of her that wants to do right, even if the stronger half of her will despises it. I think that seed of "good" offers more "hope" for Demona to be "saved" but at the same time makes her a tougher nut to crack. What I mean is she's become perhaps the greatest expert in the history of history at denial. She's have over a thousand years to learn how to suppress that good seed. So much so that were you to find a crack in her defenses and try to cultivate it, she'd immediately recognize it and suppress even further.

Canmore, on the other hand, could probably "come to" rather quickly given the right circumstances. He isn't the pro that Demona is in denial.

I think it's an interesting idea to say Canmore doesn't have the strength of character to recognize his problems and face them. If he doesn't have it now.. can he get that strength in the future or is he doomed to remain weak in character? And how would you define that strength?

I think he's already got it. I think Canmore's problem is he doesn't see Gargoyles as people but as pests.. along the line of mosquitos (really big ones). There's no more a moral question to killing a gargoyle than there is to killing a mosquito. He needs to first see gargoyles as people or human or .. whatever the word is.. (significant life?). He might be closer to Princess Katherine than Demona in that respect.

Of course then you turn things around a bit and ask does Demona need to see humans as .. gargoyles(? significant life?). No. Demona's more complicated (much more). Humans aren't her problem. She's projecting her own problems on humans. If she killed off all the humans her problem would remain.
Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 11:12:45 am EDT from 207.206.247.237

Wow, the week is young and already someone brought up Hitler...

Keep in mind that everyone CAN be redeemed. Whether they will be or will choose to be is another matter. Castaway will not repent any time soon, but who knows what the future will hold. he people who claim that Demona should be or will be redeemed soon annoy me, but the people who say Demona is beyond redeemtion annoy me almost as much. Everyone can make a choice to own up to their mistakes. To have a little integrity. Its hard, but anyone can do it. Jon can be redeemed, and maybe he will, but not yet.
Matt - [Cape Girardeau, MIssouri, USA]
"It isn`t premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." - Drew Carey
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 10:45:44 am EDT from 150.201.114.132

Battle Beast-Who caused Jason Canmore's injury? That would be Jon. Just like Demona was largely responsible for the massacre on the Castle. Sure, she is not the one that smashed her own clan, but it was her plan to have the vikings come back during the day. She had the chance to say something and didn't. John Also had the choice of pulling the trigger which wounded his brother-that wasn't his intention, but to blame the gargoyles for it? Of course, that's exactly the parallel that the series was to bring out. Both Jon & Demona are unable to face the responsibility of their own actions. In Jon's case it was sad, since he was the one who was really beginning to see the truth about the gargoyles and trying to convince Jason and Robin how wrong they were. In the end, Jon is the one who mentally goes over the edge.
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 10:30:44 am EDT from 70.27.173.206

Jon Canmore/Castaway saw his father murdered and his brother paralized; I doubt if he could be turned back to th3e good side.

Could someone talk hittler out of killing Jewsish people? I don't think so.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 10:05:31 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Castaway: No, I don't see him having any redemption. Just as it would (will?) take Demona 1,000+ plus years to redeem herself, Castaway/Canmore will be a Gargoyle hater to the very end.

Slight off-topic pondering, has anyone else made someone a fan? My significant other was never a fan until watching the DVDs. :-P It feels kind of nice that I had a part in helping enlarge the fanbase, if only slightly.
King Cobra3 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 10:03:37 am EDT from 209.239.132.219

Everyone> Wow! Those were some awesome posts we made last week aye folks? Lol, thanks for all the great responses guys. Thanks to you I am now a wiser, but still quite psychotic, garg fan, mahahaha! I understand that time loop stuff now, and i get everything that happened in Avalon as well. By the way, thanks Matt for what you said at the end of your last post to me, thanks! Glad I'm helping to keep Greg W's question load to reasonable levels.

Todd Jenson> Yeah, I can't picture John Castaway sitting down with Goliath for civilized conversation anytime soon, lol. He won't stop until either all gargoyles are destroyed, or until he himself is destroyed in the process (or Talon throws him in a cell with Fang, lol, I'de love to see them fight over who gets the top bunk). I wonder if an encounter with one of his siblings, such as the bro he hurt, would help at all, or just push him over the edge?

Everyone again> I posted this last week, but didn't get many responses (probably in the archives, better go check after I post this...). I wonder if Mutates can have children? They still possess some aspects of their human anatomy, but with all that animal DNA in there it may have rendered them barren or sterile. I've read that in real life animal hybrids are usually incapable of having offspring, but don't know if this would apply to Mutates. Then again, Xanatos and Sevarius probably wouldn't have wanted their little lab rats to go off and start a population of mutates they couldn't control, though its hard for me to picture Xanatos ordering Sevarius to rob the mutates of their ability to give birth (too cruel, even for him). Then again, Maggie probably wouldn't want to have children until she regained her human form, which I believe she still wants very badly.
Dragomir
Trust is hard to build, but easy to destroy
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 8:45:49 am EDT from 134.241.91.141

Has anybody noticed that, while there is plenty of discussion over whether Demona can be redeemed, nobody ever seems to raise the question over whether Jon Canmore/Castaway can also be cured of his hatred?

Maybe it's not so surprising, of course. Jon was introduced very near the end of the series, so we didn't get to know him as well as we did Demona (who was introduced in the very first episode). And also, we've had the misfortune of seeing Castaway mainly in the Goliath Chronicles which weakened his characterization to little more than a one-dimensional hatemonger and omitted the motives set up for him in "Hunter's Moon".

(For my own part, I doubt that Jon Canmore/Castaway will be receiving any epiphanies. Certainly not any time soon - for one thing, he was just getting started - but also because even before he went berserk, he'd been a lukewarm supporter of the gargoyles. He always backed down without much of a struggle whenever Jason glowered at him, and even publicly framed the clan on the news for blowing up the clock tower without even a hint of a protest. I seriously doubt that he has the strength of character to see the error of his ways.)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 7:44:15 am EDT from 4.244.212.176

PGF: I'm tempted to write another review on amazon.ca to comment on the picture quality of the DVD. Because I haven't noticed anything wrong, either. Looks just as good as Season One.

And if things don't pick up, I might try reposting that topic I attempted to start last week. Ah, what the hell, I'll just copy and paste.

Something I've been wondering, being a music collector. What sorts of music do people suppose that the gargoyles like, if they like any? Brooklyn strikes me as the type who would really be into punk and metal. I can imagine Lexington being a fan of more progressive music, such as Yes, Brian Eno, or Radiohead. If Hudson developed a taste for any music, I think it would be Celtic. Angela strikes me as someone who would enjoy either folk, modern rock, or both. And I'm unsure on Goliath and Hudson.

But as far as I know, musical tastes were addressed in only one episode, and that was pretty vague (if I'm wrong about that estimate, someone please correct me). Brooklyn seemed to like the guitar, though.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
END OF LINE.
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 6:20:06 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

10th! HAHA.

Does anybody know what became of the low sales of the Season 2 DVD??
Coma-man
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 5:04:07 am EDT from 84.191.240.96

The slots for Fan Panelists for the Gathering 2006 are filling up fast, but the following panels are still in need of volunteers:

* My First Con
* Making Music Videos
* Costuming and Make-Up Basics
* Cosplay Tips, Tricks and Etiquette
* Gargoyle Biology, Anatomy and Physiology
* Gargoyle Psychology, Society and Culture
* Sexuality and Reproduction
* Writing the Erotic Scene
* Drawing the Erotic Scene

Don't be shy and leave me all alone on the smutty panels, folks!

Drop me an e-mail at christine@sabledrake.com to sign up!
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 3:54:36 am EDT from 70.56.94.10

9th
Kris - [Ontario, Canada]
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 3:46:03 am EDT from 24.137.192.172

<< Random question: Has anyone ever done a Lexington costume for the Gathering's cosplay? Or a gargoyle with his wing structure anyway? If so, any pictures? >>

Matt -- for Becca's first Gathering (Dallas, all those years ago), she went as Lex. The moment in which she got to show Thom Adcox her costume will always be one of my favorite con memories.

http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/g99_p23.jpg
http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/g99_p24.jpg

God ... she was FOUR YEARS OLD then ... what happened? Where did the time go?
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 3:09:45 am EDT from 70.56.94.10

Top 10, it looks like.
Marty Lund - [creaturecomics@comcast.net]
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 2:24:16 am EDT from 68.230.66.98

6!!
The Winged Vampire - [The_Winged_Vampire@hotmail.com]
Jalapena do I have a headache.
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 1:53:28 am EDT from 209.74.24.217

Fifth!
Kythera of Anevern
"Live for glory, strength and fury; play your part in the greater scheme of life and nautre"
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 12:28:00 am EDT from 24.126.11.109

I sense a slow week...

I just read the most recent customer review on amazon-wow it pisses me off...
He gave it one star!! and even though he likes the show, he just bitches at the poor quality of the DVD. UH, I don't notice anything wrong with it, and I've watched it multiple times...did he ever stop to think that maybe it's his player, or one bad DVD before making that dumbass review??

I'm ok with people voicing on their opinions if they don't like the show- but posting a bad review on the main DVD selling website because the image quaility isn't "perfection" is just retarted.
I just hope no one sees that and decides not to buy it.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 12:27:14 am EDT from 152.163.100.14

DAmn time zones!

4th!
Chameleongirl - [<-- Come to the Gathering!]
Chameleon may change her spots, but she refuses to do plaid
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 12:26:41 am EDT from 202.87.162.31

3rd!!
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 12:20:03 am EDT from 63.232.248.188

2nd!
oops almost forgot...
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
Pimpin' my DA gallery
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 12:16:42 am EDT from 152.163.100.14

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, WHERE IS EVERYONE. I DON'T WANT TO BE ALONE. I.....CANT......TAKE.......IT.......ANYMORE..........AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (faints)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 12:11:34 am EDT from 69.234.6.13

uh..........i would of expected a 2nd by now
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 12:06:36 am EDT from 69.234.6.13

1st
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"For me to poop on!" - Triumph the insult comic dog
posted @ Mon, Apr 10, 2006 12:00:14 am EDT from 69.234.6.13