Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Wow, Greg, thanks for stopping by! I didn't expect an "official" answer from you ;) And I didn't realize Elisa knew so early. Like Purplegoldfish said, it makes the rest of the series seem that much more painful for her, feeling the way she does but not knowing how to deal with it.

While I'm on the subject of Elisa and Goliath, I remembered a few other observations I made recently about them in my livejournal, one night when I was watching Gargoyles instead of doing my homework. I've watched HM a million times by now, but I always find new things to think about.

Anyway, the first thing I noticed is in HM1, during the scene on the subway. After Goliath dispatches the muggers, Elisa goes to him, lays her head down on his chest, and says, "Nobody messes with my best friend." (I always thought that was kind of a dangerous thing to say in public, although sweet.) But I noticed the way that Goliath reacts to it. Maybe I never noticed before, or maybe I just don't remember, but he reaches to touch her hair and then stops himself, grimaces, and pulls away. It happens so quickly it's easy to miss it. But something about that aborted gesture of affection really intrigues me.

Did he stop because he thought she wouldn't appreciate the sentiment? Haven't we seen him touch her that way before? It's hard to remember because the two of them get so very few explicitly affectionate moments. There aren't a lot of episodes that deal with them. (The most obvious is The Mirror, but that was so long before this that it's hard to use it as an indication of their relationship now. Although there is that moment, while Demona and Puck are spying on them via the mirror, when Elisa sort of nuzzles her face into Goliath's shoulder. I'd love to know what the conversation was that led her to do *that*...) Their relationship is very clear to the viewer, but it's also very understated. Any romantic moments like that are part of some larger scene, some larger conversation, etc. (I was half convinced, when I was a kid, that it was because Disney didn't want to deal with the xenophilia aspect and they were going to keep dancing around the issue forever. Now I can see that it's in character for them to act that way; both of them know what's going on but they can't admit it, can't act on it because they're certain there's no future in it.) So, while I can think of romantic moments between Goliath and Demona, MacBeth and Gruoch, etc, Goliath and Elisa are much more subtle than that.

So then I went picking through episodes looking for Elisa/Goliath moments. As early as Awakenings 5, we see Elisa take his face in her hands. The closest embrace I can find is in Heritage, after Elisa's disappearance. They both look pretty happy to see each other there, and she doesn't show any reluctance to touch him or be held by him.

So anyway, it could be because he thinks she won't appreciate the gesture. She *has* shied away from discussing their relationship in the past. Or it could be because they're in a train full of people (although, again, she's pretty much given them away to everyone on the train already).

Or it could be because he doesn't want to let himself touch her? Because letting himself caress her hair (the gargoyle equivalent of a kiss, although does Elisa know that?) means pretending, if only for a moment, that they have a relationship? And because he can't stand doing that to himself over and over again? Something to think about, anyway.

The other thing that I noticed was that, although Goliath saw Elisa kiss Jason and heard what she said about her feelings, she doesn't know that. As far as she knows, nothing between them has changed since HM1. Obviously they're both happy to see each other after Jason rescues her (although Goliath is probably happier than Elisa is; she didn't think he was dead). But nothing has happened, to her knowledge, to bring things between them to a head.

So why does she finally decide to admit her feelings to him? Her dialogue doesn't really tell us anything, either. He says, "So... Things have come full circle," and Elisa replies, "Somehow, they always do. You know how I feel about you, right?" She brings it up apropos of nothing. (He doesn't seem startled by it, either. Why is that? I sure as heck was!)

Is it her relationship with Jason? The realization that, even when presented with someone human who seems to be everything she's looking for (at least at first), she still wants Goliath? When offered the normal life she thinks she wants, she still chooses Goliath and the clan, and all the uncertainty and upheaval they imply. Is that it?

It's pathetic, but just thinking about it makes my little romantic heart go pitty-pat. I'm such a nerd ;) Anyway, any thoughts, anyone?
Kaylle
GargoylesDVD.com
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 8:43:19 pm EDT from 24.61.45.54

Sorry for the double post.

That was supposed to be "or" not "of".

*murders the typos*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 6:26:21 pm EDT from 209.239.132.34

Purplegoldfish> Either Jeff Bennett of Thom Adcox. Am I right?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 6:25:00 pm EDT from 209.239.132.34

$3.50 is a really great price, but shipping from Amazon will cost more than that. Same with buying from a store, the gas will cost more than $3 a trip because I don't live anywhere near a comic store. I don't mind that in the short run, but if I'm going to be buying this series in the long run, $8 an issue is a little much. I'd rather buy several at once from Amazon.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 5:17:31 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Jurgan: "Wherever he went after his humiliating defeat, hopefully he didn't tak it too hard. The lass did have a millenium's worth of experience on him."

The lass in question was Demona, who soundly whupped his ass with no real effort on her part. Because she had over 1,000 years of fighting experience on him.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"'Phantom of the Opera' is f**king horrible from start to finish." -Roger Waters
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 5:09:57 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

Jurgan > Yes, you spelled my name right.

$3.50 isn't a lot. Although if I buy the comic before getting the DVDs, I'll be too tempted to read it and spoil things for myself. I'm having enough trouble avoiding Greg's rambles about the episodes!

But if I wait until, say, September 2007, do you think I'll still be able to get back-issues of #1 and #2, etc? I don't have any idea how comics are published, I've never been into them.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 5:01:35 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Vaevictis, or however that was spelled:

None of the clones except Thailog have shown any real mental prowess. Thailog deliberately made them unintelligent so they couldn't betray him as he betrayed Xanatos. With that in mind, I would think that they'd be unable to learn, but Greg has said he intends to have them become educated. Exactly how much potential they have remains to be seen.

I don't know how many copies of issue 1 there are, but you can probably order off amazon, although it may take a while to arrive. But it's only $3.50, so it shouldn't take too long to save up.

Harvester: "Jurgan: I have a quick question. You know that big lavender-skinned gargoyle with the black hair voiced by Keith David? Could you tell me his name, I seem to have forgotten it. ( ;"

Hmmm... nope, it's not coming to me. imdb might know. However, while we're asking each other questions, I'm curious why you called Charles Canmore a "lass." Do you know something we don't?
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 4:58:27 pm EDT from 68.58.196.6

Hmmm, I always thought that Goliath consciously realized it first. Unless a lot of the comments he made throughout the series didn't really count as conscious.

Goldfish: My guess is either Salli Richardson or Jonathon Frakes. Or maybe Keith David.

Kingcobra: I think that Goliath swimming in Puck's vision would count. The whole thing felt real to the degree that Goliath was able to be wounded by falling debris.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"'Phantom of the Opera' is f**king horrible from start to finish." -Roger Waters
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 3:49:50 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

OK sorry, reading the comments about the comic made me think of another question.

Is there a limited number of Comic #1 availible? Can I wait until after I buy the DVDs and save up the money to get issue #1, or do I have to buy it asap before SLG runs out of copies? Are they planning on making back issues available?
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 2:17:37 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Thanks for answering my questions.

I have a third question. I've read that the clones (except Thailog and Delilah) are less intelligent thatn the other gargs. Is this true, and was it genetically programmed in or is it something that they can overcome with education?
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 1:52:05 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Hey I'm still alive! hehe

Goliath and Elisa love: I'm quite surprised to find that Elisa came to the realization so early! Must have been torture for her throughout the whole series.

I'm also surprised that Goliath came to it so late...Just goes to show you-no matter what the species, men are all equally dense when it comes to love, lol ;)

On another topic...Awhile ago I did a little survey while watching through each episode. I wrote down who voiced the "previously on" segments of each one.(why, you ask? Well I was bored-and I'm pathetic) It was just something I never really payed attention to and I was curious as to which character voiced the most segments.

Well someone definitely came on top-anyone want to guess who? (it shouldn't be too hard ;))

Anyway, this lead me to wonder how the system worked...was it planned out-or maybe whoever got to the voice recording studio earliest got to record the "previously" segment? I also kind of wonder why main characters like Demona and Angela didn't do the segment.

anyway, not very important-but just a fun little thing to think about and discuss :)
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
<------ my garg art and other stuff
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 11:49:58 am EDT from 152.163.100.14

Goliath also went swimming in Double Jeopardy and in Hunter's Moon Pt. 3.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 11:46:01 am EDT from 70.245.246.16

Elisa loving Goliath> I tend to agree with Greg W. on this issue.

Vaevictis Asmadi> Well, there was the time when Goliath swam in 'Future Tense' but since it was part of Puck's make-believe illusion, would that really count?

There was also the matter of Goliath diving after Angela in the Loch Ness episode (Dammit, I can't recall the name)...
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 6:50:49 am EDT from 209.239.132.220

I think with Elisa, it would have to be before the start of "The Mirror". Maybe as soon as the end of "Deadly Force".
Greg Weisman
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 6:18:07 am EDT from 68.183.95.134

for Elisa, I think it had to least come to surface (maybe even before then) when Jason kissed in her in Hunter's Moon... and then it was finalized by the Clan's return to the castle..

For Goliath, it might have been as early as Gathering I or late as Hunter's Moon 3. when he smashed the Praying Gargoyle he knew even in death he'd at least be with Elisa.. or maybe I'm just grasping at straws here :p
Starlioness
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 4:03:13 am EDT from 71.212.3.33

I was looking through Ask Greg and came across this question, which I remembered seeing once before.

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1607

FanForLife asks:
I was wondering, when exactly did Goliath actually admit to himself consciously that he was in love with Elisa? Actually said to himself, "I love her?"

Greg responds:
That's a darn good question. I'm sure he hadn't figured it out by "Sentinel". It might, in fact, have been in "Hunter's Moon, Part III" after she returned from the dead. Maybe right after the Praying Gargoyle was smashed. Or maybe after he returned to the castle. It wouldn't surprise me if it was as late as that.

I've always thought that was an interesting question to consider, but tonight I found myself wondering the other side of it. When did Elisa consciously admit she was in love with Goliath? Not that she was necessarily happy about it, but when did she finally come to the realization that her feelings really were that strong? I know she's been attracted to him almost from the beginning, and that she fought the idea that she might feel something more. When do you think she "gave in" and admitted to herself what she was feeling?

Any thoughts, anyone?
Kaylle
GargoylesDVD.com
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 2:46:05 am EDT from 24.61.45.54

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury-- Hmm. I'll have to check my sources on Monday. Last I heard, you pay to download the game, yes, but it was my understanding that once you downloaded it and saved it to the hard drive/memory card/storage device/whatever, that was that. o.O
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
Yea though Wii walk through the valley of the shadow of Sony, I shall fear no PS3...
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 2:10:11 am EDT from 69.244.247.43

Vaevictis Asmadi : Try here http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/images/gargs/
Chameleongirl
Chameleon may changer her spots, but she refuses to do plaid.
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 1:27:22 am EDT from 202.87.162.31

Hello, folks. before I post to Ask Greg itself, I have two questions for fellow fans. These may seem like dumb questions but I have not seen the show since I was a little kid... I haven't got the DVD yet.

1. Can gargoyles swim? (other than the Loch Ness clan) Were there any episodes in which the gargoyles were in water?

2. Is there a gallery somewhere of those avatars? I can't remember what all the characters look like, especially the obscure ones like the clones, Elisa as a gargoyle, and the gargs as humans.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 1:06:20 am EDT from 69.81.211.193

S2V2> I guess I forgot to end my thought with this question: How many of you would be interested in a preorder method to get the rest of the show, even if it did end up costing $50 or more?

dph> We don't need to know what Disney's required numbers to produce S2V2 would be--Disney would set those. With a preorder campaign like AnimEigo ran, the sales figures from S2V1 would be irrelevant as to whether or not they would put out S2V2. Since all the sales would be guaranteed by running a preorder campaign, it wouldn't matter one iota how well the previous volumes sold.

Kythera> You made me bust out my Genesis. Wow, Gargoyles is tough after not playing it in several years.
From what I've heard, Nintendo has the rights to release all NES, SNES, Genesis (don't know about any other Sega systems), and Turbo Grafx 16 games on the Wii (can't imagine why this wouldn't include Gargoyles (wonder if the SNES version that never made it to market will be available)). It would be kinda cool if they have the games that never got released in the US, too. Unfortunately, I've also heard that they will only make them available online, and you'll have to pay a fee to play them online (kinda like how, from my understanding, Gametap works). If they released them for sale on disc, I would buy the system just for that.

Harvester> Yes, the Cowboy Bebop DVD's have chapter breaks between each act.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music selection: The Never Ending Story OST
posted @ Sun, Oct 1, 2006 12:45:27 am EDT from 4.230.255.139

Jurgan: I have a quick question. You know that big lavender-skinned gargoyle with the black hair voiced by Keith David? Could you tell me his name, I seem to have forgotten it. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes
Can't clowns and pirates just TRY to get along?
posted @ Sat, Sep 30, 2006 9:22:33 pm EDT from 69.175.16.172

How's this for a plug? "Wizard" mag, 181, has a little sidebar called "Get 'Em Hooked." This month's is five titles to get teenagers turned on to comics, and Gargoyles is listed. Not bad for a series with only one issue out.
Asatira
posted @ Sat, Sep 30, 2006 8:34:06 pm EDT from 68.117.246.81

On the other hand, here's something to ponder...

I believe it's the Wii that will be offering SNES and Sega Genesis titles for download. Not much has been announced yet, but does anybody else remember the Gargoyles game for the Genesis? Now wouldn't that be fun. ;)

(Obligatory disclaimer for those who jump to conclusions: This is NOT--I repeat, NOT--industry news that I've heard in any way shape or form. Classic SNES and Genesis games for download = verified true. Whether or not Gargoyles could be among them? The Gods only know. Pure speculation, folks!)
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Sat, Sep 30, 2006 8:27:56 pm EDT from 69.244.247.43

Kythera, Demonskrye> Yeah, David suggested that after I'd already posted.

I just got excited by the thought of a (non-exist) new Gargs game that I did jump to conclusions.

Gah, I hate idealism.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Sep 30, 2006 6:30:55 pm EDT from 209.239.132.33

Yes! Todd gets a cookie!
Harvester of Eyes
Can't clowns and pirates just TRY to get along?
posted @ Sat, Sep 30, 2006 6:21:17 pm EDT from 69.175.16.172

Agreed with Demonskrye. With all the news about upcoming games that gets bandied about the office, there's been nothing about a game with gargoyles (Disney or otherwise) in it... and everyone on my floor knows what a fiend I am for the show. ^_-
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Sat, Sep 30, 2006 10:42:50 am EDT from 69.244.247.43

KingCobra> It's a nice trailer, though the jump from black and white to color is a bit jarring, especially since it doesn't seem to mirror the transition from 10th centru Scotland to present day Manhattan.

Also, I think you're jumping to conclusions and Warcrafter's signature suggests nothing more than a particularly "Gargoyles" inspired XBox Live screenname.
Demonskrye
"Demon" works fine too.
posted @ Sat, Sep 30, 2006 9:52:46 am EDT from 209.6.214.28

Was up early this morning, and surprised TBS is STILL running Captiain Planet after all these years. Just listening to the audio, Hearing all the voices in commom with Gargoyles is pretty mindblowing.
Ed Asner(Hoggish Greedly), LeVar Burton (Kwame), Kath Soucie(Linka), Jim Cummings(Sly Sludge), Tim Curry(MAL), Frank Welker(Leadsuit) - Not to mention that Cree Summer was also in the episode that was on this morning.
I'm sure there were others. Still not sure what possessed me to leave the show on - never was there a more preachy show in existence. Maybe nostalgia for the early 90s. Or maybe I just need some sleep. *Curls up on the couch*
Wingless
posted @ Sat, Sep 30, 2006 8:45:41 am EDT from 74.105.128.170

Warcrafter - There are some creative people out there. Wow.
If only it were real...*sigh*
Wingless
posted @ Sat, Sep 30, 2006 5:46:24 am EDT from 74.105.128.170

Warcrafter> I can't access YouTube. What's it about?

Also, your sig suggests to me the possibility of a Gargs game on X-box live. Is that true?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Sat, Sep 30, 2006 5:22:37 am EDT from 209.239.132.139

Hmmmmm...check this out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TttP8Ls7-k
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"FearTheGargoyle" on X-box Live
posted @ Sat, Sep 30, 2006 2:44:57 am EDT from 69.231.217.94

JURGAN - I think that what Harvester was referring to was where Charles Canmore wound up in the afterlife.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Sep 29, 2006 6:22:42 pm EDT from 4.245.19.244

Harvester of Eyes >*LOL* hmm I forgot about that. I could change it to topless ;-P

Greg B> I did mention this before but no one seemed interested in helping me. The best place to spred the word is at conventions. Getting a booth at a con and talking to people about the Gathering, Gargoyles, the dvd, even running around in costume and handing out gathering flyers. IT helps alot. Most people I have met at a con,,, Comic con, Anime LA, Anime expo... Love gargoyles but dont know it's on dvd or about the new comic book. So agian if anyone wnats to help me at a con let me know. I just run around and act crazy and suport the fandom haha.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 29, 2006 1:37:42 pm EDT from 4.246.141.241

Matt> Thanks. Though I just want to point out that those weren't my vids. I just came across those and wanted to direct fans who have a love of the show to them.

Oh from what I have been hearing people are disappointed that the comic has been delayed. Count me in that group, but I'll try and be patient. I've waited years for some material from this great show that is "Gargoyles" a month or so isn't so bad.

Oh and Happy belated Birthdays to Greg Weisman. I really DO need to stop in here every once in a while. ^^'
Doppleganger
posted @ Fri, Sep 29, 2006 12:57:20 pm EDT from 75.22.18.245

"I'd also like to take this opportunity to wish a happy death-day to Charles Canmore. Wherever he went after his humiliating defeat, hopefully he didn't tak it too hard."

Umm... I'm pretty sure he died. He fell off the roof of the cathedral of Notre Dame. It looked pretty painful, and his children swore revenge.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 29, 2006 10:02:49 am EDT from 153.9.83.81

Oh awesome! Thanks!
Brooke
posted @ Fri, Sep 29, 2006 1:08:33 am EDT from 24.252.27.218

Thanks for posting those here first.

1. Issue 2 is schedualed to come out in November.

2. Sales for the first volume of season 2 have been disappointing and right now Disney does not have volume 2 schedualed. SPREAD THE WORD.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Fri, Sep 29, 2006 1:07:17 am EDT from 67.8.234.210

Ok, here goes:

1) What's going on with the comic series? Where's issue 2? It's been a long time since 1 came out :( .

2) I heard a rumor that sales for the first two dvd's weren't good enough, and Disney had decided not to produce the Gargoyles Season 2, Vol 2 dvd. Anyone else hear this? Is there any truth to it at all?
Brooke
-Brooke
posted @ Fri, Sep 29, 2006 1:01:15 am EDT from 24.252.27.218

Hey there! I had a couple of questions and thought i'd check here before considering posting them in AskGreg
Brooke
-Brooke
posted @ Fri, Sep 29, 2006 12:58:34 am EDT from 24.252.27.218

Might as well let people know I'm not dead or have abandoned the room...

Happy Birthday, Greg!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Sep 29, 2006 12:38:52 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

****A fireball streaks into the Room. It stops just above the banquet table, the flames dissipating to reveal Blaise. He deposits a tray of cupcakes on the table.****

It's still the 28th over here, so....
HAPPY BIRTHDAY GREG WEISMAN!!

Later! ****Flames consume Blaise as he blasts out of the Room again.****
Blaise
"Well, it's nothing very special. Try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations."--Monty Python's Meaning of Life
posted @ Fri, Sep 29, 2006 12:21:22 am EDT from 4.232.180.232

Happy birthday, Greg!
Alex Garg
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 9:49:13 pm EDT from 70.187.209.211

Off-topic> Did anyone else see Greg's ramble on Edward Albert? Major bummer there. Never heard of the guy but I'm sure he will be missed.

What exactly happened?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 8:25:13 pm EDT from 209.239.132.236

Happy birthday, Greg! And thanks for all those questions that you answered at "Ask Greg" today!
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 7:55:24 pm EDT from 4.245.20.180

Happy Birthday Greg W.
Spacebabie - [spacebabie@hotmail.com]
"You smell funny."~Jack Sparrow
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 6:13:43 pm EDT from 70.185.5.174

Shara: <*gets greg a cake with a half naked demona poping out of it* :P> Um, you mean exactly the way she is already? ( ;

I'd also like to take this opportunity to wish a happy death-day to Charles Canmore. Wherever he went after his humiliating defeat, hopefully he didn't tak it too hard. The lass did have a millenium's worth of experience on him.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"'Phantom of the Opera' is f**king horrible from start to finish." -Roger Waters
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 5:54:15 pm EDT from 69.160.82.160

Happy Birthday Greg. Have a great birthday
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"FearTheGargoyle" on X-box Live
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 5:23:48 pm EDT from 69.234.0.112

*gets greg a cake with a half naked demona poping out of it* :P

Happy birthday GREG. Haha Enjoyed running into you at comic con.

On the topic of the dvd's. I think I can deal with the non chapter break thing. I was just happy because they put the orignal footage of elisa's chase through the park in awakenings. I had that on my vhs tapes and I accidently taped over it.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 3:27:19 pm EDT from 4.246.141.149

Thanks for all the birthday wishes, gang! They are much appreciated.

As for discussing fanfiction here, please don't stop on my account. As for discussing TGS here, it was Gorebash who decided to split off a second comment room for that. It had nothing to do with me.
Greg Weisman
Pod-casting since 2006...
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 3:19:36 pm EDT from 72.25.64.98

*Rolls in a cake* Happy Birthday Greg! Woooo!
Have a super one.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 2:37:20 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

Happy Birthday, Greg!!
Noel Leas
Noel Leas
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 2:31:31 pm EDT from 209.195.216.55

Happy birthday, Greg.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 2:12:24 pm EDT from 209.239.132.19

grr. ignore stupid link from long dead horse. >.>
Leo
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 1:18:06 pm EDT from 68.107.154.71

Happy Birthday Greg!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 1:15:27 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

Happy birthday, Greg Weisman!
Leo - [<- click]
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 1:14:45 pm EDT from 68.107.154.71

Yay for Greg being born! Happy... um... thirty-somethingth birthday (being nice).
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 1:05:54 pm EDT from 68.58.196.6

Happy birthday, Greg Weisman.

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury - <I was thinking that a possible way to get S2V2 would be to run a purely preorder campaign . . . The price is dependent on how many preorders they get> I could go for that. Only problem is we don't know the minimum number of sales Disney needs to produce Season 2 Volume 2 and we don't know how many sales of Season 2 Volume 1 were.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happpenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 12:01:03 pm EDT from 161.31.67.41

Happy birthday, Greg!

I had brought this up a week or two ago, but it kinda got lost. I was wondering if anyone else was watching the current season of WITCH, and what they thought about it. I'm personally enjoying this season a lot more than the first. It seems to be more character focused and more evenly than last season. There are a few episodes that are very much character episodes (especially "N is for Narcissist" (sp?) and "O is for Obedience"), but they're still very good. That's my two cents, yours?
Asatira - [gostowl@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 11:25:43 am EDT from 131.204.217.10

Happy birthday, Greg!

And speaking of whom, Kaylle et al.: Greg has mentioned in the past that it's OK by him if we discuss fan fiction in this forum; he just skips over it when he sees the topic. However, we tend to avoid discussion of it anyway, as a courtesy to him. I would think that simply mentioning such non-revealing information as story titles would be acceptable in any event.
Ellen
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 8:47:07 am EDT from 64.12.116.8

I woke up in the middle of the night, looked at my cell phone to see what time it was then shook my boyfriend. He says, "What?" I said, "It's Greg Weisman's birthday." He said, "The Gargoyles guy?" I said, "Yeah." He said, "Would you wake me up in the middle of the night to tell ME Happy Birthday? I doubt it. Go back to sleep."

Anyway, HAPPY BIRTHDAY GREG!!!!
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 7:45:51 am EDT from 70.245.243.189

Blaqthorne: If I remember correctly, I think they dropped those commercial inserts after the first 13 episodes. At least, I don't remember seeing them after that.

I'm also not missing chapter breaks too much. They're nice when you have them, but as long as everything is still broken up by episode, that's fine.

Oh, and Happy Birthday to Greg!
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Keep your eyes open, and prick up your ears. Rehearse your loudest cry. There's folk out there who would do you harm, so I'll sing you no lullaby." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 6:42:03 am EDT from 69.160.82.160

I would have thought that somwone would have brought this up already. Happy birthday to Greg Weisman!
Spen
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow" - Mark Twain
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 2:33:34 am EDT from 216.248.119.208

Is all fanfic discussion not permitted here, or just TGS? We seem to have talked about fic in the past... I can understand not wanting to have in depth discussions in here, since Greg stops in now and then, but if someone wanted to recommend a favorite story or something, is that okay?
Kaylle
GargoylesDVD.com
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 1:59:50 am EDT from 24.61.45.54

Season 2 Volume 2 DVD thought> Anyone who's dealt with AnimEigo probably will know what I'm talking about. I was thinking that a possible way to get S2V2 would be to run a purely preorder campaign like AnimEigo did with Urusei Yatsura and, I believe, Maison Ikokku: All sales are via preorder directly through Disney (and/or the Disney Store). The price is dependent on how many preorders they get, e.g. under 1000: $50, 1001-2000: $40, 2000-3000: $30, etc. When they hit the top number of preorders, then distribute them to the general market.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music selection: Animage Best Symphony
posted @ Thu, Sep 28, 2006 1:30:11 am EDT from 207.207.40.84

Chapter stops (breaks)> I don't have a problem with the lack of chapter stops with one exception: after the opening theme. Yes, it's a great song, but unless I'm sitting down to watch only one or two episode(s), I'll skip the opening. What I have a problem with is (according to Greg Weisman) their reasoning for not including them when every other TV show I have on DVD (that I can think of) puts chapter breaks after the opening, after each act, and for the "Next time on ..." bit when the show has them.

My biggest beef is that they still haven't included the 2 second, or so, eye catches that surround the commercial breaks. These were (are) part of the experience of watching them when watching the show when broadcast, and should therefore be included on the DVD's.

Harvester> Yes, I own the Cowboy Bebop DVD's. I'm not at home right now, so I can't say for sure that they're broken up that way, although if there are more than 3 or 4 chapters per disc (probably 12 or 16 depending on how many eps per disc?), the odds are that they are. I'll check when I do get home, though.

Matt> The "rule" exists because there is an actual comment room for TGS, and people have always been directed there since TGS came into existence a decade or so ago, well before Greg Weisman started popping in.

Hmm, looks like Japanese fonts aren't supported here.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music selection: Dinosuar (Disney) OST
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 7:47:12 pm EDT from 207.207.40.106

I've never read any fanfiction so I don't have any interest in discussing it here, but I never realized there was a rule against it. I'm guessing that is because of Greg's presence?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 6:14:23 pm EDT from 70.246.154.254

Warcrafter> Okay, it's things like this that make me think ppl sometimes don't care enough to find out what's going on.

I'm filming a movie myself. The "fun filming movies" thing was just a reference of that. I didn't know whether or not your movie was filming; I just took a guess cause I was interested in discussing *our* movie(s).
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 6:03:47 pm EDT from 209.239.132.96

B&CF> Unfortunately, no I haven't recieved the shirts. We should of got them 2 months ago. I am starting to think we got ripped off.

KingCobra> Just curious, but how did you know about scenes in the movie already being filmed?
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"FearTheGargoyle" on X-box Live
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 5:30:01 pm EDT from 69.234.0.112

Lynati: Everyone could use more action. I know I sure could.

Blaqthorne: Do you own the Cowboy Bebop DVDs? If I'm reading the menu right, those are split up by act.

Spen: There's a bar of quality now? What do they serve there?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"By now you must be worried wondering, who is me and what lies behind my art? I'm only removing broken seashells from the beach..." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 5:28:25 pm EDT from 69.160.82.160

uh sorry guys. Thanks for the info and have a good night, sigh. all great points, never said I didn't think it would be worth the wait! still excited though, lol.
Dragomir
Dragomir
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 4:30:28 pm EDT from 65.96.147.211

Since Spen already said it for me, I'll just add a reminder that gargoyles fanfic is not supposed to be discussed in this room, period. But the TGS CR could use a little more action, so if you have more questions concerning the project, feel free to ask them over there: http://www.s8.org/tgs/

Asatira: You're welcome. : )
Lynati
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 2:16:05 pm EDT from 70.245.221.33

Dragomir : Technichally, your comments belong in the TGS room. But anyway, TGS is most certainly *not* cancelled, the staff is currently working on the TGS site itself, but work is continuing on the stories too, and at the moment it looks like season four will be relesed somtime in 2007. However, since the bar of quality has been raised a good deal, it might be later than that. And really, wouldn't you rather have season four out a bit later and have fantastic stories, or would you rather they put out sub-par work for the sake of a non-existant timetable?
Spen
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow" - Mark Twain
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 12:52:20 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

DRAGOMIR> There is another Comment Room all about discussing TGS.

http://www.s8.org/tgs
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 12:46:12 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

The whole i before e rule is "i before e except after c, unless sounded as "ay," as in neighbor or weigh, not counting the exceptions." I like Loren Estleman's response (quote approximate): "The last phrase turns the rule into a meaningless set of syllables and exposes the whole language for the rattletop jalopy it is. We should bury it and erect a substitute on top to discourage its return: 'When you're not sure where the i and the e go, look it up in the dictionary.' Life is too short, and inspiration too fleeting, to wrestle with bad doggerel."
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 11:27:14 am EDT from 153.9.83.24

"The Sound and the Furry" isn't on the new DVD set.

I wonder how they'll do the future releases. This first one is 23 eps plus the 4 part pilot for a total of 27.

If the next set also has 27, that leaves 11 episodes left over, which isn't much of a set.

One suggestion I would have is that the pilot on the first DVD set is the 4-part TV version. There is a longer made-for-TV movie version of it with extended scenes. I would really love to see THAT on DVD.

There's also the question of whether they'll release "Flying Dupes." That episode's been banned off TV since 2001, because the plot is about Baloo unwittingly flying a bomb to deliver to the Thembrian High Marshall. The justification for the ban is "terrorist themes."
Stormy
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 11:13:42 am EDT from 142.167.208.71

Mark-- So far, there is only ONE issue of the comic out. You can try calling your local comic book stores, or click the link to Amazon.com on the left hand side of this page (the one that says "New Gargoyles Comic!"
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 10:53:53 am EDT from 69.244.247.43

Hey guys, after years of reading I have finally finished all three seasons of TGS fanfiction, what a ride! I'm almost sad about this because now I'll be at the edge of my seat waiting for Season 4 to come out (and dreading as to whether or not the writers intend to continue the storyline!). Does anyone here know when season 4 will be posted for our reading pleasure? Or is this ongoing fanfic series truly over? sigh.
On a lighter note, what do you guys think of the Chinese Gargoyles Chiang Yun and Mei-Hsing? Very different from your typical gargoyles, more like Demona in behavior and actions except they seem to prefer burying their emotions behind a carefully placed mask than actually let anyone know how they really feel (or exploding into outbursts of rage for that matter). I found Chiang Yun to be an interesting Garg gal with a hot character design that differs from most female gargs (wears a leather one piece suit and has a beak like Ariana). I like characters like her who are cool and aloof most of the time but explode into action when a battle is afoot (she truly appeared to having a blast while fighting the Druj, willing to fight them alone and all...But I hate Mei-Hsing for reasons that should be quite obvious to any who is a fan of Goliath/Elisa (i'm not really but I still can't stand her attitude, even Demona at least tried to justify her hatred, sheesh). But seriously now, what do you guys think of these two? I personally hope they play an important role as main characters in Season 4, or at least important reoccuring characters.
Dragomir
"Oh reaaaaaally..." Chiang Yun grinned evily. "You three get out of here, I'll hold them off for a moment and then get out!" (TGS story, the Council III)
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 9:55:29 am EDT from 64.69.127.141

Does anyone know where one would go if one was a longtime fan of the cartoon that just recently found out that it had a comic series, if one wanted to buy all the back issue comics? Or at least read about the story...
Mark - [mrattelle41@yahoo.com]
please help
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 9:30:45 am EDT from 151.203.134.172

I will confess that I don't have any problems with an absence of chapter breaks in the DVD - to me, it's enough that you can immediately go to an episode in question (as opposed to searching for it on videotape with a lot of fast-forwarding and rewinding).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 7:32:23 am EDT from 4.244.208.247

Warcrafter> Very nice, dude. It's fun doing movies, isn't it? :)

A couple scenes (one of which was filmed last night) were added to the script.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 6:54:59 am EDT from 209.239.132.194

Warcrafter> Have you received your shirts yet?

Ed> Just how long is the complete "i before e" ditty, anyway? I know that there is at least one or two more "verses" after the "except when pronounced 'a' as in neigh or in weigh". There are so many exceptions that there are extremely few rules for any spelling in the English language.

DVD chapter stops> Just how expensive are those? Of the 100+ anime TV series DVD's I own, I can't think of one that doesn't have chapter stops for each act of each episode.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music selection: ドラゴンクエスト ゲーム音源大全集 2 ("Dragon Quest" Game Music Super Collection Vol. 2)
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 6:54:29 am EDT from 63.20.80.127

If else has trouble with Greg's podcast, here's a direct link to the audio rather than the m3u stream/playlist on the website:

http://www.catchdacraze.com/GregWeisman.mp3

It's 37.5 MB.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose@karpacrossamerica.com]
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 1:08:45 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

Battle Beast> It's called "Haze" It's a feature about a college fraternity hazing. I'm guessing I'll be reading for the parts of either Nick, Pete, or Taylor. Im guessing Nick since he's supposed to be a quarterback who looks like Matt Leinert and that Im a big guy who kinda looks like him.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"FearTheGargoyle" on X-box Live
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 1:05:57 am EDT from 69.234.0.112

A bit of a sad note, Byron Nelson passed away to day at the age of 94.

IF you don't golf, then you probably don't. He won an incredible 11 tournaments in a row *in a row* and *18* in one year.

That's the equivalent of 70 home runs in a year, 50 goals in 39 hockey games, a 51 game hitting streak, 100 points in a basket ball game, etc. You get the idea.

He is the ONLY golfer to have a tournament named in his honor, and is considdered a ledgend by most. He will be sadly missed.

RIP.

Warcrafter> What's it called? The picture?

Benny> Thanks!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 12:47:20 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Yay, I got a callback for the movie I auditioned for.

Welcome Benny, if you're not too full on cookies, have some cake! *Hands over some home made cake*
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
"FearTheGargoyle" on X-box Live
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 12:22:48 am EDT from 69.234.0.112

It was "Wait" vs. "Weight" vs. "Wieght"
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Wed, Sep 27, 2006 12:03:46 am EDT from 206.57.91.114

Ed> I think it did go into those exceptions. And if I remember right, I think Baloo had to sky-write something and spell it correctly and at first he used the first part of the i before e thing but then the word was wrong and they had to remember the second part of the ryhme to correct the word.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 11:14:28 pm EDT from 70.135.18.49

Ed: And colon semicolon, too!
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Can't clowns and pirates just TRY to get along?
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 9:25:47 pm EDT from 69.160.82.160

TaleSpin: yeah, I think the episode is called the Sound and Furry, but I don't know if the episode is on the new DVD or not. cute "lobsters" though.

Tarred,Greased,Dipped.. take your pick :p

Welcome Benny, I'll take your word that your'e our friend,... and those many exclamation points ;)
Starlioness
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 9:17:42 pm EDT from 71.212.3.33

I loved Talespin. Can't remember it very well. But I ADORED the episode where Baloo has to learn to spell something correctly or something bad will happen. There's a mid-episode act break where someone (Rebecca?) says something like "Bad spelling really is a crime?" which always stuck with me. Plus, it certainly made me remember the (complete) "i" before "e" rule in the context of a really dramatic story (well, I'm not sure if it went into exceptions like "weigh" but it was good enough for me aged 6 or 7 or whatever I was). Genius.
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 9:05:29 pm EDT from 213.187.39.83

Benny's posting from Greg Weisman's IP address.
--JJ
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 9:02:26 pm EDT from 132.170.49.195

I remember that Tailspin episode! That was one of my favorites! It had those littel things that took the engines of the planes apart. And I remember the lines: "... But we don't have tar and feathers." "We have airplane grease!" "And spoons!" Quotes approximate.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 8:20:31 pm EDT from 70.135.18.49

well battle beast you can have one to!!!!!!!
Benny Weisman
I'm your friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 8:00:42 pm EDT from 68.183.95.134

Comics... I'd visit a local comic shop if I had a local comic shop. But I don't. Used to at uni. But even then, it was more that I used it as a short-cut and used to keep an eye on what was coming out. I didn't spend a lot on comics though just because most of it didn't really interest me. I followed the Ultimates line on and off. Abadazad before it was prematurely and brutally snuffed out. JMS's Spidey until I realised its 'bad phase' after a promising first eight or so issues was actually going to be the status quo. Never followed DC as much. Generally, I get trades/graphic novels. Blankets. Bones. Y: The Last Man. Waid's Fantastic Four. Not as much these days because I don't see the shelves as regularly and so nothing catches my eye and so I don't really think about it so much. Anyway, I don't think I'm missing much. All these Marvel big crossovers seem gimmicky and pretty tedious.

Shara: Well said. I know artists who struggle to keep a professional career ticking along and profitable, sometimes working full-time as well. Of course, American comics may be different, but not that different I imagine.

Benny: Hiya! I've heard good things about ElfQuest, but I've always been a bit put off because it seems like there's so much to read.

KingCobra: ******* ***** ******* ******** ******* about ******* ****** language, ****** *********** ************* *****!

Todd: I think if you keep coming out with these conspiracy theories, I think you're going to need to start using a Bluestone picture instead of King Arthur. ;)
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 7:00:00 pm EDT from 213.187.39.83

STORMY - Nope, I definitely had that episode of "Tailspin" in mind when I said it. (And I'm not the least bit surprised that you were the one to notice the reference. :))

Welcome to the Comment Room, Benny! (You *are* that Benny and not somebody else pretending to be him, right?)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 6:15:03 pm EDT from 4.245.21.255

Hey Benny. Welcome to the room. I think I met you at the gathering. HOpe to see you agian this year. :)

ooooo TALESPIN.!!!!! My fav childhood cartoon.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 2:11:22 pm EDT from 4.246.248.120

I buy comics regularly, but I can usually only make it to the comics shop once a month. So, I tend to pick up my books in one big pile monthly.

Todd: Can you explain where you got the "grease and spoon" substitute for "tar and feathers" from?

I ask because there's an episode of TaleSpin in which the pilots want to "tar and feather" a mechanic who's been ripping them off, but they discover they don't have any tar or any feathers. However, they do have airplane grease and spoons, so they "Grease and spoon" her instead.

But I don't think that's what you had in mind so I was wondering if the episode writers borrowed the idea from some other source that I don't know.
Stormy
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 2:02:05 pm EDT from 142.167.192.167

(not that I mind, though)...
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 12:33:21 pm EDT from 198.53.28.99

So I have to keep the old traditions alive? *SIGH*

Hi Benny! Have a cookie! *Holds out a plate of cookies*

Welcome!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 12:32:53 pm EDT from 198.53.28.99

Welcome to the room, Benny.

Harvester> Not that I swear at all IN THIS COMMENT ROOM, but if I had to watch myself in my day-to-day existence, I'd have almost no vocabulary at all. :P
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 7:20:11 am EDT from 209.239.132.228

Oh, great, now I've gotta watch my language. ( ;

But seriously, welcome to Station 8, Benny!
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"The last time I tried that on a human, he fell apart."
posted @ Tue, Sep 26, 2006 6:49:30 am EDT from 69.160.82.160

Welcome to the Room, Benny. I know this sounds crazy, but you posting in this Room makes me feel really old!

Next generation of Gargoyles fans. Cool.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 11:48:18 pm EDT from 70.253.176.45

Hi Benny! Welcome to the CR. Please deposit your sanity in that jar over there. ;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 10:56:32 pm EDT from 66.192.104.10

Hi Benny! Welcome to the CR. Please deposit your sanity in that jar over there.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 10:55:30 pm EDT from 66.192.104.10

Hi everyone I'm Benny, Greg's son. I recommend the Elf Quest comic series.
benny
Benny Weisman
I'm your friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 10:49:49 pm EDT from 68.183.95.134

Growing pains as the reason the comic isn't released as quickly.

<Maybe SLG got a little too ambitious and promised too many books at a faster pace than they could deliver given the resources of a smaller comic company.> Well, that sounds like an economies of scale problem. They have x amount of capacity to produce at their current level and it's full. To inceease their capacity would involve a lot of expenditure of cash and result in excess capacity that they can't possibly fill. It's like milk producers having a set amount of cows. Adding *just* one more cow would involve a major expense and it's not cost justified. Of course I could be all wrong thinking it's a problem with production capacity instead of something else.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 9:26:19 pm EDT from 71.29.243.62

*mouth hangs open for a second*

Holy shit. I have GOT to see what I've been missing.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Lover of the black and white, it's your first night. The Passion Play goes all the way, spoils your insight." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 9:13:50 pm EDT from 69.160.82.160

WINGLESS> THe cover for issue 2 was public back in May. They've had it for a long time.

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/35962663/?qo=19&q=by%3Abonegoddess&qh=sort%3Atime+-in%3Ascraps

Harvester of Eyes> Yes, that would be Iron Man I am talking about.

I'll try to be brief. In the new mega-event, "Civil War" a team of young superheroes, the New Warriors are tracking a group of supervillains in Stamford, Connecticut. THe New Warriors are reality TV show superheroes, so this is all on film. There is a fight, and then a large portion of the Stamford suberbs is taken out. Middle class/upper class yuppie white people, hundreds of them are killed.

So, the government decides to use this as an excuse to come down hard on the superhero community by forcing them to unmask and register, which would make them super powered policemen working for the Federal government. Public opinion is mixed, with many seeing this as a violation of civil liberties.

Iron Man/Tony Stark is behind registration 100%, and justifies taking charge by telling himself if it's not him, it would be someone worse. Captain American rebels against this and goes underground. Cap is not a pawn of the Federal government, he believes in justice and liberty, embodies what America is supposed to stand for, not the beurocratic politicians who are currently in power. He does not want to be in a position where the government can tell them who they have to fight.

So, the superhero community is split, with many siding with Captain America and many siding with Tony Stark. Tony is working hard to bring down Cap and arrest the Anti-Reg heroes.

And Tony has become quite the Fascist. He knew about the Registration Act before Stamford, and was quietly supporting it. He and Reed Richards unleashed a homicidal clone of Thor on Captain America and his supporters. He and Reed Richards are building gulags to hold renegade superheroes in the Negative Zone. And superheroes or people with super powers have no choice. They must register and become tools of the Federal government, or it's a one way ticket to these gulags.

And perhaps, worst of all, Tony Stark is now enlisting supervillains to hunt down renegade superheroes. I'm not talking C-List bank robbers, I'm talking homicidal sociopaths like the Green Goblin, Bullseye, Lady Deathstrike, Venom, etc.

And in the process, Tony manipulated Spider-Man into revealing his identity before Congress and the world to be a symbol (Spidey will realise he was a retard and be switching sides soon), the Avengers split. The Fantastic Four have split. The X-Men are... neutral. And Dr. Doom is looking to exploit this, and I'm sure he will.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 8:35:17 pm EDT from 66.192.104.10

Doppleganger> Cool videos. I esspecially liked the Hunter's Moon one. Great use of fading. Very cool.

Greg B> "Why am I not at all surprised."
Why am I not at all surprised to see you make a comment like that in reference to the art?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 7:52:27 pm EDT from 70.255.40.132

HARVESTER - Thanks for not going into details about that one. :)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 7:42:35 pm EDT from 4.244.215.81

Todd: There's more than one way to punish someone. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Lover of the black and white, it's your first night. The Passion Play goes all the way, spoils your insight." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 7:37:48 pm EDT from 69.160.82.160

Harvester of Eyes>Demand really doesnt have anything to do with making a book. Once you make it its off to the printers and ta da!!!!! how many are printed is up to the company though but the artwork etc has nothing to do with demand.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 7:35:26 pm EDT from 4.245.120.214

Greg Bishansky>You know why they call it "SLAVE LABOR" graphic novels. Alot of their artists don't make what marvel pays etc and sometime it's volentter artists who work on a project until they are able to pay them. Thats where there name came from.

A couple of my friends who graduated cal arts told me about that. This is why they have a bad rep of some of their books taking longer to make. However when there books are made they look great. Slave labor has one comic that I buy monthly that I love.

I still think everyone should calm down and jsut give them the time they need to make the gargoyle comic look great.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 7:29:52 pm EDT from 4.245.120.214

HARVESTER - What do nails have to do with tar and feathers? (On second thought, I might be better off not learning the answer to that question.)

Re comics: I'm not much of a comics reader in the sense of "comic books", though I've read a number of graphic novels (I'm fond of "Bone", and am thinking of also purchasing the first two volumes of "Age of Bronze" - a graphic novel retelling of the Trojan War - when I have the opportunity). I've also purchased the full Fantagraphics Books reprint of "Prince Valiant", and am doing the same with their reprint of "Peanuts" now as well. (And I bought both volumes of the trade paperback version of the short-lived "X-Men: Evolution" comic.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 7:23:44 pm EDT from 4.244.215.81

Greg B: Does your signature refer to Iron Man? If it does, please give me some elaboration next time I'm online. Never had him pegged as one (of course, my experience with comics is limited at best).

Shara: Seriously, I think that perhaps what took SLG aback was the demand. If they are a small company, I think that demand just overshot supply.

Todd: Awwwwww, now those nails in my garage are gonna go to waste! Ah well, I'll just do with them what I do with most of the lockjaw-inducing items taing up space in there: sell 'em to the kindergarteners down the road! Well, plus I never took shop and I'm a shitty craftsman. Anyone else here handy with wood? ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Lover of the black and white, it's your first night. The Passion Play goes all the way, spoils your insight." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 7:17:37 pm EDT from 69.160.82.160

Re Comic: maybe they heard all the complaints about the artwork and they are taking their time with it. They know we want quality. If they're making us wait, It'll be worth the wait. Notice, BTW, we haven't even seen cover art for it yet. It's been kept very hush-hush for some reason. If they've decided to go quarterly with it, maybe that's the reason.

Just a thought from the Wingless one.
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 7:17:35 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

PATRICK - I meant that remark as a joke - I should have included a smiley after it.

Too bad about the quarterly schedule, but I suppose that there's not much that we can do about it except to - I hope that you're not getting tired of this phrase - "SPREAD THE WORD!" And, please, no going after David Hedgecock with tar and feathers (or grease and plastic spoons, if you can't find any tar or feathers).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 7:12:18 pm EDT from 4.244.215.81

Hit "Add" too soon.

Point is, I don't hold SLG to the same standards that I would hold Marvel or DC when it comes to schedualing comics. Smaller comic book companies just don't have the same resources.

Now, it is my hope, that the "Gargoyles" comic continues to sell well enough so that SLG can grow and put more resources behind it and other comic books so that maybe one day it will go monthly. "Gargoyles" is a strong property, we've known this for twelve years now. There is potential there for the fanbase to grow, and for the universe to grow.

Yes, I like to dream that one day we will have that "Gargoyles Universe" that Greg ambitiously mapped out in his head with not just the "Gargoyles" comic, but spin-offs and tie-ins.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 7:09:55 pm EDT from 66.192.104.10

Kythera> I read comics pretty recularly. With one or two exceptions, most of what I read is by independent publishers or limited run (ie, mini-series), so I'm rather used to irregular schedules. Still, having it moved to quarterly isn't much fun. Maybe it'll be bigger? (optimistic)
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 7:07:02 pm EDT from 68.117.246.81

Every Wednesday, I am down at my comic shop. I've always felt that now was a great time to be a comic book fan. My pull list currently consists of "Civil War", "Astonishing X-Men" (Written by Joss Whedon!!!), "New Avengers", "Civil War: Frontline", "Y: The Last Man", "Fables", "Amazing Spider-Man" (By J. Michael Straczynski!). A lot of great stuff.

Yes, I am as disappointed and angry about the delay of the comic also, not going to go into the usual argument since everyone's opinion is well documented, and it's counter productive. I am used to it. Marvel Comics Mega Company wide crossover, "Civil War" was delayed almost eight weeks. And since so many other comics directly tied in to what was going on there, they also had to be pushed back several weeks. So, these things happen. Should they happen? No. But, they do happen.

I can tell a lot of people in here are not regular comic book readers, or never picked up a comic in their lives. So, yeah, as disappointing as this is, it's not the end of the world.

"Gargoyles" going quarterly, I'll admit, it makes me nervous. SLG is a small company though, and I think some of their other titles are now quarterly. "Tron" Issue 2 is still not out, and their first issue came out before "Gargoyles" did.

Maybe SLG got a little too ambitious and promised too many books at a faster pace than they could deliver given the resources of a smaller comic company. DC and Marvel don't have this problem because, well, they're DC and Marvel. They're the Big Two. They're owned by conglomerates. Warner Bros owns DC.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 7:05:14 pm EDT from 66.192.104.10

Kythera of Anevern>Haha I try to keep up with comics. The only comic I ever followed was superman. I have boxes and boxes of thoughs. As a kid I had a fetish with him or something. Then when they did that whoel thing where he died I had the superman black armband on etc. My mom thought I was nuts. Though she still thinks im nuts when she looks at the tv and sees naked anime chicks. Hmm speaking of fetish stuff, I need to email you about a certin peice of erotic chain mail that I want to buy from you :P
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 6:27:26 pm EDT from 4.245.120.214

There are some quarterly comics that do just fine. "Dogwitch" by Dan Schaffer got its start as a quarerly book and was a HUGE success for a small publisher called Sirius (they also publish Poison Elves). The creator, himself, chose to end it after 18 issues so that he could work on other things. "Girl Genius" by Phil and Kaja Foglio was ALSO a huge hit. It's since moved out of paper issues and into other formats, but still has a rabid following. Point being... going quarerly isn't a death sentence.

Out of curiosity, how many people here ACTUALLY read comics on a regular basis, and visit their local comic shop at least once a week or every other week? **Raises a paw** (I may have asked this before... just trying to refresh my memory.)
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail.com]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 6:17:59 pm EDT from 69.244.247.43

Harvester of Eyes>haha Im just glad we have a offical comic and that it is selling well. YOu should have seen the crouds at comic con buying it. I think everyone is just overly eggar to see the next comic. If they knew what went into getting art ready etc maybe everyone would calm down a bit and just wait a little while longer.

(shameless plug)

Haha well while everyones waiting for the offical comic you can always go view the un-offical gargoyles webcomic. Its on a roll now and being updated once a month. Click link

Http://www.ka-blamo.com/gargs.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 6:11:36 pm EDT from 4.245.120.214

Patrick: <There's a lot bigger things going on in the world to take up argument against than having to wait a bit longer for a comic book.> Yeah, the president's still declaring war on an abstract noun. Which would be more amusing, were it not ruining so many lives.

Greg B and Kingcobra: Me three. No specifics, indeed!

Todd: That's interesting. I wonder if Dominic is still considered the "head" of the family.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Lover of the black and white, it's your first night. The Passion Play goes all the way, spoils your insight." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 5:42:28 pm EDT from 69.160.82.160

REPOSTING THIS FOR THE NEW WEEK:

Believe it or not...

I'm pod-casting at http://www.catchdacraze.com/

Tried to listen to it myself, but couldn't make it work. But theoretically one of you might be able to manage it.

Can't hurt to try, right...

(OH, AND I'VE SINCE BEEN ASSURED THAT THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN FIXED.)
Greg Weisman
Pod-casting since 2006...
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 5:28:04 pm EDT from 72.25.64.98

Greg B.> Ditto!

Quarterly Comics> Why do I have this sinking feeling about it? Oh, yeah, I know why. Not only would being on a Quarterly-only release schedule potentially make would-be buyers possibly weary of the comic, but it would mean less issues (remember that they're in a 3-year contract) before renewal. And if (God forbid!) it doesn't get picked up again, then where would we go for further new stories?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 5:25:15 pm EDT from 209.239.132.57

Oh, and no worries, Spen. Not the first time it's happened. :)
Demonskrye
"Demon" works fine too.
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 4:19:57 pm EDT from 209.6.214.28

Thanks oodles, Gorebash. It's good to have an answer, even if it's not the one we were hoping for and does raise some questions.

Now before anyone decides to take the opportunity to point an accusatory talon at Mr. Hedgecock, let me say that "delayed art" could mean any number of things. It could be a deay in the coloring, there could have been a problem with the scanning, a completely non-comic related issue could have come up that kept someone from getting their work in when anticipated.

I'm not thrilled about the idea of the comic going quarterly, but I guess if SLG knows that the book is going to take longer to get out on a regular basis, it's better to go to a more relaxed schedule than to try shooting for bi-monthly and repeatedly push the book back.
Demonskrye
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 4:17:10 pm EDT from 209.6.214.28

"It seems the reason is the art was delayed (no specifics)"

Why am I not at all surprised.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"They spent so much time looking at Janet Jackson's tit, I actually thought Osama bin Laden was hiding in it." - Lewis Black
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 4:10:44 pm EDT from 67.8.234.210

Thanks for the heads-up Gore (and SLG). As long as the books are good. Hopefully this will be taken into account when Disney comes to look at how the comic is doing for them.

I wonder if there's been any thought given toward having a companion book (one of the spin-offs) so that instead of 6x 'Gargoyles' a year, we'd get 4x 'Gargoyles' and 2-4x something else. On the one hand, it seems very early for anything of this sort to be mooted, but there again it would allow them to get their five bobs' worth out of the lisence (assuming that's how it works), would keep the book in the public eye and it would mean that different art teams could work on the books simultaneously, hopefully avoiding these sorts of delays in future.
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 4:08:59 pm EDT from 213.187.39.83

Just got an e-mail back from the SLG people. Gargoyles #2 probably won't be out until November. It seems the reason is the art was delayed (no specifics). Issue #3 is aimed for January and after that SLG is looking to publish on a quarterly schedule.

Looks like Gargoyles is no longer bi-monthly. I don't know if that's just because the art is taking longer than expected or if there are other issues. It's a bit disappointing but hang in there.
Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 3:59:38 pm EDT from 207.206.247.224

Oops, sorry Demonskrye, I misspelled your name there.
Spen
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow" - Mark Twain
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 3:25:30 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

Matt : Well, I for one always check last weeks comments for anything I missed; sometimes even before posting in the Top Ten.

Off-topic : That point Demonskyre made about the show having been animated by several differant studios reminded me of a question I've been meaning to ask for a while. Which studio animated "Monsters"?
Spen
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow" - Mark Twain
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 3:24:26 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUSBZHD3t8g&eurl=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FghLUioSUM4&mode=related&search=
Doppleganger
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 3:18:46 pm EDT from 75.22.237.127

Scott Iskow> If I thought that maybe a different creative team could do a limited series of ten or so issues (going on the theory that the material in one TV episode takes two issues of comic to cover) or a graphic novel alongside the regular series that covered "Awakening", I'd think it was OK. But I'm guessing fans of the show who are already familiar with the origin of the gargoyles make up a decent sized chunk of the comic's readership, and we're already a little less than happy about having two issues of "Journey" recap before the new stories really start in. If this did happen and the guys at SLG and Creature Comics wanted the fandom to pick up an adpatation of a multiparter from a TV series that they already own on DVD, there would have to be something else. Maybe some references to the material that would have been covered in "Dark Ages", a little more devlopment of the Captain of the Guard and the rest of the clan, so it's even more of an emotional impact when the massacre happens. I would definitely not want the sam creative team doing it (except Greg W., of course), not because I think they're bad, but because they've already got a bimonthly book to keep them busy.

Stormy> Some of SLG's books - and many other smaller publisher titles - are very creator based; if you don't have the original creator or creative team doign work, the you don't have a new issue. Some of these creators work at a very slow pace or take on many other projects to pay the bills. So both the publisher and the reader generally accept that the comic comes out when it comes out, not on any regular schedule. "Dork" is a big example of this from SLG. Evan Dorkin may go for years without producing a new issue, but his fans still buy it when it does come out.

"Gargoyles" is only partly a creator based comic. If Greg were unable to write new issues, we probably wouldn't want anyone else to be doing it, even if it meant there were no new issues for a while or possibly ever. But side from the need for Greg's guiding hand, "Gargoyles" is more character or concept based than creator based. If a particular artist leaves one of the "Spider-Man" or "Batman" books, it doesn't cease production. Marvel or DC finds a new artist to come in and keep the book going. Given that "Gargoyles" has already transitioned from TV show (animated by a number of studios with various styles and, shall we say, "interpretations" of the model sheets) to comics, it's unlikely that any one artist, no matter how you may feel about his or her work, will become so closely asscoiated with the book that you could not imagine anyone else doing the artwork. And given that "Gargoyles" is not strongly associated with any creative force other than Greg, features a continuing storyline, and has not yet established a solid readership beyond the existing fan community, it really cannot survive as the type of comic that "comes out when it comes out".
Demonskrye
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 1:23:22 pm EDT from 209.6.214.28

Keith David and Kate Mulgrew have also done voiceover work for radio. Radio and T.V. interviews are arranged mostly by management on one side talking to management on the other. Having a third party pass a business card has little chance of netting anyone.

I think we have litle chance of seeing the "inside scoop" on the comic posted in this forum. It'd be highly unprofessional for anyone from SLG to go out on the internet and start tossing blame around. Delays happen, and it does little good to get all worked up about it. There's a lot bigger things going on in the world to take up argument against than having to wait a bit longer for a comic book.

Todd > You're cute when you get all paranoid. ;)

271 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 12:58:21 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

The lateness is concerning me as well. To be honest, the book already had a strike against it by adapting an already-produced episode. And another strike, because (being bimonthly) it would take 4 months to get to the new material.

Lateness is a great way to make comics fans irate (although it seems like it doesn't take much nowadays), but the bigger concern is that people might forget about the book altogether. So when issue 2 comes out, we might want to go to the discussion boards ourselves and make with the hyping.

Here's a somewhat related question: Since many comic book readers may have missed out on the show and may not pick up the DVDs, do you think a comic book version of "Awakening" is in order?
Scott Iskow - [smiskow@lycos.com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 12:09:14 pm EDT from 71.252.124.98

I know delays are common in the comic book industry, particularly from smaller publishers. Right now, I'm not worrying too much about it. I buy another SLG book (Next Exit) and I just sort of...get it when I get it.
Stormy
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 11:15:13 am EDT from 142.167.212.9

Off-topic> I have this friend who runs an internet radio show, and, being a fan of Gargoyles, has mentioned how he'd like to get someone like Thom and/or Jeff on as a 'celeb interview' (before he gave me a couple business cards to give them at the next con, in case they're interested.) and it got me wondering. I know Thom has had some experience in the radio field (ads and stuff), but have any of the other Gargs VAs done anything radio-related? This is unrelated to the current topic and not really relevent, but it's something U'm just curious about. Thanks.

*silently debates to himself whether or not give Thom and/or Jeff those business cards this summer*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 8:37:34 am EDT from 209.239.132.198

HARVESTER - So far as I know, Greg's never said anything about the rest of Tony Dracon's family.

DEMONSKRYE - Maybe SLG isn't going into details about the reason for the delay because the people who make the public announcements don't want to snitch on anybody.

As a side-note, there's one thing about David Hedgecock that's unsettled me, much more so than his art style. His bio in Gargoyles #1 focused far more on his personal adventures than on his cartoonist career (which is the immediately relevant issue to his role in making the comic) and described the latter in an unsettlingly flippant and tongue-in-cheek style. That makes me worry about him. (It even provokes the speculation - though this is only a speculation, and I don't want to see it become the foundation for a new set of rumors - that maybe the reason why there's been the big delay in getting #2 out is that David's gone off on another round of adventures again rather than sitting down at his desk to do the drawings.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Sep 25, 2006 7:38:09 am EDT from 4.245.21.28

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending October 2, 2006

Index : Hide Images