Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Starting off with an actual Gargoyles related comment. And anyone who wants to avoid my and Greg B.'s apparent tete-a-tete, skip the rest of this post.

Am I alone in the view that everytime people ask about the DVD, the comic, merchandise, etc., I kinda wish Gargoyles was Japanese in origin? If it was anime, we'd would no doubt have had the entire show on DVD several years ago, the sountrack would have been available, and most likely have more than 11 issues of a manga that was either based on the show or that the show was based on (I'm only considering the Marvel comic).

End of Gargoyles-related post.

Greg B.> And this will be the last I say on this topic. "You just go and find editorials written by talking heads which back up your viewpoint and post them in here." Isn't that the point when trying to argue a side of a topic?
Actually, I really had no interest in (and still don't) starting a debate on the intelligence of Jon Stewart. I started with basically taking the polar opposite to your view--you hyperbolized, I hyperbolized. Then, as I said, I came across some rather interesting--to me--pieces that would support the opposite of your position.
The only thing I really said that was a reflection of how I felt, was that I really don't like what he's done to The Daily Show (which I used to watch almost daily when Kilborn hosted). So, basically, yeah, I don't like the man's material.
And, since I really haven't watched TDS since Kilborn left (maybe 15-20 times in those 7 years), honestly I couldn't tell you whether I believe my own statement about his intelligence. I just felt like taking the opposite view of yours. Hence, I HAD to go to sources other than myself to back up that claim. BTW, in the first 40 Google articles, there were maybe 2 or 3 that were in the "Jon Stewart is an extremely brilliant man" camp. All my sources were from those first 40 hits (or whatever they're called).

Oh, I just read the transcript of that Crossfire episode (where he also calls Tucker Carlson a dick), and I failed to see how he "destroyed Crossfire".

Besides, I asked you to back up your claim that he's the most brilliant man on the face of the Earth, and you never actually answered that question. You mention studies that claim his audience, not Jon, is one of the smartest around. The only thing you really say in response is that he makes fun of government and the media. So, in your own words: "You fail." (and now I'm just goading you on)

To say I flipped out over a couple of curse words is SO misrepresenting the issue I had with the comment. But that's a several-month-old topic that I thought had been laid to rest a long time ago.

BTW, do you really believe someone should be killed for making movies that you don't enjoy?
I think you should be killed for making statements that I disagree with. Is that an acceptable comment?

I sure hope this doesn't spill into next week's CR.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music selection: Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory OST
posted @ Sun, Oct 15, 2006 3:20:17 am EDT from 4.230.132.205

Thought I'd better add this.

I'm sorry if my tone is a little hostile, but, it's important to be frank and reasonable.

As this is not an attack on anyone, I will not continue further unless required.

Let us all strive to be reasonable and thoughtful. The peril of our world lies in the stupidity and groupthink we are taught to love.

The Internet was once a reasonable place....
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Sun, Oct 15, 2006 3:07:39 am EDT from 206.57.91.114

Keep trying to make this personal JJ, you are only making yourself look bad. You know, I will admit, I was ready to make a huge, flaming post, but that seems to be exactly what you want. So, tough luck, I'm not taking the bait.

Believe it or not, I choose my words in here very carefully. There have been a few posts I've made in here over the years that I've regretted. Not many of them, but a few. I know the power of words very well. I am an aspiring writer, I have three screenplays in the works. I think about what I say before I say it.

Not taking the bait. Better luck next time.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey"
posted @ Sun, Oct 15, 2006 3:05:55 am EDT from 68.202.44.89

:shrugs:
Simply logical inference.
As you respect Weisman, and he is a "prude" by your reasoning, apparently your statement holds little merit. You probably should have not said it as it only makes you look bad.

As someone with interpersonal problems, I feel your pain. I know it's hard-- it's hard for me, too -- but you got to think about what you are saying.
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Sun, Oct 15, 2006 2:54:05 am EDT from 206.57.91.114

I did not mention Greg Weisman, except when talking about a movie that both he and I happened to dislike.

Stop putting words in my mouth. You brought him into this, not I.

All I said was the word "prude". That has nothing to do with Greg.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"And I only said those things to you, because I sincerely believe you're a terrible person," - Jon Stewart
posted @ Sun, Oct 15, 2006 2:46:30 am EDT from 68.202.44.89

You brought Weisman into play when you called people concerned with language "prudes."

You have this lack of understanding for human interaction.
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Sun, Oct 15, 2006 2:43:33 am EDT from 206.57.91.114

Retracting previous statement. On this forum, it can be nearly impossible to read a simple thread.

Gorebash, I realize that this your baby, but it's badly outmoded.
We really need to see if someone can come up with a more modern forum system.
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Sun, Oct 15, 2006 2:41:54 am EDT from 206.57.91.114

JJ> Where did I bring Greg Weisman into anything? If I did, it was my post on movies.

::looks:: Yeah, all I said was that Greg once posted he walked out of "Born on the Fourth of July".

And I didn't actually type any curse words either.

And you asked where B&CF called Jon an idiot... and I quote:
"From what I've seen of his work, he's one of the biggest flaming idiots on the face of the Earth"
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"And I only said those things to you, because I sincerely believe you're a terrible person," - Jon Stewart
posted @ Sun, Oct 15, 2006 2:40:56 am EDT from 68.202.44.89

Greg B...
>>Oh yes, I forgot that you were the same prude who flipped out over a couple of curse words in here. My bad. It won't happen again.
>>
So, why are you bringing Greg Weisman into this? That is a serious problem, as kids can visit here easily. You know, Benny popped in here a little while ago. You are too clever not to be able to express yourself without those words.

Besides, Blaqthorne never said Stewart was stupid, just not a genius. Doesn't it strike you as odd that you are threatening to ignore Blaqthorne over something so picayune?
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Sun, Oct 15, 2006 2:37:35 am EDT from 206.57.91.114

To tell you the truth, I feel a little insulted, I post a well thought out, polite overview of my opinion, and you can't even be bothered to put any thought into a decent response. You just go and find editorials written by talking heads which back up your viewpoint and post them in here.

I brought substance, you clearly had nothing to say. Now, there is no accounting for taste. You don't think he's funny, that's fine. But he's not an idiot, and that's why I took you to task, and you fell backwards and fought back with the equivilant of a wiffle bat.

Aw well, in the future I will ignore you, as clearly attempting to debate you is a waste of your time and mine.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"And I only said those things to you, because I sincerely believe you're a terrible person," - Jon Stewart
posted @ Sun, Oct 15, 2006 1:54:58 am EDT from 68.202.44.89

Oh yes, I forgot that you were the same prude who flipped out over a couple of curse words in here. My bad. It won't happen again.

"Calling him the most brilliant man on the face of the Earth is disrepecting many millions of men. If he's so brilliant, aren't there better things he could be doing other than making fun of government and the media on a TV show?"

He's reaching audience, making young people who are normally apathetic aware of what's going on, interested in the electoral process, and actually going out there to vote.

And I love how you provide editorials biased towards your view point anyway, when I went further and actually provided direct sources of the man himself in action. Compared to my well thought out post below. You offered nothing.

You fail.

>:)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"I know in the past I've referred to you as a 'douchebag', but that wasn't an air of grandeur, thats just mean and sophomoric." - Jon Stewart
posted @ Sun, Oct 15, 2006 1:42:59 am EDT from 68.202.44.89

Some movies I somehow forgot> Hoosiers, Field of Dreams, Grave of the Fireflies, Vampire Hunter D (1985), Airplane!, The Naked Gun.

I'm surprised no one has listed the first Bionicle movie just because of a certain person who co-wrote it.

Anyone who gives me a youtube anything as a reference is wasting their figurative breath. I absolutely abhor Flash. And I'm on dialup.

I tried to continue watching The Daily Show after Craig Kilborn left, but John Stewart totally turned me off. I haven't watched it, but sporadically a couple times a year, and my view of Stewart hasn't changed.

Greg B.> Reading through your reply, about the only thing you really say is basically summed up in your line "He makes fun of government and the media".

Calling him the most brilliant man on the face of the Earth is disrepecting many millions of men. If he's so brilliant, aren't there better things he could be doing other than making fun of government and the media on a TV show?

Some interesting things I came across when doing a Google of "daily show audience intelligence":
http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/oscars/articles/2006/03/03/why_jon_stewart_isnt_funny/

excerpt from http://www.slate.com/id/2150503
"...Stewart for accepting everything that Musharraf said or wrote in his book as fact."

excerpt from http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=19358&pid=1136
"By the time Stewart had left for the final time, the audience wished they hadn't. Consisting of mostly "dirty jokes," the encore was cheap and below Stewart's level. Stewart's appeal is his intelligence and sophisticated, satiric humor, and he does not need to fall back on dirty jokes to get laughs. Compared to his other material, the last few jokes came off as condescending toward the audience -- exactly that which he preaches so vehemently against in his show."

excerpt from http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/10/05/the-daily-show-october-4-2006/
"How could Jon have possibly been surprised when the audience got all grossed out from his joke about Foley finger-banging two sophomores from Model UN on the catwalk of the rotunda?"

If this is the type of humor (you call this high-brow humor?) to be found on The Daily Show with John Stewart, I'll gladly keep my dial tuned to something other than Comedy Central.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music selection: House of Sand and Fog OST
posted @ Sun, Oct 15, 2006 1:15:44 am EDT from 63.20.30.246

I find myself also reminded of the time that I commented during Edits in TGS that it didn't seem very appropriate for Griff to use the term "Smashing!"
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 9:19:41 pm EDT from 4.245.16.239

Blaise: Where do you find that one? I found this one off youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfP90uJ12eQ

Another Robot Chicken worth watching.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Always be good except when you're bad. Always be happy, except when you're sad." -Jeepers Creepers, Semi-Star
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 8:28:25 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

****A square of light flickers onto one of the walls of the Room. Eventually, a black-and-white Blaise shows up in the "movie." He speaks, but no sound is heard. Instead, a card with text on it shows up every other sentence or so.**** With all the talk of movies, I figured an appropriate entrance was called for. Somehow I saw myself with sound and color. And expensive special effects. Oh well.

KING COBRA> Hey, Happy Birthday man!

MOVIES> Well...to comment too much on this would be beating the proverbial dead horse with a stick.
Suffice it to say, I think people can like a poorly made movie and dislike a well made one just as easily as vice versa (and the criteria for both definitely changes from person to person).
For example: I like the movie LEGEND. It suffers from some major, fundamental flaws (Tom Cruise's rather poor performance, for one) even in its best form (which, for me, is the Director's Cut, but I've known some people to actually prefer the American theatrical version). And yet, I can't help liking it. Maybe it has something to do with Tim Curry as a 13-foot tall devil....
There is an upside to "bad" (or at least popular but problematic) movies: making fun of them.
That comic Harvester pointed out is a good one. Another of my favorites comes from "Robot Chicken" (with Mark Hamill actually voicing Luke):
DARTH VADER: "No Luke, I am your father."
LUKE: "That's not true! That's impossible!!"
DARTH VADER: "And Princess Leia is your sister!"
LUKE: "That's not true! That's...improbable."
DARTH VADER: "And the Empire will be defeated by Ewoks!"
LUKE: "That's...(snort) very unlikely."
DARTH VADER: "And as I child, I built C-3PO!"
LUKE: "Huh?"
(Fade to later, Vader's drinking coffee, Luke's smoking)
DARTH VADER: "And the Force? Well, that's just microscopic bacteria in your bloodstream called 'midichlorions'."
LUKE: "Look, if you're not going to take this seriously, I'm out." (leaves)
As far as I'm concerned, funny jokes and parodies are worth "bad" movies.

Later all! Until then, farewell. ****Blaise's image starts to flicker. There is then a loud "SNAP!" and Blaise's image seems to tear in two. The light remains on the wall for a few seconds before it winks out completely.****
Blaise
"Well, it's nothing very special. Try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations."--Monty Python's Meaning of Life
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 8:22:01 pm EDT from 4.233.120.138

Greg B: And people should be able to come up with their own double entendres as far as "getting stoned" is concerned. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Always be good except when you're bad. Always be happy, except when you're sad." -Jeepers Creepers, Semi-Star
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 8:21:16 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

"Let's All Get Hammered" would be the perfect title for a webcomic about the misadventures of some drunk Quarrymen.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Jon Stewart/Stephen Colbert - 2008
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 8:09:54 pm EDT from 68.202.44.89

Todd: Only if you have to drive somewhere.

Demonskrye: Scroll down a bit, you'll see a few of my thoughts concerning General Grievous and how it factors into George Lucas being a dick.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Always be good except when you're bad. Always be happy, except when you're sad." -Jeepers Creepers, Semi-Star
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 8:07:32 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

Todd: You mean as opposed to "let's get stoned"? ;)
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 7:38:35 pm EDT from 213.187.39.83

KING COBRA - Happy birthday!

WARCRAFTER - Is "Let's all get hammered!" really that appropriate a statement to make in a Gargoyles comment room?
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 7:04:43 pm EDT from 4.245.16.239

HAPPY BIRTHDAY KINGKOBRA. ALRIGHT LETS CELEBRATE, LETS ALL GET HAMMERED!
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 4:59:38 pm EDT from 69.231.229.211

Spen> Thanks. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Today I am 24.
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 4:57:04 pm EDT from 209.239.132.32

Happy birthday, KingCobra!
Spen
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow" - Mark Twain
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 4:21:36 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

I am hoping to see the next 26 episodes of season2 come out on dvd. YAY!
elissa - [:)]
WHEEEEEE!!!!
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 4:20:23 pm EDT from 204.169.52.84

Signatures> Apparently, no one has seen/cares about mine.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Today I am 24.
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 3:45:46 pm EDT from 209.239.132.32

Harvester> Oh don't even get me going on Clone Wars Greivous versus RotS Grievous. Or the Shak Ti thing. Or the....aw forget it. Everyone just go watch "Clone Wars" if you haven't already.
Demonskrye
wants figures of the Nelvan warrior and Shag Gi
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 3:08:19 pm EDT from 209.6.214.28

Greg B: I haven't enjoyed Crossfire that much since I saw that clip of Frank Zappa's guest appearance from 1986.

Demonskrye: Honestly, Palpatine should have kept the same apprentice through all three movies. If it were the same person who both killed Qui Gon AND took Anakin's hand, then maybe seeing Anakin slay him would have been more interesting and plausible. Maybe. But I doubt it, since George Lucas would still have been writing their dialogue. And nice signature, by the way. Always makes me feel like sharing this:

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=150
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"At least the killing part appeals to you, doesn't it?" -Durandal
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 2:58:05 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

Ep 1> I think it would be more on target to say that Darth Maul was a cool character design. He looked neat and his fight scenes were neat with the double bladed lightsaber and all. But you got absolutely no sense of who he was or what kind of personality he had. He showed up a few times, fough with the jedi, killed Qui-Gon, and got cut in half. The merchandise and such built him up to be a really pivotal and important character, but he turned out to be a pretty minor player. He's not Darth Vader, he's Boba Fett. (By which I mean original trilogy, cool design but doesn't have a ton of lines or screen time Boba Fett, not small child, totally ruins your mental image of him from the original trilogy Boba Fett.)
Demonskrye
Skip the prequels and watch "Clone Wars"
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 2:50:07 pm EDT from 209.6.214.28

I'm just wondering if the Beast chameleon gene is as flexible as the Gargoyle gene. Maybe my question is absurd, but it seemed like a good question to me.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 2:18:30 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Why wouldn't garg beasts evolve and adapt to living in a mostly-aquatic environment and still be classified as gargoyles? I'd think they'd qualify as a new kind of sub-species at "worst." Probably a new "race" of gargoyles, but ultimately still able to breed with other types of gargs and produce fertile offspring, which is part of what qualifies a species as a species.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail dot com]
Yea though Wii walk through the valley of the shadow of Sony, I shall fear no PS3...
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 1:57:43 pm EDT from 69.244.247.43

Why not what?
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 1:47:32 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Vaevictis Asmadi-- Again, why not?
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail dot com]
Yea though Wii walk through the valley of the shadow of Sony, I shall fear no PS3...
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 1:46:19 pm EDT from 69.244.247.43

As long as you don't say you anjoyed JarJar himself... *shudder*

This is where I saw the picture of the Japanese Beast:
http://lynativerse.artchicks.org/Screencaps/Gi_Clan.htm
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 1:42:10 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Vaevictis Asmadi> It's one of my faves cause it's the film that invested me more in Star Wars. Darth Maul was also a cool character.

That, and I enjoyed ripping on Jar Jar.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Today I am 24.
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 1:38:15 pm EDT from 209.239.132.32

One more point on Jon Stewart.

Take a look at this. The media is afraid of him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHxGC3aCy6k
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Jon Stewart/Stephen Colbert - 2008
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 12:48:04 pm EDT from 68.202.44.89

Arrgg!! KingCobra, Episode 1 is one of your favorite movies?!?! How?

OK, I really like Miyazaki films. I haven't seen one I didn't like. Mononoke Hime and Nausicaa are awesome.

Anyway, the third Garg-Beast is some critter at Ishimura that I only saw about one screenshot of.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 11:45:00 am EDT from 69.81.211.193

My favorite movies are as follows:

Friday The 13th series, Nightmare On Elm Street series, Scream Trilogy, Final Destination series, Fullmetal Alchemist: Conqurer Of Shambala, From Dusk Till Dawn, High Tension, Halloween, Halloween 2, Halloween 4, Halloween: The Curse Of Michael Myers, Halloween: H20, Stewie Griffin: The Untold Story, DBZ: Bio-Broly, Rush Hour, Star Wars: Episode I and Episode III, Scary Movie 1, Under Siege 2: Dark Territory, the American Pie Trilogy, The Mummy, The Mummy Returns, The Frighteners, Resident Evil, Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2003, TCM: The Beginning, South Park: BLU, Amityville Horror 2005, Blade, The Naked Gun Trilogy, Children Of The Corn, The Crow, The Crow: Salvation, and about 1,000 other titles. Too many to put them all here.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 9:53:08 am EDT from 209.239.132.164

B&CF> Re: Jon Stewart.

Okay, I lost a big post here, and I'll try to re-create it. Sigh, so tedious.

Jon Stewart has been described as both the smartest funny guy on TV, and the funniest smart guy on TV. And it shows. He is smarter, sharper and more on the ball than any one of his guests. He makes fun of government and the media, and let's face it, there's a lot to make fun of. A lot. God knows, he's smarter than any of the pundits, and for a fake news show, he does a better job presenting the news than any of the 24-hour news networks. And, honestly, that says a lot more about them than it does about him.

As he said to Tucker Carlson the day he destroyed Crossfire. Take a look at it. This isn't him being funny, this is him being serious, and sprikling sarcasm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmZkw169xEI

Now, in my experience, there are two kinds of people who think Jon Stewart is an idiot. Not liking him is one thing, but the man is clearly not an idiot.

1. People who don't like high-brow humor. These people, after a long day tend to like to turn off their brain when they get home. They don't want to keep exercising it. But, they like to laugh anyway. For these people, you have low-brow humor like Larry the Cable Guy (I tried watching him once, I felt my brain cells being killed), puppets making crank calls, and crap like that.

2. People more loyal to their political party than their country. The people who sign loyalty pledges to specific candidates, and think everyone should act like a mindless, soulless robotic peon to their elected officials... of course, when an opposing party gets their guy in, the other side is the first to abandon this. Now, Jon has been accused of having a bias, and only attacking one side... these people don't watch his show often enough. He shows both sides for the idiots they are. A lot of people don't like that. They will always be the first to cry "land of freedom. Freedom of speech!", then when someone goes and uses the damn First Amendment, they want him shut up. I tend to think these people are the most dangerous to the country. People who don't stop to think.

He also goes after the media. In fact, the media often offer him more material than even the government can. CNN, MSBC, Fox News. You ever paid attention to any of the talking heads on those networks? There's a reason they could never get a job as real journalists.

The media is afraid of Jon Stewart. Because he is always making them look like idiots. Well, to be fair, they make themselves look like idiots, he just catches it and shows it to the world.

If the government and media want to make him go away, they just need to be less absurd. That's what puts food on his table. The government and media being idiots. Hell, now they're trying to accuse him of destroying democracy by making voters cynical towards the process. Well, I think the politicians and media do it themselves. Jon doesn't make anything up.

Jon also has one of the smartest audiences. According to studies done my major universities. A greater percentage of Jon's viewers understand the issues and what's going on than viewers of CNN and Fox News. And again, that says more about the 24-hour news networks than Jon Stewart. If the show on Comedy Central is doing a better job presenting the news than the 24-hour news networks, than, folks, we are in serious trouble.

Now, for my "credentials" here. I don't believe there is such a thing as an unbiased journalist, so I get my news from a variety of sources, I don't just find the one that most comfortably fits my world view and stick with it. I watch/read CNN, Fox News, the New Your Times, Time Magazine, Newsweek, the New Yorker, Free Republic, MSNBC, the Weekly Standard, salon.com, National Review, and a bunch of others.

Aw well.

Movies> Born on the Fourth of July - I hated it. I thought it was terrible. And, not using it to justify my opinion, but I believe Greg Weisman once listed it as the first movie he ever walked out of.

Schindler's List - Sigh, here's where I get raked over the coals. I liked Liam Neeson, he gave a great performance. But, well, okay, I think it says something that I was a teen when I first saw it, and I saw it with a bunch of Jews (friends of mine) and their parents... we all, all laughed at it. We thought it was weak. I grew up with a Jewish father who crammed the Holocaust down my throat since I first became self-aware. I've seen other, less famous, but far stronger Holocaust films. "Night and Fog" to this day, remains the only movie to ever make me throw up. That was a very strong, very scary movie about the Holocaust. Nothing else ever came close.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Jon Stewart/Stephen Colbert - 2008
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 9:30:05 am EDT from 66.192.104.10

Blaqthorne: <"Jon Stewart (currently the most brilliant man on the face of the Earth)" How so?
From what I've seen of his work, he's one of the biggest flaming idiots on the face of the Earth. Plus, he made The Daily Show unwatchable.>

Hmmmm, this ought to be good... ( ; *sits back in his chair, fingers steepled in front of his face, and waits*

And as for favorite movies: The Usual Suspects, The Seven Samurai, Blade Runner (The Director's Cut), Monty Python and the Holy Grail, The Good the Bad and the Ugly, Casino, Raging Bull, Twelve Angry Men, Godfather, The Devil's Advocate, A Few Good Men, The Maltese Falcon, The Shawshank Redemption, Ghostbusters, Boondock Saints, Network, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Blazing Saddles, and too many more to name here.

Greg B: Why draw and quarter Steven Seagal? Crucifixions need to go back into style (and it might even be more painful).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"At least the killing part appeals to you, doesn't it?" -Durandal
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 8:46:03 am EDT from 69.175.67.68

Vaevictis Asmadi> "We've only seen three Beasts in the series"

*frowns*

Bronx and Boudicca I know of, but I don't recall ever seeing a 3rd beast anywhere in the series.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 7:36:03 am EDT from 209.239.132.164

Gee, last time I checked this is a Gargoyles CR, not a movie CR... I notice this hasn't turned into a Steve Irwin, nor an NHL CR (last two topics people complained about that I can think of).

Greg B> You don't like A Few Good Men at least a little? Which War of the Worlds are you talking about?

"Jon Stewart (currently the most brilliant man on the face of the Earth)" How so?
From what I've seen of his work, he's one of the biggest flaming idiots on the face of the Earth. Plus, he made The Daily Show unwatchable.

Star Wars> Isn't one of the biggest reasons that it was so successful (the original 3) the fact that the SFX were so superior to anything out at the time? Much the same way 2001 blew away everything before it with regards to SFX, SW was that much better than 2001 and everything else.

Since ppl are putting their favorite movies out there> Fantasia, Robot Carnival, Mulan, Fantasia 2000 minus the horrendous bits between the music, Nausicaa, Anastasia, Shawshank Redemption, The Running Man, Urusei Yatsura Movie 2: Beautiful Dreamer, Back to the Future 1 & 3, Life of Brian, Galaxy Express 999, Adieu Galaxy Express 999.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music selection: Pure 3 be natural
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 1:52:06 am EDT from 207.207.40.9

Greg B> Shawshank, my favorite movie, was VERY good, but Forrest Gump WAS better. At least in my opinion.

And as for the movies you listed as "Good" ... well all of them were really good, except for American Psycho. That one was terrible. IMHO.

Titanic. Batman Returns. Dances With Wolves. Forrest Gump. Saving Private Ryan. Napoleon Dynamite. Top Gun. Singing in the Rain. The Matrix 1 Schindler's List. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial. Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Anything with Tom Cruise.

Now give me a break! Dances with Wolves?!?! Schindler's List??? No tell me, what was wrong with those two??? Schindler's list is one of the best movies ever made! And Tom Cruise? well then tyou've never seen Born on the Fourth of July, have you???

I really can't understand your taste in movies. It boggles my mind.

I can't say you're one who like what's bade and hates what's good, because some of the good movies you listed are good.

But Then again I realise that it is each to his or her own.

Still boggles my mind how you can hate Schindler's list though. Just bizaar.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Sat, Oct 14, 2006 1:45:32 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

I mean, adapted without evolving into a totally different species. The Gargoyles have a wide range of appearances based on that chameleon gene thing. Granted they are mostly cosmetic, but at least for Loch Ness I'd think it would be adaptive as well. But is the Gargoyle Beast chameleon gene as flexible? Beyond webbed toes and smooth oily skin, could Garg-Beasts evolve fishtails and such?
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:06:11 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

" I've wondered if Beasts could adapt to living in water as much as Gargoyles do."

Why not? If that's their environment, then why wouldn't they have adapted to optimum survival in it?
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail dot com]
Yea though Wii walk through the valley of the shadow of Sony, I shall fear no PS3...
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:04:03 pm EDT from 69.244.247.43

I mean, as much as Gargoyles could. Keeping in mind that Greg hasn't told us how much they've adapted, beyond having "positively dolphin-esque" hindquarters that may or may not be mermaid fishtails.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:57:49 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

OK, on-topic: Did Greg W. ever say for sure that the Loch Ness clan has Gargoyle Beasts? I've wondered if Beasts could adapt to living in water as much as Gargoyles do. We've only seen three Beasts in the series, so it's hard to tell if they have as much diversity as "regular" Gargoyles.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:56:25 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

The gliding comment was a joke.

Actually, the Balrog with wings debate is one of the longest running debates in Tolkien fandom. I've always been pro-wings myself... but honestly, I'm not in the mood to have this debate, because I honestly don't care too much.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Jon Stewart/Stephen Colbert - 2008
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:53:03 pm EDT from 68.202.44.89

I thought that was Gargoyles?
But falling would preclude gliding. And nowhere did Tolkien declare that they can glide.

Anyway, I read your list of movies you hate and I agree with most of it. Waterworld... ugh. I do like Dances with Wolves and Forrest Gump, but everything else on your list I either hate or have avoided watching.
Did you ever watch Apollo 13?
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:49:11 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

" Balrogs fall off of cliffs or bridges, and besiege walled cities by tunnelling through the walls, and lots of other things that demonstrate they can't fly."

They only glide on currents of wind. There are none strong enough to lift them back up.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Jon Stewart/Stephen Colbert - 2008
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:46:12 pm EDT from 68.202.44.89

The Balrog was described as a humanoid creature, not a thing with hooves and horns. And the flames were way overdone. It was supposed to be mainly made of shadow.
And the wings... don't get me started. Balrogs do not have wings, and they cannot fly. Tolkien mentioned shadow stretching out "like great wings" but he also said Balrogs are shaped like human beings. And in the LotR and Silmrillion, Balrogs fall off of cliffs or bridges, and besiege walled cities by tunnelling through the walls, and lots of other things that demonstrate they can't fly.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:40:50 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

It wasn't the jumping off the cliff that bothered me so much as the very long distance he ran in flames and then jumped. I loved ROTK, but that was one of the stupidest scenes in the whole movie. A shame, I was really looking forward to it.

As for why Gimli suggested not releasing the Dead, I think that was specifically put in, because most of the audience would be asking the same question. Cause, you know, at least 1/4th of the population is retarded.

As for the Balrog, Tolkien described it as a creature of shadow and flame with great wings, a whip and a flaming sword. That's the creature I saw in the movie. I liked most of the creature designs, but I do agree that the Wargs were lame.

And now, it's time for a more interesting list. A list of movies I hate. I guarantee you something you like will be on it.

Independence Day. The Phantom Menace. Attack of the Clones. Armegeddon. The Rock. Titanic. Star Trek V. Star Trek: Nemesis. The Terminator series. Batman Returns. Batman Forever. Batman & Robin. Superman 1, 2, 3, 4, and Returns. Fantastic Four. Catwoman. Electra. Troy. Burton's Planet of the Apes. Dances With Wolves. Waterworld. Forrest Gump. Saving Private Ryan. Battlefield Earth. Gigli. Larry the Cable Guy. Jurassic Park 1, 2 and 3. Jaws the Revenge. Napoleon Dynamite. Top Gun. Singing in the Rain. The Matrix 1, 2, and 3. Schindler's List. Men In Black 2. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial. Close Encounters of the Third Kind. War of the Worlds. Mission Impossible (I never sat through the rest). Dracula 2000. Van Helsing. Anything with Tom Cruise. Pearl Harbor...

... come to think of it, anything by Michael Bay. He's the Osama bin Laden of the film industry.

Aw well, enough with the negatives, here's some more good movies:

A Clockwork Orange. Seven Samurai. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Rear Window. Dr. Strangelove. Psycho. Memento. American Beauty. Chinatown. The Third Man. American Psycho. M. Amadeus. Platoon. Full Metal Jacket. The Deer Hunter. Fargo. Gone With the Wind. Trainspotting. Scarface.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Jon Stewart/Stephen Colbert - 2008
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:32:53 pm EDT from 68.202.44.89

Yeah, I know. But jumping off a cliff was way less dignified. Equally insane, but less dignified.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:08:27 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Greg Bishansky>Haha good point. Hmm ok another strange gargoyle question. If you could create a gargoyle transformer what would it look like and what kind of thing would it change into. *yes i know im wierd*

stewart is greeeeat Only reason I watched it. The emmys are kind of funny out of all the stuff they send us to vote on now. The majority of it is REality tv shows. Yes reality tv shows have there own category now. Its frightening.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:04:58 pm EDT from 4.246.211.245

Vaevictus: Denethor's weakness did lead to his own demise in the book. I think Jackson added the cliff, but at least he was still on fire.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Walking down the gutter thinking how the hell am I today? Well, I din't really ask you, but thanks all the same." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:03:07 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

Yes, he cut the character development scenes, but Peter Jackson also added anti-character scenes. Like how Gimli and Legolas behaved at the Council of Elrond. Or Denethor jumping off a cliff. Or Merry behaving like a hooligan.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 9:52:45 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Well, everyone here already knows how hating George Lucas is my hobby, so I'll just sit this one out...

Okay, I lied. Honestly, the fact that the Clone Wars cartoon (which George Lucas was not directly involved in the creative process of) was far more enjoyable than the prequels should tell us all something. Here's how big of an idiot George Lucas is: the cartoon was nearly finished, and then George Lucas gives Genndy Tartakovsky a call and says "I'm going to turn General Grievous into the king of all pussies in the movie, so you have to give him a breathing problem" (not the exact qoute, but I'm sure it's not far from the real thing). Which is why that scene with Mace Windu was added to the last chapter of the cartoon, and why Greivous went from being an effective villain to a coward who spends most of Episode III sounding like he's doing a bad impression of Triumph the Comic Dog. It's like Greg B once said (I'm pretty sure he said this in some form): George Lucas is like King Midas, except things turn into shit when he touches them.

Todd: I think Gimli's comment to Aragorn was just supposed to be something to ease a tense moment (I think that's what Jackson said in the commentary). Honestly, I will admit that the theatrical releases were missing a lot of scenes that focused on character development, which would detract from them. Sadly, the character development scenes are always the first to be cut (and the directors usually hate to cut them), which is why I'm glad we got the extended editions.

Greg B: The Oscars are usually an overblown puppet show, anyway. Your comments about the 1995 Oscars reminded me of how The Shawshank Redemption received nine nominations (I think it was nine, it's been awhile since I watched the documentary on my DVD), and didn't win any. That alone says volumes.

Oh, and how come you don't seem to have Kurosawa's Rashomon or The Seven Samurai on your list? ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Walking down the gutter thinking how the hell am I today? Well, I din't really ask you, but thanks all the same." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 9:40:42 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

Oops, sorry. I've never heard of her, I was thinking of the Knight of the Round Table who was a werewolf.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 8:09:45 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Oh, and sorry for the double post, but:

MATT - The news about the Hobbit was at a couple of Tolkien sites that include information about the movies. (I can't remember their names just now, unfortunately - I know that one of them was something like TheOneRing.net.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 8:09:32 pm EDT from 4.245.23.228

VAEVICTIS - Actually, Arthur's squire in TGS is a girl. (Read Seasons Three and Four of "TGS: Pendragon", and you'll see what I mean.)

MATT - One other weak point of the movie version of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields (which your post just reminded me of) was that it had Eowyn slaying the Witch-King and Aragorn arriving in the Corsairs' ships happening at the same time, with the result that the audience gets its attention divided between the two events and can't focus on first one, then the other. I think that it would have been wiser to have had the black ships show up after Eowyn and Merry had dealt with the Witch-King and then the battle starts tilting against Gondor and Rohan again even after the Witch-King's death.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 8:07:20 pm EDT from 4.245.23.228

The Oliphaunt, Cave-Troll, and "Balrog" were cool in a D&D monster way, but they bore no resemblance whatsoever to the creatures described in the book. Well, the Cave-Troll did slightly, I guess.

I think George Lucas' problem, besides all the fugly CGI junk, was that he let his fame get to his head. He stopped caring about the story, and started caring about making something popular, and putting silly quips in like "I hate it when he does that" and such. That, and he forgot to let somebody else write the dialogue.
When you don't know if you'll do well, you try very hard and put your heart into it. When you know millions of people will worship your work no matter what, I think you tend to put less heart and soul into it.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 8:06:38 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Count me in as another person who used to like Star Wars a lot but has shrugged it off due to George Lucas. The man made one good movie (Episode IV) and should've let others take it from there. As for the prequels, well, he should've spent less time with his digital crap and more time with his typewriter...

Oh, and Greg B, I'll agree with you on some things, Jon Stewart is pretty cool and most movies are crap, but I won't agree that Dances with Wolves is one of those movies. I think it's great, though I'm not sure if I would've voted for it or Shawshank. Shawshank Redemption is a great movie too. All of this is my own worthless and hopelessly subjective opinion, of course.

LOTR> I think in general Merry was shown to be the more responsile hobbit, at least compared to Pippin. I didn't much like the designs of the Wargs either, but I thought the Oliphants, Cave Troll and Balrog were all pretty good. My one complaint about the LOTR movies is that in the Battle of Pelenor Fields, the arrival of the invincible Army of the Dead seemed anticlimatic. It's like, okay, they are here, the bad guys have no chance. An easy win.

Todd> Where have you heard all that about the Hobbit?!?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 8:02:18 pm EDT from 70.135.18.121

He'd probably be even more bothered that in the Silmarillion, the major four-legged bad-guys are called "werewolves." And for no apparent reason, I mean there's no indication anywhere in the book that they could acutally shapeshift. The only time something like that happened was a *human* using a werewolf-skin to shapeshift *into* wolf form.
But yeah, Peter Jackson clearly got his mind infected by D&D at a young age, he turned all the monsters into D&D things that look like several fossil species pasted together in anatomically unreasonable ways. Which is fine if that's the look you're aiming for, but ruins some of the Middle-Earth feel.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 7:57:02 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Making the wargs look hyena-like rather than wolf-like is all the worse in light of the fact that "warg" is actually an old-fashioned word for "wolf".

(If this was the TGS comment room, I'd probably have followed that with a remark about how a certain squire of King Arthur's would certainly be pleased that they made the "bad guy animals" something other than wolves.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 7:39:56 pm EDT from 4.245.23.228

Making the wargs into giant hyenas and the oliphaunts into six-tusked mastodons wouldn't have looked so stupid if it had just been an interpretation of unclear descriptions. But Peter Jackson deliberately discarded the clear descriptions that Tolkien gave those creatures, and for the Cave Troll and Balrog as well.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 7:23:04 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

I seriously doubt that even Demona would eat humans. Of course, her reason for not eating them would be "I'm not putting one of those disgusting things in my mouth! What do you think this is, Fear Factor?"

I'm staying out of the Star Wars discussion simply because I've only seen the first movie, and that one a little under thirty years ago, so I'm hardly qualified to discuss it (though I did read about Alec Guiness telling the kid to stop seeing the "Star Wars" movies some years ago). One or two more thoughts, however, about "The Lord of the Rings" movies.

One character whom I think definitely got distorted in the first movie was Merry. In the book, he's portrayed as one of the more responsible hobbits; his first appearance in it has him helping Frodo sort out the confusion at Bag End following Bilbo's departure (including dealing with Lobelia Sackville-Baggins when she shows up and wants to see Frodo *now*), and afterwards he does a fine job of organizing the hobbits' journey from Crickhollow through the Old Forest and explains a lot about the trees (though, granted, they still wind up needing Tom Bombadil's help in getting out of that mess). In the movie, he's introduced stealing one of Gandalf's fireworks with Pippin as a "partner in crime", and he and Pippin even join Frodo, not deliberately as a result of their figuring out what's going on, but because they inadvertently bump into him while being chased by Farmer Maggot for stealing his vegetables. (Though the latter is an inevitable consequence of Peter Jackson deciding to have Frodo leave immediately after Gandalf tells him about the Ring's true nature.)

The movie also inflates what I honestly believe to be a possible flaw in the book - Aragorn suddenly taking over the story from the hobbits so that it becomes less about whether Frodo can get the Ring to the Cracks of Doom and more over whether Aragorn can and will reclaim his throne and whether he's going to wind up with Arwen or Eowyn. I also wish that they'd given Denethor a far more dignified death-scene (in fact, the way that they show it in the movie, they almost make it appear as if Gandalf shoves him into the pyre - conspiracy theorists would have a field-day insinuating that Gandalf is deliberately disposing of one of Aragorn's chief rivals for him). Another element that I think would have been better left out was Theoden complaining that Gondor's made no effort to come to Rohan's aid against Saruman (there's no indication that he ever sent any messages to Minas Tirith about Saruman's attacks in the first place) - and, while I'm at it, Gimli suggesting to Aragorn that he break his promise to set the Army of the Dead free (a suggestion that seems all the more out of place when you remember how the Army of the Dead wound up in their undead state to begin with).

Visually, I think that the movie looks good (though I also disagree with some of its design decisions, such as making the Wargs look like prehistoric hyenas). But I think that the script could have been improved in many places.

Incidentally, there's now much talk about making a movie out of "The Hobbit" at last - but as a two-parter. (I honestly don't see why you'd need two movies to tell the story of "The Hobbit"; the book isn't *that* long.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 6:45:07 pm EDT from 4.245.23.228

I woke up with a black cat on my head and my path has been crossed by her ever since.

(Her name is Nocturne. And waking up with her on my head happens pretty much every day.)
Stormy
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 6:30:01 pm EDT from 142.167.199.51

A small single-color tattoo from a stock pattern might take an hour and cost fifty dollars. A complex custom design involving multiple colors might easily require numerous sessions and cost beaucoup bucks. If you're going to go that route and sit there letting someone poke you repeatedly with a very sharp needle to produce an image you're going to carry with you for the rest of your life... I sure would shop around first, check references, and find someone who knows what they're doing.

252 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 5:59:39 pm EDT from 66.72.203.217

SHARA> I think different gargoyles like different things. Why would they all have the same favorite food?

Though Castaway would tell you they like to eat people.

As for the Oscars, I agree with you. The most recent show was a good one though, because, as I said, Jon Stewart hosted, and did a great job, which is expected because Jon is made of Pure Awesome.

As I said before, Jon Stewart is the most brilliant man on the face of the Earth. David Xanatos wishes he could be that brilliant.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Jon Stewart/Stephen Colbert - 2008
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 5:40:41 pm EDT from 68.202.44.89

Greg Bishansky >I seriously do not go by the oscars or emmys anymore. One of my family members won a emmy for hair and make up on dark shadows back in the 80's. SO I know the voting process for emmys because each year we are sent dvd's of everythig that is up for an emmy to watch and vote on. As far as oscars that is so a party for the movie stars. They dont even care really about the movies anymore.

As for star wars I agree with you. There fun movies.I still dont see what is so great about them. But I guess the reason they are is cause the orginal ones used some high technology back then to be made.

Haha back on the subject of gargoyles.. Ninja turtles fav food is pizza. So what is a gargoyles fav food?
Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 5:12:34 pm EDT from 4.246.213.165

Is there any update if Season 2, Volume 2 might be released in the near future? The last comment I could find on any site about it was from August '06 and it said it was "in danger of not being released". Any new news?
Wendy - [ladybug2wendy at yahoo dot com]
Wendy
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 5:02:53 pm EDT from 198.186.64.22

Kythera> Valid good points that I will remember if I ever at some point decide to get a 2nd tattoo. I already picked up a potential image for this one, though.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 1:10:02 pm EDT from 209.239.132.64

KingCobra-- Tattoos, like other types of comissioned art, are not necessarilly cheap. Consider how many hours it takes, and that you're not likely to be paying them minimum wage. ;)

Also, the tattoo artist can scale the image to fit you, yanno. They have the power!
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 1:04:44 pm EDT from 65.169.99.145

*returns*

Anywhere from $50 to thousands of dollars.

Oy vey.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 12:25:48 pm EDT from 209.239.132.64

The second Star Wars trilogy, on the other hand, mostly just resembled toe lint.
That and George Lucas' silliness somewhat ruined the old Star Wars movies for me, too.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 12:22:36 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

ED> Sometimes awards mean something, I haven't been interested in the Oscars really until this past year. Crash rightfully won, and Jon Stewart (currently the most brilliant man on the face of the Earth) was hosting the Oscars.

But, I think one of the biggest Oscar upsets was in 1991, when that piece of crap, Dances With Wolves beat Goodfellas (probably my all time favorite movie) for Best Picture.

1995 was also bad withh, ugh, Forrest Gump beating both Pulp Fiction and the Shawshank Redemption.

I'd love to continue this debate, but, right now, this pretentious film school student needs to get to his Lighting class.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Jon Stewart/Stephen Colbert - 2008
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 12:20:05 pm EDT from 68.202.44.89

Well I wasn't claiming Star Wars are the best movies ever made. And I should have been more specific. They weren't mythology, they were based on mythology and written to resemble mythology more than fantasy or scifi.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 12:16:36 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Sigh, Star Wars was not mythology. And if it was, it was by accident. It came out at the right time. If they came out today, they would not have nearly the same impact.

They borrowed a lot from much better sources. Kirosawa for one. Metropolis, lots of better sources. Even the infamous Darth Vader was ripped from a better villain named Dr. Doom. Too bad, Doom's debut on the silver screen was a complete abortion.

Star Wars was a popcorn movie, a very good popcorn movie, but a popcorn movie all the same. It came out at the right time, and made an impact. But they're not the greatest movies ever made. Not even close. I dunno, I used to love them a lot more than I do, and I still like them. But I think the hype, and George Lucas himself killed it for me.

Ever read Alec Guinness's memoirs? He tells a story about being in America when a mother and her kid come up to him, and the kid wants an autograph. The kid says he's seen Star Wars over 100 times. Guinness puts his hand on the kids shoulder and says "I'll give you an autograph if you promise me you'll never watch it again." Kid runs off crying.

That reminds me, "The Bridge on the River Kwai" is another great movie.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 12:13:02 pm EDT from 68.202.44.89

Greg B.> Well then, I guess my taste tends to lean towards stupid-but-fun movies.

BRB. I've got to call this tattoo place. I'm thinking about getting a Lex tattoo, mainly cause A) between him and Brooklyn, Lex is smaller and can probably fit on my upper arm better, and B) I've been wanting a tattoo for nearly a year now, and am just now having time to get it.

Hopefully, the place is affordable.

*leaves comp long enough to use the phone*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 12:04:53 pm EDT from 209.239.132.64

Greg: That notwithstanding, I enjoy it. It's probably one of the first I'd chuck if I was editing that list down, but I think it was an important movie of its time and is a great watch today. As for the awards, well, I don't take them remotely seriously anyway. Look at the rubbish that won in 2003! ;) (Oh, which reminds me, Lost in Translation. Oh heck, I'm going to be thinking of films I forgot all weekend now...)
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 12:02:52 pm EDT from 213.187.39.83

I generally agree with Ed about Star Wars. It was mythology. Although the acting and dialogue in the original trilogy could have been better.

Erin Brockovitch -- I need to see that movie.

Superstition: I'm not superstitious but it's not a great idea to walk under a ladder, it could fall on you.
Black cats are only the object of superstition because in the Middle Ages people assumed cats were the familiars of Satan-worshipping witches.
I have a black cat but he's got a white tummy, white feet, and a white nose. And he's way too lazy to be anyone's familiar -- even supposing he were more clever than he acts.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 12:01:08 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

KH> The first Die Hard movie is really the only one worth watching. The third one is fun, but, eh. The first one has atmosphere, is well done, has a good script, has Alan Rickman as one of the best screen villains ever. The claustrophobic feel makes you really feel for the characters.

The third one is more stupid, action movie garbage. More fun than most, but still garbage.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 12:01:04 pm EDT from 68.202.44.89

Ed> Thanks. I tried. :P

Greg B.> I agree about Bruce Willis. The Die Hard series, especially DH With A Vengence, is one of the greatest action movies ever made.

I wonder how well you would enjoy it if the Gargoyles Movie were to ever come to fruition?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:57:51 am EDT from 209.239.132.64

ED> "Kramer vs Kramer"???

I will always remember that as the movie that stole Best Picture from another movie. A much better movie. It was called APOCALYPSE NOW.

I can't believe I forgot to put Apocalypse Now on my list there. Well, it's on now.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:56:44 am EDT from 68.202.44.89

King Cobra> I like the ones who can act and have made GOOD movies. I like Bruce Willis a lot. Antonio Banderas was great in "Desperado" and "Once Upon a Time in Mexico". Hugh Jackman is really good (though Van Helsing sucked balls).

Just about everyone Quentin Tarantino has used is great.

I don't despise action movies. I despise bad movies. And most movies, no matter the genre, are bad.

I personally think Michael Bay should be killed. He is the worst thing to ever happen to the movie industry.

Look at my list of movies I like, I think I listed a lot, and there are more that aren't on that list that I like a lot.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:52:40 am EDT from 68.202.44.89

Star Wars and the Godfather are like apples and oranges though.

I think the original Star Wars trilogy is one of the greatest set of films ever made, but I don't think it's necessarily the best in many respects, nor necessarily my favourite. But in capturing simple, powerful mythic stories, amazing visuals, memorable villains and high points of emotion, great music and tremendous charisma, the Star Wars films sculpted out a special place for themselves in cinema. They are a true movie experience, they hit a nerve in the culture. They spark imagination and dreams, they resonate with all ages. It's a superb modern mythology. You can sneer at it for being simplistic in places, but I don't personally think there's any shame in being visceral over 'deep'. Art is as often about emotion as anything else and it's rare that films can inspire wonder and awe. Same with the Terminator films: they're the perfect thriller, the most simple and elegant concept, wonderfully paced. Just fantastic (well, 1 & 2 slightly more than 3).

The Godfather films are clearly better movies. Some of the most skilful writing, directing and acting to come out of America in the 20th century. I must admit that personally, I don't really enjoy them. I just find the genre uncompelling. Same with a lot of gangster and western films: Unforgiven, the Dollars trilogy, Goodfellas etc. But I can see they're working at a higher level.

For kicks, my list of favourite movies which are also great movies (excluding ones like those I mentioned above which I think are great movies but aren't my favourite).

2001: A Space Oddysey, Aladdin, Alien, All the President's Men, American Beauty, Arsenic and Old Lace, Batman Begins, Casablanca, Citizen Kane, Don Juan, Duck Soup, The Day the Earth Stood Still, Erin Brockovitch (definitive of its type), The Exorcist, The Falklands Play, Faust, Insomnia, Gone With the Wind, Goodnight Mr Chips (1939), Great Expectations (1946), Groundhog Day, Hotel Rwanda, The Incredibles, In the Heat of the Night, In Which We Serve, It's A Wonderful Life, Judgment at Nuremberg, Kramer vs Kramer, The Life of Brian, The Lion King, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, M, Mary Poppins (despite the accent issue), Memento, Monkey Business, Monty Python & the Quest for the Holy Grail, Mrs Doubtfire, Mr Smith Goes To Washington, A Night At the Opera, Night of the Hunter, A Night to Remember, The Odessa File, The Omen, Pinnochio, Psycho, Pulp Fiction, Rebecca, Rebel Without A Cause, Resevoir Dogs, Serenity, The Shawshank Redemption, The Shining, The Silence of the Lambs, Snow White And the Seven Dwarves, Spider-Man, Spirited Away, The Sword in the Stone, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (underrated), The Terminator 'trilogy' (T3 is slightly off the pace but still tremendous fun), Traffic, Watership Down, The Wicker Man (original), The Wizard of Oz.

KingCobra: Most subtle birthday hint ever there. *salutes* ;)
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:50:28 am EDT from 213.187.39.83

Greg B.> Wow. You really despise Action movie actors, don't you?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:48:10 am EDT from 209.239.132.64

KING COBRA> Steven Seagal should be drawn and quartered. Horrible actor, terrible movies. Jean Claude Van Damme can be drawn and quartered too.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:45:35 am EDT from 68.202.44.89

Battle Beast> With my mentality, I hear the words "Friday The 13th" and I automatically think about a huge, decayed guy wearing a battered Hockey Mask and wielding a Machete.

:P
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:39:37 am EDT from 209.239.132.64

HAPPY FRIDAY THE THIRTEENTH EVERYONE! Make sure today you find that black cat and cross it's path. Sign that important work contract under a ladder and drop that antique mirror right out your bedroom window with an up-side-down horseshoe! Tack a five-leaf clover to your vest and see your new bride minutes berfore your wedding!

Anyway, I have a black ferret, but it's not a cat... it may do... and I have a big ladder at work, so that will do too.

Do any of you belive in superstitions?

I wonder how the clan feel about things like Friday the 13th? They must have had many superstitons back in Scotland, right?

What do you think?
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:34:54 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

*glances at the calender to confirm that tomorrow is, indeed, his 24th birthday before re-focusing on the CR*

Greg B.> How are you on Steven Seagal?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:27:32 am EDT from 209.239.132.64

Then I hope he stays governor for a very, very long time.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:23:46 am EDT from 68.202.44.89

Greg B> *re-reads it*

You're right. I missed that part. My bad.

The thing about Arnie is once he's eventually finished as California Governor, he may return to movies.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:21:41 am EDT from 209.239.132.64

KC> Oh, and I have seen GOdfather 3, I even said in my post that I saw it and it was bad.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:15:56 am EDT from 68.202.44.89

KC> And I think they are shallow, action, over the top spectacles. I don't like them at all, and the best thing about Arnold Schwartzenegger being a politician now means he's no longer making movies.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:14:50 am EDT from 68.202.44.89

Batman Begins was pretty cool, I liked it.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:08:44 am EDT from 69.81.211.193

Greg B> Maybe T3 was a bit of a time-waster. Slightly.

But, c'mon, T1 and T2 are classics. Especially T2.

I noticed Godfather 3 wasn't on your list. I take it you either have never seen it or you have but didn't care for it.

*glances @ the TV where Cartman is singing "Kyle's mom is a stupid..." and chuckles.

Matt> What WOULD you consider a good movie, if there even is any in your perspective?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 11:03:11 am EDT from 209.239.132.64

Cobra> I'd call it a terrible movie. It and its sequels.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:56:54 am EDT from 68.202.44.89

Matt> So-called Great movies, eh?

Would you call The Terminator a 'so-called great movie'?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:33:25 am EDT from 209.239.132.64

All movies suck. There I said it. LOL

:)

I think most of you are talking less about so-called great movies and more about movies you personally liked. This is such a subjective topic, I'm not sure what the point of it is. It's like if everyone in here started ranting about their favorite color and what makes a certain color inferior or superior.

I guess you are all having fun, and that's all good. I'm not complaining, just putting down my two cents, like everyone else...

South Park was a pretty awesome movie though... IMHO.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:26:48 am EDT from 70.246.136.15

Greg B> I agree with you on some of those movies.

The Lord Of The Rings Trilogy, Kill Bill 1 and 2, The Shining (I assume you're referring to the 1980 version), Shaun of The Dead, Star Trek II, X-men 2, Silence Of The Lambs, and (Especially) South Park: BLU.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 10:19:55 am EDT from 209.239.132.64

If we're talking over-hyped movies that don't deserve it, it is the original Star Wars movies. Thats right, I said it.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Star Wars, and the Empire Strikes Back. Return of the Jedi was a piece of trash though (let's see how long Sobotka takes to ask me if I could do better). They're fun popcorn movies, but that's really all they are. Clunky dialogue, two dimensional characters, bad acting. Their best performance came from Sir Alec Guiness, and he despised the series.

Yeah, they are fun popcorn movies, but they don't deserve the THIRTY YEARS of hype they've been getting.

Let's take another famous film trilogy that started in the 1970s. The Godfather. It's gotten a lot of hype also, but it's been a lot more subtle. Less in-your-face. People know who the characters are, and some of the more famous lines without necessarily ever seeing them. But, these films (well, the first two, like Star Wars, it suffers from a terrible third act) are well written, well directed, well acted, have all the elements a great and classic movie needs.

As a film fan, and someone who is always righ ;), heres a list of what I think are truly great movies.

Goodfellas, The Usual Suspects, Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Kill Bill Vol 1 and 2, Citizen Kane, Sin City, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, Titus, Casino, The Godfather 1 & 2, The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (just to annoy Ed ;)), Casablanca, Pirates of the Carribean, The Shining, Shaun of the Dead, Leon the Professional, Jaws, Batman Begins, Alien, Aliens, True Romance, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, X-Men 2, Se7en, The Silence of the Lambs, Crash, Gangs of New York, Clerks, Chasing Amy, Requiem For a Dream, Good Night and Good Luck, Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
Raiders of the Lost Ark, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Annie Hall, Rififi, The Maltese Falcon, Marathon Man, Laurence of Arabia, The Last Temptation of Christ, Rosemary's Baby, South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
Tony Stark is a Fascist
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 9:49:44 am EDT from 68.202.44.89

TGS CR is working again. Sorry about that. The bees have been removed.
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 8:27:55 am EDT from 207.206.246.240

I think the LOTR films are poor, but it's not because they made changes to the book. Indeed, much as I love the book, I think they could have changed it a lot more and made better films, capturing the essence of the original rather than the literal outlay of events. That's what I expect filmmakers to do. (The Two Towers was the only one that almost held it together in places). But most of the changes were just rubbish -- tedious filler to flog us some merchandise or show off the SFX team. The pacing lacked urgency, the dialogue was flat and lacking in poetry, the characters so shallowly characterised it was hardly worth bothering to cast actors; not helped by some very mixed casting, uneven performances, overrated CGI, and the soundtrack so repetitive I wanted to get my walkman out at one point before the same three tracks looped around again. No soul or genuine emotion, no sense of beauty or optimism or joy, no subtlety or terror or suspense. Just a soup of action scenes and SFX and loud bangs and people giving long looks that made them come across as constipated. Easily the most overhyped nonsense of the last few years.

The best LOTR adaptation I've come across is probably the BBC Radio adaptation.

I think there have been a few hyped films lately where the hype is deserved though. Most obviously, Batman Begins. Magnificent film and I've never really been into Batman. But I love Nolan and he only exceeded my ridiculously high expectations. Also, I was pleasantly surprised by the Narnia film. I had, frankly, pretty low expectations, but I found the film delightful.
Ed
"It's important that everyone remain calm." -- Matt Bluestone, "Nightwatch"
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 5:44:14 am EDT from 213.187.39.83

battlebeast> Haha I guess I will say then that todays movies that are popular books get butchered alot.

Gone with the wind was a great movie. Though that sequal they made to it needed it work.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 3:25:16 am EDT from 4.245.123.136

Shara> I've seen many good books get GREAT treatments without buchering them. Gone with the Wind, Harry Potter 1 & 2, born on the fourth of July... to name a couple...

Jurassic park ... all the besr stuff was taken out.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 2:14:01 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Vaevictis Asmadi> Haha ok . I was just wondering. Cause I was thinking about when I went to europe and lost a day. Hope to meet you at a gathering at some point. I'm usually in the dealers room at the webcomic booth.

Harvester>Yes lord of the rings was worth the hype. The only problem I had with it was the last one when they used the computer to have legolas attack one of the elephant looking things. That was soooooooooooooo fake looking it was horribley done computer animation. My opinion of computer animation is that if you cant blend it in with the movie they dont use it in that scene.

For example narnia was a movie that I actuly enjoyed with computer animation because of the way they blended it so nothing looked like you could point your finger and say " look mom a computer did that"
Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 13, 2006 12:35:18 am EDT from 4.245.123.136

I am not bothered by changes that had to speed things up or remove parts of the book for the sake of length. But a lot of long-time fans of the books (who are more familiar with the LotR book than I am) told me that many of the major characters in the movie are nothing whatsoever like the characters they loved in the books, and that the movies didn't stay true to the spirit of the books at all. I think this problem was greatest in the Two Towers, but it happened in all three movies.
Visually I think it was pretty awesome except a few parts: the Balrog, the hyena "wargs", and Sauron as a floating eyeball.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 11:04:28 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Sowwy, I tried :-(
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 10:55:29 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

I tried the shift trick too; Bees are still apparently attacking TGS.
Lynati
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 9:23:44 pm EDT from 70.243.161.38

Vaevictus: Funny. I didn't mind a lot of the changes to the films, mostly because (and Jackson even admits this in the commentary) they had to speed certain things up because in the books, a very long amount of time passes between some events, time that works too slowly for film narrative.

Todd: One of the more amusing moments in Peter Jackson's commentary for "The Two Towers" (which, for some reason, your reflection on speed of travel reminded me of) was that he said that in the Japanese release of the film, the distributor did something funny in the scene when Gandalf tells Aragorn right before departing from Rohan to watch for a sign out of the east, or something to that extent. At this moment, I don't remember chapter and verse what Gandalf said. I do remember that Jackson said the subtitle for the film's release in Japan read "at that time, I shall return with Eomer." Jackson found that darkly amusing because basically, it was ruining the suspense for Japanese audiences.

Overall, I was wary when the first one came out before I saw it, because I had looked forward to movies before and usually gotten burned (e.g., "The Phantom Menace"). But for the other two LOTR movies, I went into the theater with high expectations and was stunned that they were actually met.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I'm just a Baker Street Muse... I CAN'T GET OUT!!" -Ian Anderson.
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 9:09:14 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

I enjoyed the LotR movies, but the director made huge changes to the plot and characters that a lot of fans hated. And I don't mean just making it short enough for movies.
I didn't like some of the casting choices -- Elrond was horrible. And the Balrog looked more like a D&D monster than a demon out of Hell.
Fun movies, but they would have been better if they were more faithful to the books.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 8:31:55 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

HARVESTER - Though the LotR movies had a few weak points as well, such as each one having a scene where people got to a certain location too quickly. (FELLOWSHIP: The Orcs in Moria show up so quickly after Pippin knocks that skeleton in the well that they must have been next door. TWO TOWERS: The elvish archers from Lothlorien leave for Helm's Deep after Saruman's army leaves Isengard - Lothlorien is further away from Helm's Deep than Isengard is - but they get there first. RETURN OF THE KING: Elrond also makes it from Rivendell to Dunharrow with Anduril with unbelievable speed.) Though I still rather enjoy them.

I'd certainly like to know more about just why the Illuminati - and Duval, in particular - want the gargoyles. (I'd also like to know more about how Duval reconciles his role as guardian of the Holy Grail - a position that required very strong moral standards - and the head of a secret society that engages in all sorts of unethical activities.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 7:48:56 pm EDT from 4.244.215.155

Shara: The last thing I saw that was really worth all of the hype that it received was Lord of the Rings.

Todd: And again, given Percival's background (and the fact that he had to have known gargoyles from Arthur's court, and is probably familiar with their nature), one has to wonder what's spurring his interest.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I'm just a Baker Street Muse... I CAN'T GET OUT!!" -Ian Anderson.
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 6:18:13 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

Shara, I was working from a response which Greg wrote a long time ago in which he said Avalon Gargoyles could potentially breed more often than Earth Gargoyles. Matt and I misinterpreted that and started trying to hypothesise how often they could breed. We turned out to be wrong, but from the information we had at the time it was a logical conclusion.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 4:42:14 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Wingless : Nope, still doesn't work.
Spen
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow" - Mark Twain
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 4:36:18 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

Battle Beast>I dont think it was speilburgs fault. Like most of hollywood they had ot edit out certin parts because the movie had to be a certin time length. that and it couldnt go into the field of GORE.

It was a purty decent movie remember back then they still did'nt have the full technology they had now however I liked the move till they started over hyping it and doing jurassic park 2 and 3.

Though I Tend not to like movies that are over advertized and hyped up. I really did'nt like Titanic, or any of the new star wars movies. Sure there where parts in the new starwars movies that I did like but I think they over did it with the new technology.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 3:42:58 pm EDT from 4.245.122.199

Greg W> My boyfriend and I plan on coming to see you when you are in Kansas City. Have a good time In Memphis.

Todd> The thing is, we know Duval is trying to get in contact with Xanatos, but we have no idea what Duval wants to say to him. Perhaps most of the Society wants the Gargoyles for whatever reason, but Duval knows better and is trying to warn Xanatos. I think that alone would make Duval's relationship to the higher ranking Society members very interesting indeed.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 3:33:57 pm EDT from 70.246.134.141

Vaevictis Asmadi> The breeding issue
I dont understand your logic of making avalon gargs be every 40 years.

The gargs would be the same no matter where they where. 20 years. Hoever on avalon time is diffrent so they are just following the time zone diffrence. It's like when you fly to Europe but you live in America and you loose a day of sleep. Still doe'snt mean your birthday changes.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 3:33:26 pm EDT from 4.245.122.199

Nessa Mouse> Send it to http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/
Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 3:29:35 pm EDT from 4.245.122.199

Greetings all...

At the suggestion of a friend, I'm asking if anyone is interested, to visit the link to my LJ. The entry there will explain everything, and let me just say "thanks" in advance for anyone that does read it.

# # #

Re: ROOKERY/EGGS -- The math is somewhat over my head . . . but I'm thinking that the Avalon Clan will be producing eggs out of synch with the rest of the world, by being on their own cycle while in Avalon?

Maintain and Check Six.
Stephen Sobotka Jr
Please Read . . . Can You Help?
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 1:22:26 pm EDT from 71.99.234.73

Spen & Harvester of Eyes: Gorebash did some work on the comment rooms yesterday to cut down on spammers stealing email addresses, not to mention he cut down on the spam in the chat room in S8 Gargs-at laaaaast. You might want to try doing a refresh of the page you type your information on - just hold the shift key as your refresh the page and see if that helps(every time you visit a web page, some of the information is saved on your computer - but by doing the shift/refresh-this completely reloads the page thus fixing any code changes).
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 12:08:54 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

Off-topic> Does anyone know if or where I can acquire a burned CD/DVD of the music videos from G2006? Thanks.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 8:10:01 am EDT from 209.239.132.103

Well, Duval called Xanatos on the phone in person in "The Journey", so I think we can safely assume that he's taking a direct interest in the situation. (A very strong interest, indeed, for him to personally call Xanatos - who, remember, is a lower-echelon member; under those circumstances, one would normally expect somebody who's between Xanatos and Duval on the chain of command to make the phone call.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 7:49:55 am EDT from 4.244.213.109

Spen: <or is it just my computer acting up?>

Negative. It's doing the same thing on mine. I'm not sure if you should contact Gorebash or the CR Admins.

DPH: It was interesting the way that was worded. Although I don't think that the Society's interest in gargoyles would have died with Mace Malone. Again, it raises the question: Percival is likely familiar with the nature of gargoyles, so we either have to question why he's allowing the capture of one, or wonder as to how much control he really has anymore over his creation.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"What IS the range on teleportation, anyway? Kinda sketchy..."
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 7:06:37 am EDT from 69.175.67.68

I think there might be something wrong with the TGS CR. When I try to post a message, it says that "bees are attacking the server" and won't post the message. I know I typed the code correctly, so is this a problem that everyone has, or is it just my computer acting up?
Spen
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow" - Mark Twain
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 2:54:11 am EDT from 216.248.119.208

Um, since "ask Greg" isn't accepting new questions I thought I'd just ask this here. Does anybody know a place to submit Gargoyles inspired Flash? I'm still just learning how to make Flash, but I'll learn quicker if I have something good to work with. Like Gargoyles fanflash. :) I could easily submit it to newgrounds.com, but I want to make sure as many Garg fans see it as possible. Anybody know a site?
Thankies:)
Nessa Mouse - [priestessofthoth at yahoo dot com]
Mouse Love!
posted @ Thu, Oct 12, 2006 1:21:15 am EDT from 67.72.98.102

I want to say a big thanks to Greg Weisman for answering my is question. As big as a society as the IS is (or as I imagine it is) and with the secrecy involved, it would be hard to tell if it was one high ranking member's fancy to capture a gargoyle or if it was the society as a whole wanting to capture a gargoyle.

125 questions until the 1st 2005 gathering journal and literally, the last 2005 gathering journal is the last question from 2005, which is 189 questions away.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Oct 11, 2006 11:36:26 pm EDT from 71.29.247.83

Greg W.> Have fun there. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Oct 11, 2006 9:11:47 pm EDT from 209.239.132.83

Oops. LOL

Yes Jurgan, don't you know this year is 1996?

Ack, I actually laughed until I choked. Your reaction was great.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Wed, Oct 11, 2006 8:44:01 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

A Memphis Reminder...

This weekend I'll be at Con-Sequential in Memphis, TN.

I'm participating in panels on Gargoyles, writing comics and cartoons, strong female characters and self-promotion. I'm also doing two signings, and I'll have a table manned by staffers from the Gathering 2007.

For more info on Con-Sequential check out:

http://www.Con-Sequential.com/

Hope to see a few of you there, and if you make it please stop by and say hello!
Greg Weisman
Appearing in TN annually since 2006...
posted @ Wed, Oct 11, 2006 8:02:47 pm EDT from 72.25.64.98

I was certainly impressed by just how many questions Greg was able to answer today. And now he's finally reached 2005. Well done, Greg!
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Oct 11, 2006 6:50:55 pm EDT from 4.244.211.231

Hmmm, that explains a lot of the extra spam I've been getting. Kinda makes me want to dust off my Viking helmet and fire up the baked beans.
Harvester of Eyes
"What IS the range on teleportation, anyway? Kinda sketchy..."
posted @ Wed, Oct 11, 2006 5:51:35 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

Actually, I just looked at the last entry in the queue and I think it's actually 2004.
Demonskrye
A decade here, a decade there.
posted @ Wed, Oct 11, 2006 5:40:21 pm EDT from 209.6.214.28

Greg's answering questions from 1994? Wow, I knew he was behind, but dang...
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Oct 11, 2006 3:45:10 pm EDT from 153.9.92.48

Just 10 questions left from 1994!
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Wed, Oct 11, 2006 12:36:09 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

And I'm going to try something new with the e-mail address field to see about stopping spammers from picking up addresses with automated programs.
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Wed, Oct 11, 2006 9:22:35 am EDT from 207.206.247.230

Don't mind me. Just making sure I can still post after mucking about with the underlying code. If anyone finds any bits of things that don't seem to work for them CR-wise just let me know.
Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
posted @ Wed, Oct 11, 2006 9:10:45 am EDT from 207.206.247.230

Matt: I liked the first Jurassic Park until I read the book. Then I realized that Spielberg turned one of the most insightful characters in the book into a comic relief. That, and it looked like he was pushing Crichton's main theme off to the side a bit to do one of his sermons on family. Which was also the reason the adaptation of Dick's "The Minority Report" sucked.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"What IS the range on teleportation, anyway? Kinda sketchy..."
posted @ Wed, Oct 11, 2006 7:04:02 am EDT from 69.175.67.68

Greg W> I was just wondering if you had heard anything about Keith David's CD coming out. I talked to him at the Gathering and he said it would probably be out some time in August, but I haven't seen anything yet. Do you have any inf? Thanks.
oneuke
posted @ Wed, Oct 11, 2006 12:55:28 am EDT from 69.3.63.57

Yeah, those are the responses I was thinking of too.

Anyway, we have a definitive statement now and thats fine. Like I said, now we know.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 11:13:37 pm EDT from 70.246.157.93

I was confused by these messages in the archive:

"if all the female gargoyles on Avalon only are able or ready to reproduce when the Earth 20-year cycle comes around wouldn't that mean that they would be laying their eggs within a very short time on Avalon? i mean, on Avalon that cycle would come around every 10 months! would the females on Avalon be ready to concieve after just laying an egg?

and lets say that its too soon to be laying another egg and they skip a cycle, that means that they will only lay two eggs in their lifetimes, and if that happened it would be bad for the Avalon clan."

Greg wrote:

"1st paragraph... No.

2nd paragraph... I don't follow your reasoning here. They have the potential at least to have many MORE children on Avalon."

and

"2.Can gargoyles on Avalon lay more eggs than the ones in the mortal world?"

Greg wrote:

"2. Potentially."

Which in retrospect isn't as clear as I had thought. I am grateful to Greg for clearing this up.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 10:45:39 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Greg W> I've probably read every question/answer on the subject. I was always under the impression from your statements on the matter that gargoyles on Avalon would probably not be capable of producing an egg with every cycle, but that they could produce more than three eggs in their lifetime because they would have an oppurtunity to mate during more cycles. I guess I misunderstood that, but honestly it never seemed like you were explaining it the way you have today. Oh well. Spilled milk. Now we know.

So, heres a question. On March 21st, 2198, when all the Clan leaders gather on Queen Florence Island with their eggs for the Hatching, would the Avalon Clan be bringing any eggs at all? At first I thought not since the Avalon Clan's first batch of eggs wouldn't hatch for another 50 years on Avalon, unless of course as I mentioned earlier those eggs spent some time in the real world, but I remembered something. The beasts on Avalon should already have been breeding when Goliath arrived. I'll have to do the math to figure out whether there will be any beast eggs in the rookery to hatch in 2198.

Jurassic Park> In a scale from best to worst in my opinion: #3, #1, #2. The second one was terrible.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 10:14:21 pm EDT from 70.245.243.56

Harvester : 52 actually.
Spen
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow" - Mark Twain
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 10:10:23 pm EDT from 216.248.119.208

If an hour passes on Avalon for every day that passes in the outside world, then time in the real world is moving 24 times as fast as time on Avalon. Therefore, 20 years on Avalon equals 480 years in the outside world. Once the Avalon gargoyles sync up with their first egg-laying, there's nothing more that needs to happen. Their biological 20-year cycle will have them laying eggs at the same time as every 24th laying of eggs in the outside world. So if they lay their first clutch of eggs in 2008, they'll lay their second in 2488 and their third in 2968.

Hardly a recipe for speedy population growth, that.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 9:22:17 pm EDT from 66.72.203.217

Matt - Yes. Three eggs each. No matter where you are.

Asmadi - No, I haven't changed this from what I used to say. I think I've been fairly consistent on this point, though people may have misinterpreted me at times, and/or I may been confused by a question here and there and wrote something that seemed to indicate an inconsistency. But I think the vast majority of the archives will support the notion that I've been consistent on this point. It's ALWAYS been one egg every twenty years on the "eights". Whether that's twenty years on Avalon or in the real world. And a garg female has three fertile periods. I can't think of anything significant that I've ever written or discussed that would contradict me on these points.
Greg Weisman
Pod-casting since 2006...
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 8:31:13 pm EDT from 72.25.64.98

Little bit of clarity: "Me, I'm good at math but I still find it confusing and don't like it very much." I meant that I don't like math.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Wow. They made a "Save the Last Dance 2." If there's any surer sign that our species is f**ked, I have no idea what that might be.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 8:16:32 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

Me, I'm good at math but I still find it confusing and don't like it very much.

Patrick: I rarely make sense. Mostly cynicism and carbon dioxide. I would also say that I produce small, efficient incendiary devices, but the Homeland Security people are programmed not to have senses of humor.

Shara: I think each is biologically the age they were when they swapped. Before they entered their pact, Demona was I believe biologically 55 and Macbeth was 35. Unless I'm reading it wrong, Macbeth gave her his age in exchange for Demona's.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
Wow. They made a "Save the Last Dance 2." If there's any surer sign that our species is f**ked, I have no idea what that might be.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 8:15:39 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

Yeah, I'm kind of confused now. Greg just changed it from what he used to say.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 7:58:18 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

So, if I get this right:

Ophelia can lay her 1st egg in 2008.
24 (Avalon time differential) * 20 years = 480 years
So Ophelia can lay her 2nd egg in 2488 and her 3rd egg in 2968.

On 2nd thought, the females of the Avalon clan might want to spend some time outside Avalon if they want to make a dent in the gargoyle population dynamic.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 7:24:40 pm EDT from 216.96.23.124

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury> "Looking at the 46 (according to IMDb) movies and TV shows he's directed, I've only seen a handful of them: Jaws, Close Encounters, the 3 Indiana Jones movies, E.T., Amazing Stories (TV), Hook, and the first 2 Jurassic Parks."

I agree with you for the most part. Jaws is okay to watch if there's nothing else on, I've never seen Close Encounters (Hopefully, I'm not omitting my status as a film fan by admitting that), E.T. was fun to watch, Amazing Stories TV was one of my fave shows as a kid. I LOVED Hook and the 1st 2 Jurassic Parks.

Though Jurassic Park 3 left a foul taste in my mouth...
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 7:01:02 pm EDT from 209.239.132.227

What I think Shara means is that even though Demona is immortal, why is it that she continues to look.....35? never older or younger. My guess is that when she gained Mcbeth's youth and became 35, that was the time she became immortal. So I guess that's the age she stays at forever.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 6:57:30 pm EDT from 69.231.245.205

She stays young cos she's immortal
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 6:09:52 pm EDT from 195.93.21.4

Hmmm ok I know this has been asked before.

How does demona stay young if she doesnt turn to stone anymore?
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 5:55:04 pm EDT from 4.245.116.240

So by 2008 Angela and Avalon clan be in there breeding season
by 2028 Angela will be in breeding season but the Avalon clan won't be as it be only been a year or 2 on Avalon and when Angela's in her 3rd breeding season the Avalon clan still waiting for the eggs to hatch from there 1st breeding season.
So by the time Avalon 3rd breeding seson comes along Goliath, Brooklyn ect will all be dead. Am I right hope I am if not it was a good try anyway
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 5:44:32 pm EDT from 195.93.21.4

Jesus, I'm never going to understand any of this, I just watch. :(
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 5:41:39 pm EDT from 69.231.245.205

**blinks** Wow, all this since yesterday?
To bad I have nothing else to say, feels kind of... shameful to post this after the discussion I just read. All I can say is WOW and thanks for the 2008 date. ;P

Tootles.
Renee
Sanity is the delusion created by the rational mind to hide from the irrationality of the world.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 5:36:45 pm EDT from 24.181.243.222

Vaevictis> I think you are confusing chronological age and biological age. Ophelia is a lot older than 19 in 2008. Somewhere closer to 40.

Greg W> Okay, thanks for clearing that up. So really, gargoyles on Avalon are going to have to wait 20 years anyway. Which means it is still gonna be 3 eggs each for them.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 4:36:38 pm EDT from 70.245.243.56

So the Avalon Gargoyles can only have 3 eggs each after all?
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 4:33:05 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Matt, you're misinterpreting me. Gargs need two factors in synch to lay eggs: (1) their internal biology and (2) the rhythm of the planet. They can't lay eggs BEFORE they hit puberty. And they can't lay eggs until after they hit puberty and the rhythm of the planet is in synch. So Ophelia and Angela could theoretically each lay their first egg at the same time. But assuming she stays on Avalon, Ophelia's not going to be ready to lay again for twenty years of HER time on Avalon. That's her BODY talking. She's not built to lay any faster. Then after twenty years of her time, she has to wait for the planet to be in synch as well.
Greg Weisman
Pod-casting since 2006...
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 4:28:41 pm EDT from 72.25.64.98

But Ophelia can't lay in 2008, if she was hatched in 1078! She would only be biologically 19 years old! Doesn't she have to be biologically 25 to lay eggs? Angela will be biologically 25 in 2008, but Ophelia will not.

Or did Greg change their hatching date to some other year? That is the year I see in the archives. Gargoyles lay first eggs at age 50. 50 years on Avalon is 1200 years on Earth, so Ophelia won't be old enough to lay until 2278, and the next cycle would be in 2288.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 3:51:33 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Patrick> A quote from Greg essentially saying what I've been saying all day:

"Thus by 1995, Angela, Gabriel, Ophelia, et al. would all be biologically twenty years old. That's way past Gargoyle puberty in my book. So what remains is for their internal clocks to be in sync, so to speak, with the natural rhythms of the Earth that would put the females "in heat" (for lack of a better term). That would next occur sometime in late 2007 or early 2008.

That easily puts, say, Ophelia in synch with Angela and Obsidiana out in the real world. The difference comes twenty years later in 2028, when the latter two might again lay eggs . But to Ophelia she would have only just laid her first egg a mere 20 months ago. I don't know whether that's enough recovery time for her, enough time for her own internal cycle -- but in any case her first egg certainly wouldn't have hatched yet."
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 3:51:17 pm EDT from 70.245.243.56

It wouldn't surprise me if many of the eggs taken to Queen Florence Island on March 21st, 2198 were from Avalon and it wouldn't surprise me if many of them were to remain on the Island to form the basis of a new Clan. Descendents of the Avalon Clan are probably also prevalent in the Camelot and New Wyvern Clans.

Battle Beast> Agree totally. I loved the book Jurassic Park and love the visual effects and score from the movies, but the scripts and movies themselves were pretty poor. Speilberg is WAY overrated.

Patrick> You are wrong, since time is traveling much slower on Avalon the gargoyles themselves age much slower. However, Avalon is connected to the Earth and is still influenced by the Earth's cycles. The Earth cycles are not slowed down on Avalon. Therefore, the cycles are happening every ten months or so on Avalon while they are happening every 20 years in the real world. The cycles are happening faster on Avalon, but time itself doesn't seem to be moving any faster to those on the island.
Ophelia will experience her first breeding cycle in 2008. The next cycle will come around in 2028, but Ophelia will only have aged about ten months. Ophelia will experience many of the Earth cycles in her lifetime, but it will probably be impossible for her to lay an egg for each one.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 3:47:18 pm EDT from 70.245.243.56

You folks aren't making any sense. If what you're saying were true, the gargoyles on Avalon would be aging at an accelerated rate and would have died centuries ago, as measured by the calendar on Earth. Greg has never said anything to indicate that the gargoyles on Avalon have a breeding cycle every year.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 3:35:28 pm EDT from 66.72.203.217

Jurrassic Park, The Movie, stank. Spielberg butchered the novell. Took the best parts and ripped the rest to shreds.

The Book kicks butt. If I could, I would re do the film, with the John Willimas score added in.

The Dinosaurs were terrific, though. Visuals: A+ SCript: D-
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 3:23:15 pm EDT from 198.53.28.99

Because Greg said so. *shrug*

I started counting how fast the population would grow if they lay every other cycle. It will take thousands of Earth years, but eventually the children will outnumber the adults 12 to 1. If the Avalon Gargoyles really do lay eggs that often, they might be better off donating some of them to clans on Earth, or things will quickly become *very* crazy on Avalon.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 3:22:44 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Yeah, Greg has told us that the Earth's cycle is unaffected by the different time flow on Avalon. Human cycles are generally internal, so Katherine was still once a month. Gargoyles, Greg has said, are much more connected to the natural rhythms of the Earth, and so whether they are on Avalon or not they are totally in tune with it.
It must be an interesting sensation for the mature gargoyles on Avalon to be entering heat every year or so when normally it is twenty years! Certainly the gargoyles can't give birth every cycle, that can't be good for them. I mean, they mate and then carry the egg for 6 months before laying it, leaving only 4 months or so before they would have to mate again to produce an egg in the next cycle. I'm beginning to think that even mating every third cycle might be too much.

Another thought is that in the real world gargoyles mate on the Spring Equinox and lay their eggs on the following Autumn Equinox. The eggs hatch nine and a half years later on the Spring Equinox. On Avalon, however, it is always summer, so it doesn't matter, I guess...
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 3:21:12 pm EDT from 70.245.243.56

:: joins Kythera in confusion ::

Why would gargoyles living on Avalon have an accelerated reproductive cycle?
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 3:12:28 pm EDT from 66.72.203.217

Gah, sorry for so many posts. My calculations are wrong as well. Let me fix that:

Laying every 20 years on Earth = 3 eggs
Laying every 40 years (20 months) on Avalon = 25 eggs
Laying every 60 years (2.5 years) on Avalon = 17 eggs
Laying every 80 years (3.3 years) on Avalon = 13 eggs
assuming they always start laying at age 50 and stop at age 90. If they start laying at age 51 they will have 1 less egg by age 90.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 2:07:51 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

So basically, on Earth, the Gargoyles' internal biological cycle has no effect at all on fertility.

But Matt's calculations were wrong. If the Avalon females lay eggs every other cycle, (that is every 20 months on Avalon), then between ages 50 and 90 they would lay 24 eggs each!

If the Avalon females lay every third cycle, they will lay 16 eggs each. If they lay every fourth cycle, they will lay 12 eggs each.

If they could lay eggs every single cycle (once every 10 months) they would get out 48 eggs in a single lifetime!
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 1:58:21 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

...

...............

Oooookay.
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 1:49:53 pm EDT from 65.169.99.145

The Gargoyle breeding cycle is apparently tied to some physical cycle of the earth. So yes, every 20 Earth years the Gargoyle females will lay eggs. On Avalon that slightly more often than every year. Greg has said that the Gargoyle's own internal biology would probably not allow breeding that often, so we are guessing here that they would end up laying every 40 years instead, which is roughly every 2 years Avalon time.
On Avalon, the Gargoyles' internal biological cycle places an upper limit on fertility. But on Earth, they are bound by a geological cycle of some kind.
Don't ask me what would happen to Gargoyles on other planets.

And I was wrong about the males living apart from the females in Matt's scenario. It wouldn't work, the guys would age too fast and die. The females would have to become polygamous, or else the males would have to live on Avalon as well, and leave the eggs to be watched by humans.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 1:47:02 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

... Wait, wait, wait...

That doesn't make sense. Did I miss where it said somewhere that gargoyles on Avalon are bound to the same exact breeding cycle as gargoyles in "the real world," regardless of the relative time difference? It seems to me that, given the relative times of each zone, a gargoyle laying an egg on Avalon will still have to wait 20 years *relative to themselves* between breeding cycles. There just doesn't seem to be any logical reason (disregarding the fact that we're arguing the breeding habits of fictional creatures) that they'd get fertile any sooner. It seems more likely that the breeding cycles for the Avalon gargs would just be totally out of synch with the outside world. No matter where you are, it just seems to me that their body wouldn't be ready to reproduce again for another 20 years, whether those 20 years are spent on Avalon or in Manhattan. By that same logic, it would seem that Princess Katherine would have spent EVERY day she was on Avalon in the proverbial red tent... **Blinkblink**
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 1:36:47 pm EDT from 65.169.99.145

Ah but Matt, they would have to spend all the time (between each two breeding cycles) on Avalon in order to remain young enough to have all 12 eggs. And then who would raise the young in the real world? Couples would have to remain separated, with males returning to Avalon only for sex. Or else some really trusted human allies would have to watch the eggs until they hatch, and then ferry the hatchlings to Avalon.

I think one thing the Gargoyles around the world need to do is start trading eggs between clans. Each of those clans has been isolated from all others for how many centuries? With so few clans left and so little interaction between them, gene flow is almost utterly cut off. Each of those clans forms a tiny, isolated and somewhat inbred population. Just like when animals are isolated into tiny populations by habitat fragmentation. Gargoyles aren't as suscptible to disease but vitality and fertility could also be affected by long-term inbreeding. If all the clans traded eggs, this could be mitigated.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 11:57:21 am EDT from 69.81.211.193

Thanks Kythera. Do you (or anyone else) know if the first issue has been reprinted yet? Because if not that's probably why my comic book store is having problems ordering it.
Kasei
~Kasei
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 11:29:55 am EDT from 68.191.210.59

Gargoyles in the natural world lay eggs when they are 50, 70 and 90 years old. The last time a cycle came around (1988) the gargoyles on Avalon were probably a tad too young to be able to produce an egg. By 2008, the next heat phase, Ophelia and her sisters on Avalon will almost certaintly be able to produce an egg. Even though Angela would be a slightly different age than Ophelia due to spending more than a decade in the real world (Angela will have aged 13 years, Ophelia will only have aged about 6 months), 2008 will be the first time either of them will be able to produce an egg.
The real question is how many eggs will Ophelia be able to lay in her lifetime. The next cycle will come around in 2028. Thats 20 years in the real world, but less than a year on Avalon. Ophelia's first egg would be years from hatching. Greg has his doubts whether she'd be ready to get pregnant again after such a short time, and I tend to agree with him. So lets say Ohpelia only produces an egg every other breeding cycle. She would STILL lay her second egg before her first one had hatched yet. Even skipping a cycle, the female gargoyles on Avalon may be able to produce a dozen eggs or so. This sounds like a great place to boost the gargoyle population except that it takes 24 times as long for eggs to hatch. So Ophelia and Gabriel's first egg won't hatch until 2248.

If gargoyles wanted to boost their population as quickly and as efficiently as possible, all the adult gargoyles would go to Avalon and lay their eggs as fast as they could (every other cycle maybe). That means they'd be producing about an egg every other year. Than somebody would immediatly take the eggs to the real world to incubate for ten years. Those eggs would hatch and grow into breeding age adults and then those adults would go back to Avalon and begin producing eggs as fast as possible. Doing this gets the best of both worlds so to speak. You'd have the very fast breeding rates of Avalon and the quick incubation period for the eggs in the real world. I'm not even going to do the math to figure it all out, but clearly it would produce a population boom in the gargoyle population to be having a new batch of eggs brought to the real world every couple years.
Of course some of those eggs at least would be having odd incubation lengths depending on when in the cycle they were brought to the realy world.

Ugh, my head hurts... and I think I'm rambling... Okay, done for now.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 11:21:28 am EDT from 70.245.242.225

Warcrafter: ...

Vavictus: <Somewhere Greg made the comment that the Avalon clan has no eggs yet, and that perhaps they came of age earlier and Katherine has been "preaching abstinance" though why she would is beyond me.> Maybe for the same reason that the clothes the Avalon females wear are more modest than the clothes worn by their parents. Katherine, being royalty, just had a "proper" conservative upbringing.

Matt: <Ophelia and Angela should both produce their first egg in 2008.> So, has Greg said if mid-to-upper 20s is just the preset age when a gargoyle would first enter heat, or does the way time passes on Avalon have some sort of effect on that?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"When Jesus was president, he ate babies all the time."
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 6:50:26 am EDT from 69.175.67.68

lol, omg, im sorry but i just have to share this. It is nothing Gargoyles related (like most of my posts, I mainly post things to make us smile) but i just busted out laughing. Even if you don't understand what he's talking about its so funny. Tell me this guy doesn't have a life. (P.S. Lots of cursing, you've been warned)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxh1xlp3J_Q

What is sad is that I actually understand what he is talking about.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 1:50:24 am EDT from 69.231.245.205

Speaking of odd cuisine: I forget what I was watching (I'm sure it was a History Channel show about refrigeration), but one of the things mentioned was that someone who had discovered a wooly mammoth frozen in a glacier thawed it out, cooked it, and served it at a dinner party.

Harvestor re: Spielberg> Looking at the 46 (according to IMDb) movies and TV shows he's directed, I've only seen a handful of them: Jaws, Close Encounters, the 3 Indiana Jones movies, E.T., Amazing Stories (TV), Hook, and the first 2 Jurassic Parks.
I extremely dislike Jaws; Close Encounters is ehh; I liked the 3rd Indiana Jones movie, but can sit through the first two if there's nothing else to do; don't like E.T.; really like Amazing Stories (but I also really like The Twilight Zone, and that's basically all Amazing Stories is); can't really remember much about Hook other than I didn't like it (then again, I hate the Peter Pan story); if I hadn't read the Jurassic Park novel before I saw the movie (my favorite John Williams soundtrack), I might have liked the first one; and really didn't like JP II.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music selection: Symphonic Suite "Dragon Quest III: Into the Legend..." (Tokyo Metro Symph Orch)
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 1:24:38 am EDT from 63.20.21.165

Sorry for the double post. Should've checked before I guessed. Greg responded with this when I asked him about the Avalon beasts and their eggs:

"...by your calculations, when Goliath and Elisa first arrived on Avalon , there should indeed be a pup that hatched in 1578 and an egg that was laid in 1828. That egg would be waiting to hatch in 2078."

So really when Goliath, Elisa and Bronx arrive there is already FOUR beasts on the island and one beast egg. In fact, that first beast pup would be about the same age as Bronx leading me to wonder why Boudicca did not choose this beast as a mate. Perhaps it was female or perhaps Boudicca smelled that this pup was too closely related to her to be a suitable mate.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 12:28:03 am EDT from 70.245.242.225

I'm pretty sure Greg has recalculated the Avalon Clan's age and timescales and has realized that Ophelia and Angela and their sisters had not entered "heat" as of 1995. Ophelia and Angela should both produce their first egg in 2008.
It is worth noting however that the other two beasts (besides Boudicca) should have had an egg on Avalon in 1995 that would hatch in 1998.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Tue, Oct 10, 2006 12:20:19 am EDT from 70.245.242.225

Jalapeno! Considering the contest we often have held at the gathering eating these things, I thought some of you might be interested reading this. I think even Broadway would have a tough time topping this! Hot stuff!
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 11:50:12 pm EDT from 74.105.128.170

"my pelvis is the size of a 12 year old's"

That is possibly the best quote I've ever seen on this board.

Vaevictis: Greg saying that the Avalon Clan has no eggs I'm sure refers to fertilized eggs. Supposing a female does lay an unfertilized egg, it would certainly biodegrade over time, and the clan would have no conceivable reason for counting it. The main reason, though, is that the Avalon Clan are all too young to have mated yet.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 11:25:07 pm EDT from 68.54.25.10

Siren -- that was probably the kiwi, which has an enormous egg-to-body size ratio.

From what I read in the archives about Gargoyle biology, my impression is that unmated females do not lay eggs. Somewhere Greg made the comment that the Avalon clan has no eggs yet, and that perhaps they came of age earlier and Katherine has been "preaching abstinance" though why she would is beyond me.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 11:05:47 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Kasei-- Issue 1 was supposedly reprinted, because it sold out. Issue 2 has been pushed back to November, and the comic will then go quarterly (that means it will come out four times a year).
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 10:36:53 pm EDT from 65.169.99.145

When I had my daughter, a woman there gave birth to a 12lbs, 25" long baby, NATURALLY. Now I had a 10lbs, 22" long baby and had a c-section. The doctor explained that my pelvis is the size of a 12 year old's (wish my body was). My daughter and I would both have died if I tried natural. But a woman with a more devolped pelvis had a baby that big naturally. Women have babies the size of watermelons and gargoyles are larger then human females, so I don't see why they can't have eggs that big. Not only could they abdomen likely support that much, but the birth canal was likely larger then our's too. I am sure some female gargoyles would die in the process of labor, just as humans have in the past and even the present too. Each body is bult and sized differently to take only so much. But most are likely built just find for egg laying.

I remember seeing a bird on Animal Planet once that was very small, but laid a very large egg. Forget the species. But that bird proves how miraculous birth really is.
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 10:34:34 pm EDT from 65.33.46.247

Jurgen, that is an interesting thought. Perhaps unmated female gargoyles still lay unfertilized eggs if they are of breeding age. Of course, that would mean Demona has laid something like 50 eggs. Yikes.

Keep in mind that we have domesticated and selectively bred chickens to produce eggs whether they mate or not. Jungle foul, from which our chickens descend do not lay many unfertilized eggs, evolutionarily speaking it is a big waste of energy to do so. So I tend to doubt that gargoyles would lay fertilized eggs if they didn't mate. I think conception would initiate the egg forming process, just as conception in humans initiates a wide range of physical and hormonal processes. Perhaps an unmated female gargoyle would have something akin to a period when the mating cycle came around.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 10:19:09 pm EDT from 70.245.242.225

I was wondering if anyone in here might know anything about the status of the comic book? As in how are sales going and are they still being produced? The reason I ask is because I've been trying to get my local comic book shop to order a few copies for me, but they continuously tell me that they cannot order them for some reason. As in they are not in print any longer or are between printings. I hate to continue to bother them unless I have some facts...so does anyone know anything about this or know what I could do or say to get them to order some copies for me?
Kasei
~Kasei
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 9:56:56 pm EDT from 68.191.210.59

Hmmm, what an excellent excuse to charge even more for one.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Shooting a video is fine if you're the singer. You just sing into the camera. And the guitarist can twang his guitar. But what's a drummer supposed to do? I just have to jerk along with the music feeling like a dick." -Stewart Copeland ("Everyone Stares")
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 8:38:01 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

But when we eat eggs, we aren't eating potential chickens. When hens don't mate, they still produced eggs, but they are unfertilized and can't hatch. It's the same as women having their periods. I don't think gargoyles are like that, though, because gargoyles are only capable of reproducing every twenty years. I suppose an unmated gargoyle would lay an unfertilized egg, but those would be rare. Am I reading the situation right?
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 8:36:22 pm EDT from 68.54.25.10

And a further problem is that each gargoyle egg eaten means one less gargoyle to grow up, mate, and continue the species - which means that gargoyles would be all the more endangered. In fact, those omelettes could wind up being "extinction omelettes".
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 8:04:27 pm EDT from 4.244.18.38

Todd: Well, my main reason for dropping the idea is that it wouldn't be a very lucrative business, anyway. You could only make them once every 20 years. But that WOULD make them a delicacy, giving an excuse to charge an insane amount of money for it, more than one would for bald eagle or Siberian tiger. Mmmmmm, bald eagle...
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Shooting a video is fine if you're the singer. You just sing into the camera. And the guitarist can twang his guitar. But what's a drummer supposed to do? I just have to jerk along with the music feeling like a dick." -Stewart Copeland ("Everyone Stares")
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 7:50:20 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

HARVESTER - I strongly advise you not to mention gargoyle egg omelettes around Demona. She'd see it as further confirmation of all her deepest-held suspicions about humans.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 7:40:48 pm EDT from 4.244.18.38

The egg is soft when it is inside the female gargoyle's body, probably similiar to a snake's egg. This is critical because it helps explain how the female can lay the egg without cracking it or injuring herself. The morning after the egg is laid, when all the gargoyles turn to "stone", the egg solidifies in a very similiar fashion and stays that way, day and night, for nine and a half years until it hatches.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 7:30:56 pm EDT from 70.245.242.225

Thanks for all the links.

I've picked an image out.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 7:21:11 pm EDT from 209.239.132.69

I don't wonder more about how a female gargoyle lays an egg (I have a guess on how they do it) What I wonder about is the actual size. Look at a rookery egg, then look at a female's body structure. Unless a female gargoyle goes through the same stages of female human, how does the egg survive in the female without breaking apart?
(I feel like such a noob asking these questions.)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 7:11:49 pm EDT from 69.231.245.205

Every time I watch "Avalon, Part One" and I hear Constantine say "I don't think I like gargoyle eggs," I always feel compelled to shout at the TV, "how do you know that if you've never tried one?" Seriously, how many people do you think one gargoyle-egg omelette would feed?

Todd: The second scene you mentioned would have been interesting. I think that in the final cut of the episode that we saw, Charles's line to Robyn about how it's their destiny as Canmores to hunt gargoyles serves almost the same purpose, but the scene that got left out adds another dimension to it.

Blaqthorne: <E.T.> First movie I ever saw in a theater, that I know of. I wouldn't say I hate it, but I surely don't like it.>
Well, I was discussing this with a friend of mine Saturday night, and after mulling over that conversation, and discussing it with Greg B the next day, I've decided that I agree with what my friend said: Spielberg is overrated. He's had a couple gems here and there, but overall, he has a one-track mind, and just about everything he's done in the past ten years degenerates into a sermon on family. Like a Hallmark Channel movie, but with better special effects and a John Williams soundtrack.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Shooting a video is fine if you're the singer. You just sing into the camera. And the guitarist can twang his guitar. But what's a drummer supposed to do? I just have to jerk along with the music feeling like a dick." -Stewart Copeland ("Everyone Stares")
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 6:40:09 pm EDT from 69.175.67.68

After looking at my newborn nephew and niece I wonder the same thing about human births...
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 6:33:44 pm EDT from 70.245.242.225

Man, how are the females able to lay those? Even with the shells being soft at first, I can't imagine how they can do it.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 5:36:39 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

Gargoyle eggs look to be about the size of a watermelon.

http://www.gargoyles-fans.de/downloads/screenshots/images/34/2_34_030.jpg
http://www.gargoyles-fans.de/downloads/screenshots/images/34/2_34_054.jpg
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 5:23:59 pm EDT from 66.72.203.217

And there's also DTaina's "Gargoyles Imagery Resource" for group shots and pans:

http://members.aol.com/DTaina/Imagery/index.html
Leo
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 4:01:52 pm EDT from 68.107.154.71

Yeah, those scenes Todd mentioned sound like they would have been good.

Here's another site with screencaps:
http://avalon.gargoyles-fans.org/ftp/pictures/tv/

here's other pictures:
http://avalon.gargoyles-fans.org/ftp/pictures/

movies:
http://avalon.gargoyles-fans.org/ftp/movies/
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 3:26:17 pm EDT from 69.81.211.193

I'm not much of a gargoyles expert but i would say the size of a rookery egg would be about....a foot and 3 quarters in height and 6 inches in width, that's my guess.

Also, off topic, yesterday was my callback for my role in the feature film. I should find out the results next weekend. Wish me luck that I get another callback or possibly the part.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 3:21:45 pm EDT from 69.231.245.205

How big would a rookery egg be if I held it in my hands?
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 3:09:06 pm EDT from 4.245.121.42

I would've loved to see a rookery of eggs in London, Ishimura or Guatamala. It would've been cool to see that the gargoyle species had hope, had a future.
I know that is not really an actual scene, but the only scenes I can remember that didn't get put into an existing episode are the three that have been mentioned (two from Awakenings, one from Hunter's Moon)
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 12:31:57 pm EDT from 70.245.242.225

KingCobra_582>We have some character images located here. We use this for our artists who draw the webcomic to get ref images.

http://www.ka-blamo.com/gargs/ref/index.html
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 12:27:00 pm EDT from 4.245.121.42

Todd: Those scenes are definites, especially the Hunter's Moon one. Another from Awakening would be the one where Lex is staring at the Viking catapault. It seems to jarring to me when he sees Xanatos's helicopter and says "it was a- a machine of some sort." Since we have at that point seen no indication that Lex has any interest in technology, it's hard to buy that he immediately pegs a thoroughly modern device as a machine.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 12:20:20 pm EDT from 153.9.92.48

Thanks Leo. I thought it was Lynati's site, but I didn't want to guess.

Thanks Lynati. Thats a cool and very helpful site.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 10:11:32 am EDT from 70.245.242.225

Matt:> That sounds like Lynati's Sceencap Heaven
http://lynativerse.artchicks.org/GargoyleScreencapHeaven.htm

And here's the Lexington section for KC
http://lynativerse.artchicks.org/Screencaps/Gw_Lex.htm

There are also scans of model sheets here:
http://animationarchive.net/TV/Series/Gargoyles/Model%20Sheets/index.php?page=&num=7

and here:
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/archives/images/bw/index.php (right in the Station 8 Multimedia Archives)
Leo
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 8:51:26 am EDT from 68.107.154.71

King Cobra> Someone once pointed me to a really great website that had a bunch of screenshots from every gargoyle in the series. I esspecially liked it for getting closer looks at some of the gargoyles we didn't see much, like the background gargoyles of Clan Ishimura. Anyway, does anyone know what site that is? I've lost the link.

Todd> Is there a complete list of other scenes that didn't get put into episodes?
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"Toilet out of order. Please use floor below." - Sign in public restroom stall.
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 8:22:39 am EDT from 70.245.242.225

Like I've mentioned before, I'm considering getting a tattoo for my next Birthday (Saturday) and I'm leaning towards a Lexington one, but I don't know exactly HOW I want it to look, i.e. a pose.

Anybody want to point me to a Gargs character images page where I can pick one? Thanks.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582@hotmail.com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 7:40:21 am EDT from 209.239.132.41

We know from Greg Weisman that there were a number of scenes that were dropped from "Gargoyles" for various reasons (such as lack of time or not being animated well enough). Which of these scenes would you most like to have seen in the series, if they could have been kept in?

For me, it would be these two:

1. The brief moment planned in "Awakening Part One", where, after Princess Katharine objected to having "beasts in the dining hall", one of the dogs wandering about was to have been seen making off with somebody's food from his plate.

2. The scene for "Hunter's Moon Part Three" where Elisa talks to Jason in the ruins of the clock tower (especially the bit where she asks him what got the Canmores hunting gargoyles to begin with and Jason has to confess that he doesn't know).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Oct 9, 2006 7:30:53 am EDT from 4.244.215.171

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