Samuel> The Mayan Clan is my favorite clan. I think they are pretty cool. I know that a member of the Mayan Clan (Zafiro descended from Zafiro and Obsidiana) will be one of the lead characters in the Gargoyles:2198 spinoff. Also, it is possible that Jade and Turquesa, and not Zafiro, will come to New York to retrieve the Sun Amulet on their way back to ChacIxChel, Guatemala after leaving Avalon.
Personally, I think having Jade and Turquesa retrieve it makes more sense cuz I have no idea how Zafiro would know to go there or have the means to do so, while Jade and Turquesa can be guided there by Avalon. I hope this eventually takes place in the comic book, though I doubt it would happen soon. I'd love to hear what the Mayan gargoyles would have to say about a metropolis like Manhattan.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Cold does not bother us..." -Goliath "Reawakening"
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 11:14:30 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

Being new to the comment room, I must say that I really like the way the room is established. But I think maybe an FAQ or some such could be useful, but isn't really necessary. (I also don't really know what kinds of questions would have. >.<)

I actually don't have any complaints at all.

But I do have a general request about the Mayan clan. Besides the trip that Zafiro will take to retrieve the Sun Amulet, are they going to be involved in the series anymore? I was particularly fond of that clan. :)
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 10:57:51 pm EST from 64.12.116.8

SC > Try to remember that if you get lost, you can try to find a security guard or cart-pusher or desk person who might be able to help you.

I was totally an idiot when I first tried using a message board, but I'm used to them now. My big problem is that I want to edit my posts multiple times. I can't seem to get my post the way I want it on the first try, even when I look over it before posting. It seems that only once I see it on the page, in the correct font color and everything, that I notice that I phrased something wrong and want to change it. Part of the problem is I'm just a poor communicator, but I think I've also started to take post-editing for granted.

Also, it is hard to proof a long post when the typing field is so short, and I have to scroll it. It isn't the same as a preview.

As a result, often I put my foot in my mouth, or leave out half of what I wanted to say, or phrase something really badly or in a way that makes no sense.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 5:25:51 pm EST from 209.162.56.94

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury, Patrick> Thanks for the advice. I'll check the G'07 website, and email someone about it. Christine Morgan's on my LJ friends list, maybe I'll ask her about it. :)

TSC> At least you're more accustomed to flying then I am. As anyone who's thoroughly read my G'06 Con Journal goes, that was my 1st time on a plane and my behavior was not pretty. At all. Coffee probably would not have calmed me down. Though I don't make it a habit to drink coffee, so who really knows, but that's not the point...

Off-topic> I keep thinking that I put a episode rant (can't remember the specifics of it) on AG, but it would've been a while ago and I'm not entirely sure (REALLY been busy at my job these days... my brain's even been overworked...) whether I did or not. I can't find anything on the 'unanswered questions' and I'm not sure where to find fan-written episode rants in the archives. Can someone help me refresh my memory, please? Thanks. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 3:36:46 pm EST from 209.239.132.74

So they were only on Avalon for four hours? Seemed like a longer time to me. Ah, well.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Explain to me again how we were going to conquer the earth with a white Michael Jackson?"
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 3:27:12 pm EST from 71.62.210.112

HofEyes> Actually, Elisa did not miss Christmas (assuming her and her family celebrate that particular holiday). Goliath, Elisa and Bronx went to Avalon on December 28th, 1995. For more info on when Goliath and Co arrived at various destinations see: http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Avalon_World_Tour
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Cold does not bother us..." -Goliath "Reawakening"
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 3:24:54 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

Matt: So Elisa missed Christmas? Bummer. Ah, well, at least she was spared the awkwardness of being in the same room with a bunch of relatives that she probably doesn't talk to for the other 364 days of the year, anyway.
( ;

Jurgan: And if Demona's transformation were triggered as they arrived, the pain of it probably would have jolted Macbeth awake. I don't think he witnessed any transformations until his wedding night. Unless he was too in shock to notice anything happening, and Demona used the opportunity to steal away. I imagine that after 1,000 years of life, she's learned to endure pain and shake it off quickly.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Explain to me again how we were going to conquer the earth with a white Michael Jackson?"
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 1:57:41 pm EST from 71.62.210.112

Matt - Yep! Canada. (Very patriotic Canadian... who thinks the Molson Canadian beer commercial anthem/song should be the national anthem, as opposed the one we currently have. XD!!) ^_^

Though I'll be getting on the flight in Buffalo, since (after some research) it was discovered it'll be a lot cheaper for me to do that. I'd love to have someone from my area that I know fly with me, since it would put my paranoid/nervous psyche to rest (I'm terrified I'm going to get lost in the airport somehow, since I can't find my way out of a paper bag at the best of time. Or miss the flight by accident. Or get lost in a stop-off. XD), but I don't know anyone around here who would go (and who has the money to go, since I can't cover them. @_@). Wah!

Honestly... I'm not so much scared of the flight itself (I've been in a small plane before, so at least I've flown), I'm more scared of traveling to another country *alone*. I also don't know how the airport system works, where I need to go, etc... it's all completely new to me, something I've never done, something I'm not used to. Add that with certain, er, mental issues I've got will probably make for a miserable flight there, though I'm sure the flight back won't be as bad, since I'd have done it once. ('Course, knowing me I'll subdue a security guard and persuade them to escort me to wherever I need to go. I make it a point to beg shamelessly for help when I'm clueless about certain things. XD)

Vaevictis Asmadi and Ed - I agree with both things said on Ask Greg, and Todd's performance. Yeah, Todd was (when he was chosen) and is (still today) a good choice as mod for that. I don't have any problem with his job performance. Doing a great job, IMO. :)

Siren - *nods* I adapted to both threaded forums and boards like this relatively easily. But, then, I rarely made any appearances anywhere when I was new to the 'net; I would study a particular thing first for a while to see how it worked, and then (when I was relatively sure I knew how it worked) I would say something. My methods are usually, "Look, find, move in slowly." 'Course, back when I was new to the Internet... HOLY CRAP was I ever stupid. *Everything* was weird to me, and I just *did not* get it. At all. ^^;

Hell, it took me ages to figure out what "email" was. XD And from my experience, new people kind of have to go through a 'trial and error' period; making mistakes, looking like idiots, etc. They're usually *not* idiots; they just *don't know*. It took me a while to figure it all out, but once I got it, it was simple.

With the CR, though... it is hard to respond to multiple people in one post. One thing I like about most threaded forums is the option to select and reply to an individual user, and their post showing up about the box where you're replying. Instead of having two windows open to read/quote multiple people (if there ever was to be a change to the CR) I'd like to see a checkbox or option to select certain posts to show up above the box where you're replying. I don't know how difficult that would be (and I think it can be done en masse; as in, select "reply all" and it shows EVERYONE'S posts) but it would make it a little easier, at least in the replying sense.

But, I dunno. It's up the webmasters. Just a thought that floated through my cranium. ^^;

Harvester - Talking about it is fine, I think, for a period of time. But, like most things, at some point we should move on to other subjects. I mean, when things happen people talk about them; that can't really be helped. Human nature, and all that. But a time comes when we really should stop talking about it; like when it becomes tedious or when all opinions have been said and we're basically saying the same thing over and over again.

The world is a strange place, and the people even stranger. I would agree that the elders here have seen worse, dumber and weirder. This is just one more thing to reminisce about in the future when another issue decides to show up. :)

Though you know, I don't think Arlo is an idiot. I think he's just an arrogant, mean-spirited, self-absorbed jerk who has an ego twice the size of Australia. He also doesn't seem to know how to properly argue a case without resorting to childishness. We should applaud him for one thing at the very least - he can spell, and generally his posts were decently written (grammatically speaking) and we could understand what he was saying. Even if we didn't agree with what he had to say. :P

(Starting to notice I babble a lot... I hope this isn't a problem for anyone. o.O )
The Sadistic Cow
It's me and you against the world. So when do we attack?
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 1:44:52 pm EST from 24.150.120.87

Jurgan> That is something I've been wondering about lately as well. I'm sure Greg W would reply that Avalon provided in some fashion...

HofEyes> We do have those dates, and when I searched I discovered I was the one who got them out of Greg:

Question received on Tue, February 06, 2001 12:44:54 AM
matt writes...
how long had Demona and Thailog been a couple when Goliath arrived in Paris ? how long had Demona and Macbeth been in Paris ?

Greg responds...
The following dates are tentative, based on my current reworking of the timeline -- still a rework in progress.

Demona and Macbeth arrived in Paris on 1-1-96.

Demona first encountered Thailog on 1-2-96.

Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx arrived in Paris on 1-21-96
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Cold does not bother us..." -Goliath "Reawakening"
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 1:12:13 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

"The more I think about it, they probably did arrive there at night. It was night when they left Avalon,"

The problem with that is that day and night are different on Avalon. Night on Avalon would last over a week in the real world, and half an hour means the difference between midnight and noon. So we don't know what time it was when they arrived. I imagine, though, that if they'd arrived in the day, the switch from night to day would have triggered Demona's change. Would it have triggered a normal gargoyle's stone sleep, though? Stone sleep, after all, is based not on magic but on biorhythms. I wonder how Goliath, Angela, and Bronx kept regulated during all of that back-and-forth from Avalon?
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 1:09:30 pm EST from 68.58.219.175

Harvester of Eyes>Over a decade online, not only in this room, but chat rooms and message boards all over....I know a troll and a troublemaker when I see one.
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 12:44:16 pm EST from 72.189.220.217

Sorry for the double post. I should more like say "sometimes" not "often".

But I still don't see what the problem was in how anybody treated Arlo. He just can't handle the concept of rules or admitting he was wrong.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 12:33:54 pm EST from 209.162.56.94

It is true that Greg B. often comes across to me as somewhat abrasive, and I think you could tone it down a bit sometimes, dude. But Arlo abundantly demonstrated that he is a complete loser and nobody here owes him anything resembling an apology. "rationally explained why your life is worthless" indeed. Good riddance, I say.

I think it's probably good that Todd errs a little on the side of leniance. I personally would want to delete the "Ask Jeeves" type comments, but since Greg W. has asked that they go through, it appears that letting him handle grey areas is best.

Regarding the format here, I think that the current format is best for a small community like this. With very large communities which host group projects and multiple topics, threads and topic boards work best, but when the community is small enough, or the topics aren't spread too thin, I think keeping it as an open room works best. Like Matt, I also found it easier to get used to. This CR doesn't seem to get enough traffic to need threads.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 12:28:22 pm EST from 209.162.56.94

Matt: The more I think about it, they probably did arrive there at night. It was night when they keft Avalon, and if they arrived back in the mortal world when it was day, the pain of Demona's transformation would probably have woken Macbeth up. So I think that Demona probably woke up first, and seeing that Macbeth was with her, made sure to keep tabs on him. Did Greg ever say how soon after Demona showed up in Paris that she and Thailog had their first glide together?


I feel like an anal retentive idiot for talking about this so much, but basically I don't feel like I should comment on the whole Arlo debacle. However, I did tell someone earlier that Arlo calling Greg Weisman a victim because one person here actually wanted try to keep the conversation Gargoyles-related instead of see a flame-war erupt (and calling that person a waste of life for not wanting to stoop to his level) left me scratching my head. Especially when the person calling Greg a victim appeared to think that it was perfectly normal and acceptable to violate ASK GREG guidelines. Ah, well. I'm sure a few of the elders in the room have seen stranger and dumber things.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"But my dreams are for dreaming, and best left that way. And my zero to your power of ten equals nothing at all." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 12:23:58 pm EST from 71.62.210.112

Sadistic Cow makes a good point (I'm not worshipping, don't worry). It is EASY the way it is. Especially for new and younger members of the internet. I remember the first time I saw a threaded forum, I was like WTF?. Now I have no problem with them, but I did feel lost for quite sometime. And people join forums everyday and are new to them. They get lost too. They can't find the right place to post certain discussions (or even know there is a right place) and post something where it is convienent for them at the time. So this setup works well for newbies and is comfortable for those who are "elders" :)
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 12:15:08 pm EST from 72.189.220.217

I don't think Greg B's first post was remotely sarcastic. Of course Arlo's question was an idea. The Ask Greg rules aren't onerous, but the idea-as-question rule is quite clear. He tried to flout the rule and got caught out. Instead of fessing up, he chose to throw his toys out of the pram.

On the topic of Ask Greg questions getting through, I think Todd's in a difficult position. He rightly errs on the side of letting Greg handle things if there's ambiguity and sometimes he'll make a different judgment call from others. But not necessarily a wrong one. It's the sort of job where different people will hold different opinions now and then but the fact that he's been called out by people for being too strict as well as too lenient makes me think that overall he's got the balance right.

On the board format... it seems pretty clear to me. Many blogs are arranged along similar lines.

Blaqthorne: The Star Trek has more fans than Gargoyles riff amused me too. I can't imagine why that might be!
Ed
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 11:39:33 am EST from 213.187.39.235

Phoenician> we do have cover art for issue 2. It came out a few months back. Sorry, but I can't provide a link.

Board> I like the way it currently is, and I like threaded forums, but I really can't say much either way.
Asatira
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 11:33:15 am EST from 68.184.70.121

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury> Those are some hilarious quotes. Geeez, what a nut.

Samuel> No, that isn't the link, thanks though. It was a really cool site. Very colorful and organized. I suppose I should say it seemed very official. I liked it a lot, but havn't seen it in years. Now that I think about it, I think it was created by Aris Katsaris and not Vashkoda, but who knows. Thanks for the congrats too.

HofEyes> Yes, that is true. If she is human she'd get a little chilly. My only defense on that is to say that if it is winter the days are a bit shorter so it is more likely they arrived at night, when Demona was a gargoyle. That is kinda a week defense though, it could've easily been daytime when they washed up on the banks (assuming they too arrived on the Seine).

Demonskyre> On the contrary, when I first arrived as a newbie it was the simpleness of this site that made me stay. All the forums and rooms within rooms and usernames of other sites annoyed me, but this site was simple, attractive and very easy to participate in. Honestly, if it changed I would probably post here much less, if I continued coming around at all. I kinda like the openness and the blending of topics. I think it is interesting. Having an open Room has ofen enhanced conversation, IMHO.

Sadistic Cow> Yeah, I've gotta get on the ball with Gathering stuff too. I'm gonna try to convince my boyfriend to come and I'm still hoping my friend Ryan, wo is in med school, is gonna be available. I want to bring as many people as possible, but it is a little tight for me right now to try to get money squared away. Where are you coming from anyway? Canada?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Cold does not bother us..." -Goliath "Reawakening"
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 11:32:59 am EST from 24.207.163.239

Siren - Thanks. Though worshipping isn't necessary. XD Rather makes me feel awkward. *l*

Battle Beast - It has been my personal experience and is simply my opinion that viruses are worse. Viruses have forced me to lose important files which are detrimental to my sanity. People like Arlo are merely an irritation which will eventually go away, or the issue(s) with them will resolve of their own accord.

Demonskrye - You've got a few good points there. It might be better to make it a threaded board in certain ways, but if the CR has been working well enough for as long as it has, in a sense there's no reason to fix it. And I don't know if Gorebash has the time to develop a new design for the CR.

From personal experience... I never really had a problem with the CR the way it is. I found it to be relatively easy to figure out, and I adapted quickly. I'm not sure if there already is something like this, but maybe instead of changing the room someone could write an introduction/guideline/how-to page for the room for new people. Like, "This is the room, these are the rules, and this is how it works" sort of thing. Not everyone will read it first, but if people are confused they can be directed to that page.

Just a thought. ^^;

RE The Gathering - Woo! The day is getting closer, time is running out for me to get my bloody passport. XD 'Course, I have a plan for that, so I'm not too worried. I'm looking forward to going to Tennessee, as I've heard it is beautiful... though it will be my first time flying jet, and traveling to the States by myself. Suffice to say, I'm feeling very leery and nervous about this already. XD
The Sadistic Cow
It's me and you against the world. So when do we attack?
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 11:17:12 am EST from 24.150.120.87

I like thos form and I like threaded forums. I like it how it is...its old school :P I hate to see it change. I wouldn't mind the addition of a threaded board, but want to see this stay the same.
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 11:09:21 am EST from 72.189.220.217

Comment Room Format> I noticed this come up previously and meant to comment on it. I may be in the minority here, but I'd actually like to see a change to the threaded or bulletin board format. I know a lot of people are really fond of the current free form weekly refresh format, but I think it's actually kind of a hinderance to new posters. I've seen enough people come in and day something along the lines of "I had trouble figuring this out because I've never seen a message board like this" or "I don't really understand how this works". And in some cases, the people confused by the comment room format are people who we'd definitely want to post here (such as peoplewho worked on the Season 2 Part 1 DVD and animation art dealers). And I can imagine it's a little daunting for a new person to come here and be greeted by the middle of a discussion, "Seventh!", or "Wow, the board's dead today". As for the argument that the current format makes for better troll vewing, I think a more structured setup would allow posters who think troll baiting is a game you can only lose to ingore the whole mess while those who consider it a source of amusement can go at it.

Ultimately, it's up to Gore whether we stay the same or make some changes. But I feel that if we want to attract new people to the fandom (which we really need to do), it might help to have a more welsoming place for them to get involved.
Demonskrye
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 10:55:58 am EST from 209.94.139.18

Matt: Not if they showed up at Paris during the day. I imagine that during the day, Demona feels the cold like any other human.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"But my dreams are for dreaming, and best left that way. And my zero to your power of ten equals nothing at all." -Ian Anderson
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 10:05:59 am EST from 71.62.210.112

Blaqthourne : Drag your mouse over the area to the right of the time of post, and you you should see the person's IP.
Spen
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow" - Mark Twain
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 5:02:38 am EST from 216.248.119.208

Matt, I think, someone asked for a link to a garginfo page. I can almost garantee that this isn't the right page, but I think it has some good character and place descriptions in it. The site is http://www.dracandros.com/Jebgarg/tge/listings.htm but, it's dead, and the email to the guy who ran it no is no longer in use. So... I hope that was even a little bit helpful.

Also, I think Matt just said he moved in with his boyfriend. (I'm getting old, I can't remember) If that's the case, congratulations.
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 4:12:11 am EST from 64.12.116.8

BTW, where are the IP addresses of posts shown? They haven't appeared on each post for many years.

Oh, on the board format. I've never really liked threaded boards. Topics that would interest me are missed because they're posted to a section that it really doesn't fit in. Plus, with the relatively few posts that this room gets each week, I find it tedious to keep backing in and out of all the different subboards to read all the messages.

And we'd all miss out on seeing how much of an idiot people like Arlo are if we could edit posts. That boy has some seriously flawed logic. Some gems from his diatribe:
"The fact that the majority of people here may disagree with me, only gives my argument more weight"
"Also, given that virtually every belief that any of you hold dear to your hearts, was founded and taught by people who were deemed crazy and ostracized from their communities for having such beliefs"
"All I've done is to explain rationally why your life has no worth"
"...jeopradize {sic} any hope Gargoyles has left by having all of NYU banned from this site"
"I grew up always being more intelligent/insightful than my peers."
"So I rationally argue my case, calmly and reasonably..."
"I'm leaving you guys in peace to be immature and deliberately ignorant amongst yourselves."
"...so able to disprove any and all of your arguments..."

I for one will miss seeing people so full of themselves and making complete asses of themselves, like Arlo just did, with an edit function.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music Selection: Final Fantasy VI Original sound version
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 3:13:51 am EST from 63.20.41.143

Lynati> I remember the site, and I know its been offline forever, but I have no idea why . . . I do remember reading the comment though.
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
Pheon
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 2:42:10 am EST from 157.242.210.149

I'd like to see the page Matt is referring to as well, I hadn't known such a page existed.
Also, did I miss a response to my "just when did the entire Gargoyles News Site disappear" question here last week, or did no one have a reply for it?
Lynati
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 2:38:45 am EST from 70.242.186.69

Hey . . . sorta new here. Been coming here since 2003 but I've never commented. But I have a question: Since we're so close to Issue's 2's release, do we have any cover art yet??
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
Pheon
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 2:33:53 am EST from 157.242.210.149

KingCobra> I don't know if it's allowed anymore, but I was lucky enough at the Gathering in Orlando (G'00?) to find someone at the con who couldn't go to the banquet and sold me theirs. I'd also think that if you've already registered for the con but didn't sign up for the banquet that if you asked the staff if you could add the banquet, they would let you.

Isn't pleasure just a measure of pain, or vice versa? What about masochists?

Didn't Jack the Ripper appear in the cartoon "Time Squad"?

Wow, kinda wish I would've been online during the recent snit. Maybe I'll go back and read through all the tripe that I started just skipping over, for a good laugh.

Greg B.> I had to laugh at the NYU comment. Made me think of a reply, but I don't want to offend any other NYU students/grads that might visit this board.
Actually, you HAVE used the "'I am right and you are wrong, so there' debating tactic" before. I know, you used it against me.

Todd> You actually read all his posts?!
"Maybe we should apologize to him" Isn't that a good way to become a doormat?
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Music Selection: Final Fantasy VI Original sound version
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 2:20:47 am EST from 63.20.41.143

Hey, question. Someone (I think it was Vashkoda, not sure) had a page that showed all the gargoyle clans and pictures of the members and stuff, and I'm wondering if that page still exists. Anyone have a link? The page was really cool and I want to see it again.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Cold does not bother us..." -Goliath "Reawakening"
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 1:52:02 am EST from 24.207.163.239

The Sadistic Cow - Thank you!!!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 1:36:55 am EST from 198.53.28.99

Sorry I stopped by. I don't honestly know what's worse... the virsu on my computer or this... can I even call it a person???

I hate to do this, but I agree with Siren:

arlo... FUCK OFF. Leave us alone!!!

(Sorry everyone).
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 1:34:59 am EST from 198.53.28.99

*worships Sadistic Cow* Thank you. But now...I'll just be accused for taking sides! HAHA! :D

I actually got to take a nap today (after 6 hours of x-mas shopping) and that same damn dream about getting the Gargoyles comic happened...and I woke up and had none. Least its not much longer for the wait. :D
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 1:32:23 am EST from 72.189.220.217

Gathering '07> It seems so much closer now that it's less than 200 days away. I need to look into reserving a room. Still not sure about the banquet though.
Asatira
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 12:49:11 am EST from 68.184.70.121

Just peeking in because it looks like this got buried under the drama llama...

KingCobra > You sign up for the banquet before the con by pre-registering for it. Gathering 2007 should have something on their web site about it.

22 days left before Gathering 2007 pre-registration prices increase (last day is December 31).
194 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"The report of my death was an exageration." - Mark Twain
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 12:42:28 am EST from 67.38.252.203

HofEyes> Keep in mind that gargoyles are generally more tolerant of cold temperatures than humans are.

Todd> I'll be interested to hear how Greg replies to that question of yours. All in all, Arlo's question is interesting. He just went the totally wrong way of trying to answer it himself. Sometimes it is very hard to see where the line is between asking a question and submitting an idea. I mean even a question can inspire ideas! Maybe the good that could come out all this is a clarification of the rules on the Main Page (if Greg W decides one is neccesary).
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Cold does not bother us..." -Goliath "Reawakening"
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 12:40:48 am EST from 24.207.163.239

Another reason it would make sense for Demona to have awoken first is because I think they arrived in Paris in the wintertime. Macbeth was certainly more appropriately attired against the elements than Demona, so I imagine she got a very rude awakening, quite suddenly.

As far as recent events are concerned, the only advice I can offer is for people to not be afraid to ask questions here. I've done so many times, and it works better for me, since I imagine that Greg has probably already answered a lot of the questions I ask here. Plus, you get a response sooner. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
Today I learned that when you're driving along a back road at midnight with caffeine withdrawal and indigestion, the song you want playing on your discman is Yes's "And You and I."
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 12:26:05 am EST from 69.175.67.68

Well, i didnt got insulted!! :D yey!!
Demon@ - [dot dot dot and where is the donkey??]
posted @ Sun, Dec 10, 2006 12:03:13 am EST from 200.114.213.102

(Bloody long post; sorry!)

Todd - I had written up a rather lengthy post in response to him, but I didn't and won't post it since at this point I consider the matter to be a closed case.

Most of *my* problem with him, and I suspect most of everyone else's problem, wasn't so much the question itself nor how he seemed to think he could interpret the rule how he wanted. It was the fact that nearly every single person who DID cross his path, whether or not they were talking *to* him, he immediately and without warrant claimed they were stupid and inferior, that they were wastes of space, and every other nasty thing he said.

Two people (if I remember right, Ed and JJ) were discussing thread boards, and it was commented on how trolls could wash through those types of boards very quickly and easily. One said they found some of his comments to be amusing, and that was pretty much all he said - Arlo took it upon himself to call this person a waste of space, even though that person DIDN'T insult him *at all*. Ed, I believe it was.

Every time *anyone* even so much as disagreed with Arlo, even if they didn't outright insult him, were savagely attacked by him simply for disagreeing. I don't see why he deserves an apology in those cases.

What he is doing is playing a guilt game. He wants to make everyone here feel guilty for "victimizing" him, pretending that he had done absolutely no wrong at all, ever, and that we should feel bad for getting angry with him when he calls us wastes of space, tells us we have no common sense, and that we are the stupid ones and there is no possible way HE could be wrong. He claims to have calmly, reasonably and rationally explained his case when he did not; the proof is still posted for all to see. He spoke with JJ reasonably at one point, but his "logic" was still wrong. And his other actions can't be ignored for the sake of one small, brief post to one individual. His one attempt to "help Siren out" was condescending and insulting.

He attacked Siren without warrant. He attacked Ed without warrant. He attacked me without warrant. He attacked several others, with and without warrant.

Things could have turned out differently if ALL parties had been more respectful, including him. WE cannot be held responsible for HIS actions, for HE decided to attack everyone who disagreed with him. It was HIS choice to take the particular path he went down. HIS choice to insult everyone and their brother, and what-have-you. Most of our actions were in response to HIS actions, which were horrendously disrespecting, insulting, and rude. We are responsible for our words and actions, yes, and in part those involved are to blame for the mess getting as ugly as it was. But I don't see why we should have to apologize to him for defending OURselves from HIS attacks. And I mean the people like Siren, myself, and several others who were not rude or insulting to him until he did so to us. People who didn't deserve it were attacked, and they fought back. Why should they have to apologize for defending themselves?

Everyone involved played their part, including him. It takes two to tango, after all, and one can't hold just ONE individual responsible for this. Catering to him at this point by apologizing and finding a way to submit his question (which I doubt he will want to change or edit, since he seems to truly believe he was in the right about it) will only swell his ego and make him think that he can fling insults like that at us again the next time, and every time, someone disagrees with him, and he can get away with it. Which isn't true.

If he apologized to us for flying off the handle like he did and insulting us, that would be fine. I don't care if he apologizes about anything else, like the question and rule issue, or admits that he's wrong about this or that. What I would prefer is an apology from him to the people he insulted without reason, and for stooping to that sort of level. He can have his opinion; he's entitled to it. But he's got no right to attack people like that for no reason, and expect them not to defend themselves. He condemned the very behaviour he was touting! That's just... meh.

*coughs* Said my piece. @_@


Greg B. - An ass! A big ol' hairy one, to boot. ;)
The Sadistic Cow
It's me and you against the world. So when do we attack?
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 10:35:39 pm EST from 24.150.120.87

Yeah Greg B. You are a bit of an ass sometimes. ;) I vaguely remember having some brushes with you, but apparently not important enough to remember what they were about...Again, my "I could give a f___" attitude. And if you knew me off this particular board....I curse like an f'in sailor. I am not shy about that. I just reserve myself to keeping such words silent because children can and do visit boards like this sometimes. And I usually stay out of the childish rantings that can happen here now and then. But when people get insulted that way, I wouldn't feel right if I didn't speak my mind. Even when its you being insulted. :P

Now please, don't use my sarcasim against me and treat me like dirt :P
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 10:28:30 pm EST from 72.189.220.217

I sent Greg Weisman an e-mail asking him about the basic argument that Arlo was giving of "Since S&P wouldn't allow 'Gargoyles' to include Jack the Ripper on-stage, it would be all right for me to ask about it in 'Ask Greg'", though instead of specifically mentioning Jack the Ripper, I said that Arlo's question involved a certain "real and particularly infamous historical figure" who wasn't Hitler - that last bit being a reference to Greg's mention of "No questions about whether Demona tried to assassinate Hitler during World War II". I'm hoping that Greg can supply some advice about that for future situations.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 10:25:04 pm EST from 4.244.18.230

I'll admit I've flown off the handle on a few people here in the past... okay, more than a few, but, in this case, I am not the slightest bit sorry. Yes, at first I was a little too sarcastic, but his later behavior wiped away any guilt I may have felt. I'm sorry, but I have never stooped so low as to tell people they're worthless like that. I've said some nasty things to people, but I usually prefer to go at them for how they're behaving, not them as people.

And, I don't think I've ever seen Siren use language like that in here. Which says a lot about how this guy was behaving.

I admit, I am often abrasive, I'm trying to temper that, I am. But, this guy... sorry, no guilt from me. No apologies from me.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 10:16:06 pm EST from 68.202.44.89

Todd>If he didn't insult everyone who "crossed his path", then yes I would. If he came back and apologized for what he said to me and the others, I would apologize for being harsh. He refused to see he was as much an aggressive if not the biggest one, due to the insults. Sarcasim and smartass remarks is not an excuse to insult people as he did. Sorry Todd, but I don't forgive such things so easily. Nor do I think anyone else needs to apologize to him. His arrogance and negativity fester and boil over. Look how much better the comment room got after he left and stopped posting so much a do about nothing. Rather then brush people off, he resorts to telling people they are worthless. Well, he is not worth my apology and I doubt it will change him one bit.
~fin
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 9:43:56 pm EST from 72.189.220.217

In looking over the recent Arlo debacle, I'm wondering if we couldn't have handled things much better than we did. One of the main things that concerned me about it was that there did seem to be an unnecessary amount of harshness on both sides (delivered particularly in the form of a lot of sarcasm). In reading Arlo's final post, I did wonder if maybe we all should have behaved differently than we did - maybe what he said was little more than a case of "Lord, I thank thee that I am not like these others" (I'll confess that that's the tone that his final post did display), but I'm not certain that we were entirely blameless ourselves, that we didn't respond in kind.

Maybe we shouldn't have focused as much on the fact that he wanted to submit his "Was Demona Jack the Ripper?" question to "Ask Greg", should have ignored it entirely. It's too late to change that now, but maybe we should learn from this for next time. As it is, we've convinced this person that we're dreadful people and that may, in turn, discourage other new "Gargoyles" fans from visiting this board.

Maybe we should apologize to him, and even find some way of submitting the question to "Ask Greg" in a more cautious form (as in "What was Demona doing in the last quarter of the 19th century?") that doesn't read like an idea masquerading as a question.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 9:31:55 pm EST from 4.244.18.230

Also there is the biological aspect. Pleasure and pain come from the same part of the brain (least from what I remember in PsychologyII). The Weird Sisters likely wouldn't have known or considered this in their spell, just as the Magus considered gargoyles being "unnatural" then. Science was not in the forefront and was barely even born then. So I guess in a biological, rather then a magical sense, they may feel pleasure when near eachother (that just sounded funny to me)
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 7:52:55 pm EST from 72.189.220.217

In reference to the pleasure/pain connection, there is no stipulation in the spell that says it includes pleasure, but maybe if one imagines that enough pleasure is interpereted by the same little section of the brain as pain, the spell would include it as pain. >.> <.< (In my head, it sounded really intelligent, but when I typed it, it seemed really stupid) >.<

Anyhoo. Hi everyone. :)
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodle, anyone?
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 7:45:02 pm EST from 205.188.117.68

The person in question didn't actually list the ideas that he wanted to share with Greg or describe them in detail; he just said that he wanted to talk to Greg about it. That isn't specifically listed in the rules as something that has to be automatically deleted (though maybe it should be), so I decided to let it pass. (I've been strongly tempted to delete the various questions that have apparently mistaken "Ask Greg" for "Ask Jeeves", but I discussed it with Greg Weisman first and he said that we'd have to let them stay.)

And, yes, I've accidentally let the wrong sort of questions slip by before. The trouble is, they were very subtle ones in the grey borderlands between a true question and an idea disguised as a question. When somebody asks if the Praying Gargoyle has this specific power or that, that's immediately recognizable as an idea in disguise. When somebody asks if the Praying Gargoyle has other powers that we don't know about without saying anything about what they might be, that isn't so blatantly obvious. And, yes, I'm sorry about that sort of thing when it happens.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 6:20:32 pm EST from 4.245.17.89

I too like this room the way it is. :)

Matt> "Greetings everyone from my new apartment. My boyfriend and I decided to get our own place, so that's pretty fun."

Congrats. My BF and I are also trying the same thing, except that my job BARELY pays enough to afford it, and he doesn't have a job, so we're holding off until one of our friends are able and willing to collaborate on a place with us.

TSC> A french hobo? *struggles but succumbs to his restrained chuckling* Nice, amusing mental visual, there. :P
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 6:18:13 pm EST from 209.239.132.51

I think Greg said that it was Thailog's idea, Demona was only too happy to go along with it.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 6:09:51 pm EST from 68.202.44.89

Greg B. - Very true. Though I wonder how she came up with the idea in the first place? Or was it all Thailog's plot? I can't remember if the episode said it or not, so I'm a bit curious about that.

Do the archives say anything about it? @_@
The Sadistic Cow
It's me and you against the world. So when do we attack?
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 5:51:55 pm EST from 24.150.120.87

I think Demona had to have woken up first, since while Macbeth may be confused by the red-head's Demona attire, he is not stupid, and would have to suspect something is up.

Same halter top and loincloth. Same jewelry... too much of a coincidence.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 4:59:13 pm EST from 68.202.44.89

Harvester - "That's an interesting thought. I suppose his mind would have registered the way she was dressed as just a freaky coincidence. ( ;"

Maybe he thought she was a French hobo. ;)
The Sadistic Cow
It's me and you against the world. So when do we attack?
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 4:11:38 pm EST from 24.150.120.87

Sorry for the double post, but I need to turn the Avatar back on.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I'm here to eat candy canes and kick ass! And I'm all out of candy canes!" -Kevin Murphy as Santa Claus.
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 4:04:44 pm EST from 69.175.67.68

SC: <I mean, Macbeth doesn't seem the type to leave a woman stranded unconcious somewhere, and (if I'm correct) if he didn't remember who she really was when human, that could have been their first "meeting".>

That's an interesting thought. I suppose his mind would have registered the way she was dressed as just a freaky coincidence. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I'm here to eat candy canes and kick ass! And I'm all out of candy canes!" -Kevin Murphy as Santa Claus.
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 4:04:16 pm EST from 69.175.67.68

Yeah, I like the Room the way it is. I'd rather any effort be put into making the Ask Greg part of the site better, though it has come a long way in the last few years thanks to Gorebash and others.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"The city sure is different when it snows..." "Yeah, it's colder." -Lex and Brook, "The Price"
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 3:58:02 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

One of the things about threaded boards that isn't so aesthetically pleasing to me is the frames, usually multiple frames. I'm sure there are many who prefer framed forums over the older style of frameless ones, though. And the frameless style I know of doesn't have the ability to bump threads to the top when they are replied to, which I think is important to have.

Overall though, I think the design here is just fine. Although I often find myself wishing I could edit my posts. ;)
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 3:50:41 pm EST from 209.162.56.94

Demon@ and Ntripy - Ahhh, I see. Thank you! I've read some fanfiction and in it the author(s) included pleasure as well as pain, though I was never sure if Greg W. had ever said anything about it. And I haven't read even half of the archives yet. ^^;

JJ and Ed - You know, I actually rather like the CR the way it is. It's got a nice layout, pleasing to the eye, and it's not that hard to navigate. If it was a threaded board I'd find it harder to get around (unless it was more like a forum, with different sections, etc). 'Course, in a way it would be a lot more organized, topic-wise. Gotta weigh the pros and cons of that. :) But, regardless, I like it as-is.

RE: Comic:

I really, really hope it does come out Wednesday. I'm patient with the all the lateness problems, and they don't bother me *that* much, but I still am excited and eager to see more. I only saw The Journey (episode) once, all those years ago, so I've forgotten most of it... and I want to see the second part in the comic. Like, *soon*. I'm all a-squee with joy and antici....PATION. ;)

Siren - Oh, wow! My only beef is the sound; it's kinda scratchy and the music and sound clips from the film don't mix. But that is probably just my computer being a poopyhead, yet again. :) The sound works wonderfully when the voice clips and music aren't going at the same time, and you picked a GREAT score to do it with!

Man, do I love that movie... I still have the original VHS copy that mom bought for us when we were little. The animation, the characters, they were all so incredible! It's been a long, long time but my favourite characters were always Schmendrick and King Haggard. And that creepy Mommy Fortuna. *shudders* She STILL gives me the willies!

And oooooh!! Coming to DVD in February! .... I MUST GET! XD

Matt - Huh, good question. Which gave me an interesting thought... what if they had woken up during the day, when Demona was human? I haven't seen that episode in a long time, and the details are sketchy, but I seem to recall that Macbeth had forgotten Demona turns into a human during the day. So, if he didn't know who she was as a human, he could very well have decided to be a "gentleman" and "help" her.

I mean, Macbeth doesn't seem the type to leave a woman stranded unconcious somewhere, and (if I'm correct) if he didn't remember who she really was when human, that could have been their first "meeting". I'm not entirely sure if Demona remembered him immediately or not, but if she did she might have immediately siezed upon his lack of memory, and from there begin her plot. So, if he woke up first with no memory of that, they could have begun their "relationship" with that as the "meeting point", and Demona used his lost memory against him.

If that makes any sense... think I'm gettin' a cold, so my brain ain't working that well right now. XD
The Sadistic Cow
It's me and you against the world. So when do we attack?
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 3:28:47 pm EST from 24.150.120.87

Just to be clear, just in case, that all was sarcasm.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 3:26:29 pm EST from 209.162.56.94

Obviously, the fact that Todd made a mistake and the movie pitch got through proves that Greg's rule against movie pitches is stupid and worthless, and because Greg made this stupid rule obviously he is a waste of life. Also Todd is a waste of life because he made a mistake. It's all perfectly logical.

Also it proves "scientifically" that rules are intended to be broken.

And you can't argue with me because I used logic.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 3:21:29 pm EST from 209.162.56.94

*goes into ASK GREG for a second*

How did that one get past Todd?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I'm here to eat candy canes and kick ass! And I'm all out of candy canes!" -Kevin Murphy as Santa Claus.
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 1:46:05 pm EST from 69.175.67.68

Astaria>There is a reason for that. The video was a trailer. And the point of most movie trailers is to give something, without revealing everything. Amalthea was a great big twist for the book/movie. I didn't want to reveal it. Even in a glimpse. However, I did add a few of her quotes and the spell of Schmendrick at the end, with Molly asking "What have you done?". The idea for the audience who hasn't seen the movie or read the book, so wonder the same thing.
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 1:45:25 pm EST from 72.189.220.217

Heres a Macbeth/Demona question:

When they were sent from Avalon in a skiff together they were passed out. Avalon took them to Paris. Once there, who woke up first? I'm guessing Demona, because if Macbeth had woke up first he probably would've just killed Demona, right? Still, it is surprising that Demona would just wake up and flee, leaving Macbeth behind.
Matt - [St dot Louis, Missouri, USA]
"The city sure is different when it snows..." "Yeah, it's colder." -Lex and Brook, "The Price"
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 12:27:29 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

Siren> very nice. My only gripe is there was no sign of Lady Almathea(sp?). Just a glimpse from the distance would have been enough. BUT, I also recognize it may not add anything to it, I still love it. I'll have to check out your other vids. Oh, and I went ahead and ordered the DVD from the site. Would have forgotten otherwise. :p
Asatira
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 11:52:05 am EST from 68.184.70.121

Yep
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 11:48:47 am EST from 68.202.44.89

So Issue 1 was Clan-building: Nightwatch and Issue 2 is Clan-Building: The Journey?
Matt - [St dot Louis, Missouri, USA]
"The city sure is different when it snows..." "Yeah, it's colder." -Lex and Brook, "The Price"
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 11:48:02 am EST from 24.207.163.239

MATT> The title on issue 2 is "The Journey".

Hmm, the "I am right and you are wrong, so there" debating tactic... I gotta try that one some time. Hmm, nah, too arrogant. Even for me.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 11:40:22 am EST from 68.202.44.89

Recent response on Ask Greg to someone wanting Greg to e-mail him/her to talk about the person's story ideas for a "Gargoyles" movie:

Greg responds...

You've read the guidelines... and ignored them.

<sigh>

Look the guidelines are there for a reason, and they apply to everyone.

And I don't take pitches (or read fanfiction) on ANYTHING Gargoyles related, because -- as it clearly states in the guidelines -- I have my own ideas, and I hope to make those ideas a reality someday, and I don't want to risk getting sued.

So (a) I don't contact anyone personally by e-mail through this site, because if I did it for one, I'd have to do it for all, and where would it end? And (b) why would I reward you for breaking the rules?
Anonymous
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 11:34:37 am EST from 209.94.139.18

Dropped...

Hey, someone mentioned something not being on GargWiki and I have to say, it something isn't there, add it! I'd love for it to become a total resource with EVERYTHING there.

Have we even gotten a title yet on Issue 2?
Matt - [St dot Louis, Missouri, USA]
"The city sure is different when it snows..." "Yeah, it's colder." -Lex and Brook, "The Price"
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 11:24:17 am EST from 24.207.163.239

TY Ed and Matt

In other news...I know there are at least a few Last Unicorn fans here. Or people who at least would strike a fancy to it, if they never heard of it before...I finished up a trailer for the animated movie with a small message at the end if you like what you see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X7ExRMnmfw
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 11:23:05 am EST from 72.189.220.217

Gee people drop it already
Demon@ - [dot dot dot and where is the donkey??]
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 11:08:28 am EST from 200.114.213.102

I can't believe I'm doing this, but Arlo...

Some points to consider:

- You said, "But Greg still chooses to respond to the questions that get through, rather than ignoring them." That is clearly not true. Many times Greg has refused to answer questions for all sorts of reasons. And he ignores plenty of questions. That is his right.
- Saying you have proven your case is ludicrous. You cannot be in an argument and simply declare yourself the winner. If you had proven your case, people wouldn't still be debating their points with you. I'd put money on Greg Weisman saying your question was unacceptable to be submitted to him, are you gonna tell Grg W that he is wrong about the rules HE wrote? The fact that someone mentions Timedancer and suddenly you are saying you could be wrong shows even you are not confident in your argument.
- Who started "the fight" hardly matters, though I tend to think you and others are equally responsible for that. The problem people are having with you, and the reason they are coming off as a troll is that most of us have barely ever seen you in this Room before and our only perception of you is as a irrational, name-calling troublemaker. Prove that perception wrong and you'll do well for yourself here. If that perception is accurate then just leave now.
- Saying the majority is always wrong is ludicrous also. I mean, think about how silly that is.
- It is bad enough calling people idiots and whatnot, I've been called worse, but your childish insults to Siren are totally unacceptable. You are a troll because you are doing everything to follow the troll stereotype. You have done NOTHING to show us you are not a troll.
- I read up on everything before I said anything. Greg B was being an ass, I'm not gonna deny that, but you have been far worse. And there is something Greg B has that you do not: Greg B has been on ongoing contributer to this Room and the fandom for YEARS. He can be annoying sometimes, we all can, but he is part of this community. You just recently strolled in here and started pissing people off, you have no credibility here and there is no reason for anyone to take you that seriously, you havn't paid your dues. If you want to stick around, we'd love to have you, but you need to leave the insults at the door at least. There is nothing wrong with debating Ask Greg rules here, but you have taken it far beyond a debate. For you it is a contest to be right, a chance to belittle people, and an oppurtunity to bring your drama into the Room. At this point, do you really expect everyone to bow to you and tell you how right you are? Not gonna happen, at this point if I were you, I'd start doing some serious damage control, or at least drop this argument, it is not helping you.
- Oh, and what is with that superiority complex of yours anyway? People who are more intelligent or whatever than their peers generally don't have to try to force that down their peers throats. And then you say that you've argued your case calmly, rationally and reasonably! Unbelievable.

Anyway, sorry everyone, couldn't resist. And anyway, looks like I was right, hes leaving now. We can go back to being stupid, worthless, Greg W-hating fans. Hooray! Silly trolls.
Matt - [St dot Louis, Missouri, USA]
"The city sure is different when it snows..." "Yeah, it's colder." -Lex and Brook, "The Price"
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 10:18:34 am EST from 24.207.163.239

Shit, I meant "been fun to watch."
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I'm here to eat candy canes and kick ass! And I'm all out of candy canes!" -Kevin Murphy as Santa Claus.
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 9:20:57 am EST from 69.175.67.68

Hmmm, character similarities. I've always found myself relating to Renard's struggle for integrity.

And on that note, I've always wondered what that scene in "Outfoxed" would have been like had Demona been in the cage instead of Goliath. Probably wouldn't have taught her much, but it would have been to watch.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I'm here to eat candy canes and kick ass! And I'm all out of candy canes!" -Kevin Murphy as Santa Claus.
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 9:20:23 am EST from 69.175.67.68

Ed, thanks for proving you're a waste of life too. Common sense just doesn't get through to you, does it?

JJ, I don't know why you're insulting me when it's been proven that I'm in the right. Unless you're just a waste too.

Anyway, I'll say that this board is a disappointment to me. I have no desire to chat with people so empty of any amount of sense or reason. And since so many people want me to stop coming and call me a troll even when it's so obvious that I'm not one, rather than jeopradize any hope Gargoyles has left by having all of NYU banned from this site, I'm just going to be the bigger person here and leave you all.

But not before leaving you all with a friendly word of advice. Honestly, this room has been nothing but a disappointment to me. I grew up always being more intelligent/insightful than my peers. Gargoyles was the one show I really clicked with, because it was the only show that acknowledged the deeper truths in life. The only show that seemed to understand and speak to how ignorant the human race can be at times. On the Season One DVD, one of the people at the Gathering said the show spoke to people who maybe weren't part of the regular crowd but wanted to be good deep down, inside. I expected this to be a community of people who were somewhat above the average member of society in intellect and insight.

Instead, I try to participate in this community, I submit questions to Greg, I try to start friendly discussions in here, and some guy decides to jump down my throat about something so stupid and insignificant. Because I have the audacity to stand up for myself rather than sit there and take it, several people have the nerve to label me a troll and tell me I only come onto boards to start trouble--when I was defending myself, and didn't even start anything at all.

So I rationally argue my case, calmly and reasonably, and I'm laughed at for using logical means, or told I'm not worth speaking to immediately after proving someone wrong. When I cite matters of insight that should have been learned by anyone who even remotely payed attention to the show, I find that apparently, no one here learned anything from the show. And seemingly, they only fell in love with it for its action or some such nonsense.

And yet you guys all wonder why there isn't more community support for such a great show as Gargoyles. I'll tell you why. It's because people act like this. I used to think you would all be a nice, reasonable, intelligent group of people. I used to sit around wondering how any show so good, so insightful, could not have more fans supporting it. And then I find out why. It's because the fan community behaves like this. I'm a die-hard Star Trek fan, but I'll admit that Gargoyles may even be better than Star Trek. And yet Star Trek has more fans. Everyone I talk to has heard of Gargoyles. This COULD be a major fan community. But it's not. Because people behave like this. And drive off any would be fans from supporting the return of Gargoyles.

The real victim of this is Greg Weissman. When I read the archives, I used to just think Greg was a jerk. Now I understand why he responds to your questions the way he does. Just think of the heartache he must feel to know that of his great masterpiece that was taken away from him, the only hope he has of getting it back, is the support of a few fans who behave like this, and on top of that, they apparently didn't even learn anything from watching the show. Honestly, that must crush Greg way more than TGC ever did. Ten times over. Siren was right when she said Greg's a saint for putting up with you guys. It's a miracle he's stayed around as long as he has. I don't see how he could possibly have done that. He must REALLY want Gargoyles back, to stick around this long.

Anyway, that's all I have to say. I'm leaving you guys in peace to be immature and deliberately ignorant amongst yourselves. And don't kid yourselves into thinking this is Matt's statement about trolls leaving after a few days. A troll could never be so disgusted with a sorry lot, so able to disprove any and all of your arguments, or so sorrowful at your existence. I sincerely hope that you all grow up someday. Not for me, but for the Gargoyles project. For there's truly no hope for Gargoyles to succeed in any form--comic book or otherwise--as long as the majority of its supporters behave like this. The only time I will ever come back here is to check for new issues coming out. I won't participate in this room at all in any other way. I will certainly continue to do my part to spread the word amongst the NYU community, but I will certainly not bring them to this site--that would only hurt the Gargoyles cause.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 7:27:17 am EST from 65.143.83.244

JJ: No, it doesn't change my mind one bit about a threaded board. Besides, I've been on threaded boards where the trolls spread across threads like cancer. If anything, it's more obvious on the one board. Although I admit I've chuckled at some of the comments. Particularly the various comments on "logic" and the comment timestamped 2.42am.

Character similarity: This is really hard. But I'm going to go with... Natsilane. I just like the guy.

Siren: Like he's ever going to get his head out of his arse. He's either got a loose screw or he's just screwing with the board for a laugh. Either way, it's not worth taking a blind bit of notice.
Ed
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 5:37:13 am EST from 213.187.39.235

Heck, I can double-post too.
Just saw this. Siren, do you mean "get his head out of ..." or "get *its* head out of"?
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 4:39:59 am EST from 206.57.91.97

Y'know, this *is* quite fascinating from a anthropological viewpoint...
... or a virtual movie standpoint. Popcorn anyone?

***
Also, notice how several discussions have been killed by the main "heated debate"? Notice how you can't ignore it even if you want to?

Do you now want separate threads? ;-)
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 4:35:44 am EST from 206.57.91.97

Oh yeah. And "You come here and start your drama." That shows you weren't paying attention. AGAIN.

And I don't feel I stooped to a lower level by responding. If anything, there's no level lower than that of the person who begins fights. Except maybe that of the person who doesn't care who's in the right when she chooses sides. Which justifies my calling you worthless. But like I said, it's all irrelevent. You're just ignoring the issue here.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 4:30:13 am EST from 65.143.84.165

Siren>The only way to ban me from this site is to ban the entire NYU community. That probably wouldn't be a big help to the "Spread the Word" movement. Especially given that I've been trying to spread the word among the NYU community. But that's assuming that Gorebash doesn't give a crap who's in the right, like the rest of you.

Whether or not you think I shouldn't have fought back, or think I shouldn't have stooped to a lower level, is irrelevent. The fact of the matter is that if you have a problem with this, you should take it up with the person who started it. You have no right to get upset with someone for defending themselves.
Whether or not you think I have my head up my ass is also irrelevent. You're just avoiding the fact that you're in the wrong again. An easy way to ignore your guilt.

If you don't feel it's an insult to call someone a troll, then I don't know why you came down on me for calling Greg a troll. Especially when that was only in response to him calling me a troll.

Yes, I was calling you worthless. You really hit the nail on the head there. All I've done is to explain rationally why your life has no worth. If you want to change that, start defending the INNOCENT PEOPLE and start GIVING A FUCK WHO'S IN THE RIGHT BEFORE YOU GET INVOLVED IN DISPUTES. Then I won't be able to call you worthless, even if I want to.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 4:28:26 am EST from 65.143.84.165

Since you want to label yourself the victim here...lemme put it in black and white...

Arlo to me "that your life is overall, a waste of energy."

That is the same as saying I am better off dead. FUCK YOU. I hope Gorebash bans you. You are disgusting. You come here and start your drama. I don't care Greg called you a troll first, that doesn't give you the right to stoop to a LOWER level. Why don't you GROW up and take the high ground, rather then start all this bullshit and then say in a baby voice, "but I was a victim"....Calling someone a troll isn't a crime, so you aren't a victim. So stop playing innocent. But saying someone is a waste or worthless....wow, I bet you're the kid the bullies always pick on, so you come online to have some sort of authority and put people down. Shut the fuck up.

Gorebash, I'm sorry for my language, but that's just me. Once you read this, please, take it down if you want to. It won't bother me....but someone had to say it to him.

I am so done with this place till he gets his head out of his ass.
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 4:21:04 am EST from 72.189.220.217

Siren>Accusing me of calling him a troll when he clearly called me one, leads me to doubt that you read the whole conversation. And you clearly accused me of starting the fight when I did not. I think it's pretty obvious you chose sides.

Further, if you read the whole conversation, then you either didn't pay attention, or didn't care who was in the right when you chose sides. Further proving my point about your life being insignificant. If you're honestly sitting here still refusing to admit when you're so clearly in the wrong, then it's obvious that talking to you is the waste of time. You could clearly learn a lot from me. And don't kid yourself about the drama queen thing either. I'm simply responding to being attacked. Your choosing to call me a drama queen and portray me as someone not worth talking to, rather than admit you were wrong, clearly shows that you know you were wrong and don't want to admit it.

Choosing not to respond to me anymore is just fine. It may be hard for you to understand, but I'm not the one who's at a loss here. In addition, because I have logically proven that you're in the wrong so many times, and because you've submitted no counter argument other than "I don't want to admit I'm wrong, so I'm calling you a drama queen even though logic proves I'm in the wrong," I have no choice but to conclude that your decision to stop responding to me, is a sign that you know you are wrong and would rather ignore the situation, than admit it. Thus, this is no loss for me. Don't kid yourself into thinking it is.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 4:15:11 am EST from 65.143.84.165

Arlo, my dear, I wasn't choosing sides. I read the whole thing. I don't fricken care how dramatic you wanna be about it. And I don't waste my time with people like you. Because you feed off the negative energy. So consider this my last message to you till you can get over your little drama queen moment here.
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 4:06:12 am EST from 72.189.220.217

And now I'm apologizing for this multiple post because JJ hadn't submitted that last response when I started typing my last response.

JJ>Excellent point. I hadn't thought of that. But I still don't see how he would have actually brought Demona as Jack the Ripper into the story. If Brook discovered that Demona was Jack the Ripper, wouldn't there have to be a major storyline which included Demona secretly killing women in the middle of the night? I don't see how he could pull that off without showing us quite a bit of stuff that S&P wouldn't allow--in a TV series, or in a comic book.

But if you can come up with a way, I'll gladly admit I was wrong. At this point, I don't even think this is what the fight's about anymore. It's more about the fact that some people like to start fights, and some people like to get involved with them without finding out what's going on first--and DON'T like to admit when they're in the wrong for siding with the agressor and not the victim.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 4:05:43 am EST from 65.143.84.165

Okay I'm sorry for this third post, but after I submitted the last two, it occurred to me that this may have indirectly been dealt with in the archives. So to show Siren more consideration than she shows others, I'll help her out here.

Greg has answered this before, saying that they don't feel each other's pain unless they're close together (i.e. Demona doesn't feel Macbeth's finger being pricked by a pin when they're in two seperate countries). Also, the more intense the pain, the greater the likelihood that the other will feel it. He also said that other feelings like pleasure, can also be shared between them, but they have to be very close for it to happen.

In an unrelated question, he mentioned that magic isn't an exact science in the Gargoyles Universe. So putting two and two together, I'm concluding that the Weird Sisters spell only described pain, but in the mystical, non-scientific sense, other feelings just happen to be shared as well. Just as a side-effect of the spell, rather than the actual purpose of the spell. One of the spell's purposes was to cause them to share pain, but it's not an exact science, so as a side effect, they can share other things too--but they have to be closer to each other for that to happen, than they do to share pain. At least, that's my interpretation of his responses, based on what he's revealed so far.

But Siren is correct when she says the original spell didn't mention the sharing of feelings other than pain.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 4:02:08 am EST from 65.143.84.165

Arlo
Re: Seeing Demona as Jack the Ripper:
There is a storyline/spinoff proposed by Greg Weisman for Gargoyles entitled "TimeDancer" involving the adventures of a time travelling Brooklyn. (For more information, use the search feature in "Ask Greg")

Greg could easily have Brooklyn discover that Demona is Jack the Ripper in "TimeDancer."
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 3:57:38 am EST from 206.57.91.97

Spen>If that's the case, I apologize. I thought it was more considerate to everyone to divide my responses by seperate posts, rather than respond to five people in one post. And a lot of people responded to me. I had a lot to respond to. Imagine how long that would have been in one post.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 3:48:45 am EST from 65.143.84.165

Siren>Choosing sides randomly with no regard for who is in the right, is far more childish than defending one's self. Thank you for incontrovertibly proving that you have no regard for treating others with fairness or justice, that you are content to go with the flow rather than questioning anything for yourself, that you prefer to whine rather than admit when you know you're wrong, that you are a meaningless unthinking person incapable of rational discussion, and that your life is overall, a waste of energy.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 3:46:57 am EST from 65.143.84.165

Psst...Let's just keep the discussion about Gargoyles and other FUN stuff and ignore....the childish bickering of "he started it!"

On Greg Weisman's comment on feeling pleasure, I dunno. I guess that is either something he didn't mean and said by accident or was planning to reveal it in the future, but I am tending to lean towards the Weird Sisters' literal spell of feeling pain
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 3:30:42 am EST from 72.189.220.217

Arlo : Just so you know, posting multiple messages in a row is generally considered to be a form of trolling.
Spen
"Never put off 'til tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow" - Mark Twain
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 3:25:33 am EST from 216.248.119.208

Oh, one more thing. If you guys actually believe that the "the majority says so, so it must be true!" argument is valid, then I suggest you watch EVERY EPISODE OF GARGOYLES again FROM START TO FINISH.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 2:42:50 am EST from 65.143.84.165

Oh yeah, and to any people who used the "Four people have disagreed with you, and none think you're right," argument: that argument MIGHT carry weight if I hadn't used logic to debunk the notion that my question violated the rules. As it is, I've debunked all of your arguments, and no argument has been presented which debunks mine. Therefore, my argument is taken to be correct until someone debunks it, regardless of the number of people who choose to disagree. Choosing to disagree with a logical proof doesn't actually make the proof less valid, it just shows the intelligence level of those who choose to disagree. So my argument still stands. Also, given that virtually every belief that any of you hold dear to your hearts, was founded and taught by people who were deemed crazy and ostracized from their communities for having such beliefs, the "majority says so, so it must be true!" argument doesn't work. If anything, it's the minority that can be trusted to be right. The fact that the majority of people here may disagree with me, only gives my argument more weight.

Also, this argument basically just comes down to whether or not we believe the rules should be followed to the letter, even when they serve no purpose, or interpreted more as thinking human beings would interpret them. If there's anyone here who thinks Greg Weissman believes in following rules to the letter with no room for comprimise, then I suggest that person watch "Outfoxed" again and pay attention to Goliath's speech to Renard at the end.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 2:31:35 am EST from 65.143.84.165

Greg>I'll grant you that maybe Greg Weissman has more freedom than I thought, to write Jack the Ripper into the Gargoyles universe. But also, it's a lot different to have the character of Jack the Ripper make a minor appearance where small children wouldn't even get the message, than it is to have a major character secretly be Jack the Ripper. I don't see how he would hint at Demona being Jack the Ripper, or why he would want to do that. You can't really pull that off on a series as serious as Gargoyles. Not without getting more involved and putting a lot more into it than he would be allowed to, even in a comic.

And whoever made that statement about "blood is in a cartoon, so Jack the Ripper can be in a cartoon," I shouldn't even have to explain why those are two totally different things. You're comparing apples and oranges.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 2:22:27 am EST from 65.143.84.165

SC>In the context, your initial post definitely sounded rude. But maybe that was more a reflection of Greg's post. If you didn't mean your remark to be rude, then I apologize for calling you stupid. Greg's remark, however, clearly was insulting, as others acknowledged.

I didn't interpret the rule the way I wanted, I interpreted it the only logical way to interpret it: based on the questions Greg & co. have accepted in the past. Yes, I understand Todd makes mistakes. But Greg still chooses to respond to the questions that get through, rather than ignoring them. So it's safe to assume that the rule is flexible, not set in stone--which makes sense, because this is SUPPOSED to be a friendly community. And no, I'm not a troll. I'm someone who defends himself. A troll is someone who goes into comment rooms to start fights. I didn't start a fight, someone started it with me. I responded. I'm not to blame for that. Sorry to break it to you. The bottom line is, if I didn't start shit, I'm not a troll. I don't know why anyone here has a problem understanding the obvious.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 2:18:27 am EST from 65.143.84.165

Matt>I suggest you actually read all the posts before you start typing. This guy clearly started crap with me. I was being perfectly nice to people, and came up with a suggestion for a chat topic. GREG got all pissed and started the fight. No, I'm not an idiot who comes to a room to start trouble and leaves within a week. YOU are an idiot who gets involved with stuff without getting his facts straight first.

Siren>You need to pay attention too. Greg called me a troll for standing up to him. I pointed out that he started the fight, so he's the troll. I didn't just call him a troll for disagreeing with me. "He's a troll just for having his opinion?" That shows you didn't even bother to read the whole discussion before you got involved. READ before you TAKE SIDES. It helps prevent you from making a fool out of yourself. THANKS.

And yes, he did start the fight. If you wanna get technical and argue that having an attitude and saying "What's wrong with you?" isn't insulting someone, then it's obvious that you're just splitting hairs. The fact is if I'm attacked, I'm gonna stand up for myself. If you or Matt think that makes me immature, that's you're problem, and you're clearly the immature people here.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 2:14:09 am EST from 65.143.84.165

*Digs through the CR closet, finds a sign and pulls it out*

"Don't Feed The Trolls!"

I knew we hadn't lost that thing. Let's stop talking about the trolls, hopefully they are done talking as well.

So, is the comic still okay to go for launch on Wednesday? Anything new?
Matt - [St dot Louis, Missouri, USA]
"The city sure is different when it snows..." "Yeah, it's colder." -Lex and Brook, "The Price"
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 2:09:23 am EST from 24.207.163.239

39 questions left from 2005 and counting.

*pulls out hot dogs and marshmellows on sticks to be cooked by the heat in this cr*

Somebody oughta burn all the nearby bridges so we can't have trolls hiding under them.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 2:05:47 am EST from 71.30.132.131

Thanks for the response guys, especially to Siren for the word for word transcription :) That would sinch it for me too, but then there is Greg W's comments;


Lord Sloth writes...

When Dominique was pretending to love Macbeth, was there any instant that she got hurt in his presence (stubed her toe or something)? Also, is it JUST pain that Demona and Macbeth both feel? Or can one feel the other touching his\her skin? How bout plessure? If Ms. Destine was to go as far as to bed with Macbeth (though I doubt that would happen), would that be VERY INTERESTING for Macbeth? I tend to think like this a lot.

Thanks
Greg responds...

Simple touching doesn't pass from one to the other. Intense feelings of pain and pleasure would.

And no, obviously Dominique was careful not to be in range when she was transforming. And she didn't slip up either.



Jonathan Anderson writes...

"31. What is the extent of the sensations that can be felt between Demona and Macbeth via their link? Can they feel other things besides pain?

Greg's answer:

Simple touching doesn't pass from one to the other. Intense feelings of pain and pleasure would."

So if the happened to have sex, it would be some sort of transfering chain re-action of pleasure?
Greg responds...

In theory.


So according to Greg W, pleasure is definitely part of the link, even though it wasn't mentioned in the Sisters spell, which is also the case for the "distance" rule.

The spell doesn't mention diminished pain at a certain distance, so thats two aspects of the spell which weren't literally spoken. Makes me wonder if there are any other unspoken terms...
Ntripy
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 1:59:32 am EST from 72.232.196.138

I think I'll add Arlo to a list of my own: The list of people who enter the Comment Room, start trouble and eventually dissapear never to be seen again. Don't worry everyone, he'll be gone soon enough, his type always leave eventually.

Greetings everyone from my new apartment. My boyfriend and I decided to get our own place, so that's pretty fun. Hey Todd, we have an apartment in the Central West End at the corne of Newstead and West Pine. You nearby? You do live in this neighborhood, don't you?

Macbeth/Demona> I've always wondered what the distance is for feeling pain, and why distance matters at all anyway.
Matt - [St dot Louis, Missouri, USA]
"The city sure is different when it snows..." "Yeah, it's colder." -Lex and Brook, "The Price"
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 1:15:58 am EST from 24.207.163.239

Wow, this is the first time I read a real fight in here. As everyone is cursing I will allow myself to: DAMN IT, CALM DOWN!!!
You are acting like overgrown kids, this is not a place to fight I guess and not to be cursing damn it!!! If you will not tape a video showing you both fighting in a pool of mud then stop the fighting. Or fight through msn…yeah I have done that many times…SO WHAT?!
As for Demona been Jack the Ripper, that's a very interesting point. Though as others have pointed out, it's not her style.
But say, what if something had happened to her, something so bad and so terrible that for a moment her mind just slip out. Maybe she was dating a gargoyle and maybe that gargoyle had a friend, a human friend, that instead of been a cop was a …uh… prostitute! Demona wasn't happy with this human friend so she decided make this gargoyle to see the danger the human represented. He wouldn't listen to her and kept been friend with the human.
Something happened and our poor gargoyle male (or female, whatever) got killed and somehow our prostitute had something to do with it. Say Demona was so sad and furious and frustrated that went after her. She killed her but it wasn't enough. She needed more blood, as she had needed it after her clan's destruction (we haven't seen what happened between the massacre of Wyvern and the time of the older Demona after all, only that part in which she rips the hunters face off when he was a kid). So, well, you figure out the rest.
You see everything make sense, Greg, if you give it one push… ;)
The Sadistic Cow> actually yes he did say that. Someone asked that once (I'm too tired right now to check for it :P) and Greg said that only intense feelings of pain and pleasured would past from one to the other.
Demon@ - [Thise is a joke thise is a joke]
posted @ Sat, Dec 9, 2006 1:13:15 am EST from 200.114.213.102

Siren - "The room has got PMS again..."

Ever notice it happens, like, once a month? ;) The CR is a woman, through and through!


Harvester - "Awww, so does this mean I don't get to submit my theory about Demona and Donald Duck being twins seperated at birth? ( ;"

... I think my brain just had an aneurism while trying to imagine that. o.O *L*


Ntripy - "Hey all, new person here. I was looking through the archives and saw Greg W state that the link between Macbeth and Demona allows them to share intense feelings of pleasure and pain."

I'm not sure what Greg W. has said since in response to any questions, but from what I saw in the show it was simply pain.
The Sadistic Cow
It's me and you against the world. So when do we attack?
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 11:27:12 pm EST from 24.150.120.87

Ntripy>Welcome to the board, sorry you came at a "bad" time...I call it Comment Room PMS...Happens now and then...

On Demona/Macbeth's spell...

Here is the incantation from the Weird Sisters

"Across the mists of space and time
we pose this covenant sublime:
Macbeth his youth doth offer here,
to make this one a force to fear,
While she with fang and claw and wing
doth swear sweet death his foes to bring.
By their acceptance are they consigned
unto each other's fate designed,
forever and eternal bound,
and each the other's pain resound."

So that pretty much sinches it. They don't feel eachother's pleasure, only eachother's pain
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 11:19:00 pm EST from 72.189.220.217

*dodges the current tiffs to be cordial to the guest*
Hi, Ntripy. Welcome to the room. Ignore the current tiff, it happens every now and then. As to your question, I think the pleasure aspect may have come up in a fanfic somewhere. Don't have the exact wording, but I believe the Weird Sisters' spell pretty much focused on pain. Anyone else care to clarify?
Asatira
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 11:03:51 pm EST from 68.184.70.121

I love it when my internet kicks out mysteriously for a few hours.

*looks back over what he's missed for the last few hours*

Awww, so does this mean I don't get to submit my theory about Demona and Donald Duck being twins seperated at birth? ( ;

Greg B: Loved the Colbert picture. You'll have to tell me where that came from. And forgive me for doing this, because I know you usually like to ask this, but I just have to know...

Arlo: How old are you?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
Today at work, I had to review a motor vehicle accident report. And the name of the witness on the report was Charles Kane. I win!
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 10:52:12 pm EST from 69.175.67.68

Hey all, new person here. I was looking through the archives and saw Greg W state that the link between Macbeth and Demona allows them to share intense feelings of pleasure and pain.

I haven't seen that episode in a long time but I don't remember "pleasure" being a stipulation made by the Weird Sisters. I couldn't find the exact terms of the spell in the archive and its not in the gargwiki, so can anyone tell me if that was part of the spell?
Ntripy
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 10:52:08 pm EST from 72.232.196.138

Also want to add a side-thought...

Its any wonder Greg Weisman even puts up with this lot half the time. I really commend the man for sticking with us even when he sees this baby-boo-hoo crap.

All I saw from Sadistic Cow and Greg B was OPINIONS....While, Arlo....you sir, need to watch your mouth, it flaps way too easily with insults. State your OPINIONS on what someone says, without lowering yourself to playground antics of calling people names.
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 10:49:36 pm EST from 72.189.220.217

The room has got PMS again...

A troll is someone who doesn't stick around long. Greg B. has been around here a LOOOONG time.

Second...WTF? The guy has an OPINION and he's said to be a TROLL....I don't see eye to eye with everyone in this world, but those who don't share my opinions are not trolls. They might be wrong, but they aren't trolls ;)

But knock off the name calling. How old are we anyways? Most mature people know the difference between an opinion and trolling.
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 10:45:48 pm EST from 72.189.220.217

SC> "If anyone is a troll here, it's you. Greg Bishanksy is not a troll, he is simply an ass. (Sorry, man. :P)"

LOL... thanks. :)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 10:19:54 pm EST from 68.202.44.89

Arlo - It always warms my heart to the core to be informed that I am both stupid and have no common sense. Thank you, Arlo, for showing me the light. Ignore the fact that I said nothing nasty against you in the first place, and was merely informing you of the rules *as they are* and did absolutely *nothing* to deserve the insults you hurled in my direction. I never realized that telling somebody THE RULES was considered to be a form of attack. Pardon me for attempting to impart knowledge upon another.

Look. Many have already quoted said rule. Sometimes there are accidents, and things slip through the cracks. Shit happens. They can't catch EVERYTHING, and to expect them to catch every single tiny thing is ludicrous. These are FANS, they are doing it ON THEIR OWN TIME, and NOT getting paid for it. In every situation, accidents happen. That is NOT an invitation to you to submit any questions that may be ideas.

Who are you to say what rule is or isn't unimportant? Greg Weisman made that rule for a REASON. Pretend for a moment that your question got through, and later on - in another, completely different project - you see something that you THINK may have been an idea of YOURS. What then? You could sue him for stealing an idea! Do you understand? I'm not trying to be an ass, here, but the rule exists for a reason: to protect Greg Weisman. It doesn't matter whether he can use the idea in Gargoyles or not; an idea is an idea, and is not allowed.

The fact alone that you felt the need to call Greg B. and I stupid and claim that neither of us have common sense speaks for itself. Why? Because YOU are the one who actually, truly insulted someone first. Your response that Greg W. couldn't use the idea was a flippant remark, one that speaks loudly of your opinion that you can submit any idea you want, which obviously was incorrect based on THE RULES. Greg B.'s question of "What is wrong with you?" wasn't an insult; it was a question about how you could possibly think/believe that. If he had insulted you, he would have told you that you were "this" or "that".

Yes, you DID interpret the rule how you wanted. Who are you to say what Greg W. will or will not use in a future episode? How can you say what he will or will not use later on? If you go with that theory, then ANYONE can submit whatever they want, because they think Greg will never use it. And that opens a whole new can of beans.

If anyone is a troll here, it's you. Greg Bishanksy is not a troll, he is simply an ass. (Sorry, man. :P)

Just drop it.
The Sadistic Cow
It's me and you against the world. So when do we attack?
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 9:53:30 pm EST from 24.150.120.87

Ed> I agree fully with every word there.

*slithers back into the darkness*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 9:14:26 pm EST from 209.239.132.197

Arlo: The whole point of the rule is that if it's revealed in response to a question, Greg can never convincingly claim he came up with the idea. What proof does he have that he didn't just like the idea and claim he was thinking of it all along? None. Also, blood has been shown on 'Gargoyles' on several occasions before so you can add "they'd never show blood" to "they'd never show Jack the Ripper in a cartoon", "Greg wouldn't touch it because he knows better anyway", "Todd's accidentally let through an idea once or twice so I can flout the rules if I please" and whatever other bizarre assumptions you "think it's safe to say" as gospel truth. Seven people so far have said it breaks the rule. Nobody else thinks it doesn't. It's about as close to the demo "breaking the rule" question as Greg has ever been asked. You tried to flout the system. You got caught. Stop passing the buck and insulting others and we can all put this behind us.
Ed
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 9:07:45 pm EST from 213.187.39.235

Call me a troll all you want, doesn't bother me. I've been posting here for a while, for better or worse, people here know me.

As for the episode, I haven't seen it in many years, but I do remember it. Was there blood? No. You won't see blood often on a show targeted at ages 6 to 11. But, it does show that a show can tackle the subject of Jack the Ripper if the writers are smart and can get around S&P. It's been done, more than once.

And Greg has the comic now, and comics have less S&P involvement than cartoons do. Like Banquo nearly calling Elisa a "dirty monster loving whore" (he got cut off saying whore) would never fly in a cartoon.

And yes, I do agree that "Gargoyles" is a cut above most other cartoons out there, but it's still very hypocritical to belittle someone in this CR for watching a cartoon when this place is dedicated to a cartoon. It's like going to a basketball game, and trashing someone who likes baseball.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 8:33:46 pm EST from 68.202.44.89

See, I told you guys this guy was a troll. He's not gonna ignore anyone.

Greg>I think it's safe to say that Gargoyles is a step up from any other kids' cartoon. Gargoyles is the only cartoon I watch other than South Park, and the only reason I watch it at all is because it speaks to adults sometimes even more than to kids. That's only funny if you didn't think about it very much.

Your point isn't a checkmate, it's just a check. I'll admit, I'm surprised to find that any cartoon would have Jack the Ripper terrorizing a woman. But tell me, how did he terrorize her? Did they show blood? What exactly do you define as terrorizing?
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 8:26:16 pm EST from 128.122.253.228

{Jurgan passes over a bridge and hears snarling from below. Undaunted, he walks past, ignoring the beast.}

By the way, Greg B., how much of that picture was photoshopped? I assume you put in the name "Arlo (unless there's another Arlo)," but were all the others from an actual Colbert episode?

Anyway, back to something interesting:

"If Macbeth went into a wood chipper? Given that we're dealing with magic I'd expect he'd more or less rematerialize whole, like the terminator in T2. It's magic, c'mon."

Nah, I don't buy it. Greg himself has said that neither Macbeth or Demona have ever had anything absolutely fatal, such as decapitation, occur, so it is by definition meaningless to ask. I wrote an essay on this about a year ago- click my name to read it.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
"What? I'm saying I'd rather kiss you than die- it's a compliment!" -Aang, from Avatar: The Last Airbender
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 8:25:28 pm EST from 68.58.196.207

And here's a link:

http://www.tv.com/x-men/descent/episode/56178/summary.html
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 8:22:15 pm EST from 68.202.44.89

Aw, what the hell, this is fun. First off, who said that I still watch Fox Kids cartoons, haven't in many years, but even if I did, the notion that you would critisize someone for watching a cartoon on, of all places, a message board dedicated to a cartoon series is beyond hilarious.

But, I'll answer your question. They did an entire episode set in Victorian England about an ancestor of Charles Xavier chasing Nathaniel Essex, who became Mr. Sinister. At the beginning of the episode, you see Jack terrorizing a woman and then fleeing police.

And, just a quick google search found me these quotes from the episode.

Jack: I got the samples you wanted Dr. Essex.
Sinister: Jack you fool! I told you I wanted this one alive. I gave you life Jack, do you doubt I could undo my own creation?
Jack: "Sorry...Dr. Essex."
Sinister: "Essex is no more! From this day forward you shall address me as Mr. Sinister!"

So, Jack the Ripper. Terrorizing a woman. Based on the dialogue, she was obviously killed. I contradicted your hypothesis.

Check and mate.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"On second thought, maybe wounding him isn't such a bad idea afterall." - Dr. Franklin
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 8:20:27 pm EST from 68.202.44.89

Oh yeah, the assumption thing. Thanks for reminding me, KingCobra. Any assumptions I made were made from logically deducing what is acceptable and not acceptable, based on the site's behavior in the past. Which is the only objective, logical way, to deduce such information, and is used in legal proceedings--which are entirely based on interpreting rules (i.e. laws) consistently.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 8:13:43 pm EST from 128.122.253.196

Greg> I think it's sad that someone who's smart enough to look at my IP address, is stupid enough that they don't see their argument was debunked two hours ago. Or still watches Fox Kids cartoons, for that matter. What episodes had anything to do with Jack the Ripper? Fill me in.

The way you've spoken and posting a dumbass picture, has incontrovertibly proven that you're the ass here, thanks.

By the way, it's perfectly clear that you're the troll. But good, don't respond to me. You've made enough of an idiot out of yourself already.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 8:10:18 pm EST from 128.122.253.228

Greg B.> *pops out of lurker mode*

"Your posts are full of assumptions, and you know the old cliche about those who assume. They make asses out of themselves, as you are doing right now."

*nods* Been there, done that, myself. Most of it to my deepest regrets cause I just got stupid sometimes. But at least I've learned from my mistakes. Just saying.

*returns to his seat to watch from the darkness*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 8:08:51 pm EST from 209.239.132.197

I don't understand why you would be telling me not to go flamewar and not Greg. But you're not adding any fuel.

But I feel that my response to Demonskyre adequately debunked the "copy and paste from the homepage" argument.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 8:06:48 pm EST from 128.122.253.212

I wasn't trying to intimidate you, I was trying to be a little funny... I mean seriously, Bow-Tie pasta is on that list.

But, your behavior no longer makes me feel bad about flaming you. I honestly think it's scary that an NYU student is stupid enough to not see how that was an idea masquerading as a question.

Your posts are full of assumptions, and you know the old cliche about those who assume. They make asses out of themselves, as you are doing right now.

And, just to be an ass, plenty of Saturday morning cartoons have covered Jack the Ripper. For example, the Fox Kids X-Men cartoon made him a henchman of Mr. Sinister in an episode. And don't say "well, that's Fox", because Fox Kids was way more restrictive than Disney when "Gargoyles" was being produced.

Stop trying to justify it. It was a clear rule violator.

Actually... you know what. I think you're just a troll, and I'm not going to bother responding to you any further.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey"
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 8:05:36 pm EST from 68.202.44.89

Arlo> Copied and posted from AG:

" No original ideas masquerading as questions. Asking me what Demona did during World War II is fine. Asking me if Demona tried to assassinate Hitler during World War II is an idea masquerading as a question and is not all right. I'm sure you can all see the distinction."

I don't understand where you're coming from. If you read the above, how could you not see that asking something "Was Demona living a double life as Jack The Ripper" is just as the aforementioned Demona/Hitler question. There are some questions you can ask and some you can't. It sucks sometimes, yes, but it's not worth it to break the rules there.

"How stupid are you that you put up an image with my name on a board and expect it to intimidate me? Or have any effect other than making everyone here think you're stupid? Did you just get out of seventh grade?"

Hey, hey, whoa, relax, man. Let's not go into flamewar territory here.

That's all I have to say until things calm down here. Hopefully I'm not adding fuel to any proverbial fire here.

*suts on the bleachers and shuts up*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 8:02:11 pm EST from 209.239.132.197

Demonskyre>Point taken. But others have asked pretty open questions before and they haven't been deleted. Heck, if the rule was meant to be interpreted that literally, no one would be able to ask Greg about Lexington's being gay, even though it was Greg who revealed that himself. Because "rules are rules," and no wiggle room, right? Wrong. The rule says no submitting ideas in the form of questions, but since Greg can't be sued for stealing an idea that he revealed himself, it's okay to ask him about this. Also, Marvel may have gotten away with a lot, but there's no way Greg could possibly say that Jack was Demona. Just like he's not going to say Lex is gay. Which is probably another reason why it's okay to ask about that. Greg's behavior has made it clear that when the rule is unimportant, he'll ignore it.

Ed>Your point about my years of experience working for Disney is just empty. Again, I don't see any company, Disney, SLG, ANYONE, showing Jack the Ripper. Yes, other companies have done it, but not in children's cartoons. Even if Greg owned the rights to Gargoyles, I think it's safe to say he wouldn't ever touch on it either because he knows better.

Greg>How stupid are you that you put up an image with my name on a board and expect it to intimidate me? Or have any effect other than making everyone here think you're stupid? Did you just get out of seventh grade?

Todd>Don't kid yourself. You've let many an idea disguised as a question get through. Plenty of times, people have said something along the lines of "sorry for making this ambiguous, but I don't want my question deleted again..." and it still got to Greg. You haven't even answered the "already answered questions" that are submitted to Greg. He's always saying "Ask Greg helpers, where are you?" in his responses. Don't act like this is some uber-tight security you've got here. More ideas than not, get through.

Plus I remember thinking when I submitted my question, that I'd seen plenty of other stuff that was way closer to being an idea, than that, get through. If you even deleted it at all, it's because you looked for it now that I made it known in here. Otherwise, it would've gotten through. If you didn't delete it once I made it known in here, then it's still there.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 7:46:58 pm EST from 128.122.253.196

Sorry, Arlo, but rules are rules, and if I find any questions from you (or anybody else) about whether Demona was Jack the Ripper in the "Ask Greg" queue, I'm immmediately deleting them as part of my job. If you've already submitted it (and it would have to have been some time ago, since the queue's been closed for months), I've already deleted it.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 7:30:20 pm EST from 4.245.23.28

Nothing wrong with the idea here, but submitting it to ASK GREG was rule violater. And as Ed and others pointed out, the rules are very clear on this.

Did I go too far with my hyperbole? Yes. But, seriously, in my nearly ten years of posting here, I've never seen someone decide for themselves that an original idea was not a rule violation in ASK GREG.

So, sorry to do this, but Arlo, you sir, are 'On Notice'.

See, that's where you live for now...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gregx/OnNotice-1.jpg

;)

As for Demona being Jack the Ripper. I seriously doubt it. She will kill, but usually if it's part of a plan, otherwise, why draw attention to herself. And why prostitutes? Makes no sense.

And have you ever read any of Jack the Ripper's letters? Nothing Demona would write.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey"
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 7:21:40 pm EST from 68.202.44.89

On the comment room side of things, it is perfectly OK to post an idea in here. You make some interesting points, but I'm not sure if I can see Demona as Jack the Ripper. I don't doubt that Demona's killed more than her share of humans over the years, probably in rather brutal ways at times. But the killings attributed to Jack the Ripper seem a little too calculated for her. I think she'd be more likely to kill anyone who might discover her murdering a victim than to stealthily evade capture. If Demona decided it was human killing time, I imagine her attacks would be far larger and more indiscriminate.

That's not to say there isn't a possibility that, in the Gargoyles universe, Jack the Ripper might have been some other gargoyle, one with a more particular type of victim in mind. Demona certainly doesn't have a monopoly on human hating in the gargoyle race.
Demonskrye
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 7:12:37 pm EST from 209.94.139.18

Arlo: Dude, the rule says, and I quote exactly:

# No original ideas masquerading as questions. Asking me what Demona did during World War II is fine. Asking me if Demona tried to assassinate Hitler during World War II is an idea masquerading as a question and is not all right. I'm sure you can all see the distinction.

But apparently not. Observe: Greg says not a sausage about whether or not the idea "can" be used (under whatever criteria you've yanked from the sky). Also, 'Gargoyles' isn't a cartoon any more, and Greg has *already* stated that eventually he wishes to include 'everything' of this nature into the universe. Jack the Ripper is hardly 'out there' (find me a major US sci-fi franchise which hasn't touched on it) and it's not like murder hasn't been dealt with before when it was an animation. So basically you're either asking because the answer is almost certainly 'no' and so you're wasting everyone's time, or you're asking because you think the answer is 'yes' but don't care that you're exposing Greg to legal issues because you know with your years of experience working for Disney that they wouldn't okay the idea anyway in any format whatsoever. Nice.

I'm not saying this matters because the idea will obviously be deleted anyway, but you're bang to rights on this one.
Ed
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 7:05:33 pm EST from 213.187.39.235

Arlo> Though I do agree that asking someone what's wrong with him and comparing a minor rule breaking incident on a website to bank robbery as Greg B did isn't exactly the best way to make a point, I kind of agree with his rather poorly stated opinion. You are making the assumption that Disney would never allow the concept you suggested to be used in any form the series may take in the future. And even though it may not seem like it, that's a pretty big assumption. Yes, it is with in reason to assume that Disney would not want any kind of reference to Jack the Ripper in an animated television show aimed primarily at kids. But "Gargoyles" isn't a animated TV show any more. It's a comic. And as I recall, the original Marvel comic was able to get away with some things the show wouldn't have. And who knows what could happen in the future. Maybe Disney will just let Greg have free run with the series, or maybe Greg or the fandom or both will raise the money to buy the franchise from them. (Unlikely, I know, but it's just an example.) The rule isn't "no original ideas unless you think they can't possibly be used because Disney would reject them". It's "no new ideas". Think about it. If the rule was left open to anyone's interpretation, someone in the past could have said "Well, Disney will never let Greg discuss homosexuality, so I'll just ask if Lexington is gay". Or "It's been years and "Gargoyles" is obvious never coming back, so I'll just put all my ideas for what happens in the next ten years of "Gargoyles" into a question and see if I'm right". And the Greg's stuck with major parts of his storyline that he can't tell because the fan who asked him about the idea might say "Hey, you got that idea from me and now I'm gonna sue you!" That's why the rule is there and that's why it doesn't leave any wiggle room for people to decide for themselves what it means.

Now let's get back to looking forward to the comic next week.
Demonskrye
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 7:04:07 pm EST from 209.94.139.18

It breaks the rules only when you're stupid enough to be bent on following the rules absolutely and to the letter, even in cases where any rational person would acknowledge that they should not apply and serve no purpose, yes. As Greg and SC are.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 6:52:30 pm EST from 128.122.253.212

De-lurking...

Arlo & Greg - To my eye it clearly breaks the ASK GREG rules -- but there's NO such rule in this room, so I don't get what the uproar's about.
L.T. Williams
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 6:45:03 pm EST from 71.93.81.240

Thank you, Warcrafter. My sentiments exactly.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 6:23:50 pm EST from 128.122.253.228

Greg, what's wrong with YOU? This isn't interpreting a rule any way I want, it's interpreting the rule according to its sole purpose. The rule exists to protect Greg Weissman from being sued, yes. If there's no chance of Greg ever using an idea, then there's no chance of his being sued over it. YOU can't just interpret the rule by the book no matter what, even when irrelevent.

Your bank analogy also is invalid. A bank may or may not use its money someday. It's up to the bank to decide. There's no chance of Greg ever using this idea, ever. Therefore I'm doing him no disservice if I ask him the question. This is a completely different situation. Sorry if you and SC seemed to miss common sense somewhere along the way.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 6:23:02 pm EST from 128.122.253.228

Greg B> "You cannot just interpret the rules anyway you want, like that. What's wrong with you"

I'm starting to think, "what's wrong with YOURSELF!?" Give Arlo a break, man. No need to get all fussy.

And I apologize for talking like that myself. I just hate those kind of responses, unless it was a joke.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 6:22:46 pm EST from 69.231.200.152

SC> THANK YOU!

Arlo> You cannot just interpret the rules anyway you want, like that. What's wrong with you?

That would be like me deciding "well, the bank is not going to use all that money, I'll just go take some. It's not stealing.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey"
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 4:37:44 pm EST from 68.202.44.89

Arlo - "Is not :-/ Well, it's not an idea he can use, anyway. I don't see Disney ever agreeing to let someone incorporate Jack the Ripper into one of their cartoons."

Er... I don't think that's the point, dude. Ideas can't be submitted and (when found) will be deleted to protect Greg W. from being sued. I don't think it matters whether or not Greg W. can use it; fact is, it's an idea, which is a big no-no. o.o;
The Sadistic Cow
It's me and you against the world. So when do we attack?
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 4:33:39 pm EST from 24.150.120.87

Arlo: "Was Demona Jack the Ripper?"

How is that NOT an idea masquerading as a questions? Explain this to me, please. I'd really like to know.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey"
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 4:24:10 pm EST from 68.202.44.89

Gorebash>That's an interesting point about Macbeth trying to get Demona to kill him. But Greg's also said that he thinks Macbeth was hoping to kill her that night in "Sanctuary", and if not, then at least she'd kill him. I always interpreted that to mean that that had been his plan all along. But maybe not. Maybe he was just pushed that far that night because he'd been so humiliated. And he knew he wouldn't want to commit suicide if he let the heat of the battle slip. Which explains why he didn't try to kill Demona when he awoke later that night and she was still unconscious.

But then again, remember "City of Stone, Part 4," when Goliath had to talk him out of dropping Demona onto a jagged rock, thus killing the both of them? I think he was always suicidal. He just needed to be in the battle mode to go through with it.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 3:48:49 pm EST from 65.143.82.84

Asatira>How is that not her style? She killed all those humans for no reason in "City of Stone."

Greg>Is not :-/ Well, it's not an idea he can use, anyway. I don't see Disney ever agreeing to let someone incorporate Jack the Ripper into one of their cartoons.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 3:38:34 pm EST from 65.143.82.84

"Too close an idea"? Arlo, that IS an idea.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey"
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 3:33:03 pm EST from 68.202.44.89

Demona/Jack the Ripper> ehnnn, I don't think so. While brutal, I don't think any of those would have been done by Demona simply because that's not her style. She hates humans, but unless one got in the way of something she's doing or were an active threat, she wouldn't kill them in cold blood. And especially not that frequently. It's too risky, even if there the only a handful of times. Besides, I don't think she'd dirty her hands, so to speak, with prostitutes; they would not be worth it.
Asatira
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 3:29:37 pm EST from 131.204.217.18

On an unrelated note, I found a node in the archives that's really worth pointing out. A post by Cassandra making the suggestion Demona blames Goliath for everything right from the beginning. Copy and pasted below:

"When I first saw the expression on Demona's face when she and Goliath reunited in 1994, I sat up. Yeah, she was glad to see Goliath but she was angry too. My thought first seeing it was "Poor Goliath, nothing good is going to come from this." Looking back now, knowing Demona's history, I have to ask did she read the Magus's version of events from the Grimorum? If the Magus recorded things fairly accurately, then she had to realize that Goliath chose suicide instead of trying to raise the eggs alone. If he had stayed with the eggs, she would have returned with a story Goliath would have swallowed and they could have raised the eggs together. She never would have created the Hunter, she never would have met Macbeth , she never would have made the deal with the Weird Sisters, she would have died centuries ago. And in that moment of reuniting, Demona blames Goliath for all of it. She buries it quickly cause she wants to give him a chance to realize why her way is the only way, but it still there. Wow, all that from one line of dialogue."
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 3:29:07 pm EST from 207.206.239.227

If Macbeth went into a wood chipper? Given that we're dealing with magic I'd expect he'd more or less rematerialize whole, like the terminator in T2. It's magic, c'mon.

Macbeth cannot kill himself because the spell on him and Demona would not allow it. The only way he can die is if Demona kills him (and vice versa).
http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1803

Macbeth trying to trigger a fight to the death with Demona, knowing it would kill him, is what I'm talking about when I speak of him being suicidal. According to this entry in the archives, Macbeth believed doing such a thing was still a sin and wasn't totally up on the idea.
http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=3470

Has Macbeth ever made a direct attempt to kill Demona? Or is Macbeth's plan from the start to confront Demona in order to force her into killing him? Kidnap the gargoyles, make Demona come after him and kill him. And if she kills him, it won't be suicide. It'd only be suicide if he kills her. Which is why you don't see him outright trying to kill her. You see him trying to make Demona attack and kill him.

In the last 900 years he probably has tried to kill himself, dozens of times, by trying to push Demona to kill him. That's why they "talk", she's never going to kill Macbeth because she knows what's going to happen and wants to live.

He's probably devastated when Elisa stops Demona from shooting. It's probably the first time in the past 900 years Demona ever showed any willingness to kill Macbeth.

Suicide by Demona.
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 3:25:46 pm EST from 207.206.239.227

Here's a new Gargoyles topic I thought of that we can talk about. I submitted this question to Ask Greg already, but it will likely be deleted for being too close to an "idea".

Here's the question: Was Demona Jack the Ripper?
I'm going to assume that most of us don't know very much about Jack the Ripper. What I gathered about him comes from an excellently documented website, casebook.org. Here are the facts I've gathered from that site which lead me to believe Demona was Jack the Ripper:

1. Jack the Ripper became so infamous partly because of his ability to escape narrow situations and do seemingly incredible things. At one point, he would have been caught and cornered while mutilating his victim, if a passing police officer had heard something rather than continue to pass by him. This ability to escape narrow situations is strikingly similar to the stealth a gargoyle has.

Jack the Ripper also removed body parts from his victims perfectly in near pitch black conditions. A gargoyle would have the superior eyesight to allow them to see in the dark better than a human, and accomplish this task. Especially if s/he used his or her glowing eyes to do it.

2. Most of Jack the Ripper's victims were women who had the bad luck of being out walking through the streets alone in the middle of the night. Demona would have been up at this time, and could easily have glided down from a building and carried them away or killed them right there.

3. Jack the Ripper killed his victims in England in 1882. England isn't far from Scotland, Demona's homeland, and Demona would have been probably the only gargoyle who was awake and alive during 1882 and hated humans enough to kill them randomly, just as she did in "City of Stone."

4. Jack the Ripper was never caught. His murders stopped for no apparent reason. Some people believe he escaped to New York, and there were indeed some rather similar murders in New York after that time. We don't know when Demona came to New York, but that could have been it.

5. Jack the Ripper slashed the throats of all of his victims, and took control of them easily, without them even being able to shout. Demona would have had the strength to take control of them so easily, and she could have used her claws to slash their throats.

6. Jack the Ripper only struck at night. Demona would have only been awake at night.

Just some thoughts. Sorry for the long post, guys. Let me know what you think.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 3:12:35 pm EST from 65.143.82.84

King Cobra and Samuel>I agree. I'm definitely still buying the comic and looking forward to the new stories. I was just saying that a lot of us seem disappointed with the comic, and I think that might be a possible reason.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 2:58:54 pm EST from 65.143.82.84

Off-topic> I'm reading a 2005 con journal and I'm at the part where it talks about the Banquet from that con, which in turn brought back to mind something that occasionally has been bugging me.

How do I sign up to attend the G2K7 Banquet? Online or at the hotel or what?

Thanks to anyone who can clear this up for me. With G2K7 being my second con, and having not attended at my 1st con (G2K6), I'm not too clear on this.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 12:01:25 pm EST from 209.239.132.192

LORD RA - Unfortunately, there currently are no plans by Disney to release Season Two Volume Two; not enough people bought Season Two Volume One, which discouraged Disney from coming out with any more "Gargoyles" DVDs. Maybe if the DVDs that are out there sell better, it'll be different. (Greg Weisman would add to that "Spread the word!")
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 8:32:35 am EST from 4.244.212.244

Sorry if this is the wrong place to be asking this, I have no idea how to use this site properly, but I was wondering, December 6th and 7th came and past, and no Season Two, Vol.2 have been released yet, not even any news that it will ever be released, what's the last word on this?

Thank you,

Ra
Lord Ra - [nonyabidness at google dot com]
"So Dark the Con of Man"
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 8:05:39 am EST from 24.53.135.220

"...but, hey, it's (going to be) new stories. I'm willing to take whatever medium I can get."

I second that. :)
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodle, anyone?
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 3:13:42 am EST from 205.188.117.68

Arlo> "Plus, even though Greg is a great story teller, I think a comic book can just never replace a TV show."

Maybe not, but, hey, it's (going to be) new stories. I'm willing to take whatever medium I can get.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 1:15:00 am EST from 209.239.132.96

If I'd known that reading the archives was going to kill the conversation in here, I wouldn't have done it :-/

Yeah the art in the comic needs work, but I think the main thing is that we were all hoping to go back to our past on some level, and we're releasing that we're not 14 and seeing Gargoyles for the first time anymore. Plus, even though Greg is a great story teller, I think a comic book can just never replace a TV show.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Fri, Dec 8, 2006 1:10:14 am EST from 65.143.82.201

Issue number 2> It will be interesting to see , due to all the complaints in here about the art and such.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 7, 2006 11:00:30 pm EST from 4.246.250.252

just here to do a countdown

6 days until issue #2 of Gargoyles
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!
posted @ Thu, Dec 7, 2006 9:59:06 pm EST from 69.231.200.152

Oh also, to answer Gorebash's question, yes, suicide is something he only recently decided on. Remember "City of Stone, Part 4" where Macbeth and Demona have thier exchange:
D: "Let's not start that again. You blame me, I blame you. Aren't you tired of talking about it?"
M: "I'm not here to talk."
D: "Then what? You know the rules. Killing me will only bring you your own death."
M: "After this long a lifetime, I have no fear of that. And no desire to live in the kind of world you're creating. Revenge is a dish best eaten cold. And I've waited nine-hundred-and-seventy-five years for this meal."

Clearly, Macbeth has caught Demona several times over the thousand years they've been alive. But apparently, he only tried to get her to apologize or feel some remorse for what she did, or something. The decision to commit suicide is relatively recent. Greg has also confirmed something along these lines in the archives, but he also remained a little ambiguous about it. Probably because he hasn't decided the whole story, or doesn't want to reveal it yet.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Thu, Dec 7, 2006 5:22:51 pm EST from 128.122.253.212

I was going to bring up that point about the question already being submitted, before I saw that Matt brought it up. Macbeth was yelling "No!" to Elisa, as in "No, let her kill me!" Apparently, it's just a scene that Greg thought would be interpreted differently among most of the audience.

Greg has also already answered the question of why Macbeth hasn't tried to kill himself with a violent attack, like cutting off his own head, etc. Macbeth was raised in medieval society, a traditional, Christian, "you go to hell if you're born stillborn and aren't baptised," "you go to hell for committing suicide, way." He;s unable to overcome it. As Greg has said, because of the way Macbeth was raised, he is only borderline suicidal. He's not at a point where he can deliberately try to kill himself in the straightforward sense. He's only at a point where he can look the other way for it if he kills himself by killing his enemy. You guys need to read the archives more.

The character I see myself most like is actually Macbeth. I believe in honor just as he does, but my life has also been hard, and I've been made bitter by it, as he has. Underlying it all is still the basic belief in honor, but I won't say I would never turn my back on it if things got bad enough.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Thu, Dec 7, 2006 4:36:24 pm EST from 128.122.253.229

Here's an interesting scenario. What if Macbeth decided to expierment with death by exposing himself at ground zero to a nuclear test? Considering that Macbeth is suicidal, I can't imagine any possible scenario that could keep him from experimenting with death. It's simply unbelievable to say a suicidal man wouldn't test the limits of his immortality. If the Weird Sisters did interfer like that then that would be a clear violation of Oberon's LAW.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Thu, Dec 7, 2006 4:26:34 pm EST from 69.54.209.92

Vinnie> "Or are you saying that the Weird Sisters cast a spell to stop him from even considering blowing his brains out?"

I would second that theory. Although, who's to say (besides Greg W., of course) that MacBeth hadn't already thought of that (in his shoes, I would have at some point during 900 years of existence), tried it, and failed?

To semi-borrow a quote from a fanfic I'd read once: What if he'd tried a wood-chipper?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Thu, Dec 7, 2006 3:45:09 pm EST from 209.239.132.220

Jurgan-<Because he can't die without killing Demona, and she's pretty tough. I'm sure he's searched for her before.>

I think what Gorebash is getting at is why Macbeth never tried to kill himself before?

And I mean in a creative way like blowing his own head off or burned at the stake. I agree Macbeth is sucidal but Greg Weisman has pointed out that that has not happened to either Demona or Macbeth.

So why hasn't the immortal king tried to off himself? Or are you saying that the Weird Sisters cast a spell to stop him from even considering blowing his brains out?
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Thu, Dec 7, 2006 3:39:59 pm EST from 69.54.209.92

"If he's suicidal why hasn't he pulled it off in the preceding 900 years?"

Because he can't die without killing Demona, and she's pretty tough. I'm sure he's searched for her before.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
"What? I'm saying I'd rather kiss you than die- it's a compliment!" -Aang, from Avatar: The Last Airbender
posted @ Thu, Dec 7, 2006 12:29:26 pm EST from 68.58.196.207

I'm going to have to watch the Macbeth episodes again. The scene in Sanctuary I'd always interpreted as a bluff on Macbeth's part. If he's suicidal why hasn't he pulled it off in the preceding 900 years? Is that something he just suddenly decided on?
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Thu, Dec 7, 2006 11:27:25 am EST from 207.206.239.206

Siren > I have had those dreams occasionally. Not about Gargoyles, but about books that I really loved, and I dreamed there were sequels in the series. Waking up afterwards does stink.
Although one of those dreams did literally come true! The others did not, unfortunately.

I think immortality would be miserable, especially if everybody you loved was still mortal. But even if they weren't, I think after a millennium or so I would get very bored. Even if my family were immortal too, I'd still have to watch other things I love change and go away. I hate change.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Thu, Dec 7, 2006 10:44:34 am EST from 209.162.56.94

Matt, Harvester> Those are very good points that actually make a lot of sense. I'd always thought that MacBeth just had had a last-second change of heart. I'm gonna have to re-analyze the episode at this point. Thanks for giving me an excuse to watch a good episode again. Not that I really needed one. :P

Character Similarity> Like Vid The Kid had mentioned, he sees himself, personality-wise, NOT physical-structure-wise, as Lex. This is because he has a deep intelligence and knowledge of technology, more so then I do. My friends consider me like Brooklyn because I'm a trooper like he is, the kind of guy who'd do something regardless of fear, (A few years I would NOT have even consented to boarding a plane to L.A.! I would not have allowed people I'd barely known last year to bury me in a cramped, claustrophobic box a few inches beneath the earth for the sake of shooting a movie!) and still keep a clear head.

I wouldn't have a few years ago, but I'm a bit braver these days. :)

It's probably also b/c of my past bad luck with women.

However, if you were analyze us by body structure, I'd be more Lex-sized (Not quite, I'm still a little bigger then he is, but barely.) then Brooklyn, unfortunately. Vice versa for Vid The Kid.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Thu, Dec 7, 2006 8:01:34 am EST from 209.239.132.83

Your are forgeting Macbeth`s character here. He was a warrior and a king. I dont think he would ever begged an enemy to forgive his life in such a pathetic way. And of all that enemies his worst.
Demon@
posted @ Thu, Dec 7, 2006 12:03:24 am EST from 200.114.213.102

I asked Greg this very question once:

Question received on Sat, March 03, 2001 05:38:30 PM
matt writes...
in "Sanctuary" when Macbeth and Demona are fighting, Demona gets a hold of a gun and so does Elisa , Macbeth pulls back his jacket to let Demona shoot him and in the last second starts saying "NO!". is this because he realizes he doesn't want Demona to kill him and or is it because he sees that Elisa is about to shoot Demona and thus he won't die?

Greg responds...
He sees Elisa and realizes that her intervention will spoil his suicide attempt.

Response recorded on April 08, 2001
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The city sure is different when it snows..." "Yeah, it's colder." -Lex and Brook, "The Price"
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 11:19:19 pm EST from 70.253.190.43

Kingcobra: I think suicide would be a bigger act of cowardice than dealing with the problem. And anyway, I think the main reason Macbeth shouted "no!" was because he saw that Elisa was about to throw a wrench into things.

Gorebash: Yeah, I thought that Macbeth had always wanted to kill himself. And it was that desire to end his life that drove him to commit acts of dishonor that were unbecoming of him, such as kidnapping innocent gargoyles.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"If every girl I ever dumped put out a hit on me, I'd have to go to Rome and steal the Pope-mobile again." -Upright Citizens Brigade
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 8:44:02 pm EST from 69.175.67.68

The recent replies in "Ask Greg" inspired me to watch the source material for those quotes. It's one of my favorite episodes.

Macbeth > I agree with those who've said he seems suicidal in "City of Stone." So I've always interpreted his desire to draw out Demona (in "Enter Macbeth") in that context - he wishes to confront her and die. Who knows how many loves he'd outlived...and as Hudson wisely observes in "The Price," immortality isn't all it's cracked up to be.

But as KingCobra points out, something seems to have changed by "Sanctuary" - maybe it's the realization that he can love someone (as he and Goliath talk about at the end of the episode).

Similarity to characters > Odd as it may sound, I often relate most closely to Broadway. Not because of his famous love of food, but because he seems so loyal and dedicated to his friends. I admire that. He demonstrates it in a number of episodes, and even in "Future Tense" he talks about how he'd never given up or lost faith that Goliath would return. (Sure that's Puck's nightmare rather than reality, but it seems to me he tapped something in Broadway's personality - and it seemed believable both to Goliath and the audience).

I can also relate to Angela's sense of adventure and desire to see new things, as evidenced by her joining the others on the World Tour.
Abby
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 6:32:03 pm EST from 24.118.226.247

I think Macbeth wants death. To join his wife and son. Immortality is often seen as such a good thing. And its not. To watch those die around you. To see them suffer. I mean, what DID he have to live for? A great big mansion. No family. It seems, no friends. I think King Arthur was his saving grace. He is able to recapture what he lost centuries ago...a reason to exist. And a good reason. To work alongside the greatest king of all time. It is the highest honor. I do wonder if he'll bury the hatchet with Demona ever (not to be taken literally). At least for sometime. But he is still alive for Gargoyles 2198. I always hoped he found true love again, but still with the understanding, his heart would break again to watch that person die. (Unless he finds love in one of Oberon's Children)
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 5:16:37 pm EST from 72.189.220.217

Siren> Been there myself.

MacBeth> I can see him going to any lengths to accomplish what he THINKS he wants, an end to his immortal existence, but am I the only one who noticed that in "Sanctuary" when Demona was just about to finish him, he was open to it and then suddenly was begging "no... No!"

This leads me to think that maybe he doesn't want to die after all, he just doesn't completely know it yet. Though this tends to make him look a little cowardly, perhaps there's something he's looking forward to.

Or, perhaps, like I said already, on some level, he's subconsciously relishing his immortality and just is not truly ready to go just yet.

I'm interested as to when/how/if the comic will take this further.

There's my 2 cents.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 3:57:15 pm EST from 209.239.132.189

I'd have to agree Macbeth only wanted death at this point and yes I'd have to say he was extremely frustrated when he found out the truth about Demona's relationship to the clan.

I'd also have to say that Thailog is greed.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 3:54:42 pm EST from 69.54.209.57

Maybe you're seeing something I'm not, but after seeing City of Stone I thought it was pretty clear that, at that point, Macbeth was suicidal and wanted to kill Demona.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 3:16:14 pm EST from 68.58.219.175

What do you think Macbeth wanted of Demona? Why go through all those troubles just to get to her? To fight her? Kill her? I don't think Macbeth was looking to die. I don't think Demona would be either. So perhaps Macbeth was after something else. Maybe he wanted to kidnap her clan to use as leverage against her. Leverage for what, exactly, is the question.

Or did he really not know where she was and wanted to draw her out? Still.. why draw her out for no reason? What's he after?
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 2:19:30 pm EST from 207.206.246.236

The words queen or king to a gargoyle means nothing. It was Macbeth´s human way of calling Demona leader of the gargoyles, as he knew her 900 years ago.
Demon@
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 1:50:09 pm EST from 200.114.213.102

Yeah, during Demona and Macbeth's aliance, I am sure he and her had some talks about their pasts. And I'm sure she mentioned how the HUMANS betrayed her and killed her clan. :P She likely told him it was the Castle Wyvern Clan. He probably knew that castle, probably heard legends of the gargoyles for years. Centuries later, I'm sure he was reading the paper to see some high-end American business man bought the castle and moved it to NY. He figured that was his only connection to Demona to find her, and followed suit.
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 1:48:30 pm EST from 72.189.220.217

It's funny, my dream about the Gargoyles comic involved it not selling well because of all the delays, and having nothing to with "The Journey," and all the fans being pissed over the poor sales. Probably we're all just a little anxious about the comic book coming out, given all the delays we've had so far.

I find it hard to believe Macbeth didn't know Demona was part of Goliath & co.'s clan. He seemed pretty sure that they would be able to lead him to Demona, and he went through a lot of trouble to make everything happen. I think he had more than just "a hunch." I imagine he at least knew that she had been part of their clan and that the entire clan had been put under the sleep spell by humans. Of course, Demona clearly lied about a lot, even telling him that she was their queen.

That's what probably makes the irony all the greater for Macbeth when Goliath laughs and says "Then you are a fool! She is our enemy...." All this time, Macbeth had been believing what Demona had told him about the clan, he went through a lot of trouble to capture all of them and get to her. And now, he finds that she betrayed them even before she betrayed him. I can just see him screaming inside with frustration.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 1:11:29 pm EST from 65.143.83.154

Ever have one of those realistic dreams where you get something you really want and it seems so real. And you wake up and realize, you don't have it...I did that last night with the Gargoyles comic. I was at a store in the mall and saw it laying in a pile of comics and was so happy. I purchased it and walked out the door, woke up and realized....I didn't even dream of reading it!
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 12:26:43 pm EST from 72.189.220.217

All he wanted was a way to get in touch with Demona. it seems likely to me that he was eavesdropping on the conversation between Owen and Xanatos and heard that the relationship between X and the gargoyles wasn't all nice and X was looking to get rid of them he probably adapted to the situation. If Owen and X had said other things, Macbeth would've altered his approach to Xanatos.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The city sure is different when it snows..." "Yeah, it's colder." -Lex and Brook, "The Price"
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 12:14:06 pm EST from 70.253.190.43

Brooke: comic should be out next week.

dph: I figure Macbeth was waiting for the right opportunity. The gargoyles weren't "pests" to Xanatos when he first brought the castle over and "woke" them. But they got to be too much of a problem and that's when Macbeth could finally step in.

It's not like Macbeth could ask Xanatos to kidnap/remove the gargoyles if he (Xanatos) still found them useful.
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 9:50:56 am EST from 207.206.246.236

Harvester of Eyes: Yes, so probably he didnt know that Xanatos and Demona were working together.
Demon@
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 9:27:55 am EST from 200.114.213.102

Yeah, but who even knows what Macbeth's idea about the Castle and the Clan was. If he thought Demona was their Queen, who knows what else he thought. I have doubts that Demona told him that much about what happened at Wyvern, I doubt that Macbeth realizes that she was actually from the Wyvern Clan. More likely he simply saw that Xanatos had an issue with some Scottish gargoyles from 1000 years ago and figured they had a connection to Demona.
Matt - [O'Fallon, Missouri, USA]
"The city sure is different when it snows..." "Yeah, it's colder." -Lex and Brook, "The Price"
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 8:33:06 am EST from 70.245.245.9

Demon@: I think Macbeth just didn't know that Demona had become the clan's enemy. Also, Xanatos wasn't thrilled with the idea of destroying the gargoyles. He even said that it seemed like a waste to him.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"If every girl I ever dumped put out a hit on me, I'd have to go to Rome and steal the Pope-mobile again." -Upright Citizens Brigade
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 7:02:42 am EST from 69.175.67.68

Gorebash - My question was why Macbeth didn't contact Xanatos *sooner*. It's a given that Macbeth knew about the castle being moved ahead of time. Just think about the permits that Xanatos would have to get just to put the castle above the clouds and you realize that it was no secret that he was moving the castle.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 3:13:13 am EST from 71.30.132.131

Brooke, it's coming out next Wednesday
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey"
posted @ Wed, Dec 6, 2006 12:10:04 am EST from 68.202.44.89

Naaa, i dont think Macbeth knew about Xanatos and Demona working together. He had Demona as "the queen of the gargoyles" If Xanatos and Demona were a team why would Xanatos complained about the gargoyles at all.
Probably Macbeth counted Demona as part of the "pest" Xanatos had in his castle.
Demon@
posted @ Tue, Dec 5, 2006 11:39:33 pm EST from 200.114.213.102

what's the deal with the comic? Last I heard issue 2 was supposed to come out in Nov...no show...what gives? I was soo excited when the first one came out I couldn't wait for the second (even though I've seen the episode both of these issues came from - have to get through 1 and 2 before we get to the good stuff: issue 3!!)
Brooke
-Brooke
posted @ Tue, Dec 5, 2006 11:38:12 pm EST from 24.252.27.218

hmm Did Macbeth know about Demona and Xanatos working together? That's interesting, because it seems he must have at least known there was some connection, from the way he expected her to come to the rescue when he captured Goliath & co. But then, given how determined he was, why didn't he keep trying new plans with Xanatos, or keep watching the building until he saw her, or something, until he finally found her? Maybe because he didn't want Demona to know he was on her trail until he was ready?
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Tue, Dec 5, 2006 7:25:58 pm EST from 65.143.85.107

Macbeth has been around a long time. Certainly long enough to establish more than a few connections. You also might consider that he employs grunts (ie Banquo & Fleance) and has probably used a few prison guards from time to time - figure they've got training, know how to handle themselves, and getting paid for crap by the government could be easily persuaded to take on an extra job of questionable morality.

I'm sure Demona told him about the clan's curse when they were working together after he became king. And of course something like Xanatos moving a castle on top of a skyscraper is going to make headlines, so I'm sure everyone in Manhattan, including Macbeth, would know about it.

And if Macbeth had been tracking Demona all these years I'm sure he'd be aware that she and Xanatos were working together at that point.

It really doesn't require any big leaps of faith or stretching the story to make that situation work.
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Tue, Dec 5, 2006 1:46:10 pm EST from 207.206.246.251

Yeah given what we know about Macbeth now, I always got the idea that Demona had told him some version of the story in all those years while they were close friends. Although who's to say that at that point in time, Demona knew that the spell would break when the castle rose above the clouds? Greg has already said that she and Xanatos figured it out together in the 20th century, long after Macbeth and Demona became enemies.

But when Macbeth heard that Demona's old castle was being put on top of a building, he probably did some research or at least got a strong hunch or watched it every night to see if Gargoyles were taking off, or something.

The way Macbeth enters dressed as a prison guard certainly makes it seem as though he's powerful and resourceful. But given how Greg likes to explain odd things by saying we simply didn't see everything that happened, I would guess that Macbeth probably just bribed a prison guard to let him sneak in and put on his clothes for a few minutes, or something.
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Tue, Dec 5, 2006 1:23:29 pm EST from 65.143.83.252

Well i think Macbeth already knew about the castle been trasported. Probably everyone knew about that. An important person doesnt trasport a building from one point of the world to the other every day. Reporters would go wild
Demon@
posted @ Tue, Dec 5, 2006 12:46:09 pm EST from 200.114.213.102

I just thought of an interesting question.

Why did Macbeth 1st contact David Xanatos *when* he did? For example, was Macbeth aware of Castle Wyvrn being transported to Manhattan when it was being transported? Just how resourcefull is Macbeth in being able to talk to Xanatos while in prison?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Dec 5, 2006 12:15:56 pm EST from 161.31.67.158

Goliath's unwillingness to move the clan from the castle seems to hint at an underlying streak of pride. Eventually he acknowledges he's wrong, but he was almost forced into accepting it, so I'm not sure you could argue that his doing so shows he isn't prideful.

I think "Eye of the Storm" is where you see this streak of pride magnified and made more obvious. He's "the man" and can't be wrong. He's the protector. He's not listening to anyone but himself.

There's also the thread of the "gargoyle way" that Goliath likes to preach; such as that whole paternity of Angela business. This is what gargoyles are, this is what they do, this is how they act, etc..

I also might make the case that he sticks by the idea that Demona still has some good or can be saved is less his love/devotion to her and more his belief that one of his clan (if not his race) couldn't be that evil.

Am I confusing stubborness for pride or is his stubborness a result of his pride?
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Tue, Dec 5, 2006 12:01:45 pm EST from 207.206.246.251

And why is Goliath pride?
Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon dot com]
GargoylesDVD.com
posted @ Tue, Dec 5, 2006 10:59:21 am EST from 66.31.44.143

Lex is envious about humans and, more specifically, human technology. It starts off with "Vinnie" riding his bike early in season 1 (Awakenings, wasn't it?) and keeps on building.

Brooklyn is lust because he comes off in the show wanting more than the rest. I always felt he was trying to force Maggie into love, then he does the same thing with Angela. When it doesn't happen he's crushed because he wanted it more than anything else while the other(s) (Really only Lex when it comes to Angela) aren't as broken up on things. (Granted Lex is gay...)

Xanatos is definately greed. He wants to live forever. I can't think of anything more greedy than that.
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Tue, Dec 5, 2006 8:16:22 am EST from 207.206.247.240

Just incase anyone was wondering, Ryan is that person I was talking about. :)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!
posted @ Tue, Dec 5, 2006 1:34:39 am EST from 69.231.222.141

KingCobra, who began this topic of our similarity to various characters, neglected to say which character he felt similar to. Well, I can tell you, it's Brooklyn. And I would be Lexington. Probably. (That makes more sense than the other way around, unless you consider our physical sizes...)
Vid the Kid
Does this font make me look fat?
posted @ Tue, Dec 5, 2006 12:41:58 am EST from 209.239.132.171

RANDOM OFF TOPIC:
i havent watched gargoyles in years and when i did watch it it was on an black and white 8 inch tv -sigh- i miss that show
Ryan - [billiejoe90 at sbcglobal dot net]
doodoodoodoodoodoo AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!! ^.^
posted @ Tue, Dec 5, 2006 12:31:41 am EST from 75.22.63.140

Well, here's something off topic. I just may of gotten someone I know more interest into Gargoyles and she has many, MANY friends into this kind of stuff. Then her friends may tell more people, then they will tell others, it just goes on. Ill see if it goes anywhere though.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 11:50:20 pm EST from 69.231.218.33

I would would say Iago is the envy. As for the other they fit right in.
Demon@
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 11:21:26 pm EST from 200.114.213.102

Character similarity? Hm, I think I'm a mix of Maggie - hence the avatar - because of the desire for a normal life (though normality really does have disadvantages), Broadway because of my supreme love of food and cooking (well, baking for me actually), the Magus because I can't approach those I care for openly without feeling unworthy, and Princess Catherin for two reasons - 1) My pride tends to bite me in the rear on things I don't bother to learn about first, and 2) for the way she feels about her 'eggs'. My youngin's are my life and soul now. I would face Oberon and Titania themselves before letting harm come to them.

Other than that, everyone rest well. G'night.
Renee
Sanity is just a delusion.
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 11:03:34 pm EST from 24.181.243.222

Ah! Yeah, I sorta got the answering pattern. I'm sure Greg takes some enjoyment in reading them, but they are pretty long. And, he's mentioned it earlier in some of the recent responses, can't say where, but the journals are also a sign to the suits of fan support. I don't mind the brief responses, but I'm glad he's at least glossing over them.

Character similar> I'd say I'm most like Elisa. I'm not particularly extreme emotionally, will try to see the other side of things, but can be incredibly stubborn if I think I'm right.
And Talon is most definately wrath. That's gotten him into more trouble than I think he'd like to admit.
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 10:15:12 pm EST from 68.190.60.123

haha Oh I get it. A good way to skip through those journals so he can answer the questions.

What was the purpose of his asking people to post their con journals in the first place? I always just found them annoying. Was it to create a tight-knitted feel among the Gargoyles community, or get more people to attend the Gatherings or something?
Arlo
"Yes, I am male. No, I won't have sex with you."
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 10:00:12 pm EST from 65.141.251.153

HAHA! Macbeth as a robot...Was Greg feeling a bit unimaginative.....or perhaps...too imaginative? ;)
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 9:44:32 pm EST from 72.189.220.217

Vaevictis Asmadi - <Yeah, he posted the same really short response twice.> That's not it. His latest responses . . they are echoes from some place else. I don't want to spoil it for those who don't recognize the pattern.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 7:52:48 pm EST from 71.30.132.131

We'll just have to see if an enraged Goliath smashes Greg open and reveals that he's a robot befor ethe con journals end.
Demonskrye
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 7:49:41 pm EST from 209.94.139.18

We'll just have to see if an enraged Goliath smashes Greg open and reveals that he's a robot befor ethe con journals end.
Demonskrye
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 7:49:40 pm EST from 209.94.139.18

Yeah, he posted the same really short response twice.

Sorry to all you guys who posted Con journals, but I just want him to get back to the questions.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 7:04:41 pm EST from 209.162.56.94

Anybody catch the pattern in Greg Weisman's latest responses?

I do.

I have a little trouble with connecting Xanatos to greed, unless you count the line from Vows "I wanted it so I took it", but I'm more inclined to connect Xanatos to Gluttony on this basis: any form of thoughtless excess. Connecting Broadway to Gluttony is too obvious. Who's to say that Hudon hasn't earned the right to rest/enjoy from time to time?

I'm more inclined to connect Fox to greed. Where does Elisa fall? I'm hard-pressed to assign her to any of them, but I'd choose envy, that is envious of a normal life. I'd also assign Brooklyn and Talon to Wrath, Claw to Sloth, Maggie to Envy (wanting to be human again), Fang to Greed/Pride. I'd associate Preston Vogel with Sloth.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 5:19:33 pm EST from 161.31.67.118

GORE> While I agree with you completely, on six of the gargs you just listed, I think I agree on them all, but what exactly is Lexington envious about?
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 4:58:04 pm EST from 198.53.28.99

Apply the seven deadly sins to the main characters of the show. One sin per character, must apply all sins.

Goliath -> Pride
Brooklyn -> Lust
Broadway -> Gluttony
Lexington -> Envy
Hudson -> Sloth
Demona -> Wrath
Xanatos -> Greed

Angela, Elisa, and Bronx? Do you include Fox?

Anyways, I thought it'd be an interesting exercise in seeing how people perceive the characters. To me these fit perfectly with the character. The only rough spot for me was trying to figure out what Angela and Elisa might be if we went beyond 7 characters. Elisa would probably be pride and Angela (not so easy to figure out) but I might go with Envy or Greed.

Thoughts?

And Dec. 13th? Can't wait, Gargoyles #2 finally here!!
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 4:04:04 pm EST from 207.206.239.235

I'd say I'm a mix between Vinnie and Broadway. Sometimes I feel the need for revenge, like Vinnie, but don't want to really hurt anyone. I like to enjoy eating and reading like Broadway does as well.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 2:04:33 pm EST from 69.54.209.86

I think personality-wise I'm kinda a mix between Elisa and Rory (from Hound of Ulster).
Matt
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 12:56:33 pm EST from 24.207.163.239

KingCobra_582 well, for me it would be Demona, call me crazy, but i´ve really felt the need to kill sometimes...i still do. And you know why? Because no one understand me, im always been left alone because of who i am and what i say. My words dont hurt the others. It has always been like that since i was a kid. Iam alone now too, and sometimes it makes you feel so bad that you want to kill yourself or someone else by the way.
My god, and im only 19, i dont want to think what it would be to be alone 1000 years gee...
Demon@
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 11:12:14 am EST from 200.114.213.102

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Skadi - [Skadi at Acheronian-Clan dot de]
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 8:14:14 am EST from 84.179.103.169

Arlo from 'last week'> Oh, sorry. That's my bad.

I have a interesting, if somewhat potentially lame, topic. My friends were talking about what Gargoyles they would identify with, personality-wise (I was labeled as the "Brooklyn" of the group) and I started wondering.

If you guys could see yourself identifying with any of the characters, who would it be and why?

Yes, I am aware this is probably a stupid topic, but I want to help things going in the room this week and this was the best I could come up with, off the top of my head.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 7:36:31 am EST from 209.239.132.109

**Bounds in after Chameleongirl**

TEN!
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 2:19:27 am EST from 76.168.61.199

Ninth!
Chameleongirl
Chameleon may changer her spots, but she refuses to do plaid.
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 2:17:59 am EST from 202.87.162.31

I'm a gnerd and I don't care.....unless somebody I know is watching me. XD
This doesn't count as ninth. I just wanted to point it out.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 1:33:39 am EST from 69.231.195.216

All right, 8th. G'night folks.
Renee
Sanity is just a delusion.
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 1:11:40 am EST from 24.181.243.222

7th!!
Simply because D&D gaming went longer than expected. Yes, my geekness is clearly showing now. :P
Renee
Sanity is just a delusion.
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 1:10:58 am EST from 24.181.243.222

Seventh!!!
Battle Beast
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 1:10:07 am EST from 198.53.28.99

6th!!
The Sadistic Cow
It's me and you against the world. So when do we attack?
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 12:25:54 am EST from 24.150.120.87

Fifth!
Kaylle
GargoylesDVD.com
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 12:22:44 am EST from 66.31.44.143

Fourth. :)
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 12:13:05 am EST from 152.163.100.14

third, oh well
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 12:07:24 am EST from 69.231.195.216

Second!
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 12:04:24 am EST from 66.74.223.92

1
yay!
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Mon, Dec 4, 2006 12:02:58 am EST from 206.57.91.97