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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending March 19, 2007

Index : Hide Images

I . . . am . . . STUNNED.

Issue #4 is absolutely beautiful.

Issue #5 . . . Oh my Lord . . .

Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts -- Willy Wonka

HO.......LY........CRAP. I mean seriously, I never thought they could get away with a cover like that.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!........oh, and my new gamertag on xbox live for 360 is "I am Goliath"

Cover #5.....Daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!
Siren

Wow. The cover of Number Five looks great.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"If I must beat this lesson into you, then so be it. It's for your own good!" -Demona ("Vows")

Number 4 is gorgeous... and Number 5... Holy $hit! Now I doubt they could do that on a cartoon. Thats one good thing about the comics... damn. Wow.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

With special thanks to Stephanie Lostimolo, here is the finished cover for issue four:

http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Clan_Building_Chapter_Four:_Masque

And the cover for issue five:

http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Clan_Building_Chapter_Five:_Bash

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison

I also think more people should look back in slightly older comments to revive the chat now and then. I know I've got a few ideas/comments/questions ignored here and got frustrated about it, but quickly get over it. But I think when it gets quiet, people ought to re-read what others say, they might have missed something.

I don't see a problem with someone posting clips or maybe one episode of the series, but offering the whole package? That's just getting irrespondsible. And if someone uploads one episode, make it a good one. For instance, I don't think uploading The Mirror would be a good idea....I know, its the BEST episode for many...but is it the BEST episode for a NEWLY hatched fan???? Uploading Awakenings or the beginning of the Avalon saga is a far better introduction to the series. Then when people beg for more, you tell them to buy the DVD. I don't find them overpriced at all. Actually pretty cheap compared to other sets. And very affordable. I'm a single mom and I can afford a few copies, I am sure a 15 year old can too. Either by earning money with chores or asking for it as a gift for good grades, holiday, etc.

Siren

Patrick> I have pretty much always been against illegal downloading. I basicly only download music if I can't find the CD anywhere or it's something that just plain isn't available on a CD. Aside from that I might download fansubs of anime until it has an official release here. I always support the official releases of stuff I like.

Demonskrye> With some of the people, I don't think it's that they can't put two and two together. It's that they just don't care. There are too many people that think they deserve things for free. They'll argue it any way they can that makese them feel ok about it. Whether it be "not having enough money" or trying to claim that DVDs are overpriced. Gargoyles is the only series I can think of that has had DVDs halt because of this, but I remember something else that can make a good comparison. Anyone into gaming probably remembers the Sega Dreamcast. A large part of the systems downfall is that they didn't program anything into it to prevent people from using burnt games. So a large number of Dreamcast owners were downloading games and burning them instead of buying them.

Some people need to understand that if you can't afford it, you don't need it. I've got a crappy job and I manage to afford stuff that I really want, I get sick of hearing some people's excuses.

Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N

Harvester> "Hey, just out of curiosity: who was it that added Coldstone to the uncyclopedia entry? If it was someone from Station 8, don't be shy. Want to make sure I'm giving credit where it's due."

That would be me. I was going to be anonymous about it, but screw it.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.

Ozzie Arcane> Very true, but getting the more egregious episode posters off of YouTube does help somewhat. All of this free offering of episodes available on DVD, whether it's easy to save and rewatch or not, just feeds people's sense that they're entitled to view a show for free without having to buy anything. it's sad that people can't seem to make the connection between their obtaining shows illegaly and those same shows not getting further DVD sets or more content or whatever. There are a lot of issues that feed into this problem, but shutting down any free source of "Gargoyles" episodes is helpful.

A Suggestion> Perhaps it my help conversation in the comment room if, instead of commenting on it or responding when the room gets quiet or someone posts an unhelpful or uninteresting post, we made an effort to go back and read some of the previous legitimate posts and respond to them?

Demonskrye

Y'know, it's a pity that Arlo is insane because for a little while s/he would make some interesting conversation. :( Alas.

Anyhow. I'm very much excited for number three to hit stores; I'm even more excited to see Bad Guys.

As far as spreading Gargoyles at Towson (my college), I've gotten people to remember the show and watch MY DVDs, but no one yet is hopping to buy the DVDs. I may have turned someone onto the comics, though. :)

*is hyper because he's talking about gargoyles*

*...and he just ate ice cream*

Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
"What sorcery is this?!"

I hope everyone who's railing against Youtube postings and torrents of "Gargoyles" episodes abides by the same set of ethics when it comes to music file sharing. Otherwise we're just a bunch of hypocrites.

96 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"Yo, ho, ho, ho, the pirate's life for me." - overheard at Disneyland

I'm sure people episodes on Youtube isn't helping, but I don't think that's really the source of the problem. The main problem I think is probably torrents of the whole series. I don't think most people know how to save a video permenantly from Youtube.

I remember around when Season 2 volume 1 came out this one site made me so mad. Whenever someone would start talking about Gargoyles they'd say how great it was, then rather then encourage people to buy the DVDs, they'd post a link to a torrent of the whole series. No one usually mentioned the DVDs unless it was me. The most annoying thing was that posting links to illegal downloads was against the rules but the moderators in that section never pay attention to to what's going on.

Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard from Captain N

Arlo: hahaha man you need friends
Demon@
"Look Raist bunnies!!

Hey, just out of curiosity: who was it that added Coldstone to the uncyclopedia entry? If it was someone from Station 8, don't be shy. Want to make sure I'm giving credit where it's due.

And also to give that person a small suggestion. When dealing with small numbers, it looks prettier when they're written out ("two" as opposed to "2"). Least I think it looks better.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"If I must beat this lesson into you, then so be it. It's for your own good!" -Demona ("Vows")

Well, a few hours ago, I went and flagger all her videos. So blame me :P
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison

I warned her it would eventually happen. Its one thing to post a couple of clips, another to post entire episodes and then take requests for even more. That's why we are having trouble seeing Part 2 of Season 2 make it to DVD.
Siren

Siren> according to that youtube user's link, the account has been suspended. So I guess we wont have to deal with that anymore.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!........oh, and my new gamertag on xbox live for 360 is "I am Goliath"

If only farewell speaches really indicated a final farewell. No such luck with Arlo...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Greg B>> So I take it Guzman didn't get any sample copies on her desk, then.
Alex Garg

Harvester> Eh, don't worry about it. I was kind of in a foul mood yesterday anyways.

Arlo> Jeez, grow up already, you troll.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.

Oh, Arlo, you didn't touch the stuff in the baggie that you found in your mom's panty drawer, did you? Crack is bad for you, man. If you want a REAL high, you should try drinking some bargain bleach. It's inexpensive, and the high lasts for hours.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"If I must beat this lesson into you, then so be it. It's for your own good!" -Demona ("Vows")

BATTLE BEAST> March 28th.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison

I've been biting my tongue at this guy, but really... people, just ignore him! if you see that combo of color/image, ignor it! don't read it!

Anyway, does anyone have a firm street date on #3?

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Arlo, act your age, not your dick size. #3 is out soon and Greg is already working on #7...Plus Bad Guys spin off you moron. At least if you want to look like a SMARTass, then get some intelligence.
Siren

So you guys have gone and gotten the Gargoyles comic delayed once again.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Go back to the Comment Room Archives from two months ago where I gave my farewell speech and look at the part where I said "Gargoyles won't survive in any shape or form--comic book or otherwise--as long as the majority of its fans continue to behave like this."

OWNED ONCE AGAIN

THAT'S RIGHT PEOPLE. I WAS RIGHT. YOU WERE WRONG. YOU'RE THE DEATH OF GARGOYLES. ARLO IS YOUR MASTER ONCE MORE. YOU'RE HIS BITCH

GET USED TO IT

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

DPH: Nah, let's let Germany feel special. ( ;

KingCobra: I'm sorry if it did that. I actually didn't write it.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
Klingon: "I do not deserve to live." Kirk: "Fine, I'll kill you later."

dph> Disney certainly goes on there and has YT remove videos. But not so much the Gargoyles. Also they don't know who reports them, only YT does. This person not only uploads the episodes, they take requests for episodes: http://youtube.com/gargoylefansunite

But she says she uploads them to make new fans. Yeah, new fans who rather watch it for free then buy the dvds.

Siren

Siren - <I don't report them because they might just see my videos and delete me too.> Or worse, the people who get their videos removed decide to report you. I just reported over a dozen myself. It seems like we need a "youtube patrol" to keep gargoyles episodes off of youtube. I'm concerned that the video uploaders are getting smart. A search for "Gargoyle episodes" on youtube turned up only the German ones, not any English ones.

Is it worth the risk to get Disney to move against youtube?

dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Siren> having way too much fun with your Teen Titans AMVs, especially "TT Musical." I'll go through more of them later. Man, you're way too productive.
Asatira

Howdy all, happy Patty's day.
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
"What sorcery is this?!"

I've been watching "Hellboy: Blood and Iron" on Toonami, and I can't help but notice the uncanny resemblance of a businessman named Oliver Trumble to David Xanatos. The only differences are the ponytail and the voice, but other than that, Oliver Trumble is identical to David Xanatos. Was Greg Weisman involved in this movie?
Gantros

Nikki, thanks :D The puppy wasn't mine actually, watching it for a friend. She has it back.

BattleBeast, all my videos are here: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=sirengarg The fastest way to weed out all the Last Unicorn videos is to do a YouTube search with "sirengarg last unicorn" :)

dph, it does help. I don't report them because they might just see my videos and delete me too. They will delete the videos and/or ban the YouTuber posting them. Not sure why they sometimes do a full ban and sometimes they don't. I guess it depends on how many they have, but maybe not.

Siren

Happy St. Me day! ;)

Little known fact: St. Patrick didn't really drive the snakes out of Ireland. He was totally wasted, so being a responsible sort, he called them all a cab.

97 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"They're always after me lucky charms." - Patty O'Brien, "Austin Powers"

Happy St. Patrick's Day, everybody!

Normally today I'd watch my tape of "The Hound of Ulster" as a means of celebrating, but I've gotten too accustomed to DVDs by now to switch back to videotapes. (All the more reason to hope that Disney finally decides that there'd be some profit in coming out with the Season Two Part Two DVD.)

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Siren - does it do any good to report people for copyright abuse on youtube? Next to your listings are episodes of gargoyles?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

"I have an idea. We could add more avatar images to the comment room. There seem to be some characters that don't have avatars that we could add, like Oberon, and the Guatemalan and Japanese gargoyles. Also, Othello doesn't have his own picture."

That reminds me -- I should really start considering a different Avatar (still feeling guilty for hijacking Blaise's old boy). Maybe I'll experiment with some of them next week . . . .

Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts -- Willy Wonka

HAPPY ST. PATRICKS DAY, EVERYONE!

Siren> Is there somewhere to see your Last Unicorn Video???

Did you get the new DVD? They did a good job of it, I think.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

That Truthiness Wiki is funny!

If everyone is still wondering what to do this week, I have an idea. We could add more avatar images to the comment room. There seem to be some characters that don't have avatars that we could add, like Oberon, and the Guatemalan and Japanese gargoyles. Also, Othello doesn't have his own picture.

Just a random thought, though.

Vaevictis Asmadi

It really is quiet... everyone have a good St. Patty's Day!!!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Hi. Siren, just checked out your new video. Really enjoyed it, I enjoy them all actually. Thought the one to the Chicago musical was hilarious. Hope you've got to grips with your puppy.
Also on youtube, I watched the gargoyles radio play at the 2006 gathering. Fab job guys!
Anyway, hopa all are safe and well.

xxx

Nikki
From Britain, with love x

Warcraft: hehehe yeah, after i posted here i saw greg´s name on it. :P well for those who has forgotten about it.
HoE: that was funny. XD

Demon@

Harvester> Slightly amusing site, that.

Though I must say that it brings up bad memories of my father from my childhood.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.

Forgive the double post, but in the spirit of the holiday:

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Alcoholics_Anonymous

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Come with me to the winged isle, northern father's western child, where the dance of ages is playing still. Through far marshes of acres wild." -Ian Anderson ("Acres Wild")

Sure is quiet around here. Guess people are starting early.

*hic* 'Scuse me.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Come with me to the winged isle, northern father's western child, where the dance of ages is playing still. Through far marshes of acres wild." -Ian Anderson ("Acres Wild")

Demon@> If I recall, it was Greg B. who did that. I still laugh at it every time i see it XD
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!........oh, and my new gamertag on xbox live for 360 is "I am Goliath"

New video, but its half-crap. Its one of my "I'm bored" videos. Nothing stellar, but try and enjoy anyways

The video is about Fox and features the episode "Eye Of the Beholder" exclusivly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P67NM-iQwEs

Siren - [New Goliath/Demona Music Video! Click my name!]

Would you take a look at these? www.wikiality.com/Demona XD!!!
Demon@

I wonder if Demona is sighing to herself, "If only Thailog had been programmed with *my* ideals instead of Xanatos'!
Vaevictis Asmadi

Patrick: Too bad they weren't inside a computer. Then it would only have been eight years. Unless I'm messing up the binary translation.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"And April is summer-bound, and February's blue. And no one stops to see the colors." -Ian Anderson ("March the Mad Scientist")

Why 1,000 years? It's a nice round number, and it sounds good when Keith says it. "Frozen in stone by a magic spell for nine hundred ninety-nine years" wouldn't quite seem the same.

98 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]
"I may be numberless, I may be innocent. I may know many things, I may be ignortant..." - Sting, "A Thousand Years"

Matt: Yeah, the sense I got from Demona's conversation with Goliath, right before he went to see Elisa, is that Demona and her vendetta were a package: "love me, hate all humans." The two could not be exclusive of one another. But I also got the sense that when she spoke with him later, right before she tried to shoot him, she was almost pleading with him.

Unless her saying "you trusted me once. You LOVED me once" were just pretty words to achieve an end. Which also wouldn't surprise me.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"And April is summer-bound, and February's blue. And no one stops to see the colors." -Ian Anderson ("March the Mad Scientist")

Well, 1,001 years IS a numerical Palidrome . . . those don't happen too often, currently every 110-111 years (the last one for us was 2002) :P
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts -- Willy Wonka

I know little of math at all. But the Gathering was pretty significant I think. What with the exiled Children leaving the mortal world. And they were gone a not so round 1,001 yrs.
Justin - [justin dot lindley at gmail dot com]
Justin M. Lindley

Siren> Heh. I never thought of it that way, but it's a cool idea, and it makes a lot of sense.

Golitath, Demona, Elisa> Demona's relationship with Thailog is the largest proof, to me anywyay, that she still desires Goliath, in a twisted sort of way. That is, she wants a Goliath to do what she wants, to believe what she does, instead of being able to accept that they will never reconcile because of what *she* did. Before his betrayal, she might have viewed Thailog as a Goliath cast in the mould that she wanted. It might be why she was in denial about Thailog at the end of "Sanctuary" and up until "The Reckoning"; someone who looked like Goliath and apparently shared her outlook was just too nice a package.

Most of this would be subconscious; before Puck pointed out that Demona might still be "carrying the torch" there was no mention of it, and Demona might have balked at the idea that she'd be so sentimental as to keep holding on to something obviously hopeless.

Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson

Demona Bringing Elisa and Goliath Together> Interesting thought. In addition to instigating the events of "The Mirror", forcing Goliath to recognize the growing feelings he had for Elisa (as I do believe the emotional attraction was already there), her appearence when the clan reawakened and her subsequent revelation of her true motives paved the way for Elisa and Goliath to come together eventually. If Demona had actually died in the Wyvern Massacre or had simply never shown up at the newly skyscraper topping Castle Wyvern, Goliath may well have continued to carry a torch for Demona and never allowed his friendship with Elisa to develop into anything more. Heck, we saw how long he held out hope that they could reconcille when he knew that she was willing to blast him with a lazer bazooka. Imagine how long he would reamin faithful to her memory if he only had his idealized angel to look back on.

As for Puck's little revelation of what Demona supposedly really wants, I think there is some part of her that does want Goliath back. Not the Goliath that she's been doing battle with since his revival in modern times, but the Goliath she's been dreaming of and idealizing (to her ideals, anyway) for all these centuries, the Goliath she was certain would join her cause and fight by her side again. She's not willing to turn away from her cause to get him back, of course. But even though she barely aknowledges it, I think she does long to be with him again. If he had never lost his thirst for vengeance against the Hunters, I'm sure she would have welcomed his help.

Demonskrye

"I agree entirely about the number 1,000 not being more significant than other numbers, besides it being a cube. And that's the basis of my question. The duration could just as easily have been 985 or 1016 years, so is it a coincidence that the number was one considered an important milestone by most humans, or was it someone's intention?"

My point is that we've got no reason to assume it's anything but a coincidence. People see things turn out in even powers of ten, and they assume it means something. "Exactly 1,000 years? That can't be a coincidence!" Well, why not? If I pointed out every time two events were exactly 512 years apart and insisted that there was some significance to them, very few people would believe me.

That said, there may yet be a reason. I just wouldn't want to jump to the conclusion that there must be something significant because of the number of years that have past.

"And then there's the answer from the production side that only Greg can answer. Did they make it 1000 even to simplify things for the viewer, or did "about 1000 years" become "exactly 1000 years" without thought during the writing process?"

It sounds cool, I guess. It was a happy coincidence that Macbeth turned out to be so close to their timeframe.

"On a personal note, I try not to place any specific importance on integral powers of 10, unless it would make a project more user-friendly. Powers of 2 are often more useful to me, and occasionally if I want to do something mathematically elegant, I might use integral or simple-fractional powers of e. Such as my preferred unit of factor of change, the centex, which is a compromise between the user-friendliness of percentages and the elegance of e^x."

If I had to create a new number system, I'd use base 6. I find multiples of 6 turn up quite a lot, and lots of numbers divide by 6 into simple fractions. I am intrigued by this centex of yours- I've never heard of it. Do tell.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Oops, that was me.
Vaevictis Asmadi

I remember in the commentary, Greg said at the Airship scene when Goliath saves Vinnie from Demona "He didn't know it, but right there, it's over between them." Or something like that.
She does give him one last chance at the castle, but on the end of a rocket launcher. And she blames him for the massacre, too! "If you had taken everyone out, they'd still be alive!"

It seems like the more times she messed up and ruined things for herself over the years after the massacre, the more tightly she had to hold on to blaming everyone else. It's like the stakes kept getting higher everytime she caused another disaster for herself.

Anonymous

I dunno. Despite what Puck said about "still holding a torch", I don't think Demona is much interested in Goliath romantically anymore. Physically maybe, and probably nostalgically, but even in Awakenings, I think in Demona's mind they were long over.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Phoenician: Whether or not she accepts it, she might still be responsible on some level. I think that's what Siren was trying to say. Demona will likely deny it, as she does everything.

I think it's an interesting theory. It almost adds a new dimension to the final scene in "Awakening," when Demona tries one last time to sway Goliath.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"And April is summer-bound, and February's blue. And no one stops to see the colors." -Ian Anderson ("March the Mad Scientist")

Siren: I doubt that Demona would take responsibility for anything, especially sending Goliath off with Elisa. She'd just blame (and most likely does) Elisa, hence her great hatred and jealousy for the gal.

On the 1000 years: The number itself isn't significant, but I do think the timing WAS, in the sense that it probably couldn't have happened any sooner or later. Time itself is just pretty peculiar (which basically is a cliched statement).

"A rate of two or three units of time needed to resync for every unit of offset time would be reasonable for a magical spell to accomplish, and certainly fast enough that the offset can be ignored in later episodes."

But didn't Greg mention somewhere that distance greatly reduces the amount of pain they receive? I mean, D & M say it themselves in Avalon, don't they? If the pain reduces within the first three dimensions, I really doubt it'd be able to travel at all through the fourth.

Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts -- Willy Wonka

My opinion is still that since griffins appear in legends from very ancient times in Persia, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Anatolia/Turkey, Greece, India, and Skythia/Russia, that it seems pretty clear to me that the griffin-like gargoyles were not unique to England, and that they didn't first evolve there.

The griffin legend, in real life, originated in Asia and only came to Europe much later.

Vaevictis Asmadi

2 recent random thoughts lately...both about Elisa, Demona, and Goliath and both while I was making music videos.

Random Thought #1:
Goliath seeing Elisa/Jason kiss. I know he probably wasn't thinking about it at the time. Maybe he never did think of it this way. But at that moment he knows how Demona felt the first night they reunited after a 1000 years apart to run off to see Elisa. Demona had to be feeling very betrayed. She already had plans, but that probably cemented them against Goliath.

Random Thought #2:
I wonder if Demona realizes she is the one who set off Goliath finding Elisa attractive. He didn't find her attractive till she was a gargoyle in The Mirror. He may have had some bit of feelings deep down anyways, but I somehow doubt they were have manifested as quickly and strongly as they did if for not Demona's wish (which Puck of course muddled for the fun of it, but it was still Demona who originally set the events in motion). She may never realize that she was the one who helped Goliath to fall in love with Elisa. The poor sap :P

End pointless ramblings of a fool :P (I'm tired and worn out from caring for a new puppy)

Siren - [New Goliath/Demona Music Video! Click my name!]

Development of the English Clan> I'm reluctant to say that humans had that much of an effect on the appearance of the London Clan. Not to say they didn't have some effect, but I think it would be negligible given the time frame (a few thousand years). I'm not sure what would have prompted such a strong parallel with horses, lions, and eagles (which is the strongest feature in gryphon-like gargs seen so far, namely Griff), but I'd bet it was something already being stressed as the ancestors of clan moved towards London area. By the time they were settled proper, natural population genetics resulted in higher frequencies of those alleles, and hence those traits. I'm picturing that they were already feathered, or a majority of the clan were feathered, by that time as well. That's my thinking.
Asatira

Hmmmm, that comment on mutations has got me thinking. I wonder how gargoyle DNA would mutate as opposed to human DNA. Cancer can result when a strand of DNA mutates enough as it replicates itself. Avoiding most of the confusing scientific terms, for those who slept through college-level biology, your body produces an enzyme to make sure that the nucleotides of DNA match with their proper counterparts when the DNA strand replicates, but this enzyme sometimes makes mistakes, resulting in mutation. It's not noticable at first, until the cell containing the mutated DNA replicates enough times. I'm wondering if harmful DNA mutations would be cured by the gargoyle's sleep cycle, or not. It's not like most injury, since it's their own cells working against them.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Everybody's searching for something, they say. I'll get my kicks on the way." -Pink Floyd ("The Gold It's In The...")

--> Jurgan:
I agree entirely about the number 1,000 not being more significant than other numbers, besides it being a cube. And that's the basis of my question. The duration could just as easily have been 985 or 1016 years, so is it a coincidence that the number was one considered an important milestone by most humans, or was it someone's intention? And then there's the answer from the production side that only Greg can answer. Did they make it 1000 even to simplify things for the viewer, or did "about 1000 years" become "exactly 1000 years" without thought during the writing process?

On a personal note, I try not to place any specific importance on integral powers of 10, unless it would make a project more user-friendly. Powers of 2 are often more useful to me, and occasionally if I want to do something mathematically elegant, I might use integral or simple-fractional powers of e. Such as my preferred unit of factor of change, the centex, which is a compromise between the user-friendliness of percentages and the elegance of e^x.

Vid the Kid
Does this font make me look fat?

I searched in the archives for "legend" and I found this entry:

"okay something very weird just happened. I was answering a question that Matt posted about the 'chameleon gene'. Then suddenly, the question just changed. My answer (which I was in the process of writing) remained , but there was now a new question listed above it.....

Hmmmm.... Okay, I think Gore just re-activated the question answering function while I was typing and we had a little glitch here. Matt's question was lost. I'll try to recreate it a bit...

1. Matt wrote something like, "I know you're not a biologist, but how does this chameleon gene' work."
2. Matt thought gargoyles were the sources of various legends, but does the chameleon gene cause gargoyles to look like legendary characters.
3. He asked whether the gene would start changing the looks of familiar clans over time. Or something like that.

My answers to his original question; not to the paraphrased versions above. (Man, this is a mess.)

1. I have no idea. It was just a random thought.

2. No. Definitely not. You're first thought was correct.

3. Natural Mutations (not the Sevarius kind) are likely to occur. They occur to some degree in all species. I was simply positing (and only positing) that Gargoyles might have a gene that causes mutations to occur more frequently. But mostly, garg appearance is defined by heredity."

Vaevictis Asmadi

I can see how humans may have selected against the bat-winged gargoyles, but I still think that the chameleon gene does not cause gargoyles to move toward resembling a concept that humans have in their minds and in their art. That doesn't make biological sense to me. Evolution doesn't operate with goals in mind. And remember that intermediate forms have to have an advantage from the start. Unless gargoyles like Brooklyn had an advantage over Goliath in terms of which one humans would smash first, his descendants couldn't evolve to look like Griff. Anyway, as I said English heraldry didn't invent the griffin. The griffin came from ancient Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Persia, arrived in Classical Greece, and spread into Rome and Medieval Europe from there. And the first griffins were often guardian statues for ancient buildings.

The English gargoyles remind humans of lions, horses, and unicorns, and the artist for MIA used the descriptions whomever gave them and made them look *exactly* like lions and unicorns, but I think it is more a matter of them having an appearance which reminded humans of those more familiar animals, instead of evolving to specifically look like another animal.

I really think that the appearances of gargoyles, though more varied than humans, has a similar cause: individuals have their standards of what they find attractive, and genes mutate. Maybe, with the communal gargoyle species, a variety of small differences makes the group as a whole somewhat more versatile.

Vaevictis Asmadi

There never was any local clan. Until 2198, there was never a gargoyle clan residing on Queen Florence Island. Elsewhere in western Canada, probably, but not there.

Maybe the Liberty Clan in time will come to resemble Raven's Clan though. Now that'd be interesting.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Samuel: You're referring probably to "Dragons: A Fantasy Made Real". I liked it, though it would have been a lot better had they stuck with the same "fake animal documentary" structure of earlier works and not added the human story.

Everything else: I sometimes have a problem with explaining myself clearly...what I meant about the totem pole reference was to speculate if Canadian gargs might be of the same "animal style" as the London gargs. I know that totem poles have nothing to do with gargoyles and that Raven's clan was fake, but just wondered if, coincidentally, he represented the extinct local clans' appearance more or less accurately.

I think the Xanadu-as-dragonlike reference seemed far-fetched, too, but I'm just repeating what's in the wiki; I'd like to know the context for it, anyway.

I'm going to have to bow out of trying to explain how certain gargoyles grew to resemble other animals while some did not. Biology isn't my strong point. :P

Incisivis - [incisivis at gmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson

Thanks VA.

Gargoyle Appearance: I think it could happen that multiple concepts could evolve from one source. It's like with gossip how stories get completely stretched and flipped around until there are multiple and seemilngly unrelated stories derived from the same source.
Though, I'd rather like it if dragons and gargoyles are seperate biological entities. Even if dragons were some kind of gargate.

Slightly off topic, but there's a mockumentary about the evolution of dragons that I saw once. It was really snazzy-dazzy and I suspect that people here might get a kick out of it. I just can't remember right now what it was called.

Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
"What sorcery is this?"

Vaevictis, Phil> Hey, I agree, I honestly don't know how or how well the Chameleon Mutation Gene works. I think there are perhaps better explanations. The thing is, Greg came up with this and I'm trying to make it work based on what he has said.

Greg has basically said that totem poles have nothing to do with gargoyles. That works for me. But other things, like heraldic animals are a bit trickier. Okay, so gargoyles and other local legends were inspired by the appearence of local gargoyles, fine. But why would English gargs evolve to look like horses and lions? That doesn't make much sense. There has to be a distinct reason that they have evolved in this manner. There has to be a reason lion and horse traits were selected to survive into future generations. Evolution is blind, it can not see that in the future humans will regard horses and unicorns and lions as heraldic. What was the pressure put on those gargs that caused them to evolve in that direction?

This is why, in the English gargs case at least, I think the heraldic beasts came first and then gargoyles evolved to look like them. Maybe in ChacIxChel a few gargoyles developed snake bodies and feathered wings and the Maya revered them in art, but a quetzacoatl is not an existing creature, lions and horses are. I think the english began revering horses and lions and at the same time were destroying and wiping out their gargoyles. Any gargoyles that looked demonic or evil were killed or shattered, any gargoyles that looked "good" (ei angelic, horse-like, lion-like) survived simply based on apperence. Therefore, there was a unique selection pressure favoring heraldic animals with feathered wings in England.

So, basically, I don't think there is a world-wide formula for understanding local gargoyle appearence. Sometimes an appearence may have influenced a culture, sometimes a culture may have influenced an appearence, and sometimes the two had no effect on each other at all.

Just my take.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Samuel -- Yes! March 28.


I hope that Greg doesn't use dragons for the Chinese gargoyles. Chinese dragons are shape-shifting river spirits who control the rain and weather. They aren't like gargoyles at all. The Chinese had other legends that work much, much better. There are still winged statues in China today.

As for totem poles, Greg has stated in his rambles and shown in the episode Heritage that they are based on animals and spirits, not on gargoyles.

Vaevictis Asmadi

"Then again, maybe it's just a cigar." Hahahah. Hah.

How's everyone been doing? Well, I hope. I see there are new people in the room. So, hello.

Is there a release date for G3 that I missed? I've been busy with Midterms and the like.

Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
"What sorcery is this?"

Matt> I would think, rather than gargoyles mutating/evolving to fit in with local legends, that the legends are based on local gargoyles. So, for example, Chinese gargoyles would not have evolved to look like dragons, rather the legendary "mythical" dragons are based on ancient Chinese gargoyles.

This could even work for totem poles. They are not carved to look like any modern local gargoyles, but perhaps they are based on ancient gargoyles who lived in the area so long ago that they are thought to be merely legendary.

Then again, maybe it's just a cigar.

Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

I think it more likely that gargoyle variation worldwide developed over the millennia after they evolved and spread over the world, and that gargoyle-like legends were inspired by gargoyles.

Chinese dragons of legend aren't anything like gargoyles, though. They were shapeshifters, with great magic powers, they flew without wings, and they were ministers of the Celestial Bureaucracy. I really think those dragons were Children of Mab or something akin to the European dragons, whatever those are. There are other Chinese legends that are far more similar to gargoyles, including statues that were used to guard buildings, tombs, bridges, and so forth: the beast-like Fu-Dogs, the winged Pi-Xiu, and the Tomb Beasts with a variety of appearance.

I don't know of any North American examples north of Mesoamerica of guardian statues in stone, but in the Mississippi Valley there were artworks depicting bird-men and winged serpents, which I think were gargoyles. I haven't found any similar artwork from Canada or the Northwest Coast, so I don't know what any gargoyles there would have looked like. But I think that given the widespread griffin legend, which was found from India and Persia to Turkey and Italy, and the winged lion statues with a similar distribution, I'd say that the feathered "heraldic" type gargoyles lived in many parts of Eurasia and inspired more than just heraldic symbols.

Vaevictis Asmadi

Incisvis> Well, we know that Totem Poles have nothing to do with gargoyles, despite the smililarities. "Heritage" made it pretty clear that Totem Poles were erected to honor the peoples animal ancestors. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, afterall.

That said, I'm sure there were other clans that existed in present day Canada. Grandmother seems familiar with gargoyles (though she said they had never lived on Queen Florence Island) and Goliath said that long ago there were clans all over the world. As for what they looked like, well, thats harder to say.

The thing is, there is no hard and fast rule that says gargoyles have to look like local architectural gargoyles (demons, heraldic beasts, quetxacoatl, fu-dogs, etc). Greg has talked about his Chameleon Mutation Gene a lot and I've given it a lot of thought. This gene (whatever it is and however it works) seems to micro-evolve gargoyles into forms more befiting local gargoyles, at least cosmetically. I think the best explanation for this gene and why/how it improves fittness is to say that modern day gargoyles have had a lot of troubles with humans for the past couple millenia and having a form that allows you to blend in with existing gargoyles, not to mention positive local legends, will improve your chances of not being smashed or hunted down.

So, maybe maybe in the past, before humans became a major threat, gargoyles world-wide looked more alike to each other. Which means maybe ancient 'Canadian' gargoyles looked like gargoyles you might find in Austrailia and Russia and India and Africa.

I dunno, there are a lot of maybes in this post.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Just a reminder, the deadline for the current AMGC topic runs at (well, around) midnight tonight.
Aaron - [amgc_art at yahoo dot com]

I'm like Vaevictus: I've got a few questions that I haven't seen covered in the archives or the FAQ, but like a good little fangirl, I'll ask them here, instead.

But a free queue is always a good thing.

This is my smallest question; like some of the others here, I'm a Canadian (if not an especially stereotypical one), so I can't help but wonder if anyone, anywhere has given any thought to what characteristics any native Canadian gargoyle clans would have had, if they existed in that country. I'm assuming that they were there, just now were extinct, but it's just my assumption.

I know about the Liberty Clan and Raven's fake gargoyles, but obviously those aren't the same thing as a real, native clan. Seeing Raven's gargoyles might suggest an English-esque style of gargoyle, but it could be that he used the totem pole creatures as basis for his constructs because they were convenient designs to borrow from, and a link with the local architecture would strengthen his deception.

I don't know...it also makes me wonder if the anthro-animal style of gargoyle existed in any other clans, because while it's not my favourite gargoyle design style, it's an interesting variation. I've just noticed that the Xanadu entry suggests that the gargoyles of that clan might resemble Chinese dragons.

Okay, that's more than one question, but they've been on my mind. :P

Incisivis - [incisivis at gmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson

Thanks for the congratulations, guys. This is just such a huge deal for me and I'm so stoked to have this actually be happening.
Now I just have to pass the licensing exam in May so I can actually be a doctor. There's just that little thing to get out of the way. :-)

Whitbourne

Jurgan, that is a good idea about Avalon. I hadn't thought of any way that the effect could be permanent for Angela and King Arthur.
I still want to ask Greg, though. :)

You have a good point about the 1000 years, too.

Vaevictis Asmadi

Wingless> "Whitbourne is as Canadian as a person gets, believe me" ... well, you've never met me!

Siren> I'm anctious to se4e the video... is it up somewhere??? I too am knida following the Peter Beagle thingy... I bought the new DVD... (from Colan press) and they did a wonderful job on it.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Todd: I don't think that qualifies as an idea. Generally, what Greg refers to as ideas are thoughts about things that might happen or be revealed in the future, because if he chooses to do something similar, someone might claim he stole the idea. Reinterpretations of past events are more acceptable, since the episodes that have already come out are set in stone, and no one can claim that they were taken from ideas submitted to him afterwards.

As for 1,000 years being significant. Honestly, I'm not sure why it would be. As a mathematician, it always bothers me when people bring up numbers that work out to powers of ten and act as though there's some deep significance to it. There's really nothing that special about powers of ten. They only seem special because we use a base ten number system, but that's completely arbitrary. If I were to point out things that occurred in exact 216 or 512 year intervals (those being 6^3 and 8^3, respectively), no one would be impressed, yet they have no less inherent significance than 1,000. The only way I would be convinced 1,000 years was somehow significant is if the reawakening was being guided by some intelligent being who thought in base ten, and I can't imagine what that would be. Certainly not Avalon, with its shapeshifters.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

There is one thing that I'm tempted to ask Greg about when the queue re-opens, though I've been hesitant about doing so because it might just possibly be an idea. It's really more a possible alternate interpretation of a moment in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time".

At the start of the episode, the two archaeologists find Merlin's Scrolls in a chest with an inscription upon it saying "The seeker of knowledge has nothing to fear, the destroyer everything." Greg's ramble suggested that the inscription was connected with a spell that Merlin had placed upon the chest to protect its contents from marauders like Hakon, which works nicely.

But the revelation of the true contents of the Scrolls of Merlin offered a different interpretation of that line to me. Macbeth believes that the scrolls contain Merlin's spells and steals them, apparently hoping to use them against Demona. Obviously, other people who'd want to use magic for personal gain would have similarly sought the scrolls if they'd had the opportunity (I've no doubt that the Archmage would have gone after them if he'd been aware of them; Demona would very likely have also been interested in them, maybe in the hopes of finding something in them that could wipe out the human race). But it turns out that they don't contain Merlin's spells, but rather his memoirs. Such a thing would be of no benefit to a "destroyer" in the sense of somebody wanting to use Merlin's magic for corrupt purposes, but would be of benefit to a "seeker of knowledge" - an eye-witness account of King Arthur's times written by Merlin himself!

I don't know if it counts as an idea or not, but if it doesn't, I'd certainly be interested in seeing what Greg would think of that interpretation.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

I think the 1000 years question is interesting (especially considering that the timing of Arthur's return was significant). And there's something like 3 days between the dates in 994 and 1994, and I'm not sure if that includes the point Goliath was sent to sleep. I don't think it's impossible that the specific time period has greater significance. Although if it does, I wonder whether Greg would (or should) reveal that.
Ed

-> Greg B:

First, I didn't know exactly when Macbeth was born, and Ed (KingCobra) seemed to think he was alive somewhere during that time. And as far as the argument "She wouldn't die there, because she didn't die there" goes, well you could say the same thing about Xanatos, but that doesn't mean he was invulnerable. Just because a couple of the characters have some memory of contemporaneous / near-future events doesn't provide any guarantee of what will happen to them, such as their chance of survival -- after all, their younger selves weren't (generally) aware of their older selves' presence. Matt seems to get at least some of the aspects of the question that I'm after. Anyway, this Vows example is just an example -- this issue could come up anytime Demona or Macbeth travel through time (especially over relatively short displacements) and get in a fight. Although I admit that's probably not very often, especially with the Phoenix Gate "MIA" from 1996 onwards, but we certainly don't know the entire history of the Gate.

Interestingly enough, I came up with a theory just a few minutes ago on this subject that would keep the Demona/Macbeth link intact and one-to-one across time, based on wormholes. It has a corollary, however, that if their ages (in the sense of total elapsed experienced time since being cursed) become different, there would then be a time offset between Demona and Macbeth where, for example, Demona's pain might be felt by Macbeth a week later, but Macbeth's pain might be felt by Demona a week before it happens. So, unless Demona spent exactly as much time in the past as she might have been observed "missing" from the present, this probably isn't the rule for the show, considering the pair seemed to be in sync a couple episodes later. On the other hand, we're talking about magic, which is not so closely constrained by physics as wormholes, so I suppose if the offset described above is small enough (surely no more than a few hours in the case of Vows), it could automatically diminish and resynchronize. A rate of two or three units of time needed to resync for every unit of offset time would be reasonable for a magical spell to accomplish, and certainly fast enough that the offset can be ignored in later episodes. And extra brownie points to anyone who understands that, because we're getting into fundamentals of relativity here.

Vid the Kid
Does this font make me look fat?

I have a few questions that I would like to submit, most about the past like by the time of the French Revolution, were there any gargoyle clans left living on mainland Europe. Stuff that isn't spoilerish, but more like filling in a timeline of past events that do have relevance to the gargoyles universe.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Congrats on the notice, Siren!
Asatira

Nice theory Jurgan: A better and more thorough answer than I would have given, which would have been the cliched "Avalon compensated."

As for the time traveling questions in the air: I doubt any of Macbeth's or Demona's past selves would feel anything if Demona or Macbeth were to visit them, and I doubt that any of them traveling through time would affect the other in the present day . . . otherwise, that'd leave the possibilty open that they could be haunted by past attacks ALL their lives.

(Runs off to the cookie table, never noticing it before . . . )

Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts -- Willy Wonka

I've long thought that Ask Greg was something of a mixed blessing. On the one hand, I now kind of wish that I didn't know so much about what was coming up. However, I think it did more good than harm, because without Greg throwing us an occasional bone, I doubt the fandom would have survived ten years.

VA: How does Angela speak English? I'm betting Greg doesn't know the answer to that question- it doesn't strike me as the sort of thing he thinks about much. I have my own explanation, though. Greg has used the idea that the Manhattan Clan speaks English because Demona cast a spell on them before they awakened that allowed them to speak English. But what about those who were on Avalon? My theory is that Avalon itself has a "Babelfish" effect whereby all people can understand whatever language they hear. Avalon is full of magic and populated by shapeshifters, so it makes sense that words spoken on it might "shift" to another language. The Bablefish effect is residual, and remains in place for some time after people leave Avalon, thus explaining why the World Tourists never had any trouble with speaking with foreigners. Once they stopped going to Avalon, the Babelfish effect gradually wore off, but since Angela was immersed in English, her knowledge of it became permanent. Well, that's my story, anyway.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Whitbourn -- congratulations! I hope you enjoy learning neurology.

Ozzie -- Welcome!

Harvester -- I think the Trio bios are hilarious, especially Brooklyn's bio. But I think the one on Demona has too many facts in it. Instead of saying she hates all humans and wants to kill them, just say that she wants to take over the world for no discernible reason. (ie, just like a typical cartoon villain).


Revealed information on Ask Greg. >> Hm, you guys kind of have a point. I wonder if I have the self-control not to ask those sorts of questions. :) But I do have questions that aren't like that, I promise. More clarification sorts of questions, such as "How can Angela speak English?"

Vaevictis Asmadi

Technically, it wasn't a 1000 years exactly anyway. I believe it was a month or so off.

As for time travel and Demona and Macbeth. When Demona went to 975, the spell had been cast on her, but not her younger counterpart yet. And I'd say that there was certainly some distance between the Demona with the spell and the Macbeth with the spell. If 1996 Demona time traveled back to 1020, and met 1020 Macbeth she would have the spell on her, but 1020 Macbeth and Demona wouldn't. So if 1996 Demona was hurt while standing next to 1020 Macbeth I doubt he'd feel anything.
The real question is if 1996 Demona traveled back in time to some date like 1776 or something and met 1776 Macbeth. Both of them have the spell connecting them, so would they share pain then?
An even more interesting question would be what if 1996 Demona traveled back and met her 1776 self. Would 1996 Demona share pain with 1776 Demona?

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

My email is sirengarg AT yahoo DOT com. :)

None Gargoyles related but I am squeeling like a school girl about this...

I just posted a trailer I made for Last Unicorn last night. And next thing I know, Connor Conlan (business manager to Peter S. Beagle....Peter wrote Last Unicorn) contacts me and asks for a copy of the video and if I can make one minor change (make the text at the end last longer, which I did). Now I do wonder what he wants to use it for. I would be so honored if he had it on his webpage. I would probably fall over and die with happiness :P

Siren - [New Goliath/Demona Music Video! Click my name!]

Way to go Dylan! *hug*

Hey Siren, what's your email? I have a AMV question. Actually, its for anyone who works with video captures and the Gargoyles DVDs.

Lynati

Greg B: Round numbers are nice. Unlike those square numbers. They just can't hep to the jive!
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Now, you've gotta give the people something good to read on a Sunday." -The only band that really matters.

Vid the Kid> Macbeth was born in 1005. "Vows" took place in 975. Do the math.

And as for whether or not she was vulnerable. She wouldn't die there, because she didn't die there. Time travel is funny that way. It's a hypothetical, and Greg really dislikes hypotheticals.

As for it being a coincidence it was one thousand years? Probably was.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison

I've had a few questions that I've been wanting to submit for a while now, though one of them has been approximately answered by looking through the FAQ. My second question, though, which I will briefly describe here, has apparently never been asked in Ask Greg (I searched the AG archive). That question is, how does time travel affect the link between Macbeth and Demona? For example, when Castle Wyvern was visited by Goliath, Demona, Xanatos, and the rest from the future in Vows, there were two Demonas at that time and possibly one very young Macbeth. Was the Demona from the future vulnerable at that time, or might there have been some link to the young (if even born yet) Macbeth, or across time to the Macbeth of the future?

Another thing I want to ask, but haven't done any real research on, is whether it was a coincidence that the clan was stone for 1,000 years -- chances are slim it'd be a nice round number like that.

Both of these questions I wouldn't mind discussing further in the CR. I do intend to post the time travel one to AG whether or not someone here comes up with a nice, neat answer (unless it's Greg himself) but I'll wait patiently for the AG submittal form to re-open. Greg really deserves a vacation from that.

Vid the Kid
Does this font make me look fat?

Todd: Forgot to mention this earlier, but I'm actually more worried about being crucified for what I've done with the character bios.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"But see? That's what I'm talking about. Now Venture will send Samson after the rest of us and he'll go totally sickhouse on our asses. I like my ass, gentlemen!" -The Monarch

Welcome Ozzie - The more, the merrier. Now you've got the new comic series get in on as well. We live again!
Wingless

I agree with Greg B, for as long as new material is coming out (may it never end) I think Ask Greg should only be used for Gathering Journals, Reviews and Feedback, and clarification of events, timetables and other details in canon material.

Ozzie> Welcome to the Comment Room. Have a cookie. *points to cookie table*

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

The thing with Ask Greg now, is that with the comic coming out, Greg will probably be reluctant to reveal ANYTHING. Right now, we're getting new canon, a spin-off, and potential for even more spin-offs.

Greg has regreted revealing a lot of things over the years, just in case, he one day got his second chance. We may have never considered it likely, but look, it's happening. And, I'll admit, there are some things that I now wish I didn't know.

So, when ASK GREG re-opens, I'll probably use it for feedback more than anything else. I'll be posting reviews for individual issues, or discussing canon events with him.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison

Matt: <So, I guess the question is... what are we supposed to do now?> I say that we plot mayhem. That, or learn slam-dancing.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"But see? That's what I'm talking about. Now Venture will send Samson after the rest of us and he'll go totally sickhouse on our asses. I like my ass, gentlemen!" -The Monarch

Ozzie Arcane>
Welcome to the board! Always glad to have a new face! I hope you like it here. I am a lurker mostly myself, I post when necessary... But hey sometimes the debates get heated. My best advice to you is speak your mind, be open to differing views and understand we are all here under a common love.. Gargoyles! So if someone is rude, it isnt a blatant attack on you, just roll with it.

Welcome!

Justin - [justin dot lindley at gmail dot com]
Justin M. Lindley

Battle Beast - Whitbourne is as Canadian as a person gets, believe me ^_^
It'll be cool having him and Stormy here in Ottawa. Just wish we could somehow let Keith David know. Those two got along well at the Montreal convention. I think Keith would like to know. Our very own neurologist in the fandom. Sorry if this post seems a little gushy, but I've known Whit now for close to 10 years as a result of this fandom and I know how hard he's worked for this, and I'm damn proud of him.

Again, Congrats Whit! You're made your dream a reality.

Wingless

Hello there, I just found this place while trying to find a Gargoyles message board and thought I'd introduce myself. I've liked the series since it originally aired and I was so obessed with it that a few years back I kept typing Gargoyles in the amazon.com search bar every now and then until I finally saw Season 1 pop up. I've bought the box sets already and when I heard about the sales preventing further releases I actually bought them for a friend just to help boost the sales.

While I actually have started to download a torrent of the episodes that we haven't got yet, I fully intend to buy the DVDs when and if they get released.

Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at wowway dot com]

I've already talke about most of them in here and none of them have been aswered in the archives. I've already read most of the archvies anyway. I don't have questions because I'm new, I have them because they haven't been aswered yet.

Of course, there are a whole lot of other questions that I know Greg will refuse to answer because he doesn't like quantifying things and doesn't want to "tie the artists' hands," but I won't even bother with those questions.

Anonymous

Vaevictis Asmadi> Of course those who are relatively new to the show will have more questions than those of us who have been around a while. I hope you're reading the archives, and I'd encourage you to ask questions here in the comment room rather than flooding Ask Greg (not that you would, but someone might). Not only would that prevent the queue from ballooing out of control again, but we could always use a good topic for discussion here.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

<<I'd imagine that after ten years, we've asked Greg almost everything there is to be asked.>>

Pardon me, but speak for yourself, please. I am bursting with many questions that I want to ask, and I can only ask a fraction of them without obnoxiously flooding the queue and crowding everyone out. I have plenty of questions to ask, that I'm waiting eagerly to submit. I haven't learned everything I ever wanted to know about the Gargoyles Universe, and until I do I won't run out of questions.

Vaevictis Asmadi

Congrats, Whit! YOu are from Canada, right?

Way to go!!!

Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Ack, double-post. Sorry. ^^;

Whitbourne - Congratulations! You deserve it, man!

Rock on!

The Sadistic Cow
I believe the children are our future... unless we stop them NOW!

KingCobra - "Forgive me if I sound naive, but who's Grima Wormtongue?"

Grima Wormtongue was King Theoden's "attendant", Theoden being the King of Rohan and Lord of the Rohirrim (the horse-masters) in Lord of the Rings (The Two Towers). Grima was the nasty dude who was poisoning the king's mind and basically running things for him, serving Saruman (the White Wizard/Lord of Isengard) and trying to shag Eowyn.

The Sadistic Cow
I believe the children are our future... unless we stop them NOW!

I'm telling the whole world here, so that means I get to keep you folks in the loop too.

Just found out that I matched to the neurology program at the University of Ottawa. This summer I move to Ottawa and spend the next five years learning how to be a neurologist.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whitbourne

What to do now...

I'd imagine that after ten years, we've asked Greg almost everything there is to be asked. And he's not likely to be very revelatory here with the comic book coming out regularly (fingers crossed). Of course the comic will bring up new questions that we can ask.

But I've been thinking that it's been a long time since we've had a contest at Ask Greg. Remember Arthurian Survivors, Guess the Clans, and (my favorite) Gargoyles 2198? It obviously wasn't practical to start a contest with a huge backlog at Ask Greg, but now...

Of course, Greg is probably busier now than he's been in a while, what with writing monthly (knock on wood) comics and working on Spider-man. But a guy can dream.

Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

Matt > We can revise the Ask A Question page so that it more forcefully tells people to ask on the CR and read the FAQ and archives first. The current page seems somewhat ambivalent about that.

P.S. I'm on a school computer so I may be getting my color wrong..

Anonymous

Wow, Congrats Greg!

Technically, I've never seen an empty queue here before either since when I first came around in late 2000, there was a one week queue, but it is very nice to finally have it empty. Good for you, Greg.

Alex Garg> Hilarious comment, my boyfriend and I caught the quote right away.

Ya know, I'm really feeling this is the second Golden Age for Gargoyles. The comics, the DVDs, the spinoffs, the Gathering still going strong, and now Greg is caught up. If someone took the Phoenix Gate and went back to 2002, I doubt any of us would have actually believed we'd get here. I mean, go read the CR archives. It's really neat to see how all these things are happening.

I'm remembering all the many arguments, debates and brainstorming over how to get an empty Ask Greg queue. Here it is. Pretty cool. Good job Gore and Todd and everyone else who helped out, and of course, again, esspecially Greg...

So, I guess the question is... what are we supposed to do now?

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Todd Jensen> Forgive me if I sound naive, but who's Grima Wormtongue?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.

Re the Uncyclopedia: I was particularly amused at the notion of using Grima Wormtongue to represent Eric Lewald (though I wouldn't be surprised if a few people here promptly claim that Harvester just slandered Grima).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Empty Queue> *smashes a hole in the Station 8 floor with his jaw*

Holy crap. I've GOT to read some of his latest (and last, for now) responses!!

*scampers over to AG, while promising to pay for repairs to the floor*

Gargs Uncyclopedia> *reads it and dies laughing*

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.

That was truly a pleasant surprise, to wake up to find that Greg had answered the last of the questions. The queue is finally empty. Well-done, Greg!

Let's hope that the queue never gets so hopelessly crowded again when it re-opens.

As a side-note, I was amused to notice that Greg described the anachronisms in "A Midsummer Night's Dream" as "Xena-esque" - but given how both it and "Hercules: the Legendary Journeys" had made people like Julius Caesar contemporary with the characters of Greek mythology, it's certainly an apt term for them.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

The queue is empty? Yay. I would have a drink to that but I dont drink. How about a nice urbal tea instead? :)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!........oh, and my new gamertag on xbox live for 360 is "I am Goliath"

Awesome!!!! The queue is EMPTY!!!!! I had a "drink" or two to celebrate!

"Where's that Justin Lindley? Huh? He bet me I would get so drunk I'd take off all my clothes off!"

Justin - [justin dot lindley at gmail dot com]
Justin M. Lindley

Is it just me or does Elisa sound like she is in a porn movie at the very beginning of this clip... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO-oTDY0XYM&NR
Siren - [New Goliath/Demona Music Video! Click my name!]

Empty queue! Yatta!

I thought the "gay is a sin" questioner was not malicious, just misguided, and so I think Greg handled her question well- not by insulting her, but simply by suggesting she rethink what she's been told. As for the racist question: I didn't expect such a graceful response from Greg. I thought he'd be too stunned to come up with a decent response- I know I was. One theory I had about that question was that it was intended as a parody of the earlier "gay" question, since we were arguing about the gay question in the comment room at the time the racist question was posted. I'm probably wrong, though, and it's just a small-minded bigot. I doubt (s)he was ever a fan of the show. Perhaps it was the father of a fan who didn't like his son watching "PC crap."

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

I never knew of an empty question queue . . . I discovered the site in late 2003 . . . so this is a pretty sweet!

Congradulations Greg, and thanks for going through so many questions (especially those you've answered HUNDRREDS of times and those randomnly biggot ones)!

And GregXB: Maybe just a LITTLE. :P

Oh is this a great time to be a Garg fan!!

Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts -- Willy Wonka

Siren: You do raise an interesting point. I was just saving the character bios to the Gargoyles entry, since I'm having trouble with the plot synopsis. But anyway, you might find a few amusing contradictions in here.

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Gargoyles

Now it's off to bed.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"But see? That's what I'm talking about. Now Venture will send Samson after the rest of us and he'll go totally sickhouse on our asses. I like my ass, gentlemen!" -The Monarch

Was that white supremacy question to "Ask Greg" legit? I can't fathom how someone who thinks like that could have been a fan of "Gargoyles" to begin with. I smell a troll.

101 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]

Ha GREAT now that the quue is empty i can post those 200 questions i have written since 1994...
Kidding!!...hehehe...yeah...kidding...mm

Demon@

LOL, but that's the point of that website. To make up stories and lies. So saying the show sucks there isn't a lie, its the truth. I certainly wouldn't rewrite what's written, but its just a suggestion :)
Siren - [New Goliath/Demona Music Video! Click my name!]

Siren: I don't know. I think a lot of the fandom would want to crucify me if I said things like Greg Weisman has a shrine to Egon Pax in his garage.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"But see? That's what I'm talking about. Now Venture will send Samson after the rest of us and he'll go totally sickhouse on our asses. I like my ass, gentlemen!" -The Monarch

The Goliath Crapicals on uncyclopedia......I don't know, I expected something like, "It was the best show ever". The website is suppost to be LIES anyways, right? lol I think a sarcastic view of the show would be even funnier, but that's me. I like sarcastic humor :P
Siren - [New Goliath/Demona Music Video! Click my name!]

Greg B: Why not? I always wanted to see if it mixed with Guinness.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"But see? That's what I'm talking about. Now Venture will send Samson after the rest of us and he'll go totally sickhouse on our asses. I like my ass, gentlemen!" -The Monarch

Greg's respone to the bigot and young girl about Lex being gay......Some of the BEST responses I have seen yet :D Thanks Greg and go take a nice long break :D You deserve it!
Siren - [New Goliath/Demona Music Video! Click my name!]

An empty queue?

No - no words. No words to describe it. Poetry! They should've sent a poet. So beautiful. So beautiful... I had no idea.

Alex Garg - [fiatnox at gmail dot com]

Man, I'm sure I owe like, a dozen people $20 each now ... ;)
Marty "Kaioto" Lund - [kaioto at yahoo dot com]

HoE> You can have your beer. ::Pops a bottle of champane:: I've been saving this since 2000... good year. Who wants some?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison

Woah. Congratulations, Greg -- and thanks for soldiering on with this. I don't know how many thousands of questions you've answered over the years but the fact that you've kept at this solidly for what must now be about a decade is... incredible. Enjoy your break.

(And I didn't not enjoy the sharp putdowns on a couple of questions either. ;))

Ed

Empty queue! Go, Greg, go!

Rock on!

The Sadistic Cow
I believe the children are our future... unless we stop them NOW!

Some interesting responses, and the sharp sound of a few bigots being slapped as well. Nice work! : D
Lynati

Yay! Empty queue! Way to go, Greg! *noisemaker*
Asatira

Awesome!

*starts tossing beers to people*

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"But see? That's what I'm talking about. Now Venture will send Samson after the rest of us and he'll go totally sickhouse on our asses. I like my ass, gentlemen!" -The Monarch

Vaevictis Asmadi - Thanks.
Greg Weisman
"How could I not believe in animism? Every time I get on my bathroom scale, proof is there before my eyes of the sentience (and perversity) of all things."

GREG IS CAUGHT UP!!!

The queue is EMPTY!!

Cognratulations, Greg!

Vaevictis Asmadi

Jurgan: I approve. If anyone else wants to add anything, feel free. I'm not trying to be lazy or anything, it's just that this isn't a serious project like the garg-wiki, merely a gag for a "fact-free" wiki.

But think before adding. The site offers some very good guidelines.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"But see? That's what I'm talking about. Now Venture will send Samson after the rest of us and he'll go totally sickhouse on our asses. I like my ass, gentlemen!" -The Monarch

Vicky> I asked SLG about Diamond's date, and here's what their Editor-in-Chief, Jennifer de Guzman said about it.

"Well, they could be right, but I'll stick with the 28th date unless I get sample copies this week. (Highly doubtful.) Diamond will probably bump it to the 28th's ship list once the 21st rolls around. But who knows? It could happen."

Me, I'm still expecting the March 28th date... if it arrive a week early, it'll be a pleasant surprise.

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison

I decided to add this to the uncyclopedia page:

"There have been persistent rumors that Gargoyles episodes have been released on DVD. This is untrue- Bob Iger has said that Gargoyles will not be released on DVD "until Space Mountain rises above the clouds." Likewise, there is no truth to the rumor that Gargoyles is now being continued in comicbook form with brand new stories. A search of amazon.com will not turn up any DVD's or comicbooks, and fans at www.s8.org/gargoyles will confirm that these rumors are categorically false."

Might as well get a plug in, right?

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

GregXB> Oddly, the Terror Dogs as depicted in the Ghostbusters cartoon were bright blue instead of grey, enhancing their Bronx-ish qualities. The more you know!

Harvester> BWAHAHAHA! Oh, jeez, that was a great entry. I haven't even seen an episode of TGC recently except for "The Journey" (I only have vague memories of some episodes shown during their ABC run, including "Generations" and "A Bronx Tail"), but even from reading the synopsis, they sound toxic.

Bad Guys> Yes, Yama wasn't truly a villain, just kind of stupid/misguided. And I'd love to see more of the Ishimura clan out of the context of "Bushido", because while the character designs were cool, as was the idea of a clan living harmoniously with humans, the plot of the episode didn't quite measure up to that promise...and I disliked a lot of the voice acting for the Japanese characters, it being rather stiff.

Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson

HARVESTER - Which strikes me as very good judgment on Hudson's part.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Todd: I'm wondering if Bronx will even be around. He and Hudson apparently have plans.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"But see? That's what I'm talking about. Now Venture will send Samson after the rest of us and he'll go totally sickhouse on our asses. I like my ass, gentlemen!" -The Monarch

Unless its a mistake Diamond comics shipping list has Gargoyles 3 out next week
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]

Siren - <Though I did notice a lot of the episodes are on YouTube but most are in German or something.> Yea, but I have a dumber question: What about megaupload.com and rapidshare.de ? I have noticed some copyrighted material on those two sites for download. Who is to say gargoyles episodes aren't hidden away on those sites since I don't see any obvious way to search for what files have been uploaded?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

Those German-dubbed "Gargoyles" episodes all appeared over the weekend, and I'm betting they'll be gone from Youtube and the account that uploaded them banned before too long.

102 days left until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2007]

I don't understand why people insist I upload episodes onto YouTube over and over again. Its annoying as all hell. And I try SO HARD to be nice...my latest response to the episode question...

"Its possible, but you won't see me do it. First, I support the show and want to see the next installment DVD come out. Downloading the episodes for FREE viewing HURTS DVD sales. Second, it ain't worth me getting banned from YouTube so people can (leech) watch it for free. Buy the DVDs and you can watch them whenever you want."

What Siren's REALLY wanted to say:
"No, I won't upload the episodes for you. Why? Because I am not going to feed you bunch of lazy leeches and let you get off by watching them here instead of supporting the show like the rest of us do. Don't give me crap you don't have less then $30 to buy the DVDs, because 12 year olds are finding ways to get the funds. Not to mention that YouTube could BAN me for posting them, and you and the other lazy leeches aren't worth ME being BANNED. Go out, get a job, and buy it yourself."

I am already skating on thin ice on YouTube posting music videos of copyrighted movies/shows and music. Like I am going to chance me being banned for that. Hell no.

Though I did notice a lot of the episodes are on YouTube but most are in German or something. Its still a big no-no, but it is interesting watching it in other languages.

Siren - [New Goliath/Demona Music Video! Click my name!]

I can't wait to see Bad Guys. I have a feeling I may be more interested in Yama, if only for the honor aspect that I got a sense of from the reel. I'm also looking forward to the Matrix's interactions with the rest of the group. For some reason, I think it's going to be an inadvertently smart-aleck.
Asatira

Wow Greg, same thought at the same time... well sorta, whats with the time thing. Todd and I are showing up on Central time, and you are on eastern time, but usually isn't the Room under one time zone only?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Todd> That mental image of Bronx totally reminds me of Ghostbusters.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

TODD> "And I hope that they (and the clan and Owen) have made provisions to keep Bronx away from the party. For one thing, I doubt that any costume party could survive him gatecrashing it and charging at the buffet table."

"Some moron brought a couger to a party and it went berserk."
- Ghostbusters

Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony." -Harlan Ellison

I wonder if Xanatos and Fox will wear their medieval outfits from "Vows" at the costume party in "Gargoyles" #3. That would make an amusing detail if they did.

And I hope that they (and the clan and Owen) have made provisions to keep Bronx away from the party. For one thing, I doubt that any costume party could survive him gatecrashing it and charging at the buffet table.

Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!

Just dropping in again to spread some evil. I took the liberty of doing an entry on the Goliath Chronicles for the uncyclopedia:

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/The_goliath_chronicles

But on the plus side, I did manage to spread the word of the existence of this site.

Enjoy. ( ;

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I'm together... I'm apart. I'm forever at the start." -Rush ("The Fountain of Lamneth")

As far as I know, it hasn't even been stated in a canon source yet that Robyn and Jason are in prison to begin with. I've only seen it on Ask Greg. But I don't have issue #2 yet, so I could be wrong.
Vaevictis Asmadi

More than anyone in the series I see Fang as the most typical kinda guy. I mean, he is the typical American guy. I meet guys like him everyday. That is what I like about him. The mutate thing aside, he seems to just be an ordinary guy. Frustrated, funny, sometimes a jerk. I dunno, thats how I read him.

As for Robyn, it'll be interesting to see how her story plays out. Unlike Dingo, Matrix and Yama, we've only really ever seen her as a villain. It's like she was JUST starting to open her eyes at the end of "Hunter's Moon". The rest of the Squad we can see that they've done bad stuff, but they are already taking their first steps on the path to redemption. But not Robyn, not yet. Actually, Fang is sorta the same way.

It'll be neat to see how the Director gets Robyn out of prison and Fang out of the Labyrinth... or maybe HE doesn't, someone else does.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Vaevictis Asmadi >OmG I luv Fang. I'd love to see stories with him agian.
Shara

Here's hoping! I'd love to learn more about the Ishimura Clan, and even meet some of the members.

I like Yama because he's not truly a villain. He was misguided and arrogant to make decisions for his clan, but he wasn't a villain. And I like Dingo because although he was a villain, I can tell that he's interested in persuing a more virtuous life.

Fang is a complete jerk but is is so funny, that it's hard to dislike the character, even though in person I'm sure I would hate him.

Robyn... um... I have nothing at all nice to say about her. I hate the Hunters.

Vaevictis Asmadi

I'm really hoping we see some of the relationship tension between Sora and Yama in Bad Guys. Or maybe actually seeing Yama banished and Sora's reaction to that. I think Yama will probably end up my favorite member of the Redemption Squad. The different relationships he'll form with Hunter and Fang will be great, and I'd love to see more conflict with the Ishimura Clan.

Since we'll be seeing Vinnie in Bad Guys, I suppose that means Greg will be taking us to Ishimura, so hopefully we'll be seeing a bit more of the Ishimura Clan.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

Matt> "Wow, I think that was a tie for first. Never seen that before."
Hmm, you're right. I didn't exactly look at the times we posted. But his was up first, so I was technically second. Anywho, moving on. I wonder what topics will come up this week.

Asatira

So, I just came around on my monthly visit, and just read Gregs last ramble, regarding the comic and Bad guys and all...

WOW!!

GREG, YOU ARE A BADA'SS!! :D:D

I mean, seriously, I'm absolutely amazed at those news. Not because it is Bad Guys - I wouldhavelikedtoseeTimedanceraswell - but as how things are moving along! G:CB seems to be quite a success, with all issues sold out, and doing Bad Guys was the next step (regarding chronology and... logic! duh Yeah, I WOULD have loved to see Timedancer, but not because of the storylines, but mainly because my favourite show-character is the lead... I'm rather... sceptical towards the Timedancing thing... as of now), and bringin it on is just awesome.

I've not seen the reel, but am excited to get the comic. As for B&W... Bada'ss, again. ;)

Thx a LOT to Greg and his publishers, co-workers and whatever. This is amazing news. :)

Brook

Wow, I think that was a tie for first. Never seen that before.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both human... and gargoyle!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"

11th!
Ed

(10)Tenth! And away we go on with the show. Hopefully anyway, if not then..... chirp chirp chirp
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!

Ninth.
Makhasu

Eighth!
Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon dot com]
GargoylesDVD.com

SEVENTH :)
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts -- Willy Wonka

666!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 11th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Life? You talk to me of life? What worth is there in the paltry existance of one useless female? A Simpering pointless girl who never did more than occupy space while I..." - Green Goblin

fifth!
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn at aol dot com]

F()R7H
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
Humans are such easy prey for a gargoyle!........oh, and my new gamertag on xbox live for 360 is "I am Goliath"

third
oneuke

Okay, second.
Asatira

First!
Asatira

1st
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?