Demon@: Venture Brothers?

TF: Heroes doesn't look particularly anime-knockoff to me. More like just highly stylized.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Sun, Jul 29, 2007 10:39:58 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

Incicivis: What bothers me is that they are all the same anime-faking.moviebasedon cartoons. I mean,, what happened with originality?! And with new stories and good stories :,( It has been months since i last saw tv, and i had a fever and coudnt do anything but watching tv and all i saw was trash! :( The Avatar is the only decent think i could find! Jake Long and Kim possible are good too, but Damn!
Demon@
posted @ Sun, Jul 29, 2007 9:02:36 pm EDT from 24.232.131.111

Personally I think as far as returning to a particular style of animation, we simply need more variety. Nowadays, it seems like all cartoons outside Jetix, Toonami and Avatar are nothing more than animated sitcoms rather than actual cartoons. I'm not agaisnt teen or school based toons by any mean (Have some favorites infact), just that there's more of them than the other types.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo,com]
posted @ Sun, Jul 29, 2007 2:50:38 pm EDT from 71.120.233.114

On Avatar:TLA- Personally, I feel like this is one of the best animated shows running today. The footage is almost always fantastic and beautiful (which is most of the reason I watch the show), but Avatar also does something that made me admire Gargoyles so much. Sure, the dialogue can fall flat or seem a little rushed (it's a kids show, isn't it?) but unlike almost anything else being produced at the moment, Avatar is not avoiding the issues. Most of Avatar is about war, what it does to communities and individuals of all walks of life. You see orphans and refugees everywhere, strong characters with disabilities, villains that are complicated legitimate protagonists in their own right. In a time when people forget America is in the middle of a war, when non-American casualties (and Americans sometimes, too) are faceless numbers of dead, it's nice to see a show that at least attempts to humanize and complicate war and "the enemy," even if only in the limited format of a children's television show.

I received "Bash" in the mail yesterday (Thanks for recommending Midtown Comics, they worked great), and the artwork (both line and coloring) is just lovely. Throughout the whole story arch, I laughed out loud several times, and was able to pimp the comic and series to several people while I was reading.

SPOILERS

Angela's ruby slippers were amazing! I don't know why they stuck out to me so much, but fabulous job. Any other spoilers I might mention have already been brought up about five times, so I'll have to leave it there.

SPOILERS END

I can't wait for umber 6 (especially now that I know where I can get my hands on the issue if SLG waits to make them available for order)!
Spoonvonstup - [<--- Gargoyles Music Video Database]
posted @ Sun, Jul 29, 2007 1:21:55 pm EDT from 192.246.231.153

It's called Transformes: Animated now, no more heroes.
It's not a continuation of the movie, but a new series on its own.

My general wish would be for a return to the traditional animation style, I don't like these overstylized series nowadays.
The Avatar is a very good series in story and design, I'd like to see more of that.
Anonymous
posted @ Sun, Jul 29, 2007 12:00:24 pm EDT from 84.184.112.224

Demonskrye >> Anyone got name suggestions for a Bronx clone?

Diego
Matt H
posted @ Sun, Jul 29, 2007 11:31:27 am EDT from 71.200.52.237

What's this about Bill Fagerbakke? Was he at Comic-con or something?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Sun, Jul 29, 2007 11:09:53 am EDT from 69.95.29.228

Demon@: Hey, don't diss cartoon-movie tie-ins. The Real Ghostbusters was a very good one.

Besides, I don't view Transformers: Heroes as a continuation of the movie, but just another notch in the Transformers franchises' belt. If it's actually supposed to be a sequel, well...I hope it's better than the movie. :/

Vicky82: I wasn't thinking about Fagerbakke at the time, but I do admit the persence of veteran TV animation voice actors is part of what makes me have some hope for Transformers: Heroes

Demonskyre: Nope, still didn't find "Future Tense" to be that shocking (some events were too bizarre to be), but certain events would make more sense with the clones instead of the Mahnhattan Clan, I agree.

Hey, maybe with Malibu and Delilah hooking up, I'll finally get to see beaked females in canon :P
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream"--Shirley Jackson
posted @ Sun, Jul 29, 2007 10:43:12 am EDT from 216.36.154.204

* POSSIBLE SPOILERS *

I think that what might have confused some of the readers was that Margot mistook Lexington's costume for a Tin Woodman costume. (I know that it took me a little while to realize, because of her comment, that it was a version of the cyborg look from "Future Tense".)

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Jul 29, 2007 7:35:02 am EDT from 4.244.208.173

Battle Beast, my condolences as a pet lover. I know how had that can be.
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Sun, Jul 29, 2007 2:11:50 am EDT from 68.202.76.113

SPOILERS

DEMONSKRYE> "My feeling is that Brooklyn's break from the Oz theme is kind of symbolic of how alienated he's feeling from his family right now, especially the happy couple."

I think this is a bit of a stretch. Angela and Broadway were the only one in Oz couples, and that was obviously a couple thing. Lex wasn't in an Oz costume, he was just a cyborg.

END SPOILERS
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 11:46:15 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Not that anyone likely noticed that I was gone, but I'm back! I had to stay away from the CR for a bit because I wasn't able to get my copy of "Bash" until last night and I wasn't able to read it until today. But now I'm all caught up and spoiler immune. So here's my thoughts:

YOU'LL SPOIL YOUR ISSUE #5

Cover> With the possible exception of issue #2, this is the best cover in the entire series. I've always prefered covers that were more issue-spcific than generic - on any comic, not just "Gargoyles". Covers like this make you say "WHOA! What's going on? I've gotta pick up this comic and find out!!"

Art> I haven't been deeply involved in the fandom for many years and I've never really kept up with many of the fan artists. But the positive side of that is that I don't have any bias in saying that Karine Charlebois's art is the best I've seen in the series so far. (And my husband was eqaully positive.) The storytelling is clea, the characters look consistant, and everything's just very, very solid. The issue starts out fine and just looks better as it continues. Huge kudos to Ms. Charlebois; I look forward to her work on "Bad Guys" without any concerns.

Story> One thing about these long continuing story arcs is that they sometimes take a while to completely pay off. I've enjoyed the pervious issues of the comic, but this is the one where I really feel like the series is hitting its stride. So many of the subplots from the previous issues have really started to bear fruit and while not everything has been resolved, I feel like the possibilities are really growing and I'm very happy with the direction the comic is taking.

Specific story points:

Brentwood> YES! Not that I'm thrilled from an "is this good for the characters" perspective that one of the clones decided to stay with Thailog. But I had actually been hoping that the clones might somehow split up. If we're going to start seeing them as individuals with free will, and separate personalities from the Manhattan clan, we need to see them start making real decisions. As Goliath points out, sometimes free will means the freedom to make a bad decision. It's also cool that the clones may end up playing out some of the more shocking aspects of "Future Tense".

Speaking of which, I was just joking around when I suggested Delilah and Malibu as a potential couple. Wasn't I? Aaaagh!!! Get out of my head, Weisman!! ; ) Though now that we're on the subject....

Delilah and Malibu?> I'm guessing Brooklyn's assesment of the situation is correct and these two will be the biological ancestors of Delilah 2198. This does bring up one of the downsides of the comics as opposed to a TV show. If we were garaunteed several months worth of half hour episodes, I would want to see ther relationship explored further, to figure out why they want to be together beyond very basic attraction. But as we're minited to a six issue per year comic, I'm not sure i want to take the time away from more mjor storylines.

Thailog the Bastard> More than just another example of stuff that couldn't be done on TV, I'm guessing Angela's particular insult for Thailog is a small joke on Thailog's status as both Goliath's "illegitimate son" and the archetypical bastard.

Brooklyn's Costume> I don't think I was the only one expecting a Scarecrow getup until people who had been to the Gathering said that wasn't the case. My feeling is that Brooklyn's break from the Oz theme is kind of symbolic of how alienated he's feeling from his family right now, especially the happy couple.

Illuminati> Though we don't yet know the true intentions of this secret society (which I'm fine, since we're still early on and it still is a secret), it's really nice to know even the little more we do about it. I like Quincy Hemings and I hope we get more of him in the future. I wonder how he's escaped notice remaining in the same place all these decades. It'll be interesting to see if Duval really is just one of the two second rankers (not that that's anything to sneeze at, especially when Xanatos knows of him by name) or if he's somehow concealling his true status. Interesting to note that, on a global scale, six hundred sixty-six member is not a very big secret society. I guess they count on a lot of non-members working for them without knowing that they are to get things done. So how many of the 36 thirty-sixes do we know?

Food for thought: we know of at least two characters who became Illuminati members within the course of the TV/comics series. (Castaway may be a third, but he could have been a member before we first met him.) If there are always 36 thirty sixes, what happened to the other two thirty-sixes when Matt and Thailog joined?

So Thailog doesn't just like to stab?> I appreaciated learning that Goliath is alive because Thailog didn't intend to kill him. Makes a lot more sense than "oops, I somehow missed making that wound fatal." It'll be interesting to see what comes of the DNA samples. Anyone got name suggestions for a Bronx clone?

Shari> Probably the biggest reveal of the book. I'm hesistant to put her in the "bad guy" camp quite yet. For all we know, the Illuminati could have given her orders to the effect of "keep an eye on this loose cannon gargoyle in our ranks and make sure he doesn't mess up our plans". I wonder how Thailog is gonna feel about having an employee who outranks him in the Illuminati. I'm also fairly certain we have more to learn about Shari given how coy Greg has been about revealing much of anything about her, even her name initally.

Hudson and Robbins> I'm trying to keep my comments to the major events. I'm leaving out Brendan's actions, Dr. Sato being introduced to the clan under difficulat circumstances, and the big reveal of Mary and Finella (maybe?). But i did have to make brief mention of this one quiet scene that I very much enjoyed. I've only seen one episode of TGC and it's not "Dying of the Light" (or "The Journey" unforunately), but I have read about the scene in that episodethat covers similar ground to this one. It make sense that Robbins would put two and two together once the news about gargoyles in Manhattan broke. I'm really hoping we see more interaction between these two, swapping stories of the old days. If we don't get a "Dark Ages" spin-off anytime soon, this would be a good format for us to learn about Hudson's mate.

All told, terrific issue! Bring on the yetis!!
Demonskrye
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 10:51:59 pm EDT from 209.6.249.41

Vicky82: hahaha you are right! Geez, what is these stupid new costume of making a movie and a few months later making a cartoon show?
Demon@
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 10:37:19 pm EDT from 24.232.131.111

I had to Put down one of my Pet Ferrets last night, and get her cremated. :'(

SPIDER MAN> I dunno. it looks too cartoony to me. I still like the spider man from the ninties from Fox. That was a great series! Why isn't it on DVD?
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 10:06:17 pm EDT from 142.59.132.201

So you can't recongnise one of the Transformers Bulkhead played by Bill Fagerbakke. He looks like Broadway if he was a Transformer.

http://tformers.com/article.php?sid=8189
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 6:18:57 pm EDT from 195.93.21.4

I would dearly love to be at SDCC this weekend. Some of my favourite artists are there, and the "Tracksuit Shayera" figure from JLU. Oh, well, at lest I can pay inflated prices for that last one.

Vicky82: A few Transformers can be recognized, but, like most TF shows it's going to be a reboot-with-some-similar-looking-characters. I'm still looking forward to TF: Heroes, if only because I want a Transformers series made in North America again.

Jurgan: Yeah, Avatar's a good show. Don't let its faux-anime look fool you: its tropes and character mannerisms are very Western in tone, and it's just a well-made, complex series. It hasn't grown on me quite as much as Gargoyles, however. It also seems that the producers have actually done some reasearch and drawn from many world mythologies instead of slapping giant, gliterry eyes on a fantasy cartoon and hoping it will sell better that way.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 5:40:21 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

Tony> Hacker put his ring on to identify himself as an Illuminatus, then he took it off. No need to keep it on. No point in belonging to a secret society if you walk around wearing its logo.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 12:05:47 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

*****Gargoyles #3 Spoiler*****

Any idea why Hacker takes off his ring when speaking to Xanatos?


***** End Spoiler *****
TiniTinyTony
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 12:02:25 pm EDT from 71.181.148.156

Here's the trailer for Spectacular Spider-Man:

http://enewsi.com/news.php?catid=194&itemid=11446

And here's an article on the panel:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=11366

The more I hear, the more I'm looking forward to it.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 10:48:38 am EDT from 67.87.175.245

Brigadoon Traveller> Nice review there. I agree with all points.

Off-topic> How well has everyone else (when they have the time to do so) been 'spreading the word'?

I've been telling people about it. Posted flyers at a comic shop (and probably will at a local RPG gaming shop) and put some up around the local college campus yesterday with Vid The Kid.

How about you guys?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 9:51:01 am EDT from 69.95.196.83

Tried posting this last night, but connection failed so I'll try now. Here's my review for #5 from AskGreg.

***************************SPOILERS BELOW*************************
Gargoyles #5: Bash

First off I have to say how spectacular the artwork is looking in this issue; usually I have no problem with the art and actually quite like Hedgcock's work - but Karine Chalebois' experience of the characters certainly shines in what has to be the best looking issue to date! It's not perfect, some of the characters look quite stiff at times (a minor, trivial annoyance in comparison), but there are some scenes which literally shine off the page. I love the view Brendan has of the gargoyles fighting, Thailog and Brentwood gliding off from the Eyrie look spectacular, and Delilah really looks gorgeous as she shines out as her own gargoyle. This issue has made me all the more excited for Bad Guys; with artwork like this hopefully the series will blossom.

Greg Guler and Steph Lostimolo bring us another spectacular cover; I know there was some controversy when this cover was first revealed - I can understand now why Greg was disappointed that it got leaked out. Nonetheless it is a beautiful looking peice of art.

But let's get back to the Bash - this issue brings an end to the first all new canon 'episode' and nicely wraps up the story in 3, 4 and 5 whilst setting up even more intriguing questions for future issues.

Side points that really shone out:

There's a couple of familiar faces waiting for us outside the lift; seeing Mary and Finella makes me all the more impatient for Timedancer.

Super-goyle: Brooklyn coming out of the elevator like that really made me chuckle - loved it!

The action scenes - this issue was jam packed with action, so much so that I forgot that Thailog's was waiting for Delilah.

Brentwood - Now that was a surprise! I really thought that he would be the one to rebel against his master, but more on that later.

Now onto the story:

One con about getting the comic a week after everyone else is that the internet is a minefield of spoilers. Despite my best efforts to avoid spoiling the story I somehow found out that Delilah didn't choose Thailog and that Thailog's real goal in attacking was to obtain DNA from the gargoyles.

This latter revelation disappointed me before I'd even got the comic- why? When I heard DNA I thought more clones all over again - which didn't make sense. Thailog already had minions which listen to his beck and call why make more? I didn't understand it. I still don't really.

But as I thought about it (after I actually read the story) I became intrigued. What does Thailog actually want with DNA of the clan? What more could Sevarius do with gargoyle DNA that he hasn't done already (aside from Voodoo magic)? And I'm sure Thailog being a member of the Illuminati (which was a shock of sheer genius) complicates the matter even further. I suppose I'll just have to wait for the rest of Clan Building (and hopefully the rest of season 3) for all of this to be answered. But I have to say I'm intrigued, even excited. And as for Shari, well, she's certainly full of surprises - a number 9! Greg you certainly know how to leave us begging for more! So Shari, the mysterious unnamed woman who's been hanging around in the Labyrinth, is now Thailog's new executive assistant and outranks him as a fellow Illuminatus. And what exactly do the Illuminati want with the gargoyles?

Speaking of the Illuminati, we're certainly learning a lot more about them; Duval is actually no. 2 alongside Quincy Hemings. Who is number 1 then? Hmmm…

So the greeting that started off as 36 : 32 and ended as 36 : 9 is actually a ranking system; with thirty-six 36s, thirty-five 35s, all the way up to two 2s and one 1 that leads up to 666 members!

The Illuminati are certainly turning into the big players of this season, with their fingers in almost all the pots; financing the Quarrymen, overviewing the taskforce, a high ranking member is now working for Thailog, and now they're sending Xanatos on secret missions. These guys are really coming out to the forefront dominating the entire scene from behind the curtains.

Enough of secret societies; lets talk clones again.

One interesting thing about Bash is that the clones, especially Delilah, really come out of their shells.

Delilah: One interesting point was Owen finding her standing around in Xanatos' lab. Wonder what she was doing in there.

I was actually surprised by her language skills; they seem to be a lot better than that of the other clones.

"Is that an order, Angela? Or am I truly free to make my own choices?"

I said that I unfortunately knew already from spoilers that Delilah didn't go with Thailog. So when I first read Delilah say "I believe this fighting may cease now" I thought that she was going to spurt something cheesy to Thailog about him attacking her "friends" so she isn't going to go with him. But to my surprise and delight she makes the above retort to Angela. And after that she starts digging into a wounded Goliath.

"You used me!"

Wow! Not only had she been secretly listening to Goliath and Elisa's heart to heart from the previous issue, but she now reproaches Goliath for bringing her to Xanatos' Masque Ball. Her general attitude towards the Manhattan clan seems to be one of a cold unconcerned frigidity; her short responses to Goliath's proposal in "Invitation Only" at first seems as if she is only acting under her 'Obey Thailog' instincts. And throughout "Masque" she seems quiet and unresponsive; she doesn't stand out. It's only in response to seeing her "brothers" in trouble that she comes out of herself. At first I thought her command to stop the fighting was addressed to Thailog, but I'm now starting to think as to whether she was also addressing the Manhattan gargoyles who she feels are attacking her brothers.

Now onto her brothers;

Malibu: Well he's certainly Brooklyn's clone; this green gargoyle's smitten with Delilah and I think the main reason he stopped fighting is because Delilah arrived and suggested leaving for the labyrinth.

Hollywood: Gar-girl (lol!) that's all I'm going to say!

Brentwood: This guy is turning into a real character! Interestingly he takes a passive role in the fighting and just sits on the sidelines watching. From his constant utterances of "free-will" on Maggie's prompting I was thinking that if anyone would leave Thailog to join the side of the Angels, it would be this guy. I'm going to be following his character development with great interest (hopefully it'll involve gaining better diction and vocabulary). "Thailog smart."

"Dude, you're really making me look bad!"

Lex's reaction though is priceless, but still quite shocking. I feel sorry for the clones at times; these poor souls compelled by their master to attack their "parents" who then later shun them making them live in the underground sewers. Lex doesn't seem concerned that his clone is aligning with the "bad guy" but rather that Brentwood's choice plays badly upon himself.

The Manhattan clan wanted nothing to do with their clones originally; but I feel this only helped to bring this band of misfits even closer. And maybe this abandonment helps explain Delilah's coldness to Goliath's clan. Last time they met she was beaten and chained by Angela; her brothers also beaten and then the five of them are taken in by Talon.

Delilah shines out as the more astute and most intellectually developed and as thus stands out as their natural leader. The other clones seem like children in comparison - "Labyrinth good", "Hollywood not fight" - and in turn Delilah seems to have picked up the 'big sister' role. I think this clan's development is going to be interesting.

Thailog and Sevarius interestingly rendezvous at Nightstone. One thing that struck me when Thailog attacked the Labyrinth to collect his "property" - this is the gargoyle that swindled Xanatos of $20 million and tried to kill Demona and Macbeth only to obtain their fortunes, why would his first course of action upon resurfacing be to collect his minions? He had invested millions into Nightstone and I thought his primary goal would have been to recover his company from Demona. Surprisingly (this issue is full of surprises) it seems Thailog doesn't think he needs to take back Nightstone hostilely; it's obviously more profitable to bankroll Sevarius behind Demona's back.

*************SPOILERS************

On the whole a fantastic issue. 5/5!
Brigadoon Traveller
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 6:09:15 am EDT from 84.13.98.31

Jurgan: I agree about "Avatar: The Last Airbender". If you haven't checked out the show, give it a chance. It isn't quite Gargoyles, but is a great story-and well animated. Great news about the date. Strange that the release date for Book 3, volume 1 on DVD came out before we knew the air date(The release date for that DVD is Oct. 31). BTW, if you wanna see Aang with hair-click my name for the cover art.
Wingless
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 5:03:29 am EDT from 74.115.187.62

Sorry for the double post, but any word on The Spectacular Spider-Man? Greg's panel was today, and there was supposed to be a big announcement, and I'm eager for news. As I told some friends of mine at dinner tonight: "The guy who made Gargoyles is working with Spider-Man; I'm in heaven."
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
"Thailog smart!" -Thom Adcox, as Brentwood
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 4:48:34 am EDT from 68.58.255.133

Stephen: There was an announcement about Avatar: The Last Airbender made already. Season 3 premieres on September 21. It was originally scheduled for last March, but better late than never. If anyone hasn't seen Avatar, you should definitely check it out. IMHO, it's probably the best American animated action series since Gargoyles.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
"Thailog smart!" -Thom Adcox, as Brentwood
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 4:47:07 am EDT from 68.58.255.133

I found this picture for the new Transformers cartoon.

http://tformers.com/article.php?sid=8189

Who can you recognise from the picture
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 4:26:06 am EDT from 195.93.21.4

That it good news about Marion. She was the least annoying of all the Indy women.
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
"I wasn't born yesterday, you know - I've seen movies." - Master Shake
posted @ Sat, Jul 28, 2007 12:57:22 am EDT from 71.173.57.59

The best announcement I've heard so far out of SDCC is that Karen Allen will be back as Marion Ravenwood in the new Indiana Jones movie that's recently started filming.

336 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Asps. Very dangerous. You go first." - Sallah, "Raiders of the Lost Ark"
posted @ Fri, Jul 27, 2007 5:38:29 pm EDT from 68.76.120.81

Here's hoping everyone at SDCC has a good time. Aside from Greg and the SLG people, I know some of my DA friends who are there for news of Avatar: The Last Airbender's 3rd Season.

Makes me grumpy that I live in Florida. :(

In any case, my family is headed off to Orlando to celebrate my niece's 7th birthday. Will see everyone after Sunday!
Stephen Sobotka Jr
"If you love the house, you must love the crow on it." -- Chinese Proverb.
posted @ Fri, Jul 27, 2007 2:57:42 pm EDT from 71.99.209.73

Battle Beast!!!

There was one "Hound of Ulster" print left over after the Gathering, and I just got it back. It's #3 of 3. Drop me an email if you're still interested. ^_^
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail]
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - R.E. Howard
posted @ Fri, Jul 27, 2007 10:51:14 am EDT from 76.170.207.129

Ethan> You also don't have the typical male body type. You're very slender, so of course it's easier for you. ;P
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jul 27, 2007 9:00:48 am EDT from 199.38.51.134

Heads up! Tomorrow afternoon, Greg Weisman sits on a panel at ComicCon to discuss the upcoming series The Spectacular Spider-man, which he will be producing. Now, I'm nowhere near California, but if anyone is there and picks up some tidbits, please pass them on. In the meantime, if you get G4 TV, they're devoting a good bit of time to covering ComicCon. I believe the first block starts tomorrow night at 7:00. So I'll be tuning in to see if Spider-man gets any discussion.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
"Thailog smart!" -Thom Adcox, as Brentwood
posted @ Fri, Jul 27, 2007 5:28:26 am EDT from 68.58.255.133

Anyone here see Who Wants To Be A Superhero? I missed most of the first season, but I did pick up the comic book tie in. So far the current season seems to be fun. Who knows, they make a few more seasons they could try a Justice League style comic with all the winners.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jul 27, 2007 3:50:51 am EDT from 71.115.195.228

Oh I don't know about not being able to adapt as well as a woman. I had no problem tooling around in my 10" platforms. =) Just saying.
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society
posted @ Fri, Jul 27, 2007 2:30:50 am EDT from 66.56.6.148

Another addendum. Apologies...

Incisivis--"I'll have to decide what to do about it when I draw some gargoyles, though..."

It's deceptively simple, really... Use your best judgment, and ask yourself simple questions like "Does the character look off balance in this pose? If yes, what can I do to make him/her NOT look off balance? If it looks balanced, why does it look balanced?" Learn what works and doesn't work on paper. Try walking around in high heels or on your tippy-toes. Try it while wearing a backpack full of books, to simulate the weight of wings on your back. Observe how your own body reacts or changes in posture in order to compensate for the shift in weight, and try to apply that to your drawings. :)
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail]
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - R.E. Howard
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 11:50:24 pm EDT from 76.170.207.129

We're also talking about ONE still shot. Even on model sheets. Artistic license must also be taken into account and weighed against the basic rules of human(oid) anatomy and physics.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail]
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - R.E. Howard
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 11:44:39 pm EDT from 76.170.207.129

"Also compare average woman in heels with average man in heels: it generally is much harder for the man to adapt his walking style, for some of the same reasons."

Which is why I decided against the 4" pumps when I cosplayed as Anastasia Renard at the Gathering 2003. :P
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"I'm much more in the executive transvestite area. Travel the world, yes, it's much more executive... It's a lot wider community, more wide than you'd think." - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 11:07:14 pm EDT from 66.72.195.231

Incisivis> I don't think the females would have that much of a problem, no. Their upper bodies are smaller than the males' (and thus weigh less), and their lower center of gravity allows them to walk with straighter legs. Also compare average woman in heels with average man in heels: it generally is much harder for the man to adapt his walking style, for some of the same reasons.

I think it might also make the females have shorter strides, but I'm not sure about that.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 10:38:33 pm EDT from 24.98.74.35

Female gargoyles have their legs bent as well. In little ocasions they have it "straight".
Demon@
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 10:23:57 pm EDT from 24.232.131.111

All right.

The difference in the model sheet images still look wrong to me, but now I can understand that there might be some reasoning behind it, and it works better with the actual moving animation. I'll have to decide what to do about it when I draw some gargoyles, though...
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 10:11:11 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

Incisivis-- That's still a single, stillshot you're drawing your comparisson from. Seriously? The only fundamental difference between male and female gargoyle legs is just that--male and female. Otherwise, they're structurally identical.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail]
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - R.E. Howard
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 8:25:41 pm EDT from 204.248.181.1

Kerry and Kythera: I never expected to get a possible explanation for that. Huh. Interesting.

So...are you saying that female gargoyles, if they were walking from a stance where they had reasonably had "straight" legs, would not have difficulties equivalent to a woman in high heels? Because that's what bothered me the most about the design difference: I'd have thought that creatures with digitigrade feet should not have humanlike legs to work with. The same reason why superheroines shouldn't wear high heels to go crimefighting.

I'm not really sure if that stance difference is "canon" or not, though. It's something I've seen on the official model sheets (see Goliath and Demona on the S8 opening page), but that the animation isn't consistent on, even when the characters are in an "at rest" stance.

Comic pricing doesn't bother me, though: I'm worried enough about the series tanking, and I enjoy Gargoyles enough, that I'll pay it...and it's higher up here in Canada, don't forget.

I'm looking forward to "Bad Guys", too.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 7:25:10 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

Cover Price: I would imagine the price has more to do with economies of scale than paying the artists a non-eye-watering wage. If 'Bad Guys' were being cranked out in similar volumes to 'Amazing Spider-Man' or what have you, the costs would probably be very different. In any event, it's in all our interests for the comics to be as profitable as possible and it's also in all our interests for the artists to be able to afford to spend time working on the art rather than needing to seek other work. If bumping up the cover price makes these two things possible, I'm happy with that.



***SPOILERS***


My review of #5, as on Ask Greg.

I really, really hope the other colourists on the comic take note of Stephanie's colours here. One of the big issues in "Awakening" was the colour and beauty of the city and this is the first time that I've felt the comic has really conveyed that to full effect. The colours on the comic have been good so far, and obviously the darker shades are more intuitive for a comic of this nature, but this issue really captures the feel of the series.

Obviously a big part of that is the tag-team with Kanthara's line-art. And I think you really see the benefit of having people on the art who have a long experience with the series, from little things -- check out the moon, just like the series! -- to the real meat of the story: the characters. Odd things like Brooklyn's superhero pose, the Lex/Brentwood panel really nail the essence of the characters, their movements, the way they carry themselves. All the star characters look amazing, the battle sequences, the cityscapes... a real joy. Smashing work by Kanthara and Stephanie.

Greg B mentioned that the 'Gargoyles' and spin-off art teams would be better off switched around and I do tend to agree. Kanthara rocks the core characters but is on the spin-off book charting new territory in the universe. David Hedgecock is the fresh eye but he's in the shadow of the original series which entrenched a very specific vision of these main guys in our mind. It seems counterintuitive. But I rate both artists and I'm really excited by the prospect of seeing their work on alternate months.

Script-wise, I enjoy the focus on a major narrative strand at last. I found #4 highly entertaining but with so many different things happening, no single plot seemed to have something big happening. This issue has much more momentum and while I love the expansive universe, I hope most stories won't have quite so many separate subplots.

Observations: -

- The clones seem to have characteristics of their 'parents' and it's fun to see how a few lines kind of sets them apart from each other. Brentwood has Lexington's appreciation for intelligence and perhaps some of his capacity for hero worship. Hollywood seemed to enjoy 'playing monster' ("ROOOARR") rather than being genuinely villainous; he's also the only clone who specifically says he wants to not fight. Malibu has Brooklyn's weakness for women, and seems to follow Delilah as keenly as Brooklyn briefly followed Demona. Actually the Clone-Trio's stories here remind me a lot of moments from 'Deadly Force'. Lex falls in with the Pack; Brentwood falls in with Thailog. Brooklyn is starstruck by Demona; Malibu by Delilah. Broadway plays with a gun; Hollywood plays monster. Hard to tell much about Burbank except that he seems to have Hudson's love of the home -- he latches onto the idea of the Labyrinth specifically.

- "I wouldn't want to inhibit you, dear boy" -- great line.

- Thailog in the Illuminati will be very interesting. I wonder how fast our four 36es will climb the pyramid... especially Thailog and Xanatos.

- Thailog doesn't want Goliath dead. Which isn't a big surprise thinking about it (even in "Double Jeopardy", the planned murder wasn't the main aim, and he's already seen the benefit in Sevarius), but shows his Xanatosian strategist side is alive and well.

- Picking up some earlier Ask Greg comments by Alex and Greg, the slight hypocrisy in the clan's treatment of the clones fascinates me. They boss them around, call them "stupid clone!" and "forgery" and "bastard" (admittedly two of these to Thailog where their disgust is quite justified). But the gargoyles are seen to have 'attacked' the city and the people of NY are lashing out at them, calling them monsters, inhuman, without emotions. But outside Goliath croaking Delilah's name, none of the clones are addressed by name, or even shown any warmth or respect. Lex can't even look Brentwood in the eye at the end, he's more worried about his own standing with the clan. They seek tolerance, but don't offer it to the clones in a meaningful way.

- I like the Xanatosian plan-within-a-plan ending but it does mean that, at the end, this story turns out to be a bit of a cue-chalker for Thailog and Xanatos. Where's this going? Suspense!

- In #3, Hacker said that Duval went to a lot of trouble to arrange the meeting at the White House -- but now we find that it's Duval's equal he's talking to. I can see inviting a couple of ex-cons to a White House party might be politically risky, but I wonder if it was more of a comment on the relationship between the two Twos.


The Silver Bullet Review: I actually agree that #1-2 is the better story. I love #3-5 and it's new and shiny and exciting, but I think looking at both as objectively as I can, #1-2 is tighter, more momentous, just a bit better. I find prejudice a more interesting theme than the masks, and I find the Quarrymen (ignoring their TGC depiction) to be more interesting and scary than Thailog (though I love the Illuminati). I also think #1-2 is more accessible as a story because the cast is smaller (though still very large) and mostly divided into 'citizens', 'Quarrymen' (who have the instant-gotcha of the KKK hoods) and 'media'. #3-5 sprawls everywhere with the Labyrinth and Jason and Talon and the clones and the White House etc. etc.

*** SPOILERS ABOVE! ***
Ed Reynolds
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 6:56:46 pm EDT from 213.187.38.211

* SPOILERS FOR #5 *

A thought that I just had today. Could Greg Weisman have chosen "Hemings" for Quincy's surname as an allusion to Sally Hemings? (I thought that it sounded familiar, but it wasn't until today that I remembered her and realized why it seemed familiar to me.) It would certainly make sense.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 6:13:37 pm EDT from 4.244.213.32

***** SPOILER *****


Brooklyn and Demona mated in the Future Tense story, so if we're not reading too much into it, then so are their clones (Malibu and Delilah). Much like how Brentwood's actions mirror Future Tense Lexington.



***** SPOILER *****
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 5:13:04 pm EDT from 71.115.195.228

***Spoiler***
I don't see the connection between Gargoyles #5 and "Future Tense".
***End***
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
Content makes poor men rich; discontentment makes rich men poor.
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 4:55:32 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

***** SPOILER *****


As noted by many comments, it seems there might be a possibility of a relationship between Delilah and Malibu. The comments on #5 made a point that it could be another echo of Future Tense. Anyone else other consider that? Cause I sure didn't.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 4:51:57 pm EDT from 71.115.195.228

I don't buy comics regularly. I noticed that our color comics have been $3.50 apiece so far and hearing about how black & white comics are cheapier to produce, I thought the price for a Bad Guys comic would end up being slightly less. If that's industry standard pricing, then I have no qualms.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 4:45:07 pm EDT from 71.29.243.231

According to Greg B, 'Bad Guys' was given a 3/4th page ad in Previews.

Greg, I'm assuming you're referring to the August '07 PREVIEWS that went on sale July 25?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
Content makes poor men rich; discontentment makes rich men poor.
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 4:11:45 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

I saw The Simpsons Movie and Transformers today (both come out the same week which was pretty stupid. I enjoyed The Simpsons it was funny but I felt I was watching a episode. Then I saw Transformers and I loved it best film I've seen this year. I got to see it again
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 4:11:30 pm EDT from 195.93.21.4

Where's the link to the Bad Guys preview again?
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 2:39:35 pm EDT from 71.115.195.228

Kythera> I agree. It's likely that because of their comparatively large upper body mass, the males are much more balanced keeping their knees bent. The higher the weight is carried, the more work the body has to do to keep it from falling over. As women who've had to learn to walk in heels have found, even inches matter in that regard, and male gargoyles might be lowering their relative height by as much as a couple of feet.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 12:00:59 pm EDT from 199.38.51.134

Sorry for the double post... ^_^;

Incisivis-- "...is that the female gargoyles...have a different leg structure than the males, "straight" legs instead of "bent" legs."

I disagree. I highly doubt it's a different leg structure so much as a difference in how they carry their weight. Male and female humans have a different center of gravity. I wager the same is equally true for gargoyles. Factor in the size and bulk of wings, horns, spikes, tail, body mass...I'm sure it has everything to do with individuals changing their posture as necessary to distribute their weight to maintain their balance while standing, rather than the seperate genders of a species having completely different leg structures.
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail]
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - R.E. Howard
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 11:08:50 am EDT from 76.170.207.129

dph-- "Is that the price it will take to get good talent to work on a black & white gargoyle comic?"

I'm guessing you aren't one who reads comics regularly. ^_- The average price of a comic book these days is in the range of $2.95-$4.99, depending on the page count of the book. Let me pull some of my regular books off the shelf...

X-Men #201...$2.99
Frank Frazetta's Death Dealer #2 of 6...$3.99
Conan #42...$2.99
Red Sonja #23...$2.99
Savage Tales #2 (Savage Tales is beefy at 48 page)...$4.99
Hack/Slash: The Series...$3.50
Tank Girl: The Gifting #2...$3.99
Kade: Son of Perdition #2 of 6...$3.95

All of those are full color. Slightly varying page counts. Kade has glossy cardstock covers. Tank Girl has cardstock covers. The farther down the list you get, the more indie the publisher.

Nope, we're getting about average price for a small publisher like SLG. However, I think the proverbial proof-in-the-puddding is how much THEY are paying the ARTISTS. I've heard it's not much more than minimum wage, if you break it down time-wise (unless you can completely finish a single comic page in one or two hours...then it might be a decent wage). SLG, I've noticed, seems to live up to their name.

Seriously? If we want good art on the book, I think it behooves us write to SLG and RAVE and COPIOUSLY PRAISE how good and professional Gargs #5 looked (don't rag on the other issues; whining tends to get ignored, and the SLG EiC already looks down her nose at our fandom, based on her responses to us in the past).
Kythera of Anevern - [kythera (at) gmail]
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - R.E. Howard
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 11:01:38 am EDT from 76.170.207.129

DPH> Um, I'm not sure if I understand your question. Care to clarify?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 10:21:14 am EDT from 67.87.175.245

Credit where credit is due, Incisivis... the colouring was done by Stephanie Lostimolo.

But thank you.
Kanthara - [kanthara at gmail dot com]
"Gargoyles #5? What is it with that issue? Everybody wants it!" - Ray, comic book guy at Astro in Montreal
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 9:40:01 am EDT from 24.37.76.93

"Bad Guys" was the projected spin-off that interested me the least, but it's still set in the Gargoyles Universe - and Karline's art is definitely going to be an incentive. (Another reason why I'm planning on subscribing to it is that the better it does, the more likely it is we'll get the "Pendragon" spin-off the following year.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 8:28:05 am EDT from 4.244.211.158

So far, there hasn't been an Issue I wouldn't pay $3.50 for... as evidenced by the fact that I did pay for all the Issues I've bought. I swear.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!" -Macbeth
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 7:10:38 am EDT from 24.207.163.239

I love waking up to the sound of birds in the comment room... "Cheap, cheap, cheap!"

$3.50 for "Bad Guys" seems a fair price to me. I'd happily pay even more for "Gargoyles" in full color if every issue was going to look like #5.

337 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"God dammit, Loch Ness Monster, I ain't gonna give you no tree fiddy!" - South Park
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 6:54:17 am EDT from 67.38.240.141

gxb - 1 question: Is that the price it will take to get good talent to work on a black & white gargoyle comic?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 6:04:31 am EDT from 71.29.243.231

*chirp chirp chirp*
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
It's silly. It's a silly movie. There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?- George Lucas on Spider-Man 3
posted @ Thu, Jul 26, 2007 5:58:23 am EDT from 69.54.209.77

Greg W. - No SLG Comic Con signings for Lostimolo? ... interesting. Anyway, see you there!
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<--- pre-register for Gathering 2008 in CHICAGO!]
"Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" -- Albus Dumbledore
posted @ Wed, Jul 25, 2007 6:40:02 pm EDT from 198.176.189.201

The slash writes itself. =P
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society
posted @ Wed, Jul 25, 2007 6:09:33 pm EDT from 66.56.6.148

Greg B> Sweet!

Ya know the cool thing about Bad Guys in my mind, and the thing I'm most excited to watch, is the relationships. Unlike our beloved Manhattan Clan, which really is a family, the Redemption Squad is this bunch of rebels thrown into the mix together. And the particular casting of it is so much fun.
In particular, I'm looking forward to the Hunter-Yama, Hunter-Dingo, Yama-Fang relationships.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!" -Macbeth
posted @ Wed, Jul 25, 2007 6:06:15 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Greg B.> Is it on GargWiki? And, if not, do you have the URL? Thanks. :)

Tony> Sounds like a connection error. It happens to everyone at some point.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Ignore Me!' - Venture Bros.
posted @ Wed, Jul 25, 2007 5:47:36 pm EDT from 69.95.31.4

GARGOYLES: BAD GUYS #1
by Greg Weisman & Karine Charlebois
Take five of the toughest villains in the Gargoyles Universe - Hunter, Scottish gargoyle-slayer; Dingo, Australian mercenary; Matrix, nanotech hive-mind; Yama, Japanese gargoyle; and Fang, mutate - and force them to work on the side of the angels. It may be hard to believe, but these Bad Guys are the best hope we've got! Bad Guys: time to fight fire with fire!
24pgs, B&W ............................................... $3.50

They've even given it a 3/4th a page ad in Previews.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Wed, Jul 25, 2007 5:16:56 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

No, for some reason my IE browser said "Page Could Not Be Displayed". I don't know. I was able to get on other sites, just not this one. Weird fluke I guess.
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
Content makes poor men rich; discontentment makes rich men poor.
posted @ Wed, Jul 25, 2007 4:48:46 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

Tony> I don't believe it was.

Maybe you had trouble with the 'enter code' thing at the bottom?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Jul 25, 2007 3:34:07 pm EDT from 69.95.28.34

Anyone have trouble logging onto this site today? I couldn't get on all morning. Was the site down for repairs?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
Content makes poor men rich; discontentment makes rich men poor.
posted @ Wed, Jul 25, 2007 3:15:27 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

*pokes his head in*

Hello?

*hears nothing but crickets and decides he'll return later.*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Jul 25, 2007 2:36:20 pm EDT from 69.95.28.34

Greg W> Wow, I did not know "Cheeks" Galloway was the series character designer. I love his work and style. Pity I can't check it out. Have fun and good luck!
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Jul 25, 2007 10:36:22 am EDT from 66.168.218.251

San Diego Comic-Con

Hey intrepid-ones! I will be attending Comic-Con in San Diego. I'll be in town from Wednesday July 25 - Sunday July 29, 2007...

What follows is my schedule. Please stop by. Say hello. Introduce yourself or reintroduce yourself. Come here me pontificate endlessly (until time runs out). Etc.

THURSDAY, JULY 26, 2007
*1:30pm - 2:30pm - Gargoyles Signing
SLG Booth - Come purchase Gargoyles Comic Books at the SLG Booth and get them signed by myself and artist David Hedgecock!

FRIDAY, JULY 27, 2007
*12:45pm - 1:45pm - The Spectacular Spider-Man Panel
Rooms 6CDEF - Come hear all we're willing to tell and see the first footage from the new Spider-Man television series coming in early 2008 to the KidsWB.
Also on the panel, Supervising Director/Producer Vic Cook, Character Designer Sean "Cheeks" Galloway, Voice of Spider-Man/Peter Parker Josh Keaton, Marvel Exec VP Craig Kyle, Sony Exec Michael Vogel

*2:15pm - 2:55pm - Spider-Man Signing
Marvel Booth - Get free Spider-Man posters and get them signed by myself, Vic, Cheeks and Josh!

*5:30pm - 6:30pm - Gargoyles Signing
SLG Booth - Come purchase Gargoyles Comic Books at the SLG Booth and get them signed by myself and artist David Hedgecock!

SATURDAY, JULY 28, 2007
*12:00pm - 1:30pm - Spider-Man Signing
Sony Booth - Get free Spider-Man posters and get them signed by myself, Vic, Cheeks and Josh!

*1:30pm - 3:00pm - Gargoyles Signing
SLG Booth - Come purchase Gargoyles Comic Books (including the new issue #5) at the SLG Booth and get them signed by myself and artist David Hedgecock!

*5:00pm - 6:00pm - Gargoyles Signing
SLG Booth - Come purchase Gargoyles Comic Books at the SLG Booth and get them signed by myself and artist David Hedgecock!

*6:30pm - 7:30pm - The Animation Production Process Panel
Rm 3 - What goes into bringing an animated script to screen? Producers Stephanie Graziano (X-Men: The Animated Series), Tad Stones (Hellboy Animated: Sword of Storms), and Greg Weisman (Spectacular Spider- Man) take you behind the scenes and into the trenches. Moderated by Shannon Muir (Invader Zim), author of Gardner's Guide to Writing and Producing Animation from GGC, and currently project management coordinator at Animation World Network.

SUNDAY, JULY 29, 2007
*1:30pm - 3:00pm - Gargoyles Signing
SLG Booth - Come purchase Gargoyles Comic Books at the SLG Booth and get them signed by myself and artist David Hedgecock!
Greg Weisman
Zach Baker is a Jeopardy GOD!
posted @ Wed, Jul 25, 2007 3:13:40 am EDT from 68.183.95.134

They do air it now. I believe they first aired it as part of a Gargoyle marathon, then on ABC Family and finally on a regular basis on Toon Disney.

The TD and ABC Family version zooms in on Elisa's face so we don't see the blood.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 24, 2007 7:28:09 pm EDT from 71.115.195.228

"Deadly Force" was aired when it first came out. It was Toon Disney who refused to air it for several years. I think they air it now, but I'm not sure.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Tue, Jul 24, 2007 4:04:39 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

As i understand it, deadly force wasnt aired when it first come out. Too graphic, i guess. But in the comics you have more freedom with what you can and cannot show
Demon@
posted @ Tue, Jul 24, 2007 4:01:26 pm EDT from 24.232.131.111

*******************Spoiler**********************************

I know that there was a little bit of blood in the Gargoyles Cartoon Seeing Elisa (Deadly force)bleeding and Goliath hurt his hand in Awakening part 1 but I do find it wierd seeing all the other Gargoyles bleeding from Thailog slashing them with his blade.

I think it might be that I am so used to the cartoon that The Gargoyles (except Elisa and Goliath) injuries were just bruises and few broken bones.

*************************End Spoilers***********************

Hope you know what I mean, not very good at explaining things
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 24, 2007 3:49:11 pm EDT from 195.93.21.4

Wingless> Thanks. I'm not the one who needs it, (As I've already bought my copy) but I'll email him and tell him to order it from there instead.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 24, 2007 3:42:38 pm EDT from 69.95.29.42

KingCobra_582 - I was frustrated with the lack of updates at the SLG site. Apparently, they're all going(comics in tow) to Comic-Con and won't be doing any updates to the site OR filling orders until the beginning of August.
I think this is a sad way to run a business(As I said before, why have a release date on the 18th if your main site isn't going to carry the damn thing for 2 1/2 weeks!). Anyway, if you want the details, click my name.

In the meantime, you can do what Greg B suggested(and I did myself) is order from Midtown Comics www.midtowncomics.com. My order just shipped out from them today.

Hope that helps.
Wingless
posted @ Tue, Jul 24, 2007 3:38:13 pm EDT from 74.115.187.62

Vicky82> I don't really see Demona giving up her position w/o a fight. And I really don't think there was enough time for that conflict inbetween Hunter's Moon III and where the comic is now, timeline-wise.

Slightly Off-topic> Has the SLG website been updated yet? Storyseeker can't find it (#5) on there, and I want to try to help him out if it has. Thanks.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 24, 2007 3:15:58 pm EDT from 69.95.29.42

I got Issue 5 today and I love it, love the artwork.

**********************Spoilers******************************

Party still going on and see a couple of old faces Dr Sato (from Deadly Force) and Mary and Finella (From Avalon part 1). Angela still looks pissed off at Elisa and worried about Goliath.
Love Brooklyn Costume, SuperGoyle.
I don't know what shocked me more, Goliath getting stabbed or that Angela called Thailog a Bastard. I had a feeling their would be bad word at some point but not from Angela.
Angela and Broadway both try to attack Thailog but both get slashed by Thailogs blades. Then the clones attack, Hollywood after Angela, Burbank after Broadway and Malibu after Lex.
Thailog Slashes Lexington, then Brooklyn and Elisa turn up who also get slashed by Thailog.
Hudson and Bronx return from Jeffery Robbins Place, who knows that Hudson is a Gargoyle. They also get injured by Thailog.
The fight ends when Deliah turns up (who was found by Owen in the Lab)talks about free will and how she was used by Thailog and Goliath and wants to stay in the Labyrinth along with Malibu, Hollywood and Burbank but Brentwood (Who just stood there) sticks with Thailog, and they both leave.
Dr Sato arrives to help Goliath.
Elisa (who's in tears, something we haven't seen since Metamorphosis)kisses Goliath and both say I love You.
Thailogs at Nightstone giving DNA samples to Sevarius. Then Shari (girl from the Labyrinth) turns up wanting to be Thailogs new executive assistant. The big shock at the end that they both with the Illuminati with Thailog no 36 and Shari no 9.

What a brilliant issue i'm giving it 10/10

One thing to point out if Thailog is at Nightstone does Demona still work there, as they hate each other.

*****************END SPOILERS*******************************
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 24, 2007 9:39:22 am EDT from 195.93.21.4

Saw one of the latest Ask Greg questions was about the Goliath costume at Disney World and what does it look like. Well, I hit up webshots.com and after a quick search found these two photos:

http://image05.webshots.com/5/7/87/92/66278792PKqDGt_fs.jpg
http://image04.webshots.com/4/6/92/46/52669246ZZLyqP_fs.jpg

Hope that helps.
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Tue, Jul 24, 2007 8:31:59 am EDT from 207.206.247.225

Just a minor thought/question that came to mind after reading the end of Last Week's Comments.

If Hakon, Demona and Brooklyn didn't take out the pages from the Grimorum, would Archmage+ been anymore powerful or smarter. You know with more spells and all? Just something I had kicking around in my mind occasionally.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 24, 2007 3:04:07 am EDT from 71.115.195.228

Jurgan> I totally agree, and I think I'm going to start any summary/description of Thailog as Goliath's bastard son instead of saying he's Goliath's clone. It's more accurate in so many ways, and adds more levels than simply being a clone, as has been stated earlier. That, and I like saying the word, one of my fav words. :p
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 10:59:48 pm EDT from 66.168.218.251

Afraid I can't take credit there, Todd. Greg's said a number of times that "the bastard" is one of his favorite literary archetypes, and that Thailog was an example of it.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
"Thailog smart!" -Thom Adcox, as Brentwood
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 10:23:38 pm EDT from 68.58.255.133

Sorry for the double post, but, I like your comment, Jurgan, about Thailog being Goliath's "bastard son" (or as close to a bastard son as you could get under S&P). It reminds me of how Greg Weisman once mentioned that Edmund in "King Lear" was his favorite Shakespearean character, and I quickly found myself thinking of Thailog and wondering if there was some connection there.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 9:20:26 pm EDT from 4.244.209.164

I think, though, that Thailog's being Goliath's clone and physically resembling him (though with different coloring) helps make him all the more unsettling, because he's almost the exact opposite of Goliath in character. You've got a figure with a similar appearance and a similar voice, but where Goliath has the virtues and failings of a medieval warrior-hero, Thailog's a thoroughly amoral modern-day schemer. It's the incongruity of seeing someone so much like Goliath act and talk so very "un-Goliathish". (Even their speech patterns are different; Goliath speaks in a formal and solemn manner, while Thailog is much more flippant and colloquial.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 9:18:24 pm EDT from 4.244.209.164

Actually, I think Thailog started off on the right foot, when Greg insisted on making him the evil son of Goliath. Evil twin is beyond cliche, but making him Goliath's bastard child opens up a whole new set of relationships.

On another topic, reading the new Harry Potter book (this is relatively spoiler-free), Dobby comes back to help Harry, and proudly proclaims that he's a free elf. I started laughing my ass off, because I couldn't help thinking: "Dobby free will elf! Dobby stay with Harry! Harry smart!"
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
"Thailog smart!" -Thom Adcox, as Brentwood
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 8:59:01 pm EDT from 68.58.255.133

INCISIVIS> That's what I like about Thailog. His existence as a character is not dependent on him being a clone. It's almost an afterthought that he's Goliath's "evil twin".

When I think of Thailog, I think about how he outsmarted Xanatos and Sevarius; how he duped Demona; how perverse and lecherous he is (the creation of Delilah, his leering at Angela). I think of all that before adding "oh, and he's Goliath's clone" too.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 8:31:44 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

!!!!Spoiler for #5!!!

judging from the reviews here. "Bash" could've been called "Slash"..


looks like the cast is going to need a bunch of Band-aids :p
Starlioness
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 8:18:46 pm EDT from 65.102.117.189

So, here is my review of #5. I tried to write it in a semi-professional style, which is why it's not written as if I'm addressing everybody directly. Here goes....

SPOILERS STARTWell, number five in the series was what people like to call a "doozy". There was a lot of mere action, and from some perspectives the events could seem predictable, but added together and it all becomes a fine read.

First of all, Thailog, who undoubtedly was the star of this issue. His lines continue to be perfect for him, so that it is easy to hear Keith David's mocking, wicked voice while reading. It seems like it would be hard, in a story with so many sophisticated villains, to take seriously a character who was pure slick malice. But Thailog pulls it off by having absolute fun in his role; it even turns out that, in the spirit of the night, Thailog *was* wearing a domino mask for his attack on the castle. He's really been developed beyond the "evil twin" cliche.

And it looks like the same development is happening to the rest of the clones. Longtime fans will expect that the ending wasn't entirely happy, and indeed one of them, Brentwood, decides to stay with Thailog. Which is interesting because he was the one crouching on the sidelines, not fighting. Usually this indecisiveness suggests a character about to turn to the side of good.

And Goliath's line in response to that choice is a great one: "Choice must extend to those who chose unwisely", only broken by wheezing gasps of pain. It is very true, and makes Goliath one of the few truly appealing "big leader" characters in cartoons. There is a genuine feeling of conviction and heroism to him, as opposed to the writer going through the motions of cartoon cliche's. Goliath can still commit cowardly suicide in "Awakening", and be lying bleeding on the ground for a whole issue here, and never lose his credibility. It is strengthened, in fact, by seeing the writers' willingness to move Goliath from his role.

Delilah's new choice of freedom, though quick, still fit with the framework of the story, and one can admire her, deciding that even though someone is lying bleeding on the ground, it is still time to give him a piece of her mind.

Brooklyn, here dressed as Superman (which is hilarious, though his "Never fear! Super-Goyle is here!" was a bit much, even if it could be justified as him making a desperate effort to impress Angela or Delilah) again, can't catch a break, as it seems that his clone Malibu is attracted to Delilah and she might reciprocate that. Though one has to wonder what she would see in Malibu, who is barely articulate. Maybe he's really good in bed.

And there is blood. Thailog has stabbed Goliath in the gut (as shown on the cover, which Disney approved), and now takes his time to slash lightly at anyone attacking him. Angela also calls Thailog a bastard as she rushes him. Both are good things to see, because they lend a better sense of adult tension to the comic without being cheesily "edgy".

And off to the side, Hudson finally confesses his true nature to Jeffrey Robbins, who takes it in stride. It's the usual, "I had a feeling that was true" moment, but in light of the prejudice the gargoyles are facing, any kind cliche would seem heartwarming. And it proves that Hudson's visit to Henry had a purpose in the story.

And to finish off the issue, we find that Sevarius has another set of plans for the main casts' DNA. What are they? Hopefully something creative. And who is this girl from the Illuminati? It's quite a way to end an issue.

There are other small details which don't deserve a paragraph...yet. Xanatos finally gets his assignment from the Illuminati, and Mary and Finella make cameos at the costume ball.

The art is done by Karine Charlebois, a well-known and respected fan artist who has gone pro. Her art is the best of the three pencillers seen so far, and even though that is not saying much, it still deserves praise. The linework is clean, the colours vivid, the characters's faces expressive, and the action well-choreographed.

Except for Brooklyn's elbow spikes, everyone looks like their television model in all details, right down to Delilah holding her wing-hands in fists. The colours are also perfect: Brentwood is now his proper dark blue, instead of Thailog-black as he was last issue. Perhaps this means there is not as much of a distinct "style" to the art but this is a comic based on an animated series, and looking as close to the character models is the way for things to go. The only problem was that Angela sometimes looked rather small and fragile in comparison to the other characters. However, even though it's a continuity error, Broadway looks much better in a full-body costume than just a lion's mane and nose, because it gives a better "costume on top of a costume" impression.

One thing that is irritating about the art, which is *not* Karine's fault, is that the female gargoyles (Angela and Delilah) have a different leg structure than the males, "straight" legs instead of "bent" legs. The official model sheets have that, but the actual animation was inconsistent, and anatomically it makes no sense for that difference to exist. Oh well.

Yes, this is a fantastic issue. It's amazing what good art can do to help enliven in, though the story is nothing to forget, either. "Bash" just hits all the right notes.

SPOILERS END
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 7:51:26 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

I'm reminded of Demona telling Brooklyn that the spell she was going to put on Goliath in "Temptation" was complex and needed a lot of time to study. The actual incantation was only three words, which certainly fits in with the notion that magic takes a lot more than just reading or speaking the words.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 7:44:45 pm EDT from 4.244.209.164

I think casting spells has a lot more to do with training and skill than it does with reading words off a page. Anyone can sit down at a piano and bang on the keys, but the true music-makers like Billy Joel and Elton John are few and far between.

340 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Who rigs every Oscar night? Who robs crayfish of their sight? We do! We do!"
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 5:55:32 pm EDT from 67.38.240.141

Just checked the tracking information for Issue 5 and it's arrived here in the UK this morning so I hopefully get it tomorrow, I can't wait, I'm so excited.
Vicky82 - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 8:11:29 am EDT from 195.93.21.4

* WARNING - CONTAINS SPOILERS *

Last week, I discussed some of the episodes of the Goliath Chronicles and how they might have been based on Greg Weisman's own plans for the third season. Here's some thoughts on the episodes that I didn't get around to.

GENERATIONS: We're obviously going to have to see more of Demona at some point (beyond her retrieving the crystal from the Praying Gargoyle's shattered remains), though I suspect in a much better episode than this one. I'd still like to see her give Goliath a piece of her mind over smashing the Praying Gargoyle ("You had to protect the humans once again, and see how they repay you! They're out there with hoods and hammers, hunting us as if we were mere beasts!"). More than that, however, I will not guess at this time.

FOR IT MAY COME TRUE: I'm not sure that I should guess what the original story was behind this one (if it *was* based on one of Greg's ideas) - maybe something to do with Queen Mab's escape? But Titania would have other reasons (aside from the mother-in-law) to be keeping an eye on things in Manhattan, obviously.

TO SERVE MANKIND: The Illuminati have played a major role in the past three issues of the comic already, and we've learned much new information about them. But I think that it's safe to say that they're not after the gargoyles so that they can brainwash Goliath into assassinating a certain foreign statesman who must not be named so that his death will start up a civil war that will benefit their munitions factories. I think that the Illuminati are more complex than that - more subtle, too. (Besides, under the current situation in the comic, they might not need to kidnap Goliath if they wanted a gargoyle to serve as a hit-man; they could just assign Thailog the task, in return for a healthy share of the profits from the arms sales.)

SEEING ISN'T BELIEVING: Since Terry's still around 12, the New Olympians revealing themselves to the world is clearly a long way off. (I think it safe to assume that this episode was based on the plans for the "New Olympians" spin-off.) Of course, Elisa's costume in #4-#5 *could* be interpreted by some as an allusion to this episode.... :)

ANGELS IN THE NIGHT: I think it safe to assume that this one wasn't based on any of Greg's plans, but was just an obligatory "series finale" (the fact that they must have designed it as such even before the show's low ratings could have become clear indicates that the Goliath Chronicles was probably intended all along as the end of the series anyway - though the low ratings obviously didn't encourage them to change their minds on that). I think it safe to assume that Castaway isn't likely to carry out such foolish and reckless tactics as endangering a passenger train with lots of humans on board in the "comics-verse", in light of his ordering the Quarrymen to leave their hammers at home while on Halloween patrol. It's safe to assume that Greg still sees the Quarrymen as being around by 2198.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 7:47:12 am EDT from 4.244.215.110

(10)Tenth! And away we go on with the show.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
It's silly. It's a silly movie. There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?- George Lucas on Spider-Man 3
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 5:26:36 am EDT from 69.54.209.92

9th
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
"Ignore me!" - Venture Bros.
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 1:15:39 am EDT from 69.95.29.125

Eighth.
Spen
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 1:11:52 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

Random thought before I go to bed...

Did Goliath tell the clan about his Future Tense dream? Because maybe if he did, maybe Lex thought it would be cool to dress up as his villainous self from the vision.

SPOILER-ISH.....

and it might also explain why Goliath is not fazed by the costume. Though he does have other things on his mind when he finally sees lex...like trying to stay conscious.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn at aol dot com]
"Whoa, Tiny, you mean there's more than one of you?" "My name is not Tiny! I am Goliath!" - Elisa and Tiny
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 12:35:04 am EDT from 152.163.100.197

I hate posting on Sunday nights... the countdown always annoys me.

For those of you in contact with one David Xanatos... there are new methods to copy old manuscripts:

http://www.wired.com/gadgets/miscellaneous/news/2007/06/iliad_scan
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<----- How to scan a Grimore]
"Ooooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger!" -- Luna Lovegood
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 12:33:12 am EDT from 76.175.146.221

6th!! in the name of being wrong
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 12:27:37 am EDT from 71.29.243.231

heh 4th then
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 12:18:24 am EDT from 66.56.6.148

Lol! ok then, fifth
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn at aol dot com]
"Whoa, Tiny, you mean there's more than one of you?" "My name is not Tiny! I am Goliath!" - Elisa and Tiny
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 12:18:22 am EDT from 152.163.100.197

third times the charm
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn at aol dot com]
"Whoa, Tiny, you mean there's more than one of you?" "My name is not Tiny! I am Goliath!" - Elisa and Tiny
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 12:17:38 am EDT from 152.163.100.197

3rd then. Why not?
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 12:17:35 am EDT from 66.56.6.148

Third!
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 12:17:27 am EDT from 66.168.218.251

Since I'm around, I'll take
Second!
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 12:02:37 am EDT from 74.115.187.62

First!
Spoonvonstup - [<--- Gargoyles Music Video Database]
posted @ Mon, Jul 23, 2007 12:01:47 am EDT from 192.246.231.208