*blinks at the many responses*

Wow, I guess there is still a market for Garg collectibles after all. I guess I'll be giving all my stuff away to you guys, then. :)

It took me a while to figure out who "AK" was - I kept asking myself, "Who's Alaska?" Then I realized Arkansas has a K in it - duh, it's me. (Even though, technically, the abbreviation for Arkansas is AR. And Arizona is AZ... But mix-ups happen all the time amongst the A states.)

David> My nephew's going to be three in February. And I think you're right - there's a lot of stuff in there that he would be able to enjoy even now. Next time he comes to visit I'll have to plop him down in front of an episode and see what he thinks. Who knows - maybe Goliath will be his new hero. (Besides his favorite aunt, of course.)
Arkansas Mezzo - [arkansasmezzo at gmail dot com]
"I am sure you must have a great future in literature before you ... because you seem to be such a very bad interviewer. I feel sure that you must write poetry. I certainly like the colour of your necktie very much. Goodbye." -- Oscar Wilde, in an interview
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 11:01:45 pm EST from 130.184.85.195

Whoops, if it's going to be "list our Gargoyles stuff":

All the Marvel Comics issues
A few issues of Disney Adventures with Garg comics and features (not all of 'em)
Kenner figures of Brooklyn, Demona, Lexington, and Bronx
Applause figures, both sizes of Demona, and tiny Brooklyn and Lexington
Assorted POGs
A children's pop-up book.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 10:34:50 pm EST from 216.36.154.204

Sorry< But I have most of the Comics as well.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 10:24:25 pm EST from 161.184.65.92

COLLECTABLES> I have Brooklyn Applause, Lexington Applause (For Sale!) HUdson Appause (For Sale!) and another Hudson Applause.

Also, I have the Complete set of Gargoyles POGs, plus an ice storm Brooklyn transformed into a regualr brooklyn. Also have a brooklyn Dangler, and I HAD two books (Long way to Morning and awakening with color photos) and a gargoyles Poster.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 10:23:43 pm EST from 161.184.65.92

i think a good age for people to get into gargoyles is around 10 and up. i really wish they can have the show on Adult Swim, they would get so miney new Fanes. maybe disney dosnet care. wich that $%^^&# if its true. they have no idey what a good tv show they have. gerrrrrr man... it makes me made just thinking about it.
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 10:10:27 pm EST from 68.123.0.202

I have all the Marvel comics. I obtained them all within the last year. By the way, if anyone else still wants them and can't find them, here's the place that I used to gather mine:

http://www.dougcomicworld.com/INVENTORY-MarvelSite.html

I also used ebay and one other site, but I forgot what it was. Anyway, that site I have just listed is probably a good resource anytime you are looking for hard to find comics. Here's the main page:

http://www.dougcomicworld.com/
Rebel
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 9:57:59 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

I collect Gargoyles stuff, it's just getting harder and harder to find it. Most of my collection was acquired a number of years ago. I have the Applause figures, some of the Kenner action figures, Gargoyles danglers, some puzzles and children's books, complete sets of each series of trading cards, a complete set of the Marvel comics, and now I'm collecting the new comics. :)
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"It's only at the turning point that you find out how you fight." - Genesis, "In the Rapids"
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 9:38:57 pm EST from 76.205.72.111

AK: I love merchandise, even when it's crap quality. But on the Gargoyles front I'm more interested in Demona things, and with having all her Applause figures, Kenner action figure, and even her Pogs (yes, Pogs), there's not a lot for me left to find.

But I've recently been on the lookout for a Brooklyn-face mug, because it'd be cute. Also a complete Icestorm Brooklyn, just for the wackiness of it. I don't particularly like Brook the character, but I enjoy his design.

I don't know about age: the show was targeted to children, and I know I loved it when it was that age.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 9:15:37 pm EST from 216.36.154.204

Matt,
Who did you use as base figures for Griff, Zafiro, and Demona's Second in command? I'm assuming Coldstone was a repaint and Angela was made out of Demona, am I correct? Also, is there an e-mail address I could send you pictures of my figures to?
David - [souiofangelus at aol dot com]
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 8:34:14 pm EST from 71.184.91.26

Arkansas Mezzo- I think you should try introducing your nephew right now. He probably won't get finer points to the show, but I be he'll enjoy it. My second cousin, Hannah is only two and she loves watching Gargoyles with me. So far she enjoys it because Elisa has long pretty hair like her mom, and Bronx "is a gargoyle doggie" but the important part is she enjoys it. She even surprised me once as she is a huge Disney Princess fan, and was excited when Princess Katherine first appeared. She took an immediate dislike to her however, and said she was a "mean princess" after seeing how she behaved. How old is your nephew?
David - [souiofangelus at aol dot com]
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 8:30:13 pm EST from 71.184.91.26

David> I've made a few custom figures myself (Griff, Zafiro, Coldstone, Angela, Demona's Second, etc). I also looked online for others and was never able to find any. Nor are pictures of mine online. But I'd love to see what you've done.

AK> I do some Gargoyles collecting. If I see something I snatch it up, and there is a box of stuff sitting in my mom's basement. I don't have a lot though, mostly action figures and posters.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 8:22:06 pm EST from 24.207.160.51

Along the same lines as David's post: does anyone know if there are many fans out there who still collect Garg merchandise? I used to be obsessed with collecting, and go into KB toy store and buy up everything I could that had to do with Gargs, and I traded for the stuff I couldn't find ... but now it's all sitting in my basement, and I'd like to send them on to a new home someday. Maybe I should save them for my nephew when he gets older ....

Which makes me wonder: How young is too young to introduce Gargoyles? My nephew isn't even three yet, and he already loves Spiderman and Lightning McQueen and Nemo, but of course he wouldn't understand the story that goes along with them - he just thinks they're cool. Since Gargoyles is such an emotionally complex experience, I wouldn't want to introduce him to it before he's ready. (I was thinking about getting him the Season 1 DVD when he's old enough....)

Any thoughts?
Arkansas Mezzo - [arkansasmezzo at gmail dot com]
"I am sure you must have a great future in literature before you ... because you seem to be such a very bad interviewer. I feel sure that you must write poetry. I certainly like the colour of your necktie very much. Goodbye." -- Oscar Wilde, in an interview
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 8:13:01 pm EST from 130.184.85.195

Does anyone know of any sites that feature customized Gargoyles action figures? Would anyone here have any interest in seeing some I have made?
David - [souiofangelus at aol dot com]
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 7:32:55 pm EST from 71.184.91.26

Hey out there. Issues with release aside, I'm wondering how far along in the pipeline the next few issues of the comics are. What was the last update about how close to being finished the comics were from Greg W?
Echowarrior - [WARendfeld at aol dot com]
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 5:01:40 pm EST from 161.32.228.101

Greg has confirmed that Arthur had one destination after he left Avalon then cam back to the island, considered staying, but eventually left again and wound up in London.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 2:47:29 pm EST from 24.207.160.51

Avalon doesn't sen you were you want to go, it sends you where you need to be. Maybe Arthur's initial attempts to leave Avalon between January 1 and May 18, 1995 sent him to places that he needed to be other than London. And again, the time dilation on Avalon makes it really easy to skip ahead on the real world calendar. Hang out on Avalon for a little over a day to recover between adventures and nearly a month will have gone by in the outside world.

159 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"It's only at the turning point that you find out how you fight." - Genesis, "In the Rapids"
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 2:19:40 pm EST from 76.205.72.111

Here's another interesting "where were they" question brought up by the timeline -- for May 18, 1995, it says "on Avalon, King Arthur decides to leave in order to find Excalibur. He arrives in London." But he first left on January 1st, at the end of Avalon, Part 3. I was under the impression he went straight to England or he was just out in the world between Avalon and Pendragon, but apparently he came back to Avalon, either periodically like the other Avalon travelers, or (which is what it sounds like from "decides to leave" -- I thought he already did that) to stay for a while.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 1:02:22 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

Rebel> Probably living on the streets, like they always have.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 10:33:08 am EST from 68.184.215.167

So what were the Mutates doing between "Metamorphosis" and "Double Jeopardy"?
Rebel
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 9:23:38 am EST from 24.227.200.138

Side Thought (since I've got nothing significant to contribute to any discussion that has been established this week):

I've been noticing this for awhile now -- I don't think I've seen the CR so consistantly packed with so many different visitors (at least since I started to post last year).

Yeah, I don't have much to say. But I thought I'd mention that :P

To all the new/returning CR'ers that I've missed this week: Nice to see you in the CR!
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 3:27:08 am EST from 157.242.218.12

Rebel, go to the GargWiki and check the Timeline. They were not living together.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 1:02:04 am EST from 75.56.245.4

Hey, so I'm chilling here watching my Gargoyles Season 2 Vol 1 DVD, and I have a question. It's a question that would likely be difficult to find an answer for in Ask Greg, so I thought I'd ask here and see if one of you guys knows the answer.

So the Mutates were created in "Metamorphosis" (2nd ep of season 2) and probably took up residence at the castle then. However, in "Double Jeopardy" we see Thailog for the first time, and he's been living at the castle as well. Then in "The Cage" we *officially* learn that the Mutates have been living at the castle.

So, were the Mutates and Thailog living together for a while? Surely, that is significant somehow.
Rebel
posted @ Sun, Jan 20, 2008 12:41:13 am EST from 24.227.200.138

Harvester of Eyes: <Chicago's not that far from Ohio.>

I know; it's mainly money issues preventing me from going.

Regarding banners, are there any general guidelines when creating one? I've never made one before.
Bagpipes5K - [bagpipes5k2 at sbcglobal dot net]
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 11:57:12 pm EST from 68.252.38.78

Greg: <Terrorism is wrong. Terrorism is never the answer.>

Yeah, that's why it would be a very weak bomb. Just strong enough to take Jonny out, with little to no collateral damage. Assuming I know what I'm doing. I'm a seasoned pyro, so I think I could craft a bomb to those specifications.


Bagpipes: Chicago's not that far from Ohio.
Harvester of Eyes
"Sanders! You've gotta help! I don't know what to do. I can't make decisions! I'M A PRESIDENT!" -Mel Brooks ("Spaceballs")
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 10:06:39 pm EST from 24.189.64.136

Just wanted to cover all areas regarding the comic ;) I've never gotten to go to a Gathering before but I'd be there in a second if I could. (Any chance of one being in Ohio?)
Bagpipes5K - [bagpipes5k2 at sbcglobal dot net]
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 9:52:18 pm EST from 68.252.38.78

Ok guys, I think Bagpipes got the message.

By the way, is anyone designing a banner (advertising the comic and trade paperback) to put in forum signatures and such? I know the idea has been tossed around a good bit, but is anyone actually MAKING one? Because that might be nice. I'd do it, but I have no sense of style, as far as making banners. I tried making one last night, and it looked positively crappy. If art is going to be used on the banner, my vote goes to the cover of issue 1. I think that would be the best choice.
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 9:37:23 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Alice> Don't worry, you meant well. Thankfully, it was through Paypal and you could stop it.

I find it hard to miss anything about the comic if you go to the Gathering these last two years. You really would have to be in your room all the time, ears plugged, and without con-going roommates.
Asatira
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 8:57:04 pm EST from 68.117.247.235

You'd have to hide in your hotel room all weekend with your hands over your ears chanting "la la la la" to be at the Gathering and NOT hear about the comic book.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 7:27:00 pm EST from 76.205.72.111

Assuming a person going to the Gathering DOESN'T know about the comics, and I can't imagine there are many of them, I don't see how they could attend and not become aware by the end of the con, whether people are targeting them or not.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 6:25:32 pm EST from 68.184.215.167

For those going to the Gathering:

If possible, please take some issues of the comic with you to share with other fans while you're there; it would be a perfect place to get the word spread :)
Bagpipes5K - [bagpipes5k2 at sbcglobal dot net]
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 5:50:28 pm EST from 68.252.38.78

I'd sign a petition For Jonny too.. um.. *whistles*
Starlioness
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 5:14:36 pm EST from 24.18.251.55

well after what you guys told me i whent a head and stop the payment.;-) sorry you guys i thout i was helping out.
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 4:48:00 pm EST from 68.123.0.202

Chris > Sure thing!
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 4:24:13 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

If you have money to spare and you want to help Gargoyles the best way to use it is to buy the comics, the TPB, the DVDs or pay to make copies of fliers or whatever to advertise the franchise.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 4:19:20 pm EST from 68.184.215.167

If you've paid $10 to some petition, you've been taken. Online petitions aren't worth the paper they're printed on to begin with.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 4:15:19 pm EST from 76.205.72.111

Great letter rebel! Real positive and upbeat and informative. Mind if I use it to send to anyone I know?

Yes, I believe Alice just did say she sent money to some petition...*shakes head*
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 4:08:51 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

it was thow payPAL. so if i find out it is a scam then i just call and make a stop payment
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 4:07:40 pm EST from 68.123.0.202

Is it me, or did Alice just say she paid $10 to some Gargoyles petition...? If so, I hope she didn't just get scammed.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 4:03:27 pm EST from 68.184.215.167

hay everone just to let all u know i may not be on for 3 or 4 day i need to studdy for a test i have on tuesday. i know ita a long time away but as i seid befor i have a hard time spelling i need to studdy as much as i can. take care everone. and never give up my friends.
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 3:49:32 pm EST from 68.123.0.202

MATT>>>>> i made a donashon to the petition to encourage Disney to make more dvds, Volume. i hope it helpes i miss my show :-(. did 10.00 i know its not much but at this time its all i can do
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 3:45:27 pm EST from 68.123.0.202

<< Anyway, I pointed them to the fans registry, and I believe they came back and told me a lot of the emails on there are dead (and this was several years ago). Not that that's surprising; I'm sure many addresses have changed. >>

That's not surprising at all. That registry is so old, there's probably more e-mail addresses in it that are bad than ones that are good. When the Gathering staff mailed out postcards about the convention in 2006, we used information from registration lists only going back two years and for every ten postcards that went out, one came back as "moved, no forwarding address". Using a database of postal mailing addresses that's more than five years old, I would expect no better than a 50% success rate. But with e-mail addresses, I think you'd be lucky to hit 25%.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"You see this knife? I'm going to teach you to speak English with this knife!" - Bill "The Butcher" Cutting, "Gangs of New York"
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 3:33:03 pm EST from 76.205.72.111

Oops. Didn't mean to include that first part. The paragraph that mentions facebook is part of a message that I sent to admins of various gargoyles facebook groups, trying to persuade them to send out a message to their members. That might prove fruitful too.
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 3:00:37 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

This morning I searched Yahoo! answers for any and all questions related to Gargoyles (besides the one Anthony posted the other day), and sent about 40 or so e-mails to various Gargoyles fans who might not have known about the comics or the trade paperback. I've only gotten two responses so far, but they've both been positive. This is what I said in my e-mails:

"Hi there, just wondering if you'd be willing to send out a message to your Gargoyles group on facebook, or put it in the group description. I'm just trying to spread awareness about the Gargoyles comics that are out now. The message could go something like this:

"Hi there! This e-mail is to let gargoyles fans know that GARGOYLES LIVE AGAIN! The story has picked up right where season 2 left off, in comic book form. There are currently 7 issues of Gargoyles, and one issue of the "Gargoyles: Bad Guys" spin-off. These are the first new canon stories in years, written by Gargoyles creator, Greg Weisman. If you want to catch up, the trade paperback collecting the first 6 issues of Gargoyles will be available this Wednesday, January 23rd. It can be purchased at your local comic book store, at amazon.com, or http://www.slgcomic.com/. Thanks!"

Out of those 40 people, I'm sure I'll rope in at least a few.
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 2:59:15 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Well, Ed would still need to get confirmation before putting anybody on a mailing list, but asking about being put on a mailing list isn't a bad idea.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 2:47:43 pm EST from 98.20.188.71

I remember someone wanting to promote something a while back. Maybe it was the comic or the dvd. Anyway, I pointed them to the fans registry, and I believe they came back and told me a lot of the emails on there are dead (and this was several years ago). Not that that's surprising; I'm sure many addresses have changed.

I've found that lots of people who were once active posters on forums turned instead to their LJ's, and that's actually a good way to get in touch with them. By the same token, however, these guys usually have one or two people in their friend's list who *are* still active fans and probably drop mention of the comic/dvds periodically, so that these old fans are already aware of them.

I don't know if Gathering Staffs still try to make a LJ "Gathering Community", but I linked to one dating from 2004 that will show you LJ's from several old and current fans. As I said though, my thinking is that these guys are already aware of the news.
Vashkoda - [<my name goes here> at gmail dot com]
D2 <Can I have it?> <Reward> 500 gil!
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 2:09:57 pm EST from 71.106.238.12

Wow... That was funny... A little cruel, but funny...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>-.-)> Tired...
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 2:09:09 pm EST from 72.199.225.9

Disclaimer: Terrorism is wrong. Terrorism is never the answer.

Remember, we are currently fighting a War on Terrorism. Probably even more important than the War on Drugs. So, once again, repeat after me.

Just say no to terrorism.
You are not a chicken, they are turkeys.
Terrorists aren't your friends, they are your enemies.

God, I am in a weird mood today.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 2:01:15 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

<<We could always turn Jonny Modlin into a human bomb and send him down to Disney's corporate headquarters. That should grab their attention. How about it, Jonny? Play your cards right, and seventy virgins will await you.>>

::Reads. Reads the words. Reads the words again::

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

::Falls over::

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

He needs to do that high pitched wailing when he does it, you know:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaalalalalalallalalalalalala!!!!

Best s8 posts ever.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 1:52:37 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

We could always turn Jonny Modlin into a human bomb and send him down to Disney's corporate headquarters. That should grab their attention. How about it, Jonny? Play your cards right, and seventy virgins will await you.
Harvester of Eyes
"Awful things are happening, we've let this drama fold. And now the time has come at last to crush the motif of the rose." -Blue Oyster Cult ("Before the Kiss, a Redcap")
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 1:44:47 pm EST from 24.189.64.136

Patrick: I'm afraid you've conflated two separate issues.

It would be useful be able to crosscheck the names of the people on the Gathering list with the Gargoyles fans registry. This way, we won't needlessly hassle people who clearly already know the comic exists. That said, the point you make about the list's privacy is extremely important, and thanks very much for that.

There's also the suggestion of starting up a different list specifically for comic updates. This might have a precedent in the Gathering list, but otherwise has nothing to do with it.

The issue of spamming is important. We're talking about contacting people out of the blue and I suppose some people might consider that unethical. But we're not contacting people at random: we're contacting those who chose to announce their names and contact details on a website declaring themselves Gargoyles fans. And we're not bombarding people. The idea is to contact them one time only, for the purpose of informing them about the survival of a series they obviously once cared for a great deal.

Ultimately, I'd like to expand our reach. People who were once regulars on S8 seem like people who'd want to know about the comic, and so on. We do have to be careful and respectful, obviously.

Anyway, I've put the registry onto a spreadsheet, plus Airwalker. Of the 739 names, I have to say barely two dozen are names I'm convinced know the comic exists; I'm sure many more do. But it's a lot of people -- and I'm sure we could reach 800 if we thought about it a little bit.

I wonder if the best way of handling this would be to have an invite-only mailing list where we can organise an effort to contact people. I'm not sure it's a good idea to do this in the public domain; but equally, we need to have some kind of co-ordination so we don't get anybody twice.
Ed Reynolds
"You can only talk rubbish if you're aware of knowledge." -- Karl Pilkington
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 11:09:11 am EST from 213.187.39.61

Oh geeez.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 10:55:34 am EST from 68.184.215.167

How many signatures do we need for the petition of Get Season 2, Volume 2 of Gargoyles out now! at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/S2V2Gargoylesnow/index.html

When is Gargoyles Season 2, Volume 2 coming out on DVD?
Jonny Modlin - [mmodlin at optonline dot net]
Jonny Modlin
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 10:54:50 am EST from 69.124.91.54

Someone is more than welcome to write up something about the comic book and submit it to the Gathering staff for inclusion in the next newsletter. The text of that can even include an invitation to come join another mailing list. But if anyone thinks that the Gathering is going to haphazardly give away a list of e-mail addresses to anyone who wants to start up another mailing list... sorry, that's not going to happen. Getting onto a mailing list should be voluntary, or it's spamming. Plain and simple.

160 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"You see this knife? I'm going to teach you to speak English with this knife!" - Bill "The Butcher" Cutting, "Gangs of New York"
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 8:21:58 am EST from 76.205.72.111

The mailing list for comics news sounds like a great idea. And we have precedent for it: the mailing list for Gathering news.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 7:25:22 am EST from 4.244.215.197

Ed Reynolds> well myspace is a good web site i really havent had much problems with them
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 6:20:04 am EST from 68.123.0.202

Ed Reynolds - Having one serialized list to contact people is a good idea. I would also suggest on the "know" list is people who have been to the 2007 Gathering. The delay between gargoyles issue #1 and issue #2 meant that people attended the 2006 gathering and none sense might have forgotten. I would suggest on the contacts list is everybody who has ever attended any gathering. That's a group of people who have a definite interest. Another thing is we could use somebody to design a banner ad that people could place in their signature file when they post in online forums.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 5:43:00 am EST from 98.20.188.71

DPH: Thank you! A Fan was the one I was most sure was still around. Aimee Major had her own webforum last I recall (albeit 7 or 8 years ago) so I'd imagine she'd know. And The Gathering idea is brilliant, I'll do that. And yes, I think the best thing to do is to list all the names so we can tick them off as we find them and only then start contacting people as a last resort. But plenty of people aren't on the list so we'll have to try and build it up, too.

Battle Beast: Thanks! I suppose some of these might be people who've changed names. But I don't suppose one e-mail (for those who have e-mail) would hurt.

Rebel: Don't be discouraged. I think your idea to work out who's likely to be most receptive to the comment is a smart one. The more ideas we have, the better off we'll be. I suspect brainstorming other *interests* might be more effective though. After all, we're mostly going to be operating on the net so we don't necessarily know who we're targeting in terms of age and gender. Complentary fandoms I guess would include Disney's ducks, DC, Marvel, Joss Whedon, Reboot, Star Wars, Star Trek, Talespin, Tolkien, Transformers, Turtles... fandoms with an interest in supporting the idea of creator-made comics (i.e. dead ones which aspire to life) might be good. I think Tolkien fans might be interested in the sense of it being a historical/legendary tapestry. We also need to find these people in a way that's not going to be just spam though. It would be ideal if we had people who were at least a little active in different fandoms.

Alicia: I've never really used MySpace, but it seems like a really good idea to have a 'Gargoyles' MySpace page. (And, belatedly, welcome! :))

bluewyvern: A myspace page could work as well as a specifically-designed comic site. It would be ideal to be able to link out to MySpace and Facebook -- anything to suit any type of reader.

I've been asking around about this business about bumping us up Google. Apparently, it's best to have an individual website and then to have lots and lots of links to high-rated sites to bump up our profile. And to have a clear description so we exactly match what people are searching for. I'll have a look around for web deals later. I'm not so well up on the site design part though.

I also think it would be wise to try and create an announcement mailing list for garg fans, a bit like the e-mails sent out by sites like Amazon. So we can e-mail everyone on the release of a new issue or trade, or the announcement of a new comic. If we can do this in a somewhat professional manner, it may be worth seeing if we can get an announcement in the comic. If people are drifting from the comic because of delays, we can call them back much easier.
Ed Reynolds
"They are 97% water or something, so how much are they doing? Just give them another 3% and make them water. It's more useful." -- Karl Pilkington on jellyfish
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 5:19:23 am EST from 212.183.136.193

If we're talking about creating a new promotional Gargoyles portal, I don't think it should be another MySpace site. The whole MySpace thing could be immediately off-putting to some, who wouldn't want to look at a MySpace page regardless of the content. (And if they do, there's already a MySpace page out there, even if it's a little out of date.) If we look at our preliminary guesses about profiling, for example, our target audience is probably a little older and web-savvier than the younger teen MySpace demographic...more likely to frequent blogs and specialized forums than sensory-overload social networking sites.

I think it should ideally just be a single webpage -- basically a summary with all the info in one glance, with links to the real sites -- hosted on someone's existing site. Like, say, Station 8. Or does someone else have a site where they'd be willing to host a page?
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 3:16:06 am EST from 208.194.97.9

I might end up doing it myself. I haven't decided, but like I said, I've been thinking about it. If someone wants to assist me on updating the random stuff, then I'd happily welcome that person or persons. I'd be able to update on comic releases with no problem; it's all that other data that would be the concern.
The Gargoyles Pulse (Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 2:56:41 am EST from 70.15.84.29

Ed : Well, Aris has a LiveJournal, so someone could contact him that way (I don't think I should; Aris wouldn't know me from Adam.) Carolynn posted at the TGS room about two years ago; there's a chance she's still around. While we're on the A's, anyone know how to contact Airwalker?

Patrick : "straight, gay, or bi" Not all. I'm asexual.
Spen
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 2:46:55 am EST from 66.43.205.110

Mochi>>> thats sounds like a grate idey


Anthony Tini>>> what do u think of it? would u like to help 3 of us can do it or mybe one more so thats 4 . but we cant goff off. no chage pass worrds in lest some one still it then we have no choise. but we should alll think this over because its a commitement with all of us.

sorry again for the miss spelld words
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 2:45:03 am EST from 68.123.0.202

MySpace >> I would offer to make a MySpace account, but I may have a problem committing to the upkeep of the account as I'm trying to enlist in the military later this year.

However, an idea did come to mind now that it's being discussed. What if more than one person were to not only create the account but maintain it as well? That way, the responsiblity won't lie on just one person. That would also mean creating an e-mail account specifically for the MySpace page and sharing access information with those willing to maintain the accounts.

Just an idea that may work...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>-.-)> Tired...
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 2:26:20 am EST from 72.199.225.9

Anthony Tini> thats sweet of you. so do you want me to do a new gargoyles my space? well i guess i can but maybe we can work on it togther. i would mostly have to copy what the other guy has, and also i need to see whan i can start. remmber im back in school so thats also going to make it hard on me. but i will do my best.

Vicky82>>>> hello thats cool we both have the same pic
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 2:25:40 am EST from 68.123.0.202

Alice> Yes, I've been to the site. I was wondering if you were willing to create a new one, but you're not because you're still learning to spell. I can help by correcting your recent sentence if you'd like to help you learn.
The Gargoyles Pulse (Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 2:08:04 am EST from 70.15.84.29

Here's my Myspace page got a little bit on Gargoyles

http://www.myspace.com/sweetandinnocentvicky
Vicky82
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 1:48:31 am EST from 195.93.21.4

Justin,>Rebel,> and Purplegoldfish > thank you alll for the nice welcomeing ;-)

Anthony Tini> have u ssen the myspace web site? this is the web site

http://www.myspace.com/weliveagain

i do like the sit its just that the guy who make it has not been on for over 3 almost 4 months. i just which he would up date it. i would like to make one my self but i couldent to it. because i spell really really bad. im take a spelling class rigth now because its that bad. if i didnt have this problem i would deffently do the new web site.
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 1:25:14 am EST from 68.123.0.202

I'm rather late too. Welcome alicia!
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 1:14:06 am EST from 24.227.200.138

Welcome to the room Alicia!

And Happy Birthday Siren!
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 12:58:32 am EST from 64.148.48.134

Maybe someone should make a new myspace page. But if we do, it needs to be intelligent, professional, eloquent, and informative.
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 12:39:33 am EST from 24.227.200.138

a little late but...

Alicia: Welcome!!!!

Siren: Happy Birthday!!!! :D XD
Justin
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 12:29:44 am EST from 74.135.61.121

Alica> You think someone should make a new Gargoyles myspace page and keep it updated? Have you given it any thought because I have especially since they person who signed up for "weliveagain" doesn't keep it updated.
The Gargoyles Pulse (Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 12:15:57 am EST from 70.15.84.29

chris> i know that MYSPACE isnt much but i feel like its a srat. the only thing is that i dont like about it, is the guy who made the website is not keeping up with it.
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 12:04:25 am EST from 68.123.0.202

ED> WAY COOL IDEA! By the way, ED, I am Pyro Porcupine on the list. Man, that name goes back years... holy cow!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sat, Jan 19, 2008 12:03:13 am EST from 161.184.65.92

Ed and bluewyvern >

Yes, that's the kind of profiling type stuff I'm talking about. Though some may scoff, such information as this can really help us out.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 11:59:14 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

bluewyvern, and Blaise> thanks for welcomeing me ;-) im so happy to have found this web site and sorry if you guys didnt like the myspace web site of gargoyles that i found. maybe if the person who made it was keeping up with the web site it wouldent be soo bad
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 11:58:16 pm EST from 68.123.0.202

Ed - <list> A Fan knows and has to be recent gatherings to know. Might I suggest you talk to whoever is in charge of the gathering mailing list so that you can find who's on that list that's also on the fan registry? Might I also suggest you create a list of people who definitely know so we have a masterlist of people not to contact?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 11:01:51 pm EST from 98.20.188.71

****Blaise flies through the Room, leaving behind a cake topped with 29 candles.****

Happy Birthday Siren!!

<drops a tray of cookies> And welcome to the Comment Room, Alicia!

And...that's pretty much all I have to offer at the moment (I'm concerned for the comic, of course, but I'm doing what I can and remaining optimistic). Until next time, farewell. ****Blaise shoots out through a window.****
Blaise
"Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life."--Terry Pratchett's "Jingo"
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 9:40:09 pm EST from 4.232.165.162

Thanks for your post, Ed. It was well-thought out - and that was an impressive list of names. Some of them brought back memories (A Fan, Aaron Ziegler, Alison Wilgus, Aerie, Aris Katsaris). Pity that I haven't heard from most of them for a few years (though A Fan still sometimes posts at the chat room).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 9:20:18 pm EST from 4.244.208.134

Alicia> Welcome! I'm glad you found your way in here.

Garg MySpace: I hate MySpace, but that page is actually pretty well put together. I like the "Stars" and the "Q&A" features, and it seems to be pretty well-linked to the major websites and resources. If only the guy hadn't gone and disappeared! That "News" section could use a good updating with a bunch of comic release dates...

Profiling: While I understand there's a knee-jerk reaction to resist generalizations, I do think a few can be made. The core of former casual-to-hardcore fans is probably generally about 20-35, college graduates, creative, artsy, web-savvy, with a lot more disposable income now than when we were watching as teens (but still not loads). Probably moved onto other online fandoms and communities, generally fantasy- and sci-fi-oriented (I think Ed's ideas were pretty on-the-money). Probably a fair amount of gamers, too. And anime fans.

Everyone who doesn't fit the above GENERALIZATION, please don't jump on me. :P People seem to be a tad touchy around here lately...is it usually like this?

I'm not sure if any of these specifics change our approach, but there you go.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 9:18:42 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

Great idea, Ed.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 9:13:10 pm EST from 68.184.215.167

I haven't been able to follow all the discussion of late so I'm a bit behind. But a few thoughts:

1. I'm convinced we can bump up sales on the comic if we're determined, and we're smart, and we're focused. What Disney do is irrelevant to our mission. What SLG do is irrelevant to our mission. Is it hard to push a comic that's delayed or underpromoted? Maybe... but it's 100% easier than pushing NO COMIC.

2. Let's start with the lowest-hanging fruit first. GARGOYLES FANS. Tanika's return a few weeks ago proves that there are dedicated Gargoyle nuts who weren't with us in 2006 -- and very likely some won't be with us now. There's been a great procession of netbound Gargoyle fans. We have the Fan Registry. We have the S8 and TGS archives. And after that, we have site guestbooks and other pools of fandoms. We need to identify who hasn't been around in the last few years and MAKE SURE they know 'Gargoyles' exists in comic form. I've been flat out the last couple of weeks but I'm going to try and find some time for this.

3. As Bluewyvern says, a site is essential. I think we need to work out what's going to go into it, but the main thing is obviously that people can buy the comic. But I'd also like to do an open-letter to other fandoms, particularly those with some obvious crossover appeal. To Trek fans. To Whedonverse fans. Whoever else. Work out what it is people in those fandoms like and highlight those aspects of 'Gargoyles'.

The worry about framing the thing as 'save Gargoyles' is interesting. I agree it's better not to show weakness. But I think in some cases it would be justified. When making our pitch to fandoms with a history of struggling against cancelation, I think it's likely to be effective. When trying to win over people just to give it a shot, less so.

Rebel: This kind of profiling is interesting. I would definitely say a lot of entertainment sites; particularly with a sci-fi/fantasy bent. People must have toes in other fandoms. Is anyone involved with Harry Potter? Farscape? Firefly? Tolkien? If we can identify where these people are and then work out how to persuade people of this sort we'd be well on our way.

One other thought. I typed Gargoyles into Google. The front page has no mention of the comic. Not a sausage. It must be possible to rectify that.

Incidentally, are any UKers going to the Bristol comic expo in May?

Let's start on the registry. Here are the "A" names. If your name is here and you're reading this, please shout out. If you know someone on this list DEFINITELY knows about the comic (i.e. he/she has been to a Gathering or posted on the board), please shout out. Eventually, we should end up with a smaller group to track down:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050405074736/www.dracandros.com/Jebgarg/registry/registrybyname_a.html

A Fan
Aaron Ziegler
Acadamy/Jarrid
Ace D. Dragon
Ace9hdFL
AceKaitou
AceripXF
Adam
Admiral Ivan Trimm
Carolyn "Aerie" Marie
Aeryvae
Agamemnon
Agenis
Agent Maza
Aimee Syrene
Aislinn
Alison Wilgus
Alake
Alaxk
Aleks
Aleksey Y. Nelipa
Alex Destine
Alexa Atello
AlexG
Alleria
Altazara Acelin
amazing_babe
Amber
Amcm74
Amelia "The Elf" Showalter
Amethyist
Amp
Amy
Andy Morrison
Aneuran
Angel
Angel H.
Aimee Major
Angela
Angelic Bard
Angie Heera
Anora
Arazia Phoenix
Arcadia
Archie
Archwolf
Ari
Ariadne
Ariana
Arin
Aris Katsaris
Arno
Artemis
Arthenion
Ashley
Audra Kelley
Aurora Kinsclan: THE Jackal Lover
AussieGargoyle
avalon
David "avalon archives" Middleton
Avator
Aya
Ayamai
Azabeth
Azlynn
Azra Bathory
Azrena
Azurite

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of names there I'm fairy sure would know about the comic... and those are only guesses. Let's work out who might still be in the dark here...
Ed Reynolds
"If I was [Noah], I would have gone, "Hang on a minute, I've just seen something that looks a bit like this... let it drown!" Have a bit of a clear out. But he was messing about saving everything..." -- Karl Pilkington
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 8:48:28 pm EST from 213.187.39.61

Todd> just had to say, my sanity break was just made brighter because of you. I think my eyes are bleeding from reading that first chapter of 'Disney'-made Tolkien.

The fact that a group strikingly similar to the KKK and an episode that's just about been baned by ToonDisney for violence (I think 'Deadly Force' actually was banned) exist in the Gargoyles setting makes the content a little off kilter from the typical Disney life's a bowl of cherries...
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 8:48:25 pm EST from 66.211.211.248

ALGERNON - Yes, but I was thinking about the general trappings: these monstrous-looking gargoyles breaking out of stone sleep, fighting crime in modern-day Manhattan - that certainly doesn't sound like conventional Disney animated movies.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 8:20:53 pm EST from 4.244.208.134

Todd> I wouldn't really consider Gargoyles "dark" or "grim", yes they had a tragic back story but so does Spider-Man. Indeed you have these characters who star off in the worst possible situation, the last of their kind, strangers in a strange land, hated and feared, yet manage to survive and even prosper in this brave new world. That to me is the very essence of optimism.
Algernon
Treat people in your debt like family... exploit them. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition No. 111
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 8:15:31 pm EST from 86.41.203.86

Speaking of Disney cliches, here's a satirical piece about them you might want to read:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3914847/1/Walt_Disney_Presents_The_Lord_of_the_Rings

Though Tolkien-lovers might not know whether to laugh or cry while reading it....
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 7:54:03 pm EST from 4.244.208.134

Patrick> Oh, I can describe the average "Gargoyles" fan...

They each have two eyes! And a mouth right below their noses!
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 7:49:28 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

<<Just out of curiosity, are there any generalizations that we can safely make about Gargoyles fans (or, *potential* gargoyles fans)? If we can determine some typical qualities about the average gargoyle fan, we can use this information to our advantage. I believe this is called "target marketing">>

Ages of "Gargoyles" fans are generally within the 5 to 95 age group. 100% live on the planet Earth. Most consider themselves to be either male or female; straight, gay, or bi; Democrat, Republican or Independent. Most follow a major religion except for those who don't. The vast majority who've seen the show have access to a television set. Most who buy the comic know how to read.

I can go on with the generalizations if you want. :P

161 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 7:42:40 pm EST from 76.205.72.111

Re: Todd's comments on Disney--

I've had the same thoughts about that for a long time. It's too bad Disney doesn't create a new niche of sorts for shows like Gargoyles. Definitely one of the best animated stories out there; Disney is missing a great opportunity.
Bagpipes5K - [bagpipes5k2 at sbcglobal dot net]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 7:27:13 pm EST from 69.210.208.153

I wonder if Disney might not advertise "Gargoyles" because it doesn't fit Disney's standard image - it's a fairly grim and dark (though with elements of hope) story about living gargoyles fighting crime in modern-day New York. More evocative of "Batman" than Disney's customarily anthropomorphic animals or animated fairy-tale musicals. So they don't want to admit they're making something so utterly against type.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 6:34:31 pm EST from 4.244.208.134

Just out of curiosity, are there any generalizations that we can safely make about Gargoyles fans (or, *potential* gargoyles fans)? If we can determine some typical qualities about the average gargoyle fan, we can use this information to our advantage. I believe this is called "target marketing".

So, basically, what's the age range of the average gargoyles fan? What kinds of things are they into (we might can determine this by looking at our own interests)? What websites might they visit? What hobbies might they have? What social niche do they fit into? How can we best reach them?

And yes, I know it's difficult to make generalizations like this, but if we can, it would help us. Real businesses determine information like this all the time before marketing their products, and then use said information to help determine their marketing strategy.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 6:02:44 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

glad that there's a page out there, but unfortunate that it's not current. I don't put alot of faith in MySpace anyways. Don't trust the people on it and warn my little sisters about it all the time. Sorry to any MySpace lovers out there, just my personal feelings.
<3 to all.
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 5:48:07 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

Rebel> I see your point.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 5:38:55 pm EST from 24.98.74.35

thanks kerry, hey did u guys know that someone make a myspace page for gargoys. i was sooooooooooo happy to see it you guys check it out

http://www.myspace.com/weliveagain

the p;ny bad part is this guys hasnet been on over 3 months now gerrrr
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 4:49:21 pm EST from 68.123.0.202

Kerry >
"I just had an idea. How about putting up ads on webcomics and stuff like that? The ones that let individuals contact them for advertising? Or see if the people that produce some of the more famous ones might post something letting people know about the DVDs, comics, and the precarious position thereof."

I think this is a good idea. All *except* the part about letting them know about the "precarious position" they're in. I don't think it's a good idea for the casual fan to know that we're trying to "save" Gargoyles, or that the comics/DVDs are even in a position where they need "saving". I don't think we should show any sign of weakness to the casual fan, because then they might not buy, thinking the comics won't last long.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 4:35:44 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Meg> I'm definitely not going to say that those sales won't have an effect, or that some people won't just wait till they can get the comics cheaper on eBay. I just don't know for sure whether it ends up in a net gain or loss. My personal opinion is that without the eBay listings, the people buying not only may not *ever* buy *any* issues (due to lack of knowledge, funds, etc), those sales would also not be able to lead people to buy the issues published *after* this TPB.

But whether it's good or bad, they're on eBay already, and there's not really anything we can do about that. We just need to make sure enough people know that will purchase from SLG's site or their local comic shops to try and minimize any negative impact the secondhand sales might have.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 4:31:11 pm EST from 199.38.51.134

Kerry> I totally understand what you're saying, and I agree that there is definitely advertising value in having the comics up. And if it were the case that someone was going to buy issue #1 off eBay, then start picking the rest off the shelves, I would agree with you. But I just looked on eBay, and within two clicks had found someone selling off the first five issues of the comic for 9.99 total. You can't tell me that that won't affect sales of the trade...and while it's not illegal, I feel like stuff like that could offset the free advertising in lost sales.
Meg
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 4:16:16 pm EST from 72.70.238.239

Happy Birthday Siren.
Welcome Alicia.
That's all I got. Buried in making lesson plans :(
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 4:15:38 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

I just had an idea. How about putting up ads on webcomics and stuff like that? The ones that let individuals contact them for advertising? Or see if the people that produce some of the more famous ones might post something letting people know about the DVDs, comics, and the precarious position thereof.

Also, the people who frequent forums or other places that allow commenting (deviantART, etc) could have something in their signature linking here or to SLG or something.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 4:13:54 pm EST from 199.38.51.134

Oops. Sorry, hit the button too soon. >..<

So the people auctioning the comics would in fact be advertising the comic itself, and putting the word out to millions of potential buyers. Personally, I think this helps us more than it hurts.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 4:00:33 pm EST from 199.38.51.134

Meg> Well, yeah, ideally we want everybody to buy theirs off the shelves and sites directly, and everyone would keep every copy they get. But I'm sure there are people who picked it up and didn't care for it for some reason and are using eBay to get their copies to people who would appreciate them, who might not have known about the comic without the eBay listing.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 3:57:58 pm EST from 199.38.51.134

Kerry> Don't we want people to buy straight off the shelves/from SLG, though? That way two issues are reflected in the sales reports, not just one, and SLG makes more money.

Not that this is the biggest issue facing us, by any means, but....
Meg
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 3:51:42 pm EST from 72.70.238.239

Meg> Why would we want to discourage people buying them from eBay? The comic stil has to get bought from somewhere else before it can be put up for auction, and if they go to people who will buy more of the comics afterwards, how is this bad?
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 3:41:20 pm EST from 199.38.51.134

So one thing I didn't even really consider is that people are buying the comics off eBay and the like. Short of buying them ourselves, anyone have any idea on how to discourage this?
Meg
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 3:30:42 pm EST from 72.70.238.239

Spreading the word at Yahoo. It's not much but it's something.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AriHGmt0J7QDrypjNh7Xg0jsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20080118121005AA8bdXG
The Gargoyles Pulse (Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 3:13:39 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

Wingless> I don't think anyone in this chat room would disagree that Disney has mismanaged/misjudged the Gargoyles franchise and given it the shaft in many different ways. That, if nothing else, more advertising would seriously help the cause. But as fans, we can either sit around and say "Disney should do x, y, and z," or we can do what we can to make the franchise successful. And whether or not it's right, fair, or logical, Disney has proven that they are NOT going to advertise this franchise. Is it stupid and shortsighted and unprofitable? Probably. But it's not going to change, and talking about it ad nauseam is just unproductive at this point (and, quite frankly, it gives off a really negative vibe, which we don't need right now). It's just not going to change.

I tend to look at it this way. In some senses, Disney did a favor to the fans by releasing the DVDs/comics, because let's be honest, there wasn't THAT large a call for them. The favor didn't extend to marketing them. Disney made it clear when they released the products that they wouldn't be marketing them, that that was our responsibility, and we as fans implicitly entered into that contract in getting them to release stuff at all. I get that we've done more than our part and it's really wearying to have to KEEP doing a lot of the legwork, but if we can convert enough people, then Disney will have to sit up and take notice.

Bottom line, even if Disney has made bad business decisions with regards to Gargoyles (which they have), it is what it is and we just have to live with it and do what we can. But--and Wingless, don't take this personally, because it's not directed just at you--complaining about what Disney DOESN'T do for Gargoyles is, right now, wasted energy/effort that needs to be funneled into thinking up more productive ways of advertising the comic.

All> In terms of a grassroots-type campaign, I posted about the trade on a few Gargoyles livejournal communities, and I've already gotten a handful of responses back from people who didn't seem to know about the comics/the trade or who are awaiting their copies of a few of the comics. Which kind of proves that people are still discovering the comic and are definitely willing to buy it, which is a definite positive! Does anyone else have an idea of other livejournal/related type stuff we can blitz? Personally, I think livejournal and stuff like it are good tools to contact a segment of the population that might be most inclined to buy the trade/the comics....
Meg
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 2:31:01 pm EST from 72.70.238.239

alicia> Good luck! ^..^
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 2:02:32 pm EST from 199.38.51.134

Demonskrye - I think the LEAST disney could do is realize that Gargoyles is not the same sort of show as DD or TS. It has a different sort of fan base - one from all ages, and an older fan base. We has fans have done our part going to conventions, buying merchandise (my bedroom walls are covered in gargs stuff...and yes, I'm terminally single). You cannot release any product...ANY product without advertising it. Disney did just that. As I said, even banner ads on sites like tvshowsondvd.com or any of the animation sites wouldn't cost them much, but it would bring attention to the product. And you can't tell me that it's going to cost them a pile of money to run ads for their own products on their own networks - give me a break(ever watched saturday mornings on ABC for example? Let alone Toon Disney(which we don't get here in Canada).

I think we fans have done our part - and we continue to do so - but disney has to do more themselves than just throw product out in the dark and hope people will somehow blindly catch it.
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 1:49:42 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

also i want to let everone know im very sorry for any miss spelld words. i have a very hard time with reading and writting. i know its sad im 27 years old and i still bad at spelling. but the good thing is that im take a spelling class to improve my spelling. wish me luck everone. hope that i learn a thing or to lol. but again sorry if i miss spell anything. i dont mean to.
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 1:48:19 pm EST from 75.6.149.232

good morring everone well more like good afternoon lol

thanks to

matt kerry,anthony tini, and asativa for welcomeing me to the club lol.

i never know about this web site in tell late nigth . you see i was looking for cool new pics for my myspace and at the sametime i was watching gargoyles on the tv anyways i got to thinking that i dont have any garoyles pic so i look up on yahoo look for GARGOYLES PICS and then i found this chat room. i frist i thou to my slfe "oh it must be old and probley no one us it any more" but i stared to read the commnet and i loook at the date and i seen it that people are using it as of today. i was sooooooooooooooo happy.

so i stared leaveing commnet as of last nigth. im sooo happy i found this web site because i found out just late nigth that the tv show gargoyles is out on dvd and on comie book. when i have money save up im buying the dvds and im goin to start to buy the books. ahhhhhhhhh its like i found a new family thats all you guys and girls in the chatroom ;-)

im so hope to found you alll really i'am
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 1:42:51 pm EST from 75.6.149.232

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to respond to the other recent comment.

It's not really surprising that Ducktales, Rescue Rangers and Tale Spin would sell well (Darkwing Duck maybe). I mean, while those shows regardless of how well known they are or aren't, have the big name characters such as, Ungle Scrooge, Huey, Dewy, Louie, Chip & Dale, Baloo, King Louie and Shere Khan.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 1:38:37 pm EST from 71.115.192.199

Greg B> Fair enough, but I was merely curious as to how 1 and 2 of my comments would be problematic for Disney, and that's really the last thing I wanted to say on the matter anyway.


That said, I'm thinking that making it trimonthly my make for an alternative. Maybe not permanent, but to give them time to get the other comics done in advanced.


Also, how idd Bad Guys #1 do in sales?
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 1:31:32 pm EST from 71.115.192.199

Wingless> It is kind of a vicious cycle. Disney doesn't believe that "Gargoyles" can make money so they don't spend the money to advertise it so people aren't aware of it so it doesn't make money. But as both the Greg's have been saying, the problem is that Disney doesn't think spending money to advertise "Gargoyles" is going to net them a big enough return on their investment. Sure, the could get $2 back for every $1 they spend, but the could also put that same money into a more proven property and get $10 back for every $1 they spend. (This has been a gross oversimplification of the economics involved.) Greg W has told us that if Disney had thought that they needed to spend the money to promote "Gargoyles", they wouldn't have been willing to put out the DVDs at all. The reason Disney put out the DVDs was because - for good or for ill - they were told that there was a very active fanbase that would help to promote the DVDs. "TaleSpin" and "Darkwing Duck" may not have their own conventions, but they do seem to have enough casual fans who buy copies of the DVD to merit continuing to produce the DVDs. I haven't seen any more advertising for the other Disney TV shows than I did for "Gargoyles", but Ms. Jane Doe remembers them from when she was younger or at least kind of recognizes it as family friendly Disney fare, so she picks it up for her kids.

Again though, talking about Disney and how frustrating it is that they don't care more about "Gargoyles" and how great it would be if they did this, that, and the other isn't going to help us one iota. It stinks, no doubt, but we can't do anything about it. All we can do is try to be the free advertising that Disney expected.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 1:31:11 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

Wingless > I agree. There's a lot Disney could do that would help out the comics and the DVDs immensely. I also agree that it's stupid that they advertise other products that are probably even LESS valuable than Gargoyles, but won't advertise Gargoyles. I doubt they have a grudge against Gargoyles, but it sure seems like they do.

But, what we as Gargoyles fans have to accept is that even if they could do a lot of things that would make Gargoyles very profitable for them, they won't (for whatever reason). It's up to us. We can't keep talking about what Disney COULD do (there's a LOT of things they could do). We just have to accept that they won't.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 1:11:03 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Siren> Happy birthday!
Meg
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 1:07:02 pm EST from 72.70.238.239

Greg B. All Your comments about Disney are justified. The one factor in all this is that you DO NOT release product without advertising it. Disney heavily advertises all their other DVD's. I've even seen a little advertising for some of the other TV DVD sets. Even if they're simple banner ads on a website. How much would that really cost Disney. The fact is that the big D has always discounted the Gargoyles franchise. Despite the size of the Gathering - are their tale spin or darkwing duck conventions? Get real guys. They're great shows, but Disney has got to get their head on straight and realize that there is more appeal to Gargoyles than any of those shows had. It's not simply a kids show. I know I'm preaching to the converted here, but for crying out loud - how hard would it be to at least get the comic out on time so that it might actually have a chance in succeeding? How hard is it for Disney to put a tiny bit of money into advertising the DVDs? Why release something if you aren't going to advertise. You've got to spend money to make money - and it's like they're treating Gargs as a loss leader. Almost like having a stor stocking it, but never putting it out on the shelves. Out of sight, out of mind.
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 1:03:40 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

Hi, Alicia!

Happy birthday, Siren!
Asatira
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 12:13:33 pm EST from 131.204.97.10

Antiyonder> Dude, I didn't even remember that the question was yours, and when I saw it was, I thought it was worth you re-visiting, so stop taking it personally.

"As far as that particular link goes, have you been keeping track and saving everything I've submitted in the "Ask A Question" section?"

Believe me, I have better things to do. But, like Demonskrye said, it has been stated many times that talking about what Disney should be doing is pointless, yet you often keep bringing it up. It's something that I and others have noticed.

Disney is a business, and not an all powerful gigantic business that can do whatever it wants. Read "Disney War" by James B. Stewart some time for a good picture of how Disney works. Like it or not, "Gargoyles" is not one of their big money makers, we can go on and on about why forever, but that's counterproductive. Those Disney Princess books ARE money makers. Huge money makers. They have finite finances, and finite resources. As a stock holder, and as a former business major myself, I cannot completely fault them for making the bigger money makers a priority.

It sucks, but that's the way it is. We want more "Gargoyles", we need to prove to them it can make money. Season Two Volume One did not make them a lot of money, again, we can all talk about why and how they dropped the ball there, but there is no point to it. It fell to us, and we knew that going in. Now, it's falling to us again with the comic. We need to convince more people that it is out there and to give it a read.

And there is an interest, don't get discouraged if a comic shop says it doesn't sell. A friend of mine reported to me that a comic book store in Brooklyn doesn't carry it because it doesn't sell, yet over at Forbidden Planet in Union Square, they can't keep copies on the shelves for more than a day. If enough people know it's out there and want it, they will give it a try.

But, our best bet right now, is the trade paperback. So, we need to find a way to push that, without being obnoxious about it.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 11:14:41 am EST from 75.56.245.4

Happy Birthday Siren! 29 and holding, right?! :)

Alice, welcome. Please enjoy your time here and spread the word to your friends!

***

I think what might have scared some people away after issue #2 was maybe they thought that the comics would be the retelling of the Goliath Chronicles and they didn't realize it would be new canon storylines starting with issue #3.

I know most of us hate hypotheicals, but I wonder how sales would be now if Greg started with "Invitation Only", and mixed it with the Journey storyline and made it a 5 part story arc instead of a 3 part story arc.

I love what we have, and I love the way it was done so far. I wish it could just thrive like anything else, but it appears that it can't on its own and that sucks.
The Gargoyles Pulse(Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 11:04:46 am EST from 159.240.11.254

Siren> Happy birthday!

alicia> Welcome. ^..^
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 8:29:45 am EST from 199.38.51.134

I'm thinking a part of the sales decline may have to do with some of us fans not buying as many multiple copies. To echo Greg here, I'm not suggesting we all start buying extra copies, but I know that I bought more of Issue#1 than of the later issues. That is why I had so many extras to give away to friends, leave at Starbucks, etc. I think I'll start buying a few more copies from here on out.

The real question is where to buy the copies. Maybe buying from diverse sources is smart. If I get my original copy at the store that means I get to read it the day it comes out and it supports store sales, and maybe at that point I should get any additional copies directly from SLG since I wouldn't mind the wait, and it could be better for them. Some of those copies I could hand out and by the time they get to me I wouldn't be surprised if the next issue was only a short time away from being released.

I think that is my plan.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 8:17:20 am EST from 68.184.215.167

Antiyonder: I think Bishansky's statement was based on the fact that Disney HASN'T done anything. Have you seen any advertisements for the DVDs or the comic? I think what he meant is that the subject has come up before, and the general conclusion is that there are things Disney could do, but they won't. Sucks, but that's the nature of the beast.

Siren: Happy birthday!
Harvester of Eyes
"But see? That's what I'm talking about. Now Venture will Samson after the rest of us and he'll go totally sickhouse on our asses. I like my ass, gentlemen!" -The Monarch
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 8:10:13 am EST from 76.100.245.148

Happy Birthday, Siren and Cloverfield! :)

bluewyvern and Meg> It's a tricky business figuring out where your purchase will have the most impact. This might be something we could ask Dan Vado or Greg about. If I had to guess, I would say that buying in the stores might have the most impact for the single issues. Getting more issues on the shelves increases the possibility that more casual readers will pick it up, and comic shop owners are only going to order more issues if they see the comic selling. For the trade, I would tend to say Amazon, as we can get additional attention for the book if the sales are good enough. (Incidentally, does anyone know how we can get the Amazon page for "Clan Building" updated? It currently seems to say that the trade is already out and will take 1-3 weeks to ship.) But disregard what I say if someone who's closer to the situation says otherwise.

Antiyonder> The thing is, Greg W and Greg B and I and many other people have said many times, including several times this week, that talking about what Disney should be doing is not productive. We could sit around for months saying "Gee, it would be great if Disney sis this or that" and maybe it's true. But they're not going to do it. They're not going to listen to us or Greg or probably even Dan Vado. So while we talk about how great it would be if Disney pushed the show on ToonDisney more or picked up the pace on approvals or lowered the licensing fee, nothing is actually happening and the comic is continuing to be in danger of cancellation. The point is not to talk about what other people could do to save the comic. We have no influence on that. The point is to talk about what WE can do to help save the comic.

Todd> That's why I'm kind of hesitant to mention that the comic is in trouble when talking to the general public. Concentrate on the positive. We have several complete small story arcs in the comics we've already got and we'll have a complete story arc when issue #12 comes out. Again, just get them reading.

Some progress> I posted about the comic on and action figure board I frequent. A guy I know responded and said he was a big fan of the TV show and had no idea about the comic. He's going to check it out. That's one. :)
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 7:55:42 am EST from 209.6.248.33

Siren> Happy birthday. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 7:45:37 am EST from 76.247.60.189

Welcome Alicia!

Happy Birthday Siren!
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 7:35:29 am EST from 68.184.215.167

Sorry for the double post, but I decided to spread the word this morning - and had an opportunity to do so. I recently joined a mailing list that discusses modern-day Arthurian fiction, and a couple of posts (including mine) had gotten to how much ideas in modern Arthurian fiction (such as T. H. White's portrayal of Merlin teaching the young Arthur, or Morgause as an evil sorceress) had permeated the popular consciousness. And I wrote in my most recent reply on the thread:

"I have a friend who's writing a comic book in which King Arthur is currently making a cameo, who carefully avoids modern Arthurian fiction precisely because he wants to keep it from influencing his take on it."

I thought I'd better take the subtle approach - since I know from my own personal experience (especially with telemarketers) - that aggressively spreading the word can prejudice a person against the thing they were spreading the word about, but I'm hoping that at least one person on the list will ask me about the comic, so that I can then explain (including not only a brief account of Arthur's involvement in the Stone of Destiny story in #7-#9 - and maybe also his role in the animated series - but a mention of the trade paperback coming out).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 7:33:02 am EST from 4.244.212.80

Happy Birthday, Siren!

I hope that yesterday's revelation does not lead to sales dropping further. Many people might think "If the comic's struggling and might not get renewed, then I don't want to get involved in it, so I won't buy a copy - or I'll stop buying copies. Then I won't be as devastated when it gets cancelled." (I know that, after reading the same revelation yesterday, I felt tempted to begin distancing myself from the comic - then realized that that wouldn't do it any good.)

I think it likely that the chronic delays are a major reason for the declining sales, but since we can't do anything about that (only Slave Labor Graphics and Disney can solve that problem), we'd better focus on the other reasons.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 7:04:20 am EST from 4.244.212.80

i was read some of the informashion about gargoyles the shows. i feel so stupped i had no idey that they came out on dvd in 2005 im sooooooooooooooo mad im still going to buy the dvds i know its just 2. but still i want the dvds. i remmber when i was 13years old when this show came out awww yes good time good time anyway i would come rigth home from school so i can see my show. sometime i miss the show so i recriod it. i have soooooooooooo miney vhs tipes my friends wanted to us them i seid " BEEP no its my favort show i dont want u to lose them" lol i know i was a little to crazy over this show.
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 7:00:44 am EST from 75.6.149.232

MY bad. i didnt know. i just found this website today so i didnt even read all the stuff thats on this web site didnt mean to up set u. i found u guys because i was looking for pics of gargoysles on yahoo.com,and this chatroom came up i was happy to see it and i sent a commnet. But i didnt even read everthing on the web sit, i still havent . so again im sorry if i seid something that upset u. it was not my Attention :-(
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 6:43:30 am EST from 75.6.149.232

Greg B> As far as that particular link goes, have you been keeping track and saving everything I've submitted in the "Ask A Question" section?
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 6:39:41 am EST from 71.115.192.199

Greg B> Okay, it's time to stop talking about what Disney could do. It's pointless and counterproductive, Disney isn't going to do a damn thing.

Read this: http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=9436


This time however, I wasn't complaining so rubbing my older question in my face is really uncalled for. You could have made you point without digging up that page.

I was merely making a suggestion, not the best ones, but suggestions nonetheless.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 6:18:39 am EST from 71.115.192.199

nigth people. i love this site
alicia - [jcmalice]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 5:46:37 am EST from 75.6.149.232

i love this show i seen it ever nigth on JETIX firt at 12;30am then at 1;30am. i just wish they would have new Epusios i know this show is old like over 14 years old now, but i got piss off when they stop showing this show it was very good. i was telling my friend the other day they should have this show on ADULT SWIM I BET you it would have done good on there and they dont have to make it so kidsish. they can make it even more better. Oh well i guess it will never happen BUT IT WOULD SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO KICK AS IF THEY DID ;-)
alicia - [jcmalice99 at yahoo dot com]
ALICE ;-)
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 5:19:56 am EST from 75.6.149.232

Happy Birthday, Siren!
Spen
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 4:57:56 am EST from 66.43.205.110

Happy birthday! Do something fun today.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 4:01:46 am EST from 208.194.97.9

Happy Burpday!!
Starlioness
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 3:33:38 am EST from 24.18.251.55

Siren - Wow! happy Birthday! Gee, you're not even a thirty something yet. *green with envy and wrinkled with age*
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 1:43:50 am EST from 99.245.254.123

Happy birthday Siren!!
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 1:33:35 am EST from 98.20.133.68

Happy Birthday, Siren!
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 1:28:21 am EST from 75.56.245.4

Today are two very important events today

1.) Cloverfield is out in theaters :D
2.) I was born 29 years ago!
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Fri, Jan 18, 2008 1:24:47 am EST from 68.202.76.113

bluewyvern> I know, it's counterintuitive, right? I actually thought about buying directly from SLG online, too, as the closest comic shop to me is twenty minutes away in good weather and I figured it might count more in the sale register/get SLG more money by cutting out the middleman. But apparently not. :\

The only offhand advantage to buying off shelves that I can think of is that it makes stores purchase more copies (maybe making more money for SLG?), and it gives more people a chance to thumb through it and buy it? It's really frustrating when I go to my local store and they're always like "it's the last copy, it's sold really fast," and I'm like, dude, then buy more.
Meg
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 10:24:00 pm EST from 72.70.238.239

Meg> "However, if anyone has the choice between buying a copy physically and doing it online, do try to buy it in the flesh."

Gee, I figured ordering direct from SLG was the best thing I could do. I figured SLG would get more money and the sale would be more easily counted.

I got my first ones from Amazon -- which is nice for me because I get free shipping -- but they're pretty behind with the newest issues.

It's probably good for shop owners to see copies disappearing from their shelves, though, huh? I'll see if I can find a shop near me...I haven't been in a comic book store in ages, it should be fun.
bluewyvern
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 10:10:26 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

And one other thing I forgot...

When multiple people are involved who all have to say "yes" in order for something to happen, it just takes that much longer for anything to get done.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"No flag, no country. Those are the rules that I just made up." - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 10:00:48 pm EST from 76.205.72.111

Approval probably does involve multiple people. Why do I think there's not a crew of employees specifically assigned to this task and nothing else? Because I work in an office environment myself, and I know what priority level is assigned to tasks that come in for which the company can invoice someone for the time spent on them. Tasks done on overhead are either set aside to be worked on a lull or they are rushed through quickly to get them out of the way. The former happens when there is no set deadline, and the latter happens when their is. Do I know for a fact this is what happens at Disney? No. But it seems more likely than not that it's close to what's going on.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"No flag, no country. Those are the rules that I just made up." - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 9:58:54 pm EST from 76.205.72.111

dph> No problem.

bluewyvern> Even if the online sales were counted, the overall comic sales would still be declining, which is a more worrisome trend than crunching the hard numbers. And even if online sales have picked up relative to the beginning, I don't think they would make up for the "physical" sell decline...and bottom line, SLG knows how much it's selling, and I doubt they would forget to include online stuff, especially from their own site.

All> If you look at the hard numbers provided earlier in the chatroom, we're close, you know? #4, 5, and 6 seem to have leveled off (relatively speaking, the total difference between 4 and 6 is only about 300), so if we can just convince a FEW more people each to buy it, then I think we're somewhat okay. I think Greg is right, we really need to push the TPB and #s8/9--it'll appeal to people who have been "waiting for a trade" or who make a point of only buying trades, and if we can pick 8 and 9 up we'll be in much better shape relative to a renewal.

However, if anyone has the choice between buying a copy physically and doing it online, do try to buy it in the flesh. ;)
Meg
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 9:55:39 pm EST from 72.70.238.239

Antiyonder - <Why don't they just choose and assign a particular group of employees to deal with the approving of the comics?> How do we know that Disney isn't doing that? What I prefer to think is the approval isn't as simple as some of us might think. In my extremely limited imagination, I can't see why it wouldn't take more an average time of 15-20 minutes to approve each page. What I wonder is if there is a deadline for how long Disney can keep the final version of the comic waiting to be approved and then Disney approves/rejects it just before the deadline approaches. Of course, I don't believe in yelling at Disney to approve something when it hasn't arrived yet or it just arrived.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 9:43:39 pm EST from 98.20.133.68

bluewyvern> I'm sure SLG is counting them, it's just that most of the numbers we get to see probably don't factor in those sales.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 9:41:57 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

Patrick> Huh? From Amazon and DIRECTLY from SLG doesn't count in the stats? Is that true? That's a big chunk, surely. That's where I got mine, anyway. How can SLG not count what they sell?

I still think a kind of central promotional webpage would be immensely helpful. I plan on making a blog post soon, and I'd like to have a central portal to link to. Maybe just the S8 main page, but I'd like something more focused on pointing fans to the new merchandise. Any news on that idea?
bluewyvern
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 9:32:41 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

If we haven't learned after twelve years that it's a pointless exercise to sit around and talk about "what Disney could do", then I don't think we're ever going to learn. Antiyonder, both of those suggestions would involve Disney deciding to make "Gargoyles" a priority over other projects. And that simply does not happen in business unless there's immediate profit to be made. They aren't going to dedicate even one employee to the sole task of reviewing the comics. What then would be paying for his or her salary? They're going to continue to give the work to employees who are otherwise busy earning income for the company 40 hours a week and say "oh by the way, look at this when you get a chance."
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"No flag, no country. Those are the rules that I just made up." - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 9:31:12 pm EST from 76.205.72.111

Antiyonder> Okay, it's time to stop talking about what Disney could do. It's pointless and counterproductive, Disney isn't going to do a damn thing.

Read this: http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=9436
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 9:28:12 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

There are two things I see that Disney could do that don't seem very costly.

1. Move Gargoyles to an earlier spot on the schedule, thus ensuring that more people see it and take interest in the series.

2. They take time approving the comics because they focus on other franchises/merchandise that are more of a sure thing. Why don't they just choose and assign a particular group of employees to deal with the approving of the comics?
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 8:39:30 pm EST from 71.115.192.199

Bob> As has been explained, this is basic economics. "Gargoyles" comes with a licensing fee. It is SLG's best selling title, BUT if it's not breaking even with the fee, then it's not profitable.

As I've been saying, the trade is coming out, so we need to push that.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 8:33:16 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

if gargoyles really is one of SLG's most popular comics then i dont think they would drop it, wouldn't they drop the less popular comics 1st.

Also do we know if maybe there are "Packs" of garg. beasts out there that don't belong to a clan? cause i cant see them bring up there #s
bob
no, are ya mad these are your childern... no one thretens my eggs.- princess Katherine- Avalon Part 2
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 8:31:14 pm EST from 66.202.98.86

Todd > There could be any number of reasons for the sales numbers dropping off.

They bought the first few and decided they didn't care for it enough to keep buying it. They've been put off by the delays. They've been put off by the increase in the price. They're "waiting for the trade paperbacks so I can read it all at once" just like they're "waiting for Season 2 Volume 2 so I can get all the DVDs together". Their local shop stopped carrying it, so now they're getting it from Amazon.com or directly from SLG, neither of which are counted by the people who keep the comic sales stats. Their local shop stopped carrying it so they assumed it's been discontinued.

Each of these would have to be countered in a different way, so it becomes that much tougher to come up with one unifying strategy.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"No flag, no country. Those are the rules that I just made up." - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 7:56:06 pm EST from 76.205.72.111

Demonskrye's remark about encouraging people who have gotten discouraged is important. If the sales are falling, that means that people who bought the early issues are not buying the later ones. So we need to address that problem. Why are these people not buying the later issues?

Did they get upset about the delays and decide to give up on the comic? Did they feel disappointed about the writing and art, enough so to decide not to bother continuing to buy new issues? I think we need to find out why these early buyers moved away, and then find a solution for it. Because the problem isn't just spreading the word. The problem is stopping people who've already got the word from dropping out.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 6:40:27 pm EST from 4.244.211.44

Demonskyre >>
"Rebel> I had thought of that to, though Leo and Una would have had to have thrown some really weird genes. He has coloring similar to Una's but I don't see any of Leo in him. I don't think we're going to get a clear answer unless we see two different gargoyles who obviously are his parents or Greg tells us one way or the other in Ask Greg."

In all honesty, even if he is Una's biological son, I doubt that Greg will ever say so specifically. Greg's gotten a lot of questions about who is who's biological child/father/mother/whatever, probably spawned by the few revelations he *did* give us, so I think it's pretty likely that he wants US, the fans, to start thinking "the gargoyle way" and seeing the whole clan as the mothers/fathers, etc.

(Course, that'll never stop us from speculating)
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 6:39:05 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Rebel> I had thought of that to, though Leo and Una would have had to have thrown some really weird genes. He has coloring similar to Una's but I don't see any of Leo in him. I don't think we're going to get a clear answer unless we see two different gargoyles who obviously are his parents or Greg tells us one way or the other in Ask Greg.

Patrick> Yeah I know this isn't anything we haven't been over before and I know some of the fans have already been going above and beyond trying to bring in new blood and promote "Gargoyles", That's why I'm trying to think of new specific methods we could use that we haven't discussed before. That and encourage people who are starting to get discouraged.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 6:12:00 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

comics: *sigh* well this is depressing news
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 6:05:36 pm EST from 64.148.26.148

Neat, now we know the ages of some of the characters. Maybe those can be added to the wiki.

Also, Greg's direction to Hedgecock to take a look at Una for inspiration on the new male London gargoyle adds more weight to the possibility that he could be her son.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 6:03:17 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Demonskrye> Fair enough.

I also recomend wearing Gathering T-shirts and Gargoyles shirts and stuff. Last week I was out on Main Street with my girlfriend and we ran into an old friend of hers. After they reminisced for a few moments he noticed that I was wearing a Gargoyles t-shirt (Actually it was the Gargles-Bad Guys shirt that was given away @ the 2007 Gathering, but he didn't notice the "miss-spelling" till later on) and we got to talking about the show, and I showed him some of the comics. (Which I happened to have on me, I was showing Sarah issue 7, we're both Egyptology majors, and I was arguing the potential for Scota and G) He was very enthusiastic and looked as though he wanted to go buy the comics right then and there. The outlook is still hopefull if you ask me.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 5:49:01 pm EST from 64.105.116.72

The irony is that "spread the word", "bring in the casual fans", and "many people don't know about it yet" are the same things that have been said over and over again about the Gargoyles conventions for the past decade, too. A number of us have already invested a lot more of our time and money into trying to make headway on those fronts than others might consider sane and reasonable.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"No flag, no country. Those are the rules that I just made up." - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 5:44:43 pm EST from 76.205.72.111

Chip> I'm not sure what Greg said at the Gathering you attended, but my thinking is that the "gargoyles" license would continue to cost as much or more if SLG dropped all of their other titles than it does right now. If SLG is paying Disney one lump sum for all four licenses, they probably account for it by dividing the total licensing fee by four and deducting one quarter of the licensing fee from each Disney title. If each one has a separate licensing fee (which is possible, because we know from SLG president Dan Vado that the licenses can be renewed or allowed to expire independently of each other and Disney may consider each on to be worth a different amount), then each title gets its own amount deducted from the profits. Either way, "Gargoyles" is trending towards not making enough money to be worth publishing. If SLG drops the other three titles, you'll have one of two things happen, depending on how the licensing works. If it's a lump sum, Disney will continue charging SLG a quarter of that lump sum for the "Gargoyles" license, if not more. It could be that there's something like a separate fee for just having a Disney license period and then the additional fee for the specific "Gargoyles" license. (I really have no clue how it works; I'm just throwing out possibilities.) If that were the case, the total licensing fee for "Gargoyles" would actually go up, since the one comic would have to absorb the entire Disney fee and not just a quarter of it. If each license is charged a totally separate fee, then the licensing fee would stay exactly the same. Disney would not give them a price break because they are buying fewer licenses. On top of which, if sales are continuing to drop with each issue, a decrease in the licensing fee would only be a temporary fix. Trust me, if the solution was as simple as "dump the titles that don't sell as well", someone at SLG would have thought of it already.

Aside from this, there is very little point in discussing what SLG could do or what Disney could do. We have no control over that. We can say all we want that Disney should approve the books faster or advertise the comic on TV or lower the licensing fee or whatever, but we have no influence there. We can come up with all kinds of things Salve Labor could do, but I don't know if they'd listen and in their case, I think if there was anything they were capable of doing that could help, they'd be doing it. I totally agree that there were mistakes made with this comic, but in this case, we're not going to get anywhere by looking at what went wrong in the past. All we really have control over is what we ourselves do.

Everyone who is a fan of "Gargoyles" needs to be made aware of the comic. I believe this is still a problem; there are people who enjoyed the show but have no clue the comic is out. People who are reading the comic, maybe checking out a friend's copies or flipping through it at the store or - much as I hate this practice - downloading it illegally - may not be aware that the comic's sales are dropping and that it is in danger of ceasing publication. That's why I think every "Gargoyles" related site at the least should have a link where you can buy the comic and/or the trade in a prominent place on the front page, possibly with an explanation of why people need to buy the comic.

Casual fans need to be brought in. I know this is not easy. I know it's discouraging when people say "It was cool when I was a kid, but I don't need to get back to it" or "I liked it, but I don't really read comics" or flat out "I'm just not interested". But if thirty people say "no", maybe the thirty-first will say yes. In comics much more than with DVD sales, small numbers here and there can make a difference. And all you have to do is ask. You don't have to beg. You don't have to go into how sad it is that the comic might not continue. You don't have to describe the entire plot of "City of Stone". Just say "Hey, check this out. Read this comic. Watch this episode. I think you might like it." That's all. They're not doing you a favor or helping a cause; they're just reading a good comic or watching a good TV show. If they like it, great. If not, try someone else. If you want to be trickier, like saying "OK, if you read this comic, I will try that Kaznian restaurant you keep wanting me to go to", fine. But keep it casual. Desperation does not sell comics.

That's really all I've got. I'm not big on letter writing campaigns or stuff like that because they never speak as loudly as the almighty dollar. But above all, let's focus on what we can do here. Because that's the one thing we can directly accomplish.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 5:35:01 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

Before 9/11 inspired a whole new set of rules, it was pretty easy to exist "only on paper" (my favorite example of this can be seen in "The Shawshank Redemption"). Demona could have been doing a lot of financial things from the shadows in the latter half of the 20th century if she had wanted too.

The licenses SLG has are separate. I'm 99% certain I heard Greg say so himself at last year's convention.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"No flag, no country. Those are the rules that I just made up." - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 5:18:27 pm EST from 76.205.72.111

When do you suppose WVRN came to be? My assumption is that it was there before Goliath and company are moved to New York. If that's the case your list of possible owners becomes fairly slim. I think it'd have to be someone tied to Wyvern Castle. That's not Xanatos and that's not Macbeth. That's Demona.

But Mary or maybe Finella (though she comes along after Wyvern is destroyed) are other options I hadn't considered. If it is either (or both!) that would be pretty interesting. I know pre-Gargoyles NYC Demona didn't have her human form, but I'm sure after 900 years she'd found ways to conduct business in a manner that wouldn't require her to reveal her true nature (e.g. the way she paid off the guys who stole Titania's mirror).

Although maybe Macbeth. I'm sure he knew where Demona came from and maybe chose the call letters to get her attention? I dunno. We'll find out eventually.
Gorebash
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 4:38:00 pm EST from 207.206.236.203

dph> I do not believe that you are right, but without something written down we could argue like this all day and get no where. Does anyone else know if Dph is right or not?
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 4:34:26 pm EST from 64.105.116.72

Chip - You're wrong. When I attended the 2006 Gathering, I learned that each license is independent. Each property has its own license: 1 license for Tron, 1 license for Wonderland, 1 license for Haunted Mansion, and 1 license for Gargoyles. Thus, dropping the license for Tron has no effect on the license for Gargoyles.

Meg - Thanks for the information.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 4:24:01 pm EST from 98.20.133.68

I don't know if this is necessarily feasible (or if there is precedent), but to combat all the delays with the book, might it be a smart move to change the schedule to trimonthly? I know there's a chance it might hurt sales the way the delays have, but at the same time, if fully half the books we've gotten up until now have taken at least three months, it might combat the perception of lateness that probably hurts the most. And if the issue is going to come out in March, not February, regardless of the official schedule, it would make sense to inform people of this so they can schedule/know to pick it up in March and don't get confused/annoyed when it's not there in February.

I wonder if SLG's having to reprint #6 lost a lot of money. I bet it did.

I would think another option, if money starts getting real tight, might be printing the main title in B&W? That would pain me, as I think Robby Bevard did a fantastic job coloring #7 and it adds a lot to the story, but I'd rather have a B&W Gargoyles than none at all.

Either way, I would guess this means that we won't see PENDRAGON/TIMEDANCER any time soon. I get the impression SLG/Greg possibly overreached a little with BAD GUYS, and I wouldn't think SLG would license another title until sales pick way back up.

As far as BAD GUYS #2 goes, I wouldn't expect to see it until February T the earliest. Karine Charlebois posted on her blog that she was about halfway finished with it when it was supposed to be done, and this was the end of November. She also stated that it would take a few more weeks to be finished, so projecting that out, she probably finished around the end of December. So I would guess that even February might be stretching it.

Stupid Disney...I don't get them sometimes. Obviously they make money on the Gargoyles license...so you'd think they'd ease up on the licensing fee in order to continue making money on the property, instead of losing the (admittedly minor) money all together if the licensing fee gets to be too much.
Meg
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 3:16:59 pm EST from 72.70.238.239

dph- No, that's not true. Greg said at the 07 Gathering that the four titles are under a sort of Umbrella license. They pay a flat fee for all four titles. I'm wondering if they drop some of the other titles will the "Gargoyles" license cost as much.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 3:12:55 pm EST from 64.105.116.72

Yeah, that'd be the thing making me nervous... it wasn't the jalapena question...
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 2:43:16 pm EST from 68.184.215.167

**Ask Greg related**

Here's the quote that I'm guessing has Matt nervous:Sales on the book have dropped with every issue, which is depressing enough in and of itself. But if the trend continues, then SLG will have no choice but to let the license go when it next comes up for renewal. We're still one of their best-selling books (if not THE best), but most SLG books don't come with a massive license fee draining money away. We should be good finishing out Clan-Building (i.e. issue #12) and Redemption (i.e. Bad Guys issue #6), but there's no guarantee we'll continue beyond that if sales don't pick up -- or at the very least level off.

At what point will Greg stop scripting if sales don't pick up? I'm wondering if he'll be able to start scripting the next story arc for Gargoyles or Pendragon if sales don't pick up.

**End Ask Greg related**

Chip - Each title has a separate license. No title is subsidizing any others.

I won't be able to buy the trade right away, but after I get paid for the February 5th election, I will be able to.

gxb - Do you think that Robby's statement last month meant that at that time work on BG issue #2 wasn't complete?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 2:21:21 pm EST from 98.20.228.106

Asatira: I still think she is much older than she looks.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 2:08:54 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

A bit surprised by Shari's apparent age. I guess it's the make-up and the way she carries herself, but I thought of her as a lot older. Between her goth appearance and her age, no wonder Greg said she wasn't "corporate-genic."
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 2:07:23 pm EST from 131.204.97.10

Toni: Disney doesn't even adverstise the DVD's ... they won't with the comic.

check out Greg's response on the New Gargs and Shari pretty neat.
Starlioness
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 1:56:46 pm EST from 24.18.251.55

It's not definite yet but I might able to come to the Gathering this year as my family got some money coming in. I just got to covince my parents i'll be ok on my own in America, See how much the flight will cost (as i'm flying from UK)and get other things sorted. This could cost me £1000. So i'm keeping my fingers crossed

Any hints could be helpful
Vicky82
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 1:54:26 pm EST from 195.93.21.4

"Is there anyway for Disney to advertise the comic when they are airing the reruns of the show on Toon Disney?"

Sure, if someone ponies up the cash to pay for advertising space.

Folks, we can't count on Disney for this one. The trade is coming out next week, everyone go buy it, encourage your friends to buy it, or get them copies as late Christmas gifts or birthday gifts. That is exactly what I'm doing.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 1:52:58 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

It's frustrating. People that I've talked to have heard of it, but don't care to pick it up now that they are older. I get the typical response, "Yeah it was cool when I was a kid" type of response.

My younger brother is a fan but he doesn't have the stable income to be going out and buying comics. I keep trying to convince him though. At times, it almost seems futile.

Is there anyway for Disney to advertise the comic when they are airing the reruns of the show on Toon Disney?
The Gargoyles Pulse(Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 1:39:35 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

We can't worry about SLG or Disney's problems. Time and again it has shown that fair or not, it is up to us. I'm gonna continue dropping off issues at Starbuck's and libraries. I also put out a couple ads on Craigslist ostensibly looking for fellow Gargoyles fans, but really just to get the word out that the comic exists. My picture on the ads is a Gargoyles logo. Not sure if it'll help, but it can't hurt. I think everyone should put up similiar ads in their area. Even just people responding to it with questions about the series would be good.
We have to be the PR for this thing. There is a lot of us and if we all put a little work into it, I'm sure we can boost sales.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 1:29:34 pm EST from 68.184.215.167

I wonder if the liscence fee would be as high if SLG dropped "Wonderland" "Haunted Mansion" and "Tron".
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 1:24:30 pm EST from 64.105.116.72

PATRICK> Oh, I agree. But there are so many licensed books on the shelves that don't suffer this. IDW with Transformers, Star Trek, 24, and Angel. Dark Horse with Buffy, etc.

SLG knows Disney takes their time with the approvals, and by now they should have learned to be a few books ahead like those other comics I mentioned are.

They have gotten better at this, but, they still have a lot of improvements to make.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 1:04:07 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

Why do we assume that WVRN must be owned by someone from the cast? How do we know that Ted Turner doesn't own it? :P

Unfortunately, delays are inevitable when a second party (i.e., Disney) is involved who has the ultimate authority to review and give approval for publication of each issue but has no incentive to complete those reviews in a timely manner. Disney was paid up front for the license, and when the work arrives on someone's desk, it's low tier priority because those aren't billable hours. The most SLG could do in such a situation is attempt to get two or three issues ahead on the production end, but even that doesn't always work if the reviewer knows you don't "really" need it back right away.


162 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Rarely is the question asked: 'Is our children learning?'" - George W. Bush
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 12:54:18 pm EST from 24.106.128.24

The best bet I can think of right now is to push the graphic novel. It will be out soon, and it will be in major bookstores as well as comic book stores. If your local bookstore isn't carrying it, convince them to.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 12:43:07 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

WVRN> I think we covered just about all possible owner of the station based on the fact that the call letters are a clue to that person's identity. The only other possibility I can think of is Thailog, but i don't think he was at the castle long enough to have enough of an attachment to the castle to name a station after it. I really like the idea that Mary owns it, but we'll just have to see.

Comic Sales> It is concerning, but not surprising, unfortunately. Now we're clear on how "Gargoyles" can possibly be SLG's current best selling title and still potentially not be making enough money to merit the renewal of the license. I think most certainly the delays have hurt the book. There's certainly precedent for comics having an issue #1 and never making it to #2. Some of the #1 to #2 drop could be the remnants of the speculator market, but I'm guessing a lot of readers and store owners just figured that #2 wasn't coming out at all. But focusing on that or Season 2 Part 2 not being out, or the lack of advertising or whatever isn't going to help us now.

I think the least we can do is for anyone who has a "Gargoyles" related website to post an explanation of the comic's potential fate and possibly provide a link to a site where people can buy it. I'm going to start a discussion about putting something like this up on the main page of GargWiki. If you have a blog, do the same. If you have any kind of site that gets some kind of traffic, do the same. If you're on a message board where you think people might respond to the appeal, do the same. It's simple and it can help.

Any other ideas, other than what we've discussed before?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 12:38:29 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

Matt - care to be specific which answer makes you nervous? Enquiring minds wanna know :-)
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 12:31:28 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

KingCobra> I'm not saying that Angela and Demona look identical, and never have. I'm merely stating that their differences in wardrobe helped to further differenciate them as characters visually in addition to their coloration, and that I preferred Angela's old attire to what she's currently wearing.
Echowarrior - [WARendfeld at aol dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 12:21:48 pm EST from 161.32.228.101

It's hard to convince people to pick up a comic book when it has problems coming out in a timely fashion like this one does. I've been saying this for a while, we're not the ones they have to worry about, we need those other readers. The casual readers.

SLG is a very tiny company, they have to compete for space and orders with not only Marvel and DC, but with other third party companies who are much larger than they are. IDW, Dark Horse, Image, etc.

The book being constantly late really does not help. The trade is coming out, so we can only hope that it picks things up, since it will be more acceptable.

But, I really am convinced that this book's greatest enemy is, and I'm not blaming anyone or pointing fingers, this is simply a statement of fact, the book's constant lateness.

Six month wait for #2. #3 was late by a month, so was #6. Bad Guys #1 was delayed a month. Hell, even the trade was supposed to be out a month ago.

Everyone involved works hard, but we don't have the clout that say, Mark Millar, Joss Whedon or Brian Michael Bendis have for this to be such a regular occurrence.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 12:20:05 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

If anyone's curious about the comic numbers, here they are for #1 through #5: http://www.comicbookpage.com/SalesEstimates/ChartDefinitions/ShowTitleChart.php?Chart=Title-CBG&Publisher=Slave%20Labor&Title=Gargoyles

According to http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=2454 #6 sold 5,433, so it was a little more precipitous than from #4 to #5. Bad Guys #1 sold 4,973 on the same chart even though they didn't come out in the same month, so I don't know if these are total numbers or what. Not that any of this is relevant to Greg's overall concern, but I thought it was interesting.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 11:41:18 am EST from 128.101.32.234

Greg's latest response to a question has me a bit nervous...
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 11:16:53 am EST from 68.184.215.167

Actually, I think Phil might be on the right track with Mary. Interesting.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 10:55:00 am EST from 68.184.215.167

Matt> Well, it's a radio station, and the spell had to be seen too. She might not have had access to TV cameras, or the facility for a live feed, or the ability to take the channel(s) over. Or she's only part-owner and whoever else has interest would have started asking uncomfortable questions about use of company property. Or she didn't want Xanatos to know she had such resources.

Or you could be right.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 10:49:01 am EST from 199.38.51.134

Good questions, Matt. Since Greg was evasive about Xanatos, Demona became the next best choice. Who else is there that had a connection to Wyvern? Macbeth came along much later, Katharine and the others are on Avalon... Mabye it's Mary, Tom's mother. She has to have been doing something during the last twenty years. Hmmm...
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 10:42:53 am EST from 134.215.196.82

I dunno. Saying Demona owns WVRN is like saying she is in the Illuminati. I can't see her being that closely tied to a human thing like that.

Besides, if she owned WVRN, why did she need Xanatos' access to Pack Media Studios to cast her spell in "City of Stone"?
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 10:35:16 am EST from 68.184.215.167

Maybe Demona owns WVRN? That was my thought, too, after reading Greg's response. Since he wouldn't confirm or deny my assumption that it was Xanatos, there's either some big secret attached to it or I'm just wrong. I find the latter case is so often true.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 9:14:35 am EST from 134.215.196.82

It would seem to me that WVRN would be owned by Demona.
Gorebash
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 8:44:20 am EST from 207.206.236.203

I checked the names of characters in the more famous Ed Wood films on IMDB and still nada. My best guess is that it's a name listed on a tombstone in either "Plan 9 from Outer Space" or "Bride of the Monster" that gets unintentionally knocked over a typical example of Ed Wood filmmaking. I don't have either film, so it'd be up to someone else to confirm this.

It is possible that Greg didn't recall what film it was at the time, but has since looked it up. Or maybe he still doesn't know, but he's added Mr. Blosa to the timeline nonetheless.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 8:06:04 am EST from 209.6.248.33

Hmm. I also googled around a little, with no success. But if it helps, Greg's ramble ( http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=194 ) has it "Edgar", not "Edger", which might help a little. And he said it was from an Ed Wood film.

Do you think he's pretending when he says he can't remember?
bluewyvern
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 5:10:51 am EST from 208.194.97.9

dhp> Sorry Wikipedia Results were zero too.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 4:20:52 am EST from 64.105.116.72

dph> Dammit.

Dunno what to tell you then.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 4:14:56 am EST from 76.247.60.189

http://www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=Edger+Blosa&x=16&y=13 <- King Cobra, this is the results off of searching that place. Nothing exact yet.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 4:02:54 am EST from 98.20.228.106

dph> Try doing a character search for "Edger Blosa" at IMDb.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 3:42:47 am EST from 76.247.60.189

We don't know. Google has been of no help on that one...his name was on the tombstone that Renard knocked over when he was in control of the Golem. It was a tribute to some movie according to Greg, but I don't know what movie or who he was. Zilch. Greg knows but he's not saying
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 3:37:19 am EST from 64.105.116.72

Remind me, again, who is Edger Blosa? The name showed up on the timeline again.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 3:32:24 am EST from 98.20.228.106

Ahhh thank you for making that clear Rebel. I still stand by my original assertion though, if the Humility Spell slows the wear on clothes, Demona had no need to change her look till Puck's spell was put in place.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 3:20:55 am EST from 64.105.116.72

Matt> "I wonder if any Clans simply refuse to wear clothing."

Interesting. If any clan did, I bet Loch Ness would be at the top of that list.

I'm not proposing that the Wyvern clan start wearing human clothes -- although I do think that the Mirror gargs and fanart and all looks pretty nice -- but that they wear clothes more like modern gargoyles and less like medieval gargoyles. They can still stay true to their culture while updating their look. (Well, global gargoyle culture, anyway -- I suppose Scottish gargoyle culture went into stasis along with them.) Ishimura in particular has got it going on. Those abbreviated unisex kimono garments are pretty flattering.

Though I don't think it would be wholly inappropriate for the Wyvern clan to replace their loincloths with, let's say, human *inspired* clothing. The Trio in particular has shown a penchant for imitation and modernization (sunglasses, trenchcoats, leather jackets). I think they'd look good in something like a knee-length cargo short, which should suit their warrior needs.

Mostly, I want the fashion to make sense, though. There's something strange going on in the fashion department at Gen-U-Tech, for instance. Who decided on those peculiar costumes for the mutates and clones? Talon's garb particularly bothers me, but they all look like superhero rejects with those leotard things. (Mutates don't even have tails, they could easily wear pants, and Maggie looked much better in a skirt.) It's always been a problem of mine with the comic book aesthetic -- why would someone with newfound crimefighting powers also take a sudden interest in multicolored spandex? -- and it might be why I wasn't as amused as some at the appearance of the Tasmanian Tiger. The parodic intent wasn't clear enough and it was just too close to something we *could* be expected to take seriously in this occasionally-too-Marvel-for-my-tastes universe.

But, like I said, except for some new Elisa wear and Timedancer duds for Brooklyn, I don't expect to see much in the way of new clothes for anyone, so this is mostly academic. And indulgent.
bluewyvern
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 2:40:46 am EST from 208.194.97.9

I can see the Clan donning special dress for certain occasions (Halloween, Brook with his jacket and helmet in "Temptation", Broadway with his trench and fedora in "Silver Falcon", etc), but the Clan wearing human clothing is silly for one reason I'm surprised no one else has pointed out yet. These are warriors. They are raised as warriors, they live as warriors and they die as warriors. The Clan raises the hatchlings and trains them. They are not gonna be running around in excessive clothing because their bodies need to be free to move, minor additions to simple clothing like armor or whatever is obviously possible, but jeans and stuff, that is just silly. Furthermore, Greg has said that gargoyles were never big on clothing in the first place. It was a human that cast the Humility Spell and it was humans that probably demanded or urged gargoyles to wear clothes. Even in 994, gargoyles wore far far less clothing than even the least well off of the humans. Clothing is like naming, a human invention which gargoyles probably take because it is addictive and once you start you can't stop. I wonder if any Clans simply refuse to wear clothing.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 1:09:38 am EST from 68.184.215.167

Brooklyn was badass in Future Tense, and I hope he comes back looking like that. Hopefully his new found happiness with Katana and friends doesn't make him too cocky. It'll be nice if our second in command comes back very wise and very humble from his experience. The deeper we get into the comic, the more and more I miss the voices. I find it a lot easier to know how someone is feeling when I hear them say it instead of reading it. Greg has been able to express how his characters feel so far, so I'm not worried about the future storylines, I just miss the voice talent.
The Gargoyles Pulse (Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 1:06:06 am EST from 70.15.84.29

Battle Beast> I recall seeing him in 'The Client' and 'Apt Pupil'.

May Brad RIP.

July 1982 - January 2008.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 12:37:06 am EST from 76.247.60.189

I think Ozzie meant, without being in a 1000 year long stone sleep like Goliath and company were. Goliath and the gang have an excuse not to have ever changed clothes--from their point of view, they've lived normal lifespans and all. But Demona's been alive for sooo long.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 12:31:50 am EST from 24.227.200.138

King Cobra> That is sad. I remember him from "Tom and Huck," a movie I saw years ago... only 25... *Sigh* is right.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 12:30:39 am EST from 161.184.65.92

Ozzie> Because as I said, she's been alive over 1000 without being in stone sleep.

What? Demona has too been going into stone sleep. She went into stone sleep in "Long Way Till Morning" as well as several of the "City of Stone" episodes. Puck's spell was a recent addition. Thus if...(as we speculated) the Humility Spell prevents wear and tear on clothes (or at least slows it down) then Demona had very little reason to change her wardrobe after a 1000 years. Gargoyles may not be big on clothes at all, after all, they've only been able to wear them comfortably for the last 2 millenia, a rather short time in the grand sceme I figure that the idea of changing her look simply never occurred to her.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 12:07:34 am EST from 64.105.116.72

Off-topic> Everyone hear what happened to Brad Renfro?

*sighs*

A talented actor who was attempting to clean himself up. He will be missed.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Jan 17, 2008 12:07:12 am EST from 76.247.60.189

Harvester, I wasn't saying Demona should wear human clothing. I just ment, I'm surprised she hasn't mixed things up alittle bit like the things you see the other clans wearing. Because as I said, she's been alive over 1000 without being in stone sleep. You think she'd get bored of what she wears. Or maybe even just design some kind of Gargoyle armor to help in her battle against the humans.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 10:23:06 pm EST from 69.14.122.91

When it was animated, there was a very good reason for keeping them same, and that was to keep the model sheets consistent throughout the series. With the comic, while they're likely to keep to certain designs, there's probably more leeway for allowing clothing changes. So it's always possible we'll see Elisa in something other than her red coat, black shirt, and jeans. That said, I agree with Ozzie that there's not much of a need, or IC a desire, to really change the clan's clothing. It's what they're familiar with and what they prefer to wear. I can see them updating the materials and maybe the cut of their clothes as they go through wear and tear, but not really a need to make a drastic change. It's fun to do fanart of them in modern clothes, but I just don't see the need within the universe.
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 8:06:16 pm EST from 75.143.99.53

Angela's attire is only modern compared to the rest of the clan. They're stuck in the 10th century while she's wearing an 11th century Katharine of Avalon original. :P
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"I've always wondered what it'd be like if we had tails. Would it be legal to leave it out, or would you have to tuck it in?" - Gallagher
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 7:37:24 pm EST from 76.205.72.111

Bishansky: Exactly. They still have their own culture, and if what we've seen in the Gargs universe is any indication, they have no intention of giving that up. Most of the clans have adopted names, but probably so that things will be easier for the writers. ( ;

Ozzie: I find it interesting that when Demona changes at night, she changes back into her standard evening attire. Which doesn't surprise me. She strikes me as someone who would wear human clothing out of necessity only, anyway.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I got a circle that's the same as yours. It may be bigger, but I've more to lose. Who's the luckier man, me or you?" -Ian Anderson
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 7:20:08 pm EST from 71.62.198.251

I think one major reason the Manhattan clan does not have more modern clothing. The other Gargoyles in the world, have the advantage of not having been in a stone sleep for 1000 years. Their generation is from modern times. The Manhattan clan was frozen in stone sleep, they still don't understand certain things about the modern world.

They've always dressed the way they do, so they probably haven't even thought about changing the way they dress. If they ever do, it'll probably be due to a suggestion from Elisa.

The one gargoyle I'm surprised never changes her wardrobe up is Demona. With how long she's been alive, you think she'd get sick of having the same look.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 6:54:24 pm EST from 69.14.122.91

Honestly, I'd rather they didn't. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But, if we must. Brooklyn's "Future Tense" look seems the way to go.

No leather jackets, please.

::Points to his sig::
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 6:32:50 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

so how would everyone perceive more 'modernized' attire for our favorite loin-cloth loving clan? I think, though it's a human item, Brooklyn would like a new leather jacket- he did don it himself. Angela's attire is pretty human-ish and modern as they are. what does everyone think? how could the clan modernize?
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 6:29:23 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

It's a peeve of mine when the gargoyles get turned into humans with wings. I don't like seeing them in human-style clothing. More modern is fine, but human style, no.

Honestly, do we really want to see Brooklyn in Levis and an alligator shirt? I know I don't.

I just hate it when people seemingly want to take the gargoyles' culture away from them. I see it in the fandom all the time from their fashion to the way they raise their hatchlings and other things.
Greg Bishansky
"Leonardo was a great Italian, and that was our name originally, Leonardo. But many years ago, when my grandpa came over from Sicily, they changed it at Ellis Island to Leotardo. Because they're stupid, that's why, and jealous. They disrespected our proud Italian heritage and named us after a ballet costume." - Phil Leotardo
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 6:01:15 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

Some recent revelations from Ask Greg, courtesy of a question by me:

Demonskrye asks:

Given that Bronx and Boudicca mated very shortly after their first meeting, I'm guessing gargoyle beasts are a lot more casual about mating than gargoyles are. So I have a few questions about gargoyle beast mates:

1) Do they mate for life?
2) Do they generally choose new mates if their mates dies before them?
3) Are they monogamous?
4) Do Bronx and Boudicca feel sad at all about being separated after they mated?

Greg responds...

1. Yes.
2. No.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.

I'm basing this -- at least to some extent -- on some research I did on wolves back in the early nineties. But some of this, I'm just making up as I go along.

So despite being OK with mating a fairly short time after meeting, gargoyle beasts appear to be just as committed to mating for life as gargoyles are. It's a little depressing to think that Bronx and Boudicca feel sad about their separation. I had always thought that their loyalties to their respective clans outweighed their desire to be together and I still kind of feel that's the case. But it's also possible that, after so many return trips to Avalon, neither one was aware that they would eventually be apart for a very long time. I don't know if they'll ever be permanently reunited, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Manhattan clan ends up with at least one of Bronx and Boudicca's pups. Given that Avalon send you where you need to be and gargoyle beasts do apparently take just one mate for their whole lives, I imagine that the two will be skiffing back and forth over the course of their lives when it comes time for them to mate again.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 5:52:56 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

I don't think it's likely that we'll see a change to more "human" clothing among any clan. Gargoyles are still their own culture. They have different systems of values and beliefs than humans do. That's where so much of their appeal comes from.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I got a circle that's the same as yours. It may be bigger, but I've more to lose. Who's the luckier man, me or you?" -Ian Anderson
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 5:48:39 pm EST from 71.62.198.251

"Here we see lots of gargoyles in human clothing, and a lot of them look pretty good, especially Elisa!"

Ugh, I totally disagree (no offense, we're all entitled to our opinions). Elisa did look good, but I think that's largely because she still looked mostly like Elisa, so we were accustomed to seeing her wearing those clothes. But as for all the others--I thought they looked horrible! I hope we NEVER see the Manhattan gargoyles (or any other gargoyle clan) making a permanent change to human clothing.

I do agree that some of the other clans had clothes that I really liked--but for the most part, they still weren't wearing "human" clothes. That's the key difference. More modern is fine, but never too human.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 5:32:55 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

on the clothing vein. I'd love to see some more modern clothing the Manhattan gargoyles because the other clans around the world have more modern (comparatively) clothing also. Japanese gargoyles had full clothing (male and female), London gargoyles had full clothing. Even the Mayans (cept Zafiro- but he's another story all together), though very aboriginal in nature, had more. I can just picture the conversation Griff had with Brooklyn when he went to Manhattan
Brooklyn: "Dude, nice leather!"
Griff: "I'm glad you like it my friend. I forgave Goliath's Loincloth in London 'cause I knew he was traveling and all, but what's with the skivvies? It's 1996, not 996."

Just my thoughts
work keeping me away from chat room :(
chris
why do we build castles in the sky?
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 5:14:07 pm EST from 66.211.201.24

Clothing:
I thought I would bring up the episode, The Mirror.
Here we see lots of gargoyles in human clothing, and a lot of them look pretty good, especially Elisa!

Also, Griff has fairly modern clothing.
We've seen Manhattan gargoyles wear leather jackets or trench coats.

And it would seem the humility spell doesn't give amazing restorative powers to clothing. I'm pretty sure Broadway has gone through at least one trench coat...
Sebastian
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 5:08:54 pm EST from 128.12.69.35

"The true reason why characters rarely change clothes in cartoons and comics and because a new design every show/issue would be a nightmare for the artists."

I know. It's just fun to speculate about these things. But, if gargoyles were real and stone sleep did indeed have a cleansing effect (on both the gargoyle and the clothing), then I imagine they probably wouldn't bathe or change clothes. If I were in their shoes, I doubt I would.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 4:48:05 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

"...and pray that there aren't any continuity errors or hugely off model drawings when the animation comes back from overseas."

That reminds me TGC for some odd reason... Anyway... I'd like to think that more animation can be done here in the US than overseas, but the chances of that happening aren't very good, especially when competing with the likes of Japan and Korea... :/
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)> Ripping DVDs to make a music video...
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 4:44:43 pm EST from 72.199.225.9

Clothing: For some reason, the image of gargoyles in modern clothing is really off-putting to me. I see it everywhere in fanart that I'm just wishing somebody would design something more along the canonical, traditional lines, unless they're drawing a speculative thing. In the future, gargoyles might be wearing modern clothing, but it would take a long time.

I'm boring: I use the "it's a cartoon" excuse for why characters don't upgrade their wardrobes and how they keep them clean.

Also, Angela's collar is just cover-canon, right? I look at the interior art, and she doesn't have the collar or the deep cleavage, just the midriff
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 4:33:50 pm EST from 142.13.23.62

Echowarrior> So her purple skin and dark hair doesn't help distinguish her from Demona?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 4:24:38 pm EST from 76.247.60.189

If it helps anyone, I think there's a good chance Brooklyn will add to his attire over his Timedancer adventures.

Though admittedly, I wish the full extent of Angela's wardrobe change had just been the addition of the collar. The one-piece dress helped to better distinguish her from Demona, at least to me.
Echowarrior - [WARendfeld at aol dot com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 4:09:47 pm EST from 161.32.228.101

Ozzie Arcane> I think "Xiaolin Showdown" is helped in this case by the art style being cartoonier and thus somewhat easier to animate in general, and that fact that it would probably not matter if Kimiko showed up in a different outfit than what the artists originally intended. Normally, if you have a costume change as simple as Elisa taking off her jacket, you have to make a model sheet of Elisa without her jacket, get that model sheet to the studio, make sure that everyone working on that episodes knows exactly what shots she has her jacket off in and what shots she has it back on for, and pray that there aren't any continuity errors or hugely off model drawings when the animation comes back from overseas. Giving characters different outfits on a regular basis ad further complications to the already complicated process of animating for television. It may stand out a little more when you have an animated show with a more real-world setting and characters, but most of the time, you can trust that viewers will just suspend their disbelief and not wonder why the characters seem to wear the same thing all the time.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 3:46:48 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

Patrick - "The true reason why characters rarely change clothes in cartoons and comics and because a new design every show/issue would be a nightmare for the artists."

The funny thing is though, in Xiaolin Showdown they do the exact opposite with one of the charactes. They leave the temple basicly every episode and every time they leave the temple, Kimiko suddenly has a new outfit and hairdo. Not sure if the idea is ment at a jab at women's love of clothing or what.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 2:03:51 pm EST from 69.14.122.91

The true reason why characters rarely change clothes in cartoons and comics and because a new design every show/issue would be a nightmare for the artists.

Most human clothing wouldn't work for gargoyles anyway, because pants are not made to accommodate tails and knee spurs, shirts are not made to accommodate wings, and not even Al Bundy could figure out how to get Angela's feet into a pair of size 8 heels.

163 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Rarely is the question asked: 'Is our children learning?'" - George W. Bush
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 12:47:14 pm EST from 24.106.128.24

Rebel> Greg's plans could have changed considerably since then. "Pendragon" is not its own full series at this point; it's a potential spin-off miniseries. I imagine it will be a little while before we meet either Duval or Merlin (at least in the present, though I could well be wrong), but the stories could easily be folded into the main book rather than being saved for the upcoming "Pendragon" miniseries or another one even further in the future.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 10:21:53 am EST from 209.6.248.33

Just read this in Ask Greg, in his ramble on Pendragon:

"NOTE: I was considerably less worried about adding Blanchfleur , Merlin and Duval to the cast, as we would be introducing them IN Pendragon."


Hmmm. I kinda figured we would meet Duval before Pendragon. Oh well.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 10:00:07 am EST from 24.227.200.138

Echowarrior> Great thoughts. However, you said:

"So, what do we know for certain? The Stone will make it to Scotland, based on both the Timeline and Real Life. Beyond that, I think these events may occur;
1. The destruction of Coyote 5.0 (Very likely)
2. The reunion of Arthur and Merlin (Possible)
3. A reappearance by Coldstone and Coldfire, and perhaps their return to the Manhattan Clan (Possible)"

I very much agree with #1 and I believe I was the first person in here to mention the possibility of #3, but I think #2 is very unlikely. Arthur and Griff will be finding Merlin in "Pendragon". It seems too big of a story to have as a throwaway here. Arthur may be after the Stone because of something to do with finding/freeing Merlin, but I can't see it happening in "Gargoyles". For one thing, it seems Arthur and Griff will only find Merlin AFTER they are joined by Blanchfleur, and I don't think that has happened yet. Also, we know that Shari is telling the history of the Stone, among other things, to Thailog. I think Cu Chullain and Merlin's appearances in #8 will be through Shari's tales, esspecially because we still do not know why the Stone was in England in the 5th Century (when Arthur pulled Excalibur from it). I think Merlin will be linked to the Stone at that point.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 8:52:47 am EST from 68.184.215.167

You'll all have to forgive me some useless speculation. Please bear with me and correct me if I'm wrong.

I've been giving a lot of thought to the current story in the Gargoyles comics revolving around the Stone of Destiny, as well as all the players involved. Here's what we know.

1. MacBeth wants to see the Stone safely returned to Scotland, and has Hudson and Lexington as backup.
2. Xanatos is on a mission for the Illuminati, and has Coldsteel and Coyote 5.0 working under him as a contingency measure.
3. Arthur is in London, allied with some, if not all, of the London Clan.
4. Thailog is being informed of the Stone of Destiny's origins by Shari.

Now, some speculation based on what we knew before this storyline.

Xanatos, Thailog and Shari are all members of the Illuminati. As the former is in Britain and the latter two are discussing the Stone, coupled with the identity of one of the two highest-known Illuminati members (Mr. Duval, AKA Percival), it's a safe assumption that the Illuminati is interested in obtaining the Stone, fully aware of it's connection to King Arthur. Sending two of its more devious lower-eschelon members after it (Xanatos and Thailog) makes perfect sense, as the two are clearly smart enough to obtain it. Coldsteel and Coyote 5.0 are muscle, or at the very least a contingency. But why are they after it?

Presumably for the same reason as Arthur. Merlin is mentioned in the solicit for #8. As Merlin was sealed away in his Crystal Cave, it's possible that the Stone may somehow be able to aid in his release. That would explain why Arthur seeks it.

The solicit for #8 also mentions Cuchullain in addition to all the other parties involved. We know the Stone passed through Ireland, and may well have been there in Cuchullain's time. The exact reason for his attempt at claiming it remains to be seen, but there's a plausible reason at the least.

While they haven't been mentioned in the solicits, Coldstone and Coldfire have been mentioned as well in the comic, and even appeared. I doubt this was coincidence; both have been tracking Coldsteel for some time. His presence in London may well lead to them reuniting with Hudson and Lex, and thus potentially their reunion with the Manhattan Clan. Coldstone's body is mechanical, after all. He need not be eliminated, just incapacitated.

So, what do we know for certain? The Stone will make it to Scotland, based on both the Timeline and Real Life. Beyond that, I think these events may occur;

1. The destruction of Coyote 5.0 (Very likely)
2. The reunion of Arthur and Merlin (Possible)
3. A reappearance by Coldstone and Coldfire, and perhaps their return to the Manhattan Clan (Possible)

Still plenty of questions though. Who's Amp? And why are those shoes so important?

Just food for thought.
Echowarrior - [WARendfeld at aol dot com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 8:32:47 am EST from 161.32.228.101

Taleweaver> I see your point, but I think it's stretching things a bit to say that "TransFormers" animated includes a "trio of young troublemakers". Maybe you could fit Bumblebee and Sari into that category, but I'm not sure Bulkhead quite works and Prowl is most certainly above that kind of behavior. Though interestingly enough, my husband describes Ratchet's voice as "Corey Burton doing his best Ed Asner" (though not so much Ed Asner as Hudson). Make of it what you will.

But seriously, we're just dealing with a bunch of very common archetypes: the idealistic young hero/leader, the grizzled veteran, the almost to enthusiastic younger member of the team, the window character.

Though to ass to the conspiracy theories, did I mention that the Marina Sirtis character in "Mass Effect" is blue skinned? She had a couple of lines about the joys of motherhood that gave me a chuckle (though less so when I kept hearing them over and over because I kept dying). I doubt the actual character is at all based on Demona, but I do kind of wonder if the voice director on the game might have heard Sirtis's work on "Gargoyles", just because I don't know of her doing that much other voice work.

*******MASS EFFECT SPOILERS BEGIN*************
I unfortunately has to shoot this character last night due to her being under the mental influence of the main bad guy and unable to stop herself from trying to kill me and my team. But she got a nice death scene in before she went. Still, it's kind of sad that I won't be hearing her voice in the game anymore. Maybe I'll go see what Keith David is up to.
********MASS EFFECT SPOILERS END************
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 8:00:55 am EST from 209.6.248.33

REBEL - I especially hope we never see Bronx wearing clothes (though I don't think that would ever happen - for one thing, the person trying to stuff him into a suit would probably not survive).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 6:30:00 am EST from 4.244.211.125

Guess not...oh well. That's what I get for being nocturnal
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 5:07:08 am EST from 64.105.116.72

I know it's late but is anyone online right now?
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 4:52:03 am EST from 64.105.116.72

http://previews.diamondcomics.com/public/default.asp?t=1&m=1&c=6&s=449&ai=0 <- Shows what's expected the next week. The page is called Upcoming Releases.

http://previews.diamondcomics.com/public/default.asp?t=1&m=1&c=6&s=428&ai=65208 <- Shows what's coming out this week. This page is called New Releases.

So they took the content that was on "New Releases" and put it on two pages and yes the html pages are working.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Jan 16, 2008 12:31:34 am EST from 98.20.228.106

"Angela, at least, has changed clothes since we met her. Although I've always hoped that the gargoyles might eventually adopt more modern fashions someday, especially now since they will be more visible to the public and are back at the castle with all of Xanatos's resources at their disposal. They have at least one personal gargoyle tailor now to make custom Halloween costumes for them. I think Greg's said that costume upgrades are not in the plans, though. Shame. I'm a little sick of loincloths."

I wouldn't be opposed to a costume change...of sorts...however, I'd still very much want them to have a somewhat traditional look. As an example, Brooklyn's future tense look--he's combined elements of both the traditional gargoyle look as well as some more futuristic things. Demona's future tense look is a good example as well, as is Thailog's current attire (well...sorta).

If there ever are costume changes, what I really DON'T want to see is gargoyles wearing contemporary "human" clothes. I'd hate to see gargoyles in jeans, swim trunks, tuxes, suits, hats, shorts, human dresses, mini-skirts, etc. Something different would be fine, but not too "human".
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 11:02:03 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

I've been thinking about it recently and came to the conclusion that stone sleep is, indeed, cleansing/laundering, as any dirt or impurities are cast off with the stone skin. Since the healing is an internal, biological process, though, unconnected to the humility spell, I have trouble extending it to the repair of materials. Healing is the repair of living cells, that's it.

Maybe gargoyles actually do replace their clothes periodically. Demona's the only one we've actually seen wearing the same clothes for centuries, and maybe she's just really attached to the outfit and makes a new one that looks just like it every so often. I can see her being fetishistic like that. Her clothes did look more tattered when we saw her old and white-haired with her new clan, didn't they? She probably replaced them afterward.

Angela, at least, has changed clothes since we met her. Although I've always hoped that the gargoyles might eventually adopt more modern fashions someday, especially now since they will be more visible to the public and are back at the castle with all of Xanatos's resources at their disposal. They have at least one personal gargoyle tailor now to make custom Halloween costumes for them. I think Greg's said that costume upgrades are not in the plans, though. Shame. I'm a little sick of loincloths.

One other conclusion from the stone sleep/cleaning ramble...the concept of bathing must be pretty foreign to gargoyles. I mean, the Wyvern clan at least is from the dark ages, so it's already pretty foreign (people might have been persuaded to bathe once a year, if they weren't too afraid their spirit would be washed away), but for the gargoyles it must be even more foreign than THAT. I wonder if they'd ever wash off if they ever got really dirty in a night, or if they wouldn't even think of it and just wait until dawn...

(What sparked this? I was actually imagining Elisa and Goliath making it back to her apartment after The Journey, and Elisa being hesitant about a blood-and-dirt-encrusted Goliath collapsing on her nice clean couch...her proposing that they get him cleaned off, and him being a little confused by the very concept...)
bluewyvern
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 10:48:01 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

I did some research on the tengu recently, and came across this story about them. According to legend, in feudal Japan, there were once two clans engaged in a bitter feud: the Taira clan and the Minamoto clan. The Taira clan got the upper hand over the Minamoto clan, when the Taira leader killed the Minamoto leader, Yoshitomo, and Yoshitomo's young son, Yoshitsune or Ushiwaka (depending on which version of the story you read), was forced into hiding in a remote monastery. There he met the tengu who lived in the hills nearby, and who taught him Bushido; Yoshitsune became proficient enough to be able to overthrow the Taira clan and restore his own clan's fortunes.

Since we know from the end of Bad Guys #1 that "tengu" is a term for Japanese gargoyles, I wonder if we might see some version of this story as an event in the Ishimura clan's past - maybe Brooklyn might take part of it during his Timedancing visit to feudal Japan (the same visit where he meets Katana).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 10:12:52 pm EST from 4.244.215.73

Or rather just how powerful mixing magics can be. The Roman Magus combined a piece of mortal sorcery (the Grimorum) with Third Race sorcery (the Eye of Odin) and a combination piece (the Phoenix Gate, a piece of Third Race sorcery with a mortal incantation). Mixing magics may be dangerous, but it is also incredibly powerful. Look at the Humility Spell, look at the Phoenix Gate, look at the Archmage+. They are what mixing magics can accomplish. Knowing that, one can see why the allure of doing so is so strong despite the risks.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 9:59:25 pm EST from 68.184.215.167

Yeah, I hope so too. I think the humility spell just goes to show how truly powerful (in the gargoyles universe) mortal magic can be.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 9:45:00 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

I really hope we get to see the whole Humility Spell business in Timedancer or wherever eventually. It is one interesting spell.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 9:43:26 pm EST from 68.184.215.167

I think it all depends on the wording of that humility spell that was cast. Does it actually make their clothes a part of them during the day (which is what I'm betting on), or do they merely turn to "stone" with them?
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 9:14:26 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

I can undertand why the clothes might be cleaner, but I can't see how stone sleep would repair them or anything like that. I think something like their very simple clothes are, very simply, replaced from time to time.
I doubt Demona is still in the exact same two-piece that she wore in 994.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 9:08:28 pm EST from 68.184.215.167

Demonskrye: That would make sense. Their clothing turns to stone along with them, and it's not true stone, per se. So if it did something to restore their clothes, as well, it wouldn't surprise me. It would also explain how the rest of the 23rd Precinct never noticed any sort of smell, since it's unlikely that the gargoyles had access to a laundromat while living outside the castle.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"We're in a situation where everyone knows the risks, and if you're gonna assume those risks, you've gotta do certain things. It's business." -Tony Soprano
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 9:00:32 pm EST from 71.62.198.251

Bob : Yes, that is supposed to be Constantine III.
Spen
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 7:50:25 pm EST from 66.43.205.110

Spoon>Sounds great!!! And I like the idea of being able to see how it evolves as you put it together. Plus we can all help each other with advice, timing, pacing, etc.
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 7:38:34 pm EST from 68.202.76.113

sorry for the double (now triple posts) i thought i stoped it to make a correction.
bob
"no, are ya mad these are your childern...no one threatens my eggs"- Princess Katherine- Avalon part 3
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 7:06:43 pm EST from 66.202.99.29

this off topic,but i just watched avalon part 2 and was wondering if the constintine in it is the same constintine in history? i cant believe i never noticed that b 4.
Also like my new avatar (: i never saw Gabriel in there b 4, he's my favorite!!!!!!
bob
"no, are ya mad these are your childern...no one threatens my eggs"- Princess Katherine- Avalon part 3
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 7:04:14 pm EST from 66.202.99.29

this off topic,but i just watched avalon part 2 and was wondering if the constintine in it is the same constintine in history? i cant believe i never noticed that b 4.
Also like my new avatar (: i never saw Gabreil in there b 4 , he's my favorite!!!!!!
bob
"no, are ya mad these are your childern...no one threatens my eggs"- Princess Katherine- Avalon part 3
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 7:04:04 pm EST from 66.202.99.29

Taleweaver> Nice Beast Wars reference!
The Gargoyles Pulse(Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 4:46:31 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

Transformers Animated: I've caught this show online and yeah it's good hearing the voices again, but I find it disconcerting at parts. The leader, the crusty vetern the trio of younger troublemakers. The character centric episodes (There's even one coming up called 'The Thrill of the Hunt') I know they'd put in immortals if not for the fact that Transformers can exist millions of years (Die cast construction, it's a lost art)

That and the American Gladiator named Wolf has my inner Bluestone thinking some intricately complex Illuminati-esque conspiracy going on. I'm sure it's all in my head, but maybe that's what they want me to think. *grin*
Taleweaver - [rfootman1 at earthlink dot net]
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 4:37:03 pm EST from 71.165.148.56

I'm a big fan of the "King Arthur as Number One" theory myself. I think Greg may be envisaging the Illuminati as sort of a perverted version of the Knights of The Round Table.
Algernon
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up" -C. S. Lewis
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 12:43:48 pm EST from 149.157.1.180

Chip> Yeah, I think that is the reigning theory. Followed by other ideas like Jesus, God, or nobody.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 12:36:23 pm EST from 68.184.215.167

I personally think that Illuminati slot #1 is purposely left vacant by Duval for King Arthur. Recall that the Illuminati was created to sort of restore the glory of Camelot. He knows Arthur could awaken again, and he set things up for him. But Duval has lost sight of the ideals of Camelot, and now that Arthur is indeed awake...he's not going to want what Duval is offering...
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
It's not getting to the land of the dead that's the problem...it's getting back-- Captian Hector Barbossa
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 12:22:47 pm EST from 128.252.173.35

The comment room went live in April of 1995 for the purpose of me being able to hear from the people who were responsible for the hit counter getting bumped from about 10 hits a day to 300 hits a day; a result of the site being linked to from the Gargoyles Fan website which, at the time, was hosted on castle.net. It was nothing more than a simple PERL guestbook script that I went and renamed "comment room" so people would use it to talk to each other and not just to the site's owner.

It wasn't much different, in terms of content, from what we see today. Fans speculating about plots and picking apart all the hidden treasures within each episode. Lots of talk about fanfic too, which was becoming very popular at the time. When new episodes would air people would come to the CR and dissect the show and its implications on the Gargoyles universe. People would get annoyed at the lack of warning about posts containing spoilers and the saturation of the CR with spoiler posts. It became such a problem that a separate comment room just for spoilers was created.

I never bothered to archive the CR because I didn't think it was that important. Later I started archiving it, but never had any plans on what to do with the archive. Finally I put together the application that manages the archive now as part of the upgrade to the CR after people started asking for a CR archive.
Gorebash
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 11:22:11 am EST from 207.206.236.203

True. But even despite the high quality of their clothing, I dunno if it'd last their whole lives (especially for someone like Demona), given their warrior lifestyle (unlike a tapestry, which just hangs there), unless stone sleep had some sort of benefit.

By the way, if all this is true, Demona will probably have to get a new outfit eventually (and keep getting a new one every so often) because she doesn't have stone sleep anymore (unless Puck's magic compensates).

I bet a Gargoyle would be really upset if the loincloth they had worn for a very long time got destroyed during the night somehow. They'd have to get something new, but there's no gaurantee it would turn to stone with them come morning, because they wouldn't feel connected to it; they wouldn't consider it a part of them.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 11:15:24 am EST from 76.165.38.28

Algernon> Very funny.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 11:14:18 am EST from 68.184.215.167

Those loincloths were made to last like the tapestries in the castle. Things back then were made to last unlike nowadays.
The Gargoyles Pulse(Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 11:02:57 am EST from 159.240.11.254

Rebel> Personally, I cannot think of any theory that adequately explains how the Manhattan clan can continue to wear the same loincloths all the time except for the idea that stone sleep removes the dirt from clothing and repairs weaknesses in the fibers.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 11:01:00 am EST from 209.6.248.33

sorry for the double:

Spoonvonstup >> What if everyone e-mailed you their clips, so that you (and only you) could see them? Then, when it's finished (I guess we'd have to set a deadline for when clips are no longer acceptable) you post it somewhere everyone can see. That way everyone (except you) is surprised by the final effect? Maybe this could be a yearly thing?
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 10:32:05 am EST from 76.165.38.28

Stone sleep also provides a cleansing effect, right? I would think it would...since surely the gargoyle wouldn't consider the dirt or whatever to be a part of them (unless they were weird), it would not turn to stone and would therefore be removed from their body when they awaken from stone sleep. So, I bet gargoyles don't have to bathe.

If the above is true, does this also mean that it has a "laundering" effect on the clothing they wear? It seems that it would...since the clothes themselves would turn to stone, but why would the dirt? This is probably why gargoyles can wear the same outfit for their entire adult lives. (Incidentally, a medieval researcher would probably love to get his/her hands on one of the loincloths the manhattan clan wears and have a look at how textiles and such were different back then).

Now this is definitely a big leap--if stone sleep can heal a gargoyle who turns to stone, can it also correct (very) minor wear and tear on their clothing which turns to stone with them? I'm definitely interested in learning what the limitations of the humility spell are.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 10:28:21 am EST from 76.165.38.28

GMV Hell- I am SO totally game for that. I would also be more than happy to put it together for us as well. Gosh darn it, this could be so exciting.

I think we'd have to organize this in someplace other than s8 (for clarity's sake and in the hopes of getting more people). We could set up a little forum or free-thingy web site of cheapness or everyone could just recruit like the dickens and forward everything to me (to which I would reply with "The insanity so far" previews).

Eh? Eh? Eeeeh?
Spoonvonstup - [howbedobe at hotmail dot com]
Gargoyles Music Video Database, GO!
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 10:22:29 am EST from 24.118.180.56

Siren> "#1 is Greg Weisman himself. We'll see him in the comic, sitting at a desk with an evil looking gargoyle beast, ala Dr. Claw from Inspector Gadget."

Oh, that image is too much! Personally, I think Number one is Red Herring!
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 10:14:06 am EST from 75.143.90.105

Gerg B> "One of the most boring characters ever speaking through one of the most interesting. I don't think so."

On a Related note perhaps you'll find this more to your tastes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCUVY1qheTY#
Algernon
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up" -C. S. Lewis
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 8:21:06 am EST from 149.157.1.180

Stone Sleep Healing> We now have some new info straight from Greg on the topic of how stone sleep healing works, which we were discussing a little while back:

"Healing -- depending on the wound -- is exhausting. Remember Angela after she nearly died at the hands of the Hunters. One day as stone heals, but it exhausts the body. Goliath is in fact physically not at 100% in #7."

Interesting. So healing a major wound does come with the price of leaving a gargoyle without much energy the next morning. So a severely injured gargoyle warrior would not necessarily be able to rejoin the fight the very next day. Perhaps one of the reasons that older gargoyles may still die the night after their sleep is that the body's attempt to heal its injuries is just too much of a drain on the individual. Either they cannot expend the energy to completely heal themselves, or the energy it takes to heal themselves leaves them too drained to survive another night.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 7:45:48 am EST from 209.6.248.33

Todd - <That wouldn't be hard to do, since we saw three members of the London clan in the television series, and we've already met two new ones. All that we'll need will be one more new member in the next two issues, and we'll have doubled the original number.> Exactly my point. It's all about manipulation of numbers. That reminds me of something I promised myself I'd do with one post.

*looks around and activates barrier to protect against attacks* Given that there are so few members of the I Society, it's safe bet that no single person occupies two different ranks, right?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 7:31:34 am EST from 98.20.251.54

#1 is Greg Weisman himself. We'll see him in the comic, sitting at a desk with an evil looking gargoyle beast, ala Dr. Claw from Inspector Gadget.
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 7:20:26 am EST from 68.202.76.113

Number One: Hmmmmm. I'd have to say my money's on Richard Simmons. It's usually the person you least suspect.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"We're in a situation where everyone knows the risks, and if you're gonna assume those risks, you've gotta do certain things. It's business." -Tony Soprano
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 7:07:57 am EST from 71.62.198.251

DPH - That wouldn't be hard to do, since we saw three members of the London clan in the television series, and we've already met two new ones. All that we'll need will be one more new member in the next two issues, and we'll have doubled the original number.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 7:05:08 am EST from 4.244.214.204

You're all wrong. William T. Riker is Number One. :P

164 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 7:03:20 am EST from 76.205.72.111

Meg - Take "clan building" pretty loosely. Technically speaking, Greg is 'building' the London clan by expanding on its size a bunch, in fact, I'm willing to bet by the end of episode 9, the number of known members of the London clan will have doubled since "MIA".
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 5:09:15 am EST from 98.20.251.54

One thing I've been wondering is how the Stone of Destiny plot is going to contribute to the Clan-Building theme. Does anyone else think it's a possibility that some of the London Clan gargoyles (namely the stag and/or the sow glimpsed on the last page of #7) might decide to leave London and join the Manhattan Clan? Based on #7, I can't imagine any other way the plot we've seen up to now could relate to Clan-Building. (The only possible other explanation I came up with is Coldstone/Coldfire rejoining the clan, but that seems unlikely at this point; they won't stay until Coldsteel is taken care of. I doubt that, this early in the series, Coldsteel will be neutralized, and based on his desire to get Xanatos' tracking chip out of him, I also doubt he'll stay in the NY area.) Personally, I think the stag is a prime candidate; I suspect he might be Una and Leo's son (given the distinctive appearance of the London gargoyles, that also makes me wonder tangentially about if their traditional views on parenting have changed any), and if he is their first egg he is the same age biologically as the Trio. (Perhaps he might even be Lex's eventual mate.)
Meg
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 3:46:35 am EST from 72.70.238.239

Al Pacino >>>>>>>>> The rest of the multiverse!

Come on, Michael once sent Mickey Goofy's vest wrapped around a fish to let Mickey know that Goofy sleeps with the fishes, then he gave his wife Kay a rabbit skinned scarf made from Bugs Bunny.

And let us not forget about the time he stole Jack Bauer's wrist watch, making him a day late. Michael Corleone IS Number One.
Greg Bishansky
"Fredo, you're nothing to me now. You're not a brother, you're not a friend. I don't want to know you or what you do. I don't want to see you at the hotels, I don't want you near my house. When you see our mother, I want to know a day in advance, so I won't be there. You understand?" -Michael Corleone
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 12:40:26 am EST from 75.56.245.4

I think it will be nice when we find out who #1 is. More than likely, it's going to be someone we haven't met yet, but I gotta admit, I'd REALLY like it if it was someone we already knew, but never suspected. It would certainly have to be someone who has been around for a very long time (and has more than likely gone through several aliases).

Just out of curiosity, are Oberon's Children allowed in the Illuminati?


GMV Hell >> Well if you guys are up for it, I can probably come up with a few clips to contribute (not sure exactly when I'd be able to make them though). Turns out I do have Windows Moviemaker on my computer. If we do a good job, maybe it could be shown at the Gathering (not as an entry in the contest, but just for the heck of it). I guess someone would have to be in charge of collecting all the clips and putting them all together.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 12:32:07 am EST from 24.227.200.138

Actually, Number One is probably Mickey Mouse.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 12:31:37 am EST from 68.184.215.167

Michael Corleone is Number One. He is the Don after all, the Godfather. All others are but pale imitations. Duval and Quincy Hemings both kiss his ring and thank Michael for letting them. ;)
Greg Bishansky
"Fredo, you're nothing to me now. You're not a brother, you're not a friend. I don't want to know you or what you do. I don't want to see you at the hotels, I don't want you near my house. When you see our mother, I want to know a day in advance, so I won't be there. You understand?" -Michael Corleone
posted @ Tue, Jan 15, 2008 12:27:23 am EST from 75.56.245.4

I got it. Keyser Soze is #1.
The Gargoyles Pulse (Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 11:26:27 pm EST from 70.15.84.29

Siren> Hey, I'm game too.
Greg Bishansky
"Fredo, you're nothing to me now. You're not a brother, you're not a friend. I don't want to know you or what you do. I don't want to see you at the hotels, I don't want you near my house. When you see our mother, I want to know a day in advance, so I won't be there. You understand?" -Michael Corleone
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 11:23:24 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

No, Dave (owner of Dave's Ball & Stick) is Number One!
Greg Bishansky
"Fredo, you're nothing to me now. You're not a brother, you're not a friend. I don't want to know you or what you do. I don't want to see you at the hotels, I don't want you near my house. When you see our mother, I want to know a day in advance, so I won't be there. You understand?" -Michael Corleone
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 11:22:34 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

It would be cool if a bunch of us work together for a GMV Hell! I'm game :D
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 11:21:38 pm EST from 68.202.76.113

Can't wait to see those videos when you guys make them.

So... who else thinks Lexington is Illuminati #1. All makes sense when you think about it.

Just kidding, mostly.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 11:16:54 pm EST from 68.184.215.167

Okkoto's line later in the film about his warriors coming back from the Land of the Dead might go well with clips from "Shadows of the Past"...or (and I doubt the lip movements would synch up, and I can't check because I don't have the DVD nearby) that moment in awakening 3 when he realizes they've all awakened.

There's a lot of fun stuff that could be done by using gargoyles voice actors' other work.


Anyway, have you guys ever seen those "AMV Hell" videos, where there's no real plot but they just set random anime clips to various songs and audio...well, maybe we could make some "GMV Hell" videos.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 10:33:26 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

You could get really exuberant and inter-cut Goliath and Okkoto's dialog to make something completely new and out of context like, "And please, don't fall off the building again, or I will eat you."
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 10:24:54 pm EST from 68.202.76.113

I just thought about how fun it would be to have Goliath saying "Stand back! I will not *eat* him".
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 10:17:06 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Using Okkoto's (boar god in Mononoke) voice for Goliath could be done seamlessly, given the right Gargoyles clips.

Okkoto clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yau9JZfCPw
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 10:04:25 pm EST from 68.202.76.113

Vashkoda> That was an interesting read. Looks like it was written in 2003 or so given the mention of "seven years since" and the coming DVDs. I truly feel we have entered the second Golden Age for Gargoyles, but it is interesting to look back on our darker days. I'd say the worst was 2000-2003 or so. Anyway, I'm happy we are where we are.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 9:57:03 pm EST from 68.184.215.167

Or Goliath doing car commercials.

(am I the only one who saw those Z4 roadster commercials a year or three or so ago?)
Spoonvonstup - [howbedobe at hotmail dot com]
Gargoyle Music Video Database, GO!
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 9:27:45 pm EST from 24.118.180.56

*peeks sheepishly back in* Hey all... It was suggested to me I try linking in here again, despite previous posts mysteriously disappearing... If there's a problem with this someone TELL me please? I can either stop again or do it differently or whatever. I can't be all that hard to get a hold of. ^_^

MGC voting runs only through the 25th, so if you would like to head over and check out the December topic "Egyptian Gargoyles" and cast a vote for your favorites, that would be great! :)
Of course if you see this after the 15th, go see the gorgeous artwork and see who won. Or submit your own!

OK, back to lurking for me. ^_^
kess - [< Monthly Gargoyles Art Contest]
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 9:26:03 pm EST from 66.227.169.218

I've never really payed much attention to Star Trek, so I have no idea what kind of character she played on that show.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 8:45:07 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

"-Star Trek audio (with Marina Sirtis speaking) to Demona clips"

One of the most boring characters ever speaking through one of the most interesting. I don't think so.

Now, doing that to Keith David would be fun.
Greg Bishansky
"Fredo, you're nothing to me now. You're not a brother, you're not a friend. I don't want to know you or what you do. I don't want to see you at the hotels, I don't want you near my house. When you see our mother, I want to know a day in advance, so I won't be there. You understand?" -Michael Corleone
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 8:38:00 pm EST from 75.56.245.4

Spoonvonstup >> Oh, I'd love to, but I'm afraid I don't have the software or the time to do something like that. But, if anyone else wants to use that idea, they're more than welcome to.

Other ideas that would be fun:
-Star Trek audio (with Marina Sirtis speaking) to Demona clips
-Spongebob audio (Patrick) to Broadway clips
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 8:33:58 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

The music video contest info is up?!

Sweet! :D

I better get started on ripping my DVDs...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)> The DVDs are awesome!
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 8:27:36 pm EST from 72.199.225.9

@Rebel- "does anyone know offhand of any gargoyles video makers who have taken clips from gargoyles, and set them to audio from the gargoyles voice actors' other work? For example, I once thought it would be fun to get some clips of Goliath (with his lips moving) and set it to some of Keith David's music."

I haven't come across anything like that in my grand YT/internet searches for Gargoyles videos, but I think that could be quite a hilarious/productive/lovely undertaking (depending on what audio you choose). I say, go for it, and them show it off to all of us.
Spoonvonstup - [howbedobe at hotmail dot com]
Indeed
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 8:22:33 pm EST from 24.118.180.56

Transformers Animated is brilliant and Tom Kenny(SpongeBob) does brilliant voicing Starscream.
Vicky82
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 7:44:56 pm EST from 195.93.21.4

Voice actors> Avalon Mists used to have a really nice feature listing the projects all the old VA's were working on. I miss that place. ;; It's changed hands so often I have no clue who's running it now.

Age of the CR> This place has been around a long time. It's too bad the archive only goes back to 2002. I was trying to use the wayback machine to get a glimpse of old posts, but I can't remember the url extensions used when this place was on castle.net or rat.org.

Just cuz I was feeling nostalgic, I looked up an old rant I wrote on GNC about the state of the fandom at the time. I can't remember what year it was, but it was before the comic, and some if the stuff I said then is no longer true. But it's interesting to compare how things were and are now. Anyways, it's linked to my name.
Vashkoda - [<my name goes here> at gmail dot com]
D2 <Can I have it?> <Reward> 500 gil!
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 7:41:06 pm EST from 71.106.238.12

LOL. No problem. I figured it was common knowledge, but I figured I'd throw it out there anyway.

By the way, does anyone know offhand of any gargoyles video makers who have taken clips from gargoyles, and set them to audio from the gargoyles voice actors' other work? For example, I once thought it would be fun to get some clips of Goliath (with his lips moving) and set it to some of Keith David's music.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 7:39:05 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Sorry. Just kidding around.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
Dean: "But that might have been someone's spirit, pop." Thadeus: "All the more reason to get it the hell off me." ("Venture Brothers")
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 7:19:12 pm EST from 71.62.198.251

Rebel: <Also, I assume everyone is well aware that the voice for Patrick in "Spongebob Squarepants" is Broadway's voice actor.>

You're certain of this? I suppose next you're gonna tell us Clancy Brown is Mr. Krabs. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
Dean: "But that might have been someone's spirit, pop." Thadeus: "All the more reason to get it the hell off me." ("Venture Brothers")
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 7:18:33 pm EST from 71.62.198.251

@Rebel "Princess Mononoke"- He also serves as the "narrator" in the introduction of the movie. And yes, I whooped out loud the minute he started speaking.

Why is the Gathering Forum always so dead? I would think that the Gargoyles fandom might take well to a forum style gathering place on the internet, and for many fans, the Gathering is one of the first places they find (but when they post they get no love).

PS- I know this is a week late, but I see rules up on the Gathering's main site for the music video contest. Thanks for that, Patrick!

*gets to finishing exciting new videos* I can't wait to see what everyone else will make this year! Hopefully, more people will be more interested in watching the good work that the fandom editors have been turning out.
Spoonvonstup - [howbedobe at hotmail dot com]
This sentance doesn't know what's going on.
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 6:28:00 pm EST from 24.118.180.56

Dunno if any of you guys watched the English version of Princess Mononoke, but Keith David plays the head boar god. Naturally, he does an awesome job, though he doesn't have many lines. Gillian Anderson play Moro, the wolf god, and whenever I watch it now I can't help but think that Marina Sirtis would have been so much better.

Also, I assume everyone is well aware that the voice for Patrick in "Spongebob Squarepants" is Broadway's voice actor.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 5:40:20 pm EST from 24.227.200.138

Matt - <Bad Guys #2 could still POSSIBLY come out this month, right?> Two things: 1st point - Robby said that he was going to work on bg issue #2, implying that when Robby made those comments issue #2 wasn't finished. 2nd point - It takes Disney roughly a month to approve a new comic. Putting those pieces of information together yields a result of my strong belief that bg issue #2 won't come out until after February 13.

I wonder why Diamond Comics stopped listing that link.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 5:25:36 pm EST from 98.20.251.54

Demonskrye> It was great hearing "Owen" in Transformers. "Broadway" wasn't openly recognizable at first, at least to my ears, but it was similar enough to make me wonder to check the end credits and sure enough, it was him. I've watched one episode so far, and it's an ok show. I need to watch more of it to give it a fair review. It's definitely geared to a younger audience.
The Gargoyles Pulse(Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 4:50:56 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

In the category of "Gargoyles Voice Actors in Other Things", I've got a couple of recent reports.

Toy company 21st Century Toys, which specializes in military figures, has the license for the movie "Platoon" and has produced a first wave of four figures. No Keith David yet, but if these sell well enough, he's probably a shoo-in for wave 2. The figures sell for around five bucks and stand 3.75" - 4" tall - the same scale as the 1980s G.I. Joes for those who are old enough to remember or those who are checking out the newer figures in that style in the aisles today. So if Mr. David does get a figure, he''ll definitely look odd next to your Kenner "Gargoyles" figures. But still, it could be an amusing addition to your collection.

On the TV front, I've been watching the new TransFormers Animated series on Cartoon Network. It's fun, and certainly many times better than the triple train wreck of Armada, Energon, and Cybertron. But additionally, if you're missing hearing "those certain voices", there are reasons to watch. Bill Fagerbakke voices Bulkhead, the Autobot's main muscle, while Jeff Bennett gives meditative perfectionist Prowl his slightly less stiff Owen Burnett voice. Cree Summer does Blackarachnia, who hasn't been seen since the first episode of the three part pilot, but will likely make another appearance. Given that numerous other robots are slated to show up over the course of the show, I wouldn't be surprised if more "Gargoyles" alums lend their talents.

And finally, to the world of video games. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before, but gi-normous XBox 360 RPG "Mass Effect" is pretty littered with "Gargoyles" voice actors. Keith David plays your superior officer. Marina Sirtis is the main bad guy's chief underling. Cam Clarke (Young Gillecomgain) reads you news broadcasts as you travel around the major spaceport. I ran into Cree Summer as a colonist stuck in a war zone, and she may have additional roles later on. I don't know that I've heard Kath Soucie yet, but she listed for additional voices in the IMDB credits. And in addition to having a good number of "Gargoyles" cast members, the game is awesome. It's from the same people who did Star Wars RPG "Knights of the Old Republic" so if you have a 360 and that kind of thing is up your alley, check it out.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 4:14:57 pm EST from 209.6.248.33

POSSIBLY!
The Gargoyles Pulse(Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 4:13:52 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

Bad Guys #2 could still POSSIBLY come out this month, right? Like Jan. 30th?
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 3:56:05 pm EST from 68.184.215.167

Speaking of confirmation, or lack their of, depending on your point of view, it appears that Diamond Comics no longer posts a list of what comics are expected for the week following the current one. But thankfully, I discovered they still upload the expected list to their site, even though they don't link to it. The TPB was on the 16th expected list and has been moved to the 23rd expected list. This information coincides with SLG's website, so I'm pretty confident that we'll be getting the TPB next week. I wish we'd hear some additional news on Bad Guys #2. I'm definitely hoping for just a month late release date and we get it in February. I just hope the Captain doesn't come here and say, "It is worse than that, your Highness."
The Gargoyles Pulse(Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 3:38:13 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

Jurgen: Thanks for clarifying that, sounds just as reasonable as my theory (especially as I also think there isn't anyone in the #1 slot). Still, wanted to get that out there in case it could be confirmed one way or another.
Echowarrior - [WARendfeld at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 3:28:05 pm EST from 161.32.228.101

Echo: Greg has said that, while there are 666 slots in the Illuminati, they aren't required to be filled at all times. So they may sometimes admit new members without an old one needing to be eliminated. I'm fairly confident that #1 is open, for instance. So while they can't have more than 666 members, they can have fewer.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 1:30:47 pm EST from 68.59.10.242

Thinking over a few odd things with the recent comics and the revelations concerning the Illuminati's organizational structure, I can't help but wonder about something. Assuming that there are indeed 666 members of the organization at any given time, how do they appoint new members, and what is necessary for a member to ascend in the hierarchy?

My guess is that a new member is brought in each time an old one is somehow rendered useless, based on Bluestone's induction to the organization following Mace Malone being trapped in the Hotel Cabal. That may also explain how certain members can climb the hierarchy; someone from a lower level took over Malone's spot, and others were bumped up to fill the gap accordingly.

Only a theory, but it happens to fit the facts. Thoughts?
Echowarrior - [WARendfeld at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 1:14:41 pm EST from 161.32.228.101

Bad Guys> Well, the helicopter blowing up scene happened on Jan. 5th, 1997 and Hunter recruiting Dingo and Matrix happened two months before, So I'd say the group was entirely formed during November 1996.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 11:46:16 am EST from 68.184.215.167

I remember our earlier discussion on Greg's choice of dates for Fox moving into the Eyrie Building and Xanatos becoming one of the Illuminati. Those are the same dates that "Eye of the Beholder" and "Vows" first aired on television. That certainly explains a lot.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 6:59:29 am EST from 4.244.209.141

dph> "Of course, the real question is what did this cr discuss when gargoyles was on the air and there were waiting for new episodes?"

Wow. Is the CR that old?

It's quite possible (and highly probable) back then that this place was discussing the then current episodes themselves.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 6:06:45 am EST from 76.247.60.189

dph >> I noticed Greg Weisman's comment earlier today and started a spreadsheet. I'm not done with it yet, but I'm sure it'll be interesting...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)> The DVDs are awesome!
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 2:36:27 am EST from 72.199.225.9

Anthony - Everything but the kitchen sink. Of course, the real question is what did this cr discuss when gargoyles was on the air and there were waiting for new episodes? That's the situation that this cr is in.

Did anybody notice Greb Weisman's comment about matching original air dates with dates in the stories? About 3-4 actually occurred on the original air date.

Besides that, there's a few things that I'm holding back on wondering about for the timeline. Right now, Greg Weisman hasn't revealed any dates for when the various members of the Bad Guys were recruited, except to say when the current plot is taking place.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 1:19:13 am EST from 98.20.251.54

Yes, it was. What shall we begin talking about this week? Everything is kind of quiet on the comic book front. I'm looking forward to the the TPB next Wednesday definitely. What did you guys discuss when there wasn't new canon material to talk about?
The Gargoyles Pulse (Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 1:03:10 am EST from 70.15.84.29

Wow, that was fast.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:42:02 am EST from 98.20.251.54

10th!
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:31:44 am EST from 68.119.84.107

Hey! My Friend Matt, and I, just bought Stock in Disney. Granted we only have one share each, but... we'll see what we can do about Gargoyles!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:22:21 am EST from 161.184.65.92

9th!!! Woot!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:21:25 am EST from 161.184.65.92

make that 8th
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
H2O Goliath will woop your ass
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:19:56 am EST from 69.231.245.4

7th. Damn, haven't done this in a while
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
H2O Goliath will woop your ass
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:19:36 am EST from 69.231.245.4

7th!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)> The DVDs are awesome!
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:19:22 am EST from 72.199.225.9

6TH!!!!
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!" -Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:12:26 am EST from 68.184.215.167

5th!
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:08:05 am EST from 24.227.200.138

Fourth! Quick tonight.
Spen
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:04:20 am EST from 66.43.205.110

Third!
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:02:42 am EST from 68.58.182.37

2nd!
The Gargoyles Pulse (Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:01:00 am EST from 70.15.84.29

1st!
The Gargoyles Pulse (Anthony Tini)
...updated Mondays afternoon/early evening
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:00:43 am EST from 70.15.84.29

ooh first!
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Mon, Jan 14, 2008 12:00:39 am EST from 64.148.26.148