Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

As far as running Nightstone is concerned, I agree that Thailog cares more about that. He said he'd find a way to make the money he stole work for him, so incorporating it probably WAS his idea. He found a way to make it work through Demona, because she provided a link to the outside world that he didn't have. Even though Demona turns to a human during the day, she still considers herself a gargoyle. She does acknowledge that her human form is of some use in helping her to achieve her goals, and I think that that would be her only interest in Nightstone, if she still has any.

My guess is she'll probably consider the risks to outweigh the benefits. She probably deduced that the Hunters know about her dual personality, because they knew where to find her on the night of the Hunter's Moon. I doubt she knows who John Castaway is. She's probably seen his commercials, but I don't know if she ever saw Jon Canmore with his mask off. But she does know that someone knows Dominique's real identity (someone who, unlike Elisa, isn't bound by legal issues such as probable cause). So I imagine she probably doesn't want to do anything as public as manage a company.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Table manners are for people with nothing better to do." -David Byrne
posted @ Sun, Dec 7, 2008 2:47:28 pm EST from 76.27.174.85

Landon> Thanks for the suggestions. Also thanks for uploading them on your site. I've tried to modify the files so that they're more clearer. I can't seem to email you for some reason, so I've uploaded the files back on the free image host again. If you don't mind, could you replace the old files with these new ones.

http://e.imagehost.org/view/0457/40secs

http://e.imagehost.org/view/0042/thailog_shari

http://e.imagehost.org/view/0361/purge_copy

Thanks!

Lonerider26> Thanks for the comments. I like the Thailog/Shari one best as well, especially after the recent modification. Looks a lot more clearer imo.

Greg Bishansky> I've always assumed that Demona would always go back to heading Nightstone Unlimited, and that's one of the reasons why I was so shocked when I saw Thailog return there at the end of #5. It may be fanfiction influencing my thinking (and I don't really read that much fanfiction) but I can't see Demona giving up her corporate identity to Thailog that easily. Running a corporation would give her a lot of power, which is something she obviously craves.

She may have been sticking around after "The Reckoning" just to see Sevarius finish his carrier virus, but we saw her doing other Nightstone business, such as interviewing Robyn for her own Personal Assistant. I'm sure she could have even payrolled Sevarius as well as the hired goons in "Hunter's Moon Part 1" to do her bidding with even having to don the role of Dominique Destine. She managed it quite fine in "The Mirror".

One thing though I've just realised - if Demona was planning to destroy the human race as was her intention with "Operation Clean Slate", why would she even need to employ Robyn? If Demona's scheme went according to plan, Robyn would have died within a few nights; why go through the whole employment/interviewing process? Seems a bit strange.
Brigadoon Traveller - [brigadoontraveller at hotmail dot co dot uk]
posted @ Sun, Dec 7, 2008 2:26:20 pm EST from 78.144.209.79

So, something I've been thinking about.

Does anyone actually expect Demona to return to running Nightstone Unlimited? I've been thinking about this, and well, over a decade of fanfiction aside, is running a large corporation really Demona's style? Would she even know what she's doing at all?

I always figured that Nightstone Unlimited was Thailog's idea, mostly, and he pushed it. I always figure that he made pretty much all of the business decisions anyway. Hell, she spent three months locked in the Labyrinth, with Thailog running things his way.

No, I think after "The Reckoning" she stuck around just long enough for Sevarius to finish the CV-1000 Carrier Virus.

After that? Does she even know what she's doing? Does she know how to run a company? Does she have the patience to run a company? Does she have the interest? I would think the answer is know. Thailog, being a product of David Xanatos, on the other hand, probably had that knowledge programmed into him. Not to mention the drive and ambition and interest to do it.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Sun, Dec 7, 2008 1:03:36 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

This is mostly speculation, but we do know Margot is someone who likes to be in control. As we found out in #4, she's someone who kept her maiden name. She also works for the DA. My guess is she wanted either a stay-at-home husband, or someone with less ambition than her. It wouldn't surprise me if her father ran a law firm or something, and Brendan was just a clerk in the filing department. In which case, he saw marrying Margot as a chance to possibly get ahead.

In any case, they do inject a note of realism into a show filled with shapeshifting fairies and statues that come to life. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Table manners are for people with nothing better to do." -David Byrne
posted @ Sun, Dec 7, 2008 12:21:55 pm EST from 76.27.174.85

Maybe Brendan has an Oedipus complex and Margot acts the exact same way his mom does.

Yet another string of ancient mythology Weisman sutbly sneeks in, eh?
Monkey - [johnr783 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Dec 7, 2008 7:34:03 am EST from 69.155.116.210

Greg B. : Doubtful. She doesn't seem like the 'giving' sort to me.
Spen
"Ad-lib excitement."
posted @ Sun, Dec 7, 2008 3:47:33 am EST from 66.43.205.110

Greg B.> ROFL. Maybe she wasn't such a b- and just got worse over time. Or maybe it was a status thing, only she bullied him into it. It looked like he might be going somewhere, then didn't. We could have so much fun discussing how our favorite yuppie couple got together.
Asatira
posted @ Sun, Dec 7, 2008 1:37:11 am EST from 68.190.20.172

Robby> Money? She's good at fellatio?
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Sun, Dec 7, 2008 12:14:48 am EST from 24.205.39.101

Why the hell did Brendan even marry Margot? She's been nothing but abusive to him ever since we even first saw him.
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Sat, Dec 6, 2008 11:44:24 pm EST from 68.186.243.160

Comic art> Karine was my favourite at first, but as time's gone on I've begin to think that it *is* a little too screencap-like. That has its own appeal, but part of me wants a style that both evokes the cartoon art and also possesses its own sense. The other artists were getting there, but they have their own problems

Timedancer> I know that I want to see more about Brooklyn's family because I'm always eager to see new gargoyle designs, and wonder about how what Greg described as a "Sam/Diane" dynamic would play out in a Gargoyles comic.

BUT it would make perfect sense to me, and feels the most likely, that the three Timedancer issues we're getting (for now) would concentrate more on filling in important gaps in Gargoyles' backstory. After all, it's the bigger picture.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Sat, Dec 6, 2008 9:21:43 pm EST from 216.36.154.204

Brook - "I seriously was annoyed by how Margot looked."

Really? I think that's how most people react to Margot :P Brendan especially . . . .

Covers: I've always liked #4: Masque's cover . . . it doesn't spoil and it has an eerie feeling about it. :)
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Dec 6, 2008 6:55:24 pm EST from 157.242.223.159

Brook: "I just loved the perfect, almost (as I said earlier) DVD-Episode-screenshot-quality drawings in 5."

I hate to disagree since Karine hangs around here, but I dislike that 'animation cel' style of art. As much as I love animation, comic books are a different art form. They should do what they do best and not try to copy animation. I much prefer Karine's work on Bad Guys--that art feels more fleshed out and living in its own world.

My favorite art is #8, i.e. David Hedgecock at his most refined. I think his art remains true to the Disney models while best exploiting the style and story-telling techniques of comic books. Greg Guler is great at this as well and #1 is my favorite cover.

Brigadoon Traveller: I like the banners, though some of the writing blends into the background and is kind of hard to read. For the first two, I'd perhaps make the font backgrounds/banners more opaque and pick more contrasting font colors so it's easier to read. And for the last two, maybe add some translucent banners behind the font and/or reposition and shrink the font. But other than that, I like the design and you picked great screenshots. Here they are rehosted: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~thom1576/gargoyles/ Email me if you want different files in there.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Sat, Dec 6, 2008 6:17:51 pm EST from 216.250.163.157

Dude, I like all of 'em. The 1st stands out to me, but, I love Thailog and Shari, so...
Great work!
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told-though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Sat, Dec 6, 2008 5:26:42 pm EST from 71.239.117.121

*Brigadoon is sad that he missed the opportunity to see #11 cover. :( *

I have to agree with some of the comments on the art for #6; on the whole I did enjoy the art, there were some moments which made me think it had been hurried.

However I did enjoy Paniry's art in #4; it was different, but there were some brilliant touches - such as the panel with the 4 double daters all alone, and the panel juxtaposing Goliath & Thailog's faces. Really nice touches.

Speaking of Art - which cover did you guys like the most so far? My personal favourite has to be #4. I love the different masks on #4 and the colouring is fantastic. Funny thing - for some reason it was ages before I noticed the Thailog mask had his face shield on. I don't why it took me so long to see it; it was literally months before I noticed it. Strange.

Anyway, to help advertise the upcoming TPBs, I made these banners that people could put in their signatures on forums or on their websites etc. They're very simple, nothing too fancy, if people want to use them their more than welcome; I tried to contact the admin at gargoylescomic.com to see if they could put upload them on that website, but I've had no response. Maybe if someone here who has access to that website could upload them on there (or any other website that everyone else can access).

I don't have my own website, so for now I have put the banners on a free image hosting site. I don't know how long they'll be on there, so if anyone with a more permanent solution could contact me, I'd be much appreciated.

You can see the banners at the websites below (and right click to save)

http://e.imagehost.org/view/0425/conflicts_small_copy2

http://e.imagehost.org/view/0281/purge_humanity_small

http://e.imagehost.org/view/0719/the_gate_small

http://e.imagehost.org/view/0471/timedancer_small
Brigadoon Traveller - [brigadoontraveller at hotmail dot co dot uk]
posted @ Sat, Dec 6, 2008 4:53:16 pm EST from 89.240.148.236

Yeah, it felt a bit hurried to me... like, almost unfinished...

Not critizising anything, I'm happy bout the comics, but I just loved the perfect, almost (as I said earlier) DVD-Episode-screenshot-quality drawings in 5.

Why do they all look like huge Muscleballs in 4 anyways BTW? XD I seriously was annoyed by how Margot looked.

But yeah, all of them have their good moments. I love Derecks impression after Maggy got hurt.
Brook
posted @ Sat, Dec 6, 2008 3:56:44 pm EST from 84.191.240.178

Brook: #6 was just... It he made Shari look like a raccoon...
BUT, he DID do a really nice job on Bronx, Angela, and Elisa, as well as some shots of Goliath and Coldstone. And, besides the whole 'raccoon' look he gave Shari, she didn't look to bad either. She looked more like Karine's version of Shari than others I've seen. Thailog, Brooklyn, Lex, and Broadway were kinda 'eh' though...
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told-though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Sat, Dec 6, 2008 3:20:43 pm EST from 71.239.117.121

@ Lonerider: Yeah, I agree. #4 and #6 was not so much my taste (6 felt hurried and 4... well... I guess people already pointed it out, so...), but Karine really really did it.

Even the colloring is fantastic here. Usually, we've got pretty light and pretty dark collors, so there's this huge contrast - here it looks so natural and detailed.
Brook
posted @ Sat, Dec 6, 2008 7:54:53 am EST from 84.191.216.227

I was responding to a Gargoyles Thread on GameFAQs concerning The Avalon World Tour.

Now without going back into the debate on whether it was vital to the series, I have a question to ask about the feeling of the length.

The big reason as to why it took a while to finish was due to a break on the new episodes rather than airing them from beginning to end.

That said, would you say that seeing the entire AWT from beginning to end without breaks improved the pacing or did it feel just as long as it did when they air it the first time?

I'd say it still felt long, but certainly didn't feel like it took forever for Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx to get home.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sat, Dec 6, 2008 6:31:24 am EST from 96.239.199.233

Anonymous: #5 was done by Karine Charlebois. Her and Greg G. have to be the best when it comes to the comics. Hands down. Though I don't mind the others...
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told-though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Fri, Dec 5, 2008 11:55:41 pm EST from 71.239.117.121

Demona + apology + wielding a mace ready to kill someone = EPIC WIN!!

Nothing says "sorry" like bashing someone with a mace... XD

Off to class I go...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)> 3D Modeling class tonight... Fun...
posted @ Fri, Dec 5, 2008 8:42:31 pm EST from 67.101.237.11

Sorry for the doublepost, but I looked at bluewyvern's post again, and it reminded me of the thought that I'd had here before (and even included in my upcoming "Gargoyles" article). One aspect of the gargoyles' medieval origins that I think worked well was how it allowed them to say things that, in another context, might sound preachy, but fitted their circumstances perfectly. For example, Hudson's remark at the start of "Deadly Force" about how, thanks to such modern-day inventions as movies and television, it was harder to tell what was real from what was not. While that obviously ties into the central point of the episode (Broadway playing around with Elisa's gun, with near-fatal consequences, because he'd gotten excited by a movie western), it didn't sound like a "moral of the day". It sounded like a medieval person suddenly transplanted to the modern world, and trying to make sense of it. That's how it felt to me, the very first time I saw that scene.
Todd Jensen
gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Fri, Dec 5, 2008 7:28:43 pm EST from 4.244.210.53

I've got to admit that "Demona" and "apology" don't seem to go together (Bishansky made the same remark in the comments section of the page). Though it's great to get another gargoyles sketch, all the same. Thanks!

Greg Weisman's remark about Jean Valjean was several years ago; I think that it was in one of his rambles in the comment room, rather than "Ask Greg". That's all I can remember about it.
Todd Jensen
gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Fri, Dec 5, 2008 7:16:44 pm EST from 4.244.210.53

*sigh* the cokkia were gone again, oh well...

ANYWAYS, visit andykaufmanlives.com
Brook
posted @ Fri, Dec 5, 2008 6:07:56 pm EST from 84.191.189.239

@ Landon: That one is great. :)

@ Comics: Has anybody else already expressioned that #5 has the best art?? I feel like watching a real EP, or rather Screencaps of an EP with added text.
I hope that when the Comic comes back, Karine will draw many more Episodes. :)

@ BTW: http://www.andykaufmanlives.com - not this is getting scarier with every visit. The last 8 or so years, the page was a simple Q&A, however, it is updated twice a week now and getting more and more disturbing/detailed.
Anonymous
posted @ Fri, Dec 5, 2008 6:07:12 pm EST from 84.191.189.239

That Demona sketch is awesome, it has me really looking forward to the trade, even more so than I already was!
Ricky
posted @ Fri, Dec 5, 2008 6:03:56 pm EST from 151.205.188.171

Hutchison apologizes to the fans in the best way possible--a Demona sketch!
http://dhutchison.deviantart.com/art/Demona-an-apology-105495986

It's dated 12/5 so I'm amazed he was able to whip it up so quick.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Fri, Dec 5, 2008 2:19:00 pm EST from 128.101.32.234

And Morgan dressed up as Holmes for Halloween (can't believe I forgot that until now).

If he did exist in the Gargoyles universe, Holmes knew about the London Clan. Guaranteed. How could he not?

Todd> When did Greg say that about Jean Valjean? That's really cool. I never read the book, but the staging of the musical when I saw it was one of the best musicals I ever saw.
Supermorff
posted @ Fri, Dec 5, 2008 1:46:50 pm EST from 81.155.47.133

David Hutchinson took down the #11 cover, probably on the request of SLG. I don't know why. Ten months is a long time between releases and that was exactly the kind of thing that would keep up interest.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Fri, Dec 5, 2008 10:29:16 am EST from 128.101.32.234

Holmes> I always thought that the London Clan should have a gargoyle beast named Baskerville. Of course, we know now that they don't currently have any beasts, but it seems likely that they did have at least one in the past, possibly as recently as 1940.

I know it's not canon, but in "Lines of Allegiance" - my favorite of the Disney Adventures comics - Owen presents Broadway with a book of Sherlock Holmes stories to thank him for his help in freeing Xanatos from Demona's spell. If the great detective does end up making an appearance in "Gargoyles," I do hope that Broadway is somehow involved in the story.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Dec 5, 2008 9:37:13 am EST from 146.115.115.33

Todd : Wow. I *remember* that story. (Which is saying something, considering that I think I last read it in 1980...)
Spen
"Ad-lib excitement."
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 10:13:14 pm EST from 66.43.205.110

Sorry for the double-post, but the mention of Sherlock Holmes here reminded me of an old creativity demon of mine.

One of the early Sherlock Holmes stories, "The Five Orange Pips", had the Ku Klux Klan as the antagonists. An Englishman named Elias Openshaw emigrates to the southern United States where he first fights for the Confederacy during the U.S. Civil War, and after the war, joins the Ku Klux Klan. He falls out with them, steals many of their papers, and flees back to England; there some of the KKK members hunt him down and kill him (and later on also murder his brother, and after that his nephew, in the continuing hunt for the stolen papers - which Elias Openshaw had destroyed).

I had the creativity demon of an English counterpart or division of the Quarrymen, targeting the London clan, one of whose members would be named "Openshaw" as a reference to the Sherlock Holmes story (if he was anything like his Holmesian counterpart, he'd probably wind up betraying it, though out of personal gain rather than an attack of conscience like that of Vinnie in "The Journey").
Todd Jensen
gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 7:23:48 pm EST from 4.244.210.193

Greg brings up Sherlock Holmes' mention in "The Hound of Ulster" just as I've been rediscovering the Great Detective (partly thanks to the local PBS station re-airing the Granada Sherlock Holmes adaptations starring the late Jeremy Brett in the title role).

Since one of the unwritten rules of "Gargoyles" is that if you mention a famous legendary or fictional character, he eventually shows up, it's not impossible that Holmes might somehow get involved in the Gargoyles Universe. I used to assume that characters from 19th century fiction wouldn't be literally real in the Gargoyles Universe - but then Greg mentioned seeing Jean Valjean from "Les Miserables" existing in the Gargoyles Universe, so I'm no longer certain of that. Since "Gargoyles" has used detective stories from time to time (though more Sam Spade than Sherlock Holmes in tone - witness "The Silver Falcon"), it's possible that Holmesian mythology might get in that way.
Todd Jensen
gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 7:10:11 pm EST from 4.244.210.193

Rebel -- Perhaps. I'm not the best guy to talk physics and biology with, but I always made my own conclusion that if Gargoyles had to indeed FLY, their wings would probably have to be bigger and stronger and all that, but since its a fact story-wise that they can only glide, the size seems just right.

Mind you, the wings, such as Goliath's, appear to be plenty big already . . . I'm currently thinking when he's in his moment of rage in "Awakening, Part II" and the fact that G's big, and those wings, when folded, cover him up really well. To me, size doesn't seem to be an issue, perhaps just body strength and endurance, which I am guessing he needs plenty of to keep in the air.

Cover: Beautiful -- Can't wait to see the TPB as well :D
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 4:41:22 pm EST from 157.242.222.233

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20081204/sc_livescience/ancientflyingreptilebiggerthanacar

This article got me wondering--do you think that the wingspan of the gargoyles are of a believable size? Certainly they look perfectly proportioned aesthetically, and that's what matters most in a fictional universe, but do you think their wings would need to be much bigger if gargoyles existed in real life?
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 4:21:35 pm EST from 76.165.32.65

Or it's a sign to US -- that we should all become Holmesian and puzzle something out...a new game? Heh.

Also, I didn't know Greg edited the wiki.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 3:19:53 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

On GargWiki, Greg W just added a link (at the moment it's a dead-end) to Sherlock Holmes from the "Hound of Ulster" page. Anyone want to speculate on what that might mean? Does Greg have some plans for the great detective in the Gargoyles universe?
Supermorff
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 2:39:59 pm EST from 81.155.47.133

Shucks. Well, I hope he does decide to upload a few pages at some point.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 1:07:34 pm EST from 76.165.38.106

Rebel> I found this site: http://david-hutchison.blogspot.com/

On the site, David Hutchison says, "Well, my work on Slave Labor's 'Gargoyles' is pretty much done at this point. I just have a couple of covers left, I'm waiting for approval of the layouts. It's been an interesting, if brief experience. While I wish that I had more time to do the work, I enjoyed it immensely and got to see how another company works with artists and writers. Very cool. Maybe I'll upload some of those pages at some point."

So maybe we'll see some stuff if and when he uploads them.
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 1:02:30 pm EST from 70.15.84.29

I believe that JLAnderson (not to be confused with our fandom's CrzyDemona) is an employee of Antarctic Press, which is where Robby and David Hutchinson work.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 12:56:39 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Hey, doesn't David Hutchinson have a web site of his own? I've tried searching for it but I can't seem to find it. According to one of the comments on his deviantart, there MIGHT be a page of his Gargoyles work floating around out there, already colored by Robby Bevard.

Here's the comment in question:

"I showed one of my friends a page that you did today (that was all colored by Robby) and she's SUPER excited to see the story you worked on. At least you know it made one big Gargs fan happy!"

Now this could just be a personal friend of his who he showed the page to, or it might mean that it's on his website somewhere, if he has one.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 12:39:54 pm EST from 76.165.38.106

Wow. That's a great cover. The anatomy is pretty much spot-on, as far as I can tell. I do feel that there may have been better options for poses for the flesh Brooklyn--for example, I would love to have seen a cover with him actually touching his own stone self.

If Hutchinson's art for the interior of the issue looks anything like this, then all my doubts about his art are dispelled. I assumed everything he did would have a definite anime/manga style, but maybe that's not going to be the case, which is great. IMO, this cover definitely looks better than the one Hedgecock did. If the art in the actual issues is anywhere near this good, then I hope Hutchinson will stick around for a while.

*is even more excited for the TPB*
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 12:24:38 pm EST from 76.165.38.106

#11 cover> Overall, it's very good. There is a cramped look to it, but then again there would be two factors. Number one would be, of course, the cover size and dimensions (so wide-format is out). Two is the situation; you try standing on the same perch as a statue and find room. It would have been nice to see it in color. Who knows, it may be colored by the time it's included in the trade.
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 11:50:13 am EST from 68.190.20.172

The cover sketch reminds me of the creativity demons I used to have (all the way back to the late 90's, when I was working on TGS in its early stages) of Brooklyn, during his Timedancing, winding up at Castle Wyvern and encountering his frozen self.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 10:15:08 am EST from 198.209.226.130

Brook> I already outlined my opinion below.

#11 cover> First of all, lets keep in mind how much a cover can change before publication. That said, it is alright. Kinda fun. It makes me excited to read the issue, as should be its goal, but coming from a hardcore fan that may not mean much.

I think the theme of this week's conversations should be: "We'll have to wait and see."
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 9:24:55 am EST from 70.237.192.94

Ricky> Nice find!

I do like it and given that the scene is mentioned in the solicitation, I think it's a nice image to have on the cover. But I do have to say that the composition feels a little cramped to me. The awake Brooklyn's pose looks to me like it's designed to fit in the space available on the cover. It just doesn't feel natural. Maybe a wider angle, or more of a close-up so you can just see their faces, would have worked better. And the face on Brooklyn (again, the flesh one) feels a bit off. I think it's the angle of his beak. it makes it look a little like a human face that's been stretched from the nose on down.

But all in all, it is a nice cover and I can't wait to see the story that does with it.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 8:55:19 am EST from 146.115.115.33

"The ones Carusos taking off on CSI..." - rather the ones Kanye is displaying all the time. :D

@ Matt: I'd like to hear your opinnion. :) C'mon, LETS BET!! :D

Seriously, I don't try to imagine a single page of the comic, because I think Greg will surprise us.

The way that was described below is the obvious thing everybody thinks it might turn out. It is the first way to deal with it that comesto mind, which is normal - how to cram so many years in so few pages? Yet, with Greg and with Rock of Ages, I can see him doing a VERY different approach.
Also, I do think that CB gets an ending similliar to HUNTERS MOON, not a cliffhanger or "BABOOM" ending, where Brooklyn and his family turn up and everybody gasps and Brook goes "There we are... back home." and that's just it. That i SO not Greg W.
Brook
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 8:50:11 am EST from 84.191.222.46

Thought everyone here would love to know what I just found: http://dhutchison.deviantart.com/art/Gargoyles-105375452

That's the pencils for the cover of Gargoyles #11, by David Hutchison.

What do you guys think?? I think it's looking pretty great.
Ricky
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 8:43:33 am EST from 151.205.179.238

Demonskrye> Huh. Your scenelet made me realize, seeing the sun on tv for the first time must have been pretty exciting for them. They already thought tv was great in general, and it was showing them tons of crazy modern things they'd never imagined before, but in the 10th century, there was no way they would have been able to see even a real representation of what daylight looked like. Their whole existence was lit by the moon and fire, and the fading sunset and breaking dawn. Heck, they were probably bowled over, as any pre-electric person would be, by the mere phenomenon of such pervasive, persistent artificial light.

Dwelling on it too much would seriously hamper story progression, but sometimes considering the gargoyles from a medievalist's perspective, as not just gargoyles but citizens of the tenth century, is really mind-boggling. Realistically, their entire mentality would be incredibly alien in a lot of respects. The show does a pretty good job of not completely dismissing it, or going all comedically Les Visiteurs on us, but I do sometimes wish I could see it addressed a little more.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 8:34:26 am EST from 208.194.97.9

Sun: Not All It's Cracked Up To Be> Here's something I came up with:

Lex: We're not turning to stone. Looks like this is going to work.
Hudson: Never thought I'd live to see the day.
Lex: Heh. Good one, Hudson.
Hudson: Thank you, lad.
Lex: Look! Here it comes!
::The sun rises.::
Lex: Wow!
Hudson: Everything looks so different.
Lex: I can't believe how warm it is.
Hudson: Aye. Better than central heating.
Lex: It's bright too.
Hudson: That it is. Very bright.
::pause::
Lex: Hudson?
Hudson: Yes lad?
Lex: (squinting) I can't really...see anything.
Hudson: (also squinting) You too? Then it's not just my old eyes.
Lex: You want to go inside.
Hudson: I think so. Either that or get some of those...you know, the ones Caruso's always taking off on "CSI: Miami?"
Lex: Sunglasses?
Hudson: Aye.

Well, think about it. They're completely nocturnal. Isn't it at least a possibility that the sun is actually a little to bright for gargoy eyes to handle?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 8:17:48 am EST from 146.115.115.33

BISHANSKY - That would certainly make a contrast to the way that Goliath, Demona, and Coldstone (well, Iago in Coldstone's body) responded towards seeing the sun.
Todd Jensen
gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 7:51:13 am EST from 4.244.215.18

Blather> Great stuff. I find them very funny. Has anyone ever read one of his "blathers" before and been inspired to write one of their own?
Charisma82
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 2:19:50 am EST from 64.13.117.74

You know what would amuse me? If Lex saw the son and said...

"That's it? That's what all the fuss is about? Lame!"
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 2:19:00 am EST from 24.205.39.101

My personal sentiment is that gargoyles' sleep cycles ARE governed by internal rhythms...those rhythms are determined by the rising and falling of the sun, so normally, their internal time and the sun setting or rising coincides. But issue #7 showed us clearly that, when a gargoyle's internal rhythm and the actual state of the sun (of being risen or set) are in conflict, it is the internal rhythm which prevails. If this is the case when the gargoyles wake up, I don't see why this wouldn't be the case when they go to sleep as well.

Now, I would agree that the sight of the sun rising would be a pretty powerful stimulus for a gargoyle to enter stone sleep. And, I think if a gargoyle was disrupted from his normal sleep cycle by only a very small amount (say, 15 minutes) then seeing the sun would probably make him turn to stone immediately, despite that discrepancy, since it's so small.

However, I think when that disruption is fairly substantial (like Lex's and Hudson's in #7) I tend to think the internal rhythms would prevail, since the discrepancy between when their bodies "think" they should turn to stone, and when the sun actually rises, is so large.

To simplify what I'm saying, imagine this scenario. Let's pretend you consistently go to bed at 10:00 p.m. every night and get a solid eight hours of sleep. It would be very easy for you to go to sleep early one night, at say 9:15. But it would be much harder for you to go to sleep at, say, 7:00 p.m. I realize that human sleep patterns and gargoyle sleep patterns are wildly different and maybe this isn't a fair comparison. But I honestly think that, if a gargoyle's internal cycle was way off and he saw the sun rising, his internal rhythms would prevail. At least that's what I hope.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 2:04:46 am EST from 76.165.34.220

Sorry, I just have a ton of questions. Not living near any of the Gathering locations and being flat out broke most of the time, after all.

Gargoyle Jet-lag: Hm...its an interesting concept that I'd like to see expanded upon. A gargoyle seeing the sunlight for the first time would be rather sweet, his/her thoughts on it.
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 12:51:09 am EST from 68.186.243.160

Robby > I would read Gargoyle novels that had a Greg W stamp of approval on them and nothing short of that. We dont want The Goliath Chronicles in book format :P

Jet Lag > I guess I see what youre saying, Matt. But I still feel like it would take at least two sleep cycles to get them back to normal. They couldnt just be fine the next day, they need to adjust. Lex felt really bad waking up that first night, I bet it took him a while to shake it off.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 12:40:18 am EST from 209.243.38.9

Robby Barrows> Why would anyone here say no to that?

Just something I noticed, you don't really seem to converse or debate here, just drop questions. Why don't you really get into it? I'd love to read your opinions more.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 12:16:03 am EST from 24.205.39.101

Do you think some official novels should be made? I mean, full blown ones?
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Thu, Dec 4, 2008 12:09:23 am EST from 68.186.243.160

Demonskrye - I'd like the contest to include the trade paperbacks as well, but that's Ed Reynold's call. Anybody heard from him lately?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 11:50:58 pm EST from 98.20.158.198

Litwolf> I'm not sure there is all that much similarity in gargoyles and humans when it comes to jet lag. Keep in mind that just because Macbeth calls it jet lag, doesn't mean that the gargoyles were experiencing the same phenomenon. Humans and gargoyles clearly have very different sleeping processes. Humans seem to be more affected by their internal circadian rhthyms, while gargoyles seem to response more to the rhthyms of the Earth itself.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 11:48:52 pm EST from 70.237.192.94

Thanks for that link, Landon. I guess thats as good as we'll get. But Im sure Greg W would Ramble if there was any further word. Maybe in early Jan theyll have a better idea.

Oh look, I found Greg W commenting on the term 'gargess'. He doesnt seem to like it so much ^_^ http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=2235
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:53:15 pm EST from 192.146.226.148

Litwolf: "BTW, has it been confirmed that the TPB will be released in Jan of '09 or is that still speculation? I really really hope it to be true, Im dying to read the ends!"

From http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10977 -

"Dan Vado informs me he's planning to release both trades in January."

That's dated October 17. I did some math at the time and it seemed like an optimistic/best-case-scenario release date. That's the latest update. It'll only be 'confirmed' when a Diamond shipping list says it's coming out the Wednesday of the same week. I don't say that to be pessimistic, just that every stage of production has seen delay at one time or another. It's hard to predict. But since Dan Vado himself said it, I'd call it better than speculation.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:14:16 pm EST from 216.250.163.157

Gargess > I initially liked the word, thought it sounded beautiful. However, the more I read it, the less I liked it. We're all in agreement that we hate the word. Does anyone know what Greg W has to say about it? Has he even heard the word?

Stone Jet Lag/Matt > I respecfully disagree. If the jet lag gargoyles get is anything like human jet lag, it takes most people two days to recover. Now some might adjust better than others. When I went to Germany with my family, my parents took longer to adjust to the difference (about 36-48 hrs) than my younger brother and sister (probably 15 hrs, they napped and were running crazy after that) and I took the longest because I traveled while already being sick (two and a half days, the most miserable two and a half days of my life, I felt terrible). Maybe Lex would bounce back to normal faster than Hudson because he's younger. But I definitelly think theyd get the pleasure of at least one sunrise. And I do really hope we get a panel or two showing if this was true. It doesnt have anything to do with the storyline but I want to see it ^_^

The End of ClanBuilding > This is how I picture it to end. The last comic will show Brooklyn being picked up by the Gate from Manhattan after getting Demona and Xantos to meet. If we're really really lucky, we'll get a page or two of images from Brook's most exciting adventures: maybe a picture of the SpaceSpawn, Fu-dog's fellow gargbeasts, Katana poised for battle, an egg, Brooklyn bloody with his permanent injury. Stuff like that. After that (or, if we dont get what I just described, it will jump right to this) it will go back to the Manhattan Clan, wondering where Brook has gone. This wouldnt last too many pages since Greg W has now said the wait from Brooklyn getting picked up and his return with his family is only 45 secs. So theyll wonder what has happened. Then the Gate will appeare, spit Brooklyn and family out, we'll get a full page view of Katana, Nashville, and Fu-dog, and then the comic will end.

Thats how I picture it to happen.

BTW, has it been confirmed that the TPB will be released in Jan of '09 or is that still speculation? I really really hope it to be true, Im dying to read the ends!
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:50:07 pm EST from 192.146.226.148

Greg W. >> Wow... That's some good blathering... Love that flying monkey brain! XD *Gives two thumbs up*
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)> 3D modeling class this quarter... Sweet...
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:30:19 pm EST from 67.101.237.11

Happy un-birthday Greg!

As for the Timedance, I find it quite interesting, but I certainly don't want forty years of stories in two issues. Too much to take in...
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told-though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:54:15 pm EST from 71.239.117.121

Robby> I think the series makes it pretty clear that Sevarius based the first batch of mutates on gargoyles, but not the London Clan specifically. He had to work with the DNA available to him and used gene splicing for the wanted traits. He specifically mentions the strength and speed of jungle cats in particular. So, Leo looks like a lion and so does Maggie, but Maggie carries lion DNA, whereas Leo is 100% gargoyle. I doubt Sevarius is aware that the London Clan exists at all.

Brook> What makes you so sure that Brooklyn's family and injury are the most important things about the Dance. Afterall, since they are basically tagging along on the adventures the Gate is sending Brooklyn on, they could be said to be the least important part of the Dance. You want to see his family, you want to see how he meets Katana and gets his injury and all that. Of course you do. So do I. So do all Gargoyles fans. But this is probably not the place to do it. I'd rather wait til we see the TimeDancer spin-off and Greg can devote the time and energy to telling these stories, instead of cramming them into the last issue or two of the main Gargoyles comic.
When Brooklyn returns to the Castle, from his perpective he has been gone for FORTY YEARS. He'll have all sorts of stories to tell and blanks to fill in, including his family story. In my opinion, since this is the Gargoyles comic and not the TimeDancer comic, the most important story is related to the Manhattan Clan. And to me that means the alliance that would awaken the Clan is paramount as well as Brooklyn returning home. Brooklyn's many other stories will be told in TimeDancer, where they belong. Afterall, having Katana and Fudog and Nashville join the Clan will be important right now, but finding out how we met them can wait. This is Clan-Building.
Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see. But I'd put my money on my idea about what we'll see in 10-12.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:51:05 pm EST from 70.237.192.94

Robby> I agree with Asatira. If Sevarius knew about the London Clan, I think it would have come up by now. I think the mutates were basically Sevarius's best effort at giving Xanatos a group of gargoyle equivalents that he could control. The species he chose seem to be based on copying both the look and the physical abilities of gargoyles as closely as possible without actually using gargoyle DNA (that would come later when he cloned Goliath to create Thailog.) Why he chose to use big cats instead of an animal that may have resulted in a mutate that looked more like a gargoyle is something you would have to ask Greg. Or Sevarius. But if Sevarius knew about the London Clan and was consciously trying to create mutates that resembled them, I think we would have seen him using several animals as the main basis for the various mutates, since the London gargoyles resemble quite a few different animals.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:45:06 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Robby> Nope, don't think so. The London Clan has managed to keep itself pretty well hidden. Even if you took into account Leo and Una's appearances, they were considered eccentric shop owners. So naw, nothing of the London Clan to influence Sevarius's mutate design. It was just a coincidence.
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:32:05 pm EST from 68.190.20.172

Do you guys thing Sevarius unintentionally modeled the first mutates after the London Clan? Either he saw a shot of Leo and got inspired?
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:06:20 pm EST from 68.186.243.160

dph> I'm guessing that's going to depend on whether Ed wants to keep the contest limited strictly to comics that were released in 2008 - in which case it's pretty much done since we're looking at January as the target release date for the graphic novels, or if he would rather expand it to include all comics that were slated for release this year. The latter might be a good option, since right now, I don't know that we'll really have sufficient material for a 2009 contest, especially with the only new '09 material slated to come out right at the beginning of the year.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 3:08:03 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Anybody remember this: http://home.windstream.net/melvinsh/garg/garg2008predcomp.htm ?

Ed - if you're out there and want to hold off discussing it, please let us know.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 2:51:27 pm EST from 98.20.158.198

Brook > To me, Brooklyn getting his injury, and meeting Fu-Dog and Katana and forming his family are the things that I am most interested in as regards to his timedancing. So, to an extent, I agree with you. These things are the things that I WANT to see the most. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that these are the things we NEED to see the most, from a storytelling perspective. Brooklyn catalyzing the alliance between Demona and Xanatos is pretty important--without that, the Manhattan clan would never have awakened.

Besides, it's quite possible that a Timedancer spin-off TPB might happen someday. If it does, I'm sure we'll see Brooklyn getting his injury, meeting Katana, etc.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 1:08:16 pm EST from 66.218.211.93

Greg B.: D'oh! It's so obvious I'd only just woken up when I read that. Well, happy unbirthday to you, Greg! :P
D. Taina
The story is told -- though who can say if it be true...
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 11:49:40 am EST from 74.213.114.227

Greg B.> Ah, yeah. Pardon me to hell.

In that case, consider it a late birthday wish to him.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 11:35:11 am EST from 68.75.20.175

Robby> Just every now and then. Random intervals, but rare.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 11:33:36 am EST from 68.75.20.175

Taina and King Cobra> Greg's birthday is September 28th!

But to get into the spirit, Greg, a very merry unbirthday from me to you!
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 11:33:11 am EST from 24.205.39.101

Happy 45th birthday, Greg!!

Gorebash: Thanks a ton!
D. Taina
The story is told -- though who can say if it be true...
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 11:27:54 am EST from 74.213.114.227

Wow. How often does Greg post here?
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 11:18:20 am EST from 68.186.243.160

I guess Greg is listening to a LOT "VELVET UNDERGROUND" considering thi, uh, text...

Anyways, WHAT THE... I just wanted to ask the h part, but I figured it would be inappropiate and illogic. :) So I'm rather happy to see you in here and appreciate this rather, uh, weird piece of prose.

That List: I am more than surprised about that cast list, yeah... Blachefleur and Duval?? Oh my...

@ Matt: I'm really o noo sure about that. The alliance and Mary/Finella have been confirmed, yeah, but Brooklyns family is the most prominent part of the timedancing. I mean, sure, he sets up these things, but isn't it more important to show where he found his mate?

Just imagine we get 3 issues just dealing with M&F, setting up the alliance and, say, 2198. Brooklyn would resurface with a permanent injury and family, and everybody would go "Hey, I don't really care if he set up the thing with M&F or D&X, those things could have been shown in flashbacks or told through Brooklyn at another point. The character is altered, heavily, and I want to know why."

My guess is that Greg is going with a kind of SoD approach, but very different at the same time. Probably we see something more linear this time with Brooklyn being the one that is unlinear...
Brook
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:04:38 am EST from 84.191.215.94

Demona Tania: Link updated
Gorebash
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:40:48 am EST from 207.206.236.230

*looking at the cast list that Bishansky posted*

The names on this one make me all the more eager to read the trade paperback with #9 when it come out: speaking roles for Duval, Blanchefleur, and the Grail! (Not to mention the Stone of Destiny speaking again, and apparently Lunette gets a speaking role.) To top it off, a new character named Peredur - whose name intrigues me, because a Welsh version of the Percival story, found in the Mabinogion, calls Percival "Peredur", and we know that Percival is Duval's true identity (in canon-in-training, at least).

I assume that the Coldstream Guard is the chap calling for the bomb squad in #7 and #8. (An appropriate British troop division to bring in, with the Coldtrio about.)

I also think it's great that Thom Adcox and Keith David got to reprise their roles in the radio play.
Todd Jensen
gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:04:17 am EST from 4.244.214.128

Greg W: So, do you listen to Velvet Underground or the Talking Heads much?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"The Space People think factories are musical instruments. They sing along with them. Each song lasts from 8 AM to 5 PM. No music on weekends." -David Byrne
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:25:14 am EST from 76.27.174.85

Greg W.> Happy birthday.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 4:45:47 am EST from 68.75.20.175

Sorry for the double post, but I should have acknowledged for the sake of accuracy that I'm 45 now, but nothing else has changed about Blather, and it seemed wrong to make the edit.
Greg Weisman
"Get those sporks out of my son!" -- J. Jonah Jameson
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 3:36:11 am EST from 68.183.95.134

It's that time again...

Blather

So in a tryce came the documentary depicting many a Chinese doll and also the three wise men (who may or may not have been kings) that needed sixty-two dollars between them to redeem the coupon, which offered up solace and not a little irony to anyone who hadn't yet seen the crew chewing on leaves that weren't tobacco, but might have been sage and still left horrible stains in the dirt floor of the lean-to where I left my ski poles after the overnight with the cranes that were kept on the lake domestically for the purpose of tourism but who could also speak Latin on occasion when prompted by offers of cheese or jerky -- though not just any jerky, it had to be salmon jerky -- which isn't always easy to come by when you've agreed to leave before closing on summer days in the springtime of your life, which has been known to last longer in people who aren't concerned about under-inebriation or over-intoxication or both: it's the balance which is everything when nothing else will do and no one else will participate in the extravaganza that's been created by the giant invisible flying monkey brain that is modern life in the Twenty-First Century, counting since the (approximate) birth of Christ -- as long as the lack of the number zero doesn't disturb your math sensibilities as, frankly, it does mine, though I like to think I've made peace with that and with the Skrull too, since I haven't picked up an issue of that book in about nine years, which wasn't an intentional or explicit act of cold turkey so much as a sliding away followed by a none-too-impressive epiphany -- far from the best epiphany I've ever had, say, compared to Tintagel or Lego, not to mention the birth of certain children, which couldn't get more personal than the zany antics of the semi-erotic flea circus, which used to travel the stars waiting for an invitation to land at your door, since you are the personal target of the extra-lunar probe that counted all the seahorses that Aquaman used to make the giant seahorse that he could actually ride, though no faster than he could swim himself on his own power -- and no, we're not talking Super Friends here, but something older, more primal, something that was born back when the Ptero-whatever streaked across the sky leaving behind contrails made not of smoke but of pure and unadulterated grace, a commodity in which we are sorely shy as a planet, and yet which we find in the most unlikley of places, including but not limited to contracts which dictate how we will interact with each other but do it in such a way that no normal human being could possibly wrap their heads around the language and internalize the meaning, which we declare to be progress or civilization and which is not meant as a criticism so much as a detachment of troopers marching on a hill that you wouldn't pay five ducats -- FIVE! -- to buy yourself, or so I told myself and Hamlet night after night, but now Hamlet is a Thief on FX and I haven't seen him face to face in over twenty years, which sometimes seems quite normal but sometimes blows me away, not that I want to move backwards at all, though I'm not sure that I'm truly moving forward and I'm convinced I'm not moving sideways, though the metaphor of the sidewinder is appealing, not in the cliché sense of something sinister and left-handed, though I do throw with my left hand, I can bowl just as badly with either hand, and even though I'm 42, I quite prefer to have bumpers instead of gutters, where the rain gets backed up and sometimes flows over the lip and creates leaks in the roof and drips, drips, drips down into the shiny metal bowl that's usually used for something much more pleasant like mixing cookie dough to create chewy wonderful ... well.. cookies (I mean "duh") that taste a little bit like home even when you are home and it is raining, or maybe ESPECIALLY when you are home and it is raining and the water overflows and the ocean fills and the giant seahorse peaks out and winks at the cranes, which is exactly what the documentary crew was hoping to capture when they first took out their cameras and shot the whole thing from three different angles across six different days and still never saw the giant invisible flying monkey brain, because it was, to put it mildly, invisible.
Greg Weisman
"Scram, kid!" -- J. Jonah Jameson
posted @ Wed, Dec 3, 2008 3:34:26 am EST from 68.183.95.134

And keep in mind, Brook, that just because Issues 10-12 deal with Brooklyn's Timedancing doesn't mean everything that happens during the Dance will be seen in those issues. My guess is that 10-12 will deal with Brooklyn bringing the Grimorum, Mary and Finella to the 1970's and setting up the alliance between Xanatos and Demona (thus featuring Demona). I suspect that Issue 12 will end with Brook's return with family, though the exact details of how and where and when he met FuDog and Katana will go unknown for the moment, or perhaps breifly mentioned.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Tue, Dec 2, 2008 10:02:39 pm EST from 70.237.192.94

Oh wow. Lots of characters appearing in #9 that I wasn't aware of. I wish I had seen that cast list sooner.

*can't wait until the TPB comes out*
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Dec 2, 2008 8:10:28 pm EST from 76.165.36.217

Brook> If you check the cast list for the recent Radio Play, which was Gargoyles #7, #8 and #9. Demona was no where to be seen among that list.

::searches Ask Greg... found it::

THE GATHERING PLAYERS - 2008 Edition
NARRATOR - Greg Weisman
MACBETH - Erik Mambu
SHARI - Jennifer L. Anderson
COLDSTEEL - Eric Tribou
LEXINGTON - Thom Adcox
STONE OF DESTINY - Justin Summerhill
HUDSON - Jordan Mann
DAVID XANATOS - Jaret Morlan
ARTHUR PENDRAGON - Patrick Fisher
CONSTANCE/COCO - Laurean Leigh
STAGHART/AMP - Seth Jackson
GRIFF - Chip
THAILOG - Keith David
COLDSTONE - Revel
COLDFIRE - Sarah the Great
GOLIATH - Keith David
COYOTE 5.0 - Jaret Morlan
PEREDUR - Seth Jackson
COLDSTREAM GUARD - Chip
ELISA MAZA - Phoenix Talon
JAY SATO - John/Flanker
BLANCHEFLEUR - Laurean Leigh
CUSTOMS OFFICIAL - Patrick Fisher
BROOKLYN - Jae
DUVAL - John/Flanker
FOX - Phoenix Talon
BROADWAY - Lucas McClain
HOLY GRAIL - Lucas McClain
LUNETTE - Phoenix Talon
VINNIE GRIGORI - Jae
AIRPORT INTERCOM - Lucas McClain
OWEN BURNETT - Jae
MAGGIE THE CAT - Sarah the Great
TALON - Revel
SCOTTISH PATRIOT - Jordan Mann
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Tue, Dec 2, 2008 7:53:02 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

I guess she is featured in 9.

Think about it - 10-12 is about Brooklyn and his timedancing. So it is very unlikely we're going to see her in action.

I wonder just HOW Greg is going to use the Timedancing... I mean what he shows us. Looking at #6 again, there is very little room for Brooklyn taking the two girls to the 70s, visiting feudal Japan to get Fudog, going to 2198 and back to feudal Japan to finally end up in 90s Manhatten... kinda fast paced...
Brook
posted @ Tue, Dec 2, 2008 7:43:29 pm EST from 84.191.244.167

I sincerely hope Clan-Building doesn't end on some kind of goofy cliff-hanger. I have no problems with cliff-hangers in general when they take place within an arc, but the last chapter of clan-building as well as its final arc SHOULD NOT end with a cliff-hanger. It's perfectly okay if its ending is...open-ended, the way "Reawakening" was at the end of season 1. But there definitely needs to be some kind of resolution.

If Demona is going to be featured in Clan-building, I hope she's a prominent figure in the 10-12 arc, not a cliff-hanger. If she's going to be there as a cliff-hanger...I'd almost rather she not be there at all, as much as I love her.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Dec 2, 2008 7:26:04 pm EST from 76.165.36.217

'Cancelled' is definitely not a good word to use... After all, the comics were never cancelled if it was just the license that expired...

Back to work I go... (>**)>
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>-.-)> Zzz...
posted @ Tue, Dec 2, 2008 6:46:41 pm EST from 209.247.78.54

Phil: 'Canceled'? Can't we just say 'put on hold'? 'Canceled' seems so negative...
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told-though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Tue, Dec 2, 2008 5:25:48 pm EST from 71.239.117.121

Robby: I've been wondering how our favorite sadistic red-head was going to show up. My guess is at the last page of #12. I have the slightest suspicion that Greg is going to leave us all in suspense...
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told-though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Tue, Dec 2, 2008 5:24:12 pm EST from 71.239.117.121

Demona> I'm pretty sure she is going to appear in Clan-Building. Have a look at the third-to-last paragraph when Greg told us about the comic's cancellation: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=787
Supermorff
posted @ Tue, Dec 2, 2008 3:40:09 pm EST from 81.155.47.133

Robby>"Does anyone have an idea on what Greg had planned for Demona in the comics? We saw her briefly in the Invitation Only Arc, getting that crystal. Will she be in an larger arc soon?"

I think only Greg knows. I'm sure we'll see her again eventually, but not anytime soon (since the comic is cancelled for now).
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 2, 2008 2:49:37 pm EST from 69.131.42.43

Does anyone have an idea on what Greg had planned for Demona in the comics? We saw her briefly in the Invitation Only Arc, getting that crystal. Will she be in an larger arc soon?
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan "With Great Power comes even Greater Responsibility"-Uncle Ben Parker of Spider-Man
posted @ Tue, Dec 2, 2008 11:49:59 am EST from 68.112.246.66

**Drops off leftover pumpkin pies on the cookie table . . . "Seriously, three pies made for Thanksgiving, and not a single cousin came over!"**

Jet Lag: I just figure if Greg wrote that Macbeth has given Lex and Hudson ten days to adjust, he'll probably make use of that line in the coming issue, but then again, now I'm liking Matt's idea of catching the sun's rays in New York as-well-as/instead-of catching them in London.

Oh, I don't know, just let me read the issue already! :P

Matt: The CR fireplace has been burning TGC for quite some time now ;)
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Dec 1, 2008 8:20:07 pm EST from 157.242.209.13

Stone Jet Lag> I dunno. I understand the arguments that Lex and Hudson would remain awake after dawn for a short bit. It makes some sense, and it certainly a romantic idea. But I think it probably doesn't happen. On the day they were moved, they were already doing some serious adjusting. They awoke a few hours late for London, sure, but they also woke up a few hours early for Manhattan. And this is after less than a day of travel. By the time dawn rolls around, I imagine they've adjusted much further to the local cycle. Macbeth gave them ten days to adjust, but I'm not convinced they needed it. I think they could adjust after a day or so. Furthermore, Greg has said in the past that the visual sensation (not the Sun's rays) of SEEING the Sun rise at dawn is a pretty powerful stimulus to drive a gargoyle into stone sleep. Even if their bodies' clocks are not perfectly synched up by that first dawn, the Sun may get them to immediatly reset to the proper schedule.
I think it is more likely they would experience sunlight if/when they fly home and again experience jet lag, but in the opposite direction. Maybe. I still think the visual stimulus of seeing the Sun would put them to sleep. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Gargess> It is a rare moment when everyone in the Comment Room reaches a unanimous opinion on a subject, but I believe we ALL can agree that the word 'gargess' is stupid or unneccesary or improper or whatever. It isn't canon and everyone hates it, so I say we throw it into CR fireplace with TGC... Ah, feel the warmth...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Mon, Dec 1, 2008 8:03:45 pm EST from 70.237.192.94

it was Demonskrye not Robby, forgive the mistake. I have been awake for 19 hours.
Monkey - [johnr783 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:22:39 pm EST from 69.155.116.210

Let me start off by saying, I do not like the term "gargess" it is ugly and choppy. Not ugly as in offensive, mind you, but ugly as in not smooth, doesnt flow, not pretty. It doesnt tickle my tongue. Best described by Robbie(?, Forgot the name already) as "rolls off the tongue with the smoothness of a rather jagged boulder," (or something to that effect).

BUT I can udnerstand WHY the fanfic writer chose to make up such a word (Notice I didnt say create, the word create should only be used to describe something of beauty, at least as far as words are concerned. Anything else is "made up".)

"Man" indicates the species of human. From there, "Man" can also indicate males and "Woman" can indicate females. Thus, Gargoyle indicates the species of Gargate. Gargoyle can also indicate a male and Gargess (although a very ugly and highly unnecessary word) indicate a female.

This word should be 86'd, but I did want to share my theory on why the fanfic write chose to burden us all with such a noun.
Monkey - [johnr783 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:20:34 pm EST from 69.155.116.210

Rebel: Everything you said. Thank you.

Hope everyone had a happy Thanksgiving. I did. Then I came home to a symphony of minor disasters... *sigh* Isn't that always the way? Mostly sorted now...hope I can relax a bit with a glass of wine and a bit of gaming before work.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Mon, Dec 1, 2008 3:45:39 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

Demonskrye > Now that you mention it, it does seem more plausible that Lexington would make that connection long before the dawn actually comes. He's a sharp kid. Anyway, I definitely hope that the two of them saw the sun.

"-Ess" words > Personally, I find the majority of those "-ess" words to be stupid and condescending. Attaching an "-ess" to a word to refer to a female makes her seem like someone who is not to be taken seriously. Plus, the fact that the female form is derivational of the "standard" male form bothers me a lot. Demona is NOT a "villainess" as far as I'm concerned, because there's no such thing (or rather, there shouldn't be). There are only villains, some of whom are male, and some of whom are female. Calling someone a "villain" makes them sound more dangerous than calling them a "villainess", IMO. Calling someone a "hero" makes them sound more heroic than calling them a "heroine". And what's the point of pointing out that someone is an "heiress"? Is she not an heir all the same? A female lion is just as much of a lion as a male lion, there's no need for "lioness". I just hate all those goofy female forms of the standard words, and I wish that people would just use the standard words and forget the female forms, and only preface the standard word with "female" or "male" when the person's gender is actually relevant. Most of the time, it isn't.

**wants to shoot the people who coined "villainess", "heiress", "gargess", and most of the other "-ess" words**
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Dec 1, 2008 3:18:24 pm EST from 76.165.33.131

*clicks link.*

Okay, never mind.

*can be a dumbass*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Dec 1, 2008 3:13:31 pm EST from 68.75.20.175

Landon Thomas> What's an Annie?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Dec 1, 2008 2:46:41 pm EST from 68.75.20.175

Sean Galloway got nominated for an Annie: http://annieawards.org/foryourconsideration.html It's the only nomination for TSS-M. Hopefully they'll get more notice next year.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Mon, Dec 1, 2008 2:09:09 pm EST from 128.101.32.234

@ Rebel: If this moment ever would/will occur, I'm sure Greg would show it to us... one of the Wyvern Gargoyles seeing the sun for the very first time is a very poetic and iconic image...
Brook
posted @ Mon, Dec 1, 2008 1:27:04 pm EST from 84.191.223.161

Rebel> I think that's the case too. If it doesn't happen like you theorize, I could see Lex wondering immediately after figuring out that the lengthy and relatively quick trip has thrown off their sleep cycle (I imagine gargoyles traveling long distances under their own power would gradually adjust to the time changes long before it became an issue of jet lag) if this also means that they'll be able to stay awake past the dawn. Then he Hudson spend the last moments of the night in eager anticipation of a possible look at the sun and are rewarded when the dawn comes and they don't turn to stone. I hope issue #9 doesn't end up being so busy that we don't at least get to find out if Lex and Hudson did indeed get to see the daytime world for the first time.

The "Gargess" Mess> The thing that bugs me about the word is that it seems to have been invented despite the fact that they're absolutely no need for it. I've seen cases of a fan-made term coming out a real need, where a character or object or even a species has no given name in the canon. I'm sure there were all kinds of terms for gargoyle beasts flying around the fandom before we knew what they were collectively known as. "Redshirt," from the "Star Trek" fandom is a good and useful term to describe the numerous crew members of the Enterprise whose primary purpose is to be killed, showing the danger of the situation without causing harm to any of the regular cast. It's much simpler to say or type "reshirt" than that whole definition I just wrote out. But "gargess" does not convey any more meaning than "female gargoyle" and it's really not much less cumbersome. I could write "The female gargoyles gathered close together, cradling the hatchlings, while the males formed a protective ring around them." Does it become any clearer or sound any better if I change it to "The gargesses gathered close together, cradling the hatchlings, while that male gargoyles formed a protective ring around them"? No. I now have to write out "male gargoyles," since whoever invented "gargess" doesn't seem to have bothered to invent a similar term for male gargoyles. (not that I would really want that, as we'd soon be wading through fanfics about garbulls and garglings and gargateens and gargelders and so on.) And all I've gained is the word "gargesses," which rolls off the tongue with all the smoothness of a particularly jagged boulder.

Aside from that, are there really all that many situations in which people need to specify "female gargoyle/s"? The example I wrote above is one case. All of the females are doing one thing while all the males are doing another, so I need to specifically refer to the females as a distinct group. A lot of the GargWiki entries use the term "female gargoyle" since many of them start by identifying the character's gender and species. But in a lot of situations it's jusy not necessary. If I were writing about "Temptation" for example, I might write "The main villain of this episode is Demona, a gargoyle who despises humans and sees them as a serious threat to the survival of her kind." Depending on my readers' cultural background, they might already guess from her name that Demona is female if they weren't familiar with the character. But even if they didn't guess from her name, they would know by the end of the sentence because I use "her" in reference to Demona. And if that wasn't there, I would probably refer to Demona as "she" sometime early in the next sentence. So there wouldn't be a lot of time wasted with my readers being confused about Demona's gender. So there anything to be gained by writing it as "The main villain of this episode is Demona, a gargess who despises humans and sees them as a serious threat to the survival of her kind"? Nothing except for confusion as my readers wonder "What's a 'gargess'? Why didn't she just write 'female gargoyle' if that's what she meant?"
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Dec 1, 2008 1:13:23 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

In regards to Demon's comment last week about gargoyle jet-lag >

The way I see it, if gargoyle jet lag means that gargoyles can wake up from stone sleep later than normal, then it must also mean that they can turn to stone later than normal. It would be inconsistent if they woke up late but fell asleep at the normal time. What we know now thanks to issue 7 is that gargoyles' sleeping/waking times are governed by an internal cycle which NORMALLY coincides with the sun's rising/setting. But, something like a flight to another part of the world can throw it off.

(Admittedly, it is POSSIBLE that, while the sun's rays are not necessary to turn a gargoyle to stone, they might serve as an imperative. Thus, while a gargoyle will turn to stone no matter what if his internal cycle tells him to, he might ALSO turn to stone no matter what if the sun's rays touch him....from what we've seen so far, this could still be possible, though I sincerely doubt it, and frankly, it would be really stupid.)

It would make sense that Lex and Hudson got to see the sun at least once during their first few days/nights in London. If their internal sleep cycles somehow got realigned just in time to make them turn to stone at sunrise like they normally do...well, that would just be too "convenient"...or rather, inconvenient.

I've imagined that moment, when Hudson and Lex first saw the sun (if they did). They would probably be posing in their standard poses, looking out at the horizon, waiting to turn to stone. Then, after a while, one of them would comment aloud that they aren't turning to stone, and that it's probably because of the jet lag. Then the sun would start to rise and they would both be awed by its brightness and warmth. It would be a really cool moment for both of them.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Dec 1, 2008 12:00:56 pm EST from 76.165.38.84

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