Oh, and actually driving a stake and beheading kills a vampire.
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 11:48:19 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

But no, yes Warner Brothers are very strict over the name Harry Potter, and won't tolerate it, but Disney And Weisman do not own the rights of stone by day, warriors by night, heck even zoo tycoon had Gargoyles that turn to stone and become living creatures. Look it is an original idea, but i see it was wrong for me to put it here on the board, i should have just waited until the ask Greg was back on and then ask him myself if he knew what i meant or misunderstood me. Look can we just drop the whole thing, can we just start over, because i really am a fan of Gargoyles and i always wanted to have a job here or at GargWiki, Or at The Gathering Of The Gargoyles. I'm not what you think i am. In fact i even feel so terrible for upsetting Greg at the 2008 Gathering when i asked him for his cell phone! Look i just hope to work alongside Other fans of Gargoyles and even talk about it like i never talked before, i never met anyone who loves Gargoyles so much! So Jeniffer or whatever your name was head of the gathering, guys, can i have another chance and be welcomed into this group, this Family?
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 11:47:14 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Robby: I have a slight urge ask who could say what's the "real way" for mythical and undead beings to die. In the end, I think we're just going to have to wait and see Greg's interpretation of Vampires.

Me, I'm just intrigued by how much history and myth he intends to include (and there's no guarentee he'll lean towards one end of the spectrum or the other, or even a balance of both). Just remember, "All things are true, few things are accurate . . ."

Patrick: Totally forgot that wonderful line of Katherine's (though Kath Soucie totally comes in clear when I read it here -- gotta give credit to the wonderful cast they had!). I so need to see that episode again . . . .
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 11:26:49 pm EST from 68.98.115.219

I hope, since they're doing comics, we can have the real way Vampires die. Its not a stake through the chest that kills them-its beheading. If Vamps are featured, the real way should be done.
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 11:01:37 pm EST from 68.116.180.70

"Silver be for weres and vampires. For Oberon's Children, cold iron 'll do." - Princess Katharine, "Ill Met by Moonlight"
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 9:36:25 pm EST from 76.205.89.131

Thank you for the change, Algeron.

Did Princess Katharine mention vampires? Could you tell me where? I missed that somehow. I hope Greg doesnt have the vampires from Van Helsing in mind. I giggled the first time I saw them because they reminded me of our favorite gargoyles so much. Id love to see his thoughts on vampires. Im always curious to see how creative minds imagine vampires and other mythological creatures. You know, the different tweaks they give them.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 9:33:15 pm EST from 71.206.9.183

Whoops, sorry Algernon. I hope we didn't scare him away. :(
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 8:52:51 pm EST from 71.220.126.16

Wow, busy day. I'm not a lawyer, but I see only two factors that matter:

1) Is your Gargoyles-like product popular enough and/or making enough money to get noticed by Disney?

If so and you get sued for copyright infringement, 2) Do you deviate enough enough from the intellectual property to overcome Disney's lawyer army in court?

We're trying to tell you Daniel, if you'd just call your stuff 'fan fiction', you'll be in the clear with the fans, with Greg, and with Disney. Otherwise, if you're trying to nurture a professional writing career, write something completely, utterly, 100% dissimilar to Gargoyles. Make it completely your own. You'll avoid a lot of headaches in the future and you'll have something that will not run the risk of drawing the ire of Disney (or Greg or the fans). And it'll actually be *yours* to own, profit on, etc.

But posting about a gargoyle-like race that awakens at night and hangs out with Oberon and Titania, and then telling us it's your own original idea won't be welcomed on this forum. We certainly want all the fans and friends we can get on this site and at the convention, but what you've seen in just the past two days should indicate how strongly we feel about this.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 8:51:54 pm EST from 71.220.126.16

I'd like to propose an emergency change of subject. If this debate goes round in any more circles it's going to start reversing the Earth's rotation.

Anyway, I've recently made my first real contribution to the GargWiki. It's a short article on vampires and I'd thought I'd open it up to some constructive criticism

http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Vampire

So what do you all think? Personally I'm not really happy with the "real world", it's pretty much just a paraphrasing of stuff I cribbed of Wikipedia, I'm ashamed to say. Maybe Todd or one of the other folklore buffs here could help me polish it up a bit.
Algernon
Remember, Jesus loves you, but everyone else thinks you're a jerk!
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 8:46:07 pm EST from 83.71.110.240

Fanfiction and other fan creations> I don't know that there's that much of a "debate" about fanfiction in and of itself going on here. This is more about how fanfic is regarded by the original creator/s, and Greg in particular. I have never seen Greg Wiesman state that he hates fanfiction and wants it to go away. So far as I know, he has never made any attempt to have "Gargoyles" fanfiction taken down from the main websites that post it, which some creators and copyright holders do. At worst, I've seen him say that he regards fanfiction as a mixed blessing, which I think may be the attitude that most creators have towards it. On the one hand, it's flattering to know that your work appeals to people so much that they want to write their own stories about the world you've created. On the other hand, it can be kind of disconcerting to think of so many people messing around with the characters you've created, some writing terrific stories and some...not so much. Ask any fanfic author who's created an original character and had some one else "borrow" that character without permission and you'll likely find that imitation is not always flattering.

Greg's long standing policy has been that he won't look at any fan's "Gargoyles" work. Off the top of my head, I can't really think of any creator who will read fanfiction. In today litigious society, it's just too risky to have a stated policy of looking at fan work. Though many people do realize that there are a finite number of ideas in the world and sometimes two people will happen upon the same one just by chance, there are others who may not be so understanding or may just be looking for an excuse to sue. Either way, whatever reward might come from a creator of an original concept getting to read the fanfics based on the concept is greatly outweighed by the downsides.

My personal feeling is that fanfic and fanart and the rest are all perfectly fine things and they are definitely forms of flattery and support for the original property. But the ultimate form? Well, that's debatable. What do you think a writer finds more flattering: someone coming up and saying "Your work is so great that I've written my own stories using your characters and concepts" or someone saying "Your work is so great that it inspired me to write my own original stories." Even if you have a creator who has a pretty positive view of fanfiction, I think the second one is going to be more flattering. (It's worth noting that these two statements aren't mutually exclusive, as people can write both fanfiction and their own original work.) As for support, I do think the fan community and its creations have been a big help in keeping "Gargoyles" alive over the many years in which there has been no real new content. But there is good and bad fanfiction and bad fanfiction is not terribly helpful in keeping fans' interest in the property alive or wooing new fans to the concept. And if you asked me who was doing more to help "Gargoyles": a person who wrote some fanfics or a person who bought all the DVDs and comics and helped to promote them, I'd tend to lean towards the second person. (Again, these are not mutually exclusive.) Finally, though fans cannot financially profit from their fan creations, they can get some degree of a reputation if their writing is good and well liked among the fandom. Which is perfectly reasonable, but not something you see happening to people who just buy "Gargoyles" product or try to spread the word. So though most fans write fanfiction or make fanart or do whatever else they to that end with a partially original creative work out of love of the property, it's not as if they never get anything for their efforts.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 8:39:09 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Daniel> You said, and I quote...

"And no, it's not fan fiction it's a different series in a different universe. I'm with Greg that fan fiction shouldn't exist, I'm against it too!
Lord Of The Flies."

Those are your words. Stop pretending you didn't say it. So which is it?
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 8:26:42 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Litwolf > Actually, no, if you wrote about a character named Harry Potter, you would be sued no matter what his appearance or occupation. Warner Brothers sued a Bollywood production company over a character named "Hari Putar." The name Harry Potter is copyrighted and trademarked. In the same way, you could write about a rabbit named Bugs Bunny or a mouse named Mickey without being sued. It doesn't matter if the idea is not identical. It can still be considered infringing if the name or idea is too similar to the other property.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 8:17:02 pm EST from 76.205.89.131

And i was just saying that Greg encourages people to not write Fanfiction and stick to Original Ideas, so he'd at least prefer if it weren't there. Look yes taking a boy with a scar with a name harry potter is ripping off (even though a similar character named Larry Potter predated Rowling's character), but no, Gargoyles in General are pretty much the same as in the series. So look, i'm using original ideas, let's just stop talking about this and start over Okay?
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 8:13:39 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

And i don't take you for fools, for the last time it's not fanfiction, yes i was inspired to write my own series, but that's all, i did not steal from them. Gargoyles Franchise is copyrighted, but not Gargoyle Creatures, that idea can still be used and can still be an original idea. And i have many identities as I've already said before, because i can't just choose one user name and because i don't want my career to be ruined in case if i make public mistakes, or something. So look can we just start over, or is it too late?
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 8:08:42 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Daniel/Anon/Flies > Please pick a screen name and stick with it. All this switching is starting to give me a headache.

Greg W does support fanfiction for Gargoyles; he just doesnt want to read them for legal reasons.

We cant read Greg's mind so we have no idea what he meant when he answered your question. But he told you that there can be no money changed in matters of Gargoyles unless it goes to Disney and not to 'crib off a series you don't own'. Perhaps you should take his advice, seeing as you asked for it?

What I meant with the Hogwarts/Harry Potter example was the idea behind it. If you wrote a character named Hogwarts, a world named Hogwarts, or even a building named Hogwarts, you would be fine. If you tried to write a story about a magical school named Hogwarts, you would be sued so fast your head would spin. If you wrote a character that is a coal miner named Harry Potter, you would be fine. If you were to write a wizard with a scar named Harry Potter, you would never get published because its a blatant rip-off. Its the idea behind the name that counts.

Let me put it to you this way. Greg W and Disney's idea of Gargoyles is a talking creature that turns to stone in the day and so on and so forth. I read a book about Gargoyles in which they were angels sent by God and given stone forms to protect churches and humans on Earth. See what I mean? Same name, different ideas.

But Im with Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson. Im done arguing and trying to explain.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 8:07:47 pm EST from 71.206.9.183

If someone hopes to writing a novel, comic book, or movie script that can be mass-produced commercially, then yes, you need to work on original ideas. Taking heavy inspiration from another author or company's intellectual property will land you in court the minute you try to sell or distribute.

There is nothing wrong with writing fanfiction as a way to exercise your writing skills, so long as you recognize it as what it is. It's playing in someone else's sandbox. By all means, write fanfic, but give credit to the original creators, and don't play word games with your fellow fans in attempt to fool them into believing it's a totally original idea. The hostile reactions that are being scene here are happening because we are not fooled.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 7:32:22 pm EST from 76.205.89.131

Daniel/Anonymous/Lord of the Flies/Smeagol/Gollum/Norman/Goblin/Othello/Iago/Desdemona/Sybil: "Oh, and what about Greg saying that he encourages people to write original ideas rather than fan fiction?"

How does that translate to Greg saying that fanfiction should never exist? Where are you getting that? More over, why are you posting different opinions under different names?
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 7:29:58 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Oh, and what about Greg saying that he encourages people to write original ideas rather than fan fiction?
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 7:16:43 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Yes, but in Labyrinth, Sarah calls him by accident Hogwart, also Maleficent's minions are called Hog warts, really so it's been used before. Look guys, can't we get along, okay tell me, would you prefer if i use one identity? tell me and I'll do whatever you guys ask, so can i have another chance?
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 7:15:06 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

I'm not ripping off Gargoyles. And also even on other sites i have many accounts, i don't have multiple personality disorder, i just have many accounts to be careful with my reputations and because i can't think of a good screen name so i create several, it's hard to choose so i take all! Look can't we just get along, if it'll make you all feel better, I'll stick to one account okay, tell me which one you'd prefer that i use okay?
This One?
Anonymous
Anonymous
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 7:11:19 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Daniel/LotF/Anon - Hogwart is the name of a plant in the Southern US. Hoggle is the name of a character in Labyrinth. Hogwarts is the name of a school in Harry Potter that J.K Rowling doesn't know if she unintentionally named after the plant. Hog's wart is an ugly blemish on an ugly creature.

As for your endlessly repeated question - We cannot know whether Greg thought your idea was fanfiction. However, with as many similarities as your idea possesses to the Disney series the line between original and fanfiction is extremely blurry at best.
UncleDeadly
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 7:07:48 pm EST from 69.232.233.109

Holy multiple personality disorder, Batman!

You know what, I'm done talking to Daniel and all his aliases. This is ridiculous. All he wants is for one of us to tell him that ripping off Gargoyles is an ok thing to do. No, it's not. Stop writing Gargoyles and write something original instead!!

Also, if anyone needs help on the wiki, The Gathering or this site, they'll let you know. Right now, with all the aliases and you potentially trying to justify ripping off Gargoyles, I doubt anyone trusts you enough with any of those jobs.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"Some people juggle geese!" - Wash, Firefly
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 7:03:02 pm EST from 76.174.154.162

Greg has NEVER said that fanfiction should not exist.

It's times like these that I wish there was a Puck holding his head in exasperation avatar.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 7:01:44 pm EST from 76.205.89.131

And no, it's not fan fiction it's a different series in a different universe. I'm with Greg that fan fiction shouldn't exist, I'm against it too!
Lord Of The Flies. - [raviv5 at comcast dot net]
Lord Of The Flies.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 6:49:10 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

No, I'm not sure whether Disney would bring Gargoyles back, but they should, i hope to work at Disney and help bring it back or something. Also you guys haven't answered me, can i work here or on Gargoyles Wiki? I'm a big fan and I've always wanted to work with Gargoyles, or did i outlast my welcome here, cause if so, I'll gladly leave and not be a bother to you guys, so tell me the truth, am i annoying or offending you guys?
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 6:43:37 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Alright, Alright, you got me, but again why did i make different identities? well, besides the fact that i always have different accounts and more, but also because i didn't want to take the risk that my reputation here would be ruined once i told Greg and the others what I'm doing, I mean look, you guys gave me a warm welcome when i was Daniel Raviv, but when i was my other account you guys attacked me, called me a rip-off artist, and you say I'm worthless! look i know you guys told me if it's an original idea why am i so worried about what Greg thinks of it, well i wasn't, i was just asking him for advice, if he doesn't want to give me, fine, for the last time and please answer me, did Greg understand what i said, or did he think i was writing fan fiction? And no, Hogwarts (Or Hog Warts) has been used before, as has the name Harry Potter, (See It's A Wonderful life).
Anonymous
Anonymous
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 6:37:59 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Jen> "Edmund's project is rolling along quite well. We are still working on the financial particulars. The first issue is being lettered and Mara is already on her knees with Issue 2. Soon, very soon. keep watching for more!"

Woohoo!
Asatira
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 5:34:03 pm EST from 68.190.20.172

Ok, I would like to thank you all for clearing all that up for me. I hope things work out for SLG and Disney. I for one thought it might have been cool if Gargoyles ha made an appearance in either the theme parks or even Kingdom Hearts. (Demona vs Paine hehe) Anyway I notice the raging debate over fanfiction. I like fanfiction too and agree with that one person who said that fanfiction is the ultimate form of flattery and support. Speaking of which, years ago I read an extremely good Demona fanfic. It was one where she becomes kind of friendly with this nice human guy who starts out as a hot dog vendor and then tragically dies of cancer. I lost track of the site I found this. Anyone know?
Chris
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 5:31:23 pm EST from 205.188.117.134

Anon/Daniel - of course you know each other, you're the one using the same exact computer to write in the comment room mere minutes after each other. This group doesn't do well with people lying about their identities (especially when we have proof) so you may want to come clean now. If you don't plan to be honest, you may just want to stop posting, because no one is going to care what you say if you're going to lie.

And if you write a book with a school called Hog Warts in it, you will be sued. I guarantee it. Scream all you want, but it's the truth of it.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you" - Mal, Firefly
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 4:06:07 pm EST from 76.174.154.162

Oh, Okay, but if anything does open up or you don't have enough men, please let me know, unless I'm not good enough to work there, i hope i can someday work for the gathering. Also please let me know if i can work here or on the Gargoyles Wiki?
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 4:05:55 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Supermorff> The Ask Greg search function isn't working for me either, I just assumed there was something wrong with my browser. Pity, I wanted to look up some stuff for that vampire article on GargWiki.
Algernon
Remember, Jesus loves you, but everyone else thinks you're a jerk!
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 3:46:38 pm EST from 213.94.181.84

I'm not sure about that, and No, The Species of Gargoyles that live in clans, are stone by day, and warriors by night are not copyrighted by Greg and Disney, they've been in mythology before that, heck they're even in world famous dungeons and dragons franchise, So they do not own the copyright. Also I'm not Daniel, i don't even know him, i swear! And the name Hogwarts (OR Hog Warts more accurately) has been used before, look at Labyrinth, and some ancient middle ages books, you'll find it there! I never would've used Oberon, Titania Or Puck if they were made only for Gargoyles, that would be stealing, but since i now know they've been in mythology before that (as well as making appearances in DC Comics too) I'm allowed to use them. And no i saw Greg's Response, you guys got it all wrong, i just wanted to ask you guys what he meant by that, did he think i was writing fan fiction, or does he know that it's different but he still doesn't feel good about it, that's all! Also Disney is a much better studio than how the Simpsons portray them! Am i not welcome here? Should i just go and never come back?
Anonymous.
Anonymous.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 3:43:01 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Chris - Greg definitely doesn't need help, he's got enough stories juggling around in his head to handle several more full seasons. Why do you say he has a 'bad attitude'? He's been more than generous with his fans and spends plenty of time with them.

Brook - Edmund's project is rolling along quite well. We are still working on the financial particulars. The first issue is being lettered and Mara is already on her knees with Issue 2. Soon, very soon. keep watching for more!

Daniel/Anonymous - As Chair of the Gathering of the Gargoyles, I can confirm that there are no open positions on the staff (and if there were, we have over a decade of people who have worked on the staff previously with experience to help us). Also, you asked Greg for advice, and he gave it to you. You got the answer, you just don't want to see it. ... and I just dare you to try to use the Hogwarts in anything published. It's not TRADEMARKED, but it is copywritten. You should probably look up the difference.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
"I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you" - Mal, Firefly
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 2:39:16 pm EST from 76.174.154.162

Oi, I just lost this entire post and now I have to re-create it.

Chris> The fact is, that even though "Gargoyles" was SLG's best selling book, the very expensive license hardly made it its most profitable. Disney raised the licensing fee when it was up for renewal, and SLG couldn't justify the cost.

So, in about a year or so, SLG plans to go back to Disney with a more modest proposal to produce graphic novels. Which, I think would be a better move.

As for the last four issues of "Gargoyles" and the last two issues of "Bad Guys", they will all be available in the upcoming graphic novels finishing these two arcs up. And they'll likely be out in January of February.

#9 of "Gargoyles" never hit the stands because David Hedgecock had problems meeting the deadlines, but you'll see it in the graphic novel.

So, as you can see, this had nothing to do with Greg or his "lack of ideas." So, here is a novel idea, next time you could have ASKED FIRST what happened before throwing out wild accusations.

Daniel/Anonymous> Your I.P. address is your internet fingerprint.

Daniel Abraham Raviv. - dar111191 at gmail dot net
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 1:30:53 am EST from 24.7.204.215

Anonymous.
Anonymous.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 12:36:13 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

So, yes, we know who you are. Out of curiosity, were Oberon, Titania and Puck in "your version" before you found out they were Shakespeare characters or after?
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 1:58:49 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Oh, and I STILL can't use the search function on Ask Greg. Nobody else seems to have noticed - is it working fine for everyone else? (Sorry for double)
Supermorff
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 1:51:46 pm EST from 86.168.27.108

Chris> The reason for the delay has been covered quite comprehensively here and on other websites. Namely, that Disney decided not to renew the comic book's license, meaning that SLG is unable to publish any new issues. The remaining issues from 'Clan-Building' and 'Bad Guys' are going to be released in a pair of trade paperbacks, probably in January although we don't yet know the exact date. In addition, Dan Vado is planning to renegotiate the license with Disney in the new year in the hopes of publishing more Gargoyles stories as graphic novels. So there's still hope. (Did I miss anything out, guys?)

On a completely unrelated topic, I was just browsing GargWiki and came across the page on the 'Star of Arabia'. We don't know anything about it yet, but Greg never lets anything go, so I felt like speculating. Given who (many of us suspect) Shari really is, does anyone think she might have some connection or history with this jewel/relic/object?
Supermorff
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 1:50:37 pm EST from 86.168.27.108

I guess what I am getting at is that I have been to the local comic book stores for 8 months practically and no new chapters are coming forthwith. I too am aware of all the ideas Greg wants to release, Brookyln's tuime travelling escapades, the Olympians, search for Merlin, Castle Wyvern before the fall when Goliath and Demona were young, and of course, the future when the aliens attack.

I too would love to see all these stories finally come out. Demona is one of my favorite cartoon chicks of all time (even rivallling some o the awesome chicks in anime). If any of you know why there has been this massive delay though I would like to hear it. I am thinking the 3rd season of the new Street Fighter series will be done with by the time we find out what happens when Coldstone and his mate arrive to help the Gargoyles in London...and whether the Bad Guys survive thier first plane crash.
Chris
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 1:42:09 pm EST from 205.188.117.134

Anonymous > Greg and Disney own the rights to all things Gargoyles. That means not just the characters that appeare in the series but also the species of Gargoyles themselves. They dont own Gargoyles everywhere but they do own that breed of Gargoyle: the kind that live in Clans, turn to stone at night, are bipedal, can speak, live twice as long as humans, bear three eggs in their lifetime, have domesticated gargoylebeasts, all that stuff.

No one except Greg and Disney are allowed to make money off anything connected with the Gargoyles series. And, even though you say what you are doing is original, you also say that it is a spinoff of Gargoyles the show. 'i decided i want to create my own series of Gargoyles, with my own Characters and Creatures.' Thats your quote and you yourself say its Gargoyles related.

Fanart and Fanfiction (both about cannon and original characters) are not being put down by the creator. However, from the sound of it, you want to make a TV show, one for your school. If Disney heard of this, they would probably believe you are trying to compete with them for money, fame, etc. and they would sue/shut you down. A comic (I think you mentioned this as well) would not be so bad but you cant make any profit off it.

Do you see what Im trying to say? If you want to make your own original work, go for it. If its your own original idea, then you can do whatever you want with it. But if you try to claim any connection to Gargoyles and make money off it, you could be in a lot of trouble.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 1:33:18 pm EST from 71.206.9.183

I'm not sure about that. But no, they would take the idea, you can't say you cannot do another series about Gargoyles because Greg already did it. He owns the Rights To Gargoyles, but He doesn't own the rights to Gargoyles in general. I'm making my all original series, and i don't want to reveal my name because i don't want people yet to know who i am, since you guys are bashing me, and accusing me of being a ripoff artist, so why should i reveal it and have my career here and elsewhere be ruined? Which by the way, my school does charge money and sell DVD's, we even have our own television channel, radio channel, and more,. Also, i don't know if anythings coming out on Gargoyles or The Gathering, but i hope so.
Anonymous.
Anonymous.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 12:36:13 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Patrick -<In addition, your credibility right now is nearly zero since you have yet to give your name.>
Actually I think he has given his name. The IP adress of Daniel Abraham Raviv. and Anonymous are exactly the same. Chances are they are the same person. Unless they're sharing a school computer.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail]
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 12:31:49 pm EST from 69.54.209.20

"No, gentlemen. You made a big mistake. You got an ex-Green Beret mad..."

*THROAT KICK!*

Chris: I agree that Greg probably doesn't need help. It took ten years to get a comic, and I think I heard Greg say at one of the cons that he has a lot of notebooks from that time period, full of various story ideas.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Your tongues can't repel flavor of that magnitude!" -Admiral Ackbar
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 11:41:47 am EST from 76.27.174.85

Patrick> Not that Disney is above suing a school. They sued Springfield Elementary once in an episode of the Simpsons... although they did then get beaten up by Principal Skinner.
Supermorff
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 10:06:45 am EST from 86.168.27.108

Anonymous > You can spin it any way you want to, but what you're talking about is still too similar to Disney's "Gargoyles" for anyone not to believe that's where you drew inspiration for the idea. You may squeak by using it in a school project (schools are non profit, after all, and not worth suing), but you'd never get the comic book or television industry to touch it with a ten foot pole. In addition, your credibility right now is nearly zero since you have yet to give your name.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 8:51:46 am EST from 173.88.151.62

Chris> And what pray tell did Marina Sirtis say? Because I don't believe she said such a thing, and even if she did, it was probably about the likelihood in her mind of Disney making new episodes. Not anything to do with the story or Greg, both of which she's fond of (Yes, I've met and spoken with her too).

As for whether or not Greg needs help with ideas? What makes you think he does? He's written his scripts well in advance. He doesn't need any help with the story.
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 5:27:26 am EST from 24.205.39.101

We have DVDs. We have a comic series. We have graphic novels coming soon. We have the yearly convention. We have the Hot Topic shirt(s). We have this very website, where people can come in to discuss the show every day.

It's safe to say that 'Gargoyles' is FAR from dead.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 5:18:22 am EST from 69.223.190.54

NO! Gargoyles is not Dead, it can still live, I hope! and Gargoyles is not something unsalvageable. DO YOU HEAR ME, GARGOYLES ROCKS AND IS A MODERN MYTHOLOGY! (Pant) (Pant), I'm sorry, i didn't mean to yell, but i'm so defensive of Gargoyles, I can't help it, I'm a big fan of the series, (Sadly) I'm so sorry! By the way, if it turns out that there is room for one more staff for The Gathering, or a if a position opens up, can i be contacted and informed? I'll work for free!
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot net]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 1:30:53 am EST from 24.7.204.215

No, it's not fan fiction, it's set in a different universe, and more. It's My own series, it's not the Gargoyles Universe, it's My School's Universe, My school has a comic studio, and we create superheroes, monsters and other stuff. I loved Gargoyles alot and seeing them recently come back as well as people missing Gargoyles alot, i decided i want to create my own series of Gargoyles, with my own Characters and Creatures. I was just asking Greg for Advice on how to create, because he's an expert on it, heck if Walt Disney Or Jim Henson were alive today, I'd ask them for advice, but they're not, so i turn to the next best creator, And who's that but Greg, which if he doesn't want to help me that's fine, i was just asking for advice, since he's been in this for a while and I've only been at it for 2 years, I'm A Junior at my school! Also The Name Hogwarts (Or at Least Hog Warts) is not copyrighted by J.K. Rowling, Hogwarts School Of Witchcraft And Wizardry is, but not Hogwarts, so you can still use the name. Look guys don't think of my work as fan fiction, just think of My Gargoyles series connection with Gargoyles as the same kind of Connection between Harry Potter And Lord Of The Rings, they're similar, but not the same. And one thing to prove it, in my series, there is no Oberon's Children, Oberon and Titania are once again King And Queen Of The Fairies, and all mythological beings are separate unless they've been connected in mythology before (Such as with Hades, Poseidon, And Zeus being brothers)! So call me what you want, all i want is a suggestion from someone or something!
Anonymous
Anonymous
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 1:21:53 am EST from 24.7.204.215

Well how many months has it been since a new Gargoyles comic has come out? Maybe the reason Greg has such a bad attitude all the time is because he can't get his series to work. Even Marina Sirtis at a last convention commented about how Gargoyles was unsalvageable.
Greg doesn't weant his fans submitting ideas, maybe he needs the help after all. At this point we might as well go back to claiming Season 3: Goliath Chronicles was canon and that Thailog and the mutates did turn to stone and die.
So...who here thinks Gargoyles is truly dead? Don't get me wrong, I am by know means cheering or trolling but I find it a darn shame.
Chris
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 1:17:16 am EST from 64.12.117.134

Anonymous > Even if its not using the characters Greg has created, you are still using his universe, his ideas. Its still fanfiction. Its like when someone writes original characters that go to Hogwarts; its still fanfiction for JK Rowling's world and ideas. Or when someone writes an original character to Impress a dragon on Pern; its still fanfiction for Anne McCaffery's world and ideas. You see what I mean? Even if its not their characters, it is the basic concept youre using and, therefore, still fanfiction. The idea of a creature turning to stone in the day is not copyrighted to Greg W and Disney but Gargoyles is.

By all means, write fanfiction (unless the creator says, "No fanfiction" which happens and I dont know why people forbid it; I always see it as an expression of admiration for the work)! I write Gargoyles fanfiction and its fun! Share with fellow fans all you want! But Greg wont look at it. He does not want to be swayed by people's ideas or risk reading an idea, using it, and getting sued later on.

And we suspect the Ask A Question section will be open when the final comics are released in book form.

Daniel - Welcome to the Room! Take your coat off and stay a while! ;)
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 12:09:59 am EST from 71.206.9.183

Daniel> Welcome to the room. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 11:59:35 pm EST from 69.223.190.54

Hello, everyone. The Gathering of the Gargoyles has all the staff members we need right now for the Gathering 2009 convention committee. We know there hasn't been an updates in quite a while, but all of that will change very soon. Stay tuned to this forum. A big Gathering 2009 announcement will be coming before Christmas.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 11:48:05 pm EST from 76.205.89.131

Thank You, I've always wanted to work among other fans and crew Of Gargoyles, I've been a big fan of Gargoyles all my life, and I've always watched it whenever i could, I even named one of my pet fish Jon Canmore, in honor of it please send me any information, I'll be glad to serve this And Gargoyles Wiki if you guys would allow me. (Smiles) Thank You. Also yeah, i knew Gargoyles before I knew A Midsummer Night's Dream, in fact i even told my drama teacher, Hey, They're Greg's Characters, What are you doing? She said Huh?
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv.
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 10:34:50 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

No, i was just asking Greg for Advice, if he doesn't want to give me fine, i just wanted to ask you guys if he thought i was writing fan fiction, or did he know i was writing original story, but he still didn't like it? that's all! And it is Gargoyles without him, not his Gargoyles but a separate series.
Anonymous
Anonymous
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 10:25:38 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Anonymous> I dunno. The fact that you want to talk to Greg Weisman about your project makes me think you are getting a bit too close to his idea. If you want to write a gargoyles-related story, go for it, but don't claim it isn't fan-fiction if you are posting here and claiming it'll carry us through until new Gargoyles material comes out. I mean, whats that about? To me if it isn't written by Greg Weisman, it isn't really Gargoyles, and if you care so much about what Greg thinks it makes me think you are trying to get him to endorse your writing, which he won't. Anyway, write your stuff, we won't stop you, what do you want from us really? What do you want from Greg?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
Jesus Loves You... but I'm still his favorite.
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 9:25:55 pm EST from 70.237.193.238

Daniel> Yo man, welcome to the family! Like Asatira said, most of the folks here are pretty friendly so make yourself at home.
Algernon
Remember, Jesus loves you, but everyone else thinks you're a jerk!
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 9:21:03 pm EST from 83.71.97.30

Brook> Nope, no updates yet on Edmund's project. I'm getting impatient, but I know better and gotta wait. It should be fun when we get it.

Daniel> Hi! Welcome to the board. We're a pretty cool group once you get used to us. Just be considerate and everything will be fine. *hands a plate of cookies* Right now, the Gathering website hasn't updated with the '09 info so I can't tell you who is in charge that you could contact. I'd imagine it will be updated soon, so keep an eye on the site (see the link to the left). I'm a bit surprised you didn't know Oberon, Titania, and Puck were in "A Midsummer Night's Dream," but I'm guessing you've been exposed to the series prior to the play.
Asatira
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 8:37:21 pm EST from 68.190.20.172

Anonymous: Please take no offense in this, but whether its fanfiction or not, your idea seems dangerously similar to Disney's Gargoyles and I really wonder if anyone would ever consider it original. And as a result, I doubt Greg, for his own legal protection (rightfully so), could ever be of any "help."
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 7:15:35 pm EST from 68.98.115.219

Hi, Hello, My Name is Daniel Abraham Raviv, I'm new here and I'm kind of nervous, I'm from Chicago and i attended the 2008 Gathering, and maybe will attend the 2009 Gathering. Which I'd like to sign up to be a staff for it, does anyone here work at the Gathering, where can i sign up? Also like Anonymous asked, when will we be able to post questions again? Also i just worked on A Midsummer Night's Dream at my school, and was shocked to see Oberon, Titania, And Puck in it.
Daniel Abraham Raviv. - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 6:13:04 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Does He think i'm writing fan fiction,or does he know I'm writing an original? Also Gargoyles stone by day warriors by night have been in mythology way before Gargoyles, so my series go in the same direction as his but it's still different, he can't sue me and accuse me of ripping off, not to mention you cannot say no one else could do a Gargoyles series because he already did! I mean look, I love Gargoyles and I'd never take something away from Greg,or Disney. But it's time to have another series, not to mention since the comics just got canceled, those who miss Gargoyles could enjoy this new series until Gargoyles comes back,or something. Look Greg if you ever read this I am having an original idea, the only similarities is that they're in the modern time, stone by day warriors by night, and mythological figures in it, but that's all, no Goliath, No Demona, No Xanatos, It's completely original!
Anonymous
Anonymous
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 6:05:51 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

Actually, is there any news/updates on Edmunds project??
Brook
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 4:16:40 pm EST from 84.191.211.165

Anonymous> You're developing a series about "Gargoyles" that includes Puck, Titania and Oberon. Even if it's not fanfiction, it certainly sounds like a rip-off of Greg's series, which may as well be a fanfic.
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 2:24:18 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Anonymous writes...

Hey Greg, are you giong to be in The Gathering Of The Gargoyles in Chicago this year, I'm developing My own Gargoyles series for my school, also with Titania, Oberon, Puck, And Others (But it's not related to this series),I'm not giving you suggestions and i'm not asking for you to hire me, i just want to talk to you, and ask you for some suggestions for my series, and to pay you and Disney money for what I'm doing. Can I Talk to you there? can i meet you and have you help me?
Greg responds...

I will be at the Gathering in Chicago. But...

You can't pay me for what you're suggesting, and I can't take money on Disney's behalf, and I CANNOT/WILL NOT listen to anything like an original idea relating to Gargoyles in ANY way. So I'm not sure HOW I could help you. But I'm happy to talk to you generally about being creative. But some advice: create something ORIGINAL. Don't crib off of a series you don't own.
Does anyone know if Greg thought i was writing a fan fiction, or did he know i was writing an original series with Different Gargoyles?
By the way will we ever be able to write questions to Greg again?
Anonymous
Anonymous
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 2:11:18 pm EST from 24.7.204.215

I think Greg was being funny. Edmund has been used as Greg's alter-ego and he was only implying that the naked woman I spotted is refered to as Edmund's date.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 12:08:26 pm EST from 70.237.193.238

Here's a little something from GargWiki: http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Halloween&diff=prev&oldid=18273

GregW made a comment on the talk page for the article on Halloween. I could be imagining things, but it looks very much as though he referring to a background character as "Edmund's date", which rather suggests to me that there is a character named Edmund in the same scene (in "Eye of the Beholder"). Check it out. What do you guys think?
Supermorff
posted @ Sat, Dec 20, 2008 12:04:25 pm EST from 86.168.27.108

Brook> It's "Tesla" and "Edison," BTW.

And I also agree on the commonality of stories, and I believe that's something to keep in mind when it comes to creativity. It is impossible to come up with a completely original story that cannot be compared in some aspects to other stories before or after (when it's after, things can get silly, especially if people don't realize that story A is the original and they insist that it actually ripped ideas from later story B). In the end, what makes a story unique is the execution of the story. For instance, there are a number of films that use gargoyles as the distinct story element. Two visual media stories I can think of -- a horror movie and an episode of an anthology style series -- that have been mentioned here in the past and compared to "Gargoyles", but we'd all agree that the story telling of one or the other made it stand out more. Ditto for the umpteen takes on Romeo and Juliet-style themes.
Asatira
posted @ Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:30:53 pm EST from 68.190.20.172

DEMONSKRYE - I remember that post about Dean Koonz, too.

It's easy to find similarities with "Gargoyles" in other works, since the series was making use of many familiar legendary elements: living gargoyles, Shakespeare's plays, the Arthurian legend, world mythology, conspiracy theories about secret societies, etc.
Todd Jensen
www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php
posted @ Fri, Dec 19, 2008 7:38:01 pm EST from 4.244.212.149

That goes hand in hand with the idea that every time a big invention is made, somebody else makes the exact same invention, like the TV, telephone and light bulb. Tesslah (is he wirtten like that?) and Eddison for example.

@ Demonskrye: It is the title of the entire record. I'm not saying it is a refference, but it would be a pleasant surprise. :)
For everybody interrested, here is one of their singles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEnDMy28hkE
Pretty rad stuff, if you are into Shoegaze and My Bloody Valentine and all that.
Brook
posted @ Fri, Dec 19, 2008 7:12:47 pm EST from 84.191.243.11

This reminds me of a point that Greg and Marv Wolfman made at the Material Adaptation panel at this year's CONvergence. From my post on it:

Marv had some interesting thoughts on writer originality. He mused that writers can't expect their work to be 100% original. Every writer gets their ideas from the great ether that is the common experience. Two completely different writers could come up with similar ideas at the same time. Their thoughts could have been triggered by reading the same newspaper article or have been completely random. Marv's point was that there are a fixed number of story possibilities and you need to protect your copyrights. Greg agreed with an anecdote about someone who sued Disney in the mid-nineties for copying his Gargoyles idea. It was later proven that this was impossible given the writer's material was unavailable and developed after Gargoyles started production. But Greg learned that all professional content creators don't accept unsolicited writing for this reason.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Fri, Dec 19, 2008 6:11:09 pm EST from 128.101.32.234

Brook> I haven't heard the song, but my best guess is that it's a coincidence. If there was more than the one reference that could be seen as tying into "Gargoyles" it might be possible, if not all that likely. But just the association of healing with dawn doesn't strike me as enough to be counted as a reference. Night is used as a metaphor for a hardship or trial, as in "Making it through the night" and the flipside of that would be viewing day break as salvation or a time of healing. So it's not inconceivable that someone could make a connection between the dawn and healing without knowing anything about "Gargoyles."

On a similar note, I recall someone saying many moons ago that Dean Koontz's "Seize the Night" bore a surprising number of similarities to "Gargoyles," but having never read the book, I can't confirm or deny it.
DemonskryeRobb - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Dec 19, 2008 5:40:17 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

A hahahahahaha...

I'd be interrested in this though. If I'd put out a record, I'd snug a Gargoyles refference in there somehow. So... I dunno, I't be funny if he actually like the show and chose the title in regard of this.
Brook
posted @ Fri, Dec 19, 2008 5:18:07 pm EST from 84.191.243.11

Anyone else reminded of the guy who asked if George Lucas was inspired by Demona when he created Darth Vader?

"Vader has red eyes. Demona has them."
"Vader said 'if you're not with me, then you are my enemy!' and Demona said 'if you are not my ally than you are my enemy!"

Someone was reaching so high, I think we could have used his arm as a flag pole. ;)
Greg Bishansky
"Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all of the…little…emotions. You see, in their…last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way…I knew your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Fri, Dec 19, 2008 4:37:59 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

Patrick - That ELO song was among the tunes I was going to use for the Gathering 1999 2CD set that I put together - but I opted for the Four Tops tune by the same name instead.

Speaking of gargoyles related songs - I still "The Gargoyles Song List" website archived somewhere. It was originally hosted by the West Coast Clan - and when they shut down the site - I hosted it it for a time at the Can Clan site. Anyway, Think it would be good to revive that as part of S8 Gargs? It's simply a list of songs suggested by fans that tie in to themes or characters of the show.
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Dec 19, 2008 2:54:49 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

@ Matt: I thought I'd indicated that I meant that it was NOT a coincidence, ergh, I meant if somebody knows if this is not a coincidence, but an indication. A refference.

The record is from 2005, and reading through their constant themes of alienated teenagers and an unfriendly environment, this would be liekly, yet I'd imagine it would have somehow surfaced if this was a refference.
Brook
posted @ Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:16:47 am EST from 84.191.195.124

E.L.O. recorded a song called "Turn to Stone" in 1977. Were they foreshadowing "Gargoyles" by advanced precognition? :P
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"Stay crunchy, men. Stay crunchy!" - Homer Simpson
posted @ Fri, Dec 19, 2008 6:47:31 am EST from 76.205.89.131

Confirm what?

Confirm that this band exists? Confirm that these song titles are accurate? Confirm that it could be interpreted as a Gargoyles reference?

Sounds like you've already confirmed all of that.

It is almost certainly a coincidence. If it wasn't, I'd imagine we'd know about it already.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Thu, Dec 18, 2008 11:17:18 pm EST from 70.237.193.238

Now this is VERY fanboyish bit I just have to ask this:

There is this record by this really, really rad band called M83 (some might know their song that was in NIGHTWATCH, I don't even try to spell the russian name of it), and their 4th record is called BEFORE THE DAWN HEALS US.

It came out in 2005, and I just now added 2 and 2 together - and this sounds definetely like a GARGOYLES reference. Nowhere since have I heard of people being healed by dawn!!

Could somebody please confirm this??
Brook
posted @ Thu, Dec 18, 2008 5:29:29 pm EST from 84.191.198.72

Kris > I agree with you 100%. My first thought when I saw Greg W ask that question is 'someone's coloring a Gargoyle comic somewhere in the world!' ^_^ Maybe Greg W will be able to give us a possible release date for the trades, or at least an update on where the comics stand at this point in time soon (crosses fingers*
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Dec 18, 2008 10:32:28 am EST from 71.206.9.183

Brook> Sorry about that. *Pats Brook on the shoulder awkwardly*

Big points for open mouth, insert foot here.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Dec 18, 2008 5:32:10 am EST from 69.223.184.26

King Cobra: Yeah, try making up for it!! I told you so, why did you not listen when I said "NO, mentioning S2V2 in the most Gargoyle-nerdisized forum of the world does NOT make Disney release it, but just brings back Johnny!!" *runs away crying*
Brook
posted @ Thu, Dec 18, 2008 5:12:47 am EST from 84.191.230.238

Kris> It wasn't S2V2, it was S2V1. I'd just made typos, and was both too tired and too preoccupied to notice at first. That's normal under those circumstances sometimes.

And, just so we're clear, it's not a bootleg, it's the legit S2V1.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Dec 18, 2008 4:11:19 am EST from 69.223.184.26

I read this week's comments (so far) and saw talk of Season 2 Volume 2, but sounds like it's a bootleg we're talking about...or a foreign release ?

Guess everyone's taking it as a good sign that Greg W. came in to ask a reference question about Hudson's eyes ? Like maybe he needed to let one of the pencilers or colorists know real quick 'cause they're completing the comic (or is it already all done up through #12 and Bad Guys #6 ?) or maybe drawing a cover for the next trade paperback collection ?

I'm out of the loop the last month or two--do we have any news on a sketched out release schedule for Bad Guys and the remainder of the main series ? Any new official merchandise, like that maquette/statue site hinted at, or is that still a long way off ? Last new thing I remember is the second recent official t-shirt, the one from that `80sTshirts.com-type site.
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 18, 2008 3:51:36 am EST from 69.17.187.216

Robby> Sure, that's possible, but what makes you think Demona didn't receive training from Hudson as well. For that matter, I'd wager that many gargoyles of older generations trained the younger warriors including Goliath and Demona. I doubt it was just Hudson.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 11:33:19 pm EST from 70.237.193.238

How possible would it be for Demona's mentor to have been Hudson's mate-given how much we know of her. I mean, Hudson trained Goliath, Demona probably got console and training from Hudson's mate.
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 10:56:18 pm EST from 68.116.180.70

Brook: Really? I love the soundtrack. Listen to it all the time :)
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told-though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 10:31:30 pm EST from 71.239.117.121

Greg B> Great video. (See also Godwin's Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law .) But it's only natural that this would happen. The human capacity for hyperbole is infinite.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 10:23:32 pm EST from 69.112.108.43

Honestly, I never was too big a fan of the Gargoyles score. I always found it way too pompous, and way too indicative. I'm a fan of OST that has a more subconscious feel to it, for example the David Lynch scores by Badalamenti.

I miss the voiceacting though... and the flow here and there. But yeah, we never might have gotten Goliaths stabbing, Angelas "YOU BASTARD!!" and Lex, erhm, excited look whilst alling Amp Amp. ;)
Brook
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:03:49 pm EST from 84.191.206.244

Demonskrye> Don't get me wrong, while I would love another season of the show, with the voices, music and stellar animation, I am in no way putting the comic down. It has its limitations (such as progressing the story at a slower pace, lack of voice actors etc.) but its allowed Greg to go down avenues he couldn't have in the show. For instance it probably would have been next to impossible to pull off Goliath's stabbing during the double date, never mind trying to scene Tasha's suicide. Also certain stories are better told in comic book format, such as the Stone of Destiny arc; Greg has said himself that he would have to rewrite that arc before it could be aired in episode format. I've enjoyed every bit of the comic, and am looking forward to the next installments in the TPBs. We've only been introduced to a small portion of what Greg can offer us with his comic book writing, and I'm really hoping that this isn't all we get.

But as much as I love the comic and where we were going with it, I just prefer the show so much more. As you said yourself, its what got us into the story in the first place. On that note is there anyone here that got into the story through reading the comics, before watching or hearing about the show? If so what did you think when you read the comics? It'd be really interesting to know your thoughts.
Brigadoon Traveller
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 2:59:33 pm EST from 78.148.230.145

Immagine the awesomeness of this conversation:

Greg: Soo, that paperback we did of the second half of the GARGOYLES comic did rather well as you can see here and here. So, I figured, I might come over and ask politely for a renewal of the license?

Disney Exec.: See Greg... we just went into XD, ad try to get the generation internet and 11 ear old buys to come watch our shows, and they seem to be very, uh, disenchanted by our reruns of Bonkers and High School Musial, so, uh, we figured, to, uh, let you do a S3 of GARGOYLES!!

Greg: Oh, shame thet the license is to pric... WHAT??

Disney Exec: You heard right.

Greg: WAIT A MINUTE... are you asking me to... to... do a Gargoyles season 3?? ON TV??

Disney Exec: Greg, did you learn NOTHING when you were working for us?? We did not ask you... we TELL you to!!
Brook
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 2:18:05 pm EST from 84.191.199.7

Brigadoon Traveler> I agree, mostly. I do think that getting the comics back in production is probably our best shot at seeing more "Gargoyles" stories, at least for the foreseeable future. It probably won't surprise anyone to learn that producing a comic book costs far, far less than producing an animated series or probably even an animated special. We know that Dan Vado has a pretty good professional relationship with Greg and that he would like to publish the comic again. We just need to make sure he has the ammo - in the form of good sales on the trades - to go back to Disney and convince them that they should try again.

What I don't agree with - and I'm not sure it was really your intention to imply this anyways - is the idea that the comic can only be a serviceable substitute for another season of the TV show. In the interests of full disclosure, given the choice I would absolutely prefer to see the "Gargoyles" come back as an animated TV show. It's how I got into the story. I do miss the voices and the music and I just love animation to begin with. And I think we'd be likely to get more stories in a given spa of time than we would from the comic. But that doesn't mean the comic can never hope to be anything but a pale imitation, the show minus sound and movement. Animation has its particular strengths, but so do comics and its a real shame that the "Gargoyles" comic ended just as Greg was starting to explore those strengths. I'm not going to try to make a list, but one of the more obvious ones is the freedom to touch on more adult concepts and themes. While it's not a general strength of comics (or a general weakness of animation), in the case of Disney, a licensed comic from a small publisher is going to have much more freedom than a television cartoon. It could be that some day, Disney will decide that the market they need to be chasing is the people watching Cartoon Network's Adult Swim block. But right now, Angela calling Thailog a "bastard" in a Disney cartoon is about as likely as a DVD of "Song of the South" coming out with "Mickey Mouse Goes To Vietnam" as a bonus feature. If we're going to spread the word about the trades, we need to look as the comic not as the best thing we can get right now because a new season of the show is off the table, but a really good comic that continues that "Gargoyles" story.

As for the idea of a third season, I think the first question is going to be whether "Gargoyles" is still going to be on TV when Toon Disney becomes Disney XD. It seems like it would be a no-brainer. Disney is looking to target the young male audience that couldn't care less about "High School Musical" or "Hannah Montana," so why not start with a show they already own which had a primary target audience that's pretty much the same as Disney's desired audience for Disney XD? (Yes, I know the "Gargoyles" fandom is not limited to any particular gender or age, but the stated target was a young male audience, with the understanding that ideally, it would appeal to everyone.) But Disney may not be thinking that way. They may see "Gargoyles" as too old, too dated. or too uninteresting for today's kids - assuming that they see it at all. The programming I've read about for Disney XD is largely either new programming created specifically for the new channel, or acquired programing - imported anime or shows purchased from other networks like "Spectacular Spider-Man." If Disney does put "Gargoyles" on the XD lineup in a slot other than late at night when few people are watching anyway and it will at least get a few more viewers than test patterns, it could be a terrific opportunity to get the show back in the public eye and really grow the fanbase. If they dump "Gargoyles" after the switch to Disney XD, we may want to consider contacting Disney and reminding them that they have an action-adventure show which they own which would be perfect for their new channel. It may not work and even if the show does get back on the air at a watchable hour, it's certainly no guarantee that we'll see a third season. But keeping the show on the air and making sure the trades sell well is where we have to start.
DemonskryeRobb - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 1:27:21 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Ok Im sorry for the reference. I truly apologize. I didnt think.
Monkey - [johnr783 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 1:13:11 pm EST from 69.155.116.210

Brook> "I think now, more than ever, is the time to try to push a possible 3rd season for GARGOYLES - sure, it would be costy: a series in the mid 90s, 10 years after it got cancelled and with a more and more adult storyline and character development.

But if not now then never."

I can't agree more, a season 3 (a proper one) would be awesome. A couple of months ago I was watching "The Edge" (one of my favourite episodes - great story, animation, VA) and I realised how much we missed out on by not getting a proper third season. One of the things I missed the most when reading the comics was the audio aspect to the show - not just the voice acting, but also the musical score. Imagine all the wealth of info we have here at AskGreg and the GargWiki being translated into seasons of episodes - makes you really wonder what could have been.

But honestly I think our main focus should be the comics (for now at least). Our main chance at getting a renewal of any sort would be in the sales of the upcoming TPBS. If sales for these are great, then this gives Greg more ammo to convince, not only SLG but also Disney of the idea of pursuing graphic novels. Give it a couple of years of these graphic novels selling well, then Disney may possibly (I want to highlight the words MAY POSSIBLY - nothing is ever written in stone), possibly look at pursuing more seasons.

Conversely if the sales are bad, mediocre or even good but not good enough, then my IMHO we are looking at no Gargoyles stories in any shape or form (at least for the near future). It's not even a given that we will get any graphic novels; it is a possibility dependent upon sales of current TPBs (CB vol 1, CB vol 2 & BG).

Spreading the word over the next couple of months (prior and concurrent to the release of the TPBs) is important in making people aware of these books. Complacency in this regard could cost us any chance of having a full third season.
Brigadoon Traveller
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 12:42:13 pm EST from 78.150.202.145

Brook> "I think now, more than ever, is the time to try to push a possible 3rd season for GARGOYLES - sure, it would be costy: a series in the mid 90s, 10 years after it got cancelled and with a more and more adult storyline and character development.

But if not now then never."

I can't agree more, a season 3 (a proper one) would be awesome. A couple of months ago I was watching "The Edge" (one of my favourite episodes - great story, animation, VA) and I realised how much we missed out on by not getting a proper third season. One of the things I missed the most when reading the comics was the audio aspect to the show - not just the voice acting, but also the musical score. Imagine all the wealth of info we have here at AskGreg and the GargWiki being translated into seasons of episodes - makes you really wonder what could have been.

But honestly I think our main focus should be the comics (for now at least). Our main chance at getting a renewal of any sort would be in the sales of the upcoming TPBS. If sales for these are great, then this gives Greg more ammo to convince, not only SLG but also Disney of the idea of pursuing graphic novels. Give it a couple of years of these graphic novels selling well, then Disney may possibly (I want to highlight the words MAY POSSIBLY - nothing is ever written in stone), possibly look at pursuing more seasons.

Conversely if the sales are bad, mediocre or even good but not good enough, then my IMHO we are looking at no Gargoyles stories in any shape or form (at least for the near future). It's not even a given that we will get any graphic novels; it is a possibility dependent upon sales of current TPBs (CB vol 1, CB vol 2 & BG).

Spreading the word over the next couple of months (prior to and concurrent to the release of the TPBs) is important in making people aware of these books. Complacency in this regard could cost us any chance of having a full third season.
Brigadoon Traveller
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 12:25:43 pm EST from 78.144.220.95

Brook> I agree about season 3. Yes, it would be pleasant to have had it on TV, but the comics are/were just as good.

Let's just hold out hope that we get more stories from Greg W. someday. In some medium.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 12:00:43 pm EST from 69.223.188.165

Oh, and Monkey, for future reference. Watch this and learn something:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=114018&title=A-Relatively-Closer-Look---Hitler-Reference
Greg Bishansky
"There are humans for whom the words 'never again' carry special meaning." - G'Kar
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 11:50:42 am EST from 24.205.39.101

Monkey> <<Of course BMFM wasn't owned by a company that is the animated equivilent of the...Third Reich?>>

As someone who is half-Jewish, who no longer has family in eastern Europe for reasons that I hope become obvious...

Comparing Disney to the Third Reich? Seriously? I am asking on behalf of everyone that had family murdered by Hitler (and on behalf of decent human beings everywhere) for you to recant what you have just said and apologize.

Do you have any idea what the power of those two words REALLY means to most people?
Greg Bishansky
"There are humans for whom the words 'never again' carry special meaning." - G'Kar
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 11:48:06 am EST from 24.205.39.101

Sorry for the double post...

I wanted to read up on a question I asked about the episode "Long way to Morning," ...

where should I look in the archives? Under what link? Hudson? I really don't know.
Battle beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 11:03:41 am EST from 75.152.233.226

If you freeze SIREN's video on time index 1:19.00, you clearly see (albeit in green) Hudson's RIGHT eye glow brighter than his left eye. Interesting. couple second frames, but VERY NICE attention to detail!
Battle beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 10:53:50 am EST from 75.152.233.226

OK, they brought back Biker Mice From Mars. When I was growing up I thought the idea for that show was so dumb I didnt even watch it. Now if a show like that can be brought back, I can hope against all hopes that Gargoyles will be brought back.

Of course BMFM wasn't owned by a company that is the animated equivilent of the...Third Reich? Oi. I couldnt think of a really good comparason. So ends my post on a flat note :|
Monkey - [johnr783 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 10:29:30 am EST from 69.155.116.210

I think now, more than ever, is the time to try to push a possible 3rd season for GARGOYLES - sure, it would be costy: a series in the mid 90s, 10 years after it got cancelled and with a more and more adult storyline and character development.

But if not now then never.

On the other hand, I'm happy with the comics we got and would rather cross my fingers for the next issues to be approved in 09 than force a new Season 3...
Brook
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 9:41:42 am EST from 84.191.250.60

Brook> God, I hope not.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 9:18:10 am EST from 69.223.188.165

Disney XD> It's not so much that the name "Toon Disney" is any less inherently appealing to boys than "Disney XD." It's that Disney is looking to revamp and rebrand the channel and one of the easy ways to signify that is to give the channel a new name. It reflecta that the channel's focus has moved away from all cartoons all the time.
DemonskryeRobb - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:52:34 am EST from 146.115.115.33

@ Anonymous: I just wanted to say the exact same thing. ;)

@ King Cobra: You gotta be KIDDIN me... :C I just thought... oh nver mind, heeeeeeeeeeeeere comes Johnny... :(
Brook
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:46:52 am EST from 84.191.250.60

@ XD> Wikipedia has the following to say: An emoticon commonly used on the internet to express happiness, self-depreciation, laughter, bewilderment, or sarcasm. (Tilted 90 degrees clockwise, X indicates squeezed eyes and D an open laughing mouth.)
(For once I concur with their definition, therefore, I'm doing a lazy copy and paste.)

With such a name, I wouldn't take the channel serious at all.
Anonymous
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:52:24 am EST from 89.246.195.106

Greg B.> Yeah, that's what I meant.

I'd just woken up and hadn't noticed the typo(s). Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 4:52:19 am EST from 69.223.188.165

King Cobra> Season Two Volume 2? Are you sure you don't mean Volume 1?
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 4:22:10 am EST from 24.205.39.101

Extra S2V2> At this point, I'm either going to give it (or sell it, hadn't completely decided on that yet) to the first interested person at the next Gathering, or have it put in the con auction.

Of course, both of these are depending on whether or not I'll be able to afford the travel, (economy woes) which currently remains to be seen.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 3:59:10 am EST from 69.223.188.165

"January, 2009" refers to when Jonah says this. Not to when the show will air.
Greg Weisman
"Get those sporks out of my son!" -- J. Jonah Jameson, (January, 2009)
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 3:45:22 am EST from 68.183.95.134

Greg : *January* 2009? I thought the news article said it would be airing in March. Great news if it was wrong!

Speaking of that article, the writer said that Toon Disney is changing it's name "in an effort to capture the male market". Does this make any sense to anyone else? How on earth is "Disney XD" more "manly" than Toon Disney? (For that matter, anyone know what XD is supposed to stand for?)
Spen
"Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 3:42:28 am EST from 66.43.205.110

Thanks, gang. I think I like it better if the glow is yellow, but obviously both ways are equally right (or equally wrong). Flawed production, and all that. (As for the left/right thing, that was my dyslexia rearing it's ugly head again. I knew which eye, but mislabeled.)
Greg Weisman
"Get those sporks out of my son!" -- J. Jonah Jameson, (January, 2009)
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 2:16:25 am EST from 68.183.95.134

It's kind of cruddy-looking, but here's a shot from Long Way to Morning where Hudson's eyes glow white, for comparison (10 seconds in):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3913432041658021150&hl=en
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Wed, Dec 17, 2008 1:10:26 am EST from 216.250.163.157

Same with Talon's eyes- his eyes glowed both white and yellow. Of course, design consistency on the mutates are not one of the show's stronger points ;)

Most of the time both of Hudson's eyes glow white. I can only think of one instance when the left eye was a different color.
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 10:55:19 pm EST from 64.148.56.178

Yeah, after viewing some more clips, I have to agree with Siren. Sometimes they both glow white and sometimes the scarred one glows yellowish. So, Greg, I guess it is your call which way you want to go with that.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 10:42:35 pm EST from 70.237.193.238

Greg : I'm 99% certain that they both glow white.
Spen
"Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 10:36:48 pm EST from 66.43.205.110

Well...let's put it this way....depends on who was in the ink department that day. Because watching clips, sometimes they both glow white and sometimes his scared eye glows yellow. *shrugs*
Siren
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 10:34:45 pm EST from 72.188.139.212

His scared eye glows yellow

Video reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdimOqrLdw0
Siren
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 10:32:18 pm EST from 72.188.139.212

Greg W> According to "The Price" at least, both of Hudson's eyes glow the same when he is angry. And it is his left eye that is wounded.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 10:29:57 pm EST from 70.237.193.238

Quick question in need of a fast (but accurate) answer...

When Hudson's eyes glow, do they both glow white or is the right eye still discolored? (I can't remember. But please, NO opinions in response. Only answer if you really remember with certainty and/or have checked a canon episode.) Thanks in advance...
Greg Weisman
"Scram, kid!" --J. Jonah Jameson
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 9:56:16 pm EST from 64.14.248.62

Damn...sorry for the double post :(
Thank you Demonskrye! And yes, I am a long time member. I have been here since Gargoyles first aired. I am no spambot.
Siren
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 9:30:00 pm EST from 72.188.139.212

Robby, I am far from a spammer. I don't post here as much as I use to. Most of the time, I post when I find something Gargoyles fans may be interested in. A new Gargoyles t-shirt, a new Gargoyles fan made video, or a costume link to help people get a costume together for the next Gathering. If you think that is spamming, then I don't think you understand the meaning of the word.

Just because someone pops into the middle of a running conversation and gives out a tidbit of info doesn't make my post spam or less than anyone else's here. I lurk and read and post when I have something to add that is more than "I agree/disagree."

Perhaps I should have added this to my post...
Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with BeastCub.com. I receive no gifts or discounts for spreading the info about the costume maker.
Siren
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 9:26:47 pm EST from 72.188.139.212

Rebel: Now just a minute.

I've never called Law on his or her atrocious grammar. I'm merely misinterpreting them on purpose, for my own amusement.

Just so we're clear on that. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Do you wanna know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all the... little... emotions. In... you see, in their last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way, I know your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 9:14:36 pm EST from 76.27.174.85

Robby> There aren't any official rules on the matter so far as I know, but I don't think there's anything wrong with a longtime comment room contributor promoting some product or service on a limited basis, especially if it's one that would be of particular interest to "Gargoyles" fans. I know I've mentioned my friend's comic books here on rare occasion, even though they don't relate to "Gargoyles" at all. I think the problem is more when you have a spambot or person who uses the comment room exclusively to promote or service or product, or someone who is doing it excessively.
DemonskryeRobb - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 5:11:44 pm EST from 146.115.115.33

Memorandum> The problem facing an organism that would potentially infect a gargoyle is this: how would it survive the cells it was inhabiting going into stone sleep (and the recovery during said period)? This would have to be done to have any hope of a persistent effect on the gargoyle in question unless it acted so quickly that it would kill in a single night... Which is more a property of a poison/venom than a disease, which depends upon hosts for its own survival, and is at its own evolutionary dead end if it kills every host organism it infects.

This is a load of speculation, but the only way I can see that happening is if the disease picks up the correct sequence of gargoyle DNA and goes into stone sleep with its host. This would leave the organism(s) dormant, and *might* convince the host cells that the disease was part of the body and therefore not see it as something that needs to be removed therefrom. This DNA sequence would also need to be kept in every subsequent generation of the disease organism regardless of other mutations, or it would be flagged by the immune system and slated for removal during the following day.

It seems possible, but unlikely that such an unbroken chain of events would occur, but I wouldn't totally rule it out.

As for "hereditary ailments," it kinda depends on what you mean by that. Are you talking about physical deformities, mental disorders, allergies/intolerances, things like a weak heart or faulty immune system, all/none of the above?
Kerry (Kth) Boyd
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 4:43:16 pm EST from 71.56.36.35

Um, spamming isn't allowed, is it?
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 4:41:37 pm EST from 68.116.180.70

For those looking for a good costume maker, I found one for anyone looking for a fuzzy gargoyle. Such as Una, Griff, and Leo. She also makes quad-suits. 4-legged suits that give you stilts on your arms so you can run on all fours for a gargoyle beast. She does some amazing work and I am currently talking to her about a commission for a gargoyle beast of my own creation. Click my name or here: http://www.beastcub.com/

Be prepared to pay top dollar though. Costumes can run $1000-$2000+ Mine is going to be over $2200, but I am planning to use it more than just 2-3 times a year. I now work at a wildlife refuge for former animal actors and confiscated exotic pets, working with tigers, lions, leopards, wolves, etc. I plan to use my costume for events to help raise money for the refuge. :)
Siren
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 4:29:20 pm EST from 72.188.139.212

Supermorff> Good point. I think stone sleep (not to mention other strong points of Gargoyle physiology) would reduce the mortality rate of Gargoyles compared to say humans or even other more predatory animals such as a tiger.

Gargoyles wouldn't die from infection of a wound I assume. Though bloodloss from an injury earlier at night would do the trick.

In regards to illness, there must be some things that affect Gargoyles either say a hereditary ailment or a virus. If Gargoyles are attuned to nature, I can only assume that nature would attune something (nasty) to them!

Certainly they have a chance for slow population growth or maintenance, but I think the population would be much less resilient to hard times than other species.
Memorandum
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 2:50:12 pm EST from 207.236.147.118

Gargoyle reproduction> Matt and Demonskrye, I pretty much agree with everything you said about this, so I'm not going to add anything. However, Matt, your second point got me thinking: I've always wondered why eggs need to be turned (assuming they really do, and this wasn't Katharine just trying to cover her sneakiness). What if they need to be turned so that they absorb thermal energy equally across the egg, rather than in one place all the time? I'm not sure that would necessarily make the eggs crack, but it probably wouldn't be healthy for the foetus.

Memorandum> I think illness and accidental injuries are probably less common than you think, considering stone sleep is such a pwerful restorative.
Supermorff
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 2:26:20 pm EST from 86.168.27.108

Forget S2V2, I want Season 1 on Blu-ray. :)
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 2:26:00 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

KingCobra > Give the extra copy to someone who enjoyed the Gargoyles series back when it was on, but hasn't kept up with the comics and could potentially be (gently) nudged into buying them. Giving them the DVD to remind them of how good the show was would be a great starting point.

Or just keep the new copy stored away as a back-up, and watch the heck out of the other one and not have to worry about scratching it since you have a back-up copy.

In regards to Law > All of you who keep pointing out his/her bad grammar have made your point perfectly clear, I assure you. Just leave him/her alone. If you can't understand his/her posts, or just don't want to exert the effort to decipher them, then just don't answer them. There is no need to continually point out the bad grammar and spelling. You have all gone beyond beating a dead horse. Now you are beating a wet and bloody horse skeleton into the floor boards. There is no need to be repetitive and patronizing.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 2:24:21 pm EST from 66.218.211.93

KC: I'm sure there are many fans in this CR that would kill for a copy of the S2:V2 DVD ;P
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 2:14:14 pm EST from 70.162.223.238

DVDs> One of my friends gave me Season 2, Volume 2 when I already had a copy to begin with.

So, now, I have 2 copies, with no idea of what to do with the 2nd copy.

Any ideas?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 1:40:45 pm EST from 69.223.188.165

Hello! I've been lurking and thought I'd pop in because this is a topic that interests me.

I've always had a problem with the lengthy Gargoyles' reproductive cycle. While I understand that they would want to keep their population low because of resource competition, I think the cycles as described by Greg would lead to Gargoyle extinction quite quickly.

Three POTENTIAL offspring maximum is not really enough to sustain a population when you factor in death rates. Sure gargoyles may not have many predators but you're still going to get deaths from other factors from illness to tripping and cracking your head open. Not to mention factors that might influence egg/production development such as famine, general infertility, eggs which were not fertilized etc.

I'm not sure, it's an interesting question though.

Nice to meet everyone!
Memorandum
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 1:29:04 pm EST from 207.236.147.118

RE: Stone Sleep

I'm not an evolutionary biologist or anything, but I've often suspected that stone sleep may have evolved partialy as somekind of camouflage. I imagine most would be predators stumbling on a garg during the day would just assume it to be a funny looking rock rather then something potentialy edible.
Algernon
Remember, Jesus loves you, but everyone else thinks you're a jerk!
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 1:11:45 pm EST from 149.157.1.180

Demonskrye> You teach English good. :)
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 12:54:26 pm EST from 159.240.11.254

Law> I'm only going to do this once. After that, if you're still not getting it and I can't understand you, so be it.

"sweet" - This appears to be a separate exclamation unrelated to the following sentence. The first letter should be capitalized and the word should end with an exclamation point, making it clear that this is a separate thought from what comes after it. So instead of "sweet," type "Sweet!" I must admit I'm also rather confused about what you think is "sweet" since there's no context for it. The second sentence appears to be a totally unrelated thought, so I have no way of knowing. My best guess is that you're reacting to Spen's comment about how Macbeth's GargWiki page has been viewed many times. If this it what you mean, it would be clearer to type "Spen> Sweet!" Spen's name followed by the ">" greater-than sign indicates that you are replying to what Spen said. Or you could just type "Sweet! Thanks Spen!"

what - This is the start of a new sentence, so we capitalize the first letter: "What"

happen - Wrong tense. You could use either the past "What happened" or the present "What happens" in this case.

two - "Two" means the number 2. Use "to" for sentences like "Goliath rushed to the castle" or "Many strange things will happen to Brooklyn."

maggie - This is a proper name so we capitalize it: "Maggie"

book. - Since your sentence in a question rather than a statement, it should end with a question mark: "book?"

you - Another new sentence, so another capital letter: "You"

for other - It would be more correct as "for the other".

voulme - This is probably just a typo, but it should be "volume".

out - It's the end of a statement, so we use a period: "out."

What you have is sort of unclear and hard to read:

"sweet what happen two maggie in the comic book. you guys need to buy season 2 for other voulme to come out"

This would be easier to understand:

"Sweet! What happens to Maggie in the comic book? You guys need to buy season 2 for the other volume to come out."

It's still a little awkward, since you have three sentence which don't related to each other at all. You might want to consider giving them a bit more context, so it feels more conversational and less like you're suddenly jumping from topic to topic:

"Sweet! Thanks for letting me know, Spen!

"I was just wondering, what happens to Maggie in the comic book?

"Also, you guys need to buy season 2 for the other volume to come out."

In answer to your questions, I would suggest you read the comic to find out what happens to Maggie. She's shows up in some of the issues in the first half of "Clan Building," which you can buy as a trade paperback right now. And she's in issue #7, which you can either track down at your local comic shop or read as part of the second "Clan Building" trade, which will hopefully come out next month.

You're preaching to the choir. I doubt anyone here is unaware that part one of the Season Two DVD needs to sell more copies in order for part two to be released. I'd be rather surprised if anyone who frequents this room doesn't already own all of the DVDs that have been released so far. What you can do is buy the DVDs yourself if you haven't already, give them to friends and family as gifts, and let people who might not be aware of the DVDs know that they're out there and worth buying.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 11:44:01 am EST from 146.115.115.33

sweet what happen two maggie in the comic book. you guys need to buy season 2 for other voulme to come out
lawand82 - [lawandorder82 at yahoo dot com]
law
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 8:18:56 am EST from 67.174.34.128

Matt> I'd imagine it's a mix of a couple of factors. I like all the ones you mentioned, and i think earth rhythms play a big role. Looking at "Timedancer" for a minute, my personal theory is that Nashville hatches in 1978 because he HAS to hatch in a hatching year. Greg W has said that - much like the skiffs of Avalon - the Phoenix Gate's path through time does have some kind of purpose and I believe that the purpose of the 1978 stop is Nashville's hatching. Maybe there's just some particular "rhythm" in hatching years which the baby gargoyles are attuned to that tells them its time to hatch. Has Greg ever said anything about whether Nashville and Tachi are conceived during stops in actual mating years and their eggs are laid during egg-laying years?

I do think that the success of the species prior to the Iron Age also had a effect on the gargoyle species' relatively slow rate of reproduction. It's true that evolution does not have foresight, but we do know that some animals have evolved to have many offspring at once while others produce only one baby at a time, sometimes with a rather long wait before having another. Before humans learned to shatter stone, I imagine that the gargoyle death rate due to attack by another species was fairly small. They were strong warriors by night and nearly invincible by day, barring any creatures banding together and having the combined strength to shove the sleeping gargoyle off a cliff. That combined with the gargoyle's natural tendency to stick to one geographical location may have led to gargoyes or earlier gargates with the genetic code for laying just one egg at a time with a long child rearing period before laying another fared better than gargoyles who laid more eggs and ended up with more population than their territory could handle. Keep in mind we know very little about early gargoyles and their ancestors and how their culture evolved. I doubt the entire race was born saintly, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of clans that grew too big for their territories turning on one another and fighting - possibly even to the death - to determine who would control the needed resources, meaning that the single-egg gargates would have a much better shot at surviving to pass on their genes multiple times than their counterparts who laid more eggs.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 8:03:05 am EST from 146.115.115.33

Robby> Just a correction. Both gargoyles and beasts lay eggs that take 10 years to hatch. And both species are on the same 20 year breeding cycle. So, for instance, in 1998 gargoyle and beast eggs will hatch. In 2008, gargoyles and beasts will lay their eggs. In 2018, those gargoyle and beast eggs will hatch and so on.

As for the why in the long incubation times, I've wondered that a bit myself and as such have formulated a couple theories:

1. Gargates evolved this slow reproduction because for a time they were so successful that to breed fast would risk overwhelming a clan's natural resources, namely food. I like this hypothesis the least because it implies gargate evolution having foresight, which isn't possible in evolution, and it also is not very likely that gargates would even evolve a strategy that would hinder reproduction, which is the main tenant of life.

2. Gargates have such slow reproduction because much of their energy needs comes from thermal energy (or so says Greg). While a daily dose from the Sun is sufficient for adult gargates, the embryos, covered in their shells and buried in the rookery (which is neccesary for their own protection from predators and perhaps even over-heating) don't absord nearly as much thermal energy. The eggs might not contain much yolk and so development is neccesarily slow.

3. My favorite theory, and the one I think is most likely is that gargate reproduction isn't slow, but simply has to do with the Earth's rhytyms. Gargates are incredibly attuned to the daily and yearly cycles and both their stone sleep and their reproduction is greatly tied to these cycles (the evolutionary benefit to which is a whole other issue). Gargates, therefore, are not breeding slow, but as fast as the Earth allows them. The Earth's cycles may have even changed over time, thus when gargates first evolved they may have bred much more often and quickly, perhaps even yearly. Afterall, the length of day has gradually lengthened over the past several billion years, perhaps that and/or other factors has slowed down other cycles on Earth as well. This theory also explains why all gargates of whatever species, location, etc. are on the exact same schedule. If it was all about thermal energy, then presumably gargate eggs in warmer climates (or at least warmer rookeries) would hatch sooner. But around the world, all gargates are conceived, lain and hatched at nearly the exact same time. So, in short, the relatively long breeding times are because the Earth has relatively long cycles and the gargates can't do much about it because they are so attuned to these cycles.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 6:40:17 am EST from 70.237.193.238

Law : He's not very far off from it. When I checked two minutes ago, Macbeth's page had been viewed 5,075 times.
Spen
"Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 5:30:29 am EST from 66.43.205.110

oh wow macbeth not on that list dang i must make macbeth be on this list
lawand82 - [lawandorder82 at yahoo dot com]
law
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 4:42:17 am EST from 67.174.34.128

Just for the fun of it, the Top Twenty most popular pages on the GargWiki. This always interests me.

1. Main Page (79,447 views)
2. Timeline (24,876 views)
3. Demona (11,088 views)
4. Gargoyle (10,448 views)
5. Goliath (9,815 views)
6. Episode Guide (8,923 views)
7. Elisa Maza (8,592 views)
8. Brooklyn (8,410 views)
9. Angela (7,788 views)
10. Coldstone (7,482 views)
11. Rock and Roll (7,372 views)
12. David Xanatos (7,180 views)
13. The Rock (7,155 views)
14. Thailog (6,975 views)
15. Delilah (6,878 views)
16. Reunion (6,442 views)
17. Lexington (6,369 views)
18. Rock of Ages (5,825 views)
19. Bash (5,732 views)
20. Katana (5,176 views)

The Main Page being #1 doesn't surprise me. Neither does the Timeline being #2, I think it became a real gem on the Wiki (very all encompassing). Demona as #3 doesn't surprise me either, it's been my observation that she is the most popular character in the series.

Coldstone, Delilah and Katana being that high do surprise me. Katana especially, as she's a character who has yet to appear.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 2:08:41 am EST from 24.205.39.101

Well, *dramatically*, the gargoyles' slow population growth (not just long gestation periods, but infrequency of breeding during a lifetime) makes for an interesting dynamic...gargoyles are few, and their position is precarious, and they live long, slow lives while humans boom and swarm and thrive all around them. They were fine when they were the dominant race on the planet, but now they can't keep up. The slow breeding cycle also contributes to the unique nature of gargoyle culture; while turning to stone is a great defensive advantage (or was, again before tool-wielding humans came on the scene), practically a gargoyle clan almost always has a vulnerable rookery to protect, which defines their cooperative social structure, rootedness to one place, and deeply ingrained protective instinct.

Is there a biological reason? In a work of fiction, biology serves the needs of drama. And here it definitely does.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 12:29:01 am EST from 69.112.108.43

God? Evolution? Pick your poison.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 12:27:35 am EST from 24.205.39.101

Did he give a reason though? Is there an answer?
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 12:21:22 am EST from 68.116.180.70

Robby> Because Greg said so, that's why. ;)
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 12:18:33 am EST from 24.205.39.101

I mean that gestation period seems rather...incredible. I doubt even the largest dinosaurs had to wait that long for hatchlings.
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 12:18:12 am EST from 68.116.180.70

Why does it take 20 years for Gargoyle Eggs to hatch and 10 years for Gargoyle Beasts to hatch?
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Tue, Dec 16, 2008 12:06:16 am EST from 68.116.180.70

Thailog may have a temper, but he might just be very good at reigning it in. Or perhaps, we've just never seen him lose it. Not to say it won't happen any time soon. But, if he mentioned one to himself with no witnesses, it probably exists.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:35:09 pm EST from 24.205.39.101

I really don't think he has a temper. He can be dramatic, but I really can't see Thailog exploding into a rage. Losing his cool, getting to a white hot rage, but somehow I doubt he'd really let it out. He's comes off as so collected and together, he would only let a little show. I swear, even when Goliath and crew broke up his plan to off Demona and Macbeth, he took it all in stride and managed to salvage the pieces.
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:24:43 pm EST from 68.190.20.172

In an attempt to start a conversation...

Something going on in the GargWiki got me thinking about this. In Double Jeopardy, when Goliath is roaring Thailog remarks, "Now I know where I got the temper." But one has to wonder if Thailog really does have a temper. Like Xanatos he seems much more calm and collected. I'm not convinced we've ever really seen him lose his temper. Get angry maybe. Or riled up in the heat of battle. But really lost it? I dunno. I wonder if this is one more way he is the anti-Goliath, which makes his statement all the more interesting since it seems the only thing he got from Goliath was his genome.

Thoughts?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:13:30 pm EST from 70.237.193.238

Asatira> No kidding.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:18:53 pm EST from 69.223.188.165

Oh, man. Talk about a slow day...
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:08:20 pm EST from 68.190.20.172

And away we go on with the show!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail]
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 12:50:27 pm EST from 69.54.209.23

Tenth! cuz nobody said it yet.
Algernon
Remember, Jesus loves you, but everyone else thinks you're a jerk!
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:49:05 am EST from 149.157.1.184

And, btw, don't believe what that page says about filk not being a misspelling of folk. That's exactly where the term filk comes from, someone misspelled folk in an essay back in the 1950s, so the term predates Star Trek, too.
Anonymous
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 9:24:44 am EST from 89.246.196.11

@Algernon from last week with the grammar rant links:

Does that page have page about proper formatting, too?
Because as it stands, the paragraphs are too long for reading on a screen, the serif font isn't very good for that either and the color scheme is migraine inducing.
Anonymous
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 9:19:14 am EST from 89.246.196.11

Might also be Demona, I'm not that sure just yet.
Anonymous
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 9:14:34 am EST from 84.191.210.220

Anonymous: I have to agree with you on this one... Or, law is simply Jonny Modlin who's decided to torture us all with his bad grammar...
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"The story is told-though who can say if it be true..."~Shari
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:13:13 am EST from 71.239.117.121

AGAIN:

Law = Greg W having a good time. ;)

NOT

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??

;) ;)
Anonymous
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:49:45 am EST from 84.191.210.220

Robby> Well, Goliath himself would disagree with you. He didn't defeat him, the place was burning down and they both escaped.

The show itself disagrees with you on this point. Sorry.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 2:34:50 am EST from 24.205.39.101

The episode when Macbeth had captured Brooklyn, Lexington, and Bronx. Goliath managed to defeat him in battle.
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 1:57:20 am EST from 68.116.180.70

Ninth! Quick tonight.
Spen
"Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 1:56:36 am EST from 66.43.205.110

8th
vicky82
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 1:44:22 am EST from 194.129.65.74

7th - haven't done this in a while
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 1:31:14 am EST from 98.20.204.91

Robby> When did Goliath defeat Macbeth?

"Demona and Macbeth are two of the greatest warriors of all time, you have to face it Goliath, you've never actually beaten either of them."
"Aye, only foiled their plans or fought them to a draw."
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 1:17:39 am EST from 24.205.39.101

Fifth.

I'm afraid that Goliath's slightly better than Macbeth, Law. He was able to defeat him, after all.
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 1:12:02 am EST from 68.116.180.70

4th macbeth owns all
lawand82 - [lawandorder82 at yahoo dot com]
law
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 12:52:57 am EST from 67.174.34.128

Third!
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 12:43:41 am EST from 70.162.223.238

Second~! Almost had first! (>T.T)>
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)> Hungry...
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 12:01:14 am EST from 72.220.142.80

My first 1st!
Charisma82
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
posted @ Mon, Dec 15, 2008 12:00:31 am EST from 64.13.117.74