I was just watching the Gathering part 2 and relized something.How could Puck/Owen make the iron clan to battle Oberon if Oberons children are vunerable to iron?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 11:49:56 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

I was watching my 2nd to last recorded episode of Gargoyles, then I watched my last recorded one. It skipped from "High Noon", all the way to "Eye of The Storm".Which is like 22 episodes missed.Whats with that? Should'nt they go in order?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 11:01:32 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

I'm not new to Gargoyles. I'm rewatching the series, starting with Awakenings, to get an idea of what was going on. I've also picked up that Elisa is afraid of heights judging by that look on her face after Goliath thrust her onto his back and started climbing.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 10:50:51 pm EDT from 32.176.177.43

Othello: IF there are other 3rd Race spells in the Grimmorum, it's yet to be revealed (and not likely anytime soon, as the book is destroyed). My previous point was that the Avalon spell signified that there probably were a couple 3rd Race spells in there, but that's just reasonable speculation d:
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 10:45:45 pm EDT from 157.242.220.247

Phoenician>Besides the spell to Avalon and the Summon Puck spell,what other 3rd race spells are their from the Grimorum?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 10:35:53 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

Landon > Hm. That is something interesting/weird. I have no idea what that may mean, if anything, for Gargoyles. Maybe something you want to ask Greg W tomorrow when we can start asking questions again.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 10:11:17 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Gargoyleslady< i would say its not as much curiosity about one another, but that they started to built trust ones Goliath saved her life and she his. In the Awakening alone I believes they save each other's life twice.
Irina
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 9:49:33 pm EDT from 69.22.218.127

I know this probably is'nt possible but, If everything was was alright and did'nt need protecting.What would the Gargoyles live for, or what would they do with their time?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 9:18:40 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

Here's a screenshot of the ad for proof: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~thom1576/wonderland-ad.jpg

With Disney now printing SLG stuff and practically claiming it as their own, I wonder if they've entered a different profit-sharing deal now that the Disney license has expired. Theoretically, both Wonderland and Gargoyles have the same 'expensive Disney license' that crippled SLG's profitability, but Gargoyles has always been the #1 seller. Why is it getting the shaft by Disney now?
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 7:00:33 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

This is weird: http://disneybooks.disney.go.com/books/142310451x.html

Disney books is selling SLG's Wonderland hard cover. They mention SLG in the description but list the publisher as 'Disney Press'. I also see SLG's Haunted Mansion at the Disney Books site (with no mention of SLG), but I see no sign of Tron or Gargoyles. I know the Wonderland hardcover came out this month, but I don't know how long Haunted Mansion has been on sale at a Disney site.

But the real news is that I learned about this from an ad on Newsarama. That's a big deal. Newsarama is a very influential site and someone at Disney must think Wonderland can sell. I think it's notable that Disney has never advertised the DVDs but now they're paying to print and advertise a sister publication of Gargoyles' from SLG. Gargoyles is so close, yet so far to being on Disney's radar again...
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 6:49:08 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

I'm having trouble following Awakenings part one and two but I picked up a bit of the Goliath and Elisa angle. I determined it was curiosity about one another that started to bring them together.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 4:25:40 pm EDT from 32.176.126.217

Nice find, Landon . . . at the least, it's another indication that the TPBs are still on track.

I definitely wish Greg good luck on getting a season three pick up for TSS-M. I've enjoyed the show so far and would love to see more :)
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 4:23:20 pm EDT from 157.242.220.247

So both SLG projects are down... bummer. :(

Then again, sounds as if he's up to something. Hope you'll have some more luck with that, Greg. :)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 3:00:33 pm EDT from 84.191.202.190

ToonZone interviews Greg: http://news.toonzone.net/articles/29043/marvel-animation-age-amp-toon-zone-interview-greg-weisman-on-spectacular-spider-man
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 12:01:08 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

@ King Cobra: "I haven't read the books (yet), but judging by your response, and by the movie (which is largely faithful to the comics), then I'd say you're pretty damn right."

Let me ay it this way:

Snyder has tried to put the main storyline into the film without changing it. In that, he has succeeded.
I even liked the changes to Dr. Manhattan and Adrian, but...

DAMN; the guy has NO IDEA what WATCHMEN is about.

I mean, the film was really good and all, but he just HAS NOT A SINGLE CLUE what the book actually is about.

And that hurt.

Read the comic. Really. Read chapter 6, and you will realise how gruesome, dark and disturbing the film could have been if Snyder really would have had the intelligence of a filmmaker like Aronofsky or Nolan.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 11:31:42 am EDT from 84.191.202.190

Brook> " There will be a DEADPOOL movie after WOLVERINE, Ryan Reynolds is a HUGE fan of Deadpool (which increased my amount of acceptance that he is the one to marry Scarlett Johansson by a 100% or something) and both the studio and him have voiced their intrrest in a spin-off after Wolverine, so to say."

Sweet. Saw a comic panel of him on MySpace, and just seeing that alone has turned me into a Deadpool fan. Definitely can't wait to see Wolverine's movie, and then (later on) Deadpool's.

"It is his book. He FUCKING owns it. (I usually don't use the F word in here, but talking of WATCHMEN and Rorschach, cmon people - HE JUST DOES!!!!!!!)"

I haven't read the books (yet), but judging by your response, and by the movie (which is largely faithful to the comics), then I'd say you're pretty damn right.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 11:05:01 am EDT from 99.54.144.47

@ King Cobra: There will be a DEADPOOL movie after WOLVERINE, Ryan Reynolds is a HUGE fan of Deadpool (which increased my amount of acceptance that he is the one to marry Scarlett Johansson by a 100% or something) and both the studio and him have voiced their intrrest in a spin-off after Wolverine, so to say.

Now, RORSCHACH... no fucking way!!! Whoever read the comics knows that R is always and will always be bound to the limits of Moores WATCHMEN.

They shouldn't have just taken the best from him out in the WATCHMEN film (= chapter 6, they cut the best parts out and left my favourite part o the book). And, to be frank, WATCHMEN IS Rorschachs film. It is his book. He FUCKING owns it. (I usually don't use the F word in here, but talking of WATCHMEN and Rorschach, cmon people - HE JUST DOES!!!!!!!)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 8:17:17 am EDT from 84.191.202.190

Superheroes> It's my personal belief that Deadpool deserves his own movie.

Or, on a lesser, improbable note, Rorshach from "Watchmen". The guy is a badass. It would be awesome to see a gruff, badass character like him leading in his own film.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sun, Mar 22, 2009 6:23:11 am EDT from 99.54.144.47

lonerider26> I'm pretty sure that off-topic comments aren't completely off-limit.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 8:43:13 pm EDT from 96.25.38.137

Okay, um, why are we all talking about super heroes in a Gargoyles forum?
lonerider26 - [lonerider26 at gmail dot com]
"I stand here, I cannot do otherwise."~Martin Luther
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 8:34:34 pm EDT from 68.51.71.186

To me, it always seemed that the color of the clones didn't interest Thailog. He just wanted some minions who would obey his brutal commands. As long as they did that, they could probably be plaid for all he cared.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I don't know. I'm making this up as I go." - Indiana Jones
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 8:26:31 pm EDT from 71.62.136.51

Brook> Superman The Animated Series and Justice League proved that the character can be interesting without going The Punisher route.

Anyway, the fact is superhero comics would be boring if every single hero was as dark as Batman, just as much as if every hero was purely upbeat and optimistic.

Therefore, it's best to have light heroes, dark heroes and those that blend the two traits as well.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 4:23:24 pm EDT from 71.115.231.114

@ Demonskrye: That is a.) the exact description of the PUNISHER film and b.) quite a good call why SUPERMAN IS BORING!!

;P
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 2:34:57 pm EDT from 84.191.233.231

Superhero Movies> OK, let me clarify a little what I mean by "feels like" in this case. I am not a purist. I can understand the need to change certain aspects of a story when adapting it to film for any number of good reasons. In the case of mainstream superheroes, most of them got their start decades ago and have likely been reworked and revamped many times over before any screenwriters and directors and studios started messing around with them. What made sense to kids in the fifties and sixties doesn't always fly with the somewhat older and more sophisticated modern audience for superheroes. So things will get changed and I'm OK with that.

What I'm not OK with is when you have a movie that makes changes to aspects that are crucial to the original concept. I mean, just look at the video Patrick linked to. (And thank you, Patrick. I got a good laugh out of it.) Ask any random person on the street to describe Superman and they'll likely tell you that Superman is a guy with a red cape and blue spandex with red underwear over his pants and a big "S" on his chest who can fly and is really strong and can see through walls and he came from another planet and he was raised by Johnathan (or "Pa") and Martha ("Ma") Kent and his weakness is kryptonite and son on and so forth. In other words, there are certain essential aspects to Superman that people use to identify the character and that in some cases are part of why they like the character in the first place. Are them some things you can chance about Superman? Sure. He's gone from being able to "leap tall buildings in a single bound" - as in he was actually just jumping really high, not flying - to actually being able to fly. Does hi power have to come from the Earth's yellow sun? Not necessarily. Must kryptonite be his ONLY weakness? Heck no. Does he have to grow up in a place called "Smallville"? No. In fact, I think you might be able to move his childhood home from rural farmland to the suburbs and still have it work. I'm not saying that a movie should do these things, because they'd likely get the Superman fans pretty angry and frankly I can't see why anyone would want to change most of these part of the Superman mythos (except for kryptonite being his only weakness, which is seldom the case even in the comics.) My point is, I think that fimmakers can change certain details about a character - if they have good reason to - and still end up with a movie that feels true to the character.

However, if you're working on a Superman film and you're not going to have him in the costume at all - not a redesign, but no "S," no red cape, no blue spandex, none of it - and he isn't going to fly, then why in God's name are you making a Superman movie? (I don't consider the giant spider to be a deal breaker, even if it might have been silly.) Why not just make up a new character who doesn't fly or wear a costume? When people go to see a Superman movie, the minimum they expect is to see a guy with an "S" on his chest and a red cape flying around. What was the tagline for the very first Superman movie? "You'll believe a man can fly." If the tagline for you movie could well be "You'll believe a man can't fly," then you're not making a movie about Superman.

Now in some cases, tone is also an essential part of the character. Batman is a character who was defined by tragedy. So is Spider-Man, though they're very different characters. Superman is not. His home planet exploded, but it happened when he was very young, so any loss and grief he may feel are much less immediate than what Bruce Wayne and Peter Parker have been through. This isn't to say that you can't explore some darker and more serious issues with Superman. He's an alien, pretty much the last of his kind and though he's far more embraced by the public than many superheroes, he can be seen as something of an outsider. But he's not driven to do what he does out of guilt or anger. He fights for good because he has these powers and his upbringing taught him that the right thing to do is to use them to help other people. So Superman isn't going to be like Batman. He's not going to seek to inspire fear the way Batman does. He won't talk to a civilian the same way Batman does. His superhero and civilian personas are just about the verse of Batman's. And he doesn't deal with the same kind of criminals that Batman does.

Again, my concern is not that a serious Superman movie is impossible. My worry is that studio execs are going to want something as close to "Dark Knight" as possible, even if that's totally wrong for Superman. They're assuming what's good for the goose is good for the gander, without taking the time to look a little closer and realize that the gander is actually a sheep.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 1:48:14 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Bruce Timm did Superman Doomsday and after I saw it I thought they should make a live action movie like it.
spideyforever
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 1:11:51 pm EDT from 74.199.102.57

Basically, If you want ANY good COMIC film.. get Timm.

Sadly, he ain't doing a lot... :(

I just was reminded of how much I want a SANDMAN film to happen, yet I still only read 4 issues. :D
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 12:41:10 pm EDT from 84.191.233.231

If you want a good Superman flick then the answer is simple... get Bruce Timm to do it.
Algernon
"We gaze continually at the world and it grows dull in our perceptions. Yet seen from the another's vantage point. As if new, it may still take our breath away. Come... dry your eyes. For you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home." -Dr. Manhattan
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 11:13:21 am EDT from 86.41.201.171

@ Demon: I'll watch the vid in a second, it's pretty slow, but what I've heard by now is interresting (Smiths is an intelligent person, but bad director, sadly enough :( ).

But, adressing the "it doesn't feel like" quote: I think that the last few films that "felt" like the source material were rather bad. I thought Daredevil was bad, WATCHMEN was pretty mixed to me, a good film but very disappointing, Spiderman certainly wasn't any good by its last chapter.

Though, the films that altered the characters came closer to their comicbook counterparts. Both first films of the reborn X-Men and Batman franchises have been stellar film (screw X3, cause it was Brett Rattner).

I'm happy if it doesn't 'feel' like Sups, but ends up a stellar film. Daredevil and the latest Superman felt like the comics but were pretty forgettable.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 11:02:55 am EDT from 84.191.233.231

Whenever I hear people talking about a "dark" Superman I just flash back to this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgYhLIThTvk
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 10:36:19 am EDT from 173.88.144.38

Angela> I don't think she's a boring character, but I think a lot of the stories we've seen with her so far have dealt heavily with her relationships with other characters (being Goliath's daughter, a potential love interest for Brooklyn, Broadway, and Lex, then Broadway's love and mate-to-be and another "one that got away" for Brooklyn.) It's not that I don't think she's never been interesting or displayed a personality outside of her relationships with other characters, but we've haven't seen who she is as in individual as much as we have with any one of the Trio.

The Clones> Greg has said in the past that Thailog would have insisted on Delilah being capable of reproducing, so I'm guessing that she and the other clones are all able to have children. It's not a sure thing yet and there has been some indication that the Labyrinth Clan may continue to use cloning to increase their numbers or create new generations, so we'll have to see.

The current theory on Brentwood - one that I think is very likely to happen - is that he will be following a path somewhat similar to the one Lex had gone down in "Future Tense." This has led to speculation that Brentwood will eventually betray and usurp Thailog, which would certainly be interesting.

I can't remember if Greg has confirmed this, but it seems likely that Brentwood is also gay since he shares Lex's DNA. It's also been suggested that his choice to return to Thailog was partially due to Brentwood having a crush on Thailog.

Superman> My concern about this film is that we're going to end up with something that no longer feels like Superman. Maybe I'm wrong and there's a really good sincere reason for the proposed direction of the new movie, but I'm concerned that the thinking behind this is nothing more than "Hey, "The Dark Knight" was really...well, dark and it made huge box office, so lets do more dark superheros movies and they'll be incredibly successful too!" Which is not an approach I'm comfortable with. I think a superhero movie should be based in a strong understanding of the essentials of who the character is, not what else is popular right now. Superman isn't Batman and the factors that make a good Batman movie aren't always going to be the same ones that make a good Superman movie.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 10:22:10 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

@ Spidey: Hahaha, well, that would be quite a stretch though. Without Lois, Sups totally useless. ;)

I think it would be interresting to do it in a different style than Dark Knight, but darker.

Having seen the WRESTLER, I find it really, really sad that Aronofsky hasn't made WATCHMEN. Pi, Requiem and Fountain were all brilliant, but Wrestler did show that he could have made the faux Soap Opera of WATCHMEN an epic, yet grungy and dark film.

I think with his abillity of showing the destructive side of a man, he would be the right choice to do Sups.

But, if I were him, I would take away part of the invincibility. Being invincible... sucks as a suprhero. XD
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 10:04:39 am EDT from 84.191.233.231

Patrick> Well, normally coloration would be determined by genetics, but it's been said that it was the artificial aging process that produced the clones' odd skin tones. And it does make a bit of sense; soaking a living thing for an extended period of time in who-knows-what kind of solution to force them to age faster...
Kerry (Kth) Boyd
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 9:58:09 am EDT from 71.56.36.35

Brook>It's not Superman's fault he's so invincible that's the writers decision . He is one of my favorite heroes and he deserves to have his movies Dark Knighted up because that would be awesome to see. Maybe for a dark twist have Lois DIE. Sups would be so pissed at Darkseid if he did that.
spideyforever
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 9:43:28 am EDT from 74.199.102.57

@ Spidey: Thank GOD for that. Superman is my least favourite comicbook hero, and that is parly because what has been done to him in the past.
I couldn't even watch the remake, because, although I dig Singers work, looked completely stupid and cringeworthy.

Is there any news on a director yet?
And I'm totally with a reboot. (Although, I guess, it'll fail)

My highest hopes atm are for a DAREDEVIL reboot to happen. The last film was HORRIBLE, although they put a ton of great actors in there (exclding the horrible Ben Affleck) and the director had a sense for nice visuals, it missed the point and has a messed up storyline. (I've yet to see the "original directors cut" which was shelved and got released earlier(

This is something I'd love Greg to write. It would essentially be like a mix of GARGOYLES, SPIDERMAN and BATMAN. Totally up his alley (me thinks). :D

Brentwood: Actually... is Brentwood gay?

I just LOVE the clones. That panel from Bash, where they all go "Labyrinth GOOD... me GO Delialah..." Yeah, you stupid clones, go along and e'll see you being all messed with later. XD
God, I love those guys... Really looking forward to what will happen to them.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 8:00:32 am EDT from 84.191.233.231

To me, Sevarius always came across as rather impatient, preferring expediency over accuracy. A clone by it's true definition would be the genetic and physical twin of the parent. Coloration is determined by genetics, therefore it's clear that the process Sevarius used to make Thailog had some flaws, and he still hadn't refined it sufficiently by the time he cooked up his second batch. Of course, there's the old saying that "practice makes perfect." In fanfic, I speculated not only that the third time would be the charm, but that our boy Anton wouldn't let a perfectly good blood sample from Angela go to waste.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"I guess you could say I'm really beside myself." - Weird Al Yankovic, "I Think I'm a Clone Now"
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 7:52:16 am EDT from 173.88.144.38

Dragomir > I see no reason why the clones cant breed. Essentially, they are supposed to be the exact same as the gargoyles they came from... except of course for color, smarts, some personality quirks. But we do know they can breed, otherwise how would we get the Delilah that appears in that spin-off in the far future? If the Labrynth Clan is to survive, they must be able to breed. I doubt theyll just keep making more clones, so they gotta make some eggs.

Im still dying to know if Maggie is going to give birth to a human child or to a mutate child. I cant even decide which I would rather see. A mutate child would be adorable but a human child might make more sense. Then again, we still dont know how deeply the mutation touched Derek and Maggie so there is no way for us to know what is getting passed to their kid until nine months from this point in the comic. Hmm... guess we'll just have to speculate to keep us busy :D
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 2:45:54 am EDT from 209.243.38.9

In Superman news they are planning either a reboot or a dark sequel. I want to see a dark live action Superman movie and it said they want a dark villain who is a worthy opponent of Superman which means they'll probably introduce my favorite Superman villain who is of course drum roll please DARKSEID.

My idea however is for them to introduce Bizarro and Metallo and as a side villain Manheim, and at the end we see them on Apokolips and Darkseid is facing away they ask him who he is and he says Call Me...Darkseid.

In the third movie, Doomsday is introduced as a native of Apokalips and they have the whole Death of Superman story and during Superman's absence Darkseid attacks Metropolis and when Superman comes back from the dead they have a climatic battle.

PLEASE REPLY AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK.
spideyforever
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 2:03:26 am EDT from 74.199.102.57

Dragomir -- Sevarious may be dirty doc and a ham, but I have a good feeling he's on top of his genetics and that all of the Labyrinth Clan will be capable of having kids.

Granted, the mutates' case IS being closely watched, as Maggie has recently become pregnant. Nothing's a guarentee, but should she have a healthy kid, then I would think the clones would have a good chance of having children as well -- at least there's no genetic 'mixing' in their case.

As for Brentwood, I think he's a perfect example that while the clones may have a simple way of thinking, they are still capable of having complete personalities.

Brentwood isn't a carbon copy of Lexington when it comes to his personality and he didn't just do what the other clones did during "Bash." He saw Thailog and concluded he wanted to tag along. His rationale may be simple, but it didn't stop him from having the freedom to choose for himself and considering where he (and the other clones) first started off as in 'The Reckoning' and its evident that there's been some growth for these guys too :)

As for the verb thing . . . ah, we shall see d:
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Mar 21, 2009 12:34:16 am EDT from 157.242.220.146

yeah..the hole inner beauty and Angela's personality (which i actually like) or lack there of is starting to go a little crazy. So how about this for a topic...

What is your view on Brentwood? The only clone to remain loyal to Thailog, do you believe he'll come to his senses eventually or will he remain Thailog's faithful sidekick, his "Igor," if you will? Also, what are the chances of Brentwood or any of the other less intelligent clones (the ones of the clan, not Delilah) of developing real, individual personalities of their own?

Last idea...What are the chances of them reproducing successfully? It seems clear Malibu and Delilah like eachother, but can they really have kids if they are clones? Wouldn't their copied genetic material be too weak to breed healthy offspring?
Dragomir
We Live Again!
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 11:40:37 pm EDT from 24.147.152.76

No. I said that she had no personality and was boring.

However, I wasn't like "YEAH, let her DIE!!!" when she lay there, as a more cynical person might have went.

I wanted to state by that, that this scene moved me, although Angela usually didn't impress me on a characteristic level.

She wasn't as bad as Poochie though...
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 9:45:46 pm EDT from 84.191.204.191

Wait... she showed no personality until she died? Makes sense.

The lesson here is: Want to be the life of the party? Break out the razorblades!
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I don't know. I'm making this up as I go." - Indiana Jones
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 9:37:37 pm EDT from 71.62.136.51

LEAVE ANGIE ALONE!

:: lies on bed and cries ::

:P
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 9:29:24 pm EDT from 173.88.144.38

@ Rebel: Does she even HAVE a character?

OK, now I'm being unfair. But most of the time, she's really paint-by-numbers, ain't she?

OK, I was shocked during her short death-phase in HUNTERS MOON... but still, she really didn't show a lot of personality until then.

I was looking forward to some in-relationship fights of her and Broadway, but I guess we'll not see it, and the two will be totally made for each other. *sigh*
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 9:27:28 pm EDT from 84.191.204.191

Personally, I do find Angela to be pretty boring. She's too perfect--she has a FEW character flaws, but doesn't seem to have nearly as many as the rest of the clan. I want Angela to start making some terrible decisions every now and then and maybe once in a while she could get her whole clan into a heap of trouble. That would be cool.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 9:20:17 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

@ Algernon: Yeah, no probs.

Mainly, I have just a problem with what is considered to be morally right, yet is wrong on a broader scale.

I can see where you're comming from, and that you'd rather be with somebody who loves you for who you are, than what you look like.

I can understand that, but for me, I could never be with a person who only loves a part of me, and not the entirety of me - body, soul, personality and character.

So yeah, we can settle this. :)

But I'd like to ask another thing concerning Angela: who does actually think she is the most boring of the clan?

I mean, I kinda like her... but on repeated viewings, I got pretty... well, I found her naive and lacking a realy character... might be me, I truly have to re-watch some of the EPs, but the last time I checked, I was weirded out by some of her actions and her role in the clan.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 9:17:13 pm EDT from 84.191.204.191

You know what, guys? I caught more of what was happening at the beginning of Awakenings part 3: Elisa let Owen know she wasn't falling for his lie and demanded that he let her pass or she'll go get a search warrant and bring backup. Then she demands answers from Xanatos and what he told her was bullshit, too. Seeing a gargoyle had her thinking 'okay, Xanatos didn't say anything about gargoyles' and it peaked her curiosity as what else Xanatos was hiding. I think she was convinced from the start that he was hiding something.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 7:47:01 pm EDT from 166.128.252.122

Uh, actually we have off-topic conversations here a lot. And the inner beauty thing IS related to Gargoyles, as it relates to the Angela/Broadway discussion.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 7:26:18 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

Demonskrye> Frankly I'm happy to drop it, Brook's last post lead me to believe that one of us has seriously misinterpreted what the other was trying to say; and I have a nagging suspicion that I may be the one at fault here.

Plus my last post verges dangerously into sarcastic wise-ass territory, guess I've been hanging around Greg Bishansky to long. ;)

So how about it Brook? Can we forget this mess and start over?
Algernon
"We gaze continually at the world and it grows dull in our perceptions. Yet seen from the another's vantage point. As if new, it may still take our breath away. Come... dry your eyes. For you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home." -Dr. Manhattan
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 7:25:37 pm EDT from 83.71.25.31

Where'd this thing about inner beauty come from? It has nothing to do with Gargoyles. This is a GARGOYLES comment room so that is what is discussed here 99% of the time or what should be discussed.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 7:13:31 pm EDT from 166.128.252.122

I agree with Gargfan. Brooklyn saw Angela mainly as eyecandy.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 7:06:54 pm EDT from 166.128.252.122

I'm with Supermorff on this. I can see both Brook's point and Algernon's, but at this point, I think everything's been said and there's not much more to discuss.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 6:08:47 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

"Algernon: What is it with you and looks?"

Nothing, all I'm saying is that when it comes to relationships they're not a make or break deal for me. Is that really so alien a concept for you

"I clearly stated quite often that the problem are not the exclusion of the looks, but an exclusion in GENERAL!!"

Huh? who've I been excluding?

"It's like saying "I've got no problem with African American, Asian and Jewish and gay neighbors, but those LESBIANS over there, GOD, get a ROOM!! ;)"

Okay now you've completely lost me, what does any of this have to do with lesbians?

"And I find it rather disturbing that you compare personal attractivity with super human abilities and nymphomania. o_O"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humor
Algernon
"We gaze continually at the world and it grows dull in our perceptions. Yet seen from the another's vantage point. As if new, it may still take our breath away. Come... dry your eyes. For you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home." -Dr. Manhattan
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 6:00:16 pm EDT from 83.71.25.31

So, does the NO Clan promote awareness of resisting illegal drugs? I really hope they don't have a member who rides a skateboard.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"In the end? Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends." -Dr. Manhattan ("Watchmen")
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 5:10:37 pm EDT from 71.62.136.51

GargFan> She chose Broadway, because he actually cares about her for the Gargperson that she is and that he can be perceptive at times. Brooklyn saw her as nothing more than a pretty thing with wings (unintentional rhyme here). Lexington just pursued her because it seemed like the right thing to do.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 5:04:43 pm EDT from 71.115.231.114

Brook & Algernon> This discussion is becoming heated and crude, and is straying far away from the topic of gargoyles. So if you want to carry on with it, could you please do so elsewhere? Thanks.
Supermorff
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 5:00:21 pm EDT from 86.174.127.188

Look, I can see what you say Algernon - but to me, that's like asking "OK, so, shall I cut of your lill finger from the RIGHT hand, or the lill finger from the LEFT hand... or shall I not cut any of your fingers?"

;)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 5:00:18 pm EDT from 84.191.197.172

@ Algernon: What is it with you and looks?

I clearly stated quite often that the problem are not the exclusion of the looks, but an exclusion in GENERAL!!

It's like saying "I've got no problem with african american, asian and jewish and gay neighbors, but those LESBIANS over there, GOD, get a ROOM!! ;)

And I find it rather disturbing that you compare personal attractivity with super human abillities and nymphomania. o_O
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 4:54:29 pm EDT from 84.191.197.172

How did Demona learn the spell to summon Puck? Greg seems to at least allude to the fact that it came from the Grimorum. That's what I'd always assumed.
http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1586

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't think you can ever claim there's a "standard beauty", be it with gargoyles or with humans.
Gorebash
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 4:39:28 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

Brook> "Algernon: Excuse me, but were not talking about "rather", I'm really asking you about what would be the optimum, not the last straw."

Well sure ideally I'd like a girl who was fun, caring and drop dead gorgeous. I'd also like it if she was a billionaire, a nymphomaniac and a superhero, but if I'm choosing a potential life-mate, I know where my priorities lie.

Here's another thought, just because someone is physically attractive doesn't necessarily mean you'll even enjoy having sex with them more. For all you know that blond, blue eyed he-man with the perfect abs could be impotent while the chubby balding guy might be the master of giving oral pleasure!
Algernon
"We gaze continually at the world and it grows dull in our perceptions. Yet seen from the another's vantage point. As if new, it may still take our breath away. Come... dry your eyes. For you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home." -Dr. Manhattan
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 4:38:43 pm EDT from 83.71.25.31

Othello> I don't think there's any clear evidence that the Magus didn't use magic to battle the Vikings, or at least try to. He may have been a few words into a spell and been knocked unconscious by one of Hakon's men before he could finish.

Gargoyle Standards of Beauty> I agree that we don't really know whether Angela and Demona are considered "beautiful" by the gargoyle standard (again assuming there is one standard in a species where appearances can vary so widely from clan to clan.) Goliath may have said something about Demona's beauty at some point; I can't recall right now. But he was her mate, so of course he found her beautiful. As for Angela, all we have to go on are the reactions of three adolescent gargoyles, none of whom had so much as seen a female gargoyle who wasn't spoken for and actively trying to kill them in quite some time. I don't think Lex and Broadway were necessarily as bad as Brooklyn, who would chase anything that remotely resembled a female gargoyle, but I don't doubt that a female gargoyle their age was a welcome sight to all three of them (again, assuming Lex was then unaware of his sexuality). We don't know exactly how all of the other clans look overall, but i sincerely doubt the London Clan considers humanoid features especially beautiful, since so far as we know, such features are rare or nonexistent in that particular clan.

Rebel> Going back a ways, I do share your frustration about how you seldom, if ever, see stories where a female character who doesn't fit the conventional standards of beauty gets paired with a good looking male. I'm hoping Constance will end up being an exception and that when we do meet her mate, he'll be slim, trim, and stunning.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 7:38:23 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

I can believe the NO Clan existing since they live on an isolated, hidden island far from human contact, plus I can believe them living alone on MT Thanatos since we did see a few mountain ranges behind the city in that episode (though I would have liked to see gargoyles moving about freely in a city environment for once). However, I agree that the Loch Ness clan seems far fetched, but not because of the tourist factor, if the Loch is big enough to hide Nessie and Big Daddy, it can easily hide a gargoyle clan. I however find the Loch Ness Clan hard to believe because if their true mission to protect Nessie they should have been gunning after Sevarius and his submarine, even if they couldn't find his lab. I wonder if Greg came up with the idea of the Loch Ness clan AFTER the initial Loch Ness episode (it seems to me if he'd been planning a Loch Ness Clan all along they should have been introduced in that episode). Regardless, if the comics survive I'm sure Greg will give us a good reason for their absence thus far.
Dragomir
We Live Again!
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 7:19:19 am EDT from 24.147.152.76

This is how I imagine Demona came across the "Summon Puck" spell during her research of magic:

Demona (speaking softly to herself)
Destroy the humans, keep. Kill the humans, keep. Slaughter the humans, keep. Summon Puck, hmmm. Keep.

End segment.
2 posts in 2 days, odd. No more posts for me.
Lurker
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 4:36:50 am EDT from 70.248.25.70

Othello: Remember, her spell-casting ways began after she convinced Brooklyn to knick the Grimmorum and ultimately tore an unknown amount from them. We know that some of the pages went into her City of Stone scheme, but there's no telling (at least from my knowledge) what other spells and enchantments those pages may have possessed.

The Grimmorum IS known to have 3rd Race spells in it -- it is where the Magus originally found the Avalon spell (though unlike most spells in that book, the book isn't required to perform it).
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 3:38:46 am EDT from 157.242.220.146

Summoning Puck: I don't really know. :) I imagine spending much of her lifetime researching magic probably helped. (I imagine she spent much of her lifetime researching magic, lol)
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Now, now... Language.
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 3:13:30 am EDT from 68.55.57.46

Sorry,about the second but I have another question. How does or did Demona know how to summon Puck?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 3:01:52 am EDT from 70.162.249.241

Ok,what's with the whole Angela loves Broadway thing?So what,Brooklyn and Lexington just kept fighting over her.Broadway did too,but then just matured a little.Also Angela hated the nickname Brook,Lex,And Broadway gave her,"Angie".Not sure I spelled that right.But atleast Broadway stopped when she saw she did'nt like it.So,she picked Broadway,for some other reasons I don't know.
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 2:58:42 am EDT from 70.162.249.241

I should temper my previous post. I'm not annoyed that he picked such populated areas, I'm skeptical. Like, I get the Mayan clan, because they don't live in a heavily populated area. The gargoyles of Ishimura, however, survived because of human intervention. Their town keeps them protected... so, yeah. The gargoyles of London hid in plain sight.

(the latter part of this post is me arguing with myself.) XD
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Now, now... Language.
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 2:38:13 am EDT from 68.55.57.46

Wow, there's a lot going on here in the room. :)

Hi, new people.

Gargoyle beauty: I think it's entirely possible that Broadway might be considered attractive, and Brooklyn not. Think about it, Broadway is a large, muscular gargoyle who obviously eats enough to maintain a vigorous lifestyle, whereas Brooklyn is kind of scrawny and just not as strong-looking. Also, why does everyone assume that Angela is considered beautiful? The only two characters we've seen affected by her beauty are Broadway and Brooklyn. Broadway evidently loves her, so he's unbiased, and Brooklyn is just something of a skirt-chaser. (I say "just", but he's obviously more complicated a character than that.) Isn't it possible that Angela's something of a plain Jane? She doesn't have particular interesting brow ridges, and she lacks horns. She's also pretty thin, and seems less muscular than Demona. Just some food for thought.

New Olympus Clan: I'm not convinced that the New Olympus clan exists. I know that GW said it, but I'm of the opinion that if I haven't seen it in the canonical series, it isn't canon. I have a little difficulty imagining a society living within another society having so little contact.

Loch Ness Clan: See the above.

With the Canon-in-Training Clans, I'm a little annoyed that GW picked places that are so heavily populated by humans. From what I understand, Loch Ness is a very touristy area, so are the Pukhan mountains (which are in the middle of Seoul, the largest city in Korea). Xanadu, as far as I know, doesn't have a definite location, unless we're talking the (human) city in China. I buy the Mayan Clan, and I can get the London Clan, assuming they pretended to be masked humans for more than 60 years, but that gets sticky, too. I dunno... (sorry for this segment of rant)

This is a long post for me... *toddles off*
Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Now, now... Language.
posted @ Fri, Mar 20, 2009 2:33:55 am EDT from 68.55.57.46

Battle Beast > Haha, that sounds like fun! Ive never thought about novelizing Gargoyles. You should post it if you get the chance. I can always use a good laugh ;D Dont worry, we all laugh/cringe at our old works. I want to burst into tears when I think about the first fanfiction I ever thought to write. It was terrible! :P
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 11:18:01 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

While cleaning today, I found an old computer disk from 1996. So I checked the contents and I was startled to find my novelized version of "Awakenings."

It's terrible, aweful and embarrassing, but I had a laugh or several!

I may psot it in a day or two. Not all of it, but parts.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 11:13:23 pm EDT from 75.156.190.146

I know I already asked this but I never got an answer or theory.Could'nt the Magus have used the grimorum to fight the vikings during the day when the gargoyles slept?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 10:40:55 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

Othello > That is a question we all want answered. One theory is that the Loch Ness Clan couldnt find Sevarious' lab to free the monsters. But we dont know the true reason yet.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 10:22:40 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

In the episode "Monsters" why did'nt the Loch Ness Clan come out to save the Loch Ness Monsters?Is'nt that what they protect?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 10:17:13 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

Othello > We dont know. All we really know is how many the Manhattan, Avalon, and Labrynth Clans currently have: Manhattan - one (Angela), Avalon - 17 (two of which are beasts), and Labrynth - one (Delilah, though two if you count Maggie). We dont know how many other gargoyles are in the other Clans of the world so there is no way to guess how many females there are.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 9:00:37 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Othello> Wait... if you knew what they looked like? I thought you meant something along the lines of "how many female gargoyles are left, and who are they?" Are you wanting to know their physical appearances instead?
Kerry (Kth) Boyd
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 9:00:19 pm EDT from 71.56.36.35

Probably,well,If I knew what the lochness,xanadu,Korean,and New olympus clans gargoyle beasts looked like.But yes all of them.
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:52:52 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

Othello> Do you mean the ones we know the names of, the ones in a specific clan, or ALL living female gargoyles and beasts in the entire world?
Kerry (Kth) Boyd
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:44:03 pm EDT from 71.56.36.35

Standards of attractiveness change as societies evolve, sometimes to polar extremes. At one point in Western history, being fat and pale was a sign of high status, showing that you could afford to eat well and didn't need to labor outdoors. Nowadays, the wealthy strive to be thin and tan.

Saying that "Angela saw Broadway's inner beauty" does sort of imply that he's not considered physically attractive, but who's to say what features female gargoyles are normally attracted to? With there being so much variety among gargoyles, what makes sense to them might be completely different than what makes sense to humans.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:44:46 pm EDT from 173.88.144.38

What female gargoyles are there left? counting beasts.
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:39:47 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

BROOK - I certainly wouldn't recommend Brooklyn describing Constance in those terms while she was within earshot. You do *not* want to offend someone who can rip both arms off a Steel Clan robot.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:36:25 pm EDT from 4.244.213.150

Outer and Inner Beauty> I think at this point we're arguing a lot of hypotheticals. My experience is admittedly limited, but i think most relationships involve two people who find each other attractive physically and mentally. Maybe one more than the other, but how often do you really stop to think about that? And in long term committed relationships, I think you really do stop separating the two and just end up loving the whole person.

Lex's Sexuality> There are a couple of explanations for how we've seen Lex behave in the past. For one, there are plenty of actual gay men who do not immediately realize that they like men upon hitting puberty and proceed to date girls for a while before realizing that it's not what they want. So it doesn't seem that odd to me that Lex would show some interest in the female gargoyles walking by in "The Mirror" or join his brothers in pursuing Angela, even if on some level he knew he was doing it mainly to avoid being the odd garg out. I'm thinking at that point he wasn't sure of his sexuality and mainly figured that he just hadn't met the right girl yet. Whatever does or doesn't come of Lex meeting Amp, I'm sure it will at least mark a big step towards Lex figuring out his sexual identity.

That being said, I do personally believe that sexuality is less black and white (or even black, white, and a single shade of gray), than a spectrum with any number of different shades. So it is possible that Lex really was attracted to Angela to some degree, though not enough to continue pursuing her. I guess my concern is that portraying a character as "bisexual" (which may not be what you'd called Lex if he only had an occasional attraction to women) can make it seem like the character could simply "choose the easier path" and only date opposite sex partners so that his sexuality becomes a non-issue. Not that this would really be the case, as a person's heart doesn't always choose the easy and most appropriate match for them in all senses. I think we'd probably need to get to a point where the idea of a Disney character who is gay is maybe slightly less shocking before society in general was ready to maturely handle one who was bisexual.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:32:54 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Ah OK. :)

Though, I'd love to see that moment, I guess Brooklyn would pretty much see her as a normal Gargoyle, and not go "Great, she's available, but looks like a sow. UGH!!!" He's got too much style for that. ;)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:06:40 pm EDT from 84.191.203.121

Speaking personally, when I said that "Gargoyles don't have human standards of beauty", what I meant was a knock on the common fan perception that gargoyles consider humanoid gargoyles to be the most attractive ones, and that they react to other types of gargoyles the way a human would react to seeing another human with tusks or a beak. You see it all the time with fanfic gargoyles angsting about their beaks and stuff.

Which is frankly ludicrous, since nonhumanoid faces are common gargoyle features and part of their genetic makeup, and have nothing to do with health or symmetry. A rejection of "ugliness" has been theorized as having to do with shunning individuals who might be diseased or crippled, and blatantly abnormal features are part of that. But nonhumanoid gargoyle faces *are* normal to them.

Now, Broadway being fat I could see as a count against his attractiveness, since it is not a standard feature among gargoyles, but these things are hardly universal.

And I agree that looks matter. But they matter in different degrees to different people, so Broadway/Angela isn't impossible. Maybe someone feels their partner could look better than they do, but they are comfortable with that and find other things intersting enough that they don't try to change that person or consider their flaws a deal-breaker.

Regarding Coco, the dogpiling was for the fans commenting that Brooklyn would be oh-so-shocked that there was an available female, but because she was heavyset and resembled a wild sow, so it would be another *whaa-whaa-whaa!* moment for Brooklyn. It *wasn't* about people not being allowed to care about what others looked like, but turning an unconventional female character into a punchline, something the world doesn't need more of. It's possible to care about looks and not be a jackass about it.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream"--Shirley Jackson
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:03:39 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

@ Othello: You should definetely look up this site: http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/
The Garg Wiki has a lot of detailed descriptions of the various clans, characters and Gargoyles, and why they are where they are (like the Gargoyle with the Breastplate and his son on Avalon:

http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Demona%27s_Second
http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Avalon_Clan )

A REALLY helpful site, which I relate often too when things confuse me. :)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:59:47 pm EDT from 84.191.203.121

Othello > They are images of the long dead Wyvern Clan, the clanmates of Goliath and the others. But theyre not alive; just stone animated by the venegful spirits.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:52:18 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

In "Shadows of the Past",what clan are the animated stone gargoyles from?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:48:39 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

Brook > I agree. Im sure he felt something for Angela, if only, "Oh, look, a gargoyle my age that is not my brothers, the first one I have seen in two years; maybe I can 'have some fun', if you know what I mean". I was just stating what has been said before, I think by Greg W himself, though I could be miss quoting.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:46:44 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Thanks brook.
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:45:33 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

I mailed off my overview on "Gargoyles" to the Popular Culture and the Middle Ages organization. They asked me to write and submit it for an anthology they're planning on the Middle Ages as portrayed on television; I hope that they like and accept it.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:36:09 pm EDT from 4.244.213.150

If you post a comment, there are two scales to click on: COLOR to the lft and AVATAR to the reght (just above the field where you type in the text). Choose whatcha like. :)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:35:35 pm EDT from 84.191.203.121

how do you put an image next to your comments? I cant seem to figure out how.
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:13:56 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

@ Algernon: Excuse me, but were not talking about "rather", I'm really asking you about what woud be the optimum, not the last straw.

And I found that remark very odd you just made about looks ina long term relationship. I know many fine people who've ended relationships, because they felt no longer attracted to their partner, and even felt guilty for it. And none of them were superficial people in any way.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:07:40 pm EDT from 84.191.203.121

Brook> "To put it simple, Algernon, if you were in a relationship, what would you rather like to hear from your partner: "Hey... I love you... although you're really ugly." or "I love you... and you ARE beautiful.""

I wouldn't want to go out with someone who called me ugly to my face mainly cause she'd have to be a seriously insensitive bitch. But for the record I'd rather go out with a with a friendly, funny and dependeble girl who happened to be chubby or have crooked teeth then tie myself down to one of the Sally Avrils of the world.

On an objective level looks are really a very minor factor in whether a relationship works in the long term.
Algernon
"We gaze continually at the world and it grows dull in our perceptions. Yet seen from the another's vantage point. As if new, it may still take our breath away. Come... dry your eyes. For you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home." -Dr. Manhattan
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:54:41 pm EDT from 149.157.1.180

You guys are just too quick for me. XD

@ Litwolf: I've got a bit of a problem with that explanation... I dunno... one of the things where I disagree with Greg... a good friend of mine is homosexual, and he's had quite some relationships with girls befor he realised it. And although he's mentioning how he was homosexual all his life, he also stated that he felt (or, from one drunken statement, feels) drawn towards girls, and loved his ex-girlfriends.

Have you seen Kinsey? This scene where Kinsey has this... scale or what it is, where he's rating both the hetero- and homosexuality of his clients on a scale from 0 to 6, stating that almost nobodies grade is 6/0, and that it is mostly 4/2 and 3/3?

So, I dunno if this is an answer... XD But there you go. :) I dunno what Lex grade is... But I think he also fel drawn towards Angela a bit. Else he wuld have went "Shut up guys, you're stupid, haha, leave her alone." or something...
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:51:45 pm EDT from 84.191.203.121

By the way, that website I posted is NOT the only website about Phi, nor is it the best. There are lots of others out there that are probably more credible or scientific. I admit that I got lazy and I just posted one the first websites that I found when I did a search for "Golden ratio human beauty." So if anyone is interested I encourage you to do some independent research.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:49:46 pm EDT from 198.175.205.251

@ Rebel: You're right, I forgot about Golden Ratio...

Hurm... you got me thinking there...
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:47:07 pm EDT from 84.191.203.121

Dragomir > "Speaking of Lex, is it possible Lex may actually be bi rather than merely gay or straight? He did truly seem interested in Angela when she first appeared even though he was the first to give up the ghost, so perhaps he actually has a thing for both genders?"

Haha, that would be an interesting thought, though it has been said that the only reason Lex was chasing after Angela is because his brothers were doing so, not because he was attracted to her. Still, that is an interesting thought.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:46:11 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Well, I suspect that gargoyle standards of beauty are not that different from human standards of beauty. After all, Angela is considered attractive, and she conforms very closely to human standards of beauty in terms of proportions. Actually, saying that gargoyle standards of beauty are probably similar to human standards of beauty probably isn't accurate...probably a more accurate way to put it is that I suspect that gargoyles appreciate a well-proportioned gargoyle face or body in the same way that humans appreciate a well-proportioned human, and the proportions are probably not that different.

Has anyone heard of the Golden Ratio, or Phi? If someone were to take a bunch of screenshots of cartoon characters who are NOT human, but are nonetheless "attractive," I suspect that their faces and bodies would be in the Golden Ratio as much as an attractive human face and body is. Beauty is not nearly as subjective as some people seem to think it is. I know that there are people out there whose tastes differ wildly from the norm...but they are the exception and not the rule and the very fact that THERE IS A NORM when it comes to beauty is, in my opinion, quite telling. It's true that preferences for certain traits vary widely across cultures and time periods, but the ideal proportions for a face haven't changed much throughout time and are very similar across cultures. Phi is found all throughout nature, not just in humans. So, while personal preference is a factor when it comes to outer beauty, the main thing is how well one conforms to ideal proportions. And I'm not talking about the kind of "outer beauty" where you get to know someone's personality and suddenly you start to appreciate their body more--I'm talking about the initial gut reaction that one has to a person's body/face before knowing anything about that person's personality. I'm sure there are many times when a person gets to know an unattractive person and is so taken by their personality that their outside suddenly becomes appealing too, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

Here's a website about Phi if you're interested:
http://goldennumber.net/beauty.htm
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:42:59 pm EDT from 198.175.205.251

@ Dragomir: Although Greg has stated that Lex is gay... who knows which direction his character takes in the future. Nothing is canon as long as it ain't written to me...

@ Rebel: You wanted to post your theory on Lex last week, still in the mood to do it? :D I'm pretty interrested to hear it. :)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:42:55 pm EDT from 84.191.203.121

@ Demonskrye: Thank you. :)

"See here's the thing. All of this stuff about how Angela loves Broadway for his "inner beauty" and ONLY his inner beauty? That's nowhere in the show or the comics."

I agree, I meant the generella perception of this by fans of the show AND in other media, especially teenager films (I'm looking at you, THE HOTTIE AND THE NOTTIE!!).

Of course, I think this also has to do with certain "standarts of beauty" that have developed in modern society, trying to tell you what you're supposed to find attractive and what not. Although Broadway is overweight and bald, who knows if this isn't what Angela is also attracted to? And before somebody jumps in, who says that this IS ugly? It is just different.

I remember this discussion where somebody said he'd not choose Coco, cause she looks like a Pig, and various people jumped in and accused him of being superficial.

We live in a free society, and just because somebody isn't attracted to a person, doesn't mean he's judging that person.

To put it simple, Algernon, if you were in a relationship, what would you rather like to hear from your partner: "Hey... I love you... although you're really ugly." or "I love you... and you ARE beautiful."
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:39:11 pm EDT from 84.191.203.121

I wonder if its possible for gargoyles to mate with New Olympians...Not that they necessarily would given that they're isolationists and all that. I also wonder how the New Olympians have been able to keep their bloodlines going strong all these centuries if they themselves are the halfbreed offspring of the Fey and mortals (be they human or possibly gargoyle). Don't hybrids in nature usually lack the ability to reproduce?

In regards to the inner beauty/outer beauty discussion, I agree that you should love a person for all their traits rather than just their looks or just their personality, especially if you wish to pursue a serious relationship. I too am not a big fan of the Broadway/Angela pairing and would have rather seen her with Brooklyn or Lex (who I know now is considered gay by Greg himself) or as Brook suggested seen her remain single a bit longer before making her choice. However, it happened and we're just gonna have to accept it and wish those two love birds...er...bats...er gargates the best of luck, lol.

Speaking of Lex, is it possible Lex may actually be bi rather than merely gay or straight? He did truly seem interested in Angela when she first appeared even though he was the first to give up the ghost, so perhaps he actually has a thing for both genders?
Dragomir
We Live Again!
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:29:05 pm EDT from 64.80.233.194

Algernon> In Brook's defense, he's not advocating the idea of people falling in love based on appearance as opposed to character. He's just saying that it's generally best if a couple finds each other both physically and mentally attractive. Just as I doubt any of us would want to be told that someone likes us only for our appearance and not our personality, I doubt we'd want to hear that a person loves us for our character, but merely tolerates or outright can't stand our looks. Yes, love is often about learning to live with minor things about your partner that you may not like or trying to make changes to be a better partner yourself and doing it because the things you love about the other person far outweigh the thing you don't. But that doesn't mean you must ignore physical appearance completely when looking for love. As I said, I don't think this is what's being put forth with any of the characters in "Gargoyles." There's no reason to think the couples we've seen so far don't love each other for their outer and inner beauty, keeping in mind of course, that beauty is a very subjective thing and very much in the eye of the beholder.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:50:57 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Othello > NO Clan stands for New Olympus Clan. We just shortened it to spare our fingers :P
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:32:22 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Sorry,not sure what happened with that.
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:20:37 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

Dragomir> What is the NO Clan?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:19:25 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

Dragomir> What is the NO Clan?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:19:23 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

Brook> Why is the idea loving someone for their personality or strenght of character so abhorant to you?

Demonskrye> It's the big old webbed ears, gargoyle chicks go crazy for those sexy webbed ears!
Algernon
"We gaze continually at the world and it grows dull in our perceptions. Yet seen from the another's vantage point. As if new, it may still take our breath away. Come... dry your eyes. For you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home." -Dr. Manhattan
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:18:09 pm EDT from 149.157.1.180

Broadway and Angela> See here's the thing. All of this stuff about how Angela loves Broadway for his "inner beauty" and ONLY his inner beauty? That's nowhere in the show or the comics. It's a matter of personal viewer perception. We know that part of the reason Angela fell in love with Broadway is because of his personality, but do we know that there's nothing beyond that? The fact is we don't know anything about what Angela finds attractive in particular or even the general gargoyle standard for beauty, assuming there is one in a species with such a huge diversity of appearances. Thinking "Well Angela can't like Broadway for his looks because he's a fat guy, so it must be some 'inner beauty' thing" is assuming facts not in evidence. Even the couple in "Gargoyles" who you would think would be the most obvious argument for "inner beauty over physical beauty" - Elisa and Goliath - doesn't really seem to be one. Yes, it took Elisa turning into a gargoyles for Goliath to say anything about her physical appearance, but I think that had more to do with getting Goliath past the fact that they're two different species and that he really wasn't looking for a romantic relationship with anyone at the time since he wouldn't completely give up on his relationship with Demona until "Vows," three episodes later. Elisa clearly find Goliath attractive, at least by "Cloud Fathers." They have had to overcome a lot in order to be together and I'm sure there are more challenges ahead for them, but I see no evidence that they have ever had to contend with not finding each other physically attractive.

I see nothing wrong with wanting to be loved for your mind, body, and soul, for the complete package. But I do see something wrong with assuming that just because you don't think someone is attractive, no one else does either.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 3:34:00 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

I correct myself: you, not you guys.

And I agree with what was stated before: the concept of visual beauty is very subjective. Thus, I'd rather be with a person who falls in love with me, both because she finds resonance in my personality and is attracted to my body, than with somebody who loves me solely because of my character, yet finds my face to be a "turnoff" but "gets over it" because I'm such a cool guy... puh-lease...

Plus I think that unattractivity also comes from the inside. i happen to cross paths with a lot of physically perfect people, whose characters were so dull and menacing, that they had an aura of true ugliness around them.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 2:57:39 pm EDT from 84.191.203.121

@ Algernon: As I stated before, this hasn't got to do with the inclusion of the personality and the exclusion of the ugly (???) putside, but rather the exclusion of something complete in this. YOu remember in South Park, where they open up the tolerance camps, yet in the end it is revealed that what people are looking for is NOT TOLERANCE but ACCEPTANCE?

Why is it so hard to swallow that I find a concept that includes ALL positive traits, and not just part of it?

I find that as repulsive as the other side. Somebody who's only in a relationship because of its outside appearance is not very different of somebody who's only with a person for his inner appearance, or only for his money, or only for voice or whatever other skills you might apply?

Why is the concept of an actual soulmate so revolting to you guys?
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 2:48:31 pm EDT from 84.191.203.121

Brook> "And as I've stated before, I'm a bit fed up with the entire "inner beauty" scheme in fiction. I find it bothering to give a message like "the innr beauty counts" whilst it should be "the entire 'package' of a person counts", or rather, "the reflection of one's soul, personality and physiognomy counts"."

Remember kids love, relationships and sex are for beautiful people only; so all you uglies better just give up and stop deluding yourselves right now.
Algernon
"We gaze continually at the world and it grows dull in our perceptions. Yet seen from the another's vantage point. As if new, it may still take our breath away. Come... dry your eyes. For you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home." -Dr. Manhattan
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 2:38:20 pm EDT from 149.157.1.180

Demonskrye> Werll done! Thanks for posting that. It needed to be said.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 2:10:50 pm EDT from 75.156.190.146

Demonskrye> Great post. Hey NEW PEOPLE, take the time to read it before Ask Greg opens next Monday!

Dragomir> While Thailog's agenda is a mystery and he seems to be pretty occupied with it, I don't think a mate is on his agenda currently. I'm not perfectly clear on the whole gargoyle mating cycle concept since it doesn't interest me all that much, but if Demona wants her race to rule once again, I think it would be interesting if she sought out Thailog when she was in heat.

All> Everyone enjoying Brad Goodchild's Gargoyle cells as much as I? http://thecanuckleheads.blogspot.com/
Anthony Tini
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 10:30:43 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

Even though the NO Clan are very private, they must still have a good, working relationship with the rest of New Olympus given how Baraeus referred to them as a noble race (it remains to be seen how the general attitude toward gargoyles is with the rest of New Olympus though given how Goliath and Angela were treated horribly for being friends with a human).

P.S. i know this is kinda off topic, but do you think Thailog will attempt to find or create a new mate/concubine for himself to replace Demona and Delilah? God knows he doesn't care about love but he's a narcissis who enjoys having someone stroke his ego and catering to his dark pleasures. And didn't he steal DNA from most of the Manhattan Clan during his attack on the castle during Halloween?

P.S. is the comic villain Jove descended from the original Olympian by the same name or is he Zeus himself?
Dragomir
We Live Again!
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 10:02:49 am EDT from 64.80.233.194

Since we have a lot of new people here with a lot of general questions, I think it's time for...

***STATE OF THE FRANCHISE***

What's going on with "Gargoyles" in all of its many forms. If anyone has any additional pertinent information or corrections, please feel free to share.

THE ANIMATED SERIES

The last animated half-hour of "Gargoyles" - the "Goliath Chronicles" episode "Angels in the Night" aired in February of 1997. Disney has no current plans for producing additional episodes. All 78 episodes are currently running on the cable channel Disney XD in the U.S.

THE GOLIATH CHRONICLES

The third season of the TV show was known as "Gargoyles: The Goliath Chronicles." The episodes were made almost entirely without the participation of Greg Weisman, co-creator of "Gargoyles" and main driving force behind the first two seasons. Greg wrote the first episode of "The Goliath Chronicles" and gave suggestions to the new team handling the show, some of which were followed, some of which were ignored. A new animation studio was tasked with animating the series, resulting in a show that looked and felt very different from the previous two seasons. Fan opinions on these episodes vary somewhat, but Greg Weisman does not consider them canon and most fans agree.

GREG WEISMAN

Greg is the co-creator of "Gargoyles." Though by his own admission, many talented people worked very hard to bring the series to life and it would not be what it is today without their contributions, "Gargoyles" is largely Greg's baby. He oversaw the production of the first two season of the TV show and wrote all of the Slave Labor Graphics comics. Despite the fact that "Gargoyles" is obviously very important to him, Greg has stated that he is not interested in making new "Gargoyles" stories that he can't get paid for. Writing is how he makes a living and supports his family.

THE COMICS

Beginning in 2006, a "Gargoyles" comic book was published by Slave Labor Graphics. Written by Greg Weisman, the comic picked up where the second season of the TV show left off. The first two issues retold the events cover in the "Goliath Chronicles" episode "The Journey" and following episodes contained completely new material. The following year, SLG put out the first issue of "Gargoyles: Bad Guys," a miniseries which told a story from one of Greg's proposed "Gargoyles" spin-offs. The first six issues were collected into a trade paperback. Unfortunately, both comics suffered from frequent lengthy delays caused by a variety of factors. These led to declining sales which, combined with Disney's licensing fees, caused Slave Labor to pass on renewing the license. The main series ended with issue #8 and "Bad Guys" ended with issue #4. No more single issues will be released. However, trade paperbacks collecting the remaining published issues and including issues #9 - 12 of the main comic and #5 and 6 of the spin-off as "bonus material" are slated for publication sometime in the first half of this year. SLG president Dan Vado has also expressed an interest in going back to Disney with a new proposal for publishing "Gargoyles" graphic novels, but SLG's current financial position is rumored to be unstable, so such plans are up in the air at the moment.

THE DVDS

The DVD of Season One of "Gargoyles" was released in 2004 and the first half of Season Two was released the following year. Both DVD sets included bonus features, such as commentary on selected episodes ("Awakening" on Season One and "City of Stone" on Season Two Volume One) and short documentaries. Poorer than expected sales on Season Two Volume One have caused Disney to put the release of the Volume 2 DVD set on indefinite hold.

OTHER MERCHANDISE

Recent years have seen the release of a small amount of new "Gargoyles" merchandise. Two t-shirts have been produced, one featuring Goliath and the logo on the front and the text "Stone by Day, Warriors by Night" in orange on the back, the other featuring the logo and several pieces of character artwork. A sculpture of a realistically styled Goliath by artist Randy Bowen has just become available for pre-order and and a second more show-accurate statue is being developed by Electric Tiki.

THE CONVENTION

The Gathering of the Gargoyles is the annual gargoyles convention where fans can get together, meet the cast and crew of the show, and participate in all kinds of fun "Gargoyles"-related activities. The convention is held at a different location each year. This year's convention take place August 21-24 in Los Angeles.

HOW TO HELP

Many fans want to know how they can help bring "Gargoyles" back, keep "Gargoyles" alive, or ensure that we'll get to see all of the great "Gargoyles" stories that Greg has planned. The thing to keep in mind is that Disney owns "Gargoyles," so the best way to help "Gargoyles" is to work to convince Disney that the franchise can make them a lot of money. Here's a list - by no means complete - of how fans can help to do this:

- Spread the word. Tell people who you think would enjoy "Gargoyles" about it. Get them watching the show and reading the comic. The more people there are buying "gargoyles" products, the more Disney will take notice.

- Buy the comics. Our best shot at getting more new "Gargoyles" stories right now is for the comics to be published again, whether in single issue or graphic novel form. The only way this is going to happen is if the comics that are released sell well enough to make it worth SLG's while to pursue the license again. "Clan Building, Volume 1" is available from Amazon.com or the top link in the column to the right of the comment room. Volume 2 and "Bad Guys: Redemption" will be coming out in the first half of this year.

- Buy the DVDs. Purchasing the DVDs can both tell Disney that people are willing to pay money for "Gargoyles" and help improve the chances that the rest of Season Two will get released on DVD. Both DVDs are available on Amazon, or jus follow the links in the column to the right.

- Buy the Merchandise. While no one should buy anything they don't like or can't really afford, picking up "Gargoyles" related merchandise helps to show Disney that "Gargoyles" could be a big money maker for them. The Hot Topic t-shirt can be found in the column to the right.

80s Tees Shirt:
http://www.80stees.com/pages/t-shirts/Gargoyles-t-shirts.asp

Randy Bowen Goliath Statue:
https://www.comicsinfinity.com/p-13565-preorder-randy-bowens-gargoyle-statue.aspx

Electric Tiki Goliath Statue (artwork only, not available for preorder):
http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/main/?p=1839

- Attend the Gathering. Though it's not officially sanctioned and Disney gets no money from it, seeing large numbers of people who are willing to travel and pay admission fees to attend a "Gargoyles" convention helps to show Disney how many dedicated fans "Gargoyles" has.

That's pretty much the state of things right now. Any questions?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 9:53:23 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

@ Rebel: As I said... I think 1 week ago?... you're close to becomming my favourite poster on here. :)

You put a lot of things I would have said pretty well.

And to be honest, and I rewatched a lot of the show lately, I don't think Broadway is THAT sensitive. The things people strew in, like his realisation that Elisa is undercover, were plain dull on Goliaths part!!

Throughout the entie series, whilst Broadway is quite a gentle soul, he's also the most childish and most prejudiced, be it in positive or negative feelings.

I wouldn't say Angela and Brooklyn are right for eachother either. Whilst he is a very mellow and at times even dark character, she is way more naive and, apart from her god looks, even uninterresting in a way. Whilst I never thought her character hurt, I always found her the least interresting of the entire clan. I just think she couldn't give Brooklyn a lot that he would need.
Remember his EP in S1? (I forgot the name, shame on me) In the scene where Demona shows him around town, he makes a realisation about modern society and crime, and why the two go hand in hand. His sarcasm roots deeply in this EP and the realisations he's made, methinks. To me, Angela wouldn't understand him - neither his needs, nor his darker views of the "outer world".

In the end, I would have preferred Angela to stay Solo. For some time or something...

And as I've stated before, I'm a bit fed up with the entire "inner beauty" scheme in fiction. I find it bothering to give a message like "the innr beauty counts" whilst it should be "the entire 'package' of a person counts", or rather, "the reflection of one's soul, personality and physiognomy counts".

But I'm getting ahead of myself.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:35:40 am EDT from 84.191.231.111

Demonskrye > I agree 100% about the NO Clan. They simply have yet to broaden their horizons, as the Manhattan Clan did at the end of season one.

Jinrou > The chance of the comics being animated is very unlikely. Instead, what we are hoping for is that SLG will return to Disney in a year or so, with a new offer to continue Gargoyles as a graphic novel.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:16:13 am EDT from 209.243.38.9

Clans "Losing Their Way"> Certainly I think all clans protect their rookeries and one another, but I think the point of the main story arc of Season One and especially "Reawakening" is that it's no longer enough. Coldstone asks Demona if "mere survival" is all that's left for them. While protecting the rookery and one's clanmates is certainly a good and correct thing to do, the message seems to be that protecting something other than themselves and being engaged in the larger community outside of the clan is what gives the modern gargoyle purpose. Protecting "the castle" or "the clock tower," concerning yourself with only your own home and family, cutting yourself off from the rest of the world, is not something that works anymore.

Now is it understandable that the New Olympus Clan hasn't come around to this way of thinking? Certainly. While we don't know for certain, it's not unlikely that the gargoyles who accepted the offer to join the New Olympians and withdraw from the rest of the world were gargoyles who had been treated badly by humans or at least saw the writing on the wall and realized that humans were no longer interested in peacefully coexisting with gargoyles. So the gargoyles who founded the New Olympus Clan may have seen isolating themselves from the world as necessary for their survival. It could also explain why they didn't show up during "The New Olympians;" their fear of humans, turned into monsters after centuries with only stories passed down through the generations to describe what they were like, may have overwhelmed their curiosity about the newly arrived gargoyles. But even given these reasons, the New Olympus Clan may have taken the concept of isolationism way too far, withdrawing even from a society that respects them and treats them as equals and showing little or no interest in protecting anything other than their own clan and home, using the narrowest possible definition of "home." Even if New Olympus seldom faces outside threats and the New Olympians tend to be quite capable of taking care of themselves, most clans would have at least some interest in helping to keep the peace in their homeland.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:45:16 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

So is anyone gonna tell me if the new comics will be animated? There are lots of people saying bring Gargoyles back, I agree, so is there a chance?
Jinrou
Bleah Jin
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:32:17 am EDT from 72.65.88.99

Some of us seem to forget that Broadway, just like Lex and Brooklyn are still young and developing. So, for those who feel Broadway is stupid - or his personality is lacking for some reason. Both Lexington & Brooklyn also has their hangups. We've also seen Broadway develop and mature considerably from Awakenings 1 by the end of Hunters Moon 3. So "insulting his personality" not to mention his looks, obviously Angela saw something in him that the others didn't have - maybe sensitivity & a gentle side that the others didn't show. I don't know about the rest of you, but I could see that in him-especially towards Elisa, and then with Angela.

Again, this is coming from someone who's lived the part-but hasn't found anyone willing to look past his appearance.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:01:33 am EDT from 99.245.254.123

Rebel> Not to offend anyone! Whenever I see a large guy dating a hot girl I think two things: "How the heck did that happen?" and "Well, good job to him."

Now, I live in south Texas. Here, men prefer women with a bit of size to them. I have heard women with incredible bodies tell me that guys have said they are too skinny, not attractive, blah blah blah. I even met a female newsreporter that was being told by her producer that she should gain weight.

I am a huge fitness buff (trainer/instructor) so I dont condone purposefully gaining weight (in fat, not muscle) and I appluade those that try to lose it or become healthier in general.

I just wanted to share that here, in South Texas, larger women are appreciated. AND this story http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/11/25/2008-11-25_teacher_sues_city_after_being_fired_for_-1.html

It is about an older overweight, and by mainstream social standards, unattractive woman that is dating/living with a teenage male model. 17 when they met, might be 18 now.

Unattractive/fat men and hot women happens a lot in fiction, but the opposite happens in real life.
Lurker
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 3:36:44 am EDT from 70.248.25.70

Jinrou> Though Broadway may not be a top class detective, he certainly has shown some insightfulness, such as:

- Realizing that Elisa was acting undercover in Protection while Goliath thought that she was under a spell.
- He realized that Angela didn't like the nickname Angie much sooner than Brooklyn or Lexington did.

And as a fellow Brooklyn fan, I have to say that despite becoming second in command, he has still shown some maturity or other flaws:
- Using his position as second in command to have alone time with Angela comes to mind.
- Plus the reason she didn't find romantic attachment to Brooklyn is that he is drawn to her based on her being the closest available attractive female Gargoyle. Broadway while he got pushy saw the person she is underneath (such as trying to reassure her that Goliath and Hudson would be okay away from the Clocktower).
Antiyonder
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 3:28:47 am EDT from 71.115.231.114

If Angela finds Broadway attractive, it's her choice.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 12:43:06 am EDT from 166.128.228.168

State of the TV animation industry: http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2009/03/questions-and-answers.html

"live-action has encroached on the usual ebb and flow of half-hour, animated product. Other studios are chasing the Disney model (live-action half hours), even though it's expensive."

It has a name: "The Disney Model." Gotta love it. Calling
live-action expensive surprises me, although they don't say it's *more* expensive than animation. I would think it'd be cheaper since it can be made so much more quickly.

Disclaimer: it's an animators' union.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Thu, Mar 19, 2009 12:32:27 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

Rebel - Greg wanted to include an overweight female for years but refrained due to audience considerations. More here:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1693
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=2883

Some folks have commented on the trend of attractive females vs. monstrous males and I think Constance and Staghart are designed specifically to counter that.

And you have to admit that's a pretty square jaw on Fleance. ;)
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 10:47:08 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

Matt > I guess I should have specified. It's my opinion that he's unattractive.

Wingless > I agree that looks shouldn't matter. And hey, maybe I'm being immature here. But, as a female who NEVER sees pairings of unattractive females with attractive males in fiction, I've gotten to the point where any pairing of an unattractive male with an attractive female grates on my nerves (no matter how well-matched they are) because it is a stark reminder that you hardly ever see the opposite scenario, and that female characters pretty much have to be considered attractive to be considered worthwhile (think about it--on cartoons there is much greater diversity in male appearance, but most of the female characters are perfect and gorgeous). Like I said, if there were more pairings in fiction that went the other way, then I wouldn't care how they matched people up in terms of attractiveness and I probably wouldn't even pay attention to that kind of thing anymore, but as things are now, I can't *help* but notice.

Sorry. I guess it's just a girl thing.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 9:50:50 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

The only reason I could see Broadway being considered unattractive would be becuase of his weight.

And while it's true you barely see the opposite, a fat woman with a slim man, and that's a problem, it doesn't mean that no example of this trope is well-characterized, and I think a pretty good job was done with Broadway and Angela. They are *not* like a sitcom marriage or summat.

Though based on what I've seen of the fandom, lots of fans like to assume that gargoyles subscribe to human standards of beauty, and thus consider the humanoid gargoyles to be the most attractive. So, they might believe that Broadway would also be considered unattractive because of his protruding jaws, tusks, and baldness, which I don't think would be necessarily true. For humans, maybe, but these are *gargoyles*.

Jinrou, if you want to see Brooklyn get his stuff, try the "Timedancer" section of The Gargoyles Saga, a fanfic continuation of the series, with an expy of Katana named "Sata" (Brooklyn's mate)

http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/td/index.html
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream"--Shirley Jackson
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 9:47:04 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

ah, well said person just above my last comment, although I don't mean to be heartless, I see your reasoning to be the way I was thinking, I just couldn't express it in words as you did. And to Wingless, I wasn't just insulting Broadways appearance, I was also insulting his personality, not that I didn't think his episode of him and Alysa going undercover wasn't one of the best ones out of the series. I guess I'm just sympathizing Brooklyn, seeming as though he didn't get very many roles in the show compared to the others and so on.
Jinrou - [Mephistodin at aol dot com]
Bleah Jin
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 9:45:31 pm EDT from 71.182.37.25

I think a lot of us haven't gotten the point of Gargoyles. The whole "Broadway is unattractive" thing is starting to bug me-especially as someone who is, shall we say, less than attractive himself. Gargoyles are so different from one another in the first place, appearance doesn't really matter to them. They are clan-first & foremost. Choosing a mate is more on abilities and personality than on looks....something I wish the human race could learn from(we'd all be much better off and a lot of really wonderful people wouldn't end up alone simply because of their appearance.)

Feel free to disagree, as I'm sure some of you will.
Wingless
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 9:26:19 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

Wait, wait, wait...

Who says that Broadway is unattractive? Who says that Brooklyn is attractive?

And whether you agree with Angela or not, she was drawn to Broadway and he to her. They are a better match for clear reasons.

Brooklyn only saw her as a fantasy and a piece of @$$.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"We know of your noble race, gargoyle." -Boreas, 'The New Olympians'
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 9:16:10 pm EDT from 70.230.146.100

Well, there are different kinds of maturity.

As far as the maturity to be a leader and strategize, Brooklyn is the clear winner.

But as far as sensitivity, the ability to empathize with others, and emotional maturity goes, Broadway is the winner.

I'm not going to pretend that I like the pairing of Broadway and Angela. I really don't, because it irritates me when unattractive guys get with gorgeous girls in fiction, simply because you almost NEVER see the opposite scenario, which really upsets me. If the opposite scenario happened more often, then the hot girl + unattractive guy pairings wouldn't bother me, but as it is, they do.

At the same time, however, I couldn't really see Angela with Brooklyn...they're just not right for each other. I kinda wish Angela had persuaded Gabriel to join the World Tour and ended up choosing him. Yeah I know there was never any romance between them and he had already chosen Ophelia, but personally I think Angela and Gabriel would have made a great pair. Alternatively, I wish Angela had simply NOT chosen a mate, period. She didn't have to have a mate.

Out of the trio of Manhattan clan gargoyles, however, Broadway was clearly the best choice for Angela, if she HAD to have a mate.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 8:57:08 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

That was a quicker reply than expected, thanks all, the good news makes me happy. Not to step on anybody's toes, but I believe Broadway is less mature than Brooklyn, inability to read and fantasizes about being an undercover agent, plus he shot Alysa, Brooklyn proved to be the most mature when he was made second in command. And is there any chance there will be some new episodes based on the new comics?
Jinrou - [Mephistodin at aol dot com]
Bleah Jin
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 8:33:27 pm EDT from 72.65.95.117

Jinrou> Greg has explained why Angela choose Broadway, and believe me, it works a lot better than most "ugly guy, hot wife" pairings in fiction, because Broadway is actually *nice* and *kind* and it doesn't come off as some kind of wish fulfillment. And he is NOT a cow, he's a gargoyle. :P

You don't have to like Greg's choices, but it's not like it came out of nowhere. It takes more than a character being "cool" to get chosen. Brooklyn just needs to grow up a little, first--the point was that he was too immature for any of the prospects that came his way. He'll get his chance, eventually.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream"--Shirley Jackson
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 8:20:54 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

Does anyone still watch the re-runs of gargoyles? I read the best possible way to bring Gargoyles back on the air,which was on Ask Greg,was for as many people as possible to watch the re-runs on Toon Disney and come to the Gatherings. So if you don't. Start rewatching them and get others to also.Because me,my little brother and probably others want to see more episodes. If its successful Greg might create Dark Ages,Pendragon,Timedancer,ect.So PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE do it. If you dont, then you shouldnt be in this chat room. Go to a different one or something. Sorry if it sounded kinda weird or mean,but seriously.Oh, and dont think Im dumb for it.I just am a big fan of GARGOYLES.
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 8:09:07 pm EDT from 70.162.249.241

@ Jinrou: Yeah, I'm not a big fan of Bradway+Angela either... yeah, I know, it's meant to happen, the inner beauty of Broadway, blah blah blah... I don't dig it. It is OK, but... I dunno... I find Angela too boring a character still, probably...

But yeah, Brooklyn does find peace, after what will be in the TRADE PAPER BACK COMIC Vol. 2. The Timedancer Arc. Don't read too mucht hough, ti comes out soon, you might spoil yourself. ;)
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 8:04:58 pm EDT from 84.191.189.148

New Olympus Clan - In defence of the New Olympus Clan, have they truly lost their way if all they protect is their rookery? Long before gargoyles extended their protection to the much weaker race of humans, didnt they only protect their own territory, which would be the area surronding their chosen rookery? True, I dont know why the NO Clan dont see the entire island as their territory but perhaps theyll break out of their shell once the Clans start reconnecting.

Honestly, Im still more interested about the Loch Ness Clan and why they didnt help the Nessie and Big Daddy. The monsters are probably considered part of their Clan or friends at the very least. Why not come out and protect them when they are in grave danger? Im far more curious about that Clan.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 7:44:40 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Jinrou > Dont worry. Brooklyn has TimeDancer!

Basically, the Phoenix Gate grabs Brooklyn and throws him about at random into the timestream. You can look up more information about in on GargWiki (I dont want to give you spoilers, unless you want them) and, when the comics are finally released into their book form, you can read the beginning of his trip then.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 7:40:02 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

New Olympus Clan -- According to GargWiki, there's good reason to beleive that there was once at least a Roman Clan, as they were supposedly the initial 'benefactors' to the original Magus's Humility Spell. The New Olympus Clan could very well consist of the descendents of the survivors.

As for why we didn't see any of them when the World Travelers arrived, yeah I think its possible they've lost their way. I imagine they could have suffered just as much as the ancestors of the New Olympians leaving them with perhaps not an iota of compassion to protect either the humans they ran from or even their New Olympian neighbors.

Frankly, that would be an interesting challenge to the ol' line of "a gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air . . ."
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 7:13:36 pm EDT from 157.242.209.126

* taps microphone *

Is this thing on?

* pulls claw-tip free from impaled microphone *

Okay, so I've watched all of the gargoyles now, and my favorite is Brooklyn. I have to say, Brooklyn is extremely abused, he may be leader, but he did not even ounce find personal happiness on an emotional level. Lexington had sweet episodes with Alex, Davids son, Broadway, that cow is hitting it off with Angela, Bronx is a dog, so no one cares about him, the old guy either, he had his good times I'm sure a long time ago, Goliath has Alysa, but what does Brooklyn have? all he has is a long series of him always getting shot and/or getting tranked by some thugs, it's just not fair, he always seem so freaking sad too, hes the coolest of the group and gets the least respect, did the director of this f'ing show have something against gargoyles with good physique? This isn't Family Guy or the Simpsons, this is good anime, and I say the fat man should not get the extremely hot girl that we all know is way to good for the likes of someone who just started learning how to read!

And that concludes my rant!

Thank you
Jinrou - [Mephistodin at aol dot com]
Bleah Jin
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 6:49:45 pm EDT from 71.182.39.18

I think every clan, whether they've lost the gargoyle way or not, at least protects their rookery and to a lesser extent their territory/hunting grounds etc. So, at the very least, I'd say the N.O. Clan protects Mount Thanatos and their rookery there. Perhaps they feel the rest of the island is adequately protected by the New Olympians themselves and thus it gives them one more reason to withdraw into themselves.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"We know of your noble race, gargoyle." -Boreas, 'The New Olympians'
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 6:24:47 pm EDT from 70.230.146.100

Demonskrye> I find your last post very interesting. Good thoughts and lots of questions. I think you've hit the main questions about why the New Olypian Clan never came forth and why no one mentioned them (or maybe they did off screen? I dunno).

Also consider that the gargate genome seems to be very capable of mutation into all sorts of forms. Whatever forms the ancestors of the New Olympian Clan may have had, it is possible they've developed one all their own by now.

And keep in mind that we don't know if the first New Olympian gargoyles came from one clan or from many different clans.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"We know of your noble race, gargoyle." -Boreas, 'The New Olympians'
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 6:21:36 pm EDT from 70.230.146.100

I've been wondering what the N.O. clan actually protects, and furthermore, what could they possibly need to protect it from. Any ideas?

If they have nothing to protect (or, more importantly, nothing to protect it from) then I could easily see them as a clan that has "lost its way."
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 6:16:06 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

Dragomir> Interesting questions. I could just be remembering wrong, but I seem to recall that the New Olympian gargoyles have all the same rights as the other citizens of New Olympus, but are allowed to function as a sort of mini-society and govern themselves. I kind of doubt there's any bad blood between them and the New Olympians, but their behavior so far (or lack thereof) does seem to suggest that they would rather keep to themselves. In the one story so far that's taken place on New Olympus, no gargoyles have appeared. This might not be all that remarkable, particularly since the same thing happened when the skiff took the World Tourists to Loch Ness. (Even if "World Tourists" isn't canon, it is kind of useful; shorter than "Goliath, Elisa, Angela, and Bronx" and more specific than "the travelers" or something like that.) But the circumstances here are somewhat different. Though the New Olympians indicate that they know of and respect gargoyles, not one of them says that it's because they have a clan living at New Olympus. Why would they omit that extremely interesting piece of information, unless they were respecting the New Olympus Clan's wish to be left alone? Similarly, if relations between the New Olympians and the gargoyles are good, I can't imagine that at least one New Olympian wouldn't think to go to the clan and say "Hey, a human and some gargoyles just showed up in a boat. You wanna come check it out?" Yet still, no gargoyles. And finally, there's quite a bit going on in New Olympus between Elisa's arrival, the problems that causes, and Proteus's escape (though fewer people knew about the last one). You would think that a gargoyle clan would want to at least keep an eye on these things. But still, no gargoyles. I'm wondering if the New Olympus Clan is not only extremely isolationist, but is also another clan that has lost its way, its members having become more concerned with the clan's affairs than the business of being true protectors.

How many "ethnicities" - if you will - of gargoyles are represented in the New Olympus Clan would depend on how many surviving clans or remnants of clans were left at the time the New Olympians withdrew from the world, whether they wer close enough to get the invitation, and how far gargoyles would generally travel in those days. I would imagine that the majority of the New Olympian gargoyles would be of Greek or Roman ancestry with somewhat smaller numbers fro other parts of Europe, Asia, and Africa. I kind of doubt they would continue to select mates reflecting their geographic origins, but this already seems like kind of an odd clan, so who knows what other quirks they may have developed? I'm guessing that they would have a relatively wide range of appearances, though if the Greek and Roman gargoyles made up a particularly large percentage of the original clan, it's possible that their physical traits have become dominant over time.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:57:51 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Does anyone have any ideas concerning what the New Olympian gargoyles might be like? I heard they're official citizens of New Olympus but that they're very isolationist, does that mean they're even more opposed to opening relations with humans or that they seperate themselves even from other non-gargoyle New Olympians? Do they have any representatives or businessmen in the city? The same technology?

Also, if their clan is descended from many different gargoyle clans coming together to form one clan after they fled to New Olympus, does that mean they may come in many different shapes and sizes? I.E. some might resemble Scottish stock while others may more closely resemble English or Asian gargs, etc? Could the clan consist of many subhouses who work together but have separate bloodlines?
Dragomir
We Live Again!
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:19:08 pm EDT from 64.80.233.194

Supermorff> Didn't know that. See, I was wrong. Learn something new every day. I still contend though, that I saw Goliath and Elisa at a table in the background in one episode of HOM. If anyone can find screencaps that validate my assertion, I would be eternally grateful.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
You cannot make a cup of tea large enough, or a book long enough to suit me."--C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:50:54 pm EDT from 64.105.104.177

Chip & Todd> Unfortunately, Todd is correct. House of Mouse did an adaptation of a Midsummer Night's Dream featuring Mickey, Minney, Donald and Daisy as the four young lovers, and Goofy as Puck. (It had Scrooge in too, but I forget who he played.) The version of Oberon they used, voiced by John Rhys Davies as you already said, was created specifically for the series. I think he was supposed to be a dog of some sort, although I don't honestly remember what he looked like.
Supermorff
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:37:18 pm EDT from 86.174.127.188

Todd> True, but "House of Mouse" features only Dinsey Characters...and after racking my brain, I could not think of any other Dinsey version of Oberon. If you can, let me know. I will admitt that I am probably wrong (I often am) but I could find to evidence one way or another.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
You cannot make a cup of tea large enough, or a book long enough to suit me."--C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:27:25 pm EDT from 69.3.223.233

Demonskyre> Thanks for the links. I had heard about "Sita Sings the Blues," but had no idea if or when it was going to be released. Glad to see it is being put out, even if it isn't the standard distribution. Will check out later.
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 10:38:47 am EDT from 68.190.20.172

Algernon> Oh of course! That's the obvious solution! Nothing could possibly go wrong! ;)
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 9:44:43 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

DemonSkrye> "I have wondered how Greg Weisman can possibly hope to tell over 190 years worth of "Gargoyles" stories in the space of one lifetime, but that's his business and I'll be perfectly happy to see whatever he does manage to get published in whatever form."

Perhaps Greg plans to download his consciousness into a meglamaniacal supercomputer. :P
Algernon
We gaze continually at the world and it grows dull in our perceptions. Yet seen from the another's vantage point. As if new, it may still take our breath away. Come... dry your eyes. For you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home. -Dr. Manhattan
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 9:26:52 am EDT from 149.157.1.184

Blaise > Thanks so much! You seem to be my new go-to-guy on the Gargoyle books ^_^ I think I will get the Gargoyles Look and Find just for giggles. If I hate it, Ill donate it to the summer camp I work at. Thanks again for sharing all of your information!
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 9:09:15 am EDT from 209.243.38.9

Taurus> Since we're on the subject of the New Olympian Chief of Security and his famous ancestor, I wonder if maybe Taurus's version of the story of the Minotaur may not be entirely accurate either. I personally think it's a lot more interesting if the story is much more complex and nuanced than either the human of New Olympian version rather than simpler "minotaur good, humans bad." When you think about it, we also don't know what the Minotaur's origin was in the Gargoyles Universe. If he was a child of a mortal and one of Mab's Children, that would seem to indicate that the circumstances of his conception and birth were somewhat different than the version we know from Greek myth.

Kris> I guess it depends what you mean by "series" or "movie." There are tons of short and short-ish cartoons kicking around the internet. Some are student work (which can be amazing), some are just animators goofing around, and some are more seriously thought out projects, like Homestar Runner, for one. The thing is, creating a cartoon series that debuts new episodes regularly or a full length animated feature takes an incredible amount of time and work, usually by many people and even multiple studios in the case of most animated series on TV. So if people aren't going to be required to pay to see the product, there's usually going to have to be some kind of source of revenue - such as advertising - or it's simply going to be too much time and effort for no return.

That said, here are a few pieces of animation available for free online that you might enjoy.

Feature Film "Sita Sings the Blues" was not originally intended to be available for free online, but the copyrighted songs used in the film's soundtrack scared off potential distributors, so the artist (yes, this is a rare example of a feature length film made largely by one person) decided o make it available online under Creative Commons.

http://www.sitasingstheblues.com/

"There She Is!" is closer to the animated short format, but it's a series of shorts and some of my favorite animation online.

http://www.sambakza.net/ (Change the menu language to English and click on "amalloc".)

And if you dug 80s "Watchmen" cartoon intro, you may also enjoy the trailer for the American "Akira" by the same creator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jafd97yJFOI

Queeny> Personally, I'm not thinking that far into the future now. I can't speak for anyone else, but I plan to be around for several decades yet and while I'd like to see more new "Gargoyles" stories in that time, ensuring that it happens, let alone that there's still a chance of it happening after I'm gone, is not a top priority for me. If I'm concerned about anything, it's where "Gargoyles" is going to be in the next five years or so, not where it will be in the next sixty.

I have wondered how Greg Weisman can possibly hope to tell over 190 years worth of "Gargoyles" stories in the space of one lifetime, but that's his business and I'll be perfectly happy to see whatever he does manage to get published in whatever form.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 8:22:29 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Harvester> God that's funny as hell, I especially liked Bubastis as potrayed by Snarf from Thundercats!

Queeny> I would hope by that time we'd have managed to get our kids and grandkids hooked on Gargoyles.
Algernon
We gaze continually at the world and it grows dull in our perceptions. Yet seen from the another's vantage point. As if new, it may still take our breath away. Come... dry your eyes. For you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home. -Dr. Manhattan
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 7:44:04 am EDT from 149.157.1.180

CHIP - It might not necessarily have been the Oberon of "Gargoyles". Oberon's a public domain legendary figure who's been around for several centuries, remember; it could have been a different adaptation of him.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 7:41:55 am EDT from 4.244.214.189

Has anyone ever wondered what's going to happen to the Gargoyles fandom once us lot are gone? We're the generation that's stuck by it since it's cancellation, so what happens to Gargoyles once we're gone?
Queeny
"Well, I like a man who bring's me weapons!" Hyena 2-2-1
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:28:33 am EDT from 212.219.240.74

That "Watchmen-as-an-`80s-Saturday-morning-cartoon" intro is inspired. Some real nice effort went into that.

Is anyone producing well-written, good looking series cartoons that they offer for free online ? Or even just one-time movies ? You see art and animation students put up their efforts on Youtube, short films and the like. I figured eventually someone would get real ambitious and start producing non-network-controlled cartoons. To be honest, I haven't searched that hard for any, so this could be a phenomenon that's in full swing. Seeing that Watchmen cartoon thing reminded me it's doable.
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:41:00 am EDT from 69.17.187.216

Algernon & Landon> Unfortunately, no, I could find no screen caps...honestly, I only ever saw "House of Mouse" three times. I just remembered seeing them at a table and thinking it was cool at the time (Some date for G & E)--I couldn't even tell you which episode. According to IMB though, Oberon was in an episode, and appearantly he had a speaking role. But he was voiced by John Rys-Davies (MacBeth) instead of Terrence Mann http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0605996/ That's the best I could do. I couldn't find either episode on Youtube or find any screencaps.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
You cannot make a cup of tea large enough, or a book long enough to suit me."--C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:58:35 am EDT from 68.164.2.168

****Blaise dances an Irish jig as he appears in the Room.**** Happy St. Patrick's Day, everyone (it's still the 17th where I am)!

LITWOLF> Well, let's see:
-"Defenders of the Night" is a retelling of all the 994 A.D. material from "Awakening," primarily from Tom's point of view (he's in all but two scenes!). It is unique in that the illustrations are original to the book (no screenshots of the show). This leads to some errors (Lex has bat-wings in his first appearance, and Mary's coloring is brighter than usual), but is overall very pleasing. Also, since it ends with the gargoyles turned to stone and DOES NOT flash forward to their modern day awakening, it could be construed as ending on a rather down note for a children's picture book. I quite like it. :-D
"Meet the Characters"-is exactly what it says on the tin, a sort of character guide for the main cast. A couple of pet peeves: Broadway and Bronx are lumped together in one category (and Broadway's given short shrift in that!) and they go with the bizarre measurements that were featured on the trading cards (Broadway weighs 1 ton as flesh, 10 tons as stone?!). Still, it's full of mostly original artwork of the characters--quality varies (I swear, in one pose, Elisa has the eyebrows of Maleficent), but overall I thought it was fun.
-Todd already summarized "May the Best Gargoyle Win"--it has mostly background illustrations (you're supposed to add the characters yourself with the stamps) and ends with Xanatos unceremoniously dumped into the lions' cage.
-"While the City Sleeps" is a visually impressive pop-up book. Seriously, how many pop-up books bother to illustrate the BACKS of the pop-ups? The story's nothing special, though--in fact I find it almost infuriating (gargoyles are NOT that sissy!)--but it's for kids. If you want a summary, I can do one later.
-"Look and Find" is essentially a "Gargoyles" themed "Where's Waldo"--but you're not always looking for the gargs. There's about 9 scenarios, only 6 of which are based on episodes ("Awakening," "Thrill of the Hunt" and
"Temptation"), and of the remaining three, two of them are just SILLY (at least to me). Mind you, there is a lot of silliness going on throughout (anthropomorphic mice painting a picture of cheese, anyone?), and sometimes, it seems that the writers/illustrators did not bother to do much research on the show. Take Demona, for example. Although we don't always see her with the gargoyles, the book never indicates that she becomes an enemy, and in one of the "new" scenarios (the artist's studio), it looks like she's HELPING the clan! For me, the book is worth it for the occasional laugh.

Until next time! ****Blaise stops and pulls out a HUGE stein of...something. He chugs it down in one go...and falls backwards right through the floor.****
Blaise
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:36:08 am EDT from 76.208.151.183

Just another example of various CR posters becoming totally linked in other posters minds to their avatars. I can hardly see the Xanatos or King Arthur avatars without thinking they are Greg B of Todd Jensen.

The biggest exception to this is anyone who uses Demona or Brooklyn avatars (and possibly Puck too). So many people use these avatars that they all start to seem like one person after a while. Esspecially when using similiar color texts.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Well, I should've known no copy could live up to the original..." - Xanatos, 'Double Jeopardy'
posted @ Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:10:04 am EDT from 70.230.146.100

Gargoyleslady -- Maybe the site update made it hard to fine the guidelines, but if you simply go under the 'Ask Greg' Tab and click on 'Introduction' you can see where Greg makes it quite clear what's ok and what is not ok.

What's perhaps not mentioned there (perhaps) explicitly, is that Greg's not really fond of questions he has asked been asked before, whether it's on Gargoyles or Spectacular Spider-Man, or what-have-you. So be sure to check the archives on this site to see if something has already been asked and answered before. If you can, it wouldn't hurt to look at the unanswered queue and check and see if someone already asked whatever question you were considering to ask, so Greg won't get swamped by multiple identical questions. :)

Todd: Whoops, my bad. I do beleive I saw your name, but I guess seeing Cuchulainn triggered an immediate "Matt" in my typing.

As for the Minotaur, yes, Gargoyles is definitely an example of the classic stories getting being revealed in a new light (Taurus telling the council about his ancestor is an easy example of this), but I was more wondering how humans in the Gargoyle universe will be effected, and not necessarily WE humans :P (If the sounds confusing, I apologize)

But yes, I'll definitely have to check out what both you and Brook have recomended :)
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:31:24 pm EDT from 157.242.216.124

If I were to submit a question to Ask Greg when it returns, what questions does Greg consider appropriate and inappropriate by his standards?
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:42:24 pm EDT from 70.218.8.85

Algernon: Here, you might enjoy this. It's what Watchmen would be like if it were a Saturday morning cartoon in the 80s. And it's actually pretty accurate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"In the end? Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends." -Dr. Manhattan ("Watchmen")
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:01:47 pm EDT from 71.62.136.51

Othello > It was an animation error.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:07:11 pm EDT from 75.65.27.129

In the City of Stone part 2, when duncan attacks demonas clan just before nightfall, duncan destroys the green gargoyle and blue gargoyle. When they fight the one with the two large horns, not breastplate is there.But when they fly off the green one is there and the two horned one isnt.What happened to the green and the horned one?
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:48:54 pm EDT from 70.162.249.61

Just an Add: EVERYBODY WHO LOVES WATCHMEN, please, go out and have a look at the book HOUSE OF LEAVES.

I'm a sucker for modern classics, Lolita, The Heart is a Lonely Hunter, Watchmen and Catcher in the Ryan were my top 4, HOUSE OF LEAVES made the fifth spot.

It is very similliar to Watchmen in... blending reality and fiction, and is definetely a "life altering" book.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:21:09 pm EDT from 84.191.217.36

"I wonder how the tale of Theseus killing the Minataur in the Labyrinth will go about once its revealed there's some decendents (at least Taurus) of the Minataur still about."

I advise reading the chapter THE MINOTAUR from HOUSE OF LEAVES. This elaborates exactly this issue, and discusses a modern play in which the Minotaur is in fact the disfigured son of Minos.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:19:07 pm EDT from 84.191.217.36

PHOENICIAN - Sorry, that was my post, not Matt's. I was using the "Cuchulain" avatar for St. Patrick's Day, which he normally uses; I'm sorry if I confused you. I should have thought that out more carefully.

Greg Weisman's indicated that Oberon's Children have still kept their true existence secret from humanity by 2198. But, yes, I've also wondered what the effect of the New Olympians' revelation would have on the study and retelling of classical mythology. The scenario that you suggested is taking place, in a way, in the real world, since there are many such rewrites that portray the "monster" as the good guy and the "hero" as the bad guy. (John Gardner's "Grendel" is one example. Fred Saberhagen's "The Dracula Tapes" is another. Then there's the "Gunnerkrigg Court" take on Theseus and the Minotaur, in which Theseus was a drunken partycrasher who ruined the Minotaur's birthday party. And "Gargoyles" itself could be such a work, with the bat-winged "monsters" as the heroes and the Hunters who pursue them (themselves the descendants of people portrayed by Shakespeare in one of his best-known plays as noble and virtuous) as dangerously obsessive vengeance-seekers.)

Though most of my thoughts about the impact that the New Olympians would have on the world was more what it would do to the study of classical mythology and its origins. All of a sudden, it turns out that the minotaurs, sphinxes, centaurs, etc. of Greek myth weren't religious symbols or personifications of months in a calendar or horsemen as seen by people who didn't know anything about horses (an actual theory about the origin of centaurs) but real species - which are now meeting with the United Nations. (Not to mention that a lot of scientists and corporations would want to get a closer look at New Olympus's technology, such as their sky chariots and cloaking device.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:00:30 pm EDT from 4.244.215.149

Happy St. Patrick's Day! Since Greg's mentioned the 'working title' for the potential Cuchullain/Banshee spinoff (Heroes of Ulster) a while back, I've been wanting to know more about it, perhaps because its the least developed of all potential spinoffs, but more so since I'm a big Irish History fan. :)

Matt: Hmmm, Interesting. After the Gargoyle's revelation in New York its has been hinted that New Olympus is bound to go public in the coming years, and then there's always the possibilty of the Third Race being revealed as well (though that could be longer, considering the duration of the Gathering). One scenario I can imagine would be humans making more 'politically correct' versions of classic fairy tales and legends. I wonder how the tale of Theseus killing the Minataur in the Labyrinth will go about once its revealed there's some decendents (at least Taurus) of the Minataur still about.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 7:28:57 pm EDT from 157.242.216.124

Algernon> Thanks for posting that Link! That was hilarious and terrific!!!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 6:53:28 pm EDT from 75.156.190.146

In "Watchmen" (at least, in the graphic novel; I don't know if it's in the movie) the presence of live super-heroes (and the recognition of the trouble that they could cause) made super-hero comic books less popular, leading to the favorite topic of comic book adventure stories being pirates instead. I wonder what effect the public revelation of the gargoyles at the end of "Hunter's Moon" would have had on stories about mythical creatures (especially of the horror variety, like vampires and werewolves - let alone living gargoyles) in the modern world.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 6:42:32 pm EDT from 4.244.215.149

Just found another one on PaperBackSwap.com! Something called a Rubber Stamp Kit with a book titled 'May The Best Gargoyle Win'.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 6:41:27 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

I know I asked last week but I found more books on PaperBackSwap.com. I found a Gargoyles Look and Find, Meet the Characters, While the City Sleeps (Pop Up Pals), and something simply called Defenders of the Night. Do you guys have any info on those? Especially the Look and Find, Im so tempted to get that one just for kicks ^_^
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 6:37:30 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Sorry about the double post but since it's Paddy's Day and I'm a native of the Emerald Isle, I thought I'd post this special tribut to one of the greatest Irishmen of our time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HplZ_taHXLM
Algernon
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No." -Rorschach
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 5:07:57 pm EDT from 149.157.1.180

Chip> For Real? You got screenshots or anything? Not that I don't trust you or anything but my brain just can't wrap itself around the concept unless I see proof!
Algernon
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No." -Rorschach
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 4:19:45 pm EDT from 149.157.1.184

Landon> I think it could be great for SLG too, if they can afford it. We still don't have a clue how much a table at D23 Expo is going to cost or if SLG is in good enough financial shape to take a risk on a new convention. But they would probably be in a better position to actually sell merchandise than fans would. It's one thing to sell pretty much any item that is no longer available through regular retail and charge whatever price they think the market will accept. But a fan who went with the intention to sell the DVDs or the trade paperbacks would either have to find a way to get them for less than retail price, sell them at a higher than retail price, or be OK with merely breaking even (not counting however much it costs to get a table at the convention.)

Anonymouse> I tend to agree on the Bowen statue. It's OK and it's great if people like it and want to buy it. But I'm going to save my pennies for the likely more show-accurate Electric Tiki statue.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 3:34:32 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Anonymouse - Sorry, I'll try to remember that for S8, unless the URL is really long. This is the statue link: http://www.action-figure.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=24642
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 1:53:07 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Landon: Could post the real web addresses instead of those fake, sleazy looking ones? I for one prefer knowing what page will pop up on my screen next. With those fake ones it might be everything from Teletubbies to Goatse.

I'm not very fond of the Bowen statue, too. It looks more like a pained, colored Conan the Barbarian.
Anonymouse
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 1:48:06 pm EDT from 88.130.176.80

Chip - Really? Wow, I had no idea. I just got the impression from a few episodes that Disney Afternoon was conspicuously underrepresented. That's cool Gargoyles got a little attention though.

Demonskrye - That's what I meant by bringing up the Fan Forum. It could be a good opportunity to bring up Gargoyles in a way that Disney would encourage.

Actually, it sounds like a perfect opportunity for SLG since they license Disney stuff and have a new Wonderland hard cover coming out. I'm going to tweet them about it.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 1:39:08 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Landon> Actually, I saw Goliath and Elisa at one table in "The House of Mouse", so they didn't ignore the TV shows, and someone made a concious effort to put G & E in an episode. (Though, they were only in the background and had no speaking roles)
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
You cannot make a cup of tea large enough, or a book long enough to suit me."--C.S. Lewis
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 12:55:04 pm EDT from 68.164.4.75

Could'nt the Magus have used the grimorum to fight the vikings when they were attacked during the day? Like the lightning spell or something. Oh yeah, Happy ST. Patricks Day!
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 12:18:35 pm EDT from 70.162.249.61

Landon> Can't honestly say that I'm too excited about the Bowen Goliath since it barely looks anything like him, I'd rather save my money for the excellent Electric Tiki statue.
Algernon
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No." -Rorschach
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 12:17:39 pm EDT from 149.157.1.184

This D23 thing sounds interesting. A good way to show support for Gargoyles, especially since we could say 'Get involved now and buy the comics coming out at the end of summer', just to show that our future is not dead. Where does it take place?
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:53:45 am EDT from 209.243.38.9

Landon> It sounds like the Fan Forum is going to allow fans to get tables where they can show or sell items from their Disney collections. Whether they're going to allow anything else, like a table where people hand out flyers to promote the DVDs and comics, remains to be seen, as does the cost of getting a table for yourself or whether a person would be allowed to simply walk around and hand out flyers. It sounds like you can get a table simply to show off your collectibles, which means a fan wouldn't have to be selling their collection in order to have a "Gargoyles" themed table. If someone were going to attempt to do this, I would think they would have to go in with a very Disney positive attitude, as opposed to saying or even implying that this is a show Disney has buried or has something against.

As for "House of Mouse," that's not entirely true. Goofy's son Max was first introduced on the TV series "Goof Troop" and though Donald's nephews and Uncle Scrooge did not originate on TV shows, they appear in their "Quack Pack" and "DuckTales" designs, respectively. And Wikipedia (grain of salt) says that two characters from "Pepper Ann" made appearances, as did some characters from "Mickey Mouse Works" (likely because "House of Mouse" featured many cartoons that originally aired on that show.)

Anonymous> While I'm not really familiar with AMGC, I'm guessing that either the people running it didn't have the time to do so anymore or there wasn't enough interest to keep it going. There could be other reasons, but those seem like the most likely to me. Maybe someone around here know more, but that's my best guess.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:27:15 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Is there anyone in CR that leaves near or reasonable driving distance to the Anaheim Convention Center? And can that person or persons go there and represent us to possibly get Disney's attention once again?
Anthony Tini
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:21:35 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

The Goliath statue will be released 3rd quarter: http://is.gd/nIcV

Also volumes 2 & 3 of The Spectacular Spider-Man DVDs come out today. They have episodes 4-9.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:07:34 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

random question ; mgc (the Gargoyles art contest every month) seems to run smoothly every month but amgc (the adult Gargoyles art contest) has not been working for nearly two years. does anyone know why?
Anonymous
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:05:29 am EDT from 209.243.34.141

I just checked and Gargoyles is still airing on Disney XD at 2:30am EST. So 'not actively making money' isn't accurate, especially with the numerous licensed materials we've seen over the past couple years. Still, Disney always seems to focus on movies as a part of their 'tradition' rather than canceled TV shows. I'm just reminded of House of Mouse that featured almost every Disney movie and comic character they've ever had from ancient to modern, but not a single TV character.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:10:01 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

Kris - I seriously doubt they'll ever mention Gargoyles in D23. If I know Disney, they'll be focusing on their current TV shows (especially the cheaper and more profitable live action ones) as well as their movies that are either coming out on DVD, premiering on TV (i.e. High School Musical), or have an established marketing effort, like the Disney Princesses line. They won't mention Gargoyles because it's not actively making money and isn't a part of their holistic image (like Mickey, Tinker Bell, etc.).

However, you can bring up Gargoyles up at the convention. Here's the page: http://d23.disney.go.com/expo/031009_EE_EXPO_TheD23ExpoComesToSoCal.html

Re: the 'Fan Forum':

"Disney's biggest fans are invited to participate in all the action. There will be an entire convention hall for everyone to show off their collections and sell their Disney treasures."

If someone arrived with a bunch of Gargoyles trinkets to sell, it would probably draw attention. And showing up in a Goliath costume would be funny. I don't think they'd kick you out since there's an established cosplay tradition at conventions. But they won't like it if you look like you're soliciting other guests.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:55:16 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

@ Algernon: If you're older than 25, then there's no excuse for that. ;) ;)

Glad you loved it. :D It is in my top 5 favourite books, and definetely my favourite graphic novel.

Any plans to continue the journey? :)

Oh, and go watch the film. It is good, but Snyder has not a single clue of what the comic actually IS about.
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:30:10 am EDT from 84.191.217.36

Kris> The D23 Club was just announced a couple of weeks ago, so this will be the first D23 Expo. (If anyone's wondering, the "23" is for "1923," the year Walt Disney left Kansas City for Hollywood and founded what eventually became the Disney Studio.)

I think we may have to wait for more details on what the D23 Expo is going to look like before we consider dispatching a fan to promote "Gargoyles." We really don't know at this point what this convention is going to focus on or whether or not outside groups will be allowed to purchase tables or have any kind of a presence. It could end up being a great opportunity to remind Disney fans about the existence of "Gargoyles" and the DVDs and comics, or it could be a situation where someone walking around in a gargoyle costume handing out flyers would receive only weird looks at best and be asked to leave at worst.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:44:41 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Happy St. Patrick's Day, everybody! (I'll return to my regular color and avatar tomorrow.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:34:42 am EDT from 4.244.209.192

Pretty off topic but I just finished reading Alan Moore's Watchmen for the first time in my life. All I can say is: ...danm
Algernon
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No." -Rorschach
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:27:55 am EDT from 149.157.1.180

Disney Movie Club sent me a big envelope of adverts in the mail recently, I guess because I keep registering my Disney DVDs (and the ones me and my sister buy for my little cousins) and they've finally deemed me worthy of joining their good-deal-but-with-required-commitment-to-buy-more home movie club. Or something.

Anyway, it got me poking around Disney's sites and I saw a few opportunities for fan efforts. Maybe you guys, or Garg fans on other sites, are already all over these, but...

The D23 Expo (an official sort of Disney convention)
From their description: "It's the ultimate Disney fan experience, taking place in Anaheim, California from September 10-13, 2009. This can't-miss event will feature guest speakers, celebrity appearances, breathtaking exhibitions, sneak peeks, film screenings, one-of-a-kind merchandise, and so much more! Admission will be discounted for D23 members."

Anyone here know if anyone Gargoyles-related is representing ? Have people in the past ? (or is this the first year for this convention?) I know Gargoyles already has its own specific convention in The Gathering, but would it likely be worthwhile to promote and remind Disney fans at another convention ? I know fans already take DVDs, comics, and set up displays/booths at comic and anime conventions. I probably can't get to California in September (and not unless I have one or two other good reasons to go), but I bet someone bringing in Gargoyles DVDs, assuming they aren't already being sold there, would be a great idea.

Also, in their store section, they have Customize-a-Shirt sections. Many characters/logos/symbols for the designs of the shirt you're about to purchase, and you can re-size, flip, and manipulate the images in various ways. Can also add your own text. There are both popular and semi-obscure Disney characters/properties available from a pull-down list. I'm gonna suggest they put a bunch of Gargoyles designs up on there, maybe mention the (apparent?) success of the Hot Topic Gargoyles t-shirt to encourage them (and is the `80s T-shirt one still available too ?). While fans can make their own t-shirts easily enough, I bet many would appreciate the opportunity to buy other official designs, especially those who didn't like the Hot Topic and `80s Tees shirts enough (or at all) to bother buying.

At least the Season 1 DVDs are still available for purchase from DisneyShopping.com, but for some reason Season 2 isn't on there. Nor Gummi Bears (another Disney TV series I wanna fully own awaiting completion since 2006), though it looks like every other Disney cartoon's boxed set is available.
Kris - [plekopleko at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Mar 17, 2009 3:58:17 am EDT from 69.17.187.216

Gorebash> Hey, thanks for putting up our link to the Gargoyles commentary on YouTube (I didn't think anyone in here had really seen it). I hope it was likable. But in all fairness I should say that Gargoyles wasn't our first choice to do commentary on, but when we got a lot of hits for our X-Men: Evolution episodes, I figured why not do commentary on my favorite show ever.


Demonskrye> We tried to make the commentary a mixture of humorous and casual/personal. I don't know how well it worked, but I've had people write to me on YouTube and say that they were glad to see stuff on Gargoyles, so I figure that's a good thing.
Charisma82
"Why should things be easy when they can be hard?"
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 7:52:23 pm EDT from 64.128.148.204

According to toys released for Wolverine Origins that I saw at my local Wal-mart Wolverine will hear his yellow and black striped costume in the movie.
spideyforever
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 7:34:51 pm EDT from 74.199.102.57

GargFan> Animation models were mixed up.
Antiyonder
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 7:29:32 pm EDT from 71.115.239.228

In City of Stone part 1,after the massacer at wyvern, Why did Demona start looking so old? It was right after she awakens.
Othello
GargFan
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 7:14:37 pm EDT from 70.162.249.61

Gorebash: I took would have to say that the best use I can think of for that would be to MIST the Goliath Chronicles. And I don't have that many on VHS.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"In the end? Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends." -Dr. Manhattan ("Watchmen")
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 5:58:23 pm EDT from 71.62.136.51

A commentary would be a blast to do! Especially if we did a mocking one of the Goliath Chronicles. I would volunteer my voice for that and Im fairly certain my voice wont hurt anyone's ears.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 4:43:24 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Sorry for the double.

I would volunteer my services, but my voice is annoying. But seriously you guys should do this.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 4:29:57 pm EDT from 198.175.205.251

Commentary > Sounds like a good idea. It might help, and (if done well) it certainly couldn't HURT. Worst case scenario is that no one watches it and it ends up being a waste of time on the part of the people who make it, and that wouldn't be a huge tragedy or anything.

Do it.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 4:22:15 pm EDT from 198.175.205.251

@ Ozzy: Hey Oz-man, nice to see you lurking around her too
Queeny - [beelzemon_lover_2k8 at hotmail dot co dot uk]
"Well, I like a man who bring's me weapons" - Hyena, episode 2-1-1
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:49:19 pm EDT from 81.77.238.91

Yo, Caryn?
Osvaldo Abundis - [rockevergod at yahoo dot com]
"So... is anybody up for Scramble?"
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:28:17 pm EDT from 98.197.48.58

Ladon> Much as I agree with it, I think that the fact that Mr. Corbett had to write this proves my point. The concept set up by MST3K was "These movies are very, very bad so we're going to make fun of them." Yes, Rifftrax has been breaking out of this mold to a degree by taking on movies that are not entirely bad or even movies that are good. But that's just starting to take hold. For the most part, if you tell Joe Public that you're doing a commentary track for something in which you make fun of the original material, Joe Public will immediately think of MST3K and equate your source material with "cheesy movies; the worst (they) can find - la la la." So when Rifftrax does "The Dark Knight," you even have some fans of Rifftrax and the whole riffing ouvre saying that it's inappropriate because the movie is actually pretty good or because of Heath Ledger and the circumstances surrounding his death, even if none of the riffing remotely touches on that. I don't think it's impossible to do a humorous commentary for "Gargoyles," but I think whoever ended up doing it might have to go out of their way to keep people from concluding that s MST3K styled commentary for "Gargoyles" means that "Gargoyles" is bad.

As for whether we should be trying to recruit fans with this project, whatever shape it make take, I mostly agree with you. I've never been one for hard sell "recruiting" tactics because I think they end up portraying "Gargoyles" as a crusade to save something rather than a collection of enjoyable TV shows and comics. But I am in favor of letting people who might be interested know that there's this great show and comic called "Gargoyles" which they might enjoy and while I agree that it shouldn't necessarily be the first goal of a "Gargoyles" commentary, it could easily be a secondary one. At the very least, a commentary shouldn't be working at cross purposes to the idea of promoting "Gargoyles." I think a set of really fun enjoyable commentary tacks - whichever type they are - could both excite the existing fandom and help to promote the DVDs, if it's done well.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
"It has nothing to do with pods, nothing to do with people, and everything to do with hurting."
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:23:29 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

So... what's goin ON!?
Osvaldo Abundis - [rockevergod at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:20:18 pm EDT from 98.197.48.58

Crap, typo. I meant "I think we should only try to have _fun_ rather than recruit fans."
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:19:32 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Demonskrye - I don't think a humorous commentary is necessarily insulting to the source material. It can be respectful as well as uninhibited. Here's Bill Corbett on riffing The Dark Knight where talks about that very subject: http://blog.rifftrax.com/2008/12/10/dark-knight-knotes/ I think we should only try to have fan rather than recruit fans. Because if we have fun, the listeners will have fun and the fan recruitment will take care of itself.

I'd be happy to help as well (I don't want to give the impression I'm only interested if Greg is involved). One popular podcast, 'You Look Nice Today' does their thing by having everyone connect over Skype but at the same time, they locally record their own speech. Then they combine everyone's WAV files together and it sounds like everyone is in the same room regardless of their network connection and it avoids the normal Skype bandwidth hiccups in the sound quality. I have audio mixing software so I volunteer to do the final mix.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:18:10 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

COWBOY BEBOP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6zDfxZ4NcE

HELLSING
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfh4EeoFJBg

I should add that I'm actuall not that keen of anime at all. but there are many shows that have this really stylized design and are visually so thought out, it is just amazing and a pleasure to the eyes. There's so much going on there... the collours, the geometry... just amazing!!
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:07:48 pm EDT from 84.191.234.30

WAKING LIFE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2DeTet98o

WALTZ WITH BASHIR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylzO9vbEpPg

Needs no description
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sqNC5VdXRs

BOB MORANE (probably may favourite european animated show)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xk-XXBvwbs

RENAISSANCE (if you havn't seen this in theaters, you've never seen anything!!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh7s32XRScQ
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:07:39 pm EDT from 84.191.234.30

I wanted to post this last week, but the server didn't work...

So, here we go...

@ Rebel: Actually, you're kind of right... I can see where that comes from.

So, I hope loads a people with youtube accounts post the text below. :)

I should get one just to post it. *chuckles*

@ Matt: Thx man. I love this guys reviews so much. He's really spot on, and it helps me to improve my writing. His Lion King review is, whilst it is REALLY harsh, totally true.

And cool to hear you're getting your boyfriend into GARGOYLES. :) This really shows what a lasting quality it has, when people, post 9/11, who are grown adults get into this.
I was thinking about posting some reviews up on the forum too, but I guess I'll wait for a few more members and then will dive headfirst into it.

@ Demonskrye: I love animation that has got something unique to it, or something that is stylised with an overall artistic (not childish/comic-style) theme.

Let me throw some together. :)

THE WOLF BRIGADE - JIN ROH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oui3kAkUqE


Ghost in the Shell 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBVr_7I4FtE
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:07:03 pm EDT from 84.191.234.30

GARGOYLES DON'T DRIVE CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!! |:(
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:05:54 pm EDT from 84.191.234.30

Here at http://classic-diecast-cars.isgreat.org/ we specialize in catering to specific diecast car taste of vintage & classic diecast car customers. Here our specialty is Classic Diecast cars from the 1900's through the 1950's. We provide for you , highly detailed quality diecast cars that you can proudly display to your friends and family.
Trix - [adm at pupers dot net]
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:03:24 pm EDT from 195.64.140.19

Commentaries> I've been pondering this idea on and off for a while now. As I see it, there a basically four approaches you could take:

1) Straight-Up Commentary - This would be pretty much the same sort of commentary you would get on a DVD box set, with people who actually worked on the show discussing the episodes. A great starting point would be the "Deadly Force" commentary which we didn't get in favor of finishing out "Awakening". The main obstacles here would be getting the commenters - who likely all have other paying commitments - together, making the commentary proftable enough to be worth everyone's while, and finding a balance between keeping it simple enough for new fans and engaging the longtime fans. (With all due respect to everyone who worked on it, I think this is a problem the "Awakening" commentary didn't entirely solve. What bugged me most was Greg talking about story points that wouldn't be revealed until late season two. Longtime fans already know this stuff and newer fans could easily start to think "Well, I guess I don't need to watch that now.")

2) Informed Fan Commentary - Similar to the Straight-Up Commentary, but using fans who are very knowledgeable about the series instead of the actual cast and/or crew. Since fans could potentially be more willing and able to do it for free than industry professionals, there would be less concern about the commentaries making money and they could even potentially be offered for free. The challenge here is making sure that there's enough new and interesting information to win over fans and are engaging enough speakers to be worth listening to over the course of numerous half-hour episodes.

3) Casual/Personal Commentary - Rather than imparting inside information about the show, this commentary would just feature people watching the show and explaining what they personally think and feel about what they see. This doesn't necessarily have to be nothing more than "Goliath is cool," or "Ha ha! That was funny!" The commenters could point out particularly nice animation or a really good line or voice performance and, more importantly, why these elements are so good and how they contribute to the overall story working. The trick will be to make sure these people are interesting enough and provide good enough insights to why the show is good that audiences will want to hear what they have to say and won't just conclude that they can figure out all of these things just by watching the show on their own.

4) Humorous Commentary - This is more typical MST3K styled commentary, poking fun and making jokes. It's something people are familiar with, but it runs the risk of mocking the series when we're really trying to tell people how good it is. Having a sense of humor about yourself and you interests can't hurt, but do we really want the general public thinking "Gargoyles" is as deserving of mocking as "Pod People" or "I Accuse My Parents"? "The Goliath Chronicles" could be a good subject for this, but that's not really the material we want to promote so much.


I do a have a little bit of experience with this sort of thing from co-host a short lived online radio show about animation, so if anyone does seriously consider this idea, I'd be happy to help.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:45:14 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

And on the point of behind-the-scenes stories vs. just having a good time, Rifftrax.com is one of the spiritual successors to MST3K and employs the Nelson-era commentators. It's implied that the iRiffs are supposed to be funny. So a bunch of fans BS'ing would fit right in, although the real Rifftrax are written in advance. It would actually be more novel to release an iRiff that's a traditional behind-the-scenes affair. I assume they wouldn't mind, but I don't know.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:10:40 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

@ Gorebash: I pondered to do a commentary for al the EPs in this form:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOwWzFOvCq8&feature=PlayList&p=C0B14448CFB6CCD7&index=0&playnext=1

But I've not got that much time on my hands. But I'd love to do it. :) I think this way it is also OK with copyright...
Brook
ALL NEW GARGOYLES FORUM: http://gargoyles.freeforums.org/
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:10:37 am EDT from 84.191.234.30

i found this romatic video i hope it will enjoy you ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5tDAGKclGc&feature=related
giza
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:01:59 am EDT from 79.35.34.76

I've been pondering home-made commentaries for a while. I might listen to one or even participate. But I'd be most interested if Greg or some other behind-the-scenes person in there as well.

Rifftrax.com allows anyone to upload commentaries: http://www.rifftrax.com/iriffs You have to charge at least $0.75 per commentary, but it's a profit-sharing model where you're paid 50% of the purchases. I know Greg needs some payment to justify time spent working on Gargoyles, so an iRiff could be a goal once the technical process is smoothed out. Or heck, do it at the Gathering. I could help with the sound and technical aspects of it. Once completed, an iRiff would have a legitimate webhost plus a built-in audience of thousands of Rifftrax.com listeners and MST3K fans.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:01:27 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

I see on YouTube some people have put together fan commentaries for the first three episodes of Awakenings.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=CA18AB6123849C6F&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL

Is that something people would be interested in? A group could get together over something like Skype or Ventrilo and all press play on their DVDs at the same time and start going off on each episode. That would be recorded then put online as an MP3 for others.

Or is something like that just not interesting? I know the DVD commentaries I like tend to be the ones that offer behind-the-scenes stories and feels like it's just a bunch of people sitting around the screen and having a good time. I'm not certain a fan-commentary can do that.
Gorebash
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:42:49 am EDT from 207.206.236.230

Tenth?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"You know what I am? I'm just a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it!" -The Joker
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 6:20:26 am EDT from 71.62.136.51

Ninth.
Spen
"What if this wasn't a hypothetical question?"
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 5:03:39 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

8th
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 4:53:24 am EDT from 205.188.116.10

7TH! Whoo Hoo!
Algernon
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 4:18:23 am EDT from 213.94.146.189

OK (6th)Siith all the way then!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 3:36:45 am EDT from 69.54.209.20

(5th)Fifth all the way!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 3:35:47 am EDT from 69.54.209.20

I'm prime for five ;)
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 3:15:56 am EDT from 157.242.212.254

I claim the spot indicated by 2 times 2.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:09:34 am EDT from 98.20.223.64

Dang, that was me.
lonerider26
"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death you're right to say it."
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:50:39 am EDT from 24.13.158.178

Third :)
Anonymous
"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death you're right to say it."
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:47:28 am EDT from 24.13.158.178

second.
oneuke
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:11:59 am EDT from 173.51.150.108

1st, yay
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
"What is this? There's something wrong with the house! I don't like change!"- Stewie Griffin
posted @ Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:06:17 am EDT from 69.231.211.175