Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

JG > Since we're talking about a fictional race, it'd be silly for me to say that we can't compare to other fictional races. We don't even need to make them up... we could just go look at the other races in "Star Wars" or "Star Trek". However, the one thing that humans and gargoyles have in common is they evolved on planet Earth. The same environment shaped them, and though they arose from separate lineages, they converged on very similar forms (extra limbs aside) and even share some specific traits that supposedly are unique to mammals.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:48:48 pm EST from 173.88.135.205

Patrick> My sociology professor and anthropology professors professed in near unison that you cannot have a society develop without language. To most extents, yes. I disagree that it must be spoken language. Oh, and as for the "other" bipedal, tool-using, non-human races to compare gargs to, do they have to be real? :) I love making people and cultures! I have so many to compare to humans and to each other, it isn't even funny.
Jade Griffin - [jade_griffin at hotmail dot com]
"Food, food, FOOD!!" - Jade Griffin, on many occasions
posted @ Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:35:29 pm EST from 24.205.206.74

Actually, I see it another way. It's a theory of mine that, just with stone sleep evolving to hide them, they developed the skills to mimic other cultures or species as a survival mechanism. They didn't need their own language before other races or species excelled past them in that area of social networking. Where a look or gesture was fine before, or simple language sets, a complex form arose in other species. In order to either adapt to them or understand that language so they aren't killed as much, they'd likely observe and adapt to it in order to survive. Gargs are all about survival and protection.
Jade Griffin - [jade_griffin at hotmail dot com]
"Food, food, FOOD!!" - Jade Griffin, on many occasions
posted @ Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:31:20 pm EST from 24.205.206.74

Matt - "They may have lacked language, they certainly lacked clothes and few if any used weapons."

The problem with that theory is it doesn't explain why gargoyles have the brain capacity to pick up all those traits from humans so effortlessly, i.e. without evolving the brain for it first. Natural selection does not smile upon developing abilities without a hard-won reason. Gargoyles may not be humans with wings, but they have a strikingly similar level of intelligence--a level that no species on the planet has except for humans and gargoyles.

Every evolved ability comes at a price. Why do gargoyles have the capacity to think when they could be even bigger, stronger and more effective hunters with a smaller brain? Even if they didn't evolve to talk, use tools or form societies, their mental capacity before human symbiosis must have had a purpose.

According to "Born to Run" by Christopher McDougall (an unconventional book for anthropology but the most recent I've read), humans had developed their brain function because they needed to out-think animals over long distances while endurance-running them to death. Simple tracking wouldn't do. Humans had to anticipate, predict, and conceptualize an animal's behavior during the hours-long battle to cull it from the herd. That's why squishy, unimpressive humans with an unmatched ability for long-distance running had to learn to think in order to survive. So why are gargoyles, with so many natural gifts for survival, smart?
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Sun, Jan 3, 2010 10:42:52 am EST from 174.20.104.180

ROBBY> I think the fact that the humans at Wyvern were so dependant on the gargs for their safety may have actually contributed to the anti-gargoyle sentiment. I can't imagine getting their butts handed to them by Hakon only to have a pack of winged monsters save them did much for the self-esteem of Wyvern's human defenders.

Note how the instant they're out of immediate danger everyone but the Captain tries to downplay the gargoyles role in the battle...

"They fled before our arrows!"

"Who needs the gargoyles!"

Of course the human archers are deluding themselves by thinking they and alone won the battle by dint of their sheer manly awesomeness, but pride will do that to ya.
Algernon
posted @ Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:01:05 am EST from 86.40.5.148

The abominations seem to defend you well while liking them or hating them, so why adjust? Use the stupid beasts to your advantage and don't be afraid to express yourself if they won't fight back for it. Why hide what they won't destroy you for?
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:27:23 pm EST from 76.2.94.66

ROBBY BARROWS> I am countering your question with a question. Why do we, as humans, hate each other?

We cannot stand each other based on things like skin pigmentation; hair and eye color; sexual orientation; worshiping different gods; worshiping the same god, but with different prayers; living on the other side of an imaginary line; like Star Wars or Star Trek more than the other; preference for Sports teams; their education level; the kind of job they work; political party affiliation; enjoying the ice-capades...

With all that in mind, do you really expect people to open their arms and embrace something that is bigger than us, with wings, glowing eyes, fangs, talons, tails... cannot even emerge in daylight?
Greg Bishansky
Gargoyles are not humans with wings.
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:40:52 pm EST from 74.88.215.133

Gargoyles look monstrous in human eyes, are larger and stronger than humans (on the average), and certainly appear intimidating. It wouldn't be surprising that a lot of humans (especially in the superstition-prone Dark Ages) would be even more frightened of gargoyles than they would be of, say, marauding Vikings - who at least are humans and comparatively normal. (We see some of this even in the modern world, where most of the humans in New York whom the gargoyles rescue from criminals are even more afraid of the gargoyles tnan they were of the criminals.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:18:31 pm EST from 4.244.208.197

PATRICK> Keep in mind, that of the 195,000 years homo sapiens are known to have existed on this planet, we've only been living in what can be loosely called civilisation for the past ten millennia or so.

Before that we existed mainly of nomadic extended family groups roughly similar to gargoyle clans. Who's to say whether our development into complex technological societies was an inevitable consequence of our evolutionary origins or just a fluke that happened to catch on?

At any rate I think we've already explored a few reasons why gargoyles might not have followed the same path of social development humans did.
Algernon
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:18:23 pm EST from 86.40.242.118

One little question before I get to my Gargoyles one: Did anyone here see Avatar? If so, what were your thoughts and if you could, would you incorporate Pandora and everything to the Gargoyles Universe?

Now for my Gargoyles question: the Nostalgia Critic brought up an interesting point in his review of the series-why the hatred for Gargoyles when they were known in the Middle Ages? 'I know the further back in time the more intolerant people get, but why hate these guys? They're like the ultimate security force!" And he has a point, back during the Age of Gargoyles, hatred of them should have been in the minimum, as were massacres. So, why did the humans begin develope hatreds for their protectors?
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 8:06:57 pm EST from 71.83.49.166

"Gargoyles are not humans with wings."

I grow weary of this comment being used to offhandedly dismiss any theories that cite humans for comparison. Tell me of another big-brained, bipedal, tool-and-language-using animal that inhabited this planet and I will gladly include it in the discussion.

There were other species of hominid in pre-history, such as the Neanderthal, but all of them went extinct before what we would call "civilization" developed, and as such they are hardly relevant to a discussion of why gargoyles did not develop "society" while homo sapiens did.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 7:07:13 pm EST from 173.88.135.205

Hello Mr. Weisman

I'm a big fan of Spectacular Spiderman and I hope it gets renewed for at least three more seasons.

I'm starting to watch Gargoyles and I'm pretty impressed by story and characters.

I'm also a big fan of J.J Abram's Lost which is a great show.

I can't help with seeing many parallels to the shows namely the mentors with eye scars and tracking skills as well as antagonists who are very affably evil and manipulative in both shows.

I wonder if you personally know Mr. Abrams.

Another show many people that draw parallels to Gargoyles is the most recent Transformers series.
Batman21 - [aliakbar212 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 6:20:32 pm EST from 68.57.247.199

Well, gargoyles evolved a larynx much like humans, so I have to believe they formed their own kind of verbal communication that was more complex than simple grunts, growls and any other sound an animal would make. And I doubt they would only form a language because humans as I believe gargoyles and humans often avoided each other. Hell prehistoric gargoyles might have even attacked and fed on humans just as they would animals before humans evolved better defenses like spears and fire. But a gargoyle language (or languages) is an interesting notion. If they did evolve their own, what happened to it and do isolated clans still speak it?
The Barracuda
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 6:01:39 pm EST from 204.174.35.47

MATT> "Exactly. Necessity is the mother of invention, afterall. Gargoyles had no need, so they didn't invent."

Mind you that might have come back to haunt the gargs in the long run. Banging two rocks together to make sparks in an important first step on the road to things like metallurgy, including iron weapons which allowed humans to destroy gargoyles in their stone sleep to begin with.
Algernon
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 5:17:51 pm EST from 86.40.2.170

Algernon: <Why bother trying to tame fire when they can comfortably survive winter in the buff?>

Plus, I've always thought that gargoyles would be able to survive on raw meat. Most animals that have the kind of teeth gargoyles have use them for the purpose of ripping and tearing flesh.
Harvester of Eyes
Starbuck: "Can I make a suggestion that you won't like?" Apollo: "Do you make any other kind?" ("Battlestar Galactica")
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 3:31:31 pm EST from 70.177.182.14

<<Gargoyles are not humans with wings.>>

Yup, I've been saying this for years.
Greg Bishansky
Gargoyles are not humans with wings.
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:03:23 pm EST from 74.88.215.133

Whether gargoyles had languages or not before humans, the reason they didn't build cities is because they just don't live that way and probably never have. Language may have been imperitive to humans developing complex socieities, cities, nations, etc., but I don't think gargoyles with language would've neccesarily ever made that step.
Gargoyles are not humans with wings. They wouldn't always develop the same way humans have under the same conditions.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:43:26 am EST from 76.217.239.172

Language is necessary for complex societies to develop. If gargoyles did not develop language on their own but instead had to learn it by example from early humans, that would explain why there are no ruins of gargoyle civilizations predating those of humans. Gargoyles may have been like chimpanzees are today, clever creatures living in small social groups.

Of course, this might be unsettling to many gargoyles... to learn that if not for humans, they might still be communicating with only grunts and growls.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:36:46 am EST from 173.88.135.205

Exactly. Neccesity is the mother of invention, afterall. Gargoyles had no need, so they didn't invent.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:21:16 am EST from 76.217.239.172

I've often thought the reason primitive gargoyles never developed technology or civilisation was simply because they never needed too. Our Ancestors developed things like stone weapons and controlled fire was to make up for their many physical shortcomings.

On the other hand, why should gargoyles waste the painstaking time and effort needed to hammer out flint knives when they already have talons that can rip through steel? Why bother trying to tame fire when they can comfortably survive winter in the buff?
Algernon
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 9:33:48 am EST from 86.41.105.255

Oh boy, now you're gonna get me started...

Robby> I think gargates have been around for hundreds of millions of years. Thats gargates, not modern gargoyles. I agree with Patrick that for the modern species to have been around for so long unchanged seems unlikely, esspecially for a species as prone to change as gargoyles. I think 1-2 million years is reasonable for their existence as a species. Probably likewise for the gargoyle beast species.

As for what ancient gargateswere like, I guess that depends on when you are talking about. As I said, I think gargates (or at least proto-gargates) have been around for many millions of years, so there has been a lot of different forms over the eons, I'm sure. As for when they evolved wings and the stone sleep, that is hard to say. I think that the defining feature for gargates is the stone sleep ability. Proto-gargates certainly had hibernating sleep of varying degrees, but stone sleep as we know it in modern gargoyles probably was the benchmark for true gargates. According to my theories of gargate evolution, stone sleep evolved near the end of the Permian Period. Wings almost certainly evolved later according to my theories, and have been lost at least once since Greg has indicated that modern beasts may have vestigial wing bones.

Finally, gargoyle civilization and ruins. Well, I don't think any have ever existed. We've never seen any evidence of gargoyles building their own dwellings. We have seen little indication of designing their own tools. Clothes, buildings, weapons, tools, etc. of any kind used by gargoyles all seem to be human in origin. Greg has even indicated that even spoken language may be something gargoyles acquired from humans. So, before a few thousand years ago, I imagine most or all clans as living quite differently than we see today. They may have lacked language, they certainly lacked clothes and few if any used weapons. The majority of clans probably lived on mountains and cliffsides (using the natural heights to glide great distances in search of food) and made their rookeries from natural caves nearby. Why would gargoyles care to build or construct what nature has always provided them? I think it was only the alliances and interactions with humans that caused gargoyles to adopt clothes and sleeping on buildings and such.

Man, I love this stuff.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 1:46:35 am EST from 76.217.239.172

30 to 40 million years ago seems too long ago for modern gargoyles to have appeared. If they were around half a million years ago, they'd still have beaten modern humans to the party by hundreds of thousands of years.

If a sentient race had built cities half a million years ago... surprisingly little evidence would remain today. Watch "Life After People" on the History Channel.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Jan 2, 2010 12:39:28 am EST from 173.88.135.205

I've had a theory about when Gargoyles first came to be in the world. Since they are the first really sentient race, would 40 million to 30 million years ago seem about right? And if so, what were the ancient gargates like? When would they have evolved wings and their ability to turn to stone?

More to that, why didn't the Gargoyles form any civilizations of their own? Given how fast humanity did it, you'd think there'd be ruins of ancient Gargoyle cities everywhere.
Robby Barrows - [rbgecko at yahoo dot com]
SuperSaiyaMan12
posted @ Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:59:30 pm EST from 71.83.49.166

Happy New Years to everyone in here.

Since Avatar has been discussed recently, here is a fan fic someone started a couple years back and has updated today called Distorted Reality:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3952155/1/Distorted_Reality

Basically, Aang fails to save the world from the Fire Lord and ends up in a parallel world which has to suffer from The Water Empire. Aang is joined by Azula and Zuko.

While the early portions of the fanfic is an altered version of the canon episodes, certain things will happen differently. And even though some roles are reversed (Azula and Zuko filling the roles of Katara and Sokka), the characters personalities are intact.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Fri, Jan 1, 2010 8:56:53 pm EST from 71.115.241.194

Happy New Year everyone!
Beckybug
beckybug
posted @ Fri, Jan 1, 2010 2:31:49 pm EST from 71.7.116.47

Happy New Year.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:58:45 pm EST from 99.177.172.217

Happy New Year!
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Jan 1, 2010 11:15:15 am EST from 173.88.135.205

Happy New Years everybody! Ten years into the new millennium and I still don't have a flying car.
Algernon
posted @ Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:12:22 am EST from 86.41.104.75

Happy New Year!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Jan 1, 2010 9:07:21 am EST from 4.244.214.110

5th Happy New Year everyone
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 1, 2010 5:32:12 am EST from 92.14.249.192

Fourth, and happy New Year!
Spen
posted @ Fri, Jan 1, 2010 4:47:14 am EST from 66.43.205.35

From Phoenix, AZ . . . Happy New Years!!!

Oh, and in the latest on the TSS-M, yesterday Disney officially got Marvel:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100101/ap_on_en_mo/us_disney_marvel_entertainment
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Jan 1, 2010 2:03:11 am EST from 70.190.65.34

Second! (Should we do a new year countdown?)

Happy 2010, everybody!
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:53:15 am EST from 71.204.227.228

Happy New Year and New Decade!
Purplegoldfish
posted @ Fri, Jan 1, 2010 12:33:52 am EST from 64.148.26.159

Happy New year everyone *Hugs & Handshakes all round*
And a big thankyou to Gorebash for the giving us this place to have fun in.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Dec 31, 2009 9:43:30 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

Happy New Year Everyone!
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Dec 31, 2009 8:17:31 pm EST from 75.159.239.62

Happy Hogmanay, everyone! 2009's almost over (may even have ended in some parts of the world), the year that saw the last Gathering (but a great one, by all reports), the revelation that Duval and Percival/Peredur aren't the same guy after all, the first on-stage appearances by Duval, Peredur, Blanchefleur, the Holy Grail, Katana, Nashville, Fu-Dog, and Fiona Canmore, a new set of Shakespearean characters in the Gargoyles Universe, and the gargoyles meeting everyone's favorite web-slinging wall-crawler (if unofficially). Let's hope for a great 2010!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Dec 31, 2009 6:49:55 pm EST from 4.244.209.85

Thought I'd post since I tweeted it: Congrats to the pervs at Blue Mug Productions on finishing the 1st issue of Last Tengu in Paris! They've already started issue #2: http://www.bluemugproductions.com/
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter feed]
posted @ Thu, Dec 31, 2009 5:27:56 pm EST from 216.70.32.162

Andrea> Granted, it's obvious what occured at the Boiling Rock had an effect on her, but that change just seemed to have appeared overnight.

Actually, The Southern Raiders does set her madness up. Look at the end of Day of Black Sun Part 2. She was perfectly content to wait for The Gaang to show up, whereas in TSR she impulsively pursued them.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Thu, Dec 31, 2009 4:08:34 pm EST from 71.115.241.194

The Avatar series is certainly the best animated series to come along since Gargoyles-in strength of Characters, storyline & animation. A very well done series. We're now just starting to get a version of Nickelodeon here in Canada (they can't just simply bring in the US feed, nooo, they have to recreate the channel and Canadianize it IE add Canadian Shows to the lineup). Anyway. One of the things the local cable company offers is an "On demand" feature, where you can watch programs when you want using your digital box. Anyway, They're offering several eps of Avatar on the YTV "On Demand" channel. Thought that was kinda cool. Now if we could only get someone to do that with Gargs(especially the eps that aren't on DVD yet).
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Dec 31, 2009 2:23:28 pm EST from 99.245.254.123

RE All the Avatar stuff cause I'm too damn lazy to quote (has a post yesterday that I never finished for the same reason).

I too wish The Day of Black Sun had more obbvious consequences. Considering the buildup that went into it, it ended up as kind of a let down. Of course it was never meant to overshadow Sozin's Comet, but I really expected something more out of it, even if only in a flashback later on (I seriously was waiting on that scene where Iroh kicked the crap out of everyone in his breakout, and we never got any more on that).

Sozin's Comet...yeah, calling Deus Ex Machina on that ending. While I do think they at least found an interesting "out" to get rid of Ozai (I knew from day 1 that they couldn't get away with killing him per S & P, and I am glad they did explicitly state it while still keeping everything in character, but I figured he'd fall prey to the classic 'accidental fall off a cliff' death), I felt it was really rushed.

At least there was some buildup to that though, compared to Azula's downfall. Granted, it's obvious what occured at the Boiling Rock had an effect on her, but that change just seemed to have appeared overnight. If there had been some indication prior to that episode that she had some internal issues, I might be willing to buy it in the end, but I feel they just pulled it out of their ass as a quick and easy way to eliminate the threat she posed.

Anyway, I still love the series and all, btu I wish season 3 had a little less filler and more important plot so the ending didn't end up looking so thrown together last minute. The fight scenes were incredible though, but the end just let me with more questions than answers. Not that I thought it was BAD, mind you, I just thought it could have been planned out a little better.

BTW, Toph is on my list of personal favorite animated characters of all time.
Andrea - [SailorV77 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 31, 2009 9:13:27 am EST from 24.41.18.162

"The Eclipse plot-line had to go down like that, because if it had gone off without a hitch for our heroes, they would have won way too easily. I mean, they defeat the Fire Nation at the time their bending isn't working? How anti-climatic would that have been? Not to mention it would have made Ozai and Azula look incompetent."

Sure, but having some success is not the same as going off without a hitch. I just felt that anything that had been built up for so long should have had a greater impact on the storyline. Aside from Zuko's switch, which had very little to do with the eclipse, the next episodes went on almost as though the huge battle royale didn't even happen. And it didn't have to simply be an instant win. There were other places it could have gone. One intriguing speculation (back during the never-ending episode delays) was that Ozai is defeated, but then Azula and Zuko make rival claims for the throne, and the rest of the season deals with a Fire Nation civil war. I'm not saying that that's the way it had to go; I'm just saying I wish the Day of Black Sun had had more long-term significance.

"If it was anti-climatic, that's because it wasn't the climax. Sozin's Comet was. The Eclipse was that "holy shit, this was our best chance to win, now what they hell are we going to do?" moment."

But that seemed like a rehash to me. They'd already had what seemed their best chance pulled out from under them in Crossroads of Destiny, when Azula staged the coup in Ba Sing Se. That was the downer ending (and reminded me a lot of Empire Strikes Back- Aang leaves his guru (Yoda) to save his friends from a danger he sees in a vision, but is crippled and barely escapes alive- plus, Iroh frozen in carbonite). Having another big chance spoiled seemed like just piling on. Again, I'm not saying they had to win, just that it should have changed the status quo more than it did. We hadn't seen most of the characters who were captured, so their absence didn't seem all that significant.

"Now, do I have some issues with how "Sozin's Comet" went down? Sure. But I thought it would have been even more of a deus ex machina if the Eclipse was it... if that's even possible."

So, I'm guessing one of your main issues was the lion-turtle that came out of nowhere? And while I liked the major bending fights, and the White Lotus counter-invasion, you have to wonder why the Fire Nation air force's security was so lax that three kids, only one of whom was a bender, were able to take them down.

Again, though, it's one of my favorite shows, and my praise is great while my criticism is minor.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 31, 2009 12:21:25 am EST from 71.204.227.228

BRAINIAC - So that's why the exiled human who was helped by the tengu had two names, differing from each other, in the different sources. Kind of like Setanta and Cuchulain, or (far more recently) Estel and Aragorn. I'd been wondering about that; thanks for explaining it.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Dec 30, 2009 6:43:50 pm EST from 4.244.212.194

*looks away from writing, at the mention of Crossovers*

Power Rangers and Gargoyles, eh? Might have been something I would've attempted a few years ago.

After all, I did do a SWATKats/Gargs crossover, and a Rescue Rangers/Gargoyles story too.
Stephen Sobotka
"I believe everyone does what they do with good intentions in mind. No one ever wakes up one morning and says 'I'll be a villan' today.'."
posted @ Wed, Dec 30, 2009 4:50:51 pm EST from 173.78.77.125

Power Rangers/Gargoyles Crossover: Well if that's the case I don't think I'll podt the link to that crossover here. ;)
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 30, 2009 2:44:14 pm EST from 69.54.209.24

A Power Rangers/Gargoyles crossover.

*pauses*

No. Just... no. That would suck.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Wed, Dec 30, 2009 2:07:04 pm EST from 99.177.172.217

JURGAN> The Eclipse plot-line had to go down like that, because if it had gone off without a hitch for our heroes, they would have won way too easily. I mean, they defeat the Fire Nation at the time their bending isn't working? How anti-climatic would that have been? Not to mention it would have made Ozai and Azula look incompetent.

If it was anti-climatic, that's because it wasn't the climax. Sozin's Comet was. The Eclipse was that "holy shit, this was our best chance to win, now what they hell are we going to do?" moment.

There are five aspects of a novel. Introduction; rising action; complication; climax; and denouement. The Eclipse was the complication. Actually, I'd argue, the end of season two all the way to the Eclipse was the complication.

Now, do I have some issues with how "Sozin's Comet" went down? Sure. But I thought it would have been even more of a deus ex machina if the Eclipse was it... if that's even possible.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Wed, Dec 30, 2009 11:39:19 am EST from 74.88.215.133

Todd Jensen: Ah, the legend of Minamoto no Yoshitsune (Ushiwaka-maru in childhood). The Tale of the Heike (of which he is but a part) in a Japanese epic that has always intrigued me, as has the sekai (similar to literary cycle) of Yoshitsune. As far as Gargoyles incorporation, it would definitely make sense for TimeDancer. It would also be interesting to see the origin of the term "tengu" since it's actually a borrowed word from Chinese meaning "heavenly dogs." Sounds more like garg beasts, doesn't it?

Jurgan: There are a couple of low-quality one-shot Gargoyles Abridged videos on YouTube but you might actually want to check out EvilChicken25's videos; there are three eps so far adapting the first three parts of Awakening and Part 4 is in the works (according to the Christmas Special). Since you're not starting with Awakening, you should be able to co-exist nicely.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Wed, Dec 30, 2009 9:09:38 am EST from 192.44.136.113

PHOENICIAN - I found the story about the tengus' mentoring Ushiwaka in three different books (all of them overviews of mythical creatures, so it was only summarized in each one, unfortunately):

"Magical Beasts" (part of the Time-Life "Enchanted World" series)
"The Mythic Bestiary" by Tony Allan
"Fabulous Beasts" by Peter Lum

This should give you something to start with, and might lead you to works that I haven't found yet that cover the legend in more detail. And I'd also wondered whether Ushiwaka might have some connection to Ishimura, once I began seriously thinking about that tale in the context of the Gargoyles Universe.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Dec 30, 2009 7:24:14 am EST from 4.244.213.77

H.I: I've found that it's usually easier to ask a question here than it is in ASK GREG, since I've had difficulty navigating it myself. So long as the question can be understood, i.e., punctuation is utilized.

And also, I'd rather not think about the Power Rangers and Gargoyles universes having anything in common.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
Punctuation is your friend. Punctuation will not bite you and throw you in the basement.
posted @ Wed, Dec 30, 2009 6:33:03 am EST from 76.27.173.29

Tengu Legend: Todd, anywhere specific I could go take a look into this tale about the Taira and Minamoto clans? When I finally get through Dante, I'd love the chance to read up on this tale d:

Guess you can count me in as someone who'd appreciate hearing stories of Ishimura's past . . . not just for the possible inclusion of the above legend, but just for the general background of how Ishimura managed to have, arguably, a more successful and lasting relationship with their human neighbors than, say, those in the British Isles.

But especially if something like the above legend occurred, cause what little history we know in the Gargoyles Universe suggests that (in ancient times at least) whenever gargoyles side with one particular human clan, they only make more enemies for themselves in the long scheme of things
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible . . . I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Dec 30, 2009 1:38:57 am EST from 70.190.65.34

H.I.> Of the thousands upon thousands of ways Power Rangers and Gargoyles are incompatible, you choose the existence of a minor race of creatures that has no overall significance.

I'm very curious about how you've managed to survive.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Wed, Dec 30, 2009 1:10:37 am EST from 76.2.94.66

I'll take some time out from the Avatar music video I'm working on to rave about how much I love Avatar. I think it was someone in this comment room a while back who got me to look into it, and I was hooked almost immediately. It's certainly my favorite animated series since Gargoyles (with the possible exception of a few Japanese series). Toph is my favorite character, just because she's so much fun, but they're all great. I agree that the third season was the weakest. In particular, it felt like [SPOILER] the solar eclipse plotline was anticlimactic- they built to it for two whole seasons, and while the two-parter had terrific action, it amounted to very little (aside from Zuko's switch). [/SPOILER] And "The Beach" was just an awful episode all around ("You can't have your characters just say how they feel! That makes me feel angry!"). But the series remained a great show all the way through.

Speaking of videos- I just, within the last week, pulled together the software to do video editing, and I'm having a lot of fun with it. I've got a number of ideas, but here's the main one: I'm working on Gargoyles: The Abridged Series. I don't know how much you know about abridged series, but it's a pretty popular thing these days (click my name for an excellent example), and I figured our fandom deserves one. So far, I've got a first draft of "The Edge" recorded (I decided not to start with Awakening, as a five-parter is a bit too much to tackle for my first effort). I probably need to redo some of the voicetracks, but it's very far along. I'll be sure to share when I get it ready for presentation.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 30, 2009 12:13:56 am EST from 71.204.227.228

well i just thought about since disney hoped gargoyles would outdo power rangers but now that disney owns both franchises i thought maybe the irony would be that they'd consider putting them together, of course i could be wrong or not!
H.I
H.I
posted @ Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:34:46 pm EST from 67.167.12.162

H.I> If there is a God in Heaven, such a crossover will never, ever exist. And considering that "Power Rangers" is what killed "Gargoyles", you'll forgive me if I don't want to invite the murder to breathe in the same vicinity.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:11:53 pm EST from 74.88.215.133

in power rangers (which disney also owns right now) the tengus are bird like creatures, this'll be hard to explain if they ever do a power rangers/gargoyles crossover.
H.I
H.I
posted @ Tue, Dec 29, 2009 11:03:58 pm EST from 67.167.12.162

Glad to see Station 8 is back up.

Todd> That's a cool story and I think it'd fit perfectly into Gargoyles. We'll have to wait and see though.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'
posted @ Tue, Dec 29, 2009 10:44:34 pm EST from 70.230.158.185

I was going to post this piece this morning, but Station 8 was down then (I don't know why yet), so I had to wait until now.

I was recently reading about a Japanese legend involving the tengu (a race of mythical winged beings, whom we now know from "Bad Guys" to be equated with Japanese gargoyles in the Gargoyles Universe). In feudal Japan (apparently during the 12th century) there was a war between two noble clans, named Taira and Minamoto. The Taira clan got the upper hand, slew the Minamoto leader, conquered his clan's lands, and banished his young son, variously called Ushiwaka or Yoshitsune, to a remote monastery. The youth longed to free his clan from the Taira and recover their ancient fortunes, but saw no means of achieving this until he met the tengu, and studied the arts of the warrior (presumably Bushido) under them. Through their tutoring, he became so skilled a warrior that he was at last able to defeat the Taira and restore the Minamoto clan.

Now, since we know that, in the Gargoyles Universe, tengu are Japanese gargoyles, this suggests that Ushiwaka was another human who made an alliance with gargoyles, like Prince Malcolm and Macbeth in Scotland, half a world away. I wonder whether Greg Weisman might work that story into any future "Gargoyles" tales involving the Ishimura clan and its forebears - maybe, when Brooklyn comes to feudal Japan during his TimeDancing to meet Katana, he arrives during the time that Ushiwaka is studying with her clan. It would fit the "Gargoyles" tone of incorporating real legends and history into the gargoyles' story.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Dec 29, 2009 6:57:35 pm EST from 4.244.215.190

Beckybug> You DID read the NEW SEASON in the comics, right?
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Dec 29, 2009 12:04:02 am EST from 75.159.239.62

i wish the Gargoyles series would come back on maybe a new season?
Beckybug
beckybug
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 10:55:08 pm EST from 71.7.116.47

On that note: http://www.nick.com/shows/nick_mag/nicktoon_comics/index.jhtml

This site as mentioned in the link are for Nicktoon Comics which Nick uploaded. For those who don't have the magazine I mentioned, the following three Avatar comics bridge the gap between Crossroads of Destiny and The Awakening:

1. It's Only Natural
2. Going Home Again
3. The Bridge
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 9:22:26 pm EST from 71.115.241.194

I was incredibly impressed by Avatar. I didn't see, or make it a point to see, every episode, but the animation was some of the best I've seen and the story was fantastic. Gives me hope for something better than a lot of the crap being churned out lately. I'd consider picking the series up if they release a full series set.
The Barracuda
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 9:00:21 pm EST from 204.174.35.47

H.I.>

1. No continuations have been announced at this point. To ensure we get one, the couple volumes of Clan Building and the Bad Guy trades need to sell well enough.

2. I'm not entirely sure about what you want to ask him in regards to Kingdom Hearts, but I believe he expressed interest in having the Gargoyles cast in the games.

Given though that the games are a showcase for the movie (and the fact that the show isn't widely recognized), I don't see them making any KH appearances.

If you're hoping to give him some ideas, well that is unallowed in order for Greg to protect himself from possible lawsuits.

Algernon> As for Avatar TLA, I watched it sparingly during the first two seasons, came aboard regularly with the 3rd Season Premieres. Caught up with the library DVDs, and purchased my own sets around the end of 2008.

I also lucked into finding a copy of the Avatar magazine which has some comic stories set inbetween Season 2 and 3.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 8:59:55 pm EST from 71.115.241.194

Avatar: The Last Airbender >> Awesome series! I need to buy it on DVD one of these days...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>^^)> I got a job as a video game tester~!!!
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 7:51:32 pm EST from 72.199.81.32

where in the archives there's just so many places, can you tell me where? also yes as much we hope for it to come back gargoyles is not coming back for now hopefully it will, and i pray it will one day!
H.I
H.I
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 7:47:06 pm EST from 67.167.12.162

Algernon> Avatar is delicious. Eastern art with Western storytelling? YES PLEASE.

H.I.>Check the archives. Also, grammar handbook.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 7:34:02 pm EST from 76.2.94.66

i was just asking because those words confused me to know is gargoyleant okay? i just wnt to know is gargoyles back? and was he referncing that film, if that offended anyone i'm sorry i didn't mean to, really i'm sorry. please forgive me. and if so just answer my other question if there's another way i can ask greg about my kingdom hearts thing?
H.I
H.I
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 7:21:04 pm EST from 67.167.12.162

ALGERNON> Yes, saw it for the first time in September. Terrific series. I thought there were some missteps at the very end, but overall, it was quality.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 7:16:58 pm EST from 74.88.215.133

Well in the interest of stirring up some conversation, I was wondering if we had any Avatar: The Last Airbender fans in the room? Recently I got the chance to see the whole series for the first time, and it easily ranks up there with Gargoyles and Spectacular Spider-Man as one of my favourite animated series of all time.
Algernon
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 7:13:05 pm EST from 86.41.120.102

H.I.>HOW IS BABBY FORMED? HOW GIRL GET PREGNAT?
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 6:56:59 pm EST from 76.2.94.66

and vicky uk what do you mean by and away we go with the show did they bring it back finally or something? i'm just asking?
H.I
H.I
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 6:54:33 pm EST from 67.167.12.162

well is there a better way to ask it, or for now there's nothing we can ask about gargoyles appearing in kingdom hearts unless it'll be confirmed? also greg bishanski when you said nein nein nein where you referencing that new tarantino film?
H.I
H.I
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 6:52:52 pm EST from 67.167.12.162

H.I. - I think that Greg would consider much of your question an idea masquerading as a question - not to mention that it's so much of a hypothetical situation (since "Gargoyles" isn't even appearing in "Kingdom Hearts") that it wouldn't attract his interest.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 6:47:18 pm EST from 4.244.211.78

I wonder if Gargoyles makes it into Kingdom Hearts, how would the Quarrymen react to the heartless and the nobodies, would they try to gain control of them and use them to destroy the gargoyles or like with the space spawn in the mainstream gargoyles universen 2198 i they won't care much for them but their main target will still be the Gargfoyles, maybe they'll even blame the gargoyles for their apppearance also, i should ask greg maybe?
H.I
H.I
posted @ Mon, Dec 28, 2009 6:17:17 pm EST from 67.167.12.162

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