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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending October 4, 2010

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I don't post here very often, but it always brings a smile to my face for some reason when I pop in and see people are still having deep discussions about Gargoyles.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard

For the filthy rich, sometimes "Because I can" is reason enough for doing things that cost outrageous sums of money. Why move a castle from Scotland and put it on top of a NYC skyscraper? Why own an Italian sports car costing half a million dollars? Why colorize classic black and white movies? Why host a reality show where you can fire people on TV every week?
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

BRIAN> The thing about "Gargoyles" is that you need to banish the words "good" and "evil" from your vocabulary when we're discussing it and especially a character like Xanatos. Demona too, for that matter.

It's much more complicated than that. Which is one of the reasons I think so many people find the show fascinating. This isn't GI Joe vs Cobra, or the Autobots vs the Decepticons. This show isn't black and white. It's all shades of gray. Just like real life often is, way more often than not.

Greg Bishansky

Agree guys, but in the end of the second season he said the fight between him and the gargoyles it's over both to the gargoyles and Elisa. But he was lying right? how a character like him could pass from evil to good in a so few time(the time between episodes 2-44 and 2-52 are not so long), that is impossible. He is so hungry of avidity and immortality, he saved the gargoyles principaly for his advantage: he help them and then they do what he ask, and what he ask it is not good. I think this is it what will happen if it will be a 'Clan Building volume 3' or 'C.B.V. 4'; and we have to remember the Illuminati are agree with him about the gargoyles(ecxept Castaway that he doesn't know nothing about that).
And so Xanatos will be not a good ally for Goliath and his friends, while now all humanity knows about them. Maybe, after discovered Xanatos wanted used them again, they will have no choice to find an other refuge where they can sleep at the day.
Well, sorry for my english.

Brian Bartoccini

It is a good thing Xanatos spent the money neccesary to awaken the Clan. If he hadn't he would've never had the oppurtunity to make his fortune in the first place... although I guess he didn't know that at the time.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"But what do you call each other?" "'Friend...'" - Tom and Brooklyn, "Awakening, Part One"

PAUL> I think the series was pretty clear that Xanatos was looking to get himself some gargoyle bodyguards. Almost all his schemes in the first ans second seasons revolved around either bringing the Manhattan Clan under control or creating a satisfactory substitute, i.e. the Steel Clan, the mutates, Thailog.
Algernon
Make a REAL "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

Actually, that's a good question: What did Xanatos (hope to) gain by breaking the Magus' spell on the gargoyles?

Did he do it as a favor to Demona, hoping that she would share the secret of her immortality in exchange? While he does want immortality, that sort of plan seems uncharacteristic of Xanatos.

Owen was quick to remind him that buying Castle Wyvern and transporting it to the top of the Eyrie Building in New York was a costly endeavor, so Xanatos had to have a good reason to spend so much money.

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

There is something wrong, well I repeat: I did not understand, after reading Gargwikipedia about Xanatos, how Xanatos made sure to be possibly to understande that he saved the M. clan principaly for his advantages.
I know I have to write this question before, and I hope my english it is understandable. Sorry guys.

Brian Bartoccini

Guys, I did not understand a thing: how Xanatos made sure that he saved the gargoyles principally for his advantage? (I know I had to make this question before).
Brian Bartoccini

Hey, I like the grammatical Latin nonsense.

Granted, it bugs me that they used "omnes conspecti, omnes auditi," which literally means "all who have been seen, all who have been heard," but I'd better stop now before I go off on a tirade.

I can pardon the grammatical inconsistencies in the "summon Puck" and "teleport to Avalon" spells, though, since even the ancient Romans had trouble turning "proper" grammatical Latin into poetry, and their poetry didn't even rhyme.

The above... isn't a tirade... is it?

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Brian> I took Latin for three years back in high school . . . Gargoyles was actually my initial reason for taking up the language, as I wanted to see if the Latin featured in the show actually made any sense (it was back in the days when I didn't know of Ask Greg nor of Greg Weisman's consistent efforts to research anything necessary for sake of making a fun and smart story).

Now, its been quite a few years since my last lesson, but I still have my books with me, so you guys can decide if my opinion on this holds any water (I recently re-watched My Cousin Vinny today with the family, lol).

***Fair Warning . . . a ridiculous amount of grammatical Latin nonsense to follow. You have been warned d:***

fulminos venite in the grammatical sense breaks down to two words with venite being the easier word to start with. Its ease in translation most likely comes from its part in the famous Julius Caesar phrase veni, vidi, vici ("I came, I saw, I conquered"). There its form is the first-person Perfect (past) Tense. Anyways, in the show its form is the plural Imperative from the verb venire meaning "to come" (my class always identified verbs with the infinitive, as opposed to the first-person singular). This makes sense as its verb-conjugation is meant for commands and lightning is typically considered plural (otherwise we'd add the word 'bolt' to it). Granted, the Archmage aims one bolt at a time, but I'd let it slide (for Spectacular Spider-man fans, I seem to recall multiple bolts whenever Mysterio said it d: ).

Fulminos on the other hand is trickier . . . my own Latin/English dictionaries list 'lightning' in Latin to be fulmin, a noun meaning "lightning that descends and strikes everything; a thunderbolt." As Fulmin is a noun, then its simply a matter of deciding which declension its designated in.

According to my dictionary, fulmen is evidently a neuter word. As it also lacks the typical first declension -a and the second declension -us endings, its not that unreasonable to conclude the word to be third declension (which can be masculine, feminine, or neuter) and thus in proper grammatical context the word would likely be spelt fulmina compared to what we hear the Archmage say (personally I hear fulminos . . . fulminUS would have a distinctly different sound in my ear).

But consider for a moment that getting into the grammar of all this spell-casting is really quite nit-picky. Remember, all things are true, few things are accurate, and in the subject of grammar and spellcasting, I can only wonder what is necessary in a spellcaster's pronunciation of the words that makes the phrase an incantation and not just a phrase coming from a geek versed (not fluent) in language.

So yeah, fulimina venite would likely be the correct grammatical context . . . but just as deslagrate muri tempi et intervalia (the spell to ignite the Phoenix Gate) should really grammatically be deflagrate muros temporis et intervalia (I won't even dare getting into this one in the same post), I don't worry or think about the inconsistencies too much, even when I (now) know the proper grammar behind it.

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Brian> Obviously, any of us can have grammatical difficulties when dealing with a foreign language...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"But what do you call each other?" "'Friend...'" - Tom and Brooklyn, "Awakening, Part One"

And about the Archmage; there is here who knows by chance latin language?
Well, in 'Long way to morning', He said 'Fulminus Venite'.
Grammatical is wrong, and it is not 'fulminus' but 'fulmen'.
'Venite', from 'venio'(to come) is imperative in the plural; while 'fulminus'(and I remeber you it doesn't exist in latin) is singular. He had to say 'fulmines venite'.
To confirm, find out.

Brian Bartoccini

In addition to the upcoming reprint of Boom's Darkwing Duck comic issues, Boom will also be producing a reprint of the older DW comics: http://www.boom-kids.com/darkwing-duck-classics-vol-1-tpb.html
Antiyonder

The last post got me thinking what other items in the vault have a story to tell. It is a little confusing when u talk about Timedancer and Dark Ages comics it is purely hypothetical? Something interesting about Bad Guys series is there have been posts that lead us to believe the Manhattan clan would have a run in with the Bad Guy crew. If timelines are concurrent this would mean that Yama would encounter an expanded clan with Kitana a member. How would that play out would battle members of his own clan? With so many story lines to explore and such an expansive universe I wish someone would make a guide to the different plots and time lines
dres - [escodr3s at yahoo dot com]
Dres

BISHANSKY - Which I already mentioned, a few posts down. :)

Greg Weisman recently put paid to one of my speculations. I noticed that the Illuminati treasury in "Bad Guys" included, among other things, a shield (clearly belonging to a medieval knight, judging by its shape) with a picture of a swan on it. That caught my eye because in Roger Lancelyn Green's "King Arthur and his Knights", one of Greg's leading Arthurian sources, Percival and Blanchefleur have a son named Loherangrin, born to them after they become the new rulers of Carbonek at the end of the Grail Quest. Loherangrin (better known as "Lohengrin") appears in medieval legend as the Knight of the Swan, who comes from the Grail Castle to champion a young lady in peril and afterwards marries her, but on the condition that she never asks him where he's from. She finally breaks the ban and asks him, to learn that he was sent from the Grail Castle to aid her, but can only stay in the outside world as long as nobody asks him where he's from; once she did so, he had to return to the Grail Castle and never see her again. (Wagner wrote an opera about it; it's generally considered to be not up to his later ones like the Ring Cycle, though it's the source of the tune "Here Comes the Bride".)

I'd speculated that the shield in the Illuminati treasury could be Loherangrin/Lohengrin's (after all, his parents in Green are upper-echelon Illuminati members in "Gargoyles") - and it's even tempting to see his mission as an example of an early Illuminati operation (in the days before it became increasingly corrupt - but already having to be a secret society). I couldn't ask Greg about this directly, of course, but I decided to ask him if the shield was his idea or Karine's. He replied that it was Karine's, so the shield's device must be just a coincidence (unless Karine was inspired by Lohengrin's ties to Percival and Blanchefleur - and even then, it's not the same thing).

(I'll confess I'm also curious about one of the objects in the treasury bearing a slight resemblance to the TARDIS.)

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1 at mindspring dot com]

I think Greg said something about the two Archmages going to other time periods besides just 995, 1020, and 1995. Originally he wanted to have the future Archmage showing the past Archmage how technology had eclipsed magic, but those scenes had to be cut due to time constraints.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Todd> I think it might've been kinda cool to have our POV, the "camera" go through the Phoenix flame with Goliath and the Archmage+. Since I doubt they would've been in any time period for more than a couple seconds we would join them in the flame and the backgrounds would change from other places/times to Avalon in the present.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"But what do you call each other?" "'Friend...'" - Tom and Brooklyn, "Awakening, Part One"

TODD> His older self told him. There, solved! ;)
Greg Bishansky

MATT - Yes. (Greg even mentioned something in his ramble on "Avalon Part Three" - I think; I'll have to reread it - that they thought of showing the Archmage and Goliath in different time periods during this scene, but there wasn't room for it, or something like that.)

Though it wouldn't solve the "how does the Archmage know about modern technology?" question, since the big confrontation happens after the Archmage time loop (for both Archmages).

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1 at mindspring dot com]

I always wonder about the numerous time jumps the Archmage+ and Goliath made together when Goliath was trying to rip the Eye of Odin off his head.I believe Greg has said that they may have gone several places/times, but that Goliath never let go. The episode supports this as the would dissapear in the flame and reappear in a totally different pose.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"But what do you call each other?" "'Friend...'" - Tom and Brooklyn, "Awakening, Part One"

The hypothetical unrecorded side-trip in "Avalon Part Two" *could* explain the enhanced Archmage's remarks about the modern human world being "a place of science rather than sorcery, with weapons as powerful as any magic" - it's difficult to figure out how he could have known that, with all his time in the present-day (so far as we know) on Avalon (though he did see Demona and Macbeth equipped with high-tech weaponry).

Of course, as I've said before, there's also the possibility that the Archmage didn't actually *know* about the advances in human technology over the past thousand years, but said it because he'd already heard himself say it, that it was all part of the time loop.

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1 at mindspring dot com]

GREG B> I'm pretty sure Mr. Weisman's already confirmed Super-Archmage will show up in Timedancer at least once. Presumably, he made a little side trip at some point during the Avalon saga.
Algernon
Make a REAL "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

<<Do you think in the comic books we will see the Archmage again(besides DARK AGES)?>>

Barring a "TimeDancer" appearance, probably not. He is dead.

<<A new fights between Xanatos and the Manhattan clan(we now Xanatos want to use them for his objecitves, after they are now on his castle)?>>

Didn't we see this in the comics?

<<And Demona, will we see new fights between her and Goliath and his clan?>>

I think this is a no-brainer.

<<Will she finally find a clan that could be agree with her to destroy humanity and where she could be their leader?>>

Only Weisman knows, and I don't think he'd spoil it.

Greg Bishansky

Hello guys, how are you?
I have some question and I hope to not be too annoying: I saw, recently, a lot of Gargoyles episodes on youtube. Do you think in the comic books we will see the Archmage again(besides DARK AGES)? A new fights between Xanatos and the Manhattan clan(we now Xanatos want to use them for his objecitves, after they are now on his castle)?
And Demona, will we see new fights between her and Goliath and his clan? Will she finally find a clan that could be agree with her to destroy humanity and where she could be their leader?
Well, I hope my english it is understandable, and I hope to be not too annoying for you.
Bye Bye

Brian Bartoccini

Todd> I couldn't get onto the site for most of yesterday morning, though all other websites were loading fine. So I'm guessing it is/was an issue with Station 8.
Demonskrye - [<---"When The Wind Blows" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

I had trouble accessing this website last morning, actually. Only later in the day I could come here. Every other website I visit was fine, though.
Daniel B
"Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:5)

Has anyone else been having trouble reaching this site for the past day or so? I've been having problems reaching it, as well as several other Internet sites, and I don't know whether the problem is at my end or theirs.
Todd Jensen

ASIFA is hosting a "Disney Television Animation Reunion and Panel" in Burbank tomorrow: http://www.asifa-hollywood.org/upcoming_events.html No Greg but there are a lot of other folks from that era on the panel.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

I was just reading over Greg's latest responses, including the one where he comments on how the casting on Murder, She Wrote usually made it fairly obvious who the killer was: the biggest name guest start who didn't get killed in the beginning. This can very on similar shows, depending on how formula-reliant they are, but if a pretty big name star shows up on one of the CSIs or Law and Orders, it's usually a safe bet that they're either the killer or at least more important than they initially seem to be. Thinking about this reminded me of one amusing exception to this rule: Kevin Smith's cameo on Law and Order. Kevin Smith does not play the killer, a character who is initially suspected of being the killer, or really anyone with a strong connection to the case. Kevin Smith plays one of the characters who shows up, gives the detectives some bit of information that gets them to the next step in their investigation, and is never seen again. I like to think that Kevin Smith requested that his part be small, as it's much more entertaining to see a name star show up on Law and Order, expect him to play a major role, and then discover that he's just a minor character than to have the star predictably turn out to be the killer.
Demonskrye - [<---"When The Wind Blows" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Happy birthday, Greg!
Gargoyles Movie - [Rebel (trying to help with Google bombing)]

Also Happy Belated Birthday Greg! Yer not forgotten on your special day (I'm just slow, as usual). So you're 47. I'm only 2 1/2 years behind you. Will be 45 in February *cringe*. Make it stop! make it STOP! ^_~
Wingless

...and a happy belated birthday to Mr. Weisman!!! ^_^

Back to lurking I go...

The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>X_X)> Transferring 394 GB of data is way too time consuming... That was 9 hours not really well spent...

Happy birthday, Greg! A day late.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1 at mindspring dot com]

Something interesting just recently happened. It's unrelated to Gargoyles, but the situation it similar to Gargoyles in a way. Just last night, Capcom announced that they were making a Megaman Legends 3 for the upcoming handheld system 3DS.

What's interesting about this is that the last installment of the series was released over 10 years ago, and despite critical acclaim and being a great game, it didn't sell very well, and thus from a marketing standpoint could not be continued. (I don't know the full details, this is just what I've gathered) Fans of the series have been constantly asking for a Megaman Legends 3 for years and years, and finally we are now getting one.

The situation seemed very similar to Gargoyles. A series that fans loved but was stopped early on? Avid fans waiting 10+ years for a next installment, even getting it's own abridged series in the process? I know the markets are completely different, but it's given me hope that Gargoyles could always one day return.

Daniel B
"Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:5)

Happy B-Day Mr. Weisman! May you have many many many many many more!
Algernon
Make a REAL "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

Is it true? today is it Mr. Weisman's Birthday?
So, a very great happy birthday Mr. Weisman.
And God bless you.

Brian Bartoccini

Happy (belated) Birthday, Greg!

Greg's Green Arrow short was released yesterday on the Superman/Batman: Apocalypse DVD/Blu-ray. Toonzone doesn't like the unrelated main feature but calls the short "fleet, smart, highly characterized, and suggestive of a story larger than what is actually put on screen." http://www.toonzone.net/news/articles/35218/supermanbatman-apocalypse-just-plain-hell The Green Arrow short will be re-released in a DC shorts collection in November.

Greg and Brandon Vietti will appear at a Young Justice panel with new video at the New York Comic-Con on Saturday, October 9th: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=861 The press release also says that Young Justice will premiere with a 1-hour special in November and the series will continue after that in 2011.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Oh, Happy Birthday Greg! :) Sorry I'm a bit late.
Daniel B
"Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:5)

Here I am thinking to myself ALL day long: "It's the 28th of September . . . why do I think that's worth knowing?" . . . if only I had access to the computer and internets earlier today, haha. No matter, happy belated birthday, Greg W. :)
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone. (I'm 47, btw.)
Greg Weisman

How old is Greg W today?

In any event, however, bonne anniversaire to you, ya delightful story-telling bastard. May you have many happy returns. :3

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Love...Reign O'er Me!" Roger Daltrey of The Who

Happy birthday, Greg!
Demonskrye - [<---"When The Wind Blows" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Have many more, Greg!
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even dragonflies and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream."--Shirley Jackson

Shoot, I had no idea.

Happy birthday, Mr. Weisman!

Harlan Phoenix

****A large cake appears on the table complete with candles. At the same time, Blaise appears, wearing a party hat and blowing a noise-maker.****

I'm just stopping by to wish Greg Weisman and very Happy Birthday!

****Blaise takes a very deep breath and gives a tremendous blow into the noise-maker, which promptly explodes. After the big bang, Blaise is nowhere to be found.****

Blaise

Happy birthday, Greg!
Spen

EEP. My question that didn't seem approved last night, is sitting approved today. Sorry for the intrusion.

(In answer to why to ask such a question when a goodly chunk of the answers would have to wait till after the show premiers... As a huge YJ fan I was very excited when I heard Greg was going to be working an a cartoon adaptation. But the more I heard about the cartoon the further it seemed from the original comic. I'm trying to get as much as I can about the tone and outlook of the cartoon, so I can adjust to it and not judge it harshly for not being something it isn't aiming to be once I finally see it. Anyting up to, but not over the line for spoilers.)

Laura 'ad astra' Sack - [foolchaser at gmail]
Laura 'ad astra' Sack

SUPERMORFF - This is the first I've heard of it, but thanks for sharing it with us. Of course, even then, the Spirit of Destiny decides when it'll speak or act through a stone, so stealing a replica would be ultimately as pointless as stealing the original.

(I reread the Stone of Destiny story from "Clan-Building" yesterday, inspired by the entry for September 27 in the Old Farmer's Almanac for 2010; it listed that day as the date of "Breakthrough in deciphering Rosetta Stone announced, 1822", and the Rosetta Stone was listed as one of the Stone of Destiny's various identities in the big speech at the end.)

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1 at mindspring dot com]

So this is quite an old news story now (it's from April), and maybe it was mentioned in the Comment Room at the time, but I've only just found it so I thought I'd mention it anyway: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/8653812.stm

In April, thieves attempted to steal a replice of the Stone of Destiny from Scone Palace. At the time, nobody really had a clue why anyone would want to steal a replica (not to mention replace it with ANOTHER replice), but in the Gargoyles universe this kinda makes sense, as the Spirit of Destiny isn't confined to a single vessel.

Anyone got any thoughts on this?

Supermorff

At the risk of sounding blunt, a question like that is not going to get an answer like you're looking for until the show has been on the air for a while. So I would just sit on that question for a while if I were you.
mage_cat - [mage_cat14 at yahoo dot com]

Hello fine comment room folks.

I seem to have had a question fail to be approved and I was wondering which part fell afoul of the rules so I can recraft it. Usually I keep a copy of the text till I see it is approved, but failed to do so this time. Figures.

The gist of the question was whether there were characters Greg would have loved to use for Young Justice but simply could not. Characters that for some reason just couldn't fit into the universe as it is being structured. I started by saying I'd have to ask the question again after the show was running because I assume that many answers would involve spoilers. And that I vaguely recalled an early answer mentioning he would have loved to use Captain Atom (given his history of the character). That's what gave me the idea to ask. I presumed that a whole bunch of characters couldn't show up because they were so tied to being third or later generations that they would be awkward in such a young DCU, and speculated there may be characters that presented animation difficulties.

Basically I was fishing for those sort of oddball behind the scenes stories like finding out you have to change the script because an actor can't pronounce a word, or having to cut a favorite part because you realize you've written the need for it out of the film, or happy accidents that just seemed right. Trying to get the flavor and tone of the show without the events themselves.

thanks

Laura 'ad astra' Sack

Antiyonder> I don't know if it's an idea issue, but given that there are currently no plans to revive Disney Villains and Greg doesn't seem very hopeful that it's something BOOM! would want to do, I kind of doubt he'll have many answers for you. It doesn't benefit Greg at all to speculate about what he would do with what's now a hypothetical project and then have what he aid compare to a possible finished work. If Greg says "I'd love to include so-and-so" and then he does a comic for BOOM! and so-and-so's not in it, it's going to raise all sorts of awkward questions and unfavorable comparisons to Greg's original concept.

I think it's fine to ask Greg about what he remembers of the original show concept. But I doubt he's going to want to be pinned down on what he would do with a possible comic.

Demonskrye - [<---"When The Wind Blows" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Just wanted to run this question for approval as it may border on asking for spoilers/giving Greg an idea:

"Since you still have an interest in Disney's Villains, I had some more questions pertaining to the planned show:

1. Would all of the Disney Afternoon villains be dropped given the lack of airing of those shows?

1a. If yes, would villains from Darkwing Duck and Chip N Dale Rescue Rangers still be included given their comic revival (depending of course if both comics have a long healthy life)?

2. Would villains from the 2000 Disney Movies (i.e. The Emperor's New Groove, Atlantis The Lost Empire, Lilo & Stitch, The Princess & The Frog) be incorporated into the show?

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

As Vinnie would say, "And away we go on with the show!"

As Greg Weisman promised, the Ask Greg queue is open for questions. Again, any new comers, please ask questions here before flooding the Ask Greg queue.

Also, read Greg's ramble here: http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=869 He's not going to spoil so don't bother asking! Thanks everybody!

Anthony Tini

TENTH
Gargoyles Movie - [Rebel (trying to help with Google bombing)]

(9th)Nine!!!!!!!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]

Ooh, I need your love babe...Eight Days a Week!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Love...Reign O'er Me!" Roger Daltrey of The Who

Lucky # 7th
Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
Cheese, it's as good an answer as any.

6th~!!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>X_X)> It's too hot~!!!

FIFTH!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

I know, I just wanted to see if anyone would run with it.
Lurker

4TH!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"But what do you call each other?" "'Friend...'" - Tom and Brooklyn, "Awakening, Part One"

Interesting and completely irrelevant fact about The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind:

The five Great Houses are Telvanni, Hlaalu, Indoril, Redoran, and Dres.

Their initials spell out THIRD.

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Yes it is, you're second!
Greg Bishansky

Its not official unless you say FIRST!
Lurker

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!
Greg Bishansky