Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

BB > Not to be insulting (and I'm no Shakespeare either), but pointing out the rather substantial difference between "dead", "trapped", "gone", etc., isn't exactly splitting hairs. I mean it's not like it's an insignificant difference, like the difference between "red" and "crimson". "Dead" and "trapped" and "gone for good" are very different things. So when you say something like "We all thought he was dead..." then yeah, people are going to contest that, because you're speaking for everyone when you say it like that, and the rest of us thought he was dead at the end of Awakening Part 2, not at the end of Shadows of the Past. Even if you said "We all thought he was gone for good..." or "We all thought he was trapped permanently..." people might still contest it because some people might have suspected he would return someday (I didn't, but some people might have).

That said, personally I agree that I thought he was going to be permanently trapped at the end of Shadows of the Past. And yeah, if he was ever going to come back, I would not have expected him to come back trapped in an enchanted battleaxe. Hence, probably one of the main reasons why Vendettas is one of my least favorite episodes of the series.
Rebel
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:47:47 pm EDT from 69.134.102.225

Battle Beast>"At the end of the ep, Haakon presses his hands against the rock, from the inside, and I took that to mean he was trapped in that shard of rock. And no, there isn't any evidence to say that he CAN'T escape; I took it to be that he was trapped."

Traps can be escaped from, especially given we don't really know a lot about the full capabilities of ghosts. Hell, given that ghosts tend to be echoes of the past who survive due to strong emotions, unfinished business, etc...it doesn't surprise me at all that Hakon could escape through sheer fury.

[SPOILER] Thematic! [/SPOILER]
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 10:07:15 pm EDT from 216.96.89.235

Harlan> At the end of the ep, Haakon presses his hands against the rock, from the inside, and I took that to mean he was trapped in that shard of rock. And no, there isn't any evidence to say that he CAN'T escape; I took it to be that he was trapped.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 10:03:00 pm EDT from 173.181.70.136

For the second time, Greg, I NEVER said Haakon came back to life. What I said was "...And now he's back. ... He should have stayed dead." I guess I could have said, "He should have stayed gone." Or "He should have stayed trapped." I think most people know what I meant.

Whatever way you want to interpret what I said, all I meant was that, at the end of Shadows, I though Haakon was gone for good. Dead, trapped, what have you.

And Greg, I am a 5th generation Canadian, and yes, English is my first language. Sorry bub, but I'm not Shakespeare. I talk the way I talk. We're none of us perfect. So stop insulting me already. That's not what this forum is about.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 10:00:14 pm EDT from 173.181.70.136

Battle Beast>"But his spirit was contained inside the megalith. It got out somehow and became a battle axe."

It's been a while, but I don't recall there being any hard, objective evidence that ghosts can be sealed in the Megalith Dance forever.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 9:46:44 pm EDT from 216.96.89.235

But his spirit was contained inside the megalith. It got out somehow and became a battle axe.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 9:42:18 pm EDT from 173.181.70.136

BATTLE BEAST> << I was watching the same episode y'all were watching. When Haakon became trapped in the meagalith piece at the end of the episode, I took it for him to be gone forever - dead - and we wouldn't hear of him again. The Captain was sent to heaven (or an equivalent) and Haakon sent to Hell (or an equivalent).>>

Hakon was dead at the end of the first act of "Awakening Part Two", and he clearly wasn't sent anywhere in "Shadows of the Past." Nor did he ever come back to life. You can say you didn't expect him to return, that's one thing. But the way you worded it makes me doubt that English is your first language.

Words mean things. Please use them properly.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 9:41:55 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Battle Beast>"How did he escape the Megalith imprisonment?"

Hate spreads. It can't be isolated or contained.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 9:36:56 pm EDT from 216.96.89.235

Bishansky> Good point. I had never though of The Green as being preachy; I saw it as the introduction of a devestated Gargoyle clan trying desperatly to save themselves.

Now that you mention it, And I think back to it, it was rather preachy. And Captain Planet was worse than a televangelist.

"Deadly Force and Lighthouse in the Sea of Time are two of my least favorite episodes. That doesn't mean I think they are some of the worst episodes of the series, just that they are some of my least favorites...">

That's the thing: I wasn't asking which episodes were ANYONES least favorites, I was asking which are THE WORST OF THE SERIES. There is a difference. Same with The "Top 11" ... not YOUR favorite episodes, but which are THE BEST of the series. My favorite episode is The Reckoning and/or The Price, but I belive the best is CoS.

Shadows of the Past> I was watching the same episode y'all were watching. When Haakon became trapped in the meagalith piece at the end of the episode, I took it for him to be gone forever - dead - and we wouldn't hear of him again. The Captain was sent to heaven (or an equivalent) and Haakon sent to Hell (or an equivalent).

I never expected Haakon to return. How did he escape the Megalith imprisonment? Why did he become a floating, dis-embodied spirit trapped in an axe? That's what I meant.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 9:25:58 pm EDT from 173.181.70.136

"Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" is one of my favorite episodes, but what really makes it for me isn't the literacy element, but the way it handled Merlin. Lots of animated television series bring King Arthur and Merlin at some point, but "Lighthouse" stood out for me in how it did so. The Merlin of that episode isn't just a medieval wizard; the focus is on his role as the tutor to the young King Arthur, complete with Macbeth's eloquent description of Merlin and Arthur's achievements - and even a hint of the fall of Camelot at the end. Not to mention the nature of the Scrolls of Merlin reinforcing this; they aren't just another collection of spells, but Merlin's memoirs, with the part we hear being his first meeting with the young Arthur and taking the future king on as his pupil. Probably the most literate and intelligent handling of the Matter of Britain in an animated television series yet.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 6:15:23 pm EDT from 4.244.0.71

Sorry, I just want to restore my user data here because I had a crazy computer virus and had to reinstall firefox and lost all my browser data. You can delete this post if you want.
comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 4:10:55 pm EDT from 80.187.102.48

To be fair, it also gave use "JALAPENA!" in all its meme-tastic glory. XD
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"And I wonder, still I wonder, who'll stop the rain..." - John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:23:50 pm EDT from 134.173.90.0

ALGERNON> No gangster worth their meatballs would expose themselves like that in front of a cop. Crooked cop or not. Dracon was undone for one reason and one reason only... he wanted to see Elisa naked.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:21:36 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

I'd be hard pressed to put together a bottom five, mainly because I have a had time thinking of an episode that I actually consider bad. The series as a whole usually has such a high and consistant quality.

Of the entire first two seasons the only episode I kinda dislike is Protection, and that's mainly because I find Dracon to be a dull villain. Usually in other Dracon stories like Deadly Force and [i}Silver Falcon[/i] there's something else interesting going on to make them memorable. But all Protection has is the rather unconvincing Elisa as a crooked cop plot.
Algernon
Man, 2010 was a crazy year. Remember when the monolith turned Jupiter into a star? Good times.
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:17:07 pm EDT from 86.40.251.96

Deadly Force and Lighthouse in the Sea of Time are two of my least favorite episodes. That doesn't mean I think they are some of the worst episodes of the series, just that they are some of my least favorites, along with The Silver Falcon. I'm not a big fan of any of the Broadway-centric episodes, mostly because Broadway is my least favorite of the main cast. If I were to actually sit down and figure out my Bottom Five, I'm not sure if these episodes would be on it because there may be others that I like even less if I were to really sit down and evaluate them (the truth is, to figure out my Bottom 5 with a lot of accuracy I would need to watch the whole series again since there are some episodes I haven't seen in a long long time). Some of my other least faves: Outfoxed, Golem, Mark of the Panther, Vendettas, Her Brother's Keeper, The Cage, Sentinel, Protection, Monsters.
Rebel
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:51:58 pm EDT from 69.134.102.225

Count me in as a guy who greatly enjoyed all three. :D

Probably helps that all three "messages" are ones that are near and dear to my heart, LOL. I'll accept some level of preachiness if I like the lesson being taught.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"And I wonder, still I wonder, who'll stop the rain..." - John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 10:07:55 am EDT from 134.173.90.0

"Lighthouse" is far more preachy than "The Green", IMHO. In "The Green" the environmental message was due to the particular protectorate of the Mayan Clan. They acted the same way about the forest that Goliath acts about Manhattan. And the message was only a part of the story as opposed to "Lighthouse" where the "reading is good" message was seemingly the reason the episode was made. Taking every oppurtunity to remind us of literacy got tiring for me. Yes, Lexington, we understand that you can read about harrier jets. Wonderful. We were just beaten over the head with this message by every character. In "The Green" only the characters who were actually so fanatic about protecting the jungle spoke and acted on it. Goliath went along with it largely out out of the Gargoyle Way and Elisa openly disagreed with the methods. Of course, neither episode was as good at delivering a PSA-type message as "Deadly Force". That episode's message was so subtle and non-preachy, but still powerful and realistic.

But I suppose what we are all learning is that to each their own with these episodes.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Sun, Aug 28, 2011 9:33:38 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

BATTLE BEAST> Actually, I can definitely understand "The Green" being on someone's bottom list. The episode was rather preachy, and at the time, when Captain Planet was on the air, many people were sick of that trope. New clan or not.

"Vows" being on someone's bottom list is, I agree, rather baffling. It's a smart script. Xanatos is awesome. Great character drama. Goliath/Demona is finally put to bed. Really good episode.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Sat, Aug 27, 2011 11:08:59 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

While I found it amazing that Grief made the top 11 list, I find it equally amazing that some people put episodes like Vows and The Green on their bottom 5. I think these are two great episodes; Vows for obvious reasons but The Green gave us a whole new clan of Gargoyles.

Interesting.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Sat, Aug 27, 2011 10:31:41 pm EDT from 173.181.95.22

Abe Archer> The question was about Greg's Young Justice series (new episodes of which start airing September 16, by the way), not Gargoyles.
Supermorff
posted @ Sat, Aug 27, 2011 11:32:19 am EDT from 81.159.129.216

I was reading ask Greg and came upon this question:

"tersal13 writes...

When can we expect the rest of season 1 to begin airing? We are waiting for the final 16 episodes from season 1! Any idea?

Greg responds...

ASKED AND ANSWERED."

I don't understand! What final episodes from season 1? Can someone explain this to me?
Abe Archer
posted @ Sat, Aug 27, 2011 11:27:01 am EDT from 142.166.231.190

Wingless> You know, the entirety of TGC is on youtube if the Canadian fans are really so morbidly curious.
Algernon
Man, 2010 was a crazy year. Remember when the monolith turned Jupiter into a star? Good times.
posted @ Sat, Aug 27, 2011 9:16:51 am EDT from 86.41.100.24

Bishanky>"Or, to further drive home how terrible this show is, I would rather watch all of "The Goliath Chronicles" again than endure another second of this crap."

*raises eyebrow. Chews popcorn slowly*
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Sat, Aug 27, 2011 4:18:03 am EDT from 216.96.89.235

For those of you on this forum who know me, and my feelings towards certain areas of this franchise....

... well, check out my review, specifically the final sentence of this review:

http://gregxb.blogspot.com/2011/08/count-me-out-as-of-now.html
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Sat, Aug 27, 2011 1:35:14 am EDT from 68.199.5.105

<<For those Canadian folks hoping to see The Goliath Chronicles on Disney XD for the first time since they were originally broadcast, sorry folks, the cycle of season 2 ends next week and they begin season 1 again. >>

Wow, Canada really does love people more than America does. No TGC... sigh, sounds like Heaven.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 8:59:03 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

For those Canadian folks hoping to see The Goliath Chronicles on Disney XD for the first time since they were originally broadcast, sorry folks, the cycle of season 2 ends next week and they begin season 1 again. Told yas we don't get the same Disney XD as what's available in the US - just a watered down Canadianized version. Then again, there are those of you who will be thankful for that.
Wingless
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 8:19:32 pm EDT from 99.246.10.54

Nah, I live in Charleston, SC. It was headed right for us for a while, but it missed by a wide mark. We got the edge of it, which was enough to make them cancel school.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 8:14:03 pm EDT from 75.76.235.156

I don't know if anyone's noticed Greg's answers at "Ask Greg" for today yet, but you should read his answer to Richard Jackson's second question about the Pack. It's great.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 7:51:06 pm EDT from 4.244.0.217

See, now THIS is hard for me. Which I guess is a testament to how great this show is.

My least favorites are: The Green, Vendettas, Monsters, Golem, and Heritage.

To be honest, the only two episodes on there that I don't like are the first two. I actually have nothing against the other three, just that there are some episodes I like more than others, and those episodes are usually the "others." Don't dislike them, they're just not my first choice when I feel like watching a "Gargoyles" episode.

Icetyrant: What was it you didn't like about the episode "Deadly Force"? That shows up on a lot of favorites lists, so I'm curious to hear your opinions on it.

Jurgan: Out of curiosity, do you live in Florida? I ask because I do, and I've been hearing a lot of jokes over the last few days about how it missed us.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"It would move me to tears... If I still had tears to shed." -Mr. Freeze (Batman: TAS)
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 7:31:06 pm EDT from 97.102.10.159

Want to apologize to the Yankees in the room for the weather we sent up your way. I hope all those of you from New York and surrounding areas have gotten somewhere safe! Please post here to let us know what happens and how you made it through. Good luck!
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 7:20:04 pm EDT from 75.76.235.156

My bottom 5 has to be

Vows, Outfoxed, The New Olympians, Sentinal and Vendettas
VickyUK - [Vickyfanofwwe@aol.com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 3:46:15 pm EDT from 195.93.21.10

BRAINIAC> Given the "All things are true" mantra, I imagine Hakon is currently spending his eternity being used as a chew toy by Nidhoggr.
Algernon
Man, 2010 was a crazy year. Remember when the monolith turned Jupiter into a star? Good times.
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 2:46:18 pm EDT from 86.40.152.242

Matt>"... Uh, possess his body and force him to attack his family..."

But that's a cold cynical logical point that misses the greater point: Hakon's a living remnant of the scars of the past. He DOESN'T succeed and that's what makes Vendettas awesome: our heroes have paved a new, strong life and how things used to be, in the face of how they feel now, are as damaging as a banana cream pie.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:50:56 pm EDT from 216.96.89.235

Battle Beast> "When Haakon was taken care of in Shadows, we all thought he was gone for good. (finally dead and not an undead ghost anymore.)"

What episode did you watch? The end result of Shadows of the Past was that the Captain moved on but Hakon remained bound to the wreckage of the Megalith Dance, alone and trapped with no one to hate. I always liked that touch of being stuck in an unending ghostly existence and that leads to the real reason I dislike Vendettas. Hakon's "release" at the end of that episode diminished the effectiveness both of his personal purgatory and the Captain's earlier release, at least in my eyes.

BB, your argument about Hakon's ghost being gone for good is actually one in favor of Vendettas - the episode (fairly) conclusively establishes that Hakon can no longer have any further direct effect on the world. I imagine, if he's not totally "gone," that's he's trapped in an existence where he simply cannot do anything to affect the world, much like the state Sauron was described as being in after the One Ring was destroyed - basically undying but eternally impotent.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 12:02:34 pm EDT from 137.183.232.22

Bishansky> I never said Haakon came back to life, and I think you knew what I meant.

When Haakon was taken care of in Shadows, we all thought he was gone for good. (finally dead and not an undead ghost anymore.) I DID NOT like the fact that he came back as a possessed battle axe. (LAME.) His ghost was suppsoed to be gone for good... how did it come back and meet up with Wolf?

I like Todd's annalogy that Haakon is just teaming up with a big dumb Wolfman. But how they ever figured out they were related is beyond me.

I liked the idea of Vinny taking his revenge, though I think it could have been handled differently. *SHRUGS*
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:34:24 am EDT from 173.181.79.98

icetyrant> Mark of the Panther actually reminded me more of Reading Rainbow with the style of animation they used when Diane told the Anansi folk tale and Lavar Burton guest starring.
Richard Jackson - [rickymtj@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 11:26:18 am EDT from 112.165.34.61

I loved Vendetta's myself. The end of it had me rofling pretty good.

As for my bottom five... huh. Maybe:
Heritage
Deadly Force
The Green

Don't really got any others actually. I got tired of having of the Reading Rainbow episode at some points, but for the most part I liked A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time.
icetyrant
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:42:36 am EDT from 75.81.219.252

I was rewatching "Vows" today, and something occured to me. Maybe this is something everyone just already knew or something that makes no sense at all, but I thought I would ask y'all. After Future Demona is knocked out and Goliath gives Past Demona that pretty little speech about attending to the jealousies and loves and such of hte present instead of focusing on the future. Does anybody think it's possible that his speech was an influence on her future self? By this, I mean, to my understanding the way history works in Gargoyles is that you cant change it and any time travel was just already a part of history. So I'm thinking maybe what went down was something like Demona did do what Goliath said and she tried to form vows of love and all of that. As in it gave her perhaps a new value of her friends and life, and so when 994 did come around it was harder on her than it would've been had she not tried so hard to live by Goliath's words. Sorry if I did not explain myself so well.
icetyrant
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 10:25:14 am EDT from 75.81.219.252

... Uh, possess his body and force him to attack his family...

Though I see your point, I don't regard Hakon as a weapon that can't hurt you. He can do plenty of damage.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 9:47:42 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

Masterdramon>"I could have forgiven bringing back Hakon if his confrontation with Hudson (whose children he had murdered by the dozens) had carried more weight, but the whole thing really ends up falling flat."

I liked that confrontation. Hakon is the antithesis of everything Gargoyles stands for as a story and likewise is the pure opposition of everything our heroes hope to achieve. He is hate.

There is no Gargoyles villain more fitting for the title of TRUE archnemesis, I feel, than Hakon (maybe the Hunters/Quarrymen). To contrast the love and family of the Manhattan Clan, he has hatred and isolation (using Wolf is a clever application: same family line, yet still forever separated by his spectral lack of that family blood). In stark defiance of the very apparent mortality of the endangered gargoyles, Hakon doesn't seem to TRULY "die." The gargoyles are natural parts of our world, Hakon is maintained by a supernatural existence.

And perhaps most importantly, the inspiring and endearing gargoyles are contrasted by the utterly pathetic Hakon. I love the dual plots of Vendettas because Mr. Carter and Hakon are THE BEST THEMATIC FOILS EVER. They're both impassioned weapons that CANNOT HURT YOU. Hudson's confrontation with Hakon is rad because Hudson is a gargoyle who proudly fights alongside his family and has recently met his rookery daughter. Recently had seen a gargoyle warrior knighted. What can Hakon DO? Hudson has no reason to submit to the hatred that destroyed Hakon: He did what Hakon couldn't.

He survived.

He has scars as all warriors do...but Hudson the warrior, the rookery father, and the gargoyle is still alive. What's a sad little ghost gonna do to him?
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 5:51:48 am EDT from 216.96.89.235

Wow. I just learned that Opera 9.6 works with Windows 95. And now I don't have to sneak onto my roomate's computer to check this page! Yipee!

Let's see, bottom five? Monsters tops that list easily. It's the one episode that never grew on me at all. I didn't like New Olympians or Sentinal when they first came out, but I've grown used to them. Monsters still makes me cringe, though.

So I'd say it's Monsters at bottom, followed by Heritage, Protection, The New Olympians, and Sentinal. They're still near the bottom, whether I'm used to them or not. Vendettas is in the bottom ten, but Vinnie made it fun enough to sit through.
Spen
I thought of a really witty signature the other day. And now I've forgotten it.
posted @ Fri, Aug 26, 2011 1:26:30 am EDT from 66.43.205.35

Abe Archer: Welcome to the Comment Room! Always room for one more fan here. :)

Re: "Vendettas," the memos on AskGreg indicate that it was originally two separate episodes prior to Disney axing "Hunter's Moon" as a DTV movie, and it definitely shows. The Vinnie stuff is consistently some of the funniest physical comedy in the series (which is why it doesn't rank lower), but anything the Wolf/Hakon side could do with the premise besides a badly animated brawl got lost in the shuffle. I could have forgiven bringing back Hakon if his confrontation with Hudson (whose children he had murdered by the dozens) had carried more weight, but the whole thing really ends up falling flat. "Get an afterlife," is a pretty weak post-mortem quip.

...Of course, Vinnie hitting Goliath in the face with a banana cream pie (and therefore becoming the only "Gargoyles" character to ever swear vengeance on Goliath and succeed) and then walking off, humming the theme tune, still makes the whole episode worth it. XD
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"And I wonder, still I wonder, who'll stop the rain..." - John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival
posted @ Thu, Aug 25, 2011 11:24:40 pm EDT from 66.91.120.80

ABE ARCHER> A combination of science and sorcery. I guess creating a will-o-the-wisp is simple as far as spells go, and only requires some electricity.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Thu, Aug 25, 2011 9:24:57 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Hey Guys,

I'm a new Gargoyles Fan (found Gargoyles it amazing) I'm glad to see that the fandom is'nt dead. I was reading other coments and I guess I prove comets theory about new fans discovering the show. This is my introduction (lame, I know).

Question
[SPOILER] Why does Macbeth have a magic-plug-in-ball in "Pendragon" and how does it works. Basically an opinion question. [/SPOILER]
Abe Archer
posted @ Thu, Aug 25, 2011 9:09:56 pm EDT from 142.166.231.190

Todd Jenson>"In "Vendettas", he's just teaming up with a big dumb wolfman for a simple fight (though his exasperation with Wolf was kind of funny)."

I'd argue that, besides the familial connection, Hakon was tying himself to an appropriate vessel to unleash the pent up hatred from his isolation via the Megalith Dance.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Thu, Aug 25, 2011 8:55:53 pm EDT from 216.96.89.235

BATTLE BEAST> I was unaware that Hakon ever came back to life. I must have missed that particular episode.

Let's see, he was flesh and blood in "Awakening" and he was a ghost in "Shadows of the Past" and "Vendettas." What episode am I missing?
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Thu, Aug 25, 2011 8:51:50 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

Count me as another person who thought Hakon's return in "Vendettas" was an anticlimax. In "Shadows of the Past", he and the Captain of the Guard are playing on Goliath's troubled memories of the Wyvern Massacre, his grief, even some "survivor's guilt", wearing him down until he's not sure what's real and what's illusion. In "Vendettas", he's just teaming up with a big dumb wolfman for a simple fight (though his exasperation with Wolf was kind of funny).

On the other hand, I did enjoy the Vinnie scenes of "Vendettas" - though I was a bit surprised that the motorcycle rider in "Awakening Part Three", the Cyberbiotics security guard on board Fortress One, and the Gen-U-Tech security guard in "The Cage" were all the same guy. I particularly got a kick out of the contrast between Vinnie's narration and what really happened.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 25, 2011 8:10:55 pm EDT from 4.244.0.57

Harlan Phoenix> I think that too ^^
When I saw this episode the first time I couldn't stop laughing and I think this is the sense of it.
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Thu, Aug 25, 2011 4:49:26 pm EDT from 80.187.111.138

I thought Vendettas was awesome.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Thu, Aug 25, 2011 3:51:45 pm EDT from 216.96.89.235

Um... I mean, the third one ^^
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Thu, Aug 25, 2011 2:01:40 pm EDT from 80.187.111.138

Ok, why not being the second one filling this out. It's even harder than the top 11 list, but I'll try.

65. Metamorphosis
64. M.I.A.
63. Heritage
62. Mark of the Panther (I like Anansi, he's not the reason for this episode being here)
61. The Cage

Some of these are in this list because I'm not really a fan of the mutates and "furry gargoyles", others remind me of stuff I don't want to be reminded of. It's not that I really dislike these episodes - I watch them from time to time too - it's just that I prefer others a lot. There's no episode of Gargoyles I hate.
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Thu, Aug 25, 2011 1:58:57 pm EDT from 80.187.111.138

Here is my "Bottom Five":

5. Protection
4. Mark of the Panther
3. Golem
2. The New Olympians
1. Vendettas - Haakon was uspposed to die off in Shadows of the Past, but now he's back... ...as a possessed battle axe! IMHO, LAME. He should have stayed dead.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Thu, Aug 25, 2011 1:54:38 pm EDT from 173.181.67.153

If we're indeed doing "bottom five" lists next, then I think I'll get the ball rolling with...

65. Monsters
64. Sentinel
63. Vendettas
62. Thrill of the Hunt
61. Enter Macbeth

I don't particularly dislike any of these episodes, but they're generally the ones that excite me the least whenever I'm in the process of rewatching the series. Looking back at the list, bad animation and/or extended slugfests (in part because the character models were generally too intricate to pull off stellar action sequences, barring a few odd-ones-out like "The Price") seem to be a consistent pattern here.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"And I wonder, still I wonder, who'll stop the rain..." - John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival
posted @ Thu, Aug 25, 2011 11:30:11 am EDT from 66.91.120.80

Matt> You're Welcome! I have been wondering what the fandom thinks are the best episodes for a long time.

The episodes that surprised be were Grief and High Noon, but with a couple well placed votes on a top 11 list, that could all change.

But Ill Met by Moonlight not receiving any votes surprised me.

I am going to do my "Bottom" five episodes in the next little while, too.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Thu, Aug 25, 2011 9:53:00 am EDT from 173.181.67.153

Algernon> Well, if we had gotten enough top 11 lists, we could have made a reliable top 20 list and pared it down. :/

But, I think we might all be able to agree that CoS and Hunter's Moon are the two best, since they got the most points / #1 picks.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Wed, Aug 24, 2011 3:03:36 pm EDT from 173.181.88.29

Thanks, Battle Beast, for doing all that work. I was planning on getting around to it, but you did a better job anyway.

The one thing that I am most shocked about is that "The Edge" received no points! That is a great episode.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"... And if we did it before, we can do it again." "And we will. Together." - Goliath and Elisa, "The Edge"
posted @ Wed, Aug 24, 2011 1:47:39 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

Young Justice #7 is out today, the first issue with art by Chris Jones, who drew Bad Guys #3: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=1110 It's also available digitally: https://comics.comixology.com/#/issue/13253/Young-Justice-7
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Wed, Aug 24, 2011 12:19:56 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

BATTLE BEAST> "I'd love to see more top 11 lists to get more votes and create a TRUE, OFFICIAL top 11 list... someday."

I think you've got about as much chance of getting the leaders of all the world's major religions to agree on the true nature of God as you do of getting a Top 11 that every garg fan will agree on. Best you'll get is the Top 11 most POPULAR episodes.
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Aug 24, 2011 12:09:58 pm EDT from 78.143.160.1

LAst week many of us posted our TOP 11 Episodes lists (Bishansky, I'd be really interested to hear your commentary on the bottom 5 episodes, if you cared to do that).

Anyway, I tabulated all your votes, and giving each episode in the lists a weighted number of points (#1 = 11 points, #11 = 1 point, and so on) I got these results:

The top 11 ep[isodes:

11) Future Tense (28 Pts; 5 votes, Avg 6.4)
10) High Noon (31 Pts; 4 votes, Avg 4.25)
9) Grief (34 Pts, 4 votes, Avg 3.5)
8) Deadly Force (34 Pts; 6 votes, Avg 6.3)
7) M.I.A. (38 Pts; 5 votes, Avg 4.4)
6) The Price (44 Pts; 6 Votes, Avg 4.6)
5) Eye of the Beholder (44 Pts, 7 votes, Avg 5.7)
4) Avalon (51 Pts; 8 votes, Avg 5)
3) The Mirror (59 Pts; 10 votes, Avg 6.1)
2) City of Stone (85 Pts; 9 votes, Avg 2.5)
1) Hunter's Moon (89 Pts; 11 votes, Avg 3.9)

What I found was that, while Hunter's Moon had more points (89) to CoS's 85, CoS had more 1st place votes (six to Hunter's Moon's one) but Hunter's Moon appeared on more lists (eleven to CoS on 9 lists).

There were 14 lists in total, not nearly enough to make a TRUE list of the Fandom's top 11 list best Episodes, although this does give us a hint as to what that list may look like.

Honorable mentions:

12) Vows (27 Pts)
13) Awakening (24 Pts)
14) Reawakening (23 Pts)
15) The Reckoning (22 Pts)

54 of the 66 Episodes appeared on the lists (if you include the multiparters as separate episodes; on the lists, they were included as one episode).

Episodes that DID NOT Appear:

1) Thrill of the Hunt
2) The Edge
3) Leader of the Pack
4) Upgrade
5) Protection
6) Heritage
7) Eye of the Storm
8) The New Olympians
9) Sentinel
10) Ill Met by Moonlight
11) Vendettas
12)The Journey

All of this I have done is totally un scientific, but I thought it would be interesting and maybe start a converstaion.

I'd love to see more top 11 lists to get more votes and create a TRUE, OFFICIAL top 11 list... someday.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I DID IT!!! I WATCHED ALL 485 BEST PICTURE NOMINEES IN ONE YEAR!!!
posted @ Wed, Aug 24, 2011 11:23:26 am EDT from 173.181.88.29

Old Fan> In all honesty I can understand that some fans don't care to push for more Garg material and that's perfectly fine. But on the grounds that "I don't think it likely to see (another) continuation of the series" is a bit flimsy.

I mean back in 2003, if someone was to tell you that Greg would be publishing Gargoyles comics a few years down the line, I'm betting your response would be the quote I just made in the previous paragraph. I mean as optimistic as we were for more stories, no one expected to even get the comic, so why rule out possibility of a continuation now?
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Aug 24, 2011 10:37:51 am EDT from 50.35.213.69

ALBERTO> Masterdramon is correct, these are the only legally available available Gargoyles DVDs...

http://www.amazon.com/Gargoyles-Complete-Season-Keith-David/dp/B0002W4SY0/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1314187552&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Gargoyles-Season-Two-Vol-1/dp/B000ATQYVA/ref=sr_1_3?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1314187552&sr=1-3
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Aug 24, 2011 8:09:16 am EDT from 78.143.160.1

Alberto: I can guarantee you, with 100% certainty, that any DVD collection you find containing more than the first thirty-nine episodes of "Gargoyles" is not legit, and indeed most probably a scam. I would heavily advise you not to put down money for something like that.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"And I wonder, still I wonder, who'll stop the rain..." - John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival
posted @ Wed, Aug 24, 2011 8:04:15 am EDT from 66.91.120.80

I've seen a DVD collection of all seventy-eight episodes online for different prices and in different DVD packaging. It seems like it isn't legit but I am not sure. Does anyone know for sure? Has anyone actually ordered them and been satisfied with the DVD collection? It doesn't seem like Disney will actually release the rest of the episodes so I was considering ordering these so if anyone has any advise I would appreciate it.
Alberto - [alberto.suarez.jr@gmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Aug 24, 2011 7:52:10 am EDT from 50.84.43.66

OLD FAN> Oh, come on. If the fandom bores you, leave it. I can kind of understand you, but if you are a real fan, why do you want the fandom to die?
Also, the comics are quite new. They came out many years after the TV show. I think not many people over these years had hope for something like that. I believe there's still a chance for Gargoyles to come back. And if not, I'll take what I have. There will be always new people finding Gargoyles and liking it, even many years after it originally was in TV.

I just hope that crappy "Gargoyles" called movie doesn't come out. It could make things a lot harder than they are already.
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Wed, Aug 24, 2011 7:38:38 am EDT from 80.187.110.161

OLD FAN> If Thundercats can make a comeback after a 23 year hiatus then there's hope for Gargoyles yet.
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Aug 24, 2011 6:15:34 am EDT from 78.143.160.1

Old Fan: If we had all taken that attitude several years back then we wouldn't have gotten the comics in the first place. Yes, they may have ended before their time, but so long as there is no advantage to throwing in the towel at this point don't expect any of us to follow your lead.

Everyone here's in it for the long haul - we have been for a while - and we will get another success. Marvel in particular may not be actively interested in the property at the moment, but executives shuffle in-and-out with every passing year and it's not that big of a stretch to hope that some Garg-friendly ones eventually show up. In short, so long as Greg W. doesn't give up on this property, why should we?

You're free to leave the fandom at any time, sir...and I'm truly sorry you feel this way. But don't expect anyone to follow you out the door.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"And I wonder, still I wonder, who'll stop the rain..." - John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival
posted @ Tue, Aug 23, 2011 11:57:24 pm EDT from 66.91.120.80

I'm so bored with this show and this fandom. Time to let it die.

The comics were a nice breath of fresh air for Gargoyles fans but then they got canned too. I think it's safe to say Gargoyles is dead because I sure as hell don't see another come back any time soon.

And I was here for Gargoyles, not for any of Greg W's other superhero crap.

Fare thee well, Gargoyles. It's been fun but it's time to go.
Old Fan
posted @ Tue, Aug 23, 2011 11:01:36 pm EDT from 74.103.21.192

I really loved Taurus in the whole series. Even though the Goliath Chronicals were anything but, the next to last episode (77) really developed more of his persona. Michael Dorn was the best voice actor for this character too.
Jordan - [idiotofthedead@gmx.com]
Jordan
posted @ Tue, Aug 23, 2011 8:08:52 pm EDT from 129.59.150.122

VILMA> You won't be disappointed, they're easily some of the best comics I've ever read.
Algernon
Man, 2010 was a crazy year. Remember when the monolith turned Jupiter into a star? Good times.
posted @ Mon, Aug 22, 2011 5:37:11 pm EDT from 86.41.115.13

wow those books are a def buy!! i need to catch up with all the changes.... thanx for the refrence!!
vilma - [vilmaxiii@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 22, 2011 4:28:14 pm EDT from 72.93.88.87

<<but it is gargoyles none the less>>

No it's not.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!
posted @ Mon, Aug 22, 2011 3:42:51 pm EDT from 68.199.5.105

VILMA> If you really want the complete canon Gargoyles saga then I'd suggest skipping TGC and picking up these instead.

http://www.amazon.com/Gargoyles-Clan-Building-Greg-Weisman/dp/1593620969/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1314029411&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Gargoyles-Clan-Building-Greg-Weisman/dp/1593621671/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

http://www.amazon.com/Gargoyles-Bad-Guys-Greg-Weisman/dp/1593621930/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c
Algernon
Man, 2010 was a crazy year. Remember when the monolith turned Jupiter into a star? Good times.
posted @ Mon, Aug 22, 2011 12:11:22 pm EDT from 86.41.127.202

lol it is a rather horrible crapy season but it is gargoyles none the less lol.. it will be something to laugh at.. i have not seen all of that season but i did see 4 episode's that made my head kind of hurt.. i kind of think of it as fanfiction... well um sorta but even fanfiction is better.. but i have red a few that made me wanna go mad!! ..
vilma - [vilmaxiii@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 22, 2011 11:57:16 am EDT from 72.93.88.87

vilma> Are you sure you want the "third season"? xD
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Mon, Aug 22, 2011 11:25:00 am EDT from 80.187.111.168

thanx guys.. i already have the offical first season.. but yea i would like to have the whole 78 episodes.. there is something great feeling about haveing them all so when you have tike's of your owne you can watch it with them!! and never let it fade away like much to many good things.... id torrent and burn myslef but my computer is an old non dvd baring one so alas i can not do it my self...
vilma - [vilmaxiii@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 22, 2011 10:30:43 am EDT from 72.93.88.87

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending August 28, 2011

Index : Hide Images