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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending October 28, 2012

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http://www.change.org/petitions/walt-disney-home-entertainment-release-gargoyles-season-two-volume-two-and-season-three-3-on-dvd
Jonny Modlin - [jmodlin210@gmail.com]
Jonny Modlin

It's possible she knows about the world from the Archmage. But how likely is it? Besides the fact that she probably hasn't traveled much, and besides the prejudice against Gargoyles, there's also the fact that the Archmage is a jerk, which probably meant that he was only teaching her what he needed her to know to keep her doing his bidding.

And see, this is the problem of forcing the audience to make those leaps here, different members are going to make different leaps. If you got the stuff with the Weird Sisters telling the story to Goliath on Avalon and all that, then I'm impressed. It certainly wasn't what I got, and it's not my impression that most fans got that when there are a million other ways to piece it all together.

I appreciate all the discussion, trying to explain what you guys see in the Timedancer arc, etc. I guess we just aren't going to agree, because my feeling is that this has gone too far on the side of expecting the audience to resolve apparent inconsistencies on their own. I've never seen anything else in the series that went as far as Demona's behavior in that arc, and it's specifically the consistency of story that separates Gargoyles from other, poorly-written shows. Lack of consistency is even a big factor in the criticism of TGC, so I can't say I fully understand why everyone is eager to resolve some stories but not others.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

<<For that matter, she probably hadn't traveled the world much at this point. To her, Scotland WAS her whole world.>>

She was already well educated, and knew about the larger world. She was taught by the Archmage as his apprentice, she was literate, she taught Goliath to read and Goliath was aware of such things as the Sphinx and the Roman Empire. And considering how illiterate most were in those days, I think 997 Demona knew more about the world than most did.

But does this all need to be explained, I think a lot of this can be inferred with the information we have gotten. Greg himself has said more than once that he is not above making his audience work a little bit too... and back to the immortality vis a vis "The Price" and "The Reckoning," I pretty much came to the same conclusions Greg mentioned in 1996, at least a year before I got on the internet and well before there was an Ask Greg.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

I always figured that after Demona revealed her true intentions in "Temptation," Brooklyn realized she had been lying to him about a lot, and assumed (incorrectly) that the part about not being under the sleep spell had been a lie too. In my opinion, given that he now knew she was a liar, her being under the sleep spell like him would again be the only logical conclusion he would reach at that point. But that is a good point about the line in "Enter Macbeth." Forgot all about that.

I didn't feel the need to point this out when Greg B. mentioned vampires, but since Oberon's Children have now also come up, I guess I'll clarify that this is the sort of thing I was referring to when I wrote "Usually, the word 'immortal' implies not just longevity, but also invincibility (with some allowance made for limits, like Kryptonite)." I suppose that is a fair point about King Arthur's talk with Macbeth in the SLG books. I certainly never thought of either him or Goliath as being immortal, but I guess the Gargoyles characters (and probably also Greg) have a different idea of immortality than I do.

But let's be fair here. I do think we're getting off course (not that there's anything wrong with this discussion, just that I'm observing that point). The point I was originally making is that when questioned on things that don't seem to make sense, or which cause confusion to some fans, Greg has relied on the existence of offscreen moments to explain things. And since there was some confusion about how much the clan knew about Demona and Macbeth's backstory, from Hudson's use of the word "immortal" in "The Price" and then the clan's confusion over whether Demona was still alive after "The Reckoning," followed by Lexington's use of the word "immortal" in "Hunter's Moon," I think this is still a fair example of that. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think most of us understood that the Weird Sisters had explained everything offscreen after "Avalon" and that Goliath had then explained it to the clan upon returning home, and that Hudson had just meant something else when he said "immortal," before Greg explained it all. And I think it's those sorts of explanations that set the precedent for discussions like these, including my own arguments for why TGC could be canon.

Matt> The way I interpret that line is that Demona already hates humanity and wants to destroy it. Your interpretation is interesting, but I just don't see anything which suggests she has an eye on creating a gargoyle-only nation. For that matter, she probably hadn't traveled the world much at this point. To her, Scotland WAS her whole world. It looks to me like her same human-hating self that we've seen before, and that's one of the reasons why I don't like this story. It shows a Demona who's sunk to mass murder long before "City of Stone" said she had. I'm not saying your interpretation doesn't make sense. If we have to force this to be consistent, then your explanation is a good candidate. But that's the problem with the story. A good story doesn't rely on its readers to invent their own explanations for how it can all make sense.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

The term immortal can be used to describe any one who is alive for a long time. I'm sure the the British clan consider king Arthur immortal even though he can surely be killed by regular means today. The children of Oberon are surely considered immortal, although I do believe they could be killed under the right circumstances. Especially if you don't know the exact nature of a persons longevity, then immortality is an apt term. If all someone knew about the Avalon Clan is that they have been alive since the 1000's, then they would probably call them immortal.
Brack

Yeah, Demona told Brooklyn she was not under the sleep spell and had lived throughout the centuries and obviously shes visually about the same age as she was back then so assuming she has somehow gained immortality shouldn't be a big leap, even if you don't know how it happened or the conditions of the gift/curse.

And keep in mind that even in the Gargoyles Universe, the term "immortal" is consistently inconsistent. To some, like Xanatos, it means living forever. To others, like Demona, it means living until a certain condition is met. And to still others, like King Arthur, it merely lives living far longer than a normal lifespan. He and Macbeth agreed that they were "immortals" even though Arthur, like Goliath, is continuing to age normally and was just in a sort of "stasis" for a long time.

And Arlo, I'm curious, how exactly do you interpret Demona's line about dispatching all the humans and the fate of Scotland becoming hers?

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"

Arlo : Demona did tell Brooklyn in "Temptation" that "over the centuries I've seen horrors that would blast your soul". I'm guessing that Brooklyn later told the others that she had been lying about being under the sleep spell. Immortality would be the most likely explanation I could come up with, and Goliath would probably come to the same conclusion.

As for Macbeth, remember during "Enter Macbeth" Brooklyn suggested that maybe they should read the play? If they did, they'd at least know that Macbeth lived after their time, and should be long dead. So that's how they'd get the idea that he's immortal too.

Spen

Okay I suppose if he knew that they were living indefinitely (never dying of old age) then you have a point. If all he knew was that they'd been alive a while without use of the sleep spell, then I don't see it.

Interesting article, btw. Thanks for posting it.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

ARLO> << And even if he did know that they'd been alive for a long time, but not that they couldn't be killed, who really uses the word 'immortal' to describe that?>>

A lot of people do. Hell, the Norse pantheon uses it that way, and they can be killed. Vampires use the word immortal, and they're killable. Same with Highlanders.

Hell, check out the wikipedia page. There is no consensus on what immortality actually is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortality

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

Matt> Alright, well that isn't what I get from reading those lines, and I don't think it's what most readers who didn't have access to this site would have gotten. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

Greg B.> How did he know that, exactly? How did he know Demona wasn't under some variation of the same sleep spell as him for all those centuries? If we look at that one scene in which Goliath was present with the Weird Sisters convincing her and Macbeth at the end of "City of Stone," I can see how he might have gotten that she and Macbeth had a history, but I don't see how he would have gotten the immortality thing. And wouldn't some variation of the sleep spell have been the natural assumption at this point, without having any of their backstory? After all, as far as he knows, that's the only way it's possible that they're still alive and awake a thousand years later. And even if he did know that they'd been alive for a long time, but not that they couldn't be killed, who really uses the word 'immortal' to describe that? Usually, the word 'immortal' implies not just longevity, but also invincibility (with some allowance made for limits, like Kryptonite).

Anyway, I should clarify that I'm not trying to argue, nor am I against Greg or his storytelling. Aside from the Timedancer arc, I do love all the Gargoyles stories, and I also consider Greg to be a creative genius. But yeah, I do think there are some inconsistencies in the story, or at least some things that wouldn't be clear to someone who'd only followed the stories without having access to this website.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

ARLO> I don't see any inconsistencies with what Hudson said in "The Price" at all. They know Demona and Macbeth are immortal... but not how they are immortal. Where would they have learned of the link before this? It worked for me.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

I think Goliath had about as much influence on Demona as Demona had on Goliath, and that hadn't entirely gone away 26 years after Goliath was cursed to sleep.

Demona's decision to save Macbeth and Gruoch rather than kill Gillecomgain always reminded me quite a bit of Goliath's decision to save Katharine rather than pursue vengeance against Hakon and the Captain.

Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, of course, but most of what I'm refering to has to do with Demona telling Second that "...when the fighting has ended and Constantine lies dead we will dispatch the Grim and his battle-weary forces ourselves leaving the fate of Scotland to me!" I think that statement says a LOT. But what is striking is also what it doesn't say. She doesn't plan on world domination or genocide of humanity. So bigger than Castle Wyvern, but still much smaller than taking her "rightful place" as a gargoyle queen in a human-less world.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1931
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

Arlo> Um, where did Greg insist that inconsistencies in the story make sense with other info, or that Hudson's speech in "The Price" meant something other than what he said?
Supermorff

Matt> Well, those are certainly some interesting thoughts on Demona, but I don't see anything in that story which even remotely hints that that's her mindset, or that her plan is to create a gargoyle-only country, or even that her reasons for saving Macbeth and Gruoch are any more complex than still having a heart, and possibly seeing a little of her old self with Goliath in them. To be honest, I feel like it's stretching things quite a bit, that we have to make all these assumptions about her intentions that you've written, in order for the story to make any sense. In good storytelling, maybe there isn't enough time to get EVERYTHING in, and you have to count on your audience to assume a few things, but not this much.

Plus, at the end of "City of Stone" and again in "Hunter's Moon," she complains about the Hunter hunting her through the ages. Wasn't THAT supposed to be another of the great themes of Gargoyles, that she was driven to be so evil over the centuries because of the constant torment she created herself, only she couldn't see that she was the one who did it? So if your interpretation is correct, and she was already prepared to commit mass-murder before that (even if it's only killing all the people in a country, and not the entire world) that still, again, ruins a lot of the great themes of Gargoyles.

Now, to be fair, I have written similar things like what you wrote when trying to argue that TGC could be canon, so maybe this is just my own karma coming back to bite me. To be honest, I think Greg is the one who opened the door to these sorts of discussions, with his insistence, when questioned about inconsistencies in the story, that everything can make sense if we consider off-screen moments he hasn't shown us, or interpret a particular character to be meaning something else when it's actually pretty clear what they're saying (Hudson's speech on immortality in "The Price," for instance).

But I've also admitted that TGC's writing was very poor, because, among other things, the stories don't make sense unless you assume things that aren't readily apparent in the story. With all due respect, I think that's what you're trying to do here with Timedancer. But if I'm wrong, then please, by all means, correct me, and tell me where in the story (not on Ask Greg) there is justification for a reasonable person who's only followed the canon storyline to reach the conclusions you've reached, or to find Demona's behavior to be otherwise consistent.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

Matt> Thank you for those inspiring thoughts. It's always a pleasure to read your deliberations ^^
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Arlo> "...what we're getting is stuff he's adding to try to revise it all to make more sense, not the same story we would have gotten if he'd had the chance to write it back in 1996/97."

You say that like it is a bad thing. I think Greg (and the rest of the creative staff) did a top notch job with Gargoyles, of course, but I also think that Greg's abilities in writing and producing and directing have improved in the sixteen years since he finished working on the Gargoyles TV series. And Greg has also had a lot of opportunities to delve deeper and do more research and plot and plan and organize and discuss with the fans the story and timeline of the Gargoyles Universe. So, I agree with you that the Timedancer story would've been different if written in 1997, but I don't think different in this case neccesarily means better.

As for Demona in 997, I can see what you are saying, but I also see there is still a progression happening. Demona in 994 just wants the humans of Castle Wyvern to go away (or die) and leave her clan in peace. She wants security and justice for their mistreatment. Demona in 1996 is genocidal and wants to (and tries to) wipe out all humans on Earth. She wants vengeance for the perceived wrongs done against her and her kind. In 997 she has moved beyond her 994 goals, but has not begun to fathom her 1997 goals yet. In 997 she wants security for her clan and with the Grimorum as a potential tool and the conflict between Constantine and the Army of the Three Brothers as an opportunity she realizes it might be possible to establish Scotland as a gargoyle sanctuary and country (with her as the leader, of course). Just as Goliath's mindset would evolve beyond Castle Wyvern to encompass all of Manhattan (with steps towards the whole planet after the World Tour) Demona too began to extend her protectorate beyond just her clan and their hideouts. Perhaps all of Scotland could be her castle. And so she plotted to use the Battle of Rathveramoen as a chance to demilitarize the humans of the region. She probably imagined that if it all worked out Scotland could be depopulated of humans and gargoyles could thrive there. Humans could be kept out through force and the fear of the "monster-infested" region. This is a far step from destroying the human species. It reminds me of when the Archmage Plus was asking the Archmage what he would do with the Three Keys of Power and he feebly replied that perhaps he could conquer Scotland and the Archmage Plus mocked his idea and claimed that WORLD conquest was possible with so much power. Demona, like the Archmage, had yet to gain the ability to set her sights that high.

And after all was over and Demona's plan to conquer Scotland failed she and her clan went back into hiding. The Hunter continued to be a constant threat but she still was not genocidal towards humans. And the reasons she saved Macbeth and Gruoch are complex. There are many explanations for why she made that choice. And down the road when the opportunity for security for her clan again came with the alliance with Macbeth, she again took it. Demona's antipathy towards humans isn't a lightswitch that just changed, it really was a progression. And sometimes it might've been two steps forward and one step back, but that is just how things happen. Demona's actions in 997 make complete sense to me.

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"

Pradeep: According to Cartoon Network, in January 2013.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"I'm a voodoo child...Lord knows I'm a voodoo child, baby..." - Jimi Hendrix

when does other episodes of young justice will release season 2 211-220
Pradeep.G.Chagashetti - [pradeepchagashetti@gmail.com]
pradeep

Funnily enough, Constantine becoming a proto-Hunter made perfect sense to me, given what Maol Chalvim and Katharine said about him in "Avalon, Part One."

Maol Chalvim: "He hunts me even now!"

Katharine: "He will hunt me to the ends of the earth!"

Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]

So, I didn't see any mention of the fact that Gargoyles had its 18th birthday two days ago. Our show is now old enough to vote...
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]

Todd: Must you human kings name everything? ;)
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"I'm a voodoo child...Lord knows I'm a voodoo child, baby..." - Jimi Hendrix

Antiyonder> Not trying to argue, just stating my opinion (and in fact, I appreciate that you've responded and that this has at least generated some discussion here).

I actually tend to think it was pretty out of character. Looking at Wyvern, Demona was clearly willing to sacrifice the humans in the castle because they'd mistreated her and her clan. Looking at what she did to Gil as a young boy, she clearly hated humans in a way. But looking at how she saved Macbeth and Gruoch, she clearly also still had a heart, and wasn't completely evil yet. She wasn't capable of, say, mass murder, like what she committed in the present-time scenes in "City of Stone" but not the flashbacks.

In my opinion, the Timedancer arc just ruins a lot of the great points of the multi-part episode that was what drew a lot of fans into the series to begin with.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

I was reading a book about knights, castles, and medieval warfare today. One of the sections I read was about trebuchets (a kind of siege engine). It said that King Edward I of England had several trebuchets with names; one of them was "Warwolf". I remembered that word from the description of Edward's wars with Scotland in the Stone of Destiny story. At the time, I had thought it was probably just another word for "army", but I looked at my copy of "Clan-Building Part Two", and saw what looked like a trebuchet in the drawing of Edward and his army attacking a Scottish castle. (The book didn't say if he used that particular trebuchet during his invasion of Scotland; I'll have to see if I can find out more in other books on that subject.)
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Arlo> Ok, I see the point you're making about Demona, but looking at Brooklyn's dialogue again, she still was responsible for the Wyvern Massacre.

And even if the entire clan survived that night, she was still willing to allow for the humans in the castle to be captured and possiably killed. So I really can't say that her actions in the story were completely out of character at that point.

Antiyonder

I guess it did have its good points, and yeah more stories set in the medieval period are always good. The problem I have with learning more of Bodhe and Gillecomgain's backstories is that it's painfully obvious (from things Greg's written on here, historical inaccuracies in the original "City of Stone" story, mistakes with no one recognizing Gil as the Hunter, etc.) that what we're getting is stuff he's adding to try to revise it all to make more sense, not the same story we would have gotten if he'd had the chance to write it back in 1996/97.

Also, the writing, in my opinion, isn't up to par with Greg's other stories. Brooklyn's constant thinking monologues make it feel like a lot of other comics, and like other comics, they also aren't subtle at all (as when he basically throws it in your face that going back to Wyvern disturbs him). That's just not the kind of storytelling I'm used to getting from Greg. He's more skilled than that. And then Brooklyn's quick realization that he has to fulfill a certain goal for the Phoenix to send him home... it's just too cliched for me, I've seen it done on too many other series for it to be believable here.

And then the way Demona plans to betray the humans and destroy them all... kind of the point of the "City of Stone" arc was that we saw Demona's gradual fall from grace. Gargoyles is a deep show in part because it taught us that being evil isn't just something that happens, it's a gradual fall that you don't see coming. Demona in the "City of Stone" flashbacks had done terrible things, but she still didn't hate humans enough not to save young Macbeth and Gruoch. She still didn't have a problem fighting alongside Macbeth and being his second in command, and so on. The story was of her fall, but in the Timedancer arc, she's apparently already fallen enough to be her full evil self before any of those events happened. So that great, deep lesson we learned from "City of Stone" is basically thrown out the window.

I get what you guys are saying. It did have some good points. But as much as I've tried, the story just isn't doing it for me. In my opinion, it definitely isn't Greg's best work.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

Yeah, all the new gargoyles (both in Demona's Clan and Katana, Gnash, Fu-Dog and Egwardo) are part of what makes the Timedancer story awesome, as well as the expansion of "City Of Stone" and "Avalon" characters. I was surprised about how much I came to understand and really enjoy Bodhe's character because of this story, particularly after talking to Greg about it at the last Gathering. Such an interesting character. And what is not to like about an epic LOTR-esque battle involving large numbers of humans and gargoyles?! That two-page spread of the Battle of Rathveramoen is just gorgeous and so cool.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"

I love the Timedancer comics because I love Demona's Clan, Brooklyn interacting with them and scenes from medieval Scotland in general. This part could have been far longer for me, maybe like 5 issues, lol.
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

I always enjoy the Scottish history, so it was nice to see more of it. Kenneth III, Findlaech, more of Gillecomgain, the overthrowing of Constantine. Mary and especially Finella are cool characters, so it was cool seeing them and finding out what happened to them.

Of course, more Demona is always welcome, in all of her backstabbing brutality.

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

Arlo> Several moments I enjoy in the arc:

1. Overall expanding on the background of the Gargoyles Universe and giving focus to characters last seen in City of Stone and Avalon.

2a. Brooklyn having to hold his resentment towards Demona and act as a friend.

2b. Plus I really like the scene where he tries to remind himself that it's a younger Demona only to acknowledge that she is still the traitor who caused the Wyvern Massacre. I don't know. I guess it's because it's an overall reminder to some readers that even in the old days, Demona wasn't a saint.

3. As a Brooklyn fan, I've actually waited for this story since I first heard of the Master Plan back when I read in the early 2000s. So it's cool to see him getting his mate, especially with the preceding chapters of the comic showing his reaction to Broadway and Angela.

4. And well, it was interesting enough when Angela joined the clan back in the middle of Season 2, so ending the story with 4 new gargoyles (3 gargoyles and an egg) adds to the excitement of getting new stories.

Antiyonder

I tried reading the Timedancer story arc again, and I still don't like it. I'm sorry, I really tried to give it a shot, but I just don't get what you guys are seeing in it. I greatly enjoy the other SLG comics. I can hear the actor's voices reading the lines, and hear the show's music in the background, just like Weisman said you should be able to. And I liked the Bad Guys arc very much. But Timedancer just isn't cutting it for me. I just don't see it.
Arlo

Spen -- lol, I had almost forgotten myself (busy day) until I saw the post on GregXB's blog . . .

Still -- totally watching some Gargoyles after tonight's South Park d:

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Wait, what?

Today I found the homepage of this one German medieval band (if you can call that a "band") and was pretty impressed by the design. xD
http://www.tancredo-und-lothar.de/data/main.htm

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Seriously, only one person noticed that it's national Gargoyles day?
Spen

Perhaps a post to say HAPPY ANNIVERSARY will spice things up around here :)

Yep, EIGHTEEN years ago today, "Awakening: Part One" first aired!

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Wow. And what's truly impressive is that you both saw this and posted back in the exact same minute.

Brainiac> Double whammy for you. Nice.

Paul> Yeah, the chance to see a different culture in each game was a very nice touch. Definitely something that's underdone in adventure games.

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

Thanks, Arlo. Hopefully Hero U becomes a thing; I wish Lori and Corey all the best.

I guess what I liked most about the Quest for Glory games was that they took place in many different parts of the "world"; it reminds me of the Avalon World Tour, in a way.

Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]

Arlo> I know the guy on the byline as well. It's a cool thing to see on two levels.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Deal with a demon in 1040. Officially died in 1057.

Paul & Brainiac> New York Post interview with Corey Cole, if you haven't seen it already: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/gamereport/interview_with_cori_cole_creator_fo3JcablCc214MdZhtEh1M

Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.

Integrity is never easy. It's a daily struggle, a costly struggle. If you only knew what it cost me: My Anastasia. My JaNINE.
Anthony Tini - [anthonyotini@gmail.com]

Phoenician: I'm rather surprised that entry has never been filled with a reference to Otto Octavius' "lucky number," myself.

But that one works too. XD

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"I'm a voodoo child...Lord knows I'm a voodoo child, baby..." - Jimi Hendrix

"I h-EIGHT you. SO much." -- Rhino to Spider-Man, ("Reinforcement")

;)

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

"A SEVENty-year-old address. Not much to go on."
Ross
"Oh villain! Villain! Smiling cursed villain! That one might smile and smile, and be a villain! Gooo VILLAIN! Whooooo! Yeah!" -- Sally Avril

"Thirty-SIX."

"Nine."

Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]

KIM POSSIBLE: "See, Ron, you make a great big brother! But you'd get more out of it if you were cooing over your sister instead of a bag of...hold on. There's NO way Barkin would've ever given you Sacky V...I mean, FIVE."

RON STOPPABLE: "Oh, well actually, this is Sacky VIII."

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"I'm a voodoo child...Lord knows I'm a voodoo child, baby..." - Jimi Hendrix

I've been out of quotes FOUR a while...Sorry.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
The premise of your question is flawed. You were never human. But you WERE heroes.~~Red Tornado

Hmmm.... Very convenient...

"... Not when you have THREE young warriors to choose from. And choose you must."

Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"

"You were my SECOND. And I passed the job to you. There's no point in going backwards..."
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"

"You mean- the TWO of you-" "It was love at first flight."
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]

First the humans I'll attend...then the gargoyles will I mend. If his efforts you commend, free Puck - let him homeward wend.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!