A Station Eight Fan Web Site

Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending December 2, 2012

Index : Hide Images

Hey Garg fans!
To indicate your interest in the Gargoyles series returning you can call the audience feedback hotline 1(818) 460-7477 or email support@disneyonline.com (use it from their website as well). The phone number also offers a snail mail address option. I also discovered a Facebook Gargoyles fan page that started in June 2012 here: http://www.facebook.com/gargoyles?fref=ts
If the FB link doesn't work just type "Gargoyles" in to the Facebook search engine. There's also an awesome link on that FB page to all the series episodes that you can see in their entirety on the nicely re-vamped Disney website!
So let's keep hope alive!!

Cheryl - [cherylkiai@gmail.com]
-Cheryl K

Was the site down for you too?
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Allyna-Alisa: My immediate guess is that it refers to "Companions," i.e. any being/creature that isn't a human, humanoid alien, or humanoid robot.

Ross: Heh, I've been greatly enjoying that "section" of the RP as well. And since there are actually 4 Links on Formspring right now (from different points in the timeline), that video actually makes for a rather timely companion piece.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"You've got to be all mine, all mine...ooh, Foxy Lady..." - Jimi Hendrix

Anthony> Wow. Thanks for the link, that was an excellent video.

And hey, LoZ stuff has been happening in the multiverse storyline that expanded from the Garg/SpecSpidey Formspring RP, so there's some connection there!

Ross
"Oh villain! Villain! Smiling cursed villain! That one might smile and smile, and be a villain! Gooo VILLAIN! Whooooo! Yeah!" -- Sally Avril

Anyone know what the "C-series" of Young Justice is called? Since the "A-series" is for Authorised Guests and the "B-series" is for the Team, I figured the "C-series must have a name too. Anyone know what it is?
Allyna-Alisa
Allyna-Alisa

That was a great video. Thanks for sharing. Kind of wish I'd finished Skyward Sword before watching it, though.
Supermorff

Anthony: I saw that the day is came out, and I have to agree with most of the people in the comments: bar-none, it's the best single video Gametrailers has ever produced. They put together some really epic and iconic visuals and edited it masterfully.

Re:Gargoyles online videos: While they may be the edited versions of the episodes, it's not like the other full episodes on YouTube are any different. And the official ones are better quality than the Disney XD rips.

In any event, it at least gives fans a place to watch Episodes 40-65 while recording the hits in a way Disney might pay attention to. It's not much, but it's definitely something (especially given that very few other archival shows have gotten this treatment).

Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"You've got to be all mine, all mine...ooh, Foxy Lady..." - Jimi Hendrix

I don't think Disney has delivered anything-since we don't have uncensored episodes and we don't have a physical format we can purchase. Dunno what Disney is thinking. The Youtube versions aren't available to Canada-only the Disney website ones.
Wingless

Well, Disney did say that they might release the rest of Gargoyles sometime in 2012... I guess we can't really say they didn't deliver, even though I'd love to see the episodes in their full uncensored glory.
Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]

Sorry to interrupt any Gargoyles conversation, but I'd like to share link this for all the Legend of Zelda fans out there:

http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/en597n/timeline-the-legend-of-zelda

Anthony Tini

Landon> What's interesting is there's a private video between Walkabout and Pendragon in the S2 playlist, so it looks like Mark of the Panther is uploaded, just unavailable.

There's also one missing from The Goliath Chronicles playlist (along with another private video). Guess who's nowhere to be found once again.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

StarCreator - Their YouTube page is only missing Mark of the Panther and Sentinel: http://www.youtube.com/user/disneysshows/videos?query=gargoyles&flow=grid&view=1 They also have season playlists, so it's easier to follow.

Disney could have put Gargoyles on iTunes years ago and made money. Now they've put them all on YouTube, which isn't exactly novel if you bothered to do a search. Disney just doesn't make sense most of the time.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Those episodes are still censored, though; for example, in "Ill Met by Moonlight," Elisa's line about silver bullets and Katharine's line about vampires and weres are still censored out.
Paul - [nampahcfluap@yahoo.com]

StarCreator> We've noticed, but thanks for the reminder. I've watched The Hound of Ulster this way, but poking around for some other episodes can't hurt.
Harlan Phoenix

SUPERMORFF - Yes, I look upon that as a big mistake - and all the more so because it made it harder for us to find people to work on "TGS: Pendragon" after that. It gave them the impression that you had to be an Arthurian scholar to participate in its construction.

Today is St. Andrew's Day, commemmorating the patron saint of Scotland.

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Re: TGS Pendragon> My main problem with TGS Pendragon was that the first handful of stories were all flashbacks, primarily retellings of the original myths, with very little action in the present day. It got better, but even as I was reading it I was thinking that there was no way that the actual series would do it that way.
Supermorff

Has anyone noticed that Disney has Gargoyles episodes streaming for free on their website? I was trying to use it to finally rewatch the second half of the second season; haven't been able to see it for many years now since it never hit DVD and I don't have cable TV service. The only problem was, the episodes aren't completely in order and four episodes (Golem, Walkabout, Mark of the Panther, and Sentinel) appear to be completely missing. Anyone else try watching the episodes this way? Click my name to get there!
StarCreator

Todd: I've wondered if the cross-species love in that episode was a reference to the live action Beauty and the Beast series, what with him living in the sewer.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]

CHIP - Yes, we did discuss that a bit, though the fact that the people most interested in writing for "TGS: Pendragon" were either British or Anglophiles probably had a lot to do with that.

[SPOILER] I also think that the notion - which started from an uncertain rumor - that Duval's identity was Lancelot rather than Percival (maybe; the situation in the Stone of Destiny story is certainly too complicated to solve without further Illuminati stories from Greg Weisman) gave us some real headaches. [/SPOILER]

One funny part; we got some criticism over having [SPOILER] London gargoyles who didn't look like lions, unicorns, or griffons, and now we know about Constance and Staghart. [/SPOILER]

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Todd> Interestingly, I don't feel that conflict exists with the Formspring Rory [SPOILER] Who has also been Knighted [/SPOILER]. Largely because at this Point, King Arthur and his knights play on the 'Far Larger Stage' that the Lady of the Lake spoke of in 'Pendragon'.

[SPOILER] New Camelot allows Rory access to Ireland whenever he is needed there. He hasn't abandoned his protectorate, he's expanded it. [/SPOILER]

My biggest beef with TGS Pendragon was that Arthur remained in England pretty much throughout the whole series. What happened to 'The World Needing a Leader'? Arthur was meant to play on a far larger stage, and I feel that the TGS seriously failed in that regard. No offense to you or the other writers of TGS.

Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
"Well done, Frank Zhang," Leo said dryly... "That is exactly how people beat Chinese handcuffs. They turn into iguanas."

Why is there a picture of Elisa on the wall? xD
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdjk7lMh5u1ql6y8co1_1280.jpg
I never noticed that until I saw it on tumblr....

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

HARLAN PHOENIX - I haven't seen that story, unfortunately (the local PBS station only showed a couple of episodes from the Hartnell and Troughton eras), but I've read the novelization and enjoyed it.

I saw a Series Three "Doctor Who" two-parter today set in New York during the Depression that reminded me of "Gargoyles" in a few places. Among them:

[SPOILER] Homeless people being experimented on and mutated into animal-people, though based on pigs rather than large cats.
A grand scheme set in a New York skyscraper, though the just-completed Empire State Building here (which even looked a bit "Eyrie Building"-ish at times).
A seemingly impossible love affair (less impossible than Goliath and Elisa's, admittedly, since it's between a human and a "pig mutate" rather than between a human and someone born a non-human). [/SPOILER]


I've fond memories of working on "TGS: Pendragon" as well, though there are still several things about it that I'd change if I did it all over again. (For example, I look upon Rory Dugan becoming one of Arthur's knights as a mistake; I think from the end of "The Hound of Ulster" that his place was in Ireland, and that it was as wrong for him to leave it for Britain as it would have been for Goliath and his clan to desert Manhattan to enter Arthur's service.)

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Spotted this nice mention of 'Gargoyles' on io9 and thought I'd mention it (linked to my name).

Glad to see TGS: Pendragon get talked up. I always loved that series (and was glad to get to work on Season 4(. It's a bit hard to start though since Season 1 goes in a quite different direction and Season 2 is merged with 'Gargoyles'. Season 3 is great though. Or so I recall. Can't believe it's been more than 10 years since I read it...

Ed

Harlan Phoenix> Not all of them, just the ones about "magical Gargoyles".... that always makes me angry, and I'm not even sure why.
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Todd> That was my first episode of Doctor Who. That one's a lot of fun. There's another great story involving literature back during the Second Doctor, "The Mind Robber", that's also a pretty good time.

Comet> I don't get why the comments would be so anger inducing.

Harlan Phoenix

I forgot to mention this, but the most recent episode I've seen of "Doctor Who" (as I start on Series Three) might appeal to "Gargoyles" fans. It had the Doctor meet Shakespeare [SPOILER] and team up with him to defeat three alien witches who were trying to use his newest play, the lost "Love's Labor's Won", and the architecture of the Globe Theatre, as a way to invade Earth - and features the Doctor providing Shakespeare with a few of his best-known lines. A lot of fun. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Harlan Phoenix> Um, what? What made me angry were some comments, not the article itself :O
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Comet> You take Cracked too seriously.
Harlan Phoenix

JURGAN - Though Harvester's sig probably spoiled that as well.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Todd: I get what you're saying, and those are certainly great lines, but I'd say just saying that [SPOILER] the daleks [/SPOILER] are in the series 2 finale is a spoiler- it was a pretty big surprise. But if you liked that, the S3 finale is even better. The S4 finale is bigger, though not necessarily better, and that's as far as I've gotten.

As for the on-topic discussion: My main problem with TGS was the wasted ideas. I remember some woman turning herself into a mutate, and I expected her to go on a rampage of killing that reenergized the Quarreymen. Instead, she did absolutely nothing, and the Quarreymen were eliminated not long after by an OC who stole his name from a Beatle. I stopped reading shortly thereafter and I didn't even finish the first season.

Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]

HARVESTER - Afraid not - and since I've only started on Series Three (I came late to the new series, though I was familiar with the original series starting from when I began watching it on PBS in 1989), I'll probably avoid them until I get caught up all the way to Series Seven. (And, as I admitted this morning, yes, I should have included those "Spoilers" tags, though I guess I hadn't thought of them because they were around a few humorous lines rather than big revelations - more the counterpart of Brooklyn's wisecracks than, say, [SPOILER] Owen and Puck are the same guy, Titania is Fox's mother, the Stone of Destiny is just a vessel for the Spirit of Destiny that can speak through any rock anywhere in the world, [/SPOILER] etc. But I've learned from that.

[SPOILER] I thought it a bit weird that the Cybermen in Series Two weren't the original Cybermen, but their counterparts on an alternate Earth - though it did seem appropriate in a sense, since the Cybermen from the original series came from a twin-planet to Earth that drifted away from the solar system. So they use the idea again of "Cybermen came from Earth's twin", but a parallel Earth, which viewers will probably be more ready to buy than Earth having a twin-planet, even in a series where the protagonist's time machine looks like a police box. [/SPOILER]

Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

At least there seem to be many people who noticed the error.... what disturbs me even more is when someone says Gargoyles would be "created by magic" or their stone sleep would be "magical".
I seriously had to laugh about the article itself, but THIS makes me just angry.

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Phoenecian: Yeah, I came to post that. I found myself arguing/complaining a lot in the comments.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]

That made me laugh so hard. xD
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Silly Renard running away from me d:
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Looks like Cracked.com is in need of browsing the AskGreg archives (or just a good ol' Wiki-walk on the GargWiki) to read up on all that fun Gargoyles biology d:

http://www.cracked.com/article_20090_6-creepy-things-you-never-noticed-about-famous-kids-cartoons.html

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Personally, I'd recommend removing the church, but that's just me.

Todd: [SPOILER] Yes, that whole episode is classic. I wasn't very thrilled with what they did with the Cybermen in the new series. They struck me as what you get if you combine the Daleks with the Borg, in that Daleks want to kill all life in the universe that isn't a Dalek, whereas Cybermen want to change all life in the universe into Cybermen. But it was great seeing them interact. That episode has some of my favorite lines as well.

Rose: "You didn't need to kill him!"
Dalek Sec: "But neither did we need him alive!"

I also enjoyed the scene where Rose identifies the Doctor in the image to the Cult of Skaro (because they apparently were in limbo during his last few regenerations), and they react by sliding backwards a few inches. One of a few scenes where they succeeded in giving them some personality, despite the fact that they're not supposed to have any. [/SPOILER]


Out of curiousity, are there any Doctor Who forums you frequent? I wouldn't mind talking more elsewhere.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"You are superior to us in only one respect: you are better at dying!" -Dalek Sec ("Doctor Who")

WTF? xD
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

... Maybe you should move.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"

My roommates and I have a gargoyle in our living room window that faces a church directly across the street. I wonder if having it faced towards a church is a bad thing? We've been experiencing weird happenings in the house. I live directly across from the church, and directly above a funeral home. Should we remove the gargoyle??
Katie - [katlyne.r@gmail.com]
Katie

CHIP - Sorry.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Harvester>The Five Man Band has sixteen people.
Harlan Phoenix

Todd...As someone who is currently making their way through Doctor Who: [SPOILER] SPOILER TAGS EXIST FOR A REASON!!!!!!!!!!!! [/SPOILER]
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
"Well done, Frank Zhang," Leo said dryly... "That is exactly how people beat Chinese handcuffs. They turn into iguanas."

I haven't read TGS in ages, and even then, only in pieces. For some reason what's sticking out in my mind at the moment was the way that Brooklyn's children and their gargoyle beast were written like focus group characters that would be added by executives, even though TGS was a fan project written for adult nerds
Pterobat - [incisivis@gmail.com]

HARVESTER - Thanks for the sig. I've started watching the revived "Doctor Who" series on DVD recently (I was fond of the original series when it aired on the local PBS station some years ago), got up just past the end of Series Two, and that showdown between the Daleks and the Cybermen was a delight, especially when they take turns insulting each other before the battle (from which you took the quote). I also got a kick out of the part where the Cybermen mention the Daleks' "inelegant design" - "Daleks have no sense of elegance!" "This is obvious." - and "You have declared war on the Cybermen." "This is not war; this is pest control."
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders

Okay, that helped so far.
I'm pretty sure I did read that blog post some months ago, though... it made me avoid TGS even more. Then I decided that it was maybe time to give TGS another chance because it's nice to have some new stories now and then, and most fanfic doesn't interest me (too far-fetched) or is simply crappy.

I never understood why Brooklyn's family had such stupid names. But this is very common in many fics, and many Gargoyle OCs have also stupid names. Seriously, is it so hard to think about something with background, something meaningful, as a name?

How about "Dark Ages"? Is that good (as far as possible for TGS...), okay, or at least readable? Since it is, you know, the part that I'm interested in most (followed by Pendragon).

But I found a surprisingly good fic at DA recently. I don't know if you know it already, but here it is:
Part 1: http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/143/1/e/once_upon_a_time__there_were_three_brothers_ch__1_by_talialevid-d4ewhii.html
Part 2: http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/143/4/a/once_upon_a_time__there_were_three_brothers_ch__2_by_talialevid-d4i30gj.html
I was able to read it without ever having to quit because of annoyance... which happens rarely with fanfic. Although there was a tiny part which made me grimace a bit, but I won't tell here what it was.

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Sorry to double post, but I did want to add: if you want to read a really good fanfic series that tries to stay true to the characters, check this out:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Roleplay/TheSpectacularGargoyles

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"You are superior to us in only one respect... you are better at dying!" -Dalek Sec ("Doctor Who")

Why the TGS staff didn't just give Brooklyn an adult beast, I'll never understand...

Comet: The problem with avoiding OCs is that that pretty much cancels out just about every TGS story, because it reached a point where you couldn't move without tripping over one, especially in the later episodes.

Now that being said, the episodes I do recommend are the ones that at least attempted to explore complex moral issues like the canon series did, and fic author self-indulgence aside, actually did that reasonably well. It's been six or seven years since I looked at a TGS story, so the only example I can think of right now is "Lethe." If I'm thinking of the right story.

If nothing else, I recommend you do browse the art gallery (I think the website has one), because some great artists were involved in it, and many of them are still cranking out great art today.

I also recommend checking out "Pendragon." I do remember that being my favorite TGS series.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"You are superior to us in only one respect... you are better at dying!" -Dalek Sec ("Doctor Who")

ANTIYONDER> While planning the "third season" of TGS, one of the top editors at the time said "you can't have Thailog do that, it's mean!"
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

Comet> To cut to the chase, Greg B's blog explains the fic pretty well: http://gregxb.blogspot.com/2011/09/tgs-regretful-retrospect.html

Read only if you don't mind the spoilers. But to sum up some problems:
[SPOILER] - Xanatos is pretty much a simplistic good guy, like in The Goliath Chronicles. To give some credit, at least the fic explores the lack of trust that the clan should have, whereas TGC pretty much had them all chummy past The Journey.

- Demona reforms all because of how much she loves her daughter. Yeah, the same daughter who's life she was willing to risk in Hunter's Moon, Part 3 to cover her escape.

- And yeah, there's also making the clan into humans with wings.

- The Quarrymen come to an end very easily and by a couple of newly introduced characters. [/SPOILER]


And again, the irony really gets me. You have plenty of tamer cartoons (Kim Possible, Spongebob Squarepants and Darkwing Duck) that have spawned some really dark and adult fics, yet some of the writers behind TGS thought it would be better to go into reverse with Gargoyles, because?

Antiyonder

Oh, and I tend to stop reading once I see an OC.
I know that TGS is full of them, of course, it would be hard to write about an obscure future without OCs...
But most OCs I've seen so far have stupid names and are Sues/Stus or self-inserts (or all of it). :/

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Are there parts of TGS you can recommend? I'm extremely reserved about the whole thing and of course I know that nothing of it is canon. But I'm always searching for good(!) fanfiction, so I thought I could ask here. There are so many stories and English is not my first language, so it can become really stressful to simply read ALL of it.

Good fanfiction for me = as near to canon as possible, no "humans with wings", no extremely far-fetched stuff. And I prefer medieval stuff.

Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

I could not resist. Here is GargWiki's newest entry!

http://gargwiki.net/Staple_Gun

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
Here's the problem with most fanfic writers: they seem to think Dominique is a second life. It isn't. Demona spelled it plainly in "High Noon." She's a gargoyle. Dominique is just a tool to help her in her goals. She'll use the form because she changes into a human, whether she likes it or not, but Dominique is not another life for her.

Oh, gee thanks Brainiac! :P
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I did it! I watched all 485 Best picture nominees in 365 days!

Tenth.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
The premise of your question is flawed. You were never human. But you WERE heroes.~~Red Tornado

The NINE is mine!
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!

Eight
Supermorff

Uh... SEVEN year itch.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"

SIXTH!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

I'll take the (5th)Fifth!!!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]

FOUR score and seven years ago...
Anthony Tini

On the other hand, THREE's a crowd.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]

TWO can be as bad as one, it's the loneliest number since the number one...
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"You've got to be all mine, all mine...ooh, Foxy Lady..." - Jimi Hendrix

May I be the first to welcome you all to turkey coma recovery week? Even if you're not American, we still welcome you.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!