Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Supermorff> Exactly. Which is why I suspect that they don't have proper names given to them. I think Brooklyn assigned him the name most readily available: Fu-Dog. Everyone else called him Fu-Dog, so Brooklyn did too... of course, they probably called all the beasts Fu-Dog. So in a sense, you could say that Fu-Dog is the only member of the Manhattan Clan without a name.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"
posted @ Sun, Dec 23, 2012 3:40:20 pm EST from 99.92.109.252

Matt> I'm pretty sure Fu-Dog is the generic "name" for all the garg beasts of Xanadu.
Supermorff
posted @ Sat, Dec 22, 2012 5:40:03 pm EST from 71.200.238.59

Matt> The sick dude from Austria who kept his daughter in his basement and impregnated her, that came out in the news several years ago...

The children that were never allowed to leave the basement were found to communicate with each other with basic grunts to indicate different things. So I think it's reasonable to say human beings do develop some sort of language on their own. Some animal species do the same thing, having slightly differently pitched calls to indicate different things, like trouble coming, and so on. So I think it's extremely likely that human beings do this as a matter of nature.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Sat, Dec 22, 2012 1:21:24 pm EST from 173.54.75.211

ANON> Discworld Death couldn't/wouldn't even bring back his own daughter and son in-law. And he has no jurisdiction in the SpecGargVerse anyway.
Algernon
posted @ Sat, Dec 22, 2012 1:17:41 pm EST from 86.40.144.209

Masterdramon> Thanks for posting that essay. It was very interesting and I look forward to Greg's response to it. I tend to think, given the structure of our brains, that most Homo species (including neanderthalis and erectus) had language of some form before Homo sapiens emerged and I think a newborn raised in isolation from language would still somehow develop a language all their own unless they were raised without people around at all. It certainly would not be English or any other established language, but I think it would happen just because two or more humans living and working together need to communicate somehow. Isn't that how sign language developed? Deaf kids just started working out a symbolic language with each other in the absence of a verbal one.

My guess is that pre-human gargoyle language was largely based on body language with grunts, growls and other verbal-ish noises thrown in. I don't think they needed much more than that. And I think that you are right about the human influence that has changed gargoyle "language" so much by the time we meet them in the 10th century. Personal naming is the only holdout and as "Goliath" shows, even it is under threat already. By the 20th century, I imagine nearly all gargoyles have adapted personal names to some extent or another.

I do have hope for the old ways in at least three clans, however. In the Mayan Clan, it looks like only the pendant wearers possessed names... and even these names were more like honorary titles that would move on with the passing of the pendants. Greg has indicated that they may or may not continue this tradition with the hatching of the 1998 clutch, but I hope they do. We know exceptionally little about the New Olympus Clan and Xanadu Clans, but I wonder if they hold on to the old ways. The New Olympus Clan, given their escape from humanity and isolationist ways, may have the most archaic gargoyle language still around, which includes a lack of personal names. And the Xanadu Clan may be free of the excessive human influence as well. I suspect that Fu-Dog was nameless before he accompanied Brooklyn.

Another thought is that Brooklyn himself might've introduced naming to the Ishimura Clan and/or others. It would certainly be ironic that a gargoyle would/could be responsible for disrupting a traditional part of gargoyle culture.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"
posted @ Sat, Dec 22, 2012 12:57:06 pm EST from 99.92.109.252

haha okay. Good memory. I didn't even remember it had anything to do with Hunter's Moon until I saw it.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Sat, Dec 22, 2012 12:31:08 pm EST from 173.54.75.211

ARLO> Well, it was a recent question. And these days the few "Gargoyles" questions asked stand out among the fifty thousand "how old is random DC character" and "did Wally ever find Artemis' belly button lint" questions, that I just remembered the question you posted and found it in the Goliath section of the archive.
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."
posted @ Sat, Dec 22, 2012 12:03:25 pm EST from 24.185.74.60

Greg B> Ah, that was it, thanks! How did you find it?
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Sat, Dec 22, 2012 11:47:40 am EST from 173.54.75.211

Chip's mention of [SPOILER] Demona's scheme on Formspring [/SPOILER] reminds me of [SPOILER] the Daleks' Reality Bomb scheme at the end of the fourth season of the revived "Doctor Who" series - though since their scheme would have wiped out *everyone and everything* in every universe, rather than just humans, I think their plot tops hers. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are great finders
posted @ Sat, Dec 22, 2012 6:29:15 am EST from 108.226.1.5

Anonymous: While there are plenty of Deaths on Formspring (everyone from "Gargoyles"' own Anubis to the "Darkwing Duck" Grim Reaper to Marty, the Reaper from the now-erased "American Dragon: Jake Long" Universe)...

None of them tend to be very keen on the concept of resurrection.

[Although the Deaths of the main DC and Marvel Universes probably are a little less picky...Death of the Endless in particular is pretty blase about it in "Superman: The Black Ring."]
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Hello darkness, my old friend...I've come to talk with you again..." - Simon and Garfunkel
posted @ Sat, Dec 22, 2012 4:38:02 am EST from 134.173.88.59

Chip: Agreed. It was especially cool to see [SPOILER] the intersection of the SpecGargs RP and the bigger picture RPs in the other Gate-connected Universes. The players did a great job of making that all fit together organically. Special props to the wrap-up scene at the end with Narnia's Reepicheep and D.D. Warrior Lady from "Yu-Gi-Oh!"

And yes, as with any good "Gargoyles" story...repercussions are everything. Demona's and Thomeheb's scheme cost good lives, and the thought of what'll happen to Nick's and Beth's twins now...

Well, I'm saddened. But hopeful as well.

Which is the mark of a damn well-done story arc. Bravo to the players, all around. [/SPOILER]
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Hello darkness, my old friend...I've come to talk with you again..." - Simon and Garfunkel
posted @ Sat, Dec 22, 2012 4:26:19 am EST from 134.173.88.59

You know, after watching the SFDebris review of "Hogfather", I couldn't help but think; doesn't Discworld's Death also have a Formspring account? If that's the case, then those lost from the current "event" could be brought back. Perhaps it can be a "Christmas/Hogswatch" miracle?

Well, it's just one thing to consider...
Anonymous
posted @ Sat, Dec 22, 2012 4:23:32 am EST from 173.51.67.203

Yay!!!! [SPOILER] Demona's plan to cast a spell to destroy every human in every Universe FAILED. And as a Human who live in a Universe, I am relieved. A round of applause for the Formspring Players, please. A plot thread that they built up for over a year, and they executed it beautifully. Rest in Peace, Beth Maza, Natsilane, and Vinnie's mom. [/SPOILER]
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
I am Bad. And that's good. I will never be Good. And that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be, than me~~Bad Guy Affirmation
posted @ Sat, Dec 22, 2012 12:44:56 am EST from 24.217.38.192

ARLO> Is this what you were looking for?

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=17130
Greg Bishansky - [<--- Greg's Blog of Clue-by-Fours]
"For every two dozen Phantom Menaces, there is a Return of the King. For every two-bit Shyamalan, a Stanley Kubrick is born. For every poor soul who groans during an Adam Sandler-funded Rob Schneider vehicle, there is a child crying life-affirming tears when Bambi's mom is shot. Somewhere out there, a film student is finding out what Rosebud means for the first time. A man is pausing as Fredo prays the Hail Mary on a boat over Lake Tahoe. A woman grasps her heart as Bogie's love flies off into the foggy night. All it takes is one moment to change a person. And that one moment... no matter how fleeting... is worth a thousand Transformers."
posted @ Fri, Dec 21, 2012 11:13:04 pm EST from 24.185.74.60

Also, this isn't the question I'm looking for, but here: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=17415 I can't tell whether he likes me or hates me, because on the one hand he keeps saying it's been answered before, but then he typed out a lot, and he linked me to the post where I can get the answer, which he normally never does.

OMGZ I FEEL LIEK IM IN JUNIOR HIGH AGAIN!!!!!!!!!
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Fri, Dec 21, 2012 9:31:05 pm EST from 173.54.75.211

Thing is I don't even know which category to look in. I completely forgot what it was even about. I've wanted to ask so many things on here that I never got around to asking, so I have no idea which one I actually asked.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Fri, Dec 21, 2012 9:13:15 pm EST from 173.54.75.211

Ctrl+F, then typing in the username you submitted the question with, presumably.
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Fri, Dec 21, 2012 8:28:15 pm EST from 76.2.70.200

How does one go about finding one's questions if they aren't in Latest Responses anymore and you can't remember what you asked?
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Fri, Dec 21, 2012 7:15:13 pm EST from 173.54.75.211

I wonder what the Mayan Clan would think about that doomsday myth.
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Fri, Dec 21, 2012 6:41:06 pm EST from 80.187.111.64

Masterdramon -- I read the whole thing before it got the stamp of approval in the queue d: You're essay got me thinking about newborn communication/understandings for the first time since I took Psych 101-ish at college -- almost forgotten how interesting all of that can be. (hey, what can I say? All the little dibbuns in the family have grown up. . .) Really looking forward to Greg's thoughts about it man.

And thanks for the heads up about the Young Justice t-shirt, Greg Weisman -- it's definitely on my Christmas list this year -- (now thinking about it, its the first time I'll be getting Hot Topic merchandise since the Gargoyles t-shirts . . .)
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Dec 21, 2012 3:16:10 am EST from 68.231.100.47

Since it got a bit of a reaction when I first mentioned it here, I figured I'd link my Contemporary Political Theory paper on gargoyle namelessness, which I have now copied to Ask Greg:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=17791
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Hello darkness, my old friend...I've come to talk with you again..." - Simon and Garfunkel
posted @ Fri, Dec 21, 2012 2:32:57 am EST from 134.173.88.59

You're a better man than I am, Masterdramon.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
I am Bad. And that's good. I will never be Good. And that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be, than me~~Bad Guy Affirmation
posted @ Wed, Dec 19, 2012 11:22:05 pm EST from 24.217.48.197

Steel_goliath: I would have deleted that post for breaking Guidelines #1 (Spoiler Requests) and #10 (Questions on Multiple Topics).

In the future, please break up questions about Oberon, about magic in the Gargoyles Universe, and about the technology of the Hunters into separate posts. And please refrain from asking questions that would require an entire story to answer (like "What are his relationships with the entire Avalon Clan?"), because there's no way to give a single answer to them without either (A) spoiling a future story or (B) requiring Greg W. to spend an hour responding to your question.

Keep these guidelines in mind next time, and your questions should pass through fine.

SuperMartian89: Okay, I don't mean to pick on you specifically...but what is with this expectation that I or Todd would remember every single post we process from memory?

I've approved or deleted thousands of questions - several of which had your username on them. You'll have to be a LOT more specific if you want to know if/why your post was deleted.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Hello darkness, my old friend...I've come to talk with you again..." - Simon and Garfunkel
posted @ Wed, Dec 19, 2012 10:15:54 pm EST from 134.173.88.59

I can't find my latest question - was it deleted?
SuperMartian89 - [divafairyazura@yahoo.com]
SuperMartian89
posted @ Wed, Dec 19, 2012 6:34:29 pm EST from 24.126.185.69

It's a pretty clear riff on the blaxploitation genre (which wouldn't be the first stab at that genre for DC Nation, given the original premise of the Black Lightning shorts).
Harlan Phoenix
posted @ Wed, Dec 19, 2012 2:32:39 am EST from 76.2.70.200

So, having just read back and seeing what Black Manta's Celebrity Hot Tub is, I did have to laugh.

But I'm wondering (have to phrase this carefully as if i phrase it the wrong way it will sound like i'm making a racial comment when i'm not)....

is Black Manta's goal to destroy all other heroes and villains who have Black in their name? :) (very much in the style of "there can only be one" ?)

or is it just a major coincidence who his first guests were, and he will systematically go through destroying them all?
SomeGeek
http://www.squidoo.com/thegeeklens-cartoons
posted @ Wed, Dec 19, 2012 1:34:57 am EST from 69.255.208.193

Laura> Your question has been answered.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=993

Also, I'm on the side of requesting more from Black Manta's Celebrity Hot Tub.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:24:33 pm EST from 174.101.230.22

http://gargwiki.net/V-Shape_Health_Club
I think it's funny that almost every second click on "random page" in GargWiki leads me to this.
If I was overweight, I would start to see it as a sign now....
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:52:25 pm EST from 80.187.111.148

@Laura 'ad astra' Sack Based on precedence, I would surmise that the queue will re-open the Saturday that "Young Justice: Invasion" returns.
Anthony Tini - [anthonyotini@gmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 18, 2012 4:35:30 pm EST from 159.240.11.122

Greg,

I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate the Spectacular Spider-man show. It reintroduced me to Spider-man in the best of ways. Before watching SpecSpider-man I had only a passing knowledge of the comics and fondly remembered the 90's cartoon from my childhood. But after watching the show I was inspired to go out and read the Marvel Masterwork collections of the early Lee/Ditko work. I was amazed to find how well you had integrated and modernized Spiderman's earliest adventures, picked wisely from his later story arcs, and creatively took influences from the movies and the Ultimate version. While the comics may have been the source material for the show, in my opinion I feel you best captured the spirit of Spider-man and best told his story more than any other media adaptation of the character. As a testament to the awesomeness of the show, I am currently on my fourth viewing of the series (over the course of more than a year so don't think I am crazy). And like all the best shows, I always find more parts of the show to appreciate with each viewing. It is especially fun to try to find shots that are ripped right from the cover images of the comics.

While it is a shame that the show got the short end of the corporate stick, like all prematurely ended things, it is easy to immortalize in its prime.

I really want to thank you and the entire Spectacular team for putting in the research, fore thought, and effort that so many shows lack. I hope you know that even though I watched the show as an adult, after having seen the movies and the 90's show, that Spectacular is MY Spider-man.

P.S. While I am sure it is far too late now, it would have been great to get a complete 2nd season DVD with extras instead of the 4 episode arcs that I have had to collect.
Josh - [jaf5003@gmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 18, 2012 4:21:15 pm EST from 152.216.7.5

Hi everyone.

Does the queue reopen when the last question waiting is answered, or does it stay close to give Greg some peace through the New Year?
Laura 'ad astra' Sack
posted @ Tue, Dec 18, 2012 3:45:00 pm EST from 192.251.134.5

Yes the London clan must definately have a good understanding of math to sustain themselves financially. Plus, with gargoyles going into hiding, they could no longer follow their natural instinct to expand. Therefor the leaders would have to determine how long their resources were sustainable and for how many.
Brack
posted @ Tue, Dec 18, 2012 3:06:28 pm EST from 174.252.145.37

@Greg Weisman - Congrats on getting the queue down to 13 at the time of this comment. I hope you have a great holiday and I look forward to YJ:I's return on 1/5/2013.
Anthony Tini - [anthonyotini@gmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:10:34 am EST from 159.240.11.122

My questions were oberon's relationship was to boudicca and the rest of the avalon clan, hus relationship with hi mother, what he was like before the exile from avalon also my other questions were what it takes to be a sorcery in gargoyles, and where do the hunter's get their tech
Steel_goliath - [Elmi_Hassan@hotmail.com]
EH
posted @ Tue, Dec 18, 2012 2:30:58 am EST from 50.72.216.62

I know this has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of this CR...but for the sake of catharsis, I needed to post this.

http://www.formspring.me/Masterdramon/q/405173096484467968
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Hello darkness, my old friend...I've come to talk with you again..." - Simon and Garfunkel
posted @ Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:38:33 pm EST from 134.173.88.59

Off subject, but can anyone who can currently edit on the GargWiki manage to save any changes? I was trying to add to it earlier today and can only manage to get:

Internal error
Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information.

Thought I just stupidly hit something vital while I was refreshing my preview pages, but after a failed attempt to add a simple "test test test" to my discussion page (and failed attempts to try an edit on another computer later in the day), I figured it best to ask folks here more well versed in wiki code than I am . . .
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Dec 17, 2012 6:45:54 pm EST from 68.231.100.47

Matt & Brack>> But what of the math required for clans like London, who realize that they cannot outgrow Knight's Spur. They have to do the math, to calculate how many resources they have, and how big they can allow their clan to grow.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]
I am Bad. And that's good. I will never be Good. And that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be, than me~~Bad Guy Affirmation
posted @ Mon, Dec 17, 2012 3:33:26 pm EST from 24.217.38.192

Do you really need sophisticated mathmatics to determine when a region can no longer support everyone in your clan? Seems to me that when supplies begin to run short, some gargoyles would naturally react by searching for new hunting grounds. No math required. This is especially relevant in that different environments could support different sizes of clans.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Thats three down and two to go..." -Sevarius, "The Reckoning"
posted @ Mon, Dec 17, 2012 2:41:50 pm EST from 99.92.109.252

I'm sure gargoyles know the basics, division, less than or greater than. But yes I doubt many bothered with trickier math until the mondern times. After all, money seems to be a unneccasary concept to all known clans except for London. It is possible thOugh that as secrecy became more neccasary, the Garg leaders Would learn math to help figure out what a sustainable clan size would be.
Brack
posted @ Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:05:17 pm EST from 174.252.146.201

Oh, pity! I always try to be 9.

About numbers.... well, I don't think Gargoyles used complicated math like humans until they learned it from them. But many animals with a brain are able to calculate, science proved it. Not only primates, dolphins and such, also other animals. And since Gargoyles are more intelligent than most animals, they probably were able to calculate in more complex ways even before they learned to work with real numbers.

But I also think that many Gargoyles don't want to use the concepts of human mathematics and prefer to stay with a more primitive way of calculating, like only working with numbers they can see and need to work with ("one bone and two bones make three bones, I have 2 friends, so each of us gets one bone").

I hope that's what you asked for ^^
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:17:24 am EST from 80.187.111.147

You're #10, Comet.

I had an interesting thought as I was last drifting off to sleep. We know that naming is originally a human thing (presuming the Lost Race didn't bother). We also know that the spoken languages gargoyles use are derived from humans as well. What about mathematics? It's been said that "primitive" cultures basically have three numbers - one, two, and many...what about gargoyles? Did they ever develop any more advanced mathematical concepts on their own?

Now in the "present" of fairly integrated clans like London or even Lex's business enterprises, a sufficient understanding of math in terms of business, finances, or programming is necessary. Still, I'm curious whether or not this is an overall recent development in gargoyle culture. I find it unlikely that many gargoyle would spend a large amount of time working on something like Fermat's Last Theorem...but then again, neither do the majority of humans.

I'm just curious what everyone's thoughts are on the nature of numbers for gargoyles. I'll admit I can't really see many of them fiddling with number theory just for kicks like some humans do...and yes, I have myself. But in terms of strategies of combat, determining population numbers for determining the amount of territory they can or need to protect, deciding when a splinter clan becomes necessary...I just wonder if numerical concepts beyond 1, 2, many, and perhaps too many existed prior to lengthy contact between humans and gargoyles.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:07:05 am EST from 137.183.232.27

Um.... #9?
Comet
I'm shipping off...to find my wooden leg!
posted @ Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:23:14 am EST from 80.187.111.147

I swear that this is a true story that happened only a couple of days ago. Putting this in spoiler tags because it is an adult story.

A friend hosted one of those Christmas parties where everyone brings a gift and the guests all blindly choose a gift from under the tree, with the option to steal an unopened gift from someone else. When all the gifts were claimed, we opened them up.

The gift I picked up completely by chance? [SPOILER] A purple dildo. It left the entire party howling with laughter over the giving of a sex toy for a Christmas gift. Definitely one of the high points of the party. But as I was driving home, I couldn't help but look at the purple penis and think 'Hmm... Goliath is purple all over... I've got a Goliath dildo!' [/SPOILER]
Penny
posted @ Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:04:35 am EST from 96.234.148.48

Steel_goliath: If your questions were indeed deleted, I was probably the person who did so.

However, you're going to have to be more specific (and even then, this would have been a few weeks ago at least, so I can't guarantee I'd remember your questions specifically).

What were your questions about?
Masterdramon - [kmc12009@mymail.pomona.edu]
"Hello darkness, my old friend...I've come to talk with you again..." - Simon and Garfunkel
posted @ Mon, Dec 17, 2012 5:02:17 am EST from 134.173.88.59

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Comments for the week ending December 23, 2012

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