Thinking has never been Demona's strong suit.
Algernon
posted @ Sat, Sep 6, 2014 3:40:41 pm EDT from 109.76.250.85

<<Or didn't she even put any thought in that?>>

What do you think?
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Sat, Sep 6, 2014 1:13:36 pm EDT from 67.189.178.253

Would Demona have preferred the eggs dying instead of being "stolen" and raised by humans?
Or didn't she even put any thought in that?
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
posted @ Sat, Sep 6, 2014 12:41:31 pm EDT from 80.187.113.158

Demona does indeed describe Katharine and the Magus taking the eggs away as an act of robbery in "The Reckoning", when she hears the story from Angela. While much of what Demona was saying in their conversations has to be taken with a large grain of salt (since she already knew that Angela was her daughter before the clan captured her), I think she really did see it that way.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Sat, Sep 6, 2014 6:47:13 am EDT from 108.226.1.5

Of course, any deep down guilt she might've had regarding the eggs was washed away once she found out they had survived. And, naturally, she went right from assuming the worst (that the eggs were destroyed by humans) to assuming the worst (that the eggs were stolen by humans).

Oh, Demona, so unpredictably predictable. Or is it predictably unpredictable... You get the idea. She's a mess.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"
posted @ Fri, Sep 5, 2014 9:33:58 pm EDT from 99.92.109.252

I still suspect that Demona not going after the eggs contributed to her unadmitted guilt over the Wyvern Massacre. Remember, she didn't know that Princess Katharine and the Magus had had a change of heart and were sorry for the way they'd treated the gargoyles. As far as she knew at the time, they were still gargoyle-haters; her natural assumption was that they were plundering the rookery to do something horrible with the eggs. And she just watches them do it. I can imagine that gnawed at her deep down inside, along with her failure to warn the rest of the clan about the Vikings.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Fri, Sep 5, 2014 7:22:14 pm EDT from 108.226.1.5

BRAINIAC> Time is warped and space is bendable!
Algernon
posted @ Fri, Sep 5, 2014 5:24:06 pm EDT from 109.79.39.38

Yup, Paul. That's exactly what Elisa was referring to. A friend of mine's daughter has participated in 4-H before.

Now, while you're here, I need to ask. Was this ASK GREG question yours?

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=20473

I ask, because you've asked this in here in the past and have had it answered. As far as Demona was concerned, those eggs belonged to her and her clan. Of course she would remember laying one, but in 994, the biological connection wouldn't have mattered to her anyway. 1996 Demona is a bit different. Now, as for why she didn't dive down and take them, well... her clan just got massacred, her love place under a spell that froze him in stone at night and deep down she knows this is all her fault, she was overwhelmed with grief and guilt, and just maybe couldn't face them... hell, Goliath had just committed suicide.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Fri, Sep 5, 2014 12:04:29 pm EDT from 67.189.178.253

When Elisa taunted the thugs in "Awakening, Part Three" about their "4-H club meeting," was she referring to this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-H

I never really got that reference.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Sep 5, 2014 6:28:34 am EDT from 71.57.109.177

So apparently there may be evidence that our universe might not be entirely Phoenix-compliant...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/time-travel-simulation-resolves-grandfather-paradox/
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
posted @ Thu, Sep 4, 2014 9:37:17 pm EDT from 71.72.180.87

Todd: I figure he probably will soon enough. It's clear that he's been pretty darn swamped all summer, between work, cons, Shakespeare trips, college trips...

In the meantime, I hope that you enjoyed my reflections on the play. It really was a fantastic group of actors, and words cannot express how proud I am to have been part of it all. :)
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"If someone ever tells me it's a mistake to have hope...well then, I'll just tell them they're wrong. And I'll keep telling them until they believe. No matter how many times it takes." - Madoka Kaname
posted @ Thu, Sep 4, 2014 9:27:00 am EDT from 72.130.106.142

I hope that Greg will put up the script for the "Recruits" radio play up on "Ask Greg", the way he did with the "Religious Studies 101" script.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Thu, Sep 4, 2014 7:35:22 am EDT from 108.226.1.5

MATT> As a fan of Robert E. Howard, you're theory on the origins of "Scottish Stock" amuses my to no end. Because it's pretty much the exact same origin REH gave to his proto-Celtic Cimmerians, a fictional tribe who gave rise to a certain barbarian adventurer you may have heard of. Atlantean refugees settling in what would eventually become Ireland and Scotland.
Algernon
posted @ Wed, Sep 3, 2014 3:24:48 pm EDT from 109.78.9.136

Chip> A lot of awesome thoughts. Very cool.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"
posted @ Wed, Sep 3, 2014 6:25:41 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

Matt> Actually...When you REALLY think about it...The two theories aren't mutually exclusive. Especially when you consider that there's a third gargoyle "ethnic group" in Scotland, namely, the Loch Ness Clan. Loch gargs are the "natives" as it were. Heraldic gargoyles came from mainland Europe, and "Scottish Stock" are the descendants of Gorlois. (As well as Mayan)

As to the rarity of gargoyles in the Roman Empire...I've never really gotten that impression. For one, I figure that at bare minimum there had to be a clan in Rome itself. There's really no reason for the Roman Magus to cast the Humility Spell if there weren't an extant clan there. Romans had a lot of pride. Just based on their culture, if it came from Rome, then it was "good" and if it didn't than it wasn't. A gargoyle brought from foreign lands would be little more than an animal. Fodder for the gladiators, like lions and tigers and bears (oh my) But a gargoyle from Rome...Well, now that's a civilized creature. So it makes sense for the Emperor to ask the Roman Magus to clothe these noble creatures of Roman blood. At least that's the impression I've always gotten.

Beyond that, we know that there was a clan in Persia, and likely in Egypt. Considering how Egyptian sphinx statues and LORE are all about them being protectors, guardians of gateways and temples and such, there's no doubt that in the Ancient Egyptian's mind that gargoyles were sacred creatures, just as the sphinx statues were. "Sphinx" was the Greek name, the Egyptians called them Horakhty, or Horus on the Horizons, because they always faced the east and the rising sun. As such, I have a hard time buying that gargoyles were in any danger of extinction in Egypt prior to the decline of the Egyptian Culture. Sure...Invaders would have smashed some of the local clans, but again...Historically, the statues were considered sacred, so in a world where they actually came to life, priests and priestesses would have gone out of their way to protect gargoyles. Egypt was a part of the Roman empire, and so therefore, based on my above conjecture, a clan or clans there would have thrived until sometime between the 5th and 9th centuries. Unless they all left for New Olympus, as we know many clans did, which brings me to my next point...New Olympus. We know that they closed their doors sometime around 2,000 years ago. As that's when Taurus described the last human visitor to have been. We also know that gargoyles from all over the Mediterranean. Honestly, we know how Greg likes to tie things together...It wouldn't surprise me that the last human Emperor that New Olympus had contact with, was Augustus. Kinda makes a nice neat little package, there. Part of me even wonders if the Humility Spell wasn't a "Parting Gift" for the Former Mediterranean clans/now New Olympian Clans. Obviously, everything I just said is pure conjecture, and open to interpretation. But I personally find the Humility Spell harder to swallow if there wasn't at least a Roman Clan present...And if there were clans dotted all over the Empire--And, gasp, dare I say--Parts of the FUTURE Empire, because Romans are nothing if not ambitious--Then that provides motivation for the Spell to be cast on ALL gargoyles, not just the ones in Rome. All of which is utterly moot, of course. until canon, or even canon-in-training confirms or denies this. I would LOVE to be proven wrong, here...Because that would likely mean that I'm reading a Timedancer comic that proves me wrong. :D
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. ~~C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Sep 3, 2014 2:14:08 am EDT from 97.91.211.217

Rather than the ancestors of the London Clan coming from the mainland (or elsewhere) and the "Scottish stock" being more native, I have a theory that it was the other way around. I think the Scottish gargoyles are actually descendents of gargoyles that fled Atlantis, meaning they have only been in Europe for a few thousand years. I also think that the Mayan Clan (or some of them at least) is descended from Atlantean gargoyles as well. This, to me, explains why those two groups are so strinkingly similar. It could also explain why the Praying Gargoyle (an Atlantean artifact) resembles Scottish/Mayan gargoyles more than English gargoyles.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"
posted @ Wed, Sep 3, 2014 12:20:25 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

Greg's account of the humility spell indicated that gargoyles were extremely rare (at best) in the Roman Empire. The gargoyles Augustus met could have been brought there from remote corners of the then-known world as curiosities to present to the Emperor.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Tue, Sep 2, 2014 6:32:10 pm EDT from 108.226.1.5

Thanks for understanding. Should go out Thursday.
Greg Weisman
posted @ Tue, Sep 2, 2014 6:01:53 pm EDT from 12.131.237.253

Have obtained the No Prize, indeed.

No need to apologize, though. I haven't minded. But yeah, the resend is in order and I look forward to receiving it!
Harlan of the Ghosts
You should've warned us, Raven. Reading isn't just fundamental. It's dangerous.
posted @ Tue, Sep 2, 2014 3:07:33 pm EDT from 76.2.65.189

Okay, Harlan. I'm back from all my travels. Am I right in assuming that you still haven't received your prize? If not, I'll try again this coming Thursday (when I'm back in my Beverly Hills office and can pick up the materials).

I'm sorry this has taken so long.
Greg Weisman
posted @ Tue, Sep 2, 2014 2:53:18 pm EDT from 12.131.237.253

I've always figured that there were quite a few clans, throughout the Roman Empire. I like Al's little theory about the London gargoyles. And it makes certain amounts of sense, jiving with mythology from all over that region. Egyptian griffins and sphinxes, Roman perytons, and other creatures that are either protectors in myth, or otherwise just basically fit the physical description of gargoyles.

And we know that New Olympus was in contact with the human world during the Roman period, as evidenced by their government and architecture.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. ~~C.S. Lewis
posted @ Tue, Sep 2, 2014 2:11:50 pm EDT from 97.91.211.217

"We talked a lot about both properties, and in particular about how much of a shame it was that so few people checked out Mecha-Nation. It really is a ridiculously fun and creative little piece."

Word.
Harlan of the Ghosts
You should've warned us, Raven. Reading isn't just fundamental. It's dangerous.
posted @ Tue, Sep 2, 2014 12:22:42 pm EDT from 76.2.65.189

TODD & Brainiac> I've always assumed there must have been a least a few Roman Clans. How will they were treated by the Empire is probably one of those things that varied a lot depending on local Governors and current Emperors.

In fact, I've always suspected the London Clan were descended from Clans brought over from the continent during the occupation of Britain. Given how much they differ from the presumably more "Celtic" Scottish stock and that Griffins originated in Greco-Roman mythology.
Algernon
posted @ Tue, Sep 2, 2014 11:09:44 am EDT from 78.143.161.152

Todd> Why do you think that? The Empire may have expanded far beyond just the Mediterranean, but gargoyles still had to be known to and likely appeared before Caesar Augustus for the Spell of Humility to have had any reason to be utilized.

Heh. Every time I'm reminded of Caesar Augustus having "strong moral values" which led to the Humility Spell being used, I wind up thinking of Brian Blessed playing that role in I, Claudius and when he got to let loose that voice of his in the scene where Caesar confronts just how promiscuous his daughter Julia has been.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
"It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
posted @ Tue, Sep 2, 2014 9:33:44 am EDT from 137.183.232.27

Goliath said in "M. I. A." that "human problems become gargoyle problems", and seeing how many of the gargoyle massacres and other troubles stemmed from quarrels among humans (such Vikings wanting to sack a wealthy castle or struggles over the succession to the Scottish throne - even the Quarryman business ultimately stems from Jon Canmore/Castaway being unable to admit that he was the one who shot his brother) certainly demonstrates the truth of his words. But today is the anniversary of another historical event which shows how human wars can affect gargoyles in more subtle ways.

On September 2, 31 B.C, Octavius, Julius Caesar's great-nephew and adopted son, defeated his chief rival for control over the Roman Republic (soon to become the Roman Empire), Mark Antony, and his ally, Queen Cleopatra of Egypt. Antony and Cleopatra had no further hope of ruling over Rome; they retreated to Egypt, where both committed suicide the following year. Octavius, under the name of Caesar Augustus, became the first Roman Emperor.

While I doubt there were any gargoyles left in the Mediterranean world by the 1st century B.C. to become involved in the fighting over who would be the master of Rome, the outcome of the battle still affected the species world-wide. I doubt that Mark Antony and Cleopatra would have been as concerned about gargoyles awakening from their stone sleep without clothes as Augustus was.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Tue, Sep 2, 2014 8:03:38 am EDT from 108.226.1.5

*wipes forehead dramatically*

Wow...after nearly a month of writing, my CONvergence 2014 con report is finally up on Ask Greg. And it is a doozy.

At 42 pages in Microsoft Word and over 18,000 words, I think it's clear that I went a little overboard. Still, there weren't exactly a lot of other journals written for the event, so I guess in some sense I felt obligated to make up for that. XD

In any event, I hope that y'all enjoy! To make everything a little more manageable I split the report into four posts, though each post is definitely still pretty lengthy:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=20504 (Day 1 and Day 2)
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=20505 (Day 3)
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=20506 (Day 4)
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=20507 (Day 5 and Day 6)

And while I also link to it in the Day 2 report, here's a separate link to my Flickr account, where I posted all of the cool stuff and autographs I managed to snag throughout the con. Click on the "CONvergence 2014" album:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/94547312@N04/sets/

I really enjoyed putting this together, as it took me back to what has easily been one of the greatest highlights of the year for me.

I hope it has a similar effect to anyone else here who managed to make it to the festivities. And for those who, unfortunately, could not...I hope that my sheer amount of detail can impart a bit of that experience to you.

And now, as promised in the report...time to get to work on my own Amazon/Ask Greg review of "Spirits." Really excited to tackle that one as well, as I truly enjoyed the hell out of the book.

Cheers, all! :)
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"If someone ever tells me it's a mistake to have hope...well then, I'll just tell them they're wrong. And I'll keep telling them until they believe. No matter how many times it takes." - Madoka Kaname
posted @ Tue, Sep 2, 2014 7:04:21 am EDT from 72.130.106.142

And away we go on with the show!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Mark Twain: "Don't argue with stupid people. They'll take you down to their level and beat you with experience."
posted @ Mon, Sep 1, 2014 11:32:50 pm EDT from 108.238.82.21

10
Comet
Double, double, toil and trouble. Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
posted @ Mon, Sep 1, 2014 6:12:45 pm EDT from 80.187.112.212

Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die
Algernon
posted @ Mon, Sep 1, 2014 5:27:12 pm EDT from 109.76.192.211

Eighth in the name of just remembering it's Monday.
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Sep 1, 2014 5:07:17 pm EDT from 50.29.200.80

Seventh!

And happy Labor Day in the States :)
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Sep 1, 2014 2:25:42 pm EDT from 72.208.125.248

That will be six and six, please.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Sep 1, 2014 12:44:20 pm EDT from 71.57.109.177

Fifth.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" - Sevarius, "Louse"
posted @ Mon, Sep 1, 2014 10:09:44 am EDT from 99.92.109.252

Fourth
Supermorff
posted @ Mon, Sep 1, 2014 4:20:23 am EDT from 62.25.109.195

(3rd)Third!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
Mark Twain: "Don't argue with stupid people. They'll take you down to their level and beat you with experience."
posted @ Mon, Sep 1, 2014 3:10:38 am EDT from 108.238.82.21

Second in the name of currently working on Amazon reviews for Rain and Spirits!
Matthew
From far, from eve and morning, And yon twelve-winded sky, The stuff of life to knit me, Blew hither: here am I. -A.E. Housman
posted @ Mon, Sep 1, 2014 12:19:02 am EDT from 71.202.8.177

FIRST in the name of almost being finished with my ridiculously long CONvergence report!

I hope to finally have it up here on Ask Greg sometime this week.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"If someone ever tells me it's a mistake to have hope...well then, I'll just tell them they're wrong. And I'll keep telling them until they believe. No matter how many times it takes." - Madoka Kaname
posted @ Mon, Sep 1, 2014 12:13:02 am EDT from 72.130.106.142