MATT - I'd go into more detail about the Nessie story, but it's the end of the week, the room's due to be cleared in a few hours, and so it seems wiser to wait until next week's comment room.

According to Malory, Gorlois and Igraine did indeed have children - three daughters. Morgan le Fay was the most prominent of these; we know that in the "Gargoyles" Universe, she wasn't really their biological daughter but a changeling - but that still left the real daughter (Nimue) who was swapped for Morgan. The other two were Morgause (who married King Lot of Lothian and Orkney and became the mother of Gawain, Agravain, Gaheris, Gareth, and - by Arthur - Mordred) and Elaine (who married King Nentres of Garlot and never seems to have done anything noteworthy after that). Three biological offspring makes it extremely unlikely that Gorlois and Igraine were a gargoyle-human union, short of magical intervention.

A more likely possibility is that the Gorlois of the Gargoyles Universe had done something noteworthy connected to gargoyles, and took that name as a mark of that feat, whatever it was. This does match the time period, where kings and powerful noblemen often took on new names to commemmorate their deeds, names which replaced their birth-names (take, for example - if a few centuries and a long stretch to the east away - Genghis Khan. His real name was Temujin; "Genghis Khan" was a title meaning "mighty ruler").
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Sun, Jul 31, 2016 7:44:10 pm EDT from 68.231.85.113

Morgause and Morgana. And Elaine although I don't know if Greg ever confirmed her. And of course, Morgause has a lot of significance as the mother of Gawain (among others). Then again, the show has proved time and again that family is more than just being blood relations. And it makes Gawain, Greg's Bastard-who-is-not-a-bastard into a bastard-once-removed or a "grand-bastard" if you will.
Ed
posted @ Sun, Jul 31, 2016 7:40:27 pm EDT from 31.49.132.64

Todd> You've intrigued my curiosity with the Loch Ness Child/S&P thing. But I won't bug you about it.

Ed> That is a very interesting idea. I had not considered that. Hmmm

Didn't Gorlois and Igraine have children?
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Sun, Jul 31, 2016 6:50:07 pm EDT from 99.153.193.91

Ed> It's obviously Demona/Mole

OTP!!!
Algernon
"The mind once enlightened cannot again become dark." ~Thomas Paine
posted @ Sun, Jul 31, 2016 5:25:05 pm EDT from 109.76.215.85

I believe Greg once said that there was one other human/gargoyle romance before Goliath and Elisa. Since the revelations about the meaning of the word Gorlois, I've assumed that other romance was Gorlois and Igraine.
Ed
posted @ Sun, Jul 31, 2016 5:07:22 pm EDT from 31.49.132.64

We do know that Tintagel (one of Gorlois's castles in the Arthurian legend) was the real-life model for Castle Wyvern, though how that would tie in with his name being connected to an old Atlantean word for "gargoyle" I won't try to speculate for now.

I know that there were plans for treatments of this legend or that in "Team Atlantis" that wouldn't have matched that of "Gargoyles"; for example, a take on the Loch Ness Monster as a child transformed into a monster by stumbling upon a piece of Atlantean technology up in Scotland (before it ran into a lot of problems with Standards and Practices - long story; if you haven't heard it, I suggest asking Greg about it at his next convention appearance). So the two worlds wouldn't completely mesh, outside of "The Last".

This wouldn't be the first time that Excalibur has been linked to Atlantis. Some years ago, I read a fantasy series which had refugees from Atlantis' destruction flee to Britain and establish a colony in exile; their king becomes the Fisher King (particularly once the Holy Grail arrives at their settlement) and his daughter the Lady of the Lake - with Excalibur an Atlantean sword brought with them to Britain. Though the story had the glaring problem of Atlantis being destroyed in the middle of the 4th century A.D. - long after Plato wrote about it (though the book managed to get around that problem with the claim that its Atlantis was the survival of an earlier cataclysm, thousands of years before) - not to mention the question of how its destruction went unnoticed during the later days of the Roman Empire (Plato had the sense to set Atlantis' destruction around 9000 B.C., long before recorded history, to solve that problem).
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Sat, Jul 30, 2016 8:04:50 pm EDT from 68.231.85.113

TODD> I remember there was a tie-in website for the movie that implied Excalibur was actually an Atlantean artifact of some kind. Presumably that was something that was intended to be explored on _Team Atlantis_
Algernon
"The mind once enlightened cannot again become dark." ~Thomas Paine
posted @ Sat, Jul 30, 2016 2:55:34 pm EDT from 109.76.67.130

Well, there is the word Gorlois to connect the two legends in the Gargoyles Universe. And I believe Greg has said that his use of the word is no coincidence. I've never been able to figure out what the connection could be though.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Sat, Jul 30, 2016 12:56:40 pm EDT from 99.153.193.91

It's certainly tempting to imagine "Pendragon" touching on Atlantis at some point, since a few modern works of Arthurian fiction have tried tying Atlantis into the Arthurian legend. Though, since that's a strictly modern notion, Greg might not draw on it.

ALGERNON - I'm glad to hear about the quote from Plato.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Fri, Jul 29, 2016 8:16:35 pm EDT from 68.231.85.113

Paul> From Greg's ramble on "Double Jeopardy" ( http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=172 ):

'Cary must have come up with this one, I think. I tend to favor one-worders myself. His original title was "Thailog Rules", which I didn't care for. I liked "Reversals" but he must have convinced me to go for " Double Jeopardy ".

Erin, who can now read, asked what "Jeopardy" meant. I said "Trouble". And she was very amused that the title 'translated' as "Double Trouble". She liked that better, I think. She also enjoys reading the various on-screen scrawls, like "One Year Ago" and "One Year Later". Reading is like a super-power to her now. I hope she doesn't lose that.'

Also, from his outline notes on the episode ( http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=171 ):

'I'm afraid "Thailog Rules" tips our hand too much. What do you think of the title "Reversals"? Or something similar with the word "negative" in it? Or something like "Sins of the Fathers"?'

Besides the play on words regarding the fact that Thailog is Goliath's double, my guess as to why Cary Bates chose the title is that Goliath's life is placed in jeopardy near the end of the episode, as is the life of his double; there's double the amount of jeopardy, because of Goliath's double.

In addition, the subject of accusals and acquittals comes up in the episode, with wrongful accusation being one of the episode's themes. Goliath is wrongly accused by the clan of playing the prank on Broadway, Lexington, and Elisa near the beginning of the episode. He's wrongly accused by the audience of betraying his clan and going to live with Xanatos when the audience sees Thailog (apparently Goliath) frozen in stone in Xanatos' castle near the beginning. And Sevarius is wrongly accused of betraying Xanatos.

By the end of the episode, the clan, as well as the audience, knows about Thailog. If a figure resembling Goliath were ever to commit such actions again, both the audience and the clan would know better than to accuse Goliath again. In effect, double jeopardy would apply.
Arlo
Gargoyles need not apply.
posted @ Fri, Jul 29, 2016 7:58:17 pm EDT from 108.114.7.25

TODD> The Lost Empire does borrow a fair bit from Plato's Atlantis. The movie open with a paraphrased quote from Timaeus/Critias, and the design of the city itself follows the concentric circles layout described by Plato.
Algernon
"The mind once enlightened cannot again become dark." ~Thomas Paine
posted @ Fri, Jul 29, 2016 3:47:09 pm EDT from 109.76.186.188

I wonder which spinoff Greg had considered giving us more of the Atlantis back story in.

The flagship Gargoyles? The concept of the crystals was introduced there, afterall.

New Olympians seems a natural fit. Perhaps New Olympus started as a Atlantean colony before refugees started flooding in later.

And I can't help but think that Bad Guys would explore the Atlantis story as well. Pendragon too. Time Dancer. Probably all the spinoffs would touch on it a bit, though Dark Ages and 2198 perhaps much less so.
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Fri, Jul 29, 2016 9:26:04 am EDT from 99.153.193.91

That's been a popular theory about the origins of the Atlantis legend, though not all scholars are convinced of it.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Fri, Jul 29, 2016 8:39:25 am EDT from 68.231.85.113

The Atlantis story sounds to me like a fanciful interpretation of the eruption of Thera (Santorini) and the subsequent decline of Minoan civilization on Crete and the rest of the islands of the Aegean Sea; Mycenaean civilization from mainland Greece filled the resulting power vacuum.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Jul 29, 2016 3:09:33 am EDT from 73.176.251.27

The Atlantean crystals are (presumably) canon now, since the one at the heart of the Praying Gargoyle showed up in "Clan-Building".

I suspect that the "Gargoyles" take on Atlantis would have to draw on Plato's description of it (the earliest account we have, and probably the origin of the story - though the debate continues on that one). I haven't seen "The Lost Empire", so I don't know how similar its take on Atlantis was to Plato's - though apparently in the movie, Atlantis' original destruction in prehistoric times came during a war with an unidentified enemy. In Plato's account, Atlantis was at war with Athens when it was destroyed, which could give a name to that same enemy.

(The war between Atlantis and Athens has become almost forgotten now, seldom brought up in modern takes on Atlantis, but Plato's account suggests that it was a crucial point of the story. According to him, an Athenian statesman named Solon was visiting Egypt in the 6th century B.C., and told the Egyptian priests some stories about Greece's ancient past. The priests all laughed and told Solon that his people were like children, unaware of their own heritage - including how Athens had saved the world from Atlantis' might - and then told the story of how Atlantis tried to conquer the world, the Athenians alone stood up to and defeated it, and afterwards, Atlantis was destroyed by earthquakes and floods. The original point seems to have been to glorify Athens with a myth about it saving the world from a power-hungry empire - perhaps influenced by Athens' historical defiance of the Persian Empire - but Atlantis itself and its destruction wound up overshadowing Athens' own role. It might have even had that effect on Plato, since he later wrote a more detailed account of the story which breaks off just as Zeus has decided to punish Atlantis for its evil ways, with no mention of the Athenians - as if Plato became so interested in this "lost empire" that he forgot about the original point of his story. That might even be why he never finished the more detailed account - and the sinking of Atlantis couldn't have helped either, since it could suggest that that cataclysm was what really saved the world from being taken over by it, rather than the Athenians' valor.)
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Thu, Jul 28, 2016 8:17:45 pm EDT from 68.231.85.113

It's fake, there is no movie coming out.
Inland
Signature:
posted @ Thu, Jul 28, 2016 7:38:56 pm EDT from 67.165.120.142

Hello I heared there .making a live action film about gargoyles? Is thus true or fake they say it Will come out 2017. Hm also on gargwiki avalon clan in the group picture it looks like wyven abd London had an egg together it appears one blush color gargoye has a rams head mixed with a reptile and peculiar fluffy and long hair and another looks like could be a member if the lock Ness clan looks like built for swimming does anybody else see them?
brandon - [branryan1116 at yahoo dot com]
brandon
posted @ Thu, Jul 28, 2016 7:13:32 pm EDT from 72.168.145.213

Watching SFDebris' review actually makes me wonder how much the Atlantis of the _Gargoyles_ universe resembles the Atlantis of _The Lost Empire_ universe.

We know Kida shows up in _The Last_ which implies the Gargverse Atlanteans (or their descendants) survived into the early 20th century at least.
Algernon
"The mind once enlightened cannot again become dark." ~Thomas Paine
posted @ Thu, Jul 28, 2016 10:41:23 am EDT from 109.77.120.44

Todd> Yeah, I was being oblique about The Last; apologies for any confusion
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Thu, Jul 28, 2016 9:24:03 am EDT from 104.129.196.116

Thanks. I'd gotten the wrong impression from Brainiac's summary that it was a new crossover being planned now.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Thu, Jul 28, 2016 8:29:03 am EDT from 68.231.85.113

TODD: http://gargwiki.net/The_Last_(Team_Atlantis)
Inland
Signature:
posted @ Thu, Jul 28, 2016 12:37:41 am EDT from 67.165.120.142

BRAINIAC - What exactly is the crossover? I couldn't find any indication of that on the site you linked to, just an abbreviated look at the "Atlantis" movie and a satirical documentary (apparently - I no longer have sound on my computer) about Disney above it.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Wed, Jul 27, 2016 8:07:44 pm EDT from 68.231.85.113

Well, well.Look what popped up on CA.

http://channelawesome.com/young-justice-awesome-comics/

Alongside a mention of a certain planned crossover here:

http://channelawesome.com/atlantis-the-lost-empire-sf-debris/
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Wed, Jul 27, 2016 6:16:32 pm EDT from 72.49.128.77

ANON> Right now, I suggest getting on Netflix and binging like your life depended on it.
Algernon
"The mind once enlightened cannot again become dark." ~Thomas Paine
posted @ Wed, Jul 27, 2016 4:30:55 pm EDT from 109.78.206.199

It's possibly possible.
Inland
Signature:
posted @ Wed, Jul 27, 2016 2:42:56 pm EDT from 67.165.120.142

As of today is it still possible to get a third season of young justice
Anonymous
posted @ Tue, Jul 26, 2016 11:14:54 pm EDT from 107.77.83.51

It might have been intended as word-play about Thailog being (initially) Goliath's double.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Tue, Jul 26, 2016 9:26:18 pm EDT from 68.231.85.113

From wikipedia, "Double jeopardy is a procedural defence that forbids a defendant from being tried again on the same (or similar) charges in the same case following a legitimate acquittal or conviction."

I assume that the episode "Double Jeopardy" is a reference to that, but I'm having some difficulty figuring out what the titular double jeopardy was. Was it Xanatos' collusion with Sevarius?
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 26, 2016 9:23:50 pm EDT from 73.176.251.27

TODD> HA!
Algernon
"The mind once enlightened cannot again become dark." ~Thomas Paine
posted @ Tue, Jul 26, 2016 4:55:37 pm EDT from 109.77.157.122

PAUL - Ah, I see. So someone else began the summaries of the first nineteen episodes. Thanks.

I've sometimes imagined a not-too-bright assistant in a bookstore shelving books in the wrong locations thanks to misinterpreting their titles - say, putting "Man and Superman" in the comics section or "The Taming of the Shrew" under pet care. Yesterday, when I was at a Barnes and Noble, I spotted a copy of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" among the travel books. Apparently my creativity demon has manifested itself in real life.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Tue, Jul 26, 2016 8:45:40 am EDT from 68.231.85.113

Not nearly as much. A bit of editing and proofreading, and adding a trope or two... I basically left the existing summaries alone.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 25, 2016 11:33:31 pm EDT from 73.176.251.27

PAUL - You mentioned last week writing the entries for "Eye of the Beholder" to "Shadows of the Past" for the "Gargoyles" Recap page on TV Tropes. Did you also contribute the entries for "Awakening" to "The Silver Falcon"?
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Mon, Jul 25, 2016 8:17:22 pm EDT from 68.231.85.113

Tenth!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Jul 25, 2016 8:13:26 pm EDT from 68.231.102.71

Ninth!
Anonymous
posted @ Mon, Jul 25, 2016 6:09:14 pm EDT from 207.244.66.70

Eighth!

Brainiac: I don't know whether that particular figure of speech has any meaning outside of the US, coming as it does from the US Constitution.

Actually, I'm pretty curious about that now: whether or not people from other countries use that figure of speech in the context of avoiding self-incrimination.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 25, 2016 2:00:03 pm EDT from 73.176.251.27

Seven!
Algernon
"The mind once enlightened cannot again become dark." ~Thomas Paine
posted @ Mon, Jul 25, 2016 11:56:12 am EDT from 109.76.179.179

Sixth!
Matt - [Saint Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Mon, Jul 25, 2016 9:47:41 am EDT from 99.153.193.91

Todd> I wonder if anyone involved with said looting pled the Fifth.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Mon, Jul 25, 2016 9:08:08 am EDT from 104.129.196.119

Fourth.

There was a story in the newspaper yesterday about looted artifacts being returned to Guatemala; I thought of "The Green" as soon as I saw the headline.
Todd Jensen
Hufflepuffs are really good finders
posted @ Mon, Jul 25, 2016 8:45:44 am EDT from 68.231.85.113

Three(3rd)Third!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 25, 2016 1:23:21 am EDT from 108.198.140.248

I hope that a Young Justice announcement happens later this week! #KeepBingingYJ!
Domenic Ricci
posted @ Mon, Jul 25, 2016 12:54:44 am EDT from 50.163.66.187

I guess this makes me First!
Matthew
This Space For Rent
posted @ Mon, Jul 25, 2016 12:49:14 am EDT from 64.85.229.140