According to the Young Justice timeline, J'onn arrived on Earth in 1955 spent several decades in hiding before going public in 2002.

Though given the very Burroughsian flavor of many Martian names, there may have been some surreptitious contact even before then.

And I only just NOW realized J'onn is basically reverse John Carter. :P
Algae
I have unquantifiable corpses on my conscience... Cup-cup, da-da?
posted @ Sun, Jan 2, 2022 1:58:53 pm EST from 217.183.44.235

Not sure about when life on Mars became evident to Earthlings, or whether Earth knew about it all before J'onn revealed himself.

As for the Bioships, considering Mars' biodiversity lives underground due to the hostile surface, I can't imagine many Bioships hang around the surface of the planet unless they're making their way up into space.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Sun, Jan 2, 2022 12:34:12 am EST from 64.85.245.77

I haven't seen Season Four of "Young Justice", and don't recall the details of Mars' depiction in the first two seasons (I haven't seen Season Three either), but evidently in the Earth-16 Universe, those "canals" really were canals. (Assuming - I don't know enough about the Mars of "Young Justice" to be certain - that they exist on that Mars.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Jan 1, 2022 10:22:11 pm EST from 70.176.217.135

With regards to Young Justice

I enjoyed seeing Mars this season. And I've enjoyed how many little in-jokes to early fiction set on Mars, like Barsoom, Malacandra, and Stranger in a Strange Land.

I do find myself wondering at what point astronomers on Earth-16 became aware of life on Mars. Maybe the obvious answer is "when J'onn first arrived on Earth" but if bioships go frolicking across the surface of the planet on occasion, isn't it possible Schiaparelli or someone noticed it?
Friendly CIA Spook
Travis Himebaugh
posted @ Sat, Jan 1, 2022 10:13:38 pm EST from 71.56.248.200

Happy New Year!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Jan 1, 2022 7:35:19 am EST from 70.176.217.135

As I live in Hawaii, I think I might be the last person in this room to ring in 2022?

Happy New Year, all. Wishing everyone the best in the coming months. Stay safe, stay healthy, and stay vigilant.

Fallenlegend: Moderator here. Can you point me to which post you want me to keep and which one you want me to delete?
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"In sickness, and in health." - Eri Claus
posted @ Sat, Jan 1, 2022 5:07:06 am EST from 98.150.138.224

Happy New Year from the West Coast!
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Sat, Jan 1, 2022 3:04:40 am EST from 64.85.245.77

Happy New Year from Arizona. Here's to happy, healthy days ahead :)

[SPOILER] In terms of time traveling in YJ, I've noticed a question or two already in the queue on time travel rules for the series, bringing up Bart from the second season. Thing is, I've yet to see anyone point out that (despite a desire for consistency) the season two featured time travel via science and a machine while magics from Lords of Order and Chaos were featured in the current season. In short, these are not necessarily equivalent circumstances.

It may not be the satisfying detail the inquirers are wanting, but the situation does remind me of Greg Weisman's analogy of a chess/checkerboard for mortal and Third Race magic in Gargoyles, where, despite the similarities, its a whole different game.

https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10829 [/SPOILER]
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Sat, Jan 1, 2022 2:21:11 am EST from 54.162.139.3

Quick question guys. How can I contact the moderators so they delete a question. I submitted one with repeated questions by mistake, and submitted a corrected version. Just hoping they keep the corrected version. Thanks!
Fallenlegend
posted @ Sat, Jan 1, 2022 2:20:10 am EST from 189.130.10.142

Well, it's a good quote!

[SPOILER] Yeah, I went looking up what transplant surgery scars look like for writing purposes a while back, so I was pretty happy to see it - it's not often we get good characters, especially cute little blonde girls, with scars, even clean-looking ones like that.

And yes, making the time travel relatively minimal definitely helps. As does putting it firmly in the wheelhouse of Fate and Klarion - it's good to have that be something only the walking gods can pull off, and only in extreme circumstances.

Also - you know, I do hope before the season's out (or, if not, then next season) we'll have someone bring up medication as a legitimate and useful tool for mental health. I can see how Gar, in this specific case, is using sleep meds in an unhealthy way, but our culture has a huge stigma against medication that makes it very hard for people to get the help they need. The only time I've seen mainstream media show meds as a useful, important tool for mental health might be, I think, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Rhetoric like saying meds are a way of checking out of the world is much more common, and it can be pretty harmful when someone really would benefit from medication, so I hope that whenever Gar actually sits down with Dinah to talk about his options she suggests antidepressants along with the therapy. Because the brain is an organ that has physical functions and needs, and if you don't have homemade serotonin reabsorbtion inhibitors then store-bought is fine.

I also really liked Stranger being the avatar for Chaos and Order together. That was a cool effect, and I wonder how many times he's done that. In general I hope he shows up more - he's just very fun.
[/SPOILER]

As someone who's been listening to Auld Lang Syne on repeat, I'm also wondering which covers they'd like. The Crosby-esque crooning? Mariah Carey? Or maybe they'd just want the old fashioned choral society covers a la https://youtu.be/W_6Vs8pADrQ .
Karrin Blue
.
posted @ Fri, Dec 31, 2021 8:44:59 pm EST from 68.9.91.142

Happy Hogmanay!

Jumping back to my speculations on how the Manhattan gargs would respond to the whole New Year's business, I wonder what their response would also be to the most famous quote associated with it is from Scotland - if after their time. (Actually, a lot of the things we think of when we think of Scotland seem to have originated, or at least became associated with Scotland, after the start of the thousand-year-sleep. Hudson's accent is probably the only "conventional Scottish" element associated with the clan - that and the word "clan" itself.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Dec 31, 2021 7:23:06 pm EST from 70.176.217.135

Karrin> I used that same quote when I covered "Auld Acquaintance."

[SPOILER] It's funny, for some time I thought that was just an animation bit that wasn't cleaned up. And then you pointed out Perdita's heart surgery and I was all, "Right, that would leave a scar."

One little detail I liked was that the time travel shenanigans was kept to a minimum. They didn't interact with much of the world outside of a few close calls and they only definitive information Charlie and the kids had about the future was that Dr. Fate joined the Justice League and that Zatara's daughter would lead a group of magic users.

Incidentally, I was more than a little confused about who that hero was next to Isis. It was only after checking the wiki did I realize that was Ice. But in my defense I only saw her in one other episode and remember her looking a little different. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Fri, Dec 31, 2021 7:10:14 pm EST from 64.85.245.77

And there's a hand my trusty friend!
And give me a hand o' thine!
And we'll take a right good-will draught,
for auld lang syne.

[SPOILER] So, this mini-arc was a bit hit or miss for me - intellectually I like quite a bit of it, but it wasn't digging in for me emotionally. Well, that definitely turned around at the end. This is going to be a bit disjointed and I'll probably add more later, but right off the top, I love the refutation of the idea of the heroic lone patriarch suffering and sacrificing alone. It's a noble idea, but a terrible way to live for the person themself and the people who love them, and inherently dismissive of others when Giovanni's no longer sacrificing on behalf of a child, but a grown woman. So seeing them all share the weight - moving away from the lone great man to a community working together - is really wonderful (and I take it as a sidelong reference to the era of comics where Kent and Inza were jointly Fate, which I'm quite fond of.)

And because this is still a show about our spy kids, I also love Khalid asking Zatanna directly if this had been her plan. Because she's just as much someone who grew up on the Team, who's just as good at subterfuge and sneakery, and I love to see that she's nice and kind and caring but, also, still has that streak of ruthlessness. Once again I'm thinking of that interview where Greg talks about how growing up waist deep in this spy stuff is like a poison that digs into how these kids think, for better and worse.

And speaking of how it can go for worse... ah, Mary. Well that does answer my question about what her power draining was foreshadowing. Looks like we're not quite done having turncoats, and Mary becoming a Fury - well, I expect it'll hurt me quite a lot. I'm sympathetic to her, and I can't be too mad at anyone unlucky enough to get caught by Granny in an emotionally vulnerable time, but that's a situation that's going to get worse before it gets better. If there's one thing Granny is good at, it's pulling someone away from their entire support network and making someone's issues worse.

And speaking of loss of support networks... Oh, Garfield. I love Perdita (and I love that she has a visible heart transplant scar - that's something I always wanted them to include, but never really expected) and I love that she really does want to help Gar, and knows exactly how hard it is to lose family, but she still won't be left hanging or struggling to help someone who doesn't want it. Because you can't make someone want to get help, if they're not there yet - you just burn yourself out while they get more and more sullen, it's miserable all around. Still, I hope that Gar can get himself together soon. And speaking of...

So the thing we all knew was going to happen, happened! I'll be honest when we saw that weird crystal dimension, I sure wasn't expecting CONNER to be the hero Klarion found. And he is not doing well, huh. I'm really curious to see whose plot is next - of course Zatanna won't sit on that information, so who does she tell first and what is the plan going to be?

And, as a sidenote. I really hope that when they get to Conner, and either save him or at least get their last goodbyes, it's not a perfect fix for Gar? I'd love love see him try to play it off as, the problem is solved, he's fine now, everything is good - and for that to not work, because grief leaves scars, and because they can't just leave this problem to fester for the next time, and for him to truly seek out help and healing. I think that'd be a good way to make all the time we spent on grieving Conner not feel wasted, whatever happens in the end.

And, that (first) after credits scene... I really do love that Dinah just rolled with time traveling kids. They're superheroes, this just kind of happens! And I love the idea of the Sentinels standing around trying to figure out which bits of future foreknowledge they could give Dinah that would be believable, but that she wouldn't feel ethically compelled to act on to prevent. And Penny becoming an engineer was cute - I hope we get to see her cameo again someday. [/SPOILER]

Aaaand... I think that's it? For my first thought reactions anyways. And a happy new year to all!
Karrin Blue
.
posted @ Fri, Dec 31, 2021 2:42:13 pm EST from 68.9.91.142

Oops. Forgot two things.

[SPOILER] The show really expects us to remember and care about super tertiary characters. I think Perdita confronting Garfield worked pretty well, largely because of the performances by Hynden Walch and Greg Cipes (both old school Teen Titans alumni) but I can't say I'm all that invested in their relationship? It alwasy felt a bit inauthentic even in season 3. I'm not sure what they're trying to get across here necessarily? And this whole Beast Boy plotline has been *such* a slow burn. It's been like 8 episodes (?) since he started wallowing and it felt like we probably could have maybe gotten here a little sooner?

And of course I forget to mention my favourite part. Granny!! I LOVED Granny Goodness last year, I think she's probably my favourite villain in the whole series; and I am so happy she's making a comeback here. [/SPOILER]
Alex (Aldrius)
posted @ Fri, Dec 31, 2021 5:48:13 am EST from 65.95.87.63

[SPOILER] Î'm not sure if we needed everything that got us to this point, with the Chaos Lords and the Lords of Order and Vandal Savage, and Zatara's backstory. It was a lot of fat for what was effectively a very simple efficient story: Zatanna getting her dad back. I like this setup, I like that Dr. Fate and Zatanna have learned to trust each other. It feels very earned. It tugged at my heart a little bit. It was a good episode and I think of the three major arcs so far it was the most satisfying conclusion, but the arc overall felt very unfocused to me.

I dunno that a lot of stuff here necessarily worked for me, and in hindsight I think there were better ways to help us get to know the Dr. Fate candidates, other than the sort of haphazard/rushed dream sequences. I also dunno if the final battle with the Child really proved that THESE were the best choices for Dr. Fate which dramatically is kind of the purpose of the conflict. Khalid didn't even really do much. In general I don't think Child worked for me either. She was fairly obnoxious. And in fact I'm not even sure Klarion or Vandal Savage were really necessary here. The threat could literally be anything that put Dr. Fate on the backfoot.

Also did not really expect them to bring back Conner in this way? Don't mind it, but don't really know where it's going either. Which is fine. Khalid's need to become a Dr. paid off in the way I expected it to. It's kind of a silly thing, but it makes me smile.

Also I guess Dinah is actually a certified therapist? I always thought she was just filling that role because there was no one who really could do it otherwise. But I guess she's a certified therapist or something. I guess it'd have been a little unethical for her to counsel the young heroes otherwise. I like this version of Canary for a lot of reasons, but given who Canary is I've always felt like she was a bit prim. I feel like Dinah should be a little rougher around the edges. Minor quibble, but it's always bugged me a little bit. [/SPOILER]
Alex (Aldrius)
posted @ Fri, Dec 31, 2021 5:42:04 am EST from 65.95.87.63

What's worse, the enemies we make or the friends we lose? Perhaps the answer lies somewhere in-between.

So here are my initial thoughts on "Kaerb Ym Traeh!" [SPOILER] I've been hoping for an intervention on Gar's behalf for some time now and while I thought it would be his team to do that, I wasn't opposed to the idea of Perdita pulling him away from the edge. Buuuut, looks like that's not the case. In fact way things are going I'd say he's going to keep spiraling until he crashes and possibly loses everything. I really hope Perdita at least passes on what she's learned to M'gann when she gets to Earth, hopefully before Beast Boy OD's or worse.

Well, I was pleasantly surprised that the show chose not to sacrifice Zatara, because damn. That man needed a win as much as anybody. But this also brings up another point, Zatanna grooming her proteges to cycle through the Doctor Fate persona. While it may have been a spur of the moment decision, Khalid was definitely right to call her out on keeping them in the dark, playing off of Traci's altruism and condemning Mary after doing nothing to stop her. This kind of shadiness that Nightwing and Batman engaged in last season seems to be rubbing off.

And Mary, well on the one hand her willingness to draw power and life from others is in no way a good thing, her Power of Zeus was the most effective thing at halting Flaw until Traci noticed it's um, flaw. And it's not like any of the other's had an idea in mind for stopping the familiar; so if you're going to criticize someone for a decision made in the heat of the moment the very least you can do is do it in that same moment. Not after the fact. Because now something Dark is approaching, and it looks like good ol' Granny just got a new foothold into Earth.

And finally Vandal; I wasn't exactly pleased to learn that his heroics in Babylon were the result of his own agreement with Klarion. So I am glad that he's instrumental in undoing Child's advantage, and doing it in his own warped way of heroics, in this case rules-lawyering. By reminding the Lords of Order and Chaos that victory for one also spells their own defeat. And the true goal and balance has been the existence of that conflict. Each action by one causes the pursuit of the other. 50,000 years of life has undoubtedly made him wise to the inner workings of the powers-that-be.

Oh, and apparently the "Phantoms" is referring to the Phantom Zone. Because that's my guess on where Conner is. [/SPOILER]

And with that we've reached the mid-season break. Now back to endless speculation.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Fri, Dec 31, 2021 4:27:03 am EST from 64.85.245.77

Bronx probably wouldn't have been too keen on the fireworks.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Dec 30, 2021 7:28:59 am EST from 70.176.217.135

I was pretty curious how they would react to the fireworks considering they're from pre-gunpowder Europe. Then I remembered that they got thrown into the far end of technology pretty quickly. You know, cars, television, lasers, floppy disks etc.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Wed, Dec 29, 2021 11:08:07 pm EST from 73.170.229.149

Todd - While the bewilderment and enthusiasm you mentioned would certainly be in play, I wonder which aspects on human time-keeping would at least be familiar to the clan, or, at the least, to Goliath and Hudson (since they had more interaction with humanity in their 10th century days).

One of the books I read this year was Calendar: Humanity’s Epic Struggle to Determine a True and Accurate Year by David Ewing Duncan. I won't give away all the cool bits for those interested, but what I really enjoyed was the breakdown of how the many ways humanity marks the passage of time has, more often than not, been a hodge-podge collection of different cultures throughout history. It's pretty cool that as convoluted as our current and (nearly) universal system can sometimes appear, no one civilization is the sole progenitor on every unit that we routinely use to track time's passing.

From the more well-known names of the months from the Romans, to the more obscure amount of hours in a day from the Babylonians, there were plenty of cool details that brought to light just how long it took to develop a system of measuring time that would be familiar to modern times. I notice more and more how often anachronisms creep into the various storytellings I enjoy, simply because those fractions and concepts of time hadn't been calculated, formalized, or adopted yet. d:
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Wed, Dec 29, 2021 2:53:26 am EST from 3.145.131.166

With the New Year just a few days away, I've found myself wondering what the Manhattan clan's response would be to the "New Year's" excitement.

I suspect bewilderment would be a major part of it. The gargoyles would most likely find the humans making such a fuss about a particular moment when one year changes to another (complete with assigning each year a number) to seem as alien as the human concept of naming things - the same insistence on defining things and giving them limits. Hudson would particularly make such a remark, I suspect - though he might also enjoy watching the ball drop in Time Square on television. The trio might take a tone of "Any excuse for a party", on the other hand (though they'd have to make it a private party of their own, for obvious reasons).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Dec 28, 2021 7:24:42 pm EST from 70.176.217.135

What Matthew said.

Plus Klarion was only stuck in the Tower for sixteen days. Granted, that may have seemed like an eternity at the time to the attention deficient Witch Boy. But in all practical terms, sixteen days barely qualifies as an inconvenience to beings that measure their lifespans in the billions years.

It'd be like Batman building a super-high tech escape-proof cell for the Joker, except the door automatically unlocks after sixteen minutes.
Algae
I have unquantifiable corpses on my conscience... Cup-cup, da-da?
posted @ Tue, Dec 28, 2021 4:04:21 pm EST from 217.183.44.235

When Klarion first tried to portal out of the Tower of Fate it took him to the Bell Tower where Kent Nelson and Wally exited back in "Denial." The exit was right there but Klarion was so frantic that he didn't realize the way out was right behind him.

Him being "Chaos Personified" is a double-edged sword. His power may make him impossible to hold, but his scattered brain means he bounces around until someone (usually Teekl) points the obvious out to him and he remembers that he already knew that.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Tue, Dec 28, 2021 5:47:37 am EST from 73.170.229.149

I've been puzzling this one out for awhile. I checked past questions to see if it occurred to anyone else, and it doesn't appear to have.

Lords of Chaos like Klarion can apparently never be contained. Put him in the big ankh-pillories and it falls apart as soon as he snaps his fingers. Even Dr. Fate thinks there's no point in keeping him prisoner.

But what constitutes "containment?" He clearly had a lot of trouble getting out of the Tower of Fate. Why is escaping from the Tower so much harder for him than any other kind of containment? And couldn't Nabu just chuck him somewhere where he'd similarly get lost and confused?
Friendly CIA Spook
posted @ Mon, Dec 27, 2021 8:58:27 pm EST from 71.56.248.200

Phoenix Wright, Apollo Justice, and Athena Cykes!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"In sickness, and in health." - Eri Claus
posted @ Mon, Dec 27, 2021 3:49:34 pm EST from 172.92.18.138

No, the First is this Saturday. You're a few days early.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Mon, Dec 27, 2021 2:33:31 pm EST from 73.170.229.149

First.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Dec 27, 2021 7:30:44 am EST from 70.176.217.135