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Comments for the week ending May 22, 2022

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Most "children's" cartoons these days are intentionally designed so that adults will also get something out of them and deal with mature themes like romance and the possibility of violent death, including Amphibia, the reboot of DuckTales, Elena of Avalor and The Owl House. Beyond that, I suggest we just ignore this person in the future.
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And like I stressed before, just because a show is made for one's gender/age group, it doesn't mean that quality is assured.

More and more when people say they will watch something for another demographic if it is good, I doubt that they have zero tolerance for crap that is age/gender "appropriate".

Antiyonder

Compton?
Friendly CIA Spook
Secretes secrets

MATTHEW> Now to be fair, I'm sure the anon was just in a hurry 'cuz they had to get back to important serious grown-up business of insulting random strangers on the internet.
Algae
'Nuff said

That was an amazing self own also why are the trolls here always anonymous put in some effort and at least get an Avatar I mean anon trolls are so 2009...

But on a more relevant I think I have a good theory on who the actual children of Titania and Oberon are.
[SPOILER] I believe the male child is Finvarra and the female child is Gloriana they were known to be rulers in Fae folklore and since they are characters in Shakespeare and Spencer I think it is a good bet that their Gargoyle counterparts would be subservient to Oberon and Titania as heirs in waiting. Here are the sources.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finvarra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy_Queen [/SPOILER]

Lastly and sorry in advance if this is a spoiler but it is more of a hypothetical if Demona got Bronx's DNA during the Reckoning what do you think Clone Bronx's name would be along with Malibu, Burbank, Brentwood, and Hollywood California motif?

Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols

I assume you're referring to Lewis Carroll in your attempts at insults.

Congratulations, your attempt at dismissing the argument just made you look like an even bigger fool.

Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

LMFAO! You retards are actually quoting a pedophile to support your argument? Yeah, "nuff said".
Anonymous

Finally the Target sirens did not steer me astray -- I snagged a NECA Demona yesterday! :)

Owl House: [SPOILER] I do wonder what King picking up on the Collector's, er, 'frequency' means for the next few episodes. Can't be good news, I suspect.

Oh, and let's not forget mentioning the other big highlight of the episode -- Crikey! Amity and Luz are both delights :) [/SPOILER]

Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

[SPOILER] How Belos reconciles using magic: just the standard hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance you get in real life I'd assume. [/SPOILER]
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Well said.
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“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

― C.S. Lewis

Algae
'Nuff said

Why are grown ass men (or so I assume) watching "The Owl House"?? Are y'all autistic or something?
Anonymous

Thanks for your comments on the movie, Ed. It was a pleasant surprise to see you posting here again.

A couple of thoughts on this morning's episode of "The Owl House".

[SPOILER] 1. Amity's mother now ranks as one of the creepiest characters in the series, alongside the Emperor and the Collector. She apparently now knows the truth about the Day of Unity, and is still helping Emperor Belos, with a tone of "What he does with my products isn't my concern" and apparently believing that he'll keep his word about her and her family being rulers afterwards (which strikes me as an obvious lie - no way is that guy going to spare any magical beings in the Magical Isles, and even if he did spare the Blights, who'd they be ruling over?). It feels almost like a human knowingly and willingly assisting one of Demona's wipe-out-humanity schemes. (It's pleasant to see the rest of the family, including her husband, standing up to her about it.)

2. The Collector fears that the Emperor is going to double-cross him and not free him, and that seems likely indeed. For me, the most intriguing feature about Emperor Belos/Philip is that he wants to wipe out the entire magical population of the Boiling Isles out of twisted moral principles (likely for a guy from 17th century colonial New England), but: a) took up magic himself to become a witch-king and b) is working in partnership with a magical being like the Collector. I was curious about how he reconciles that, and the episode offers a possible answer for the Collector part of it; Belos/Philip doesn't actually intend to release the Collector, just use him for his big witch-hunting endeavor. How he deals with his having taken up magic to defeat it, we still don't know - maybe we'll get something about that in the next episode, with Luz likely to have another confrontation with him after the big switch.... [/SPOILER]

Todd Jensen

Just saw the "Rescue Rangers" movie too. I have to say, I liked it. Of course, it's formulaic and it does that thing of mocking the formula while also following it. That said, these kinds of cartoons were always a pastiche of different genres and this was obviously done with love and care and of course the nostalgia bombs didn't hurt as it was precision-engineered to hit me right in the childhood (Pogs!). It's not amazing or anything but there were a few laughs, a good cast, good use of the original music, a lot of nice details (love "Lego Miserable") and anything that features [SPOILER] a sight of Goliath, albeit only as a still image as part of an ensemble in the credits [/SPOILER] can't be all bad with me.

But I'm also fascinated by what it represents. I never could have imagined in a million years that even if they did reboot Rescue Rangers that it would be so rich with deep cut references to the original.

Until the internet, we were in the era where media really didn't refer back. Everything was the perpetual present. "Gargoyles" felt rebellious, even shocking, because it included "previously" flashbacks and ongoing stories. This just wasn't how television was supposed to operate.

Then a couple of decades ago, we entered reboot culture. If a "Gargoyles" movie ever happened, it would be a ground-up reboot. New continuity only. New and edgy, trad is bad.

A few years ago, we entered revival territory which was exciting - granted, a lot of these were really bad like "X-Files" (from what I gather) and "Veronica Mars". But even "Doctor Who", which was way ahead of the curve on this kind of storytelling, tiptoed in, filling in the old backstory gradually and as-new. Now if a "Gargoyles" revival happened, and it could, it would have to address TGC or find a way to ignore it -- e.g. 2198.

But in the last few years, I think we're really entering this era of intertextuality. Now these obscure franchises can be enjoyed and appreciated in their own right and interrogated with an understanding that there are complexities and differences and contradictions for all sorts of commercial reasons over the years. Obviously Disney has led with this with the Spider-Man crossover and the multi-verse stuff but with this film they took this mentality right into the heart of the Disney afternoon which is fantastic.

While "Rescue Rangers" was a great show (or so I thought aged 5 - I've no idea if it holds up and I'm not sure I want to test the theory), I really don't think the nostalgia wave would motivate a huge number of old fans to go see a regular sequel movie. But I imagine quite a lot of children will check out the back-catalogue off the back of this movie. That means this sort of thing isn't just a move to pull on nostalgia but a way to leverage a back-catalogue. I think it also is a recognition that this stuff will be around a long time and anything added in to deepen the rabbit hole only increases engagement -- so there's no longer any particular time limit. Sure, the nostalgia wave will move past the late-80s and 90s but for many viewers these things will always be there at the click of a button so the properties aren't as reliant on pure nostalgia.

Which does fill me with more optimism than ever that perhaps one day Disney will see a rationale for doing more with "Gargoyles" that is faithful to and respectful of the original to the point where it could easily just say "and for this TGC isn't canon" and it would be fine. If anything, an apocryphal season just adds an extra bit of colour. We're in a world now where "Ask Greg" isn't a niche internet reaction completely separate from the original being broadcast to millions on television but is simply another internet site that is only a few clicks away from Disney+'s content itself at all times. People can smell authenticity and dig it out -- it matters and so it will inform executive decisions in a way that just wasn't a consideration until very recently.

Of course, the fundamental economics are still that "Gargoyles" represents chump change to a studio that has so many of the biggest properties in the world. And Disney's interests aren't in pleasing niche fan groups but making mass-market entertainment. Even if they one day wake up to the fact that "Gargoyles" has potential, my fear is that it won't be until after Greg retires and, frankly, my interest in a non-Greg take is... well, not zero, because there are some very good writers out there and I've read some cracking fanfic from this very fandom... but pretty close to it.

Still, even if it doesn't bring the castle above the clouds, maybe it'll be another awesome franchise that will get its reawakening. New "Darkwing Duck". Heck, I've always thought the potential to do a "Talespin" that leans about 10% more into the sitcom romance and 30% more into the world-building and "Porco Rosso" atmosphere would be a sight to behold.

Ed

[SPOILER] Apparently, a comics version of Fury, Erik Storn, could shapeshift to a super-powered female form (or possibly had powers both ways, and shifted back and forth randomly? I haven't read comics involved, I'm just checking the the wiki summaries, and being honest it seems like it involves a lot of mid-aughts attitudes about gender that haven't haven't aged well?) But either way, it'd make sense if the crew looked at that and decided to use that as the basis for a trans hero. [/SPOILER]
Karrin Blue

[SPOILER] Neat tidbit I spotted on another site: Quei Tann, voice actress for Rosa AKA Fury, is trans. Not sure if we should infer anything in-universe about Fury herself from that but it's cool regardless. [/SPOILER]
Algae
'Nuff said

Well now I'm wondering if Whedon had some kind of grudge against florists, if he used the same joke twice.
Karrin Blue

Come to think of it, Black Canary being both a florist and a therapist is ironic in light of both Buffy ("Doppelgangland") and Angel ("Spin the Bottle") making jokes that wanting to be a florist is a sign of mental instability.
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I haven't seen it yet, but I didn't like the sound of that premise either.
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Truthfully, I'm a little baffled by the positive feedback the movies getting. A lot of people are saying it's funny and I just wasn't getting any of the humor.

Of course, everyone's entitled to their own opinion and mine only means as much as the next person's.

Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

At least it led to that re-airing of the original episodes on Disney XD; I caught a few of them for nostalgia's sake, including the Sewernose episode I mentioned earlier this week. (It had a couple of Disney self-references that probably aren't as meta as what you were talking about, Matthew; at the start, when the Rescue Rangers think they're going to see a movie, Dale says that he hopes the cartoon preceding it will contain "that stupid duck" - all the more apt given that a few Donald Duck cartoons did pit him against Chip and Dale. And Sewernose was modeled on those crocodiles in the "Dance of Hours" segment of "Fantasia".)
Todd Jensen

Just caught the new Chip 'N Dale movie, haven't written out a proper review yet but I will say this. It's kind of depressing that modern movies like this or Space Jam 2 are awash in corporate cynicism and the need to be meta in its storytelling.

I mean, whatever happened to letting your characters be characters?

Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

[SPOILER] If Brion had his own independent source of money in S3, then Gregor probably does too; I also had a theory that he'd be an ops manager for the League/Team/etc. If he has an actual job, he might be consulting on or organizing some kind of response to the refugees coming out of Markovia. [/SPOILER]
Karrin Blue

[SPOILER] "Welcome to Burger King, where if the food does not kill you, the irony will." [/SPOILER]
Friendly CIA Spook
Secretes secrets

[SPOILER] I'm pretty sure that the Phantom Girl, Lord-Zod on Oa, and Phantom Zone prisoner storylines will converge, since they're all related.

I think Black Canary is a therapist because she's admittedly Greg's favorite character and it gives her a significant role in which to interact with the protagonists on a semi-regular basis. I like that, as opposed to many other superhero and monster hunter shows, Young Justice doesn't ignore the question of therapy for people who get into these extraordinary situations, quite the opposite.

I wonder what poor deposed Gregor is doing? Presumably he's in America with Tara, since he's her legal guardian. It would be funny if the former king is in an office job now, like investment consultant.
[/SPOILER]

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Not to mention that he's not exactly white himself and neither are his kids.
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To respond to Charles's question, I would imagine that Vandal would be opposed to Nazi race theory because he could see it was based on junk science and didn't actually make the non-exterminated groups stronger.
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I bet Lizard Johnny would get along with Marvel's Negasonic Teenage Warhead.
Friendly CIA Spook
Secretes secrets

[SPOILER] Good to see Garfield on the proper road to recovery this time and with a corgi companion to boot. I like to think he and Cyborg became pals during their time on the Outsiders, and maybe as a nod to their friendship from the Teen Titans as well. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

[SPOILER] Don't have a ton of thoughts here. I think the junkyard scenes were a bit too predictable and didn't really have enough dramatic tension for when our heroes are basically going on a potentially dangerous mission against a big bad in a place they know nothing about but I think it was also a pretty good palette cleanser after last week for them, so... eh. I think it was fine, but I do wish they had, had a story with a little more meat on it's bones here.

The Markovia stuff was *great*. I've always really liked Violet, so it was cool to see them come back center-stage here. We've also been getting little snacks about what was happening in Markovia (and with Violet and Brion) through out the season so this was cool too.

Having said that, there are only *3* episodes left, and we still have to see what happens with Lor-zod and Oa. It also seems like *none* of these plot threads are going to really consolidate themselves, so it just seems like we'll somehow have to deal with Phantom Girl, the Bioship group, the Phantom Zone confrontation, AND Markovia in 3 episodes. Which... seems CRAZY to me. I also feel like we *do* need to check in with at least Vandal Savage and the Light again at some point. They're involved in Markovia but have almost nothing to do with the other plot lines.

The therapy scene was scripted awkwardly, but I LOVE the sentiment. It's nice to see people just... doing a therapy group and talking about what's going on. It's nice to see Beast Boy doing better. Good little Terra cameo. I really liked the Harper/Violet stuff in this episode. I'm still... very confused about the decision to make Black Canary a therapist, even four seasons and ten years later, but I'm pretty used to it now anyway.

So overall, I think the Markovia stuff is coming in a bit late, and is maybe one plot too many but I'll see how it's executed. Looking forward to the battle next week. That's about it. [/SPOILER]

Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!

Ok!

[SPOILER] So, I don't think it's any secret I've been looking for more stuff about the Markovs, so this was a very interesting episode! I appreciate how Brion spends the entire episode nearly catching on, even with interference from Baazovi - he really does earnestly want to do right, he's just got a massive case of sunk cost fallacy and, I think, wanting to prove to himself and everyone else that this was right before he can ask for help. Meanwhile, Baazovi definitely seems to be getting confident he can do whatever he wants, and I'm hoping that hubris starts biting him soon. Everything he does is low, but whammying Violet and Brion to start fighting strikes me as especially cruel, when they'd been having such a good talk before (and the genuine happiness Brion had on seeing them was sweet.) Hopefully Fury will help? Actually, I thought that when she showed up, it was going to be Everyman disguised as her, on Baazovi's orders, to... well, to flirt with or seduce Brion to stop him thinking about Halo or the political situation, or something. But it seems to be the real her, since she's actually telling him what's going on.

Speaking of Vi - man, that's a nice new outfit, both the civilian and hero ones. I love colored palms on superhero suits, too, that's one of my favorite details. And they might be hooking up with Harper too - though I do feel bad that the closure Violet thinks they got was mind controlled, and hopefully we'll get a scene of them really properly clearing the air sometime (unless the plan is for La'gann to not be the only polyamorous character, which... well, I'd be willing to be sold on it.)

The therapy check in was nice, although it struck me as instructive to the audience in the same way Clark's talk with Johnny was. It's still a good thing to tell people about, but I feel like Gar talking about how good therapy animals are could've been worked in more smoothly. That's a bit nitpicky though, I think. And Beast Boy and Cyborg being pals was fun.

(sidenote - I still want to get Terra's POV on this situation. Also I wonder if she specifically learned 'crushing on you' for this eventuality, because the rest of her speech is still fairly formal, and because it would be quite funny if she's learning American slang only to be able to accurately teen-speak specific situations.)

And to the rest - oh, Conner. How long has he been in this little cult now? And poor Tynya - thankfully she can fly, but her hand being like that is no joke. I wonder if she'll manage to find B'aarz and get to Earth with him? Or signal the League or something? If she can luck into calling when Superman is running comms, then he'd be able to put some pieces together.

And finally, the Team in the junkyard was just fun. Nice to see them all working together. Though the thing with M'gann - I get the logic, but somehow I feel like this is going to lead to them being all dumped out of the Phantom Zone together and M'gann restoring Connor's mind in a parallel to Bereft, and that before that happens it's going to be a bad time for everyone. (And the bit about keeping it a secret, and Artemis agreeing, and Zatanna nodding - did that strike anyone as echoing Zatanna and M'gann's psychic closure sandbox gambit from the end of S3? If Wally really is in the Zone too, and they find him somehow, I wonder if Zatanna and Rocket will use that same logic to explain to Artemis why they tricked her.)

And... well, next episode things will hit the fan, I guess! [/SPOILER]

Karrin Blue

I swear that pun wasn't on purpose.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

[SPOILER] Heh, "Trajectory".

The sooner Bad Samaritan gets exposed, the better. [/SPOILER]

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Hey, this episode takes place on my birthday. Awesome.
Anyway, some quick thoughts on episode 23, "Ego and Superego."

[SPOILER] Lot happening in this episode, especially in Markovia. Not yet sure how it's going to go down but if it continues in the trajectory I imagine, I kind of wish we sprinkled some of the drama with Brion and the Infinitors throughout the season rather than saving it solely for the last arc. I like that despite everything, Brion is committed to being a proper hero, a fair king and a leader for the Metas to look up to. And all the more tragic that Baasovi is constantly sliding up to him like a leech and turning everyone around him into their worst selves. Ever since it was brought up I had wondered whether a relationship between Halo and Harper was going to happen, kind of a shame that it look to be that way because Baasovi stepped in and ruined whatever care Brion and Violet still had for one another.

Of course things are going to get complicated soon. Fury as it turns out has more of a conscious than the rest of her teammates and she specifically name-dropped Baasovi in her list of grievances. I wonder if this is going to Brion trying to distance himself away from that shoulder devil or if it will lead to confrontation. If the latter, it might bring up my prediction on the Light weighing in on how useful Brion may be and whether he's worth keeping around.

Poor Phantom Girl, tried so hard, probably ruined her hand (I hope Martian medicine can treat that) and Conner is just too far gone to be convinced. And wouldn't you know it? There had to be one more secret to make things complicated. I know the Team was trying to spare M'gann's feelings if this doesn't work but of all the times to leave someone who can repair a fractured mind. At least this fallout will be by genuine ignorance rather than a conscious choice like the previous season.

And nice to see they're finally going to rebuild the Hall of Justice. Jeez, the spokes of government turn slow. [/SPOILER]

Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

[SPOILER] Rewatching the last episode, I can't believe I forgot to mention how nice it was to see Tye, Asami and Mr. Longshadow. We haven't seen them since season 2 and now I'm both curious about how Tye and Asami are doing and whether Mr. Longshadow actually did know something about the "spiritual journey" that Tye and Jaime went through. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

Thanks, Some Geek. (I'd read about that bit while finding out more about the movie. I also found out that Disney XD is airing a "Rescue Rangers" marathon on Thursday and Friday, presumably to help promote the movie.)

I remember one episode of Rescue Rangers" which must have been aimed as much at the parents as the children; the villain in it was either an alligator or a crocodile (I can't remember which) named Sewernose de Bergerac, who matched his name by dressing up as a seventeenth century French gentleman with a fencing sword. While the Cyrano parody itself was the sort of thing the grown-ups were more likely to get, one detail about him entered that category even more; he had a couple of hand-puppets named Euripides and Voltaire (even dressed in the styles of ancient Greece and eighteenth century France, respectively); Euripides would praise him, while Voltaire was far more critical.

Todd Jensen

Todd J - response to your last week comment.... Rescue rangers two different animation types. The conceptual reason is in-story. Not something I'd consider a spoiler but I"ll tag it non the less...
[SPOILER] As one of the actors said in an interview promoting the movie, after leaving the show Chip goes to be insurance salesman Dale undergoes "CGI Surgery" (a stand in for plastic surgery) to keep working the convention circuit and keep living off the height of his career and trying to hold on to that. [/SPOILER] So it's explained in story...

Some Geek

We now know the name of Captain Chavez's daughter from "Future Tense".
Todd Jensen

Unfortunately I missed it as well, hope those who joined in enjoyed it.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

First! Did anyone check in on the watch party on Twitter last Thursday? I missed it, but backbreaking the tweets was fun. Apparently Virgil lives in Noble's building! I wonder if he ever helps babysit?

Also, a few more teaser pages for Targets were released. [SPOILER] We got a quick glimpse of Mist's hero costume, and Brion on a zoom call with the League/Outsiders/etc. I'm hopeful that means we might get some interactions between the Markov siblings, their bond is still really interesting to me. [/SPOILER]

Karrin Blue