A thought on the name issue.

I think if I can call the same person both Jimmy McGill and Saul Goodman depending on which show I am watching ("Breaking Bad" and "Better Call Saul") and which period of his life it is, I can call the same person Mentor and Hudson, Angel and Demona, etc. We've been doing it for Othello, Desdemona, Iago, Coldstone, Coldfire, and Coldsteel for almost thirty years... granted those three are the names of the bodies, but I tend to think they've more or less been accepted as "their" names.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Voices from the Eyrie - Gargoyles Podcast]
https://spidey-dude.com/category/podcasts/voices-podcast/
posted @ Sun, May 21, 2023 9:26:01 pm EDT from 67.189.167.107

I wonder when they first named Goliath "Goliath". Probably some time after 971, since he'd be just another of the younger clan warriors then and wouldn't stand out as much. Perhaps after Hudson stepped down and passed the title on to Goliath. (We know that it wasn't that tactful a name in view of the original Goliath being a villain - not to mention part of an invading army, which wouldn't match the gargoyles' more defensive tone. Prince Malcolm engaging in another piece of unwitting tactlessness, thinking only of the Biblical Goliath's formidableness?)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, May 21, 2023 8:45:55 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

I don't know if Mentor is a name necessarily. More like calling him "dad" is how it strikes me (Goliath calls him "my mentor" I believe when he does do that in Vows). I always thought it was weird that they'd describe the trio as brothers, but not Hudson as "father". Even though because he fathered an egg in both Goliath and the Trio's generations (and Bronx's even) he'd be a father to all of them. Maybe it's more personal to call someone father. Or maybe it's weird that Angela calls Goliath father (even with the rational that he's the only rookery father present -- though now Coldstone and Coldfire are around too). I get in part that it's to keep things from being too confusing to casual viewers necessarily, but it's one of the neatest sort of "Gargoyle" things that makes them really distinct.

I do kinda love how because not every gargoyle gets a name (though... every gargoyle pretty much has a name now) the names that are chosen by humans are so telling.

Goliath as a mighty warrior who is fearsome and terrifying, Demona as a demonic warrior (meant as a compliment, but shows how subtly Demona isn't really accepted by her human allies in full), but then naming all the Avalon Gargoyles after Angels and Shakespearean heroes. It's really neat.
Alex (Aldrius)
posted @ Sun, May 21, 2023 1:53:34 pm EDT from 70.48.44.66

Alex> I hear you. I agree it's awkward and clunky. But the names Hudson and Demona will not be uttered by anyone in Dark Ages (presumably), but Mentor, at least, will be used. Given enough issues when no one is saying Hudson and everyone is saying Mentor, it might actually feel weird to keep calling him Hudson.

On a side note, I love how this all will give greater context to the scene where Elisa names Hudson. We'll see how Mentor is named before I delve too deep into this, but it makes me wonder if Hudson thought that the name Hudson would fade from use as Mentor did. I also love that both Coldstone and Goliath were using the Mentor name in the original episodes and now we'll get to expand on the origin of that name.

Todd> I had the same thought on the moon, but wasn't going to comment on it more until I saw the final art. With coloring, who knows what it will look like. Also, we know that at least some edits will be made to that image (Chomp's tail is way too long and will be shortened).

A week and a half until Chapter 6 and a month and a half until Dark Ages! Excited!
Matt
"Well, I'm back..." -Samwise Gamgee, Lord of the Rings
posted @ Sun, May 21, 2023 12:53:19 pm EDT from 47.233.90.133

One detail in the "Dark Age" teaser pictures that's got my attention: the way the moon looks in them. It's dark, as if in the middle of a lunar eclipse. Of course, the final version might have it looking more "regular", but at present, it has almost an "alien sky" feel (in a good way).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, May 21, 2023 8:38:32 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

I've always found it a tad unnecessary and odd to use new aliases that won't be used for the characters whom already have names in canon and who are familiar to us. Like even just for marketing reasons it seems simpler to just still call them Demona, Goliath, etc.

But I guess Greg wants to create a sort of divide between who these characters are and who they will become.

I am so monstrously excited for this spin-off, though. I love backstory. I love Hudson. The idea of seeing bio relatives of Demona's seems interesting. One thing I've always thought there just wasn't really *time* for in Gargoyles proper was just really developing the interpersonal relationships of a lot of these characters. It feels like that's something Dark Ages can have a much more solid focus on. Which is why I'm a *little* wary of *another* Scottish civil war featuring the Gargoyles. It's fitting, but I'm hoping we'll get a bit more colour, maybe some more flavours here.
Alex (Aldrius)
posted @ Sun, May 21, 2023 3:15:40 am EDT from 70.48.44.66

One thing that struck me in the podcast is that I'm pretty sure Drew Moss said thhat Lefty (Mentor's second) will bear a resembance to Angel. Presumably a relative. That's pretty cool.

I'm really looking forward to Dark Ages as well. I'm not even sure what excites me more, the continuation of the main series or Dark Ages. Both are so awesome! It is going to be a great summer!
Matt
"Well, I'm back..." -Samwise Gamgee, Lord of the Rings
posted @ Sat, May 20, 2023 7:00:37 pm EDT from 47.233.90.133

CRAIG - Thanks for the alert; I just watched that podcast. (The first "Voices from the Eyrie" episode I've actually watched, rather than just listening to.) I'm definitely looking forward to "Dark Ages" when it comes out.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, May 19, 2023 10:25:20 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Todd> I imagine it would, the film was accepted into the National Film Registry.
Not bad for a Mel Brooks comedy.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Fri, May 19, 2023 8:14:28 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

New Voices from the Eyrie podcast discussing Dark Ages with Greg and Drew Moss (Drew is literally drawing the first issue during the podcast). Some cool insight into Drew's process as well as Greg's scripting process, plus we learn that Hudson/Mentor's second in command is "named" Lefty (impliedly a pun on his being the right-hand man). Greg also all but confirms that the text backup material will be "Once Upon a Time There Were Three Brothers," but more fleshed out than the version we've seen. And the pitch artwork by Dave Schwartz that was done for the Dark Ages TV show pitch to CBS will also be included.

The video version of the podcast is free this time since there is some screen-sharing of artwork (all stuff we've seen before on Twitter, some to Greg's obvious annoyance).
Craig
posted @ Fri, May 19, 2023 7:46:35 pm EDT from 63.143.195.71

MATTHEW - I don't have an account, so I'll check to see if the local library has the movie on DVD.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, May 19, 2023 7:43:40 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Todd> If you have an HBO Max account you can watch Young Frankenstein there.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Fri, May 19, 2023 4:02:04 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

They made a lot of fun jokes about the original stories in "Sherlock". One of my favorites was John Watson's website being stuck at 1895 views.

Odd little thought about the new "Dark Ages" picture of the gargoyles all standing on the cliff, facing the viewer, with their wings caped around them. While that look was a regular feature of them in the original series, something about it reminds me of Emperor Belos' cape (which would be ironic, given that he'd be just as keen on slaughtering gargoyles as Castaway, if he ever came across any).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 9:56:26 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Craig> Interesting, I wonder if that's why they made a joke of it in Sherlock.
B
B
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 9:28:00 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

I'll definitely have to watch that movie.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 9:10:35 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

I cannot mention enough how good Kenneth Mars is as Inspector Kemp.
In fact, I can't mention enough how good all the cast is in Young Frankenstein.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 8:51:08 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Todd > Inspector Kemp is a character played by the late great Kenneth Mars in Mel Brooks's Young Frankenstein.

Sherlock's signature deerstalker-and-Inverness look was indeed conceived by the original illustrator of the stories for The Strand magazine, Sidney Paget. However, this look only appeared in a handful of stories (perhaps only two?), and those were stories where Holmes was traveling to rural areas, so the outfit choice was contextual, not a fashion statement. I believe it was the 1899 play starring William Gillette, and cowritten by Gillette and Conan Doyle, that popularized the deerstalker look as Holmes's 24/7 look.
Craig
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 8:40:40 pm EDT from 209.140.39.207

Who is Inspector Kemp?

Brooklyn's outfit on the #6 Conner cover *does* match Dupin's period (1840's or thereabouts), which supports the notion that that's whom he's dressed as. The challenge is that Dupin doesn't have an obvious "signature look', unlike Holmes' deerstalker and Inverness cape (which were actually the invention of one of the illustrators rather than of Doyle himself) or Poirot's mustache.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 8:20:08 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Interesting the cover with Hyppolyta in Hudson's clothes...
Matt
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 5:48:13 pm EDT from 12.14.29.34

Covers for Gargoyles Dark Ages issue 2.

https://www.comicsbeat.com/dynamite-covers-gargoyles-dark-ages-2/
Vicky82UK - [vickysunseeker at aol dot com]
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 5:10:43 pm EDT from 86.144.246.214

Speaking of covers, for those who haven't seen it, we now have a look at the Kambadais variant for Gargoyles #6 with a timedancing Brooklyn: https://www.previewsworld.com/Catalog/MAR230499
Craig
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 4:28:36 pm EDT from 209.140.34.234

Brooklyn could've gone for a Inspector Kemp look. That way he could keep the eyepatch and the monocle.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 4:18:25 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Oh...of course Brooklyn has a monocle, because it's taking the place of his eyepatch. Duh. So I believe he is Dupin, with a monocle added out of necessity to cover his eye.
Craig
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 12:18:29 pm EDT from 63.143.196.245

Forgot to sign...that last post was me.
Craig
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 12:08:52 pm EDT from 63.143.196.245

Todd > I saw that Conner cover for #6 as well (and love it...if you look closely, Bronx is chasing a rat with a pretzel). If the trio were completing the holy trinity of fictional Victorian detectives, C. Auguste Dupin would probably make the most sense (Holmes even references and criticizes Poe's Dupin stories in his first appearance). However, I'm not aware of Dupin ever being depicted with a monocle.

Matt > I made the connection to the cover of Marvel's Gargoyles #11 as well. Lexington's pose in particular is identical. I'm not sure if Conner drew that cover (it's unsigned and she shared art duties for that issue with Grant Miehm, who drew the Bronx tale).

More cover-related stuff:

I note that Drew Moss, our Dark Ages artist, drew a variant cover for Gargoyles #1 as well (which seems VERY expensive to come by).

Whereas the first four issues of Dynamite's Gargoyles have had variant covers corresponding to the first four issues of the old Marvel series, #5 inexplicably seems to have jumped ahead to the cover for Marvel #8...and the cover gallery incorrectly attributes this cover to Amanda Conner when it was actually drawn by Grant Miehm.
Anonymous
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 12:07:42 pm EDT from 63.143.196.245

Craig> That's a fascinating thought. I hadn't even considered that. Perhaps that could even result in Dracon being released from prison.

Todd> I think that cover also pays homage to one of the old Marvel Gargoyles comic covers with Bronx being barely restrained by the trio.
Matt
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 10:13:21 am EDT from 12.14.29.34

On the subject of covers - I've now seen the preview of the Conner cover for #6, which shows the trio in costume at a Halloween party - along with Bronx on a leash, who seems to be eagerly headed somewhere (probably the refreshment table).

Broadway is dressed up as Sherlock Holmes (or at least, the popular image of Holmes), of course. At first I thought that Lexington was dressed up as Dr. Watson, but a closer look at his mustache suggested Hercule Poirot instead. Brooklyn's wearing a Victorian-style top-hat, coat, and monocle; I initially thought he might be going at Professor Moriarty, but he might be intended as a different figure from "classic mystery fiction", especially if Lexington's got up as Poirot rather than Watson.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, May 18, 2023 9:56:13 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

Todd > [SPOILER] Oh my gosh. She'll just be getting endless questions about the loin cloth. Poor Elisa.
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Wed, May 17, 2023 8:17:42 pm EDT from 209.140.41.150

CRAIG - [SPOILER] For that matter, Elisa had better hope her feelings about Goliath don't become obvious enough that - assuming the proceedings at the hearing become public knowledge - she has to face questions about him from the kind of people who, if they lived in Metropolis, would be asking Lois Lane if Superman's pajamas also have a big red S on them. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, May 17, 2023 7:40:31 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Sorry for the double post. I was just looking at my copy of the Kambadais cover variant for #5 and wanted to express my appreciation for the really interesting way he uses the cityscape and forced perspective on both this cover and the cover for #3. Both covers show a character in the air, with the city behind them at unexpected angles (Xanatos flying upside down on the #3 cover, and Goliath plummeting directly downward on #5). I don't think we've ever quite seen these types of compositions before in Gargoyles despite many many flying sequences. So kudos to George for keeping things fresh and interesting while still feeling faithful to the show!
Craig
posted @ Wed, May 17, 2023 7:38:09 pm EDT from 209.140.41.150

Todd > Spoilers for the Gargoyles #9 solicitation blurb. [SPOILER] I guess it was inevitable with the trajectory of the story that Elisa's relationship with the clan would become public knowledge, but it's surprising and exciting to think that it may be happening so soon. That will be a major shift in the dynamics of the story. In reality, I have to imagine that this would be a career-ending revelation for Elisa, given that she has essentially been engaging in vigilantism, or at least knowingly benefiting from it on many of her cases. And any criminal convictions that she was involved in would be appealed to determine whether the defendants' due process rights had been violated. Obviously, I don't expect the comics to be hyper-realistic with all this, and Elisa will certainly continue being a police detective. But it will be interesting to see what the blowback will be.
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Wed, May 17, 2023 3:03:18 pm EDT from 63.143.200.43

Brainiac> Thanks for the link! I like how the Discord is divided by "Clan".

Were the episodes of Dark Angel you saw from Season 1 or Season 2? Season 2 was when Jensen Ackles was a regular.
B
B
posted @ Tue, May 16, 2023 10:37:50 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

Well, Discord has finally updated the screenshare functionality into the Stage Channel of the server I made, The Gargoyle Nation. We still need to test the audio functionality, but we may be trying out some community rewatches soon. Feel free to join the Discord by clicking my name; the invite I've attached is a permanent one.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Tue, May 16, 2023 9:36:31 pm EDT from 184.54.103.20

Relating to the spoiler stuff regarding Brooklyn, but not about it.

[SPOILER] I remember old Ask Greg responses specifying that part of Team Atlantis not being full canon was it's own planned (unmentioned) take on the Terracotta Warriors. I heard incidentally that the Atlantis property might be seen full canon.

Is that true or possibly someone not understanding that aspects of it or canon? [/SPOILER]
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, May 16, 2023 3:39:08 pm EDT from 71.84.183.196

We've also got the synopsis for Gargoyles #9, which indicates that [SPOILER] Elisa will be going public - sort of - with her knowing Goliath (we don't know, of course, how much of Goliath's trial/hearing will make it past the doors of the courtroom) [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, May 16, 2023 8:43:49 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

The synopsis for Dark Ages #2 is out and very exciting, with more specific details than the one for #1 had. [SPOILER] I particularly like how it refers to Hudson and Demona as Mentor and Angel in addition to mentioning Hyppolyta. I always thought "Mentor" was Hudson's original name when I was a kid and Coldstone called him that. And we'll get to see the Archmage in action on their side at this point, interesting. [/SPOILER]
B
B
posted @ Tue, May 16, 2023 12:34:43 am EDT from 74.74.246.146

[SPOILER] I hadn't thought about Qin Shi Huangdi's terracotta army in a "Gargoyles" context before I saw that page, but they strike me as fitting in very well; statues of warriors (if human rather than "fantastic beings") with an atmosphere of "long ago" - and it's thought that their purpose was to serve as symbolic protectors to the Emperor in his tomb, which would match "Gargoyles" all the more.

I also saw another "teaser page" for "Gargoyles" #6 on the @GargoylesNews page; the design of those robots confronting Broadway, Lexington, and - apparently - Izaak strengthens the likelihood that Renard will have a major role in this story. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, May 15, 2023 7:58:27 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

[SPOILER] This offers an interesting geographical dilemma. Modern day Shangdu still offers a fair amount of visitors so it's not exactly the best place to hide away from the world in order to preserve the garg beasts. Also, it's not very mountainous which is how the wiki describes where the Xanadu Clan lives. My theory is that the clan might have originally been from Xanadu until the degrading relationship between humans and gargoyles forced them to migrate to the any number of mountains in the north. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, May 15, 2023 5:21:25 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

MATT - Good point.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, May 15, 2023 8:55:24 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

Second!

Todd> I had the same thought. With that said, [SPOILER] China is a big country with a lot of history. We don't know where Xanadu is or when Brooklyn encountered the Xanadu Clan. [/SPOILER]
Matt
posted @ Mon, May 15, 2023 8:42:57 am EDT from 12.14.29.34

First.

A thought I had about the "teaser page" from #6 about Brooklyn's Timedancing. [SPOILER] One of the scenes in it was Brooklyn encountering what looked like a few of the terracotta warriors from Qin Shi Huangdi's tomb. I wondered yesterday, recalling that scene, whether it might be from the same adventure that had Brooklyn meet Fu-Dog and bring him along on his travels. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, May 15, 2023 8:30:10 am EDT from 174.72.60.154