Speaking of comics, I got a newsletter from Fantagraphics Comics today, and one of the upcoming releases mentioned in it was a volume which had Scrooge McDuck, Donald Duck, and the rest of the "Disney Duck" cast appearing in adaptations of "Les Miserables" (with Scrooge in the Jean Valjean role - only here it's "Jean McJean") and "War and Peace".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2023 8:33:42 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

And though no Gargoyles yet, I did get some more comics yesterday:
https://www.deviantart.com/antiyonder/art/Collection-Addition-Picture-16-980213398

https://www.deviantart.com/antiyonder/art/Collection-Addition-Picture-17-980213669
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Sep 1, 2023 5:58:13 pm EDT from 107.77.205.53

I'd also still like to see what Brooklyn might say about that mask of him being the pre-Timedancer version. Probably some wisecrack about just how out of date it is (especially since his return from Timedancing was months ago).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2023 8:53:42 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

A trope perhaps, but I like the idea Todd. Particularly because the trio will be trying to work things out while fighting the "trio". Really working out those feelings in a healthy way.
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Narrator, "The Reach"
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2023 8:42:52 am EDT from 204.184.178.1

Todd> Season 2 had one like that as well. Though it was over relationship dramas.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, Aug 31, 2023 12:25:38 am EDT from 47.25.116.8

By the way, my mention last night of the strain between the trio (more specifically, between Brooklyn on one side and Broadway and Lexington on the other) gave me a little creativity demon. When the trio go on their rescue mission in #10 (presumably for Rosaria and Peter), they're still arguing over or discussing the problems between them - even while fighting the kidnappers wearing the trio masks, and at one point say to the kidnappers when they launch another attack on them, "Do you mind? We're trying to have a serious conversation here!" while fending them off.

Mind you, I've read that Season Three of "Young Justice" had a similar scene, so Greg Weisman might decide not to go down this road, so as not to repeat himself.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2023 9:45:42 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

test
Anonymous
posted @ Wed, Aug 30, 2023 6:07:43 am EDT from 88.87.179.191

CRAIG - Great news. Thanks for telling us.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2023 9:37:18 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

I believe Greg has said that there will be issues past #12.
Craig
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2023 9:36:46 pm EDT from 166.205.147.104

Sorry for the double post, but to clarify the part about "remaining three issues" - those are the three issues (#10-#12) following #9, where we'll be seeing Goliath's hearing and - according to the solicitation - Elisa testifying on his behalf.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2023 8:37:01 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

I remember our discussions of how much of that might come about once Elisa testifies on Goliath's behalf. The full consequences would probably take a while, since I doubt there'd be enough room in the remaining three issues of "Here in Manhattan" to address them alongside continuing the already-established threads (Dino Dracon and the organized crime factions, Broadway and Angela's commitment ceremony, the trio's continuing friction - which will most likely be a major element of #10, judging from the solicitations), and I imagine that Greg will want #12 to conclude on a hopeful note like "Hunter's Moon" (where, despite all the troubles the gargoyles ran into, and were still facing at the end, the focus was on their being back in the castle and Goliath and Elisa's kiss), especially in case Dynamite and Disney decided not to continue the comic past it. (I hope they'll continue it, of course, but just in case....) We might get a hint of trouble to come, as potential set-up for a later arc, but I doubt there'll be more than that.

A small piece of semi-melancholy news. I've mentioned here a few years ago finding a book on gargoyles (I think it was around the time of the 25th anniversary of "Gargoyles", in late 2019) at the local library, which focused on the architectural variety, but in the chapter of gargoyles in fiction, included a few paragraphs on the series. I discovered today that the library no longer has that book; it apparently got weeded recently. I'm sorry to see it go, but am hoping that whoever wound up with it (libraries generally donate or sell the books they're weeding, rather than throwing them away) might have found out about the series as a result - might even come here (since Station 8 was mentioned in the "Further Reading" section at the end). Of course, that person might already have been familiar with "Gargoyles" and bought the book because of that. And the library still has the DVDs of both seasons of "Gargoyles" in its collection (the ones on the shelves at my local branch are the Season One and Season Two Part Two DVDs - other branches have the Season Two Part One DVDs), as well as a few books on other gargoyles, mostly fiction. (There's a particularly charming one I discovered not too long ago called "Anthony and the Gargoyles", a sort of wordless graphic novel abut a boy who discovers a gargoyle egg and makes friends with the gargoyle who hatches from it.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2023 8:20:44 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

This brings to mind my all-time favorite show, Twin Peaks (which of course prominently featured Michael Horse in a law enforcement role, as well as several other Gargoyles actors such as David Warner and Jim Belushi). There's a point where the main character, FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper, is held accountable for illegally conducting an operation across the Canadian border, out of his jurisdiction, because he was helping out his friends in Twin Peaks. Ultimately, not much comes of this, because the focus shifts to him being framed for more serious crimes that he didn't commit. But there is a moment where Cooper has to admit that he did the wrong thing in order to accomplish a noble end, and says he will accept the consequences. It would be cool to see that sort of nuance show up in Elisa's arc at some point.
Craig
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2023 5:09:08 pm EDT from 24.46.160.51

Of course a huge part of Gargoyles is both the clan and Elisa working together so that they may adapt their "Protect the castle" viewpoint to the modern world plus the budding relationship between Elisa and Goliath. So if the cops or at least Elisa's precinct weren't depicted as honest and truly devoted to protecting and serving the whole thing would fall apart.

If the series was made now I'm certain that the complications and problems with modern policing would show up but I think efforts would be made to show the hard work that goes into being an honest cop. Also the central group of cops in Elisa's circle (Morgan, Chavez and Bluestone) would probably still be depicted as on the right side of the law. I also think there would probably be at least one episode dedicated to the problems of police brutality and maybe have a dirty cop show up as a secondary antagonist.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2023 4:57:01 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Good point. Rudy “tough on crime” Giuliani is still the mayor of NYC in the Gargoyles timeline. Different era indeed.
Craig
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2023 2:24:07 pm EDT from 166.205.147.104

It's also a different era. Mainstream media (given how big Disney is, I think it's fair to label Gargoyles as such) treated cops very differently in 1994 than in 2023. The country had much higher crime rates in the 80's and early 90's that had only just begun to decline, and Reagan-era "law and order" policies still dominated the conversation on crime. Gargoyles had a very positive view of the NYPD that probably wouldn't fly if it came out today. Nowadays even Paw Patrol gets criticized for being "copaganda."
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2023 1:32:44 pm EDT from 64.106.38.254

Even in her earliest appearance chronologically, in "Awakening," Elisa conducts an illegal search of Xanatos's home after it's clear that Owen has terminated consent for her to be there. I know that at the end of the day, it's a kids' show and we shouldn't think too deeply about this stuff. Elisa is generally a great cop, but she does tend to color outside the lines when it suits her purposes.
Craig
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2023 10:42:21 am EDT from 24.46.160.48

JURGAN> "Also "The Green," where Elisa refuses to participate in vigilante action against the loggers. She was on the opposite side in that case, kind of interesting how she chooses to draw the line."

Yes... the name Xanatos.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Voices from the Eyrie - Gargoyles Podcast]
posted @ Tue, Aug 29, 2023 7:52:01 am EDT from 67.189.167.107

JURGAN - Ah, thanks. I'd forgotten about that one. (It may be time to rewatch the full two seasons on DVD again, for a refresher.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2023 10:33:49 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

"(It was barely explored in the first two seasons, for that matter, apart from Peter Maza's concern about the gargoyles going to the Xanatos Construction site in "Cloud Fathers".)"

Also "The Green," where Elisa refuses to participate in vigilante action against the loggers. She was on the opposite side in that case, kind of interesting how she chooses to draw the line.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2023 10:24:08 pm EDT from 69.247.67.113

BTW, it was pointed out on reddit that the Clayton Crain cover for Dark Ages #4 has been modified pretty substantially from the original solicitation. Both versions seen here: https://imgur.com/a/56pwGXy

I personally prefer the original version as it's more expressive.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2023 10:16:50 pm EDT from 24.46.160.95

A thought from a couple of weeks ago, when we were discussing the (thankfully rejected) original ending for "Angels in the Night", where the gargoyles and Elisa would flee Manhattan, and raised the question of what would lead to Elisa abandoning her city and the NYPD.

A few posters brought up the "working with vigilantes" issue. While I can see this cropping up at some point in the series proper (most likely as one of the consequences of Goliath's hearing), I doubt it would have been raised in "The Goliath Chronicles", where the issue was never explored. (It was barely explored in the first two seasons, for that matter, apart from Peter Maza's concern about the gargoyles going to the Xanatos Construction site in "Cloud Fathers".)

A more likely explanation (assuming that the new production team had seriously explored Elisa's motivations in that initial plan and weren't approaching it from the "it's a rush job; we don't have time for that sort of thing" angle) is that the bulk of the human population of Manhattan was continuing to hate the gargoyles despite all the evidence about their true nature. Castaway was out of prison without explanation, despite his actions in "For It May Come True..." and practically everyone was accepting his story about the gargoyles trying to blow up his headquarters without considering the possibility that a man with his track record might not be telling the truth. They'd even blocked her from meeting with Angela and Bronx in their cells for being a "gargoyle sympathizer", and she was clearly angry about that when she mentioned it. With all of that, it's possible that Elisa was feeling less than fond of her fellow humans, who not only refused to learn the truth about the gargoyles, but were even starting to ostracize her. In fact (though I doubt that the new production team had this in mind), it's almost a parallel to the Captain of the Guard, who similarly saw his fellow humans scorning the gargoyles despite all the times that the gargoyles had come to their aid, and was himself getting poorly treated because of his loyalty towards them.

I think that they could have had this be the "last straw" for Elisa, that she wanted nothing further to do with a set of gullible ingrates who refused to learn. She obviously wouldn't go as far as the Captain had, of betraying the city, but turning in her resignation and leaving, casting in her lot with her friends the gargoyles....

Though, as I said above, I suspect it was more a case of "Let's wrap the series up by having the cast leave Manhattan, as a way of making it clear to the audience that it's over" and that they didn't put that much deep thought into it.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2023 8:55:51 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

On the GargWiki, I usually refer to the dates from PreviewsWorld and Amazon (and cite with PreviewsWorld). Those two have been usually the most accurate, but I know we often follow-up to see if the date has changed . . . the most frequent (as of late) being the trade of the first half of Here in Manhattan.
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2023 6:57:51 pm EDT from 72.216.220.229

Jurgan > Ah, interesting. Perhaps it’s been delayed? I’m looking at Amazon (where I get my digital copies), Things from Another World (where I get my physical copies), and gargwiki, and all have the September date.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2023 6:46:42 pm EDT from 107.127.7.21

Craig: Through the link I posted, I see 24 different links to Gargoyles #9. Some say September 13, some say September 6, some (like this one: https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/comic/1702757/gargoyles-9?variant=9443657) say August 30. Where do other people get the release dates?
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2023 6:37:43 pm EDT from 64.106.38.254

Inspired by Todd to catch up on my pre-ordering, I note that the Kenya Danino cover for Dark Ages #5 gives us our best look so far at [SPOILER] the dragon [/SPOILER].
Craig
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2023 5:59:36 pm EDT from 24.46.161.146

Jurgan > I'm not sure what you mean. Gargoyles #9 seems to be scheduled for September 13, and Dark Ages for September 20. No new comics this week.

Todd > Cool, good to see Xanatos on there. He's possibly my second favorite character (after Goliath), and you made me realize he's been under-represented on the comics covers. Although we do have a very dashing Lucio Parrillo portrayal of him for the upcoming #9.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2023 5:38:01 pm EDT from 24.46.161.146

Todd> That's funny. 15+ years ago I mused that perhaps one day Peter Choy and Rosaria Sanchez would show up. Crazy. I also thought it was funny that we were trying to make sense of Greg's timeline dates before the Stone of Destiny arc.
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Narrator, "The Reach"
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2023 3:14:55 pm EDT from 204.184.178.1

I was looking through the Station 8 Comment Room Archive and found a discussion during the week of November 5, 2007, on a certain couple of "off-stage characters", with many of the posters speculating that if we got more "Gargoyles" stories, they might graduate to on-stage characters, a la the Emir - and what they'd do in their on-stage roles. It makes good "amusing in hindsight" reading now, thanks to the Dynamite comic.

JURGAN - I got a look at the Fleecs cover for #12; the Fleecs covers are the ones I like to search out first. I thought it did a good job of completing the skyline, including getting in not only the whole clan as of "Hunter's Moon", but even finding a good way of working Xanatos in (though no sign of Demona, which would have made it complete). And now Elisa's teamed up with a police dog - what will Cagney think of that?
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2023 9:33:33 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

First! New comics week!

Though this site (https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/search/161662?keyword=gargoyles) lists dates for this week, next week, and the week after- I'm assuming one of the alternate covers is delayed for some reason?
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 28, 2023 12:07:42 am EDT from 69.247.67.113