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Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending December 7, 2025

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concrete slabs townsville - [a at gmail dot com]
412641

MATT - Thanks for reposting your thoughts on the first issue of "Gargoyles: Here in Manhattan". One detail; we did see the gargoyles crime-fighting after the Avalon World Tour in the animated series ("Turf" and the scene at the start of "Hunter's Moon" where they foil the subway robbery). You're right, though, that we didn't see any of that in "Clan-Building".
Todd Jensen

You inspired me to look up my initial thoughts on "A Little Crazy":

SOOO good to have new material again. Halfway through reading, it really hit me. I love Gargoyles and I'm glad to continue to hear the story.

- We'd seen the opening pages before, but not with dialogue. Really interesting to see its all from Elisa's POV. I like that a lot. The theme is Manhattan and she's the longest resident of the main cast, so I like that she's our guide. I wonder if that's just this episode or if that will continue throughout. I kind of hope for the latter.

- Really nice to see the Clan back in their role as crime fighters in Manhattan. Not something we got to see in Clan Building or even since before the Avalon World Tour. Makes me curious when this is all happening. Late winter/early spring of 1997, I presume.

- I fully expect the car Lexington drives to be turned into a gargoyle-themed hot rod and sold as a toy by next Christmas. : )

- And we get Elisa's rendition of our opening theme. It'd be funny to hear Salli Richardson's version of it. Ha!

- Goliath and Elisa are in full on boyfriend/girlfriend mode. No hesitation, no reservation, no beating around the bush. It's a new era and it's great to see it develop! And Brook's line about an "impressionable minor" is both hilarious and poignant. So great to have a youngster in the Clan. Clan Building really lived up to the name. The Clan is healing and rebuilding from the Wyvern Massacre. Generations of gargoyles, males and females, old and young (and an egg!). Notably absent in this episode were the Clan's beasts, however.

- All the "snogging". Love is in the air. Goliath/Elisa, Brooklyn/Katana, Broadway/Angela, Coldstone/Coldfire. None for Lex though. I smiled at Gnash's reply to Lex about snogging being "British for kissing" and Lex's response "Good to know." Yeah, I'll bet there is a certain Brit you might want to be snogging, Lex. In fact, Lex appears to be irritated that everyone else is getting some love. And it looks like Elisa notices it too. I'm hopeful this can be developed more in the issues to come.

- Looks like a rookery has already been established for the Manhattan Clan! Wish we could see it. Perhaps soon.

- Crazy to get appearances of Dracon and Brod and a follow up on "Turf". I was not expecting that. And nice to have a more "grown up" feel to the whole issue with mentions of drug labs and whatnot. Coldstone and Coldfire versus organized crime is new and interesting. And Coldstone's continued reluctance to protect the humans is interesting. Cool that he's not an enemy and yet still not completely on board with the Clan's purpose just as we first saw back in 994. I'd like to see more of his viewpoints on this and his take on Elisa in particular.

- Maggie is in labor! Should be interesting to see what her child looks like. Are the mutates their own species now? Did the mutagenic formula affect sperm and egg cells? It'd be funny if Thailog had all this interest in the kid and it ends up being a normal human baby. Not sure what his interest in adopting the child is. That is something he's never expressed an interest in before. Maybe since Xanatos and Goliath had offspring, his programming require he feel the need to as well.

Pretty amusing thoughts given all that followed.

Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996

I think Jurgan might be on to something with that Turing Test.
And I could certainly go for a cookie as well.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

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Matt: To celebrate the anniversary, I was thinking about reposting my initial thoughts on "A Little Crazy" in the Ask Greg queue, when lo and behold, I don't seem to have written any major reaction to it! Looking back, I don't seem to have picked up the habit until Gargoyles #5. So I whipped up some not-so-initial reactions to post.

BananaClownMan: I'm curious to hear about how you came to know about the Gargoyles comic continuing.

Welcome back, MrWho!

Morrand: I'm happy you finally read Demona #4!

Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

Amazing to think that "A Little Crazy" released three years ago today (Noticed that thanks to the Main Page on GargWiki!). 30 stories later (and more to come!) and we are still going strong! Never The End, folks!
Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996

Welcome BananaClownMan! Check the email that you listed with your recent post.
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

There was a "new" S8 chatroom all the time? Wow!

Greetings back from 1998!

MrWho - [thomas at icb dot at]
It was all Arnos fault! xD

Welcome to the Comment Room! Take a cookie and a Turing Test.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Welcome to the comment room - I'm assuming that you're a genuine "Gargoyles" fan and not another bot. (As you can see, we've been getting a lot of those lately.) Make yourself at home.
Todd Jensen

Hello. Since learning about the new comics continuation, I've been getting back into Gargoyles and was hoping to join the GargWiki to keep an eye on updates to certain pages, and maybe help out with the editing. However, I've not been able to sign up, since there is only a log in option, and Google told me the best place to get help was this discussion page. Thank you for your time.
BananaClownMan - [bananaclownman at gmail dot com]
BananaClownMan

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Ragdoll Hit - [rickrode37 at gmail dot com]

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rickrode - [rickrode37 at gmail dot com]

morrand > I'd forgotten that you haven't read Bad Guys. You're in for a real treat, both in terms of how the story evolves, and Karine Charlebois's great artwork (as well as Christopher Jones's sterling work subbing on issue 3). It would be great if Karine and/or Chris got to work on the Dynamite series at some point, but I know Dynamite tends to favor their own roster of talent.
Craig

I have an acquaintance who's had several fantasy stories published that are set in Mesoamerica (I want to say in Aztec society, but I'm not sure). Given an opening (and a sufficient quantity of social lubricant) he will hold forth passionately about how it drives him crazy that there's such a vivid world available there for story-building, and good story-building at that once you dig into the culture, and yet it's so underused.

But of course, happily, we here get to see some of that wider world. (I do wonder idly if we'll ever get more in-canon from the Mayan clan than what we've had so far.)

In other news, fresh updates from the Kickstarter:

- The corrected volume 2 trade paperbacks are done, due into Dynamite next week, and from there out to the distributor.
- The hardcover books are running on the press now and are expected to Dynamite just before Christmas. The unsigned ones will go out right away, and the signed ones about a week after that.
- The Premier Editions are a bit trickier due to the gilding on the edges but are currently expected sometime in January.

I'm hoping this all pans out as expected. I am eager to finally get a look at "Bad Guys" after all this time.

morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]

SEAN - Well, I don't have any thoughts on the soundtrack, but I certainly welcome "Gargoyles" questions at "Ask Greg"; even with the revival from Dynamite, there've been hardly any there for some time.
Todd Jensen

Karrin Blue> That's a tough topic to gauge. Young Justice has been subject to a ton of studio politics and interference from Cartoon Network then on DC Universe then on HBO Max. I certainly wouldn't mind a renewal on Netflix but at the same time we're all aware on how Netflix treats its animated series.

Todd> I think one of the reasons the Byzantine Empire gets neglected in the "pop culture" standpoint is because like so many historical cultures of that area of the world, it gets lost in the perspective shuffle against things like the Roman Empire and the Ottoman Empire.

The last time I really saw any story set in the Byzantine Empire (besides the Demona series) was one of the Real Science Adventures by Brian Clevinger, the author of Atomic Robo. The story was "The Nicodemus Job" and was about a crew of thieves pulling a heist in Constantinople.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

Well, it seems like Warner Bros is getting bought out by Netflix. I wonder if there's any chance Young Justice might come back from hiatus again?
Karrin Blue

Hey y’all,

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Sean - [Seanliamreilly at gmail dot com]

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MATT - [The Byzantine Empire is one I need to read up on more.]

Yes, it does seem to be one of the more neglected parts of history from a "pop culture" standpoint, less familiar than the Roman Empire it developed from. I recently bought a book on its history by John Julius Norwich (actually, a compression of a trilogy on the Byzantine Empire's history), which I've looked through (it was how I found out about the historical background of "Demona" #4), but I haven't read it properly cover to cover yet. I should do that soon.

And "Demona" has certainly introduced us to much history, as well as Demona and Angelika's story. How many of us had heard of Sigurd Magnusson or Al-Kammad before that mini-series came out?

Anyone besides me think it's a pity Goliath can't do to these Internet bots what he did to the Macbeth robot in "The Price"?

Todd Jensen

Okay, now it looks like they're doing this just to rile us up.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

Ha. Now they are quizzing us!

Notable that "Queen of All She Surveys" came out a year ago today. That was a doozy of an ending. Excited to hopefully get some resolution of that in 2026 (after the Darkwing crossovers resolve).

Also fun that we are just about a year away from "Bronx" being released and we are heading into a follow up winter special in just a few weeks.

Like I said, it'll be a good December, but, like this year, we'll have a few months break from canon stories.

Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996

After the first unit sold, the marginal revenue a monopolist receives from selling one or more unit of a good is less than the price at which that unit is sold at because of?
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D. A downward-sloping demand curve
E. Diminishing marginal returns in production

Feasler - [vtnztvcdltaoxelsph at nespj dot com]
Feasler

Oh, I suspect the second half of December will be much busier in here. Two canon stories (and one of those being the finale of a series) should give us plenty to chat about.
Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996

Well, we haven't been posting as much lately in the past couple of weeks, though I'm not enough of a bot-expert to know how that would affect their posts. Maybe the room will pick up again when "Demona" #5 and the second Winter Special come out.
Todd Jensen

Back, foul bots! You shall not have this site!

Todd> The Byzantine Empire is one I need to read up on more.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

I'm tempted to say that anyone who goes ahead and clicks on the link to the "helpful resource" probably deserves to get ripped off (assuming that the "helpful resource" that the bot's linked to four times here this week is a scam - which it probably is).
Todd Jensen

I was visiting a local bookstore today, and noticed a new book on the history of the Roman Empire, incorporating the Byzantine Empire as well as the conventional Roman Empire in it. I couldn't resist turning to the section of Byzantine history covered in [SPOILER] "Demona" #4, and learned that Alexios overthrew and blinded Isaac in April 1195. That narrows down the events in that issue to somewhere in the first three months of that year, January to March. (It also mentioned that Isaac was infamous for having a taste for bizarre entertainments that many of his subjects disapproved of, though no mention of whether these included listening to tales told by mysterious wandering female storytellers.) [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen

Haven't posted in a few days and I kept meaning to do so. At the very least I should do my part and not surrender the site to the bots.

Good review, morrand and here's hoping there's no issues getting the finale.

So there's a new beat 'em up game that just came out Marvel Cosmic Invasion. Besides being a pretty good game and a love letter to the extended Marvel universe it also features a lot of great actors reprising some of their famous roles like Josh Keaton as Spider-Man.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

Thanks for your review, morrand, and I hope you won't run into any problems finding "Demona" #5 when it comes out.
Todd Jensen

Third!

It was a bit of a slog to get "Demona" no. 4 for some reason. My regular shop, as I mentioned before, failed to order it (and to date still hasn't gotten it). The second shop I tried didn't seem to have it either, and the third did have it but stacked in back of a number of other issues. I am getting the bad sense that print editions of this issue might be in short supply. That sense is enhanced by having run into a couple of other people over the weekend who were dodging spoilers. Whether this foretells more distribution problems or is just a string of bad luck, I don't know. Whatever the case may be, out of an abundance of caution, I'm going to selectively spoilerize my notes below.

As usual, I haven't read anyone else's comments so far, although I know there were plenty (and the quantity of spoilered text in the past couple of weeks definitely increased my appetite for this issue). Unusually, I did have a vigorous discussion about it in chat over the weekend, so my reactions will be somewhat colored by that.

The one thing I noticed right from the title page is that Demona's smiling like a used-car dealer all throughout the issue, a sure sign of trouble. No shock there (as it is Demona) but the cue is unusually direct here.

Right off the first page, we welcome back one familiar face [SPOILER] (Shahrizad) [/SPOILER] for certain. But (and this is one of the things we discussed vigorously in chat) is that [SPOILER] Puck hanging back in the crowd behind Tom? If it is not, it is absolutely a dead ringer for him, and if it is, it tells me that (a) he is keeping an eye on someone, possibly Tom, possibly Demona, possibly even Shari; or (b) this is a neat little Easter Egg with no special significance; or (c) the Puck is trying to escape the bonds of fiction and snuck into this frame even though he has no business being there. Compositionally, having that face right about at the center top-quarter of the panel means he's not hidden in the crowd: we're meant to notice him there, even though he doesn't seem to show up again and doesn't (yet?) seem to have any direct connection to this storyline. It is too obvious a face to be a coincidence. The thought of Shari and Puck sort of working in tandem, though, has some weird possibilities. [/SPOILER] Perhaps we're going to learn more in the next issue.

I am digging the character design of Modi here, for some reason. I'll confess that, when the "iron box" came up the first time, I had assumed it would show up again as the doom of the now-Constantinople clan (given the discussion there of what would happen if it sank into the sea) and am glad it was not.

We get (by my count) the third instance of "that's a verity" in the overall series so far (once in "Dark Ages," once in "Manhattan," and now here). It's always tricky to assume that's just a repeated phrase; it seems likely that it is, and I haven't sussed out a common thread, but it is interesting.

It's good to see Angelika and Magni getting more time together. I don't suppose it's a surprise they would. The art on page 8, and the way the shading is applied to their faces, makes both of them look much older, though.

The fact that Al-Kammad is [SPOILER] Shari's "old friend" is intriguing, and perhaps sheds a little light on what she was up to at the time, [/SPOILER] although I wouldn't swear to that from here. Demona's face at the end of page 9 is brilliant, though: something has gone awry, clearly.

Having [SPOILER] Shari [/SPOILER] play the detective is a brilliant choice, for the reason she gives.

And we get a faceoff between [SPOILER] Tom [/SPOILER] and Demona, and I find this one somewhat interesting for a couple of reasons. Demona is plainly not quite genocidal at this point: much as she would be expected to want to wipe out humans, and given her anger at this point in the story, she'd be completely expected to break her neighbor's neck, or something (and could certainly write it off to "taking off his own life in recognition of his guilt" or some such thing), and yet she does not: she evidently takes him at his word when he denies a prejudice against gargoyles. [SPOILER] All the better for him she doesn't recognize the "thief" of her clan's eggs! [/SPOILER] It's just as well he doesn't get a chance to explain himself, quite aside from the plotline's need to hold that revelation for the end (for anyone who hasn't figured it out yet, anyway, and I confess I was one of them).

I have the nagging feeling I've heard the story of the bloodied weapon before somewhere [SPOILER] (trust the storyteller to spot it as well, perhaps) [/SPOILER]

I'm pretty sure we're getting a major clue in the denouement of the main story about wheels that are turning behind the scenes. [SPOILER] To have Shari bring up Cain and Abel, I mean...that has to be something, hasn't it? [/SPOILER]

And then we get the wrap-up of this chapter of Demona's story, in which the division between Angelika and Demona is made clear. And, I suppose, the division between [SPOILER] Angela and Demona is also made clear in a different way. Little kid Angela is cute as a button, and the affection between her and Tom is really endearing here. [/SPOILER] Thus, onward to the final issue.

Something that struck me, somewhere between this issue and the chat I was in. We are seeing in this series just how important it is to Demona to have companionship. The major story driver here has been Demona's need to control that companionship, despite the fact that the other half of that relationship has their own needs and desires. This goes all the way back to the beginning, though. The need for the gargoyles to have company is apparently intense, intense enough that Demona sought out other clans from the start of her solo journey, but also intense enough that Goliath effectively gave up his life rather than live without his clan, intense enough that Angelika hooked up with Demona and (frankly) puts up with her crap for so long. To see this illustrated in this way is terrific. What's the password? [SPOILER] "Alone." [/SPOILER] (OK, that one shouldn't really be a spoiler, but it's the effect I'm after.) To feel solitude so keenly as to drive all sorts of atrocities, to fight viciously rather than to make those connections that might ease the solitude...I mean, none of this is news, I suppose: it's Demona, and it's at the core of her character. But somehow it's coming into focus here.

Brilliant work, Greg and Frank. I'll be intensely sorry to reach the end of the arc and yet I eagerly anticipate the next issue.

morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]

I'll SECOND that!
Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996

Well, first poster who's not a bot. (They do seem to be getting a lot more numerous - and are even double-posting.)
Todd Jensen