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Shan writes...
This has both an apology and a question. Apparently you answered my recently posted question previously, to Aaron, some time ago. The problem is that I did not see Thailog's archive (somehow my eye missed it that time) and only one for the Clones. The answer I wanted was in Thailog's archive but not in the Clones archive. Therefore, I thought I was asking a new question.
But I've also figured out what bothers me about Goliath's "he is my son" response. If, as you said in your response to Aaron, Goliath feels responsible and wants to bring Thailog into the fold -- where he told Angela she should see the clan as her parents -- should Goliath have said instead "he is the clan's son" or "he is our son" (though THAT would have been odd, since he's talking to Elisa!).
Is that taking it personal attributable to Goliath's personality then? Would most Gargs have said "Thailog is the clan's son" or "He is of my blood. He is one of the clan"???
Greg responds...
You're taking this stuff out of context, as you yourself indicates. The fact that he didn't semantically state it EXACTLY as you might wish he had, is unimportant. You get the idea.
Really, I think you're splitting hairs.
Shan writes...
I just got done watching "Double Jeapordy," and in it Goliath emphasizes to Elisa that he must stay on the rig and talk to/rescue Thailog because "he is (of?) my blood. He is my son."
However, later on he meets his daughter Angela, but doesn't realize the connection at first. After Sevarius clues her in about her biological parents (Goliath and Demona) and Angela starts pressing the point with Goliath, Goliath responds with something to the effect that children belong to the whole clan. It is not until Elisa's mother and Goliath have the heart to heart about children sometimes needing special attention that Goliath and Angela begin to bond more directly, if I'm not mistaken.
But with Thailog, Goliath wants to reach out and make a bond almost from the outset.
Is it the circumstances of Thailog's creation that make Goliath take more responsibility for Thailog from the get-go versus Angela, or is it (though certaintly not her fault) that the fact Angela is also Demona's child somehow alienates Goliath more at first? Is it something else entirely? I found the difference in attitudes striking.
Greg responds...
In fact, Goliath's initial reaction to Thailog is not to form a bond. It's to call him an abomination. (You blithely skipped over that, Shan.) Part of what follows is a bit of guilt mixed in with him taking responsibility for Thailog as a parent.
As to Angela, you've again missed his initial reaction to her on Avalon. It is clearly one of paternal pride, just as he is proud of Gabriel and all of his children.
Later, he NEVER denies her as his child. He simply is uncomfortable with her focus on him as her biological father. This also mixes in guilt -- survivors guilt this time. And a healthy fear that if she responds this way to him being her biological father, then how will she respond when and if she learns that Demona is her biological mother. If she had simply been calling him father from the get go, he'd have had no problem. But she didn't until she got word from Sevarius about biology. That's what troubled him. She wasn't thinking like a gargoyle. When "Goliath responds with something to the effect that children belong to the whole clan" that's not just a means of putting her off, it's not just something to say. That's how he was raised. That means something to him.
In any case, the Thailog and Angela situations are so widely different, it's really comparing apples and oranges. But I certainly don't see any inconsistencies in Goliath's behaviour.
Lord Sloth writes...
Reckoning:
1)At the fun house, when Goliath goes for help, why dosn't he bring Claw and Maggie. I know it's a pretty dumb question, but hey.
2a)Does Sevarius still work at Gen-u-tec, as well as at Nighstone. Does he still work for Xanatos, or do Xanatos new priorities require letting Sevarius go. b)Would Sevarius make somthing like Thailog ever agian? Was he as scared by him as Xanatos was? c) Is Thailog on much better terms with his father Sevarius, or would he still like to kill him if he lost his usefullness?
Greg responds...
1. He doesn't have time to stop by BOTH the Clock Tower and the Labyrinth. If you were Goliath, where would you go? (Keep in mind that neither Claw or Maggie are really 'warriors born'.)
2a. As of when?
2b. Sevarius is not too big on common sense, I think.
2c. Thailog's not on great terms with any of his fathers.
Todd Jensen writes...
I must confess that one thing that surprises me a little about Demona is how long it took her to realize the truth about Thailog. After all, we're dealing here with a gargoyle who prides herself on not trusting anyone, who's utterly and thoroughly suspicious about everyone. And Thailog strikes me as being about as thoroughly untrustworthy as they come. But the interesting thing is that Demona doesn't seem to suspect that Thailog is an unreliable ally until he finally comes out and says it in "The Reckoning" with his "I've decided to: a) kill your daughter, and b) dump you in favor of a clone that I made of you, who, by the way, is also a part-clone of Elisa." Of course, the guy is thoroughly cunning (I particularly noted how, in "Sanctuary", he cleverly drew attention away from himself after Macbeth blasts his way to freedom with the laser gun that Thailog slipped him by shouting at Demona "Didn't you search him?"), and as Macbeth himself admitted when Angela raised the same question at the end of "Sanctuary", love can be blind. But I do find it intriguing that Demona was so thoroughly duped by Thailog for so long (though it has a certain appropriateness to it).
Greg responds...
I find it appropriate to. Indicative of her desire to be with someone who she could believe shared her worldview. (It has little to do with Thailog personally, I think -- and more to do with his resemblence to Goliath and yet the obvious contrast in his personality.)
But my question to you is what would you think could have possibly given Thailog away to Demona, before he was ready to drop his facade?
Vashkoda writes...
I don't know why I'm bothering to ask this, but just in case you're in a generous mood:
1a) Does Thailog ever find a mate (other than Demona, if you could call them mates)? b) Which race is she/he? (New Olympian, human, Child of Oberon, gargoyle, etc)?
2a) Does Hollywood ever find a mate? b) Which race is she/he?
3a) Does Burbank ever find a mate? b) Which race is she/he?
4a) Does Brentwood ever find a mate? b) Which race is she/he?
5a) Does Malibu ever find a mate? b) Which race is she/he?
6a) Does Claw ever find a mate? b) Which race is she/he?
7) Which race is Delilah's mate?
8) Which race is Lex's mate?
9) Will the Labyrinth clan have any gargoyle beasts by 2198?
Greg responds...
1-8. I'm not revealing any of this at this time, though I will say that at least some will find mates.
9. Yes.
Scott Iskow writes...
How did Thailog get that armor? Was it tailor made?
Greg responds...
He spent money. The logistics don't interest me too much. I'm sure it was made to his precise specifications, however.
WereFox writes...
I know we've spent a lot time talking about Demona's motivations, but what of Thailog's. I'm guessing a desire to prove his own legitamacy in light of his unique origins and the long shadow cast by his fathers, especially Goliath.
One thing that never made complete since to me though was why he turned on Demona. There can't be that many Gargoyles who would ally themselves with his "unique slant on things." Clones are fine but Thailog initially relegated them to the status of servile drones. Was it that Demona was a loose canon. Was he simply bored with her? Finally it occured to me that if he is trying to prove himself to be a better Gargoyle,by his own defintion, tthen Demona might very well seem like a "hand me down." Or perhaps, he realized that Demona saw him not as "Thailog", but as a Goliath substitute. Talk about a blow to your self worth!
Greg responds...
All very interesting observations. Lot of truth there.
I think you may be right about Demona, but you're also leaving his attraction (for whatever reason) to Elisa out of the equation.
And you may be giving the long shadow of Goliath too much credit. I tend to think Xanatos was the bigger influence and the longer shadow.
But it all sounds smart to me. (Except the "bored with her" part. Demona is many things, but never boring.)
WereFox writes...
I'd have to say that my favorite "off camera" moment for the series would have been Demona 1st encounter with Thailog. I know it wasn't necessary to show it, but such moments exist shearly for the look of shock and surprise you see on peoples faces. Had you actually imagined how it transpired? For, example, die Demona mistake Thailog for Goliath? Did Thailog get the drop on Demona first? Would have been a classic moment. Possibly the perfect counter point to "The Kiss".
Greg responds...
It'll make a good flashback some day.
Epantiras writes...
What are the names of the clones clan?
thanks!
Greg responds...
You mean the names of the clones or the name of their clan?
Anyway, as of 1996, when one might argue the Labyrinth Clan was founded, the cloned gargs included Hollywood, Brentwood, Malibu, Burbank and Delilah. There were also Mutates down there: Talon, Maggie the Cat, Claw and an imprisoned Fang. And a number of homeless humans who had found a home beneath.
Thailog's also a clone, but he wasn't exactly part of this clan.
matt writes...
ok, now a few questions about "The Reckoning"...
1. did Demona keep a "mosquito" in her belt buckle for each gargoyle or just Lexington?
2. did she and Thailog plan to get Elisa's DNA together or was everything about Delilah a secreat from Demona? what i mean is, did Demona plan on getting Elisa's DNA or not?
3. TGC episode "Genesis Undone" is not canon, and you've said that Thailog had not died in the fire, is that right? if so, would he have suffered any major lasting injuries from the fire? if he did survive, why did he let Demona go on running Nightstone Unlimited even though some of it belonged to him?
4. i'm guessing Fang went back to his cell, correct?
5. if Sevarius could so easily combine human and gargoyle DNA to make Delilah, why not mix and match different gargoyle DNA for a bit of diversity? or did he? i've noticed that the four main clones seem to have combinations of different gargs. for instance, Hudson's clone looks mostly like Hudson, but has Lex's coloring, and Brooklyn's clone looks mostly like Brooklyn, but has Broadway's coloring and fanned ears. was there mixing going on?
Greg responds...
1. More than one for each.
2. Not.
3. He was laying low.
4. For a bit.
5. No. The coloring changes were a result of the forced aging. The same thing that caused Thailog's coloring to be different from Goliath's.
Vanity writes...
Hey:
1) Does Burbank have a bad eye like Hudson?
2) Does Burbank,(after adjusting to making his own choices) like the same activities as Hudson?
3) Whose idea was it to make the clones? I don't mean YOU I mean Demona or Thailog. I mean I am sure that making clones is a very expensive and time consuming endevour and it seems odd to think Demona would be happy to have clones of the clan she hates. Of course Demona doesn't exactly think things out very well....
Greg responds...
1. No.
2. Not necessarily.
3. Thailog's initially. But Demona didn't resist the idea.
Aaron writes...
I'm probably thinking too human on this, but there is one thing that has always bugged me.
Goliath takes such issue to being Angela's parent, but he was ready to adopt Thailog as his son?
I presume he meant in the rookery father sense, although the language seemed a bit off. Maybe because I'd regard a clone, particularily one who was as physically mature as me, as a brother rather then a son. But again, that's just me.
Greg responds...
Adopt is a strong word. He simply was ready to take responsibility and try to bring him into the fold, in the rookery sense.
Cary Bates agreed with you. Wanted to view Thailog as a brother, not a son. But that didn't match up either with the biology or with Goliath's mindset. At least not in my mind.
Anonymous writes...
Did Demona and Thailog "mate" as in reproduce? That was what I meant by mate.
Greg responds...
No. Timing wasn't right.
matt writes...
how long had Demona and Thailog been a couple when Goliath arrived in Paris? how long had Demona and Macbeth been in Paris?
Greg responds...
The following dates are tentative, based on my current reworking of the timeline -- still a rework in progress.
Demona and Macbeth arrived in Paris on 1-1-96.
Demona first encountered Thailog on 1-2-96.
Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx arrived in Paris on 1-21-96.
Basilisk writes...
If Demona had never "turned on" Thailog as she did in THE RECKONING, what would he have done with Delilah?
Greg responds...
Frankly, he'd have kept her around. On the sly.
warrioress writes...
In "Double Jeopardy" Sevarius implied that Thailog's odd skin and hair color was due to the "artificial maturation rate". That said, would Thailog have been the same color as Goliath if he had been allowed to age "naturally"?
Greg responds...
Yes.
Corrine Blaquen writes...
Did Thailog turn to stone during the day when he was in his growth tank?
Greg responds...
Yes.
matt writes...
Delilah is a Human/Gargoyle hybrid but she seems to be more of a combination of Demona and Elisa as a garg as she was seen in "The Mirror". given that we've seen only one episode with Delilah but why does she seem totally garg without any human characteristics?
Greg responds...
That's arguable. And I don't feel like arguing write now.
Largely, Thailog wanted a garg mate, but he wanted her to be visually reminiscent of Elisa.
Anonymous writes...
Did Demona mate with Thailog?
Greg responds...
What do you mean by "mate"?
matt writes...
is it possible that Demona could lay an egg every twenty years since she is biologically a middle aged garg and (probably) still responds to those Earth rythm things? do gargs mate any time they want or only every twenty years? did Demona have sex with Thailog? sorry about the vulgar questions... :)
Greg responds...
Gargoyles potentially have sexual relations more often than once every twenty years. Fertility and lust are two separate issues, not that they are mutually exclusive either.
In theory, Demona could lay an egg every twenty years, assuming she had a mate who mated with her when she was fertile. That hasn't been the case.
As to Thailog, to be blunt, the answer is almost certainly yes. But they broke up years before Demona would be fertile again.
matt writes...
Angela is genetically Thailog's daughter too, correct. now, i realize these are wierd circumstances but wouldn't he feel some sort of kinship to her or at least have feigned it to avoid a conflict with Demona? I just don't understand why he wanted to kill her so badly or at least why her death should come before the others. demona said that, "She belongs to me!" why didn't Thailog just let Demona keep Angela chained up, it would have saved him alot of trouble, really.
Greg responds...
I agree with your last statement.
But I don't think Thailog views Angela as a daughter at all.
And keep in mind that from Thailog's point of view, Demona had weeks to turn the girl and failed. Now he wanted to test Demona. And maybe he was more than ready to replace her with Delilah.
Joxter writes...
You've said that Xanatos basically stopped trying to make his own gargoyles after Thailog because Thailog scared him. For what reasons is Xanatos scared by Thailog?
Greg responds...
As Owen pointed out, Thailog was stronger and smarter than Xanatos. His creation, no longer under HIS control.
Scares me, anyway.
Maria writes...
Hmm, one more question I think. . .
I've been curious about Thailog lately, and I'm not sure if it's a subject that has really been covered. I know you've said before that you don't have any immediate plans for making him an ally for the clan. But what about later in the future? Does he have any inner struggles or regrets that could later humble him? Or is he plain and simply just flat out evil? I have a hard time believing in true evil unless you're someone like the devil - whose name I HATE to mention. And likewise, I have a hard time seeing him as purely evil. . . . but maybe that's just me.
Is there anything that you could tell us that might suggest a change of heart in Thailog maybe a season or two - if ever - before he dies - again if ever -? Probably a touchy subject, but I just thought I'ld ask.
Greg responds...
He's amoral and twisted. But "pure evil" isn't really the way I think of him.
That's all I'll say now.
White writes...
I am curious... I know Xanatos *programmed* Thailog. But is that just a way of saying that he thaugh him everything or does it really mean that Thailog can be *programmed* with a computer or something.
I just don't understand the concept.
Thank you
Greg responds...
Specific information was forcefed to Thailog while he was still in his maturation chamber. The choice of info and the spin put on that info, was Xanatos'.
Todd Jensen writes...
This is a comment inspired by your recent answers to the "Tempest" question. While you never did manage to get "The Tempest" into Gargoyles outright (and I found that a pity, for my own part), I've sometimes thought that Angela does resemble Miranda a little (in the same way that, to me, Thailog resembles Edmund in "King Lear" and Demona Shylock) - there's the same general concept there of a sweet, innocent girl being brought up on a mysterious magical island and filled with wonder at the outside world (Miranda's "brave new world" lines strike me as being just as suitable for Angela as they were for the original speaker). I just thought that you might be interested.
Greg responds...
Yeah. Angela/Miranda. That's there. But I won't pretend I was conscious of it. But like with Thailog/Edmund, the play is such an intrinsic part of my consciousness and education, I'm sure I was influenced by it.
Todd Jensen writes...
At the end of "Double Jeopardy", Xanatos comments about Goliath and Thailog, "I should have known that no copy could ever live up to the original." What I found interesting about that remark is that Thailog was the last attempt that Xanatos made to create "his own gargoyles". After that, he made no new efforts to come up with "gargoyle-substitutes" - he used the already-made Steel Clan robots in a few cases, and he also welcomed the Mutates' services when they came back to work for him in "The Cage", but he did not come up with brand-new schemes of that sort. Did this remark of Xanatos's above indeed indicate the end of that particular strategy on his part?
Greg responds...
Yep. Also, I think for once he was chastened. Thailog scared him a bit.
Charles writes...
How did you or one of your fellow creators come up with the idea for Thailog's name? I realize it is Goliath spelled pretty much backwards.
Greg responds...
I was at a sound mix session for the edited version of AWAKENING. We kept playing scenes over and over to make sure the sound was right. We'd listen to it and then rewind to listen again. I kept hearing the word "Thailog" over and over and over again. It was driving me nuts. Finally, I realized it was "Goliath" SAID (not spelled) backwards. Right then and there, I came up with the idea for Goliath's evil clone. I knew what he looked like (inspired somewhat -- believe it or not -- by what John Byrne did to the Fantastic Four's costumes after their trip to the Negative Zone and by Darkwing Duck's nemesis NegaDuck) and I knew where he'd come from and I knew what he'd be named: THAILOG. It just sounded so great.
Demona (repost by Aris) writes...
Hi, Greg! I have a quick question for you -- why did Avalon send Demona and MacBeth to Paris? Goliath, Angela, Elisa, and Bronx were sent to Paris because of Demona and MacBeth. So, why were Demona and MacBeth there? Thanks!! :)
Greg responds...
Thailog. And a need for them to confront each other one more time.
Vashkoda writes...
Ok, let me cut my question into smaller bits (again, based on your revelation that "Thailog/Deliah wasn't over from my POV"). 1a) What exactly were you implying by the above statement? 1b) What is the nature of the Thailog/Delilah interaction you are implying in the above statement? 2) Will Thailog and Delilah resume their prior relationship? 3) When will the encounter/relationship implied by your statement occur (a general idea of the time, if possible, in relation to other events in the show (ie: several months after Hunter's Moon)). 4) How long will this encounter/relationship last? 5a) What would be Delilah's level of intelligence during this encounter/relationship with Thailog? 5b) How far would she have advanced beyond her original programming at the time of this encounter (or at the beginning of it, if it lasts any significant period of time)? 6) Was Delilah's attraction to Thailog that we saw in "The Reckoning", entirely a product of her programming, or was there something more? 7a) Is Thailog capable of true love? 7b) If the answer to 7a is yes, is he willing to admit/express these feelings, or will he deny them as Xanatos did until the end of "Eye of the Beholder"? 8) Considering how much of Xanatos's way of thinking was programmed into him, how concerned with immortality *is* Thailog?
Greg responds...
1a. That their story hadn't ended.
1b. I'm not telling now.
2. Not exactly.
3. Don't have it nailed down with that kind of precision.
4. Not telling.
5a. Her intelligence has never been in question.
5b. Don't know.
6. All of the above.
7a. Everyone's capable. Doesn't mean everyone allows it to happen.
7b. Depends.
8. Less.
Tk writes...
Do you think because the Way Thailog acts twoards Elisa if she was in trouble and he was there would he save her? Thank you sir
Greg responds...
If he thought he could use her.
(Hypothetical questions make me uncomfortable. Everything is situational.)
Tk writes...
Does Elisa feel uncomfortable when Thailog is around?
Does Goliath feel uncomfortable when Thailog is around when Elisa is around?
EX: In " Double Jeopardy" When Thailog was talking about/to Elisa.
Thanks THats all For Now
Thank YOU
Greg responds...
1. Well, she doesn't feel cudly.
2. He's a villain who could put her at risk. What do you think?
Basilisk writes...
Did Demona ever actually love Thailog? My impression was that she went to him because he was a sort of Goliath with her goals. I always thought that in her heart, Demona still loves Goliath, but her obsession with denying her guilt was so great that she could not allow herself to care for him. Is this at all correct?
Greg responds...
More or less.
Though what she convinced herself of and what was true may have been two different things.
Zeliard writes...
Hi mr. Weisman!
In Metamorphosis, why Xanatos didn't provided Goliath's DNA to Sevarius?
Thanks!
Greg responds...
He had already. That was a lie to help fool Derek. Thailog was already in the works.
Vashkoda writes...
Today you revealed that "Thailog/Delilah wasn't over from my POV". Were you planning on having them get back together early on, before Delilah became educated and understood that Thaylog was trouble? (In other words, she would go to him because she was still controlled by her programming and not because Thaylog won her affection legitimately?)
Greg responds...
You're question makes so many assumptions, there's no way for me to answer it simply. And I'm not prepared to go into the ENTIRE story here. Try breaking the question down a bit and resubmitting it.
At any rate, it's not as simple as your alternatives suggest.
Chris writes...
I'd like to apologize ahead of time if this question has been asked but I checked the archives and I couldn't find it. Soooo...
Would Jon Canmore/Castaway keep trying to kill Demona if he found out she was immortal, since he seems to be VERY hell bent on killing her? Would he refuse to believe it, and try anyway?
Greg responds...
He'd keep trying. But he's sophisticated enough to try methods that he felt had at least a chance of working. These methods would depend on what he knows at any given time. But, hell, Thailog found a way. ("Sanctuary") He failed, but he found a way. If he can do it, so can someone else.
Chapter XIII: "Reawakening" (The new ramble...)
As promised, I'll now attempt to recreate the lost ramble on this episode, which I recently watched again with my family.
For those of you who haven't seen it, I refer you to my recently posted "Memo" on this episode dated back in April of 1994. One thing you might have noticed was that the title of the episode was "The Awakening". In the memo, I suggested what I thought was the more appropriate title "Reawakening". Michael liked that idea but had a suggestion that did it one better. He suggested renaming our pilot five-parter "Awakening". I jumped at the idea. At the time, the five-parter was simply titled "Gargoyles, Part One", "Gargoyles, Part Two", etc. I've never liked that sort of cop out where the pilot's title is simply the series' title. Among other things, it lacks imagination. And it's dishonest. By that standard, "The Journey"'s real title should have been "Gargoyles, Part Sixty-Six". So giving our pilot its own title seemed like a very good idea to me.
But there was another reason why I liked Michael's plan. We were working on our last episode of the first season. It was April of 1994, nearly a year before that episode would air. And a good six months before our premiere. There was no way of knowing whether or not there would ever be a SECOND season. And so to protect myself (emotionally) I had to operate on the assumption that their might not be. Obviously, I wasn't going to do anything apocalyptic. I wanted there to be a second season, so I wanted to leave the doorway open for it. So Michael, Frank, Brynne and I discussed the idea of open-ended closure. If there never was a second season, we'd go out with a bang. We'd give some small amount of closure to our characters. Let them reach a turning point. If this was to be it, we'd have created a little 13 episode novel that brought the Gargoyles from the past to the present and renewed (reawakened) their sense of purpose.
Nice. We'd done the open-ended closure thing (to a lesser degree) at the end of what would eventually be called "Awakening, Part Five" and we'd eventually do it again at the end of "Hunter's Moon, Part Three". And I'd do it for myself in my script for "The Journey".
But there are tricks to achieving a sense of closure. And one of the tricks is to create parallels with the episodes that launched your story.
So by retro-titling our pilot "Awakening" and naming our last ep "RE-Awakening" you can see how we gave ourselves a headstart.
But there were other parallels. The flashback to the past, (which we intentionally built so that it could theoretically be edited into the pilot if necessary) included the Magus at his most pre-Avalon obnoxious. Obviously, that flashback also intro'd pre-Coldstone, but it served the purpose of calling those first couple of flashback episodes clearly into the viewers' minds. (The only problem with that scene, is that Hudson has his sword in a couple of the shots. This is a mistake, as any good Garg fan knows that Hudson first acquired his sword in the battle with the Vikings that took place the following night.)
We also did the big event VILLAIN TEAM-UP thing, bringing Xanatos and Demona back together for the first time since "Awakening, Part Five". (I love the exquisite tension that plays between them. They are both SO using each other. When Demona tells Coldstone that X is her servant, you know that she's partly doing that to circumvent Coldstone's questions, but that she also partly believes that it's true.)
We also used Morgan in Times Square in a very similar way to how he was used in "Awakening, Part One" (reiterated in "Awakening, Part Two").
And then there's that moment near the end where Elisa asks Goliath if there's anything he needs. He answers "A Detective" verbally echoing a key moment from their first meeting in "Awakening, Part Three". That still tickles me.
HOMAGE
Obviously, Frank and I both worked overtime to pay homage to the classic Universal "FRANKENSTEIN" movie. I can say "pay homage" with a straight face (as opposed to rip off) because we so clearly acknowledged the source. Frank's art direction of the lab. X's line: "It's alive! Alive!" (Wonderfully undercut by Jonathan Frakes' reading of the follow-up "I've always wanted to say that.") And the whole idea behind Coldstone. (More on this when I eventually ramble on "Legion".)
Coldstone would be our Frankenstein's monster. Pieced together. Gargoyle & Machine. Reanimated (reawakened). I even love the Coldstone name. And wasn't Michael Dorn's sepulchral tones just perfect for the role?
And Goliath's reaction is so multi-faceted, so Dr. Frankenstein... [You know Goliath's response to his brother here, would be echoed later in his response to his "son" Thailog in "Double Jeopardy". Initially, Goliath's simply repulsed by what he sees, calling Coldstone "an abomination". But given a bit of time, Goliath quickly sees past appearances and attempts whole-heartedly to save his brother. He'll go through the same changes with Thailog. Well... at least we (and Goliath) were consistent.]
CONTINUITY
Snow. It started snowing in "Her Brother's Keeper" and now the city is blanketed in the stuff. (And doesn't Elisa look cute in her scarf and gloves.)
Brooklyn's still pissed off at Demona, specifically and sarcastically asking if she has anymore "spells to save you now". In fact, we wanted to make clear that the spell used to resurrect (reawaken) Coldstone was one of the spells she tore out of the Grimorum in "Temptation". Instead, we cheated a bit. By having her tell Xanatos that the "Cantrips have already been spoken" it saved us the trouble of getting another spell translated into Latin. We were either lazy or short on time or -- most likely -- both.
Following out of "The Edge", and until the helmet comes off at the bridge, the gargs assume that Xanatos in his armor is simply another Steel Clan Robot. The next upgrade. The red model. They have no idea it's actually Xanatos himself in armor.
Small observation: Mirrors don't fare too well in the Gargoyles Universe.
Emotionally, I think the story is very successful at taking the audience through Goliath's spiritual reawakening. I love how he starts out pensive and brooding, listening to that great exchange between the trio and Hudson, realizing that all of them have lost track of their true purpose. Hudson recites the Gargoyle credo merely as an excuse not to go out in the cold. (And I love Thom's reading on Lex's "We don't even live in a castle anymore" response.) The trio are clearly missing the point, but methodical thinker Goliath isn't sure he remembers what the point is either.
And that dovetails SO nicely with Elisa revealing the Police motto "Protect and Serve". The police motto/gargoyle credo connection is so perfect, it struck me even at the time as further proof that we were tapping into something very true in our little fictions. (And don't cops -- for better and sometimes for worse -- act just like a clan?)
From there, Goliath moves past the notion of simply being a reactive character, struggling only to SURVIVE one crisis after another. Now he will strive to be proactive. To rededicate (reawaken) the clan toward their original life purpose. Extending the term "castle" to Manhattan island was always our plan. Even that was intentionally primitive in our view. Goliath doesn't protect New York City. Not all five burroughs anyway. That's beyond his medieval scope at this still-early stage. He can get his head around protecting an island surrounded by water. Not the whole world. But eventually, the plan would include expanding the clan's definition until Castle Earth was the only thing that made sense. Of course, that might not have been fully realized until 2158. But we'd have gotten there. And the World Tour was part of that process too.
PROBLEMS
(Besides Hudson's sword...)
--One line in the ep. that for some reason still makes me cringe is Elisa's "My car's big." It just seems awkward to me. Not sure why.
X & D watch Coldstone's progress from the castle. Almost instantaneously they're at Times Square. We always knew we were just skating by on that.
Goliath & Coldstone go into the water at the bridge TWICE within the span of a couple of minutes or so. The first time, Goliath nearly drowns. The second time he's completely uneffected (physically) by the experience. We get away with it because the second time he's diving in on purpose. But just the fact that we had to dunk them both twice is an awkward construction (and my fault). At least, Goliath looks good with wet hair.
Some really graceful animation here. Goliath has some great moves, and I love that moment when Matt and especially Elisa are diving into the snow, out of the way of the car that Coldstone has just thrown... And speaking of that scene...
TIMES SQUARE SEQUENCE
There's some very interesting, fun stuff here besides what I've already mentioned about it above. A sampling:
Explosions in Bambi. :)
Demona's Clan: Herself, Coldstone, a Steel Clan Robot and Xanatos in Gargoyle Battle Armor. It's so twisted. I love it.
Goliath's very smart here. He doesn't want the fight to take place in public and basically convinces Xanatos to take his side on the issue by flattering him. Goliath refers to Manhattan as "your city" (i.e. Xanatos' city), this despite the obvious fact that Goliath does NOT regard Manhattan as Xanatos' personal property. And Xanatos, usually immune to such stuff, falls for it -- maybe BECAUSE it comes from the ultra-sincere Goliath.
I also am very fond of the Mr. Jaffe book-ends. I think they're a lot of fun. And I love how Matt talks about Mr. Jaffe. It gives us insight into Matt's character, his background, his youth. His empathy for Jaffe really helps humanize him. Matt was always eminently human.
Signing off now...
"Because six monsters just told me to..."
Adam writes...
What was Thailog thinking when he turned on Demona? He can't kill her and after all the quality time he'd spent with
her, he has to know that she can carry a grudge for centuries.
Greg responds...
I think Thailog perceived Demona as the kind of loose cannon that he ultimately had to eliminate one way or another. If that meant chaining her in a funhouse basement, so be it.
Anonymous writes...
Greg,
Did you think about expanding the Thailog/Delilah relationship beyond the master/slave idea?? After all, combining Demona's and Elisa's DNA had to make Delilah more inteligent than Thailog realized. It just seems that since Xanatos has Fox, Thailog may need/want a Delilah. A father like son situation.
Greg responds...
Thailog/Delilah wasn't over from my POV.
Demona writes...
Hello, Greg. Quick question -- what exactly does Demona's company "Nightstone Unlimited" do? Does she just use it to hire people to do her dirty work? Thanks!
Greg responds...
It's into a lot of things, attempting to compete with the likes of Xanatos Enterprises and Cyberbiotics.
Aris Katsaris writes...
From what I understand Avalon sent Macbeth and Demona to Paris because Thailog was already there. But why had Thailog decided to go to Paris? What was he doing there before he met Demona?
Greg responds...
Setting up Nightstone and enjoying the City of Lights.
Vashkoda writes...
Hi Greg! #1) Are any of the Labirynth clones going to have children? #2) Will Thailog? Thanks!
Greg responds...
1. Yes.
2. Good question.
Mara Cordova writes...
I noticed recently that there are several recurring names in the series. For instance, Peter Maza and Petros Xanatos have similar first names (both mean "rock", right?). Also, Thailog's chosen first name during "Sanctuary" was Alexander, the same name the Xanatos' named their baby. If you want to go a little on a limb, their's even a name connection between Alex, the baby, and Lexington, or Lex, the gargoyle. Is all this coincedental, planned, or a fluke?
And if it was planned, what were the reasons for it?
Greg responds...
The Peter/Petros thing was something that I planned that wound up being a fluke. Petros was my original name for Petros, but somehow in the script for "VOWS" the writer chose another name. (My memory on this is very vague.) At the recording session, someone had an objection to the new name. (It wasn't me.) But since there was a desire to switch, I piped up with Petros again.
The Alexanders was semi-planned. That is when it came time for Thailog to choose a name, I couldn't think of anything else he would choose besides Alexander. Same for Fox & David. Nothing else worked. (Nothing I could think of anyway.) Obviously, I was aware that both Thailog and the Xanatos' were choosing the same name. But I liked that. Made perfect sense to me, since Xanatos programmed Thailog.
As for the Lex/Alex thing, well that is more of a fluke. Not that I was unaware of it. But it just worked out that way.
Angela writes...
Did Demona like Thailog because he was what she wanted Goliath to be like? I mean, he practically was Goliath genetically, but he was bad. Thanks, Greg!
Greg responds...
I think that was part of the equation. A large part. Though I doubt, Demona would have thought of the Thailog of that time as being "bad". Though Thailog might not have minded, as long as you said he was "very bad."
Todd Jensen writes...
Does Thailog have an Oedipus complex? I mean, the combination of his effort to kill his "fathers" (Goliath, Xanatos, and Sevarius), and his choosing for a mate first Demona (Goliath's original mate) and then Delilah (a combination of Demona and Elisa, Goliath's past and future mates, with this feature being his idea) does get me wondering whether he could have such a feature.
Greg responds...
That's a fair assessment.
Thailog, you Bastard.
Yeah, Todd, the archetype of the Bastard (particularly the more villainous Edmund version) was definitely running around my head when Cary and I created Thailog.
I recall that Cary was thinking of Thailog in more evil twin mode. As Goliath's brother (after a fashion). This was a legitimate approach, but I guided him toward making Goliath and Thailog into father/son figures. And by throwing in Xanatos and Sevarius as father-figures as well, I was hitting the Bastard idea head on.
After all, who is Theseus' father? Aegeus or Poseidon? Both had "intercourse" with Theseus' mother. Both claimed Theseus as his son. And Theseus was smart enough not to disagree with either.
(Though in his heart, I think Theseus' true "father-figure" was his maternal Grandfather.)
Airwalker writes...
When Thailog reappeared in TGC, he had as a result of the rollercoaster fire a damaged left hand. But what damage did you intend him to have as a result of that fire? Was it to be of the same extent as TGC did, or did you intend for it to be worse, or did you intend for there to be no physical damage whatsoever?
Greg responds...
I wasn't planning any long-term damage -- not with his healing factor. BUT PLEASE stop asking me questions in the context of TGC. It makes me very uncomfortable.
Airwalker writes...
In the time the clones have been living with Talon in the Labyrinth, have they evolved at all beyond their programming or would they run back and "Obey Thailog" at the drop of a hat if they saw him?
Greg responds...
That would make the premise of a good story don't you think?
At any rate, that was my plan.
Jenna writes...
Hello there, Greg--was wondering two things.
First-- How did the Childern of Oberon come into existance?
Second--Why did Golith tell Elisa that Thailog was his son in the ep "Double Jeapordy". Did he do it out of concern for him or guilt?
Greg responds...
1. Incubated magic. Evolution. God. CHOOSE YOUR POISON.
Sorry, as per the new rules, you'll have to resubmit question #2. I hope you do. (Though if you watch the episode again, you won't need to.)
Jackson writes...
Me again! Since I tend to think up questions one at atime, your request is one I can easily handle! Anyway:
1. Does Thailog have a certain attraction to Elisa? His behavior in "Double Jeopardy" and "The Reckoning" Seem to indicate this (the way he speaks and acts toward her in "Double Jeopardy" and the fact that he mixed her DNA with Demona's instead of making a ordinary clone of Demona to create Delilah in "The Reckoning"). If he does, is it because of the fact that he was created with Goliath's DNA? Or does he just naturally find something about her attractive?
Greg responds...
Thailog clearly finds Elisa attractive.
Now as to the cause....
Well you could attribute it to Goliath's DNA. But that sounds extremely unlikely as Goliath wasn't physically attracted to Elisa until he saw her transformed into a Gargoyle in "The Mirror".
So you either have to attribute it to some facet or facets of Xanatos' programming...
Or to the knowledge of Goliath's feelings for Elisa.
Or both.
Or something else.
Airwalker writes...
1. What would be Katana and Nashville's reaction to Malibu?
2. Do you have designs in mind for Katana, Nashville, Tachi, Fudog, and Hudson's mate? If so, could you describe them?
3. You said that Brooklyn ended up with Mary and Finella in the 1970's. So doesn't that mean that they would still be alive today?
4. Why did you say that Shakespeare's MACBETH would amuse Macbeth? It portrays Gruoch as a Princess of Darkness. How can he take pleasure in that?
5. In what era did Demona arrive in America (Colonial, Antebellum, Reconstruction, etc)?
6. In what era did Macbeth arrive in America (Colonial, Antebellum, Reconstruction, etc)?
7. Now that Renard knows the truth about Anastasia, has it changed anything for him in terms of his feelings for her?
8. Considering that after all is said and done, Goliath was raised and lived most of his life in the 10th century, what is his stand on capital punishment?
9. What are the feelings of the Trio about the Magus and Katharine, considering that they only knew them before they changed, and have never seen their redemption, only heard of it?
10. What are the Mutates feelings about the Gargoyles now living in the castle?
11. Any news on the movie?
12. If you had done BAD GUYS, would Macbeth and/or Demona have appeared?
13. Why didn't anyone ever figure out that Gilcomgain was the Hunter? He has slash marks on his face that match the one's on the mask.
14. Broadway's blindness in FUTURE TENSE, was it just Puck playing with Goliath's sanity AND a prophecy or was it only just Puck playing with Goliath's mind?
15. If the show ever did come back, would you ever bring up or try to make clearer that the people Demona smashed in CITY OF STONE were truly dead?
16. You said that Demona would find love again. But what about Macbeth? Would he have found love again?
17. How rich would you classify Xanatos, Demona, Macbeth, and Post-RECKONING Thailog (Mildly rich, extremely rich, stinking rich, beyond the reach of ordinary people rich)?
18. What did the Mutates do with Sevarious' potion from THE CAGE?
19. Would you have shown us some of Fang's past and also some of his family if BAD GUYS had been done?
20. Can you give us a clue, where in the world, which hemisphere, which continent, where ever, is Coldstone and Coldfire's new clan going to be?
21. What was the name of Xanatos' mother and when did she die?
22. You said you haven't come up with real names for Jackal and Hyena. But do you have anything in mind?
23. Does Macbeth know about the Illuminati?
24. Does the Illuminati know about Macbeth?
25. Would we have seen some of Lexington's descendants in GARGOYLES 2158?
Greg responds...
1. That would depend on the circumstances of their introduction, don't you think?
2. I've dealt with this recently. I do have a fairly clear idea about Fu Dog. But I'm not going to pin myself down at this point.
3. Doesn't preclude the possibility.
4. It has a lot to do with Mac's relationship to Will.
5. In the immortal words of my Magic Eightball: "Try Again Later".
6. Which time?
7. What exactly does he know?
8. He probably has little trouble with it but feels that in an ideal world (which he knows this is not) it's a less than stellar solution. Of course, that's all very theoretical. In practice, we've seen how he responds.
9. Distanced.
10. The Mutates aren't a monolith.
11. Nothing new, since I last answered.
12. Maybe, eventually, but not in my immediate plans.
13. Dramatic license? Or.... There were a lot of people with similar scars running around Scotland back then. Yeah. That's the ticket.
14. You didn't really think I'd answer that, did you?
15. You mean go out of my way to cover that?
16. Sure. Why not? (I'm such an old softy.)
17. Xanatos is Beyond the Reach rich. Macbeth is just stinking rich. Demona's extremely rich. Thailog's just rich.
18. Maggie saved it.
19. Yes.
20. Huh?
21. Not saying now.
22. Jack and Hanna. (Just kidding.) (Unless, I decide that those names really amuse me.)
23. Not saying.
24. Not saying.
25. Not saying.
*The Bride of Ringo* writes...
Hi there Greg... welcome back! Lemme jump right on in:
1) Ok, we know that demona felt love for thailog (or at least as much love as she's able to feel), however, what exactly were Thailog's feelings for her? Was he really only using her for money and (I'm assuming sex also)? Or did he ever feel genuine that was something close to love?
2) What are Delilah's true feelings towards Thailog? i mean, does she Love him (or even really like him?) or is she only following her programing?
Greg responds...
1. Gotta say that Thailog doesn't get the whole "love" concept yet. Not exactly programmed for it, and nothing in his experience has taught him that lesson. It's easy to forget that he was practically born yesterday.
2. Delilah was born even closer to yesterday than Thailog. Asking her to distinguish between her true feelings and her programming at this early stage in her development (i.e. at the time of "The Reckoning") is tough.
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