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I rewatched "Legion" today.
When Goliath and Lexington were reunited with Coldstone near the start, I suddenly found myself thinking of your mention of a (rejected) outline for a live-action adaptation of "Gargoyles" you'd written which had Goliath, Lex, and "Othello" as the gargoyles who'd be awakened in the modern world.
This time around, also, the Xanatos Program felt like a foreshadowing of "Future Tense".
I also wondered (just a wondering, not a question) whether the ivied balcony in Coldstone's memories (where he's standing while Iago's "pouring poison in his ear" about Desdemona and Goliath) was supposed to be an actual feature of Castle Wyvern before the massacre, or just a symbolic construct.
Yeah, one thing I'd have loved to do was to better integrate the Coldtrio into the early episodes.
I think maybe the castle might have had some kind of ivy. Maybe. Guess I'd have to research that.
1) The character Coldstone, originally being made from the pieces of three different Gargoyles, was shown to have contained the souls of those three Gargoyles. Did the ritual/experiment that brought life to Coldstone summon their three souls from the after-life, or does being shattered as stone trap Gargoyles in their shattered remains so long as a Wind Ceremony is not performed?
It's a fair question. And an open one.
ONE MORE TIME!! This looks to be as final a revision as it's going to get for Denver Comic Con website (http://denvercomiccon.com/), before I head for the airport in a couple minutes. But, again, follow me on TWITTER @Greg_Weisman to stay up-to-the-minute on when and where I'll be.
DENVER COMIC CON LATEST PANEL, INTERVIEW & SIGNING SCHEDULE
FRIDAY, JUNE 13th, 2014
10:30am - 11:20am - ART OF THE PITCH in ROOM 110/112.
Victor Cook, Greg Guler and myself will be talking about pitching and selling animated telvision series to the Powers That Be.
11:30am - 12:30pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
I'll be signing my novel RAIN OF THE GHOSTS throughout the weekend for $10 cash. (That $10 includes the book, a personalized signature and copies of the original development art by Kuni Tomita for the television version of Rain that never was.) I also have a half-dozen copies of Young Justice teleplays, which I'll sell (and sign) for $20 cash. I'll also sign anything else you bring and put in front of me for free - especially if you buy my book. ;)
12:50pm - 1:20pm - INTERVIEW with Tim Beyers of MOTLEY FOOL in the MEDIA LOUNGE.
1:30pm - 2:20pm - CARTOON VOICES I in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM.
I'll be moderating this panel, which features Kevin Conroy, Jim Cummings, Michael Dorn, Jennifer Hale & Veronica Taylor.
3:30pm - 4:30pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
4:45pm - 5:35pm - YOUNG JUSTICE in the MINI-MAIN ROOM.
This one includes myself (writer-producer, voice actor) & Christopher Jones (YJ companion comic book artist).
5:35pm - 6:05pm - OPENING CEREMONIES in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM.
7:00pm - 10:00pm - FOUR COLOR MIXER at Breckinridge Brewery/Hilton Garden Inn Denver Downtown.
SATURDAY, JUNE 14th, 2014
9:35am - 10:00am - INTERVIEW with BEYOND THE TROPE at my table at Booth 122.
10:00am - 10:20am - INTERVIEW with WESTWORD at my table at Booth 122.
10:30am - 11:20am - RAIN OF THE GHOSTS in ROOM 201.
I'll be reading from and discussing my new novels, Rain of the Ghosts & Spirits of Ash and Foam.
11:45am - 12:35pm - ANIMATION PROFESSIONALS in ROOM 201
I'm moderating this panel, which features Chris Beaver, Victor Cook, Greg Guler, Derek Hunter, Christy Marx, & Jan Scott-Frasier.
3:00pm - 3:50pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
4:00pm - 4:50pm - GARGOYLES 20th ANNIVERSARY in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM.
This is a big one, with me (writer-producer-creator), Victor Cook (storyboard artist), Jim Cummings (voice of Dingo), Jonathan Frakes (voice of David Xanatos), Greg Guler (character designer), Salli Richardson-Whitfield (voice of Elisa Maza) and Marina Sirtis (voice of Demona) .
5:00pm - 6:00pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
SUNDAY, JUNE 15th, 2014
9:30am - 10:20am - INTERVIEW with EXAMINER.COM at my BOOTH 122.
10:30am - 11:20am - THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN in the MINI-MAIN ROOM.
Includes myself (writer-producer-voice actor), Victor Cook (director-producer), Jim Cummings (voice of Crusher Hogan) & Greg Guler (artist).
1:30pm - 2:30pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
2:45pm - 3:35pm - CARTOON VOICES II in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM.
Again, I'm moderating for Robert Axelrod, Kimberly Brooks, Jennifer Hale & April Stewart.
4:00pm - 5:00pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
In addition to the times listed above, I'll often just be hanging out at my table, so stop by. Attend a panel, buy a book, say hello!
Okay, so I just took a look at the Denver Comic Con website (http://denvercomiccon.com/), and the schedule there doesn't always match up with the schedule I was sent. I'll make adjustments below, but what this really means is that I'm not 100% sure where I'll be at any given moment. I will be tweeting throughout the weekend though, so follow me @Greg_Weisman to stay up-to-the-minute on when and where I'll be.
DENVER COMIC CON LATEST PANEL, INTERVIEW & SIGNING SCHEDULE
FRIDAY, JUNE 13th, 2014
10:30am - 11:20am - RAIN OF THE GHOSTS in ROOM 201
I'll be reading from and discussing my new novels, Rain of the Ghosts & Spirits of Ash and Foam.
11:30am - 12:30pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
I'll be signing my novel RAIN OF THE GHOSTS throughout the weekend for $10 cash. (That $10 includes the book, a personalized signature and copies of the original development art by Kuni Tomita for the television version of Rain that never was.) I also have a half-dozen copies of Young Justice teleplays, which I'll sell (and sign) for $20 cash. I'll also sign anything else you bring and put in front of me for free - especially if you buy my book. ;)
12:50pm - 1:20pm - INTERVIEW with Tim Beyers of MOTLEY FOOL in the MEDIA LOUNGE
1:30pm - 2:20pm - CARTOON VOICES I in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM
I'll be moderating this panel, which features Kevin Conroy, Jim Cummings, Michael Dorn, Jennifer Hale & Veronica Taylor.
3:30pm - 4:30pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
4:45pm - 5:35pm - YOUNG JUSTICE in the MINI-MAIN ROOM
This one includes myself (writer-producer, voice actor) & Christopher Jones (YJ companion comic book artist).
7:00pm - 10:00pm - FOUR COLOR MIXER at Breckinridge Brewery/Hilton Garden Inn Denver Downtown
SATURDAY, JUNE 14th, 2014
9:35am - 10:00am - INTERVIEW with BEYOND THE TROPE at my table at Booth 122.
10:00am - 10:50am - INTERVIEW with WESTWORD at my table at Booth 122.
11:45am - 12:35pm - ANIMATION PROFESSIONALS in ROOM 201
I'm moderating this panel, which features Chris Beaver, Victor Cook, Greg Guler, Derek Hunter, Christy Marx, & Jan Scott-Frasier.
3:00pm - 3:50pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
4:00pm - 4:50pm - GARGOYLES 20th ANNIVERSARY in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM
This is a big one, with me (writer-producer-creator), Victor Cook (storyboard artist), Jim Cummings (voice of Dingo), Jonathan Frakes (voice of David Xanatos), Greg Guler (character designer), Salli Richardson-Whitfield (voice of Elisa Maza) and Marina Sirtis (voice of Demona) .
5:00pm - 6:00pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
SUNDAY, JUNE 15th, 2014
9:30am - 10:20am - INTERVIEW with EXAMINER.COM at my BOOTH 122.
10:30am - 11:20am - THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN in the MINI-MAIN ROOM
Includes myself (writer-producer-voice actor), Victor Cook (director-producer), Jim Cummings (voice of Crusher Hogan) & Greg Guler (artist).
1:30pm - 2:30pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
2:45pm - 3:35pm - CARTOON VOICES II in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM
Again, I'm moderating for Robert Axelrod, Kimberly Brooks, Jennifer Hale & April Stewart.
4:00pm - 5:00pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
In addition to the times listed above - and especially since I'm no longer 100% sure of my schedule - I'll often just be hanging out at my table, so stop by. Attend a panel, buy a book, say hello!
I've got some questions about Iago, Desdemona, and Othello.
1. Was Othello's flashback in "Legion" real? Why was Desdemona so upset?
2. Do you plan to do your comic that goes more into Iago, Desdemona, and Othello? I'd love to see more of their story!
3. Since Coldstone flies with rocket power, as do Coldfire and Coldsteel, would they ever run out of fuel? What powers them?
4. Did Iago really love Desdemona, or does he just want her because she's taken?
1. Wow, you're really testing my memory. I think it was based on "real". Desdemona, as I recall, was upset because Othello believed Iago when he accused Desdemona of having an affair with Goliath.
2. There are no current plans for more comics, though I'd jump at the chance if it was offered. And, certainly, we'd have more on the ColdTrio.
3. Fair question, but I haven't given much thought to it, I'm afraid.
4. I'll leave that to your interpretation.
Do either Coldfire, Coldstone, or Coldfire require sleep to avoid mental exhaustion?
Haven't thought about it.
In High Noon, what would Demona and Macbeth have done if Iago hadnât been the personality to take control over Coldstone? What was their plan if Desdemona or Othello had taken over?
Thank you for your time and all that you do,
-Charisma82
I'm afraid I'd have to watch this again too. It's just been too long.
Greg
I was wondering about the backstory of Iago's deception to Othello. Could you elaborate on it? (i.e. what circumstance did he make Othello believe Goliath and Desdemona were betraying him, like did he show them kissing or something--I know gargs don't kiss, just a for instance...) Also, how did the situation get reconciled, I mean how did Goliath and Desdemona prove themselves or disprove Iago to Othello? I just wanted to know the story (or as much of it as you'd tell ;)).
Pretty Pretty Pretty Please?
With a cherry on top?
Yeah... no. Sorry, but that's a story I'd like to tell some day, so I'm gonna save the details, though if you rewatch "Legion" you can glean the gist of what happened.
How many of their senses do the coldtrio have in their robotic bodies? I mean, they can obviously can hear and see, but can they smell or feel?
They have no sense of smell or taste. There sense of touch exists, but is limited to pressure, heat, etc. There is no subtlety.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
February 3rd...
1995
It is still snowing as an armed assailant robs Mr. Jaffe's local grocery store, a childhood haunt of Matt Bluestone's. Goliath accompanies Elisa Maza on her shift, gliding above her car. David Xanatos and Demona revivify Coldstone from pieces of Othello, Desdemona and Iago. Coldstone makes a splashy public entrance in Time Square, where he's confronted by Goliath and the Trio. When Demona, Xanatos and a Steel Clan robot join Coldstone, the battle moves to the George Washington Bridge, where Elisa, Hudson and Bronx soon join the fray. Coldstone sacrifices himself to save Goliath and winds up dormant at the bottom of the river. Goliath and the other gargoyles rededicate themselves to protecting all of Manhattan.
Hi Greg,
I forgot a question that I meant to ask (that random #4 at the bottom of the post).
Coldstone is made from the shattered pieces of Othello, Desdemona, and Iago. Other than the Shakespear reference how was it possible that the pieces of these specific gargoyles to be used and no others? How did Demona get them anyway? I'm sure she didn't carry pieces of her rookery siblingings with her through the centuries.
Thanks!
They were in a pile at the castle, as the three gargoyles were in close proximity when they were shattered. Or more accurately, some of Desdemona and Iago's pieces got mixed in over the centuries with what was mostly a pile of Othello. I don't think there was an intent on mixing three gargoyles together when Coldstone was created.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 16th...
1996
When the real Hudson and Goliath return to the Clock Tower, they find Coldstone and are soon convinced that Othello controls his body. They follow Coldstone back to the Eyrie. Minutes later, Iago, Othello and Desdemona return to the Tower in their appropriated bodies. They free Lex, who surmises that Iago must now be in control of Coldstone and has tricked Goliath and Hudson into declaring war on Xanatos. The real Iago, still posing as Brooklyn, suggests that they destroy the Coldstone body once and for all. Othello agrees, despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that this action would strand the various souls in their new bodies. At the Eyrie, Puck uses the Coldsteel and Coldfire robots to capture Goliath and Hudson. The others arrive soon after. Iago knocks Lex unconscious to take him out of the action, but when Lex recovers, the spirit of Alexander enters his body. Puck, meanwhile, uses Coldstone's body to take down Angela/Desdemona and Broadway/Othello. Brooklyn/Iago tries to make off with Desdemona, but Puck uses Coldsteel and Coldfire to stop him. After some further conflict, Lex/Alex transfers Iago, Othello and Desdemona into Coldsteel, Coldstone and Coldfire, respectively. Coldsteel flees, and Coldstone and Coldfire take off in pursuit. Puck returns Alexander to the nursery and transforms back into Owen just before Xanatos and Fox return.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 16th...
1996
Xanatos and Owen make a third attempt to transfer the souls of Iago and Desdemona into independent robot bodies. It too fails. Later, David and Fox go out for the evening, leaving Alexander in Owen's care. Owen decides to teach Alexander his first lesson in magic. Owen transforms into Puck, then glamours himself and Alexander into dead-ringers for Goliath and Hudson. They "liberate" Coldstone from the Eyrie and take him to the Clock Tower. There, "Goliath" convinces Angela and Broadway to allow the souls of Desdemona and Othello to take up temporary residence inside their bodies. Coldstone is emptied of all three souls, and the Iago soul secretly enters Brooklyn. "Goliath" and "Hudson" then depart, leaving "Brooklyn" in charge. Iago convinces Othello and Desdemona to try out their new bodies. He then follows them to the Statue of Liberty, where he hints that they might keep Broadway and Angela's bodies for themselves. Meanwhile, Puck and Alexander enter Coldstone's body; they grab Lex, tie him up in a corner and gag him.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 1st...
994
Just before dawn, Goliath and Hudson discover that they have been following only a small contingent of Vikings; the rest must be preparing to attack the castle. The two gargoyles turn to stone before they can get back. Simultaneously, Demona nearly warns Othello and Desdemona, but changes her mind as she sees the Vikings approach. Instead, she hides at the foot of Wyvern cliff, where she turns to stone as the sun rises. Hakon attacks. The archers' sabotaged bows are useless, and the Captain opens the main gate, allowing the Vikings to enter Castle Wyvern, which is sacked. The humans, including Katharine, the Magus, Mary and Tom are led away bound. Hakon then sets about to destroy the gargoyles, including Othello, Desdemona, Iago and Hyppolyta. The Captain is "unable" to stop him. When the sun goes down again, Demona awakens to discover that the Wyvern Clan have been massacred. When she sees Goliath and Hudson returning, she cannot face them and flees before they can discover the massacre. The only other survivors seem to be the Trio and Bronx, who were in the Rookery. The survivors head for the Viking camp to take their revenge. When Hakon and the Captain hear the gargoyles approaching, they take Katharine as a hostage. The Magus mistakenly assumes that the Princess is dead. Blaming the gargoyles, he casts a spell on all but Goliath putting them to sleep "until the castle rises above the clouds." Meanwhile, Goliath confronts the Captain and Hakon atop a cliff. He rescues the Princess, and the two villains fall to their deaths. But when Goliath discovers that the rest of his clan has been turned to stone, he asks the Princess to watch over the eggs in the Rookery and asks the Magus to cast his spell one more time. Goliath is turned to stone with the others and placed atop Castle Wyvern. Demona later returns to the castle to find Goliath frozen in stone. She watches the Magus, Tom and Princess Katharine removing the eggs from Wyvern. She departs for good. Katharine dubs Tom the Guardian of the Gargoyle Eggs. Katharine, the Magus, Tom, Mary and the rest of Wyvern's human inhabitants take the eggs and leave the cursed castle to live under the protection of Katharine's uncle, King Kenneth II. Seconds later, three time travelers arrive in 994: the Demona of 1995 has brought the Demona of 975 along with the Goliath of 1995 to see the results of the massacre. But the 1995 Demona fails to convince the 975 Demona to take up her evil cause. The time travelers depart, returning to 975.
1995
Xanatos proposes to Fox and gives her the Eye of Odin as an engagement gift. She accepts both his proposal and the Eye. Alexander Fox Xanatos is most likely conceived on this night.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 25th...
1995
Lexington begins working on Coldstone in an attempt to bring him (or them) out of catatonia.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 20th...
1995
Coldstone's repairs are completed. He is reactivated and attacks the Goldencup building, where he downloads government defense specs and is infected by a potent computer virus. Elisa and Matt are called in to deal with the situation using R.E.C.A.P. Lexington and Goliath accompany them and reunite with Coldstone. All are initially unaware that multiple personas (Othello, Desdemona, Iago and David Xanatos' programming) are vying for control of Coldstone's body. Coldstone flees to Ellis Island, and Goliath enters his mind to sort out the trouble. Meanwhile, Xanatos takes delivery on another batch of Steel Clan Robots from Scarab Corp.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 6th...
1995
Fox is granted an expedited parole hearing at the request of grateful prison authorities. She receives an early parole and is reunited with Xanatos. Matt is certified to operate R.E.C.A.P. Elisa tells Lexington about R.E.C.A.P. Coldstone's self-repair systems are activated by Xanatos.
I know you don't like these sort of questions but i was curious. How do you think things would have played out if Desdemona, Iago, Hyppolyta and Coldstone had survived instead of the trio and Hudson.
You KNOW I don't like these questions... and yet...
I'll leave the answer to your imagination. Seems to be a theme today.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
May 8th...
1996
Xanatos begins to actively search the globe for Coldstone.
Who from his own generation was Goliath closest to pre-Massacre besides Demona? How close were Goliath and Coldstone/Othello?
Close. He was close to Desdemona too.
I'll try to keep this short, as I kinda already gave my 2 cents yesterday.
I didn't catch the Star Trek reference at the time, b/c I hadn't heard of that episode. Now that I've seen clips of it, I realize it was a brillant (for want of a better term) spinoff. Although I think over all the Angie-Desie-Broad-Cold kiss was better than Kirk and Uhura (spelling, sorry- that chick who voiced Diane! That'll work!)'s. I mean, I haven't seen the whole Star Trek episode, so I don't know what the alien's relationship was like, but those 2 were so freakin SHAKY. They looked like they were having a seizure out of passion, or something.
(I am sorry if this offends any Treky's out there. Like I said, I haven't seen anything but a 5 minute clip of the kiss. I'm much more of a Next Generation gal, anyway. Two words: MARINA SIRTIS. Plus it's really fun to see "Xanatos" and "Demona" flirting.)
I'm assuming you left Ms. S out of the TNG voice credits in your ramble cuz she wasn't in the episode. I'm cool with that, and I realize that if you gave credit to all the Star Trek voices, we would be here all day.
So yeah. I'm not really a big Cold trio fan (although I am a big fan of Coldstone's icecream-sorry, couldn't resist! I think of Micheal Dorn whenever I go in that creamery now!), but this episode was okay. And I was really excited that I finally got to see Angela (even if she WASN'T white with red hair like I always imagined. Don't ask me WHY.)
Oh and one little confession: Before I could remember what her name was, I used to call Coldfire "Starfish Face." I sincerely apologize for this crudeness. I never really got a good enough look at her, and I thought her horns kinda made her look like she had a starfish on her head. I really hope the animators and fellow fans forgive me for this, as when I got a better view of her in "City of Stone" and "Legion", I realized she was actually quite pretty.
OK, so that's my confession for the day (again, REALLY REALLY sorry!) Now I better go before some random Treky or Desdemona fan gets some vitual tar and feathers for me!
P.S.: Was it ever confusing to have both a Demona AND a Desdemona? I realize that other than in the first "City of Stone" they never had an episode together (CF wasn't in "Reawakening, was she?) but it's still seems like kind of a nusiance to me.
P.P.S: Have i mentioned I'M SORRY?!
The episode with the famous Kirk-Uhura kiss was not the episode I was referring to as inspiration. I'm talking about an episode guest starring Diana Muldaur.
Desdemona was never a name used in dialogue.
I feel odd for asking this, but I simply became (or at least my interest) piqued and felt that it must be asked.
Coldstone Creamery. What did you think when you heard the name (or at least when they started taking over the world)?
Nothing all that brilliant. Something along the lines of "Hey, we had a character named Coldstone!"
Hi Greg! I couldn't make it to Montreal this year, but I've made up my mind to go to Vegas. Thank you so much for the DVD; I'll buy several copies when it comes out! Now, on to my questions... This is something that's been puzzling me for a while, and I couldn't find it anywhere on the archives. I'd be so happy if you had the answers.
1. In the episode Reawakening, after Coldstone and Goliath fell into the river and Goliath was losing consciousness, he holds on to Coldstone's forearm. Is there a deeper meaning behind that? Was it:
a) a warrior wrist-shake
b) a cry for help
c) asking forgiveness
d) an unconscious reaction
If the answer is a, b, c, or d, why? If none of the above, what? I'm just so curious about that scene. It's so deep and moving; definitely one of the best scenes in the entire series.
2. When Goliath and Coldstone are in the river, Hudson is heard in the background saying "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air," it slowly trails off. Was Goliath thinking that and it trailed off as he lost consciousness? Was Othello? Or does it have a deeper meaning?
I would be so grateful if you had the answers! Thank you so much, and I look forward to meeting you in Vegas!
1. All of the above.
2. It's somewhat symbolic, but yes, Goliath wa thinking of it. And it trailed off as Goliath began to lose consciousness. I like to think that Coldstone was thinking something similar.
In preparation for my Ramble on "Posession", reprinted here is the 1995 memo I sent to Cary Bates about the outline...
Note that Coldfire's original name was actually "Goldfire". Yuck.
WEISMAN 7-4-95
Notes on Outline formerly known as "Tricksters"...
For starters we need a new title and a new number: 4319-067. "Tricksters" (4319-066) will join "Puck's Macbeth" (4319-052, I believe) in limbo until or unless we get a third season. (I haven't given up on either story.)
This is basically a Coldstone story with Puck as catylist. It's the next step in Coldstone's evolution after "Reawakening", "Legion" and "High Noon". Maybe call it "Possession" or "Possesions". Or "Cross. Double Cross." Or "Triple Cross" or some title-esque thing. I'm not sure.
BEAT SHEET
ACT ONE
1. The Himalayas. Middle of a blizzard. Some mountain climbers or locals are frightened off by a fur covered monster that they mistake for the Yeti or Abominable Snowman. They run off, but suddenly the monster is attacked by Xanatos in his battle armor alongside the Steel Clan Robots, all painted in snow-camouflage white. The monster puts up a fight, and in fact seems to be one heavily-armed Yeti. But he is eventually knocked out and defeated, revealing that he is Coldstone (wearing furs). DISSOLVE TO:
2. Eyrie Building some days later. Xanatos (dressed in a tuxedo) and Owen have Coldstone back in the lab where he was first created. They have deactivated him from the neck down. (Here's a weird thought: maybe they've literally removed his head from off his body.) Coldstone/Othello can hear them, see them and talk to them, but he cannot move or activate his weapons. (But for some reason his sense of smell has been magically enhanced -- no, just kidding.) Owen and Xanatos are talking about solving the Coldstone "problem". (The solution to which seems to involve two sheeted figures, lying semi-prone on tables at the back of the lab. These figures are the "COLDSTEEL" and "GOLDFIRE" robots. More on them later.) Unfortunately for Xanatos, they have not figured out how to accomplish his mysterious goal. The main problem is that Coldstone's creation involved magic, which Xanatos has no access to. Unless, he hints, Owen were to morph into Puck and wiggle his nose or something. But Owen reminds Xanatos that he is forbidden from using his magic except to train Xanatos' son Alexander. Well, Xanatos isn't too upset. He'll figure something out, and in the meantime Coldstone isn't going anywhere. Fox (dressed in an evening gown) appears on a video-intercom. Coldstone may not be going anywhere but they are. And they're going to be late. WIPE TO:
3. Alexander's room. Xanatos and Owen join Fox and Alexander. The new parents have tickets to see Verdi's opera "OTELLO" at the MET. Fox hands the baby over to Owen, giving him babysitter instructions, and Mom and Dad leave for their first night out since Alexander was born. DISSOLVE TO:
4. Eyrie Lab. Goliath and Hudson sneak in, and prepare to reactivate Coldstone. (Note: throughout this scene and the next, Hudson does not speak. Try to make this as unnoticeable as possible.) Confusion as to how Goliath found him is secondary to Coldstone's immediate concern for Goliath and Hudson's safety. Within Coldstone's cyber-mind, the battle continues. (Maybe we dissolve into the cyperscape to get a glimpse of that battle.) Coldstone's love (Desdemona) is trapped in an eternal conflict against Coldstone and Goliath's enemy (Iago). If the evil one should triumph, Goliath would be in grave danger. But that's exactly why Goliath has come. He's been worried about his brother and has studied magical scrolls to find a solution. If Coldstone will return to the clock tower with Goliath, Goliath feels he can end the conflict. Coldstone agrees and Goliath activates him. (Or reattaches his head.) They sneak out.
5. The clocktower. Bronx, Angela and the trio are there watching t.v. or something. They are suprised when Goliath and Hudson arrive. They just left on patrol a half-hour ago. But obviously, when Coldstone steps out of the shadows, everyone's even more surprised to see him. (Maybe Angela realizes that Coldstone is Gabriel's father.) Bronx approaches Goliath and Coldstone, growling low (but who exactly he is growling at is ambiguous). Goliath quickly kneels beside Bronx and calms him. (Only the audience notices the slight sparkle of magic and the glazed way Bronx treads off into a corner and immediately goes to sleep.)
Everyone's got tons of questions, but Goliath doesn't have time for explanations. Iago must be removed from Coldstone's body. The only way to do that is to temporarily empty out all of Coldstone's personalities. Then Othello and Desdemona can be safely returned without Iago. But where will Othello and Desdemona go while this takes place? Goliath reveals they will each have to enter one of us. Angela volunteers. And Broadway does too, before Brooklyn and Lex have a chance. Lex pulls Goliath aside: where'd he learn to do magic? Goliath answers "soothingly" that he studied magic while Avalon sent them around the world. Lex's suspicions magically melt away. Suddenly, he's more impressed by Goliath's new abilities than suspicious of them.
Goliath casts the rhyming (non-latin) spell. Desdemona is transferred into Angela. Othello goes into Broadway. Iago, theoretically, is released into the ether. And the empty Coldstone falls comatose to the floor. Brooklyn seems particularly startled by these events, but he seems to recover quickly. (The reason "Brooklyn" is shocked is because he's really been possessed by Iago. No one else realizes this, and Iago's smart enough to keep his mouth shut.) Othello and Desdemona are pleased that the spell worked. Lex asks if Broadway and Angela are still in there own bodies. Yes, but they will remain dormant until Othello and Des are transferred back into Coldstone. They are ready for that transfer now, but Goliath is tired from his magical exertion. He needs to go off and rest. He asks "Hudson" to go with him, Hudson nods and they depart.
6. We follow Goliath and Hudson. They lands on top of a nearby building (or some cooler location). Goliath morphs into Puck and then transforms Hudson into baby Alex. (That's who it was the whole time. The real Goliath and Hudson ARE out on patrol.) Puck announces that Alex's first magic lesson has officially begun. Welcome to SOUL TRANSFERENCE 101.
ACT TWO
7. Cut to Clock Tower. Without thinking about it, Othello/Broadway and Desdemona/Angela are holding hands as they wait for "Goliath's" return. Iago/Brooklyn notices this and approaches them. He suggests that while Goliath is off recovering, they can take their new bodies out for a spin. Lex (still hazy from Puck/Goliath's magical tampering) isn't sure about this, but "Brooklyn" thinks it will be all right. Soon Othello and Des will be reconfined back in the cyber-prison of the Coldstone body. They might as well enjoy this last chance at flesh-and-blood freedom. Besides, what's the harm? Oth/Bway and Des/Ang have to admit they wouldn't mind feeling the wind against their faces one last time. They take off for one last flight. As Iago/Brooklyn moves to follow them, Lex stops him. Neither notice that behind them, a flash of magic (Puck) enters the prone body of Coldstone. Lex feels they should wait for Goliath. So "Brooklyn" instructs Lex to stay behind and do just that. "Brooklyn" will follow the "love-birds" -- to make sure they stay out of trouble. He leaves. Lex watches him go. And suddenly, behind Lex, Coldstone looms threateningly.
8. We follow Des/Ang and Oth/Bway on a romantic flight through the city. It's glorious. Othello and Des are almost literally drunk with the sensation of being alive again in Broadway and Angela's bodies. They land on the Chrysler building (or wherever). Oth/Bway marvels at the simplest pleasures. The touch of Des/Ang's flesh and blood hand. The softness of her hair. Until now he had not realized how Coldstone's cyborg sensors and reanimated stone skin has dulled his senses. Des/Ang also appreciates the reality of true sensation over the electric illusion of life on the cyberscape. Brooklyn steps out of the shadows. And like a devil in their ears, subtly reemphasizes to them that the prospect of returning to Coldstone is a fairly grim notion. Too bad, he sympathizes, that there's no way they could keep the bodies they're in. Oth/Bway and Des/Ang exchange a guilty look. But the wheels are turning.
9. Back at the clock tower, the real Goliath and Hudson return home. Coldstone is there, very glad to see them. (No immediate sign of Lex or Bronx.) Goliath is glad to see his brother but both gargoyles are naturally cautious. They can't be sure which personality is in control. Almost on cue, Bronx comes treading out of the darkness, and behaves in a friendly manner toward Coldstone. That's good enough for Goliath and Hudson: Bronx has a sixth sense about this kind of stuff. If he trusts Coldstone, then the right personality must be in control. (What neither Goliath or Hudson notice is that when Bronx's "work" is done, he trudges blankly back into the shadows and plops down to sleep next to a bound and gagged Lexington. Bronx is still under Puck's spell.) "Coldstone" tells the gargoyles that Xanatos is plotting against them again. He's created new monsters that must be destroyed before they can be used against them. Goliath expresses disappointment but not surprise. Xanatos had called a truce between them, saying that he owed Goliath and the clan for helping to save Alexander. Obviously, Xanatos' version of debt is a little different than Goliath's. Golaith, Hudson and "Coldstone" depart for the Eyrie Building.
10. Oth/Bway, Des/Ang and "Brooklyn" return to the clock tower and find Lex tied up tight with steel cables. What happened? Coldstone jumped him. Obviously, Goliath's spell didn't succeed in forcing Iago out of the Coldstone body. He's got control and he's tricked Goliath and Hudson into launching an attack against Xanatos, destroying their truce. At first, "Brooklyn" protests that this is impossible. But when everyone turns to ask him why, he fumfers and covers quickly. Whatever has happened, Brooklyn says, the choice is clear. They have to destroy the Coldstone body. It's the only way to protect the world from Iago's evil. Lex is horrified -- moral qualms aside -- what would happen to Othello and Desdemona? What would happen to Broadway and Angela? Oth/Bway speaks up. Brooklyn is right. They have a chance to destroy Iago once and for all. Nothing else matters. Oth/Bway, Des/Ang and "Brooklyn" take off after Coldstone. Lex follows reluctantly.
11. Eyrie lab. "Coldstone" leads Goliath and Hudson. He pulls the sheets off the two covered figures to reveal two new robots: COLDSTEEL and GOLDFIRE. (Coldsteel is made of blue steel and modeled after Iago -- very powerful and dangerous, a fitting opponent for Coldstone. Goldfire is gold in appearance and modeled after Desdemona -- beautiful in a cold, art decco fashion, she is a fitting companion for Coldstone. Both have the usual built-in weapons. Plus Goldfire has built-in flame-throwers.) The resemblence to Coldstone's lover and foe are not lost on Goliath, and while he and Hudson question the situation, they do not notice "Coldstone" picking up a remote control devise and hooking it directly into his cyborg body. He uses the device to activate the two automatons and then uses them to take down Goliath and Hudson. (There's no other action in this act, so make this a big battle sequence ending in the defeat of our two heroes.)
ACT THREE
12. Oth/Bway, Des/Ang, Iago/Brook and a very confused Lex are about to come in for a landing at the seemingly quiet castle. Oth/Bway suggests splitting up to look for their enemy. Brooklyn agrees. Othello and Des can check the Great Hall, Lex and Brook will check the lab. As Oth/Bway and Des/Ang head off in one direction, we follow Lex and Brooklyn to the lab.
13. No one is in the lab, but there are clear signs of a struggle. Lex is pretty upset. He feels like he's coming out of a haze. A whole bunch of stuff makes no sense. Why wouldn't Goliath mention he had studied magic before now? Why were he and Hudson surprised to see Coldstone when they returned to the clocktower? And how can they even think about destroying Coldstone's body while Othello and Desdemona are still possessing Bway and Angela? Brooklyn thinks he has an answer. He slams Lex hard.
14. Othello/Bway and Des/Angela search the Great Hall. Des/Ang questions what they are going to do. Oth/Bway tries to make it sound like they have no choice. Iago must be destroyed, and the only way to do that is to destroy Coldstone. But, she protests, if they destroy Coldstone, they'll be trapped in Bway and Angela's bodies forever. Would that be so bad? he asks. After all they've been through, don't they deserve a real flesh and blood existence again? Des/Ang isn't saying yes. But she isn't saying no either.
15. Back in the lab with Lex and "Brooklyn". Lex is just regaining consciousness and he's pretty upset about being jumped and trussed up twice in one night. "Brooklyn" has Lex on the "table" where Coldstone was created. He's attaching electrodes to Lex (or some other high-tech deathtrap, that "Brooklyn" would never be blamed for). As he does this, he reveals to Lex and our audience that he is Iago. He likes Brooklyn's body and has no intention of surrendering it. Not to go back to the hellish Coldstone cyberscape, and certainly not to be bannished into nothingness. He doesn't know how Coldstone woke up again, but it's a marvelous opportunity. He and the gargoyles will destroy the Coldstone body and if by some "accident" Othello/Bway is also destroyed during the battle, then "Brooklyn" will have no choice but to console a grieving Desdemona/Angela. Eventually, he will use his position as Goliath's right hand to destroy Goliath as well and rule the clan. He thinks it's a pretty good plan, activates the deathtrap and leaves. Lex is in considerable pain, but just when it looks like curtains, a magical sparkle enters Lex via his mouth. Suddenly, Lex stops screaming, smiles and magically breaks free.
16. Oth/Bway and Des/Ang have found their way down to the Atrium beneath the castle. There they find Goliath and Hudson, trussed up. They go to help, but it's a trap. Coldstone attacks and he's winning. Iago/Brooklyn shows up and the tide starts to turn against Coldstone, but then Iago/Brook does something that allows Coldstone to get the drop on Oth/Bway. It's looking like Iago's plan is going to work, when Coldstone cybernetically summons Coldsteel and Goldfire, and uses them to trash Iago/Brook and Des/Ang respectively. Coldstone now has the upper hand and explains (while fighting) that Xanatos created these robots as a gift to Goliath. In payment for saving his son Alexander, Xanatos wanted to find a cure for Goliath's brother's multiple personality disorder. What no one counted on is that Coldstone had developed a personality of its own. Now Coldstone will use the robots to destroy all three of the former Coldstone personas so that they can't return to take the Coldstone body back. "Brooklyn" protests that he's not one of them, but Coldstone skoffs. Coldstone can sense that Brooklyn's body is possessed by Iago, and Coldstone is determined to destroy Iago. It looks like curtains for Iago, Othello, Desdemona (and thus Brooklyn, Broadway and Angela as well), when Lex swoops in and slams Coldstone back. While Coldstone is recovering, Lex (who never says a word) frees Hudson and Goliath. Now all our gargoyles (including Iago/Brooklyn) battle Coldstone and the robots. The good guys win.
After the smoke clears, Goliath and Hudson turn to face Iago/Brooklyn. (Lex is still strangely silent. And Oth/Bway and Des/Ang are too ashamed of their own desires to be too self-righteous towards Iago/Brook.) They want Iago to abandon Brooklyn's body. Iago/Brooklyn says fat chance. He's never returning to cyberspace, and he sure isn't going to voluntarily banish himself to nothingness. He does express some regret and wishes outloud that Xanatos' plan had worked out. The powerful Coldsteel robot body is clearly superior to the gargoyle teen-ager he now inhabits. Hearing this, Coldstone asks Iago/Brook if that is really what Iago wants? Why, yes. Can Coldstone transfer him? Coldstone says he can't, but Lexington can. Lexington steps forward. With a little prompting help from Coldstone (Puck) he recites the magical rhyme from Act One (the only words he's spoken in this scene) and transfers Iago out of Brooklyn and into Coldsteel. Brooklyn, the real Brooklyn, stands there very confused. But Coldsteel/Iago laughs at the fools who would give him such power. Goliath, Hudson and Coldstone move toward him, and clearly outnumbered, Iago/Coldsteel flees to fight another day.
Once Iago/Coldsteel is gone. Puck magically removes himself from the Coldstone body, leaving it empty and comatoast. Goliath wasn't expecting Puck, but in retrospect is hardly surprised. "Why all the subterfuge?" he asks. Well, in the first place, Puck lives for subterfuge. And in the second place it was necessary. Puck explains that what he had told them about Xanatos wanting to repay his debt to Goliath was true, though obviously the bit about Coldstone developing its own personality was a little elaboration, creatively added to convince Iago to voluntarily enter the Coldsteel robot. Magical soul transfers are tricky business and generally require the cooperation of the subject. Now if they're ready Othello and Des can be transferred as well. There's a moment of hesitation on their part. Will they trade flesh & blood lives for stone & metal casings. But they know they cannot steal Broadway and Angela's bodies permanently. Othello and Des share one last embrace. Lex again casts his spell (this time with more confidence) and after the transfer is completed, Broadway and Angela regain consciousness in mid-grope. There's a nice awkward moment that should help set up any future romance for these two. Coldstone/Othello and Goldfire/Des thank Bway and Ang for the use of their bodies. Goliath invites them back to the clock tower, but they feel they must pursue Coldsteel. He's still a threat and he's still their responsibility. But when that threat is ended, they will return. They depart. Our gargoyles turn to thank Puck for the magic he wrought and ask why he has been working through Lexington? Puck replies that although he set the ball rolling, this last magic wasn't his, and that this Lexington is not exactly who he appears to be. Magical sparks fly out of Lex's mouth and coalesce in Puck's arms to reveal baby Alex. Puck praises Alex for being a good student, and himself for being a good teacher. Alex smiles, yawns and falls asleep. Lex awakens to himself almost as confused as Brooklyn, Broadway and Angela. Goliath promises to explain and the group heads for home.
Suddenly, Puck pulls a giant watch from a very small pocket. "Look at the time," he cries. And vanishes.
17. Alex's room. Puck and Alex materialize. Puck puts Alex in his crib and transforms back into Owen just as Xanatos and Fox return home from the opera. Was Alex any problem, Fox asks. No, Owen replies. He's a very well-behaved and intelligent child. Owen turns to Xanatos and tells him that the Coldstone problem has been solved. A bit surprised, Xanatos thanks Owen. Owen demurs. "Don't thank me, sir. Thank your son." A bit confused, Xanatos looks into the crib where his son sleeps and smiles.
GENERAL NOTES FOR THE ABOVE:
Keep the talky scenes as brief as possible. Just get the point across. Give the most space to action sequences: the act one Coldstone vs. Xanatos fight in the Himalayas; the act two Goliath & Hudson vs. Coldsteel & Goldfire fight at the castle; the act three mega-battle in the Atrium.
Also, milk the transformation scenes. Particularly the act one scene where Puck/Goliath transfers the souls of Othello and Desdemona into the bodies of Broadway and Angela. And the act three scenes where Lex/Alex transfers Iago, Othello and Des into Coldsteel, Coldstone and Goldfire.
Don't forget that the names Othello, Desdemona and Iago are for our designation only. They should not appear in spoken dialogue at all.
Any script dealing with Coldstone, Puck and magical possession is bound to be confusing. Lots of people in other people's bodies. And a few illusions from Puck as well. Let's go out of our way to make it clear in the script both whose body we are seeing visually (and thus whose voice we are hearing), and who's mind is actually controlling that body (and voice). Remember, we're not trying to keep any secrets from the storyboard artists. However, we are trying to keep secrets from the audience, so don't hesitate to spell things out in description and then explicitly state that the audience shouldn't be able to figure this out yet.
Consistency is key. I think in order to best describe who's who, the best designation for dialogue headings and description may be to put the body's name first, followed by the possessor's name in parenthesis. As follows:
COLDSTONE (OTHELLO) - Coldstone with Othello's personality in control.
GOLIATH (PUCK) - Puck magically disguised as Goliath.
HUDSON (ALEXANDER) - Alexander magically disguised as Hudson.
BROADWAY (OTHELLO) - Othello in possession of Broadway's body.
ANGELA (DESDEMONA) - Desdemona in possesion of Angela's body.
BROOKLYN (IAGO) - Iago in possession of Brooklyn's body.
COLDSTONE (PUCK) - Puck in possesion of Coldstone's body.
LEXINGTON (ALEXANDER) - Alexander in possession of Lex's body.
COLDSTEEL (IAGO) - Iago in control of the Coldsteel robot.
GOLDFIRE (DESDEMONA) - Desdemona in control of the Goldfire robot.
THE THEME here is HONOR. Xanatos is trying to honor a debt he owes Goliath. Coldstone and Desdemona are torn between their desires and the honorable thing to do, the honorable sacrifice to make. Iago demonstrates no honor and is a negative example, but even Puck shows honor. He is trying to serve his master Xanatos without breaking any rules. He's very true to that code. Emphasize the theme as much as possible.
NOTES ON MOTIVATIONS:
XANATOS -- He's barely in this story, but his initial plan starts the whole ball rolling. Though he's in no particular hurry, he is -- in his own way -- actually trying to do a good deed for a change. He feels he owes Goliath for saving his son in "Gathering Part 2". He wants to return the favor by reuniting Goliath with his brother Coldstone. And he wants to help Coldstone out by creating new bodies for the Iago and Desdemona personalities, thus freeing Othello from his pseudo-schizoid condition. When we open, he's already had the Coldsteel and Goldfire robot bodies built. The inner workings are basic Steel Clan, but the robots have no artificial intelligence programming, which would allow the Iago and Desdemona personalities full control if Xanatos could figure out how to make the soul transfer.
PUCK/OWEN - He'd like to help Xanatos out, but is forbidden from using his magic that directly. So he's set up this elaborate "trick" in order to accomplish two things. One is getting Iago, Desdemona and Othello to voluntarily enter Coldsteel, Goldfire and Coldstone respectively. Two is training the infant Alexander in the art of "Soul Transfer and Exchanges". Both are necessary conditions to accomplishing his goal. So Puck demonstrates how Soul Transfers are done in Act One, but leaves it for Alex to do the magic in Act Three that would actually satisfy Xanatos' intentions.
IAGO - Initially, Iago wants to keep the Brooklyn body, if possible, without revealing that he's taken it. When Puck possesses Coldstone, Iago sees it as an opportunity. He's planted the seeds of dissatisfaction in Othello and Desdemona. He feels if they destroy Coldstone, they'd get to keep these new young bodies. And he's seducing them with both carrot and stick to make that choice. If he can kill Othello and/or Goliath in the process, all the better. He still lusts after Desdemona and wouldn't mind fooling her into "Brooklyn's" arms after Othello was out of the way.
It's important, however, to see Iago's goals change during the final battle. We need to demonstrate that he is frustrated by how much less powerful the Brooklyn body is when compared to the Coldsteel robot. We need to believe that he would willingly give up Brooklyn to live in a robot. (You might even try to hint that vanity played a part in his decision, at least subconsciously. After all, Coldsteel has been designed to look like Iago. That may impress him almost as much as the robot's power.)
OTHELLO & DESDEMONA - Are almost literally drunk with the sensation of being alive again in Broadway and Angela's bodies. Otherwise, they'd never consider what they in fact do briefly consider here, which is keeping bodies that don't belong to them. Ultimately, they realize how wrong that is and willingly give the gargoyle bodies up. Othello returns to Coldstone. Desdemona takes possession of Goldfire.
How did you conclude Coldstone, Coldfire and Coldsteel's storyline or was you never given the chance to do that because they only aired 66 episodes?
I haven't concluded it yet. But I will CONTINUE it in the new comic book series. Look for them to reappear within sooner than later.
In what epsiode did Coldstone first learn Hudson had taken a name? I ask this because at the beginning of the episode "Possessions" he called Hudson by name, and I don't remember any of the other episodes that Coldstone was in where he learned the other Gargoyles had a names, except of course Lexington.
You know I'd have to go back through EVERY Coldstone ep to answer this question. But I'd lay odds that no mistake was made.
Either Coldstone heard Hudson's name, or perhaps the Coldstone your referring to was actually someone else (like Puck) posing as Coldstone. Or Coldstone got the info in his memory banks form Demona and/or Macbeth in "High Noon".
I can't remember. And certainly it's possible a mistake was made. But I doubt it.
1.)did desdemona ever have romantic feelings for Iago the way he does for her?
2.)Did Desdemona ever have romantic feelings for Goliath?
1. No.
2. No.
Happy New Year!!
1)Where did Demona get the disk to reactivate Coldstone during the events of High Noon?
2)When Coldstone was restored, was the Xanatos program put back into the body?
1. I don't know that the assumptions of your question are correct. Frankly, it's just been too long. I don't recall.
2. No.
1. you've said before that its the leader of the Clan that usually decides to banish a gargoyle in the Clan and for how long. so, did Goliath give the order to banish Iago? or was Hudson still in command at this point?
2. did the majority of the Wyvern Clan agree that Iago should be banished for a year?
3. where did Iago go during his banishment? did he find another temporary clan or did he just play rouge gargoyle for a year?
1. Iago was banished by Goliath in 993 for one year.
2. I didn't hear a lot of objections.
3. "Rouge Gargoyle". Hmmm.... Yes. He joined a Gentleman's Club and... Oh. Wait. You meant "Rogue Gargoyle" didn't you. That's very different. Never mind.
How similar are coyote 1.0 and the program Xanitos put on Coldstone to monitor his personalities as they both seemed to be based on Xanitos but were either an AI?Did they know of each other?
I'm sure they had similarities. Neither were full-fledged Artificial Intelligences. Did they know of each other? Uh... I don't know. Never thought about it. Does it matter?
Hi Greg! I've been skimming through these questions about the Coldtrio and a preqeul called "The Dark Ages" comes up quite a few times. And I was wondering....since it was never made to be a TV show do you think it'll ever be made into a DVD or video? I think you and your co-workers would get a TON of money from old gargoyle fans if you did. I mean you could introduce new gargoyles and focus more on the totally awesome Coltrio!!! Just a thought, please at least THINK about it....! thanks!
I have thought about it. A lot. But I have, so far, had no success in convincing Disney. Still trying though. I haven't given up. But if you want to PROVE to Disney that there's money to be made on Gargoyles, try buying the DVD.
you said that desedemona,othello,iago were not their real names just names in the credits later they were introduced as coldfire,coldestone,and coldsteel, you also said they would later retutn to join golith and the rest of the clan would they keep the names coldstone,coldfire,etc. or would they choose others?
For the sake of simplicity, after "Possessions" we would have stuck with the Coldstone, Coldfire and Coldsteel names. (Unless of course, we were depicting a flashback.)
Is Gabriel Coldstones son? If so then does that make his love his mother?
Yes, Gabriel is the biological son of Coldstone and Coldfire. But from a gargoyle's point of view, Goliath is as much Gabriel's father as Coldstone is.
OK, this page is a great idea, and I'm glad I finally found it.
I've been trying to work out how GOliath's loincloth is tied. All the others (except Hudson,who has trousers) have their loincloths just over front & back, nothing going underneath to keep things secure. ANd I just can't make a single piece of cloth fold around the way Goliath's seems to be. I'm sure it has be only one piece, because that's the way Scots did most of their clothes.
I'm going to have to spend a lot more time on this place and see if anyone else has come up with my theory on gargoyle sex etc, based largely on what they wear, or rather how. ANd figure out who all those characters are in the age list, I've seen all the episodes now but half of them I can't recall hearing of. What Othello & whatshername in Legion? COldstone's mate doesn't have a name, they're characters in something of Shakespeare.
There is, of course, a part of the loincloth that goes "underneath". Trust me, Goliath et al are not just out there blowing in the wind. It is still one piece, it just folds over the belt with space cut out for the tail in back.
Othello is the name we use to refer to Coldstone before he became Coldstone. The actual character doesn't have a name. It's just a reference.
Desdemona is the name we use to refer to Coldfire before she became Coldfire. The actual character doesn't have a name. It's just a reference, though we did use the Desdemona name in the credits for actress C.C.H. Pounder.
Iago is the name we use to refer to Coldsteel before he became Coldsteel. The actual character doesn't have a name. It's just a reference, though we did use the Iago name in the credits for actor Xander Berkeley.
What's up with Desdemona's (Colfire's) wings, how come no other gargoyles have wings like her's.
There is wing variation across the Gargoyle bio-community. You just haven't seen many gargoyles (not many are still alive, frankly) to know that she is not completely unique in this wing shape.
I just wanted to say that most my favorite characters on Gargoyles are Othello(Coldstone), Desdemona (Coldfire), and Iago (Coldsteel). And my question is this: Will you make more episodes or write more comics/books with them in it (preferably only about them)?
I have more stories to tell about them. Just need the forum.
Do Lexington and Iago have mates?
Not as of 1996.
1. In the episode "Grief", was that Egyptian city and everyone in it just simply destroyed by the Jackal Avatar? As in: dead, and never ever coming back?
2. If #1 is correct, why couldn't the Emir Avatar return life to the city's population (not to mention those crocodiles and trees) since they were brought to death as untimely as the Emir's son returning to life would have been? Why weren't those lives considered "stolen energies" as well?
3. If #1 is correct, don't you agree that it was quite an unusual move for the show to have so many people die, and then not worry about the repercussions that it usually spends a whole lot of focus on with smaller incidents (something that made the show really great)? Did you have these concerns when working on the episode?
4. If #1 is correct, did S&P have any problems with it?
5. Was that a real city? Does/Did it have a name?
6. Dose Jackal, in his normal state, still harbor ambitions of bringing the gift of death to the world, or dose he keep his feelings under some control until he becomes super natural or dons the Eye of Odin?
7. How does Hyena feel about her bro's ambitions, would she be just as malicious if given the chance.
8. I was wondering if the Sphinx actually has that ritual chamber and mastaba as shown in the show? And was that door with the secret hieroglyphics just something Xanatos Enterprises cooked up that looks cool and also keeps out intruders, or was that meant to be ancient Egyptian tech?
9. This question is a bit differn't, but I'll ask none the less. How do you think Anubis felt about Iago, Desdemona and all Othello being brought back from the dead? Did it cause a big disruption to him, the spirit world and the space-time continuum?
1. That's my thinking.
2. What's dead and gone cannot be recovered. Or something like that. (He has a great quote in the episode on this very subject.)
3. A bit. But we also wanted to hint at the devastation -- and still get away with it on an S&P basis. Had we explored the repercussions, it would have drawn too much attention to what we had done and we would not have been allowed to do it. We felt it was more important to do it and not explore as opposed to not being able to do it at all. I still have hopes to explore those repercussions somewhere, someday.
4. Not with the way we did it. See above.
5. It's more of a town than a city, but no it didn't have a name.
6. Jackal is a sociopath, i.e. he knows how to control his impulses to function in society. But given the right opportunity, he's clearly capable of anything.
7. Hyena is a psychopath, who needs her brother to control her impulses. You can decide for yourself which one is more dangerous.
8. Meant to be ancient Egyptian tech. But I've never been to Egypt, so next time you go, you can check out for yourself whether or not it's really there.
9. Anubis strikes me as a guy who has intentionally divorced himself from passion. Ghosts exist. That's not what the Emir was asking for. The ColdTrio are ghosts in various shells.
1.Would you consider the golem to be an AI since it is artificial?
2.If you could rank the AIs of the Gargoyles Universe from most advanced to least advanced where does the Golem fit?
1. Uh, I suppose... but certainly not in the sense that the term is generally used.
2. I'm not sure we yet have any true AI's aside from Matrix.
Does even Coyote 4.0 qualify? He's certainly sophisticated by robotic standards, but is he truly artificially intelligent?
Would you categorize Coldfire & Coldsteel as A.I.'s when it is the sorcerous possession of gargoyle souls that engenders their intelligence?
Am I missing anyone?
So far all I've got is Matrix, who, yes, is more advanced than Golem, if you even want to put Golem on that scale, which I don't.
I have seen on some sites Coldstones girlfriend being refered to as Desdemona just wondering if that is offically what she is called or just a name someone tagged her with and if it is offical what is the thought behinded is it in reference to Orthelo??
The Desdemona and Iago names were used in our scripts to identify the characters before they got their Coldfire and Coldsteel names in "Possession". The name Othello was also used in the script to refer to Coldsteel in flashback scenes, before he became a cyborg.
None of these names were ever used in dialogue on the series. But both Desdemona and Iago were used in the credits to identify the actors (C.C.H. Pounder and Xander Berkeley) who voiced the two characters. (Othello was never used, because we simply listed Michael Dorn as Coldstone.)
So obviously, yes, we saw the relationship between the three characters as being very "OTHELLO". Particularly in their first appearance, "Legion". With Goliath in the Michael Cassio role.
If Gargoyles had continued, how would you have developed the Angela-Demona relationship?
Would they ever find a medium? Or be at least friends?
Since the last time Coldfire talk to to Demona was back in 994, what does she think of Demona's new way of life in 1996?
How close were Demona and Coldfire back in the "Dark Ages"?
1. Carefully.
2. I think Michael Reaves came up with a Medium that we never used. I can't remember her name though at the moment.
3. I'm not going to reveal the long-term result of their interaction.
4. Well, at the moment, I doubt she's aware of it. But assuming she found out, I think she'd be very disturbed.
5. Close as sisters who aren't actually as close as they think.
I just thought of something after the last post. As of 1996…
1a) Could Goliath read/write Latin? b) Ancient Celtic? (At the end of Light House on the Sea of Time he said we would read the Scrolls of Merlin to Broadway and Hudson, and they were written in ancient Celtic if memory serves)
2a) Could Lexington read/write Latin? b) Ancient Celtic?
3a) Could Brooklyn read/write Latin? b) Ancient Celtic?
4a) Could Demona read/write Latin? b) Ancient Celtic?
5a) Could Angela read/write Latin? b) Ancient Celtic?
6a) Could Coldstone (Othello) read/write English? b) Latin? c) Ancient Celtic?
7a) Could Desdemona (Coldfire) read/write English? b) Latin? c) Ancient Celtic?
8a) Could Iago (Coldsteel) read/write English? b) Latin? c) Ancient Celtic?
9a) Can the Avalon clan read/write English? b) Latin? c) Ancient Celtic?
10) and I'm guessing Broadway, Hudson and Bronx could not read/write Latin or ancient Celtic. Am I right?
(Sorry, I know you don't like laundry list, I tried to sent it up so it wouldn't really be that way.)
1a. Yes.
1b. Yes.
2a. Yes.
2b. Not sure.
3a. A bit.
3b. I don't think so.
4a. Yes.
4b. Yes.
5a. Yes.
5b. Probably.
6a. Yes.
6b. Maybe a little.
6c. Ditto.
7a. Yes.
7b. Perhaps.
7c. Probably.
8a. Yes.
8b. Probably.
8c. Probably.
9a. Potentially.
9b. Yes.
9c. Probably.
10. You are correct.
1.Is the Coldtrio(Coldstone, Coldfire and Coldsteel) around in 2198?
2.If so, are they apart of the Manhattan Clan or the New Wyvern Clan?
3.Did you ever plan for them to return to their flesh-n-bone forms? By magic or otherwise?
1. Not saying.
2. Not saying.
3. No.
Coldtrio
Are the Coldtrio still around in 2198?
NS.
You might have answered this before, but I couldn't find it.
1) Did Goliath and Demona have any children in the 978 (Bronx's) rookery?
2) Did Othelle and Desdemona have any children in the 978 (Bronx's) rookery?
3) Did Hyppolytahave any children in the 978 (Bronx's) rookery?
1. No. They were too young.
2. No. They were too young.
3. No. She was two young.
From what source of water did Goliath and co. arrive in Tiber?
Were there any other guest characters there besides Coldstone?
How did Coldstone get from New York to Tibet? Did he fly there? If so how did he maintain his supply of rocket fuel?
Tibet, not Tiber. Two very different places.
1. I'm not telling.
2. Yes, technically.
3. He got there, mostly by flight. But let me ask you... how do you know he even uses rocket fuel?
when Puck transforms the human population to gargs why is it that Elisa and the three teen girl gargs in the subway not have brow ridges or horns of any kind? every other gargoyle we've seen except for the English gargs had either horns or brow ridges or both, but these transformed humans had neither. in fact, besides the pointed ears and color difference (which Elisa didn't even have) their bodies from the neck up looked very human, not gargoyle. was it cuz you wanted these characters to be physically attractive to human viewers even as gargs? cuz i think physically Desdemona is more attractive than Demona or Angela and Des has big old horns, so why make these characters as gargs so human looking?
would you have objected to the animators giving Elisa a beak or a frill or any of the other non human features of gargs?
Yes, I would have objected to Elisa getting a beak, because she wouldn't have looked viserally like Elisa. Other changes that were less significant would not have bothered me.
However, I loved the design they came up with and didn't question it.
As for the girls in the subway. MINOR, minor characters. There wasn't as much time to do all this stuff as you seem to think. We just had to get it done.
Don't read too much into it though. We all think that Desdemona is attractive. Frank in particular likes drawing attractive females. I think Demona and Angela and Elisa are pretty hot too. Among other characters.
Greg,
I recently re-watched "Legion" and it sparked some questions in my mind about "Reawakening."
1) Was Coldstone suffering from multiple-personality problems when he first awoke, or did that not start until "Legion" with the Xanatos program or the virus?
2) Was Othello the only one in control through "Reawakening"? He is confused, but only generally. He doesn't forget moment by moment where he is and what he's doing. Also, Desdemona's reaction to the mirror made it seem as though she was "awakening" for the first time in "Legion."
Thanks
1. He was not, initially, no.
2. Correct. Just Othello in Coldstone's first appearance.
I now have a list of questions to for you about love. ahhh
1. Does Hyena love Jackel?
2. Does Jackel love Hyena?
3. How serius are Hyena's feelings to Cyotie? Is she madley im love with him, or just mildly attracted? Either way, it's kinda gross
4. How does Cyotie feel toward Hyena? He seemed up for they idea of "making sparks fly".
5. Does Fox love Anistasia(before and after the Gathering)?
6. Does Halcyen still carry a torch for Anistasia? And does he now know that she is Titania?
7. Does Titania love fox?
8. Does Puck love Alex?
9. Does Oberon love anyone besides Titania?
10. Does Dracon dream about Elisa and him being together?
11. Was Brooklyn attracted to Demona before "Temptation". He seems to go after the most females.
12. Does Iago feel in love with Desdemona, or is it a strong sexual attraction, or is it just to hurt Othello?
13. Was there a time when Desdemona had feelings toward Iago?
14. Does Vinnie have a special someone (besides himself), or does everyone think he is too wierd?
15. Has Thailog ever felt love, even in the slightest way?
16. Was Malcolm and Elaina's wedding more out of love, or convenience?
17. Do Banquo and Florence have a thing for each other?
18. Does Cagney have a special kitty friend, or just Elisa?
19. Has the Magus been yerning for Kathern all of his life, and never told her how he felt? If yes., thats pretty sad.
20. And, somewhere deep deep down, both Goliath and Demona both yern to again be one, now and forever. Right? I better be. And this would have been shown in latter episodes besides dark ages right?
I'm sure you can see from my questions that I am QUITE the softy. And I love how Gargoyles uses this topic so often. Great job!!!
Twenty Questions! YAY! :P
1. Sure, to the extent she knows how.
2. Ditto.
3. Something between madly in love and mildly attracted.
4. He's indifferent in the incarnations you've seen.
5. Yes.
6. Yes and Yes.
7. Of course.
8. Sure.
9. Yes. His children and his Children and the island of his birth and all the funny little mortals. He's a benificent one, that Oberon.
10. Probably.
11. I think Brooklyn respected Goliath too much to think that way, to allow himself to think that way.
12. The first two. The third is just a side benefit.
13. No.
14. He is currently available? You interested?
15. He's not admitting to it, unless he's lying.
16. Politics. And a hope of love.
17. They're exes.
18. That avenue has not yet been explored.
19. Not all his life. After all, he's ten years older than she is. But yes, it is sad.
20. I think somewhere deep, deep down Goliath wants to be with Elisa. And somewhere deep deep down, Demona wants to be with someone who is right for her.
Hi. I have a question regarding Coldstone.
Okay, you said that gargoyles mate for life. I assume that since mating for life is the norm among most clans (or at least the norm in the Wyvern Clan), a certain level of monogamy and faithfulness is expected on the part of the members of each mated pair. For example, Goliath still had the desire to remain faithful and in love with Demona as late as 'Vows'. He wanted these things even after all the rotten stuff she's done and you stated before that as a gargoyle, it, in a certain sense, "blew Goliath's mind" that his mate could still be alive and he would not be with her. Also, you made it clear that Hudson, even though his mate is long dead, would not pursue a new love out of lingering love and respect for his dead mate.
So, the question is- 1.) If monogamy and faithfulness are expected and natural to the gargoyle race (and/or the Wyvern Clan), what was Coldstone so worried about regarding Desdemona? I understand that Iago was manipulating Coldstone's thinking, but it still doesn't add up to me that Coldstone would be so worried about her being unfaithful that it would alter his personality. What's more, it's hard for me to figure that he would even (momentarily in 'Legion') consider letting her and Goliath fall to their deaths because of it. Isn't it sort of an irrational fear on his part?
Also 2.) Was Desdemona at all offended by Coldstone's accusation? I don't know, but if betraying my mate meant that I was both violating the Gargoyle Way of Life and the sanctity of … umm… "Mate-hood", I would be pretty darned upset if the man I loved accused me of doing that (especially if that fear was unfounded). After all, in effect, he wasn't only questioning her loyalty to him, but also her faithfulness to the gargoyle way of life.
Finally, 3.) Was Iago trying to manipulate Coldstone before the Wyvern Massacre? That is, were Coldstone and Desdemona having their "issues" in the Dark Ages too, or was Coldstone only uncertain of her faithfulness once they were revived in cyber space? It seems to me that these problems started before the massacre though, but I figured I'd ask to be sure.
Thanks for offering your time.
1. Have you read the play Othello? Great men (and gargoyles) have flaws and are subject to manipulation. "Legion" the episode is a bit of a cheat, because we don't get to see Coldsteel/Iago at work really. That's "Dark Ages" material. We don't see all that he did to convince Coldstone/Othello that Coldfire/Desdemona was cheating on him with Goliath/Cassio. All we see in "Legion" is the confused memories resurfacing under terrible strain and under the pressure of the virus.
2. Yes, I think she was upset. And if they weren't mates for life, it might have been a devastating blow to their 'marriage'. But eventually she forgave him.
3. Yes, this stuff ALL took place in 993.
I gathered from the wierd sister's solilique (they can almost be counted as one entity) at the end of High Noon, that they were hoping to recrute coldstone as one of their soldiers as well, but things didn't turn out their way. If this is so, why did they convince Othello to take control of Coldstone's body, when Iago was working with Demona and Macbeth. I don't know how easily they could of gotten Iago under their spell, but he seemed more likley then Othello. Am I way off here?
They were NOT trying to recruit Coldstone. And I wouldn't call it a soliloquy.
Does Coldstone remember the events that happened in "Reawakening"? I'm asking cause of how he didn't trust Goliath once again, when Goliath entered the cyber world, but then Iago recognised Demona by her name in High Noon (when he first woke, he called he "sister" but, from his POV, some words said Recongnise: Demona). Was Othello the Only one who was controling Coldstone in Reawakening? Were Iago and or Desdemona influencing his desisions at that time, or were they even consious to thoes events?
Ok, could you just tell the Coldstone story from reawakening to high noon, filling in the details I'm not sure about?
I hope you followed all that %
I don't think I did.
But...
Othello was basically in control through most of Reawakening. But he was badly damaged, and Iago reasserted control during the repair process. Confused and with all those voices driving him nuts, Othello reverted to being jealous of Goliath.
Does that help?
Did Demona and Iago get along in the Dark Ages?
Sometimes. It was a long age.
Gargoyles mate for life. Does that mean that once two gargoyles show interest in each other, and become intimate, that they've mated, and are officially forevermore monogamous?
If so, what happens if, over the years, the two gargoyles come to drift apart, or realize they have nothing in common? Do they stay together simply because of tradition? I take it there's no gargoyle equivalent of divorce. (Or at least there wasn't until Goliath and Demona kinda set precident).
And in that vein; should a gargoyle have an affair, then what happens if that affair is discovered? Does the unfaithful gargoyle and the one he/she had the affair with get banished from the clan?
Hope this hasn't been asked before.
Gargoyles mate in both sexual and ritualistic fashion. After that they GENERALLY (and that's the key word) remain monogamous.
They imprint upon each other biologically, and there are strong ties of custom to discourage a split. Affairs, I believe, are quite rare.
But as you noted, sometimes things don't work according to plan. Iago has clearly imprinted on Desdemona, though she is imprinted on Othello and he has imprinted on her.
Goliath and Demona imprinted upon each other, but maybe as a result of a thousand years, that imprinting didn't last. Goliath has clearly imprinted anew on Elisa. (BTW, I'm not sure I'm using the word imprinting correctly. I know it's generally used for babies to imprint on their mothers. But it's the closest thing I can think of.)
So there are issues of both biology and custom that discourage anything like divorce or cheating. But that doesn't mean it NEVER happens.
How did Xanatos know what Iago and Desdemona looked like when he desined their robots?
I could have sworn I've answered this. He accessed Coldstone's memory banks.
Question about Othello. I just read your comments on "Legion" and your particluar comment ("Poor slob never stood a chance") made think about him, and, basically, I agree with you; he just always seemed so helpless throughout the series, except in his last appearnace though, when he seemed assured of himself that he and Desdemona had to stop Iago.
Before the massacre, was he always this vulnerable mentally? I figure if he was, then that's why Iago chose to play on his trust and mind. If not, then Iago wa a damn-good manipulator.
Both.
Iago was good. Othello was vulnerable. But he's not a bad guy or even a stupid one. He's just flawed.
A few questions, now, about "Gargoyles 2198":
1. I've noticed a few parallel elements in it with "Future Tense", as follows:
Demona joining forces with the resistance movement.
The LXMs serving as a parallel to "Cyber-Lex".
Coyote-X as a parallel to the Xanatos Program (artificial intelligences out to conquer the world, both derived ultimately from Xanatos - although I doubt that Coyote-X has any direct connection to Xanatos, he did originate the Coyote line of robots).
Were these three elements intended as parallels to "Future Tense", a la the destruction of the clock tower in the original series?
2. What sort of occupation do you imagine the Space-Spawn making on Earth? A really tyrannical regime of the sort where Earth's population is reduced to slave labor, or a more remote occupation where they pretty much let the Earthlings go on with their lives, though now as subjects of the Space-Spawn Empire?
3. How is it that Coyote-X is out to conquer, first the planet, then the galaxy? I will confess that I have something of a problem with the notion of a robot or artificial intelligence out to conquer the world; such a goal strikes me as more fitted to an "organic being" with such emotions as greed, ambition, arrogance, etc., than to an artificial intelligence, which I simply can't imagine developing emotions (truth to tell, my own thoughts on machines are pretty much the same as those of Goliath in "Outfoxed" - machines know only what they are programmed to know; it's living beings, such as humans and gargoyles, who are capable of making decisions, and choosing between the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do). I didn't have any problems with the Matrix undertaking this route in "Walkabout" since it was portrayed here as merely a logical extension of its programming (to bring about order to the terrain of the world; it was merely misinterpreting its mission) rather than being motivated by power-lust. However, I'm not certain as to how Coyote-X developed its goal. (Of course, artificial intelligences could have come a long way by 2198, and maybe by that time they have developed emotions and the weaknesses and failings of living beings like humans and gargoyles). Of course, I doubt that you want to fill us in on the details yet, but I just thought that I'd mention it.
1. Yes and no. I love playing with the Future Tense expectaions. But on another level, it's just the characters telling me what they want. I know what Lex does in the late nineties early "oughts". I know what that leads to in turn. I know Demona well enough to know that she's sure not gonna like the Space-Spawn after they steal all the Gargoyle Eggs. And I know what happens to Coyote and how he's going to evolve and upgrade. So maybe Puck was being a bit prophetic. After all, the characters are deciding things for themselves. And he wasn't half wrong.
2. In the immortal words of Abe Simpson, "A little from column A and a little from column B."
3. Well, artificial intelligence has come a long way by 2198. Thanks in no small part to Coyote, Coldsteel, Lexington, Matrix, Fox and Anastasia. (An odd group. But there you go.)
Hi,
I just wanted to make a comment:
I think it was very creative and cool to make the cold trio's drama be closley paralleled to Shakespear's OTHELLO. Except for the few inconsistantsies (i.e. Othello-Colstone not being a commander like Othello, Goliath taking on Cassio's role, and the absence of a Rodrigo, and the whole bit with Othello's tissue) I thought evrything was played-out well and done correctly; Iago-coldsteele wasn't as "Machiavellian" as was Iago in the play, but he still had that same pure-evil aura, and Desdemona-Coldfire isn't as naive as Desdemona in the play. It would be neat just see the play done by the characters of the show.
Anyways just thought I'd say that since OTHELLO is one of my favorite plays and plot-lines (almost ranked next to HAMLET and MADAEM BOVARY in my book).
Oops, I lied, I do have a quesiton, nothing too difficult, though: What kind of music would you say the Manhatten clan would listen to? That just popped in my head; I don't know why :).
I don't know. Carl Johnson stuff mostly.
I'd love to use the Gargoyles characters to perform a whole variety of Shakespeare Plays. Othello's obvious. (Can you see Vinnie as Rodrigo?)
I might be mistaken on this, but as I recall in "Reawakening" didn't Demona say she something to the effect of she had tried everything (sorcery and science) to bring him (Coldstone) back to life? So, does that mean that she was carrying around what was left of Coldstone's body (and Desdemona and Iago's bodies also) around with her all over the world for the thousand years before "The Awakening"?
You're mistaken. So, no.
Why is it that after Iago was sucked into the "vortex" he was not destroyed by the virus? Are souls just not as easy to get rid of as xanatos program? And why did he not have "the power" to come between Othello and Des? Does that just mean he couldn't fool Othello anymore?
You answered your own questions.
All right, some more since it doesn't look like my others will be awnsered for a while.
How did Xanatos know to look for Coldstone in the Himalayas?
He built Coldstone's cybernetic parts. He has a means of tracking them.
How would you compare Desdemona's love towards Othello, to shakespear's sonnet # 116, Let Me Not the Marriage of true Minds
I'm sorry, but I don't have my copy of the sonnets with me -- and I don't have them memorized.
You feel like typing it out?
do you think it is possible and likely that Goliath and Iago are close relatives biologically, like cousins perhaps? they just seem pretty similar compared to most gargs... the black hair, the purple wings, etc.
i'm sorry, i know how you hate questions about bilogical garg relatives... but i had to know!
I'm glad you put that in the past tense.
Otherwise I'd be worried that this response would upset you.
Hey yo....gotta tell ya' that Gargoyles is my favortie toon or all time. Just one thing that always bugged me about the Awakening series, is that the first half hour seemed cut around Goliath's brothers and sisters. For some reason those first to nameless Gargoyles (especially the one with the bull horns) and all of the others you barely got a peek at always intrigued me....who were they?, what were they like?....if there's any names or info on these mysterious characters of Goliath's fallen clan, please let me know..
Thanks
p.s....If Coldstone was made up of pieces of other Gargoyles....wouldn't he have some womenly feartures too?...j/k
He does. Have you seen his inner thigh. Whoah!!!
Anyway, yes, I have some notions about Goliath's rookery siblings. We've met three. And I've given a great deal of thought to Hyppolyta, a fourth.
Again, given enough time and episodes we'd have met them all.
That's what the Dark Ages prequel spin-off was for.
well Todd, if you are not going to ask it, i guess i will...
in "Legion" when Coldstone first arrives at the Clocktower, Bronx is growling. Iago hasn't come to the surface yet, so is Bronx growling cuz he has something against Coldstone or robots/cyborgs, or does he sense the evil one inside Coldstone or what?
I guess the latter. I'd have to look at it again.
since Angela has had an interest in gargoyle parentage and has a close relationship with Gabriel has see perhaps guessed that Gabriel's parents are Othello and Desdemona? she had to know that they had a child on Avalon, did she think through the next step and guess at that child?
Probably.
you said that Iago decieved Othello and Desdemona in 993 and that he was banished after that, but he came out of his banishment in 994, in time for the massacre. is all that right?
why was it such a short banishment?
how do gargoyles decide on how long to banish a clan member?
does the whole clan decide the banishment time/punishment or just the leader?
was Goliath in effect banishing the trio but only lightly when he sent them to the rookery or was that a common punishment for young gargs?
That's basically right.
The banishment was for a year, which isn't that short considering he didn't kill anyone. He was just causing trouble. (Whispering in Othello's ear, causing Othello to act like a jerk isn't that big a crime, I guess.) Also, Iago may have done something to get back in everyone's good graces. At least begrudgingly.
The leader makes the final decision.
He wasn't literally banishing them. Sort of telling them to sit in the corner. It was not an uncommon punishment. But it was mostly done just to temporarily difuse things while he was gone for what he assumed would be a short errand.
A few questions on "Legend" mainly some technical quarks, I noticed:
1. Who had the idea for designing the animation for the inside circuitry of Coldstone? I know its just a cartoon, but those gates that were opening and closing with electricity when Coldstone was repairing himself, I guess were supposed to be transistors, but looked nothing like them.
2. Who also, had the idea for the computer virus? Not exactly the way I'd see a virus, maybe in a biological sense. Nevertheless I guess it's how it's perceived by the person in contact with it, mainly Goliath, Coldstone, etc.
3. What caused Coldstone to go after the government-related data? It seemed as if the programming were controlling his actions, not one of the three souls trapped within him. He looked as if he were moving on impulse giving me the impression that someone else (maybe Xanatos) was controlling him remotely.
4. Even if one of the three souls (probably the hated one) was controlling him, what purpose would it want with government-related data on weapons systems? (That being if Coldstone was not being controlled remotely by someone else.)
5. How do the police boats coming after Matt B.'s VR device not notice the gargoyles? Surely someone would have noticed something seeing how they were in the middle of the bay, and the only means of escape for the gargs would be to liftoff.
6. At the end, Xanatos is sitting in front of his computer looking at what I guess is the virus running on it. If the virus were the most potentially-dangerous computer virus created thus far, why did it not destroy any of the files on his computer? Or did it?
I assume you're talking about "Legion". We didn't have an episode called "Legend". At least not in the first 66.
1. Don't remember.
2. That would have been, me and/or the story editors and/or the writers.
3. Xanatos' programming. Some of which was broadcasted.
4. See above.
5. Uh, fog?
6. Safeguards? Maybe it was running on an isolated system.
How fast can Coldstone fly? Presumably with that built-in rocket he can fly faster than a "live" Gargoyle....
For that matter, how fast can an average Gargoyle glide?
I'm not good with numbers, but yes, Coldstone can fly faster than an average garg.
since "Reawakening", "Legion", "High Noon", and "Possesions" all ended with Coldstone getting screwed in one way or another, would the unmade World Tour Coldstone/Himalayas episode have ended as sadly for poor Coldstone?
Bittersweet. As our Frankenstein stand-in he was a bit of a bittersweet character in design. But eventually he would have rejoined the Manhattan Clan with Coldfire and gotten a measure of peace.
just watched "Possesions", one of my favirote eps by the way, anyway, i thought of a few questions...
1. ok, is it me, or does Lex hate Coldstone? the whole clan doesn't like Iago, but Lexington seems to hate Coldstone in general... in "Legion" he trys to convince Goliath not to invite Coldstone into the clan, or back to the clocktower and that was before they knew about the other souls in Coldstone, in "High Noon" he warns Goliath about freeing Coldstone, this time his concern was justified, but in "Possesions" Lex really seems to hate Coldstone, when Coldstone first arrives Lex screams his astonishment at Coldstone being brought to the clocktower by "Goliath" and "Hudson", then he seems to be the most skeptical about "Goliath's" plan, and then he is the only one not to volunteer for the soul transference. so, am i right? does Lex have a major problem with Coldstone? is it jealousy, i mean, does Lex wish he was as integrated with technology as Coldstone is? "Future Tense" comes to mind...
2. why does Puck keep trying to make Xanatos look evil to the gargs? in "Future Tense" his illusion of Xanatos is pretty nasty, and in "Possesions" Puck goes on about how Xanatos is about to unleash new robots and he is not sincere about oweing Goliath for helping to save his son, obviously Puck doesn't believe these things, but why try to make the gargs believe it?
3. any reason that Iago/Coldsteel didn't have a tail (either in cyberspace or as a robot) in "Possesions", but did have one in "Legion" and "High Noon"?
sorry for the lengthy questions...
1. No. I don't think so. I just think he's very aware of Coldstone's potential danger to the clan.
2. He's simply playing to Goliath's weaknesses.
3. I never noticed that. Are you sure?
in "Reawakening" we suddenly see Coldstone in Times Square. did Xanatos and Demona send him there to get Goliath's attention? or did Coldstone end up there himself? or what?
They sent him out.
<i>You said that the yeti would be seen in Gargoyles for sure. Is it an animal elated to the gargoyles or a gargoyle.
--------------------------------------Greg answered---------------
That story is actually written. It was written for Marvel's Gargoyle comic book before it was cancelled.</i>
Would Coldstone have been involved with this story?
Yes.
Coldstone is reanimated gargoyle in stone form, right? thats why he is gray and not blue as Othello is. if this is so, why is Coldstone's hair white and not gray stone?
Good question. Artistic license. Or it's a VERY LIGHT GRAY. Or the science blasted it white Or...
Well, you get the idea. Take your pick.
Ohp, here I go again... Why does Iago/Coldsteel hate Goliath so much. Jealousy, and or something else?
He doesn't actually. I mean, he doesn't like particularly, but most of his ire is reserved for Othello/Coldstone. Goliath was never anything more than a convenient pawn.
you've said before that unless their bodies are destroyed that the Coldtrio will live forever, so will any or all of them be around in 2198?
Not saying.
i just want you to confirm that Gabriel is definetly Othello and Desdemona's biological child, cuz lately there has been talk of Iago having a child on Avalon and Gabriel has some features, the large brow ridges and the small horns on his chin, that we've only see in one other gargoyle, Iago. so, if Iago has a biological child on Avalon, its not Gabriel, right?
Gabriel is Othello and Desdemona's biological child.
You heard it here first.
About four years ago.
Timeline questions:
1.What year did Iago decieve Othello about Desdemona and Goliath?
2.When were Luach, Canmore and Gillecomgain born?
3.For that matter have you decided what's the exact date of Elisa's birth?
All dates are tentative, at least until I finish my current reworking of the Timeline. But this is as up-to-date as I have it. (You caught me in the right office today.)
2. Gillecomgain was born in 982.
1. Iago deceived Othello in 993.
2. Canmore was born in 1031.
2. Luach was born in 1033.
3. Elisa was born in 1968. I haven't given her a specific birthdate at this time.
By the way, if anyone sees a reason why these dates (or any others I might post) don't make sense, don't hesitate to let me know.
Not that you would.
I asked
"3. For that matter would Iago be considered a rookery father to the eggs simply because of his generation, even though he was mateless and hadn't contributed an egg himself? Or not?"
You replied (among other things: "3. First off, did I ever say Iago was mateless?"
The answer is yes - Todd had asked you a number of months back:
"Did Iago ever have a mate in the 10th century?"
and you had replied:
"No. Or at any rate, not that I know of right now."
Ah, but that's very different from a flat-out "no", isn't it?
does Iago have a biological child on Avalon?
if so, who was his mate and what did she think of Desdemona and that whole situation?
I'm not commenting at this time.
Was the name Demona derived more from it's relationship to the word demon or or from the name Desdemona in Shakespeare's Othello (or was it a mix). Basically, which came first to the idea board. (I think I'm open for a smart-ass response as well as a real one.)
I don't have a smart ass response to this. Demona came from Demon. Desdemona (and the obvious aural connection to Demona) was a pleasant "surprise" that came later when we were working on Coldstone. Now if you're asking whether or not, somewhere in the back of my head, the Desdemona name was floating around and had an influence... well, I can't be sure.
Is there any particular reason Desdemona divided herself into three versions of herself (one with black hair, blond, and white) in "High Noon"... I just thought there might be relation between this and the fact the weird sisters were in the episode manipulatining MacBeth and Demona.
Des didn't do it. She opened herself up to possession and the Weird Sisters did it.
Following fast on the heels of City of Stone, here's my ramble on High Noon...
The recap is interesting here. It's all Coldstone oriented. Demona, Macbeth and the Weird Sisters aren't mentioned. Nothing from City of Stone, despite this being a direct sequel to those events. The reason is that the recaps got early criticism on a Disney Afternoon mailing list for giving too much away. We'd show a villain who didn't appear until the end of Act One, thus cueing our audience to expect that villain all along. A valid criticism. So we tried to adjust here. Coldstone's participation wasn't a secret. The episode opens in his "internal cyber-world" and he's shown dormant in the Clock Tower in the very next scene. But when Demona and Macbeth first walk past Elisa and Morgan, we're not supposed to know who they are. So I intentionally kept them out of the recap to preserve that reveal.
The heather Othello gathers has no scent. Why not? Everything in that world, except for the souls of the three gargs was simply a mental construct. Sight, sound, touch. So why not smell? No chemical senses, you might argue. But why no chemical senses? Why touch and not taste? I think that the lack of smell was an unconscious or subconscious boundary that Desdemona did not want to cross. Something to remind her that this world is not real. For all we know, Othello and Iago could smell whatever they imagined they could smell.
I like seeing Hudson and Broadway learning to read. We cheated a bit. I'm not sure they could have progressed as fast as they did in the short time since "Lighthouse". But we took that liberty to show that they had been working assiduously at it.
I have mixed feelings about Hudson's "Why would she want to 'hit a sack'?" line. On the one hand, I'm not sure we ever did enough of this. Playing with the contrasts in language and expression between their world and ours. On the other hand, it just seemed a bit late in the game for Hudson not to have heard this one already. (And for that matter, I have no idea when that particular phrase originated. For all I know they've been hitting the sack since the Middle Ages.)
Elisa makes a point of saying that she's "no hero". Just a gal doing a job. But of course, we know that's not true. It's simply how she'd prefer to view herself -- particularly when she's so tired. I tried to use this episode to emphasize that Elisa works the night shift. That she gets off work just before sunrise. Starts work just after sunset. (I actually imagine that she works a four day ten hour shift, plus mucho overtime.) Sometimes it seemed like the fans had forgotten that. I got a lot of questions back then like: "She works during the day and hangs with the gargoyles at night. When does she sleep?"
Morgan has a real nice role in this one. Keith is great as Morgan. So distinctive from Goliath in a part that was a mere throwaway in Awakening, Part One. Morgan and Elisa's easy rapor in this episode and Avalon One is what gave me the idea that he might someday ask her out (on that 2nd Halloween episode I've mentioned a few times). And the notion of a Keith-Salli-Keith triangle tickled me a bit.
Enter Macbeth as a perp with a human Demona dressed as a cop. (Always nice to show our characters in different costumes on occasion.) I'm curious how many people IMMEDIATELY recognized Demona as herself? After all, you'd only gotten a BRIEF glimpse of her human form in "The Mirror". And we hadn't shown it at all in "Vows" or "City of Stone". In fact, City of Stone began what we then called our Third Tier of stories. (Tier One was the first season. Tier Two was the first eight episodes of the second season: Leader, Legion, Metamorphosis, Lighthouse, Silver Falcon, Mirror, Eye of the Beholder, Vows.) And of course, City of Stone was transitional, so one could argue that Tier Three was beginning here with High Noon. Anyway, Demona's in atypical dress and species. Who knew it was her?
And once you did know, what were you thinking? The gargoyles have the same questions, I'd imagine. Last they (and you) saw, Mac and Demona hated each other, and had been taken away by the seemingly benevolent Weird Sisters. What was going through your heads about all this? Did you wonder at the seeming inconsistencies, like their knowledge of the Clock Tower? Their ability to get Coldstone out of the tower in daylight, unseen?
When my son Ben saw Demona, he thought it was one of the "triplets", which is what he calls the Weird Sisters. (They've fast become his favorite characters.) When I pointed out that she had red hair and not white, yellow or black, he was resistent to giving up on the idea that they weren't going to appear. (I was glad they eventually did. And now I wonder what he's going to think about the next seven episodes in which they do NOT appear.)
Throughout this, we cheat a bit on Elisa's exhaustion. We knock her out, but keep her tired. The subtle differences between various means of being unconscious and their effects on how tired one is confuse me.
I love Mac and D's exchange...
Mac: "You're still thinking like a gargoyle."
D: "I am a gargoyle." And don't you forget it.
Again, back in those days I just thought the audience would get revved up merely because we were teaming up THREE of our major villains. Macbeth, Demona and the villainous side of Coldstone. In Batman or Superman that would be a BIG EVENT. A huge threat to the hero. Did it have that effect on you guys? I feel vaguely that in a strange way, it did not. That our villains were so complex, that for once they backfired on us. That it wasn't viewed as, "Wow, our heroes have barely survived an encounter with one of those guys, how will they handle three?" Rather, the conflict was less interesting than the machinations and personalities. Am I being clear? Your thoughts?
This episode had some truly gorgeous animation in it. And the transformation scenes are both very cool. The Pain Link plays well here, though occasionally seems more geared to comedy than drama for some reason. The theme of gifts coming with a price... particularly the gifts of tricksters is emphasized in this scene.
Meanwhile Othello is desperately trying to remain an ostrich with his head in the sand. A position that on at least one level, Elisa 'believes' she'd like to take as well. With Othello, I think it's a real possibility that he will never act. With Elisa, I don't think we believe it for a moment. That's part of the reason they're both in there. To make sure that the theme of "Standing Up" is emphasized. Which brings us to the title, "HIGH NOON". That was one of mine, I believe. And I stole it right from the Gary Cooper movie. Sure we'd have a battle at High Noon. Because this was Elisa's story, not the gargoyles. Because the gargoyles would be asleep and vulnerable. But also because it was that kind of archetypal the-hero-stands-alone western battle.
You may notice that Xander Berkeley (the voice of Iago) does not appear in this episode. Because Iago has no lines when he's not in control of the Coldstone body. Again, I'm always so impressed with what a great job Michael Dorn does contrasting the Othello and Iago personalities without actually changing his voice.
I like Elisa's line when Brooklyn asks her if she recognized the woman with Macbeth. "She seemed familiar." Think about this for a second. If this was real life and not a cartoon, do you think you'd recognize Demona in Dominique? And yet I completely buy that Elisa recognized something in there. There's a strange nega-intimacy between Elisa and Demona. (Which is one of the sick reasons why I created Delilah, later.)
Goliath and Elisa engage in a little dueling patronizing here. Elisa has to go back on shift, so can't accompany the 'goyles to Mac's place. Goliath is pretty smug when he says the six of them can handle it. (The smugness, I hope, is undercut when he follows it up by saying, "You have a whole city to protect." Which is how he views it.) Then Elisa talks to them like they're little kids. She wants a full report when they get back. (Who says these two weren't made for each other?)
Lex, who has been and will continue to be very adept at breaking alarm systems, etc., for once admits that it's all too easy.
I like the moment when Goliath taps the camera with his wing. A nice little touch. And very well animated.
Lex is always the voice of warning in regards to Coldstone. This is important. Goliath listens to Lex this time. And Lex is fooled when Coldstone reveals Demona's involvement, seemingly before they know Demona is involved. I thought that was very clever on the villains' part.
Bronx smells Demona behind the closet, just as he did behind the tapestry.
I like how the marble bust flies and crashes. Another nice touch in the boarding and animation. Nice weight to the whole Brooklyn-Demona-Bronx fight scene.
I liked staging the Macbeth, Husdon, Broadway fight in a library. Felt like a thematic rematch from "Lighthouse".
The pain link here is a BIT of a cheat. Usually with them in different rooms on different floors, it wouldn't be quite this intense. Maybe the library is directly above whatever room Demona was in.
Lex is sure Coldstone's wrong about Demona. Brooklyn's "Uh, guess again." line is fun.
The entire battle at Macbeth's place is part of a technique I enjoy using on occasion called "Suspended Structure". This is really an Elisa and Othello Story. But we let the gargs carry the action for a period of time, while the true protagonists can't or won't take action. This keeps the story moving, without compromising the inaction of our "leads".
Demona confronts Elisa at the clock tower. The animators get a little carried away here with some of Demona's body language. God knows, it's fun to watch. But would she really do all those sexpot poses? Is that in character?
It is fun to see her hail a taxi though.
Morgan's back. Elisa now looks VERY tired. Again, great work from the animators. It's all in the eyes. Morgan helps Elisa though he thinks she's just talking about normal copwork. It only proves there's really no such thing as a "Normal Life". Morgan certainly doesn't think he has one.
Meanwhile Desdemona's gettin antsy. It's the "in" that the Weird Sisters need. They take over. Unfortunately, here, the animators screwed up. The three Desdemona's were supposed to have silver, gold and raven hair. Instead, in most shots, they just look like three Dessies. Then when they finally do get the hair right, it's just before they merge back into one Desdemona. At which point, the hair color should have been Des'. Instead, I think it's Luna's -- briefly. Oh, well. Anyway, I could have just done this with Desdemona herself. But I wanted to give the audience a hint that the Weird Sisters were still involved. Ben was thrown by the hair. He almost didn't believe these were the triplets.
I like the line: "Even shadows must be true to their shade."
High Noon at Belvedere Castle. Coldstone wonders that he can see the sun. Again, that's me making sure people are clear that Coldstone is RE-ANIMATED STONE, not flesh. I don't think it's visually clear. (Part of the problem being that Othello's coloring is too similar.)
Then Elisa arrives -- counting on Macbeth's honor to keep Demona from shooting her. For that reason, she intentionally doesn't bring her service revolver to the party. Quite the gambit. Elisa also counts on Demona's temper -- and on the fact that Demona is unaccustomed to fighting with reduced human strength. She goads Demona: "I'm here to save him." and "You fight like a rookie." I love, positively LOVE, the former of those two lines. Elisa is a hero in her own right. Though Goliath has rescued her on occasion, I felt we did a pretty good job of always evening the score. She's no damsel in distress.
Mac & Coldstone: "This is diverting." "You have no idea." (Quotations approximate.) I like that. A tip of the hat to my being a guy, if you will.
We cheat a bit here on the pain link too. One could argue that Mac IS feeling the pain. But he's ready for it and covering. He does seem to be grimacing a bit when he says, "You have no idea." But still, I think we cheated.
I love the animation on the Othello, Desdemona, Iago fight.
Battle over, Coldstone leaves. Sends himself into exile. This is the gargoyle way.
And hey, our jogger is back. Again wondering where all these statues are coming from. That's just fun continuity for me. And Elisa: "Don't ask me. I'm just taking a nap."
And then the whole final scene between Mac and D and the sisters is so much fun. I love the sense of the fog lifting from their eyes. "What Primary Objective?" "Why are we working together?"
And I'm also proud of the trick. A very Xanatosian tag here. Steal Coldstone to distract the gargs from noticing the thefts of the gate, book and eye.
And how about that reference to "The coming battle..." that the Sisters end the episode on? What did you all think of that at the time?
I'll try to post the High Noon writer's memo tomorrow. (Meant to do it yesterday, but I forgot.) Anyway, Done rambling. You're turn. (Again, I'm interested in both your original and current responses to the episode.)
1. i assume that Coldstone went to the Himalayas after "High Noon" because of the isolation, correct?
2. how did he know there were no gargoyles in the area, or did he just have to look around for an isolated spot?
3. did he meet any other garg clans on his way to the Himalayas?
4. what was he hoping to accomplish in this isolation?
5. how did he get from New York to Tibet?
6. how did Xanatos find him in "Possesions"?
7. Iago doesn't have a kid on Avalon, right?
8. in "Possesions" i guess there wasn't really time to explore the Coldtrio's opinions on the eggs surviving so what do they think?
9. would Gabriel's parentage ever be revealed to him as was Angela's? would he care? what would Coldstone and Coldfire think if they found out?
1. Largely.
2. It seemed isolated, and largely proved isolated.
3. No.
4. To win an internal battle.
5. He flew.
6. Coldstone gives off a signal which X can track.
7. I never said that.
8. I'm not entirely sure they're aware of it.
9. It's something to explore. But the mere fact that Coldstone and Coldfire exist and the mere fact that the "eggs" survived -- is much more significant than biological parentage.
is the technology that allows the Iago and Desdemona robots to heal have anything to do with the Matrix?
Yes, in a down-graded fashion.
did Xanatos know that one of the souls in Coldstone was evil? i figure he did know, but then why did he build a robot for it and not let it just fade out of existence? and even if the soul had to go somewhere why put it in robot with great strength and cool weapons? if he was really trying to help out Coldstone why create a bigger headache for him? poor Coldstone gets screwed at the end of every episode he's in...
Yeah. Poor Coldstone.
Anyway, Xanatos is not a wasteful man. Think about it.
[1] The first time I watched _Possession_ I pretty much took it for granted how much Coldfire and Coldsteel resembled 'Desdemona' and 'Iago'. It makes sense when you're used to half-baked comic book logic (not to disrespect your own fine work in the field), but Gargoyles takes great pains to create a more, erm, well-done and realistic (or at least snarkily pseudo-scientific :P) universe. On later viewings, I was compelled to contemplate further. The techniques used in creating the Steel Clan wouldn't apply here, I think. The techies at Scarab Corp. (or wherever) probably had lots of old security tapes of Goliath to pore over as much as they liked, but it's hard to imagine how that'd work with the Legionnaires. Was the likeness of design only in animation, then?
[2] Likewise, with the the WWII statue in London, which off-the-bat was recognizable as being of Goliath and Griff. Was its sculptor working solely off of Sir Douglas' accounts? (Pilots are generally more observant than the average bear, and from the impression he made on you as a kid, he musta made one heckuva eyewitness. It still is kind of a stretch, though...)
1. You're forgetting Puck. And various memory chips inside Coldstone.
2. I always thought that that statue was funded by Leo and Una. Ostensibly as a memorial to the Battle of Britain, but really as a memorial to Griff and Goliath.
Silly hypothetical question.
What do you suppose Broadway and Angela were thinking when Othello suggested that he and Desdemona keep possession of their (Broadways and Angela's) bodies? Assuming they could hear them the way Brooklyn could Iago.
They were probably SCREAMING!!
What would you think?
You've said before that Coldstone and Coldfire would treat the entire clan as their children..how would Gabriel react to this?
You mean the entire Avalon clan, right?
At any rate, that depends a great deal on how Gabriel would react to Coldstone and Coldfire in the first place. I mean neither are your typical gargoyles.
would Coldstone suffer seven years bad luck for shattering the mirror in "reawakening"?
At least.
if pieces of both iago and desdemona were used in the awakening of coldstone why didn't xanatos use samples from those pieces to clone new bodies instead of build robots? was xanatos still a little shoken up about the thailog thing? how do you put a soul into a robot? goliath made it clear in "outfoxed" that machines are no match for flesh and blood!
There were no living cells in Coldstone to clone. Coldstone himself is not a clone. Rather he is a reanimated corpse.
In reply to a question I posted eons ago you said that Desdemona is "more forgiving" than most. Obviously she's forgiven Othello for his lack of faith in her, but did/will she ever forgive Iago?
Maybe once, a thousand years ago. But now it's just gotten creepy.
Hoping you have your timeline with you, what year did Iago convince Othello that Desdemona was involved with Goliath, in the Dark Ages?
Sorry, I don't have it with me. I'm in my (once a week) Disney office. The Timeline is back at my own B.H. office.
A little add on to the last question I submitted:
What year did Iago decieve Othello about Desdemona and Goliath. In 'Legion' Desdemona said something like "He's trying to decieve you like he did a thousand years ago." Was it exactly a thousand years ago? Legion first aired in 1995 and exactly a thousand years before Iago, Desdemona and Othello were gone and dust. So it had to be before 995. What year did it occur?
Not exactly, no.
I know this, but I don't have my timeline with me. Ask me again later.
When Iago made Othello believe that Goliath was trying to steal Desdemona away from Othello during the Dark Ages, what was Demona's role in all this?
Minimal.
Question about "Legion", during the scene in the Golden Cup building, after he had been shot by the Recap probe, Coldstone yelled "Why did you bring me here only to attack me?!" Why did he say this, and who was he talking to?
I loved that bit where the recap shoots a gas grenade and it bounces off Coldstone's chest(and he glances down like, "Huh?") ;-)
He was just crying out to all those guards who were shooting at him. He said it because he had no memory of coming there himself. From his (Othello's) P.O.V. he'd awakened there to find these humans (and robots) attacking him. It was very upsetting.
Was Iago only after Desdemona? Did he just want a female, or Desdemona in particular? I ask because he didn't seem terribly interested in say, Demona.
He was obsessed with Desdemona.
Were there any plans to incorporate Frankenstein into the Gargoyles universe?
Yes. He's called Coldstone.
Legion:
Why was Iago so bent on getting Desdemona as his mate? Is he just the type who won't take "no" for an answer or what?
And why was Desdemona crying in the first few scenes in "Legion"(where Goliath tries to comfort her?)
Obsession.
Othello's jealous streak.
P.S.
This is going to sound amazingly retarded but are Coldstone and Broadway related? I ask this because the two have similar skin tones, the unique 'fanned' ears, and Coldstone's hair is white like Broadway's father, Hudson (assuming Hudson's hair has always been white). Hudson supposedly has a child from Goliath's generation, so that fits with Coldstone. Spurious evidence perhaps, but nothing ventured nothing gained. Feel free to hand me the dunce's cap. <:(
God, I need sleep.
They may be related -- they're from the same clan after all, but they aren't biological brothers if that's what you are asking.
Because this question hasn't been answered yet, I'd like to re-submit Jeff Lenihan's question:
"2)In "Grief," Anubis states that that which is dead and gone cannot be brought back. Why, then, was Demona able to bring the spirit of Coldstone (and those of Coldfire and Coldsteel) back from the dead? Was Anubis trying to say that he is under some sort of magical restriction similar to Oberon's law of non-interferece that prevents him from bringing back the dead, or something else entirely?"
Anubis refused. And he had good reasons, as the Emir realized after he became the Avatar. I never said that ghosts don't exist. Coldstone is still dead.
Hi Greg,
So, a pit-stop in Tibet for purposes unknown, combined with a run-in with Coldstone in the Himalayas.
1) Are these two unrealized stories indeed one in the same?
2) In the original conception of the idea, did Coldstone undergo any kind of change as a result of the story? In every other encounter with Coldstone, he was left changed in some manner.
3) Could the story be magically inserted into the canon series right now with no messed up continuity in regards to "Possessions"?
1. Yes.
2. Not gonna say. But the story came in between his appearances in High Noon and Possessions.
3. Yes. It was designed that way.
Finding myself lost in that massive "Old Ask Greg Archive," I stumbled across a mention of a missing World Tour episode featuring Coldstone in the Himalayas. What would've happened there?
An entire story.
1.Is Coldsteel ability to heal limited to his tentacles or can he heal his entire body?
2.What about Coldfire? Can she heal was well?
1. I think the word we're looking for is "repair". The answer is yes, assuming no major system is damaged.
2. Yep.
Hi Greg. First Post-G2K question, trying to catch up on your latest answers. (Hope you and the family had fun at MGM)
"Didn't we answer this at the con?"
Yes, but the question is left over from before the con. And you passed the question off to Thom, Greg G., and Vic, if that's what you mean by we.
"[And by the way, I'm no more a carpenter than a biologist.]"
Sorry, but now I have this vision of you shouting "Damn it Jim, I'm a storyteller, not a..."
Re: Gladiator and The Phantom Menace. If I remember right, the historical Commodius (sp) actually did go out and fight gladiators for fun, so it's not totally off the mark. (Of course, they'd played so fast and loose with historical accuracy by then anyway...) As for TPM, you didn't miss much.
Puck breaking the fourth wall. Coulda worked. Maybe a moment where he's sort of looking at the camera and talking to us by talking to himself.
And, so this'll have at least one question:
How much, if any, did Xanatos know about Iago's personality when he built Coldsteel? More on that in the next post.
Sorry, but now I have this vision of you shouting "Damn it Jim, I'm a storyteller, not a..."
That was the point.
As for Commodius, I knew that, and that would have been great, if the movie had depicted him that way in any way ever. But it never did.
More than you'd think. Coldstone broadcasts.
If Xanatos did know what Iago was like, was he
A. Being kinda irresponsible to give a psycho like that access to a state of the art killing machine without building in some kind of failsafe.
B. Hoping to use Coldsteel for his own ends later, *finally* getting a gargoyle who'd work for him. After all, Iago's Dark Ages alliance with the Archmage makes this a bit of a possibility.
Yes.
Yes.
Xanatos was never one not to throw caution to the wind. But keep in mind he always has a back-up plan and he did build the robot.
Would Coldsteel still try to get Coldfire to be his mate?
Yep. He's kinda a sicko.
Dear Greg,
Just read your Legion ramble...and I have to say this:
At the time when I first saw that Episode, I knew that Iago was trying to indicate that Goliath was betraying Othello with Desdemona, but I didn't understand why the credits listed the characters with such names. Boy was I naive.
A couple years later I was taking a Shakespeare class and read Othello. Can you imagine, about Act 2 somewhere we're reading it outloud and all of a sudden I say outloud: OH I GET IT. My friends thought I was insane. I had to give a quick explination for my outburst, which didn't help much to prove my sanity (none of them had watched Gargoyles).
Since reading the play Othello has become my favorite of the Shakespearian Tragedies (though I admit I have to read several more) And the Love "Pentagram" has become a delightful flavoring to the show.
I say Pentagram because I do believe that Demona would have been caught up in the whole mess. Especially given that Iago likens so well to the Shakespearian version. If he's going to ruin Goliath (and Othello as well) Then "In for a penny, in for a pound" Demona would have to go too. And probably the whole clan (including Hudson) probably would have been at Odds with Goliath thanks to Iago's whispering.
Which leads me to my first question:
1. Did the incident between Othello, Desdemona, Iago and Goliath occur before or after Goliath became leader to the clan? I ask because it strikes me that if after, Iago would not only try to win Desdemona, but Leadership as well.
2. Since Demona collected pieces of the shattered Iago to create Coldstone, we know he was banish from the clan. So what punishment was set upon Iago for causing such a clash between rookery brothers.
3. For that matter, would anyone have truely realized what Iago was doing, that he was responsible for it?
4. In City of Stone's flashback, we see Demona almost warning Othello and Desdemona about the upcoming attack. In one way, these two were used so that it wouldn't be just random gargs...But given the idea that Demona would have gotten tied up in the whole love scandal, it would seem Demona wouldn't exactly like Desdemona (even if the whole thing proved false; she's got trouble forgiving people) So why, in a character sense would Demona have gone to these two?
Well, I'm sure I had more questions along this topic, but I can't think of them after all that typing, so I'll let you get on with the other questions.
"So will I turn her virtue into pitch; and out of her own goodness make a net that shall emesh them all." -Iago (my fav quote from the play)
1. After.
2. He was banished for a time.
3. Eventually.
4. Well, first off because they were there. Also, back then, Desdemona was the closest thing Demona had to a sister. Once everything was resolved there was less hostility there then you are imagining... however, perhaps all that history DID play some >small< role in why she DIDN'T warn them.
Good quote.
Two more questions about the Cold Trio:
Was Desdemona aware of the Weird Sister's possession of her, shall we say, soul?(when she split in three's)
And what was this "cause" they were talking about(i.e. Desdemona: "My love? Do we take up the cause?")? The Gargoyle Way?
Thanks!
Sorta.
Sorta. But more immediately, it was the threat that Iago was clearly presenting right then.
One last question. Is the relationship that the three original "Coldstone spirits" have with their new robotic bodies similar to the relationship (or magical ties, or whatever you want to call it) that Hakon had with the axe? Are they similarly bound to the living world only through their bodies? And does this connection now rely more on the magic that summoned them into Coldstone's body (which was done with human magic) or on the spell that transfered them to their new bodies (which was done with Alex's fairy magic). Where I'm going with this, as you might guess, has to do with the Coldtrio's access to Avalon, where human magic is forbidden. I must stop here before I say too much, but if you can, please discuss this possible complication.
The answer to your first question is yes.
The answer to the last is subject to interpretation. Which means anything is possible -- as long as the loophole exists.
You mentioned that Xanatos had collected the remains of the three gargoyles that eventually formed Coldstone. A few questions came to mind. 1a) Did Xanatos or Demona realize at the time that they were combining pieces from three different gargoyles? 1b) If the answer to 'a' is yes, was Demona aware of exactly which three they were putting together? 1c) Was she or Xanatos aware that three different souls would inhabit the body? 2) This may be a little gruesome, but you mentioned before that most of Coldstone's body was "Othello's", with only a hip or something from "Desdemona" and a similar piece from "Iago". Were those the only pieces of those gargoyles that could be recovered? 3a) Were these the only gargoyle "remains" that Xanatos found? 3b) If the answer to 'a' is no, what did Xanatos do with the other remains? 4) Considering Coldstone's behavior and tone of voice in "Reawakening", it's assumed that "Othello" is in control in that episode. Why didn't the other two personalities emerge? 5) Unlike the sleeping Manhattan gang, the "remains" around the castle clearly belonged to dead gargoyles. Why didn't Demona perform the Wind Ceremony for them?
1. Maybe.
1b. She knew she was getting "Othello", I'm not sure if she could identify the other two.
1c. No.
2. Yes, after all those years.
3a. Well....
3b. Who said there are any other remains?
4. Correct. He was dominant. The virus began breaking down that dominance, thus releasing the other two.
5. Demona couldn't face the Massacre. I don't think she EVER went back.
I asked this before but seems to have gotten lost, so I decided to repost it:
1) What would the relationship between Iago and Demona have been like in the Dark Ages? After all Demona was the Archmages' apprentice, but Iago was allied with him, so would he look down on her? In HIGH NOON, he calls her 'sister', but thats because he doesn't know that it is her fault he is dead and that she is now an enemy of Goliath.
Also would he hate her, in Dark Ages, because she was in love with Goliath and was friends with Desdemona and Othello?
2) Did Goliath etc, learn of Demona's apprenticeship with The Archmage?
3) If the answer to (2) is yes, then how would Goliath react?
1. Edgy.
2. No.
3. N.A.
I'm curious about how Coldstone moves his cyborg parts:
Is there some kind of advanced circutry that attaches his brain to his arm/ anything that's not his flesh (or in this case, stone). Or is that a part of the sorcery?
Both.
I was wondering if Broadway was the best warrior/fighter of the trio from purely a skills POV? I say this because Iago was "disapointed in Brooklyn's fighting skills" in Possesion. Its also not hard to tell that Broadway is the strongest of the trio, which suggests that he would make the best fighter (whether or not its because of an unfair advantage he was born with). Was he possible spending more time training back in the pre-massecre (sp) days while Brook or Lex were off learning to read? Learning to read doesnt happen overnight. He must have been doing somthing during all that time, and I'm sure he didnt spend all of it eating. ;)
I wouldn't take Coldsteel's words too seriously. He was operating Brooklyn's body at the time. I think he was just making excuses.
Brooklyn, Broadway and Lex each have different fighting styles. They're all accomplished warriors. Broadway does have the advantage of bulk and strength, but I doubt he trained more than wanna-be-leader Brooklyn.
I'd like to ask your opinion on a ramble that I've written.
One of my all-time favorite episodes is POSSESSION. In POSSESSION, Broadway, Angela, and Brooklyn were vessels for the spirits of Coldstone, Coldfire, and Coldsteel. I have always believed that there were reasons for this.
As I see it, Broadway and Angela were possessed by the lovers, Coldstone and Coldfire for a reason. I always thought that it was a subtle way to hint that it would be they that became a couple themselves. Brooklyn was used by Coldsteel because he subconsciously possessed jealousy toward Broadway for his success with Angela that Coldsteel harbored for Coldstone about Coldfire. I was lead to believe that especially where Brooklyn/Coldsteel was going to carry the unconscious Angela/Coldfire away because of his jealous lust for her.
Those are merely my assumptions. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
It's a chicken and the egg thing.
Did the Coldtrio's unbound spirits sense something or cause something?
At any rate, behind the scenes, we certainly used it as a stepping stone to an eventual Broadway/Angela relationship.
REAWAKENING
I really do like this one--maybe just because I have an affinity for cyborgs. At any rate, I was quite glad that we got intro'd to a gargoyle who DID die in the massacre. Yeah, sure he was brought back, but mentally putting that scene in the multi-parter adds another dimension of tragedy to the massacre.
I can more than understand the problem with seeing Xanatos and Demona looking at a monitor one moment, then appearing in Times Square about 3 seconds later. At times like these, I do the only thing I can do: rationalize. I make-believe X and D were in some odd, high-tech, bus-like vehicle (mobile control unit, anyone). It's silly, but it works for me.
Another animation note--in addition to Hudson's sword--when Brooklyn tackles Demona they are below the top cables of the bridge, and before they hit the ground they fall onto and bounce off...the top cables of the bridge. Oh well, the confrontation is still too great for that little bit to ruin.
Oddly enough, I don't mind Elisa's little crack about the size of her car. I actually find it an amusing, sarcastic beat. And yeah, the scarf and gloves are nice.
And of course, there is an abundance of funny lines. In addition to the bit with "Bambi" and Xanatos' fulfillment of a life-long dream ("It's alive! ALIVE!!"), I just love Morgan's little response to Elisa's "There must be something we can do."
Morgan: "I don't think so. Unless you're packing a nuclear weapon." I can see why you keep bringing this guy back--he's a wonderful character.
Coldstone> I was glad Micheal Dorn did a voice on the show. I mean, just listen to the guy! Coldstone himself made for some memorable moments. I noticed that you guys didn't put the "underwater respirator" on him as the memo stipulated. What changed you guys' minds?
The look into Gargoyle culture here was also quite welcome. A nice touch that the gargoyles did not "officially" become crime-fighters until the end of the first season. Kind of more organic and unique than most series that just intro a group of non-human heroes and have them be crime-fighters more or less from day one. And the differences in opinion of the gargoylean proverb between the characters was a nice use of the ep's theme. Goliath's quandry here is quite compelling.
Finally, just one question dealing with the memo. You made mention of a Madame Serena. Who was she?
Re: Underwater respirator. We realized that Coldstone wasn't technically alive. He didn't need an underwater respirator, because he was living stone (or living organic substance that resembles stone) brought back to life. He requires a power source. Oxygen is only necessary for speech, and maybe not even that.
Re: Madame Serena. I'm not sure I remember. She was a character that appeared in the first draft of the outline Michael gave us. She was some kinda psychic or gypsey or witch (or all of the above). But she didn't, in my opinion, fit into this story. And I guess we all quickly forgot about her. The thing is I can't check. I have my notes on Michael's outline, but I didn't keep his outline, so I can't go back to see what exact role Michael had in mind for her. Guess, you'll have to ask him.
Are Coldstone and Coldfire Gabriel's parents? Gabe looks like Coldstone and I think he has Coldfire's weird wings. Was that intended?
Coldstone and Coldfire ARE Gabriels biological parents. They are also two of his rookery parents. Two of only five that survive into this century.
And yes, that's all intentional.
Are Goliath and Coldstone biological brothers or just rookery brothers?
Rookery brothers.
There are never any biological brothers of the same generation. Cousins, sure. Brothers and sisters, never.
An additional little thought, inspired by your comparing Coldstone to the Frankenstein monster. As somebody who's read the original book by Mary Shelley, and quite liked it, I feel that while Coldstone certainly has a strong echo of the monster in him, as you've pointed out, I feel that Goliath does as well, although more in a contrast than in a similarity.
Like the monster (as portrayed by Mary Shelley in her book; alas for the way that Hollywood weakened the character by turning him into a mute, shuffling brute), Goliath is a noble being who appears threatening towards humans and is shunned and feared by so many humans whom he seeks to help. Also like the monster, Goliath is a thoughtful and eloquent being, and well-read with a taste for the classics (the Frankenstein monster reads Plutarch's Lives and Milton's "Paradise Lost", while Goliath reads Shakespeare and Dostoyevsky). The big difference is that the Frankenstein monster is all alone, with nobody to befriend him, and becomes embittered towards humanity thus, while Goliath has the clan and Elisa, which undoubtedly helps him. They're almost foils, in a sense. (Of course, Goliath also isn't an artificial creation, either, as the monster was). Just a little thought that had occurred to me.
I like that analysis. Very sweet.
By the way, it always blew me away that the VERY FIRST BOOK the Monster ever read in "FRANKENSTEIN" was Milton's Paradise Lost. I hadn't read FRANKENSTEIN until college, and also not until after I had read Paradise Lost. (Of course, I knew the basics of both stories long before I actually read the books.)
I couldn't imagine having to teach myself to read with PARADISE LOST. Not exactly FUN WITH DICK AND JANE or Doctor Seuss, you know?
Ah, at last the "Re-Awakening" ramble. It was well worth the wait, too.
One thought that I've recently had on Coldstone: I wonder if any of us, living in the end of the 20th century, can fully comprehend the horror that his cybernetic condition must have held for him when he was first "re-awakened" by Xanatos and Demona in this episode. For any of us, waking up and discovering that we'd been turned into a cyborg would certainly be a horrifying enough experience. But Coldstone's experience is all the worse, at least, IMHO, because of one simple factor: cybernetics are completely beyond the world-view of anybody born (or hatched, in this case) and raised in the 10th century. He wouldn't know what they were, beyond just some strange form of magic. All that he can know is that something utterly alien, beyond his comprehension, has become part of him. I thought that the episode did a good job of displaying his horrified response to his transformation (especially the part where he uses that blaster built into his arm for the first time and is staring at it in shock and horror).
I'd also spotted some of the parallels with "Awakening", including the bit about how Goliath pronounced "detective". And I certainly agree with you that, if "Gargoyles" had ended there, "Re-Awakening" would have given it a great series finale. (Of course, you got to do another 52 episodes, all the way up to "Hunter's Moon", an even better "might-have-been" series finale, but that's another story).
I also liked your pointing out about how the gargoyles' thoughts on protection, and its evolution into protecting Manhattan, were handled in this story.
A couple of minor parts that I particularly like in this episode:
1. The way that Xanatos glares at Demona when she introduces him to Coldstone as her servant.
2. The "explosions in Bambi" bit.
3. And the very resurrection of Coldstone, which is one of my favorite "special-effects" sequences in "Gargoyles".
(Sometimes knowing makes something MORE horrific.)
Ignorance, I would think, puts a ceiling on horror. Ramifications may add terror. Which is not to say that Coldstone wasn't thoroughly horrified. But like you said, to him it was just ghastly magic. If it happened to us, well, I'm not sure it wouldn't be worse.
One final "Re-Awakening"-related post. One thing that bothered me a bit about the episode is Coldstone's "Dawn came, and then oblivion" line. The reason why I find it troubling is that the "oblivion" part almost suggests that gargoyles don't have an afterlife, which I find disquieting. Admittedly, Coldstone's situation is a near-unique one, but still, the implications.... What are your thoughts on this one?
What happened, and what he remembers may be two different things. But I also had the Wind Ceremony in mind. See my notes on that.
Story Editor: Michael Reaves
Written by Marty Isenberg & Robert N. Skir
I just watched "Legion" again. Time to Ramble.
From the memo I posted earlier this week, you'll see that the never used on screen names of Othello, Desdemona and Iago were my idea. But I've always wondered if that's the case. The outline that Marty and Bob wrote immediately prior to that memo had all the Othello elements very, very present in the story. All they didn't do was NAME the characters. I always wondered whether they and/or Michael had the Othello story specifically in mind, consciously or un-, and I just capitalized on it.
The Goldencup Bakery Building, which semi-secretly houses a defense department hi-tech research and development installation is modeled after the Silver Cup Bakery Building -- which actually exists in Brooklyn (as I recall). That Building was trashed in the original HIGHLANDER movie in the final battle between Connor and the Kragen (who was played by a pretty damned horrific Clancy Brown). Small world.
I was always worried that the whole Othello, Desdemona, Iago, Cassio (whoops, I mean Goliath) backstory was a bit vague in this episode. Did anyone have problems getting it?
I don't think I'd like to be one of those Goldencup Guards. Coldstone punches one of them out. That's gotta hoit. He just seems fairly unstoppable in that Xanatos-program controlled sequence. I like how that plays.
Matt says to Elisa: "You never let me drive." My wife's reaction: "Was that in homage to me?" My wife, you see, almost always drives when we're together. She gets carsick when anyone else drives. And I don't much care.
Speaking of Matt, we've got that line about him spending six months reading RECAP manuals to justify why a normal detective would be in charge of RECAP in the first place. Just trying to avoid either adding a superfluous character and/or making the situation seem artificial.
Another appearance of the Scarab Corp. Logo, even though Scarab is never mentioned by name. Oh, well...
Coldstone flees the Goldencup. Goliath and Lex pursue, and Coldstone attacks them. Then he immediately stops, when he sees it's Goliath. The problem I always had with that scene is that the lighting made it obvious that it was Goliath from moment one. (Not just to us, but to Coldstone.) If Goliath had been in shadows, it would have played better.
Minutes later Lex asks Goliath if it's wise to take Coldstone into their home: "He hasn't always been your friend." This was, theoretically, a reference not simply to the most recent attack, nor even only to the events of "Reawakening", but also a reference to the pre-Massacre backstory of the actually non-existent love triangle (or square or pentagram if you include Demona) that caused Goliath and Othello to fight way back when. Lex remembers those days too. Othello was always a bit of a hot-head.
I love Goliath's response: "Without trust there can be no clan." And I love that this is part of a Lex/Goliath exchange. It fits in perfectly with the message they taught each other in "Thrill of the Hunt". Gotta take some chances on occasion. Or else you'll always be alone. It's an anti-Demona mentality. Or rather a mentality that is strikingly un-Demona-esque.
From the moment Coldstone premiered in "Reawakening" I knew (that if we survived to a second season) we'd discover that he was created from three Gargoyles. Tried to work that conceptually into the design more, but we never quite achieved it. So basically that becomes something that the audience has to take on trust.
Which brings me to the title "Legion". It's a one-word title which usually is a tip-off that it's one of mine. I know it's a biblical reference. Some possessed guy with a demon/devil inside who goes by the name "Legion". But that's not actually where I got it. When I was a kid, I saw this tv movie based on Mary Shelley's FRANKENSTEIN. It starred Michael Sarazan or Chris Sarandon. (I always used to mix those two guys up.) It was trying to present a more realistic believable version of the Frankenstein story. I was pretty young. And I don't remember too much about it. I do remember that I was supposed to be asleep -- past my bedtime in the days before my parents gave up and I began going to bed long after they were asleep. But instead of being asleep, I was watching it, in the dark, with the volume turned as far down as possible, me sitting right by the set, so I could flip it off if I heard my parents' door opening. (This was long before remote controls were common.) Anyway, the one scene that I really remember is a scene where they put the Monster under hypnosis. The voices of all the people who "donated" body parts begin to speak. And one of them quotes the "Legion" thing from the bible. But I didn't know that. That is I didn't know back then that he was quoting anyone or anything. It just seemed like a very powerful, poetic and humanly true statement. So it wasn't until college that I read that passage in the bible and realized where it was from. Can anyone cite the actual quote? I can't remember where exactly it's from, and I don't feel like searching right now.
Anyway, all this is relevant because Coldstone was ALWAYS our Frankenstein character from the "IT'S ALIVE!" moment to the "Legion" stuff here.
Coldstone calls Hudson "Mentor". That's a "name" I've been long considering for Hudson's "designation" in the DARK AGES prequel spin-off.
Coldstone shoots Goliath at point blank range. Goliath gets up unharmed. A far cry from what happened to G in "Long Way to Morning." Now in the outline and script, it says that Coldstone uses his "concussion cannon" as opposed to his laser cannon. But nothing in the as-aired episode makes that distinction. And so it just looks irresponsible to me. Like suddenly we're saying violence has no repercussions. Did that bother anyone else?
I love the dark comedy of Coldstone going bonkers at Ellis Island. Fighting with himself. I think Michael Dorn did a terrific job playing all four aspects of CS's personality. Which of you figured out what when? I'd like to know.
The Trio has the Recap visor. Now all they have to do is find Goliath, Hudson and Coldstone. How will they do that? "Three guesses?" A very elegant way to explain how in a huge city, they're able to locate three gargoyles.
Kenner's Coldstone toy is a lot of fun. With it's window into Coldstone's soul. And the spinner that allows any of the four personas to take over at random.
Xanatos doesn't even appear until the VERY END of Act Two. And it's not even really Xanatos, just a program designed by him. Normally, I'd say that wasn't playing fair. But I feel like his presence was obvious all-along. (And did David personally design that program. Or did he just put his stamp on it, management-style?)
There's a moment when Goliath, thrilled to see his rookery sister again, hugs Desdemona. She is immediately annoyed, because she knows that hug is prone to misinterpretation. It's a nice little touch in the animation.
I always wondered what if anything Demona thought about that ancient conflict way back when. Was Iago playing her as well? Trying to make her jealous of Desdemona? I think maybe he did try. But wouldn't it be cool if she didn't credit it for a second. If she just knew intuitively that Desdemona didn't present any threat at all to her relationship with G? Because, I feel the opposite is true. That Demona knew intuitively that Elisa DID present a threat. Say what you want for Demona, but her subconscious knows her man.
I love that moment where BOTH Iago and Xanatos are whispering in Othello's ears. Poor slob never stood a chance.
We've got a nice little Xanatos tag in this one too. Certainly not a doozy as in "Leader" or "Metamorphosis", but it's got a nice little kick to it, I think. And that's THREE episodes in a row. X had been busy.
And then I love the last beat back at the clock tower. Goliath has confiscated Coldstone's body, to keep it safe and "among friends" should he/she ever wake up again. I wanted to keep it in the corner from that point until "High Noon". Always present and visible. We didn't for two reasons. First, we figured it would be a bit confusing. The Batcave can get away with the giant penny and other souvenirs from Batman's cases, because there ARE multiple souvenirs. But just having one immobile gargoyle in the background, as cool and creepy as that is, would be horribly distracting for any audience member who missed this one particular episode. And second, we had our tier system. What if "Legion" wasn't ready as scheduled. We couldn't have Coldstone sitting around the clock tower in later episodes that we'd be forced to air first. Talk about disconcerting. So we invented a back room. Where Coldstone, the Grimorum, the Gate and eventually the eye could be stored.
Comments welcome, as usual...
I re-watched "Legion" the other night. I'll post my Rambling on it sometime this week, but first here's a memo from September, '94, written by me to Michael Reaves in response to Bob Skir & Marty Isenberg's first draft outline on the episode [reprinted here unedited]:
WEISMAN 9-1-94
Notes on "LEGION" Outline...
Lots of great stuff in here. I just want to make sure that (1) we're clear on the theme and we milk it for all it's worth; (2) we're not skipping beats that will keep things mysterious and interesting for our audience; (3) we clarify the relationships (and names) a bit, and (4) we divorce it all from the 994 Viking attack.
General notes, in no particular order:
NAMES
O.K. I'm as well versed in our series as anyone is going to get, and even I found myself confused by (and backtracking because of) our name problem. Coldstone... Pre-Coldstone... Coldstone's Love... Coldstone's Foe... Coldstone's Dyslexia could cause Coldstone's Ulcer. So let's give our "internal characters" names. I would suggest carrying these names into the script for use in character descriptions and stage directions. Use the names to indicate who is controlling the Coldstone creature at any given moment. And when we are in the inner world of Coldstone's psyche they can also be used as headings for the dialogue. The only place where we should not use these names is in the actual spoken dialogue. They are for our designation only, since, as we all know, gargoyles had no names in the tenth century.
COLDSTONE = The cyborg/gargoyle creature currently known as Coldstone and voiced by Michael Dorn. Use this name only when referring to him in the present. Or in stage directions when referring to the external creature. And obviously, this is the one name we can use in spoken dialogue.
OTHELLO = (Hey, we've already done Macbeth.) The situation you described naturally brought Othello to mind. Othello will refer to Pre-Coldstone (also voiced by Michael Dorn) when he is internally depicted as he was in the tenth century.
DESDEMONA = Will obviously refer to Othello's female gargoyle lover. (Please remember that Desdemona was a warrior in her own right. She can justifiably be confused by this new and bizarre situation, but she shouldn't be weak, clingy or changeable.)
IAGO = Will refer to Othello's male gargoyle foe.
THE BACKSTORY
The main problem I had with this backstory was its tough-to-swallow interweaving with the Viking massacre. I sense you were trying to explain how all their gargoyle parts got mixed up together. This isn't necessary. I think it's safe to assume that when Demona and Xanatos were gathering parts to create Coldstone, they couldn't find enough usable parts from any single gargoyle. We don't know the magical and scientific details that were necessary to revivify this creature, but I think we can safely assume that neither Demona or Xanatos simply wanted to graft Othello's head onto a robot body. Demona especially would have wanted the creature to be as much a gargoyle as possible. So she found a large chunk of Othello's head and a few other usable pieces. She chose him because the Viking who shattered him was lazy and left some chunks intact, but also because she may have had reason to believe that Othello had shared her negative views of humanity. Unfortunately, there wasn't enough of him to build Coldstone. So she turned around and found a nice unbroken piece of Desdemona. And over here, a piece or two from Iago. Toss in Xanatos' computer parts and you've got yourself a creature. She didn't have to be mixing them together by accident. We can posit that she did it out of necessity.
That gives us the freedom to remove this event from the Viking attack. We don't need to imply that Goliath is distracted by an impending Viking attack (which frankly I don't think he was expecting). And we don't need to sandwich in Othello's pursuit of Goliath on the fateful night. And we don't have to toss Demona into this particular story at all. (It's crowded enough as it is.) In fact, the incidents of this story's flashback could have happened months or years before they were all destroyed by Hakon's men. Let's give ourselves this breathing room.
COLDSTONE'S VOICE
I think Coldstone only has one voice-box: Othello's. No matter who controls the creature from the inside, from the outside he sounds like Michael Dorn. I'm not simply suggesting this for logic and/or economy (we'll still cast a different actress and actor for Desdemona and Iago in the mind-world sequences), but because I think we'd be missing a bet by not keeping our audience guessing until the third act as to what's causing the odd behavior of Coldstone. When Othello is in control, he will remember the events of "Reawakening". Neither Desdemona or Iago will, and they will react very differently to being awakened in the 20th century. When the computer is in control (i.e. when Xanatos is issuing simple and direct commands), Coldstone will respond like an automaton. But in every case, he will speak with Dorn's voice. This does more than present an interesting challenge for Dorn. It keeps our audience guessing as to what is going on.
However, we have no desire to keep our storyboard artists and animators guessing. Please resist the temptation to write the script as a mystery that only reveals things to the reader when the audience discovers the same truth. We need this teleplay to be a blueprint: as clear and straightforward as possible. We need to track who is in control of Coldstone at all times. (And if the above paragraph goes without saying, accept my apologies in advance.)
THEME
The theme of today's adventure is TRUST. And I really want to emphasize it as much as possible. Misplaced trust. Lack of trust. The need for trust. Betrayed trust. All those good trust beats. Goliath puts his trust in Coldstone, who seems to betray it. Othello trusts Iago instead of Desdemona and Goliath. Iago puts his trust in Xanatos. Etc. Etc. Etc. Just at the point where you've put the trust brick through the plate glass window of our audience's attention is the point where we've hit the mark. Anything short of that is liable to get lost in the shuffle of such a complex story. Playing this theme in action and dialogue will help keep us focused.
GOLIATH'S GOAL
Goliath's goal is to restore Coldstone to the clan. Goliath misses his rookery brother. Remember, there are so few gargoyles left, that Goliath would value every one.
THE POLICE TICKING CLOCK
Rather than create a whole new character in charge of the police probe robot, I'd like to use Matt Bluestone. It's a bit of a stretch, I know, but there've been episodes of Hill Street where normal everyday cops were given the opportunity to test and evaluate new hi-tech material to see how it performed in real life situations. I think we can buy into it here as well. Particularly given Matt's personality. He's the kind of guy who would study the manuals and learn how to use this stuff. He's seen Goliath and Coldstone battle in Times Square. And he's an odd combination of compassionate idealist and minor paranoid. He might feel that it's better to know how this stuff works than be at the mercy of it. He could get into it.
And once the VR hook-up was "borrowed", he'd be pretty intent on finding out what was going on. He knows weird shit has been happening in Manhattan, but we've kept him an outsider to the world of the gargoyles. Though he's a decent guy, his ignorance makes him a viable threat to our heroes.
SCIENCE, SORCERY & CYBERSCAPE
In the beat sheet that follows, I've tracked the story in the most basic terms. [The science mostly.] But as you noted in your outline, Coldstone was created from both science and sorcery. So feel free to embellish the basics which I describe here. Particularly in the cyberscape scenes. Here, I've laid out only the bare bones to make sure the story tracks. The cyberspace reality should be fluid and changing, easily influenced by the thoughts, emotions and memories of the players involved. (Particularly Othello, but also Desdemona, Iago and even Xanatos and Goliath if appropriate.)
BEAT SHEET:
ACT ONE - (The idea in this act is to depict Coldstone under the control of each of his four masters (Xanatos, Othello, Desdemona and Iago) in turn, without revealing to the audience or our characters what exactly is happening.)
1. The George Washington Bridge, just before sunset. Coldstone's red robotic eye burns awake in the muck beneath the bridge. Automatic repair work begins. (Remember, the last time we saw him, Demona blew him away with a cannon.)
Intercut between these repairs and brief flashbacks to 10th century Scotland. Fleeting images of Othello and Desdemona in love. Of Iago sewing seeds of jealousy in Othello while Desdemona confides with Goliath. Of Othello attacking Goliath. Of Desdemona coming between them.
Then repairs complete, Coldstone rockets into the night sky. The creature speaks with Coldstone's voice (Michael Dorn) but in a modulated automaton-like fashion. "Repairs complete. New programming downloaded. Initiating Prime Directives."
[Basically Xanatos has broadcast a new binary code and reactivated the creature. It is Xanatos' computer programming which is now in control. Othello is still dormant.]
2. Goldencup Bakery Building, dusk. (Since this is a fictionalized location anyway, let's relocate it to Manhattan, so that we can pretend that it is located within Elisa and Goliath's "beat".) Coldstone [still under complete computer control] raids the government installation. His approach is anything but subtle. Alarms sound.
3. Clock Tower, just after sunset. Elisa's tosses Lex a headset receiver/transmitter. She tells him that she and Matt had been put on alert and now they got the call. Something's going down and they're going to test "the thing". It's clear from dialogue that they've discussed this already, as Lex is very excited to see how and if "the thing" works. Goliath is curious. What are they talking about? A new police robot probe for dealing with high-risk situations. The cops control it by using a virtual reality hook-up. Goliath: "Virtual... Reality?" This he has to see. He and Lex will follow her by air. They promise to stay out of sight.
4. Back at Goldencup, Coldstone moves like a juggernaut towards the computer room. He does not fight against the building's security forces, he simply ignores all opposition. Finally, he plugs into the computer. Suddenly Coldstone seems to have no idea where he is, what he was up to or why everyone is shooting at him.
[Although we shouldn't reveal what's going wrong yet, the computer virus has begun its attack on Coldstone's programming. It causes the creature to freeze up for a moment, and then Othello wakes up within his own body.]
Not knowing how he came into the windowless room, Coldstone doesn't even know the way out of the building. Well, he may not have the answers, but he can do something about his attackers. He begins to fight back. The humans are driven out.
5. Outside, Morgan tells Elisa & Matt that some kind of semi-robotic creature is pinned down inside. Matt is putting on the VR interface visor. Elisa asks him if he's sure he knows what he's doing. Matt says "Trust me, I didn't study all those manuals for nothing." The probe robot moves in. (Obviously, this thing shouldn't come close to being on a par with any of Xanatos' robots, but let's not make it a push-over either.) Lex and Goliath watch from building-tops, despite Elisa's warnings that they could be mistaken for the "creature". Lex is fascinated with the probe. Goliath is more interested in seeing what kind of creature the probe flushes out.
6. Meanwhile, Matt is getting the hang of the probe robot. At first it doesn't seem to be responding well. It freezes up by a computer bank and the visor goes dark for a few seconds, but then it kicks into gear. The robot approaches Coldstone. Matt tries to get Coldstone to surrender, via his connection to the Probe. But Coldstone's still a 10th century warrior at heart. He won't surrender to some Iron Tree stump (or whatever it looks like). So now it's Coldstone vs. the Probe. The Probe gets in a couple good shots, but soon it's on the ropes. Matt whips the visor off, just before the probe is destroyed. The feedback could be dangerous. (But note, the robot should not be blown to bits, just wrecked.) At any rate, the battle has led Coldstone to an exit (or at least to a small window, which he cannons into an exit). He takes off. Spotted by Lex and Goliath who pursue.
7. Goliath, Lex and Coldstone are reunited. (Maybe Coldstone is defensive and antagonistic until he gets a clear look.) They pause on a building top to talk. Goliath is thrilled that Coldstone is still alive. Coldstone is mightily relieved to see a friendly face. Lex is a bit dissatisfied with Coldstone's non-answers to his questions about what he was doing at Goldencup. But Goliath happily invites Coldstone to join the clan at their new home. They take off. Lex glides up close to Goliath and quietly questions the wisdom of taking a former enemy (and a guy who's acting pretty strange) into their home. But Goliath TRUSTS his rookery brother.
8. They arrive at the clock tower. Coldstone is especially thrilled to see his "Old Mentor", Hudson. Coldstone didn't see Hudson in "REAWAKENING" and is thrilled that Hudson survived the centuries. Nearly overcome with emotion Coldstone says there's only one other that he would be happier to see alive. And suddenly, he begins acting very odd. "Where am I? Goliath is that you? What's wrong with my voice?" That kind of stuff.
[The virus has had a systemic effect on Coldstone. It broke Xanatos' pre-programmed control, allowing Othello to regain control of his body. But as the system continues to break down, other voices are coming to the surface. You could call them ghosts, if you want. But they are the personas "haunting" the pieces of Coldstone that were neither Othello nor electronic. The first to surface is Desdemona, summoned to some degree by Othello's intense emotional memory of her. She has not been briefed on her circumstances and is legitimately confused.]
Somewhere in here, Coldstone catches sight of its own reflection, freaks out and takes off. Goliath and Hudson pursue. Brooklyn and Broadway are about to follow, when Lex stops them. Something's wrong inside Coldstone's head. And he thinks he knows how to find out what.
9. Goliath and Hudson catch up to Coldstone (after a chase?) at Ellis Island. As they approach, Coldstone stands very still, out of breath. Stunned by the huge city of Manhattan.
(Note: somewhere in here, Brooklyn glides toward them, spots them and then instead of landing, doubles back.)
Goliath asks "What's wrong?" Coldstone's whole demeanor changes: "What's wrong? Why, nothing. Nothing at all."
[The enormity of events has weakened Desdemona's hold over Coldstone. Iago has stepped in. The difference is that Iago arrives prepared. He has been briefed by the Xanatos programming. More on this later.]
Goliath hesitates for a moment, but in for a penny, in for a pound. He trusts Coldstone, approaches him openly. And Coldstone takes the opportunity to blow Goliath away.
ACT TWO - (In this act, Coldstone's deterioration continues. The personality shifts come quicker and ultimately don't wait for Othello to vacate control.)
10. Hudson moves quickly to Goliath's side. Good news. Coldstone used his concussion cannon, so Goliath is still alive. Of course, that could change. Goliath and Hudson barely avoid a blast from Coldstone's other cannon. The one that could kill them. Goliath can't understand what's going on, but Hudson points out that he's not going to have a chance to figure it out if they don't start fighting back. So it's a fight.
11. Meanwhile at Goldencup, Elisa and Matt are tying up loose ends. Lex arrives, and via his headset hook-up and her hidden microphone and ear piece, he tells her that the creature was Coldstone and that he's acting really weird. She's not surprised. Coldstone had plugged into a computer usually loaded with military defense secrets. But Goldencup had received a tip that there might be trouble. (That's why the Police had the Probe Robot ready.) But Goldencup took extra precautions, the defense computer was loaded with a new computer virus. It's probably destroying Coldstone's internal programming.
Lex takes this all in and then makes his request. He needs Matt's VR visor and the interface off the wrecked Probe Robot.
12. Back to Goliath and Hudson vs. Coldstone. Just as the tables might be turning, Coldstone's demeanor changes again. Why is Goliath attacking him?
[Iago was afraid of losing. During that moment of doubt, Othello regained control. As yet, Othello is unaware of the changes Coldstone's been going through.]
Now at this point, both Goliath and Coldstone [Othello] are pretty suspicious of each other. Goliath doesn't want to be fooled again. Coldstone says he blacked out at the clock tower. Now he's here and fighting with his rookery brother? He's confused and his head hurts....
And now Coldstone goes through some major mood swings.
[Rapid fire changes from Othello to Desdemona to Iago, etc.]
And now things get really strange. Coldstone can't seem to control some of his body parts. He's arguing with himself -- out loud. (Note: all these voices are still Michael Dorn.)
[Though Othello retains partial control, the other personas are bubbling to the surface as the whole system continues to break down. Now for the first time, Othello can hear the other voices, but it is a cacophony that is driving him nuts. I don't think he yet recognizes them specifically as Desdemona or Iago.]
Some of the voices tell him to trust Goliath. Some say destroy him. Some reiterate the events we saw in the flashback.
The "argument" gets more violent. Coldstone holds his head. He demands silence. He begins to fire blindly in all directions as if he could silence the voices that way. He's losing it. Goliath and Hudson dive for cover.
Suddenly Lex dive-bombs in, smashing into Coldstone and, not-so-incidentally, installing the VR interface hook-up. Coldstone collapses to his knees, begging for quiet.
Brooklyn and Broadway come in for a landing behind Lex. (While Lex was getting the equipment from Elisa, they had been scouting for Goliath, Hudson and Coldstone. When Brooklyn spotted them, he doubled back to tell Lex where to find them.)
Goliath tells them that Coldstone is being destroyed from the inside out.
Lex agrees and holds up the visor. If they want to save him, someone's going to have to go inside to do it.
13. Back at Goldencup, Matt tells Elisa that the VR visor and the hook-up have been stolen. Since secretly she took them and gave them to Lex, she shrugs and says they'll turn up. He's sure they will. This was expensive equipment with built-in homing beacons. He shows her a tracking device. They'll find them, all right. And when they do, he won't be half surprised if they find their creature as well.
14. Back on the Island, Lex is not at all thrilled about Goliath's decision to put on the visor himself. Lex feels that he's the best qualified to handle the technology, which is exactly why Goliath needs him on the outside in case something goes wrong. Goliath puts on the visor. An aura of Electricity and Magic surround him and Coldstone.
15. Goliath finds himself in cyber-sorcer-limbo-space . In front of him is a bridge leading over a swirling vortex [the virus] . There's nowhere to go but across. So he goes. There are already holes in the drawbridge. And the holes are getting bigger.
[The virus is now eating away at the VR interface.]
Goliath realizes that he's going to have to fix this problem, and get back across the bridge/interface before there's nothing left of it. On the other side of the bridge rising out of the cyber-mist is a dreamscape version of the 10th century Castle Wyvern. There are three gargoyles (Othello, Desdemona & Iago) frozen in cyber-stone. And half-hidden in the shadows is another familiar face -- Xanatos. He welcomes a shocked Goliath as we fade to black.
ACT THREE - (Revelation and conflict inside the deteriorating mind of Coldstone.)
16. The vortex is everywhere, and the castle is slowly sinking into it. Goliath demands an explanation from Xanatos, who steps out of the shadows and reveals that his body is full of cyber-holes, and is partially gone. Like the bridge, he is being eaten away by the virus. Xanatos explains that he is not in fact Xanatos, but a computer program with a primary objective to enslave Coldstone to Xanatos' grand design. Goliath is determined to stop him.
Suddenly the three gargoyles explode free of their stone shells. Othello again drops to his knees. Still traumatized. Desdemona runs to Goliath. (She was his rookery-sister, and he would remember her and greet her as such.) Now she fills in the blanks. Xanatos used more than one gargoyle to build his creature. They all live on inside it. But Iago is trying to wrest control of the creature from Othello. He's made some kind of deal with the human (i.e. Xanatos). But she won't let it happen. She loves Othello. Goliath must help her save him.
But meanwhile, Iago and Xanatos haven't been wasting any time. They whisper in Othello's ear. "See how Goliath steals your love away? It was the same 1000 years ago and now, once again, they have betrayed your trust."
Othello turns on Goliath. Knocks him back. Basically, tries to drop-kick him into the vortex.
17. On the outside, a catatonic Goliath and Coldstone seem to reel from the blows of invisible foes. Lex doesn't know what to make of the glowing aura that surrounds them. But Hudson recognizes sorcery when he sees it. Coldstone was created by science and sorcery. It was something Lex hadn't counted on. Then, via headset, Elisa alerts Lex that Matt is determined to get to the bottom of this mystery and that he and the authorities are closing in on them by SWAT helicopter and police boat. They better make tracks. Lex tries to take the visor off Goliath but the aura throws him back. It ain't gonna be that easy.
18. Inside, Desdemona tries to separate Goliath and Othello. Othello: "Again, you come to his defense." But she protests. He is forgetting what happened. 1000 years ago he was jealous of Goliath, but needlessly. Her love for him is eternal and true. And Goliath was not and is not his enemy but rather his brother and true friend. He has been tricked again by Iago. It's a crucial moment. Who will Othello trust? Desdemona & Goliath or Iago & the human Xanatos? Othello will trust his heart. He turns to face his true enemies.
But it's too late. The partial Xanatos is already merging with Iago. Together they are transformed into a Cyborg version of Iago, but giant-sized. The giant Cyborg-Iago smashes Goliath and Othello and prepares to throw them over the ramparts and into the vortex. With his other hand, Iago lifts Desdemona to eye level and invites her to merge with him as well. Then they can finally be together as Iago always knew they should be.
19. Outside, Lex stands watch over Coldstone and Goliath, while Hudson, Brooklyn and Broadway try to sabotage Matt's attack force without hurting anyone or being seen. They cut fuel lines on the choppers. Overturn the boats or whatever.
20. Inside, Desdemona tries to hand Cyborg-Iago his head. She's a warrior and will choose her own love. This gives Othello and Goliath the chance to recover. Now it's the three gargoyle heroes against the giant cyborg-monster. Maybe the castle landscape itself begins to change and mutate into a hollow vision of Coldstone. (They are battling for the soul of this creature-amalgam.) Ultimately, (surprise, surprise) it is the giant-cyborg-Iago that is tossed into the vortex.
But time is running out. Othello and Desdemona insist that Goliath return to his own body before the vortex swallows everything. But what about them? They are finally together. If they can halt the vortex, so be it. If they fall to it, so be that. At least they will be together. The bridge appears. Goliath crosses it, just as it collapses into the vortex.
21. Outside, the magical aura fades away just as Broadway, Brooklyn and Hudson return. Authorities are still coming. Couldn't do anymore without revealing themselves. Goliath removes the visor. Lex removes the interface from Coldstone. For the first time since scene one, Coldstone's red robotic eye dims and fades.
22. Matt and Elisa finally arrive on the island. Matt uses his tracking devise to lead them to the equipment. They find the visor and interface on the ground. The area is otherwise deserted. Not a creature in sight.
23. At Xanatos' castle, Xanatos asks Owen if there were any problems. Besides the minor setback of losing Coldstone, no. Xanatos' Scarab Corp. Robotics Division confiscated the remains of the Probe Robot (including the interface and visor) which they had supplied to the police in the first place. Coldstone was the perfect cover for the Probe Robot to get what Xanatos really wanted: the virus. Forget defense secrets, the virus is the deadliest weapon he knows of. It even defeated the mighty Coldstone.
24. Inside the clock tower, Goliath has installed the dormant Coldstone in the corner. Someday, he trusts, his rookery brother and sister may fight their way to the surface. He wants them among friends when they do.
Here's my try for the 14 clans, Greg:
1. Manhattan
2. Avalon
3. London
4. Guatemala
5. Ishimura
6. Mutates/clones
7. New Olympus
8. the Coldtrio
9. India
10. Paris
11. Ireland
12. a Space Station
13. China
14. Camelot
Thanks for your time!
O.K. Once more. "Mutates/Clones" isn't a place. "Coldtrio" isn't a place. I won't say whether the Mutates/Clones and/or the Coldtrio represent an entire clan or not. But we're looking for locations here. LOCATIONS. PLACES named with as much specificity as they've been named in the show.
For example, saying "Japan" would get you only a half point, because we've been more specific. Saying "Ishimura" would get you a full point. Saying "Ishimura, Japan" would get you that same full point, because the "Ishimura" implies the Japan, so you haven't added anything. On the other hand, saying "Guatemala" also gets you a full point, because in that case, we've never been more specific. But saying "Obsidiana, Zafiro, Turquesa, Jade and some eggs" as complete as that is, would get you ZERO points, because they are the Mayan clan's POPULation, not its LOCation.
(Sorry, Ambrosia, I didn't mean to pick on you. I just want to make sure everyone gets the rules. And I don't want to have to explain them again.)
Anyway...
Seven full points. Two half points.
OK I'll try to stick to one subject(the Coldtrio)
#1. In the "High Noon" scene when the Weird Sisters split Desdemona into three entities(or I'm assuming it was them), why didn't Othello/Coldstone react more...adversely?... to it? (I would if I saw *my* SO inexplicably split into threes:-)
#2. What would Demona and Coldfire's relationship be like in modern times? Would Coldfire blame her sister for her current condition?
#3. Was there ever any chance of the Cold Trio regaining flesh-and-blood bodies(either through magic or cloning?)
1. I think he was freaked, but there were more pressing matters at hand.
2. Probably some. But Coldfire's more forgiving than most. Demona would love to bring Coldfire to her way of thinking, but failing that, Coldfire would fall into Demona's ever-increasing enemies list.
3. There's always a chance. But don't hold your breath. (They're much more interesting to me like this.)
What stage was Broadway and Angela's relationship at, when Coldfire and Coldstone borrowed their bodies for that offscreen "reunion"? I remember that when the Colds thanked them for the loan, Angela said, "It was... our pleasure", and Broadway gave a look like he thought, "Wow, really?"
Just beginning. It was a major (if subtle) step in their relationship. It created a connection. Brought Broadway to Angela's special attention.
You said in Dark Ages Demona and Desdemona would be sisters. Do you mean rookery or biological?(It's probably the first but it's worth a try to ask.
Rookery, of course.
When a gargoyle dies, the disposition of his or her body depends only slightly on whether the gargoyle died during the day or at night.
If at night, the corpse is cremated.
If during the day, the rubble is pulverized.
(The notion of pulverizing the undamaged stone corpse of a gargoyle who has died peacefully in his sleep is disturbing. But in fact, gargoyles so rarely die peacefully in their sleep as to make this a non-issue.)
In either case, the cremated or pulverized remains are taken by the gargoyle mourners to the highest point on the local map. A memorial is held. Everyone who wishes to speak of the departed, may. No one, not even the departed's enemies, may be denied a voice. In the end, the mourners spread the remains upon the wind, saying, "Ashes to ashes OR dust to dust. All is one with the wind." (Over time, humans began to use a variation of the same at their funerals.)
The gargoyles then spread their wings, soaring amid the ashes or dust in the hope that part of the departed will stay with them forever.
[Note: There was no one to perform the wind ceremony for Coldstone, Coldfire or Coldsteel. That, and the location's ambient magicks coupled with the trio's own passions, may explain their accessability to Demona's ressurection spell.]
As promised, I'll now attempt to recreate the lost ramble on this episode, which I recently watched again with my family.
For those of you who haven't seen it, I refer you to my recently posted "Memo" on this episode dated back in April of 1994. One thing you might have noticed was that the title of the episode was "The Awakening". In the memo, I suggested what I thought was the more appropriate title "Reawakening". Michael liked that idea but had a suggestion that did it one better. He suggested renaming our pilot five-parter "Awakening". I jumped at the idea. At the time, the five-parter was simply titled "Gargoyles, Part One", "Gargoyles, Part Two", etc. I've never liked that sort of cop out where the pilot's title is simply the series' title. Among other things, it lacks imagination. And it's dishonest. By that standard, "The Journey"'s real title should have been "Gargoyles, Part Sixty-Six". So giving our pilot its own title seemed like a very good idea to me.
But there was another reason why I liked Michael's plan. We were working on our last episode of the first season. It was April of 1994, nearly a year before that episode would air. And a good six months before our premiere. There was no way of knowing whether or not there would ever be a SECOND season. And so to protect myself (emotionally) I had to operate on the assumption that their might not be. Obviously, I wasn't going to do anything apocalyptic. I wanted there to be a second season, so I wanted to leave the doorway open for it. So Michael, Frank, Brynne and I discussed the idea of open-ended closure. If there never was a second season, we'd go out with a bang. We'd give some small amount of closure to our characters. Let them reach a turning point. If this was to be it, we'd have created a little 13 episode novel that brought the Gargoyles from the past to the present and renewed (reawakened) their sense of purpose.
Nice. We'd done the open-ended closure thing (to a lesser degree) at the end of what would eventually be called "Awakening, Part Five" and we'd eventually do it again at the end of "Hunter's Moon, Part Three". And I'd do it for myself in my script for "The Journey".
But there are tricks to achieving a sense of closure. And one of the tricks is to create parallels with the episodes that launched your story.
So by retro-titling our pilot "Awakening" and naming our last ep "RE-Awakening" you can see how we gave ourselves a headstart.
But there were other parallels. The flashback to the past, (which we intentionally built so that it could theoretically be edited into the pilot if necessary) included the Magus at his most pre-Avalon obnoxious. Obviously, that flashback also intro'd pre-Coldstone, but it served the purpose of calling those first couple of flashback episodes clearly into the viewers' minds. (The only problem with that scene, is that Hudson has his sword in a couple of the shots. This is a mistake, as any good Garg fan knows that Hudson first acquired his sword in the battle with the Vikings that took place the following night.)
We also did the big event VILLAIN TEAM-UP thing, bringing Xanatos and Demona back together for the first time since "Awakening, Part Five". (I love the exquisite tension that plays between them. They are both SO using each other. When Demona tells Coldstone that X is her servant, you know that she's partly doing that to circumvent Coldstone's questions, but that she also partly believes that it's true.)
We also used Morgan in Times Square in a very similar way to how he was used in "Awakening, Part One" (reiterated in "Awakening, Part Two").
And then there's that moment near the end where Elisa asks Goliath if there's anything he needs. He answers "A Detective" verbally echoing a key moment from their first meeting in "Awakening, Part Three". That still tickles me.
HOMAGE
Obviously, Frank and I both worked overtime to pay homage to the classic Universal "FRANKENSTEIN" movie. I can say "pay homage" with a straight face (as opposed to rip off) because we so clearly acknowledged the source. Frank's art direction of the lab. X's line: "It's alive! Alive!" (Wonderfully undercut by Jonathan Frakes' reading of the follow-up "I've always wanted to say that.") And the whole idea behind Coldstone. (More on this when I eventually ramble on "Legion".)
Coldstone would be our Frankenstein's monster. Pieced together. Gargoyle & Machine. Reanimated (reawakened). I even love the Coldstone name. And wasn't Michael Dorn's sepulchral tones just perfect for the role?
And Goliath's reaction is so multi-faceted, so Dr. Frankenstein... [You know Goliath's response to his brother here, would be echoed later in his response to his "son" Thailog in "Double Jeopardy". Initially, Goliath's simply repulsed by what he sees, calling Coldstone "an abomination". But given a bit of time, Goliath quickly sees past appearances and attempts whole-heartedly to save his brother. He'll go through the same changes with Thailog. Well... at least we (and Goliath) were consistent.]
CONTINUITY
Snow. It started snowing in "Her Brother's Keeper" and now the city is blanketed in the stuff. (And doesn't Elisa look cute in her scarf and gloves.)
Brooklyn's still pissed off at Demona, specifically and sarcastically asking if she has anymore "spells to save you now". In fact, we wanted to make clear that the spell used to resurrect (reawaken) Coldstone was one of the spells she tore out of the Grimorum in "Temptation". Instead, we cheated a bit. By having her tell Xanatos that the "Cantrips have already been spoken" it saved us the trouble of getting another spell translated into Latin. We were either lazy or short on time or -- most likely -- both.
Following out of "The Edge", and until the helmet comes off at the bridge, the gargs assume that Xanatos in his armor is simply another Steel Clan Robot. The next upgrade. The red model. They have no idea it's actually Xanatos himself in armor.
Small observation: Mirrors don't fare too well in the Gargoyles Universe.
Emotionally, I think the story is very successful at taking the audience through Goliath's spiritual reawakening. I love how he starts out pensive and brooding, listening to that great exchange between the trio and Hudson, realizing that all of them have lost track of their true purpose. Hudson recites the Gargoyle credo merely as an excuse not to go out in the cold. (And I love Thom's reading on Lex's "We don't even live in a castle anymore" response.) The trio are clearly missing the point, but methodical thinker Goliath isn't sure he remembers what the point is either.
And that dovetails SO nicely with Elisa revealing the Police motto "Protect and Serve". The police motto/gargoyle credo connection is so perfect, it struck me even at the time as further proof that we were tapping into something very true in our little fictions. (And don't cops -- for better and sometimes for worse -- act just like a clan?)
From there, Goliath moves past the notion of simply being a reactive character, struggling only to SURVIVE one crisis after another. Now he will strive to be proactive. To rededicate (reawaken) the clan toward their original life purpose. Extending the term "castle" to Manhattan island was always our plan. Even that was intentionally primitive in our view. Goliath doesn't protect New York City. Not all five burroughs anyway. That's beyond his medieval scope at this still-early stage. He can get his head around protecting an island surrounded by water. Not the whole world. But eventually, the plan would include expanding the clan's definition until Castle Earth was the only thing that made sense. Of course, that might not have been fully realized until 2158. But we'd have gotten there. And the World Tour was part of that process too.
PROBLEMS
(Besides Hudson's sword...)
--One line in the ep. that for some reason still makes me cringe is Elisa's "My car's big." It just seems awkward to me. Not sure why.
X & D watch Coldstone's progress from the castle. Almost instantaneously they're at Times Square. We always knew we were just skating by on that.
Goliath & Coldstone go into the water at the bridge TWICE within the span of a couple of minutes or so. The first time, Goliath nearly drowns. The second time he's completely uneffected (physically) by the experience. We get away with it because the second time he's diving in on purpose. But just the fact that we had to dunk them both twice is an awkward construction (and my fault). At least, Goliath looks good with wet hair.
Some really graceful animation here. Goliath has some great moves, and I love that moment when Matt and especially Elisa are diving into the snow, out of the way of the car that Coldstone has just thrown... And speaking of that scene...
TIMES SQUARE SEQUENCE
There's some very interesting, fun stuff here besides what I've already mentioned about it above. A sampling:
Explosions in Bambi. :)
Demona's Clan: Herself, Coldstone, a Steel Clan Robot and Xanatos in Gargoyle Battle Armor. It's so twisted. I love it.
Goliath's very smart here. He doesn't want the fight to take place in public and basically convinces Xanatos to take his side on the issue by flattering him. Goliath refers to Manhattan as "your city" (i.e. Xanatos' city), this despite the obvious fact that Goliath does NOT regard Manhattan as Xanatos' personal property. And Xanatos, usually immune to such stuff, falls for it -- maybe BECAUSE it comes from the ultra-sincere Goliath.
I also am very fond of the Mr. Jaffe book-ends. I think they're a lot of fun. And I love how Matt talks about Mr. Jaffe. It gives us insight into Matt's character, his background, his youth. His empathy for Jaffe really helps humanize him. Matt was always eminently human.
Signing off now...
"Because six monsters just told me to..."
I'm trying something different with this ramble. And because of recent difficulties, I'm going to break the Ramble into two parts. My thoughts on reviewing the episode last Friday night will need to be recreated from scratch. And I'll get to that as soon as I can.
But first I thought you guys might appreciate a little background. What follows is a long memo that I wrote to Story Editor Michael Reaves after receiving the first draft of writer Brynne Chandler Reaves' outline on our thirteenth and final episode of the first season. Pay careful attention to the date of the memo and the title of the episode. I'll comment on both sometime in the next few days...
THE MEMO (unedited):
To: Michael Reaves Date: 4-10-94
From: Greg Weisman Ext: 7436
Re: Notes on "The Awakening" / Outline for 4319-013 of GARGOYLES
GENERAL NOTES
This is a tough one, because in this episode, we have a very specific mission, which is to remind Goliath of his. In order to accomplish this, I'd like to focus both our efforts and Goliath's soul-searching. These aren't simple concepts but I'm gonna try and go through them in baby steps. This is less for our benefit than for the benefit of our audience & Goliath. (Remember, Goliath is a determined thinker if not a quick one.)
Goliath spends the episode searching for the true meaning behind the gargoyle motto, "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."
We begin by defining our terms. Goliath first needs to understand the following equation: "Castle = Home = Family = Community". He more or less learned the Castle through Family section in "ENTER MACBETH", but we'll need to reiterate the lesson in some way for our audience. Then we need to take him the final step from Family to Community.
After that (or perhaps simultaneously), he needs to decide on what is meant by "protect". Protect what? The physical structure he lives in? No. Again, Home leads into Family which leads into Community.
Protect why? To survive in a hostile environment? Ultimately and by the end of the episode Goliath decides/remembers that to survive is not enough. Coldstone and Demona provide cautionary proof; both of them are abominations of a sort, created in the name of "Survival". Survival ("breathing the air") is important, but clearly survival isn't enough. Goliath and his clan need purpose. They need to return to the mission: Protect the castle (i.e. protect the community).
This dovetails nicely w/Elisa's mission as a cop: "To protect and serve." And leaves us, at the end of our first season, with a more pro-active group of heroes.
SPECIFIC NOTES
Just a few specifics that aren't covered in the beat outline that follows.
Page 1.
--The trio saw snow last episode. Let's make the winter weather the backdrop to the action. Not part of the story.
--I don't think we want to light any fires in the clock tower.
Page 2.
--We no longer need Madame Serena in this story. Plus she adds another new element to a pretty full plate.
--Remember this is one of the spells that Demona ripped from the Grimorum back in "Temptation".
Page 3.
--Coldstone wouldn't name himself. It's not gargoylean thing to do. And he hasn't been awake long enough to know he needs a name. Let Demona do it.
Page 7
--I think we can fit the action of this story into one night, so this is kind of a moot point, but I don't think Demona would risk sleeping as stone in Xanatos' castle. She doesn't trust anyone that much.
--Let's not overplay Matt's conspiracy fettish. It's o.k., but we don't want him to come off as a "babbling".
Page 11
--Remember, unless we're getting biblical here, Gargoyles weren't "created". They have very strong territorial and protective instincts. These instincts are as strong as their survival instinct. But I want to make sure we don't imply that they were magically created by someone or something who gave them a mission.
Finally, if I could recommend a title change... how about "Re-Awakening" instead of "The Awakening". I think it's a bit more appropriate all the way around.
ACT ONE
1. Prologue #1 - Present Day Manhattan - All-Nite Grocery - Winter Night
--It's snowing in Manhattan and will continue to snow until the last scene.
--A lone thief holds up the owner of a small and otherwise empty All-Nite grocery store.
--Thief tells the owner: "I guess we just live in dangerous times.
2. Prologue#2 - Flashback to 994 A.D. Scotland - Castle Wyvern - Night
(Note this scene happened off-camera during part one of the five-parter, somewhere around page 24 of script #4319-001.)
--Goliath informs Hudson that they must leave to harry the vikings far away.
--He'll need Hudson's tracking skills.
--Demona and "pre-Coldstone" gargoyle (Goliath's rookery brother) are also present.
--Magus comes thru and says or does something obnoxious.
--Demona, secretly desperate for Goliath to bring them all along, asks why they bother protecting the human's castle at all?
--Pre-Coldstone agrees: "Let them keep the castle, we can survive anywhere."
--(We see he is of a semi-simlar mind-set to Demona, which explains why she uses him 1000 years later for Coldstone.)
--Hudson firmly states the gargoyle mission statement: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..."
--Goliath instructs his rookery brother to stay w/Demona and protect.
3. Present Day - Winter - Clock Tower - Night
--Goliath's been daydreaming (at night) about old memories.
--Trio are going to a movie; they invite Hudson along.
--Hudson's a couch potato. He'll wait to see it on cable. Besides he's got to guard their home.
--Trio: We live over a police station. What could happen? We don't have to guard the place every night.
--Hudson tosses off gargoyle truism: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..." (But that's just an excuse to be left alone.)
--Goliath reacts silently, realizing their mission has lost meaning for the gargoyles, even Hudson. Maybe even himself.
--Trio leaves ("We don't even live in a castle anymore...")
--As Elisa enters.
--She wants to know how gargoyles are "surviving" the cold weather.
--G says they're fairly immune... to the elements.
--Elisa starts to leave for her shift w/offhand remark: "Time to do a little of the old 'Protect and Serve'."
--G stops her to find out what she means.
--Police motto.
--But what does it mean? Protect who?
--(Maybe Elisa can get us from Castle to Family here.)
--Goliath decides to accompany Elisa on the night shift.
--Which is a bit problematic now that she has a partner.
4. Castle
--Demona has talked a reluctant Xanatos into another attempt to destroy Goliath.
--Xanatos & Demona use science & sorcery to revive creature made from cybernetics and mismatched gargoyle parts. (The head is that of Goliath's rookery brother, our pre-Coldstone, augmented by cybernetic-eye & etc.)
--Demona names him Coldstone.
(--Perhaps she represents Xanatos as her servant. Perhaps he allows it.)
(--Note: in this episode, I think we want to sense a tension between X & D, but I don't think we want to bust them up here. It's distracting and we have enough to deal with.)
--Coldstone's confused. Last thing he remembers is Goliath & Hudson leaving the castle. Then came sunrise and oblivion.
--Demona: "Goliath abandoned us to the mercy of humans."
--He has been seduced by their beliefs.
--It is because of him that you look like this....
--It's mirror time.
--Does audience see him or do we save that revelation?
5. Manhattan Streets / All-Nite Grocery / Rooftop across the street.
--Elisa & Matt are driving in her car.
--Goliath is following them from above. (She's given him a walkie-talkie or headset or something. She's basically wearing a wire so that he can be on her shift with her.)
--They investigate All-Nite grocery store robbery from scene 1. (Not a crime in progress. Remember, they are detectives, not beat cops.)
--While Matt questions the owner...
--Goliath, watching from above, is able to talk quietly w/Elisa.
--We get from Family to Community.
--Elisa: No one wants to live a prisoner of their own castle anymore. We live in a community. The whole community needs to work together...
--G: "To survive." (He still hasn't gotten it yet.)
--Radio call: "All available units."
6. Times Square.
--That tortured soul, Coldstone, is going bonkers.
--(He hated "Cats". No, wait... he hates humans.)
--(Physical strength only. No robotic weaponry yet.)
--Morgan and other cops are just securing the perimeter, keeping people clear.
--From a distance, Goliath surmises another Xanatos robot ploy. (He sees the occasional metallic glint. The rest is in shadow.) He won't be dragged into another of Xanatos' schemes.
--Elisa & Matt don't have that luxury. They approach the thing. Tell it to cease and desist, etc.
--Coldstone prepares to throw a small car at them or something.
--As Goliath reacts, we fade out.
ACT TWO
7. Times Square.
--With Elisa endangered, Goliath doesn't hesitate to intervene and save her and a flabergasted Matt.
--Now Coldstone really goes ballistic. Literally. Barrel rises from robotic arm and fires.
--Goliath dodges or maybe he is hit, but Coldstone is too shocked to notice. --He didn't know he could do that.
--(Xanatos had a pre-programmed battle mode built-into his circuitry.)
--While C is figuring this out, Goliath comes in and smashes him.
--It's only in close that Goliath realizes he's not fighting a robot.
--(Is this the audience's first full look at Coldstone too??)
--And it's only now that Coldstone recognizes G.
--But all this convinces Coldstone that Demona was telling the truth.
--Goliath is attacking his own rookery brother to defend a human.
--But Goliath is out-matched, and soon losing.
8. Inside Orpheum Theatre (Times Square).
--Trio are watching movie from balcony.
--(As Broadway did in "Deadly Force").
-- "There sure are an awful lot of explosions in this movie."
--But are those explosions coming from outside?
--Suddenly movie stops. House lights come up.
--On ground level, Morgan is ushering people out the back entrance, calmly and for their own safety.
--Trio exit to see what's going on.
9. Times Square.
--Trio arrive in time to save Goliath from Coldstone.
--Coldstone surrounded by all four gargoyles.
--Looks like the tide of battle might have shifted.
--We see gargoyles thru Coldstone's robot POV.
10. Castle.
--Matchcut to Xanatos office monitor.
--Seems he gets a direct feed on whatever Coldstone sees or hears.
--X to D: Looks like sonny-boy's having trouble making friends.
--(No indication that they're going to help yet.)
11. Times Square.
--Goliath does not attack; he's still trying to put everything together.
--Could this abomination really be his rookery brother?
--At first, Goliath doesn't talk to Coldstone, rather he speaks about "it".
--Which of course doesn't endear him to Coldy one bit.
--G tries a kinder, gentler approach.
--Might even be starting to reach him.
--G: What happened to you, pal?
--From off-screen Demona says: "We did."
--Goliath, trio and Coldstone turn to see Demona, Xanatos in Gargoyle armor and a Steel Clan Robot. Fade to black.
ACT THREE
12. Times Square.
--Stand-off.
--Demona: If you're going to bring your whole clan, you can't expect me not to bring mine.
--G: You call that a clan?
--Coldstone is torn, confused. What should he do?
--Demona: "Destroy Goliath. Destroy him, and we survive."
--Coldstone looks down at his cobbled-together form: "Is this survival?"
--Demona tells him not to be fooled by appearance.
--Goliath and the others have been corrupted by humans.
--"We are the only real gargoyles left."
--Travis Marshall pulls up in newsvan.
--While cameraman is setting up, Elisa uses "wire" to warn Goliath.
--Goliath appeals to Xanatos
--(Probably doesn't yet know that Xanatos IS one of the robots.)
--(G thinks he's talking by radio-link via the robots.)
--G: It's your city, X, shouldn't we reconvene someplace less fragile.
--Demona doesn't like the idea, but Xanatos insists.
--(She's not ready to sever their partnership yet).
--Xanatos quietly names a spot that only Goliath (and Elisa via their wire) can hear.
--The eight combatants fly off, severally.
--Marshall only gets the tail end on camera.
13. Clock Tower.
--Hudson sees Marshall's report on t.v.
--Discusses dilemma (theoretically w/Bronx, but he's really talking to himself).
--Goliath told them to stay and guard the tower.
--What should he do?
14. George Washington Bridge.
(Or whatever bridge is closest to Times Square.)
--Your basic battle royale...on the bridge, in the air. Among other things...
--Brooklyn goes after Demona.
--He's still mad at her from "Temptation."
--Which allows Goliath and Coldstone to continue their face-off.
--The Steel Clan robot is destroyed.
--Xanatos is forced to unmask.
--But generally, the bad guys are winning, if barely.
--Coldstone & Goliath plunge into the icy river.
15. The River.
--Coldstone's got a built-in breathing apparatus that extends over his mouth and nose automatically.
--As they struggle underwater, Goliath's losing air and consciousness.
--G. hears Hudson's voice: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."
--Suddenly, Goliath is pulled out of the water... by Coldstone.
16. An Ice flow.
--As G. gasps for breath he sees that a battered Demona and Xan have the drop on an even more battered Trio. The fight is over; the good guys lost.
--Demona's glad Coldstone saved G. for her to finish off.
--But Coldstone wants some answers first.
--Coldstone: "You said if Goliath dies. We would survive."
--Again, he indicates himself: "Is that all there is... surviving?"
--Demona's almost tender with him, but what she says is something like: "That's all that counts."
--But Goliath has finally figured it out. Surviving is not enough. To merely survive at all costs is not the gargoyle way. Gargoyles protect the way gargoyles breathe. To forget that leads to true corruption. Not the corruption of humans, or even Coldstone's metallic corruption. But the bitter fanaticism of Demona's corrupt soul. Or something like that.
--Of course, Demona's not just gonna sit there and let Goliath speechify forever.
--She takes aim.
--Coldstone leaps between them, takes the blast and is blown off the ice into the water. He does not resurface.
--Goliath immediately dives in after his brother.
--Demona fires into the water at both of them.
--She is furious at Coldstone's betrayal.
--Trio try to take some advantage of situation, but Xanatos won't allow it.
--Suddenly, the ice seems to be hit from above by a cannonball that sends everyone reeling.
--That was no cannonball that was Bronx. Hudson dropped him from on high.
--Again, the tide has turned. And it's all Xanatos can do to grab Demona and rocket her out of there.
--Goliath comes up for air. There's no sign of Coldstone.
--Goliath has lost his only surviving brother.
17. Epilogue #1 - Bridge.
--The six gargoyles are climbing back up the bridge. (They'll need some height to glide home.)
--Hudson apologizes for abandoning their home, the clock tower.
--Goliath points toward Manhattan and says something like: "The clock tower is where we sleep. But our home is that island. Our castle is Manhattan. And gargoyles always protect their castle... and anyone, human or gargoyle who resides within."
--Elisa pulls up in her car. It took her awhile to get clear of Matt.
--Are they o.k.? Do they need anything?
--Goliath: "I need a detective."
18. Epilogue #2 - All-Nite Grocery - Dawn.
--The thief from scene 1 comes in again.
--The owner is scared at first but the thief is very contrite.
--He gives back all the money and asks the owner to call the police so that he can turn himself in.
--When the flabbergasted owner asks why, the frightened thief replies: "Six monsters and a cop told me to."
19. Rooftop across the street from the All-Nite Grocery - Morning.
--In the cold early morning wind amid hazy sunlight, Elisa stands on the roof across the street from the grocery store amid six horrific stone gargoyles.
--Elisa watches, as Morgan (at the end of his shift) takes the thief away in his squad car.
--Elisa: "Well, it's a start. Xanatos, Demona, you two are next."
--The sun breaks through the clouds, shining brightly on a beautiful winter's day in Manhattan.
--E: "You know, guys, the city feels safer already."
--She leaves them there to sleep and heads home after a long night.
--FADE.
End of memo. My real Ramble should come soon.
Who is Desdemona and Iago? Why are desdemona's wings weird looking like she has four of them?
You seem to know the answer to your first question.
Desdemona and Iago were off-camera names that we gave to Coldfire and Coldsteel, i.e. Coldstone's other two personalities, the other gargoyles that were used to make up his body.
And Desdemona simply has a different wing-type than most of the others. As does Lex. And Griff. Etc.
I believe you've said that Gabriel will learn he's Coldstone and Coldfire's son (and I think vice-versa as well). To what extent will he *care* about this? As much as Angela cared about her own parentage? Less so? Will he be completely uninterested, considering only the Princess/Guardian/Magus to be his real parents?
I think he'd care more than, say Broadway. Probably not as much as Angela. The difference is that Coldstone and Coldfire wouldn't care at all. That is, they'd be thrilled that all their children survived. To them, Angela is as much a daughter as Gabriel is a son. They were too distracted to deal with that in Possessions. But if I had been able to get back to that....
In the Dark Ages would Demona and Desdemona be good friends?
Yes. Sisters.
What body parts on Coldstone our Desdemona's and Iago's?
Most of Coldstone is Othello. But there's a thigh that belongs to Iago, and a forearm that was Desdemona's.
Or put another way...
I don't know. And it's too late for me to care.
I did care originally, but we had to design Coldstone and Othello for the first season, and there wasn't time to design Desdemona or Iago, just so that we could divide up their parts.
Concerning the Coldtrio, are they now immortal due to their new bodies? I mean, obviously if their bodies were destroyed, they'd die, but if they weren't, would they just keep living and not age or die of natural causes?
Also, I assume it's been told by now that Gabriel is supposed to be Coldstone and Desdemona's son. If the show had gone on, or if it was resumed, would they have ever met? If so, how would Gabriel react to the robotic state of his parents? (and I feel Gabriel would think of them as his 'parents', since Angela has already shown this trait.)
1. Yeah, what you said.
2. Eventually, but I haven't thought through that encounter yet, so I don't have any details to reveal.
Mr. Weisman,
In "Grief," Anubis states that that which is dead and gone cannot be brought back. Why, then, was Demona able to bring the spirit of Coldstone (and those of Coldfire and Coldsteel) back from the dead? Was Anubis trying to say that he is under some sort of magical restriction similar to Oberon's law of non-interferece that prevents him from bringing back the dead, or something else entirely?
P.S. I wanted to thank you for answering my question regarding Hudson's feelings about Goliath and Elisa. Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that Hudson wasn't open-minded. I just remembered that you had stated a long time ago (I think in your rambling about gargs and sex) that you saw Hudson as being the one who would still hold on to the tradition of only taking one mate.
Anubis had a very strict policy. And he had the integrity to stick to it.
(And thanks for the clarification on Hudson. I just wish you had posted the Hudson P.S. seperately. I'd like to have on-going dialogue as part of ASK GREG. But when you attach a piece of an unrelated discussion to a question on a different topic, it makes archiving all this stuff a disaster.)
At the Gathering you showed the Dark Ages pitch showing that Iago would've been allied with the Archmage. We know that Demona was his apprentace, but what does Iago have to offer him?
Cunning.
Well, I've been reading over the questions and responses already posted, and they're inspiring questions of their own. I'll try to separate my posts into topics. And thanks again for doing this for us- you're keeping your series alive with the fans.
1. How did we learn that Hudson was Broadway's father? Does Hudson know this, and if so, how did he find out?
2. You didn't want to say whether the Mutates' children would be mutated themselves. Are they still *able* to have children at all?
3. Did Coldstone's son have a name?
Calling this one topic is kind of a stretch, but you squeeked by...
1. I don't know that anyone inside the world of the series cares about this detail. Hudson is one of Broadway's many Clan Fathers. For that matter, Brooklyn and Lex would feel the same way. I think fandom learned that Hudson was Broadway's biological father from me. It was just something that always seemed right to me.
2. I'm not ruling it out.
3. If you mean his biological son, that's Gabriel.
Dear Greg,
1) where did you get the idea of gargoyles ?
2)What happened to galiaith's brother; will they ever see each other again?
3)Do the gargoyles find out who Mcbeth is?
1. I've answered this before. Check the archives.
2. If you mean Coldstone, then yes, I think they will.
3. Questions on separate topics need to be submitted on separate posts.
Thanks Greg for ansering my quistions
If the Dark ages was ever made would we see alot of Hudson's rookery mates. And Goliaths and Demonas rookery sibblings and also the trio rookery sibblings. And also would some of them been some of the main chacters?
Mates, plural?
Goliath, Demona, Desdemona, Iago and Othello would all have been major characters. Along with Hudson.
The Trio would have been supporting character. I'm not saying we wouldn't have seen more of their siblings, but that age group would not have been the focus.
I'm sure we'd have met other gargoyles eventually.
Hey Greg, SJ here. Just a few questions:
1. Are the Weird Sisters three separate beings, or are they merely one entity in three forms?
2. Had the series continued, would you have included any exposure to more "races" of beings on Earth? We already experienced one possible "fourth race", the New Olympians, and I was wondering if you planned to build upon the possibility of other sentient life beyond the "big three".
3. We know that in the Gargoyle universe, some form of human afterlife exists (as can be seen by Hakon and the Captain's ghosts). Do the gargoyles have some form of an afterlife? It would seem so, seeing as Coldstone was supposed to be three souls trapped in one body.
4. In order to cross-breed with humans and/or gargoyles, do fae have to legitimitally shape-shift themselves into completely human or gargoyle forms, or is the procreation process aided by magic?
5. Was Demona involved in any of the following: The Spanish Inquisition, the French Revolution, the American Revolution, the Civil War, and Vietnam?
6. Also, if you would, please answer these questions about Dr. Sevarius:
a.) Does Sevarius have any family (beyond the clones)? You know, such as a wife, children, or even a brother or sister? Also, did you ever think about incorporating any of his relatives into a story?
b.) Exactly what is Sevarius' ancestral background? By that I mean, where does he come from, what is his place of birth, homeland, etc.?
c.) Where did he receive his education and medical training?
d.) About what is his age? A fairly approximate age would be most appreciated.
e.) With his sort of "Mengele"-esque techniques, is he a international (or at least U.S.) fugitive because of these inhumane practices?
Well, I've wasted enough of your time. Thanks!!!
Glitcheriffic, I answered these yesterday, but with the server problems the answers were lost. So here I go again.
1. Yes.
2. Depends what you mean.
3. You answered your own question, to the extent you asked one.
4. Yes. (Don't you love either/or questions?)
5. Yes.
6a. Don't know.
6b. Haven't decided.
6c. Ditto.
6d. Late forties.
6e. I don't think his work is that well known.
7-20-99
Ok.. WOW.. i have yet more... i'm comin' up royal tonight...
1a)In order to make Cold Stone, didn't Demona need at least some part of his original stone body (The pieces that were left after he was killed)?
1b) If she did need some parts of his original body, how'd she get them? Did she save some of him for a thousand years or did Xanatos have some saved parts of him? I can't imagine she could go back and gather up the pieces, because first of all how would she get back to Europe and secondly wouldn't erosion have kicked in after 1000 years?(If this doesn't make perfect sense i really apologize, but it makes sense in my head)
2) Goliath, Brooklyn, Lex, Bronx, and Broadway were in stone sleep for 1000 years.. why didn't any erosion or weathering occur on them even though the castle itself eroded? Is it because in reality these Gargoyles were living beings or did it have something to do with the magic involved in their being stone for 1000 years?
1a. Yes.
1b. Xanatos collected them.
2. They weren't dead. They were asleep. Solar energy allowed for ongoing replenishment. But I wouldn't recommend the experience.
7-13-99
Hello greg this is my first time I been in asked you quistions so here they are
1) If the Timedancer series was ever made what would Brooklyn's mate look like?
2) If Pendragon was made would Author and Griff find any other Gargoyle Clans when they were looking for Merlin? And also would would Griff ever get a mate. Would she be in Griff's Clan or another?
3) Would Coldstone and Coldfire ever find out thst they have a son on Avolon?
4) In the episode Awakning part 2 Owen said that the locile claim that casle Wyvern is haunted. Was it haunted by the Massacreed Clan members?
Hey Lawrence, welcome...
1. I'm not an artist. So although, I have some vague ideas, I intentionally don't want to nail that down until either (a) the time came for collaboration with an artist or (b) it became clear that the medium where the character was going to be introduced was purely a prose one.
2. Maybe, yes and I'm not sure what you mean.
3. Yes.
4. Mostly by Hakon and the Captain.
Glad to see AskGreg is back up.
1. Does Demona know about the Illuminati Society?
2. Does the Illuminati Society know about Demona?
3. Why exactly did you decide that Jackal and Hyena would become Cyborgs and that Wolf would become a Mutate? Why specifically that combination instead visa versa?
4. How long has Nokkar's intergalactic war been going on?
5. What happened to the helicopter Lexington fixed in HER BROTHERS KEEPER?
6. You said that New Olympians generally live for 13-250 years. So would any of the New Olympians we know be alive and around in 2158?
7. How does the Avalon Clan feel about Demona and Macbeth? (They must know those two weren't acting under their own will during the fight with the Archmage but to someone who they injured that little bit of information might not exactly displace anger at being injured.)
8. After all these years, does Macbeth know that Demona was listioning outside his window when Bodhe suggested betraying her clan to the English?
9. What are the Mutates feelings towards Alex Xanatos?
10. Why didn't Xanatos try to make Coldfire and Clodsteel look more "alive"; meaning why not slap some fake flesh on them like he did for Cyoti 1.0?
11. In POSSESSION, why wasn't Angela shocked at seeing Coldstone? After all when Goliath first saw him, he called him an abomination.
12. What was Goliath thinking in SANCTUARY and MARK OF THE PANTHER when he kept tellin Angela that she has many mothers and fathers? Who was he thinking of? There's only him, Hudson, Coldstone, Demona, and the Trio at that point. Did he seriously expect the Trio to think of Anglea as their daughter?
13. In 2158, how do you picture the world political status? Are there still seperate countries for example?
14. What is the legal status of Gargoyles in 2158?
15. What is Renard's opinion of Petros Xanatos?
1. Yes.
2. Quite a bit.
3. A lot had to do with what felt right for the characters I guess. Wolf was very animalistic and hostile. Seemed perfect to make him a genetic werewolf. Jackal & Hyena were just nuts. A sociopath and a psychopath. It felt right that they would take things to the ultimate extreme.
4. Quite some time, young feller.
5. Kenner decided not to make a toy out of it.
6. That wasn't my plan.
7. Indiviuals all react differently. I'm not going to give you thirty-six individual responses.
8. I think he figured it out that night on Lunfanan Hill.
9. Which Mutate?
10. Fake gargoyle flesh? What would be the point?
11. Well, the truth here is that Angela had seen him already in the Himalayas. At least that had been my plan if the comic book hadn't been cancelled.
12. He was trying to instill in her the idea that her preoccupation with her biological parentage was an unhealthy human notion. (And since he knew Demona was her biological mother, you can see where his fear was coming from.) Of course, he lost the forest for the trees as Diane Maza pointed out in "Mark". He tried to make up for it later.
13. Yes and no.
14. Protected minority.
15. They barely know each other. And on some level, I think they'd get along, except for one thing... Renard hates David. And though Petros doesn't approve of much of his son's actions, I can't see him standing calmly by while someone else berates his son. Blood. Whatchagonnado?