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Oberon writes...

In the Gargoyle Universe are Prospero, Caliban, Ariel, and Miranda still alive? Secorax? Setebose?
What race is Caliban?

Greg responds...

I'm not revealing any of this at this time.

Response recorded on March 01, 2001

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Ray Kremer writes...

All the rambles on City of Stone recently brought back some memories. While that season was airing I was in High school, and the English Class that semester was British Literature. Beowulf, Canterbury Tales, and of course Shakespere. We did the Scottish play not too long after CoS aired and when I was reading the book the voice of John Rhys-Davies always found its way into my head.

The classroom also had a big poster of the complete family tree of the royalty of the British Isles. You can imagine how much fun it was to look back to 11th century Scotland and find the names of Gillecomgain, Gruoch, and Luoch right there with MacBeth, Duncan, and Malcom Cannmore.

Then when we got to Arthurian Legend I asked the teacher what the significance of Avalon was besides being Arthur's final resting place, half expecting to hear it was the traditional home of the fairy kingdom. (Never could be too sure what was real, what you were making up, and what was some of both.)

Greg responds...

It was (in many works) the traditional home of the fairy kingdom. I wasn't making that up.

Response recorded on March 01, 2001

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Bruno writes...

Hi, Greg,

In your "Vows" ramble, you asked from were came "more's the pity".

Well, I was reading Richard III and found it in the scene 1, act 1: Hastings and Gloucester are talkin about Hastings being freed from the tower, and Clarence throwed there:

HASTINGS
MORE PITY that the eagle should be mew'd,
While kites and buzzards prey at liberty.

Greg responds...

Yeah. But is that the original? And how and when did it take the current form?

Response recorded on February 15, 2001

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LSZ writes...

Would Caliban appear in any series besides Timedancer?

Greg responds...

Yes.

Response recorded on January 26, 2001

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Dannielle writes...

what specifically does the word exeunt mean in macbeth?

Greg responds...

It means "exit". But for multiple people.

I exit.
You exit.
He exits.
She exits.
It exits.
We exeunt.
They exeunt.

(Although, the teacher in me wanted to answer: "Hey, Danielle, LOOK IT UP in a dictionary." It's there in Webster's New Collegiate. I just checked. And you would have gotten the answer faster.)

Response recorded on January 17, 2001

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Heather N. Allen writes...

Salutations! (hmm, I ALWAYS think of "Charlotte's Web" whenever I see that...)

Anyway, just wanted to share a little testimony with you and all the kiddies out there about NOT doing your research:

See, I am a major Gargoyles fan (well, that's a given). And right now, in my senior lit class, we are reading Shakespeare's "Macbeth". Well, of course I thought I was going to be all smart and show everyone up with my (so I thought) vast knowledge on everyone's favorite immortal Scotsman. Now mind you, I didn't think the REAL Macbeth was still alive running around chasing after gargoyles and ancient swords (I'm not THAT dense!), but I basically thought he was a not-so-bad guy who was king somewhere in Scotland's history. Needless to say I was shocked to find that the play's Macbeth is (in a way) truly villainous! The play's Lady Macbeth is fiendish, as well! And the play's Duncan is a hapless, good-intentioned king who was unjustly murdered! And to think, if I had raised my hand to explain Macbeth to the class just a few minutes sooner, I'd have been made a fool of in front of my peers! (Well, Greg, at least now I understand better than most what you meant when you said the Gargs Universe Macbeth would be amused by the Shakespearean version of himself...)

The moral of our story--you've got library cards, kids: USE THEM. And if you don't, then at least keep quiet until AFTER the introduction to the story is over when YOUR lit class starts reading Shakespeare.

~H\A~
(who DID finish her abandoned "A Midsummer Night's Dream" due to Gargoyles ;)

Greg responds...

Heather,

Do keep in mind that aside from the gargoyles, immortality and magic, that our Macbeth was in fact more historically accurate than Shakespeare's. (I'm not saying better, by any means, just truer to history as we know it.)

Response recorded on December 21, 2000

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Chapter XXI: "Vows"

Written by Shari Goodhartz
Michael Reaves, Story Editor

Benny: "But Daddy, when it's dark they get alive. But when it's light, the get frozen like a statue."

Last night, the kids, my sister, my wife and I all watched "Vows" together. Time to ramble.

Back to the Golden Cup Bakery Building. As I noted in the previously posted memo about this episode, I wanted a little opening battle, but I didn't want to waste time in a tight, packed script explaining how this came about. It does beg the question though. Assume that X contacted Elisa. She told Goliath. He went ALONE? His friends allowed this? Hmmm.

Xanatos knows from the letter to himself what to do, but I sometimes wonder just how detailed the letter was. I like to think it was fairly sketchy. That exactly HOW Xanatos got Goliath to come was his own machinations. Otherwise, though he takes the credit for the letter, the truth is that the plan itself wasn't his idea. He got the idea from the letter. And he wrote the letter based on what he had done, which he had gotten from the letter. None of this is really his to own, though he does claim ownership. So I like to think that at least some of the details were X's. For example, X knows what G will respond to, i.e. Demona.

Hudson, on hearing about the wedding, suddenly makes the connection to the long ago incident when he met the Goliath from the future. So he's strangely ambivalent. Elisa on the other hand, seems flat out jealous to me. After the events of "The Mirror" and "Eye of the Beholder", she's much more aware and focused on her feelings for Goliath. SHE DOES NOT WANT TO ACT ON THOSE FEELINGS. At this time, she thinks it's impossible. But that doesn't change how she feels. And now, she's jealous. Goliath's feelings for Elisa are just as intense, but so are his feelings for the "Angel" of his youth. He HAS to give it one last chance. (And this will be the last chance. The final nail in the coffin of his and Demona's "marriage".) Brooklyn, meanwhile, is just knee-jerk against anything involving Demona.

PETROS XANATOS is introduced. Again, I wonder why he was invited. Was he also included in the letter? Or did Xanatos invite him to prove something to his father. Is X that needy? Or did X invite him to the wedding, because of course he'd invite his father to his wedding, and his already planned "honeymoon" to 975 shouldn't alter his decorum. Perhaps he's mildly surprised his father winds up coming along? Anyway, Petros was a fun character. A tough hard physical man. With morals. A great contrast to the son. I knew even then that we'd give Petros and David an arc to their relationship, (one that eventually would culminate in Gathering2).

"Oh, reason not the need." A little King Lear is always nice. And I love Petros' attitude on the line, "And the armor?" I mean what would you say to your son if you saw him dressed like that? I'd like to know how many people had sort of forgotten that X was even wearing armor (we're so used to it) until Petros made an issue of it?

I love all the irony in the dialogue between Petros and David. David knows what he's planning. He must be smiling when Petros says "I'd like to get my hands on the man who gave you that coin." And when David says, "Someday, I'll prove to you that I'm a self-made man," he must really be patting himself on the back.

I love the voice work of Keith and Marina when doing their teen-age counterparts. So subtle, yet it's always clear which Goliath and Demona is talking at any given moment.

CONTINUITY:
Gotta love that storage room in the clock tower. The Eye of Odin, the Grimorum, half the Phoenix Gate, and, oh, yes, a comatose Coldstone. By the way, despite what the memo said, I think generally, Goliath carried that Gate in the pouch attached to his belt. Not behind some brick. We hadn't actually come up with that pouch yet, not until the World Tour. But using RetCon, I think that's where he kept it until they moved to the clock tower and Demona tried to kill him, Hudson and Elisa in "Long Way to Morning".

One interesting thing: this is the first episode where we actually CONFIRM that the ILLUMINATI does exist. Matt's mentioned it. Even chased it in SILVER FALCON, but we've never been shown any proof of it's existence until now. Was anyone surprised by that?

Judge Roebling was interesting in theory, though not so much in the episode. I'd like to do more with him some day. I also thought that it was interesting that despite seeing the tape of the Gargoyles in advance. And not reacting outwardly when he saw Goliath, he still gasps when Demona enters. What is it about her? When she entered, Benny turned to me and said: "She's queen of the Gargoyles." Oh. So that's it.

(And everytime Xanatos and Fox are on screen together, Benny likes to point out that he and Erin dressed up as them at the last Gathering. "That's me. That's you, Erin.")

To some extent, X must have filled D in on his plan. I love her "acting" when she enters and gives her bitter "excuse" for being there to Goliath. She's playing hard to get!

I love Petros: "Unnacceptable." He's still trying to teach David the error of his ways.

The Gate itself is very idiosyncratic. It's size, the size of its portal, and the duration the portal stays open seems to vary not just from episode to episode but from scene to scene. Sometimes it annoys me, like when Princess Elena removes the Gate from her sleeve, and suddenly it's bigger than her hand. But now I'm just amused by it. Again, if you think of it as a steam valve for the timestream, it explains a lot.

I love the little sound that Paca put in when the two pieces of the Gate first come together. What a tip-off that was, yet it's subtle. Did anyone think about the significance of the talisman that Demona had shared with Goliath before she started speaking in Latin and flames appeared out of nowhere?

It was hard to make people understand the time loop a bit. But it seemed really hard to make them see why I kept wanting to repeat scenes to show the connective tissue. We had to squeeze in Owen's "Honeymoon" line the second time. No one left space for it.

For the first of many times in the series, someone (X) says the line: "It's not where, it's when". (Erin: "I know when.")

I love X & Fox's relationship. "Having fun." "A marvelous time." Great stuff.

Hudson gets a close look at 1995 Goliath and immediately sees the age and wear and tear on the guy. (I love the shot of Goliath gagging him.) That says a lot for Hudson, because the visual difference between the two Gs was extremely subtle in the animation -- when it existed at all.

Knowing what we had planned (more or less) for Avalon, we were already laying groundwork here for that. Setting up the combined power of the Gate, Grimorum and Eye. Setting up the Archmage's desire for that power. Further demonstrating his enmity for the people he'd wind up using. Of course, making Demona his apprentice was fun. Tells a lot about her own desire for power that even when she was a good girl, she was still willing to work for the Archmage in order to learn his secrets. Willing even to steal for him.

The Norman Ambassador and Prince Malcolm make a BIG deal about how odd the Xanatoses' clothes are. But were they THAT strange? Was Fox's wedding gown that odd? And even if they were strange, did they look as shabby as Prince Malcolm seemed to suggest?

Not every episode gives you a double wedding. Fox and David. Elena and Malcolm. Hey, did anyone notice that we married off our lead villain? That was very daring, and we all but threw it away in Act One. Was anyone expecting Fox and X to really get married? And once they were, did you think you'd see them have a kid by season's end? I think we broke new ground there.

I like the exchange between Goliath and Hudson. Goliath's trying to explain that he's not a creature of sorcery, but a time traveler. H: "And I suppose you came back in time on the wind." O.k., well sorcery was involved if you're gonna get technical. And Goliath has some amusing tense problems while trying to describe what happened in his recent past, Hudson's FAR future. Then Hudson looks him in the eye and decides to trust him on no further evidence. Cool.

I knew a girl named Bryant from Bar Harbor, Maine once. That's where we got X's home town.

Fox is so proud of her man. But I love Petros' "Mr. Big-Shot Time Traveler" line. Or rather I love the way Morgan Shepard read the line.

How hard did Demona try to do things differently from the way she remembered them being done? She knows Goliath is going to fly down to try and join her and her younger self. She tries to leave before he can get there. But the gate stays open long enough for him to go with. Did it ever occur to her to go somewhen else other than 994? I guess part of it could be chalked up to dim memory. It was over a thousand years ago. And Demona lived through that 1000 years. Even for a very significant event in her life, it must still be very hazy.

That exchange between Demona and Demona is a lot of fun. Demona is so brutal to Demona. (And, hey, she spells out the Gate's power to any audience member who hasn't yet caught on.) "Do not share it with-- Do not share it!" I love that line. Also:

"I am what you will become."
"I will never be like you."
"I don't want to hurt you."
"And I don't want to BE you."

pretty cool stuff.

I also like the moment when we have two gates rolling about on the floor and young Demona and older Goliath both bend over to pick them up. At first we had a lot of discussion as to who should pick up which gate. But the discussion became moot, since after the gate pieces were reunited, they almost always seemed like they had never been broken in the first place. Magic.

And the young Demona, older Goliath scene is also gorgeous.

"What am I to do?"
"Nothing."

Love that. Love his whole "Do nothing/attend the petty jealousy" speech. I think it's very pretty. Very sad. At that moment, does Goliath hope he's changing the future? Or is he simply trying to spare this young Angel a couple extra decades of pain?

Showing Demona's natural bents again: Goliath isn't sure if he remembers the incantation, though he's heard it multiple times by this point. Young Demona, having only heard it ONCE, does remember and uses the Gate perfectly.

"Time Travel's funny that way." At least it is in the Gargoyle Universe with the strict, strict rules that I imposed. Of course, I've always thought that those strict rules made the stories more challenging for the writer and, yet, more fun and satisfying for the viewer.

I also really like Petros' "American Penny" speech. For once the "Xanatos Tag" of victory doesn't go to David.

Where did the expression "More's the pity." come from? I've heard it many times. I know what it means, though that's more from sound and context than from the words themselves. What am I quoting when I use it? Does anyone know? (This isn't a contest. I really don't know.)

Finally, my tape has the weird mistake ending that first aired, which shows Demona and Goliath in the clock tower. It's pretty, but it drives me nuts and I think it's really confusing. But I've talked about that many times before, and I'm sick of it, so this time, I'll let it go.

COMMENTS WELCOME!


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Maverick writes...

Greg;
I read you post on 'The Mirror' and you asked if it sent anyone to the library. Well it did. the first time I saw the ep I could not get that title (A Midsummer Night's Dream) out of my head so what did I do? I went and read the whole thing the very next day. (I love the play now.)

Thanks!

Greg responds...

You're welcome. And thank you for proving me right.

Response recorded on November 02, 2000

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Maverick writes...

Greg;
Have you seen the live play 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'?

B) Did you like it?

Greg responds...

Of course. Many, many times.

In general, I LOVE it! Though I've seen some productions I've loved more than others.

Response recorded on November 02, 2000

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Ed writes...

Was Richard III really as bad as Shakespeare made him out to be? And what did happen to those two princes in the tower?

Greg responds...

In what universe are you asking?

Response recorded on October 19, 2000

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Vashkoda writes...

1a) You said that Brooklyn would travel to the "Future Tense/2158/?" era both before and after he met Katana. From the perspective of those living during this future period, did Brooklyn's first visit (when he was alone) happen *after* he had already appeared with his family? b) If so, did the people during that time reveal (perhaps accidentally) to Brooklyn that he was going to have a family?

2) You said that Brooklyn keeps "chasing" after the Gate because he wants to get home. Although I'd understand why this would be important to him when he's alone and memories of home are still fresh on his mind, I would think that after 40 years and having the comfort of his family, getting home wouldn't be as critical to him. Am I wrong, or does Brooklyn find a new reason to be motivated to return home to the present?

Greg responds...

1. I'm not answering that now.

2. Odysseus traveled for twenty years. Brooklyn for 40. (But he was only awake for 20.) Sometimes we reason not the need.

Response recorded on September 25, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

This is a comment inspired by your recent answers to the "Tempest" question. While you never did manage to get "The Tempest" into Gargoyles outright (and I found that a pity, for my own part), I've sometimes thought that Angela does resemble Miranda a little (in the same way that, to me, Thailog resembles Edmund in "King Lear" and Demona Shylock) - there's the same general concept there of a sweet, innocent girl being brought up on a mysterious magical island and filled with wonder at the outside world (Miranda's "brave new world" lines strike me as being just as suitable for Angela as they were for the original speaker). I just thought that you might be interested.

Greg responds...

Yeah. Angela/Miranda. That's there. But I won't pretend I was conscious of it. But like with Thailog/Edmund, the play is such an intrinsic part of my consciousness and education, I'm sure I was influenced by it.

Response recorded on September 05, 2000

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Emmlei writes...

This is in reply to my questions you answered. You wondered if I'd read the intro to 'Ask Greg,' I did, but I'd completely forgotten that part of it :P. I didn't realize it until a couple weeks later. So let me rephrase the 'Tempest' question.
1. Which characters were you going to have introduced into the active part of the series? Which would be relagated to flashbacks?
2. What are your takes on at least Caliban and Ariel?
3. What type of relation to the regular characters would the 'Tempest' characters have? ie, would it be immeadiate allies-type, gradual respect-type (like Macbeth's), or would they be enemies?

Greg responds...

1. Prospero, Caliban, Ariel.
1a. The humans, including Prospero's daughter.
2. That's not a simple question.
3. Not saying now.

Response recorded on August 23, 2000

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Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...

Greg, thanks for the ramble about taking your kids to see "A Midsummer Night's Dream". Nice to see you passing Shakespeare on to the next generation. Though Erin and Ben are not the only ones you're teaching/taught it to.

I have yet to see "A Midsummer Night's Dream" (though I saw the movie) performed, but I saw "Titus" last summer, and as you know "A Winter's Tale" with Keith David recently. I loved both of them and look forward to seeing more. Though originally (before "Gargoyles"), I thought of Shakespeare the way your average teenager thinks of it... as boring old books.

Through "Gargoyles" I learned to love and appreciate the Immortal Bard and his works. I planned to tell you this at the Gathering, but at the last minute I could not make it. I'll see you again next year though.

Not just Shakespeare, you inspired me to pick up a book.

Greg responds...

Thanks. That really makes me happy.

Sorry you missed the Gathering. Bring your brother to the next one.

Response recorded on August 23, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

I read (and very much enjoyed) your ramble about taking your kids to see "A Midsummer Night's Dream". I recall attending a performance of that play some years ago (I believe that it was early 1994), which I very much enjoyed. One particular feature of it (which seems almost like a forerunner of "Gargoyles" - which hadn't yet come out when I saw it) was that Philostrate, Theseus's "Master of Ceremonies", was played by a woman, who did the character with a style best described as a "female Owen" - very capable, efficient, and formal. (Makes one wonder if Vogel was Puck's only inspiration :)

(Another Shakespearean performance that I've seen, done by the same company, was a sort of "double feature" of "Hamlet" and Tom Stoppard's "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead", which did the two plays on alternate nights, but with the same cast and even the same stage business for those scenes from "Hamlet" that showed up in the Stoppard play - which made seeing the latter all the more an interesting experience after having seen "Hamlet" only a little earlier).

Greg responds...

Most Philostrate's I've seen have been doubled by the actor playing Puck. Sometimes as the actor simply playing two characters, sometimes clearly as the actor playing Puck who then plays Philostrate.

That probably did help inspire me, deep down. Fed the revelation. Of course, Owen himself was introduced before we even knew Puck was going to be in the series.

I've been dying to see Hamlet and "Rosencrantz..." in rep. You lucky dog.

Response recorded on August 23, 2000

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Ambrosia writes...

*Chuckles*
I just read your account of taking your kids to see A Midsummer Night's Dream. You are such a cool dad.
When you said that before you went, you tried to tell them the plotline of the play so they'd know what to expect, it reminded me of a public speaking class I just took over the summer at my JC. The last and most valuable (point-wise) speech was the "entertaining speech" and I figured that the plot from Midsummer had always entertained me and made me laugh... not to mention it would take about 1-5 minutes to explain in a condensed version.

The result? I lost five points with the explanation "consider your audience."

"My audience" was a roomful of intelleigent, 18-40something college students!!! I don't think any of them followed it. Too many names and too complicated, I was told.
But, enough of my whining. I think it's great that Erin and Benny are starting so early with Shakespeare.

Greg responds...

Me too.

Response recorded on August 23, 2000

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Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...

In answer to a series of question I asked about Oberon and Titania's children (together and otherwise) and the events of Midsummer Night's Dream you mentioned "the pedophile theory" and said, "(platonic or otherwise) [it] still may fit the play best. Haven't worked out whether it applies to the Garg Universe." I must admit to ignorance, what theory?

Strangely enough I never really enjoyed reading Midsummer. Usually I like reading Shakespeare as much as watching, but I just couldn't get into it when last I tried. As a result I can't stand by my inability if seeing anything fitting that description in the play. In seeing the play the boy barely did anything but be handed around and look cute, but performances are already interpretations with choices. Are you saying there is a theory that Oberon wanted the kid for reasons other than being annoyed Titania was ignoring him, or that Titania was interested in the kid in ways other than adopting a dead friend's (or was it worshiper?- I don't remember well enough) child. I don't remember having that sort of theory come up outside of Hamlet. {In Hamlet I can see that there might be elements, but usually find it overplayed. Then again, I am a prude and often wear rose tinted glasses.}

I had also commented on Oberon's amusement at discovering Fox's existence. I would have expected him to be jealous, and wondered if he was exhibiting some maturity in recognition of his own track record. You said that Oberon wouldn't have been jealous because he was divorced from Titania at the time. Since when has Oberon been strictly logical or mature? Until that moment I wouldn't have put it past him to begrudge the fact that the woman he divorced had remarried and had a child with someone else despite any children he had hanging about. When we first meet Oberon, the way he responded to Titania's offer of remarriage seemed to me as if he had been quite anxious for that to happen. It almost seemed to me he had offered before and been turned down. I don't mean that he went begging her, just that he had made gestures of reconciliation and she turned him down in no uncertain terms making clear she was his subject, not love. Mostly it signaled to me that the big blue jerk had some genuine feelings for Titania, and was emotionally invested in her being his wife again. Was my reading completely off? And why was Oberon so amused?

Greg responds...

Pedophilia in Hamlet? Never heard that one. Oedipus complexes I've heard about. Though personally, I think that's rubbish.

The pedophilia thing in Midsummers involves Oberon's potential interest in the changeling. I'm not advocating that theory, though it's easily present should a director chose to play things that way.

Meanwhile, I think Oberon does love Titania. So you weren't off there. But I think he was genuinely amused. I just don't think that Oberon and Titania share the same mores that the rest of us have been socialized with. Besides, I liked shocking you with the unexpected response that still feels right.

Response recorded on August 21, 2000

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Emmlei writes...

I was thinking recently about Demona and the Canmores/Hunters, and it dawned on me that it's a lot like the Montagues and Caputlets of 'Romeo and Juliet'. Both involve two 'families' battling each other over a past greivance, one whose cause unfortunately became lost in the past (for Gargoyles, it's some kid getting slashed in the face, and we never learn the cause in 'R&J'). In both, the drive for revenge becomes the driving force for keeping the feud going. It's kind of tragic that in both stories, something as low as vengence causes so much pain on both sides. So, was that intentional or did I just come across one of those universal themes?

Greg responds...

Largely the universal theme thing. The obvious piece that's missing to make it truly parallel R&J is the young lovers. And I don't think that Jason & Elisa really fill those rolls, wouldn't you agree?

I was going to do a much more dead-on R&J riff in NEW OLYMPIANS with Terry Chung and Sphinx.

Response recorded on August 21, 2000

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Emmlei writes...

Hi, Greg. First off, gotta say how much I love Gargoyles. That done, what enjoy the most about it is how you managed to weave in so much history, myth and Shakespeare into the overall plot. Especially the Shakespeare. (I've kinda picked up the habit of naming the birds of prey at the center from the show :P )
So number 1) Were you planning to do anything with "The Tempest"? It seems like a natural next step, what with Prospero, Caliban, Ariel, the mention of the witch Sycorax, etc.
2) Did you guys do any research on the _real_ Macbeth? I heard somewhere that he might have been real.
3) What about the Changeling from "A Midsummer Night"?
4) And lastly, the bandwagon question: are you ever gonna tell us what Titania said to Fox?

Greg responds...

1. Yes. (Didn't you read the ASK GREG instructions?)

2. A ton. And yes, he was very real. And we tried to keep him as real as possible within the confines of our fantasy.

3. Yeah, I've been thinking about him too. See the archives.

4. Ever is a long time...

Response recorded on August 18, 2000

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My kids had a midsummer night's dream...

Last night there was an outdoor production of Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream" at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art. We were told it was a very kid friendly production and it was free, so we figured it wouldn't hurt to take the kids. If they got antsy, we could always leave.

As most of you know, I have two kids: Erin (age 5) and Ben (age 3). I asked them if they wanted to see a show with Puck in it. (The only Puck they know is the one from Gargoyles.) They were very enthusiastic about wanting to go. I tried to tell them the story of the play. But it's fairly complex when compressed, and I wasn't sure if they'd gotten it.

There was supposed to be a pre-show at 6:30pm, so we got there in time for that. But there was no pre-show. Instead the show started at 7pm. Since they had already been sitting for a half hour I was sure the kids wouldn't make it through the whole play.

But, man, they loved it! Erin was riveted throughout. Benny had a couple of moments when he was more interested in the stars that had begun to appear as it got darker. He also started to sing to himself a couple times. But he never fell asleep, never got drowsy. Never ran around. Or got noisy or anything. Both of them sat on the grass and watched the show, laughing and applauding until it was over an hour and forty-five minutes later. (Obviously the play was trimmed a bit, but all the language was Shakespeare.) They loved the costumes, the magic, the comedy. When Titania ran through the audience and approached them, they were both beaming.

After the show, they ran up to introduce themselves to all the actors. They gave BIG hugs to Titania. It was pretty amazing.

And for me it represents the first step in introducing them to Shakespeare. We're not exactly there yet. But I've been missing a lot of Shakespeare Festivals since the kids were born, and soon I'll be able to take them along.


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Todd Jensen writes...

In one of your most recent answers, you discussed briefly a few of the villains whom you'd planned to show in "Timedancer" if you'd made it. One of them was a certain "Calaban". Is this the same (more or less) as Caliban from "The Tempest"?

Greg responds...

kinda-sorta

yeah...

If Percival is Duval... (metaphorically speaking)...

Response recorded on August 02, 2000

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Punchinello writes...

Hello.
I see you are making progress with your backlog of questions. This question is kind of an ammendment to another question of mine.

A couple of months ago I asked if your idea for Owen was influenced by an archetype I referred to as being "a supernatural charachter indentured to a human master." I made reference to djinn being bound within oak or silver. Now, I dont recall if I was thinking this at the time, but...

I had just recently viewed "Prospero's Books" by Peter Greenaway again. There is a rather disturbing scene therin, of Ariel, bound in his "cloven pine." Spitting out splinters of wood and carring on. It's all rather ghastly. I had, in the past, made the observation that Ariel could be an other example of this archetype. I think, however, that I needed the emphasis Greenaway placed on certain elements to make some connections apparent to me. Of some peripheral interest is the fact that ariel is another spirit bound in a tree, but of greater interest is the stress placed on the characters servitude to Prospero. It was not much of a stretch to *read Owen* into the character.

OF GREATER INTEREST was how easy it became to read Xanatos into Prospero. I was struck by several things in this vein. The first being the parallel between the two men's status as "mortal's" who had aquired great power through supernatural means; particularly through the service of a captive spirit. (I realize the term "captive" does not really describe Owen's situation.) Further, Xanatos' collection of supernatural artifacts (The Eye, the Grimorrim, even the Gargoyles) could be a reflection of Prospero's robes and staff. The artifacts which empower him.

I also considered (perhaps on the heels of watching an adaptation that placed such emphasis on Pospero's Books) that the Grimorrim might be a volume Xanatos "valued above his dukedom."

I wonder also if a reading of Xanatos as *the exiled duke* would be too far off. Milan is in rather close proximity to Greece. I believe you placed Petros Xanatos as a native, there. While Xanatos may not have been physically exiled from his place of birth, it could be argued that his distance from his father and their conflicted relationship could be read as a kind of exile.

Now, I realize you have your reasons for not wanting to confirm or deny ideas that you had for the show, but were not able to elaborate on before it's cancellation. I read the anecdote about the guy who thought you had stolen his idea. (Wasn't he asking about the characters from "The Tempest," actually?) At this point, however, I think you have rather concretely established that Shakespeare plays a rather prominent and consistent theme in "Gargoyles." I cant imagine that anyone would not be inclined to believe that you were going for this reading from the beginning.

Maybe I'm completely wrong about all of this, but I'm sure it will elicit some interesting commentary from you.

Greg responds...

To be honest, the Prospero/Xanatos connection never occured to me -- probably because I have specific ideas for Prospero as a separate character, and also because I SO saw Xanatos as a Coyote Trickster type, and I don't see Prospero that way at all.

But you're analysis fascinated me.

Of course, with the exception of "Possession", Xanatos never got any real magical aide from Owen. (That was kind of the point of their bargain.) But still, I like that what we did had some deep archetypal resonance.

Response recorded on August 02, 2000

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Todd Jensen (repost by Aris) writes...

You mentioned in your recent Shakespeare response about having written a play at Oxford focusing on Edmund in "King Lear" that you hope to expand on at some point. Was this the "Edmund fanfic" that you referred to in a past response about him?

Greg responds...

Might have been. Probably.

Response recorded on August 01, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

I've recently read a book on Shakespeare's famous "history play" cycle (the eight history plays from "Richard II" to "Richard III" about the Wars of the Roses) called "Shakespeare's Kings" by John Julius Norwich, which focused on the relations of Shakespeare's cycle to actual English history. And that inspired a fresh question on my part.

In your vision of the Gargoyles Universe, did any of the immortal characters (Demona, Macbeth, Puck, etc.) get involved in any way in this period of English history that Shakespeare was drawing on for his cycle, from Richard II's deposition in 1399 to Richard III's death at Bosworth in 1485? (We know, of course, where Demona was in 1495, ten years after Bosworth, and that it wasn't in England).

Greg responds...

I doubt Demona was around. Maybe in France during the Joan of Arc years. Macbeth might have been around. Or in and out of the country at least.

Puck -- well, I'd have to think about that.

Anyway, as you can see, I haven't really given it any thought.

Is it disappointing when I admit that I don't literally know everything yet?

If so, just imagine that it's a message from the Gargoyle Universe that hasn't come to me (ala Coleridge) in a dream yet.

Response recorded on July 26, 2000

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Chapter XVIII: "The Mirror"

Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
Writer: Lydia C. Marano

Arguably the best single episode of the series. The animation is fluid, dynamic and very strong. The writing is sharp, even quite funny over and over. And yet, dramatically the story is still potent. It really advances the Goliath & Elisa romance arc. Changes Demona permanently. And introduces Puck -- and by extension, the entire third race: The Children of Oberon. All in a mere 22 minutes.

It's also very gratifying for me. A bit of a vindication. As you may have seen from the memos I wrote to Brynne & Lydia, there was some considerable resistance to the notion that none of the characters would notice their own personal change from one species to another. Most of my collaborators thought the idea was way too complicated to pull off. I argued that it might seem complex, but in fact it would play cleaner on screen -- and funnier and more directly to theme. In my mind, another title for this episode could have been -- had we already not been using it for our Werefox episode -- "Eye of the Beholder", because all the transformed characters really noticed was when someone else was "OTHER". Being a monster or being "normal" was based on their point of view, not any objective look in the mirror. [As it is, the title is the kind I like. Simple, objective and yet metaphoric. At one point, it was titled: "Mirror, Mirror". But we simplified it even more.]

But anyway, when the human Brooklyn, Lex and Broadway are confronted by "Gargoyles", the scene is an intentional mirror of the scene from AWAKENING, PART ONE where Brooklyn says, "If they think we're beasts and monsters..." Again, this is playing with the idea of "beasts and monsters" being merely in the eye of the beholder. The species have reversed, but the situation is exactly the same simply because the Trio remain in the minority. I suppose that's one thing that X-Men's mutants have in common with the Gargs. Both are a metaphor for being part of a minority. Feared almost automatically.

On the other hand, when Elisa is transformed, she believes that Goliath & Co. have been transformed into something like her. I think her immediate reaction is very telling about how she ALREADY felt about Goliath at that point. She's thrilled. She throws her arms about him. Now they're the same species. There's no impediment to their love. What's interesting is that if you stopped and asked Elisa under normal circumstances whether she would wish for Goliath to be transformed into a human, the answer would most certainly be "No." She knows that being a Gargoyle is fundamental to who he is. You can't change that without changing him -- and yet in that instant, in that unguarded moment, her desire to be with him overwhelms that rational knowledge. She's just happy.

At the museum, Elisa looks at herself in the mirror. She then moves, but the reflection holds. That was the idea of one of our board artists. A little clue that the mirror is magic. (It's not an animation error.)

Family Reactions #1

During that museum chase, my wife wanted to know why no alarms were going off. I figure Demona or the thieves just shut them off.

Erin didn't realize that that was Elisa dressed as a security guard at first. We were trying to withhold that information for a bit.

"Titania's Mirror", "The Children of Oberon", "Oberon sent me." We were laying groundwork to expand the entire series' base. But I don't know if back then I knew that much about what if anything I had planned specifically for Titania & Oberon.

Anymore than I knew then what I'd do with the "Dracula's Daughter" reference. But we try not to waste anything.

Coming up with that "Children of Oberon" name was a struggle. And so many people have asked me since whether or not Oberon is literally everyone's father, I almost regret landing on that choice. Our thought process is largely present in the episode when Goliath et al, go through various noms: Fair Folk, Dark Elves, Changelings, Shape-Shifters. Of course, at the time we were misusing the term Changeling. I think that was Odo's influence frankly, but I should have known better. I suggested "The Oberati". But the Reaves didn't care for that. I think they thought it sounded too much like an Italian sports car.

I do love the moment when Brooklyn cites Shakespeare's play as a sort of reference work on the Children. I hope we sent a few people to the library with that line. Did we?

I also love Hudson's line in response to Elisa's question: Are they real?

Hudson: "As real as I am, if the stories be true." It's full of delicious dramatic irony. If you can suspend belief on a bunch of gargoyles, then this shouldn't be a problem for you. I love things that work on multiple levels.

I also love Hudson's "Be careful what you wish for" line.

We were trying to show a bit here how Demona had managed to operate in the modern world up to this point. One of the thieves has clearly worked for Demona before without ever having laid eyes on her. Of course, showing Demona's M.O. here, was like giving it a swan song. Because after this episode, though she clearly doesn't realize it yet, her life is going to get MUCH easier. Being a human during the day is a great boon to all her scheming. I'm very curious about everyone's reaction to that? Shock? Amusement? I also tried to work very hard so that in that last two minutes of epilogue, everyone would get that she only was human during the day. I was very afraid that the audience would think she was permanently transformed into a human. Was anyone confused? Or was anyone surprised that Puck's revenge/gift STUCK? We wouldn't really explore the change until HIGH NOON. Had you forgotten about it by then?

Family Reactions #2
As Demona's casting the spell that will summon Puck. (Which I always thought was very cool, with the feather and all.)
Benny: "That's a magic mirror. Is Demona going in there?"
Erin: "Puck's gonna come out."

As I've mentioned before, during the writing of this story we figured out that Owen was Puck. So to play fair we dropped a hint here. Demona (who knows) says to Puck: "You serve the human. You can serve me." Puck changes the subject, replying "Humans [note the plural] have a sense of humor, you have none." This was done intentionally to distract the audience away from the hint we had just dropped. But obviously, in hindsight, it's a clear reference to Owen serving Xanatos. Anyone get it right off the bat? Anyone even take note of the line the first time? Originally, the line read, "You serve him, now you can serve me." With the "him" referring to Xanatos. But our S&P executive was afraid the "him" could be taken to mean Satan. I know that seems silly now. But keep in mind, we were very paranoid back then about the show being attacked for promoting devil worship. So we made the change.

Sensitive Broadway: "Maybe even love." It's a nice moment. Wistful.

Puck reminds Demona that the mirror isn't "Aladdin's lamp". At the time, the Aladdin series was still in production at Disney. So that's a bit of an in-joke.

And how about that: Demona is still carrying a torch for Goliath. On some level, she wants him more than almost anything. Yet she continually allows her hatred to get in the way. And the irony is, that at this point, pre-Vows it isn't yet too late for them. But her actions further serve to cement the Goliath/Elisa relationship. More now than ever before.

Puck/Brent Spiner is just fantastic. I love that "charming personality" line. And "You don't know what you're asking, believe me." And "I'll do EXACTLY as you asked." And "My mistake." And "A very long nap." He's just so rich.

Plus the boarding and animation on Puck is just great. As is the sound work that accompanies him zipping around.

I always wanted Puck to be the one character who could break the fourth wall and talk directly to the audience. Every time he appeared, we'd put a line or two in the script that was addressed to the audience. And every time, Frank or Dennis Woodyard would cut it out of the board. They didn't like breaking the fourth wall. (A lot of guys don't. I tried to do that with Max on Max Steel, but Richard Raynis and Jeff Kline wouldn't allow that either.) Oh, well....

Puck also establishes that Oberon's Children generally use rhyming spells instead of Latin or Hebrew or whatever. (Thus making life slightly -- but ONLY slightly -- easier on me and the writers.) But Puck isn't too formal: "Human's love a battle hearty, so does Puck, come on, let's Party!" Fun. (And I like Brooklyn's line, "Party's over." too.)

Family Reactions #3
When Elisa's transformed into a gargoyle.

Erin: "She looks cute." [I very much agree. Though I always wonder where her red jacket goes.]

Ben then asked why she was transformed.

Beth explained that Demona didn't want Elisa to be human anymore.

Erin then corrects my wife and explains that Puck is tricking Demona.

KIDS GET IT! Adults need to pay closer attention!

Goliath suddenly has lust in his heart:
G: "I never realized when you were human just how beautiful you were."
E (with a smile): "You mean you thought I was ugly?"
G: "Uh... careful! Updraft!!"
Man, that guy is smooth.

Anyway, that's one of my all-time favorite exchanges. I think it reveals so much. Somewhere underneath, Goliath has been attracted to who Elisa IS deep-down -- at least since AWAKENING, PART THREE. But he never thought of her as a potential love interest. He wasn't brought up liberally enough to think that way. After all, she has no wings, no tail. And those human shaped feet!

But suddenly, she's revealed as a FEMALE. Now, even when she goes back to being human, his perspective is permanently altered. Hers, however, is not. She's already consciously had those thoughts. Consciously rejected them. So at the end of the episode, he wants to discuss these (for him) new feelings -- but she does not. And the sun helps shut him up.
G: "That's not what I meant."
E: "But that's the way it is."
Another of my all-time favorite exchanges. (I'm really partial to things involving the G/E relationship. I know, I know, I'm a romantic sap.]

I also like the ongoing confusion. Elisa: "Everyone in Manhattan has been turned into... HUMANS!" Goliath: "No, no, no, no, no." And when the Gargoyles are changed into humans, Brooklyn is so sure that they've always been humans, it's funny. Like that moment in CITY OF STONE, when he's convinced that the "statue of Elisa" is a bad likeness of her: "They got the nose wrong."

FYI, there was an honest attempt, within the logical parameters of what our gargs looked like, to make their human versions resemble the actors who played them. Thus Goliath has darker skin than the others, because Keith David is African-American. (Though otherwise Goliath really looks like Conan to me.) The bald Lex has brown hair and the bald Broadway has blond like Thom Adcox and Bill Fagerbakke respectively. Brooklyn resembles Jeff Bennett but with Brooklyn's white hair instead of Jeff's blond. And Hudson looks like Ed Asner with a beard. More or less. Thom Adcox is the one who most looked like the human version of his character.

Cool little touches:

Demona nudges an unconscious Puck with her tail.

She continues to call Hudson, "Old Soldier". Her tenth century "name" for him.

Her line about the "gift of being a gargoyle". I love that superior attitude.

Lexington's "Fun, but weird" line.

Hudson wrapping the sheet over the mirror.

Elisa and Demona have a brief "cat-fight" as Gargoyles. Not quite as diverting as the one they'll have as humans in High Noon. But it was nice to put them on equal physical footing for a change. Let them have it out.

Demona mentions that Puck isn't too tired to make himself "invisible to the crowd". This was us trying to plug a hole in our story. We felt it would undercut the mob's reactions to our newly human heroes if they had the same reaction to seeing Puck. And yet Puck clearly looks more human than Gargoyle. More "other". So we slid that line in to avoid the whole problem.

FAMILY REACTION #4

Beth laughed at Hudson's very Scots reading of "No doubt about it." Which is pronounced more like: "No doot aboot it."

More sappy stuff (which I love):

Goliath's line: "I'll always be there to catch you."

Elisa completely forgetting her fear of flying in order to save the MAN she loves.

That brief moment when both Elisa and Goliath are humans at the same time.

Hudson's wistful line about seeing the sun, just once.

Although it had little to do with the metaphor, we couldn't really resist the notion of showing Bronx transformed into a dog. We picked the biggest dog we could think of, a Wolfhound type, though a bulldog might have been more reminiscent.

In the script, Demona smashes the mirror upon seeing her human reflection in the glass. But somehow the scene never got animated. So we added the sound of the mirror being smashed to the exterior shot at the end. This was important in order to give the story full closure. The initial point of the episode was to prevent Demona from getting Titania's Mirror. Structurally, therefore, I couldn't allow her to keep it.

But no fear, later we introduced Oberon's Mirror (clearly part of a matching set) in THE GATHERING, PART ONE.

I wonder what all those Manhattanites thought when suddenly they realized they were all barefoot.



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