jamescagney22 writes...

Missed this at the AMA so I thought I would try my luck here!
I was wondering what made you choose to have Vandal Savage motives being a grand vision for humanity in a more thoughtful way then his more well known appearances did you get this from a particular story in the comics? Usually he is more an immoral sociopath or world conqueror and I am glad you made him more well rounded. And do you see any overlap with Peredur Fab Ragnal and the Illuminati in Gargoyles and did that inform how you portrayed the Light and Vandal Savage?

Jurgan writes...

Warning: This is going to deal with some heavy topics (specifically antisemitism), but I was encouraged to ask for your opinions. Please do not take this as accusatory, I'm just a long-time fan who's been thinking about some serious issues over the last few years.

When I watched Gargoyles as a kid, there was a villainous organization called the “Alu Minadi.” I later learned it was correctly spelled “Illuminati,” and that it was a staple of all sorts of genre fiction about secret societies, where it was largely interchangeable with the Freemasons. It was also commonly used as a metonym for any sort of behind the scenes string-pullers, what Angel would call “The Powers that Be.” All well and good, until I was reading an article about Tim LaHaye, co-author of the Left Behind series. I found out he believed the Illuminati was a real, very dangerous thing. I learned that they were sort of a real group that disbanded centuries ago, but many people believe they still operate in secret. Worst of all, they are almost always at least implied to be Jewish.

I was horrified to realize that Nazi rhetoric about an international conspiracy of Jewish puppetmasters was so prevalent in popular discourse. Over the last few years I've seen more and more conspiracy theories enter the mainstream, and if you scratch the surface of any of them, there's almost always antisemitism underneath. Even truly absurd ideas like “the lizard people” are often just “wink and nod” references to supposed Jewish conspiracies. The biggest right now is Qanon, which claims powerful people do all sorts of depraved things with kidnapped children. This is, of course, just a modern reworking of the ancient “blood libel.” Many of its adherents go beyond coded messages and outright say Jews (or possibly “Zionists”) are behind it all. So now whenever I hear anyone talking about “the Illuminati,” even as a joke, my antisemitism radar pops up. Sadly, it's usually right.

All that said, what am I to do with shows I love that rely on such conspiracies? Of course, I'm not accusing you of antisemitism (I can think of several reasons that'd be ridiculous, starting with your own ethnoreligious identity), but I didn't know anything about you or any of the other creators when I first saw the show. There is some irony that the character obsessed with the Illuminati is himself Jewish, though I didn't know “Bluestone” was a Jewish name at the time. Where I eventually came down is that Gargoyles has such clear anti-racist themes that it's hard to imagine anyone taking an antisemitic message from it. On my recent rewatch, I noticed the punks in M.I.A. were basically reciting Brexit talking points about immigrants ruining England, 20 years before Brexit was a thing. “Golem” puts Jewish characters in the heroic roles and opens with what I now recognize as a pogrom. Also, the characters we see involved with the Illuminati do not appear to be Jewish. Malone is presumably Italian (though I suspect his wife was Jewish), the upper leadership in the comics are mostly from Arthurian legend so probably a mix of Christianity and paganism, Shari is Arabic, and Thailog is... Thailog. And they partner with a clear KKK analog, which I doubt any Jewish organization would do. Still, people do often take perverse readings of shows. I've seen people read white supremacist messages into My Little Pony of all things. And on rare occasions I've even seen people say that Gargoyles was trying to tell the truth about the “real Illuminati.”

This all ties in to a bigger question of how much responsibility creators and artists have for the audience's interpretation. There are shows like The Sopranos and Breaking Bad that clearly condemn their villain protagonists, yet some fans still admire these “antiheroes.” Alan Moore has said fans tell him they identify with Rorschach, at which point he wishes he were somewhere else. I myself am worried the “sex trafficking” plotline in my unpublished novel might contribute to harmful ideas. Sex trafficking is real, to an extent, but its reality is nothing like popular beliefs, and those beliefs were part of both the 80's Satanic Panic and its modern iteration, Qanon. These questions are enough to make me (more) neurotic.

I don't exactly know what I'm asking here, just getting out some thoughts I've been kicking around. I guess the question is: what do you think your responsibility is when making a show that mostly children watch? I know you were very concerned with your portrayal of gun safety in “Deadly Force” and managed to do it in a way that “concerned parents” groups praised. There was also the need to avoid “imitable” violence, hence Duncan getting killed by a magic glowing electricity bomb. Are there any similar conversations that take place around how conspiracy theories are presented? In the 90's, conspiracy theories existed, but they were more fringe. Today, they are much more mainstream, and you're making a show whose villains are “The Light,” which is just an English translation of “Illuminati.” Even without the antisemitic baggage the name “Illuminati” has, I still worry about giving people more reason to be paranoid. I don't know how I would approach something like that, so I guess I'm tossing the question to you. Thank you for reading and for whatever response you have.

Diamondstar writes...

I looked and I couldn't find this question so I thought I ask: Why are you interested writing about secret societies like the Light or the Illuminati?

Paul writes...

In "Revelations," Martin Hacker told Matt "Your job was to get him (Goliath) there (to the Hotel Cabal). It's not your fault if old Mace couldn't hold him." In fact, since Matt gave Goliath the key and physically stopped Mace from shooting Goliath, it was indeed Matt's fault that old Mace couldn't hold him.

Was Martin unaware of Matt's involvement in Goliath's breakout, or was he deliberately lying to Matt?

NoOneSpecial writes...

Okay so I have to be REALLY careful about how I ask this question. If you cant understand my meaning then its probably my own fault and for that I'm sorry, but I thought this was a very interesting concept. It's about xanatos's letter to himself.
Here we go. So in Vows, Xanatos travels back in time and sends himself the coin that he will eventually use to amass his fortune. He also sends a letter that is to be delivered to himself twenty years after the coin which explains how he has to get the coin, which as he said in the episode he received that very letter a week before the wedding. So I guess the best way I can phrase this is, is that the EXACT same letter and by same I mean the same piece of paper. The way I see it that letter is over a thousand years old and must be pretty worn(unless of course it was carefully preserved). So when xanatos gets the letter, does he just send back the same one he got or copy the information on a new piece of paper and send that back instead? If its the first one then that piece of paper must keep accumulating age to it. He sends it once, its over a thousand years old. He sends it a second time, its another thousand years old, and so on. So the piece of paper could eventually become so worn that it would be either unreadable or destroyed. So does xanatos just make a new letter every time he gets it or send back the one he received? PS loved rain of ghosts, hope you get to make all nine books.

Greg Bishansky writes...

So, hoping I catch you in the mood...

As of "Phoenix" what are Fiona Canmore and Falstaff's Illuminati numbers?

Anonymous writes...

After "Revelations" do Elisa and the gargoyles now believe in the existence of the Illuminati?

Matt writes...

Are the jewels that Mace Malone and Dominic Dracon heisted together currently being kept in the treasury of Eastcheap Isle?

Matt writes...

In "Revelations", Mace Malone managed to get Goliath into the Hotel Cabal. The episode made it clear that the hotel (and Mace as it's caretaker) existed to extract information from individuals and Mace specifically told Goliath that he wanted answers from him.

I'm curious, what exactly did the Illuminati want to know so badly that Goliath knew? The existence of the Manhattan Clan and their link to Elisa was provided to them by Xanatos. If they wanted more of their backstory and how and why gargoyles from 10th Century Scotland ended up in 1995 Manhattan, it seems it would've been easy enough to simply ask Xanatos for that information, assuming Xanatos hadn't already told them that stuff as well. And the existence, purpose and nature of gargoyles in general hardly seems like something the Society wouldn't already be aware of. So what else is there? What else did the Illuminati think or know that Goliath knew that was so important that it would need to be forced out of him?

I imagine this question is just begging for a "SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.", but I thought I'd ask just in cause I've missed something or you were feeling generous.

In any case, thanks.

Greg Bishansky writes...

1. Does John Castaway know his Aunt Fiona is an Illuminatus?

2. On your timeline you wrote that the Illuminati approached the Canmores seeking an alliance and Jason turned them down:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=598

Was this Fiona?

Charisma82 writes...

Did Matt ever tell Elisa that he was a member of the Illuminate? I ask because in the episode Revelations Matt says that it didn’t pay to keep Elisa in the dark about things (speaking about the incident with the Dracons in The Silver Falcon). After going on and on about how they should trust each other in the episode Revelations, it would seem contradictory of what Matt had just been through to not tell Elisa. But then, maybe he has his reasons to keep it a secret. Care to shed some light on the subject?

Thank you for your time and all that you do,

-Charisma82

Todd Jensen writes...

Among the objects in the Illuminati's treasury on Eastcheap Island was a shield (medieval, by the shape of it) with a picture of a swan on it. Was this your idea, or Karine's when she drew the page?

Todd Jensen writes...

One detail about the Illuminati's immense treasure in "Losers" caught my eye; amid all these ancient artworks and historical artifacts stands what appears to be an ordinary everyday lamp. Was including it in that scene your idea or Karine's?

gipdac writes...

Xanatos, Matt Bluestone, Thailog and John Castaway all became members of the Illuminati in fairly quick succession, but we are only told of one opening with the death of Mace Malone. With so many Illuminatus being nearly immortal, it seems odd that there would be 4 open positions within a few months.
1. Does the Illuminati always have 666 members or do they have 666 positions, but not all positions are necessarily filled all the time?
2. If they do have 666 filled position at all times, then who died to make room for Xanatos, Thailog, and Castaway? I’m assuming here the Bluestone replace Malone.

gipdac writes...

1. Were any of the Falstaff's Band of Thieves members Illuminati or are they just minions or henchmen?
2. If they are members of the Illuminati, what is the rank of:
A. Falstaff (John Oldcastle)?
B. Pistol?
C. Mistress Quickly?
D. Bardolph?
E. Points?
F. Doll?
3. What's the real name of:
A. Pistol?
B. Mistress Quickly?
C. Bardolph?
D. Points?
E. Doll?
4. Did Dingo know any of the Band of Thieves besides Falstaff and Pistol?
5. Why did John Oldcastle (Falstaff) strangle Dingo's mom?
6. What did the Redemption Squad plan on doing with Mistress Quickly?

Greg Bishansky writes...

Since you said to ask these questions here,

What are Falstaff and Fiona Canmore's Illuminati numbers?

Full Gathering journal coming soon, I promise.

F.Z. writes...

Hello Again Greg, i have a some questions about Arthur Pendragon
1) What class of inmortality have Arthur?, a really long live or is he Age Stuck like Macbet and Demona? or at least have some way of Inmortality?
2) And if he is Inmortal, Who made him Inmortal? this one feel free to don`t answer XP
3) He knows about the Illuminaty?

Thanks Again

Rachel N. writes...

Just as a brief FYI, in the May 2009 issue of Empire Magazine, on page 73 in an article about the movie "Angels and Demons", there's the following blurb:

"Unsurprisingly, the Illuminati often crop up as Hollywood baddies. As well as Angels & Demons, Lara Croft: Tomb Raider and TV cartoon Gargoyles feature the Illuminati, or Illuminati-associated wonks, as villains."

I just thought it was cool that they mentioned Gargoyles and made that connection.

Todd Jensen writes...

I was recently rereading Roger Lancelyn Green's retelling of the Arthurian cycle (it was the January 2009 book for an Arthurian book club that I recently joined), and found this passage at the end of the section on the Quest for the Holy Grail:

"But when the last battle had been fought and the realm of Logres was no more, Percivale's kingdom made still a little light in the darkness of a Britain conquered and laid waste by the barbarians." (p. 248 of the old Puffin Books edition I bought as a boy).

Was this passage the inspiration (or at least, *an* inspiration) for your idea of Percival/Duval founding the Illuminati?

Shadow Wing writes...

What was Mace Malone's number in the Society?

Greg Bishansky writes...

Just out of curiosity, the Norman Ambassador in "Vows." What was his Illuminati ranking?

Anonymous writes...

I've always been wondering, is the illuminati of great interest to you? Did you ever have to explain or get those references approved by Disney? Not that it's bad, it just seems to be pretty deep for a y7 cartoon.