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Chapter XXXIV: "Avalon, Part One"
There's no memo, outline or script for this one on my computer, so we'll head right into my ramble on...
"AVALON, PART ONE"
DIRECTOR: Dennis Woodyard.
WRITER: Lydia Marano.
STORY EDITOR: Brynne Chandler Reaves.
THE RECAP
...is all over the place. So much was coming together in this three-parter. The Weird Sisters, the eggs, the Archmage, Tom, Princess Katharine, the Magus, Macbeth, Demona. This was our most ambitious story yet. Which given episodes like "The Mirror" or "Vows" and multi-parters like "Awakening" and "City of Stone" was saying something.
Of course "Avalon" was never designed to be the cohesive single story movie that "City of Stone" was. It was designed as a tryptych. Part one would bring our heroes up to date. Part two would bring our villains up to date. Part three would pit them against each other.
"Avalon I" also represented the first episode in our fourth tier. The three-parter was what we called a 'tentpole'. We knew we couldn't air it until all the Tier 3 episodes had aired. And we knew we couldn't air any other Tier 4 episodes until this three-parter had aired. Despite the fact that "The Price" aired out of order, generally our Tentpole/Tier system worked very well. Out of 66 episodes that I worked on only two: "The Price" and "Kingdom" aired out of order, hopefully with minimal damage to the continuity.
THE TITLE
The title was one of mine. But initially I wasn't sure that we were going to call the island Avalon. Now, it's mind-boggling to me, but I actually had my assistant Monique Beatty (who's now a producer in her own right) research Brigadoon to find out if that name was created only for the musical, or if it was something pulled from legends. I was thinking of Avalon, but looking for something from a Scotish tradition as opposed to British. Fortunately, Brigadoon was created for the musical. So we were 'stuck' with Avalon. Which made including King Arthur a natural.
Many series don't reveal that an episode is going to be a multi-parter until you get to the 'To Be Continued' line at the closer. "Avalon, Part One" could have just been titled "Avalon". The conventional wisdom is that people are reluctant to commit the time to a multi-parter in advance. That it is better to hook them on the story before revealing that they HAVE to come back to see the end. I always felt that was cheating. What is your reaction to seeing "Part One" attached to a title?
OPENING
Another cool shot of our gargs waking up. Always nice to reiterate that at the start of our bigger stories.
Bronx gets left behind. Of course, this often happens. It was one of the things that the World Tour would set about correcting in a BIG way. But we made his getting left behind a bit more obvious here. Usually, he just doesn't go. This time they won't take him and he's sad. We were laying pipe.
My 5-year-old son Benny asked where Hudson and the Trio were going. I had to think about it. "On Patrol, I guess."
OLD FRIENDS
Then the GUARDIAN shows up. I love his cool, Goliath-inspired armor. My 7-year-old daughter Erin immediately demanded to know who he was. I wouldn't tell her. (I'm so mean.) Did any of you guess?
Of course he immediately encounters BRENDAN & MARGOT. (What would one of our multi-parters be without him?)
Then comes the three gang-bangers from "AWAKENING, PART THREE". As usual, Keith David does the voice for one of them -- making it distinctive from both Goliath and MORGAN, who's about to come in and speak. The problem is we got a touch confused. In Awakening, Keith voices the bald white guy. Here he does the same voice, but it's assigned to the black guy. Hard to say which is wrong, except by virtue of which came first. It annoys me though.
Morgan's fun in this. I really like him. No one but Simon DelMonte will get this, and I don't know if he even reads these rambles, but Morgan kind of reminds me of Jeff Goslin, a character that Cary Bates and I created in Captain Atom.
Anyway, I like how Morgan talks Guardian down. And I like how the sword is much heavier than he thought it was going to be. His cop buddies tease him, but he maintains his sense of wonder and goodness when talking about the Guardian to Elisa.
That's kind of a cool scene. First off he describes Guardian's armor: "Real armor. King Arthur stuff." Anyone think this was a clue to what was coming in the next episode? Even with the Avalon title? Then he tells her the guy's looking for Gargoyles. Elisa of course discourages her fellow officers from taking Garg reports seriously. Everyone who's seen one must be a nut-case. These guys should form 'a club'. Then she finds out that this Guardian was asking for Goliath by name. BOOM.
BELVEDERE CASTLE
Site of our last encounter with Demona and Macbeth. Another clue.
Once Elisa got a look at the Guardian's armor, she must have thought -- yeah, there's a Goliath connection here all right.
Goliath shows with Bronx, who gets to come along and come along and come along for once. Bronx always seemed underutilized to us. We knew we couldn't bring the whole clan along. (Too many characters and no poignancy.) But Bronx was an easy addition. Of course, Bronx is also useful as a kind of living personality test. If Bronx likes you, it's a damn good sign. Bronx likes Tom. Does he remember him? What scents do you figure the Guardian carried back from Avalon. Anyway, Bronx engenders immediate trust in the Guardian for Goliath.
I love this scene. Guardian gives everyone so little time to catch up. He talks about the Archmage, reveals that he's Tom and talks about 'the eggs' being in danger. *That was a fun idea. Keep you guys thinking in terms of eggs for twenty minutes and reveal that it's just a pet name for the Avalon Clan.*
Benny asked: "What kind of Eggs?"
Erin: "Gargoyle Eggs."
Benny: "I didn't know Gargoyles hatch out of eggs." [Well, keep in mind it's been a year since he saw the first thirty episodes. And he's too young to remember the first time he saw the ones we're watching now.]
Then there's the skiff. Elisa: "Where'd that boat come from? ... To where? The other side of the lake? ... Wait for me!"
This all sounds fishy to her. Nothing makes sense. I wanted to get a clear shot in there of the pond in Central Park so that you could see objectively that it doesn't go anywhere. But I never quite managed that. I wanted you guys to be confused. Or at any rate to have a million questions. But like Elisa, no matter how suspicious, I figured you'd want to go along for the ride.
FLASHBACK
Mary, Katharine, the Magus and young Tom are all reintroduced. It's very clear that the first three have all learned their lesson from Awakening. They've all really become better people. Tom, of course, didn't need to learn that lesson. But he does learn to be a hero. He officially becomes the Guardian. It begins, I believe, as just a nice gesture on the part of the Princess. Later, of course, it'll become the truth. Then there's the long journey. I like the montage there. Hardship. We never had the time to show enough of the hardship of tenth century life.
Our gang heads into Edinburgh. Constantine's followers are all over the place. They all seem to look like Disney storyboard artists for some reason. ;)
VOICES
There's some stellar voice work in this ep. Morgan Shepard as King Kenneth II. Sheena Easton making her Garg Premiere as Finella. Ian Buchanan as Constantine. (I've already mentioned Keith's versatility.)
But as usual, real props must be handed out to Jeff Bennnett and Kath Soucie.
Jeff plays Brooklyn, the Magus and Maol Chalvim. (No Bruno or Owen or Vinnie in this ep, I'm afraid.)
Kath plays Katharine, Mary and all three Weird Sisters.
They're amazing.
SOAP OPERA
Benny saw Finella and said: "That's one of the witches."
A year ago, Tom was his favorite character. Now Tom barely registered. And he really is fascinated with the Weird Sisters. Anyway, I corrected him, but I was glad that they were appearing later.
Ian Buchanan, once of General Hospital, is playing a cad here. We have to very quickly set up a lot of politics, sexual and otherwise. This story was as historical as we could make it based on the available research, the fact that we had to fit in a few fictional characters and eggs, and screen time compression.
Believe it or not, we also had another character originally that we cut early on because it was just getting too damn complicated. Katharine and Maol Chalvim's cousin: the future King Kenneth III. The father of Bodhe. Yep. That Bodhe. The father of Gruoch.
Kenneth III winds up being made High King of Scotland after Constantine is killed. To get a sense of their relationship, at least as I see it, you might want to check out "Once upon a time there were three brothers..."
(Or to give you a hint, ten years after the events depicted here, King Kenneth III would be murdered by Maol Chalvim's operatives during a civil war. Maol Chalvim was also known as Malcolm Forranach, the Destroyer. We used the Maol Chalvim version of his name so as not to confuse him with Katharine's father Prince Malcolm. Just as in City of Stone we emphasized Malcolm Canmore's Canmore name for the same reason.)
Anyway, Maol Chalvim seems intense but right on the money here. He's even kind of heroic when he and the Magus bring Tom back to Katharine's apartment, and he begs Katharine to go. Kind of heroic. He still leaves her. We were trying very hard to balance out his minor role here with his future roll as the grandfather of and major influence on Duncan. (Of course, he's also Macbeth's grandfather, as well.)
After Katharine tells Maol to go, there's a weird cut of him just standing there smiling. We needed some kind of transition before he took off running, and I guess that was the best we could do. But it's still awkward as hell.
THE MURDER
But I'm getting ahead of myself.
We establish early on that Katharine doesn't think much of Constantine. You wouldn't know it from Awakening, but obvioulsy she's learned to be a decent judge of character.
Kenneth isn't quite so sharp. Everyone can see that he's a fool for Finella. And he doesn't recognize Constantine's threat (despite the fact that Constantine's father was a bitter enemy and) despite the fact that his son flat out tells him to beware. My thinking was that the crown had kept bouncing back and forth between different branches of the royal family. Kenneth had hoped that by taking Constantine in, instead of banishing him, he'd be able to be a positive influence on the boy. A nice idea perhaps, but maybe Kenneth was too innattentive to pull it off. And Maol probably was too covetous to really be a brother to young Con.
Anyway, Constantine tricks Finella and kills the king. We hear Finella sobbing, just to prove that she was neither in on it nor that she would approve of it. (Though one wonders what her reaction would have been down the road if Constantine hadn't spurned her in favor of Katharine. Would she have adjusted to the crime? Or did Constantine become an unredeemable villain in her eyes immediately? I hate to say it, but I tend to think it's the former. Actually, I don't hate to say it. She's more interesting to write that way.)
Erin asked: "He killed King Arthur? Why?"
That's a tough question. So first I had to explain that it was King Kenneth, not King Arthur. Then my wife Beth helped out by explaining that Constantine wanted to be king.
We come back from the act and we see that Constantine was ready for the takeover. The Banners are immediately changed in a scene clearly inspired by the Ian McKellan (spelling?) movie version of Shakespeare's Richard III. (A version I heartily recommend, by the way.)
We also continue to set up the Magus' own tragedy. He loves Katharine. Has loved her since before Awakening. That feeling is shown to deepen here when she is once again in danger. And when Constantine tries to coerce her into marrying him. (The astute Mary and Tom have to hold him back.) Here, we sense that maybe Katharine might some day return that love. That's what I wanted you all to think anyway. Did you?
Constantine takes his crown. Originally we wanted to stage this with the Stone of Destiny as we did with Macbeth. But again, I think we just had too many sets.
Michaelmas. I just like that word.
Constantine is fairly astute himself: "You have 36 very good reasons to obey." We kept reiterating the number of eggs for what was coming later.
THE ESCAPE
The Magus disguises broken pots as eggs and vice-versa. But it always seemed to me that the kitchen staff at Edinburgh sure broke a lot of pots. I mean a LOT!
I like the lines: "Taking the wee bairns for a walk?" and "I don't think I like Gargoyle eggs." Very menacing.
Princess K burns her wedding dress. She feels she cannot leave because C will follow her to "the ends of the Earth." So the Magus responds: "Then I will take you beyond them." Again. Very romantic moment between them.
Finella joins the troop. The WOMAN SCORNED. She's really fun now. Dangerous. I always laugh when Constantine drinks the brew and collapses so abruptly.
Erin: "The Weird Sisters". My kids are just fascinated with this trio. I wonder if they still will be by the end of this three-parter or if like many fans, they will be disappointed?
They get turned into owls. But the Magus worries about giving up the source of his power. K doesn't care about that.
And Finella and Mary agree to take the book. I love these two. I think they'd make a totally kick-ass team. I doubt it would be commercial enough, but I'd love to do a spin-off show just with these two women. At any rate, there was the plan to include them as recurring characters in TimeDancer.
Tom has to leave his mother and his childhood behind. Now his role as the Guardian is a way for Katharine to make him accept the loss. It is the start of their relationship, though neither knows it. I watch this now, and I can't help thinking of the Anakin & Padma relationship and where that's destined to go.
AVALON
Back to the present. We see the impressive shores of Avalon. Very cool painting.
Bronx reacts. Guardian: "He's found the eggs..." And the music swells and two gargs and a garg beast appear on the cliff.
Now is that a cliff-hanger or what? What was your reaction?
Erin and Benny wanted "to see ther rest!" I told them they'd have to wait a week and we got a lot of protesting. Just what I was hoping for.
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Galvatron writes...
1.Why didn't Kenner make any action figures of the characters that we saw in the World Tour? They might have made some money with Griff, Arthur, Nokkar, Cuchullain, Golem or Fara Maku figures so why didn't they?
2.Whose idea was it to have the World Tour?
Greg responds...
1. They only wanted to make toys based on characters who appeared in a large percentage of episodes. And sometimes, not even then.
2. Mine, largely.
Anonymous writes...
Shaman&Dreamtime
The dreamtime in Australian legend was where life began and the abode of the gods so is this true in the gargoyles universe?
I just thought Goliath and Dingo¡¯s battle with Matrix is quite similar to shaman battles so was it suppose to be a Shaman battle?
Greg responds...
Shamanistic certainly. We did our best given our resources.
Anonymous writes...
Karadigi
How did Fara Maku find Karadigi when nobody else found it?
Greg responds...
Maybe for once, Anansi wanted it to be found...
Anonymous writes...
Were that guy and his son we saw in eye of the storm 100% human? What happened to the kid's mother?
Greg responds...
Yes.
She died.
Anonymous writes...
Why didn¡¯t Banshee kill Bronx and Rory when they climbed out of the pit? Why did she take him back to his home after she kissed him? Why didn¡¯t she do anything to Bronx?
Was Banshee the original Deathworm that inspired the legends or was the original another child of Oberon? If not what was it?
Greg responds...
It would really help if you'd number your questions.
1. There's no one simple answer. But she wanted to avoid waking Rory. An actual attack might have triggered the very thing she feared.
1a. She was trying to put him back to sleep.
2. She said that she didn't perceive him as a real threat.
3. I believe so.
JEB writes...
If Avalon only dropped Goliath and company off in Manhattan to deal with Oberon, then why did their skiff sink? Wouldn't it have remained if it still had more tasks for them?
Thanks!
Greg responds...
It didn't. But it also didn't simply drop them off to let them come home. Sometimes things can have more than one purpose.
Anonymous writes...
From what source of water did Goliath and co. arrive in Tiber?
Were there any other guest characters there besides Coldstone?
How did Coldstone get from New York to Tibet? Did he fly there? If so how did he maintain his supply of rocket fuel?
Greg responds...
Tibet, not Tiber. Two very different places.
1. I'm not telling.
2. Yes, technically.
3. He got there, mostly by flight. But let me ask you... how do you know he even uses rocket fuel?
matt writes...
ok, you've said that Angela would say the spell to reach Avalon after each adventure. well, at the end of "Bushido" its daytime and Angela is asleep, but yet the travelers still disappear into the mist, and i mean they really vanish, not just fade into the mist. at first i thought maybe Elisa could've said the spell, but if you watch the episode shes talking to the Ishimuran guy and herself as the travelors dissapear, so SHE didn't say the spell either. so how did the travelers dissappear without saying the spell?
sorry to try and trap you like this, but its only fair the way you dodge our questions! LOL, kidding! :) if you don't have an answer its ok!
Greg responds...
I'd have to look at it again. Elisa may have ALREADY said the spell. Or maybe that fog was just thick Japanese fog. And she said the spell after the fade.
I would think that Angela would generally be the one to say it. But after Goliath and Elisa had heard it over and over, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to do it too.
Jim R. writes...
Do the other clans existing throughout the world all speak English so well? Are they fluent in a more native tongue? I didn't expect Golaith, etc. to be able to communicate so easily with foreign clans or did this just have to do with the simple fact that the TV show was being watched by a majority of Americans? (Basically the same as asking why all the aliens in Star Trek English fluently)
Greg responds...
I would have liked to have done more with foreign languages during the world tour, but that was actually vetoed by our bosses.
We'll assume for now, just for now, that Zafiro, Kai and the others had reason to learn English.
Lord Sloth writes...
Why do none of the New Olimpians bother to tell Goliath that there are other Gargoyles on New Olimpis? Where do the other gargoyles live on the island? How big is the Island? it looked like it was just one floating city.
Greg responds...
It's fairly big. They may have thought Goliath knew. The Gargoyles of New Olympus are isolationists, even from their fellow citizens.
Lord Sloth writes...
Hi Greg, is it July 4th now? You seem to be making quite the effort to catch up to us. Just know that I have a big list of questons that I havn't even asked yet. Anyway, to the question.
When Goliath and co. returned to N.Y., what did they do with the skiff? Did it sink like Arther's? And when they got back, was it from the lake near Belveder Castle, or in from the Atlantic or what?
Tank u.
Greg responds...
It sank. And I like to think they took the same approach as Goliath took in "Future Tense", but without the devastation.
And it's currently July 20th.
Lord Sloth writes...
Was there a reason that so many of the world tour eps were about locals learning to accept thier responcibility and or heritage seriously (ie. heritage, hound of ulster, cloud fathers, golem)?
Greg responds...
Yes. Absolutely.
Anonymous writes...
What exactly is the dreamtime? Is it like the astral plane?
Greg responds...
Uh... sure.
Sloth writes...
When the Goliath & co. finished the egypt ep, they just calmly turned to stone in front of the spinx. Since they weren't sure what happend to they pack, weren't they being a bit careless about where they slept, or were they confident that Elisa could protect them from Wolf, Jackel AND Hyena?
Greg responds...
Choose your own interpretation. Just keep in mind... nothing happened.
Anonymous writes...
Any plans on retconning parts of Hound of Ulster?
Greg responds...
No. My only regret there is that I didn't put Cu Chullain's armor and skeleton in the Cairn with Goliath, Angela and Elisa.
Pyro X writes...
Greg;
The Native Peoples of NA came to NA VIA the Bering Strait some thousands of years ago.
1) When Oberon dispatched his "family" to live among mortals, did Raven make his way imediatly to Q.F.I off Canada?
2)Did Raven "take on" the persona of "The Raven" based on Native legend, or was he always "Raven"?
3) As you have said, you never know if that is Pucks true form (As the in the elvish form). Does this, as well, apply to the Other children? Was that Raven's true form?
4) Does Raven have a true form?
5) Did the "Raven" legend spring from "Raven" himself?
6) What WAS that thing Grandmother turned into??? (the thing with the weird mouth).
Thanks!
Greg responds...
Pyro,
Your initial premise is scientifically accepted. But I think many Native American Tribes disagree. It doesn't fit their legends and holy stories. For the purposes of Gargoyles, I'm not taking sides. All things are true.
1. Keep in mind that what Oberon mainly did was to banish the Children from Avalon and insist that they not interfere with mortal lives. It's not like Raven had never been among mortals up to that point.
2. He's Raven.
3. It applies to ALL the other children. Including Raven.
4. Do any of them?
5. See question 2.
6. I assume you mean Thunderbird. (She says that in the episode.)
Todd Jensen writes...
In "Eye of the Storm", Erik and Gunther's surname was "Sturluson". Was this an allusion to Snorri Sturluson, the author of the Prose Edda (one of the leading primary sources on Norse mythology)?
Greg responds...
Absolutely, my friend.
Sloth writes...
Did Goliath, elisa, Angela & Bronx return to Avolon in between every world tour episode? If so was it just to go there and quickly leave, or did they have more adventures there? And when they leave do they just sail into the mist and land where ever Avolon wants?
Greg responds...
Yes.
Sometimes it was quick and leave. Sometimes they stayed longer. Sometimes they arrived at sunrise and HAD to stay.
Yes.
Please, do me a favor and number your questions in the future.
Sloth writes...
The show states that gargoyles can withstand very cold tempretures, but how about hot? I'm asking cause Goliath and co fly close to the Magma in two volcanos and seems fine. BTW, can volcanos be like that and not be active?
Greg responds...
On Avalon they can. I'm not an expert otherwise. But I also never said they were NOT active.
Gargoyles raised in Scotland don't do quite as well in the heat. But they are generally pretty tough cookies. They can take most anything for brief periods of time.
matt writes...
just watched "The Hound of Ulster", and (arn't you surprised?) i had some questions:
1. when the Banche saved Goliath, Elisa, and Angela from drowning in the bog, how did she do it? did she transport them to that chamber, or was that chamber directly below the bog or what?
2. How old is Rory? and how old is Molly? Rory said he was out of school and i'm asuming he means high school... so is he, 19? 20?
3. after the episode, what and how much did Rory tell his father? everything?
and as Gargoyles is known for its foreshadowing:
4. when Goliath said, "A whole clan of gargoyles could not batter down these walls!" were you thinking of the Irish garg clan you've said existed being in that same chamber ever?
5. Rory said, "The Hound of Ulster? Sure, and dwarves made me shoes..." well, the hound turned out to exist, so DID dwarves make Rory's shoes? :)
Greg responds...
1. She transported them.
2. I don't have that information with me at this time. But he's under 20 in that episode.
3. I'm not committing to that right now.
4. Ditto.
5. Not the ones he was wearing at that moment. But the Nike's he had back in his closet.
Todd Jensen writes...
When you first had Xanatos and Owen mention the Emir in "The Edge", did you know that he'd feature in an episode in a prominent role at that time? Did you when you got to their mention of him in "Double Jeopardy"?
Greg responds...
Edge - No.
DJ - I was beginning to suspect that everything would eventually be used.
Anonymous writes...
Are there actual gargoyles that resemble Raven's clan of illusion?
Greg responds...
Not particularly.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...
Ok, this has been on my mind for a while, and checked the archives and didn't find it there.
What was Raven hoping to gain by driving everyone away from Queen Florence Island in "Heritage". I don't really understand his motivations there.
Greg responds...
I used to live on Queen Florence Lane in Woodland Hills, California.
He was looking to gain power. Queen Florence Island was a place of power. He didn't want to share.
Sloth writes...
Was there a point To Xanatos finding out that Goliath was missing in "Kingdom" other than to prove that Brooklen is a good desision maker? Xanatos did meet up with Goliath in Arazona, but that seemed to be a coincidence that he turned to his advantage in finding Cyotie (the trickster, not the robot :^). Was this a point you wanted to expand more on?
Greg responds...
Yes, it was. Never got to it, unfortunately.
But there's an untold story in there somewhere.
Todd Jensen writes...
This is something that I should be posting later, ideally, since you haven't yet gotten to the Avalon World Tour episodes in your ramblings, but I finally decided that I needed to let this out of me soon, so I'm doing so now.
I've noticed, over the years since I discovered "Gargoyles" fandom on the Internet, that many people didn't like the Avalon World Tour for various reasons (the length of time, the absence of Hudson and the trio, the focus on myth and fantasy aspects rather than more "mundane" elements like crime-fighting, etc.). On the other hand (while I may have had my moments of wondering when Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx were going to get back to New York), I quite liked the World Tour. To a certain extent, I'll admit that I'm biased - my tastes naturally run towards fantasy/myth elements. But after doing a little thinking on this one, it increasngly struck me that, aside from all that, something of the nature of the Avalon World Tour was a must for "Gargoyles" at some point.
The reason for this is that the World Tour served a very crucial purpose (besides the general one that you mentioned of expanding the "Gargoyles Universe"). It made it clear that Goliath, his clan, and Demona weren't the only gargoyles left. And that was a crucial step. Because if they really had been, the gargoyle species would have been almost irrevocably doomed to extinction, with only seven members left, only one of those seven a female, and that one estranged from all the rest and very unlikely to reconcile with them. Goliath and the others would have been the "last gargoyles", not only in the sense of being the only ones left, but also in the sense that no new gargoyles would come along after them.
If that had been the case, it would have obviously made a rather depressing series. Admittedly, having the main character be the "very last of his kind" wouldn't necessarily be utterly melancholy - Superman is the very last Kryptonian, and his story's an upbeat one, on the whole. But the situation there's different; Superman's alien origin is treated more as a plot device to explain his abilities, so his being "the last of his kind" doesn't appear quite so melancholy. Goliath and his clan's "gargoyleness", however, was treated in the series from the start as a crucial part of them and their very nature, rather than a similar handy plot device to allow them to serve as effective protectors of New York. And also, it was clear enough from the start that an important part of the series would be the gargoyles seeking to make peace with humanity, to overcome the fear that so many humans view them with. Such a quest would have been futile (in a sense) if they were the last of their kind - the understanding on humanity's part of the true nature of gargoyles would come too late to avert the race's extinction - the best that the gargs would be able to hope for in such a situation was that they might be able to live out their last years without the general human population hunting them down, but still aware that there would be no new gargoyles after them. Not very happy.
So there'd obviously have to be gargoyles living in other parts of the world to ensure a future for the species. And Goliath and his clan would have to come into contact with those other gargoyles for the audience to see that they weren't the last. But the clan's situation would make that tricky. For one thing, there'd be the obvious transportation problems - they can't simply hop aboard the next plane bound for London or Japan. And given how secretive gargoyle clans would obviously have to be in modern times, even if Goliath and Co. had a mundane means of transportation to wherever it was that one of these clans was living, they would certainly not be likely to find out about these other clans easily. The only solution to both questions that wouldn't feel contrived was magic - as in the magic of Avalon that sends you where you need to be. That way, Goliath could be brought to the locations of the clans in London, Guatemala, and Ishimura in a convincing fashion.
So I think that the Avalon World Tour was indeed a practical must for the series, to allow the crucial moment when the clan can learn, as Hudson put it in "The Gathering", "We're not alone. We're not the last."
Greg responds...
Hey, pal, I'm with you.
From moment one, we wanted to present an OPTIMISTiC world view, that mirrored Goliath's own. (Not that he hasn't had a bad moment or mood or two.)
The World Tour was a necessity from that stand point for all the reasons you stated.
Plus it was a necessity given some of my future plans. 2198 immediately comes to mind. But there was other stuff too.
Anonymous writes...
What was the purpose of the episode Cloud Fathers? Was it to introduce Coyote the trickster or Beth?
Greg responds...
There were many purposes. (Though Beth had already been introduced.) Mostly, I thought it was a good story.
Anonymous writes...
Did you have plans for Tea's hunter friends?
Greg responds...
For the poachers. No. Nothing specific at this time. But you never know. I'm not a particularly wasteful guy.
Anonymous writes...
Whatever happened to that guy and his son that we saw in eye of the storm? Do you have plans for them?
Greg responds...
Erik and Gunnar. Yes.
matt writes...
obviously Elisa told Matt about many of the World Tour adventures (i.e. Hunters Moon- Easter Island Statues) did she tell him about the New Olympians? did she tell any other humans? did Goliath and co. tell the trio and Hudson about the New Olympians?
Greg responds...
My guess is that Elisa told Matt some of their adventures, but not everyone. She probably left out the New Olympians as (a) not her secret to reveal and (b) not the most fun adventure for her.
But I'm guessing that either Goliath or Angela eventually told Hudson and the Trio EVERYTHING.
Justin writes...
Hey Greg, it's been awhile since I posted.
My question is
1) Was it Avalon's magic that enabled Goliath and co. to talk to Zafiro, Kai etc. during the world tour?
2) If yes then would the residents of New Olympus speak some Mediterranean language?
Thanks
Greg responds...
No. Those other guys spoke English. (Not exclusively, but they were clearly fluent.)
durax writes...
<i>You said that the yeti would be seen in Gargoyles for sure. Is it an animal elated to the gargoyles or a gargoyle.
--------------------------------------Greg answered---------------
That story is actually written. It was written for Marvel's Gargoyle comic book before it was cancelled.</i>
Would Coldstone have been involved with this story?
Greg responds...
Yes.
Anonymous writes...
You said that the scenario in Bushido was purposely similar to that surrounding the Wyvern massacre so was the scenario of the two were panthers purposely similar to MacBeth's and Demona's scenario which is a fay giving mortals extraordinary power for a price?
Greg responds...
Parallels exist so deep in the tapestry, that I won't deny them here. But I wasn't conscious of it, no.
Anonymous writes...
Whats the difference between Shangri-La and Xanadu?
Greg responds...
Look it up.
matt writes...
ok, if you won't answer what other World Tour episodes you had "planned" besides the Himalayas and Korea, what were some ideas you had for other possible locations?
Greg responds...
I'm sorry. What's the difference between these two questions?
Todd Jensen writes...
You indicated in one of your recent responses that Shangri-La came to mind as the site of a possible, but unmade, Avalon World Tour adventure. What I'm curious about is whether it'd be possible to include Shangri-La in "Gargoyles". I believe that it was invented by James Hilton in his novel "Lost Horizon", written and published in the 1930's, which could make it a little too recent to be quite in the public domain as yet, though I'm not certain on that.
Greg responds...
Yeah, I'm not certain either. Shangri-La was mentioned in passing in the comic book story that I wrote for Marvel, which was never published. That was allowed, because it was a "diminimous" reference.
Before I actually set an adventure there, I'd need to make sure I was legally allowed to. If in fact, Shangri-La was created by Hilton and wasn't in the public domain, I'd probably shift to something like Kun-Lun. Tell the same kind of story there.
You know, on a related note, we did check Brigadoon (which was mentioned in a similar diminimous fashion in the Gargoyles/Captain Atom/Justice League Europe parody story I wrote, which WAS published by DC Comics) way back when, as a kind of proto-Avalon. We found out that wasn't legendary, but a creation of the modern non-public domain musical. So I went with my initial plan and used Avalon.
matt writes...
in "The Gathering" when Goliath and co. arrived in New York what happened to the Avalon Skiff? did it sink as Arthur's skiff had done in London? if the just left the skiff in the lake or river could anyone have gotten in it and accidently gone to Avalon?
Greg responds...
It sank. But even if it hadn't, you need to know the incantation to get to Avalon.
matt writes...
besides the Himalaya w/ Coldstone episode and the Korean garg episode were there any other possible World Tour eps planned? if so, where would they have taken place?
Greg responds...
Define "planned".
Shangri-La comes to mind.
matt writes...
when Derek was mutated into a panther like mutate did you have "Mark of the Panther" in mind? i found it really great that Diane was telling this story about humans turning into panthers, which is kinda what happened to her son, and then is still surprised when the were-panthers change, and again has seen Derek as a pseudo-gargoyle and still is shocked by the gargoyles in Nigeria with Elisa!
Greg responds...
We suspend our disbelief. And eventually, nothing seems too weird, I suppose. But from Diane's POV, I don't think that's automatic. It's a step-by-step process. One thing doesn't lead into another.
And no, we didn't have "Mark" in mind when we planned Talon. Talon developed out of a character called Catscan in our original development. But we did have Talon in mind when we wrote "Mark".
matt writes...
how does the World Tour thing work? do the travelers return to Avalon after every stop in the real world, or only sometimes, or only when the spell is cast? who would cast this spell among Goliath and co. and Jade and Tequesa?
Greg responds...
They returned in between every "real world" adventure. Though sometimes only long enough to start out again.
Either Goliath or Angela would tend to cast the spell. Either Jade or Turquesa could do it, once they learned how.
Tanika writes...
Hello, Greg!
I was recently reading a Nigerian folktale, "Nana Miriam," (in the book "Not One Damsel in Distress," bu Jane Yolen) which reminded me of some questions I had about "Mark of the Panther," and brought up some new ones.
1. Specifically, two of the characters in the tale are named Fara Maka and Kara-Digi-Mao-Fosi-Fasi. What is the relation of those people/names to the character of Fara Maku and the city of Kara-Digi? (Were those the correct spellings of the names in the episode?)
2. Was the tale of Anansi and the panther woman an actual folktale, or did you (or someone else) write it for the show?
3. If it was written, what elements, such as the character of Anansi himself, were drawn from actual legend?
4. If it is an actual legend, what elements, if any, were changed or adapted to suit the purposes of the episode?
Thank you . . . this is something I've been wondering about for some time. :)
Greg responds...
1. You're spelling's correct as far as the episode's concerned. Those names came to the show from either writer Lydia Marano or story editor Brynne Chandler. I don't know where they got them from. But you could ask Lydia and Brynne at this year's Gathering in Los Angeles. (I'm really shilling up a storm, aren't I?) Both of them will be attending.
2. I pretty much made that up. Though I tried to base Anansi's actions and responses on folk tales that I had read about him.
3. Mostly, Anansi. Other things which I had probably absorbed subconsciously. Again, Brynne and Lydia might have also added touches of their own from legend.
4. See above.
(The Guppi) writes...
[1] The first time I watched _Possession_ I pretty much took it for granted how much Coldfire and Coldsteel resembled 'Desdemona' and 'Iago'. It makes sense when you're used to half-baked comic book logic (not to disrespect your own fine work in the field), but Gargoyles takes great pains to create a more, erm, well-done and realistic (or at least snarkily pseudo-scientific :P) universe. On later viewings, I was compelled to contemplate further. The techniques used in creating the Steel Clan wouldn't apply here, I think. The techies at Scarab Corp. (or wherever) probably had lots of old security tapes of Goliath to pore over as much as they liked, but it's hard to imagine how that'd work with the Legionnaires. Was the likeness of design only in animation, then?
[2] Likewise, with the the WWII statue in London, which off-the-bat was recognizable as being of Goliath and Griff. Was its sculptor working solely off of Sir Douglas' accounts? (Pilots are generally more observant than the average bear, and from the impression he made on you as a kid, he musta made one heckuva eyewitness. It still is kind of a stretch, though...)
Greg responds...
1. You're forgetting Puck. And various memory chips inside Coldstone.
2. I always thought that that statue was funded by Leo and Una. Ostensibly as a memorial to the Battle of Britain, but really as a memorial to Griff and Goliath.
Ambrosia writes...
I was just driving around yesterday and something came to me that I thought I'd ask you.
In Sentinel, Elisa appears to be kidnapped by this huge... *monster* from the perspective of the doctor and Duane and co. No doubt all sorts of awful thoughts are running through their minds so when they find her again at the end of the episode, I'm sure they really want some answers. So when Elisa suggested to Nokkar that these people could be his new allies and he went off to talk with them, did Nokkar tell them the *whole* story? About who the gargoyles were and that he was the one who gave Elisa her amnesia? If they know about gargoyles now, they could be allies to the clan as well.
Thanks for your time! Happy Holidays!
Greg responds...
Very likely.
matt writes...
how many eggs are in guatemala in 1996?
what year were the other clan members destroyed?
having the ability to function in daylight, wouldn't it be a top priority for the pendant wearers to watch over the pyramid, clan, and amulet during the day? why then were ALL four of them away the day the pyramid was raided and the clan destroyed? were they tricked?
Greg responds...
I don't think they were intentionally tricked, but it worked out that way.
I don't have the chronology solidified yet, but I figure there are between twenty and forty eggs.
Faieq writes...
Quite some time ago you told us some of the religions of the humans and you asked whether you'd missed anyone. No-one major, but I was just wondering if you've given any thought in the religions of the following people:
1)Margot Yale
2)Brendan
3)Officer Morgan
4)Fara Maku
5)Taya
6)Taoro
7)The Emir
8)Travis Marshall?
I know most of these are very minor characters and that you probably haven't given any thought into them, but I was just wondering.
Greg responds...
1. Wasp.
2. Wasp.
3. I'm not sure. Christian of some denomination.
4. He practices the ancient religion of his people.
5. Is this Tea? I don't think she practices anything.
6. I'm not sure who you mean?
7. I'm sure he was Muslim originally. He's dead now.
8. I think he probably comes from a Protestant background, but I don't see him as being very religious now. Godless media and all that.
Joxter writes...
Sooo... Why *was* Margot Yale in Paris? Coincidentally at about the same time as the Avalon tour group?
Greg responds...
Vacation.
Sapphire writes...
Was the Panther Queen a Fay
Greg responds...
No.
Tim writes...
Just thought you might like to know that Toon Disney channel ran a marathon of each and every Gargoyles episode [Minus the Goliath Chronicles. :) ] on Friday the 13th of October from 7 at night to 5 the next morning. I was rather pleased and astonished to see this! Either this was a completely Halloween theme and they needed some appropriate cartoons, or we might actually be getting through to Disney through fan writing and letting them know that YES, we want this show back on the air! Either way it was pretty cool to see Gargoyles all in a row for a page on the T.V. Guide.
A few questions! {A}What exactly did Raven want Queen Florence Island for? {B}Was it his nature as a trickster to oppose Grandmother? {C}What was he going to do with it if he succeded?
Greg responds...
Everyone should e-mail and/or snail mail Toon Disney to say thank you. Did they air "Deadly Force"?
A. His domain.
B. More the other way around.
C. Party!
Sapphire writes...
In the episode Mark of the Panther what was the Panther Queen? was she an ordinary panther or a fay? I was just wondering because the Panther Queen seemed to have the feelings of a human since animals doesn't have human feelings in any sence of the word
Greg responds...
How do you know?
Ed writes...
You established that the Himalayan Coldstone adventure was such that it wouldn't affect the continuity of "POSSESSION" very much. But were there any new parts of the tapestry that would be brought back later on?
Greg responds...
It was designed to fit seemlessly. Eventually, that story would have had repercussions. Still might for that matter.
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