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Cassandra writes...

Cassandra writes...
Since stroking hair is gargoyle equilvant to a kiss, all the times Goliath touched Elisa's hair was a kiss? And how long would it take him to get used to kissing with lips?

Just feeling a trifle silly with that thought. But I seem to remember Goliath touching her hair fondly before they noticed or decided to act on the feelings they have for each other.

Greg responds...

Kissing is special, particularly romantic kissing. I'm not sure one wants to "get used to it" ever. It will always be special to Goliath.

And yes, everytime he touched her hair in any intimate way (as opposed to by accident or incidentally) it was the basic equivalent of a kiss. But by the way, it wasn't often.

recorded on 02-15-01

Okay, to clarify what I was talking about I think I was remembering the end of "Deadly Force". Goliath brushes Elisa's hair back when he tells her to sleep.

I didn't mean "getting used to it" to equal "become blaise about it". More like kissing is a feels-great-still-weird-but-I-like-it situation and Goliath would feel more comfortable with gargoyle display's of affection.

I know they're both mature adults and both of them realize there is going to be a lot of compromising and explaining in their relationship. It's just a quirky idea that popped in my head.

Greg responds...

And an interesting one. But yes, that Deadly Force moment was to Goliath, a kiss equivalent. Not necessarily a romantic kiss. But a caring one.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Cleo writes...

Do you think Gargoyles will ever come back on the air?and if so will there be more episodes on the Goliath-Elisa relationship? P.S.Gargoyles ROCK!

Greg responds...

Yes, I hope so, and yes, I hope so.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Aaron writes...

I'm probably thinking too human on this, but there is one thing that has always bugged me.

Goliath takes such issue to being Angela's parent, but he was ready to adopt Thailog as his son?

I presume he meant in the rookery father sense, although the language seemed a bit off. Maybe because I'd regard a clone, particularily one who was as physically mature as me, as a brother rather then a son. But again, that's just me.

Greg responds...

Adopt is a strong word. He simply was ready to take responsibility and try to bring him into the fold, in the rookery sense.

Cary Bates agreed with you. Wanted to view Thailog as a brother, not a son. But that didn't match up either with the biology or with Goliath's mindset. At least not in my mind.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Tom writes...

Where oh where is this story on the web about Delilah and Goliath going out?
I've looked everywhere and can't find it.
Please help.

Greg responds...

I haven't written it. I've just talked about it on occasion. Here and at various Gatherings over the years.

Response recorded on March 08, 2001

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Mel. Celestial writes...

HiIIII!!!!!
1. Okay, so G&E's relationship is the only bridge, and Clan Manhattan didn't mind it at all; how do the other clans around the world might approve of it ?
2. That priceless look on Hudson's face(The Awakening eps.3), what was he thinking about those two(G&E, of course!), and did he find it appaling at first?

Greg responds...

1. Is this a reference to a previous response? If so, I've forgotten what we were talking about.

2. I'd say he was initially non-plussed. But I think he thought it healthy that Goliath was at least making a connection to a human.

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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matt writes...

if i asked Goliath, "What is the best thing about being a gargoyle?" what do you think (or know) he'd say?

Greg responds...

Something along the lines of "You are asking me to define all that I am in but a few words. I haven't the eloquence for the task."

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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Siren writes...

I didn;t see this in the archieves and was just curious...
In Eye of the Beholder, whose idea was it to dress Elisa as Belle from Beauty and the Beast. It just seemed too perfect and at such a good time in the 1st season to do so.
Also a slightly related question...Where did Goliath learn how to ballroom dance? Demona just doesn't seem the type to have done so before 998AD ;)

Greg responds...

That was my idea, I believe.

And Goliath didn't really need to know how to "ballroom dance". He just needed to be strong enough to hold Elisa and move to the music. It wasn't a contest.

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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Justin writes...

Here we go again...
1) Will Goliath and Elisa ever have kids?
2) Will Brooklyn and Katana have kids in the 2008 rookery?
3) Will Lexington?

Thanks

Greg responds...

1, 2, and 3. They will be parents to all the children of the clan.

Response recorded on March 01, 2001

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Memo on "Outfoxed"...

In anticipation of watching "Outfoxed" anyday now, I'm going to go ahead and post the memo I wrote to Cary Bates, after he turned in his outline for that episode, originally titled, "After the Fox".

WEISMAN 11-27-94

Notes on "After the Fox" Outline...

GENERAL
Well, one of the advantages of having you as one of my story editors is that I can be brutally honest. We got some problems here. The main one being that the story doesn't get going in earnest until the last scene of Act Two. We're horribly padded here. Normally, I would give this back to you for a second draft outline, but -- my fault -- I didn't read it in time. So I'll beat it out here.

FOX vs. RENARD
First off, let's make Renard the last name. I know I said it was o.k. to make Renard the first name, but the more I thought about it, the more I didn't want Fox's only connection to the Renard/Fox name to be that it was her father's first name. I don't think she could admit to herself that she was borrowing anything from him. So let's make her given name Janine Renard. He still calls her Janine. She rejects that and has her name legally changed to her nom de guerre: Fox. (Like Cher or Madonna, it's just the one word. Remember, she was a performer.) The "Fox" is the part of herself that she believes in. The irony, of course, is that the name did come from her father.

I don't think Fox consciously hates her father. I don't think she consciously admits to having feelings that could cloud her judgment. There's no vengeance kick here. No line of dialogue where she says she wants to see him suffer or that she only saved his life so she can continue to torture him. That all may be subconsciously true, but if so, she doesn't realize it. Remember, she's Xanatos' perfect mate. Neither her nor her husband get that emotional. They enjoy the game for its own sake. Playing it against her father may give it a special tang, but from her point of view, there's only one reason to do this: Cyberbiotics. She wants it, so she decides to take it. If it wasn't worth having, she wouldn't have bothered.

CYBERBIOTICS
The investor scenario doesn't work. Just because the investors aren't killed, doesn't mean these five terrorized guys are now gonna invest. The damage is done. The stock price will still fall and Cyberbiotics will still belong to Fox by close of business tomorrow.

The solution, I believe, is to change the location. Renard has just rebuilt the CYBERBIOTICS AIR FORTRESS. He's determined to prove that it's safe and effective. It's a corporate icon, like the Good Year Blimp -- and the public does think it's really cool -- but it's still not the smartest investment. It's hybris. Worse... it's Euro-Disney. Renard's had to invest way too much to rebuild it. If it's destroyed so soon after it's reconstruction, Cyberbiotics will be bankrupt and easy prey for Fox. This'll tie in nicely with Goliath's growing sense that he owes Renard a debt. Goliath helped destroy the first Air Fortress. Now, he must save the second one. And if you save the ship, you save the company from Fox.

INTEGRITY: GARGOYLE vs. HUMAN
For once, this should not be an issue. Renard accuses Goliath of not having as much integrity as humans do. But Renard doesn't believe humans have very much integrity -- that's why he's automated his operations -- so we're arguing the wrong premise. Integrity is not the province of either race. Deep down, Goliath may have a vague prejudice that gargoyles are generally more honest than humans, but in his head he knows that his race does not have a monopoly on integrity. Thanks to the events of our pilot, Renard may have a general mistrust of gargoyles, but that's not the point he should be making. Renard firmly believes that integrity is an absolute. You have it. Or you don't. Cut and Dry. Black and White. He's got it. Most humans don't, including Xanatos and his daughter. Machines can be programmed with absolutes. People can't. So he's populating his world with machines. His assumption is that Goliath is no better than Xanatos and that all of the creature's protestations about being duped are nothing more than whining excuses. Will Goliath take responsibility for his actions or won't he? Let's not distract this important theme, with issues of race.

Though I loved the line: "You're gargoyle enough to admit it."

VOGEL
Who is this guy exactly? Security man? Computer programmer? Born-again? Was he hired on a project basis to complete the automation? Is he helping Fox because he knew Renard was going to fire him? Has Vogel automated all of Renard's operations or just the security? If it's just the security, than what are they securing? Why does he repent? Basically, the character is coming across as very vague and contradictory. We have to clean this up.

Let's also make sure we fit Vogel into our theme. He is corrupted by Fox. Ultimately, Renard will use Vogel as another example of why humans cannot be trusted. But Goliath will point out that the cybots were just as corruptible, while incapable of experiencing a change of heart, as Goliath has had.

THE TITLE
"After the Fox"... I don't get it. Am I missing something?

BEAT OUTLINE
ACT ONE
1. Open quietly with FOX at the EYRIE BUILDING. She turns on the evening news. TRAVIS MARSHALL is on the air, reporting from JFK or LaGuardia or wherever. It is the Maiden Voyage of FORTRESS-2, the CYBERBIOTICS airship. Marshall had hoped to get an interview with the reclusive head of Cyberbiotics, HALCYON RENARD, but has to settle for Renard's right-hand man VOGEL. Fox watches all this with some interest.

2. Out at the airfield, Marshall, a tough journalist, questions the wisdom and expense of Fortress-2, particularly since FORTRESS-ONE crashed into the river last year. Vogel counters that the cause of that crash was an act of corporate espionage that was only successful thanks to human error on the part of Fortress-One's crew. Fortress-2 is fully automated, run by patented CYBOTS. Human error is not possible. No humans aboard at all? After this test flight, human scientists will occupy it's laboratories to research new wonders, but there is no human crew, except for Vogel and Mr. Renard, himself. Marshall asks if it's true that Renard has invested all of his personal fortune into Fortress-2, and that if it doesn't perform both he and Cyberbiotics will be ruined. Vogel has no comment on that, and heads inside the ship.

3. We follow Vogel, as he heads for the command center. Everything is automated, and there are little Cybots everywhere. All with very specific functions. No waste. At the command center, Vogel contacts Renard in his private office, elsewhere on board. Cut briefly to a shadowed Renard hovering in his ultra-chair, watching Vogel on a vid-screen. Renard gives permission to launch.

4. Fortress-2 launches. Huge turbines and compressors roar. And GOLIATH and ELISA watch from a nearby roof or hilltop. Goliath claims to be here because he is concerned that XANATOS might attempt to attack this ship, just as he tricked Goliath into attacking the first one. But Elisa probably knows that the air fortress is a symbol of Goliath's own guilt -- a guilt that Goliath has yet to come to terms with. Goliath decides to follow the airship, just to be safe.

5. In the air above Manhattan, a cybot alerts Vogel to their pursuer [Goliath]. Vogel informs Renard. Renard says Vogel knows what to do. (It doesn't hurt if we briefly misdirect the audience into thinking that Renard is a villain.)

6. Goliath glides a short distance behind the airship. Suddenly, flying cybots swarm out of a Fortress-2 hold. There're not very big, and they have very simple attack programming. They fire medium strength stun bolts and they miss more often than they hit. Goliath can swat them away easily. Clearly, these cybots don't seem to be on a par with Xanatos' STEEL CLAN. But if results are what counts, they turn out to be superior. There are just too many of the little things. No matter how many Goliath trashes, there are more coming at him. They hover, which Goliath can't do. And eventually, the stun beams add up. Finally, he gets hit with a barrage of them and passes out. Two larger cybots are waiting to catch him and bring him into the airship. (Let's consistently depict the cybots as mono-functional. Each model capable of doing only one thing.)

7. Inside the airship, Goliath regains consciousness in the brig. The bars on the cell might be bendable for Goliath, but he is forced back by Cybot guards with built-in cattle prods. Vogel is there, and a large metal pneumatic door slides open to finally reveal Halcyon Renard. He floats in on his hover chair. He has silver hair and a very sharp mind -- but he is definitely not "robust and vital".
Renard hovers around Goliath, sizing him up. "So this is what the boys at Gen-U-Tech have been up to. Xanatos must be very proud." Goliath responds that he is neither Gen-U-Tech's creation nor Xanatos'. Renard laughs. Goliath demands to know why he is being held prisoner. "Because if you're my prisoner, than I know you can't destroy Fortress-2 for your master." Goliath: "I have no master." "No? Then why did you do this?" Renard flicks a remote button on his chair, and the walls slide back to reveal a large screen. Another button, and video clips from "Awakening, Parts IV and V" show Goliath's participation in the destruction of Fortress-One. Chastened, Goliath tries to explain that he had been duped by Xanatos: "It wasn't my fault." But Renard doesn't let up: "It's not my fault. It's not my fault. You sound like all my human employees. My former human employees. Crush them all together and you couldn't squeeze an ounce of personal integrity from the lot of them. Don't make excuses, creature! Take responsibility for your actions! Stop whining!"
"I DO NOT WHINE," says Goliath, as he rips the bars off his cell and uses them to smash his cybot guards. But Renard doesn't even flinch. "You don't whine, but you also don't hesitate to destroy more of my personal property." He presses another button, and two stun cannons on his chair blast at Goliath until he is knocked out again.
Vogel apologizes. "All my fault, sir. I'll make sure he can't get out of the next cell." We see that Renard respects Vogel for taking the blame. A cybot informs Vogel that he has an incoming personal call. Renard exits, not wanting to impose on Vogel's privacy.
As Cybots drag the unconscious Goliath away, Vogel turns to a vid-screen and activates it. Reveal Fox on the other end. Is it safe to talk? Mr. Renard always respects my privacy. Is Vogel ready to sabotage Fortress-2? He is if the money's been deposited in his Swiss Bank Account. All taken care of. Vogel: "Then we're ready. And the good news is..." He looks at Goliath. "We've got a perfect candidate to take the blame."

ACT TWO
8. A short time later, Goliath awakens shackled to a wall in a new cell, with MUCH thicker bars, and even more cybot guards. Renard is there in his hover chair, brooding. If only Goliath could make him understand that Xanatos is to blame. But Renard: "Oh, I have no doubt of that. You aren't the first poor soul Xanatos has corrupted. Owen Burnett. Anton Sevarius. They both were Cyberbiotics employees... and they're the least of what that viper has stolen from me. I've no doubt he was behind the attack and no reason to doubt that he tricked you into participating." But if that's so, than why does Renard hold Goliath responsible? "Someone has to. And you obviously don't." It doesn't matter to Renard whose idea it was. It doesn't matter whether Goliath believed he was doing the right thing. Now he knows the truth. What's he going to do about it? Goliath grimly rattles his chains, then says, "I think a better question might be, what are you going to do about it."

9. Xanatos and Fox are working on their Kung Fu at the Eyrie Building. Make a point of showing that they are evenly matched. While they fight, they talk casually. Xanatos: "Weren't you mounting a hostile take-over of Cyberbiotics today? Your not having second thoughts about taking it from old man Renard?" Before she can answer, OWEN enters to alert Fox of a phone call from her physician. When Xanatos looks concern, she misinterprets and tells him not to worry: Cyberbiotics will be hers before morning. And as she says hello into the phone, we cut...

10. In the command center, Vogel instructs a random cybot to shut down for repairs. When it does, he opens it up and installs a chip into it's programming matrix. Then he reactivates the cybot, but when it turns on, an arc of electricity flashes around it, briefly. Vogel taps it on the head. Off you go.

11. Goliath and Renard are still talking practical philosophy. Renard has been brooding over the question of what to do with Goliath. He's trying to decide what the honorable thing would be. He'll probably just turn him over to the authorities. Goliath is aghast. "Look at me, human. Is that an equitable punishment? Was my crime against you heinous enough to justify turning me into a laboratory specimen?" Renard smiles. "Well, we're making progress. You've finally acknowledged that you committed a crime."

12. Elsewhere on the ship, the first cybot that Vogel infected passes another cybot. The same arc of electricity shoots out of the second 'bot. Then both 'bots move off and infect two more...and so on... and so on... and so on...
On Vogel's read-out screen, the percentage of cybots infected keeps rising. 13%... 27%... 32%...

13. Goliath eyes Renard. Almost despite himself, Goliath is beginning to regard the man with a grudging respect. "All right. I've admitted I was wrong. No more excuses. Now what?" But Renard doesn't have any easy answers for him. "Integrity is not easy. It is a daily struggle. A costly struggle. If you only knew what it cost me. My Anastasia. My Janine." Goliath lowers his head, "...my angel..." Renard looks at him closely. "So you do know." Goliath speaks slowly: "I know I owe you a great debt for what I did a year ago. And a greater debt for the education I received tonight. If the text was not new to me, it was at least... worth revisiting."
Now during this entire conversation, a cybot enters and approaches a guard cybot by the door. The guard cybot is infected, and approaches the other cybot by the door and infects it. Neither Goliath nor Renard notice until the cybots flanking Goliath's cell are infected and the arcing electricity catches the attention of both.

14. On Vogel's screen the percentage goes up from 99% to 100%, and "Right on cue" he gets a vid-call from Renard. He affects panic. Somehow that creature in the brig has infected every cybot on board with a computer virus. Renard says, "Nonsense. I've been sitting here talking with him the whole time." Vogel doesn't know how Goliath did it. But the Cybots are not responding to commands. They've set Fortress-2 on a collision course with the CYBERBIOTICS TOWER. They must abandon ship and activate the emergency self-destruct mechanism or both installations will be destroyed, and Cyberbiotics will be history. Renard is beside himself: If Fortress-2 is destroyed than Cyberbiotics is ruined anyway. Vogel shakes his head, flips a switch and a 10 minute time counter appears on the vid-screen. "I'm sorry, sir. You can place the blame on me if you must, but now we have no choice. At our present rate of speed we will hit the tower in ten minutes. You have nine minutes to meet me at the escape pod. After that I will jettison, and use my access code to destroy Fortress-2."

ACT THREE
15. Goliath offers to help Renard try to save the ship. Renard is so furious, he's half ready to believe that Goliath was responsible. But Goliath knows that Renard doesn't really believe that. Goliath helped destroy Fortress-One. "Let me help to save Fortress-2." Renard agrees and presses a button on his chair which releases Goliath. The Cybot guards interpret this as an escape attempt. Renard cannot override them. But between Goliath and Renard's hover-chair, they manage to destroy the cybot guards. They leave the brig. The seconds tick away.

16. Vogel monitors them from the comfortable escape pod. He can't believe the old fool is going to try to save the ship. Why doesn't he just admit defeat and head for the escape pod? Vogel's made sure that route is clear of cybots. He'll just have to discourage anymore heroics. He orders all the cybots to kill the creature and drive Renard toward the pod. (Note: he does NOT want to kill Renard.)

17. Now every cybot on the ship is against Goliath and Renard. The little flying ones that knocked Goliath out in the first place. The big ones that carried him inside. More cattle-prod guard 'bots. Zippy little messenger 'bots. Maintenance 'bots. All of them. The good news is that in the airship's small corridors, there are only so many that can go at our heroes at once. But the situation is intolerable. They can't destroy the 'bots one at a time. They need to cut off power to all the cybots at once. And it's possible. There's a power station at the center of the ship that transmits power to all the cybots. But if they destroy that then they destroy the cybots that pilot the ship. There won't be time to get to the power station, shut it off and then go to the bridge. They have to split up. And time is ticking away. And the Tower gets closer and closer.

18. Intercut between Goliath fighting his way to the power station; Renard fighting his way to the bridge, and Vogel getting very nervous in the escape pod. [Turns out that even Vogel didn't know how much the old guy had grown on him. Destroying his empire is one thing. But Vogel is no killer. He doesn't want Renard's death on his conscience. And/or he had explicit instructions from Fox that Renard not be killed.] And time is ticking away. And the Tower gets closer and closer.

19. Goliath gets to the power station and destroys it. All the 'bots shut down. But time is ticking away. And the Tower gets closer and closer.

20. With the cybots down, Renard is able to zoom the rest of the way to the bridge quickly. He puts Fortress-2 on manual override, but time has passed the nine minute mark. The tower looms right in front of him and navigation and the helm are located on two different consoles. At the last second, Vogel appears and between the two of them, they are able to turn the ship away from the tower and save it.

21. Aftermath between Renard and Goliath. At first, Renard is bitter. Vogel has confessed his betrayal. Further proof that the human species is devoid of integrity. But Goliath disagrees. Vogel's example hardly proves the wisdom of putting one's trust in single-minded automatons. Automatons are tools. They know nothing of honor or betrayal. They do what they are programmed to do. But a living being knows nothing of programming. A living being must choose. And, ultimately, Vogel chose honor.
Renard lets all that sink in. He's got a lot to think about, but one thing he knows is that Goliath has paid his debt. A ship for a ship. Renard: "We are even." But Goliath: "No... We are friends."

22. Goliath soars off into the night. And he doesn't notice a small hang-glider land on the now defenseless airship behind him. The newcomer abandons the glider and tosses a cloudy ball against the metal hull. The ball shatters and a corrosive substance is released that quickly burns a hole in the hull. The stranger enters the airship, and as she does, we finally get a look at her. It is Fox.

23. Back in Renard's office. He sits in his chair. Quietly. Fox enters behind him, and for a moment we think she's there as an assassin. But he seems to be expecting her. "Hello, Janine," he says. "Hello, Daddy," she replies. "I almost got you that time." "Yes, but why? I built this company for you. I'd have given it to you by now if you hadn't married that villain Xanatos. I'd still probably give it to you if you just stood up and asked me for it honestly." "Oh, Daddy. You and your integrity. Asking for it wouldn't be any fun at all." Renard: "And fun is more important to you than honor. I can't understand that." Fox: "Well, maybe you'll have better luck with the next generation." Renard: "What?" Fox: "That's right, Daddy. You're going to be a grandfather."
FADE OUT.


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Cassandra writes...

Since stroking hair is gargoyle equilvant to a kiss, all the times Goliath touched Elisa's hair was a kiss? And how long would it take him to get used to kissing with lips?

Just feeling a trifle silly with that thought. But I seem to remember Goliath touching her hair fondly before they noticed or decided to act on the feelings they have for each other.

Later.

Greg responds...

Kissing is special, particularly romantic kissing. I'm not sure one wants to "get used to it" ever. It will always be special to Goliath.

And yes, everytime he touched her hair in any intimate way (as opposed to by accident or incidentally) it was the basic equivalent of a kiss. But by the way, it wasn't often.

Response recorded on February 15, 2001

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Tk writes...

Ok, Hi how are you/
This is driving me crazy. I hate going to sites when i don't know what they are talking about. In the achives you said something about Elisa and Golith dating not having to be each other.Was this a episode did i like miss a series or something. What about Delihla (i didn't spell that right)Please explain where did this come from are they your ideas or something.(i'm not dissing them, i'm just confused)Oh and i say pics with the gargs in the street with not panicing people where did that come from.

Oh, and from what i do understand about this one thing which is little,are you trying to break up the star couple. Saying Elisa and Jason could maybe work it out, or something about Morgan. I don't know i just need to know if i missed something or what.

Please help!!!!!

Greg responds...

"Elisa and Golith dating not having to be each other"

I don't know what that phrase means. That can't be an exact quote of mine, can it?

Proofreading would help, Tk.

But I gather you are referring to a story that I did NOT get around to doing. A story where Elisa and Goliath would temporarily break up. Where they would go on a double date on Halloween. Goliath with Delilah. Elisa with either Jason or Morgan. (I hadn't decided which.) And no, I wasn't breaking them up. The double date would be a fiasco -- for a number of reasons. And E & G would wind up a couple again.

Does that help?

Response recorded on February 15, 2001

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Mel. I. C. writes...

ME Again! Hi!!!
1. If G. an' E. really,REALLY want a kid together, thought of Titania or Xanatos offering them the chance, would they choose sorcery or science?
2. Any other gargs and humans out there pursuing relationships like G & E??

Greg responds...

1. Ultimately, neither.
2. No.

Response recorded on February 07, 2001

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Corrine Blaquen writes...

I was reading your "beat sheet" for the pilot you drew up, and it seemed that at first you didn't intend for Demona to be Goliath's mate. What made you change it, if you hadn't planned it since the beginning?

Greg responds...

I'm not sure how you could have possibly gotten that impression. It may not have been spelled out on that document, but we always intended that Demona and Goliath were mates.

Response recorded on February 07, 2001

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WereFox writes...

Greg

Just read your rambling about COS part 2 and I must confess I didn't ever pick up on Goliaths intention on killing Demona. It makes sense even though it would have been futile. Still, say he did try it (Big IF I know), I wonder what her reaction would be. As often as she's thrown his feelings for her back in his face, she'd view his attempt to kill her as a sign that his sentimental weakness regarding her was over. On the other hand, would it be so shocking that Demona would express sorrow that Goliath's feeling for her had so diminshed that he was capable of killing her?

Greg responds...

I think she'd be effected on many levels, including those you've named.

Response recorded on February 01, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

Addressed to "matt":
About Goliath "abandoning" the eggs: There IS no justification for him leaving the responsibility of taking care of the eggs to Princess Katherine and the Magus. BUT I do "understand" why. Perhaps it was because he was so depressed and traumatized he couldn't think things all the way through. Perhaps because he didn't feel himself "suitable" or "worthy" of taking care of the eggs and that even the humans would do a better job than he would; he must have blamed himself and not just the captain of the guard and Hakon for what happened at Wyvern. He must have felt he deserved the fate of the surviving members of the clan. And it seems that you have forgotten how sincerely remourseful the Princess and Magus were toward Goliath and how they offered to do anything they could for him. It wasn't as if they grudgingly offered to help him; so they were not very likely to go back on their promise. Also he is mortal and imperfect, and as an imperfect being he made a bad decision. Everyone makes a bad decision, and no one is codoning it, I just want to make sure you understand that.

Greg responds...

What he (or she) said.

Why "Anonymous"?

Response recorded on February 01, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

Hi! I'm Mel from Malaysia and I just wan't to tell you that how much that I'm REALLY hooked and into your original and unique cartoon and it's colourful characters I adore. Well, actually, I do have a vast of shooting questions that might just nip your time away....But you know how Daddies monitor their 17 year old daughters, so I'll just ask a few.
1.I'm so head over heels giddy about the 'steam' between the romantic Duo(G&E), but it also kinda surprises me that the other clan member didn't mind the sparks, I mean, being two different species(I don't mind,REALLY!=]); How come? What did they see within that?
2.Should ever IF THEY have a kid, how'd Demona react to the hybrid

Greg responds...

1. I think that it happened so gradually, that by the time it occured to everyone (but maybe Hudson), Elisa was already part of the family. Too LOVED to be rejected.

2. I don't know how to answer a hypothetical based on a hypothetical. What do I disown first?

Response recorded on February 01, 2001

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matt writes...

i was just thinking about the whole Goliath suicide in "Awakening". at first i really understood why Goliath (being he was the last of his kind)did it but as the season went on and i learned things that Goliath must have known i really couldn't justify Goliath doing what he did. first of there was the eggs. those were 36 more of his kind right there! how could he possibly put 36 CHILDRENS! lives into the hands of the people who not only were cruel to him and cursed his species but were not even qualified to raise 36 children of a different species! then there were the other clans of gargs, two must have been pretty close to the Wyvern clan, the clan formed when the Wyvern clan split up and the Loch Ness clan. there were probably many other clans in the vicinity of the Brittish Isles, like the London clan. finally, there are those rouge gargs, some of which became Demona's clan. if she could find them so could Goliath, and with his leadership, who knows the Macbeth-gargoyle alliance might not have ever happened or might have been successful leading to the gargoyles surviving through the centuries. i have trouble condoning Goliath's decision and despite what would later happen in the series i think he made a very bad decision at the time.

Greg responds...

I'm not -- and was never -- asking you to condone it. How could I and how could you? It was a suicide! Hurtful to himself and those who cared about him. Irrevocable, save for an amazing sequence of events that no one could have predicted.

I simply wanted you to understand it.

Response recorded on February 01, 2001

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Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...

A recent comment on the final scene in Hunter's Moon III brought a question to mind. Being typically human I had not realized Goliath putting Elisa's hair behind her hair was an equivilent to kissing- I just saw it as an intimate gesture. Is Elisa conscious of the meaning of stroking hair to to gargoyles?

Greg responds...

Not fully, but she did read it as an intimate gesture, as you did.

Response recorded on February 01, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

Hi, I'm curious...what was life like growing up for Goliath(especially in his warrior-trainee years). I'm wondering whether or not he had a stressful time in his warrior-trainee stage. Well I'm sure he did, I'm just asking you to confirm it(if you can). I'm wondering because I'm curious as to what shaped him(speaking as if he were real) to be the person he is today. Judging from his character attributes(which I absolutely admire; "love" even) I'm sure he had a very hard time when he reached puberty. In my mind I see him as a poor troubled youth who is both admired(for his looks and talents) and absolutely hated(for the same things by his clanmates who were jealous of him). Always torn between the need to succeed to please his elders but not succeed too highly to keep his clanbrothers from hating his guts even more than they already did.

Greg responds...

Actually, I think Goliath was a bit sheltered and naive. Not from danger, of course. He faced plenty of that. But until he got quite a bit older, he was less aware of deceipt.

Given that he took danger as a given, I don't think Goliath would think he had a very tough childhood.

As to his youth and training, that's what GARGOYLES: THE DARK AGES was created to explore (among other things).

Response recorded on February 01, 2001

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Corrine Blaquen writes...

Will Goliath and Demona ever make peace? I realize that they'll never get back together, but would they ever cease being enemies, or maybe even be friends?

Greg responds...

Too soon to say.

Response recorded on January 26, 2001

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Vilija writes...

Hi Greg! Happy Christmas! My question this time's on Christmas presents.

What does Goliath want for Chirtmas this year?
(Does he celebrate Christmas? If not, what does he and other gargs celebrate? Winter Solistce?)

How about Demona? (Santa knows she's been naughty, though.)

What'd Elisa like this year?

Thank you, .... Wait! Today's winter solistce! Have a good one. (and a good holiday.)

P.S. What're you wishing for this year?

Greg responds...

I'd lean more toward Solstice than Christmas. And I don't think Goliath is very interested in material possessions.

Demona wants the same old thing. A human-free earth, and all the power, with no guilt.

Elisa -- I think she'd like a quiet night at home with Goliath.

And me? Well, I wanted the video to Ferris Bueller's Day Off. And I got it. YEAH!

Response recorded on January 17, 2001

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Sapphire writes...

What is Goliath's view on homosexuality?

Greg responds...

I don't think he gets why it would even be an issue.

There are many things that might disturb Goliath.

Promiscuity.

Adultery.

Sado-Masochism.

For example.

But neither heterosexuals or homosexuals have the patent on those things.

Response recorded on January 17, 2001

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JADE writes...

Hi Greg,
I was wondering about this: In one show (Which I can't remeber the name) Demona, Angela, and Thailog were in it. What I remember the most about it was that in this show Angela said to Demona "I hate you!" And then Demona started to cry and went and fought with Thailog over something---I think it was something to do with Angela. After that I don't think we saw Demona again, but if Angela and Demona would ever sit down and talk about their feelings for each other, would it ever work out? I mean would Demona go back to the clan, or would her and Goliath work something out so Demona can see Angela once in awhile? I know this question isn't to understand able, mainly because I can hardly remember anything from this part of the show only the "I hate you" thing---but please try to answer the best you can. Thank you.

Greg responds...

I assume you're talking about "The Reckoning".

As for answering your question, I don't have any simple reassuring response. This isn't, for example, as clear-cut as a divorced couple arguing over custody of their teen-age daughter. Demona's a would-be mass murderer. She and Angela have much to work through. Stuff that includes mother/daughter relations, gargoyle/human relations, good/evil, nature/nurture, etc. It's an on-going discovery for both characters. And for Goliath as well.

Response recorded on January 17, 2001

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Demona Taina writes...

Dear Greg:

If the gargoyles' equivalent of kissing is stroking each other's hair, then was Goliath "kissing" Elisa when he tucked her hair behind her ear in "Hunter's Moon III"?

It appears to be so, judging by the look on his face and the soft tone of his voice. He seemed to be expressing his love to her, I suppose, by caressing her hair and lightly touching her cheek. Then Elisa, being a human, jumped and kissed him instead, being the humans' way to express love for someone else.

Well, is this true, or am I totally off? :P

Thank you for your time. :)

Greg responds...

You are right on the money.

Response recorded on January 03, 2001

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matt writes...

what is Goliath's reaction to Broadway and Angela's relationship? what is Demona's?

Greg responds...

I think he's pleased.

Demona's probably conflicted. I don't think she likes Broadway, simply because he's alligned against her. But I don't think she's rooting for her daughter to be alone either.

Response recorded on December 22, 2000

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Faieq writes...

I asked this question before and you responded
"I don't have my timeline with me, so I cannot assume the premise of your question is correct. Please resubmit it."
So now I'm resubmitting it:In 975 Goliath and Demona/'Angel' were 37 chronolgically, I think, and this seems to be a little young to be committing themselves to eacch other (compared to the trio, who were the same age in 994 but were single). Does that mean that the Trio mated late and the rest of their rookery siblings already have mates in 994, or did Demona and Goliath become mates long before their other brothers and sisters?

Greg responds...

I think Goliath and Demona mated a tad young. A few of the Trios contemporaries may have mated at the time of the massacre, but most would not have.

Response recorded on December 22, 2000

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Elisa Ann Goliath writes...

Hi! It's me again! Just wanted to ramble a little bit about E&G's relationship. (And a comment or two would be nice:)
Lately I've been thinking a lot about marital relationships. (You know, what makes a good one. My parents recently had their 41st anniversary, I guess that's why I'm thinking about it.) Now, I'm only 16, and I don't presume to know everything about marriage, but I think I can safely say I have a more realistic view of marriage than most of my peers.
In the series, as a HUGE fan of the E&G relationship, of course my main concern is for E&G to get "married", but really if you think about it, they already have a relationship that is.... I don't know, kind of marriage-like. In the Bible, men are commanded by God to love their wives as Christ loved the church (be willing to die for) and women are to submit to their husbands (like it are not, feminist ladies, it works best this way). With Elisa and Goliath, Goliath loves Elisa with all the tenderness of his heart, is willing to die for her, and he values her and her opinions, and is therefore always asking for her input and for her help. Also, since he loves her, he is not demanding or arbitrary, making it easy for her to submit. She, of course, loves him as much if not more than he loves her, is willing to die for him, and is usually ready to submit when he makes a final decision on something, whether or not it is what she suggested. As a proud, independent woman this cannot always be easy, but she makes the sacrifice because she loves him and because she knows that he is only doing what he thinks is best.
Well, I've just been wanting to get that down on record.
Thanks! TTFN!

Greg responds...

Elisa Ann, I can't let it go. I should, but I can't. Cuz I've got a daughter, and I wouldn't want her to someday read this exchange and think that even by ommision, I might possibly agree with you. I don't agree with the following statement you made: "women are to submit to their husbands (like it are not, feminist ladies, it works best this way)." I don't think it works best that way. I don't see any reason why women in particular should sublimate themselves to men. Why not men to women? Or why submit at all. Why not just be true to yourself, and find someone who compliments that truth? That's how I see Elisa and Goliath. Whether I succeeded or not, that's the kind of relationship I tried to forge between them.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I strongly disagree with it. And I don't see Elisa as even VAGUELY submissive. He respects her. She respects him. Each of them do things at times that the other wishes they would not. Not just Goliath, but Elisa as well. She is strong, proud, independent, loving. All the things you've listed. So is he. EITHER would die for the other. (Not just him for her.) I'm gratified you like their relationship. But I think you have subtly mischaracterized it to fit views you already hold.

Response recorded on December 21, 2000

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Chapter XXI: "Vows"

Written by Shari Goodhartz
Michael Reaves, Story Editor

Benny: "But Daddy, when it's dark they get alive. But when it's light, the get frozen like a statue."

Last night, the kids, my sister, my wife and I all watched "Vows" together. Time to ramble.

Back to the Golden Cup Bakery Building. As I noted in the previously posted memo about this episode, I wanted a little opening battle, but I didn't want to waste time in a tight, packed script explaining how this came about. It does beg the question though. Assume that X contacted Elisa. She told Goliath. He went ALONE? His friends allowed this? Hmmm.

Xanatos knows from the letter to himself what to do, but I sometimes wonder just how detailed the letter was. I like to think it was fairly sketchy. That exactly HOW Xanatos got Goliath to come was his own machinations. Otherwise, though he takes the credit for the letter, the truth is that the plan itself wasn't his idea. He got the idea from the letter. And he wrote the letter based on what he had done, which he had gotten from the letter. None of this is really his to own, though he does claim ownership. So I like to think that at least some of the details were X's. For example, X knows what G will respond to, i.e. Demona.

Hudson, on hearing about the wedding, suddenly makes the connection to the long ago incident when he met the Goliath from the future. So he's strangely ambivalent. Elisa on the other hand, seems flat out jealous to me. After the events of "The Mirror" and "Eye of the Beholder", she's much more aware and focused on her feelings for Goliath. SHE DOES NOT WANT TO ACT ON THOSE FEELINGS. At this time, she thinks it's impossible. But that doesn't change how she feels. And now, she's jealous. Goliath's feelings for Elisa are just as intense, but so are his feelings for the "Angel" of his youth. He HAS to give it one last chance. (And this will be the last chance. The final nail in the coffin of his and Demona's "marriage".) Brooklyn, meanwhile, is just knee-jerk against anything involving Demona.

PETROS XANATOS is introduced. Again, I wonder why he was invited. Was he also included in the letter? Or did Xanatos invite him to prove something to his father. Is X that needy? Or did X invite him to the wedding, because of course he'd invite his father to his wedding, and his already planned "honeymoon" to 975 shouldn't alter his decorum. Perhaps he's mildly surprised his father winds up coming along? Anyway, Petros was a fun character. A tough hard physical man. With morals. A great contrast to the son. I knew even then that we'd give Petros and David an arc to their relationship, (one that eventually would culminate in Gathering2).

"Oh, reason not the need." A little King Lear is always nice. And I love Petros' attitude on the line, "And the armor?" I mean what would you say to your son if you saw him dressed like that? I'd like to know how many people had sort of forgotten that X was even wearing armor (we're so used to it) until Petros made an issue of it?

I love all the irony in the dialogue between Petros and David. David knows what he's planning. He must be smiling when Petros says "I'd like to get my hands on the man who gave you that coin." And when David says, "Someday, I'll prove to you that I'm a self-made man," he must really be patting himself on the back.

I love the voice work of Keith and Marina when doing their teen-age counterparts. So subtle, yet it's always clear which Goliath and Demona is talking at any given moment.

CONTINUITY:
Gotta love that storage room in the clock tower. The Eye of Odin, the Grimorum, half the Phoenix Gate, and, oh, yes, a comatose Coldstone. By the way, despite what the memo said, I think generally, Goliath carried that Gate in the pouch attached to his belt. Not behind some brick. We hadn't actually come up with that pouch yet, not until the World Tour. But using RetCon, I think that's where he kept it until they moved to the clock tower and Demona tried to kill him, Hudson and Elisa in "Long Way to Morning".

One interesting thing: this is the first episode where we actually CONFIRM that the ILLUMINATI does exist. Matt's mentioned it. Even chased it in SILVER FALCON, but we've never been shown any proof of it's existence until now. Was anyone surprised by that?

Judge Roebling was interesting in theory, though not so much in the episode. I'd like to do more with him some day. I also thought that it was interesting that despite seeing the tape of the Gargoyles in advance. And not reacting outwardly when he saw Goliath, he still gasps when Demona enters. What is it about her? When she entered, Benny turned to me and said: "She's queen of the Gargoyles." Oh. So that's it.

(And everytime Xanatos and Fox are on screen together, Benny likes to point out that he and Erin dressed up as them at the last Gathering. "That's me. That's you, Erin.")

To some extent, X must have filled D in on his plan. I love her "acting" when she enters and gives her bitter "excuse" for being there to Goliath. She's playing hard to get!

I love Petros: "Unnacceptable." He's still trying to teach David the error of his ways.

The Gate itself is very idiosyncratic. It's size, the size of its portal, and the duration the portal stays open seems to vary not just from episode to episode but from scene to scene. Sometimes it annoys me, like when Princess Elena removes the Gate from her sleeve, and suddenly it's bigger than her hand. But now I'm just amused by it. Again, if you think of it as a steam valve for the timestream, it explains a lot.

I love the little sound that Paca put in when the two pieces of the Gate first come together. What a tip-off that was, yet it's subtle. Did anyone think about the significance of the talisman that Demona had shared with Goliath before she started speaking in Latin and flames appeared out of nowhere?

It was hard to make people understand the time loop a bit. But it seemed really hard to make them see why I kept wanting to repeat scenes to show the connective tissue. We had to squeeze in Owen's "Honeymoon" line the second time. No one left space for it.

For the first of many times in the series, someone (X) says the line: "It's not where, it's when". (Erin: "I know when.")

I love X & Fox's relationship. "Having fun." "A marvelous time." Great stuff.

Hudson gets a close look at 1995 Goliath and immediately sees the age and wear and tear on the guy. (I love the shot of Goliath gagging him.) That says a lot for Hudson, because the visual difference between the two Gs was extremely subtle in the animation -- when it existed at all.

Knowing what we had planned (more or less) for Avalon, we were already laying groundwork here for that. Setting up the combined power of the Gate, Grimorum and Eye. Setting up the Archmage's desire for that power. Further demonstrating his enmity for the people he'd wind up using. Of course, making Demona his apprentice was fun. Tells a lot about her own desire for power that even when she was a good girl, she was still willing to work for the Archmage in order to learn his secrets. Willing even to steal for him.

The Norman Ambassador and Prince Malcolm make a BIG deal about how odd the Xanatoses' clothes are. But were they THAT strange? Was Fox's wedding gown that odd? And even if they were strange, did they look as shabby as Prince Malcolm seemed to suggest?

Not every episode gives you a double wedding. Fox and David. Elena and Malcolm. Hey, did anyone notice that we married off our lead villain? That was very daring, and we all but threw it away in Act One. Was anyone expecting Fox and X to really get married? And once they were, did you think you'd see them have a kid by season's end? I think we broke new ground there.

I like the exchange between Goliath and Hudson. Goliath's trying to explain that he's not a creature of sorcery, but a time traveler. H: "And I suppose you came back in time on the wind." O.k., well sorcery was involved if you're gonna get technical. And Goliath has some amusing tense problems while trying to describe what happened in his recent past, Hudson's FAR future. Then Hudson looks him in the eye and decides to trust him on no further evidence. Cool.

I knew a girl named Bryant from Bar Harbor, Maine once. That's where we got X's home town.

Fox is so proud of her man. But I love Petros' "Mr. Big-Shot Time Traveler" line. Or rather I love the way Morgan Shepard read the line.

How hard did Demona try to do things differently from the way she remembered them being done? She knows Goliath is going to fly down to try and join her and her younger self. She tries to leave before he can get there. But the gate stays open long enough for him to go with. Did it ever occur to her to go somewhen else other than 994? I guess part of it could be chalked up to dim memory. It was over a thousand years ago. And Demona lived through that 1000 years. Even for a very significant event in her life, it must still be very hazy.

That exchange between Demona and Demona is a lot of fun. Demona is so brutal to Demona. (And, hey, she spells out the Gate's power to any audience member who hasn't yet caught on.) "Do not share it with-- Do not share it!" I love that line. Also:

"I am what you will become."
"I will never be like you."
"I don't want to hurt you."
"And I don't want to BE you."

pretty cool stuff.

I also like the moment when we have two gates rolling about on the floor and young Demona and older Goliath both bend over to pick them up. At first we had a lot of discussion as to who should pick up which gate. But the discussion became moot, since after the gate pieces were reunited, they almost always seemed like they had never been broken in the first place. Magic.

And the young Demona, older Goliath scene is also gorgeous.

"What am I to do?"
"Nothing."

Love that. Love his whole "Do nothing/attend the petty jealousy" speech. I think it's very pretty. Very sad. At that moment, does Goliath hope he's changing the future? Or is he simply trying to spare this young Angel a couple extra decades of pain?

Showing Demona's natural bents again: Goliath isn't sure if he remembers the incantation, though he's heard it multiple times by this point. Young Demona, having only heard it ONCE, does remember and uses the Gate perfectly.

"Time Travel's funny that way." At least it is in the Gargoyle Universe with the strict, strict rules that I imposed. Of course, I've always thought that those strict rules made the stories more challenging for the writer and, yet, more fun and satisfying for the viewer.

I also really like Petros' "American Penny" speech. For once the "Xanatos Tag" of victory doesn't go to David.

Where did the expression "More's the pity." come from? I've heard it many times. I know what it means, though that's more from sound and context than from the words themselves. What am I quoting when I use it? Does anyone know? (This isn't a contest. I really don't know.)

Finally, my tape has the weird mistake ending that first aired, which shows Demona and Goliath in the clock tower. It's pretty, but it drives me nuts and I think it's really confusing. But I've talked about that many times before, and I'm sick of it, so this time, I'll let it go.

COMMENTS WELCOME!


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VOWS memo

Saw "VOWS" last night with the family. I'll ramble on that one shortly, but here's the memo from November '94. Shari Goodhartz wrote the outline, which Michael Reaves edited. Shari's entire story was more or less set at the Eyrie Building. It was about Demona and Xanatos using the wedding to get half of a magical talisman from Goliath. Goliath prevents them from using this macguffin, but realizes once and for all that he and Demona are over.

As I noted below, it seemed like that wasn't enough. So I took ALL of Shari's story and CRUSHED it into Act One. Then I came up with the Time Travel story that was the heart of VOWS. All of Acts Two and Three as presented in the memo below are my work. But I think Shari and Michael did a great job of executing it in this jam-packed episode.

One little tidbit. Petros was my original name for Xanatos' father. (I went to college with a guy named Petros.) But Shari and/or Michael named the dad "Stefan", which I went with here. At the recording session, Marina Sirtis pointed out that the name didn't work for some reason that I can no longer recall. (Aris, any thoughts?) So I jumped in and rechristened him Petros. Later we realized that both Elisa and David had fathers who had been named variations on Peter. To me, that was a very cool thing.

WEISMAN 11-25-94

Notes on "Vows" Outline...

GENERAL
Basically, it still didn't seem like we had enough story. So I compressed what was here and tried to extrapolate forward to fill out acts 2 and 3.

THE TALISMAN
I'm calling it the PHOENIX GATE. It can be used as a gateway to anywhere and anywhen. (The Gate will, I believe, eventually give us our Battle of Britain Story. And give the Archmage a powerful weapon for reaching and conquering Avalon.) By combining the two halves of the Phoenix Gate and invoking the Latin translation of the phrase: "Burn down the walls of time and space!", the gate opens in flame and sucks up anyone in the immediate vicinity, transporting them to the place and time chosen by the invoker. But choosing requires incredible concentration. Otherwise, the chooser's emotional or mental whim of the moment may cause the gate to drop everyone off at Burger King instead of Fort Knox.

TIME TRAVEL
So we're going to do a time travel story. Which means we need to establish traveling rules for our series. I'm going with the most conservative, most restrictive rules possible, because more than any other type of fantasy or science fiction convention, time travel is really subject to logic abuse. So...

Whatever's happened in the past has already happened, including the actions of our time travelers. Recorded history may be incomplete or incorrect, but true history cannot be changed. When Demona and Goliath go back in time to meet the young Demona, both of the older gargoyles are seeking to change or influence the young Demona's history. But this meeting already took place. The older Demona remembers it. (Maybe not every precise detail, and maybe she didn't fully understand the event at the time, but she does remember it.) Whatever influence the modern gargoyles had on her has already been figured into the events that followed, many of which have already been depicted in other episodes. (Sadly, in this case, neither Goliath or Demona had any real sustained influence on the younger Demona at all. That's the tragic flaw of both Demonas. They just never learn.)

WHERE AND WHEN ARE WE GOING?
Castle Wyvern. 975 A.D. The castle is ruled by the 21 year old Prince Malcolm of Wyvern. Malcolm's chief advisors are the 35 year old Captain of the Guard [NOTE: per my recent work on the timeline, the Captain was 29 years old in 975.]; the Archmage (nine years younger than when he appeared in "Long Way to Morning"), and Hudson who is biologically 49. Young warriors, Goliath and Demona are both biologically 19, (in "Long Way..." they were more like 23). If you have space for them, Brooklyn, Lexington and Broadway are all biologically nine. Bronx hasn't hatched yet. In contrast, our modern Goliath is biologically 29 years old and Hudson's 59.

VOWS
That's the theme. Vows. When you keep them. When you can't. Why you do or don't. Don't hesitate to play it up.

STEFAN
In thinking about it, I think Stefan Xanatos should be a naturalized American Citizen living in a north eastern fishing community. Maybe somewhere in Maine. He's still Greek, but he emigrated before David was born. That way, David Xanatos could have been born and raised to pursue (and pervert) the American Dream.

BEAT OUTLINE
ACT ONE
1. Night by some landmark, (maybe the Goldencup Bakery Building or the Cyberbiotics Tower). DAVID XANATOS (in armor) and GOLIATH fight. No stolen Cyberbiotics devices. I really don't want to sweat this scene too much. There are a hundred ways that this could have begun, and in the interest of getting to our main story quicker, I don't want to spend a lot of time "prologing" our prologue. But for the sake of consistency, I'll posit the following: Xanatos left a vaguely menacing message for Goliath with ELISA, whom he can reach easily enough at the precinct house. (The location of the rendezvous itself may have suggested bad news.) Goliath, prepared for a trap but not about to hide from danger, went to the stated rendezvous and, expecting the worse, waded into battle before Xanatos could get a word in edgewise. Well, Xanatos is always up for a little workout, so he fought back with relish, taking his time to reveal the real reason he had asked Goliath to come: He wants Goliath to be best man at his wedding tomorrow night. As a little incentive, he's invited DEMONA, and wrested a promise that she'll be on her best behavior throughout the event. [Reveal as much or as little of the "prologing" as necessary in order to make the scene play.]

2. Clock Tower just before Dawn. HUDSON seems strangely ambivalent, but Elisa and BROOKLYN can't believe Goliath would even consider going to the wedding. They have a hundred reasons each why it's obvious lunacy. Goliath doesn't put up much of a counter-argument. He knows they're right. He won't go. Dawn comes. They all turn to stone. Elisa heads home.

3. Castle during the day. In the courtyard, Xanatos waits for something, still in his armor but with the helmet off. A helicopter lands, piloted by FOX and carrying STEFAN XANATOS, a big, tough, weathered but honest Greek fisherman. Stefan is a little put off by his son's armored attire, but tries at first to make the best of an awkward situation. He is teasingly superstitious about his son seeing Fox on the day of the wedding, but the happy couple make their own luck and patronizingly ignore his concerns, which darkens Stefan's mood. Fox exits to get dressed. David asks his dad, what he thinks of the place. Stefan is frankly appalled by the conspicuous consumption. Why does his son need a place like this? "Oh, reason not the need, father. I wanted it. So I took it." Stefan is disgusted by his son's attitude. Why does he need to wear armor? David assures him, the armor is purely defensive. Defense against what? What kind of life does his son lead? He think David would have been better off being a humble fisherman, like himself: "In fact, if I ever get my hands on the man who sent you that coin, I swear I'll teach him a lesson for meddling with my family." David smiles when his Dad brings up "the coin". That's ancient history, Pop. Besides, that coin was only worth about 20 grand. David's now worth "considerably more". But Dad's not letting him off the hook. If he had never received that coin anonymously, he'd never have become what he is now. "You know, Dad, someday I'm going to prove to you that I really am a self-made man. And that's a promise." Besides, if the castle and the armor upset you, wait until you meet the best man.
On cue, OWEN enters with the JUDGE who is to perform the ceremony. Owen has prepared a little videotape of the gargoyles for Stefan and the Judge to watch. That way, they won't swallow their tongues when they see Goliath and Demona. As they all head inside, Owen questions whether this is necessary, will Goliath really show? He'll be here, Xanatos assures him, "I'd take an oath on it."

4. Back at the clock tower during the day, we push in on the stone Goliath and ripple dissolve to his dream/memory.

5. Castle Wyvern, 975 A.D., night. YOUNG GOLIATH finds YOUNG DEMONA standing on the tower with YOUNGISH HUDSON. Demona seems ridiculously happy to see him. Goliath doesn't want to miss PRINCE MALCOLM'S Wedding. She seems a bit distracted. She looks at Hudson, who says "Go on, then." She and Goliath glide down to one of the upper windows of the Great Hall. From there, they watch this strange human ceremony of bonding, including the exchange of rings. Goliath comments on the beauty of the symbolism or something, and Demona takes out the PHOENIX GATE. She separates the two pieces and hands him one. She swears she will never stop loving him. (If she seems a little too intense, we'll chalk it up at this stage to the emotion of the moment.) Goliath takes his half of the gate, and somewhat awed by her intensity, makes a similar vow. They embrace, stroking each other's hair. (The Gargoyle equivalent of kissing.)

6. Dissolve back out to the Clock Tower at Dusk. Goliath and the others explode awake. Goliath goes to a secret hiding place in the clock tower. (Behind the comatose, COLDSTONE, perhaps.) We see the GRIMORUM and the EYE OF ODIN, as well as Goliath's half of the Gate. (He had hidden it a thousand years ago in a hollow brick at the castle, which Xanatos had transported to NYC unaware of its contents. Goliath had retrieved it before moving to the Clock Tower.) He clutches the gate-piece in his huge hand and leaves, never giving the other gargoyles a chance to talk him out of what even he must realize is a foolhardy quest. Hudson watches him go.

7. Night at the castle. Xanatos and Owen wait in the courtyard for Goliath. Both are now dressed in tuxedos, and Xanatos is wearing a lapel pin that depicts a pyramid with an eye at its apex radiating light. Owen questions whether he should be wearing the emblem of the ILLUMINATI SOCIETY in public. Xanatos says cryptically that it's a necessary risk. [By the way, I have no idea if this is an Illuminati symbol or not. But it seems to fit.] Goliath arrives. Owen offers him a bow-tie. Goliath is not amused. Xanatos gives him Fox's wedding ring to hold. That's what the best man does, you see. Hold the ring, until the couple exchanges vows.
The three enter the Great Hall. Everyone is there. The judge and Stefan have already seen Demona, but Goliath is even more startling thanks to his imposing size. Fox is wearing a white dress, but something non-traditional and sexy. And Demona broods. Goliath approaches her, clutching the gate-piece tightly in his fist. She does not even want to talk to him. She feels she has to attend this farce because Xanatos insisted, and she needs to keep him as an ally. But she cannot fathom why Xanatos wants Goliath here. Goliath attempts to remind her of the last wedding they attended together, but she is not interested in reminiscing.
The wedding ceremony begins, rather informally at first. Keep it very short. (At some point, the Judge should ask Fox's real name. Fox coldly informs him that "Fox" is legally her real name now.) We get to the exchange of rings. Goliath hands Xanatos one for Fox. Demona hands Fox one for Xanatos. Demona looks across at Goliath and seems to break down. Just as the Judge pronounces David and Fox, HUSBAND AND WIFE, Demona runs from the Hall. Goliath pursues. Xanatos & Fox, exchange glances. "Now the fun really begins." They start to follow the gargoyles. Stefan tries to restrain his son: What are you up to now? You'd interrupt your own wedding to engage in Machiavellian scheming? But Xanatos is in a bit of a hurry. He and Fox head out the door pursued by Stefan. The Judge turns to Owen very confused. Owen says something dry and witty. And then both men follow the rest.
Outside, Goliath catches up with Demona before she can glide away. Does she remember their vows? Is there still a chance for them? He shows her his gate-piece. He's always kept it. She gently removes it from his hand and takes out hers. So has she. She puts the interlocking pieces together to form the PHOENIX GATE. And then... she laughs. Goliath is such a fool. He's fallen right into Xanatos and Demona's sentimental trap. Now she has the Gate. And she intends to use it. And just as the Xanatos clan approaches, she speaks the incantation. A huge bird of fire seems to engulf Goliath, Demona, David, Fox and Stefan Xanatos. The fire consumes itself. Owen and the Judge arrive just in time to see the last spark go out. There is no sign of the wedding party. Owen: "It seems the honeymoon has begun earlier than expected."

8. Wyvern, Scotland, on the cliffside near the forest overlooking Castle Wyvern. (This is where Hudson and Goliath froze the morning of the gargoyle massacre of 994 A.D. Only now, it's 975 A.D. -- the night of Prince Malcolm's wedding.) Our five time travelers materialize out of the flaming gate. Stefan asks "Where are we?" David: "The question isn't where... but when?"

ACT TWO
9. Pick up right where we left off. Demona laughs and launches herself off the cliff. Goliath pursues, leaving the humans behind. Xanatos doesn't waste any time. "Follow me!" He runs back into the forest followed by Fox and a very confused Stefan.

10. Air chase. Demona manages to put some distance between herself and Goliath. She chants the incantation and vanishes into the flaming "Gate", leaving Goliath alone.

11. In the forest, Clan Xanatos comes upon TWO HOODED RIDERS who are being attacked by FOUR ARMED BANDITS on horseback. Although he is unarmed, Xanatos never hesitates, wading right in against the bandits. Xanatos, Fox, the larger of the two riders and even Stefan make short work of the bandits. The bandits are forced to flee without their horses, which Xanatos commandeers for his family. The large rider is grateful but suspicious of these strangers in bizarre garb. Then he notices Xanatos' Illuminati pin and warms up fast, briefly drawing back his cloak, to reveal that he wears the same Illuminati emblem. He tells Xanatos that he is the NORMAN AMBASSADOR. He and his "companion" bring "priceless gifts" to Prince Malcolm of Wyvern. Xanatos may wear strange garb, but he's a great fighter (and a fellow Illuminatus). The Ambassador would be honored if Xanatos' would accompany them the last few miles to Castle Wyvern. He also promises that Prince Malcolm will be very grateful for their help as well.

12. Having lost Demona, Goliath soars closer to the castle, debating with himself whether or not he should land there. Then he spots Demona again from a distance. He circles to intercept her, but as she lands on a castle battlement, she is greeted by a young Goliath. And the adult Goliath realizes that he wasn't tracking his enemy, but her younger counterpart. He comes in for a landing on one of the high towers of the castle, and surreptitiously watches the young lovers below him. It almost tears his heart out. And then he hears Hudson's voice behind him, demanding to know what he's doing up on the tower when he had been assigned to hold watch on the battlement. Adult Goliath turns to see his MENTOR, (the YOUNGER HUDSON). When Hudson gets a good look at him, he immediately sees that something is wrong. And when Hudson sees young Goliath and young Demona, below on the battlement, he's ready to cry sorcery, and Adult Goliath has to slap a hand over his mouth.

13. At the gates of the castle, Xanatos, Stefan, Fox, the Ambassador and the hooded rider are greeted by young Prince Malcolm and the ARCHMAGE. The rider is revealed to be PRINCESS ELENA of Normandy. (I made this name up, and have no idea if it's accurate to tenth century Normandy.) The Ambassador had hoped that by arriving in secret, he and the Princess would avoid just the kind of trouble that Clan Xanatos saved them from. Malcolm is very grateful. He was to marry Elena tomorrow, but because the princess was attacked, he has decided to move up the wedding to this very night. He tells his SERVANTS to prepare the Great Hall. At the Ambassador's prompting, Elena pulls out her father's wedding gift. It is a priceless golden treasure known as the PHOENIX GATE, which she will officially present to the Prince after the ceremony.

14. Meanwhile, with great difficulty, Goliath is trying to convince Hudson that he is not a sorcerous creature, but a visitor from the future. (He does not choose to reveal how far in the future.) Goliath is a bit flustered himself: he doesn't know how much to reveal, and he has to remind himself not to use anachronistic names like Hudson and Demona. He manages to babble out the fact that sometime in the future, he attended the wedding of an enemy and that he and his... enemies were sent back in time by some kind of sorcery. He is particularly concerned for the younger versions of himself and Demona. He needs his MENTOR's help. (This conversation will explain the older Hudson's ambivalence in Scene 2. He remembered meeting the adult Goliath after the latter had attended the wedding of an enemy.) Hudson isn't sure what to believe, but he looks deeply into adult Goliath's eyes and decides to trust him.

15. The Archmage returns to his laboratory. He is furious. At first we think he's ranting to himself, but then we realize he's talking to his apprentice, who cowers a bit in the shadows. It turns out that the Archmage hired the bandits to steal the Phoenix Gate from the Normans. To Malcolm, it is just a gaudy bauble, but to him it is the second talisman of power that he needs. (He has the Grimorum. Doesn't yet have the Eye of Odin.) With it he can transverse space and time in a thought. He needs his apprentice to steal it from the Princess before the wedding. Hesitantly, the apprentice steps forward out of the shadows. It is the young Demona.

16. Fox and Stefan watch as Xanatos hands the Ambassador a letter, and returns to face his father. He tells him that the letter contains instructions for the Illuminati society and two sealed envelopes. The Society is to wait 1000 years and then deliver the first envelope to a young David Xanatos of Bar Harbor, Maine. The envelope contains a small coin, a minor reward requested of the Prince for saving the Princess. The coin is practically worthless in 975, but by 1975 it will be worth about 20 grand. The second envelope is to be delivered twenty years after the first. It contains a detailed account of how the coin was obtained. That's how Xanatos knew how to set all this up. He had received instructions from himself last week. "So you see, Pop. I am indeed a self-made man." Fox beams with pride. Stefan is quiet for a beat. Then asks: "All right, Mr. Big Shot Time Traveler. You sent yourself your little letter before you answered one important question: How do we get home?"

17. Young Demona sneaks into the Princess' room through a window and grabs the Phoenix Gate, while Elena's back is turned. She leaves by the same window, but she doesn't get very far. Suddenly, her older counterpart appears before her in a fiery flash of Phoenix flame.

ACT THREE
18. Up on the tower, the burst of Phoenix flame attracts the attention of Goliath, Hudson -- and Young Goliath down on the battlement! Adult Goliath knows the flame signals the arrival of his... enemy. But his younger counterpart MUST NOT investigate. Hudson agrees to waylay young Goliath. Adult Goliath takes off in the direction of the fading flame.

19. Meanwhile, the older Demona confronts her younger self. Both hold a complete version of the Phoenix Gate. (Don't you just love time travel stories?) Anyway, the younger Demona is obviously stunned by what she sees. The older one is right to business. She knows for a fact that her arrival is about to attract some unwanted attention. They need to go somewhere private to talk! She invokes the Latin spell and her gate opens into fire that sucks in both Demonas. At the last possible second, Adult Goliath flies into the fiery gate, and all three vanish.

20. Castle Wyvern. The highest tower. 994 A.D. A few nights after the Massacre. The 994 counterpart of Goliath is frozen in stone (in Thinker pose) at night! Small fires still burn. Fragments of other gargoyles litter the ground. On the cut, the Phoenix Gate deposits Young Demona, Adult Demona and Adult Goliath a few yards above the tower. The Demona's drop down gently enough, but Goliath's momentum from scene 19 sends him crashing into the stone floor of the tower. Adult Demona seems ready for this as well. Before Goliath can recover, she slams him across the back with all her might, plus both fists and the anger of 1000 years. He is knocked unconscious.
And then her real work begins. Young Demona is still in a state of semi-shock. Adult Demona wastes no time. Yes, she is her older self returned from the future with a warning. See the destruction. The death. Goliath frozen in stone at night! Humans did this! And you can stop it! You have the Phoenix Gate. All you have to do is think of a place and time. Hold it in your mind, and by speaking the incantation you are there. With its power you can accomplish anything. Do not give it away to the Archmage. Do not share it with... Do not share it! USE IT!! Destroy all the humans! Rule the Gargoyles! Rule the world!! It's all within your grasp!!!
Goliath starts to come to. Young Demona rushes to his side. Adult Demona intercepts her. "Believe me, I know exactly how you feel." But you cannot trust Goliath. He is weak. He cares more about the humans than the gargoyle clan! The greatest favor you can do him would be to put him out of our misery. (And here is where our Demona has made her big mistake. A mistake made despite the power of hindsight. Because Demona never learns. And because at this time, the younger Demona loves Goliath with all her heart.) Adult Demona: "You must know I'm right! Can't you see I am what you will become?!" And young Demona, still largely innocent and good, snaps: "I will never become like you!" Young Demona attacks adult Demona! Fight scene. Frankly, Young Demona wouldn't be a match for adult Demona, except that the latter is a bit reluctant to trash "herself". Still, it's for her own good.
Goliath regains consciousness and joins the battle. The tide turns and Adult Demona is knocked out this time. Goliath takes her version of the Phoenix Gate from her. Young Demona is pretty near shattered by this whole experience! She turns to Goliath, pleadingly. What should she do?
Goliath is reluctant to use Adult Demona's methods. But he also wants to undo some of the damage the Adult Demona did. Young Demona is touching the frozen version of Goliath. Our Goliath approaches her. Tells her not to worry about this. Not to fear it or look for it. It is not the big catastrophes that must concern her. It is the little slights. The little jealousies and angers that prey upon the heart. Fortify yourself with love and trust, and you need not fear this future.
Goliath looks at Adult Demona. He holds up her Gate. He's not sure he knows how to use it. The younger one lifts her version. She knows how. She speaks the words and the three of them disappear in flames.

21. They reappear in flame on the same tower in 975. Xanatos, Fox and Stefan are there. (The highest point on the castle was the logical place to watch for the Phoenix flames.) Goliath would be tempted to leave Xanatos behind if he wasn't afraid of the damage the guy could do to the future. Goliath says good-bye to young Demona. By now, he's figured out how the gate works. Young Demona steps back out of range. With some hesitancy, Goliath speaks the Latin and our five time travelers disappear.
Young Demona is left alone. She still has her version of the Phoenix Gate, which she holds tightly behind her back. The Archmage comes running up the stairs, clutching the Grimorum. He had seen the Phoenix fire and jumps to the conclusion that young Demona let somebody else get away with the Gate. Before she can reveal that she still has her Gate, he punishes her with a bolt of lightning, and threatens to tell the Prince that she stole the Gate. Hudson glides in, landing between Demona and the Archmage. Hudson wonders why the Archmage would expect Demona to have the Prince's wedding present? If Demona did steal it, who would she be stealing it for? The Archmage takes the hint, begrudgingly. But he won't forget this. He heads back downstairs, grumbling: Those strangely dressed strangers have disappeared. The theft of the Gate can be blamed on them. Obviously, Young Demona never reveals that she still has the Gate.
Young Goliath glides in and in a repeat of the first half of scene 5, Demona seems ridiculously happy to see him. Goliath doesn't want to miss Prince Malcolm's Wedding. Demona seems a bit distracted. She looks at Hudson, who says "Go on, then." She and Goliath glide down to one of the upper windows of the Great Hall.

22. Xanatos' Castle in Manhattan, 1995. A repeat of the end of scene 7: Owen and the Judge arrive on the scene just in time to see the last spark go out. There is no sign of the wedding party. Owen: "It seems the honeymoon has begun earlier than expected."
Our five time travelers reappear. Demona is recovering. Goliath may have defeated her, but he failed too. Demona remembers his little speech from when she was young. She never forgot it. And it didn't change anything. "More's the pity," he says. And he glides off with the Gate.
In excellent spirits, Xanatos approaches his father. "Did you have a good time at the wedding?" Xanatos Senior takes a penny from his pocket and flips it to Xanatos Junior. David catches it and asks, what's this? Stefan says, "It's called a penny. It's not worth much now, but in a 1000 years, who knows. It's my wedding present to you. Because it's all you seem to care about." Stefan turns his back on his son, and walks away.

23. Goliath arrives back at the Clock Tower. Elisa and Brooklyn are there, ready to blast him for going to the wedding. But Hudson takes one look at Goliath and stops them. Goliath puts the Phoenix Gate back in its hiding place with the Grimorum and the Eye. When he turns to face us, there's a single tear rolling down his cheek. Push in on him and ripple dissolve...

24. Castle Wyvern, 975 A.D., night. M.O.S., Young Demona separates the two pieces of the Phoenix Gate and hands one to Young Goliath. They embrace, stroking each other's hair. FADE OUT.


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Faieq writes...

When Iago made Othello believe that Goliath was trying to steal Desdemona away from Othello during the Dark Ages, what was Demona's role in all this?

Greg responds...

Minimal.

Response recorded on November 09, 2000

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Demona Taina writes...

Hello, Greg. :)

I just finished reading your "Eye of the Beholder" outline.. and I'm at a loss of words. The least I can say is, well, GREAT JOB. :)

Well, these are rather.. silly Goliath-related questions that I couldn't help but ask. [giggles]

1. Why didn't Goliath wear a costume for Halloween? Was it because of:

A. He's too big to fit in a costume.
B. He didn't feel like wearing one.

2. If the above is B, then why didn't he wear a costume? He would've looked so incredibly handsome dressed as something that was just so HIM! Maybe as Conan.. or Hercules.. or something big and strong!

Or, hey, what if he dressed as the Beast from Beauty and the Beast? [in a fit of hysterical giggles] That would've been cute.. ;)

Thank you for your time.. :)

Greg responds...

1. Honestly, I think he thought it was gilding the lily. He was just glad to be able to move around in the open. He wasn't "IN" to dressing up for Halloween.

2. Just not his style, I think.

I think we got close enough to B&tB without putting a fur head on him.

Response recorded on November 09, 2000

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Chapter XX: "Eye of the Beholder"

Written by Steve Perry. Story Edited by Michael Reaves.

It's really just a coincidence that we watched this so close to Halloween (11-2-00). I wasn't trying for that. This was just the next episode in the sequence. Still, when I mentioned before we started that this was the Halloween episode of Gargoyles, the kids got very excited. Erin pointed at the framed cell we have in our bedroom which depicts Goliath and La Belle Elisa dancing. She remembered that it came from the episode we were about to watch. Benny then commented that Elisa and Goliath are going to get married. Erin, who has a clearer memory of the last time we completed the 66 episode sequence corrected him. But I said something cryptic, like you never know. Erin said I needed to make more episodes so that we could find out. From her mouth to God's ears.

In general, the kids were very verbal during this episode, or at least Erin was. Benny started out verbal, but fell asleep with his mom rubbing his tummy somewhere during Act One.

In the opener, a classic scene I think, when he first saw Xanatos and Fox together he said: "That was you, Erin. I was him." in reference to the Fox and Xanatos costumes they wore to the Gathering 2000's masquerade.

Erin really bought into the tension of the episode. And it is very tense. Some terrific pacing to this. She remembered this one with much greater clarity than most. "Uh oh. That's not just any necklace." Etc. Personally, I just love Xanatos' pragmatic proposal. The truth is X should have already known that he was truly in love with Fox. I've just done some research into sentencing while working on and reworking my Gargoyle timeline. Fox & Wolf each received a 16 month sentence for briefly holding that model hostage in "Thrill of the Hunt". They had the opportunity to be parolled after eight months. They were rejected. Instead of waiting a mere eight more months for them to be released free and clear, an impatient Xanatos sets up the events in "Leader of the Pack". Is that a man in love or what? Nevertheless, we get his whole "We're genetically compatible and have the same goals" speech. She asks about love, and he feels himself largely incapable of the emotion. He thinks he's too amoral for that. "I think we love each other as much as two people like us can." (Or something like that. I'm approximating all these quotations.) It's fun.

Then comes the sequence in Mr. Jaffe's store. Erin is still very tense: "Uh oh, that's Fox. She's wearing the necklace." and "She wants to stop it [the necklace] with one arm. But she doesn't want to with the other." Here, Erin's hit right on Fox's internal conflict. Part of her is fighting the Eye, but part of her wants to surrender to its power. When X first confronts her in her bedroom, and when the Werefox emerges and attacks, it doesn't shred him. It throws him down on the bed. There's some powerful primal energy swirling 'round that room. Lucky thing Owen is there, or I'm not sure Xanatos escapes with his dignity intact.

Xanatos takes note and activates Plan A, which will be followed by B and C. And a makeshift D. It becomes almost a parody of all his contingencies and "Xanatos Tags" from previous episodes. For once, he's out of control. And he can't bear to admit it. He pretends (even to himself) that he just needs to recover the valuable Eye of Odin, when what he obviously really wants is to save Fox. "...I'd never have just given it away. Ah, well, spilled milk." (I always thought that was a great and yet feeble cover for his real feelings.)

Speaking of the Eye, how many knew back when it was intro'd in "The Edge" that it would be so important? As I think I've mentioned, the Eye was actually the creation of Disney Interactive which was working on a GARGOYLES VIDEO GAME at the time. They told us about the Eye, and I loved the idea and decided to incorporate it into the show. Unfortunately, we didn't use their design, which had this great crow/raven theme to it, appropriate to Odin. Instead, our design always looked vaguely Egyptian to me. I can't remember, but I think that maybe they're design wasn't ready when we needed to complete our model for "The Edge". Or it might have been poor communication. The Eye was designed at Walt Disney Animation - Japan. At any rate, we knew from the gamer folk that the Eye had metamorphic powers. But I wanted to be more specific. Yes, it would grant power, but it had to grant power that suited the legend of Odin's Eye. The Eye traditionally provided Mimir with the gift of sight. That easily translated to "insight" for me. Which is a kind of power in its own right. The Eye in the Gargoyles Universe would externalize and amplify a major trait of the wearer. And, yes, even then I had plans to eventually intro Odin himself and have him stick the thing back in his empty socket.

I think that shot from inside the elevator shaft when Fox smashes her way in is very cool.

Owen with an Elvis tribute: "Fox has left the building."

CONTINUITY
--The Eye of Odin, of course.

--Mr. Jaffe's poor grocery store.

--X's commando squad (including Bruno) is at the ready, yet still unprepared for the Werefox's fury.

--Since "The Mirror", Goliath is more open about his growing feelings for Elisa. She again defuses things by turning his concerns for her into a more objective statement about friendship.

--Goliath is back in the library. This time studying Werewolves. The information won't be useful, but isn't that just like him?

--Elisa immediately jumping to the conclusion that the were-thing is another of Xanatos' mutated victims like her brother.

HALLOWEEN - The trio are very excited to be able to stroll into the open. "No one'll know who we are." Better yet, "No one will know WHAT we are." The taste of conformity they got in "The Mirror" has opened a window on their need to be a part of something larger than the clan.

Another cool visual: Fox and Goliath circling each other, with Fox on all fours.

I love when Goliath tries to reason with Fox. "If Xanatos is your enemy, then believe me, WE are your friends." How little he knows. The Werefox immediately attacks him. Still conflicted. Throughout the story, Fox fights, but the Eye reasserts.

Time for Plan C. But Owen has noticed the flaw in Xanatos' usually stellar power of contingency. X claims that all he cares about is the Eye. But he's only setting things up so that the gargs will get the eye. Subconsciously, all he wants is Fox. But we have Goliath arrive and interrupt just at that moment so that neither X or the audience has time to focus on the contradicition.

X breaks down. Appeals to Goliath. He's out of control. Up to a point. ("Old habits die hard -- he still has the forsight to plant a bug on Goliath ala "Awakening, Part Three".

Gotta love Goliath's line: "Not a good night for you." It's great as a writer when you can legitimately turn the tables and give Goliath a Xanatos line.

HALLOWEEN 2
Broadway REALLY wanted to dress up as a Detective. So he's got a new trenchcoat and hat. Brooklyn, ever the swashbuckler, is a pirate. And Lex... hmm... what should we make Lex. We settled on a pilot, in keeping with his helicopter prowess, I guess. But it was never too clear what Lex would or should be, and I can't help thinking that Lex had trouble deciding on a costume too.

Of course, Goliath doesn't wear a costume.

Vinnie has a line here. Though officially, it's not Vinnie's first appearance, this one line of Jeff Bennett spoken dialogue "A costume over a costume." is the obvious inspiration for all that followed with the Vinster.

And I love Keith as that witch saying "That is a great, great costume." What a great, great line reading.

BEAUTY & THE BEAST. Finally, we get to hit the nail on the head. A moment so romantic (in a very romantic episode) that even the characters take note. Elisa lets her self go for a moment. Goliath just is. The kids are happy for them.

But "Things are not always as they seem". Goliath breaks the moment by attacking a guy in a werewolf costume.

Note: That Goliath now refers to Manhattan as "My castle, my city." A year earlier (more or less) he was calling it Xanatos' city. I love the notion that Goliath sees hope in Xanatos LOVING someone. And of course, he's right. Xanatos' love for Fox (and later Alex) will result in Goliath getting the castle back. Not war, but love.

Brooklyn and Lex finally get to eat pretzyls. Remember that in Awakening, Broadway ate them all. Meanwhile Broadway eat's a hot dog and BELCHES MIGHTILY. This was really more about all of us indulging ourselves in low humor. We put the burp into the script. Bill Fagerbakke burped loudly. But our sound effects guy Paca Thomas, put in the burp to end all burps.

CONTINUITY AGAIN
--Lex gets very intense (briefly) and wants to go after FOX. He still hates anything or anyone connected to his Pack experience.

--The return of Brendan & Margot.

Gotta love Elisa's costume. Holster for a garter belt. Very sexy. Solved our nudity problem with Fox too. I'm amazed we got away with that.

In a larger sense, I'm amazed we got away with the entire episode. I was very nervous that the notion of X and Fox getting engaged would be rejected. But the BIG BOSSES didn't focus on the fact that the engagement might lead to marriage. And fortunately, they weren't paying attention when that engagement led to marriage, pregnancy and a kid. I don't think they would have allowed it.

I could have done without Broadway eating his hat.

Fox's internal conflict is visualized when she sees Elisa as herself and attacks to silence that human voice inside her once and for all.

When, in slow motion, Goliath intercepts Fox and saves Elisa (who's usually fairly self-sufficient) it may be the purest moment of Hero saving damsel we have in the series. The dress helps of course.

A little HIGHLANDER inspiration here with Fox and the exploding sign.

I love that Owen's right there with the helicopter.

X is still trying to interpret things to suit his old (and dated) world view. He thinks Goliath is trading the Eye for Fox, which of course he wasn't. Goliath doesn't think that way.

"Now you know my weakness."
"Only you would consider love a weakness."
"You've never looked more heroic."
"A momentary lapse, I assure you."

All great lines.

Let's go home.

And Owen, who signed on BECAUSE Fox and Xanatos were so interesting to the Puck, SMILES.

And now a word about the episode from Erin Sydney Weisman (she typed this herself):

I am most interested in this episode. And the episode I watched was a spooky episode. And I liked the episode, because it was a very enchanting episode.


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LSZ writes...

Who is Goliath's favourite author?

Greg responds...

Don't know. He has high-brow tastes though. And yet, Mark Twain comes to mind. But mostly, I don't think Goliath is the kind of guy who ranks his favorites.

I'm not either really.

Response recorded on November 02, 2000

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Sapphire writes...

What are Goliath's 5 favorite book titles?

Greg responds...

Don't know off the top of my head. Though GREAT EXPECTATIONS immediately comes to mind. Maybe we'll make a contest out of that when this monster is done.

Response recorded on November 01, 2000

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VF writes...

I really admire the patience and dedication of longtime fans and admirers (including yourself) of "Gargoyles." I only discovered the show for myself (with the help of my two young daughters) a bit more than a year ago, and I KEEP hoping that "some day" will come already and new episodes can be made.

Folks can say what they want about Toon Disney, but that's how my daughters found it and shared it with me, so the channel is at least providing the opportunity for a few new viewers to discover the show.

It's clear from watching the series, and then finding this Web site and learning more about the behind-the-scenes processes involved in its making, that there were a lot of thoughtful, creative, talented people behind it. Your ideas about characterization and story continuity have prompted me to post some thoughts and an inquiry here. (It's at the heart of one of the main reasons why I really lament that there aren't any more episodes being made ... yet.)

From a writing point of view, I think "Hunter's Moon, Part III" -- which I realize was a season finale -- would have served as a much better "final" finale for your involvement than "The Journey," which just left everything dangling for me like an unfinished book. Maybe I should say "like an unfinished chapter" because I don't want the book to end. At least in "Hunter's Moon," it ended with a bit of a payoff: an open declaration of mutual love between two main characters ("You know how I feel about you, right?" "How we both feel, yes." and even a kiss). It helped bring together a few loose strands that had been threading from almost the very beginning of the series without completely shutting it off from future development (far from it, actually).

In "The Journey," there is an aborted, sort-of date with very little discussion between Goliath and Elisa about what is really happening between the two of them or that very significant exchange between them from the previous episode. Also, from the information shared in this site, it seems you knew this was your farewell episode in many respects. So I would be interested to learn what you intended to have at work between Goliath and Elisa in this episode because I'm not sure that I "got it" all. I think an argument could be made that the episode, coming immediately in sequence after "Hunter's Moon," implies that a relationship between the two is A-OK with them without any internal conflicts.

Did you really want to make things seem less defined between them and let some time pass before they actually had The Talk about their relationship, specifically to help sustain fans' interest at a time when you may not have known what the future held for the series and their story?

Sorry to ramble on, but I don't want to appear as though I'm sorry you stayed on for one episode too many (again, far from it!) I'd like to learn your thoughts about the episode from a story/character development perspective.

Thank you.

Greg responds...

Well. I was trying to play fair, I think. I was leaving, but the series had 12 more episodes that I was at least supposed to advise on. Most of my positive (try this) advice was ignored, though some of my negative (hey, don't do that) advice was taken. I wanted to give ME some closure, but I wasn't trying to give the series closure.

Specifically, what I was saying was that the journey would continue. That the adventure would continue. That even Japan had gargoyles, and Vinnie (or Greg Weisman) would never be totally out of the picture. That no matter what hassles Goliath and Elisa had ahead of them, that they would still have each other as companions on the journey forward.

This was not to imply that Elisa was all copecetic about loving the gargoyle. But that she knew that she did. That she would never abandon him. And vice versa.

Does that help?

Feel free to ask more specific questions, if I haven't covered it for you.

And by the way, cuts or no cuts, "Deadly Force" or no "Deadly Force", I'm still glad that Toon Disney's airing the show.

Response recorded on November 01, 2000

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Aris Katsaris writes...

Greg, where the adoption is concerned, no, you had never used the word "convenient". In response to a question uou did refer to it as more "conventional" than magical or scientific alteration.

Hmm, so far you have avoided answering to my questions about the species or the gender of the kid... Let's see if you'll answer one about age... Do you see the kid being adopted while still an infant, or when at an older age (able to talk for example)? There are obvious story possibilities in both...

Greg responds...

Have I ever definitively confirmed adoption at all?

If so quote me and reask the question.

Response recorded on October 26, 2000

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Vilija writes...

Hi again!
Did you develop Goliath's character with a contrast in mind? or did it happen over time throughout the show...He'll be sitting there in one episode, reading, or thinking to himself, and in another episode we see this crazy temper. (For example-maniacal laughter in "Macbeth," and threatening to kill people in "Hunter's Moon."
I guess these circumstances would get me pretty angry as well. What do you have to say?

Greg responds...

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. We developed him to be a complex character. Capable of sensitivity, intelligence and -- when pushed -- great rage. Is that what you mean?

Response recorded on October 20, 2000

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Maria writes...

Another silly Question from Silly Maria: ^_^
Why is 'adopting' for Goliath and Elisa more convenient?
I obviously have a very different thinking pattern. I guess I feel that if someone really loved someone else they would be willing to make some sort of change. So that's why I find it hard to believe that Elisa or Goliath can't make a magical change or something. In my mind, just because you change your form doesn't necessarily mean you are changing who you are. It can change a PART of who you are, but it doesn't change everything about you. You are who you are inside. And that includes your SOUL. Your soul is who you are. That's why we are able to differentiate between right and wrong because GOD gave us that gift. We just abuse it sometimes or ignore it, because we are down here on earth to learn. And from circumstance and learning different behaviors, we sometimes become what we were not in the beginning.
So, why would it be so inconvienient? (Bad spelling. . . :P) I mean, I am probably WAY off base. But that's just the way I feel . . . if that's all right.

I guess the problem for us Goliath and Elisa fans is we REALLY want Goliath and Elisa to have a child. Yet, contradictorally, we understand that ethnically, it would be impossible. And yet we hope for a miracle. I guess in my frame of mind, seeing them raise a family of their own would be like some kind of resolution. Strange, isn't it?
Anyway, enough of my rediculous ramblings. I probably don't make any sense - though I try to. It's just hard sometimes to put my thoughts into words. And they don't always come out the way I want them too. So for that I apologize. A hard life has let my communication skills go to par. ^_^!
Well, if that wasn't too - ridiculous - I'll take off now. TTFn. Ta Ta For Now!! :)

Greg responds...

There's nothing wrong with the way you feel.

But it's not the way I feel. I am a secular, at times Pagan, Jew. And yet, I would not convert to another religion for anyone. Not for "love", certainly. If my "love" couldn't accept me for who I am, why would I want her? Most of my life, I dated non-Jews. It's theoretically possible that I might have married one. But I still would not have converted. As it turned out, I did marry a Jew who "practices" the religion more than I do. I haven't gotten "more Jewish" because of her. I've fundamentally stayed the same. And yet, being Jewish is part of who I am. Part of what made me who I am. Same with being short. Same with being nocturnal. Same with being a guy. A heterosexual. A storyteller. I can't change any of these things (or a bunch of other things) without fundamentally changing my identity. Who I am. Who I want to be. I'm not talking about changing breakfast cereals. I'm talking about fundamental factors to my identity in THIS LIFE. Maybe I was someone entirely different in another life, and maybe my "SOUL" is an unchanging light that shines through the prism of each new life. But the prism matters to me. And I think it matters to Goliath and Elisa too. And by the way, I don't see why ADOPTION is any less legitimate a way to share their love with a child than spitting a kid from one's combined loins.

But did I use the word "convenient"? If I did, what was the context? Because the decision was not based on convenience.

Response recorded on October 19, 2000

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Emmlei writes...

original post and reply:Emmlei writes...
ok, i vaguely recall a while back a few questions as to Elisa and Goliath basically raising a child together. a bunch of questions tended to whether it was biological, and if it came about through magic or science. just to get this off my mind, what about adoption?

Greg responds...

What about it?

repost: would adoption be more likely than having a biological child (even if it's through magic or science)?

Greg responds...

It's certainly more conventional.

Response recorded on September 30, 2000

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Emmlei writes...

ok, i vaguely recall a while back a few questions as to Elisa and Goliath basically raising a child together. a bunch of questions tended to whether it was biological, and if it came about through magic or science. just to get this off my mind, what about adoption?

Greg responds...

What about it?

Response recorded on September 26, 2000

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Gengar! writes...

what happened to Goliath's mother

Greg responds...

Which one?

Response recorded on September 25, 2000

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Gengar! writes...

How old is goliath

Greg responds...

We just posted those ages. Check the archives.

Response recorded on September 25, 2000

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Gengar! writes...

What was goliath like as a baby

Greg responds...

Purple.

Response recorded on September 25, 2000

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White writes...

I was always curious to know if you had created Goliath's biological parents. And if so, what would they be like ( Biologicaly and phsycologicaly )
An other thing I was curious with is, Goliath recongnized Angela as his bioligical daughter, could he have recongnized his parents as well ? ( Although I do not think he would have considered them more importent than his other rockery parents )

Thanx in advance ;)

Greg responds...

I'm not that interested in Goliath's bio-parents specifically. And frankly, I only think Goliath "recognized" Angela because Elisa called it to his attention. (Then he started to dwell.)

Response recorded on September 25, 2000

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Vashkoda writes...

1) Has Demona already used all the spells available in the pages she tore from the Grimorum?

2) Did Elisa or the others do anything special with that page from the Grimorum with the spell that enchanted Goliath? If Goliath must obey anyone who holds it, couldn't someone say, "I negate the last command", and have Goliath fall right back under its spell? Even if that isn't the case, I would think that the possibility was enough that they would take certain precautions with it. Just wondering.

Greg responds...

1. All but one.

2. They burned it.

Response recorded on September 21, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

In Puck's "Future Tense" illusion, was he attempting to use guilt as a weapon against Goliath to break him down, as well as shock and grief? Brooklyn and Lexington both berated Goliath severely for "running away" and leaving the clan and Manhattan defenceless against Xanatos, making it clear that in their eyes, it was all his fault that the city was in the condition that it was. Lexington also implied (at least, how I saw it) that Goliath's "abandoning" the clan was a reason for his turning evil. So, was Puck attempting to fill Goliath with guilt to weaken him all the more?

Greg responds...

Yep.

Response recorded on September 21, 2000

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Maria Destine writes...

I probably did mis-quote you. Oh well.
Anyways I was wondering if Goliath would ever get to know his grandchildren? Wouldn't he still be alive long enough to spend some time with them? And how well off would the clan be by the time he died? You had mentioned that maybe not everything would be exactly perfect by then concerning gargoyle/human relations. So, just how would situations have been?

Greg responds...

I'm not going to answer that now.

Response recorded on September 16, 2000

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Knight-errant writes...

Goliath had his name in 994? No way. 1)Are you sure? Of course, you're sure. I can't believe no one noticed. 2)Who was story editing? Give them a stern talking to.

Greg responds...

1. No one noticed in 994? I think you're wrong about that. The Captain has a whole big speech about his name in the dining hall.

2. Michael Reaves, but I don't see what you think he did wrong. Cuz I don't see a problem.

Response recorded on September 16, 2000

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Melissa writes...

Hey Greg,
This question might sound confusing but I'll try my best to make it comprehensible.
I don't expect you to remember, but you responded to a question (by Charles) on July 30 about Elisa and Goliath's double date. The question was mainly about Elisa's response how Goliath had chosen to take Delilah. You responded by saying "Elisa was pressuring him. She had to live with the consequences of her choice."
So my question is: I always was under the impression that E & G mutally decided to go on this double date. But by the way you responded, it sounded more like Goliath wanted to date Elisa but she rejected the offer. Was this the case? Am I totally off? If you had any input on this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Greg responds...

The notion of "dating" doesn't really come naturally to Goliath.

As I've said before, after years of pussy-footing around, we'd have finally made E&G have an actual DISCUSSION about the status of their relationship. Goliath would "allow" Elisa to drive the conversation, but they would BOTH come to the inevitable conclusion that any relationship between them would be impossible. (Of course, they were kidding themselves.)

Elisa would then attempt to proactively prove that they were moving on to a more common sense approach to romance by having both of them date within their species. She would accept a Halloween invitation to go out with either Morgan or Jason. (To this day, I still haven't decided which.) She would pressure Goliath to take Delilah. Delilah is eager, and for obvious reasons, physically attractive to Goliath. But I'd say Goliath was reluctant for equally obvious reasons, but he agreed to appease Elisa. Then we have this whole action story going on, of course too, which I won't get into here.

But anyway, the result is that they both realize that they are meant for each other. They have to apologize to Morgan/Jason & Delilah, with mixed results. And they then have to figure out just what their relationship, now that they know it's inescapable, is going to be.

How's that?

Response recorded on September 09, 2000

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Maria writes...

You had mentioned that gargoyles don't generally kiss. They use a caress which in some ways for them mimics the kiss. But, considering the fact that Elisa surprised him by kissing him, what would be his reaction later? Would he ask questions about it and she would explain that she kissed him because she loved him? And, would he become curious enough to try kissing her? Would he enjoy it?
I can almost envision a silly face showing that he liked it, kind of like in the scene in Tarzan where Jane kisses an unsuspecting Tarzan. But then, that might not even happen. But it might be cute and inoccent if it did.
Anyway, thanks before hand for replying, and my apologies for some of my earlier more stupid posts. Just curious about that stuff mostly, I guess.

Greg responds...

By the time Elisa kissed him, Goliath had witnessed plenty of kisses. He knows what it means. And after trying it, I'd guess he liked it. If the right person kisses him. Which she did.

Response recorded on August 23, 2000

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shaun writes...

Is there somethimg between Goliath and Elisa,does the rest of the clan know about it?

Greg responds...

Yes.

Yes.

Response recorded on August 23, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

I recently watched my tape of "Upgrade", and that prompted a fresh question on my part. In this episode, Goliath finally fills the SIC position, left vacant ever since Demona parted ways from the clan in "Awakening". What interested me was that Goliath took so long to finally think about appointing a second-in-command. "Upgrade" is 25 episodes after "Awakening Part Five", and in terms of the series' internal chronology, probably over a year later, but only now does Goliath finally get around to start looking for somebody to fill the second-in-command slot, after Hudson tells him that he needs a designated successor in case some enemy of the clan does kill or permanently incapacitate him.

So why did Goliath take so long to start looking for a new SIC? Was it anything to do with the fact that Demona had been the last one?

Greg responds...

Not really. Mostly, I don't think that anyone was qualified at first. Brooklyn emerged as a leader. He didn't start out as one.

I think Goliath was de facto counting on Hudson to be his second.

Response recorded on August 23, 2000

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Demona Taina writes...

It's me again! RUN! [laughs]

I was looking through the archives and I noticed the "Hudson put a spell on Hudson" typo. [snickers] You even quoted it! Should I be honored? [laughs] Well, what can I say? [laughs] I edited the post so many times I mixed up the sentence so badly that I ended up with two Hudsons. :P

[laughs some more, then clears throat] Okay, I've been wondering this for a very long time now. In the episode "Eye of the Storm," Goliath puts on the Eye of Odin because he had no choice. If he wouldn't give the eye to Odin, then he could just forget about Elisa. If he handed it over, then Odin would be powerful enough to "destroy" them.

Back to the main question. When Goliath ripped the eye from his neck, he immediately passed out. Yes, he could stand for a few seconds, but then he lost his balance and.. THUD! I thought it was pretty cool, because I had never seen Goliath actually PASS OUT. Sure, he's been knocked out, put to sleep, but never actually lost consciousness without a physical blow or drugs.

So here are my questions. :)
1. How long was Goliath passed out when he took out the eye?

2. How did Angela and Elisa carry Goliath back to the cave?

3. How tall was Goliath when he had the eye on? Under more normal circumstances, he'd be seven feet tall. Nearly as tall as my house. [giggles] But with the eye, the little kid's head barely reached his knees!

4a. What are the names of the two humans? Erm, people. [laughs] I think it's Eric and Gunther.. but I'm not sure.

4b. I know that the father mentioned his second name, but I didn't quite catch it. In fact, I didn't even understand it. :P What's his second name?

5. Silly question, but I'm a big fan of Goliath and I can't resist. [snickers] Why did Goliath rub his head when he regained consciousness?

6. Why did he look for the eye on his chest after he woke up? Didn't he remember that he ripped it off?

7. Erm.. [can't think of anything else] How are you today? :p

Let me say that this is one of my favorite episodes. A pity the USA Network cut out the scene of Goliath hugging Elisa with his wings.. [grumbles] I don't even know what he said to her in English. [grumbles] And it was such a romantic scene..

[scrolls up] Ooh. Long post. :P So, that would be all I guess. [chuckles] Thank you for your time. :)

Greg responds...

1. Not too long.

2. With difficulty. And Odin may have helped for all I know.

3. Very Tall.

4a. Yeah.

4b. Sturlusson -- but I may have mispelled it. I don't have my references here at home.

5. It was sore.

6. He was looking to see if it left a mark.

7. Tired, but fine.

Response recorded on August 22, 2000

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TK writes...

Hello Greg,
ok firsts thank you for answering my questions

and now to the questions

Goliath always tries to tell Elisa how he feels ,right. She always puts her hand on his mouth,to stop him.

Why does she not want to hear it?
and
Why doesn't he just tell her anyway and push her hand aside?
Is it out of respect?

Thanks a ton! Greg!

Greg responds...

1. She generally knows what he's going to say, and she's not ready to deal with that.

2. Yes, respect. And some fear of rejection.

Response recorded on August 22, 2000

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Sixshot writes...

Hello mr Weisman!

During season 1 and 2, we see Goliath getting denied of revenge by Hakon and the Captain, he don't get to throw Xanatos off the Eyrie building, he was stopped trying to rip Dracon's head, the Weird Sisters stop him from wasting Demona, he didn't directly killed the Archmage (twice), he could not finish off Jon Canmore...so will Goliath ever kill someone (at least someone alive)? Anansi really don't count.

Greg responds...

I hope not -- but you never know.

Response recorded on August 22, 2000

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S writes...

Whoops, heh heh, I'd like to make a correction on question #3 in my Physical Attraction post. What I meant to say was: How could Goliath not see Elisa was physically attractive before "The Mirror?"

Greg responds...

I got that.

Response recorded on August 19, 2000

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S writes...

Hello again, Mr. Weisman. Thank you for answering my "Educating Goliath" questions and not pulling a "Weis-guy" answer on me. Gorebash should rename the Smart-ass Responses to "Weis-guy Responses." I'm saying this in good humor, by the way. Anyways...
PHYSICAL ATTRACTION QUESTIONS:
1.You said: "Absolutely. It's all mixed in there. Protect & Serve, right? There's a chicken and the egg element to what brought the Gargoyles (and Goliath specifically) together with Detective Maza. Kindred Spirits. Physical attraction." There's more, but I'll stop there.
My question is: Who 'exactly' does the "Physical attraction" part refer to? Just Goliath to Elisa and/or vice versa? Which brings me to my next question...
2.How come Elisa shows no evidence of physical attraction to Goliath? I mean, you've heard Goliath being referred to as handsome and everything and he has a nice body(for a cartoon character anyway), but how can Elisa not see that he is 'obviously' attractive? Which, yet again, brings me to another question...
3.How could Goliath not see that Elisa was physically attractive? It doesn't make any sense. Look at Demona, she basically looks humanish. I don't see how it could be that hard for Goliath not to see Elisa as beautiful if he sees Demona that way. He could basically think of her as a gargoyle without the gargoylian features(wings, tail, etc.).
Well, that's about all, and thanks.

Greg responds...

1. It depends "WHEN" you are talking about, but the answer is probably both.

2. You're not paying attention if you think that Elisa showed no evidence.

3. Ah, but that's VERY different, particularly, I think, with guys. If you're socialized to find certain physical traits to be beautiful, including wings and tails, than to see someone without those things, might not light your fire, until you look closer.

Response recorded on August 19, 2000

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Axem Gold writes...

I have Brooklyn questions.

1) Were there going to be conflicts between Goliath and Brooklyn (Second In Command).

2) Before he goes on his timedancing adventure will Brooklyn try a few more times to woo Angela.

3) Will Goliath consider turning over leadership of the clan to Brooklyn?

4) Will Katana join Brooklyn willingly or be dragged into the travel?

Greg responds...

1. Occasionally. Nothing major.

2. No.

3. Eventually.

4. Willingly sorta.

Response recorded on August 19, 2000

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Nyrtleka writes...

My Q's about how you mentioned an attempt at a relationship between Delilah and Goliath.

This seems a little bit strange to me. I mean, you've mentioned over and over again that gargs mate for life. I can't see a gargoyle, well, "dating" because they are simply making an attempt at a relationship with someone, instead of really loving that person. If Goliath "dated" Delilah, wouldn't this be against the "Gargoyles mate for life" thing? Or is he just making a last, desperate attempt to break away from Elisa?

Thanks!

Greg responds...

He's humoring Elisa. But not happily.

Response recorded on August 18, 2000

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Carlota writes...

After so many years that I have watched Gargoyles, I have to say that this show rules! I remember THE MIRROR episode and the one thing i have always wondered was why couldnt goliath go to puck and ask to be human to be with Elisa? that what has always been on my mind. I know that Puck/Owen was limited to his power, but before that. why did nothing ever came up. why?

Greg responds...

Why would he want to? Being a gargoyle is who he is. You don't change that.

Look, I'm Jewish. Religious in my own way, I don't much care for organized religions including my own. But even if I fell in love with a woman, there's no way I'd convert for her. Then I wouldn't be me.

Response recorded on August 02, 2000

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Angela (repost by Aris) writes...

Hello, Greg! Please let me know if I'm right about this -- I have proof that Goliath still loves Demona ----> 1.) In "Vows", Goliath spent the whole show trying to get Demona to stay good and love him again. Also, The only reason Goliath went to Xanatos' wedding is because Xanatos said that Demona would be there. I mean, Goliath wasn't going to go, but when he heard the name "Demona", he immediately decided to be the best man. 2.) In "The Reckoning," Goliath, at the end, was fighting Thailog because he was trying to hurt Demona. Plus, Goliath warned Demona about the fire 3.) In "Sanctuary", when Thailog was talking about how he planned on double-crossing Demona, Goliath got really mad. Plus, Goliath was jealous when he discovered that Demona had chosen Thailog (for the time being, anyway!!) 4.) In "Outfoxed," Goliath was talking to Halceyon Renard, and Ranard told Goliath how his missed Jeanine (Fox), and Anastasia. Goliath then adds his own and says how he misses his "Angel of the Night."

Please let me know if these are good facts to support my statement -- Goliath still loves/cares for Demona!! Thanks a million, Greg!!

Greg responds...

Sorry, Angela. "Proof" is an awful strong word. What you have doesn't qualify even as logical speculation.

1. "Vows" was Goliath's last ditch attempt to rekindle their love. Emphasis on "last ditch". He already had feelings for Elisa by this time, but it went against his grain to "abandon" his mate. So he made an attempt to reach her -- and that attempt failed. After that he moved on.

2. Goliath and Demona are in one respect like divorced parents. They both care for Angela. And Demona proved that in "The Reckoning". So yes, for Angela's sake, for the sake of their past feelings together, for the hope that someday, somehow she will reform, for a lot of complicated reasons, Goliath does not want Demona to die. But that does NOT mean he's still in love with her. He's not. And by the way, you're really stretching things here anyway. Goliath has -- indeptendent of Demona -- ample reason to fight Thailog in that situation, not the least being Thailog had just kidnapped him and his clan and had attempted to murder Angela.

3. Any decent person would be mad to hear about Thailog's plan. And jealous? Maybe a touch of residual jealousy was part of the equation. But mostly, he was just appalled. Maybe a bit grossed out even. He does think of Thailog as his son, after all.

4. He does miss THAT Demona. The one he remembers from the past. That's not the same as wanting the one he has to deal with now.

Still, if it makes you happy to ignore all this and pretend that Demona & Goliath belong together, who am I to stand in your way?

Just don't get your hopes up.

Response recorded on August 01, 2000

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Angela (repost by Aris) writes...

Hello, Greg! In "City of Stone: Part 4" MacBeth was going to throw Demona over the bridge in Xanatos' castle in the selarium, but Goliath talked MacBeth out of it. By doing this, Goliath saved both Demona and MacBeth's lives. Now, Goliath could have gotten rid of 2 of his biggest enemies, but he convinced MacBeth that "Death is never the answer, life is." This is proof that Goliath still has feelings for Demona. He could have easily let MacBeth kill her if he didn't love her, but he still does. SO......my question to you is -- this is proof that Goliath still loves, or at least still has feelings for Demona, I am correct?? Please let me know, Greg. I really appreciate it!! :)

Greg responds...

I hate to encourage you. Because frankly Goliath would have said the same thing to Macbeth if Mac had been threatening to kill Xanatos or Tony Dracon or anybody. (By the way, Macbeth wasn't threatening to throw Demona off the bridge. He was threatening to impale her on a jagged piece of metal debris that had fallen from one of the upper floors.)

On the other hand, I never denied that Goliath still has strong feelings for and about Demona. When they finally capture her in "The Reckoning" he won't consider killing her. But what I do deny, is the notion that he still loves her romantically. That ended decisively with "Vows". But theirs is a complex relationship. And feelings don't go away, don't vanish. They simply alter with time and experience.

Response recorded on August 01, 2000

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TK writes...

Hello Again,
First thanks for answerings all of our questions and now the question.

This one just bugs me some so here

Why is Goliath so surprised when Elisa Kisses him/ I mean look at the freeze-frames Gorebash has he looks so suprised or even...well, Idon't know (comments?)

I mean doesn't he want her to kiss him ? or rather doesn't he want to kiss her?

Just thought i would ask
thanks A bunch

Greg responds...

1. He's just caught off guard. Pleased, but, yes, surprised. It's not in character for her. And he didn't yet know what she had just said to Jason.

Response recorded on July 30, 2000

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fufu writes...

how old is goliath

Greg responds...

He was biologically 29ish in 1996.

Response recorded on July 30, 2000

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Garg Chick writes...

Hey Greg ^_^

I'm a huge E&G fan (Elisa and Goliath, but I'm sure you know that o.O) and I was wondering, in absolutely any way, would Goliath and Elisa EVER have kids? *waits for beating* >;)

Greg responds...

Admit it, for a huge E&G fan, you couldn't be bothered to check either the E or G archive and get your answer immediately. Instead you post a question here and wait over a month for a response that I've already posted MANY times before. Right?

Anyway, "kids" plural?

Response recorded on July 30, 2000

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Charles writes...

okay, I have alot of time on my hands and I was just reading the old archives. You said you orignally planned to have goliath go on a double date with elisa with delilah as his date. This seems really weird to me, and I think maybe even it woudl be majorly disconcerting and perverse almost for elisa that goliath would go out with delilah. I guess this is just my knee jerk reaction, but would you explain some of your thoughts on the reactions and thoughts of goliath and elisa on his choice of a date?

Greg responds...

Who else could he choose? Elisa was pressuring him. She had to live with the consequences of her choice. That doesn't mean it isn't weird. But hell, that's half the fun. And it was Halloween.

Response recorded on July 30, 2000

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Faieq Ali writes...

1) In the Gargoyle universe, do soulmates exist?
2) If so, who is Goliath's soulmate, Elisa or Demona? What Goliath and Elisa have is honest, but difficult, whereas Goliath and Demona had a good relationship while it lasted, and if Demona had not betrayed the clan they would have still been together until one or the other perished. Their relationship was more easier, but it was naive and dishonest. So which is better?

Greg responds...

1. What do you think?
2. What do you think?

Response recorded on July 30, 2000

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Faieq Ali writes...

I asked this before but seems to have gotten lost, so I decided to repost it:
1) What would the relationship between Iago and Demona have been like in the Dark Ages? After all Demona was the Archmages' apprentice, but Iago was allied with him, so would he look down on her? In HIGH NOON, he calls her 'sister', but thats because he doesn't know that it is her fault he is dead and that she is now an enemy of Goliath.
Also would he hate her, in Dark Ages, because she was in love with Goliath and was friends with Desdemona and Othello?
2) Did Goliath etc, learn of Demona's apprenticeship with The Archmage?
3) If the answer to (2) is yes, then how would Goliath react?

Greg responds...

1. Edgy.
2. No.
3. N.A.

Response recorded on July 30, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

I thought that I'd ask you a question about Goliath's decision in "Awakening Part One" to just take Hudson with him instead of the entire clan when he went to pursue the Vikings. What is your stance on his motivation? Many fans of the series have different opinions on it. Some, such as myself, see it as simple "sound strategy" - that, as Goliath had said, it would be dangerous leaving the castle unguarded by any gargoyles while he was out driving the Vikings away from the castle. Others saw it as arrogance and overconfidence, citing his attitude that he could scare the Vikings away without any help. I thought that I'd ask you what your personal take is on this.

Greg responds...

1. I think it was fairly sound strategy on the assumption that you don't have traitors in your midst. As demonstrated in Awakening Part Two, it doesn't take a hell of a lot of gargoyles to route those Vikings. And Goliath's plan wasn't to route them but to scare them off. He and Hudson were probably enough. Not that there wasn't a risk involved, but I hardly would call it arrogance.

Obviously it was the wrong choice, but only because the duo who suggested the "scare" tactic were in fact planning to betray the castle.

Response recorded on July 29, 2000

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Amethyst Delena writes...

Did you come up with, draw and design...etc. Golith?

Greg responds...

No. I can't draw at all, which Aimee and Jody's sketchbooks can now attest to.

Greg Guler did the orignal design for Goliath. This was adjusted by Mr. Takeuchi of Walt Disney Television Animation Japan. Frank Paur also had input into the final model. (I had input too, I guess, but not with a pencil, just a memo.)

Response recorded on July 26, 2000

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brent writes...

if demona was evil and is evil than during the 900s in A.D. why did goliath love Demona if she was evil

Greg responds...

You're question assumes facts not in evidence.

Response recorded on July 26, 2000

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Tk writes...

Does Elisa feel uncomfortable when Thailog is around?
Does Goliath feel uncomfortable when Thailog is around when Elisa is around?
EX: In " Double Jeopardy" When Thailog was talking about/to Elisa.
Thanks THats all For Now
Thank YOU

Greg responds...

1. Well, she doesn't feel cudly.
2. He's a villain who could put her at risk. What do you think?

Response recorded on July 26, 2000

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Todd Jensen (repost by Aris) writes...

In your opinion, has Goliath ever told anybody about his "Future Tense" nightmare (beyond the very brief account that he gave to Elisa and Angela at the end of the episode), or is it just his and Puck's little secret, at the time of "The Journey"?

Greg responds...

I think he kept most of the details to himself.

Response recorded on July 26, 2000

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Chapter XVIII: "The Mirror"

Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
Writer: Lydia C. Marano

Arguably the best single episode of the series. The animation is fluid, dynamic and very strong. The writing is sharp, even quite funny over and over. And yet, dramatically the story is still potent. It really advances the Goliath & Elisa romance arc. Changes Demona permanently. And introduces Puck -- and by extension, the entire third race: The Children of Oberon. All in a mere 22 minutes.

It's also very gratifying for me. A bit of a vindication. As you may have seen from the memos I wrote to Brynne & Lydia, there was some considerable resistance to the notion that none of the characters would notice their own personal change from one species to another. Most of my collaborators thought the idea was way too complicated to pull off. I argued that it might seem complex, but in fact it would play cleaner on screen -- and funnier and more directly to theme. In my mind, another title for this episode could have been -- had we already not been using it for our Werefox episode -- "Eye of the Beholder", because all the transformed characters really noticed was when someone else was "OTHER". Being a monster or being "normal" was based on their point of view, not any objective look in the mirror. [As it is, the title is the kind I like. Simple, objective and yet metaphoric. At one point, it was titled: "Mirror, Mirror". But we simplified it even more.]

But anyway, when the human Brooklyn, Lex and Broadway are confronted by "Gargoyles", the scene is an intentional mirror of the scene from AWAKENING, PART ONE where Brooklyn says, "If they think we're beasts and monsters..." Again, this is playing with the idea of "beasts and monsters" being merely in the eye of the beholder. The species have reversed, but the situation is exactly the same simply because the Trio remain in the minority. I suppose that's one thing that X-Men's mutants have in common with the Gargs. Both are a metaphor for being part of a minority. Feared almost automatically.

On the other hand, when Elisa is transformed, she believes that Goliath & Co. have been transformed into something like her. I think her immediate reaction is very telling about how she ALREADY felt about Goliath at that point. She's thrilled. She throws her arms about him. Now they're the same species. There's no impediment to their love. What's interesting is that if you stopped and asked Elisa under normal circumstances whether she would wish for Goliath to be transformed into a human, the answer would most certainly be "No." She knows that being a Gargoyle is fundamental to who he is. You can't change that without changing him -- and yet in that instant, in that unguarded moment, her desire to be with him overwhelms that rational knowledge. She's just happy.

At the museum, Elisa looks at herself in the mirror. She then moves, but the reflection holds. That was the idea of one of our board artists. A little clue that the mirror is magic. (It's not an animation error.)

Family Reactions #1

During that museum chase, my wife wanted to know why no alarms were going off. I figure Demona or the thieves just shut them off.

Erin didn't realize that that was Elisa dressed as a security guard at first. We were trying to withhold that information for a bit.

"Titania's Mirror", "The Children of Oberon", "Oberon sent me." We were laying groundwork to expand the entire series' base. But I don't know if back then I knew that much about what if anything I had planned specifically for Titania & Oberon.

Anymore than I knew then what I'd do with the "Dracula's Daughter" reference. But we try not to waste anything.

Coming up with that "Children of Oberon" name was a struggle. And so many people have asked me since whether or not Oberon is literally everyone's father, I almost regret landing on that choice. Our thought process is largely present in the episode when Goliath et al, go through various noms: Fair Folk, Dark Elves, Changelings, Shape-Shifters. Of course, at the time we were misusing the term Changeling. I think that was Odo's influence frankly, but I should have known better. I suggested "The Oberati". But the Reaves didn't care for that. I think they thought it sounded too much like an Italian sports car.

I do love the moment when Brooklyn cites Shakespeare's play as a sort of reference work on the Children. I hope we sent a few people to the library with that line. Did we?

I also love Hudson's line in response to Elisa's question: Are they real?

Hudson: "As real as I am, if the stories be true." It's full of delicious dramatic irony. If you can suspend belief on a bunch of gargoyles, then this shouldn't be a problem for you. I love things that work on multiple levels.

I also love Hudson's "Be careful what you wish for" line.

We were trying to show a bit here how Demona had managed to operate in the modern world up to this point. One of the thieves has clearly worked for Demona before without ever having laid eyes on her. Of course, showing Demona's M.O. here, was like giving it a swan song. Because after this episode, though she clearly doesn't realize it yet, her life is going to get MUCH easier. Being a human during the day is a great boon to all her scheming. I'm very curious about everyone's reaction to that? Shock? Amusement? I also tried to work very hard so that in that last two minutes of epilogue, everyone would get that she only was human during the day. I was very afraid that the audience would think she was permanently transformed into a human. Was anyone confused? Or was anyone surprised that Puck's revenge/gift STUCK? We wouldn't really explore the change until HIGH NOON. Had you forgotten about it by then?

Family Reactions #2
As Demona's casting the spell that will summon Puck. (Which I always thought was very cool, with the feather and all.)
Benny: "That's a magic mirror. Is Demona going in there?"
Erin: "Puck's gonna come out."

As I've mentioned before, during the writing of this story we figured out that Owen was Puck. So to play fair we dropped a hint here. Demona (who knows) says to Puck: "You serve the human. You can serve me." Puck changes the subject, replying "Humans [note the plural] have a sense of humor, you have none." This was done intentionally to distract the audience away from the hint we had just dropped. But obviously, in hindsight, it's a clear reference to Owen serving Xanatos. Anyone get it right off the bat? Anyone even take note of the line the first time? Originally, the line read, "You serve him, now you can serve me." With the "him" referring to Xanatos. But our S&P executive was afraid the "him" could be taken to mean Satan. I know that seems silly now. But keep in mind, we were very paranoid back then about the show being attacked for promoting devil worship. So we made the change.

Sensitive Broadway: "Maybe even love." It's a nice moment. Wistful.

Puck reminds Demona that the mirror isn't "Aladdin's lamp". At the time, the Aladdin series was still in production at Disney. So that's a bit of an in-joke.

And how about that: Demona is still carrying a torch for Goliath. On some level, she wants him more than almost anything. Yet she continually allows her hatred to get in the way. And the irony is, that at this point, pre-Vows it isn't yet too late for them. But her actions further serve to cement the Goliath/Elisa relationship. More now than ever before.

Puck/Brent Spiner is just fantastic. I love that "charming personality" line. And "You don't know what you're asking, believe me." And "I'll do EXACTLY as you asked." And "My mistake." And "A very long nap." He's just so rich.

Plus the boarding and animation on Puck is just great. As is the sound work that accompanies him zipping around.

I always wanted Puck to be the one character who could break the fourth wall and talk directly to the audience. Every time he appeared, we'd put a line or two in the script that was addressed to the audience. And every time, Frank or Dennis Woodyard would cut it out of the board. They didn't like breaking the fourth wall. (A lot of guys don't. I tried to do that with Max on Max Steel, but Richard Raynis and Jeff Kline wouldn't allow that either.) Oh, well....

Puck also establishes that Oberon's Children generally use rhyming spells instead of Latin or Hebrew or whatever. (Thus making life slightly -- but ONLY slightly -- easier on me and the writers.) But Puck isn't too formal: "Human's love a battle hearty, so does Puck, come on, let's Party!" Fun. (And I like Brooklyn's line, "Party's over." too.)

Family Reactions #3
When Elisa's transformed into a gargoyle.

Erin: "She looks cute." [I very much agree. Though I always wonder where her red jacket goes.]

Ben then asked why she was transformed.

Beth explained that Demona didn't want Elisa to be human anymore.

Erin then corrects my wife and explains that Puck is tricking Demona.

KIDS GET IT! Adults need to pay closer attention!

Goliath suddenly has lust in his heart:
G: "I never realized when you were human just how beautiful you were."
E (with a smile): "You mean you thought I was ugly?"
G: "Uh... careful! Updraft!!"
Man, that guy is smooth.

Anyway, that's one of my all-time favorite exchanges. I think it reveals so much. Somewhere underneath, Goliath has been attracted to who Elisa IS deep-down -- at least since AWAKENING, PART THREE. But he never thought of her as a potential love interest. He wasn't brought up liberally enough to think that way. After all, she has no wings, no tail. And those human shaped feet!

But suddenly, she's revealed as a FEMALE. Now, even when she goes back to being human, his perspective is permanently altered. Hers, however, is not. She's already consciously had those thoughts. Consciously rejected them. So at the end of the episode, he wants to discuss these (for him) new feelings -- but she does not. And the sun helps shut him up.
G: "That's not what I meant."
E: "But that's the way it is."
Another of my all-time favorite exchanges. (I'm really partial to things involving the G/E relationship. I know, I know, I'm a romantic sap.]

I also like the ongoing confusion. Elisa: "Everyone in Manhattan has been turned into... HUMANS!" Goliath: "No, no, no, no, no." And when the Gargoyles are changed into humans, Brooklyn is so sure that they've always been humans, it's funny. Like that moment in CITY OF STONE, when he's convinced that the "statue of Elisa" is a bad likeness of her: "They got the nose wrong."

FYI, there was an honest attempt, within the logical parameters of what our gargs looked like, to make their human versions resemble the actors who played them. Thus Goliath has darker skin than the others, because Keith David is African-American. (Though otherwise Goliath really looks like Conan to me.) The bald Lex has brown hair and the bald Broadway has blond like Thom Adcox and Bill Fagerbakke respectively. Brooklyn resembles Jeff Bennett but with Brooklyn's white hair instead of Jeff's blond. And Hudson looks like Ed Asner with a beard. More or less. Thom Adcox is the one who most looked like the human version of his character.

Cool little touches:

Demona nudges an unconscious Puck with her tail.

She continues to call Hudson, "Old Soldier". Her tenth century "name" for him.

Her line about the "gift of being a gargoyle". I love that superior attitude.

Lexington's "Fun, but weird" line.

Hudson wrapping the sheet over the mirror.

Elisa and Demona have a brief "cat-fight" as Gargoyles. Not quite as diverting as the one they'll have as humans in High Noon. But it was nice to put them on equal physical footing for a change. Let them have it out.

Demona mentions that Puck isn't too tired to make himself "invisible to the crowd". This was us trying to plug a hole in our story. We felt it would undercut the mob's reactions to our newly human heroes if they had the same reaction to seeing Puck. And yet Puck clearly looks more human than Gargoyle. More "other". So we slid that line in to avoid the whole problem.

FAMILY REACTION #4

Beth laughed at Hudson's very Scots reading of "No doubt about it." Which is pronounced more like: "No doot aboot it."

More sappy stuff (which I love):

Goliath's line: "I'll always be there to catch you."

Elisa completely forgetting her fear of flying in order to save the MAN she loves.

That brief moment when both Elisa and Goliath are humans at the same time.

Hudson's wistful line about seeing the sun, just once.

Although it had little to do with the metaphor, we couldn't really resist the notion of showing Bronx transformed into a dog. We picked the biggest dog we could think of, a Wolfhound type, though a bulldog might have been more reminiscent.

In the script, Demona smashes the mirror upon seeing her human reflection in the glass. But somehow the scene never got animated. So we added the sound of the mirror being smashed to the exterior shot at the end. This was important in order to give the story full closure. The initial point of the episode was to prevent Demona from getting Titania's Mirror. Structurally, therefore, I couldn't allow her to keep it.

But no fear, later we introduced Oberon's Mirror (clearly part of a matching set) in THE GATHERING, PART ONE.

I wonder what all those Manhattanites thought when suddenly they realized they were all barefoot.


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Another "Mirror" Memo...

Though I think it's one of our most rewarding episodes, it was a tough one to make come together. So after I received the first draft script on "The Mirror", I sent a second memo to Brynne. Here it is, UNEDITED:

WEISMAN 11-13-94

Notes on "The Mirror" Script...

O.k. The problems here seems to be mostly my fault. I haven't been able to make clear to you guys how I want our characters to react when they've been changed. It's been clear in my head. And for me the logic flows backwards from a scene I want to see where an average-human-pedestrian-who-has-been-turned-into-a-gargoyle sees one of our transformed-into-human-heroes and screams: "Look at that monster!! It's like some kind of horrible... HUMAN!!" The key is that the bystander actually uses the word "HUMAN", and that he says it with the same kind of fear and revulsion that we would normally hear (in a more typical episode) being used for the word "GARGOYLE".

In order to get both the revulsion into the word "Human" and a strongly negative reaction to our heroes' new human appearance, the bystander needs to believe that being a gargoyle is the way it's supposed to be. Therefore when the bystander's appearance was changed his mind-set must have been changed as well.

Working backwards from that goal, how would our main characters react to being changed?

THEIR MINDSET WOULD CHANGE SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH THEIR APPEARANCE:
Elisa is the first to be transformed. Thus, ELISA'S REACTION to being changed into A GARGOYLE is the surprising statement:

"Goliath, You've been changed into a gargoyle!"

Reasoning: Goliath &co. were always "the other" to Elisa. But when she was transformed, her mindset changed with her appearance. So she now believes that being a gargoyle is normal. Since, Goliath &co. now look "normal" to her, she figures that they must have been magically changed from being "the other" into being "normal"--i.e. they have been transformed into gargoyles.

[I realize this seems byzantine, but ultimately it'll be the most straightforward reaction on screen, short of having everyone entirely self-aware from the moment they change, (which just isn't as much fun to me). See how it plays out in beat #11. (Also #9, 13, 14 and 21.) If you're still not clear, please don't hesitate to call me.]

TENSION
Despite absurdist moments in this story, we must keep the tension and suspense running high, throughout.
--Don't reveal Elisa's presence at the museum until last possible second. Same with Goliath.
--Don't let Gargoyle's lose track of their objective for more than a line of dialogue here or there.
--Don't let the battle meander from place to place. Keep battle and chase scenes focused and specific.

WHAT THEY'VE BEEN WISHING FOR:
DEMONA'S WISHES
1. Get rid of humans, particularly Elisa.
2. Get rid of Goliath and Co.
3. Stop turning to stone during the day.

GOLIATH & ELISA'S WISH - To be together. (Elisa is slightly more self-aware than Goliath, but neither should specifically wish in dialogue to become the race of the other. It's too on the head.)

TRIO'S WISH - To assimilate.

CLARITY IN SCRIPT
O.K. TO USE: ELISA/GARGOYLE
HUMAN/"GARGOYLES"
GOLIATH/HUMAN
HUDSON/HUMAN
BROOKLYN/HUMAN
BROADWAY/HUMAN
LEXINGTON/HUMAN
OUR HEROES

DON'T USE: HUMAN/GARGOYLES
GARGOYLES/HUMANS
TRIO/HUMANS
Even for me, these were too confusing.

In group scenes, LIST ALL CHARACTERS IF NECESSARY.

BEAT SHEET
ACT ONE
1. Museum.
--Establish two security guards - but don't reveal that one of them is Elisa (or that Goliath is there).
--Demona breaks in and takes out the first guard.
--Second guard turns out to be Elisa, ready and waiting w/Goliath.
--Establish how much Demona hates humans in general, and Elisa specifically.
--Demona never gets as far as laser-grid around mirror.

2. Chase.
--Demona Escapes.
--And while Goliath and Elisa are chasing her...
Maybe inter-cut w/...

3. Museum.
--Thieves get past laser-grid to steal mirror.

4. Ext. Demona's house.
--The two thieves deliver mirror.

5. Int. Demona's house.
--Demona summons Puck.

6. Clock tower.
--Elisa arrives. They were duped. Mirror was stolen.
--Elisa's: So how bad is this? What can D do with that mirror?
--No one knows for sure, but it leads to the discussion of Oberon's Children.
--Refer here to Midsummer Night's Dream.
--Scotsmen called them "Fair Folk".
--Vikings called them "Dark Elves".
--Shape-shifters.
--Trio: Imagine what it would be like to shape-change. Fit in anywhere.
--Hint subtly at Elisa and Goliath's desires.

7. Demona's house.
--Make sure we know Puck's name here.
--Our Demona and Puck wish scene.
--Puck uses a rhyming spell.
--Puck's arms are pinned by chains, so magic energy comes out of his eyes.

8. Clock Tower.
--Elisa: All we can do is wait til Demona makes her move.
--Elisa transforms into a gargoyle.

ACT TWO
9. Clock Tower.
--Everyone including Bronx is pretty stunned by Elisa's change.
--She seems happy though.
-- Elisa: "This is wonderful. Goliath, you've been transformed into a gargoyle!"
--Goliath: "What?!"

10. Demona's House.
--Puck tells her the deed is done.
--Demona wants to escalate. Every human in Manhattan.
--Puck again stresses difficulty of "big wishes".
--Demona yanks chain: "Answer truthfully. Can it be done?"
--Puck: Yes, but not from here.

11. Clock Tower.
--Bronx sniffs at Elisa.
--Goliath: "We've always been gargoyles. You're the one who's been changed."
--Elisa: "I've always been a gargoyle. I think I'd know it if I wasn't."
--Goliath: "How did we first meet?"
--Elisa: "I fell off a skyscraper; you glided down and caught me."
--Goliath: "If you always had wings, why would you need me to catch you."
--Elisa: "I can't glide with these."
--Goliath: "Yes, you can."
--AND OFF THEY GO.
--Hudson and Trio stare at each other for a beat and then follow.
--Bronx is left behind.

12. WORLD TRADE CENTER
--Puck and Demona materialize w/mirror.
--P: This is gonna take a while.
--He begins visually gathering magical energy. Just a little at first.

13. Flight over the city.
--Goliath NEVER LETS GO OF HER HAND, even after it's clear that she's gliding under her own "power", because she's afraid. She doesn't want to lose that contact.
--Goliath can't help staring at her: "I never realized when you were human just how beautiful you are."
--Elisa: "You mean you used to think I was ugly?"
--He doesn't have a good answer to this.
--Fortunately for him, she segues to: "This is so confusing. Have I always been able to glide like this?"
--[She's still hasn't quite grasped the situation.]
--Goliath: "No. No. Try to understand. You've been changed into a gargoyle. Follow me, I'll show you."
--They glides in low over the streets. Elisa sees the humans and freaks!! (Her freaking needs to be ambiguous. Goliath thinks she understands now. She doesn't really.)
--Goliath: "Maybe we should land somewhere and talk."

14. Rooftop.
--Goliath, Elisa, Hudson and Trio come in for a landing.
--(Establish clothes line. Someone has left their laundry, including bedsheets, to dry in the warm night air.)
--Elisa: "Did you see? Everyone in Manhattan's been turned into a HUMAN?!!!"
--G: "...no, no, no..."
--HUDSON: "LOOK!"
--He points at light show that seems to be gathering around one of the towers of the WTC.

15. World Trade Center.
--BIG LIGHT SHOW as Puck glows with magical energy.
--P: "This is really going to wear me out."
--D: "Quit complaining and do it already."
--Puck casts rhyming spell.
--Magical energy shoots from entire body to hit mirror.
--Spell reflects off mirror and hits giant hyperbolic sattelite dish. --Sattelite dish fires magic off across the whole city.
--Puck collapses.

16. Rooftop.
--Goliath & Co. have seen light show from WTC, (but not result).
--Goliath &Co. leave Elisa on the roof and head toward WTC.
--Elisa's not happy about it, but they don't give her a choice.
--And she's still phobic about flying alone, so she can't follow.

17. WTC
--Now that the light show has subsided, Demona wants to see her "empty city", but Puck is out of it.
--Goliath and co. attack. She's forced to flee with Puck, but without mirror.
--(Somewhere in here, Demona has to mention Puck's name.)
--To save herself, she tosses it. Hudson saves it.
--Goliath and Trio pursue Demona.

18. Downtown streets/subway/ whatever
--Even though she's being chased and is hampered by the unconscious Puck, Demona still comes in for a landing to see the results of her wish.
--She's furious as she sees the human/"gargoyles" going about their business.
--Use this chase (and this scene) to reveal the extent and absurdity of the change that hasn't really changed anything but the appearance of the people. Take us down into the subway, maybe.
--Demona ultimately uses the situation to get lost in a crowd.
--For the pursuers, Goliath and trio, it's like finding a needle in a haystack.
--Throughout scene, Trio may get wistful and a little distracted about being able to fit in.
--There are female "Gargoyles" walking by, catching trio's eyes.
--They have to remind themselves that this is wrong. And they're not entirely convinced that it is.
--But other "gargoyles" still shy away from trio because of how they are dressed. (Or how little they are dressed.)
--At any rate, the trio don't totally lose track of their objective: Demona.
--But Demona's gone.
--Goliath: Let's go get Elisa and plan our next move.

19. A deserted alley.
--Demona confronts a very worn-out Puck.
--D: I wanted you to destroy the humans, not give them the gift of being a gargoyle!!
--D: "Change the gargoyles back to humans."
--Puck: "O.K., o.k., give me a chance to catch my breath."
--He leans to look at his reflection in the side-view mirror of a car.
--The image in the mirror wavers.

20. Rooftop.
--Goliath, Hudson, Trio and Elisa confer.
--They have the mirror.
--That was definitely one of Oberon's Children with Demona.
--Demona called him Puck.
--Elisa: In Shakespeare, Puck was a harmless trickster.
--Goliath: What's happened below isn't harmless. Come, we must continue to search for Demona and Puck.
--Elisa: "I'll never get the hang of leaping off rooftops."
--Goliath: "I will always be there to catch you."
--She hesitates. He takes off to set an example.
--A bolt of Magic shoots out of the mirror catching Goliath, Hudson and the trio.
--Goliath changes to human and falls.

ACT THREE
21. Rooftop.
--Elisa dives and catches Goliath. Overcoming her fear without thinking about it.
--Meanwhile, Hudson grabs a sheet off the clothesline and covers the mirror: "Don't want anything else jumping out at us from this thing!"
--Goliath doesn't understand why he fell.
--Suddenly he stares at her: "Elisa...You've changed back to normal!!"
--E: No. I haven't changed. You have. You're a human. You fell because, you don't have wings.
--Brooklyn: "We've always been humans."
--Hudson: "And we've never needed wings to glide before."
--Lex (the engineer of the group): "Wait a minute, we must have used wings. How else could we do it?"
--Goliath, sinking in: "Elisa's right. We're supposed to be gargoyles. And we're not. Everyone else should be human. But thanks to Demona and Puck, they're not."

22. Alley & Street.
--Puck is very weary.
--Demona asks if it's done.
--Puck says yes.
--Demona and Puck cautiously exit alley.
--Obviously, all the humans are still "Gargoyles".
--Demona turns on Puck. I told you to turn the gargoyles to humans.
--Puck: "Oh, you meant these gargoyles! I thought you meant Goliath and the gang. My mistake. Sorry."
--Demona: "You turned Goliath into a human?!!"
--She's ready to murdilate Puck. She pulls the chain tighter, crushing him.
--Puck: "Hey, hey, hey, You're missing the big picture, here. This is your big chance to get rid of Goliath. Now, while he's weak as any human."
--She stops, smiles.
--Dissolve.

23. Rockefeller Center. Some time later.
--Bronx runs into shot. [He has not been transformed yet.]
--A human/ "gargoyle" pedestrian bends over to pet the nice doggie and then runs away screaming when he sees the doggie's masters.
--Our "human" heroes now fully clothed (and looking cool) walk with determination right up to the center of Rockefeller Center. Hudson still has the mirror, covered in the bed sheet.
--(Elisa is not in sight.)
--Everywhere, pedestrian/"gargoyles" run screaming: "Ahhh, humans!! Run!!" "Oh, they're so ugly." "Keep away, you...you monster human, you."
--Hudson to Goliath: Are you sure this is a good idea?
--G: Demona must have done all this for a purpose. What else could it be except to leave us vulnerable to her attack. So we'll let her come to us, but we'll pick the place of battle. Here on the ground and in the open where her wings won't help her much.
--They take their stand. Not all the pedestrians have run. Some stop and stare, but they all keep their distance from these human monsters.
--Goliath instructs Hudson to unwrap the mirror.
--The instant he does, Puck and Demona fly out of it.
--BATTLE ROYALE (Needs real choreography.)
--Demona's armed with her plasma rifle.
--Gargoyle's are armed with medieval weapons.
--Battle is largely land bound.
--Puck's having a good time and helps Demona.
--His stunts can be darkly funny, i.e. they can be absurd, as long as they increase the danger to our heroes.
--Puck turns Bronx into a Russian Wolf-hound, just for fun.
--Some brave bystanders see Demona being attacked by all these monsters and run in to help.
--Trio are forced to battle them.
--These human/ "gargoyles" don't know their own strength, so fighting them isn't easy.
--Obviously at some crucial moment, Elisa (their secret weapon) flies in and takes on D.
--Demona should not instantly recognize Elisa.
--But when Demona does, she goes nuts. Elisa's presence (both the fact that she is alive and a gargoyle) is a double-edged sword. The best (psychological) weapon the good guys have, it throws Demona into a rage, which makes her doubly dangerous, but careless.
--Goliath and Elisa stand together to defeat D.
--Trio take on and scare off the "gargoyle" good samaritans.
--With Bronx's help, Hudson bags Puck with metal-mesh trashcan.

24. WTC
--Goliath promises to free Puck if he changes things back to normal.
--Puck complies. He'll start with the biggest job -- getting all the humans back to normal. (Fortunately, changing something back to its normal state is easier for him than the reverse.)
--Using rhyming spell, mirror and sattelite dish, Puck lets the magic fly.
--Elisa is human again.
--Puck needs a moment to recover.
--Elisa and Goliath have a brief moment.
--Elisa (self-depricating): "Well, I guess I'm back to my old ugly human self."
--G: "Never, to these eyes. But I'm curious. Am I handsome to you like this?"
--E: "You've always been handsome to me."
--PUCK: "Allright, enough of the mushy stuff!"
--He zaps Goliath, Hud, Bronx and Trio back into Gargoyles. (Note: he doesn't need the mirror, since they're all standing right in front of him.)
--Goliath frees Puck.
--Puck takes off with Demona through Mirror, taking mirror with.

25. Demona's house.
--Puck's grateful for a good time, enjoyed by all.
--He'll grant Demona her original wish: She won't turn to stone during the day.
--She's suspicious, for obvious reasons.
--He must SPELL OUT that she will still be her normal GARGOYLE self at night. But during the day, she won't have to sleep as stone.
--One last little rhyme spell.
--And he disappears through mirror.

26. Clock Tower.
--Final scene with Bronx, Hud, Trio, Goliath and Elisa. (This was really nice, as written.)

27. Demona's House.
--The sun is rising.
--We can only see Demona in sillouette.
--Until she turns to look at herself in the mirror.
--Which she smashes.

PAGE NOTES
(The script I received had some odd page numbering. The title page was numbered as page one, some pages were skipped and had no numbers, and the last page was numbered 33. So I just renumbered it from the first page of script on through the last [39]. The following notes therefore refer to my numbers. Call me if you have any questions.)

P.2
If Demona never gets the opportunity to destroy or turn off the laser-grid around the mirror, than we can leave it for the thieves to deal with and ditch all this dialogue and action revolving around alarms. Demona's meant to be a diversion.

Please don't refer to the Security Guard as Sarge or Old Soldier. I know it's just character stuff, but we don't have the space to give it context. It winds up confusing us as to who the guard really is.

Remember: Male gargoyle eyes glow white. Only female gargoyle eyes glow red.

Throughout script we use both "rooklings" and "hatchlings". I prefer "hatchlings". That way audience members who have missed the one or two references to the rookery, will still understand.

P.5
Goliath's getting wounded is problematic. We don't deal with it in the story. It's quickly forgotten. We don't want to play fast and loose with something like that.

P.9
Don't forget to give us some description of Puck. (He definitely should have pointed ears, for example. I added pointed ears to the description of the Weird Sisters in their true form.)

P.10
I don't know that we want to refer to all of Oberon's Children as "real mean". Seems blatantly racist.

When Demona summoned Puck earlier, she did it in Latin. So please make sure we name him here in this scene.

P.12
DEMONA
If you cannot rid me of all humans,
then at least rid me of that human --
Elisa Maza!

We need the double entendre of Demona asking Puck to get rid of that
human-Elisa. ("Oh," Puck weasles to himself, "get rid of the human-Elisa. Make her a gargoyle-Elisa instead.")

P.21
Our Gargoyles shouldn't notice that anything has changed among the pedestrians below, until they get close enough to see. (From a practical standpoint, the idea of each person suddenly taking up more room, might be tough to get across in animation.)

Let's show at least one of the Human/"Gargoyles" looking at his or her reflection (in a store window or something) and preening. Totally unaware of the change.

Goliath says, "What sorcery is this?" twice in the episode. Let's skip both. He said this exact line in "Awakening".

P.23
Keep focus and imperative of THIS story. No one has time to stop for hot dogs or to deal with vandals. (So skip both incidents.)

P.25
Puck doesn't have to pretend that he did "exactly" as Demona commanded. He can have more attitude. "Hey, close enough." or "If you're going to split hairs..."

Again, let's not make Hudson an expert on Puck as an individual. We don't need him to identify Puck from tapestries. (And I doubt if his education has progressed to the point where he's read Shakespeare.) Plus, I'm not sure we have to label Puck as the "worst" of Oberon's children, either.

P.34
Gargoyles including Elisa/gargoyle CANNOT hover.

Also don't forget...
--Cast List.
--Latin version of Demona's spell from Grimorum. (It doesn't have to rhyme.)
--Rhyming spell in English for what Puck does to everyone. (Needs to be vague enough so that Demona isn't immediately tipped off.) Doesn't need to be same spell each time.
--Somewhere in here, we need to justify why none of the human/"gargoyle" crowd reacts to Puck. Do they see him as a gargoyle, ala the Weird Sisters? Or is he invisible to them? Or can we get away with them just walking by and ignoring him?
--Make sure final page count will be within our page range (pp. 35-39) after Denise has conformed it.

THANKS. DON'T HESITATE TO CALL WITH ANY QUESTIONS.


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"THE MIRROR" Outline memo...

Next up for my Ramblings is "The Mirror". What follows is the UNEDITED memo I sent to story editor Brynne Chandler Reaves regarding the first draft outline for that episode.

This is one I had very specific ideas on, so I may have been even tougher than usual. Oh, well...

WEISMAN 10-30-94

Notes on "The Mirror" Outline...
Brynne, I hope you consider this flattering: I'm gonna be very tough on you here, because I think you can handle it. It's not just because of this outline, but because in general, I want you to be handing me cleaner, more finished pieces. Although the story is full of great ideas, there are logical and structural problems here that need fixing. As I've discussed, I want to be less "hands-on" so that the schedule keeps flowing and we all stay sane, but that means I need you to catch much more of this sort of thing before I ever see it.

One particular concern of mine (and not so incidentally of Gary Krisel's) is padded first acts, where nothing of substance happens until the cliffhanger. Each story dictates its own structure, so I don't want to make any hard and fast rules, but this is one thing you should be thinking about on every episode you edit or write. We can have a prologue scene or two. But we don't want to turn the whole first act into a prologue to events that only begin seconds before the commercial break.

Scene One is a nice prologue. So is Two, if it's brief. Three, Four and Five are padding. Six is good prologue, but by this time it feels like padding. Seven is problematic from a character/logic standpoint. Finally, we get going at Eight.

And opening acts aside, we need to beware of scenes that serve no function in the structure of the story. A real good character moment is worth a detour on occasion. But our stories have to be coming out of character anyway, so nine times out of ten, the detour shouldn't be necessary.

Ever since "Reawakening" we've tried to make the Gargoyles much more pro-active. But even by first season "survival-mode" standards they seem downright slow to act here. In scene Three, they suspect magical bad news is on the way. In scene Six, they confirm Demona's involvement. Yet in scene Ten, they go to the play in the park like nothing was wrong. Worse, in scene Sixteen, when the humans are transformed, the younger gargoyles actually think that the transformation is part of the play? They're more sophisticated than that. And instead of reacting like it's a problem, they just want "contact with their kind". I wouldn't mind a wistful line that summoned up their feelings about how this reminds them of their old lives when there were many gargoyles and/or that it's nice to be able to walk out in the open without everyone running away screaming, but they have to realize that this transformation is bad news. Then in scene TWENTY-TWO (that's the beginning of ACT THREE and a full fourteen scenes after Goliath battled Demona in the museum) they "are certain now that Demona is behind this". Who did they think was behind it for the last act and a half? This is a good sign that we're either short on structure, heavy on padding or both.

THEME
We must have a clear theme that involves at least one of the "good" gargoyles in every episode. We shouldn't have to dig deep for it. It's what focuses the events that dictate our structure. Today's theme is "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it." It applies to Demona, obviously. But it applies to subconscious desires on the part of Goliath. And wistful, but conscious desires on the part of Elisa. And even (to a small extent) the desire of our young trio to assimilate. Emphasize the theme as much as possible.

GARGOYLES AND MAGIC
Please remember that the gargoyles are largely ignorant of the workings of magic. They have an advantage over humans in that they know magic exists. That's about it. Demona and Macbeth have had centuries to study it. Guys like the Magus and the Archmage dedicated their lives to studying it. Brooklyn, on the other hand, is no expert. I doubt he can even read Latin. And the GRIMORUM is not a textbook that would provide easy answers even if he could read it. It is, in essence, a cookbook. If a recipe is torn out, there's no way to infer very much about it from the remaining pages. Remember, the Magus had the sleep spell he used on the gargoyles, and even with that and all his training, he couldn't wake them up without the specific page that held the counterspell. HOW could Brooklyn find a list (scene 5) that matches Demona's list? WHY would the Grimorum list the items for one specific spell twice? HOW could he know the name (Scene Eight) of the entity being summoned?

Could the Grimorum tell them that Puck's spells must be reversed before dawn? Or how Puck frees himself? Unlikely. (Would Julia Child's cookbook feature recipes by the Frugal Gourmet?) But (if we assume Goliath reads Latin, and could make heads or tails of the Grimorum, without having to sit down and spend an entire week reading the thing cover-to-cover to find a helpful passage in a book which, as you noted, has no index) -- it is possible. We always skate by a few things in every script. But the more we have to skate, the thinner the ice in general. Something that normally would fit neatly beneath our audiences suspension of disbelief, becomes one more contrivance in a story that's got a few too many.

DEMONA'S MOTIVATIONS
First off, she's not looking for an equal partner or ally. She's made that clear enough. That's exactly her problem with Xanatos. He always wants to know what's in it for him. He can't be easily controlled. He's fine if they have a mutual interest (resurrecting Goliath or Coldstone), fine if she can con him into helping her (as she does in "City of Stone"), but the latter isn't easy. Otherwise, they can't work together. They're goals are too diverse.

As for Macbeth, don't even bring him up. This story airs before CITY OF STONE. She hasn't seen Macbeth for decades probably. And it's been centuries since they worked together on anything.

None of this changes the story, but it's important to get her mind-set clear. She isn't summoning Puck as an ally. But as a slave.

And what does she want her slave to do? Basically, this episode is going to underline Demona's truly short-term thinking. She knows she wants humanity eradicated. But not what she'd do if she ever accomplished that goal. She's closed her heart to anything that doesn't serve her immediate short-term plans. (She's really, really screwed up.) At one point, Puck should offer her Goliath. He can make Goliath love her again. But she's so distracted by her hatred for Elisa in particular and humans in general, that she can't keep a positive thought in her head. Her monolithic and myopic fanaticism allow Puck to make a primate out of her, literally and figuratively.

PUCK
First big note from Adrienne and ME: we cannot play this character like he's a demon. His summoning in particular came off as very satanic. Let's try to make it more fanciful and magical. One thing that would help avoid this problem, is to be clear about what Puck is. If we aren't clear, people might think demon or devil. If we are clear, they'll believe us. We've got to establish, not only Puck, but his entire magical race. They are the third sentient group that once populated our planet in addition to humans and gargoyles. We need a name for this race that we can be comfortable with. (We can say at some point that the Scots called them the Fair Folk; the Vikings called them Dark Elves. But neither name is great. There must be something that could work for us. "The Oberati" perhaps, after their king?)

Then we need to set some rules and limits. Particularly given what we know about the Weird Sisters (and about Puck's secret identity). Obviously, not all of these rules need to be spelled out in this script. But let's make sure we know them. Let's begin by saying that the Oberati can all shape-shift. But when they morph into a form, they're stuck with that form's limitations. No magic happening if they pose as human.

In their true forms, they have a lot of magic power, but a rule against the direct use of it in the world of man (witness the Weird Sisters more indirect manipulations). Maybe this is a command from Oberon which they are afraid, but not unable, to break.

An obvious exception to the rule occurs when they are enslaved by someone else who commands them to use their magic. They are off the hook responsibility-wise, so they can go to town. Thus, most cultures have wish-granting legends about Leprechauns or Djinn or whatever.

Conveniently, the Oberati are creatures of pure magical energy. When they cast a spell, the spell doesn't have the limitations imposed on the studied magic of human or gargoyle sorcerers. The subjects of their spells don't have to see and hear them to be affected. It's a more fluid, less structured form of magic. Magic to the Archmage is an art, craft or science to master. Magic to Puck is as natural (or super-natural) as breathing.

But even Puck must have his limits. Even magical energy should be finite. We MUST establish this fact, at least. If Demona asks to get rid of all the humans on the planet, Puck will have to admit that it's too much for him. Would she settle for all the humans on the island?

Did the Gargoyles meet or hear of Puck specifically, back in the tenth century? I doubt it. They lived fairly isolated lives out at Wyvern. And Puck didn't get famous until Shakespeare made him famous quite a few centuries later. Maybe they've heard stories about the Fair Folk, but again, let's resist the temptation to make Goliath or Brooklyn or Hudson experts on the subject. They seem pretty perplexed by the Weird Sisters in "City of Stone". That should define their reaction to Puck, whom they're meeting here prior to that story.

Why does Puck help Goliath turn stuff back to normal at the end? Well, for this episode's purposes, it'll probably work that Goliath holds the chain and issues a command. But Demona held the chain, and Puck always found a way to circumvent her commands. So why doesn't he do the same to Goliath? Two reasons, probably. First, it further annoys Demona, who he's peeved at for enslaving him in the first place. Second, once Puck is free, he can return to his secret identity, where he's been having such a good time. He wants things back to normal himself. Still in future appearances, we need to be sure that Puck doesn't turn into a personification of Deus ex machina.

Use it sparingly, but it's o.k. with me if Puck breaks the third wall and addresses the audience on occasion.

Finally, Puck's name. The Disney execs are of two minds on this. Bruce prefers Goodfellow. His main concern is the constant policing we'd have to do to make sure Puck doesn't ever come out Fuck. Ellen feels that Goodfellow has more association with Satan than Puck does and that Puck is safer on that level. I'm really torn. I tend to agree that Puck is a slightly more recognizable Shakespearean reference than Goodfellow, and thus stonger and safer. I also think the name suits the character. On the other hand, I think Goodfellow is an effectively ironic name for a character who is, for all intents and purposes, a villain. Part of me really wants to use both. Could the spell that enslaves Puck to Demona have something to do with her knowing his true name, Robin Goodfellow? Adrienne, I think, is on the fence with me. But I'm not sure. We should probably discuss this one last time before you go to script.

THE MIRROR
Think of the Wicked Queen's Magic Mirror times ten. It is a window, a doorway, a Peeping Tom.

HUMANS AS "GARGOYLES"
As we discussed, I don't think the humans notice they've been transformed. Some of the ridiculous fun of this episode should be to see them, walking around, going about their normal business, briefcases and subway tokens in hand, with no indication that anything is different. If they looked in a mirror, they'd preen as usual. They wouldn't freak out or recognize the change.

Although they have wings, I don't think it occurs to any of them to start gliding around the city. And if they see (the soon-to-be more self-aware) Elisa flying, it would be shocking: "Look, Mommy, that lady is flying!!" It's not that they'd see her suddenly as a gargoyle. (It'd be like seeing Superman. A normal enough looking person. He just happens to be leaping tall buildings with a single bound, which is, of course, unusual enough.)

When Goliath and clan walk among them as gargoyles, I don't think they see them as unusual. For once, looking like a gargoyle is normal. Like Halloween, in "Eye of the Beholder", it's another rare moment for our guys when they can be out in the open. (This may have been what you had in mind in scene 18. I wasn't clear.)

However, when Goliath and company enter their midst as "Humans", it should scare them. Once again, ugliness is in the eye of the beholder, and the "human" Goliath is still the monster. We should not skip this beat (as you planned to in scene 24). We should play it. It can be bitter, poignant and, yes, funny. (Appealing to Puck's dark sense of humor (and mine too, for that matter).)

ELISA AS A "GARGOYLE"
Like the other transformed humans, Elisa doesn't immediately realize she's been transformed. And looking in the mirror won't clue her in either. (And in any case, Elisa isn't the type to faint dead away.) In fact, she might turn to Goliath and suddenly ask, "Could you remind me why you guys are hiding up here in the clock tower?" Suddenly, they don't look so strange to her. Goliath is going to have to sit her down and talk her through the differences between humans and gargoyles. Her realization should play like a fog lifting.

And we probably should play out Goliath and Elisa both as gargoyles for an act. Maybe he teaches her how to fly. Maybe they're just about to get close enough to do the gargoyle equivalent of an embrace, when he's transformed to human. Get it so that we can all almost taste it. Then yank it away. (I know, I'm a cruel bastard.)

I also want to contrast Goliath's reaction to "gargoyle" Elisa with Elisa's reaction to "human" Goliath. He may say, "Elisa, I never realized how beautiful you are," because he always liked her for her inner beauty but, frankly, never found her physically attractive (no wings, no tail--shudder). And he's always made that mental distinction between the surface and what lies beneath.

Elisa never did. She recognized his inner beauty in episode three or four and ALWAYS thought he was handsome. Even before this episode, I think she's thought about the two of them and come to the inescapable conclusion that romance is impractical. Better keep it platonic. I think he's had those feelings, but has never connected to them mentally. (Look, no matter what the species, or how evolved the individual, he's still a guy. And guys are fundamentally stupid about this stuff.) Until this episode, it never crossed his mind that Elisa could replace Demona in his heart. The fact is she already has. But he never thought about it before now.

OUR GARGOYLES AS "HUMANS"
To be consistent, they shouldn't recognize the change until Elisa points it out to them. Maybe they were about to leap from the clock tower, and Elisa has to stop them and say: "Look, guys, you don't have wings anymore!"

But let's keep in mind that these guys are still heroes. NO WAY are they going to agree to step back because a gargoyle Demona is too tough for them now. Did Elisa ever step back when she was human? For that matter, there have been plenty of humans willing to go toe-to-toe with the gargoyles. Certainly Goliath is as brave as Macbeth or Wolf or Commando #3.

Also, I got confused in scene 29. Goliath has been transformed to human. That means human proportions. Sure, he'd be a big guy, but not as big as he was as a gargoyle. I don't know why armor would fit, say Broadway, and not him.

TONE
In contrast to our typical episodes, I think this one can have a more absurdist tone. Puck should both further the tone with his actions and undercut it with wry asides. Plus there'll be romantic stuff, also undercut, this time by Goliath's reaction to Elisa and the genuine frustration that comes from the situation's mutability.

GOLIATH BLAMES XANATOS...
For everything, it seems. In "Lighthouse" and to a lesser extent in "Leader", we've played the beat of Goliath mistakenly going to the castle to confront Xanatos for something that the latter had nothing to do with. I think by now, Goliath has learned his lesson. Particularly since the going's on here smack much more of Demona or Macbeth than Xanatos.

DEMONA'S HOME BASE
Let's get a clear sense of what this place is like. Particularly, how it is distinct from Macbeth's mansion: we've played his place like Wayne Manor. Dracon has the penthouse at the Park Manor Hotel. And Xanatos has this incredibly cool castle-on-a-skyscraper H.Q. Demona's home needs to be different from all of these and special in its own right. Also give us an at least approximate idea of where this thing is located. Gramercy Park, maybe?

SHAKESPEARE IN THE PARK
This was a great way to ground our Puck in Shakespeare, as opposed to Satan. No doubt about it. And no fault of yours, but I want to save this setting for a story that Michael and I have discussed involving Macbeth and an adaptation of Shakespeare's Macbeth. Plus, in this story, I want to play with Manhattan life going on, business as usual, despite the fact that everyone's been turned into a gargoyle. We can't do that if we limit ourselves to the Park and the closed Museum. I want to get this story out in the open. Have the "gargoyle" humans reacting in panic to the "human" Goliath and clan, the way they'd normally react to them as gargoyles. That's an opportunity we won't get in another story. We must take advantage of it. But having taken the story out of the park, we should work other Midsummer references into the script. Name the mirror after Oberon or Titania, perhaps.

BEAT SHEET
ACT ONE
1. A warm Midsummer's Night. Demona arrives at the museum with grand theft in mind. She's come to steal the Mirror of Oberon (or whatever we ultimately call it) which has just arrived from Ireland (or Italy or wherever). The first museum security guard is no problem. But the second security guard turns out to be Elisa -- undercover, prepared and not without back-up, i.e. Goliath. They suspected that the mirror would be a prize too tempting for Demona to resist. Demona seems particularly furious over Goliath's continued "partnership" with Elisa. SHE HATES HUMANS AND SHE REALLY HATES ELISA!! (Demona knows how Goliath feels about Elisa, even if the big lug hasn't admitted it to himself yet.)

2. Anyway, we get a big action sequence in the museum which leads to a chase outside. Demona gets away from them, but without the mirror. And because our heroes are so thoroughly engaged in these activities...

3. ...They are absent when two high-tech but very human cat burglars show up at the museum, seconds later, to crate up and steal the mirror. (The real security guard is still unconscious and thus unable to do anything about them.)

4. The two thieves arrive at Demona's townhouse (or whatever) with the crated mirror. Otherwise, the scene plays pretty much as you had it with the delivery men.

5. Inside her home, Demona wraps thick iron chains across the glass of the stolen Mirror. She summons Puck. He comes flying out through the glass and thus winds up wrapped in the iron chains. He spends almost the entire episode with the chains pinning his arms across his chest.

6. Back at the clock tower, Goliath and Elisa are feeling like grade-A dorks. Elisa's just back from investigating the museum crime scene. It's now clear that Demona's job was to take out security and, if necessary, act as a diversion for the real thieves. Now the big questions are, what can she do with this mirror and how bad is this going to get? Perhaps this is a place to discuss the Oberati. Hudson tells what little he knows about them.

7. Our Demona and Puck scene. If he ever wants his freedom he must serve her. He tries to discourage her: he'd make a lousy servant. She doesn't buy that. Puck works for "him". He can work for her, etc. (That whole exchange.) O.K., okay, what does she want? Freedom from her one great vulnerability -- turning to stone during the day. What good is that, he wonders. You think you're gonna be able to walk down 5th Avenue in broad daylight? I can if you obliterate all humans, everywhere. What am I, the Genie of the lamp? There are limits, kiddo. C'mon, what do you really want? She pauses, and an image appears in the mirror. It is Goliath (in the clock tower, but we're tight on him, so we aren't tipping the location). Puck: "How quaint, after all these centuries, you're still carrying a torch. Well, if that's what you want, I can make him love you again. Although it will be really hard, because you're not exactly Miss Lovable." And then, in the mirror, Elisa steps into the shot, and puts a hand on Goliath's shoulder. Demona goes ballistic. She knows her heart's true desire. Get rid of the human -- Elisa Maza. Puck: "That I can do." He fires a magical bolt into the mirror at the image of Elisa.

8. Back at the tower, Elisa has a hand on Goliath's shoulder, reassuring him that they'll stop Demona's scheme, whatever it is. Suddenly, she is surrounded by a magical energy that rips her away from Goliath. The gargoyles try to help her, but they can't get close. We should think for a moment that this is the end of Rico... uh, Elisa. And then there is a blinding flash of light that whites out the whole screen. Followed by pitch black darkness. Elisa is still there. We see her silhouette as our eyes adjust and the light returns slowly to normal. She says she's o.k. And then she steps into the light. Transformed into a gargoyle version of herself.

END OF ACT ONE

Now I have to apologize. I know I promised you this for Monday. It's two a.m. Sunday and this is as far as I got. There's a reason (an excuse). Monday is Corporate Seminar. And my last act as an executive (before becoming a full-time producer on Tuesday) is to pitch all our new development to Michael Eisner and Rich Frank. This is a twice yearly event that requires a lot of preparation, and I just ran out of time to get these notes done. Normally, I'd pull an all-nighter, but I need some sleep to face these guys tomorrow.

You gotta admit, that was a pretty good excuse.

So I have to leave this to you. You're mission, if you chose to accept it, (AND YOU REALLY HAVE NO CHOICE IF YOU EVER WANT TO GET TO SCRIPT) is to write up a quick beat outline of acts two and three for me based on the sketchy notes below. It doesn't have to be long. Two to four pages is fine. The amount of detail that I gave you for Act One is all I'm looking for.

Act Two should have Goliath filling Elisa in about the change she's undergone. Maybe take her flying. Maybe this is where we get the line about him never realizing how beautiful she was.

Demona should be temporarily fooled into thinking Elisa's dead, and flushed with success, she asks Puck to rid all of Manhattan of its humans. Bing, bang, boom. Everyone's a gargoyle. People on the subway in from Queens, change into gargoyles as soon as the E-train hits the first Manhattan stop. "Gargoyles" on the way home to Jersey change back to human as they cross the bridge in their cars. NO ONE NOTICES AT ALL.

But Demona doesn't know any of this yet. She wants a tour of what she expects to be an empty city. Puck is secretly eager to see his handiwork, so they step into the mirror, which transports them to the heart of the city. Times Square, maybe? 5th Avenue?

Meanwhile, Hudson, Goliath, Elisa and the trio are all hunting for Demona. They quickly notice the change in the populace. (Maybe the shock of this wide-spread change interrupts what might have been the only chance Elisa and Goliath had for a same-species clinch.) They all know it's bad news, but the trio can't help enjoying the ability to walk among gargoyles again. Even if they are gargoyles in business suits: New Yorkers who still won't give them the time of day. Still, would it be so bad if this didn't get fixed? Yeah. Probably.

When Demona figures out she's been duped, she demands that the gargoyles be changed back to humans. Bing Bang Boom. Goliath, Hudson and the Trio are human. (I'm torn about Bronx. I guess the big dog is o.k. It just seems outside the terms of Demona's request, even by Puck's loose standards.)

Was Goliath flying at the time or is this another interrupted clinch between him and Elisa?

Act Three opens with Elisa saving Goliath from plummeting to his death perhaps. Then she has to make him understand that he has been transformed as well.

We wind up with a very public battle featuring Elisa and our Newly Human heroes against Demona and Puck. It's complicated by the fact that the general populace (who are all now Gargoyles) perceive the human Goliath, Hudson and Trio (and Bronx?) as monsters attacking what to them seems to be a very normal-looking Demona.

Still in the end, good triumphs. Puck makes everything right at Goliath's command, (but let's make it clear that at least in part, he's doing this to spite Demona and/or to suit his own agenda). Elisa is changed to human, before Goliath is changed back, and we have another near-clinch, that Puck interrupts with good-humored spite by changing Goliath back into a gargoyle.

Goliath frees Puck and he vanishes with Demona, rescuing her from Goliath.

Turns out Puck had more fun than he thought he would so he feels like he owes Demona a favor. He'll give her her original wish. No turning to stone during the day. (BUT WE NEED TO MAKE IT PAINFULLY CLEAR THAT SHE WILL STILL BE HER NORMAL GARGOYLE SELF AT NIGHT.) He takes his leave via the mirror.

Cut back to Elisa and Goliath for emotional wrap up. Just before the sunrise which, as usual, separates them.

And back to Demona. Silhouetted against the rising sun. It's up, and she's not stone. Puck kept his word, she can't believe it. Then she sees her human self in the mirror, which she smashes, yelling NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! And fade to black.


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Basillisk writes...

Are Goliath and Coldstone biological brothers or just rookery brothers?

Greg responds...

Rookery brothers.

There are never any biological brothers of the same generation. Cousins, sure. Brothers and sisters, never.

Response recorded on July 11, 2000

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Zuppstein Luvir Manoruvver writes...

Hiyah, I'm Zupp! I love Gargoyles sooooo much, and they simply kick. They're way to good for Toon Disney!

My Q's are on relationships in GARGOYLES:

1) Why did you give Angela to Broadway? I don't wanna like offend you or something, but she'd be so much better as Brooklyn's. They look a heck of a lot better together than Angela and Broadway.

2) In teh avalon episodes, especially when Angela leaves for the first time, she and Gabriel were always together. Gabriel at least acted like he was in love with her. But you said that Gabriel was going with Ophelia. Was there ever anything with Angela and Gabriel?

3. The Goliath/Elisa relationship rocks! I love how you got rid of a gap between 2 species with it. But will they ever have a future together?

Thanx!

Greg responds...

1. I didn't "give" Angela to Broadway. As she herself said, she's not a prize to be won by OR gifted to anyone. As for a direct answer to your question, sorry, but I'm tired of answering this one. If you'd bothered to check the Angela or the Trio archive to this site you would have seen that this question has been asked and answered many times. I don't want to offend YOU, but if you think she'd be better off with Brooklyn, then I think you weren't paying very close attention.

2. Again, no. Check the archives for a more complete answer. But Angela and Gabriel had a much more fraternal relationship. Think of them as fraternal twin siblings. They were very close. But it was brother/sister affection -- never romance.

3. Yes.

(Zupp, I'm sorry if this response seems harsh. But I've got a ton of questions to go through, and it's a little tough when the questioner doesn't bother to check the specific archive for his question first.)

Response recorded on July 11, 2000

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Maria Destine writes...

WHEW!!! I like Demona Taina's post about Goliath! She said everything right. But I do agree with her and several others that he does have too strong a temper. But in the troubling times he and his clan are in, I can't really blame him. Still, in the future is it possible to let him learn to control it?
And, when she mentioned that there was a concept picture of Goliath with multiple spikes on his arms and a bony stub at the end of his tail, it made me curious. Where can I see a pic like that? I missed the first two years of the gathering, and in '99 I missed the opening ceremonies. BUAHH!! *Just kidding* ^_^
Anyway, I'm really curious of that. Is there anyway to see some of those concept pics? I'm sure they're not cause it would be considered confidential. But if we could see them, where could I go to see them?
Thanks again. ^_^

Greg responds...

The best way to see them is to attend the opening ceremonies of next month's Gathering in Orlando. We'll have everything we've had in the past and more.

As for Goliath and his temper, well, he's learning...

Response recorded on July 10, 2000

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Demona Taina writes...

This is more of a comment than a ramble, but here you go. :)

I've always admired Goliath. Not only is he handsome, seven feet tall and very strong, but he's much more. He's loving, caring, and so romantic. The way he talks, the way he smiles (when he does) the way he looks at Elisa, the way he touches her hair. Like in the episode "Deadly Force." He almost fell off the castle when Owen told him the bad news. How he almost killed Dracon seeking for revenge.

He is so romantic, it's like he carefully looks for the perfect thing to say all the time. I just love him.

Not only is he loving and caring, but he is intelligent, in his own special way. He may not understand this new world in its entirety, but he does, and he's learning fast. That's one thing I've always admired about him, he's a fast-learner, even Thailog complimented him on that in "Sanctuary."

But that temper. Anything ticks him off. If he could just learn to control it, I think he'd be perfect. For example, "Enter Macbeth," when he found Elisa, Hudson and Broadway outside the castle, and when Elisa told him about "their new home." He was furious, he even screamed at her. "How dare you!?!" Broadway had to pitch in to knock some sense into him, but he still wouldn't listen. That was, until Hudson spoke. He respects Hudson, and that's obvious, but he still couldn't help but roar to the night. And how everyone gasped at that, wow. Great episode.

Back to Goliath. Umm, what else can I say about him? Oh, he can dance. :) And beautifully, may I add. "Eye of the Beholder" is one of my favorite episodes, the way they danced. The way he bowed to her, the way he twirled her. Wow. I've lost count of all the times I've hit the rewind button to watch that scene all over. :)

His sense of honor. He waited for Odin to get up to strike again. He even stopped Demona from dropping a human to a certain death. He lost Demona for struggling to do what was right. Wow.

His manners. He bowed to the Princess even if she had called him and his kind "beasts." It wasn't stern, it wasn't sarcasm, he really meant it. He left the Princess speechless with his manners.

His vocabulary. The only thing close to a curse he's ever said is "Jalapena," and that's not even a curse. He barely uses contractions, too. For example, he says "cannot" instead of "can't." He is so nice. I just love his way of speaking.

His skill, that's one thing I love of him. That's why the Pack wanted to hunt him, Lexington just came in as a bonus, they wanted the excersise, they wanted a thrill. And Goliath was just it. But he beat them, with the help of Lexington.

Oh, yeah, his looks. :) That's the first thing I noticed about him. After thoroughly analyzing the episodes, I realized that he's more than good looks. But back to it, he is handsome. There's no denying that. Elisa literally fell for him the first time she saw him. :) I still don't understand how his hair stands uop like that, but it still makes him very handsome.

His colors are great, too. I mean, he's not dark, nor too light. The colors just suit him. That lavender skin, with that brown hair blue and black wings. Wow. :)

The way he smiles, the way he walks, the way he speaks... it's just so unique. Not even Thailog's like him, and he's a clone. :)

I sound a like a huge fan, don't I? Well, I am, I've always been, and I will always be a huge fan. :)

BTW, I saw somewhere that Goliath had mutliple spikes coming from his arms, and also the tip of his tail ended like Ottello's before he was changed to the way he is now. but a ball or something. Anyway, who changed those features? And why? I think they made him very distinctive.

So, that's all for now. :P I think... there's much more I like about him. Anyway, thank you for your time!

-A devoted fan

Greg responds...

Wow. An ode.

I like him too. But credit where credit is due, a lot of people were involved in Goliath's creation.

First and foremost, Greg Guler, who created the basic design that our current Goliath is based on. Frank Paur chose to streamline that design so that our animators had the best possible chance of animating him consistently and well.

Numerous other artists both here in L.A. and in Japan also contributed. There's one guy in particular in Japan, who jumped on and made a pass in between Greg and Frank. His name, I think, is Mr. Takeuchi. But I'm not 100% sure, and I can't check my files at this moment. My apologies if I've gotten that wrong. (I only ever met him once.)

Then, of course, the writers. Michael Reaves, Brynne Chandler Reaves, Gary Sperling, Cary Bates, Lydia Marano, Steve Perry and others. They captured his voice.

And actor Keith David, who really brought life into that voice. I can't say enough about Keith's talent, training and natural abilities. But I will say that Keith is also a big fan of Goliath's. That may sound strange, but he's said to me that he admires many of the qualities that you listed above. He became a real watchdog (particularly on Goliath Chronicles) to make sure that Goliath sounded like Goliath in voice and in diction. Of course, I also need to credit Jamie Thomason, our voice director. He and Keith made Goliath sound like Goliath.

And Paca Thomas at Advantage Audio who created the growls and roars to supplement Keith's work.

The list is endless, but that's a partial attempt. I'm proud to be one of that group of many.

Response recorded on July 07, 2000

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Maria Destine writes...

Hello again, Greg!!
It's later now! ^_^
I'm not sure how this can be answered, but it's kind of a 'what if scenerio'. What if Goliath and Elisa had been able to have a child naturally? What if they did decide for it? What would happen to make it possible?
You've mentioned before that neither of them would be comfortable going for either science or sorcery. But wht if they decided they wanted a child badly enough? Would they choose science or sorcery? Also, would Goliath become human for Elisa? Or would Elisa become a gargoyle for Goliath?
This probably can't be answered either way, but I thought I'ld ask. I was more curious of what 'could possibly' happen. They're my fav characters. I'm sure they wouldv'e lived happy lives regardless, but I was just curious if something like the above might make life easier for them. Then again, it might make life more difficult. Even for the child if it should be half and half. I mean, someone pointed out that not everyone may accept him/her. Or, he/she would feel like an outcast. And so, that sort of brings another question to mind; How would their 'possible' joining effect their child later in the future?
Thanks again. :)

Greg responds...

Not being who you are, who you FUNDAMENTALLY are, even if it's for someone you love beyond measure, isn't ever, in my opinion, going to make ANYONE happy. Goliath can't be a human. Elisa can't be a gargoyle. Their love transcends species. But it doesn't transcend their identities. Those identities are part of what makes them who they are, part of what makes them lovable to each other.

So we're back to where we started. They can't have children by normal means, because neither is going (assuming they had the option) to switch species. So is it science or sorcery? You ask what if they wanted a child badly enough? But wanting a child badly doesn't mandate science or sorcery. The answer is obvious and much more human. Much more gargoylean too for that matter.

Basically, you're hypothetical doesn't fly in any direction, at least not without ignoring so much about what we know about the two characters that it renders any answer pointless.

Sorry.

Response recorded on July 07, 2000

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Aris Katsaris writes...

In *three* out of the four episodes between 'Gathering' and 'Hunter's Moon', namely in 'Vendettas', in 'Turf' and in 'Possession', Hudson and Goliath are out in patrol together. It seems far too much of a coincidence: was this done intentionally so as to leave the Trio alone with Angela?

In a sense, were the two older gargs realizing that with the coming of Angela, the youngsters would appreciate some time together without intrusion from elders?

Greg responds...

Uh, in my head, Turf and Vendettas were happening simultaneously. I'm not sure that really works as aired. Or really matters for that matter. But that's what was in my head back when we were writing them. So that explains two out of the three. As for Possession, we really did that to make Puck's trick work, if I'm going to be honest.

However, I like your interpretation, so yeah, why not?

Response recorded on July 05, 2000

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Faieq Ali writes...

I have a few questions, which concern my favourite gargoyle/human relationship (and the only gargoyle/human relationship I know about). Now down to the questions:

1) When you say that, the Goliath and Elisa's "wedding", will be way, way down the line, do you mean before 2008 or after 2008?
2)Would any of Goliath and Elisa's kids or grankids, be alive in 2158? (When I first heard that Samson would be Goliath's grandson, I thought he was Elisa's granson aswell. Just thought I'd let you know.)
3)Would their kids even live as long as gargoyles or as long as humans?

Greg responds...

1. I don't know the exact date. Gradual progression. I'd think before 2008 however.

2. No, Samson isn't Elisa's blood grandson, though in human terms he would be her step-grandson, and in garg terms you could certainly call her one of his rookery grandmothers. As for any other children of "the Marriage of Goliath & Elisa", I'd like to keep that a secret for a bit longer.

3. Can't say without giving too much away.

Response recorded on July 05, 2000

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Anonymous writes...

EDUCATING GOLIATH:

Ahem, first, I'd like to thank you, Greg, for helping to create the show. It's the best dang cartoon I've ever seen and you're a genius! I hope you see this and answer my little questions...
1. Who taught Goliath how to read?
2. Does Goliath know how to write?...and if he does, who taught him?
3. Who taught Goliath those great manners of his? Is he just naturally well mannered? It can't be because his elders taught him that because "all" the Gargoyles would be as, or near, well mannered as he. He's got the best darn posture I've seen among all the Gargoyles. And the graceful way he moves...wow! It seems like he went to Charm School...! Sorry, I hope I don't sound too much of a fool, I'm just curious. Thanks if you answer my questions.

Greg responds...

1. Demona.

2. Yes. Demona.

3. Generally, I'd say it does come naturally to him. Certainly the posture thing is inherant. But he learned a ton from Hudson, of course. And quite a bit from Hudson's mate.

Response recorded on June 30, 2000

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Kevy Kakes writes...

In the episode 'Future Tense,' Demona is killed by Cyber-Xanatos, didn't Goliath know something was up then? Because clearly Xanatos is not MacBeth, and therefore cannot kill Demona...Puck knew Demona was immortal because of 'The Mirror,' did Puck just kinda forget, or was he not worried about the details of his little scheme. Just a little somethin' somethin' to ponder and answer for us, or just me

Greg responds...

I think that Goliath's head was fairly well turned upside down by all that had happened up to that point.

As for Puck, what in "The Mirror" gives you the impression that Puck/Owen knows about the Demona/Macbeth connection?

Response recorded on June 29, 2000

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Jeff Lenihan writes...

Mr. Weisman,
I had a couple of questions regarding the double date you said you planned on sending Elisa and Goliath on.
1)In your mind, would Goliath have been dating Delilah out of any real interest in her as a person, or would it only have been a superficial attraction based on her resemblance to Elisa?
2)Obviously, Elisa wouldn't be thrilled about the idea of Goliath dating anyone. Do you think, however, that she would resent Goliath (either consciously or subconciously) for dating Delilah, who basically looks like a gargoyle version of herself? I ask this mainly due to the events of "The Mirror." Goliath's statment about not recognizing her beauty when she was human, coupled with his reluctance to answer her question as to whether he thought she was ugly, could be interpreted to mean that he only found her beautiful when she had a gargoyle's form.(Granted, I think you stated previously that this wasn't what you meant for him to be saying, but it could be interpreted that way)
3)You said you were considering Jason as a potential date for Elisa. Given the fact that Elisa told him in Hunter's Moon 3 that there was someone in her life who would always come before him, wouldn't it be uncharacteristically cruel for her to then turn around and make him think he had a chance with her after all?

Greg responds...

1. I think it would have had a lot MORE to do with the fact that Elisa WANTED him to "see other people, gargoyles, whatever..." Delilah is the only real option in NYC at this time.

2. O.K., for starters, saying "they're dating" is pushing it. Rather, Elisa and Goliath experiment with not seeing each other. Their dates (for this one night) are basically being used a bit. So, yes, I think seeing Goliath with Delilah would disturb Elisa. And frankly, seeing Delilah period is just disturbing for Elisa. But seeing Elisa with another man would also disturb Goliath. They're trying to make the best of their mutual decision that seeing each other is impossible. But let's just say the date does not go smoothly.

And by the way, you're misrepresenting me with regards to "The Mirror". I think in fact that Goliath did NOT find Elisa sexually attractive until "The Mirror" allowed him to see her through a gargoyle's eyes. There was always chemistry there. But it was based on (a) her physical attraction to him and (b) a strong emotional and spiritual connection. After "The Mirror", Goliath also maintained a physical attraction to Elisa. He was no longer blinded by her human characteristics.

3. Would it be any crueler for her to go out with Morgan, who had no idea about her relationship with G? At least Jason wouldn't be blind-sided. Anyway, she isn't trying to be cruel. This is a sincere attempt. As far as her rational mind is concerned, the guy might really have a chance if things work out. I'm not saying there's no potential for cruelty involved. Welcome to the world of dating. But in any case, it's one date. A first date. So let's not over-react.

Response recorded on June 29, 2000

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VF writes...

My two young daughters prompted me to watch "Gargoyles," and now I'm hooked, too--just for different reasons. Hmm, then again, maybe not for different reasons. ...

I think it's great that you incorporated elements of Shakespeare, Arthurian legend, etc. (My kids really impressed their preschool teacher when they started name-dropping Shakespearean characters left and right.)

And I am especially impressed with how you and your colleagues were able to make me care so much about animated characters--a definite tribute to the quality of the storytelling and characterization is my guess. The romantic in me just loves the careful development of the Goliath/Elisa relationship. Subtle-but-emotion-filled glances, touches and comments (sometimes even unbeknownst to the characters themselves) make it all the more romantic and all the more regrettable that there are no more episodes to see it play out further.

My question relates to "Hunter's Moon, Part III." How does Goliath internalize his failure to save Elisa since he had promised that he would always be there for her (I think in "The Gathering")? Now, granted, I don't think Elisa would ever expect ANYONE to always be there to save her (although it's a nice and loving concept she can appreciate). But I think Goliath expects it of himself and would have a difficult time, at some point, accepting that he was not able to save her (not to mention that he was in part responsible for causing her to fall, albeit accidentally) and would not be able to just put that behind him.

Of course, I'm the first to cheer when their relationship does move to the next level with the kiss and all (and later in "The Journey" with the mutual statement that neither of them regrets their chosen path). The earlier "Hunter's Moon" scenes involving Jason, as well as the revelation that Elisa is OK after all, certainly provide the two with plenty of compelling motivation to more openly acknowledge how they feel about each other. But still, I can't help feeling Goliath's characterization would not allow him to simply consider all that happened while he was caught up in seeking vengeance as a lesson learned and move on. Your thoughts? (And thank you.)

Greg responds...

Wow. I like letters like yours, thanks. THis response is so long after your post, I just hope you stop by to see it.

I don't think anything was settled. And I think some of the TREMENDOUS FURY coming off Goliath after Elisa's "death" was an obvious result of guilt -- classic Demona-style-"I'm blaming you for my failing"-guilt. But once she's revealed to be alive, obviously, a huge chunk of that goes away. I imagine that sometime, off camera, he had some kind of, "You nearly died and it was my fault" moment with her. And she immediately said something incredibly sensible. He's smart enough to KNOW she's right. But that doesn't change how he feels. Obviously, again, he'd continue to be protective of her. But they're way past the point where he can pretend that he can some how keep her out of dangerous situations.

So the CRISIS is on hold. But I think it'll surface, at the worst possible moment, the next time her life is truly -- as opposed to every-episode-casually -- on the line.

Response recorded on June 26, 2000

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Michael Norton writes...

Greg,

In a recent response you said "It was one of the reasons that I made Oberon & Titania's skin Blue and Green. I didn't want to imply that white "godlings" ruled the others."

I think that is very cool. But did you consider making the human guises that Oberon and Titania chose more ethnically ambiguous instead of "white"?

Greg responds...

Not with Titania, since she was Fox's mother.

With Oberon, I could have. Probably should have. Didn't. The decisions were months apart, and I guess I lost track.

I did try to make the human Goliath in "The Mirror" appear with more ethnically African. I'm not sure if that was clear, since his hair looked more European (to match Goliath's hair). But I did this to increase the connection between human Goliath and Elisa. And between human Goliath and Keith David.

And that might be why Oberon wound up Caucasian. Not a great excuse. But subconsciously, we may all have been influence by the fact that Terrance Mann, the voice of Oberon was/is Caucasian.

Response recorded on June 23, 2000

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Chris writes...

1)Do Goliath and Demona have any other children besides Angela? And if so, do you mind if I ask who?

2)Since there's no chance of Goliath and Demona ever getting back together, will they ever be friends again, or at least not at each other's throats?

Thanks for your time.

Greg responds...

1. Biological children? No. Rookery children? Yes. The entire Avalon clan, including Gabriel and Ophelia.

2. They will, on occasion, be allies again.

Response recorded on June 23, 2000

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Jeremy writes...

First i would like to say that GARGOYLES was the best show i have ever seen.My first question is have you got any new offers on bringing back the series?Have you tried HBO they picked up spawn which is another kick ass show?I think they would jump at gargoyles and it would give you more freedom.If hbo did pick up gargoyles would the story's be more risky using adult themes such as drug use,swearing,nudity or murder.I personaly would love to see the saga shift into a more adult series.

Greg responds...

First off, no. No one has suggested bringing the show back except me. HBO isn't likely to want it, or to get it for that matter even assuming they did want it. They didn't "pick up" Spawn, they were the ones who brought it to the screen in the first place.

As to whether the show would get "more adult" if we had the non-broadcast freedom to be, the answer would generally be "no". I think the show appeals to adults now, without adding gratuitous elements. I wouldn't shy away from doing a drug story if I had a good story to tell about drugs. Adding curse words and nudity for their own sake doesn't interest me. I like nudity as much as the next guy, but it would have to fit. We basically showed Fox nude at the end of "Eye of the Beholder", because it made sense that she'd have no clothes on after her transformation. But I'm not out to arouse anyone. As for murder, hey, been there, done that.

The show's the show. I'd love to have freedom from standards and practices, but I won't ignore my own standards.

On the other hand, the show might get more mature, in the sense that Goliath and Elisa's relationship would continue to mature. That doesn't mean we'd be showing them engaged in sex acts, but we'd deal maturely with inter-species romance. At least I'd hope so.

Response recorded on June 19, 2000

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Nick writes...

Hey hey. I still remember seeing the first episode of Gargoyles. I guess I was about 9 or so. I still get goosebumps when I watch the intro. And I wasnt surprised to read that you work on the ST series. I've watched it too from its first broadcast (in my area anyway). I think I've only missed it 3 times but seeing how they dont play the episodes in any specific order odds are I havent missed anything I havent already seen. But onto my question. Can you sum up the Goliath Chronacles for me? I never saw them since for a while I didnt have cable and dont currently have toon disney. Thanks.

Greg responds...

Erin says: I think that was a very good question. I have a friend at school and his name is Nicholas. And he likes the GARGOYLES show too. And Nicholas has a nickname, and his nickname is Nick.

Greg says: I'll sum up "The Journey" which was the first episode of THE GOLIATH CHRONICLES: Goliath is brooding about the loss of the Clock Tower and about how humanity seems to be perpetually at odds with the Gargoyles. He visits Elisa. And they are attacked by Quarrymen, a KKK-esque organization that hates Gargoyles. Elisa & Goliath survive, and Goliath realizes his Journey isn't over. (A lot more happens, but you asked me to sum up.) As for the other 12 episodes of Chronicles, well, I had nothing to do with them. They aren't cannon in my mind. And I'm not qualified to describe them to you. Ask in a comment room.

Response recorded on June 17, 2000

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Chapter XIII: "Reawakening" (The new ramble...)

As promised, I'll now attempt to recreate the lost ramble on this episode, which I recently watched again with my family.

For those of you who haven't seen it, I refer you to my recently posted "Memo" on this episode dated back in April of 1994. One thing you might have noticed was that the title of the episode was "The Awakening". In the memo, I suggested what I thought was the more appropriate title "Reawakening". Michael liked that idea but had a suggestion that did it one better. He suggested renaming our pilot five-parter "Awakening". I jumped at the idea. At the time, the five-parter was simply titled "Gargoyles, Part One", "Gargoyles, Part Two", etc. I've never liked that sort of cop out where the pilot's title is simply the series' title. Among other things, it lacks imagination. And it's dishonest. By that standard, "The Journey"'s real title should have been "Gargoyles, Part Sixty-Six". So giving our pilot its own title seemed like a very good idea to me.

But there was another reason why I liked Michael's plan. We were working on our last episode of the first season. It was April of 1994, nearly a year before that episode would air. And a good six months before our premiere. There was no way of knowing whether or not there would ever be a SECOND season. And so to protect myself (emotionally) I had to operate on the assumption that their might not be. Obviously, I wasn't going to do anything apocalyptic. I wanted there to be a second season, so I wanted to leave the doorway open for it. So Michael, Frank, Brynne and I discussed the idea of open-ended closure. If there never was a second season, we'd go out with a bang. We'd give some small amount of closure to our characters. Let them reach a turning point. If this was to be it, we'd have created a little 13 episode novel that brought the Gargoyles from the past to the present and renewed (reawakened) their sense of purpose.

Nice. We'd done the open-ended closure thing (to a lesser degree) at the end of what would eventually be called "Awakening, Part Five" and we'd eventually do it again at the end of "Hunter's Moon, Part Three". And I'd do it for myself in my script for "The Journey".

But there are tricks to achieving a sense of closure. And one of the tricks is to create parallels with the episodes that launched your story.

So by retro-titling our pilot "Awakening" and naming our last ep "RE-Awakening" you can see how we gave ourselves a headstart.

But there were other parallels. The flashback to the past, (which we intentionally built so that it could theoretically be edited into the pilot if necessary) included the Magus at his most pre-Avalon obnoxious. Obviously, that flashback also intro'd pre-Coldstone, but it served the purpose of calling those first couple of flashback episodes clearly into the viewers' minds. (The only problem with that scene, is that Hudson has his sword in a couple of the shots. This is a mistake, as any good Garg fan knows that Hudson first acquired his sword in the battle with the Vikings that took place the following night.)

We also did the big event VILLAIN TEAM-UP thing, bringing Xanatos and Demona back together for the first time since "Awakening, Part Five". (I love the exquisite tension that plays between them. They are both SO using each other. When Demona tells Coldstone that X is her servant, you know that she's partly doing that to circumvent Coldstone's questions, but that she also partly believes that it's true.)

We also used Morgan in Times Square in a very similar way to how he was used in "Awakening, Part One" (reiterated in "Awakening, Part Two").

And then there's that moment near the end where Elisa asks Goliath if there's anything he needs. He answers "A Detective" verbally echoing a key moment from their first meeting in "Awakening, Part Three". That still tickles me.

HOMAGE

Obviously, Frank and I both worked overtime to pay homage to the classic Universal "FRANKENSTEIN" movie. I can say "pay homage" with a straight face (as opposed to rip off) because we so clearly acknowledged the source. Frank's art direction of the lab. X's line: "It's alive! Alive!" (Wonderfully undercut by Jonathan Frakes' reading of the follow-up "I've always wanted to say that.") And the whole idea behind Coldstone. (More on this when I eventually ramble on "Legion".)

Coldstone would be our Frankenstein's monster. Pieced together. Gargoyle & Machine. Reanimated (reawakened). I even love the Coldstone name. And wasn't Michael Dorn's sepulchral tones just perfect for the role?

And Goliath's reaction is so multi-faceted, so Dr. Frankenstein... [You know Goliath's response to his brother here, would be echoed later in his response to his "son" Thailog in "Double Jeopardy". Initially, Goliath's simply repulsed by what he sees, calling Coldstone "an abomination". But given a bit of time, Goliath quickly sees past appearances and attempts whole-heartedly to save his brother. He'll go through the same changes with Thailog. Well... at least we (and Goliath) were consistent.]

CONTINUITY

Snow. It started snowing in "Her Brother's Keeper" and now the city is blanketed in the stuff. (And doesn't Elisa look cute in her scarf and gloves.)

Brooklyn's still pissed off at Demona, specifically and sarcastically asking if she has anymore "spells to save you now". In fact, we wanted to make clear that the spell used to resurrect (reawaken) Coldstone was one of the spells she tore out of the Grimorum in "Temptation". Instead, we cheated a bit. By having her tell Xanatos that the "Cantrips have already been spoken" it saved us the trouble of getting another spell translated into Latin. We were either lazy or short on time or -- most likely -- both.

Following out of "The Edge", and until the helmet comes off at the bridge, the gargs assume that Xanatos in his armor is simply another Steel Clan Robot. The next upgrade. The red model. They have no idea it's actually Xanatos himself in armor.

Small observation: Mirrors don't fare too well in the Gargoyles Universe.

Emotionally, I think the story is very successful at taking the audience through Goliath's spiritual reawakening. I love how he starts out pensive and brooding, listening to that great exchange between the trio and Hudson, realizing that all of them have lost track of their true purpose. Hudson recites the Gargoyle credo merely as an excuse not to go out in the cold. (And I love Thom's reading on Lex's "We don't even live in a castle anymore" response.) The trio are clearly missing the point, but methodical thinker Goliath isn't sure he remembers what the point is either.

And that dovetails SO nicely with Elisa revealing the Police motto "Protect and Serve". The police motto/gargoyle credo connection is so perfect, it struck me even at the time as further proof that we were tapping into something very true in our little fictions. (And don't cops -- for better and sometimes for worse -- act just like a clan?)

From there, Goliath moves past the notion of simply being a reactive character, struggling only to SURVIVE one crisis after another. Now he will strive to be proactive. To rededicate (reawaken) the clan toward their original life purpose. Extending the term "castle" to Manhattan island was always our plan. Even that was intentionally primitive in our view. Goliath doesn't protect New York City. Not all five burroughs anyway. That's beyond his medieval scope at this still-early stage. He can get his head around protecting an island surrounded by water. Not the whole world. But eventually, the plan would include expanding the clan's definition until Castle Earth was the only thing that made sense. Of course, that might not have been fully realized until 2158. But we'd have gotten there. And the World Tour was part of that process too.

PROBLEMS
(Besides Hudson's sword...)

--One line in the ep. that for some reason still makes me cringe is Elisa's "My car's big." It just seems awkward to me. Not sure why.

X & D watch Coldstone's progress from the castle. Almost instantaneously they're at Times Square. We always knew we were just skating by on that.

Goliath & Coldstone go into the water at the bridge TWICE within the span of a couple of minutes or so. The first time, Goliath nearly drowns. The second time he's completely uneffected (physically) by the experience. We get away with it because the second time he's diving in on purpose. But just the fact that we had to dunk them both twice is an awkward construction (and my fault). At least, Goliath looks good with wet hair.

Some really graceful animation here. Goliath has some great moves, and I love that moment when Matt and especially Elisa are diving into the snow, out of the way of the car that Coldstone has just thrown... And speaking of that scene...

TIMES SQUARE SEQUENCE

There's some very interesting, fun stuff here besides what I've already mentioned about it above. A sampling:

Explosions in Bambi. :)

Demona's Clan: Herself, Coldstone, a Steel Clan Robot and Xanatos in Gargoyle Battle Armor. It's so twisted. I love it.

Goliath's very smart here. He doesn't want the fight to take place in public and basically convinces Xanatos to take his side on the issue by flattering him. Goliath refers to Manhattan as "your city" (i.e. Xanatos' city), this despite the obvious fact that Goliath does NOT regard Manhattan as Xanatos' personal property. And Xanatos, usually immune to such stuff, falls for it -- maybe BECAUSE it comes from the ultra-sincere Goliath.

I also am very fond of the Mr. Jaffe book-ends. I think they're a lot of fun. And I love how Matt talks about Mr. Jaffe. It gives us insight into Matt's character, his background, his youth. His empathy for Jaffe really helps humanize him. Matt was always eminently human.

Signing off now...

"Because six monsters just told me to..."


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Chapter XIII: "Reawakening" (background rambling)

I'm trying something different with this ramble. And because of recent difficulties, I'm going to break the Ramble into two parts. My thoughts on reviewing the episode last Friday night will need to be recreated from scratch. And I'll get to that as soon as I can.

But first I thought you guys might appreciate a little background. What follows is a long memo that I wrote to Story Editor Michael Reaves after receiving the first draft of writer Brynne Chandler Reaves' outline on our thirteenth and final episode of the first season. Pay careful attention to the date of the memo and the title of the episode. I'll comment on both sometime in the next few days...

THE MEMO (unedited):

To: Michael Reaves Date: 4-10-94

From: Greg Weisman Ext: 7436

Re: Notes on "The Awakening" / Outline for 4319-013 of GARGOYLES

GENERAL NOTES
This is a tough one, because in this episode, we have a very specific mission, which is to remind Goliath of his. In order to accomplish this, I'd like to focus both our efforts and Goliath's soul-searching. These aren't simple concepts but I'm gonna try and go through them in baby steps. This is less for our benefit than for the benefit of our audience & Goliath. (Remember, Goliath is a determined thinker if not a quick one.)

Goliath spends the episode searching for the true meaning behind the gargoyle motto, "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."

We begin by defining our terms. Goliath first needs to understand the following equation: "Castle = Home = Family = Community". He more or less learned the Castle through Family section in "ENTER MACBETH", but we'll need to reiterate the lesson in some way for our audience. Then we need to take him the final step from Family to Community.

After that (or perhaps simultaneously), he needs to decide on what is meant by "protect". Protect what? The physical structure he lives in? No. Again, Home leads into Family which leads into Community.

Protect why? To survive in a hostile environment? Ultimately and by the end of the episode Goliath decides/remembers that to survive is not enough. Coldstone and Demona provide cautionary proof; both of them are abominations of a sort, created in the name of "Survival". Survival ("breathing the air") is important, but clearly survival isn't enough. Goliath and his clan need purpose. They need to return to the mission: Protect the castle (i.e. protect the community).

This dovetails nicely w/Elisa's mission as a cop: "To protect and serve." And leaves us, at the end of our first season, with a more pro-active group of heroes.

SPECIFIC NOTES
Just a few specifics that aren't covered in the beat outline that follows.

Page 1.
--The trio saw snow last episode. Let's make the winter weather the backdrop to the action. Not part of the story.
--I don't think we want to light any fires in the clock tower.

Page 2.
--We no longer need Madame Serena in this story. Plus she adds another new element to a pretty full plate.
--Remember this is one of the spells that Demona ripped from the Grimorum back in "Temptation".

Page 3.
--Coldstone wouldn't name himself. It's not gargoylean thing to do. And he hasn't been awake long enough to know he needs a name. Let Demona do it.

Page 7
--I think we can fit the action of this story into one night, so this is kind of a moot point, but I don't think Demona would risk sleeping as stone in Xanatos' castle. She doesn't trust anyone that much.
--Let's not overplay Matt's conspiracy fettish. It's o.k., but we don't want him to come off as a "babbling".

Page 11
--Remember, unless we're getting biblical here, Gargoyles weren't "created". They have very strong territorial and protective instincts. These instincts are as strong as their survival instinct. But I want to make sure we don't imply that they were magically created by someone or something who gave them a mission.

Finally, if I could recommend a title change... how about "Re-Awakening" instead of "The Awakening". I think it's a bit more appropriate all the way around.

ACT ONE
1. Prologue #1 - Present Day Manhattan - All-Nite Grocery - Winter Night
--It's snowing in Manhattan and will continue to snow until the last scene.
--A lone thief holds up the owner of a small and otherwise empty All-Nite grocery store.
--Thief tells the owner: "I guess we just live in dangerous times.

2. Prologue#2 - Flashback to 994 A.D. Scotland - Castle Wyvern - Night
(Note this scene happened off-camera during part one of the five-parter, somewhere around page 24 of script #4319-001.)
--Goliath informs Hudson that they must leave to harry the vikings far away.
--He'll need Hudson's tracking skills.
--Demona and "pre-Coldstone" gargoyle (Goliath's rookery brother) are also present.
--Magus comes thru and says or does something obnoxious.
--Demona, secretly desperate for Goliath to bring them all along, asks why they bother protecting the human's castle at all?
--Pre-Coldstone agrees: "Let them keep the castle, we can survive anywhere."
--(We see he is of a semi-simlar mind-set to Demona, which explains why she uses him 1000 years later for Coldstone.)
--Hudson firmly states the gargoyle mission statement: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..."
--Goliath instructs his rookery brother to stay w/Demona and protect.

3. Present Day - Winter - Clock Tower - Night
--Goliath's been daydreaming (at night) about old memories.
--Trio are going to a movie; they invite Hudson along.
--Hudson's a couch potato. He'll wait to see it on cable. Besides he's got to guard their home.
--Trio: We live over a police station. What could happen? We don't have to guard the place every night.
--Hudson tosses off gargoyle truism: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..." (But that's just an excuse to be left alone.)
--Goliath reacts silently, realizing their mission has lost meaning for the gargoyles, even Hudson. Maybe even himself.
--Trio leaves ("We don't even live in a castle anymore...")
--As Elisa enters.
--She wants to know how gargoyles are "surviving" the cold weather.
--G says they're fairly immune... to the elements.
--Elisa starts to leave for her shift w/offhand remark: "Time to do a little of the old 'Protect and Serve'."
--G stops her to find out what she means.
--Police motto.
--But what does it mean? Protect who?
--(Maybe Elisa can get us from Castle to Family here.)
--Goliath decides to accompany Elisa on the night shift.
--Which is a bit problematic now that she has a partner.

4. Castle
--Demona has talked a reluctant Xanatos into another attempt to destroy Goliath.
--Xanatos & Demona use science & sorcery to revive creature made from cybernetics and mismatched gargoyle parts. (The head is that of Goliath's rookery brother, our pre-Coldstone, augmented by cybernetic-eye & etc.)
--Demona names him Coldstone.
(--Perhaps she represents Xanatos as her servant. Perhaps he allows it.)
(--Note: in this episode, I think we want to sense a tension between X & D, but I don't think we want to bust them up here. It's distracting and we have enough to deal with.)
--Coldstone's confused. Last thing he remembers is Goliath & Hudson leaving the castle. Then came sunrise and oblivion.
--Demona: "Goliath abandoned us to the mercy of humans."
--He has been seduced by their beliefs.
--It is because of him that you look like this....
--It's mirror time.
--Does audience see him or do we save that revelation?

5. Manhattan Streets / All-Nite Grocery / Rooftop across the street.
--Elisa & Matt are driving in her car.
--Goliath is following them from above. (She's given him a walkie-talkie or headset or something. She's basically wearing a wire so that he can be on her shift with her.)
--They investigate All-Nite grocery store robbery from scene 1. (Not a crime in progress. Remember, they are detectives, not beat cops.)
--While Matt questions the owner...
--Goliath, watching from above, is able to talk quietly w/Elisa.
--We get from Family to Community.
--Elisa: No one wants to live a prisoner of their own castle anymore. We live in a community. The whole community needs to work together...
--G: "To survive." (He still hasn't gotten it yet.)
--Radio call: "All available units."

6. Times Square.
--That tortured soul, Coldstone, is going bonkers.
--(He hated "Cats". No, wait... he hates humans.)
--(Physical strength only. No robotic weaponry yet.)
--Morgan and other cops are just securing the perimeter, keeping people clear.
--From a distance, Goliath surmises another Xanatos robot ploy. (He sees the occasional metallic glint. The rest is in shadow.) He won't be dragged into another of Xanatos' schemes.
--Elisa & Matt don't have that luxury. They approach the thing. Tell it to cease and desist, etc.
--Coldstone prepares to throw a small car at them or something.
--As Goliath reacts, we fade out.

ACT TWO
7. Times Square.
--With Elisa endangered, Goliath doesn't hesitate to intervene and save her and a flabergasted Matt.
--Now Coldstone really goes ballistic. Literally. Barrel rises from robotic arm and fires.
--Goliath dodges or maybe he is hit, but Coldstone is too shocked to notice. --He didn't know he could do that.
--(Xanatos had a pre-programmed battle mode built-into his circuitry.)
--While C is figuring this out, Goliath comes in and smashes him.
--It's only in close that Goliath realizes he's not fighting a robot.
--(Is this the audience's first full look at Coldstone too??)
--And it's only now that Coldstone recognizes G.
--But all this convinces Coldstone that Demona was telling the truth.
--Goliath is attacking his own rookery brother to defend a human.
--But Goliath is out-matched, and soon losing.

8. Inside Orpheum Theatre (Times Square).
--Trio are watching movie from balcony.
--(As Broadway did in "Deadly Force").
-- "There sure are an awful lot of explosions in this movie."
--But are those explosions coming from outside?
--Suddenly movie stops. House lights come up.
--On ground level, Morgan is ushering people out the back entrance, calmly and for their own safety.
--Trio exit to see what's going on.

9. Times Square.
--Trio arrive in time to save Goliath from Coldstone.
--Coldstone surrounded by all four gargoyles.
--Looks like the tide of battle might have shifted.
--We see gargoyles thru Coldstone's robot POV.

10. Castle.
--Matchcut to Xanatos office monitor.
--Seems he gets a direct feed on whatever Coldstone sees or hears.
--X to D: Looks like sonny-boy's having trouble making friends.
--(No indication that they're going to help yet.)

11. Times Square.
--Goliath does not attack; he's still trying to put everything together.
--Could this abomination really be his rookery brother?
--At first, Goliath doesn't talk to Coldstone, rather he speaks about "it".
--Which of course doesn't endear him to Coldy one bit.
--G tries a kinder, gentler approach.
--Might even be starting to reach him.
--G: What happened to you, pal?
--From off-screen Demona says: "We did."
--Goliath, trio and Coldstone turn to see Demona, Xanatos in Gargoyle armor and a Steel Clan Robot. Fade to black.

ACT THREE
12. Times Square.
--Stand-off.
--Demona: If you're going to bring your whole clan, you can't expect me not to bring mine.
--G: You call that a clan?
--Coldstone is torn, confused. What should he do?
--Demona: "Destroy Goliath. Destroy him, and we survive."
--Coldstone looks down at his cobbled-together form: "Is this survival?"
--Demona tells him not to be fooled by appearance.
--Goliath and the others have been corrupted by humans.
--"We are the only real gargoyles left."
--Travis Marshall pulls up in newsvan.
--While cameraman is setting up, Elisa uses "wire" to warn Goliath.
--Goliath appeals to Xanatos
--(Probably doesn't yet know that Xanatos IS one of the robots.)
--(G thinks he's talking by radio-link via the robots.)
--G: It's your city, X, shouldn't we reconvene someplace less fragile.
--Demona doesn't like the idea, but Xanatos insists.
--(She's not ready to sever their partnership yet).
--Xanatos quietly names a spot that only Goliath (and Elisa via their wire) can hear.
--The eight combatants fly off, severally.
--Marshall only gets the tail end on camera.

13. Clock Tower.
--Hudson sees Marshall's report on t.v.
--Discusses dilemma (theoretically w/Bronx, but he's really talking to himself).
--Goliath told them to stay and guard the tower.
--What should he do?

14. George Washington Bridge.
(Or whatever bridge is closest to Times Square.)
--Your basic battle royale...on the bridge, in the air. Among other things...
--Brooklyn goes after Demona.
--He's still mad at her from "Temptation."
--Which allows Goliath and Coldstone to continue their face-off.
--The Steel Clan robot is destroyed.
--Xanatos is forced to unmask.
--But generally, the bad guys are winning, if barely.
--Coldstone & Goliath plunge into the icy river.

15. The River.
--Coldstone's got a built-in breathing apparatus that extends over his mouth and nose automatically.
--As they struggle underwater, Goliath's losing air and consciousness.
--G. hears Hudson's voice: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."
--Suddenly, Goliath is pulled out of the water... by Coldstone.

16. An Ice flow.
--As G. gasps for breath he sees that a battered Demona and Xan have the drop on an even more battered Trio. The fight is over; the good guys lost.
--Demona's glad Coldstone saved G. for her to finish off.
--But Coldstone wants some answers first.
--Coldstone: "You said if Goliath dies. We would survive."
--Again, he indicates himself: "Is that all there is... surviving?"
--Demona's almost tender with him, but what she says is something like: "That's all that counts."
--But Goliath has finally figured it out. Surviving is not enough. To merely survive at all costs is not the gargoyle way. Gargoyles protect the way gargoyles breathe. To forget that leads to true corruption. Not the corruption of humans, or even Coldstone's metallic corruption. But the bitter fanaticism of Demona's corrupt soul. Or something like that.
--Of course, Demona's not just gonna sit there and let Goliath speechify forever.
--She takes aim.
--Coldstone leaps between them, takes the blast and is blown off the ice into the water. He does not resurface.
--Goliath immediately dives in after his brother.
--Demona fires into the water at both of them.
--She is furious at Coldstone's betrayal.
--Trio try to take some advantage of situation, but Xanatos won't allow it.
--Suddenly, the ice seems to be hit from above by a cannonball that sends everyone reeling.
--That was no cannonball that was Bronx. Hudson dropped him from on high.
--Again, the tide has turned. And it's all Xanatos can do to grab Demona and rocket her out of there.
--Goliath comes up for air. There's no sign of Coldstone.
--Goliath has lost his only surviving brother.

17. Epilogue #1 - Bridge.
--The six gargoyles are climbing back up the bridge. (They'll need some height to glide home.)
--Hudson apologizes for abandoning their home, the clock tower.
--Goliath points toward Manhattan and says something like: "The clock tower is where we sleep. But our home is that island. Our castle is Manhattan. And gargoyles always protect their castle... and anyone, human or gargoyle who resides within."
--Elisa pulls up in her car. It took her awhile to get clear of Matt.
--Are they o.k.? Do they need anything?
--Goliath: "I need a detective."

18. Epilogue #2 - All-Nite Grocery - Dawn.
--The thief from scene 1 comes in again.
--The owner is scared at first but the thief is very contrite.
--He gives back all the money and asks the owner to call the police so that he can turn himself in.
--When the flabbergasted owner asks why, the frightened thief replies: "Six monsters and a cop told me to."

19. Rooftop across the street from the All-Nite Grocery - Morning.
--In the cold early morning wind amid hazy sunlight, Elisa stands on the roof across the street from the grocery store amid six horrific stone gargoyles.
--Elisa watches, as Morgan (at the end of his shift) takes the thief away in his squad car.
--Elisa: "Well, it's a start. Xanatos, Demona, you two are next."
--The sun breaks through the clouds, shining brightly on a beautiful winter's day in Manhattan.
--E: "You know, guys, the city feels safer already."
--She leaves them there to sleep and heads home after a long night.
--FADE.

End of memo. My real Ramble should come soon.


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Thank you Blaise

Blaise wrote:

In the end, two things above all others IMHO should be remembered in ANY debate of Goliath vs. Brooklyn:
1) Brooklyn admires and looks up to Goliath, despite any disagreements.
2) Goliath made Brooklyn Second-in-command because he felt Brooklyn was best suited for the job.
To put down one is actually indirectly putting down the other.

That bears repeating:

TO PUT DOWN ONE IS ACTUALLY INDIRECTLY PUTTING DOWN THE OTHER.

You guys can do what you want, of course.

And I certainly don't mind in depth discussions of either character. I thought Toku Kaioto's essay on Brooklyn was fantastic.

And I don't mind a fun poll like: "Ladies, which garg-hunk do you prefer?"

But I don't really see what you get by putting the characters' natures in opposition debate, as if they were or are in some competition with each other.

Now I promise, that was my last word on the subject.


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Joxter the Mighty writes...

Recently, when someone asked you what other cartoons you liked, you mentioned among them, "Old Development Bonkers"... What did you mean by that?

Greg responds...

There were two versions of Bonkers. One that I developed which featured Bonkers, Jitters, Sgt. Grating and Miranda Wright.

There were some problems on the show that came to light when episodes first came back from overseas. Disney panicked. Over-reacted. They basically took everyone off the show and started from scratch with a new developement and production team.

They tossed everything but Bonkers himself. Brought in Detective Piquel, and I think, watered down the premise. Some of the episodes might have been individually better -- and I think the art direction was definitely improved, but the ideas that made the show unique were flattened or ignored.

Then to add insult to injury they aired all the NEW episodes first, and created a "Transition episode" to transition from the Piquel episodes to the Miranda episodes, making it appear as if our stuff had been an afterthought. Given that our show didn't LOOK as good, it made us seem like a poor replacement, when in fact I think our stories were better (just my opinion).

By the way, the Miranda/Bonkers relationship was a clear precedent for Elisa/Goliath. (Doesn't that seem strange?) And because I didn't get to play out all my HILL STREET BLUES inspired cop ideas in Bonkers, it gave impetus to making Elisa a cop so that I could play that stuff out in Gargoyles.

Response recorded on April 07, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

In your vision, how does Goliath feel about Broadway and Angela's relationship? Does he approve of Broadway as a future "son-in-law"?

Greg responds...

Of course.

But again, try not to think too much like a human. Angela is just one of many clan-daughters. Since you know he likes Broadway, why wouldn't he want the big guy to mate with one of them?

Response recorded on April 07, 2000

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Adam writes...

Hi Greg

Once again thanks for the opportunity to chew the fat.

One thing that always bothered me was how easliy the surviving clan memebers pick up their lives after the sudden murder of almost everyone they cared for. When they wake up in Manhattan for the first time, by their reckoninging, the massacre occurred the day before and would be fresh in their minds. I couldn't even imagine getting out of bed or even wanting to go on if I lost my family. Yet the trio are resilient enough to go exploring. I know they are in a brave new world and all but would they be so thrill seeking after so recently being rocked with grief. I hope I don't sound overly critical here, I don't mean to be. It just appears that the emotional impact of the massacre on the clan isn't as pervasive through the series as I'd expect. I just keep coming back to the notion that grief over a loss of that magnitude would be almost paralyzing. Would they even want to be alive?. Obviously, for the show, yes but ..... uhhh .

And then there is Tempatation. I know Brooklyn is grateful to Demona for saving him from the bikers, but you have to think that in the back of his mind he's thinking, "My family and friends were killed because of what you did !" I'm surprised he didn't go for her throat. How angry are we at the drunk driver who unintnentional kills. I certainly wouldn't want to be in the same room with that individual let alone take a tour of the city them.

If the clan is capable of getting on with their lives so quicky and still not give into to hating Demona then they are certainly better than I am.

Greg responds...

The massacre is fresh in their minds, because no new experiences have taken their place. But they were asleep. Not in suspended animation. There is a sense of time having passed. A long time. A lot of dreaming. Not the next day.

I think maybe we could have, and should have, done more with survivors' guilt, post-traumatic stress syndrome, devastation, etc. We mostly personified that in Goliath, in episodes like "Awakening, Part Two" and "Shadows of the Past". It WAS more emblematic than honest, I'm afraid.

But, yeah, we did have a series to do. And five suicidal miserable gargoyles don't make for much of a show. Plus, I think we gave them REASONS to go on. A new world to explore and understand. Opponents to distract them. New friends to help mitigate the pain. And we did deal with it on occasion and would have continued to do the same.

As for "Temptation", I think the very confusion that the Massacre engendered kept Brooklyn from thinking straight. When there are so few gargoyles and we know that humans (i.e. the Vikings) did the actual killing, it's hard to know (that early on) whether or not to maintain a hate for Demona. Obviously, after Temptation he didn't have that problem.

And, you know what, maybe these particular Gargoyles are a bit better than you and I. I chose to write about heroes. Not average joes.

Response recorded on April 05, 2000

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Ambrosia writes...

Greg, as always, you are so delightful. I enjoyed reading your rambling about Awakening part 3 and all the little behind-the-scenes stuff you told us about. Ambrosia chuckles. Poor Brooklyn. I did wonder why he was always the one falling in and out of love. Curse you, Maggie.
No, I liked that we saw Demona ahead of time. I remember freaking out when I saw her alive, and yet it took nothing away from the scene where she is reunited with Goliath. And I think everyone knew that Xanatos was a "bad guy" although Demona was something of a shocker for me. I think it was a great dramatic moment.
I loved Goliath's line, "and please, don't fall off the building this time!" Unfortunately- and understand that it's hard for me to give criticism even though I know you invite it- but I liked Goliath much better in these 5 eps than anywhere else. He was thoughtful, calm and level-headed and I liked that in him. Later, though, he seemed to roar much more often and break things down before he thought about it carefully. I hafta say, Greg, this upset me a little. Consider Enter MacBeth. Goliath rampages throughout the whole ep tearing down MacBeth's home. Yeah, MacBeth kept hiding from him and he was frustrated, but the Goliath from Awakening might have found a better way to handle it. Which brings me to something else. Why was MacBeth running and not facing him in an honorable fight? MacBeth is reversed from my opinion of Goliath. I didn't like him at first (he seemed to be too much the stereotype of a villain) but as his depth grew, I liked him more.
Something that always bugged me about the scene when Hudson is named: He asks if the sky needs a name... the sky's name is sky! I'm going to have to be a human too and agree with Elisa: things do need names. I did love the scene with Brooklyn, Lexington and Tom. It warmed my heart to hear Lexington casually answer "We look different" to Tom's question, "How do you tell each other apart?" So cute! And even better to the question, "But what do you call each other?" was Brooklyn's, "friend."
I never gave a thought to part three not having any action. I loved it and, you're right: the characters themselves held my attention. Correction: my rapt attention.

Greg responds...

Erin (age 5 & 1/2) responds:

My favorite character is Tom. I liked the part when he said how do you tell each other apart. And I liked how he looked when he was little. And when he was a little boy.

Greg (age 36 & 1/2) responds:

Good point about Goliath. I always felt we had plenty of justification when Goliath was behaving badly. It came out of his lack of understanding of the twentieth century, his warrior up-bringing and occasional flares of temper and extreme frustration. The same thing happened in Act One of Awakening, Part Two. In "Enter Macbeth", Macbeth was intentionally goading him, which helped explain his increasing frustration and the resulting destruction. I don't think there was a better answer for Goliath on Macbeth's home turf. And once, Macbeth revealed his flawed plan to catch Demona, Goliath laughs, and the tables turn. And again, we have a Goliath who is responding with more thought -- and more success.

Macbeth's change takes place over time intentionally. He starts out bitter and borderline suicidal. And over the course of his multiple appearances, finds new reasons to carry on. Plus, of course, it never hurts to learn a characters background (as in "City of Stone") in order to generate more sympathy for him.

As for the name thing, I think YOU are the one splitting hairs. The sky is called the sky, the way Hudson is called a gargoyle. But to Hudson, you don't need to give the sky an additional name like, say, Fred. Hudson is used to being referred by his relationship to whomever he's talking to. Brother, Father, mentor, Leader, Friend, Old Friend, etc. The need to pinpoint him with an identity that isn't relative is human, not gargoyle. But even with all that, I'm human too, and I also feel the need to name -- it's addictive. I just like to point out the conceptual difference between traditional gargoyle customs and human changes.

Response recorded on April 01, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

Oh, one thing that I forgot to mention in my reply to your "Awakening Part Two" ramble, but I was intrigued by your mention of how you were deliberately going for "Gargoyles" being different from "Batman", and that list of differences that you drew up. I can see a few of those differences, of course (some you mentioned in that Gargoyles Bible for Season One, but a few I can come up with myself - I've seen some episodes of "Batman:TAS" myself, although I never quite got into it as much as I got into "Gargoyles").

1. (One of your points). Batman is a crime-fighter because his parents were killed by criminals in front of him when he was a boy, and so he HAS to fight crime as a means of coping with his loss. Goliath was himself grieved by the slaughter of his clan, but that's not why he fights crime in New York; it's because it's a natural evolution for the 1990's of his "Gargoyles protect" role.

2. (Also from your Gargoyles Bible, or inspired by it). Gotham City is a gloom-ridden, cheerless city, overrun with crime and with bizarre freakish criminals such as the Joker, Two-Face, and Scarecrow. The gargoyles' New York is a more balanced city, where there is something of a crime problem, but coming from more "mundane" criminals like Tony Dracon (whose only bizarre trait is that white streak in his hair), and where there's wonders and beauty to be found rather than just misery and despair. (Although Jackal, Hyena, and Wolf all strike me, particularly after "Upgrade", as definitely Arkham Asylum material).

3. Batman's entire life is focused on crime-fighting, with Bruce Wayne as just a necessary mask that he wears, something of a facade. (I recall reading once in a book about the making of "Batman:TAS" that in the production team's view of him, his temptation isn't to give up being Batman and lead a normal life as Bruce Wayne; it's to discard his Bruce Wayne identity and become Batman full-time). The gargoyles have been able to find lives outside of just patrolling the city and protecting it: Goliath reads (particularly the classics such as Shakespeare and Dostoyevsky), the trio go to music concerts and movies, Lexington also pursues his interests in technological matters, Broadway and Hudson learn how to read, the trio all court Angela when she joins them, etc. Quite different from Batman's grim, driven single-mindedness.

Well, there are probably some more, but these are the ones that I could immediately think of. Are there any, in your opinion, that I've missed?

Greg responds...

I once wrote an entire memo for Buena Vista listing tons of differences. (I'm sure I've got it around here somewhere.) But you got the main ones.

But I'd nuance your first one a bit with one important point. The Waynes were murdered before Bruce's eyes, when he was a CHILD.

Goliath's clan was massacred out of his sight when he was an adult. And some of the clan was saved. I'm not trying to quantitatively weigh one tragedy against the other, but once Goliath survived his "suicide attempt" and was reunited with the other gargs, you can see how, as an adult, he could find it much easier to cope.

Batman's scarred for life. Goliath has a horrible tragedy in his background. He'll never forget it, but he has moved on. Bruce can never move on. Never.

And fundamentally, there was one other major structural difference. Batman wound up with a large extended cast of characters. But that series was fundamentally about a single hero.

Gargoyles was always written as an ensemble piece, a la HILL STREET BLUES. Goliath was our Furillo. He was never our Batman.

Response recorded on March 31, 2000

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Vashkoda writes...

Hi Greg! You may have already answered this in some shape or form, but in case this hasn't been asked: We know that Goliath started having feelings for Elisa possibly as early as "Awakenings", and that he first began to realize how beautiful she was in "The Mirror". But when (if ever) did Demona begin to suspect that Goliath and Elisa loved each other? Or did she never consider the possiblility because the idea of a gargoyle loving a human was ludicrous?

Greg responds...

I think that subconsciously Demona suspected it as early as Awakening V. That's one of the reasons she hates Elisa so much.

Response recorded on March 31, 2000


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