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How many gargoyles lived in the Wyvern Clan? Including Demona's Clan and Avalon Clan.
You can't include those two clans, because most weren't ever part of the Wyvern Clan, unless you count eggs. The Wyvern Clan had about 40 gargoyles in it after the Wyvern Split Clan split off.
I recently got Spirits of Ash and Foam and ALL of the Gargoyles DVDs. All of it was perfection. Thank you for being awesome.
While combing through the archives, I discovered the names of some of the gargoyles of the Avalon Clan: Archangel, Azrael, Michael, Raphael, and Uriel. What I could not find was a reference as to what name went with which gargoyle. So my question is this: are any of the names assigned to a particular garg from Avalon? Or were these just names chosen without a face?
PS. It hits me now that I'm proofreading that it sounds like I'm trying to get on your good side before I asked my question. Not my intent. But whatever.
But I'm glad you liked the stuff, especially Spirits.
I have a question about the Avalon Clan and their biological relationships to the Manhattan Clan. I am going to use the "placeholder names" for those Gargs that don't have given names in cannon.
Can we assume that Hudson does not have any biological children there because Hyppolyta, Broadway, and True are his only three offspring?
You've mentioned before that Angela is the only biological child of Goliath's, and she is no longer there, so none for him either.
Brooklyn had at least one brother, Brooksbro...was he and older or younger brother? If older, then there is a potential for him to have a biological sibling on Avelon...is that the case?
Does Lexington have a younger biological sibling on Avelon?
3. Brooksbro is older. (But Brooklyn had MANY brothers and sisters. Stop thinking like a human.)
4. No comment on whether or not Brooklyn has a younger biological sibling among the Avalon clan.
5. No comment.
6. No comment.
hey i was wondering how would you describe oberon's relationship with the avalon clan amicable respectfully or professionally distant
also does boudicca like oberon at all
1. All of the above.
2. Sure. He gives her treats.
Hi Greg, I would like to know something about the rookery of the Avalon Clan for Liberty Clan. At Avalon, by the year 2188, only about 8 years have passed and the gargoyles my bill be 45 years old. So that they are even younger than the other gargoyles lay their first egg? In general, it would already be the year 2308, before they are 50 and really should place their first egg.
I'm sorry. Maybe it's the typos, but I'm not following you.
Also, my timeline doesn't go as far as 2308.
You mentioned that Angela was raised christan, to an extent anyway by Katherine but was not necessarily bapitised.
I read a book about "monsters" in medieval art and apparently St Augustine claimed that even "monsters" were worthy of salvation but only if they were descended from man. Apparently Augustine's comments were very important to missionaries and their work. Could this have been a reason that Katherine didn't bapitise the Gargoyles as they weren't descended from man? Or was it a more literal, no priest on Avalon king of thing?
I'd have to do some research, I guess.
I just re-read The Moorchild by Eloise McGraw. It's a book I mentioned in a much earlier question to you, one about a changeling girl who is half human and half fae, and the weirdness and difficulty she has fitting in with either because she is different from both species. (It's even set in medieval Scotland.) It prompted me to ask you how different or similar, emotionally and psychologically, the Third Race are to humans, because the depiction in this book is of quite inhuman fae who really can't relate to humans. You have consistently answered that the Third Race are quite similar to humans, emotionally and psychologically -- that the main difference is that of great power without great responsibility, of never growing old or having to work, and of being able to look however they want on a whim. You've even said that a human could imagine what it is like to be such a being by imagining what life for one of us would be like with those benefits.
Reading The Moorchild again got me to wondering about what it is like growing up as a hybrid (in a family of non-hybrids), or as a non-hybrid changeling raised by another species, in the Gargoyles universe. The personality differences don't seem nearly as pronounced between humans and Third Race as they are between humans and fae in The Moorchild, so it seems like fewer problems should arise, although physically there seems to be quite a lot of difference between mortals and the Children even when they look human. Clearly a half-mortal child like Fox can grow up without ever figuring it out, or learning magic. But did she ever feel different from the mortal children around her? Did other humans notice anything different about her? Or was there nothing really out of the ordinary, no noticeable outward signs of her magical heritage?
And what about Morgan le Fay, who according to what you have revealed is a purely Third Race changeling. Was it strange for her to grow up among humans? I assume she looked human, but did she feel human, or did she feel different from those around her? Did she seem unusual to her human parents and siblings, or did they never really notice anything out of the ordinary, personality-wise or physically? Did she just seem like a regular human being to them?
As for Nimue, well, she can't have helped but notice she was different, not having the same nearly-effortless magical abilities and shapechanging that the Third Race have. That and not being made of pure magic, along with whatever that entails.
I imagine a slightly different dynamic for the Avalon Clan, since there was no human society around them and they actually outnumbered their foster parents 11-to-1, but I'm sure that was at least somewhat weird, especially for the humans.
I guess if the question is: "Did they feel different?" then the answer is a resounding "YES!". Because, I'm pretty sure I'm not a magical hybrid and I felt different. Doesn't everyone?
I have a question about the Avalon Clan. The male gargoyles are generally named after angels, with Gabriel and canon-in-training names like Michael and Raphael, and the female Angela also has an angel-themed name. But as far as I can figure out Gabriel is the only angel name in Christianity that's ever considered female, and Gabriel is already used for a male gargoyle.
So my question is, what sorts of names do most of the Avalon Clan females have? Is there a theme for the female names, like the angel theme for the males? If there is a theme for the female names, what is it? (I'm not asking for individual names because I know you don't want to share those outside of an actual comic.)
Thank you again for answering so many fan questions!
ALL the eggs (male and female) were named for angels, except for the Beasts, who were named for warriors.
I have a question about Avalon. In the past you have stated several times that it is always summer on Avalon, "unless Oberon decrees otherwise," and that Avalon is "a summer place -- by decree."
So I'm curious: what was the climate and weather like on Avalon during Mab's reign?
Thank you, as always, for answering so many questions.
So a few years back we had talked about the two other beasts on Avalon (besides Boudicca) and how they are male and female and mates. We seemed to come to the conclusion that if the math is correct they should have already mated and laid an egg as of 1996, though it has not hatched yet. I believe you agreed the math worked out correctly, but didn't commit to the idea that this had actually occurred and put it tentatively in the canon-in-training category (which is how it continues to be labeled on the GargWiki).
I just want to get some confirmation from you that this has not happened after all. Since Angela commented in "Phoenix" that she had never seen a gargoyle egg before, I suppose the two beasts on Avalon have yet to parent one, right?
Also, as a side note, I find it interesting that during the time spent at Ishimura and ChacIxChel (and to a lesser extent London since Goliath and Co probably didn't visit Knight's Spur), Angela never got a peak of the Ishimuran or Mayan rookeries. Is this something private to a clan and not something they'd put on the tour or did it just not come up due to lack of time or whatnot?
The latter question is easier to answer. I don't think there was time for Angela to see a rookery. And it didn't occur to her to ask for a special tour.
The former question... I guess she hasn't seen one.
I have a quick question about one of the gargoyle models in The Gathering. Since you have revealed some interesting tidbits about the City of Stone and comics models it seems like the time to ask this:
There is a female gargoyle model who appears in the throne room scene in The Gathering, seen on the left in this scene next to a gorgon-like Child of Oberon: http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Image:The_Gathering2.jpg
There are some gargoyles in the scene serving as Honor Guard, but this female is not, and from the way she seems to be chatting with the Child of Oberon, and since the Third Race can look however they want, I have never been confident I know what she is.
Was she intended to be a gargoyle, or a Child of Oberon who is in a gargoyle shape?
I'd probably need to watch the episode again for context to tell you for certain, but based on that picture, she appears to just be a gargoyle, presumably one of Princess Katharine's Eggs.
On the garg wiki page for the Avalon Clan you have pics of fourteen different gargoyles? I love their designs particularly the aquatic looking blue male. Any chance you could assign them names? I know you have named at least five of them already you just haven't stated which gargoyles the names belong to?
They all have names, including those not yet pictured. But I'd rather reveal them in the context of a story than just spew them out here.
Hello Greg, long time fan of gargoyles, and most of my questions about the Gargoyles universe have been answered by browsing the archives but these questions.
I see from the archives that Angela and Broadway will raise their children in the traditional gargoyles fashion, and I am assuming that Brooklyn and Katana will try to do the same. But this has led me to some interesting questions about the relationships between generations of gargoyles in the same clan.
I have seen that from the first episode that gargoyles from the same rookery generation call one another rookery brother or rookery sister, or if there are close bonds just brother and sister. So my first question is do gargoyles have the same endearing names for an older or younger generation with in the clan, for example rookery mother, rookery father, rookery son, rookery daughter, or some other term like those? Yes I do know that Goliath's generation calls Hudson My Mentor, I am assuming that is so only because he was the leader and teacher of the clan before Goliath.
Another is I have noticed that Hudson has a stronger relationship with Goliath then any other of Goliath's rookery siblings, or at least just the ones we have met so far. I am assuming this is do to, that Hudson saw Goliath's potential as a successor and paid special attention to him to prepare him for the role. I have also noticed that gargoyles in one generation develop strong ties with a few siblings like Coldstone's and Goliath's relationship. My next question is do stronger relationships develop between certain hatchlings and certain members of the parenting generation or members of another older generation of gargoyles?
But in Mark of the Panther Goliath, who is having trouble dealing and even understanding Angela's unusual need for parents and her attachment to him after she finds that she is his biological daughter, says to Elisa's mother Diane "gargoyle hatchlings belong to the whole clan, I cannot hold one hatchling over the others." So are these kinds of relationships, I have asked about in the previous paragraph, taboo, shunned, frowned upon, or generally accepted as a part of the growing up process of young gargoyles, or are they just Goliath's personal words do to the fact that he is the clan leader?
Thanks for even putting up a general questions website, not many writers do that or post the site on there publications. I apologize for my long winded questions but it just the way I write. Just to let you know Gargoyles has been a huge influence in my own stories and don't worry I have absolutely no fan fictions of Gargoyles and I have never understood why people have to do them, they don't make sense to me any ways.
I can't wait for Brooklyn's little trip, especially the clan's reactions when he gets back five minutes later, they will be priceless. I might have to scan the images in and use them as a desktop. I just can't see Time Dancer done in six issues like I heard the spin offs will be done in, too much happening from what I have found on Ask Greg. Well I guess that is why it is third in line and thanks again.
Some gargoyles will develop stronger relationships with some. With that many parents, siblings, children, etc. running around, it's natural. But neither "shunned, frowned upon, or generally accepted" fits the bill to my mind. Amd citing Hudson/Goliath hardly proves anything. Hudson's pre-massacre relationship with anyone else in Goliath's generation has not been explored. Nor has Goliath's relationship with anyone else from Hudson's generation even been touched on.
In Panther, Goliath is NOT having trouble with Angela's "unusal need for parents". He's concerned about what her specific need to acknowledge their BIOLOGICAL relationship might mean... both in terms of his relationship to the rest of the Avalon Clan and especially HER relationship to her biological mother.
Not all of Brooklyn's TimeDancer adventures are designed to fit into one six episode mini. Just one six-part story. I could tell TimeDancer adventures for forty years. And I hope I get that chance.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
In Avalon, Angela, Gabriel, Ophelia, Boudicca and thirty-two other gargoyles and gargoyle beasts hatch out of their eggs.
Mace disappears with a fortune in jewels to become a full-time operative for the Illuminati. He writes a letter to Dominic Dracon, taunting him with false clues about the location of the jewels.
From around the globe, human heads of state and all twelve Gargoyle Clan Leaders come to Queen Florence Island for the hatching. The Space-Spawn attacks, abducting the gargoyle eggs and the human and gargoyle leaders, including U.N. Secretary General Alexander Fox Xanatos IV. And in Antarctica, Earth's Master Matrix Computer is stolen. The Space-Spawn invasion has begun.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
On Avalon, Goliath, Angela and Bronx awaken. Quite aware they won't be getting home any time soon, the travelers elect to spend "a few days" resting and getting to know the Avalon Clan. And in Nigeria, Tea is marked by a were-panther on the day she departs for the city of Abuja.
Greg, I just have a quick question about Demona's attitude towards Angela. Specifically, what makes *Demona* care so much that Angela is her biological daughter? I get why Angela thinks it's a big deal, but Goliath had to "learn" to think in that way, and his attitude is more traditional among the clan. Presumably, Demona should have the same type of attitude. What then makes Demona value Angela as her blood daughter as well as rookery daughter almost immediately in a way that seemed to take Goliath forever?
Demona was ALWAYS a bit atypical of gargoyles, even back in the tenth century. Plus she's spent centuries inundated by humanity's biological offspring imperative.
But really, all that's beside the point. As with Goliath, she might regard all the Avalon Clan as her children. But Angela is the only one she KNOWS about.
Here's more scattered, random reactions to the comics, in lieu of actual reviews. So because I already posted a lot about it in the comment room, and I'm lazy, I'm skipping a review of 3-5 for now and going on to review the latest issues that I bought. Starting with #6, others coming later. How many times can I post in a row without being rude?
SPOILERS (if you haven't got #6 yet)
The art in this issue mostly looks really good, once I got used to the pencils, but Lexington and Brooklyn and some of the early frames of Angela looked wrong.
I noticed that the pictures of Gabriel and Iago were copied directly from specific shots in the animated series. That's interesting, they were immediately recognizable and I thought it was cool, it indicates that the artists are getting a hold of the episodes and paying attention to the art in them. I do wonder if they are supplied with the character model sheets, though.
I'm surprised that you changed the Avalon situation so that the magic does not translate. It is definitely cool to see the language issue addressed, but I thought that the magic translateion was more probable than that every single person they met on the other Tour stops spoke English, and well. Now I wonder how Angela, Tom, and King Arthur are able to communicate with English-speakers.
Lots of new mysteries. How do the Illuminati know about that World Tour stop? And what "seeds" were "sown" at that time? No doubt Xanatos is up to something...
Landing in a giant cooking/laundry pot is definitely a new way to travel.
Shari feeding Thailog grapes while he's dressed like a Roman emperor is... intereting. She should be careful about taunting him, though.
I'm a bit disappointed that we didn't see real yetis, but since All Things Are True, they are probably out there somewhere.
I enjoyed all the issues I've read so far and although this wasn't quite as fun as some of the others, it was still good.
SPOILERS (if you haven't got #6 yet)
I'm not sure I DID change the rules here. They were sent to speak to Coldstone, not Master Dawa or Sangpo.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
King Arthur leaves Avalon on his own to explore the world. The Weird Sisters are forced to release Macbeth and Demona from their thrall. Goliath pushes his unconscious foes off of Avalon. They land in Paris, where Demona awakens first, sees Macbeth unconscious and flees. Minutes later, a confused Macbeth regains consciousness. Realizing where he is, he retreats to his Chateau on Paris' famous Left Bank. (Neither retain any memories of events that have taken place between November 12th, 1995 and January 1st, 1996.) Meanwhile, Goliath takes possession of the Eye of Odin and the Phoenix Gate, then releases the Weird Sisters, who vanish. Goliath leaves Tom, Katharine and Gabriel in charge of Avalon and the Avalon Clan. Only Angela chooses to join Goliath, Elisa and Bronx aboard the skiff. They begin their "World Tour" while attempting to find their way home from Avalon. Avalon sends Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx to Wyvern Hill in Scotland. There the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain attempt to drive Goliath insane and steal his life force.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Macbeth and Demona attack the humans and gargoyles at Oberon's Palace, while the Magus faces off against the Weird Sisters at the Hollow Hill, and Goliath and Angela seek out the Archmage at the Grotto. At first things look grim, but Princess Katharine defeats Demona with help from Ophelia, the Guardian, Elisa Maza, Gabriel, Bronx and Boudicca. King Arthur Pendragon also defeats Macbeth, and the Magus captures the Weird Sisters, though it fatally weakens him. Goliath battles the Archmage, who uses the Phoenix Gate to bounce them around through Time and Space. But the Archmage cannot shake Goliath, and returns to the present, where Goliath succeeds in removing the Eye of Odin from his brow. Without the Eye, the energy from the Grimorum Arcanorum burns the Archmage to death from the inside out. The battle is over.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Westminster Abbey, built by Edward the Confessor, is consecrated.
David Xanatos, who is scheduled to be released from jail in one week, is contacted by Macbeth, who offers to rid the castle of gargoyles.
Goliath and Tom the Guardian meet at Belvedere Castle in Central Park. Together with Elisa Maza and Bronx, they depart for Avalon, where they are introduced to the grown hatchlings of the Wyvern Clan, including Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca, and reunited with the Magus and Princess Katharine. Meanwhile, a recently transformed Archmage travels back in time...
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Just before dawn, the gargoyles are attacked by "Macbeth". After sunrise, David Xanatos kidnaps Hudson's sleeping body and replaces it with a stone statue. At sundown, the other gargoyles awaken and believe that Macbeth has used sorcery to keep Hudson asleep. Goliath & Lexington search for a cure, while Brooklyn & Broadway protect the statue from "Macbeth". Meanwhile, Xanatos reveals that in his bid for immortality, he plans to use Hudson to test the Cauldron of Life. And on Avalon, the Archmages and their allies launch their attack on the Avalon Clan.
Questions concerning Avalon Parts 1 - 3:
1) Will we see the adventures of Tom in any of the Gargoyles Spinoffs or main comic?
2) Will there be any repercussions for waking up King Arthur "early" and will we see those repercussions in the comics? If so, which comic?
3) Who's face is represented on the front of the Avalon boats?
4) Who's face is represented at the watery gateway to Avalon, where Magus turned the Weird Sisters into owls?
5) Do all 36 Avalon Gargoyles survive the Archmage's assault?
6) Any chance the magic in the sleeping hill will one day revive Magus or is he dead and gone forever?
1. Yes, eventually.
2. Yes. Pendragon, among others.
3. Not revealing that at this time.
6. Who am I to kill hope? Hope lives eternal. The Magus, on the other hand, is dead.
Greetings, I was watching Vol 2 these last couple days, and an amusing question came to mind.
When Angela join Goliath, he is affectively taking care of her as a "single" parent. Likewise, the Avalon Clan were on the island under Kathrine's foster care. Couldn't it be argued that Demona and Goliath owe some serious back pay for child care?
Of course this is a light humor question, but I'm still curious as to your thoughts on the matter.
I think Goliath expressed his gratitude to Katharine, Tom and the Magus. I don't think anyone's expecing monetary renumeration.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The two Archmages reunite outside Avalon with the Weird Sisters, who have brought Demona, Macbeth, the Eye of Odin, the Phoenix Gate and The Grimorum Arcanorum. The three talismans are given to the "younger" of the two Archmages, and he is transformed into a double of his future self. They enter Avalon and prepare to attack its inhabitants.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Elisa, now out of danger, regains consciousness just before dawn. Broadway apologizes to her. Dracon wakes up with a permanent grey streak in his hair.
The Guardian departs Avalon to see if it is safe for the Avalon Clan to leave the island. Avalon sends him to Wyvern Hill, where he sees that Castle Wyvern is now gone.
If there r 36 eggs in the avalon clan then how r there 80-100 in the wyvern clan wouldnt that mean that almost every female has to lay an egg. even the ones that have already had 3 eggs? (sorry if i missed something)
Me too. I've answered this before. Check the archives or the comment room.
My question did Katherine ever find out that Magus loved her? And I remember him saying that Katherine and Tom raised the hatchlings like a family. Well didn't he have a place with them, too? And also do you think things might have been different if Magus ever told Katherine his feelings to her?
I'll leave it to everyone to decide for themselves what Katherine knew and/or when.
Yes, he was like another father to Angela and the rest.
As I've said many times, I'm not too interested in hypotheticals.
How come Angela was the only Avalon Garg to want to leave Avalon, don't any of the otheres have that kind of Wanderlust?
Guess not. Maybe she takes after her mum.
Would their have been any hatchling for the Avalon Clan by 2198? I did the math and if the eggs stayed on their island their would eight or so unhatched rookeries and all of the current Avalon gargs would still be in their prime.
I've done the math too. Eggs from Avalon were brought to Queen Florence Island.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Oberon defeats Angela, Gabriel and Goliath and returns them to his Palace. But Tom and Katharine use the iron bell to bring Oberon to his knees. An agreement is reached that will allow Tom, Katharine and the Avalon Clan of Gargoyles to remain on the island as Oberon's Honor Guard. Oberon promises to never use his magicks directly against any member of Goliath's clan. Titania and Oberon renew their vows of marriage, and Oberon initiates the Gathering of the Third Race.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath, Angela and Gabriel attempt to confront Oberon, but he is too powerful for them, and they are forced to flee. Meanwhile - working off clues provided by Titania - Tom, Elisa, Katharine and Ophelia begin forging an iron bell to use against Oberon.
What does Demona think of the way Katherine, Tom, and the Magus raised her clan's children?
Wow... Makhasu, I'm impressed by how fast you were able to type at 4 in the morning. This is a lot of questions, particularly considering that I specifically asked people NOT to flood the submission queue at least until I had caught up.
Anyway, again, I'm not inclined to spell this stuff out for you too much. I think the episodes should stand on their own without too much annotation. Take a look at "The Reckoning" again, and I think you'll find enough clues to the answer to this question.
what's the name of the gargbeast from the avalon clan? think i confused her name with a another character and i'm wanting to be sure. can you tell me, please?-thanks!
Boudicca. I should point out that you waited nearly a year for this answer, and if you had gone to the Station 8 comment room you could have learned the answer in a matter of minutes.
One thing I've always wondered is how long Goliath & Co. were on the World Tour; as I near as I can tell, Guardian first contacted Elisa in early to mid December 1995 and the Avalon Quartet arrived back in Manhattan on July 9th, 1996 (Alex's birth date). So,
1. When in 1995 did Guardian arrive in Manhattan, get arrested, meet Elisa and find Goliath?
2a. Was it his first time in New York? 2b. Was it his first time in the U.S.A.?
3. How long did the main events(or 1995 events) of the Avalon series actually take?...It seems like it all happened in one Avalon night (which would be like a week and a half in the real world, right?) from the time Katharine, Guardian and Magus were placing out dinner at sunset to the time Goliath, Elisa, Bronx and Angela left.
4. On what date did Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx arrive in Wyvern (or the main events of "Shadows of the past" occur)?
1. The Guardian arrives in New York on December 27th, 1995, but it is after midnight on the 28th before Tom and Goliath meet at Belvedere.
2ab. I'm not answering this at this time.
3. The Archmage's first attack on the Avalon Clan is on December 22nd, 1995. Goliath, Elisa, Bronx and Angela leave Avalon for the first time on January 1st, 1996.
4. The quartet arrive in Wyvern on January 1st, 1996. The events of "Shadows.." take place across the night of the 1st and 2nd of January, 1996.
Hope that helps.
ok, i really had to research the archives to figure all this out, but that (and the long wait) will be worth it to satisfy my curiosity.
ok, heres some things you've said in the archives (correct any of these if i've gotten them wrong or they have changed):
-1 year in Avalon is 24 years in the real world, so 10 years on Avalon is 240 years in the real world.
-Gargoyle Beasts are mature by age 2 and can mate and lay an egg 10 years after they were hatched.
-besides Boudicca, there is another female and a male beast among the Avalon Clan and they are mates.
-the Avalon Clan hatched in 1078.
1. so, ten years after the Avalon Clan hatched (this would be the year 1318 in the real world) the gargoyle beast pair would have been old enough and in sync with the natural gargoyle cycle to mate and lay an egg, is that correct?
2. if an egg was laid in Avalon in 1318, then ten years later on Avalon in the year 1558 the egg would be in sync with the natural cycle and again and would hatch, is that correct?
3. then ten years later on Avalon, which would be 1798 the gargoyle pair would be in sync again to mate and lay an egg, is that correct?
4 so, just to be clear, when Goliath, Elisa and Bronx arrive on Avalon, not only should there be Boudicca, and the other two beasts, but there should also be the first now mature pup of the beast pair and their second egg, waiting to hatch in 2038. is that correct?
i know the math is kinda crazy, but the way i figured all this out was by saying 10 years on Avalon is 240 years in the real world and just adding from there so:
1078 real world- eggs hatch
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
1318 real world- gargoyle beasts mate and lay egg
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
1558 real world- egg hatches
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
1798 real world- beasts mate again
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
2038 real world- second egg hatches
is all this right? its entirely possible, despite my checking, that i could've goofed up somewhere, so please correct me if i'm wrong on anything.
Ugh. God, you're really going to make me do the math, aren't you? Let's start by saying that I'm not confirming that any of this happened. I'm just striving to address your calculations.
1. The natural gargoyle cycle would dictate that an egg would not be layed until 1328. Eggs are layed on even decades. They hatch on odd decades.
2. An egg layed on Avalon in 1328 would hatch in 1578.
3. Moving forward, the next egg would be lain in in 1828.
4. That egg would be waiting to hatch in 2078. Nevertheless, by your calculations, when Goliath and Elisa first arrived on Avalon, there should indeed be a pup that hatched in 1578 and an egg that was laid in 1828.
Hi Greg. You said in the archives that as of the time you left the show (The Journey, i'm assuming) that Demona didn't know about Broadway and Angela's relationship, and the only other person who knew was Brooklyn.
1. How did Brook find out? Did Broadway and Angela tell him? Was the scene in "The Journey" how Brook find out?
2. When would the rest of the Clan find out about them? Would they try to keep it quiet for awhile or would they even care who knew?
3. Had Angela had any romantic connections with any of her rookery brothers on Avalon?
1. Yes, the scene in "The Journey".
2. I don't think it was a major secret. But honestly, I haven't given much thought to the order of how and when everyone learned about it.
3. No. Nothing even vaguely serious.
in the "Avalon", when Magus is talking to Elisa, there is a flashback of Tom and Katherine playing with the young gargoyles. i was curious if you knew how old the gargoyles were in that flashback. do you have in your timeline what year that was?
I do not have a fixed year for that brief flashback assigned in my timeline.
Almost every gargoyle clan we've meet in the show or that you've us about protects something. The Guatemalan clan protects the rain forest. The Loch Ness clan protects the Loch Ness Monster, the Manhattan, London and Ishimura clan naturally protects New York City, London and Ishimura respectively. And the Avalon clan protects Avalon while the Labyrinth clan presently protect the homeless of New York.
1. So what does the New Olympus clan protect? Mount Thanatos? The whole of New Olympus? Or have they abandoned their duty much like the London clan when they lost Griff(since you did say they were isolationists)?
2.What does the Pukhan and Xanadu clans protect?
3.What exactly do New Camelot and New Wyvern clans protect?
4.What abou the Queen Florence Island Clan(after they've been freed from their stasis)?
5.What about the Notre Dame Clan?
1. I think they have become too insular. It's something I would have made an issue of, given the chance.
2. Pukhan Clan is more interested in protecting their concept of justice. Xanadu Clan protects the endangered Gargoyle Beast species.
3. New Wyvern is very traditionalist. So they protect Wyvern and it's surroundings. By contrast, New Camelot is very internationalist.
4 & 5. Haven't gotten that far in my thinking yet, but at the least they'll protect the Island and Paris, respectively.
Since you have updated your timeline since you last answered the question about Angela and Ophelia possibly being "in heat" in 2008 (02-02-00), I thought I would ask that question again since that part of the timeline might have changed.
1)When is the earliest time that Angela and Ophelia could have laid an egg?
2)Will Angela, Ophelia, or both of them be capable of laying an egg in 2008?
The earliest for either is 2008 and, yes, both are potentially capable of laying eggs in that year.
do you have any story ideas where Gabriel and/or Ophelia are the focus?
have the other two garg beast of the Avalon Clan besides Boidikka had a hatchling already as of "Avalon"?
I don't know. I'd have to work the numbers.
1.)Did Magus, Tom, and the Princess know Angela was Goliath and Demona's daughter?
2.)Did they know Gabriel was Desdemona's and Othello's son?
3.) Did we ever meet Ophelia's parents? Besides the Britain Clan and Zafiro, she is one of the most interesting looking.
1. Given her looks and coloring, it's not a great leap.
3. I haven't given it any thought.
Mr. Weisman, just a brief question, was the name Boudicca taken from the Queen of Iceni?
What happened to Boudicca after Oberon went all jolly blue giant in 'The Gathering: Part One'? I mean, when he phased out of human form, he just left her there! Wouldn't someone notice a big, olive drab gargoyle lounging about the street?
I assume he sent her back to Avalon. Do you have any reason to assume he didn't?
1. by "Ill met by Moonlight" had Gabriel and Ophelia mated already?
2. had they already made a monogamous commitment to each other?
3. how many biological children will they have?
4. how many of the founding Avalon Clan females (the fifteen Angela said existed) will bear eggs?
1. I think so.
2. I think so.
3. Odds are three, assuming one or the other doesn't die prematurely.
4. Odds are all of them, assuming one or another doesn't die prematurely.
How many gargoyle clans were there when the show was ended?
Do any of the other Avalon gargoyles join Angelia in the real world?
1. In 1996, the following clans were extant (although some were far from healthy in numbers):
2. Eventually, others would visit. But I don't immediately see anyone else taking up permanent residence outside Avalon.
received from 18.104.22.168 on Monday, September 3, 2001 11:32:32 PM
3.Why is there a gargoyle in Avalon named Azrael? I mean it's the name of the Muslim angel of death hardly Christian.
3. You try naming thirty-six kids in one sitting.
recorded on 10-17-01
But in christian mythology there are like hundreds of angels surely Catharine, Magus and Tom could have remembered thirty-six angels out of the hundred?
I'm tempted to follow a question based on a smart-ass response with another smart-ass response, but I'll demur.
I'm NOT an expert on angels. I named all the ones I could think of, and that included Azrael. There would be research done before I actually named them on air, but I'm not necessarily backing off the Azrael name. The Magus may have made that choice for reasons of his own.
And you tell me that there are hundreds of angels in "christian mythology". Hundreds that have been named? Really? Can you name 36 for me? I'd appreciate it. And please, do not count Saints and or other virtuous humans.
The grant of immunity to Oberon's magic is a great gift to Goliath and his clan (even if it *is* subject to Oberon's interpretation).
1) You've explained that Elisa still fell prey to Oberon's sleep spell because he didn't consider her part of the clan. a) Why is this? Did Oberon not recognize how close Goliath and Elisa were back on Avalon? Did he automatically dismiss the idea that a human could be adopted into a gargoyle "clan"? b) Just a comment here, but I think it would have been a nice touch if Elisa *had* been granted immunity from the sleep spell, kind of as a way to symbolize her relationship to the clan. c) At some future point, do you see Oberon extending this immunity to Elisa as well?
2a) Do you have any specific ideas for future moments when the clan will once again get to take advantage of their immunity from Oberon's magic? b) When you introduced Oberon's gift to Goliath in "Ill Met by Moonlight", were you already thinking ahead to "The Gathering", realizing that that the clan would need this immunity? Or was it simply something you figured you might make use of eventually in a future story?
1a. Largely, I don't think he's that observant. Gargoyle clans. He's thinking gargoyles. No doubt, Elisa was regarded as an ally, but I don't think it occured to him to actually consider her to be part of the clan.
b. Well, it's nice and symbolic, but I just think the spell has to come from Oberon's PoV, and it seems out of character to me for him to include her. This isn't something I missed. This is something I considered and made a conscious decision about.
c. I doubt it.
2a. Not specifically at this moment.
b. Yes and yes.
will Broadway ever meet Gabriel and the rest of Angela's rookery siblings? if so, what will Gabriel think of Broadway?
At some point, yes.
Broadway's a pretty personable guy, wouldn't you say?
I would think that Gabriel would like him.
Time to Ramble...
This third part of the tryptich, was designed to be a kick-ass battle. Lots of action, lots of excitement. All (or nearly all) the pipe had already been laid out. We had two of our toughest mortal villains (Demona and Macbeth) working with the mysterious and powerful Weird Sisters and the MEGA Archmage Plus, who possessed the power of Gate, Book and Eye. That seemed like some real competition for our good guys, who had wounded to protect.
It was time to go to war.
A few other soldiers:
Director: Dennis Woodyard
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
Writer: Lydia C. Marano
As the main titles were playing and Keith was narrating, my seven-year-old daughter Erin mentioned that Goliath and Darth Vader both do voices for phone companies.
Erin also figured out that Angela and Gabriel were being stalked by Demona, before she actually came on screen.
Goliath says it like a curse word when he realizes that A&G are being followed. That was how I wanted to use it. As I've mentioned before, the art staff eventually threatened a coup if I didn't drop it.
But if I ever get to do Gargoyles 2198, I'm bringing it back. That's a threat, not a promise.
Anyway, Goliath attempts to appeal to Demona and Macbeth's better natures. It starts to work, but it's too late. The Archmage has a good line: "They are my creatures now."
Then Bronx and Boudicca attack, saving our 'goyles. This was hinted at in Part Two. And clarified later when Angela comments on it. But it also was my way of serving notice that Bronx was no longer going to be the puppy-most-left-behind. The World Tour was his coming out party.
Anyway, the Archmage now changes his plan. Not because he doesn't want to take any chances, but really because his sensibilities have been offended. He has another good line: "If they are so eager to die..."
But it's really that balance I was trying to maintain between his newfound ultimate power and his original clichéd origins.
HUNTING HOLLOW HILLS
Elisa asks about the Sleeping King. The Magus says he's been sleeping in his Hollow Hill. More hints as to who the king was. (If the name Avalon wasn't hint enough.)
On the way, Elisa pumps Magus for information like he was in the interrogation room back home. She already guessed that he had a thing for Katharine. She wants the lowdown. It's really not her business. Call it a habit of her profession.
(There's an animation error on my tape, which I hope was corrected for later airings. When the Magus starts to narrate the flashback, both his and Elisa's mouth are moving, mouthing the same lines. Obviously, Elisa's animator misread the X-sheets and thought she was talking instead of the Magus.)
(Of course there's another semi-error which I've tried to explain away in the past. The lighting on the scene where Katharine and Tom play with the baby-gargs Angela, Gabe and Boudicca seems very daylight. I've always claimed that it was just a very bright moonlit night. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.)
This last flashback got my five year old son Benny talking. He asked "How did the gargoyles even get born?" And had to be reminded about the eggs from Part One (which we saw three weeks ago). "Oh, yeah," he said.
Then when we got to the Sleeping King, he compared that to a character that's on his radar: The sleeping MATA NUI from Bionicle.
The Magus uses magic, explaining that "magic is the lifeblood of Avalon." This seemed logical to me. That a practioner like the Magus could train himself to access that ambient magic -- but at a price.
My wife Beth was very impressed with Jeff Bennett's performance here. As a change of pace, Jeff was only playing one character -- as opposed to his usual fifty. But it was a truly heartbreaking performance, I think.
And I have to ask, given the Magus' first appearance in "Awakening, Part One", did you guys ever think that you could or would find that character this appealing, this sympathetic? I think that our ability to allow characters to grow and change was one of the hallmarks of our series. And I had the backbone of his change planned as early as "Awakening, Part Two": (1) his love for Katharine which is unequivocal and (2) his guilt over what he did to the gargoyles, which he never tries to dodge or make excuses for in any way.
The Leap of Faith. It does seem too Indiana Jones now. But obviously it must not have at the time. Either that or we were kidding ourselves. Still, I like Elisa here a lot.
The Platform lowers on cue and Elisa finally names the Sleeping King: "Arthur Pendragon, King of All Britain... You are needed." We wanted to keep it simple. That simple. I also wanted to begin establishing the name Pendragon. Everyone's heard of King Arthur. But you have to have had a bit of exposure to the legends to be familiar with the Pendragon name. I always thought it was cool. And I think that even then I had the notion of using it as the title for a spin-off.
Anyway, we get back to the Palace, and Elisa states a fact that I wonder if anyone had focused on before (regarding Demona and Macbeth): "You've never actually beaten either of them." Goliath agrees: "Simply foiled their plans or fought them to a stand still.
And then Arthur asks: "What's going on?" which I always thought was kind of funny. They're counting on him to help save the day. He doesn't even know the set up.
So while we get him up to speed, we cut to the Archmage who orders the Sisters to "Dispatch the Sleeping King." Erin smiles and says,, "What they don't know..." is that it's too late. But what I found interesting is that Erin actually did trail off. She knew that she didn't need to state what they didn't know. Cool.
DIVIDING THE TROOPS
True to Elisa's hopes (and my interpretation of the character of legend) Arthur in fact does immediately take charge.
He'll go with Elisa, Tom and Gabe to fight Demona & Macbeth.
Katharine, Bronx and Boudicca will guard the wounded 'eggs'. (Katharine has one of her bookend tough mom statements here: "They'll not harm my eggs again!")
Goliath and Angela will attack the Archmage.
And the Magus agrees to take on the Sisters.
Eventually -- after Art figures out that Demona feels Mac's pain and Demona establishes that she and Mac need to put distance between them to minimize the link -- things change a bit and Arthur faces Mac one-on-one, while Kathy, Bronx, Boudicca, Ophelia, Elisa, Tom and Gabe all team up to battle Demona -- who as always, may present the greatest threat of all, even when it's against her own interests.
All this seemed very appropriate to me. I like how the battle divides up. How the opponents match up. And you'll notice at the cliffhanger/commercial break that every one of our battles is going badly for the good guys. Macbeth seems to have the upper hand over Arthur. The Archmage has Goliath down. The Weird Sisters are clearly overpowering the Magus and even Demona is on the verge of wiping out all her opposition at the Palace.
KING ARTHUR PENDRAGON vs. MACBETH
We gave Arthur a mace, because I didn't want anyone to think that some random sword he was carrying might be Excalibur.
When Arthur says, "What manner of magic is this?" it made me wish we had just gone ahead and said "What sorcery is this?" like we usually did.
There's some fairly effective slo-mo animation in here. Slow motion in animation (when called for in scripts) usually makes me nervous. If not done well, it can just look like a poorly-timed, poorly-animated scene. But here it seems to work.
I like how the battle ends. Arthur takes the sword fragment, and for a second, it looks like he's going to skewer Mac. But instead he uses it to pin Mac to a tree. Setting him up for Arthur's punch into camera with his ringed fist. Disney S&P let us do that. ABC S&P didn't allow those kind of fist coming into camera shots on Goliath Chronicles. But I wasn't informed of the change in policy until after "The Journey" was animated.
PRINCESS KATHARINE, OPHELIA, BRONX, BOUDICCA, GABRIEL, THE GUARDIAN & ELISA MAZA vs. DEMONA
Ophelia gets another nice moment here, as even injured, she attempts to stop Demona.
Elisa again takes advantage of the fact that she knows that Demona's hatred for her is so extreme and irrational, that she'll literally drop her weapon for the chance to grapple with Elisa, the chance to tear her apart with her bare hands.
Of course, this is after Elisa demonstrates that she never carries enough ammo. After uselessly shooting at a beach and a hollow suit of armor, she's out of bullets by the time she gets a target of flesh and blood. Of course, we made Elisa a touch dopey in this department for S&P reasons. Elisa, being a NY cop, had to carry a gun. But short of doing an episode about gun violence like "Deadly Force" (which Toon Disney refuses to air these days), we couldn't actually let Elisa shoot anyone with her gun. So we found other uses and excuses.
But ultimately, it's Katharine who brings Demona down, looking quite intentionally like a medieval Ripley, saying the other bookend: "No one threatens my eggs."
THE MAGUS vs. PHOEBE, SELINE & LUNA: THE WEIRD SISTERS
Luna says to the Magus: "There is no future for you." That was a clue from the voice of fate. Anyone pick up on it?
I also like how all the Sisters say together: "You will suffer!" But of course, he's been suffering for decades. What he will soon be is free of all suffering...
I wanted to show here (among other things) that magic itself was neither good nor evil. Magic simply existed at the disposal of those with the power to wield it.
The Magus defeats the sisters and collapses onto Artie's platform. Erin asked quietly: "Did he die?" Benny looked for another way out: "He might have just lost his power."
GOLIATH & ANGELA vs. THE ARCHMAGE
Erin asked what the Archmage was planning for Goliath... and I had to answer something like "a painful death."
Goliath asks what I thought many of you might be asking: why doesn't the Magus just kill him. And David Warner answers as only he could: "Because I'm having too much fun."
We have all this Gate-Jumping. This was an afterthought. Because at one point I had thought of having our guys steal the gate back, I had forgotten to have the Archmage use the gate in the script. So at the board stage, I asked Dennis to put this in. We were very tight for time, but he obliged me. Ideally, I'd have liked to show them briefly in some other times, but I knew we just couldn't afford to design new layouts for two second shots. Even so, who knows where and when they went? Who knows how long they were gone? Sometimes their poses changed. But Goliath is like the Old Man of the Sea. He never lets go. And finally he takes the Eye away.
The Archmage is already in trouble, but how much he doesn't know for a few seconds. Then the power of the Grimorum destroys him from within. A nice creepy companion to him eating the book in Part Two.
And I love David's last line, the forlorn: "All my lovely magic..." Believe it or not, I had to fight a little to get that line in. Just a little. But still.
DEATH OF A HERO
The Magus' death stll moves me. His quiet desire for rest. Katharine's love for him. (Not romantic love, but love nonetheless.) K: "Oh, Magus, what have you done?"
The Magus still concerned that he owes a debt to Goliath and Goliath's forgiveness. The eyes closing and the star shooting overhead.
For S&P reasons, we decided not to make it absolute that he was dead. No one mentions death. Just rest. Sleep. And he is lying on the Sleeping King's platform by his own request.
And many fans, even adult fans, chose to believe he might still come back someday. Hey, more power to 'em, I guess.
But I felt/feel that would cheapen the moment. Cheapen the sacrifice. We sent our heroes into battle. And in battle, their are casualties. Some things are worth fighting for, but if we don't understand costs, then I want people to know that when something isn't worth fighting over, they shouldn't.
For various reasons, many of our voice actors in this episode recorded their lines separately. So we recorded each character saying goodbye to everyother character. Not knowing exactly what we would use. We, in my opinion, wound up using too much of these wild goodbyes. It's very awkward sounding to me now.
Gabe & Goliath establish why Gabe and his clan don't join Goliath in Manhattan and why Goliath doesn't bring his clan back to Avalon. Though both clans are born of the old Wyvern Clan, both have found new homes, which they will not abandon.
But Angela has a bit of Demona in her. The iconoclast, she wants more than normal clan life has to offer. She wants to see the world with Goliath. He proudly agrees. He wants one of his children with him. Gabriel and Angela say goodbye. He refers to her here as his rookery sister (not as his "Angel of the Night" or some other equivalent). This was done to make clear that they regarded each other as brother and sister, not mates. I basically wanted to leave her unattached for the Trio. Nevertheless, many fans still thought that they were a couple.
Art goes off on his own to be less conspicuous, and Goliath laughs a borderline Thailog laugh. He also plants pipe for Arthur's eventual stop in Manhattan.
Mac & Demona are freed from the spell, leaving them with no memory since they were first ensorcelled. There's an awkward bit of business here as the gargs who were guarding them move away, just so that Goliath can move in and push the skiff off. Flaw in the boarding that no one caught, I'm afraid.
The Sisters move off, having been forced off-camera to explain most everything.
Bronx & Boudicca part. Now that's a couple.
More pipe: Goliath swears that no one will ever use the eye or the Gate again. Famous last words.
Tom: "Elisa, I thought you understood. Avalon doesn't send you where you want to go! Avalon sends you where you need to be!"
Both Elisa and Erin said: What does that mean? at about the same time.
What did you think when you first heard that? We had officially launched the World Tour, but you didn't know it yet. What were you thinking?
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours...?