Todd Jensen writes...

In issue #3 of the "Gargoyles" comic book series, we first saw Illuminati members greeting each other with the words "Thirty-six." "Thirty-two." This got a lot of attention from the readers, of course, and led to many speculations over what the significance of those two numbers were. Then, in #5, we learned their significance: they were the ranks of the Illuminati members in question.

Have you ever regretted revealing the answer to that new mystery of the Gargoyles Universe so quickly, just two issues later? Or do you feel happy about the pacing with which you resolved that issue?

Shannon 'Shan' Muir writes...

Clarifications on Elisa and relationships...

When I talked about Elisa flirting with Jason, that was acknowledging her actions in Hunter's Moon more than the comic but those actions impact what we see in Issue 3, where you are correct that they have stayed friends despite what transpired in Hunter's Moon though that's not in the comic. I should have been clearer about that.

And I never said Elisa flirted with Morgan, just the fact that she went on the date with him so quickly instead of taking a step back to focus first before doing anything after the speech with Goliath at the castle. Her actions just seem jumpy and rushed.

You'll probably still disagree with me and that's OK. I just want to make sure that you read me correctly.

Shannon 'Shan' Muir writes...

Hi Greg,

Originally I promised I wasn't going to review 3 - 5 until I saw them as a group, and go figure when I finished this was RIGHT when the queue closed. So here it is, though with added time of reflection.

REVIEW OF GARGOYLES ISSUES 3 - 5
by Shannon Muir

As I've stated previously, I didn't want to comment on the comics until I could see the whole story in one piece, which to me feels like I'm reading a half hour episode adapted to three comics with one comic per act. I'm largely going to talk about the story as I think it unfair to review three different artists artwork indepth in one piece. However, broadly speaking I liked issue #5 the best artwise and issue #4 the least (mainly because I couldn't follow the fight scenes in that style which in turn impacted my ability to follow story, though the style itself was interesting).

Now, here's a breakdown of each story arc and my observations --

THE ILLUMINATI: It's nice to finally get a sense of the Illuminati structure as more than just this nebulous organization represented by just a couple people in the show. Castaway, Bluestone, Xanatos, and Thailog all at lowest run almost implies some sort of "race to the top". Both Quincy and Shari I find extremely interesting, and Thailog being a member was a turn I didn't expect. Also that Shari's symbol isn't the ring like all the men wear. (What jewelry does Thailog have I wonder, though I know you can't/won't answer). There's enough here I'm interested in what is going on in their infrastructure. Thailog's goals are, however, at this point a little bit predictable. What is more of interest is the consequences of the pursuit of said goals with Sevarius.

ELISA AND GOLIATH: I have to be honest, this was the arc that I liked the least. To me, the question of Elisa's family plans opened on the castle rampart is a "tentpole" question that should launch a much larger arc and not be thrown away in the equivalent of a half-hour episode. The fact Elisa flirted with Jason, and did take Morgan on the date, cannot be erased in one night no matter how life-threatening. Couples have conflicts but they also need to work through them, and issues of this magnitude take time. I hear rumors later issues will continue with this theme, but even what I've seen here seems just too fast. I know comics by nature need to be time compressed to some extent, but still.

I for one hope that though Elisa's re-recognized her feelings for Goliath in the heat of a pressure moment, the struggles don't end here. Those are some powerful words Elisa told Goliath back at the castle in Issue 3 about the life she wanted, and I truly feel some more examination of this is required instead of a simple daytime soap opera-esque "we'll find a way to work it out" and let it rest until it resolves itself. It has always been one of GARGOYLES' hallmarks to deal with tough issues head on and give them the treatment they deserve - whether it is single epsiodes with undertones of social issues like DEADLY FORCE or LIGHTHOUSE or the complicated psychcological examination of Demona and Macbeth of CITY OF STONE. That, to me, is what makes GARGOYLES... well, GARGOYLES.

As is, it feels like this was "rushed through" to take Elisa and Goliath to some sort of "next level" in their relationship in order to move along other plot elements. I strongly hope this isn't the case.

BROOKLYN, BROADWAY AND ANGELA: Poor Brooklyn just feels alientated by everyone. This was done in plausible contexts that made sense. I know what it is ultimately to lead to (in the most general of senses, as we've been told before), but the question is how long will things go until we get there? I hope they don't drag out but go at a natural pace. As to Broadway and Angela, I think they are handled very subtly in the background, their relationship is reconfirmed as a contrast longside Brooklyn's alienation.

LEXINGTON: Not too much to say here as Lexington is Lexington. However, what is key is his confrontation with his clone, it reveals a lot about his character as he confronts his "dark side" when the clone chooses Thailog over siding with Delilah.

THE CLONES, THE MUTATES, AND THE POWER OF FREE WILL: Maggie standing up and Delilah taking charge were both turns I applauded and worked well, Delilah's especially though I would have liked to have overseen her hearing the conversation where Goliath mentions her. Though, where did Thailog learn about Norma Rae? It took a minute to remember where she overheard Goliath's comment. This was my second favorite arc to Hudson and Robbins (see below). However, we still don't know what happened to Maggie or to Claw. We see Shari at the end of Issue 5 talking to Thailog, and supposedly she took Claw with her when she left the Labrinyth in Issue 4. Where is he? Did I miss something? (I hope so.)

HUDSON AND ROBBINS: The smallest subplot in the arc but it accomplishes volumes in just a few pages. It got a major revelation out of the way - that Robbins has suspected Hudson's identity for some time - but it didn't feel rushed or forced. It felt like every step was completely appropriate and the handshake at the end before Hudson left was the perfect cap. A total contrast to the Elisa and Goliath arc. Even Gilly and Bronx resting together was a nice touch.

BRENDAN AND MARGOT: Margot was predictable but funny, yet the interesting part here is getting a better sense of Brendan. Timing makes it clear he got Dr. Sato to help Goliath, but did he realize Goliath was what he was or does he think Goliath was just a man in a really good costume? Again, you can't answer that one but I'm letting you know the answer interests me.

DEMONA: I know she's a setup for later, but she seems out of place in these three issues if taken together as one story. Not much to say as there's not much of her around. I am left wondering if that page might have been able to be done some other way or at some other point to have better been utilized for this story.

CAMEOS AT THE PARTY: Fun if you remember the show enough. I recognized some and had to research others. I flat out did not recognize the Judge and guessed who he was simply because I had to think of what episode used a Judge. Seems too off model to me, even compensating for the costume.

OVERALL: Would I keep reading at this point? There's enough to keep me interested, but how Elisa and Goliath play out may be a real sticking point. We'll see.

ADDENDUM REGARDING ISSUE #6:I don't have Issue 6 yet (got stuck too late at work to go out the day it came out), and to be honest after hearing about the technical art gaffe I may just hold out for the trade in hope it gets corrected there and I can follow the story properly, especially since it is a stand-alone. I haven't decided. If I do get it and the queue doesn't close, I'll consider a review.

Ntripy writes...

I re-read issue 3 and 4 again before starting 5. I had thought 3 and 4 were great before but just knowing that I had the end of the story to look forward to made them that much better.

My first thought when I looked inside issue 5 was, "Wow, bright!". Compared to the dark tones of previous issues it took me a second to get used to, but after a couple pages I noticed how much easier it was to see whats going on and the similarities to the cartoon were superb. I look forward to Bad Guys even more.

I didn't understand why Delilah was in the castle when Owen came to get her, but later when Delilah tells Goliath, "Delilah can mean nothing to me" "Isn't that what you said, Goliath?" I thought that was because Owen had taken Delilah to a room with a monitor or computer and he showed her surveillance footage of Goliath and Elisa talking.

But most others who mention it seem to think Delilah was spying on Goliath and Elisa while they were talking, so I don't know any more.

On the radio play you say something like, Owen gets Delilah from the lab. I didn't realize the room was a lab, but looking again there are test tubes on the table so since it is a lab then I wouldn't think thats the best place to show someone video footage.

But you didn't say, Owen *finds* Delilah in the lab, so it would seem Owen knew she was in there, and its plausible to think he knows she is there because he put her there.

So why was Delilah in the lab?

Vashkoda writes...

It was nice seeing you at ComicCon, Greg! So as you know, I got issues #4&5 there, and I was happily pleased by the story. Even though I had read spoilers, it was still exciting to be "seeing" a new episode. You certainly didn't hold back on the surprises, with Brentwood's defection, Brendan's sense, Thailog and Sevarius's new scheme, and the rankings of the Illuminati. I actually got a kick out of seeing the audience's reactions to these revelations on YouTube, and I totally would have joined them in a long round of applause for such a great episode.

The only thing that saddens me about the comic is that you will be less forthcoming with revelations on Ask Greg, and that we now have to wait 2 months at a time for new material on the main series (I expect Bad Guys will have its own revelations, but mostly about its own cast). I suppose you will still be posting interesting timeline entries until you catch up to the full year, but those are often too obscure to make much sense out of ("Lexington takes a chance and loses"). I know that having the published comic is a better deal than having revelations on this forum that are nothing but unrealized possibilities, or "canon-in-training", but I will miss the excitement I used to have when visiting here, looking for new tidbits of information that once would have had the CR buzzing for weeks. Anyways, don't mind my rambling--I'm just being greedy and somewhat nostalgic. I'm looking forward to the upcoming Tibetan flashback, and the Bad Guys premiere! Hopefully the comics will stay on schedule.

Todd Jensen writes...

This isn't a question, but a comment. One thing that I liked in the two most recent issues of the "Gargoyles" comic book, and in "Eye of the Beholder", was that, when Goliath attends the Halloween parties in those stories, while the other gargoyles present, and Elisa, are wearing costumes at the events, he wasn't (or, rather, he was letting his "gargoyleness" be his costume). I thought that that was particularly appropriate, since while the younger gargoyles wearing costumes worked for me and fitted their characterizations, I think that it would have jarred to have Goliath "dress up" at those events. He has a certain natural dignity and majesty about himself that would have (in my opinion) been compromised had he worn a costume as well. Thanks (to both you and the artists) for leaving him as he was at those events.

newbey writes...

Switching to Karine Charlebois's pencil art was quite a change from Nir Paniry's, which I started to get use to. First off about the comic, was that Finnella & Mary in the future (they're suppose to have a part in Timedancer, so ... curious). Seeing Dr. Sato from Deadly Force was refreshing. The art for the first four pages was a little too disney (Thailog was just too cuddly). Out of 666 Illuminators, is there one ranked zero, or a one ONE? Life just gets worse for Brendan, maybe Margot is still mad about the terrorist thing in City of Stone (sorry, didn't mean any suggestions by that). The Gar-costumes were amazing; the boots, the open backs, elbow slots! Angela is certainly relatable to the teen girls, AND SHE IS REALLY EXCITED, IN THIS ISSUE! I've re-read the issue to see if Thailog actually used all 8-blades accordingly. It was nice to see the revelation of Robbins, kinda similar to Season3 episode Dwindling light. Who was L.B.J.? Is Xanatos going to be a gopher for the Illuminati(rumour)? Overall, the clone battle would've been funny as an episode, with all the voice actors talking (Keith & Salli shuving then luving, same with Bill & Brigitte). Delilah is acting like both Demona and Elisa in-sync. Did Elisa and Lex just sit there while Thailog cut a chunck out of them? Hearing Goliath's last grunt had me scared, but the 'I love you...' scene was perfect. Seeing Malibu with Delilah was just another blow to Brooklyn, cause that was a sense of what Brooklyn is suppose to become. Thailog being with the Illuminati was no surprise to me, BUT SHARI!? Why did I just learn her name now!? Hope the comic pulls through issue #11.
P.S. in Gargoyles #3, Angela's hair was brown, just to let you know.

The Imperfect writes...

I've just finished reading my copy of Issue #5, and I simply had to come send a comment. I wanted to say first off that I thought Karine and Stephanie did a fantastic job with the artwork! The artwork felt very true to the show, and more than any other issue so far, I felt like I wasn't just reading a story, I was actually watching it move between the still frames of the comic. Large and small details alike all just seemed to fall perfectly into place. The expressions were great, and the action shots picked the perfect moments and angles to capture. Nothing seemed off. This has been my favorite art issue so far. Excellent work, ladies! I hope to see more of it in the future. (Even if this doesn't get onto the site or into Etched in Stone, would someone please pass on my praise to these two? I'd love to let them know how well they did!)

Also, Greg, thanks so much for new Gargoyle stories! It's great to see all our favorite characters (by which I mean to say, it's great to see every single character that shows up at all). I can't wait to see what new twist Thailog and Sevarius are going to be brewing up to this time, or what the Illuminati are planning for their thirty-sixes. It was also really great to see Goliath and Elisa have their moment this issue, and Brooklyn's sardonic comic relief right after was priceless. It's just one of many reasons why we love him.

Looking forward to issues 6 and beyond. A round of additional thanks to everyone else involved.

Brigadoon Traveller writes...

Gargoyles #5: Bash

First off I have to say how spectacular the artwork is looking in this issue; usually I have no problem with the art and actually quite like Hedgcock's work - but Karine Chalebois' experience of the characters certainly shines in what has to be the best looking issue to date! It's not perfect, some of the characters look quite stiff at times (a minor, trivial annoyance in comparison), but there are some scenes which literally shine off the page. I love the view Brendan has of the gargoyles fighting, Thailog and Brentwood gliding off from the Eyrie look spectacular, and Delilah really looks gorgeous as she shines out as her own gargoyle. This issue has made me all the more excited for Bad Guys; with artwork like this hopefully the series will blossom.

But let's get back to the Bash - this issue brings an end to the first all new canon 'episode' and nicely wraps up the story in 3, 4 and 5 whilst setting up even more intriguing questions for future issues.

Side points that really shone out:

There's a couple of familiar faces waiting for us outside the lift; seeing Mary and Finella makes me all the more impatient for Timedancer.

Super-goyle: Brooklyn coming out of the elevator like that really made me chuckle - loved it!

The action scenes - this issue was jam packed with action, so much so that I forgot that Thailog's was waiting for Delilah.

Brentwood - Now that was a surprise! I really thought that he would be the one to rebel against his master, but more on that later.

Now onto the story:

One con about getting the comic a week after everyone else is that the internet is a minefield of spoilers. Despite my best efforts to avoid spoiling the story I somehow found out that Delilah didn't choose Thailog and that Thailog's real goal in attacking was to obtain DNA from the gargoyles.

This latter revelation disappointed me before I'd even got the comic- why? When I heard DNA I thought more clones all over again - which didn't make sense. Thailog already had minions which listen to his beck and call why make more? I didn't understand it. I still don't really.

But as I thought about it (after I actually read the story) I became intrigued. What does Thailog actually want with DNA of the clan? What more could Sevarius do with gargoyle DNA that he hasn't done already (aside from Voodoo magic)? And I'm sure Thailog being a member of the Illuminati (which was a shock of sheer genius) complicates the matter even further. I suppose I'll just have to wait for the rest of Clan Building (and hopefully the rest of season 3) for all of this to be answered. But I have to say I'm intrigued, even excited. And as for Shari, well, she's certainly full of surprises - a number 9! Greg you certainly know how to leave us begging for more! So Shari, the mysterious unnamed woman who's been hanging around in the Labyrinth, is now Thailog's new executive assistant and outranks him as a fellow Illuminatus. And what exactly do the Illuminati want with the gargoyles?

Speaking of the Illuminati, we're certainly learning a lot more about them; Duval is actually no. 2 alongside Quincy Hemings. Who is number 1 then? Hmmm…

So the greeting that started off as 36 : 32 and ended as 36 : 9 is actually a ranking system; with thirty-six 36s, thirty-five 35s, all the way up to two 2s and one 1 that leads up to 666 members!

The Illuminati are certainly turning into the big players of this season, with their fingers in almost all the pots; financing the Quarrymen, overviewing the taskforce, a high ranking member is now working for Thailog, and now they're sending Xanatos on secret missions. These guys are really coming out to the forefront dominating the entire scene from behind the curtains.

Enough of secret societies; lets talk clones again.

One interesting thing about Bash is that the clones, especially Delilah, really come out of their shells.

Delilah: One interesting point was Owen finding her standing around in Xanatos' lab. Wonder what she was doing in there.

I was actually surprised by her language skills; they seem to be a lot better than that of the other clones.

"Is that an order, Angela? Or am I truly free to make my own choices?"

I said that I unfortunately knew already from spoilers that Delilah didn't go with Thailog. So when I first read Delilah say "I believe this fighting may cease now" I thought that she was going to spurt something cheesy to Thailog about him attacking her "friends" so she isn't going to go with him. But to my surprise and delight she makes the above retort to Angela. And after that she starts digging into a wounded Goliath.

"You used me!"

Wow! Not only had she been secretly listening to Goliath and Elisa's heart to heart from the previous issue, but she now reproaches Goliath for bringing her to Xanatos' Masque Ball. Her general attitude towards the Manhattan clan seems to be one of a cold unconcerned frigidity; her short responses to Goliath's proposal in "Invitation Only" at first seems as if she is only acting under her 'Obey Thailog' instincts. And throughout "Masque" she seems quiet and unresponsive; she doesn't stand out. It's only in response to seeing her "brothers" in trouble that she comes out of herself. At first I thought her command to stop the fighting was addressed to Thailog, but I'm now starting to think as to whether she was also addressing the Manhattan gargoyles who she feels are attacking her brothers.

Now onto her brothers;

Malibu: Well he's certainly Brooklyn's clone; this green gargoyle's smitten with Delilah and I think the main reason he stopped fighting is because Delilah arrived and suggested leaving for the labyrinth.

Hollywood: Gar-girl (lol!) that's all I'm going to say!

Brentwood: This guy is turning into a real character! Interestingly he takes a passive role in the fighting and just sits on the sidelines watching. From his constant utterances of "free-will" on Maggie's prompting I was thinking that if anyone would leave Thailog to join the side of the Angels, it would be this guy. I'm going to be following his character development with great interest (hopefully it'll involve gaining better diction and vocabulary). "Thailog smart."

"Dude, you're really making me look bad!"

Lex's reaction though is priceless, but still quite shocking. I feel sorry for the clones at times; these poor souls compelled by their master to attack their "parents" who then later shun them making them live in the underground sewers. Lex doesn't seem concerned that his clone is aligning with the "bad guy" but rather that Brentwood's choice plays badly upon himself.

The Manhattan clan wanted nothing to do with their clones originally; but I feel this only helped to bring this band of misfits even closer. And maybe this abandonment helps explain Delilah's coldness to Goliath's clan. Last time they met she was beaten and chained by Angela; her brothers also beaten and then the five of them are taken in by Talon.

Delilah shines out as the more astute and most intellectually developed and as thus stands out as their natural leader. The other clones seem like children in comparison - "Labyrinth good", "Hollywood not fight" - and in turn Delilah seems to have picked up the 'big sister' role. I think this clan's development is going to be interesting.

Thailog and Sevarius interestingly rendezvous at Nightstone. One thing that struck me when Thailog attacked the Labyrinth to collect his "property" - this is the gargoyle that swindled Xanatos of $20 million and tried to kill Demona and Macbeth only to obtain their fortunes, why would his first course of action upon resurfacing be to collect his minions? He had invested millions into Nightstone and I thought his primary goal would have been to recover his company from Demona. Surprisingly (this issue is full of surprises) it seems Thailog doesn't think he needs to take back Nightstone hostilely; it's obviously more profitable to bankroll Sevarius behind Demona's back.

Minor points

Dr Sato's reappearance was a welcome return. And it seems he's now been thrust into friendship with the gargoyles. Look forward to how this turns out.

Brendan seems to be close to the end with Margot; he's also got another up close view of the gargoyles.

This review's seems to have turned more into a ramble; all I can say is that this issue was spectacular. I thoroughly enjoyed it. 5/5 well done!

Chameleongirl writes...

Oh dear freaking god!!

In all the joyful bouncing I was doing, I totally forgot something.

The KISS! (Once again, this is where the giant pink sparkly heart would go).

Greg, the next time I make it to The Gathering (ha!) I totally owe you a major hug (how about a bum pinch, that ok too?) :D