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Lord Sloth writes...

Have you noticed, in "Metamorphesis", when Brooklen is in the ally trying to save Maggie, and a tranquilizer hits him, he shouts "Argk" or something, but it sounds quite a lot like "Fuck". I think there is an other instant in Gargoyles where this happens. So I was wondering if you or anyone else had noticed it and if there were any problems or conflects in releasing it.

Greg responds...

I have not noticed that. Neither did anyone else at Disney or it would have been corrected. Is it at all possible, my Lord, that you have a dirty mind?

Response recorded on July 11, 2001

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Todd Jensen writes...

In "Deadly Force", the trio describe "Showdown" as a "new movie", but it's a black-and-white film. Were the trio using the word "new" in a comparative sense (the same way that Lexington described Shakespeare as a "new writer" in "Enter Macbeth"), or was it genuinely a recent film that happened to be shot in black-and-white rather than color?

Greg responds...

It was either the latter or a restored rerelease of an old film. Either way, it was new to them.

Hey, Todd, I hope you'll post a Gathering Diary here. I'd like to read it.

Response recorded on July 11, 2001

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Sloth writes...

Just saw and recorded Sentinal, an episiode I origanally didn't like very much, when I thought aliens and Olimpians were too fantastic. But now that I've read the layout for the new spin off, and I can see where all this space spawn stuff is heading, I found it much more intreging!
Some questions though:
1)When Nokar first appeared and toke Elisa away, why did he just knock out Bronx and wait till latter to catch him all over again?
2)Nokar had a bunch of small rat like droids running about his ship, what were their purpose?
3)Why did Elisa chose the name tiny for Goliath?
4)A)When Goliath destroyed the control panal, which in turn destroyed that big central thing, how much did that hurt the space ship? It was still able to rise outa the ground and fire that cannon. B)Will Nokar be able to repair it?
5)A)How is Nokar getting on with his new friends? B)Has he made any more?
Thats all for this fun Ep. Nice work!

Greg responds...

1. His priority was getting Elisa to safety.

2. Multi-fold.

3. She was being sarcastic. (Sloth, why did you think?)

4a. Some.
4b. Yes.

5a. Not saying.
5b. Not saying.

Response recorded on July 10, 2001

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Sloth writes...

How did Elisa explaine her jump of the building in "The Silver Falcon" to Matt?

Greg responds...

He didn't see it.

Response recorded on July 10, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

Any plans on retconning parts of Hound of Ulster?

Greg responds...

No. My only regret there is that I didn't put Cu Chullain's armor and skeleton in the Cairn with Goliath, Angela and Elisa.

Response recorded on July 10, 2001

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Pyro X writes...

Greg;
The Native Peoples of NA came to NA VIA the Bering Strait some thousands of years ago.

1) When Oberon dispatched his "family" to live among mortals, did Raven make his way imediatly to Q.F.I off Canada?
2)Did Raven "take on" the persona of "The Raven" based on Native legend, or was he always "Raven"?
3) As you have said, you never know if that is Pucks true form (As the in the elvish form). Does this, as well, apply to the Other children? Was that Raven's true form?
4) Does Raven have a true form?
5) Did the "Raven" legend spring from "Raven" himself?
6) What WAS that thing Grandmother turned into??? (the thing with the weird mouth).

Thanks!

Greg responds...

Pyro,

Your initial premise is scientifically accepted. But I think many Native American Tribes disagree. It doesn't fit their legends and holy stories. For the purposes of Gargoyles, I'm not taking sides. All things are true.

1. Keep in mind that what Oberon mainly did was to banish the Children from Avalon and insist that they not interfere with mortal lives. It's not like Raven had never been among mortals up to that point.

2. He's Raven.

3. It applies to ALL the other children. Including Raven.

4. Do any of them?

5. See question 2.

6. I assume you mean Thunderbird. (She says that in the episode.)

Response recorded on July 10, 2001

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Sloth writes...

In Pendragon, Arther gives the order to fire the lightning weapon at the base of the water elemental. Once this is done, the elemental is destroyed. Since I was never good at science, explane how electrisity would destroy the elemental and leave Arther unharmed.

Greg responds...

We never said Arthur'd be unharmed. He wasn't unharmed.

But have you ever heard of the electrolysis of water?

Response recorded on July 10, 2001

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matt writes...

in "The Mirror" when Puck transformed the New York citizens into gargoyles why did he make them Scottish gargoyles?

Greg responds...

He didn't. He made them Manhattan gargoyles.

Response recorded on July 09, 2001

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Todd Jensen writes...

At the end of "The New Olympians", Taurus, after discovering how Elisa had risked herself to stop Proteus from destroying New Olympus, comments that she is not like the "humans of legend". Was this particular phrase intended as a sort of "double-meaning one"? While the obvious and immediate meaning is the humans of the New Olympians' legends, the evidence presented in the episode is that the same humans who mistreated them and drove them into hiding in their tales were, or included, the heroes of Greek legend such as Theseus, so that "humans of legend" could mean as much the humans of our legends as the New Olympians'. Was this intended as being the case?

Greg responds...

Yeah. Plus the on-going reversal in this episode. Like Gargoyles of legend or Olympians of legend. Here we were taking the point of view of these mythical creatures, to whom humans were the legendary "Other" that we've been talking about recently. Just part of the on-going exploration of the shows core themes, seen from the other side.

Response recorded on July 09, 2001

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Sloth writes...

Sorry Greg, I know this isn't a chat room but... Matt, I think Demona said: why do the little people always frustate me. Just sounds a bit better.

K, guess I better add a question. After creaming Goliath, why did Vinni just throw away Mr. Cartter after develiping such a close bond with it?
Also do you have any more plans for Mr. Cartter?

Greg responds...

Vinnie's a funny guy. Very single-minded, one thing at a time kinda guy. Mr. Carter was created for a very specific purpose. Once that purpose was served, he was free to discard it. After all, it was out of pie.

I don't have any more plans for the pie gun.

But I have very specific plans for the guy the pie gun was named after.

Response recorded on July 06, 2001

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John writes...

Hi Greg,
Today no talk, just the question:
In "Sanctuary", Macbeth got a picture of Elisa hanging in his livingroom. Was that a joke by the writers, or have you too not noticed it untill yet?
By the way: do you know, that John Rhys-Davies will play Gimli in the Lord of the Rings movie?
OK, that's all
CU, John

Greg responds...

I knew John was in the movie, not what he was playing.

I have noticed that there is a picture that looks like Elisa. At present I have no explanation for it. It certainly wasn't in the script.

Response recorded on July 06, 2001

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Sloth writes...

Questions about MIA:
1) does the clerc who told the man that Leo and Una were wearing masks know that they are really gargoyles?

2) where does the man, who was being attacked by thugs, come from? He didn't sound british and the thugs were saying get out and keep england pure.

3)How did Leo and Una explane their gliding and cool manuvers to the crowd watching them at the end? I think it would take more then very real masks.

BTW, this is one of my favorite eps. My only complaint was that some of the germans looked a bit too evil.

Greg responds...

1. It was a customer, not a clerk. And she didn't know then.

2. He was Pakistani by birth. Why?

3. That ending changed everything.

Response recorded on July 03, 2001

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WereFox writes...

I'd have to say that my favorite "off camera" moment for the series would have been Demona 1st encounter with Thailog. I know it wasn't necessary to show it, but such moments exist shearly for the look of shock and surprise you see on peoples faces. Had you actually imagined how it transpired? For, example, die Demona mistake Thailog for Goliath? Did Thailog get the drop on Demona first? Would have been a classic moment. Possibly the perfect counter point to "The Kiss".

Greg responds...

It'll make a good flashback some day.

Response recorded on July 03, 2001

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Demoness writes...

In the "Gathering pt 1" Oberon reminds Titania "It is my law not to interfer in human affairs. Let the woman keep her child."

Then a minute later he says: "If it pleases you, you have my permission to take the child."

Xanatos: "It's alright, no one is going anywhere. It is the epiphany [sp?] in interfering in human affairs by taking a child from its parents. By your own law, you can't do this."

Oberon: "I've made up my mind."

Xanatos is right....So Oberon just broke his law by trying to take Alex whether he is of Fae blood or not. He would still be interfering in Fox and David's lives. Doesn't he realize that he made a big mistake concerning his law? Or is it just because he's the King and he can do whatever he wants?

Greg responds...

That's your point of view. Not his. Not even mine necessarily. I'm not saying he was right about taking Alexander in any kind of moral sense. But I certainly see his point from a "law-interpretation" sense. Alex was a "Child of Oberon" (not literally). He therefore was not a mortal and not subject to the non-interference rule. Quite the contrary, Oberon had declared the Gathering. Alex was REQUIRED to attend by Oberon's law. Since he couldn't get there on his own power, Oberon was simply providing a taxi service. Giving them an hour -- monstrously cruel as it sounds to us -- seemed to him like a generous concession. After all, Alex was due in Avalon yesterday -- literally.

You can see the 'fairness' of his judgment in the way he deals with Fox. He could have insisted that she come too. Costing Xanatos both wife and child. But he ruled that Fox was "regrettably human". And thus he could not touch her. From his point of view he was being very fair.

And mentioning Oberon's earlier comment is specious. He didn't know who Alex was at the time.

Xanatos certainly, and obviously, has his point of view. But who is he to interpret Oberon's law relative to Oberon himself. Who had the backing of Titania by the way in said interpretation.

Response recorded on July 02, 2001

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Todd Jensen writes...

When you first had Xanatos and Owen mention the Emir in "The Edge", did you know that he'd feature in an episode in a prominent role at that time? Did you when you got to their mention of him in "Double Jeopardy"?

Greg responds...

Edge - No.

DJ - I was beginning to suspect that everything would eventually be used.

Response recorded on July 02, 2001

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Jimmy_Q writes...

Hey, Greg, at the end of "the mirror" (or whatever it's called, haven't seen the series in a few years, so i may not remember every little detail), Demona was shown reacting to the situation as if she had no idea that she had somehow transformed. In fact, she didn't figure out she turned human until later in that scene. Now, if I was her, I wouldn't be enjoying the thought of not being stone during the day so much as I would be freaking out over the pain I just felt throughout my whole body. Sorry, but if all of a sudden I felt like every bone, sinew, muscle, etc. in my body was being twisted and tied into knots, I wouldn't exactly spring up and bask in the sunshine as if nothing happened. So what happened here? Is this simply simply another one of those errors made throughout the series? BTW, just in case you're wondering, i discovered this site just a night or two ago, so it's not like it took all these years for this question to occur to me. Thanks for your time, bud.

Greg responds...

You're welcome.

There was no pain during that first transformation. Puck wanted to spring it on her as a surprise, so the pain was surpressed that once.

Response recorded on July 02, 2001

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Blaine writes...

I might be mistaken on this, but as I recall in "Reawakening" didn't Demona say she something to the effect of she had tried everything (sorcery and science) to bring him (Coldstone) back to life? So, does that mean that she was carrying around what was left of Coldstone's body (and Desdemona and Iago's bodies also) around with her all over the world for the thousand years before "The Awakening"?

Greg responds...

You're mistaken. So, no.

Response recorded on July 02, 2001

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Corrine Blaquen writes...

Last night I was watching 'Hunter's Moon, Part II' on Toon Disney. Since it's definately one of my favorite episodes, I tried to spot all the stuff I'd missed when on previous viewings. I was delighted by what I found!

It was in the scene right after when Elisa gives Angela CPR. In a short time afterwards dawn comes. What I noticed was that just before they turn to stone, Broadway moves beside where Angela is lying and takes her hand. It was happening in the background and no attention was called to it, but I thought that was incredibly sweet! I really loved it. Was that another hint that Broadway and Angela would end up together? If it was, it was a VERY nice way to do so. :-)

Another question about Hunter's Moon, Part II: When Goliath is just outside Elisa's window, seeing all that happens within (My original reaction to Elisa and Jason was *GASP!* "OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO OHMYGOD, NO!" So on and so forth), could he hear what was being said? I couldn't tell.

And I'd like to take a brief moment to say thanks for creating a show with characters that can endear themselves with little background actions and that make me care SO MUCH that its hero gets the girl!

Greg responds...

1. Yes. As soon as Gary Sperling and I decided (while working on Turf) that Broadway and Angela would wind up together, we tried to show their relationship building -- in subtle ways.

2. Yes, he could hear. But in Soap Opera fashion, he left before he heard it all. To our credit, even the stuff he missed wasn't exactly equivocal.

You're welcome. Thanks for watching.

Response recorded on July 02, 2001

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Demoness writes...

Isn't Elisa a member of Goliath's clan? If so, why was she affected by Oberon's magic in "The Gathering" when he decreed that Goliath's clan was immune.

Greg responds...

Oberon clearly doesn't realize that she's a member.

Response recorded on July 01, 2001

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Demoness writes...

1a. Do the Fae tap into Earth's Magic?

1b. If yes, lets say a Fae somehow finds himself on Mars, would he be weaker then normal or completely powerless, or not effected at all?

2. How come Oberon could throw Xanatos magically when his magic is powerless against iron? (The Gathering pt 2)

3. In your opinion, who would win in a fair battle, Q or Oberon?

4. When did the Mab/Oberon war happen? Could you please give me an estimated date like c. 1000 BC-500 BC.

Greg responds...

1a. Sometimes.

1b. I'm not big on hypotheticals.

2. He grabbed his head.

3. I have no interest in this question.

4. It is forbidden.

Response recorded on July 01, 2001

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Sloth writes...

When Goliath found out Puck was Owen, or owen was puck, whey didn't he persue the matter of whether Future Tense was a dream or a profossy?

Greg responds...

What's a 'profossy'?

Seriously, did the timing seem right to you?

And at any rate, G's not a dope. He knows he'd never get a straight answer from the Puck.

Response recorded on July 01, 2001

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matt writes...

oh, and why did Gliath tell the trio to take Bronx down to the rookery with them when they got in trouble in "Awakening Part 1"?

Greg responds...

He seemed to be part of the disturbance.

Response recorded on June 30, 2001

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matt writes...

1. are beast egss different from regular garg eggs in any way? like size, color, markings, texture, etc.

2. are most gargoyle rookeries pretty similar? a dark, humid cave as we saw in "Awakening"?

3. what was that smily green stuff that who-would-be-Broadway find and eat on the rookery wall?

4. what was causing the rookery to glow? was it that grenn smily stuff?

5. do all gargoyle eggs look like each other among the different clans? would a wise gargoyle be able to tell the difference between a London garg egg and a Guatemalan garg egg for instance?

Greg responds...

1. No.

2. More or less.

3. Uh, mold?

4. Yes.

5. I doubt it.

Response recorded on June 30, 2001

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Epantiras writes...

What appends in "Future Tense" is the real future or only a nigthmare?

Greg responds...

Some from column A, some from column B.

Response recorded on June 29, 2001

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Shavri writes...

Hi, Mr. Weisman! I'm curious, how come Xanatos, in "Cloud Fathers," didn't seem to notice that Angela would have been a little too old, _biologically_, to be Goliath's daughter? I mean, she's like what--10 years younger than her father? I would have thought that was a little odd. How about you?

Greg responds...

Obviously, he didn't know the details of how it all worked out. But he knew from Sevarius that Angela was G's bio-daughter. So he wasn't SHOCKED at the news. And at any rate, he's not the sort to act shocked by anything.

Response recorded on June 29, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

In "Macbeth" when Elisa, Broadway and Lexington tried to get the Grimorum Akrimnorum (I think I spelled that wrong)
and Owen tries to stop them Elisa just gos ahead and takes Xanatose's property along with Broadway and Lex so if she's a police officer then doesn't she have to follow the law like everyone else?

Thanks Alot

Greg responds...

Arcanorum. And it's highly debatable who's property it was -- at least in Elisa's mind.

Response recorded on June 27, 2001

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Todd Jensen writes...

In "High Noon", why did the Weird Sisters get Othello to seize back control of Coldstone from Iago? That rather puzzles me, seeing that the result of Coldstone's "shift in loyalties" saved Elisa and the clan, and consequently allowed Elisa, Goliath, and Bronx to help the Avalon clan against the Archmage and the Weird Sisters - almost a case of the Sisters shooting themselves in the foot, in fact.

Greg responds...

Yeah, seems that way doesn't it.

But... first off, the Weird Sisters represent three opposing forces battling for ascendency without ever acknowledging or even being aware of the conflict. So more was going on then you saw.

Second, they were concerned with the Archmage's short term goals. They didn't want a prolonged battle. They wanted Demona and Macbeth to get away with the Gate, the Eye and the Grimorum. And they wanted the Manhattan Clan to be unaware of the theft. Helping Othello aided that cause.

Finally, it's asking a lot for them to predict what would happen on Avalon. Or is it?

Response recorded on June 27, 2001

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Puck writes...

You know in the eposode "Metaphors" I think it is when Dr.Zervarious turns Derek Maza into a gargoyle and tries to fake a deth in front of Derek or Talon he gets electocuted how did he servive the peronas.
And if possible can you cantact me at bbaleja@hotmail.com thanks.

Greg responds...

No, I'm sorry. We have this forum for a reason. I don't personally contact people with answers. We want to share the info with everyone.

Anyway...

"Metamorphosis" not "Metaphors".

Sevarius not Zervarious.

Derek's turned into a Mutate not a gargoyle.

death not deth.

electrocuted not electocuted.

survive not servive.

piranhas not peronas.

And they were electric eels not piranhas.

contact not cantact.

(Sorry, to pick on you, Puck, but I'm a former English Teacher and Editor. At some point the quantity of typos and errors in such a short post overwhelms me. I'm not saying I never have them. But a little proof-reading would be nice.)

Anyway, it was all pre-arranged. The eels probably didn't have enough charge to kill anyone. (Frankly, it's a detail I'm not that interested in.)

Response recorded on June 27, 2001

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Jim R. writes...

Questions on "The Mirror":
1. In the beginning, we see Elisa undercover as a nightwatchman or should I say "nightwatchwoman." Anyways, I'm sure anyone who watched real closely notices that when she looks in the mirror simply to beautify her hair, and then suddenly hears the noise of Demona approaching. She rotates quickly to see, but her reflection in the mirror does not. It remains the same image from only seconds before. Was this merely an animation mistake? Or was it intentional because it is Titania's mirror?
2. How did Elisa and Goliath know that Demona was going for the mirror? Kinda weird that by chance they just happened to be there, but I know there was some pre-existing knowledge of Demona's plan when we hear Goliath say, "At least she didn't get the mirror."
3. How did Demona manage to rent out an apartment or maybe even the whole building where she had the mirror delivered?
4. After Puck does his first major city-wide transformation, he falls unconscious. Demona picks him up, and we see her sort of taking advantage of his levitational ability to escape into the subway where the other gargs persuing fall short because lack of wind. Why is it that Puck can still fly even though unconscious? Or was he?
5. Why did Bronx not get transformed earlier?
6. Was the trash can (that I think Hudson used to trap Puck, but I don't remember accurately) made of iron or have traces of iron ore in it? I suppose it would have to in order to trap Puck, but most metal trash cans are usually made of aluminum.

Greg responds...

1. It was intentional to hint that the mirror had magical properties.

2. They didn't know. But they guessed right. It seemed like a tempting prize for the likes of Demona or Macbeth or Xanatos.

3. She owns that house and has for decades. A person with a lot of money can make arrangements.

4. She's not using his levitational ability. She's just leaping around. She has powerful legs.

5. He wasn't there.

6. Yes, it was an old iron trash can.

Response recorded on June 21, 2001

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Vashkoda writes...

I just rewatched "Vendettas", and yup, a few questions came to mind:

1) While battling Wolf/Hakon, I noticed that Hudson is pretty proficient with his sword, yet you said that he had just happened to pick up the weapon during the battle with the Vikings. Had he actually had some sword training beforehand, or did he learn how to use one through trial and error?

2) While Hakon was possessing Wolf, he told him that if he destroyed the axe, Hakon would lose his only link to the Earth plane and disappear. However, in "Possession", Desdemona and Othello lamented over the fact that if they destroyed the Coldstone body, they would be trapped in Broadway and Angela forever. You've said before that the relationship that Hakon has with the axe is similar to that of the Coldtrio and their mechanical bodies. a) So if what the Coldtrio said about possessing hosts also applies to Hakon, would he in fact have been able to remain permanently in Wolf's body if the latter had destroyed the axe while he was still being possessed? b) Puck had said that soul transferance was tricky, and that the host had to be willing to be possessed. So how was Hakon able to take over Wolf? Wolf didn't seem to happy about it when he regained consciousness, so I don't think he would have been willing. c) Why did Hakon need to worry about Wolf destroying the axe? Couldn't he have taken complete possession of Wolf once he managed to get inside him and prevented him from doing the weapon any harm?

Greg responds...

1. Maybe a bit of both.

2. a. Different deal, basically.

b. They were sympatico. Ancestor/descendent with a common hatred of Goliath.

c. Obvioulsy, he couldn't. Not when Wolf was conscious.

Response recorded on June 21, 2001

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matt writes...

well Todd, if you are not going to ask it, i guess i will...

in "Legion" when Coldstone first arrives at the Clocktower, Bronx is growling. Iago hasn't come to the surface yet, so is Bronx growling cuz he has something against Coldstone or robots/cyborgs, or does he sense the evil one inside Coldstone or what?

Greg responds...

I guess the latter. I'd have to look at it again.

Response recorded on June 20, 2001

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Buck writes...

At the end of "Temptation", Elisa tells (commands?) Goliath (under the spell) to always act as if he was not under a spell. I'm assuming this means for all spells and not just that particular one he was under. If this assumption is correct, how would Goliath be affected by Puck's spells in "The Mirror"? I want to say there are other times he's been under a spell, but I haven't seen too many episodes on Toon Disney yet (I just got the station) and I'm cursed with a poor memory.

Greg responds...

You're assumption is incorrect.

She didn't (couldn't) give him full magical immunity. She didn't have that kind of control. She simply ordered the slave to act FOREVER as if he wasn't one.

Response recorded on June 20, 2001

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Epyon Zero writes...

In Avalon 2, when Archamge 2 talk to Archmage 1, he says he' ll need many things: weapons, allies, soldiers, a base of operation, etc

Weapons: Eye of Odin, Grimorum, Phoenix Gate
Allies: Weird Sisters
Soliders: Demona, Macbeth
Base: Avalon

Beside those mentioned, did any others things/people were plan by the Archmage?

Greg responds...

Huh?

No. If I read you right.

(PROOFREAD, GUYS!)

Response recorded on June 19, 2001

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Jada writes...

Here's a question that's been bugging me for days:
In Awakenings part 1 when Hakon is climbing the castle and Goliath wakes up, but he dosn't roar, his eyes just glow and he stands up.

Thanks

Greg responds...

I'm sorry, what's the question?

Response recorded on June 10, 2001

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Jim R. writes...

Just watched "Vows" and I have some questions:
1. Demona breaks the Phoenix Gate in half to share it with Goliath. How is this possible? I would of thought the Gate, being forged on Avalon, would be indestructable since it is of pure magic. But how can a mortal such as Demona simply break it as if it were a cracker?
2. Stupid questions: Can the gate still work being broken in half? How much more can it be broken?
3. Does Goliath explain the whole situation to Hudson about how they turn to stone for a 1000 years, when Hudson first sees him after he has arrived from the future? I wouldn't think so, but I was thinking that Hudson might be a bit curious about Goliath's time-travel story. And Hudson, being a wise garg, would think twice as to whom this future Goliath could possibly be.
4. Why was castle Wyvern still burning when future Demona brought her past self to see what would become of their kind? Goliath and the rest of the gargs were already turned to stone to sleep for a 1000 years, and I would have thought that the castle fires would be out by then.

Greg responds...

1. I'm sorry, why should it be indestructable? I don't follow your logic there at all. After all, Oberon's not indestructable. Keep in mind, breaking it in half didn't destroy it anyway. It simply neutralized it until the pieces were joined again. At which point they soon sealed up as if they had never been broken.

2. No. Don't know.

3. Goliath consciously chose to reveal as little as possible. You saw most of their conversation on screen.

4. On one level, you can call it artistic license. Or you could say that there were still a few fires burning that no one bothered to put out.

Response recorded on June 10, 2001

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matt writes...

i just watched "Enter Macbeth". i think this was the first of lots of sad ending-episodes... after this in "Reawakening" Coldstone is awakened and apparently dies, in "Metamorphosis" Derek is mutated and decieved by Xanatos, really sad ending, in "Legion" Coldstone is brought back but is destroyed by a virus, and on and on until "Hunters Moon" when the Clocktower is destroyed and the gargoyles are exposed. a very bittersweet series, really, i love it! anyway, back to my point, in "Enter Macbeth" you opened with Xanatos in prison in a dark cell eating bad prison food, while the gargs are living it up at the Eyrie, Broadway cooking in a well-equiped kitchen, Hudson watching the tube in his own tv room, Brooklyn and Lex playing cards in the big foyer, Goliath reading in the nice library, and the Grimorum safe in a high-tech glass display case. but by the end of the episode the clan is the ones living in the dark uncomfortable cell, the Clocktower, no more tv room, you have to break into the public library to read, the best you have for a kitchen is a hotplate, and the Grimorum is now stored in a closet behind a regular wooden door, and as for Xanatos, he's back home now, living the good life atop the worlds tallest building. now, my literature teacher in high school taught me to always see symbolism in everything and though i didn't see it before, this whole episode teems with it. i just wanted to congratulate you and the writers, this is great television, i think!

Greg responds...

Thanks.

Images of HOME were consciously threaded throughout this episode. You've left out Macbeth's glorious home, which goes up in flames for his efforts.

Some justice in the world.

Response recorded on June 10, 2001

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matt writes...

you said that Iago decieved Othello and Desdemona in 993 and that he was banished after that, but he came out of his banishment in 994, in time for the massacre. is all that right?
why was it such a short banishment?
how do gargoyles decide on how long to banish a clan member?
does the whole clan decide the banishment time/punishment or just the leader?
was Goliath in effect banishing the trio but only lightly when he sent them to the rookery or was that a common punishment for young gargs?

Greg responds...

That's basically right.

The banishment was for a year, which isn't that short considering he didn't kill anyone. He was just causing trouble. (Whispering in Othello's ear, causing Othello to act like a jerk isn't that big a crime, I guess.) Also, Iago may have done something to get back in everyone's good graces. At least begrudgingly.

The leader makes the final decision.

He wasn't literally banishing them. Sort of telling them to sit in the corner. It was not an uncommon punishment. But it was mostly done just to temporarily difuse things while he was gone for what he assumed would be a short errand.

Response recorded on June 10, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

What was that thing in Pendragon? Was it a actual dragon or was it a gargoyle seeing that it was protecting the sword?

Greg responds...

Neither. It was a stone statue brought to life by powerful magicks.

Response recorded on June 10, 2001

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Jim R. writes...

Sorry Greg, I realized that I had an episode spelling error (because I know how you feel about spelling). In my last post the episode should be "Legion" not "Legend." For some strange reason, whoever created the video tape label on my tapeset spelled it "Legend". Thanks to matt for helping me realize my mistake... :)

Greg responds...

No prob.

Response recorded on June 09, 2001

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matt writes...

in "Shadows of the Past", did the stone clan that Hakon and the Captain created each look like actual gargoyles that died in the massacre, as in Goliath would recognize them individually?

Greg responds...

Theoretically. The Captain knew them all personally.

Response recorded on June 09, 2001

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Jim R. writes...

A few questions on "Legend" mainly some technical quarks, I noticed:

1. Who had the idea for designing the animation for the inside circuitry of Coldstone? I know its just a cartoon, but those gates that were opening and closing with electricity when Coldstone was repairing himself, I guess were supposed to be transistors, but looked nothing like them.
2. Who also, had the idea for the computer virus? Not exactly the way I'd see a virus, maybe in a biological sense. Nevertheless I guess it's how it's perceived by the person in contact with it, mainly Goliath, Coldstone, etc.
3. What caused Coldstone to go after the government-related data? It seemed as if the programming were controlling his actions, not one of the three souls trapped within him. He looked as if he were moving on impulse giving me the impression that someone else (maybe Xanatos) was controlling him remotely.
4. Even if one of the three souls (probably the hated one) was controlling him, what purpose would it want with government-related data on weapons systems? (That being if Coldstone was not being controlled remotely by someone else.)
5. How do the police boats coming after Matt B.'s VR device not notice the gargoyles? Surely someone would have noticed something seeing how they were in the middle of the bay, and the only means of escape for the gargs would be to liftoff.
6. At the end, Xanatos is sitting in front of his computer looking at what I guess is the virus running on it. If the virus were the most potentially-dangerous computer virus created thus far, why did it not destroy any of the files on his computer? Or did it?

Greg responds...

I assume you're talking about "Legion". We didn't have an episode called "Legend". At least not in the first 66.

1. Don't remember.

2. That would have been, me and/or the story editors and/or the writers.

3. Xanatos' programming. Some of which was broadcasted.

4. See above.

5. Uh, fog?

6. Safeguards? Maybe it was running on an isolated system.

Response recorded on June 09, 2001

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matt writes...

ok, i know you don't ever plan to reveal on-screen the biological relationship between Hudson and Broadway, but i was wondering, does Sevarius know? afterall, he discovered the link between Goliath and Angela looking at their DNA, so when he was creating the clones in "The Reckoning" did he see the father-son relationship between Hudson and Broadway? if he did, did he tell anyone about it? Thailog? Demona? Xanatos?

Greg responds...

I suppose he knows. I'm just not sure to whom that information would be interesting. Still, someday...

Response recorded on June 09, 2001

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Todd Jensen writes...

Was part of the purpose of the eggs' brief mention in "Awakening" (aside from the preparation for their re-introduction in "Avalon" later on, when you got around to it) an indication to the audience that the gargoyles were genuine living beings rather than statues brought to life by magic? The presence of gargoyle eggs, after all, does indeed indicate that the gargoyles weren't mere magical creations (I doubt that animated statues would be able to breed).

Greg responds...

Yes, in a way, anyhow. It was part of the whole picture to that end. Goliath bled. He could be killed, etc.

Response recorded on May 30, 2001

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Vashkoda writes...

I just finished re-watching "Shadows of the Past" (wow, was that one well animated), and a few questions came to mind.

1) Was the rookery located outside the castle walls or within them? I had the impression from "Awakenings" that it was inside, but in "Shadows", Goliath looks forward into the distance and sees the illusion of the castle, and then looks to the right and sees the rookery (plus, if the rookery had been within the castle, I would think Xanatos might have taken it with him). I just wanted to be sure where it was.

2) When Elisa asks Goliath if there are caves nearby to take shelter from the storm, why don't they just go inside the rookery?

3) The group don't seem to go very far to reach the Archmage's cave, but I got the impression from "Long Way" that Hudson had been following the Archmage's tracks for a while, and it was apparently far enough away that the Captain chose to take a horse to get there in "Awakenings". Roughly how far (miles?) is the cave from where Castle Wyvern used to be?

4) You've said you didn't want to talk about the Monolith Dance, but there were several other structures in the cave, including the skull-like formation where the Archmage made his "last" stand, and the maw-like formation that Goliath entered after falling through the fissure. a) Were these structures shaped to represent any specific creatures (or a specific species)? b) If so, were these particular creatures/species important to those who built the structures in the cave?

5) Was the fissure Goliath fell through the same fissure that the Archmage fell into? Goliath had already passed the skull-like formation when he fell, and it didn't seem to be at the same spot the Archmage fell. Or is this a long fissure that runs through the entire cavern?

Greg responds...

1. Beneath.

2. What was the rookery, was just a glorified cave. When the castle was excavated for transport. The cave was basically wiped out.

3. I don't know exactly. It's down the hill, next cliff on your right.

4. Not discussing that at this time.

5. Two separate things.

Response recorded on May 08, 2001

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matt writes...

in "Monsters":

did the Xanatos goon squad die when the sub sank at the end? we never saw them after that...

how did Sevarius survive? escape pod?

Greg responds...

Bruno lived. But I figure the others went down.

Sevarius had a pod or something.

Response recorded on May 08, 2001

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Jim R. writes...

Oh, one other statement on "Metamorphosis":
The course of events leading up to Derek being accidently injected with the mutagenic formula seemed awkward. Was it Xanatos' plan to have Derek mutated? In a way it seems it was Derek's fate to be transformed since he asked to go with Xanatos, even though Xanatos said "That won't be necessary." But Derek insisted and ended up going for the ride.

What if Derek didn't go along or had never made an attempt to take the shot for Xanatos when Sevarius was going to shoot the mutagenic formula at him initially? Xanatos would have been hit with it and he would have mutated. That must have been one hell of a risk he took, not knowing that Derek might not come to his rescue. Seeing how the whole time Xanatos and Sevarius were allied and the whole thing seemed like a setup for Derek. But it still gets me as to why the things happened the way they did? For the story's sake in suppose. I at least would have expected Xanatos to scold Sevarius for almost shooting at him. Or is there something that I am missing?

Greg responds...

You're missing Xanatos' basic rule for operation. Contingency plans for everything. Owen said what he said to GET Derek interested. If Derek hadn't volunteered, Xanatos would have asked him to come.

If Derek hadn't been heading for Xanatos, Sevarius would not have shot at that point. Sevarius was aiming for Derek, not Xanatos.

But every aspect of the plan was backed by contingencies.

Response recorded on May 08, 2001

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matt writes...

ok, now a few questions about "The Reckoning"...

1. did Demona keep a "mosquito" in her belt buckle for each gargoyle or just Lexington?

2. did she and Thailog plan to get Elisa's DNA together or was everything about Delilah a secreat from Demona? what i mean is, did Demona plan on getting Elisa's DNA or not?

3. TGC episode "Genesis Undone" is not canon, and you've said that Thailog had not died in the fire, is that right? if so, would he have suffered any major lasting injuries from the fire? if he did survive, why did he let Demona go on running Nightstone Unlimited even though some of it belonged to him?

4. i'm guessing Fang went back to his cell, correct?

5. if Sevarius could so easily combine human and gargoyle DNA to make Delilah, why not mix and match different gargoyle DNA for a bit of diversity? or did he? i've noticed that the four main clones seem to have combinations of different gargs. for instance, Hudson's clone looks mostly like Hudson, but has Lex's coloring, and Brooklyn's clone looks mostly like Brooklyn, but has Broadway's coloring and fanned ears. was there mixing going on?

Greg responds...

1. More than one for each.

2. Not.

3. He was laying low.

4. For a bit.

5. No. The coloring changes were a result of the forced aging. The same thing that caused Thailog's coloring to be different from Goliath's.

Response recorded on May 08, 2001

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Lady Dominique Macbeth writes...

Greg,
At the end of Metemorphosis, after Elisa learns her brother has been mutated, she sits in a corner of the clocktower crying. I completely understood this--a perfectly natural reaction-- but what I didnt understand is why no one tried to comfort her. I mean, she is close to the whole clan and ou said by this time Goliath already had definate feelings for her, so why didnt someone try to help her through something that could quite possibly be the hardest time of her life?

Thanks so much!!!!

Greg responds...

You only saw a fragment of time.

Response recorded on May 04, 2001

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Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...

Here's a question about Demona in "Reawakening". She says to Goliath, "We have each created our own clans Goliath, you have yours and I have mine." and she says this indicating Coldstone, Xanatos in his armor and the Steel Clan robot.

While I can understand Coldstone and perhaps even the Steel Clan robot. Why does she acknowledge Xanatos in this? Especially considering that he's human.

Greg responds...

She's trying to convince herself, more than G. So she needs the numbers to make it seem clan-like. It's not rational.

Response recorded on May 04, 2001

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matt writes...

just watched "Possesions", one of my favirote eps by the way, anyway, i thought of a few questions...

1. ok, is it me, or does Lex hate Coldstone? the whole clan doesn't like Iago, but Lexington seems to hate Coldstone in general... in "Legion" he trys to convince Goliath not to invite Coldstone into the clan, or back to the clocktower and that was before they knew about the other souls in Coldstone, in "High Noon" he warns Goliath about freeing Coldstone, this time his concern was justified, but in "Possesions" Lex really seems to hate Coldstone, when Coldstone first arrives Lex screams his astonishment at Coldstone being brought to the clocktower by "Goliath" and "Hudson", then he seems to be the most skeptical about "Goliath's" plan, and then he is the only one not to volunteer for the soul transference. so, am i right? does Lex have a major problem with Coldstone? is it jealousy, i mean, does Lex wish he was as integrated with technology as Coldstone is? "Future Tense" comes to mind...

2. why does Puck keep trying to make Xanatos look evil to the gargs? in "Future Tense" his illusion of Xanatos is pretty nasty, and in "Possesions" Puck goes on about how Xanatos is about to unleash new robots and he is not sincere about oweing Goliath for helping to save his son, obviously Puck doesn't believe these things, but why try to make the gargs believe it?

3. any reason that Iago/Coldsteel didn't have a tail (either in cyberspace or as a robot) in "Possesions", but did have one in "Legion" and "High Noon"?

sorry for the lengthy questions...

Greg responds...

1. No. I don't think so. I just think he's very aware of Coldstone's potential danger to the clan.

2. He's simply playing to Goliath's weaknesses.

3. I never noticed that. Are you sure?

Response recorded on May 04, 2001

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Seeker of Knowledge writes...

Why didn't Renard and Vogal fall asleep when Oberon cast his sleep spell?

Greg responds...

They weren't in Manhattan when the spell was cast. Later, when they came in, they kept an energy field around the bridge of Fortress-Two.

Response recorded on May 02, 2001

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Angie I. writes...

Howdy, Greg! I'm not a regular visitor to this area, so I apolgize in advance if you've already been asked about this. I looked through the archived responses, but I might have missed something.

In the episode "Grief," Goliath mentioned that gargoyles age at half the speed of humans. Does that mean that a young gargoyle that has been alive for 20 years would only appear to be a 10 year old equivelant to a human child? Because if Jackel aged the Gargoyles for the same amount of years as he did Elisa, wouldn't they really have become half of what Jackel had intended? Aging 40 years ahead instead of 80? If it's true that they age at exactly half the rate of humans, I'm sure Angela would look worn and maybe a grey hair or two, but I doubt that she would look as near death as she did. Please clear this up for me. What is the exact rate that Gargoyles age when compared to humans?

Thank you. :)

Greg responds...

You got the age rate correct, but not Jackal's intentions. He was going for OLD -- he was draining energy. He wasn't specifically saying, I want fifty years from Elisa and 100 from those gargs. Just I want them old.

Response recorded on May 02, 2001

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matt writes...

in "Reawakening" we suddenly see Coldstone in Times Square. did Xanatos and Demona send him there to get Goliath's attention? or did Coldstone end up there himself? or what?

Greg responds...

They sent him out.

Response recorded on May 02, 2001

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Angel writes...

In Hunter's Moon, Demona is going to blanket the world with her virus, killing all the humans, i was thinking that, if Macbeth is human and Demona is responsible for the virus, would'nt die, and wouldn't she?

I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but i haven't seen that epiodes.
Anyway, just wondering.

Greg responds...

It's SO been covered. Did you even look in either the Demona or Macbeth archive?

Short answer: It would depend on Demona's true intent.

Response recorded on May 02, 2001

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matt writes...

okay, you don't have to tell me what Titania whispered to Fox, but Xanatos was standing right there, did he hear what Titania whispered? if not, did Fox tell him what Titania whispered to her?

Greg responds...

X did not hear. Fox did not tell him.

Response recorded on April 17, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

Why did the Weird Sisters have Demona and MacBeth steal Coldstone? I mean MacBeth and Demona stole it to make sure that the Gargoyles didn't find out about the theft of the three talismans, but what did the sisters have to gain from it? They could have teleported the duo beyond the grasp of the gargoyles.

Greg responds...

Demona and Macbeth were not in control.

The point was to steal the three items without alerting Goliath's suspicions. Stealing Coldstone accomplished that. Goliath never even realized the three items were missing. Teleporting has nothing to do with anything.

Response recorded on April 09, 2001

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Alex "Cyclonus" Bishansky writes...

When Goliath put on the Eye of odin, how come his armor looked like Odin's? Neither Fox not the Archmage took on any of elements of Odin's appearance.

Greg responds...

Proximity is literally part of the reason.

Goliath became an avatar of Odin, much like Jackal did for Anubis.

Response recorded on April 09, 2001

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Duncan Devlin writes...

In the Guatemala episode, Jackal carved his face into Goliath's in his dream. If a person were to do this to a Gargoyle and he woke up at dusk, what would happen?

Greg responds...

Nothing nice.

Response recorded on April 08, 2001

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matt writes...

in "Sanctuary" when Macbeth and Demona are fighting, Demona gets a hold of a gun and so does Elisa, Macbeth pulls back his jacket to let Demona shoot him and in the last second starts saying "NO!". is this because he realizes he doesn't want Demona to kill him and or is it because he sees that Elisa is about to shoot Demona and thus he won't die?

Greg responds...

He sees Elisa and realizes that her intervention will spoil his suicide attempt.

Response recorded on April 08, 2001

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matt writes...

i know Xanatos used the Cauldron of Life in Coyote's reconstruction cuz it was iron and would hold Coyote the Trickster, but couldn't he have used any old iron to do this? some may say that Xanatos used the Cauldron so as not to be wasteful, but i think he really was wasting the Cauldron on something that any iron would do. so why did he use the cauldron?

Greg responds...

He wasn't taking any chances, I guess. He wanted his robot to not merely be iron, but to be magically powerful.

Response recorded on March 29, 2001

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matt writes...

at the end of "The Mirror" Demona is looking out the window at the sun and she says, "I can't believe it, he actually did it. And the sun is so warm." i'm wondering, did she say she can't believe it because she thought Puck was playing games with her when he cast the spell or because she was astonished that the spell actually worked?

Greg responds...

The former. Which includes the latter.

Response recorded on March 29, 2001

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matt writes...

while reading Greg Bishansky's great rambles on "CoS" i thought of a question, or rather, a comment: was it me or were there an awful lot of people outside, on the street, driving around, etc. at dawn when they all turned to stone? i can't imagine people would be shopping and whatever so early, oh, well... maybe i'm wrong.

Greg responds...

New York. The city that never sleeps.

But you have it backwards. Those people were out at Dusk, not Dawn. They turned to stone at NIGHT. Sundown. Not sunrise.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Jim R. writes...

In the episode, "The Mirror", why did Elisa act as if Goliath had turned back into a gargoyle when he already was one of course, whenever she was transformed into one? Vise versa when the clan was transformed into humans, why did they act as if they always had been humans? What I mean to say and what I always got confused about is, that Puck's spell shouldn't have made them forget what they were. When Elisa was transformed I would have expected her to be a little shocked at first, and then calm whenever she realized that she and Goliath were now of the same species, but she would still long to become human again deep inside.

Greg responds...

Why?

I mean why are you setting limits on Puck?

The whole point was that NOBODY noticed the transformation. When all of Manhattan was transformed, the former humans didn't run around panicked and screaming over their new bodies. The transformation was so complete they thought they had always been that way. Same with Elisa and the gargs until logic forced them to take a closer look at it.

Anyway, it worked fine for me. If it makes you feel any better a lot of my staff originally agreed with you. They thought I was nuts. But most vindicated me later.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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matt writes...

when the Magus died on the bed of the Sleeping King, did they just leave him there? i can't imagine they would unless there was some sort of magic there that would keep the Magus from decomposing, which would be kinda gross. so if they left him there, will he decompose or not?

Greg responds...

It seemed a fitting resting place. And crypts aren't that unusual. But I'm guessing they sealed off the Hill.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Entity writes...

High Noon responses:

I always noticed the "sense of smell" error in the cyberspace scene. I'm gratified, as I've been with a lot of the revelations found in your episode-by-episode commentaries, that this not pure neglect or that at least it is recognized after the fact and has an explanation, in real life or in theory. Thanks.

On stealing Coldstone, I always wondered why Macbeth and Demona needed to sneak into the precinct house through the front door. Since they escaped in a hovercraft, couldn't they have landed from one directly atop the clocktower?

That's about all. I'm sure everyone else will cover the other bases.

Greg responds...

They didn't have the Grimorum UNTIL they snuck in, so they couldn't mask the hovercraft until after they stole the Grimorum.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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matt writes...

in "Awakening Pt 1" we see, briefly, another gargoyle with Lexington's wing structure. cosidering how rare it is, would it be safe to assume that the gargoyle was a close relative biologically to Lex, like his father or older brother? was that gargoyle one of these?

Greg responds...

Maybe. Though I never said it was rare. Just rarer.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Aaron writes...

City of Stone, 1-4 mini-ramble.

There so much to address here, I should really dig out my tapes before attacking it, but...

A few things still stick out.

I remember the first time I watched it, and thinking something didn't quite add up with what Demona was saying. Before the advent of mass media, exactly how would Demona get enough people together to make a spell like the one she sold Xanatos on worthwhile?

I remember being really impressed with the scene where MacBeth goes skysurfing, or whatever you want to call it, with the line wrapped around Demona's leg. Really good showcase of exactly how determined, not to say completely mental, MacBeth is at this point. Can you imagine how much it would hurt if Demona did succeed in shaking him off? Even if you're immortal that's gotta suck.

And of course, I did love the double punch D&M give Goliath. (But then, I'm a Demona fan, so watching the big purple guy take one usually amuses me)

Greg responds...

I think the idea of the lie in the past was that Demona just stole massive quantities of youth from a few individuals. This was a way to do it so that NO ONE could possibly notice or miss the time. At least, that's what she told X.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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matt writes...

in "Heritage", does Raven call Natsilane a bratty Chief, as in a brat, or a Bradi Chief, as in the name of Natsilane's tribe when he says, "If the B.... Chief won't fight me, the island is mine!" i can see why Raven would say both, but i'm leaning toward the latter.

Greg responds...

Bratty, I'm pretty sure, if those are my only two choices. Because the name of the tribe was Haida, not Bradi. I don't know where Bradi came from. (Sounds like another mistake by the gang that did the close captioning. Why they didn't refer to the written scripts is beyond me.)

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Vanity writes...

I have been reading Macbeth and Demona responses and the above mentioned for "High Noon" where questions were asked why Macbeth didn't feel the pain when Elisa and Demona where in combat. And I think people are putting too much emphasis on the fact that Macbeth could prepare for the blows. Couldn't it be that, and if you watch the fight scene; Elisa didn't really "hurt" Demona enough to evoke the spell? Granted Demona ran head-first into a statue but that might not of hurt too much.

Greg responds...

A combination of all of the above -- including that we screwed up a bit.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Sapphire writes...

In the episode high noon Elisa was waiting for her gargoyles to return because it is nearly dawn and she was worried for their safety but instead the only gargoyle that came around was Demona, Demona transformed into a human when the sun came up but when downstairs and hailed a cab. My question is was Demona carrying any money with her when she got into the cab or did she just got out when the ride was over and not pay at all?

Greg responds...

She was probably carrying money. Or she made Macbeth pay.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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Cassandra writes...

Cassandra writes...
Since stroking hair is gargoyle equilvant to a kiss, all the times Goliath touched Elisa's hair was a kiss? And how long would it take him to get used to kissing with lips?

Just feeling a trifle silly with that thought. But I seem to remember Goliath touching her hair fondly before they noticed or decided to act on the feelings they have for each other.

Greg responds...

Kissing is special, particularly romantic kissing. I'm not sure one wants to "get used to it" ever. It will always be special to Goliath.

And yes, everytime he touched her hair in any intimate way (as opposed to by accident or incidentally) it was the basic equivalent of a kiss. But by the way, it wasn't often.

recorded on 02-15-01

Okay, to clarify what I was talking about I think I was remembering the end of "Deadly Force". Goliath brushes Elisa's hair back when he tells her to sleep.

I didn't mean "getting used to it" to equal "become blaise about it". More like kissing is a feels-great-still-weird-but-I-like-it situation and Goliath would feel more comfortable with gargoyle display's of affection.

I know they're both mature adults and both of them realize there is going to be a lot of compromising and explaining in their relationship. It's just a quirky idea that popped in my head.

Greg responds...

And an interesting one. But yes, that Deadly Force moment was to Goliath, a kiss equivalent. Not necessarily a romantic kiss. But a caring one.

Response recorded on March 13, 2001

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matt writes...

in "The Gathering" when Goliath and co. arrived in New York what happened to the Avalon Skiff? did it sink as Arthur's skiff had done in London? if the just left the skiff in the lake or river could anyone have gotten in it and accidently gone to Avalon?

Greg responds...

It sank. But even if it hadn't, you need to know the incantation to get to Avalon.

Response recorded on March 08, 2001

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Durax writes...

City of Stone scenelet>> When Gil crushed the rose, I thought this was to tel the audience that, the scars on his face did more than damage his looks. I thought he had lost his sense of smell too. In my mind this provided even greater cause for him to grow more and more embittered against Demona. I don't think this is what you were intending though, not anymore.

Greg responds...

Hmmm. Interesting. Maybe I wasn't intending it. But maybe it's still true. Hmmm.

Response recorded on March 08, 2001

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matt writes...

Faieq, Goliath said, "I grow tired of this, take whats left of your men and begone!" i think he meant he was tired of that particular battle and i doubt there had been previous encounters with Hakon.

Greg responds...

Yeah. That sounds more like it.

Thanks, matt.

Response recorded on March 08, 2001

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Faieq writes...

In Awakening Part one, the Vikings or at least Hakon, are convinced that the gargoyles are just stone statues. This suggests that this is the first time Hakon has attacked Castle Wyvern. But when Goliath awakens he says something like, "I grow tired of these attacks." That means that the attack was only a middle of a series of attacks by the Vikings. Was the battle at the beggining of Awakening part one, the vikings first battle with Castle Wyvern. Or had another party of Vikings been attacking Wyvern and had moved on, leaving Hakon's army in charge of that area.

Greg responds...

Well, Hakon had never been there before. But you're quoting something that Goliath said in the MIDDLE of the battle. So he may have been talking about the fact that Hakon's crowd was still fighting. Or he may have been refering to the fact that Wyvern's isolated location often made them targets of attack. From other Vikings, etc.

Response recorded on March 08, 2001

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matt writes...

when Rory/Cuchalin said, "I had a dog like him once." (talking about Bronx) did he mean that the ancient Cuchalin had a garg beast or just an ordinary dog that was a loyal friend and warrior like Bronx is? sorry if you've been asked this before, but i couldn't find it in the archives...

Greg responds...

Garg beast.

And I don't think this one has been asked before. Good question.

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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matt writes...

how long had Demona and Thailog been a couple when Goliath arrived in Paris? how long had Demona and Macbeth been in Paris?

Greg responds...

The following dates are tentative, based on my current reworking of the timeline -- still a rework in progress.

Demona and Macbeth arrived in Paris on 1-1-96.

Demona first encountered Thailog on 1-2-96.

Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx arrived in Paris on 1-21-96.

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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Mel. Celestial writes...

HiIIII!!!!!
1. Okay, so G&E's relationship is the only bridge, and Clan Manhattan didn't mind it at all; how do the other clans around the world might approve of it ?
2. That priceless look on Hudson's face(The Awakening eps.3), what was he thinking about those two(G&E, of course!), and did he find it appaling at first?

Greg responds...

1. Is this a reference to a previous response? If so, I've forgotten what we were talking about.

2. I'd say he was initially non-plussed. But I think he thought it healthy that Goliath was at least making a connection to a human.

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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Siren writes...

I didn;t see this in the archieves and was just curious...
In Eye of the Beholder, whose idea was it to dress Elisa as Belle from Beauty and the Beast. It just seemed too perfect and at such a good time in the 1st season to do so.
Also a slightly related question...Where did Goliath learn how to ballroom dance? Demona just doesn't seem the type to have done so before 998AD ;)

Greg responds...

That was my idea, I believe.

And Goliath didn't really need to know how to "ballroom dance". He just needed to be strong enough to hold Elisa and move to the music. It wasn't a contest.

Response recorded on March 07, 2001

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matt writes...

when Goliath and Hudson return to Wyvern after the massacre is it me or did Hudson seem to take the whole thing pretty well all things considered? while Goliath goes into an uncontrollable but understandable rage, Hudson just makes some remarks about betrayal and bow strings having been cut. i don't want to say that Hudson had more reason to be upset than Goliath, but Hudson did have several generations of rookery children murdered and many friends that he has known most his life killed in the massacre, he doesn't scream in rage like Goliath or cry in sadness. did his long life in this "world of fear" and the death of his mate better prepare him for the death of his people than Goliath? Hudson just seemed really mellow about the massacre...

Greg responds...

For starters, I think he was in shock. But we all handle tragedy differently. He fell back on his training.

And it's certainly possible that past tragedies may have better prepared him.

But I hardly think his response was "mellow".

Response recorded on March 02, 2001

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matt writes...

Greg, about what Titania whispered to Fox: you know what she said, right? so if we just started asking you "Did Titania say:......." it wouldn't be considered submiting ideas, right?

Greg responds...

Yes. It would.

The fact that I know already, changes nothing. I can't prove that I know already.

And if one of you should guess right, than that person could get pissed if he or she thinks I stole the line.

Response recorded on March 02, 2001

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matt writes...

a stupid question, really:
i was reading your ramble on "Awakening 4" and you mentioned that the dog Elisa puts the transmitter on (Rover) is seen in the next scene as a puppy on a dog food commercial that Hudson is watching. this dog was on tv and now is scrounging for trash... was this your intent or were you just making a joke in your ramble? if the puppy in the commercial did grow up to be "Rover" would that dog show up again, seeing as how there is alot of foreshadowing in gargs? by the way, what did the commandos do with "Rover" when they found the transmitter on him?
you should put this post into a category called, "You know you are obsessed with Gargoyles when..." :)

Greg responds...

Mostly, I was kidding.

As for the Commandos, I'm sure they let the dog go. They're goons, not monsters.

Response recorded on March 01, 2001

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Adam writes...

Okay, I won't ask you what Titania whispered to Fox at the end of The Gathering. But the last time I watched the episode, I thought I heard a kiss at the end of whatever it was she said. So did Titania kiss Fox after she said whatever it was she said? Of am I just hearing things?

Greg responds...

It's been awhile since I've seen it. I honestly don't remember.

Response recorded on March 01, 2001

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matt writes...

in "Awakening" right before Goliath asks to have the sleep spell put on him, he asks the Princess to take care of the eggs. why was she thinking that Goliath was asking her this? why wasn't she confused thinking that Goliath could do a better job of raising the Hatchlings than her? did she figure that Goliath was going to ask for the sleep spell? she seemed surprised when he asked. i know she put her heart into raising these children and has been a great mother for them but i was really surprised that she wasn't scared to death when Goliath asked her this life-long favor, i would have been, what a responsibility!

Greg responds...

I'm not saying she wasn't intimidated, but she felt she could not deny him anything, under the circumstances.

Response recorded on February 26, 2001

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Chapter XXVII: "Outfoxed"

Time to Ramble...

My three year old son Ben watched the opening titles for about the five hundredth time. On the one hand, he made the point that it was getting dull seeing this same opening. He wanted me to fast-forward to the actual story.

On the other hand, he spent the time reviewing "the rules". How the gargs turn to stone during the day. How Goliath is the leader. Etc.

One thing we always cheated on was how Fortress-2 landed. There it is on the ground awaiting it's maiden voyage, and I just don't see any landing gear.

Vogel is introduced. This is another thing where I had to carefully explain my long-term intent behind the screen in order to get a model for the character that really looked like Owen but wasn't his twin. I remember a lot of people on the Disney Afternoon mailing list reacting negatively to Preston in this episode. Like he was a feeble imitation of Owen. Like we didn't know how to do any other kind of executive assistant. I was simultaneously amused and annoyed by those kind of comments. So now I'm curious. What was your initial reaction to Vogel? And what do you think of him now?

As usual, Travis has old-school attitude when interviewing his subjects. I like that. Makes him more of a character and not just a reporter place-holder.

Fox in casual clothes. With a very casual, yet strangely intense attitude. "I know what happens next," Fox says to David.

My six year old daughter Erin asked, "Why is she watching [Travis' report] like that?" She could tell something was up there.

And in fact, like UPGRADE, this was another episode where we were intentionally trying to show that Fox was David's equal. We show it physically in their martial arts work out. And we show it by giving her a ruthless and complex plot to take Cyberbiotics. In fact, in this episode, when you add in the fact that David is clearly in the dark about her pregnancy test, she seems to be a little equaler than he is.

Fortress-2 takes off. And Goliath sends us into flashback. This is flat-out padding. For some reason, though the script is the same basic length as any of our scripts, this one timed out short after story-boarding was done. (Most of my stories time out too long.) So we added this flashback. I think it was a mistake. It kills the stories momentum, and we already had the sequence later where Renard shows all the important scenelets to Goliath. Those become incredibly redundant. When you add in the "Previously on Gargoyles" opening, it was just too much.

Elisa reveals the show's Hill Street Blues influence by telling Goliath to "be careful out there."

Goliath gets attacked by cybots. As noted, any individual cybot is no match for him. But they have strength in numbers. I wanted to show that Goliath can still kick some ass when motivated. So the cybots shoot at him. And his only response is "That. Stings." Very intense. Unfortunately, I think sound-wise the line gets buried.

And that's a general problem with the episode. On a technical level this just wasn't one of our best. The animation isn't awful, but it's mediocre. Goliath's size relationship gets screwed up here and there. (Particularly in the brig sequences.) The story's padded by flashbacks. Our normally great sound team, didn't do the most inspiring job on this one either. It just generally feels like one that got away from us.

I still think there's some great stuff in it. And the revelation of Fox's pregnancy actually makes it something of a landmark (both for our series and for animated series in general), but the execution never quite lived up to its potential. Oh, well.

CONTINUITY & INTRIGUE

Did anyone remember Cyberbiotics before this ep? Had you ever wondered who Xanatos was stealing from in the pilot? We knew that Cyberbiotics abandoned their underground base, which became the home of the Mutates. Now we were rebuilding the air fortress and revealing that the CYberbiotics Tower is still in business.

Also, Renard mentions Gen-U-Tech. And the revelation that Sevarius and Burnett used to work for Cyberbiotics. Of course, Renard thinks that Xanatos stole Sevarius and Owen away. We know better. We knew even then that Sevarius is much better suited to work for a man like Xanatos than Renard. And of course, now we know why Owen was Xanatos-bound as well. But what did you guys think of that minor revelation at the time?

Renard's opinion of Xanatos is probably colored by his relationship to his daughter: "And that's the least that viper has stolen from me." Did you stop at that moment to consider what that meant and what he meant by the "My Anastasia. My Janine." line? Did anyone (from Renard's name, if nothing else) guess that Fox was his daughter, before the tag? Who did you think Anastasia and Janine were at that time? Or did Goliath's follow up line, "My angel of the night." distract you from considering these questions?

At this point, just before the Janine line, Erin (who has seen these before, but not recently) remembered: "That's Fox's daddy!"

Goliath has some cool lines here too. "I belong to no one." "I serve no master."

And Renard (voiced by Robert Culp to perfection) has some great lines too: "Not my fault, not my fault. You sound like every human employee I've ever FIRED." and "Take some responsibility."

What was fun for me, although maybe for no one else, was (a) to get some hard thoughts about both the need and the difficulty of maintaining personal integrity up onto the screen and (b) doing that by lecturing to Goliath, arguably one of the most "integrous" characters I've ever written. (b) served (a), by showing that even Goliath can be prone to slipping.

The thing is that integrity really matters to me. And yet, I don't know how much of it I exercise in my own life. I really do try. But it's so hard. And not because I'm a dishonest person, but more because I'm lazy. It's easier to shift blame, to tell white lies, etc. The alternative takes effort and vigilance. I think the rewards are immense, even if the costs are too. But I ain't kidding myself about the difficulty.

The martial arts scene. Reminiscent of the scene from the Edge where Owen toppled David. Here we hinted even more strongly that Fox is Renard's daughter. David is basically giving her permission to back out of the plan, to save face and exit, BEFORE she destroys her father. It's not that David really cares about Halcyon. I think he's thinking about his relationship to his own father. David likes to believe (at this stage in the series) that he's evolved beyond the need for a parental relationship. But "Vows" sort of demonstrates that his relationship with Petros is much more complex than that. David still needs parental approval and is somewhat amazed (at least subconsciously) that Fox does not. Again, in this episode, Fox is more than his equal.

And now the doctor calls with test results. David shows legitimate fear here for a moment. He's not thinking pregnancy. He's worried maybe she's sick or something. She enjoys toying with him. Maybe she's just in a mood. But her armor is on in force in this ep. We won't really get INSIDE Fox until "The Gathering" two-parter.

Finally, Goliath acknowledges his crime: "I was wrong." Cary had this great line for Renard: "I'm glad you're gargoyle enough to admit it."

Robert Culp and Peter Scolari were an interesting pair as Renard and Vogel. Culp was tough in the booth. Very precise. Very clear ideas about how he wanted to play the character. Tougher on his performance than Jamie and I were. And the results show.

Peter was a dream to work with. We spent an hour talking after the recording (about Busom Buddies, mostly). He's an incredibly nice guy. And he picked up the character right away. Despite the fact that we didn't have Jeff Bennett there to do a little Owen for him. He just got it.

Until the end, Vogel really plays Renard in this. He knows how much Renard hates whining blame-shifters, so he's constantly saying things like "You can place the blame on me if you like." in order to defuse any of Renard's suspicions.

But in a more subtle way, Renard is unwittingly playing upon Vogel as well. He doesn't intrude on Vogel's phone calls. He treats him with respect and gives him credit ("You and I built this ship together"). Insists that Vogel save the people in the tower, even if it means Renard's own life. We can see that Vogel was willing to take Fox's money for a bit of corporate espionage. But Vogel is not a killer. (It's important to see that he views Goliath as a creature.) This partially explains his turnaround at the end. (Which some people complained about.) All along he's been trying to get Renard to GET OFF THE SHIP. But Renard forces his hand. And when push comes to shove, Vogel likes Renard too much to see him die. "Mr. Vogel, I knew you wouldn't let me down." "You have that effect on people." And then Goliath basically bluffs him at the end there into confessing, screwing up their relationship.

But Goliath fixes it again. His last discussion with Renard sets up the reconciliation between them that must have taken place before "Golem".

At any rate, it's also nice to see Goliath make a NEW friend. This was important, because that has always been Goliath's goals. To make friends with humans on his own terms. Every once in a while, we had to show it working. Couldn't just be ONLY Elisa forever.

Ben weighed in at this point and said, "Daddy, I love Xanatos. And I love Fox." Of course, Ben and Erin dressed up as David and Fox at the last Gathering. In fact they dressed up in the martial arts outfits from this episode. Thus the affinity. I once played Theseus in the play THE WARRIOR'S HUSBAND. And Edmund in KING LEAR. It gave me an on-going affinity for both characters and awakened my interest in "The Bastard" archetype.

Now the tag. I'm usually pretty proud of our tags. They often advance the overall story as much as the entire episode. But this is one of my favorites. "Hello, Janine." "Hello, daddy." Was anyone ready for that? And her attitude: "Almost got you that time, didn't I?" The whole sense that Fox is in all this just for kicks. She's not as acquisitive as her husband. He'd always take the path of LEAST resistance to a goal. If Renard would give Janine the company, X would suggest she ask for it. But she doesn't care about the company. ONLY the game. X likes the game. But he's about RESULTS. All established in one little scene.

And of course that slick little pregnancy revelation. I think that was one of the most revolutionary and flat-out subversive things we did on the whole show. Was anyone ready for that? We had hinted at it with the "genetically compatible" line in "Eye of the Beholder" and obvioulsy with "It's your doctor... with test results." But I think it was quite the shocker.

And Fox is so tough. Pregnant and back on the hang-glider. I love it.

Okay, I'm done. You're turn. Ramble away...


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One writes...

Is there any particular reason Desdemona divided herself into three versions of herself (one with black hair, blond, and white) in "High Noon"... I just thought there might be relation between this and the fact the weird sisters were in the episode manipulatining MacBeth and Demona.

Greg responds...

Des didn't do it. She opened herself up to possession and the Weird Sisters did it.

Response recorded on February 22, 2001

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Memo on "Outfoxed"...

In anticipation of watching "Outfoxed" anyday now, I'm going to go ahead and post the memo I wrote to Cary Bates, after he turned in his outline for that episode, originally titled, "After the Fox".

WEISMAN 11-27-94

Notes on "After the Fox" Outline...

GENERAL
Well, one of the advantages of having you as one of my story editors is that I can be brutally honest. We got some problems here. The main one being that the story doesn't get going in earnest until the last scene of Act Two. We're horribly padded here. Normally, I would give this back to you for a second draft outline, but -- my fault -- I didn't read it in time. So I'll beat it out here.

FOX vs. RENARD
First off, let's make Renard the last name. I know I said it was o.k. to make Renard the first name, but the more I thought about it, the more I didn't want Fox's only connection to the Renard/Fox name to be that it was her father's first name. I don't think she could admit to herself that she was borrowing anything from him. So let's make her given name Janine Renard. He still calls her Janine. She rejects that and has her name legally changed to her nom de guerre: Fox. (Like Cher or Madonna, it's just the one word. Remember, she was a performer.) The "Fox" is the part of herself that she believes in. The irony, of course, is that the name did come from her father.

I don't think Fox consciously hates her father. I don't think she consciously admits to having feelings that could cloud her judgment. There's no vengeance kick here. No line of dialogue where she says she wants to see him suffer or that she only saved his life so she can continue to torture him. That all may be subconsciously true, but if so, she doesn't realize it. Remember, she's Xanatos' perfect mate. Neither her nor her husband get that emotional. They enjoy the game for its own sake. Playing it against her father may give it a special tang, but from her point of view, there's only one reason to do this: Cyberbiotics. She wants it, so she decides to take it. If it wasn't worth having, she wouldn't have bothered.

CYBERBIOTICS
The investor scenario doesn't work. Just because the investors aren't killed, doesn't mean these five terrorized guys are now gonna invest. The damage is done. The stock price will still fall and Cyberbiotics will still belong to Fox by close of business tomorrow.

The solution, I believe, is to change the location. Renard has just rebuilt the CYBERBIOTICS AIR FORTRESS. He's determined to prove that it's safe and effective. It's a corporate icon, like the Good Year Blimp -- and the public does think it's really cool -- but it's still not the smartest investment. It's hybris. Worse... it's Euro-Disney. Renard's had to invest way too much to rebuild it. If it's destroyed so soon after it's reconstruction, Cyberbiotics will be bankrupt and easy prey for Fox. This'll tie in nicely with Goliath's growing sense that he owes Renard a debt. Goliath helped destroy the first Air Fortress. Now, he must save the second one. And if you save the ship, you save the company from Fox.

INTEGRITY: GARGOYLE vs. HUMAN
For once, this should not be an issue. Renard accuses Goliath of not having as much integrity as humans do. But Renard doesn't believe humans have very much integrity -- that's why he's automated his operations -- so we're arguing the wrong premise. Integrity is not the province of either race. Deep down, Goliath may have a vague prejudice that gargoyles are generally more honest than humans, but in his head he knows that his race does not have a monopoly on integrity. Thanks to the events of our pilot, Renard may have a general mistrust of gargoyles, but that's not the point he should be making. Renard firmly believes that integrity is an absolute. You have it. Or you don't. Cut and Dry. Black and White. He's got it. Most humans don't, including Xanatos and his daughter. Machines can be programmed with absolutes. People can't. So he's populating his world with machines. His assumption is that Goliath is no better than Xanatos and that all of the creature's protestations about being duped are nothing more than whining excuses. Will Goliath take responsibility for his actions or won't he? Let's not distract this important theme, with issues of race.

Though I loved the line: "You're gargoyle enough to admit it."

VOGEL
Who is this guy exactly? Security man? Computer programmer? Born-again? Was he hired on a project basis to complete the automation? Is he helping Fox because he knew Renard was going to fire him? Has Vogel automated all of Renard's operations or just the security? If it's just the security, than what are they securing? Why does he repent? Basically, the character is coming across as very vague and contradictory. We have to clean this up.

Let's also make sure we fit Vogel into our theme. He is corrupted by Fox. Ultimately, Renard will use Vogel as another example of why humans cannot be trusted. But Goliath will point out that the cybots were just as corruptible, while incapable of experiencing a change of heart, as Goliath has had.

THE TITLE
"After the Fox"... I don't get it. Am I missing something?

BEAT OUTLINE
ACT ONE
1. Open quietly with FOX at the EYRIE BUILDING. She turns on the evening news. TRAVIS MARSHALL is on the air, reporting from JFK or LaGuardia or wherever. It is the Maiden Voyage of FORTRESS-2, the CYBERBIOTICS airship. Marshall had hoped to get an interview with the reclusive head of Cyberbiotics, HALCYON RENARD, but has to settle for Renard's right-hand man VOGEL. Fox watches all this with some interest.

2. Out at the airfield, Marshall, a tough journalist, questions the wisdom and expense of Fortress-2, particularly since FORTRESS-ONE crashed into the river last year. Vogel counters that the cause of that crash was an act of corporate espionage that was only successful thanks to human error on the part of Fortress-One's crew. Fortress-2 is fully automated, run by patented CYBOTS. Human error is not possible. No humans aboard at all? After this test flight, human scientists will occupy it's laboratories to research new wonders, but there is no human crew, except for Vogel and Mr. Renard, himself. Marshall asks if it's true that Renard has invested all of his personal fortune into Fortress-2, and that if it doesn't perform both he and Cyberbiotics will be ruined. Vogel has no comment on that, and heads inside the ship.

3. We follow Vogel, as he heads for the command center. Everything is automated, and there are little Cybots everywhere. All with very specific functions. No waste. At the command center, Vogel contacts Renard in his private office, elsewhere on board. Cut briefly to a shadowed Renard hovering in his ultra-chair, watching Vogel on a vid-screen. Renard gives permission to launch.

4. Fortress-2 launches. Huge turbines and compressors roar. And GOLIATH and ELISA watch from a nearby roof or hilltop. Goliath claims to be here because he is concerned that XANATOS might attempt to attack this ship, just as he tricked Goliath into attacking the first one. But Elisa probably knows that the air fortress is a symbol of Goliath's own guilt -- a guilt that Goliath has yet to come to terms with. Goliath decides to follow the airship, just to be safe.

5. In the air above Manhattan, a cybot alerts Vogel to their pursuer [Goliath]. Vogel informs Renard. Renard says Vogel knows what to do. (It doesn't hurt if we briefly misdirect the audience into thinking that Renard is a villain.)

6. Goliath glides a short distance behind the airship. Suddenly, flying cybots swarm out of a Fortress-2 hold. There're not very big, and they have very simple attack programming. They fire medium strength stun bolts and they miss more often than they hit. Goliath can swat them away easily. Clearly, these cybots don't seem to be on a par with Xanatos' STEEL CLAN. But if results are what counts, they turn out to be superior. There are just too many of the little things. No matter how many Goliath trashes, there are more coming at him. They hover, which Goliath can't do. And eventually, the stun beams add up. Finally, he gets hit with a barrage of them and passes out. Two larger cybots are waiting to catch him and bring him into the airship. (Let's consistently depict the cybots as mono-functional. Each model capable of doing only one thing.)

7. Inside the airship, Goliath regains consciousness in the brig. The bars on the cell might be bendable for Goliath, but he is forced back by Cybot guards with built-in cattle prods. Vogel is there, and a large metal pneumatic door slides open to finally reveal Halcyon Renard. He floats in on his hover chair. He has silver hair and a very sharp mind -- but he is definitely not "robust and vital".
Renard hovers around Goliath, sizing him up. "So this is what the boys at Gen-U-Tech have been up to. Xanatos must be very proud." Goliath responds that he is neither Gen-U-Tech's creation nor Xanatos'. Renard laughs. Goliath demands to know why he is being held prisoner. "Because if you're my prisoner, than I know you can't destroy Fortress-2 for your master." Goliath: "I have no master." "No? Then why did you do this?" Renard flicks a remote button on his chair, and the walls slide back to reveal a large screen. Another button, and video clips from "Awakening, Parts IV and V" show Goliath's participation in the destruction of Fortress-One. Chastened, Goliath tries to explain that he had been duped by Xanatos: "It wasn't my fault." But Renard doesn't let up: "It's not my fault. It's not my fault. You sound like all my human employees. My former human employees. Crush them all together and you couldn't squeeze an ounce of personal integrity from the lot of them. Don't make excuses, creature! Take responsibility for your actions! Stop whining!"
"I DO NOT WHINE," says Goliath, as he rips the bars off his cell and uses them to smash his cybot guards. But Renard doesn't even flinch. "You don't whine, but you also don't hesitate to destroy more of my personal property." He presses another button, and two stun cannons on his chair blast at Goliath until he is knocked out again.
Vogel apologizes. "All my fault, sir. I'll make sure he can't get out of the next cell." We see that Renard respects Vogel for taking the blame. A cybot informs Vogel that he has an incoming personal call. Renard exits, not wanting to impose on Vogel's privacy.
As Cybots drag the unconscious Goliath away, Vogel turns to a vid-screen and activates it. Reveal Fox on the other end. Is it safe to talk? Mr. Renard always respects my privacy. Is Vogel ready to sabotage Fortress-2? He is if the money's been deposited in his Swiss Bank Account. All taken care of. Vogel: "Then we're ready. And the good news is..." He looks at Goliath. "We've got a perfect candidate to take the blame."

ACT TWO
8. A short time later, Goliath awakens shackled to a wall in a new cell, with MUCH thicker bars, and even more cybot guards. Renard is there in his hover chair, brooding. If only Goliath could make him understand that Xanatos is to blame. But Renard: "Oh, I have no doubt of that. You aren't the first poor soul Xanatos has corrupted. Owen Burnett. Anton Sevarius. They both were Cyberbiotics employees... and they're the least of what that viper has stolen from me. I've no doubt he was behind the attack and no reason to doubt that he tricked you into participating." But if that's so, than why does Renard hold Goliath responsible? "Someone has to. And you obviously don't." It doesn't matter to Renard whose idea it was. It doesn't matter whether Goliath believed he was doing the right thing. Now he knows the truth. What's he going to do about it? Goliath grimly rattles his chains, then says, "I think a better question might be, what are you going to do about it."

9. Xanatos and Fox are working on their Kung Fu at the Eyrie Building. Make a point of showing that they are evenly matched. While they fight, they talk casually. Xanatos: "Weren't you mounting a hostile take-over of Cyberbiotics today? Your not having second thoughts about taking it from old man Renard?" Before she can answer, OWEN enters to alert Fox of a phone call from her physician. When Xanatos looks concern, she misinterprets and tells him not to worry: Cyberbiotics will be hers before morning. And as she says hello into the phone, we cut...

10. In the command center, Vogel instructs a random cybot to shut down for repairs. When it does, he opens it up and installs a chip into it's programming matrix. Then he reactivates the cybot, but when it turns on, an arc of electricity flashes around it, briefly. Vogel taps it on the head. Off you go.

11. Goliath and Renard are still talking practical philosophy. Renard has been brooding over the question of what to do with Goliath. He's trying to decide what the honorable thing would be. He'll probably just turn him over to the authorities. Goliath is aghast. "Look at me, human. Is that an equitable punishment? Was my crime against you heinous enough to justify turning me into a laboratory specimen?" Renard smiles. "Well, we're making progress. You've finally acknowledged that you committed a crime."

12. Elsewhere on the ship, the first cybot that Vogel infected passes another cybot. The same arc of electricity shoots out of the second 'bot. Then both 'bots move off and infect two more...and so on... and so on... and so on...
On Vogel's read-out screen, the percentage of cybots infected keeps rising. 13%... 27%... 32%...

13. Goliath eyes Renard. Almost despite himself, Goliath is beginning to regard the man with a grudging respect. "All right. I've admitted I was wrong. No more excuses. Now what?" But Renard doesn't have any easy answers for him. "Integrity is not easy. It is a daily struggle. A costly struggle. If you only knew what it cost me. My Anastasia. My Janine." Goliath lowers his head, "...my angel..." Renard looks at him closely. "So you do know." Goliath speaks slowly: "I know I owe you a great debt for what I did a year ago. And a greater debt for the education I received tonight. If the text was not new to me, it was at least... worth revisiting."
Now during this entire conversation, a cybot enters and approaches a guard cybot by the door. The guard cybot is infected, and approaches the other cybot by the door and infects it. Neither Goliath nor Renard notice until the cybots flanking Goliath's cell are infected and the arcing electricity catches the attention of both.

14. On Vogel's screen the percentage goes up from 99% to 100%, and "Right on cue" he gets a vid-call from Renard. He affects panic. Somehow that creature in the brig has infected every cybot on board with a computer virus. Renard says, "Nonsense. I've been sitting here talking with him the whole time." Vogel doesn't know how Goliath did it. But the Cybots are not responding to commands. They've set Fortress-2 on a collision course with the CYBERBIOTICS TOWER. They must abandon ship and activate the emergency self-destruct mechanism or both installations will be destroyed, and Cyberbiotics will be history. Renard is beside himself: If Fortress-2 is destroyed than Cyberbiotics is ruined anyway. Vogel shakes his head, flips a switch and a 10 minute time counter appears on the vid-screen. "I'm sorry, sir. You can place the blame on me if you must, but now we have no choice. At our present rate of speed we will hit the tower in ten minutes. You have nine minutes to meet me at the escape pod. After that I will jettison, and use my access code to destroy Fortress-2."

ACT THREE
15. Goliath offers to help Renard try to save the ship. Renard is so furious, he's half ready to believe that Goliath was responsible. But Goliath knows that Renard doesn't really believe that. Goliath helped destroy Fortress-One. "Let me help to save Fortress-2." Renard agrees and presses a button on his chair which releases Goliath. The Cybot guards interpret this as an escape attempt. Renard cannot override them. But between Goliath and Renard's hover-chair, they manage to destroy the cybot guards. They leave the brig. The seconds tick away.

16. Vogel monitors them from the comfortable escape pod. He can't believe the old fool is going to try to save the ship. Why doesn't he just admit defeat and head for the escape pod? Vogel's made sure that route is clear of cybots. He'll just have to discourage anymore heroics. He orders all the cybots to kill the creature and drive Renard toward the pod. (Note: he does NOT want to kill Renard.)

17. Now every cybot on the ship is against Goliath and Renard. The little flying ones that knocked Goliath out in the first place. The big ones that carried him inside. More cattle-prod guard 'bots. Zippy little messenger 'bots. Maintenance 'bots. All of them. The good news is that in the airship's small corridors, there are only so many that can go at our heroes at once. But the situation is intolerable. They can't destroy the 'bots one at a time. They need to cut off power to all the cybots at once. And it's possible. There's a power station at the center of the ship that transmits power to all the cybots. But if they destroy that then they destroy the cybots that pilot the ship. There won't be time to get to the power station, shut it off and then go to the bridge. They have to split up. And time is ticking away. And the Tower gets closer and closer.

18. Intercut between Goliath fighting his way to the power station; Renard fighting his way to the bridge, and Vogel getting very nervous in the escape pod. [Turns out that even Vogel didn't know how much the old guy had grown on him. Destroying his empire is one thing. But Vogel is no killer. He doesn't want Renard's death on his conscience. And/or he had explicit instructions from Fox that Renard not be killed.] And time is ticking away. And the Tower gets closer and closer.

19. Goliath gets to the power station and destroys it. All the 'bots shut down. But time is ticking away. And the Tower gets closer and closer.

20. With the cybots down, Renard is able to zoom the rest of the way to the bridge quickly. He puts Fortress-2 on manual override, but time has passed the nine minute mark. The tower looms right in front of him and navigation and the helm are located on two different consoles. At the last second, Vogel appears and between the two of them, they are able to turn the ship away from the tower and save it.

21. Aftermath between Renard and Goliath. At first, Renard is bitter. Vogel has confessed his betrayal. Further proof that the human species is devoid of integrity. But Goliath disagrees. Vogel's example hardly proves the wisdom of putting one's trust in single-minded automatons. Automatons are tools. They know nothing of honor or betrayal. They do what they are programmed to do. But a living being knows nothing of programming. A living being must choose. And, ultimately, Vogel chose honor.
Renard lets all that sink in. He's got a lot to think about, but one thing he knows is that Goliath has paid his debt. A ship for a ship. Renard: "We are even." But Goliath: "No... We are friends."

22. Goliath soars off into the night. And he doesn't notice a small hang-glider land on the now defenseless airship behind him. The newcomer abandons the glider and tosses a cloudy ball against the metal hull. The ball shatters and a corrosive substance is released that quickly burns a hole in the hull. The stranger enters the airship, and as she does, we finally get a look at her. It is Fox.

23. Back in Renard's office. He sits in his chair. Quietly. Fox enters behind him, and for a moment we think she's there as an assassin. But he seems to be expecting her. "Hello, Janine," he says. "Hello, Daddy," she replies. "I almost got you that time." "Yes, but why? I built this company for you. I'd have given it to you by now if you hadn't married that villain Xanatos. I'd still probably give it to you if you just stood up and asked me for it honestly." "Oh, Daddy. You and your integrity. Asking for it wouldn't be any fun at all." Renard: "And fun is more important to you than honor. I can't understand that." Fox: "Well, maybe you'll have better luck with the next generation." Renard: "What?" Fox: "That's right, Daddy. You're going to be a grandfather."
FADE OUT.


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"High Noon" story memo.

Late 1994. Writer Lydia Marano and Story Editor Brynne Chandler Reaves had turned in an outline entitled "Thieves in the Night". This memo and beat outline was my response to their work.

And before you ask... I have no memory of "the Zompanos". Perhaps a pre-cursor to the Sopranos? :)

WEISMAN 11-16-94

Notes on "Thieves in the Night" Outline...

GENERAL
The main problem for me here is the first act. From a plotting standpoint, everything with the Zompanos is largely immaterial to what follows. As with the outline for "The Mirror", the action of this story only begins at the end of Act One, when Mac and Demona stage their first attempt to steal stuff. We have to move that event up to the beginning of the act.

FOCUS ON COLDSTONE
Let's fool the audience into thinking he is the focus of the whole thing. It's a Coldstone story that turns out to be the set-up for something more dangerous. (Avalon.) To accomplish this, let's misdirect even more than we are.

MATT
I've basically cut Matt out of this story. I didn't like doing it, because I thought you gave him and Elisa a lot of nice character stuff. I even added some stuff to what you had done -- stuff that I also wound up cutting. The story was just too crowded and unwieldy with him there. (And thematically, the Elisa/Matt arc was just slightly off point.) Every time I worked on a scene, Matt got in the way. I wouldn't mind revealing just a little to him here, but there didn't seem to be any way to reveal "just a little". (Matt's not the type to just let things go or to settle for a partial explanation. And he's certainly shown a willingness to stick close to Elisa even when she's made it clear he's not welcome.)

I also would not be opposed to revealing the whole truth to Matt, but this story seemed to be too complicated to reveal just the simple truth about Goliath and company. We'd also have to tell him about Macbeth, Coldstone and maybe even Demona. It was just too much. But don't lose track of these ideas for Matt. We'll get to them all eventually.

THEME: HIGH NOON
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing." Or put another way, "You can't crawl into a hole, no matter how nice the hole is, while others suffer." Obviously, this is Othello's arc to a tee.

I'm also giving it to Elisa. And since this is a lesson that Elisa really has already internalized 100%, I'm putting her through the wringer, so that in her exhaustion, she can have a moment of weakness, a crisis point where she can consciously reaffirm her belief. It's high noon, she tells herself. Is she gonna fight the good fight or not?

To a lesser extent, Goliath and the gargoyles reaffirm this belief every time they knowingly walk into a trap. Because the only alternative -- to do nothing -- is unacceptable to them.

CLOCK TOWER
We can't destroy the clock tower or even "all but destroy" it without attracting considerable attention from the precinct full of cops downstairs. A thunderstorm can cover a lot of noise, I suppose, but not extensive damage or explosions that might shake the building.

BACKSTORY
I don't want to count on the fact that our audience will have seen either "City of Stone, Part Four", "Legion" or "The Mirror". I don't want to be ham-fisted in our exposition, but I do want to make sure that we find a way to reveal that when we last saw Demona and Macbeth, they were in the custody of the Weird Sisters. Also that Coldstone has three personalities due to the fact that he was created from pieces of three separate gargoyles. And finally, that thanks to Puck's spell, Demona is now human during the day -- a situation which pissed her off at first, until she discovered the benefits of it.

COLDSTONE'S HEAD
The "tentacle vines" and the "vortex" were all the result of the computer virus. I think we can assume by this time that the virus has wiped out all programming, including itself. All that is left inside is the personality of the three gargoyles and whatever fantasy they create inside their mutual mind.

SHARED PAIN
Don't forget that Macbeth and Demona feel each other's pain. And also, as you had it in the outline, that they each share the opinion that the other is a royal pain.

BEAT OUTLINE
ACT ONE
1. Prologue: Coldstone's Mind. Othello and Desdemona enjoy an idyllic life in a virtual reality fantasy world that they've created. Electricity water-falls. A circuit-shaped moon. Whatever. They know it's not real, but it's close enough. They are together.
They are also aware of Iago's presence hovering darkly on the outskirts of their paradise, but he no longer has the power to come between them. They are content to let him hover.

2. Clock Tower -- Shortly before Dawn. Elisa has just ended a long night's shift and is stopping upstairs (via the broom closet) to see Goliath & co. before she heads home for some much needed sleep. Brooklyn is helping Hudson and Broadway with their reading lessons. Lexington is off in a corner working on Coldstone. Lex has opened up a metal plate on Coldstone, to get access to the circuits inside. He's hooked his laptop up to it and is checking things out. Goliath asks: is there any real hope of bringing him (her, them) back? As far as Lex can figure, the computer virus that attacked Coldstone has wiped its programming clean. Nothing's functioning, but nothing's broken. It's a blank slate. Even the virus is gone. After it finished attacking Coldstone's programming, it devoured itself. But none of that should have affected the souls of the three gargoyles that were used to create Coldstone. They were put there by magic, not programming. They've got to be in there somewhere. If Lex could devise a simple operating program, they might wake up. Well, he'll work on it some more tomorrow night. The gargoyles take their places. Sun rises. They get stoned.

3. Police Precinct -- Minutes later. Elisa's heading out the door, saying good-bye to Officer Morgan, who's also heading home. Coming in, is a uniformed female cop with red hair, pushing a felon who's got his cap pulled low over his eyes and his hands handcuffed in front of him. [Obviously, this is the human Demona and Macbeth.] Elisa pauses, and watches them head into the building and out of view. They both looked vaguely familiar, but she can't place either of them. Does Morgan know them? No, but the cop is obviously a rookie. Why else would she have cuffed the guy with his hands in front of him? Especially a guy that big.
Yeah, someone should tell her. Elisa heads back in. She spots them heading up the stairs. Sees them going around a corner. Always a step behind. Finally she sees them head into the broom closet. Horrified by what that might mean, she draws her gun, and follows them up into the clock tower.

4. Despite her precautions, she is ultimately jumped by the "felon" and the "cop". There's a struggle. And Elisa recognizes Macbeth, just before she is stunned into unconsciousness by Macbeth's lightning gun. Sweet dreams, he says. And the screen goes black.

5. Inside Macbeth's Airship - Twenty minutes later. Macbeth and the "cop" are flying along. The "cop" is angry that Macbeth wouldn't let her kill the gargoyles and especially Elisa, once and for all. Macbeth won't apologize for having a code of honor. But he's in a good mood. Their stolen cargo is safely stowed away in back, plus they got away without anybody else spotting them. "So lighten up... Demona!"

6. Clock Tower - Several hours later. Elisa comes to. She feels lousy, but she's basically all right. How long was she out? She checks her watch. Wow, most of the day. She looks around. Coldstone is gone!! Obviously taken by Macbeth and that woman. But how did they get him out of here in broad daylight? They couldn't just walk him out the door or even fly Macbeth's airship in to pick them all up without somebody noticing. Still, how they succeeded in doing it isn't as important as the fact that they did. She slumps into Hudson's recliner. "Might as well stop talking to myself and wait. It'll be sunset soon."

7. Macbeth's Mansion - Just before sundown. Human Demona is waiting for the sun to go down. Macbeth's a bit impatient. He thinks that despite her appearance, Demona's still thinking like a gargoyle. Why wait for night? Put the disk in now. She refuses. Coldstone doesn't know Macbeth, and wouldn't recognize her in her present form.
The sun goes down. Demona changes from a human into a gargoyle. The process is not without some pain. As she catches her breath, she wryly observes that despite an initial distaste for the human form, she's come to appreciate Puck's gift, although the fact that he made the transformation painful was probably his way of keeping her from appreciating it too much.
But, to work. They insert the operating program disk into Coldstone. And we push in hard and fast on Coldstone's eyes!!

8. Inside Coldstone's mind -- Same time. A tunnel of electric light appears before Othello and Desdemona. Des wonders if they should investigate, but before Othello can answer, Iago pushes them aside and glides down the tunnel out of sight. Now Desdemona is convinced they should stop or at least follow him. But Othello talks her out of it. Let him go. We are here and happy and together. What else matters?

9. Macbeth's Mansion -- Right then. Coldstone awakens and Iago is in control. He recognizes his rookery sister. (It doesn't really matter if Demona knows about Coldstone's multiple personality disorder.) She asks him how he feels. He quietly responds: vengeful. Demona and Macbeth smile at each other. They've found a friend.

ACT TWO
10. Clock Tower -- About the same time. The gargoyles woke up and got the gist of Elisa's story while we were at commercial. But everyone has questions. Goliath left Macbeth with the Weird Sisters, how did he escape them? And how did Macbeth know about the clock tower? And who was the human woman with him? Did Elisa recognize her? She seemed really familiar, but Elisa can't quite place her. Well, there's one thing they do know: Macbeth stole Coldstone. They have to get him back. So it's off to Macbeth's mansion. Elisa'd like to go with, but she's supposed to report to work in thirty minutes. Goliath assures her the six of them can handle it. She has an entire city to protect. She's not happy about being left out, but she can see his logic. She heads downstairs, talking to herself again. (Good thing I got that long enforced nap.)

11. Macbeth's Mansion -- A short while later. The place is very quiet. The gargoyles split up to search for Coldstone. Lex with Goliath. Brooklyn and Bronx. Broadway and Hudson.

12. Macbeth's Control Room. -- A bit later. Lex and Goliath break in, prepared to battle Macbeth. He's not there. Lex hits the control panel and soon he's found Coldstone on one of the screens. And what's more, he's found the creature awake and straining against chains that bind him to the floor of the dungeon. It must be a trap, but Lex can't figure out what the trap is. Goliath's all for heading straight down to the dungeon to free Coldstone, but first Lex reminds Goliath of some hard truths. Somehow, Macbeth got Coldstone operational again. That's the good news. But there'll be no way of knowing which of Coldstone's three personalities will be in control. One of the three hates Goliath's guts. Goliath has to be careful.

13. Another area in the mansion -- about the same time. Demona attacks Brooklyn and Bronx. They weren't expecting her at all, and it looks like she's got the upper hand.

14. Another area in the mansion -- about the same time. Broadway and Hudson find Macbeth. This is exactly who they expected to find and they're ready. It's a tough battle, but the good guys win.

15. Same as Scene 13. -- exactly the same time. When Macbeth is taken out by Broadway and Hudson, Demona doubles over in pain. She recovers quickly, but she's lost the upper hand, and Brooklyn is not about to let her get it back. He and Bronx defeat Demona.

16. Dungeon -- a few minutes later. Goliath and Lex approach Coldstone. Coldstone yells a warning: It's a trap!! But from another door, Broadway's voice calls out: "Not anymore!" He and Hudson enter, toting an unconscious Macbeth. But Coldstone still warns them away. Demona is still out there. And from a third door come Brooklyn and Bronx with the unconscious Demona as well. Goliath is surprised. Demona and Macbeth obviously escaped the Weird Sisters together, but who could have predicted they'd team up? They hate each other. But he can't worry about that now. He turns to Lex. Coldstone's warnings would seem to indicate that the right rookery brother is in control. Lex: "It's probably o.k. Just stay on your guard." So Goliath and Broadway help Coldstone break his chains. He greets them all warmly. Then approaches the fallen Macbeth and Demona. He effortlessly lifts them up by their shirt fronts, in a very threatening manner. But then his rocket jets turn on and he hovers a foot above the floor. Before the gargoyles have time to react, he says, "Now." Macbeth, who, like Demona, was only faking, has a small one-button remote control hidden in the palm of his hand. He presses it. The entire floor of the dungeon electrifies and all six gargoyles are knocked out.

17. Coldstone's Brain -- right then. Othello and Desdemona hear the deafening sound of Coldstone's laughter.

ACT THREE
18. Coldstone's Brain, in front of the electric tunnel -- a few seconds later. Obviously, Iago's up to no good. But Othello's being stubborn. Let someone else take up the cause. We have earned this peace.

19. Clock Tower -- Several hours later, just before sunrise. An exhausted Elisa is there (wearing at the very least, a different colored t-shirt, one would hope). She anxiously awaits the return of the Gargoyles. She tells herself that if they're not back by sunrise, she doesn't know what she's going to do. But before she can figure it out, she sees a winged silhouette approaching. She's initially relieved, until seconds later when Demona comes in for a landing. Elisa isn't exactly terrified. After all, the sun's coming up right now: Demona's about to turn to stone. But Demona merely laughs. And then transforms into the human woman that Elisa had seen 24 hours ago. As Demona grimaces from the pain of transformation, Elisa, despite her shock, draws her gun. If Demona's human, then she's subject to human law and under arrest.
But even unarmed, Demona has the upper hand. She, Macbeth and Coldstone have the gargoyles. If Demona doesn't return, the gargoyles won't either. She tells Elisa why she came. Before she kills Goliath, she wants to prove to him once and for all what humans are really like. So she's inviting Elisa to a high noon rendezvous at Belvedere Castle in Central Park. She warns Elisa that her only chance of surviving the encounter is to avoid it. Either Elisa dies or Goliath sees what human loyalty is really worth: either way, it works out fine for Demona, who then calmly takes her leave via the trapdoor. After a defeated beat, Elisa follows.

20. Ext. Precinct house. Elisa gets outside in time to see the Human Demona hail and get into a yellow cab. The cab pulls away, and for a second Elisa starts to follow, but then she says to herself, what's the point. I know where she's going. Officer Morgan exits the building, again on his way home. "We gotta stop meeting like this, Detective," he jokes. She's a bit dazed and just says, "I'm sorry, what?" He looks at her with concern. "You're looking a bit frayed around the edges."
Elisa: "Maybe that's because I haven't gotten any real sleep in the last 40 hours. I'm tired, hungry and, yes, afraid. I could just go home now and go to bed. When I woke up, it would be over for me. The world would suddenly be normal again. No more monsters -- good or bad. Just normal life."
Morgan: "Normal life would be nice."
Elisa: "But it isn't nice enough, Morgan. My life could never be nice enough or normal enough to make up for letting them down now. I can't crawl into a hole by myself and pretend that no one else matters."
Morgan, thinking he's finally getting it: "That's why you put on the badge."
Elisa: "Yeah, that's exactly why. Thanks, Morgan. You've been a big help." And she takes off.
Morgan, still a bit confused: "Sure, detective, anytime."

21. Belvedere Castle -- a few minutes before noon. The gargoyles are there in stone and in chains. Coldstone/Iago, Human Demona and Macbeth are there as well. Coldstone can't get over seeing the sun. He doesn't understand why he didn't turn to stone. Demona explains that he is no longer a gargoyle: day or night, he is Coldstone. Fine. But that doesn't explain how come no one in the park seems to notice their presence. Macbeth answers: "It's enough that they don't. Don't concern yourself with it." The answer satisfies Coldstone for the time being. He's in too good a mood to argue.

22. Inside Coldstone's Brain -- same time. Desdemona isn't sure that she and Othello are doing the right thing. Is this the gargoyle way? Othello tells her they are no longer really gargoyles. But he turns away, when he says it. He can't look her in the eye, cause he knows he's doing the wrong thing. But when he looks at her again, instead of seeing one Desdemona, he sees three. One with Blonde hair, one with Silver hair and one with Black hair. The Weird Sisters doing their thing.

23. Belvedere Castle -- Noon. Elisa arrives. Demona is surprised, but not upset. She lifts her plasma cannon. But Elisa says she's unarmed. Demona doesn't care, but Macbeth gets the message. This doesn't sit well, with his own strange code of honor. What's wrong, Demona? Afraid to face her on an even playing field? Thus Human Demona is goaded into a hand-to-hand match against Elisa. Demona's had a thousand years of warrior training. But not as a human. So it's pretty evenly matched.

24. Coldstone's mind -- Same time. The three Desdemona Weird Sisters confront Othello. Would he really be happy here in this false paradise knowing that he could have stopped all the damage that Iago is doing in the real world. Othello finally admits that he couldn't. The three Desdemona's merge together, leaving the real one there, a bit woozy, but still determined to help Othello fight Iago. They head down the electric tunnel together.

25. Belvedere - Right then. Coldstone/Iago suddenly cries out that he's under attack, then freezes up.

26. Inside Electric Tunnel - Right then. Iago blocks Othello and Desdemona's path. They fight. Desdemona will hold Iago at bay so that Othello can take control of Coldstone and try to repair the damage that Iago has done in the real world. With a last look back, Othello heads toward the light at the end of the tunnel.

27. Belvedere - That second. Coldstone/Othello awakens. Macbeth asks if he is all right. Coldstone simply asks for a moment to access his memory banks. He does. And then he attacks Macbeth. This catches both Macbeth and Demona off-guard and helps give Elisa the upper hand in her battle against Demona. Ultimately, Macbeth is forced to grab Demona and flee. (Maybe he summons his airship?) Coldstone starts to pursue, but Elisa needs him to help her get the chains off the guys, besides there's been enough fighting for one day. Coldstone uses his wrist cannon to snap the hold on all six. When they wake up at sunset, they should be able to shrug the chains off. Elisa asks him to stay. She knows that's what Goliath wants too. But Coldstone knows that Desdemona and Iago are still at war inside of him. The other gargoyles aren't safe from "Coldstone" until that battle is decided. He promises, that if he can, he will return someday. Then he rockets off into the sky. A few seconds later, a jogger jogs by. "Hey, where did those statues come from." Elisa heaves a big sigh. She sits down and leans back against Goliath. "Don't ask me. I'm just taking a nap."

28. Macbeth's Mansion - That night. Macbeth and Gargoyle/Demona are summing up. Demona's pissed that they failed to kill Elisa and the gargoyles, but that wasn't the primary objective. Plus they lost Coldstone, but that was always just a blind anyway. They've got the Grimorum, the Eye and the Portal-to-Avalon-Talisman. They stole all three when they took Coldstone. (They even used a spell from the Grimorum to hide their escape from the clock tower and to keep their fight in the park private.) If they had left Coldstone in the tower and only stolen the magic items, Goliath wouldn't have rested until he got them back. This way, it will be weeks before he notices that they're even gone.
But then they start to question they're own motivations: why did they want these items so badly? How did they know their secret location in the clock tower? For that matter, how did they know that the gargoyles lived at the clock tower at all? And why the heck are they working together when they hate each other's guts?
Just when they're about to murdilize each other, the Weird Sisters step in and put them both into a trance. They just made it under the wire. The "geas" spell on Demona and Macbeth was about to wear off. And of course they had no spell on Coldstone, which was why they wanted him separated from the other two. Besides they don't need Coldstone. Each of the three Sisters picks up one of the magical items. These will do quite nicely in the coming battle.

ONE LAST QUESTION: Given the above changes, does the title still work for you? I'm kind of mixed on it now.


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Chapter XXVI: "High Noon"

Following fast on the heels of City of Stone, here's my ramble on High Noon...

The recap is interesting here. It's all Coldstone oriented. Demona, Macbeth and the Weird Sisters aren't mentioned. Nothing from City of Stone, despite this being a direct sequel to those events. The reason is that the recaps got early criticism on a Disney Afternoon mailing list for giving too much away. We'd show a villain who didn't appear until the end of Act One, thus cueing our audience to expect that villain all along. A valid criticism. So we tried to adjust here. Coldstone's participation wasn't a secret. The episode opens in his "internal cyber-world" and he's shown dormant in the Clock Tower in the very next scene. But when Demona and Macbeth first walk past Elisa and Morgan, we're not supposed to know who they are. So I intentionally kept them out of the recap to preserve that reveal.

The heather Othello gathers has no scent. Why not? Everything in that world, except for the souls of the three gargs was simply a mental construct. Sight, sound, touch. So why not smell? No chemical senses, you might argue. But why no chemical senses? Why touch and not taste? I think that the lack of smell was an unconscious or subconscious boundary that Desdemona did not want to cross. Something to remind her that this world is not real. For all we know, Othello and Iago could smell whatever they imagined they could smell.

I like seeing Hudson and Broadway learning to read. We cheated a bit. I'm not sure they could have progressed as fast as they did in the short time since "Lighthouse". But we took that liberty to show that they had been working assiduously at it.

I have mixed feelings about Hudson's "Why would she want to 'hit a sack'?" line. On the one hand, I'm not sure we ever did enough of this. Playing with the contrasts in language and expression between their world and ours. On the other hand, it just seemed a bit late in the game for Hudson not to have heard this one already. (And for that matter, I have no idea when that particular phrase originated. For all I know they've been hitting the sack since the Middle Ages.)

Elisa makes a point of saying that she's "no hero". Just a gal doing a job. But of course, we know that's not true. It's simply how she'd prefer to view herself -- particularly when she's so tired. I tried to use this episode to emphasize that Elisa works the night shift. That she gets off work just before sunrise. Starts work just after sunset. (I actually imagine that she works a four day ten hour shift, plus mucho overtime.) Sometimes it seemed like the fans had forgotten that. I got a lot of questions back then like: "She works during the day and hangs with the gargoyles at night. When does she sleep?"

Morgan has a real nice role in this one. Keith is great as Morgan. So distinctive from Goliath in a part that was a mere throwaway in Awakening, Part One. Morgan and Elisa's easy rapor in this episode and Avalon One is what gave me the idea that he might someday ask her out (on that 2nd Halloween episode I've mentioned a few times). And the notion of a Keith-Salli-Keith triangle tickled me a bit.

Enter Macbeth as a perp with a human Demona dressed as a cop. (Always nice to show our characters in different costumes on occasion.) I'm curious how many people IMMEDIATELY recognized Demona as herself? After all, you'd only gotten a BRIEF glimpse of her human form in "The Mirror". And we hadn't shown it at all in "Vows" or "City of Stone". In fact, City of Stone began what we then called our Third Tier of stories. (Tier One was the first season. Tier Two was the first eight episodes of the second season: Leader, Legion, Metamorphosis, Lighthouse, Silver Falcon, Mirror, Eye of the Beholder, Vows.) And of course, City of Stone was transitional, so one could argue that Tier Three was beginning here with High Noon. Anyway, Demona's in atypical dress and species. Who knew it was her?

And once you did know, what were you thinking? The gargoyles have the same questions, I'd imagine. Last they (and you) saw, Mac and Demona hated each other, and had been taken away by the seemingly benevolent Weird Sisters. What was going through your heads about all this? Did you wonder at the seeming inconsistencies, like their knowledge of the Clock Tower? Their ability to get Coldstone out of the tower in daylight, unseen?

When my son Ben saw Demona, he thought it was one of the "triplets", which is what he calls the Weird Sisters. (They've fast become his favorite characters.) When I pointed out that she had red hair and not white, yellow or black, he was resistent to giving up on the idea that they weren't going to appear. (I was glad they eventually did. And now I wonder what he's going to think about the next seven episodes in which they do NOT appear.)

Throughout this, we cheat a bit on Elisa's exhaustion. We knock her out, but keep her tired. The subtle differences between various means of being unconscious and their effects on how tired one is confuse me.

I love Mac and D's exchange...
Mac: "You're still thinking like a gargoyle."
D: "I am a gargoyle." And don't you forget it.

Again, back in those days I just thought the audience would get revved up merely because we were teaming up THREE of our major villains. Macbeth, Demona and the villainous side of Coldstone. In Batman or Superman that would be a BIG EVENT. A huge threat to the hero. Did it have that effect on you guys? I feel vaguely that in a strange way, it did not. That our villains were so complex, that for once they backfired on us. That it wasn't viewed as, "Wow, our heroes have barely survived an encounter with one of those guys, how will they handle three?" Rather, the conflict was less interesting than the machinations and personalities. Am I being clear? Your thoughts?

This episode had some truly gorgeous animation in it. And the transformation scenes are both very cool. The Pain Link plays well here, though occasionally seems more geared to comedy than drama for some reason. The theme of gifts coming with a price... particularly the gifts of tricksters is emphasized in this scene.

Meanwhile Othello is desperately trying to remain an ostrich with his head in the sand. A position that on at least one level, Elisa 'believes' she'd like to take as well. With Othello, I think it's a real possibility that he will never act. With Elisa, I don't think we believe it for a moment. That's part of the reason they're both in there. To make sure that the theme of "Standing Up" is emphasized. Which brings us to the title, "HIGH NOON". That was one of mine, I believe. And I stole it right from the Gary Cooper movie. Sure we'd have a battle at High Noon. Because this was Elisa's story, not the gargoyles. Because the gargoyles would be asleep and vulnerable. But also because it was that kind of archetypal the-hero-stands-alone western battle.

You may notice that Xander Berkeley (the voice of Iago) does not appear in this episode. Because Iago has no lines when he's not in control of the Coldstone body. Again, I'm always so impressed with what a great job Michael Dorn does contrasting the Othello and Iago personalities without actually changing his voice.

I like Elisa's line when Brooklyn asks her if she recognized the woman with Macbeth. "She seemed familiar." Think about this for a second. If this was real life and not a cartoon, do you think you'd recognize Demona in Dominique? And yet I completely buy that Elisa recognized something in there. There's a strange nega-intimacy between Elisa and Demona. (Which is one of the sick reasons why I created Delilah, later.)

Goliath and Elisa engage in a little dueling patronizing here. Elisa has to go back on shift, so can't accompany the 'goyles to Mac's place. Goliath is pretty smug when he says the six of them can handle it. (The smugness, I hope, is undercut when he follows it up by saying, "You have a whole city to protect." Which is how he views it.) Then Elisa talks to them like they're little kids. She wants a full report when they get back. (Who says these two weren't made for each other?)

Lex, who has been and will continue to be very adept at breaking alarm systems, etc., for once admits that it's all too easy.

I like the moment when Goliath taps the camera with his wing. A nice little touch. And very well animated.

Lex is always the voice of warning in regards to Coldstone. This is important. Goliath listens to Lex this time. And Lex is fooled when Coldstone reveals Demona's involvement, seemingly before they know Demona is involved. I thought that was very clever on the villains' part.

Bronx smells Demona behind the closet, just as he did behind the tapestry.

I like how the marble bust flies and crashes. Another nice touch in the boarding and animation. Nice weight to the whole Brooklyn-Demona-Bronx fight scene.

I liked staging the Macbeth, Husdon, Broadway fight in a library. Felt like a thematic rematch from "Lighthouse".

The pain link here is a BIT of a cheat. Usually with them in different rooms on different floors, it wouldn't be quite this intense. Maybe the library is directly above whatever room Demona was in.

Lex is sure Coldstone's wrong about Demona. Brooklyn's "Uh, guess again." line is fun.

The entire battle at Macbeth's place is part of a technique I enjoy using on occasion called "Suspended Structure". This is really an Elisa and Othello Story. But we let the gargs carry the action for a period of time, while the true protagonists can't or won't take action. This keeps the story moving, without compromising the inaction of our "leads".

Demona confronts Elisa at the clock tower. The animators get a little carried away here with some of Demona's body language. God knows, it's fun to watch. But would she really do all those sexpot poses? Is that in character?

It is fun to see her hail a taxi though.

Morgan's back. Elisa now looks VERY tired. Again, great work from the animators. It's all in the eyes. Morgan helps Elisa though he thinks she's just talking about normal copwork. It only proves there's really no such thing as a "Normal Life". Morgan certainly doesn't think he has one.

Meanwhile Desdemona's gettin antsy. It's the "in" that the Weird Sisters need. They take over. Unfortunately, here, the animators screwed up. The three Desdemona's were supposed to have silver, gold and raven hair. Instead, in most shots, they just look like three Dessies. Then when they finally do get the hair right, it's just before they merge back into one Desdemona. At which point, the hair color should have been Des'. Instead, I think it's Luna's -- briefly. Oh, well. Anyway, I could have just done this with Desdemona herself. But I wanted to give the audience a hint that the Weird Sisters were still involved. Ben was thrown by the hair. He almost didn't believe these were the triplets.

I like the line: "Even shadows must be true to their shade."

High Noon at Belvedere Castle. Coldstone wonders that he can see the sun. Again, that's me making sure people are clear that Coldstone is RE-ANIMATED STONE, not flesh. I don't think it's visually clear. (Part of the problem being that Othello's coloring is too similar.)

Then Elisa arrives -- counting on Macbeth's honor to keep Demona from shooting her. For that reason, she intentionally doesn't bring her service revolver to the party. Quite the gambit. Elisa also counts on Demona's temper -- and on the fact that Demona is unaccustomed to fighting with reduced human strength. She goads Demona: "I'm here to save him." and "You fight like a rookie." I love, positively LOVE, the former of those two lines. Elisa is a hero in her own right. Though Goliath has rescued her on occasion, I felt we did a pretty good job of always evening the score. She's no damsel in distress.

Mac & Coldstone: "This is diverting." "You have no idea." (Quotations approximate.) I like that. A tip of the hat to my being a guy, if you will.

We cheat a bit here on the pain link too. One could argue that Mac IS feeling the pain. But he's ready for it and covering. He does seem to be grimacing a bit when he says, "You have no idea." But still, I think we cheated.

I love the animation on the Othello, Desdemona, Iago fight.

Battle over, Coldstone leaves. Sends himself into exile. This is the gargoyle way.

And hey, our jogger is back. Again wondering where all these statues are coming from. That's just fun continuity for me. And Elisa: "Don't ask me. I'm just taking a nap."

And then the whole final scene between Mac and D and the sisters is so much fun. I love the sense of the fog lifting from their eyes. "What Primary Objective?" "Why are we working together?"

And I'm also proud of the trick. A very Xanatosian tag here. Steal Coldstone to distract the gargs from noticing the thefts of the gate, book and eye.

And how about that reference to "The coming battle..." that the Sisters end the episode on? What did you all think of that at the time?

I'll try to post the High Noon writer's memo tomorrow. (Meant to do it yesterday, but I forgot.) Anyway, Done rambling. You're turn. (Again, I'm interested in both your original and current responses to the episode.)


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Jim R. writes...

Is there really a garden maze known as the "Brooklyn Botanical Gardens" in Brooklyn, NY? And is there really a dragon statue in the middle? Just wondering...

Greg responds...

There is a Brooklyn Botanical Gardens. But we made up most of the rest. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it.)

Response recorded on February 15, 2001

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Jim R. writes...

In the beginning of "Temptation" episode, how did the Trio manage to find an empty warehouse and welding tools? And how did they manage to fix the motorcycle without any notice from bystanders or other people?

Greg responds...

Well, they searched around until they found a place they could get into and use after dark. In a neighborhood where most people don't hang after the sun sets.

B&E, of course. I don't recommend it.

Response recorded on February 15, 2001

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Sixshot writes...

About Hunter's Moon 3, this is how I remembered the final battle: Goliath was pounding his fists on Jon's armor. His helm was cracking and was about break. Then Goliath rip the collar off and that's where Elisa came in to stop the fight.

That was the first time I saw the episode 5 years ago, at least how I remembered it. I seen it recently this year, but the scene changed: The pounding scene was removed and only the collar ripping was left. Did my memory play some tricks on me? Do you know if the scene I describe first was the original sequence or my tv station edited the scene?

Greg responds...

It's been awhile for me too, I'm afraid. And my memory isn't quite that specific. My tapes tend to be the version originally aired. Not those later corrected or re-edited by Toon Disney. I'm slowly rewatching all the episodes. Remind me when I get close.

Or come to the Gathering in Los Angeles this June. Lots of tapes there.

Response recorded on February 15, 2001

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He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named writes...

I just read a question that interested me. I thought that I had seen all of the Garg episodes, but now I know that I haven't. I started watching the show last summer, on Toon Disney; I watched it every night, from Awakenings back to Awakenings. Anyway, the question asked why Toon Disney refused to air Dark Force. Never heard of it. Could you give us "rookies" a lil synopsis?

Greg responds...

I think you mean "Deadly Force". Toon Disney does refuse to air this episode. In it, Broadway accidentally shoots Elisa with her own gun. She is rushed to a hospital and nearly dies.

(Question: Did you wonder in Enter Macbeth why Elisa was on crutches? Did you wonder what she was talking about in "The Edge" when she tries to get Chavez to NOT partner her with Matt?)

Response recorded on February 15, 2001

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Jim R. writes...

I as curious to know if gargoyles lived in North America before Columbus discovered it in 1492? I mean, surely the native americans (Indians) must have seen them. Because the episode involving Raven and Grandmother specifically indicates totem poles in the forms of gargoyles.

Greg responds...

Actually, you weren't paying close attention. We made a point of saying the totem poles were not modeled on Gargoyles. (Raven lies about this, but Grandmother is clear. And by the end of the episode, it's also clear who to trust.)

Having said that, I have every reason to believe that Gargs lived in North America before 1492. After all, they clearly lived in South America before 1492.

Response recorded on February 15, 2001

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matt writes...

you've said numerous times that there are no aquatic or amphibious gargoyles, however in "Ill Met by Midnight" as Katherine, Goliath, and everyone are arriving at the castle at the beginning of the ep there is a Avalon clan garg shown that looks extremely aquatic. he has what looks to be gills, fins, fishy looking eyes, webbed appendages, and on top of everything else is a aquamarine hue. i just thought i'd mention it...

Greg responds...

I haven't seen that episode in a while. I'd have to look again.

And by the way, I've "said numerous times that there are no aquatic or amphibious gargoyles"? When? At any rate, it depends how you define "aquatic".

Response recorded on February 15, 2001

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Bruno writes...

Hi, Greg,

In your "Vows" ramble, you asked from were came "more's the pity".

Well, I was reading Richard III and found it in the scene 1, act 1: Hastings and Gloucester are talkin about Hastings being freed from the tower, and Clarence throwed there:

HASTINGS
MORE PITY that the eagle should be mew'd,
While kites and buzzards prey at liberty.

Greg responds...

Yeah. But is that the original? And how and when did it take the current form?

Response recorded on February 15, 2001

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matt writes...

in "Awakenings, part 1" when Tom first comes up to the trio and they have that talk about calling each other friend (by the way, this is one of my fav scenes in the series) and then the gargs scare the humans and everything, what was Tom thinking? i know he really liked the gargs and wanted to be their friends but if these "monsters" than turned around and purposely frightned my mother, i'd be pretty upset. i don't know Tom's background but i'm sure that he's had a rough life. he's a refugee, so he has lost his home, we never see his father so i assume given the time period that he is dead and now these creatures are threatening his mom! Tom is a smart kid not to follow so many of his role models, including his mother, into believing that the gargs are demons, etc. and even after this he still calls the gargs his friends. what are your thoughts of young Tom and this incident?

Greg responds...

I think Tom saw the whole thing. Saw that the gargs were insulted and hurt. Saw that they were fooling around and then got punished for it. Tom loves his Mom, but he thought she was wrong.

Response recorded on February 07, 2001

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matt writes...

what other spells besides the sleep counter spell were on the page of the Grimorum that Hakon burned? if you have this planned out, i'll be surprised so i really don't expect a big answer!

Greg responds...

I didn't have anything too specific in mind.

Response recorded on February 07, 2001

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Entity writes...

Hi Greg,

In your latest beat sheet for the series opener, I see that the idea of the Trio being young and inexperienced was still prominant. I understand where you came from in eventually changing that, but when I first watched AWAKENING I was distraught by the Trio. Every gargoyle we saw was a full-fledged warrior. Where _were_ the inexperienced kids? The elderly? It seemed slightly out-of-sync that the Trio were such able-bodied fighters. Was the Viking attack a real threat or wasn't it?

That is just my original impression of the events of the initial Viking attack. Later on, when the gang counterattacks the camp, I can understand their participation.

I guess the battle just came off too light-heartedly when we glimped the Trio, starkly contrasting with characters like Goliath's and Demona's scenes. A real sense of danger is added by Hakon drawing Goliath's blood, boulders crashing into stone, refugees huddling about, the Captain barking orders, etc. But then we have the Trio gallavanting through the battle like it's, as Brooklyn puts it, just "fun."

I think their innocense could have been portrayed in a way that didn't detract from the realism that was so effectively installed earlier on.

This isn't intended to come off as pure criticism. AWAKENINGS was brilliant, especially Part 1. But I thought I'd mention my first impressions.

Another little thing I noticed from the beat sheet is that the flashback originally began showing the refugees entering the castle, with the Marauders/Vikings on their tail, and then both parties camp for the day till dusk. This struck me in two ways: First, it gave me a better grip of realism. Enemy attackers camping right outside the castle, both sides waiting for the battle to begin... that could've added a cool flavor to things, and immerse us more into the medieval setting. Secondly, showing the refugees herded into the castle beforehand would've better clarified the events surrounding the battle. In the final product, we jump straight into the fight and, as a result, a reason is not even necessarily needed. The Captain's off-hand comment about refugees comes off as superfluous. I remember shrugging. 'That's nice' I thought. We were in the battle. Who needed backstory? Of course, the refugees were an important component, for the sake of Tom and his mother, and to better portray the environment of 10th century Scotland. If we'd seen the prologue to the battle, that's included in the beat sheet, I think it would've been much more effective.

I guess what this comes down to in the end is my earlier message I sent to you, in which I asked about trimming episodes with Last Time and Next Time segments. You defended, saying they were useful for tightening the episodes, but I put forth, as shown here, that some valuable stuff can be lost. Of course, it's doubtful you would've wanted or could've gotten a 6th Part to AWAKENINGS, but don't you think you could use ANY extra time you have to better flesh things out?

Greg responds...

The trio are new to this warrior thing at the time of the Viking attack. Brooklyn takes it more seriously, and unfortunately we don't see much with Lex (not enough time in the episode). Broadway enjoys the battle and doesn't take it as seriously as he should. We did this on purpose in order to contrast his response in the second battle at the Viking encampment.

I don't think the realism was damaged (though, of course, you're entitled to your opinion). I just think we were showing a variety of responses to the stimuli at hand.

And we did show the elderly -- in the person of Hudson. We couldn't show everyone, so he stood in for all of his generation that still survived. The only group we didn't show at all were kids (Bronx's age). It was felt that it would just be too brutal to establish and show these kids -- only to have them smashed later.

As for the prologue, well, I liked it too. But talk about superfluous...

I mean, what would you have been willing to cut from the episode in exchange for adding that prologue. It's not like I can say, "Hey, we want this prologue. Let's animate an additional three minutes here." Ultimately we have an absolute time limit to every episode. A footage limit (based on budget concerns) that we are allowed to send overseas to be animated. Something had to go. And I think the Captain's line covers the necessary info. It might not be elegant. But it's servicable.

But don't start on the Previously and Next Time segments. They don't count. What I'm talking about is how much we were allowed to ANIMATE at our budget. That was limited to about twenty-two minutes and thirty seconds. Putting entire new sequences in would require us to speed up the pacing of everything else. Using thirty seconds for a PREVIOUSLY segment allows us to tighten pacing and cut out bad frames of animation once something is animated. Because, the truth is, nothing ever came back to us PERFECT. NOTHING.

So AGAIN, had I cut all those previously and next time segments you would not have gotten any extra scenes. You just would have had the scenes you saw with some bad animation and pacing left in. And if there's still bad animation and pacing in there -- well, trust me, we used those thirty seconds to cut out the worst of it.

We clear now?

Response recorded on February 07, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

In the episode long way till morning we see how princess Katherine gets her xenophobic behavior of gargoyles by her father telling her things like "the gargoyles would get you." Hudson hears this and tells her father "we will never hurt the lass" My questions are

1) Why did prince Malcolm tell his daughter "The gargoyles would get you" since he knows the gargoyles would never do such a thing?

2)What would Hudson do if he were to ever meet Princess Katherine again?

Greg responds...

1. Malcolm is being expedient, not wise.

2. Thank her for raising the eggs.

And it's Katharine. With two "a"s.

Response recorded on February 07, 2001


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