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Chapter XXXV: "Avalon, Part Two"
Time to Ramble...
"PART TWO"
Director: Dennis Woodyard
Writer: Lydia Marano
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
I guess you guys were used to longer multi-parters from us, so you probably didn't think this was the last part when you saw Part Two come up after the title. I tried something different at the end though. Instead of writing "To be continued" I had them put down "To be concluded". It seemed (at least in my head) to increase tension to know that the next part would be the last.
I've been told by people that out of context, this episode is incomprehensible. I hope it's not quite that bad, but I will say that unlike the rest of our eps, I felt that multi-parter eps don't quite need to stand alone in the same way.
Still with all the time travel stuff, it's very complex. I remember Lydia having to come into my office after her first draft and needing me to diagram the time travel for her. The loop that the Archmage takes. I love it. But I guess it's not that easy to follow.
Anyway, this ep was designed to be the second part of a tryptich. This is the one where we focus on our villains and bring them all up to date, just as in part one, we focused on our heroes. All gearing to a MAJOR BATTLE coming in Part Three.
THE EGGS
Picking up where Part One left off, Elisa looks at Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca and says: "These are the eggs?" I love her tone there.
Guardian: "Sorry, I always call them that." It was a cheat to buy us, at least with some percentage of our audience, the shock value of expecting eggs and finding fully grown gargs and beasts instead. Still, I believe that a guy like Tom, dubbed "Guardian of the Eggs" would continue to use that term to refer to his kids, even after they are grown.
Goliath is initially shocked that the gargs have names. Angela says the standard human response: "How else would we tell each other apart?" This was done intentionally to both cover the issue of non-garg naming (which I still think is neat, but which is often a massive pain) and to indicate that these are gargs raised by humans.
BEACH FIGHT
So I'm in my office one day, after the script to "Avalon, Part Two" has gone final. And Supervising Producer Frank Paur and Producer/Director Dennis Woodyard come in. Frank hates the script. Dennis is calmer, but he seems to clearly agree with Frank, more or less.
I'm annoyed because it's VERY late in the game for them to be giving me these kind of notes. Things get heated between me and Frank.
I yell something like: "Well, what do you want me to do?!!!"
And he yells something like: "We need some action! Like a fight on the Beach with the Archmage!!"
And I start to object for about a second. Then I go, "Oh, yeah. A fight on the beach with the Archmage. That'd be cool. Would that fix it?"
"Uh. Yeah."
And that was it. Our fights were always like that. We always only wanted to make it better. He'd get worked up, but the solution wound up being simple and when push came to shove (we never actually pushed and shoved by the way) we agreed on nearly everything.
It was also good to have Dennis' calming influence. Frank and I would go momentarily nutty and Dennis would always maintain.
So anyway, after the fact we added the memorable fight on the beach. Now I can't imagine the episode without it. It forced us to trim down some the Archmages travels (cause we were already long) but it definitely improved the episode.
I think, not sure, but I think I wrote that fight because it came so late in the game. It's also possible, I might have taken it back to Brynne and/or Lydia to write. I really don't remember anymore.
Either way, there are some great lines:
Goliath: "Don't be too insulted!" I love how he goes nuts here. We really get a reminder of his warrior-ness.
Archmage: "Don't crow too loudly, after all, what have you accomplished: you beat up a beach." You beat up a beach. That's one of my favorite lines in the whole series.
Archmage: "At dawn you all will die. Get used to it!"
Tom: "Let's get out of here before the very air attacks us!"
The fight itself is pretty cool too. I like how Bronx and Boudicca immediately team up. I like the symbolic nature of the Archmage growing wings, turning to stone and then shattering. I think that was a board-artist's addition. I don't remember seeing that in the script. (And I'm too lazy to stand up and check right now.)
At the end of the fight, my five year old son Benny asked: "Why can't they glide to the castle?" I had to explain the flight rules.
ANGELA & GABRIEL
Elisa slides up to Goliath: "Angela sort of looks like Demona, except her coloring is different. Exactly whose daughter is she?" Again, I love Salli's reading here. That need to know. The jealousy. The feeling for Goliath -- who dodges the question by saying that all children belong to the clan.
But of course Elisa knows. Knows something that I believe never occured to her before. Sure, she knew that Goliath and Demona had been mates, lovers. But she didn't let her mind traverse to the next logical step. Parents. Together. Goliath and Demona.
And of course, the audience knows it too, I hope. It was never meant to be a secret to anyone but Angela who her biological parents are. These lines also served to point that out.
On the other hand, we didn't make a big deal of Gabe's bio-parentage. But I wanted it to be semi-clear that his folks were Othello and Desdemona (Coldstone and Coldfire). Anyone get that at first viewing?
REUNIONS
Everyone returns to Oberon's Palace. There are many injured and Gabe is apologetic. As Leader, he feels responsible. But there was 'never any need to hone our combat skills' before this.
Tom & Katharine are reunited. Elisa, the cop, picks up on the human dynamics, the relationships, immediately. She sees the Magus' reaction to their reunion.
I also really like the exchange between the Princess and Goliath.
K: "This is more than I could have hoped for."
G: "What you've done for the eggs is more than I could have dreamed of"
SLEEPING KING
We kept dropping hints. He's mentioned by the Magus, but the conversation moves quickly on.
Later, the Weird Sisters mentioned him. The Archmage is surprised to hear he's not a myth, causing Seline to say her famous: "All things are true." line. The Archmages promise to kill the king later.
And Elisa brings the guy up at the end. This policy was me trying to play fair and make his awakening in Part Three not seem artificial. But also not to allow the guy to distract from the matter at hand.
Of course, most of THIS crowd must have known the s-king was a ref to KING ARTHUR. Particularly when the Hollow Hill ref was thrown in too. But did anyone not know on first viewing?
LOOSE ENDS
This was an episode for tying up Loose Ends in a big way. Solving some mysteries.
Why did the Weird Sisters do what they did? (At least objectively.)
Why were Demona and Macbeth working together in "High Noon"? (Elisa: "They hate each other." Guardian: "I saw no sign of that.")
And how did the Archmage survive?
Tom unwittingly hints at the truth when he says that the Archmage seemed to be able to be in two places at once.
Now let's reveal...
WEIRD SISTERS
Wow! Did we get negative feedback from fans when we played the Sisters as villains here. Of course, I always had it in my head that the Sisters had three aspects. Grace, Vengeance and Fate. Sometimes one aspect is ascendent, but there is always a touch of all three in anything they do. But after the Sisters' Fateful appearances in "City of Stone", many fans rebelled at the notion that the objective reason they did all those things was for simple petty vengeance here in "Avalon". Oh, well.
[When Benny saw the Sisters for the first time, he said "Weird Sisters" with an interesting tone of awe. They're his favorites. But he didn't comment on them being bad guys here.]
The sisters have some nice lines...
L: "What is time to an immortal."
Phoebe: "This is true." (in ref to what cannot be broken can be bent).
ARCHMAGESES
Okay, this was just fun for me. In many ways the origin of much of this was the flat out talent of David Warner. He brought such life to the underwritten (and clichéd) part of the Archmage in "Long Way to Morning" that I just knew I'd have to bring him back. Many of the events of "Vows", "City of Stone", "High Noon" etc. were all geared toward bringing him back as a real THREAT!!
Yet with all this, I didn't want to forget the character's roots. We tried to set a balance between his clichés and his new power.
Think about it. The Archmage+ (as we called him in the script), had only been plussed for about a day. Still he's full of arrogance. His power hasn't raised him above that hybris nor above the thirst for vengeance nor above gloating or above impatience. That's his flaw, but also the fun, I think.
And of course, David. Wow.
Praise for Salli Richardson as Elisa. For Kath Soucie as Princess Katharine and all three Weird Sisters. For Frank Welker as Bronx and Boudicca.
But this Archmage stuff here is a tour de force, I think. David just went through, playing both characters. Both versions of himself. Keep in mind, he hadn't been privy to all that the writers had planned. He had come in for his small parts in both "Long Way" and "Vows". Now suddenly, he's this guy(s). Amazing.
"Do you know what to do?"
"I should. I watched you do it."
"Show some dignity."
"I could put you back where I found you."
"No, no." (I love that no, no. So tiny and fearful.)
"Not where. When."
"If you don't know, don't guess."
"The book must remain in play."
"Try to keep up."
"We're not doing her any favors."
"The rules that cannot be broken can surely be bent."
"Nine hundred and seventy-five YEARS??!!"
"I hadn't thought that far in advance."
"What am I supposed to do, eat it?!"
"Now I understand."
"As it did. As it must. As it always will!"
All great fun.
FLAWS
All these episodes were being produced simultaneously. All in various stages of production. So inconsistencies were bound to happen.
The Egg boats are messed up here. Demona's model in her flashback. Etc.
And storywise, what's the deal with Macbeth? I can see why the Archmage wants to include his former apprentice Demona in his plans. He felt betrayed by her, and is glad not to be doing her any favors by enslaving her.
But Macbeth?
Okay, it's not a true flaw. Macbeth is included because the 'plan of the Archmage' -- birthed whole from the timestream without the Archmage ever actually coming up with it independently (though he takes credit) -- included Macbeth.
It is the provence of Luna, not Seline, at work.
But still, I'd have liked to have been able to figure out some connection between the Archmage and Macbeth so that he wouldn't question the boy's inclusion. Thankfully, the Archmage+ is so arrogant, he takes credit and thus never questions. It occurs to me now, that I could have made a connection between Mac and his ancestors, all related to Katharine and Malcolm. Oh, well.
CAPTIONS
These became fun for me. Adding Captions indicating place and time is one of the very last steps in production. So I'm in there for the "On-Line" with Jeff Arthur, our post-production supervisor, and I'm just indulging...
Sure we start with...
"Scotland, 984 A.D."
But pretty soon we're at "YESTERDAY" and "SIX HOURS AGO" and "ONE MINUTE AGO" and finally "NOW".
It still makes me smile.
POWERING UP
So the Archmage gets the eye. Power. But he's still an idiot. He needs wisdom. He eats the book, which I always thought was really creepy and cool. Now he understands. Now we truly have two Archmage+es. But they can't coexist forever. Aside from how complicated that would be to choreograph, and aside from the fact that the timestream needs the younger of the two to fulfill his role....
They also couldn't coexist because both are too arrogant.
So we repeat the scene of departure to close the circle and tack on: "Finally. I thought he'd never leave."
BATTLE FLASHBACK
We get to see a new clan awake from stone. I hoped that was fun.
Ophelia appears (pre-injury). She looked way cool. For all those people who thought that Gabe and Angie were a couple, take a look at the way Gabe is holding Ophelia and looking at her after she's injured.
LAYING PIPE
In addition to the Sleeping King, we were also laying pipe for our whole fourth tier WORLD TOUR. Tom says: "Avalon dropped me in your laps." He credits Avalon with sending him to Goliath.
The Magus declares that he is without magic and useless. Katharine rebels at that: "Don't say it, and don't think it!" She loves him. Just not the way he wanted her to love him.
Bronx and Boudicca want to go with Goliath.
Elisa asks about the Sleeping King...
And Goliath, Angela and Gabriel take off on a stealth attack.
And we immediately see that the Archmage knows they're coming.
Uh oh.
As the Archmage says... "[We've layed all the damn pipe we could possibly need and more], Now the fun really begins!"
To be concluded...
And that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Gipdac writes...
You pretty much already said this, but just to make sure,
Morgana is a fae and who was which with Nimue, a human, at birth, correct?
Greg responds...
Huh?
Todd Jensen writes...
You mentioned that you could only recommend Isaac Asimov's book on Shakespeare (I assume that you mean his Guide to Shakespeare, which I have a copy of) with reservations. I was wondering if you could tell us a little more about those reservations of yours about it.
Greg responds...
Boy, I must have been really touchy on September 10th.
Let me just say, it's weird to be looking at these questions, asked early in the morning of 9/11, clearly before the events of the day. (Or at least before people became aware of those events.) Puts everything into perspective, you know.
Anyway, Merlin and Oberon have a thorny relationship to say the least. I can't really answer your question in any more detail at this time. I half regret revealing that Oberon was M's dad.
Todd Jensen writes...
You've mentioned earlier that Merlin isn't considered one of "Oberon's Children" (by which I mean the Third Race, rather than Oberon's biological offspring). I recently began wondering over the reason for that, i.e., what reasons Oberon has for not classifying him as such.
The only other "halflings" we know of in the Gargoyles Universe at present are Fox and Alex, and we know what criteria Oberon had for deciding whether they could be considered "Children of Oberon" or not. He viewed Fox as human rather than Third Race because she had shown no sign of manifesting any magic (at least, at the time of "The Gathering Part One") and Alex as Third Race because he still had the potential of developing magic.
Now, moving back to Merlin; he clearly did learn how to use magic, so obviously Oberon used a different criterion for classifying him as human rather than "Oberon's Children" than he did with Fox. So my question is, what is this different criterion?
(And don't worry; this isn't one of those "trying to trip you up questions" that you mentioned being unhappy with recently. I'm just genuinely curious about this).
Greg responds...
Boy, I must have been really touchy on September 10th.
Let me just say, it's weird to be looking at these questions, asked early in the morning of 9/11, clearly before the events of the day. (Or at least before people became aware of those events.) Puts everything into perspective, you know.
Anyway, Merlin and Oberon have a thorny relationship to say the least. I can't really answer your question in any more detail at this time. I half regret revealing that Oberon was M's dad.
FanForLife writes...
Hi, Greg, I just wanna say I love the show and I was wondering something---Titania had Fox by the human, Renard, but did Oberon have any flings with human women? Did he have any children by them? Thanks!
Greg responds...
Merlin.
Anonymous writes...
Merlin
Is Merlin still in love with Nimue in 1996?
Greg responds...
Not saying.
Anonymous writes...
Is Merlin and Blanchefleur still around in 2198?
Greg responds...
Not saying.
Anonymous writes...
Will Arthur have any kids in the future?
Who will succeed Arthur as the ruler of New Camelot?
Greg responds...
Did you really think I'd blithely give this away?
Anonymous writes...
1.Does Xanatos know of Mr.Duval's immortality?
2.What about his identity as Sir Percival?
3.In 1996 of the eight arthurian survivors who among them know Percival is Duval?
4.Who else knows Duval's identity as Percival?
Greg responds...
1. Nope.
2. Nope.
3. Two at least. No more than six.
4. I do. You seem too. Anyone else?
Anonymous writes...
You said that in Castle Carbonek time passes differently so my question is how differently? A day in our world is an hour in Carbonek?
Greg responds...
It's not an equation as with Avalon.
Anonymous writes...
What extraordinary properties does Excalibur possess?
Greg responds...
I'm holding on to that as well.
Anonymous writes...
Why isn¡¯t Merlin, Oberon¡¯s own kid, considered a Child of Oberon? Why is Alex considered one?
Greg responds...
Well, let's begin with this: Considered by whom?
Alex was considered to have the potential to be one by Oberon & Titania.
Merlin and Oberon have long-standing issues, but what makes you think that he isn't considered a Child of Oberon?
Anonymous writes...
What was the original cast of Pendragon? I know the Magus and Arthur was there, but what about Griff? How did you reach the present cast of Arthur, Griff, Merlin and Blanchefleur? Did Griff come after the airing of MIA?
Greg responds...
Calling it 'the original cast' isn't quite fair. I was brainstorming and briefly considered having the Magus survive and travel off with Arthur.
But by the time the idea for Pendragon (the spin-off series) solidified, I already knew that the Magus would make the ultimate sacrifice at Avalon and that in any case, I didn't need two magic users in the small group.
I knew early on I wanted Arthur and Griff and eventually Blanchfleur and Merlin. I knew I wanted Arthur to find Excalibur and then search for Merlin. I knew what I had planned for Blanchefleur and Percival/Duval. And yes, Griff turned out to be so much fun in MIA that I wanted to include him as well. But I can't put everything in a precise order for you. We were working on all these episodes (including Pendragon and MIA simultaneously). And the ideas were just coming to me then, fairly fast and furious.
But none of this came after the AIRING of MIA. Things aired LONG after the stories were written.
Jim R. writes...
About a week ago in the Comment Room I asked about Arthur's stepbrother, Kay, and why he had not been mentioned in the TV movie "Mists of Avalon." I was just curious to ask would you make any notion to tell about Kay or any of Arthur's relatives in a Pendragon spinoff?
Greg responds...
In flashback, at least, yes. I always was fond of Kay.
Anonymous writes...
I meant his New Camelot knights not that of old Camelot.
Greg responds...
Oh.
Well, still, no.
Anonymous writes...
Care to list the names of Arthur's knights?
Greg responds...
All of them?
No, I do not care to do that.
(Do your own research, pal.)
Anonymous writes...
Is Morgana at the Gathering on Avalon? What about Nimue?
Greg responds...
One is. One isn't.
Anonymous writes...
Was the number of the search for Merlin episodes suppose to be around the number of World Tour episodes?
Greg responds...
I haven't quantified it at all.
Anonymous writes...
Does Duval or the Illuminati know where Merlin is?
Greg responds...
No.
Anonymous writes...
It seems from the answers that you've given that you don't have any plans for the Green Knight is my assumption true? If so why don't you have any plans for him?
Greg responds...
I do have plans for him. Now.
I didn't when I first started that "Guess the Arthurian survivors" contest YEARS ago. Because, I had forgotten about him. But halfway through the contest I remembered him. And in the intervening years (YEARS) I've had plenty of time to figure out what to do with him.
KW Keller writes...
Well, I'm not Todd, but in response to the history of Excalibur, Geoffrey of Monmouth's "Caliburn" is thought by some to be derived from the Welsh "Caledfwlch" (Breton "Kaledvoulc'h"), or from the Irish "Caladbolg" or "Caladcholg." Caledfwlch appears in several Welsh Arthurian stories, especially "Culhwch ac Olwen." Caladbolg, "hard dinter," was the lightning sword of Fergus Mac Roth. Caladcholg was a similar sword owned by Fergus Mac Leti. Various people have argued at one time or another that the modern idea of Excalibur was taken from one of these sources.
Greg responds...
Interesting.
Anonymous writes...
Who are Morgana's parents?
How can she beat Merlin? I mean Merlin is the son of Oberon who is one of the most powerful fay. Does that mean she also has a unique parentage like Merlin?
Greg responds...
Who said she 'beat' him and what does that even mean?
Anonymous writes...
What class of fay is Lady of the Lake? Power class?
Greg responds...
This ain't an R-P game, my friend.
Anonymous writes...
Does the Lady of the Lake have any biological children? Have you mentioned the name of any of her children on Askgreg?
Greg responds...
YOu are now officially making me sleepy.
Entity writes...
Hi Greg,
Don't let the death of Team Atlantis get you down, true brilliance is never recognized in its own time.
Anyway, I was wondering about your personal opinion on something: pop Arthurian Legend. First there was the "Merlin" miniseries, now there's another one on TNT called "The Mists of Avalon." Both take the traditional story of King Arthur and try to present its elements of magic to contemporary TV audiences in the guise of religion. Instead of accepting magic as a part of the legend, which I guess TV execs think is too "silly" or maybe even "controversial," they turn the Arthur legend into a morality tale about the old verse the new, Paganism verse Christianity, imagination verse logic, etc... take your pick.
What's your take? Do you think this is a constructive and innovative approach to telling the story, or a distracting and childish one?
Greg responds...
Well, I haven't seen Mists and have only seen pieces of Merlin. So I can't judge either series.
I think you tip your hand on your opinion, however.
In and of itself, the approach has some potential. It's about execution. And the ideas aren't mutually exclusive. Look at EXCALIBUR (the movie). It has elements of both approaches, and I think it's wonderful. (Just saw it again recently. It really holds up.)
Todd Jensen writes...
One question which I'll confess I've occasionally found myself asking about Arthur's quest for Merlin. Why does Arthur feel that he really needs Merlin by his side again? After all, in the traditional legends, he spent the majority of his reign without Merlin being there (Merlin's departure in the "Arthurian canon" took place almost directly after Arthur married Guinevere and set up the knights of the Round Table), and fared well enough on his own (not to mention that I don't think that Merlin could have seriously prevented the fall of Camelot even if he had been there, seeing that it was brought about through the one thing that his magic could not overcome, the human heart, as Macbeth pointed out in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time"). Furthermore, at least some versions of the legend (including T. H. White and Roger Lancelyn Green) indicate that part of the reason why Merlin left Arthur's court (ultimately to wind up in the Crystal Cave) was because Arthur needed to stand on his own rather than constantly leaning on the wizard for help.
So why does Arthur feel that he still needs Merlin's help? (Admittedly, he does seem in a rather vulnerable situation at present, given that he's now in a world that's unfamiliar to him and very different from 6th century Britain - and he hasn't had the advantage that Macbeth had of being able to watch it change gradually and adjust accordingly - it's all been thrown upon him at once, just the way that it was on Goliath and his clan).
Greg responds...
Well, start with this. Merlin's a friend.
Do you really need any other reason?
Some of the other stuff you mentioned is good too.
Todd Jensen writes...
Do you imagine New Camelot being anything like the Savage Land in Marvel Comics (though taking its "echoes of the past" element from the mythical Arthurian Age of Chivalry than from the Mesozoic, obviously)?
Greg responds...
New Camelot? No.
zakhur writes...
I've been hearing a lot of someone called Nimue, who is she? sorry if this question been asked, but I haven't seen it in the archives
Greg responds...
Then you haven't looked in the Pendragon section.
Or read much of anything on the legends of King Arthur.
Nimue comes directly from that mythology.
Todd Jensen writes...
Have you ever read "Camelot 3000"?
Greg responds...
Yes. In fact, I worked at DC Comics when/while it was being produced (over I believe a two year or more period).
Todd Jensen writes...
You've mentioned before that one of your favorite Arthurian works, and one which you've used quite a bit as a "primary source" (it clearly was at least a major influence for your handling of Percival and Blanchefleur) was Roger Lancelyn Green's "King Arthur". Have you ever read any of R. L. Green's other rehandlings of myths and legends (he wrote one on Greek mythology, "Heroes of Greece and Troy", one on Norse mythology, "Myths of the Norsemen", and one on Robin Hood)?
Greg responds...
I have FOUND a copy of Green's Greek Myth book, but haven't had the time to read it yet. Haven't found the other two you mentioned. Some day.
Punchinello writes...
I just noticed a question you answered concerning Duval/Percival. If I had not seen the two names adjacent to one another I would never have seen any potential connection. I know that the name Percival is derived from parsi - fal or "pure fool."
I have no idea what Duval means, although I now see the structural similarity in the name.
I also have absolutely no recollection of these characters from your story. I only know the names from the context of Arthurian legend.
I like fools. It bothers me that I did not see the meaning to be decoded in the name Duval before now. I shall need to go investigate it.
Perhaps you will save me from the effort? Or at least acknowledge if you intended a connection?
Punchinello
Greg responds...
You mean the -val suffix? Yes, I did intend the connection.
As far as I can recall, the name Percival never occurs in the 66 episodes of Gargoyles that I was involved in. The revelation about him came from a contest we held here at ASK GREG. "Name the Arthurian Survivors". I believe Todd won that one, though I can't recall if he was the first to guess Percival.
Duval is mentioned only once in the series. In "The Journey". My last episode and the first episode of the Goliath Chronicles.
Lord Sloth writes...
2198 questions:
1a) how many heads do the space spawn have? Does it varry? b) Do the Space spawn's general appearance varry from one another? By alot?
2a) Is New Camelot still around in 2198? b) Are Arther's decendands running it or anything(I'll be really surprised if you answer THAT) c) Is it connected to Master Matrix?
3) Do the Illuminati still fund the Quarry men in 2198?
Greg responds...
1a. One.
1b. To them, yes.
2a. Before or after March?
2b. ---
2c. Before or after March?
3. Not saying.
Anonymous writes...
Which came first the Master Matrix or New Camelot? Who created the Master Matrix?
Greg responds...
No one created the Master Matrix exactly. It more evolved. So there's no chicken & egg thing here. It's too complex to break down into a one-sentence answer.
Things just evolve.
Gipdac writes...
I had a question/comment. This is the history of Excalibur I got from one of the most brilliant people on the face of the Earth, my English teacher, Dr. Randy Lee Eickhoff, about a year ago:
Excalibur was forged by Hephaestus in Greece around 1000 BC. Then it was taken by a band of nomads (they have a name, and I honestly can't remember it), who traveled through Europe, and ended up in England. From then on the sword was handed down from great warrior to king, etc. Then Fergus Mac Roth, a King of Ulster, gained control of the sword Excalibur, at this time it was called Caliburn. Fergus was a key player in the story of Medb (Maeve), the warrior-queen of Connacht, and Cuchullain. Later Fergus and Medb had a love affair and one day while they were making love on a raft in the middle of a lake Medb's husband found them, he picked up Fergus' sword, Excalibur, and throw it at him. The sword stabbed him through the heart, and his body, still on the raft, floated down stream. And that is how the Lady of the Lake obtained the sword.
I was just wonder if that is close to the history of Excalibur in the Gargoyles Universe.
*Just a couple of quick notes:
Most people believe that Mab and Medb could have been the same person, and anyone who enjoys Irish myths should read "The Raid" by Randy Lee Eickhoff
Greg responds...
I'd have to do my own research, and -- with all do respect to you and Dr. Eickhoff -- not just take your words for it. Some of it is new to me, some isn't.
But, hey, Todd? Does this stuff sound familiar to you?
Gipdac writes...
Okay, you'll need your timeline out, so please have it handy or don't answer these questions until you have it. Thank you.
In the Gargoyles Universe, what years were the following people born:
(all the original one's from the Arthur legends)
1) Merlin?
2) Morgana le Fay?
3) Nimue?
4) Gwenyvere?
5) Lancelot?
6) Blanchefleur?
7) Gawain?
8) Percival?
9) Galahad?
Greg responds...
Haven't pinned a single one of these down at this time. Given that I have pinned down Arthur's dates, it wouldn't be too hard to extrapolate the rest -- if by too hard you meant weeks (if not months) of research and development.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...
I already know that this isn't true, but a friend and I have a bet, and I'd like to settle this.
Morgana is not one of the Weird Sisters, is she?
Greg responds...
No.
Sloth writes...
Another one for "Pendragon".... Why does MacBeth show so much contempt for Arther after speaking so grandly of him and Merlin in "lighthouse"? By the end of the episode he sounds more like himself, but durning the race for the sword, I thought he should of treated him as more of a worthey opponent.
Greg responds...
I don't hear contempt there. Just competition for a prize that he felt he had as much a right to as Arthur did. I guess it's a matter of interpretation.
Sloth writes...
In Pendragon, Arther gives the order to fire the lightning weapon at the base of the water elemental. Once this is done, the elemental is destroyed. Since I was never good at science, explane how electrisity would destroy the elemental and leave Arther unharmed.
Greg responds...
We never said Arthur'd be unharmed. He wasn't unharmed.
But have you ever heard of the electrolysis of water?
Anonymous writes...
Who has more magic? Merlin or Morgana?
Greg responds...
I know I've answered this before, but here goes.
I think the Thing is on an average day, stronger than the Hulk. But the madder Hulk gets the stronger he gets. So ultimately the Hulk is stronger. But that doesn't mean the Thing can't take him. Ben Grimm knows his stuff.
There. I hope we've finally put that question to rest.
Anonymous writes...
Is it a coincidence that both New Camelot and the Master Matrix are in Antarctica?
Greg responds...
Nope.
Anonymous writes...
What does the Master Matrix and the LXM robots have to do with the Matrix that we see in Walkabout?
Greg responds...
A lot.
matt writes...
why did you and the writers decide not to have Macbeth join Arthur as one of his knights?
Greg responds...
Mostly because Macbeth didn't seem to want to join.
But also because I didn't need him there as a regular in Pendragon. Frankly, he and Arthur have too much in common.
Arthur and Griff and later Blanchefleur and Merlin seemed like a good core group to start with.
Macbeth makes for a good guest star.
Anonymous writes...
Have the names of Oberon and Titania's kids been mentioned in AskGreg?
Greg responds...
Two have. Merlin and Fox. Oh, you mean the kids they had together?
NO. Not that I can recall.
Anonymous writes...
Did Ra's al Ghul of Batman fame influence the character of Duval/Percival?
Greg responds...
No.
Todd Jensen writes...
When you came up with the notion of having King Arthur and Griff join forces, did you ever notice the parallel between their backgrounds in that both, during their original time periods, were defending Britain from Germanic invasions (King Arthur versus the Saxons and Angles at Badon, Griff versus the Nazis in the Battle of Britain)?
Greg responds...
I don't know. I mean it's all info in my head. But I can't be sure if I was conscious of it.
Mostly, Griff just seemed like Round Table material.
Vashkoda writes...
You've already given away that Morgana is a changeling. Have any other changelings appeared in the series? Will any appear in the spinoffs you've planned?
Greg responds...
Nimue.
Anonymous writes...
1.Why can't Oberon and Merlin get along? Whose fault is it?
2.Does Merlin recognize Oberon as his father?
3.How many other children did Oberon have with mortals? Care to give the names of his children?
Greg responds...
1. Did I say they don't get along?
2. When?
3. Not confirming or denying any others at this time.
Anonymous writes...
Is Nimue a villain in Pendragon?
Greg responds...
Nothing is that black and white.
Anonymous writes...
How many episodes did you plan to dedicate to Arthur' search for Merlin?
Greg responds...
I didn't have it quantified.
Anonymous writes...
Who created the stone dragon in Pendragon? Do we know their names?
Greg responds...
Is that the royal We?
Anonymous writes...
Is Gargoyles Merlin a prophet like the Merlin of legends?
If Morgana were to fight Merlin who would win
Greg responds...
1. It's in there.
2. Once again, I'm not big on these kind of questions. But I think that generally, the Hulk would beat the Thing, though it's not beyond the realm of possibility for the Thing to beat the Hulk. See my point.
Anonymous writes...
How old is Merlin biologically and chronologically in 1995?
Greg responds...
Can't answer the former. Won't answer the latter.
Anonymous writes...
What powers does Excalibur have? Can it cut through anything?
Greg responds...
Anything is a big word.
Rob(the Sloth)Irwin writes...
Fine, I guess I'll keep writing while everything is fresh in my mind. The questions are fading quickly so I'll get right to it.
1.Did Arther Pendragon have any adventures in the time before Avolon sent him to London in the skiff? It dosn't seem to fit that Goliath had been all around the world by the time it took Arther to get from Avolon to London.
2.If #1's answer is yes, will you tell me what thoese adventures were?
Thanks Greg.
Greg responds...
1. Yes, very astute. Arthur had one untold adventure after leaving Avalon. He then returned to Avalon. Considered staying there. Then decided to leave again and landed in London.
2. Yeah, right.
matt writes...
in your most recent (and long awaited) batch of questions you said that a garg living at the poles in a 6-month day, 6-month night cycle would eventually adapt. do you mean the garg would adapt to be flesh for six months and stone for six months, or adapt so that occasionally the garg would be awake in daylight or asleep at night?
Greg responds...
It's all more complicated than that. It has to do with the Master Matrix and New Camelot, etc.
Vashkoda writes...
1) Who originally taught Griff's ancestors the "rookery poem" about Excalibur?
2a) Did the gargoyles that Arthur met during the years he was king also resemble lions, unicorns and griffons? b) Had he previously met any gargoyles of "Scottish stock" before he was introduced to Goliath and the Avalon clan?
3a) Was Arthur ever referred to simply as "Pendragon"? b) In the Gargoyles universe, how did the name "Pendragon" originate? In other words, what were the circumstances that led up to Arthur's father receiving that name? c) I'm asking the obvious, but what symbol and/or heraldic beast would be featured on Arthur's coat of arms?
Greg responds...
1. The three.
2a. Many did.
2b. Yes.
3a. Yes.
3b. Not going into that now.
3c. Look at the character. But Arthur was a Pendragon and the Bear of Britain.
Anonymous writes...
Who are Morgana"s biological parents?
Who are the Green Knight's biological parents?
Greg responds...
Not saying on the former. Don't know on the latter.
Anonymous writes...
How does Arthur get around in Pendragon? Where does he get the transportation to go to Antarctica, Stonehenge and Tintagel? Does Arthur have a base before New Camelot is found? Care to tell us where it is?
Greg responds...
Arthur is largely baseless. Though Griff and his friends are always welcome in London.
Transportation is an issue in the show. An on-going issue.
Anonymous writes...
What purpose does Blanchefleur serve in Arthur's quest?
Why does she join Arthur?
Greg responds...
Not telling now.
Anonymous writes...
What other characters did you plan to add as regulars in Pendragon besides Griff, Merlin, Arthur and Blanchefleur?
Greg responds...
As regulars? No one, initially.
Anonymous writes...
1. Did you ever have a love-interest planned for Arthur?
Who would she or they be?
Greg responds...
1. YEs.
Anonymous writes...
Were the Illuminati the only villains you planned for Pendragon or were there more? Care to list a few? Would they include a few down to Earth ones such as gangsters?
Greg responds...
I always have multiple villains planned. And no I don't care to list them.
Anonymous writes...
Care to tell us how old Merline is biologically?
Greg responds...
When?
Anonymous writes...
1.Who made Castle Carbonek? Are they the same guys that made the Grail? If not who are they?
2.How does time pass there? Is it like Avalon where a hour there is a day in our world?
3.Who controls the travelling? The fisher king? If no one controls it then does it work like Avalon where it takes you to where you're needed?
Greg responds...
1. You mean who built it? Not going into that now.
2. Time passes normally.
3. The Fisher King controls it, but he has limits. And sometimes it gets out of his control.
Anonymous writes...
1.Which human specifically made the grail? If you can't tell us then could you tell us if he was ever mentioned in the show or the askgreg archives?
Greg responds...
I'm not sure that the grail was significant when it was made. It's what it was used for, right?
Todd Jensen writes...
In your most recent set of answers (as of this point), you pretty much confirmed what many of us have suspected for some time - that in your vision for the Arthurian portion of "Gargoyles", Nimue was the daughter of Gorlois and Igraine whom Morgana was secretly swapped for. Just out of curiosity - did Merlin know when he was associating with her that she was his pupil Arthur's half-sister?
Greg responds...
Not answering that at this time.
Anonymous writes...
So have you planned a crossover with the casts of Pendragon, Bad Guys, Gargoyles and New Olympians appearing in the same episode?
Greg responds...
Sort of.
Anonymous writes...
What happened to the mortal child traded for Morgana? Is it dead?
Greg responds...
No.
Anonymous writes...
What was that thing in Pendragon? Was it a actual dragon or was it a gargoyle seeing that it was protecting the sword?
Greg responds...
Neither. It was a stone statue brought to life by powerful magicks.
Anonymous writes...
You said that there was actually an internal reason for all these heroes being reawakened in the Gargoyles Universe including Goliath and the clan. Could you tell us the reason? If not was this the same reason that Arthur was originally taken to Avalon?
Greg responds...
I could. I won't right now though.
There's connective tissue all over the place, but I don't feel like elaborating.
Todd Jensen writes...
You mentioned that the London gargoyles (some of whom look like lions) were already in Britain during King Arthur's reign. In the Gargoyles Universe, does this explain the occasional presence of lions in Arthurian romances - i.e., the lions mentioned in Malory et al weren't really lions?
Greg responds...
Potentially. Have to take every event on a case by case basis.
Anonymous writes...
Why would Arthur go to Stonehenge to look for Merlin?
Greg responds...
He's lookin' under every rock.
Super-man writes...
Note:
You said that you didn't like Morgan le Fay and Ceasar being Oberon's parents and that it was chronilogically impossible. But the myth probably meant Morgan in her fay, queen of Avalon form and the queen of Avalon is Oberon's mother so the myth isn't entirely impossible in the gargoyles universe
Greg responds...
Huh? Are you conflating Morgan and Mab?
Cuz I'm not.
Vasy writes...
Greg I have a question on the three ladies:
Morgana, Nimue and Lady of the Lake are the three ladies which took Arthur to Avalon correct?
Are the three ladies the wired sisters?
Greg responds...
Correct.
I'm not sure about these "wired" sisters.
But they're not the Weird Sisters, if that's what you mean.
Anonymous writes...
Did you ever have plans to introduces figures from major religons such as Hinduism, Islam and Christianity?
Greg responds...
I already have.
Anonymous writes...
Is the Magus actually dead? Couldn't the magic in the hollow cave heal him like it healed King Arthur?
Greg responds...
Dead as far as I'm concerned. (And that ain't what healed Arthur.)
Anonymous writes...
Which one of the four races created the Holy Grail? Why?
Greg responds...
Humans. Originally, it was just a cup. Why is any cup created?
Anonymous writes...
Who are the Green Knight's parents?
Who are Morgan le Fay's parents?
Who are Nimue's parents?
Greg responds...
1. Haven't thought about it.
2. Gorlois and Ygraine thought they were her biological parents. Uther was her step-father.
3. Gorlois and Ygraine were her biological parents.
Anonymous writes...
Did you ever plan a crossover between the Redemption Squad, Gargoyles, Pendragon and New Olympians?
Greg responds...
You mean all at once?
Anonymous writes...
How similar is Arthur's New Roundtable to the Avengers/JLA?
Greg responds...
Not at all.
Anonymous writes...
Did you plan to have any characters that we meet in the mist of avalon episodes get knighted by King Arthur?
Greg responds...
Maybe.
Anonymous writes...
Are the resemblances that King Arthur has with Captain America on purpose?
Greg responds...
Huh?
Jim R. writes...
Will King Arthur ever find Gwenivere if he finds Merlin?
Greg responds...
What era are we talking about?
Matt "KS" Maybray writes...
Greg,
This is my first time asking a question here, so be gentle...
It's been mentioned that in "Bad Guys", The Director would've been fighting against the Illuminati's Mr. Duval. Since you had planned for Duval to be Sir Percival, was the Director going to be any notable character from history, mythology, or literature? If so, then who?
In closing, I'd just like to thank you for helping create something that I've had much enjoyment from these past 7 years. There hasn't been any show quite like "Gargoyles" since (unfortunately).
Greg responds...
No.
(Was that gentle?)
And thanks. Glad you've stuck around.
Baal writes...
Hey, um. Sorry about Question 2 in my Angela post.
I guess you DID say that you weren't gonna answer in questions about 2198 until the contest was over. (Although SOME people are already asking questions.
Here are some questions of my own.
1. Do Arthur and his comrades go on a quest to retrieve the Holy Grail. (I think I've seen yes in the archive). If so, does this pit the against Percival/Duval, the leader of the Illuminati.
2. Does Macbeth get involved.
Greg responds...
1. Eventually and yes.
2. A bit.
Jim R. writes...
Where does King Arthur expect to find Merlin if he does continue to persue him?
Greg responds...
He's largely clueless, frankly. He tried to find him back in the day, and couldn't.
(The Guppi) writes...
Does the Holy Grail have anything to do with the Golden Cup Bakery? [*LOL*] :>
Greg responds...
Shhhh.
Ithica writes...
Would Duval make any attempt to make his identity known to King Arthur? Arthur was Percival's great uncle, and Percy was one of Art's best knights, so would they make contact of any sort?
Greg responds...
Contact would be made.
Todd Jensen writes...
One thought that I had on Duval for a while after you mentioned his parentage in your viewpoint, and finally remembered to post here.
Since in your version of the Arthurian legend, Percival/Duval is Gawain's son, that means that he'd thereby be related to Arthur, as his great-nephew. (I've got to admit, while I knew from the start - since you mentioned it - that Duval had once been one of Arthur's friends, I hadn't suspected that he'd also be family).
Greg responds...
Yep.
matt writes...
Griff was going to be Una's mate but dissappeared before they could and she ended up mating with Leo, correct? if so, isn't that quite wierd for all three of them now that Griff is back, he obviously must've had feelings for Una and now her and his friend are together. would all this have anything to do with the reason Griff decided to stay with Arthur and not return to London?
Greg responds...
Yes. And yes.
matt writes...
would Macbeth ever reconsider Arthur's invitation to be one of his knights?
Greg responds...
Not on an ongoing basis, but when needed, certainly.
Todd Jensen writes...
What angle do you take (in general) on the imprisonment of Merlin in the Crystal Cave by Nimue? The Malory version where she locks him up because she fears that he will seduce her, or the Roger Lancelyn Green version where it's more Nimue giving an old, exhausted wizard rest from his labors in bringing Arthur to the throne?
Greg responds...
Not saying.
Todd Jensen writes...
Just out of curiosity, where do you imagine the original Camelot (the sixth century one) being located in the Gargoyles Universe? Winchester (as per Malory), South Cadbury in Somerset (the current trend thanks to Leslie Alcock's excavations there in the late 60's), or somewhere else entirely?
Greg responds...
Though I've read many theories, I have not sat down to run the research to answer the question independently for myself.
Ithica writes...
About Milord Arthur:
Who provided the voice for King Arthur? I loved his performance, and I'd like to know his name.
Also, my favorite thing about him is the way you designed him. It's the best visual embodiment of the Pendragon that I've yet seen. What talented person or persons designed him?
Thanks.
Greg responds...
Ryan St. John did the voice.
I'm fairly certain, that Greg Guler designed the character, but I can't be 100% on that. It was a long time ago.
Ithica writes...
A little while ago, I asked you why you thought Gawain filled the bastard role. You answered "It's his behaviour. His ability to be the hero or the villain depending on the situation. His betrayal of family. His defense of family. He's so torn. He's such a bastard."
Now that I think about it, you're assessment of his hero/villain tendencies is rather accurate. But the only instance of that I can think of is at the end, near Logres's fall, when Launcelot slew Agravaine, Gaheris, and Gareth. Is that what you're assessing from? Because then, I understand your thoughts. He's forgives Launcelot for the death of Agravaine because A deserved it; he wants to kill L for the deaths of Gaheris and Gareth because they didn't deserve it, which is understandable but wrong. In the first case he acts nobly and in the second case he acts vindictively and vengefully. So there I see your reasoning.
But is that the only instance from which you drew your conclusion? Because that's the only point in time I can think of that marks Gawain as a bastard. Otherwise, he seems to me the epitome of courty knighthood, and my favorite of Lot and Morgawse's children. Do you have any other instances from which you draw your bastard conclusion?
Also, you indicated that his "betrayal of family" was a factor. If you'll pardon my ignorance, do you mean when he wasn't angry over the death of his brother Agravaine?
Thank you---
Greg responds...
Arthur's family too, by the way. And he let's his thirst for vengeance push Arthur into an untenable situation.
Mordred was also family. Draw your own conclusions.
Gaheris and Gareth agree to act as Guenivere's unarmed "guard" at her execution. Gawain refuses to participate at all. He lets them go out without swords.
But Gawain was always a bit of a work-in-progress. Particularly when he was young. His experience with Lady Ragnall, whom I view as Percival's mother, is a case in point. He's a bastard who makes good in that story. And he still winds up alone.
I may be reading between the lines, more than a little, but I often see archetypes floating through various pantheons. Theseus is the perfect bastard in Greek Mythology. But when you get to Arthurian times, despite the surface similarities, Arthur just doesn't totally fit the bill for me. And though there are a TON of other potential candidates, including (depending on your interpretation) Merlin, Percival, Mordred, Galahad, etc., I still feel like this time out "THE BASTARD" decided that he wanted a shot at having a family. He bypassed the obvious choices and incarnated as Gawain. And nothing really changed for him.
Just how I see it.
Yttrium writes...
Hello, Greg;
I must confess I am not at all well-versed in Arthurian legend, though I am working toward it, so I was immediately curious about your PENDRAGON spin-off. I have an Arthurian-related question or two for you.
1a) I recently finished a version of GAWAIN AND THE GREEN KNIGHT (great piece of literature, bless the book) which is my current favorite of the adventures I've read. Someone else asked about the current status of the Green Horse already, so I won't ask again. But what about the Green Knight's lady, who by his will tempted Gawain and gave him the green lace? Is she a fairy? I mean, if the Knight's a fae...
1b) Is the aforementioned lady still around? If not, what happened to her?
2) Are you aware of the versions of Arthurian legends that include Phembar, Arillo, Rhayne, etc?
3) Have you read any Geoffrey of Monmouth?
Thanks,
---Ytt
Greg responds...
1. I don't want to give away any more details at this time.
2. No.
3. Yes.
LSZ writes...
Another Camelot-influenced question:
What were the weather conditions of Camelot?
Greg responds...
The rain could never fall til after sundown.
July and August could not be too hot.
(Those were the answers you were looking for, right?)
LSZ writes...
A weird question, but I just finished the movie version of Camelot, so: can King Arthur of the Gargoyles universe sing well?
Greg responds...
I don't know. I guess it depends if John St. Ryan can sing well.
Anonymous writes...
How old is Merlin biologically in 1996?
Greg responds...
I'm not saying at this point.
Oberon writes...
1) Why did Morgana Le Fay and Nimue ever agreed to take Arthur to Avalon?
2)Did someone have to convince them?
3) if so, who?
Greg responds...
1. I'm not going to reveal that now.
2. No details at this time.
3. It's a secret.
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