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This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Edward the Confessor dies of natural causes. His brother-in-law, Harold Godwinson, succeeds him.
Goliath, Lexington, Bronx and Brooklyn return to Castle Wyvern atop the Eyrie Building but are intercepted by Elisa Maza, Hudson and Broadway, who finally manage to convince Goliath to follow Elisa to their new home at the Clock Tower above the 23rd Precinct -- but not before Goliath warns Owen Burnett that the clan will some day return. David Xanatos is finally released from jail that morning and returns to the castle. He starts serving his probation. Later that day, Xanatos goes to Gen-U-Tech Systems to observe Anton Sevarius' progress. Sevarius has successfully cloned Goliath and begins to accelerate the growth of "Thailog".
Hudson and the Trio have been searching for Goliath and Bronx to no avail. Broadway, realizing that Elisa Maza is missing too, brings her cat Cagney back to the Clock Tower. Brooklyn resists taking the reins of leadership, but he does go to visit Talon and Maggie the Cat in the Labyrinth, where homeless humans like Al, Chaz and Lou have joined the Mutates in what is supposed to be a free society of outcasts. Broadway visits Matt Bluestone next, but Matt is equally in the dark over his partner's disappearance. Lex eavesdrops on Elisa's parents and learns they are also worried. Meanwhile on Queen Florence Island, Elisa and the gargoyles find each other again, and then find Grandmother as she transforms into the Thunderbird. Grandmother later admits that she was undergoing these transformations to convince Natsilane to take up arms against Raven to save the island. When Natsilane meets the gargoyles, he is convinced. The gargoyles and Natsilane battle Raven and drive him away. With Raven gone, Grandmother is able to heal the island. The travelers again return to Avalon, where it is six in the morning, causing Goliath, Angela and Bronx to turn to stone.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Macbeth attacks the gargoyles at the Eyrie Building, capturing Lexington, Brooklyn and Bronx. Elisa Maza, who is largely recovered but still on crutches from being shot, again tries to convince Goliath to leave the castle. He won't listen, but after Goliath departs to find the others, she manages to convince Hudson and Broadway that the castle is no longer their home. They take the Grimorum Arcanorum from Owen Burnett and leave the castle. Meanwhile, Bronx escapes and leads Goliath back to Macbeth's mansion. Macbeth and Goliath battle, Macbeth revealing that his true target is Demona. Macbeth's mansion is damaged by fire, and the gargoyles escape.
The travelers depart Avalon again, arriving on Queen Florence Island off the west coast of Canada, where they immediately encounter Grandmother in the form of a Sea Monster. Elisa is separated from the others and washes ashore, where she is found by Grandmother and Natsilane, the chief of the local Haida band. Elisa is alive, but gravely ill. Grandmother helps heal her. That night, Goliath, Angela and Bronx encounter Raven posing as a gargoyle.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
King Arthur leaves Avalon on his own to explore the world. The Weird Sisters are forced to release Macbeth and Demona from their thrall. Goliath pushes his unconscious foes off of Avalon. They land in Paris, where Demona awakens first, sees Macbeth unconscious and flees. Minutes later, a confused Macbeth regains consciousness. Realizing where he is, he retreats to his Chateau on Paris' famous Left Bank. (Neither retain any memories of events that have taken place between November 12th, 1995 and January 1st, 1996.) Meanwhile, Goliath takes possession of the Eye of Odin and the Phoenix Gate, then releases the Weird Sisters, who vanish. Goliath leaves Tom, Katharine and Gabriel in charge of Avalon and the Avalon Clan. Only Angela chooses to join Goliath, Elisa and Bronx aboard the skiff. They begin their "World Tour" while attempting to find their way home from Avalon. Avalon sends Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx to Wyvern Hill in Scotland. There the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain attempt to drive Goliath insane and steal his life force.
Have you given any thought as to where legendary characters from Asian cultures like the Monkey King from Journey to the West and beings like Japanese snow women and nine tailed foxes fit in the gargoyle universe? How did the Children of Oberon fit into Japanese, Chinese, and Korean legends?
I've given a little thought to it -- but admittedly, very little. As we progress, I hope to do more research and give more thought to it.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Just after midnight, Angela and the Trio head out into the city. They're glad that both Goliath and Maggie are recovering.
Just before dawn, Shari tells Thailog the story of Goliath, Angela, Elisa and Bronx's journey from Avalon to the Himalayas in Tibet - where they encountered Coldstone - and of their subsequent arrival in Shambahla.
At dawn, Coldsteel joins Xanatos at Scarab Corp.
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With issue six, we finally got to read one of your Untold Tales for Gargoyles. Some others that I've heard about on Ask Greg:
1. You never gave a title, but this was set in New York during The Avalon World Tour. You mentioned that this story had Xanatos taking advantage of Goliath's absence.
2. Hobgoblins Of Little Minds.
3. The Weird Macbeth.
4. Arthur's adventure between Avalon Part Three and Pendragon.
5. The Multitrickster story.
Aside from those five, are there any other stories that you planned for the first two season, but never got to? Not asking for spoilers, just a yes or a no. I'll understand if you don't want to answer though.
Well, saying I "planned them for the first two seasons" isn't really accurate for ANY of the above, including 3 and 5, which we considered doing in season two. But I have other stories from that era like 1 and 4 that I can/will tell some day. But 2, 3 and 5 haven't happenned yet in the continuity.
How did the Avalon travellers in issue 6 get from the wash basin of the monastery to Shambhalla? Is there suppose to be another unpublished part in the adventure that the ending is teasing about?
AAAAHHHH! Coldsteel's back in town.
Coldstone and Coldfire can't be far behind. I often wondered why Xanatos would create such a powerful body for "Iago" but I realized, Remembered in this issue that Xanatos may not be directly working against Goliath, that doesn't make him friendly. (My mind flashed back to "Our enemies conspire together for control of this body")
On to the comic...I think that that was THE weirdest Avalonian arrival I have ever seen. (Though I'm sure that Tom prolly went through a few odd ones in his quest for Goliath over the centuries)
Sangpo wouldn't know a yeti if it bit him on the butt :) Master Dawa was a very amusing monk, and mentally I picked out a set of voice actors I like to "play" them in my head.
The red and white eyes told me it was Coldstone. (That and the fact that I realized that this was the "lost" Marvel Comics story)
The misprinted scene was distracting for me, but I was able to descern from the dialog what was supposed to be happening. I hope that you post that address for the replacement comic or something.
"Biological Son" that's what did it. I think that Coldstone might have been willing, and certainly wanted to come with G and the Avalon crew, but the thought of putting his children in danger...it was just too much for him. So he posed as Iago.
Shambala!!! I know that here in the west we call it Shangri-la! Did anything interesting happen there, or did Elisa take them straight back to Avalon.
Thailog's amusment amuses me. That Shari girl is scary, she knows just how to get his goat right before he turns to stone. On a side note, for some reason he didn't see his Toga as part of him so it didn't go stone? He'll have to get a new one at sunset, and they can't be cheap.
Guess that's all for now, at least on Reunion. Can't wait for Bad Guys. (Mid November?)
You asked if anything interesting happened in Shambahla...?
I like to think so.
This is something I've been thinking over for a while.
In a lot of the Top 10 lists on the Gargoles Fan site, people mention the fact that the Avalon Quartet spend months on that skiff without any side effects(starvation/filthy cloths/diseases<mostly in Elisa's case>).
This may be a rant, but I think the answer's obvious: it's MAGIC! If Avalon sends ya where you need to be, one would think she would want you in good health, and would thus keep you from hungering, getting sick and making sure that you stay tolerably(sp?) clean.
Am I on the right track?
Uh... not really. Between each journey they went to Avalon, where they could eat, wash, sleep, etc. In addition, some of the places they went allowed for these things as well. For example, one assumes that the reason Elisa briefly appears in a kimono in Bushido is because her regular clothes were being washed.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath, Angela, Elisa and Bronx depart Avalon. While aboard the skiff and en route to their next destination, Goliath collapses. In what seems to him like hours, but actually lasts mere seconds, Goliath sees a nightmarish vision of the year 2036 generated by Puck in order to trick Goliath into turning over the Phoenix Gate. Goliath tosses the Gate into the time-stream to prevent Puck - or anyone else - from getting it.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Oberon defeats Angela, Gabriel and Goliath and returns them to his Palace. But Tom and Katharine use the iron bell to bring Oberon to his knees. An agreement is reached that will allow Tom, Katharine and the Avalon Clan of Gargoyles to remain on the island as Oberon's Honor Guard. Oberon promises to never use his magicks directly against any member of Goliath's clan. Titania and Oberon renew their vows of marriage, and Oberon initiates the Gathering of the Third Race.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath, Angela and Gabriel attempt to confront Oberon, but he is too powerful for them, and they are forced to flee. Meanwhile - working off clues provided by Titania - Tom, Elisa, Katharine and Ophelia begin forging an iron bell to use against Oberon.
There is one question I have about the episode Bushido that I have been meaning to ask. After Elisa & the rest of the protectors of the Japanese clan are knocked unconcious, wake up, realize Taro has taken the gargoyles, and determine the location that Taro has taken the gargoyles, why does it take them seemingly to near sun-rise to get there? Was Taro's gargoyle theme park that far away from their village?
ALL those steps took longer than you're making it sound, especially the waking up part.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The travelers find themselves aboard the skiff on a beautiful lake.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Hardicanute, the son of Canute and Emma, succeeds to the throne of England, replacing his late half-brother Harold Harefoot.
The Mazas attempt to inform the Tribal Police about the soil carving but are again confronted by the Trickster - who is quickly captured by Coyote 4.0. The gargoyles attempt to rescue the Trickster, but it is Peter who fools Coyote 4.0 into releasing his namesake. The Trickster then tricks the robot into destroying itself. Xanatos is forced to flee. That morning, Peter visits the grave of his father Carlos. That evening, the four travelers again return to Avalon and immediately turn around and depart again to avoid the imminent Avalonian sunrise.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Peter and Beth make bail in the morning and return to Beth's apartment, where they find Elisa waiting. That evening, the gargoyles awaken and are introduced to Elisa's family. Together the Mazas and the gargoyles again attempt to find out what Xanatos is up to. Goliath and Angela discover the soil carving but are captured by Coyote 4.0. Xanatos prepares to destroy the two gargoyles and the soil carving as bait to lure the Trickster. Meanwhile, Bronx and the Mazas capture the mysterious security guard, who turns out to be the Trickster himself. He has taken on the appearance of the young Peter Maza, with whom Coyote once formed a bond during a kachina dance. Bronx and the Mazas rescue Goliath and Angela (with a little help from Coyote).
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Peter Maza arrives in Arizona to investigate Xanatos with his daughter Beth. That evening, Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx depart Avalon and arrive in Flagstaff, where Beth goes to college. Fearing that her sister might be in trouble, Elisa takes the gargoyles to Beth's apartment. Meanwhile, Xanatos finally decides to bulldoze the mystic soil carving on the land he has leased from the local tribe. Almost immediately, the Coyote Trickster magically vandalizes the building site in order to stop Xanatos. Minutes later, Peter and Beth are allowed entry onto the Xanatos construction site by a mysterious "security guard". Xanatos has them arrested for trespassing.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Just before dawn, reporters gather outside to see Taro's "real gargoyles". Elisa and Constable Hiroshi break into the theme park and help Goliath and the other gargoyles escape. Realizing that he had been duped, Yama battles Taro, and leaves him to face the reporters alone. With no evidence of gargoyles, Taro is humiliated. Elisa returns to Ishimura after sunrise and departs for Avalon, taking the sleeping Goliath, Angela and Bronx along. It is night when they arrive, and the gargoyles soon wake up. That evening in Ishimura, the gargoyles hold a council meeting with their human neighbors. Yama is banished until his honor can be restored. And the gargoyles and humans agree to resume the study of Bushido.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The travelers leave Avalon and arrive in Ishimura, Japan. There they meet the Ishimura Clan of Gargoyles who have lived in peace with their human neighbors for generations. At sunrise, Goliath, Angela and Bronx turn to stone alongside their new cousins. But minutes later, their human guardians are attacked by ninjas hired by Taro, a Japanese businessman who grew up in Ishimura. All the gargoyles are stolen. They awaken inside a Gargoyle Theme Park that Taro has built. Yama, second-in-command to Kai, the leader of the Ishimura Clan, tries to convince everyone to stay in the park. Goliath, Angela and Bronx attempt to leave, but are gassed and imprisoned by Taro. Beth Maza calls her father Peter and asks him to come to Arizona to investigate the local Xanatos Construction project.
Thank you very much for sharing the dates for the various stops along the world tour. Obviously, we didn't get to see every stop along the world tour.
1)On the average, was each stop on the world tour (including the ones we don't know about) roughly 1-2 days?
2)Aside from the traveler's meeting up with Coldstone, do you have any more of the off-screen world tour stops worked out?
1. Watch the episodes and decide for yourself.
2. Yes. But there's only really one other stop, unless you're counting other characters like Arthur or Jade & Turquesa.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Nokkar captures Bronx and Angela. Meanwhile, Elisa is found by Lydia Duane and Arthur Morwood-Smyth. They take her back to their hotel, where she is examined by Doctor Arnada. Goliath finds her, but when Elisa fails to recognize him, Goliath is forced to kidnap her. Nokkar intervenes again, capturing Goliath and explaining his interpretation of events to Elisa. Nevertheless, Elisa (though still without her memories) comes to believe in Goliath. She helps rescue the gargoyles from Nokkar and is eventually able to convince him that her friends are not servants of the Space Spawn. She also encourages Nokkar to befriend Duane, Morwood-Smyth and Arnada. The travelers depart Easter Island, and Goliath just manages to cast the spell that will send them back to Avalon before the sun rises. When they arrive on the mystic island, it is already night. Nevertheless, it takes a few hours before Goliath, Angela and Bronx awaken. During this time, Elisa's memory returns.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Elisa, who had been working throughout the Avalonian day to help Jade and Turquesa transplant the rain forest's flora, rejoins Goliath, Angela and Bronx on the skiff. They depart Avalon again and Elisa falls asleep en route to their new landing: Easter Island. While Goliath and Angela explore, Elisa is taken into custody by Nokkar, an alien sentinel based on Easter Island, who has mistaken the gargoyles for a hostile alien invasion force. When Elisa tries to explain that the gargoyles are her friends, Nokkar assumes Elisa has been brainwashed. He wipes her mind clean, temporarily giving her amnesia. Then he sets her free.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
In order to flush out the Coyote Trickster, Xanatos Construction begins work on the Arizona property it has leased from a local Native American Tribe. The new Coyote 4.0 robot is on hand to capture the Trickster. But because Xanatos has, at this time, no real intention of destroying the Trickster's soil carving, the true Coyote does not show up.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Broadway and Lex defeat Hyena and take custody of the Amulet, leaving Hyena for the cops. And in Guatemala, the gargoyles and Elisa battle Jackal. At sunrise, Jackal briefly believes he has the upper hand when Obsidiana turns to stone. But in reality, she had merely lost her pendant. Bronx recovers it, and he, Zafiro, Jade and Turquesa dispatch Jackal. As a result, Vogel decides to cancel Cyberbiotics' rain forest operation. After sundown, the travelers depart. But they bring Jade and Turquesa along to transplant samples of the rain forest flora in Avalon. They arrive on the mystic island at dawn and Goliath, Angela and Bronx sleep through the Avalonian day. Elisa introduces Jade and Turquesa to Princess Katharine and the Guardian, and all spend the day scouting Avalon for a good location for the rain forest transplants.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
At sunrise, Goliath, Angela and Bronx turn to stone. But the Mayan gargoyles wear magic pendants that allow them to remain flesh, thanks to a missing Mayan Sun Amulet. During the day, Elisa watches Zafiro scare farmers away from the forest. Meanwhile, Hyena heads for New York in order to break into a museum and destroy the Sun Amulet. She's spotted by Broadway and Lexington.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx leave Avalon and arrive in the rain forests of Guatemala. There they encounter Zafiro, Obsidiana, Jade and Turquesa, the last surviving gargoyles of the Mayan Clan. Together, they fight off an incursion against the rain forest by Jackal, Hyena and loggers working for Cyberbiotics, under the management of Preston Vogel.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The travelers depart Avalon and land on the hidden island of New Olympus. Taurus, the New Olympian Chief of Security, arrests Elisa - simply for being human. Boreas, the leader of New Olympus, releases Elisa but refuses to allow her to leave the island.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath challenges Odin, and the two "gods" do battle. Goliath comes close to killing Odin, Elisa, Angela and Bronx, but comes to his senses at the last moment and removes the Eye. Odin places it back in his empty eye socket, neutralizing the Eye's transformative powers. Reconciled with his former opponent, Odin rides Sleipnir up the Rainbow Bridge at sunrise. The gargoyles and Elisa spend the day in Norway. When the sun sets they return to Avalon.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Odin takes the form of a bear and attempts to battle Goliath for the Eye. He fails and so resorts to kidnapping Elisa with the help of his flying horse Sleipnir. With Elisa's life at stake, Goliath reluctantly dons the Eye himself. He is transformed into an Avatar of Odin's power. That power immediately begins to change him into an uber-version of himself. He successfully rescues Elisa and chases Odin away but still refuses to remove the Eye. When the sun rises, he does not turn to stone. He quickly becomes obsessed with protecting his friends. He even generates a storm of his own to trick Elisa, Angela, Bronx and the Sturlusons into fleeing to a nearby cave, where Goliath imprisons them.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Arthur encounters Griff and the Stone of Destiny at Westminster Abbey. The Stone transports Arthur and Griff to Manhattan, where Macbeth is waiting. Macbeth is temporarily forced to flee when Hudson and the Trio intervene. The four Manhattan gargoyles join forces with Arthur and Griff to help Arthur find Excalibur. In Central Park, they encounter the Lady of the Lake, who gives them another clue to the sword's whereabouts. But Macbeth uses a Will-o-the-Wisp to listen in. He becomes determined to find Excalibur first. The quest takes them all to the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens, where Macbeth accidentally brings a giant stone dragon to life by removing a copy of Excalibur from its grip. Arthur destroys the dragon and finds the true Excalibur inside the stone beast. Macbeth swears allegiance to Arthur. Just before sunrise, Arthur knights Griff. And after the sun sets, Arthur and Griff depart on a new quest - to find Merlin. Meanwhile, Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx also depart Avalon and are drawn to Norway by the power of Odin, who appears to them in the form of an old man and tries to get Goliath to trade the Eye of Odin for a coat to keep Elisa warm. Elisa and Goliath agree to pass on his offer. But Elisa is on the verge of hypothermia. She takes shelter with local farmer Erik Sturluson and his son Gunther.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The gargoyles, Mazas and were-panthers converges on the ancient ruins of Kara Digi. There they discover that Fara was largely manipulated by the Spider-Trickster Anansi. All concerned join forces to defeat Anansi. Fara and Tea remain were-panthers but are reconciled and vow to protect the jungle. Just before sunrise, Goliath finally acknowledges Angela as his daughter. After sunrise, Elisa tells her mother everything about her life with the gargoyles. At sunset, Elisa and the gargoyles once more return to Avalon. Diane Maza phones New York, informing her husband of Elisa's situation. Peter Maza contacts Matt Bluestone and Talon. Matt contacts Brooklyn, Lex, Broadway and Hudson.
I searched the archives and didn't find an answer so I'd figured I ask.
When Renard offered to take the Gargoyles and Elisa back to Manhattan and relieve them from their fated quest, hypothetically do you think bad things would have happened as a result? Would Tom end up having to go out and find them again once the threat of Oberon appeared and end up on the quest again anyway because Avalon would send them where they need to be?
I'm not too big on hypotheticals. You can answer that question to your own satisfaction as well as I can.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath, Angela and Bronx awaken on Avalon and depart the island with Elisa. They land in Nigeria, in time to hear Elisa's mother, Diane Maza, tell the story of the Panther Queen before the Feast of the Panther Queen. The Maza reunion is interrupted by poachers, led by Tea, whose former love Fara Maku turns into a panther before their eyes. Tea shoots Fara, who escapes into the jungle. The gargoyles and the Mazas take down the poachers and attempt to protect Fara from Tea, who turns out to be another were-panther.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The Matrix, having evolved beyond Fox and Anastasia's control, threatens to spread its vision of "order" across the entire planet. Goliath and Angela reluctantly join forces with Dingo to try to rectify the situation. Ultimately, Goliath and Dingo enter the Dreamtime and convince the Matrix to abandon its pursuit of a pristine and orderly universe to seek out "Law and Order" instead. The Matrix and Dingo agree to join forces as heroes, and the Matrix merges with Dingo's armor. Elisa and the gargoyles return to Avalon, where it is morning again. The gargoyles sleep.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Adam Weishaupt founds the Bavarian Illuminati.
Hakon's spirit reaches out across the globe and senses that his descendant Wolf shares his hatred of Goliath. He summons Wolf to Wyvern Hill in Scotland. Meanwhile, Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx depart from Avalon and arrive in Australia. There they encounter the Matrix phenomena created by a pregnant Fox and her mother Anastasia Renard.
In your opinion, which one of the newly introduced characters from the Avalon World Tour did you find the most fascinating and interesting? Which ones did you want to further develop and to write more about?
They're all my children. I don't play favorites, and I have plans for all of them.
In Sanctuary, Demona says to Goliath that "New York is your protectorate, Paris belongs to me!" Why was she so possessive towards Paris? Does it hold any special meaning for her?
Yes. But mostly she's just saying, "Geez, dude, I leave the continent and you're STILL in my business?!"
Who came up with the idea for the Paris scheme against Macbeth? Thailog or Demona?
Okay, I am going to word this very carefully as I know it treads dangerously close to being an idea rather than a question. I've tried *extremely* hard to keep it within the boundaries of what's allowed. Hopefully you'll see where I'm going with all this. First, some statements:
1. Avalon sends you "where you need to be"
2. The Avalon World Tour resulted in heroes around the globe awakening to their destinies as warriors and protector-figures: the werepanthers in Nigeria, Cuchulain in Ireland, Natsilane in Canada, the Golem in Prague, etc.
3. There are currently several heroes stationed around the world. Such a collective force could come in handy if something...bad were to happen.
So, my very articulatly-worded questions are as follows:
1.a. Is Avalon a conscious entity?
b. If so, did it send Goliath and company to these particular destinations with the specific purpose of activating these heroes?
2. Does Avalon (or alternatively, you) have a master-plan in reawakening these heroes that went beyond protecting people on a global scale?
Okay, I think that should pass the censors. Thanks!
(PS, the comic came through the mail this week and I can't wait for more! From America all the way to Christchurch, New Zealand. Thanks Amazon!)
1a. I'm not going to answer this beyond what you can gather from the series.
b. It sent them where they NEEDED to be.
2. I have a master plan for all these characters, yes.
How long were Goliath, Elisa, and Bronx missing from Manhattan during the World Tour? In other words, how long was it?
I'm fairly certain this info is ALREADY in the archives, but...
Goliath, Elisa and Bronx left Central Park for Avalon on Thursday, December 28th, 1995.
They returned to Manhattan with Angela on Tuesday, July 9th, 1996.
So they were gone just over six months.
THE GATHERING, PART ONE
Hey Greg! Good to see you rambling again. I'm going to have to do a little mini-marathon to catch up, so without further ado....
When this episode first aired I had figured that this would be the ep when the Travelers (finally) got back to home base and the rest of the regular cast. I, for one, was looking forward to this, if for no other reason than to see more of my favorite character (Brooklyn).
Seeing the Gathering on Avalon was a nice little "curtain call" for the many supernatural beings the Travelers had encountered on the World Tour. Other than those we had met, Nought definitely had the most striking design (it also helped that he was pretty well featured for a walk-on).
I agree with you about Anubis--he should not be laughing. That part never seemed quite right to me.
It amuses me how, when the Banshee and Odin are fighting, Oberon at first enjoys the action immensely, but as soon as his mirror is nearly damaged he calls an end.
I may be alone in this, but I don't feel too sorry for the Banshee--she was a bit of a pain.
Selene (sp?) is in full fury mode here (I love her eagerness in offering to hunt down Puck).
I also enjoy Princess Katharine's reaction to Oberon contacting her magically.
I've always wondered what Renard thinks of Petros Xanatos. I'd imagine that they might have got along well enough, despite Renard's enmity towards David.
I hadn't figured out Titania and Anastasia were one and the same until Anastasia started talking. Only here did I recognize them as both having the same voice actress and draw the connection.
Of course I didn't get the Owen/Puck connection (or refused to--I'll explain later).
I, too, loved Vogel's reaction to Petros' question about him being related to Owen (an honest question if you ask me).
The child is born. And (for those of us who read the credits of FUTURE TENSE) we already knew his name (and what he'd probably look like all grown up).
Watching the bit with the jogger pouring out his drink after his "hallucination" this last time, I felt myself thinking that, while it's a nice old gag, I'd kind of like to see it with a new twist. For example, instead of pouring out the offending substance, after seeing the supposed hallucination, the subject instead smiles and starts chugging it.
The hypnotized guard is funny. The late Charles Hallahan did a great job with both that and Travis Marshall's snide "...both of them ex-convicts..." line. Great copy and great performance.
The confrontation in the Xanatos' bedroom was very well done. Oberon's reaction to Fox being Titania's daughter is, of course, a high point, but there are smaller things that stand out to me as well. Seeing a young and healthy Renard is a plus, and I love that Fox visibly reacts to seeing Xanatos' gun behind his back (it's small and if your attention is on Xanatos you wouldn't notice it).
As I was watching this time, I thought about Oberon's lines about how Xanatos should take comfort in having "fought admirably for [his] child against impossible odds," and that they have an hour to say good-bye before he takes Alexander away forever because Oberon is "not without a heart." These lines, looking at the words alone, are essentially making things more painful and frustrating for the Xanatos' (insult to injury, as it were), but Oberon does not intend them that way. He's actually being honest, maybe even paying compliment to them, and (in his own mind) is being nice about the whole thing.
In a way it reminds me of Xanatos' line to Derek in THE CAGE--"He's the scientist, you're just the experiment." Xanatos wasn't trying to hurt or insult Derek with that statement, he was just stating the fact of the matter. Similar to Oberon here, the words used by the speaker seem more hurtful than the speaker's intent.
I suppose all this is just a roundabout way of saying Oberon really is Xanatos' comeuppance. :-)
THE TRAVELERS FINALLY COME HOME!!!
Man, I was so happy to have them back on home territory and ready to get back to stories with the rest of the regular cast in their given setting. The World Tour was a nice way to expand and show more gargoyles, but there really is "no place like home."
When Goliath is telling about all the gargoyles around the world he sounds positively giddy. He's even SMILING! Of course he's been smiling since they got back, but here...it's just that seeing Goliath this happy is a bit uncommon.
The Trio of course has their first introduction to Angela...and I kind of suspected this would be the cause of a few waves with them. Three guys and ONE girl…oh, yeah, trouble. The bit with the chocolates is funny, too. And after tasting just ONE chocolate, Angela says, "I think I'm going to like it here." BEHOLD! The power of CHOCOLATE!!
Seeing Goliath and Elisa on her terrace...the first time I watched this, I had already decided that they were going to kiss or something by the end of the season. When G brought E back home, I thought, "This is going to be it!" Then Elisa had to be a party pooper and stop it (and my, wasn't that rain a convenient way of breaking it off).
This latest viewing, I found myself thinking, "...She left her lights on, the electric bill's going to be bad. Wait...how long have they been gone, exactly? It's a miracle she still even HAS her apartment--all the months she wasn't there to pay rent! What, does she pay several months in advance?!" Being a budding actor I have found myself struggling to cover such bills for the past two years, consequently thoughts like that have a tendency to occur to me.
Anastasia/Titania's revelation of herself to the gargoyles was a bit too quick for me, but there's only so much time in the average episode.
I love that the evacuating workers are actually questioning why they're being evacuated (I heard someone mumbling "fire drill"). It's a little detail I like.
The force field surprised me a bit, both because it's something we hadn't really seen before in the series, and because it was actually effective.
I love how Oberon goes from being amused to being pissed off when his magical bolt doesn't break the force field.
Nice effect where his eyes glow green when the lightning flashes.
Seeing Oberon wreak the one car makes me feel sorry for the car's owner (hope the owner's got good insurance). Then he puts everyone in the city to sleep and I start to wonder how many people might die (killed in a car accident, fell asleep while on a ladder or stairs, etc.) because of this. A lot of people are going to be inconvenienced by something they have absolutely no idea about (kind of like Vinnie!).
Oberon's put the city to sleep and both Petros and David Xanatos are in the "war room" with the former asking, "Has the attack begun?" I find that hilarious.
And then Oberon grows up ("Enuk-cha!"). That last shot of his laughing face through the glass of the atrium is great, especially as a cliffhanger.
Here, at the end of my ramble, it's time to talk about Owen. Now, of course he's acting weird but....
Okay, when this ep first aired I watched it with my brother. Now, I was the GARGOYLE nut in my family. My brother and mother thought it was all right and would watch it from time to time, but I was the one who lived, breathed and slept it. So, my bro and I watch this and my bro turns to me and says, "Owen's got to be Puck." And because it was my brother who said this, I disagreed with him. It wasn't that I didn't think it was possible Owen and Puck were the same (in fact, it seemed to me like a distinct and intriguing possibility), but it galled me that my brother (who would NEVER admit to being wrong) would be right about this. The fact that GARGOYLES was MY thing and not his made me more adamant.
Of course, in the end he was actually right...but I can't recall being disappointed about it in this case. It was just too cool of a twist.
On to part two, now....
One has to assume that by "Night of the Panther" at least, Elisa had made some arrangement to deal with bills and etc.
Hey Greg, I'm back to make my review of the Season II - Volume I DVD!
I've been waiting to do this since I bought it on the day of release - I'm actually a tad surprise it took so long, as opposed from last year . . .
But getting to the point: Season II, Volume I ROCKED! Several of my favorite episodes are in this DVD, including the City of Stone 4-Parter, the Avalon 3-Parter, and probably my favorite in the entire DVD: The Mirror!
My favorite bonus feature was the episode introductions, and I really wish now that Season I had them as well. They offered more behind the scenes info than I think I expected. I really did love the Gathering of the Cast and Crew: I have only seen Keith David, Johnathan Frakes, Mirina Sirtis and Sally Richardson (and you, of course) in my history of Gargoyles, so it was nice to finally attach some faces to the rest of the cast and crew as well. I loved Jeff Bennet's 3-Voice demo. Absolutely amazing and hilarious at the same time!
I loved the commentary on City of Stone. Out of the two multi-parters we got, I'm happy this one at least got the commentary. The back-story of Demona and Macbeth is perhaps the best memory I have of watching Gargoyles when I was six. Never before (and I think you mentioned this on the commentaries) had I seen the bad guys in a point of view that got me feeling sorry for both of them! The music by Carl Johnson in the Part IV (Where we see Demona in the forest fire) is definitely what I reminisce most in the four-parter. Simply legendary.
By the way, after I had watched the City of Stone four-parter commentaries, I was driven to look up the entire "Macbeth" Family Tree. I finally found the historical version, and with the knowledge of what I knew of Princess Katherine and her dad Prince Malcolm, I think I worked it all out all the way to Luach (I know, I know . . . Lulach. But I'm used to it!) and Canmore!
I don't know if it was you or someone in the Gargoyles team that did it, but I love the fact that the cover says "We Live Again." Simple, but powerful for anyone who remembers the series.
I wish Avalon had a commentary as well, but that is why I appreciate the Introductions so much.
I can't wait for the next DVD. I can't wait to have The World Tour (which I had always called the 'Avalon Odyssey' before I started going online) to my collection. So many stories in so many places . . . I love them all!
Thanks for the series, Greg. From the season premire I was lucky to witness up to today, this show STILL remains my favorite show of all time!
On to Volume II!
You're very welcome.
In House at Disney, we started calling it "The Gargoyle World Tour" as a joke. Like we'd make concert t-shirts with all the stops. (HEY, THAT'S A GOOD IDEA!!)
Thank you for taking the time to interact with us fans, and congratulations on the success of the initial DVD releases. I imagine that by the time you read this we'll have new cannononical stories from the comic book and the rest of season 2 out on DVD. It's truly a great time to be a Gargoyles fan.
I enjoyed the world tour tremendously. One thing that always struck me as particularly interesting is that the world tour didn't end because it was finished, but because Goliath et al abandoned it after Avalon sent them to Manhattan. My questions and requests:
Question 1: In Ill Met By Moonlight, did Avalon bring the crew back to Avalon because of Oberon's plan to remove the Gargoyles, or was that an in-between quest?
Question 2: Were there any negative consequences resulting from Goliath choosing not to get back on the skiff following the events of The Gathering?
Question 2a: Do you have any notions of where Avalon might have sent the skiff had our intrepid heroes continued their quest following The Gathering, or who they might have encountered?
Request 1: If the answer to 2a is yes, please share some of those thoughts with us if you care to at this time.
Question 3: Future tense seems to take place during a brief blackout Goliath experiences. Did it take place between Avalon and Manhattan immediately preceding The Gathering?
Question 3a: If the answer to 3 is no, when/where did Future Tense take place?
Question 4: Were there any destinations on the Avalon Quest that took place but were not shown in Gargoyles? In other words, might Goliath & Elisa have had a world tour adventure 'off camera?'
Request 2: If the answer to 4 is yes, please share one or two places that they were sent off camera, if you'd care to at this time.
Thanks very much for your time, and I hope to see you (have seen you by the time you read this) at The Gathering 2006.
1. Avalon only controlled their destinations upon LEAVING Avalon. But Goliath et al had to return to Avalon between each journey to try again.
2. Who can say? You may in fact be giving Avalon too MUCH credit... at least too much credit for FORETHOUGHT. If they had abandoned their quest in Prague or anywhere else, then some bad stuff might have happened where they DIDN'T show. But Avalon may not have cared WHERE the quartet were from. It might have continued to send them ad infinitum. At some point, I think it's fair to say, "Hey, I've been playing nice. But I'm home now and enough is enough."
2a. I suppose. I had stories in mind for China and Korea at least at the time. But honestly, I long ago readapted them in my head to suit where the World Tour did end.
Request 1: Shared all I'm going to at this time. BUT KEEP BUYING THAT COMIC!! ;)
3. I don't have my timeline with me, but the short answer is yes.
3a. See above.
4. Yes, they definitely did.
R2: I've mentioned the Himalayas in the past. But that's all I'm gonna say at this time.
I'm wondering about all the places visited in the world tour episodes. Did you or any of the creative staff actually see places like Prague or the Queen Charlotte Islands? Did you base them on your experiences or just do some research without actually knowing much about the places to begin with?
I've been to some of the places on the World Tour. But, no, not all. We did research on every stop -- even the fictional ones.
Specifically, I've never personally been to Prague or the Queen Charlotte Islands, but it was a big staff. Someone on the team might have been there.
How do Goliath and Angela and Elisa communicate with the Guatamalen clan and the Japanese clan? Are they all speaking English? It would make sense (sort of) if all gargoyles understood each other... but then Elisa talks with them also... could you help me here?
The short answer is that they're all speaking English. This was a production choice made at the beginning of the World Tour by Frank Paur. Later, Frank changed his mind, and we tried to convince our bosses to let us redo some stuff -- especially in "Bushido". But our bosses vetoed the idea of us going OVERbudget for the sake of putting some dialogue in subtitles, which at least a percentage of our audience couldn't read.
Since then, other ideas have occured to me...
Thanks for the "Bushido" ramble, Greg!
I hadn't realized the "Awakening" parallel (at least, not the parallel with the 994 portion of "Awakening") until you brought it up (not in this ramble, actually, but in an earlier reply here at "Ask Greg"), but it certainly works for me. And I agree that Yama, fortunately for the gargs, had held on to more of his courage and understanding of the "gargoyle way" than Demona had (I especially liked the scene where he discovers to his disgust that Taro had been lying about the first visitors to the theme park being a group of schoolchildren who wished to learn bushido - the fact that he had believed that those would be the first visitors illustrates his good intentions there).
The Ishimura gargoyles remind me a little of the tengu, a race of winged beings in Japanese legend who sometimes taught humans bushido (continuing the concept that you'd used in the Avalon World Tour of tying gargoyles in with other legends, as I mentioned before).
I agree with you that Taro isn't up to Xanatos's level. For one thing, though Xanatos might get defeated, he always did so in a way that essentially preserved his dignity; I simply cannot imagine him winding up dangling from a gigantic animatronic gargoyle in front of a crowd of reporters. (For that matter, I also can't help wondering why Taro would have wanted to have the reporters show up at dawn rather than dusk to get their first glimpse of the gargoyles; if I wanted to introduce people to gargoyles in an impressive way, I'd want it to be when they were bursting out of their stone shells in the evening. That'd be much more powerful and dramatic.)
Yama's concerns about gargoyle secrecy certainly worked for me, and although he went about solving the problem in the wrong way, I can certainly agree with him about the secrecy having its drawbacks. It does strike me that part of the reason why humans fear gargoyles is because about all that they usually see of them is their charging about growling, with eyes glowing, in battle-fury - a condition that certainly makes it easier to jump to the wrong conclusion about them. Would humans be so ready to make that mistake if they got to see more of the gargoyles when they weren't simply fighting? Also, there's the danger that if you just keep secret, somebody else might reveal you to the world under less favorable circumstances than the ones that you'd have chosen (such as claiming on a news broadcast that you blew up a police station in New York). It does make one wonder whether the gargoyles have been a little too passive in working for peace with humans, just sitting around and hoping that the humans will learn to accept them on their own, rather than actively working towards it.
And I got a big kick out of the metareferencing in Elisa's "TV stars" line, and Goliath's horrified cry of "No!" (Goliath's line was made all the funnier, for me, by Keith David's reading of it - making it sound as if Goliath truly considered such a prospect a fate worse than death!)
Perhaps one of the most important aspects of "Bushido" is that it shows a community where humans and gargoyles live together harmoniously, showing that Goliath's belief that such a thing is possible is indeed accurate. (We saw a bit of that on Avalon, but that was an unusual case - humans raising young gargoyles as if they were adopted children. This is a more "conventional" community.) Hope is indeed possible.
Again, thank you for the ramble.
A big theme of the World Tour was hope. Intentionally.
Will you please give us approximate dates for when Goliath & Elisa arrived at the various points on the world tour?
All of them...?
Let's see. I'll do it 'til I'm worn out.
Goliath, Elisa & Bronx first arrived...
--on Avalon on December 28, 1995.
Goliath, Elisa, Bronx & Angela first arrived...
--at Wyvern on January 1, 1996;
--on Queen Florence Island on January 3, 1996;
--at Loch Ness on January 16, 1996;
--in Prague on January 19, 1996;
--in Paris on January 21, 1996;
--in London on January 23, 1996;
--in Egypt on January 25, 1996;
--in Ireland on January 27, 1996;
--in Australia on May 1, 1996;
--in Nigeria on May 16, 1996;
--in Norway on May 19, 1996;
--on New Olympus on May 22, 1996;
--in Guatelmala on May 24, 1996;
--on Rapa Nui on June 10, 1996;
--in Ishimura on June 14, 1996;
--in Arizona on June 16, 1996;
--in Tibet on June 18, 1996;
--for the final time on Avalon on July 4th, 1996,
--and back in Manhattan on July 9th, 1996.
Gee, guess I have more stamina than I thought.
In the episode "Sentinel", the statues are shown facing towards the sea. I recently saw a documentary about Easter Island, and all of the statues in reality face inland. Just wondering if you are aware of this.
Guess I am now. All of 'em, huh?
In "Eye of the Storm," Odin says something to Goliath along the lines of "I did not draw your craft to this land to suffer defeat."
1. Was Odin responsible for Avalon sending the group to Norway?
2. Do the Children have power over where Avalon sends people?
2. Not generally, no.
Hey Greg, my question is simple how long are the sleeves on Elisa's black shirt? Because I noticed in the episode "The Green" she has short sleeves and in "Sentinel" she has long sleeves in the scenes where Elisa takes off her jacket. This is most likely a typo unless Elisa had time to run home and get a change of clothes. Just thought I would mention it, because unless she was caring a change of clothes with her when they first set out for Avalon or unless she stopped off on the quest to buy a new shirt I don't see how her shirt could change so drasticly.
I'd say at home, Elisa has both long and short sleeve black t-shirts, but she didn't exactly pack for the trip.
On the other hand, she did have plenty of opportunity to pick up some stuff (say in Paris) and plenty of motivation (you try wearing the same clothes for weeks on end). So maybe she bought a new shirt. Or maybe Princess Katharine sewed it for her on Avalon. (We didn't show it, but the Skiffers stopped back at Avalon between every adventure.)
My point is... if you want to view it as a mistake, be my guest. Congrats. You found one. But if you'd prefer to find an explanation for it, it's not exactly a challenge.
Ding Dong the queue is dead, well wounded anyway. I Know this is late but the asking function was closed down before I could post it and I've been awful busy lately. A well here it is.
I was interested to learn you had planned to use a Quasimodo character originally since Quasi is kind of a Gargoyle himself. I wonder if Quasi existed in the Gargoyle Universe, hey if you can have J.V.
I also was kind of disappointed you didn't give Demona's alter ego an angel themed name like Angelique like you planned in your memo. Would've made a great parallel with Angela and created another of those cool name parallels like Peter Maza and Petros Xanatos or Alexander Xanatos and Alexander
Speaking of thailog I have something to tell you that I think you'll like. When these episodes were first being aired on Disney Channel UK they seriously aired them out of order, skipping over most of the episodes between "City of Stone" and "Avolon" as well as a few pre-CoS episodes. They actually aired half the world tour before "Avolon" and even that before "Eye of The Beholder"! Luckily they sorted it out for the reruns but the point is that when I first saw "Sanctuary" I had not yet seen "Double Jeopardy" and it didn't hurt my enjoyment of this episode one bit. Sure there was some initial confusion over this Goliath look-alike (I thought at first that Thailog's "no way to treat a lady" line was Goliath's) but once the word clone popped up I immediately went "now I get it". More reason to believe that new viewers can get into "Gargoyles". In fact I think the World Tour was good at bring new viewers in, the episodes were much more stand alone
That is good news. Thanks for telling me that.
We made a conscious decision not to use Angelique. Dominique just seemed more like the kind of name Demona would choose for herself.
Hey Greg, Here's a production/episodic question, First the production question When you were producing the Avalon World Tour. Were there problems with the actors? It is because only Salli, Keith Frank and Bridgitte were the only principal cast? Next, The episodic question, Why wasn't the entire clan included in the A.W.T. it wouldn't been cool seeing the whole clan traveling the world.
There wasn't any problem with ANY of the actors. We made a creative choice to focus on a few characters for the trip. We felt it would be WAY too unwieldy to take Hudson & the Trio along as well.
Were there gargoyles once in Norway? What happened to them?
They moved and/or were killed off.
Maybe Ragnarok had something to do with it.
Why did Avalon send Goliath and Co. to Norway?
How did Odin know that they were there?
1. To return the eye to Odin.
2. He sensed his eye immediately.
My thoughts on "Monsters":
I agree with you on the animation issue (although I never noticed the parallels with "Heritage" prior to your mentioning of them), but I will admit that I thought the episode a rather fun one (if not one of the greats). Part of it, I suppose, is my fondness for British settings. (In fact, I visited Loch Ness with my parents briefly as a boy, back when we lived in Britain; didn't see anything unusual in its waters, though).
I did find it appropriate that the gargoyles would encounter the Loch Ness Monster at some point. After all, the gargoyles are Scottish "monsters" - and who's the most famous monster in all of Scotland? Made the same amount of sense as Macbeth getting in earlier, and for a similar reason.
Alas for Brendan and Margot! They run into the gargoyles even while they're on vacation! (Come to think of it, Margot also pops up briefly in Paris in "Sanctuary").
Got to agree with you over Sevarius's over-the-top performance; always a lot of fun to hear.
Count me as another one of the people who mistook Nessie for Big Daddy's daughter (partly because of the Goliath-Angela parallel).
I definitely recalled Matt's answering machine scene: either the guy doesn't clear out his phone very often, or he gets a lot of calls. At least Goliath and Elisa finally get a message home via Renard in the very next episode.
Sevarius's speculations over the Loch Ness clan (more accurate than he thought, after all) certainly become even more interesting in the aftermath of the Clans Contest (and like you, I can't help but wonder now where the local gargoyles were during this episode). We also definitely find out that Angela is Goliath's daughter (although I doubt that that surprised anybody in the audience).
I wonder if that ruined castle over Sevarius's headquarters was based on the real-life Castle Urquhart, at Loch Ness. (Probably is).
And, as you pointed out, that marked the end of the Xanatos Goon Squad, except for Bruno (and I don't recall ever seeing him again, either, after this episode); although I'll admit that I never realized that they were dead at the time. If I had, no doubt it would have impacted me much the way that the destruction of the Grimorum Arcanorum did in "Avalon" - the startlement at seeing another familiar element that had been in the series from the beginning suddenly gone. (Was the blonde female member among the casualties? She was the only member besides Bruno that really came out as much of an individual, to me).
At any rate, thanks for the latest ramble, Greg.
The castle is definitely based on Urquhart. (That's assuming that it flat out isn't Urquhart.)
I have more plans for Bruno.
During the Avalon tour, Did the travllers eat any thing during their stops?
I would imagine that on occassion they did. Certainly they did on Avalon between stops.
In the episode Golem why did you use a Rabbi to summon the Golem?
Most of the episodes have some mythology behind them. I've heard about golems before, but I've never heard of any myths associating Jewish people with the use of magic. I'm certain that it goes against their religion.
P.S. I looked to see if this question was asked, but I didn't find it in the achieves. If I've missed it could you email me at firstname.lastname@example.org
If you post my question, please remove the "P.S." text.
The Golem of Prague is specifically a Jewish legend, and Rabbi Loew, the Rabbi in the Flashback sequence, is a character of both history and legend -- and he is the traditional summoner of the Golem. I'm fairly certain any cursory search on the word Golem would reveal this.
Like most major religions, Judaism houses a multitude of interpretations, beliefs and practices. I'm Jewish, but I'm sure there are Jews out there who wouldn't agree that I was.
So you're "certainty" is a bit presumptuous.
1. In the episode "Grief", was that Egyptian city and everyone in it just simply destroyed by the Jackal Avatar? As in: dead, and never ever coming back?
2. If #1 is correct, why couldn't the Emir Avatar return life to the city's population (not to mention those crocodiles and trees) since they were brought to death as untimely as the Emir's son returning to life would have been? Why weren't those lives considered "stolen energies" as well?
3. If #1 is correct, don't you agree that it was quite an unusual move for the show to have so many people die, and then not worry about the repercussions that it usually spends a whole lot of focus on with smaller incidents (something that made the show really great)? Did you have these concerns when working on the episode?
4. If #1 is correct, did S&P have any problems with it?
5. Was that a real city? Does/Did it have a name?
6. Dose Jackal, in his normal state, still harbor ambitions of bringing the gift of death to the world, or dose he keep his feelings under some control until he becomes super natural or dons the Eye of Odin?
7. How does Hyena feel about her bro's ambitions, would she be just as malicious if given the chance.
8. I was wondering if the Sphinx actually has that ritual chamber and mastaba as shown in the show? And was that door with the secret hieroglyphics just something Xanatos Enterprises cooked up that looks cool and also keeps out intruders, or was that meant to be ancient Egyptian tech?
9. This question is a bit differn't, but I'll ask none the less. How do you think Anubis felt about Iago, Desdemona and all Othello being brought back from the dead? Did it cause a big disruption to him, the spirit world and the space-time continuum?
1. That's my thinking.
2. What's dead and gone cannot be recovered. Or something like that. (He has a great quote in the episode on this very subject.)
3. A bit. But we also wanted to hint at the devastation -- and still get away with it on an S&P basis. Had we explored the repercussions, it would have drawn too much attention to what we had done and we would not have been allowed to do it. We felt it was more important to do it and not explore as opposed to not being able to do it at all. I still have hopes to explore those repercussions somewhere, someday.
4. Not with the way we did it. See above.
5. It's more of a town than a city, but no it didn't have a name.
6. Jackal is a sociopath, i.e. he knows how to control his impulses to function in society. But given the right opportunity, he's clearly capable of anything.
7. Hyena is a psychopath, who needs her brother to control her impulses. You can decide for yourself which one is more dangerous.
8. Meant to be ancient Egyptian tech. But I've never been to Egypt, so next time you go, you can check out for yourself whether or not it's really there.
9. Anubis strikes me as a guy who has intentionally divorced himself from passion. Ghosts exist. That's not what the Emir was asking for. The ColdTrio are ghosts in various shells.
when Goliath and Co finally arrived back in New York after the World Tour, what body of water did they arrive in? the lake in Central Park? the river? the Atlantic?
Does it matter?
in "Walkabout" why didn't they just use the computer virus Xanatos obtained in "Legion" on the Matrix when they were trying to destroy it?
i have to ask, does a question like taht one bug you? i mean, i can understand how a question asked about something taht has yet to happen or why something happened a certain way is fine, but does it annoy you when we ask, "why didn't they do this..." questions? i think those kind of questions would annoy me cuz they sound so after the point, so unimportant. and when i begin to ask a question like taht i can usually look at it and answer it myself as well as you can. for instance, my question above, my guess is you'll say, "they didn't have the virus with them in Austrailia" or "they had no way to transmit the virus to the Matrix." sorry for the long ramble about nothing, i'll just stop asking these obvious and annoying questions...
boy, i'm tired :)
1. I'm not sure Fox knew about that virus.
2. You're second paragraph undercuts any annoyance I might have had with your first question.
Time to ramble...
I watched "Grief" the other night with my wife Beth, my nine-year-old daughter Erin and my six-year-old son Benny.
This episode was directed by Kazuo Terada & Takamitsu Kawamura, story edited by Michael Reaves based on his story. The teleplay is by Michael and Brynne Chandler Reaves.
Though Brynne co-wrote the teleplay, this strikes me as a VERY Michael episode. I remember how excited he was to be using the Tanna Leaves and the Avatar, plus all those other references to Thoth, Osiris, Isis and Set. I think it was something he had wanted to do on a Batman episode, but it hadn't survived someone's interference (my memory is hazy). But these MUMMY trappings suited our purposes perfectly. The Tanna leaves even gave Hyena hay fever.
The one word title, as usual, was one of mine. I liked it because it had that double meaning, covering the Emir's grief over his son, and all the grief (trouble) that this was causing. I have a vague memory that Michael wasn't thrilled by the title, but, hey, I gave him his Tanna Leaves...
One of us had Wolf speak to the second meaning in the episode when he says he's tired of the Gargoyles giving the Pack grief. Just to give things a bit of clarity.
The new Coyote 3.0 surfaces, complete with a slightly new design and that now iconic Xanatos robot head (smashed in his last appearance) displayed on a video screen. (Goliath mentions seeing it, although in the ONLY scene where Goliath could have seen it, it's not visible. Arggh...)
The new Coyote design obeys Frank Paur's general rule of robots, which states that if you're not trying to fool anyone into thinking that the robot is actually a human being, then the design should clearly be inhuman enough so that you'd never think it could be a guy wearing an armored suit.
Coyote's an odd bird in many ways. So like Xanatos, but without his drive and with more of a vengeful nature. Programmed in, I believe, so that he doesn't let anyone or anything stand in the way of X's missions. He's got some fun lines ("Shoot first and ask questions later."), in particular his exchanges about the chain of command...
Coyote: "I'm not programmed to kill without orders.
Wolf: "I'm giving the order!"
Coyote: "You don't qualify."
Coyote: "Is that an order?"
Emir: "YES! Get rid of them!"
Hyena continues to be attracted to a Coyote that doesn't seem interested but also never closes the door on the possibility of hooking up with the cyborg. ("Wanna make sparks fly?" "Later, perhaps.") It's sick and twisted and hard to get your head around, but it sure is fun, culminating with her wonderful complaint to her brother after Jackal destroys Coyote: "Every time I meet a guy I like..." (I also like those buzzsaws on her arms.)
It's important to note that Dingo is already missing from the group. Clearly, during and after "Upgrade" he was rethinking his association with the other members. This doesn't bode well for the Pack as a unit. They're already talking about going their separate ways after the Emir's work is through and are only still together because they owe Xanatos for busting them out of jail. After this, Wolf will head to Scotland, answering the call of his ancestor Hakon. Jackal & Hyena will take a job with Cyberbiotics and head for Guatemala. Dingo will go to work for Fox in his native Australia. Coyote 4.0 will be rebuilt and head for Arizona with Xanatos.
So "Grief" is the Pack's swan song -- that is until a new Coyote forms the Ultra-Pack with Wolf, Jackal & Hyena and a new member... someday...
To be perfectly honest, the Emir entered the Gargoyles Universe as a throwaway line of dialogue to indicate how powerful Xanatos was in "The Edge". If he could keep an Emir waiting, X must be a real bigshot. But Michael and I remembered the line, and used the Emir again as a semi-throwaway in "Double Jeopardy". But by that time, I think we might have already known we'd be seeing him on the World Tour. It's just an example of how the Tapestry seemed to be working for us. Creating opportunities that were so right, it almost seemed as if we were truly tapping into the Gargoyles Universe. How many of you were surprised to see the Emir actually appear?
The Emir was a very successful and poignant character (at least in my opinion). I give most of the credit for that to actor Tony Shaloub and Voice Director Jamie Thomason. Not to knock our wonderful designers and animators who brought that voice to life. But let's face it, he's just a guy in a robe. Now over the course of the ENTIRE production of Gargoyles, I would say that I only missed two voice sessions EVER. But one of them was this pick-up session with Tony. NOW, of course, everyone knows that Tony is an Emmy-winning brilliant actor of movies and television. I just love MONK. But back then, the only thing that Tony was really known for was the Italian immigrant cab driver on WINGS. Pretty cool in and of itself, of course. But having missed the session, I was unprepared for just how wonderful he was as the Emir. Everything from the grief-stricken sighs to the bursts of anger are just wonderful.
And while we're on the subject of voice, how about that other Tony, Tony Jay, as Anubis. He's delicious in three different personae -- as the neutral and imperious Anubis, as the crazed Jackal/Anubis and as the exhausted Emir/Anubis. That vocal effect we did of having both actors (Tony & Tony or Tony & Matt Frewer) read the Avatar lines and blending them together was a bit of accidental brilliance, in my opinion. I'm also glad that they do NOT quite synch up. It's better. The lines basically fit, but they ebb and flow around each other like the magical melding it's supposed to be. It was a bit of a bitch to mix, but I love it.
But I digress. The Emir's heartbroken love for his son is, I think, one of the cleanest and most purest emotions (unencumbered by too much fantasy) that we ever presented. Something very real. When the Emir first pulled out the photo of his son, Erin said "Who is that? Is that his son?" She immediately knew the photo had meaning. (Again, Tony's big sigh really helped.)
And at the end, we (along with Goliath) really hope that after gaining true understanding upon becoming Anubis' Avatar, he is now at rest with his son.
Jackal also truly comes into his own in this episode. I love how he flat out has a thing for jackals. How he admires the Anubis hieroglyph and Anubis himself, calling him "The original model". It's cool and creepy. We also truly get to see Jackal as a sociopath here. I think I've mentioned before that I view Hyena as a psychopath and Jackal as a sociopath, i.e. someone with enough sense to know he's got to do his evil within a schema that allows him to get away with it. But what happens when you free the sociopath from all restrictions. What happens when you give him (Matt & Tony, remember) the powers of Death itself? Well, you see what happens. People die. Lots of them, in theory.
Getting away with that was interesting. I think maybe in Adrienne Bello's mind, everything was set right. Or the fact that we see that Egyptian town age into a ruin didn't count because we weren't seeing ANY human beings die. But we had much more trouble getting those two skeletonized crocs past her than the implied death of an entire town. Misdirection. Or she was just being cool. Or both, i.e. she thought the misdirection was sufficient that she COULD be cool.
I love when Jackal/Anubis says: "Life and Death at my command. I LIKE it!" I also like that he's smart enough and sociopathic enough to co-opt the most dangerous guy in the room: The Emir. The Emir? you ask. Well, yes, it's the Emir who does in fact end up defeating him by rereading the scroll. And Jackal keeps the Emir in his place by holding out the hope to him that he will restore his son.
Seriously, how could we not go to Egypt on the World Tour. How could we skip visiting what Angela refers to as the World's Biggest Gargoyle. So we stuck a fictional temple inside it -- and then trashed it. I think dedicated archaeologists must hate our show, because we're constantly trashing these amazing hidden chambers of antiquity. Maybe I'm getting older or something, but I find myself wincing everytime Goliath and Wolf bust a sacarphogus during a fight, everytime a pillar cracks or the roof falls in. I'm just glad we didn't destroy the Sphinx itself.
Goliath's entrance into the temple isn't one of our most brilliant animated moments. For starters, when Coyote is touching the hieroglyphs, he seems to miss every one. Goliath than claims to be repeating the sequence, but it looks nothing like what Coyote did. Yet it works for both of them. Maybe getting into that temple isn't as hard as it looks.
I love how the power of death flows from Jackal/Anubis and then through the Sphinx's own eyes before striking out at Egypt at large. Almost makes the Sphinx seem to come to life in those shots.
And I do love that shot at the end where the gargs are in stone in front of the stone Sphinx.
Love Wolf's reaction: "Shave my head and call me baldy." (Or something like that, all ramble quotations are approximate.)
The animation effects on this episode are all fantastic, particularly the lighting during tranformations (very reminiscent of "Shadows of the Past"). Gorgeous. Another reason for me to be bummed that Disney closed its Tokyo studio.
I like how Anubis has no real mouth. Certainly no synch to his dialogue. My kids both commented on it. It fascinated them. But I also think it puts him on another level. His speech is that of a god. He requires nothing as mundane as a mouth movement to get his meaning across. (That's why it's so disconcerting in "THE GATHERING, PART ONE" when his mouth opens to laugh. He seems above something as petty as laughter, non?)
And how about Tony Jay and those great lines of godlike neutrality: "I grant but one boon." "Death is always pointless. That is the point." "All are equal in death." "You would not like to see the Jackal God play favorites." Etc.
All right, once again, let me acknowledge my screw up. I should have let Coyote shoot Elisa, Goliath, Bronx and Angela dead. And have nothing happen. At that moment in the ep, no one can die. Emir and Anubis are just covering that in dialogue. Instead, Elisa pulls off a fairly elegant move that allows them to escape. But how much cooler if the distraction were the mere fact that they survived the Pack's barage unscathed? I blew it.
Otherwise, there is some pretty cool action.
Coyote advises Elisa to take her best shot. She does and it's kinda cool. But less cool because she then comments on it.
Coyote's limp afterwards is a nice touch, I think.
When Elisa and the gargs wake up in chains, Erin says: "They all wake up at the same time suddenly." Leave it to a nine-year-old to point out an obvious cheat.
Erin said, "Yuck, disgusting." when Jackal first transformed.
Benny: "He wants to be the strongest, I'm guessing."
Benny didn't quite get why the Gargs were turning old. (Designing a demonstably old Bronx was NOT easy, by the way.) Or for that matter why Hyena and Wolf turned into Cyber-baby and wolf-cub. (Though both kids thought they were cute.) So the exchanging of energies lacked a bit of clarity for our younger audience, perhaps. Still any excuse to give Keith David an opportunity to do a variation on a theme is fun. Like hearing Keith play Thailog, it was also cool to hear him play a very old Goliath. The guy's a maestro of his own voice.
I do remember arguing with Reaves about the Baby and puppy moment. I thought (a) that it was funny and (b) that it was necessary to illustrate Jackal/Anubis' power. Michael simply thought it was too silly in tone. Now, I'm very glad I held firm. I think it's a great moment. And a little in-context humor really helps any episode. (I also love Jackal's "Baby sister" line that prefaces the change.)
I think in hindsight, Goliath's explanation that the gargs aged at half-speed and Jackal didn't know it, is a cheat. They are visibly very old. Internally, they'd be no less old. It's not like Jackal was thinking, "Hmmm, if I age them fifty years that should be enough." He just kept aging them until they were old and feeble. It's also not like biologically a gargoyle's exterior ages faster than his or her interior.
Ironically, commenting on that was not necessary for the purpose of explaining the action. If there had been no explanation and Goliath had used sheer will power to drag himself up for one last feeble attack, I don't think anyone in the audience would have balked. Rather, I think that dialogue was put in by me to definitively establish the fact that Gargs age at half speed. Oh, well...
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
just watched Grief, had some questions:
1. Emir said his son had died two years ago, and Grief happened in early 1996, correct? so when did his son die? was it before Awakenings? was it before The Edge?
2. when Jackal/Anubis aged the gargoyles you said he just made them old in human terms, but how old were they anyway? older than Hudson?
1. The Emir's son died on January 26th, 1994. The events of Awakening, at least the majority of those events, took place between October 4th and 7th of 1994. The events of Edge took place between January 12th and 14th, 1995. The events of Grief take place between January 25th and 26th, 1996.
2. I don't know. He wasn't counting.
In prep for my ramble on Sanctuary, here's my notes to Story Editor/Writer Cary Bates on his first outline for "Sanctuary"...
Notes on "Sanctuary" Outline...
Cary, I'm going to resist the temptation of beating this all out for you. That's how I got so far behind before. And at this stage I doubt I could do it any faster or better than you. So I want you to do a second draft on this outline, addressing ALL of the notes below. I sympathize, in advance. This is a complicated story. But I know we (meaning mostly you) can make it work. Don't take too long. And feel free to call after you've read this. We may be able to work out some of the problems over the phone. Good luck and here goes:
How does the title fit? What is the theme of the story? Is it about feeling safe? Safe in the arms of someone you love? I like that notion, but we'd have to emphasize it a lot more.
And simultaneously, more of the action should be centered around Notre Dame Cathedral. Economically, we can't afford to design backgrounds for an entire city. So we should keep the action focused on a few locations, that climax at the gargoyle covered cathedral-"sanctuary".
Plus, we don't want newspapers to be generically talking about a "mysterious winged creature". We want them focused on the Creature haunting the Cathedral at night. Maybe they think it's someone posing as Quasimodo, or his spirit or maybe they even think it's a gargoyle come to life or something. Of course, it's really Thailog. (Not Demona, by the way.) He's been there since "Double Jeopardy". Arriving long before Demona and Macbeth arrived.
We need to involve Thailog more at the end. Make him part of the conflict. I think he would have upgraded a bit. Used some of that $20 million to armor himself for battle. Not necessarily robotic armor, but at least a chestplate. Maybe wrist and shin guards. Keep in mind, we want him to be more powerful than Goliath and more threatening than any other villain. We should probably arm him with some big high-tech bazooka/laser/cannon type-thing too.
And we don't have to break up Demona and Thailog at the end. We just need to know that Thailog doesn't really care for her.
Remember, Thailog's plan isn't to kill Demona and Macbeth for the sake of killing them. He wants what they have managed to acquire over the last nine hundred years. If he could add that to the fortune he's parlayed from the money he stole from Xanatos, he might be able to compete with Xanatos financially. He needs to have already merged Demona's holdings with his own. So that his corporation (and we should get a cool, evocative name for it) we'll inherit in the case of her demise. And he wants to inherit Macbeth's stuff too. So if Mac and Dierdre marry, and both die together, (which is the only way they can die) he'll get everything.
Now, I'm not pretending this is easy to accomplish. As I read the outline, I was wondering if we needed a maguffin or two to symbolize this wealth. Maybe Macbeth's Paris Mansion itself. But we managed to figure something out for "Outfoxed" that clearly and dynamically spelled out Halcyon and Fox's "financial conflict". We can do the same thing here. With the same clarity.
Does Macbeth plan on telling "Dierdre" the truth about himself?
Is this the first time since Gruoch that Macbeth has been in love? Since he's an immortal has he avoided close relationships, not wanting to outlive his lover? Or watch her grow old? Or has he been through this before? Maybe not often, but once or twice over the last nine hundred years. How did he handle it in the past? Is he doing something different now? Highlander questions, basically.
Is Macbeth afraid for Dierdre's life? Does he think Demona might try to harm Dierdre to get back at him?
Do Goliath, Elisa and Angela assume at first that Macbeth and human Demona are in cahoots and only realize/remember later that since M&D have no memory of anything between City of Stone and Avalon, that Macbeth might not know that this human woman is in fact Demona?
Do we have an opportunity, maybe when Goliath and Elisa are searching Paris for the villains, for them to be romanitcally affected by the City of Lights?
When it's over, instead of Macbeth simply remaining bitter and once again suicidal, could Goliath point out to him that life offers possibilities... that if Macbeth could fall in love with Demona, he could certainly fall in love with someone else? Someone nice who would make his long life worth living again, at least for a time.
A bunch of things, (some of which Cary the Story Editor should have been able to catch from his reading of past scripts, tsk tsk). Some of these notes may be moot after a rewrite of the outline.
Beat 2) Goliath, Elisa and Angela know that Demona and Macbeth left Avalon unconcious and together. Wherever they landed it would also have to be together. (Of course, Goliath and Co. have been travelling for awhile. So there's no guarantee that Macbeth and Demona stayed together after landing wherever they landed. It's just a good bet.)
There's also no reason for Goliath to assume that Macbeth and Demona are involved with each other still. (After all, they hate each other.) Also no reason to assume that Macbeth would be hurt by the association. And though there's no love left between Demona and Goliath, Goliath has no reason to feel sympathy for Macbeth. The audience might. Some of them would know Mac's backstory from City of Stone and sympathyze, but Goliath doesn't know the whole story. And he's got no reason to think more of Macbeth than Demona. Ironically, it is Thailog, more evil than any of the others, who Goliath would have the most sympathy for. He sees Thailog as a victim of poor upbringing. He'd like to reform and rescue his "son".
On the other hand, by this time Goliath believes that they land everywhere for a purpose. If he sees Macbeth and/or Demona, it's not too big a leap for him to figure that whatever the purpose, it involves these villains.
Beat 4) Again, here we'd like the headlines to be more specific to the Cathedral.
Beat 5) Elisa would recognize the human Demona from "High Noon".
Beat 7) We are forcing the creation of a lot of different sets and backgrounds here. Also don't forget that Demona's transformations to gargoyle (and back) are painful. Also don't forget that Macbeth feels any pain that Demona feels and vice versa. Distance reduces the pain, but we've never been really specific about how much distance or what the reduction is. Does Macbeth, across town, feel a little of Demona's pain at transformation? If so, he could blame Demona, knowing as he does, that he feels her pain. All that would tell him is that Demona is in the vicinity. It wouldn't reveal that Demona is Dierdre, unless he saw her transform. On the other hand, Demona might be far enough away that Macbeth feels nothing. Or just a slight twinge of soreness, that he doesn't immediately connect with Demona. We can play it any of these ways, we just need to deal with this "Corsican Brother"-style pain-sharing. We can't ignore it.
Beat 10) We've got a lot of set-up with little action up to this point. Maybe we can streamline a bit. Also, it feels like Mac's hovercraft might be a little unwieldy for this sequence. Maybe he's on the flying equivalent of a jet-ski or something a bit more svelt.
But there's another big question. What is Macbeth's objective towards Demona at this point? He knows that the only way to rid himself of her is to die himself. He may have forgotten the lessons of City of Stone and Avalon, but I would think that his love for Dierdre would prevent him from wanting to die. Later we imply that he's chasing Demona in order to chase her out of town. But that's pretty goofy logic. "I haven't seen you in weeks. So I'm going to hunt you down, to make sure you stay out of my life."
Beat 11) We definitely want to do something with the Eiffel Tower. Maybe even stage a battle there in the first or second act. But the Tower is open to tourists at night. Does anyone see them hanging there? Or are we way into wee hours by this time?
Beat 13) Goliath can't steal this guys camcorder. He's not a thief. Even destroying it is pretty malicious for Goliath, who's never gone too far out of his way to hide from humans.
Beat 16) Gargoyles don't kiss. They stroke hair. And it's "Notre Dame" ("Our Lady"), not "Notre Damn" ("Our Damnation"?)
Beat 17) The Cathedral is a very temporary safe house for Thailog while some safer, new place is being built for him. (Or maybe that's part of what Thailog is after: Macbeth's Paris Mansion.) It is not abandoned. Thailog is safe their during the day, because he's like a needle in a gargoyle haystack. After dark, he can stay out of sight in the upper reaches, until the Cathedral closes for the night. But he can't have much of a set-up there. Computers? Paintings? I don't think so. Particularly when we've got reports of a creature climbing around the church at night. People might investigate. They wouldn't find Thailog. But what would they make of that computer?
Beat 18) Demona may have no desire to "see" Goliath, since she found Thailog. But she'd still want him dead. Plus she MUST be curious about this female gargoyle. She thinks she knows all the gargoyles that exist, and none of them are female. She'd have to know. (And for that matter, so would Thailog.)
Beat 19) Think about how silly it would look in live action, if a villain who looked like Thailog, whipped out a brush and in a few seconds added a necklace to a painting. It's equally silly looking in animation. Maybe moreso because it's so easy to do.
I don't understand the pre-nuptual agreement at all. Why does Macbeth feel he needs it? (And don't tell me his lawyers push him around.) Besides, the whole idea of it goes against what we want to have happen in the story. Thailog wants Mac and Demona to get married. And have Demona inherit so that he can inherit from her, when both Demona and Mac die. Or am I missing something? I don't think we want this to be about stealing money from a safe. That's small potatos for Thailog and Demona. Either we need to have some irreplaceable (possibly magical) maguffin in that safe, or we should be dealing with the whole ball of wax. The former would probably be easier, but I'd like to go for the latter ball of wax if we can.
Beat 20) Again, I don't buy Macbeth's logic for hunting down Demona.
Beat 21) Angela can't operate a camcorder. She's not Lex. (And as noted above, I don't see anyway for our guys to have this anyhow.) Plus she wouldn't recognize Thailog. Also it feels like a pretty big jump for Goliath to figure that Demona and Thailog are working together. Not an impossible jump, but a big one.
Also, I was unclear. Did Goliath have a chance to give instructions to Elisa or did he turn to stone before he had time?
Beat 23) Again, I don't believe Macbeth lets lawyers push him around. And I don't think we need this pre-nup agreement in the story.
Beat 24) I really don't like this camcorder. And I don't know why Elisa needs it here. Like if she followed Mac and Dem, returned to Goliath without visual proof he wouldn't believe her story?
Beat 25) "How can I prove my love to you?" "Give me the combination to your safe." Yeah, that wouldn't make me suspicious.
I'd almost rather play any scene like this where Macbeth is insisting on giving something to Dierdre, who protests that she doesn't want it. The more she protests that all she needs is his love, the more he wants to lavish on her. In this way, he is predictable, but he's not being fooled by "crocodile tears" into doing something that seems incredibly fishy.
Beat 26) Again, Elisa would recognize human Demona from "High Noon" the first time she saw her. But here I was entirely unclear. How does footage of Dierdre prove that she's Demona, when Elisa didn't recognize her in person?
And this bit about Dierdre being Demona's name...? Gargoyles didn't have names in the tenth century. Naming is a human convention. Goliath referred to Demona back then as his angel love, or his angel of the night. Do we want to change "Dierdre" to "Angel" or "Angelica" or "Angelique". I don't know if you still need this, since Elisa would recognize human Demona, but I suppose you could, as long as we wouldn't be confusing the audience with Angela.
Why wouldn't Goliath want Elisa along? And why would Elisa agree to stay behind?
And what is it that Angela's staring at? Footage of human Dierdre? This isn't going to help her make the connection between herself and Demona. Visual clues aren't really the answer at all, since she would have seen Demona in the Avalon 3-parter. She learned from Sevarius that Goliath was her biological father. Here she learns that Demona was Goliath's love all those years ago. She puts two and two together over the course of the episode. Figuring out the truth only after she's already come to regard Demona as evil. You won't have room here to deal with the ramifications of that discovery. You're just setting things up for another story.
Beat 27) Why does Macbeth want to capture Goliath and Angela if he wants to get Gargoyles out of his life for good?
Beat 28) Goliath is "spreading" lies? To who? I mean we know he's not. But who does Macbeth think he's spreading lies to, that makes him want to imprison Goliath to stop it?
Also Macbeth could NOT have heard about Thailog. He was under the Weird Sister's spell when Thailog made his only other appearance. Besides who would he have heard about him from?
Beat 32) Again, not at all happy about Thailog's magic paintbrush. Particularly since it proves nothing here. It's not a photograph. If Macbeth thinks Goliath might lie about Dierdre, why wouldn't he think that this is a further lie somehow accomplished by Goliath.
Beat 33) I'm glad Macbeth keeps his cook. That guy can make a mean omelette.
Beat 36) Again, don't forget that Macbeth and Demona feel each other's pain while fighting.
Beat 39) These are huge leaps for Angela to make. How does she know this about Thailog. Also does Thailog show up there, state what he states and then not get involved in the fight? Or is that a typo for Goliath? Maybe we should let the battle climax at the Cathedral. Thailog is there. Goliath tries to "save" his son from Demona's evil. (Goliath assumes this plan is Demona's, not Thailog's.) Thailog just laughs. Reveals he wants Mac and Demona to kill each other. And he'll kill Goliath to prevent him interferring. Or something like that.
Beat 41) Killing Demona would at least knock Macbeth out.
Beat 42) Again, doesn't Thailog want anything besides their deaths?
Beat 44) Goliath still needs to be in some discomfort vis-a-vis the biological mother and father thing. It's not the gargoyle way. Brynne is going to deal with this (she'll have the space to deal with it) in her Africa story. Let Elisa be the one who confirms Angela's suspicions.
Beat 45) Again, I think we're working against our own ends. Why does Thailog need Macbeth and Demona dead, if not for what he can gain by their deaths?
Beat 46) Again, I think we can let Demona and Thailog go off together. Also, we've spent the whole episode with Demona turning back and forth from human to gargoyle. Demona does not turn to stone -- ever.
Beat 47) Angela should not get any comfort from Goliath in this episode. You don't have the time to deal with it here. If she receives comfort, it would come from Elisa.
O.k. try another pass. I'd streamline, by opening with the skiff arriving in daylight. Elisa leaves the stone gargoyles on the skiff tied under a bridge and goes to explore Paris. A place she's never been. She probably calls home again. Maybe she tries her parents this time, and again gets an answering machine. To save money on a voice actor, the answering message can be one that Elisa recorded for her parents months ago. (My sister is on my parents' machine with a message she recorded two years ago.) Elisa's voice says something like: "My parents don't know how to work their answering machine, but if you leave a message for Peter or Diane Maza, there's a fifty-fifty chance they'll call you back"). You don't have to jump through hoops to get the message erased this time. Then she briefly wanders around Paris like a tourist until she spots Mac and "Dierdre" who she immediately recognizes as Demona. She doesn't know that Mac doesn't know it's Demona. She'd probably assume they're up to something bad together. And also guess that they're why she and Goliath, etc. have landed in Paris. She follows them at a safe distance, etc. She doesn't want to get spotted. Near nightfall, she might head back so that she can inform Goliath when he awakens. Or she might not want to lose Macbeth and Demona until after she's found their H.Q. Or maybe when Mac and Dierdre split up, Elisa follows Dierdre to see where she lands, then loses her among the tourists at the cathedral.
Anyway, that's somewhere to start.
Time to Ramble...
This episode was directed by Frank Paur and was really based on an idea of his that pre-dated the introduction of Renard in "Outfoxed".
The episode was written and story edited by Gary Sperling. Gary selected this episode, because he felt he had an affinity for the subject matter and because his brother, a Rabbi, was able to advise him on things like the Hebrew, etc. (But I tell you, recording some of that Hebrew was a bitch.)
I love most of the backgrounds on this episode. Very striking and atmospheric.
RENARD & CO.
My eight-year-old daughter Erin spotted Renard, and immediately recognized him as "Fox's father." I think Robert Culp does a great job with Renard. And (futzing aside) with the Golem as well.
Vogel's back with no explanation or indication that he fell out of favor. I guess Goliath's speech to Renard at the end of "Outfoxed" carried real weight. I think it shows something in Renard that he's able to give Vogel a second chance.
And Renard's other compatriot is Brod. A new gangster of the new Eastern-European school. I can't remember if I already had plans to pit Brod against Dracon. But I liked the contrast between them. And I like how tough and fearless Brod is. And also how outside-the-box he is in his thinking. He'd rather have the hovercraft than a cash payment. He sees the advantage.
Goliath spots Renard (and vice versa). Renard isn't pleased, cuz he knows he's doing wrong and doesn't need a reminder that he used to lecture people on integrity.
Goliath IS pleased, initially, because he sees Renard as a potential ride home. Here, and for the last time until probably "Ill Met by Moonlight" and "Future Tense", the focus is still on GETTING HOME.
But for Renard, the focus is on living. ("Integrity is a luxury I can no longer afford.") Goliath is stunned. He calls Renard someone "I thought I knew."
There's some nice climbing here. Just visually, the way the gang climbs up the bridge. The way Angela and Bronx climb up the tower. The way Bronx later climbs down. I just think it's cool.
ELISA & MAX and GOLIATH & THE GOLEM
I also like Elisa and Max's little exchange at the beginning.
Max: What are you looking for?
Elisa: New York.
Max was consciously designed to parallel Elisa. And she at least, notices the connection. When she says "The Golem needs you as much as you need it." I think she's thinking about her relationship to Goliath. (It may be a touch arrogant, but it's accurate too.)
He's the human ally and advisor (sometimes guide) to a protector made of stone and clay. The parallels of Golem to Gargoyle are obvious, and the main reason why I felt we HAD to do this episode. (Probably the main reason why Frank suggested it in the first place.) I love how Keith read: "So this Golem is a protector." He likes the whole idea. It's almost sweet in a way.
Max is just less confident than Elisa ever was: "What if it doesn't like me?" I don't think Elisa ever worried about that, at least not after she learned that Goliath could talk.
Elisa actually has a bunch of fun lines here:
"Hit it, Bronx!"
"Don't worry. We're the Good Guys!"
"And you get used to the weirdness."
I like how the Renard/Golem turns the lamp-post into a pretzel. But on my tape, he smashes a car that was already smashed. Did that get corrected for later airings?
I also thought it was a nice touch when he knocked over Edgar Blosa's tombstone. I know that was an homage to some movie. Maybe an Ed Wood film? But now I'm blanking out?
Renard as the Golem is corrupted rather rapidly (if shallowly) by his newfound power. That was the idea. That a man who had been trapped in the prison of his own body would get flat-out drunk on the freedom and strength that the Golem offered: "Instant respect. I could get used to this."
But like any high, one eventually comes down.
And Elisa is the first to start to sober him up. "You're enjoying this!" she yells. It stops him. Cuz he is. But cuz he's not so far gone that he shouldn't know better. He flees. Not because anyone has yet provided an adequate threat. He's really running from himself. But that translates to: let me just get out of here.
Renard actually says, "It's not my fault!" which of course was the one phrase that used to drive him crazy.
Goliath has a great comeback: "A weak body is no excuse for a corrupt spirit." That's classic Goliath, I think.
I love the close up shot of the Renard/Golem looking over his shoulder, weighing it all. Wondering what his alternative is beyond accepting his fate, i.e. his death by whatever disease was killing him.
And I love Goliath's next follow up too: "You've given up all you believe in... for a piece of clay."
I'm sure some people thought Renard's turn-around was too sudden. But between Elisa, Goliath and some well-chosen words from Max ("Can you live with yourself"), and Renard's basic decency, I have no problem accepting it when he finally says, "What have I become?"
THE FINAL BATTLE
Elisa really rocks in this episode I think. That may have been the thing I most noticed in this viewing. I don't think of this as one where she was particularly featured, but she really does great. I love her little "Hi there." close up moment before she decks the bad guy with a punch that comes right into camera and flashes red. (Of course, I doubt you could do that these days.)
I like all the stuff with Golem and the hovercraft.
I'm also reminded here of the end of "Awakening, Part Five" when Goliath is holding Xanatos and on the verge of dropping him to his death. Elisa and Hudson talk him out of it. And Max fulfills the same function for the Golem. And I love Max's line, which is traditional: "Love Justice and Do Mercy." So simple and eleoquent. So right.
In any case, I guess that makes Brod the Xanatos of Prague. Except clearly he didn't fare as well. The Golem's appearance must have convinced him to seek out new "Turf", if you know what I mean.
THE WORLD TOUR
Finally, Goliath has learned something about all Max's talk about destiny and making choices. He finally realizes that Avalon isn't simply messing with them. But that there is purpose and need and destiny. He could choose to skip it. He could hitch a ride with Renard back to Manhattan. But he won't run away. So instead he'll take the Skiff.
Now the World Tour can finally start in earnest. Sure, the audience still wonders when and if the quartet will ever get home. But I think the tenor of it changes now. Now there's an expectation. I think, had we not had to air so many damn reruns during the original run of the Tour in winter/spring of 1996, the audience would have been much more patient after this episode. Like Goliath, they would have understood.
Elisa makes the same choice. Although for her, it's less about quests and destiny than about abandoning her friends: "You guys would be lost without me." And again, kidding or not, there's a certain arrogance. But a lot of accuracy as well.
Anyway, that's my Ramble. Where's yours?
Time to ramble...
I think this episode had a fun story written and edited by Cary Bates. And I know it had a great moody storyboard directed by Frank Paur. But it suffered from two major problems...
1. Repetitive elements. We had multiple story editors working on multiple episodes. I was overseeing all of them, but sometimes things did get away from me. "Monsters" has a number of elements in common with "Heritage" which had only just preceeded it in the line up. It makes "Monsters" seem a bit more tired than it really is, through no fault of Cary's. For example, we open with a Sea Monster. One of our female cast members is lost and nearly drowned. Goliath searches frantically. Etc. Even my five-year-old son Benny was convinced, "We just saw this one." It just felt very been there done that. My fault.
2. Very weak animation -- some of the weakest of the series -- removed much of the mystery and mood from the boards that Frank directed. I know we called tons of retakes on this ep, but there was a limit. Secrets were given away too early. What's a monster submarine and what's a monster is too easily discernable at the start. We were hoping for more silhouette's in that murky Loch. Throw in some really atrocious character moments (like when Angela wakes up in chains) and you've got an ep that's unimpressive at best.
And yet, there's much in this show that I really like.
It takes an important step toward evolving Angela's relationship with Goliath. Though G's not aware of it, Sevarius reveals to Angela that she is his biological daughter. Having grown up around her adoptive *HUMAN* parents, that notion of biological imperative must have seeped in. She already KNEW that Goliath was one of her ROOKERY parents. But this revelation ignites her curiousity and need. I find it interesting anyway. My eight-year-old daughter Erin was likewise fascinated with this aspect. She was anxious for Angela to tell Goliath about her discovery. Of course, Goliath knows in a 'shrug' sense. It's visually obvious to him. It just isn't programmed to be significant for him.
And if that weren't enough to make the ep worthwhile, we also get another wonderful over-the-top performance from Tim Curry as Dr. Anton Sevarius. He has a TON of great lines in this (all quotations approximate)...
"If it gets any more sacharine in there, I'll have to shove a finger down my throat."
"It must be awful to wake up in chains first thing in the morning."
"Thank heaven for little girls... and DNA markers."
"He's your very own flesh and stone."
"Enough to make my mind boggle..."
But there were other problems too. In my mind and Cary's Big Daddy and Nessie were mates (with little ones revealed at the end). But because of the name "Big Daddy" and because we were intentionally using the L.N.Monsters to parallel and comment on Goliath and Angela's father-daughter relationship, many people thought that Big Daddy was Nessie's dad. I'm not sure it matters too much. But (unintentional) confusion can't help.
Elisa knows they haven't arrived in Manhattan because it's too quiet and because the water's too clean. Of course, Loch Ness is famous for having MURKY, MURKY water. Not that the water is "dirty" exactly, the way New York Harbor is. But it's hard to figure Elisa would think of the Loch as clean either. And I knew that. Don't know how that got by me.
But Elisa does have some fun lines here and there:
"I'm not really the adventuring type."
"It's a show... Themeparks do this five times a day."
(Yes, we weren't above giving a gentle knock to the parent company.)
(Of course, when Elisa said that last bit, Erin said, "I don't think so." Benny noticed the submarine was metal and thought it was a robot. It took him a while to get the notion that it was a ship or sub.)
LITTLE CONTINUITY TOUCHES
Elisa leaves a message on Matt's machine. But the tape is full. This was done for two reasons. Or three...
1. We felt that Elisa would and should attempt to contact someone.
2. We wanted to prolong the agony (at least in the audience's minds) as to what happened to our travelers from the point of view of those left behind.
3. We were in the middle of a tier, and couldn't guarantee (as we saw with "Kingdom" that the episode would air in order. We didn't want Elisa to successfully contact anyone, because it might screw up continuity.
Nice to see Brendan & Margot taking a little vacation on the Loch, huh?
Angela says to Nessie: "I bet you've never been this close to a real live gargoyle either." But of course Angela's wrong. One of the reasons that Nessie gets so friendly so fast with Angela is BECAUSE she recognizes her as a gargoyle and knows that gargoyles are friendly to the Monsters of the Loch.
Of course, this begs the question as to what the Loch Ness clan was doing throughout this little adventure. I don't have a grea answer -- YET -- but for now, I'm just going to fall back on the notion that they were aware that Nessie was missing, but didn't know the cause. (It is a big murky loch, after all.) And yes, I know that's a feeble explanation, but it will have to do until I figure out a better one.
The title "Monsters" is another one of my thematic one word titles. Angela hits the nail on the head when she calls Sevarius the only monster around here. It's central to the series theme. But again, maybe too obvious, contributing to the weakness of the episode.
We had some trouble with the animation of the scene where Bruno confronts Goliath and Elisa right after they escape the dungeon. It forced us to reuse Jeff Bennett's "All right." line twice in a row.
Speaking of Jeff, my wife Beth thought Bruno sounded very Jack Nicolson. I pointed out that when Bruno was created, way back in "Awakening" we asked Jeff to make him a young George C. Scott. Beth couldn't hear that at all.
Benny used to love Bruno. Not only does Bruno barely register with him now. He doesn't remember ever liking the character. Erin asked him if he remembered the Xanatos Goon Squad. He didn't respond.
Another weakness... Angela just holds her breath forever down there at the end.
And when Goliath does get there, her chains pop off too easily, begging the question why she couldn't free herself.
I know I keep talking about the ep's flaws. But like all the 66 chapters, I really am more fond of it than critical. I do love seeing Goliath launched as a living torpedo, for example. There are a bunch of little things that I like.
And heck, we killed off four more characters. Sevarius and Bruno survived. But I think we have to assume that the other four members of the Goon Squad are gone for good.
But it wasn't one of our best efforts, I'll have to admit.
Sorry 'bout that...
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Time to ramble...
This chapter was written by Adam Gilad. Story Edited by Gary Sperling, and directed by Frank Paur.
As I watch each episode with my family, I've got my journal open in front of me to take notes for these rambles. During the opening credits, my five-year-old son Benny said: "I like Gargoyles." I was very pleased, of course. Then he said, "Can you write down that?" So I did. And so I have.
SHE'S GOTTA HAVE IT
Back on the skiff, and Elisa still hasn't QUITE gotten the idea. She still anticipates being back in Manhattan. Like visiting Scotland was an anamoly, but now surely Avalon will send them home. (What did you all think at the time?)
And boy, that girl likes her hot dogs. Make her one with everything, you know?
Our Sea Monster attacks. It's a cool design, based on research that we did. (It happens to look a lot like a pre-historic whale I saw last night on a Discovery Channel special: "Walking with Pre-Historic Beasts".)
I wish we could have found a less generic name for the creature than "Sea Monster". Thunderbird is a cool name -- particularly since I have fond memories of the L.A. T-Birds from Roller Derby telecasts of my youth -- but our research never turned up another name for the Sea Monster.
Keep in mind that though we did research, we also had time constraints. We couldn't keep researching a topic indefinitely. Eventually, we'd have to use what we had and run with it in order for the story and script to be delivered on time.
But I know Gary and Adam did quite a bit of backgrounding for this story. The Sea Monster, Thunderbird, Raven and Grandmother all came from Haida stories -- though we conflated quite a bit, I think. We did always try to be as true as possible to the history and legends we were riffing on.
HEY, WEREN'T THERE FOUR OF YOU?
As the battle with the Sea Monster came to a close, my seven-year-old daughter Erin said: "What about Elisa? Where's Elisa?"
Five seconds later, Goliath surfaces and says pretty much the same thing, before fearing her drowned by shouting "ELISAAAAA!!" (Shades of things to come -- in Hunter's Moon III.)
Speaking of research, the origin of the whole episode was the fact that Totem Poles caught my eye as being a particularly gargoylesque deal. Then we did some preliminary research and found that they weren't carved in anything that seemed to resemble a gargoyle tradition. They were 'carved to honor animal ancestors'. So rather than stretch (or abuse) the truth, we decided to let the characters (and audience) be lured off course by the poles, just as we had been.
Fake GARGOYLES, right here in North America.
In many ways, I think it could be argued that what takes place in this episode is handled or covered in other episodes to come. We have another episode with a 'sea monster'... a more famous sea monster in a certain loch... coming up rapidly in "Monsters". Also in that ep, one of our cast is lost and feared drowned after an early attack by that monster. And much of Nick/Natsilane's dilemma is also re-covered with a more-important recurring character (Peter Maza) in our other Native American-themed episode: "Cloud Fathers". We even do more with a volcano in "Ill Met by Moonlight". On some level I suppose I regret the duplication of efforts. I don't think we usually did this sort of thing.
But I don't regret the episode. I had plans for Raven. Plans for Queen Florence Island. Plans for Nick/Natsilane. I still think the ep has some cool stuff in it. And I think we NEEDED to cover Totem Poles. It was a natural.
HAR with a V. VAR with a D.
I went to a high school in North Hollywood, CA named "Harvard High School". Named after the University. (Some people have incorrectly stated I went to Harvard for college. But I went to Stanford for Undergrad and U.S.C. to get my Masters.)
I don't remember who's idea it was to have Nick be a graduate of Harvard. Might have been mine. Harvard of course is useful as a symbol.
I like Nick/Natsilane. He's got some nice attitude here and a nice shift. Maybe not the most impressive of our so-called "International Heroes". But very likable.
I give a lot of credit to the voice actor for bringing him to life. Gregg Rainwater was brought in by our Voice Director Jamie Thomason. Gregg was terrific. We used him again in Cloud Fathers, but I've used him many times since Gargoyles. I've even written parts with Gregg in mind. He was Jake Nez in Max Steel. And I cast him as Jake MacDonald in 3x3 Eyes. He always brings incredible humanity to a part, I think. Heroic, but real.
THAT'S NOT A CROW
It's a raven. Our second Trickster makes his first appearance. Of the four (Puck, Raven, Anansi and Coyote), Raven was the guy we gave the most evil bent to.
I like all the shape-shifting he does. (Though when he flees at the end, I wanted him to flee in his bird form, not his Raven-Goyle form.) I also like how he lies by using pieces of the Truth.
Raven-Goyle: "There is an evil sorceress named Grandmother. She summoned the monster that you fought."
When he said that, did you believe him?
Of course, Grandmother does have magic power and she did, in a way, summon the Sea Monster.
IT COULD BE WORSE. I ONCE LIVED ON 28TH STREET.
While doing our research, we encountered names of Islands off the Canadian coast like Queen Charlotte Island. So I named the fictional island we'd be using "Queen Florence Island."
Growing up in Woodland Hills, California, I lived on Queen Florence Lane, a street off Queen Victoria Road. Victoria and Florence were the daughters of Michael Curtiz, the director of such films as CASABLANCA. Curtiz, at one time, owned all the property in that area, so he named the two streets after his daughters.
OR so I once was told... by a ghost named Humphrey who tried to convince me that he was Humphrey Bogart, though you could tell by looking at him that he wasn't.
WHO EXACTLY IS THE SICK ONE HERE?
Elisa is so strong so much of the time, that it's kinda sexy to see her vulnerable and feverish.
Notice that Grandmother doesn't use Fairy magic to heal Elisa. She uses Haida medicine. Thus the rule of non-interference is bent not broken.
I like when Nick comes back in and the Fever's broken. And he says just don't tell me you cured her with tree bark.
When she says, "...and roots." His expression is priceless.
I like the lighting in the Volcano scene.
Goliath is so glad to learn that other clans have survived, that he doesn't notice -- in fact defends -- the inconsistencies in Raven's story.
Angela, on the other hand is suspicious. This was done, in part, to further develop her character. She's naive about certain things. Having been raised by humans, she's not inclined to judge them harshly or fear their prejudices. But she's not stupid. Something doesn't smell right and she notices.
For once, Bronx though does not. I chalk this up to the high quantity of magic being tossed around on this dying island. Grandmother is not what she seems. Neither is Raven. Bronx is confused.
Anyway, Goliath speaks to Gargoyles protecting to explain away why "Raven's Clan" can both hate humans and protect them. You get the sense that he understands all too well. Like despite everything, there's a part of him -- a prejudiced part -- that hasn't forgiven the human race for what happened at Wyvern. (Also keep in mind, he was just at Wyvern again, rehashing all those old memories.)
Of course, once Goliath learns that Raven was pulling something, he's furious at the trickster. Playing on his hopes AND his prejudices, Raven has risked G's wrath.
At the end of this scene, the three silent gargs vanish magically.
Erin said: "What happened? What just happened?"
Benny said: "How did they just vanish?"
They know I know the answer. But I resist telling them. It's a touch cruel. What did you guys think?
YOU CAN TAKE THE GIRL OUT OF THE CITY...
Elisa is such a New Yorker. Everything is compared to that. "This sure isn't Central Park."
Anyway, Raven, then a bear, then Bronx and finally Angela and Goliath find Elisa. I love Goliath and Elisa's hug. It's so unselfconscious. They were so worried about each other that they forgot the usual distance that they maintain.
So who did you trust? When the gargs disappeared, that had to indicate that something was up with the Raven-goyle.
So when Goliath tells Elisa that Grandmother is a sorceress, particularly given that Grandmother saved Elisa's life, we all tend to think that G's been duped. Then we spot Grandmother turning into Thunderbird. What did you all think then?
Benny noticed "her ears" and suspected her even before she turned into T-Bird.
THAT'S GOTTA HOIT
A cool moment in the battle against T-Bird is when Goliath rakes the creature with his claws.
Then Angela spots the Illusion. And plays it cool with Raven.
I like Goliath's line to Grandmother: "We live. We do not thrive."
Grandmother than establishes that Raven is a Trickster and that they are both "Children of Oberon". Thus we establish that aspect of our series.
She states that they are forbidden from directly interfering in human affairs. Reinforcing what the Weird Sisters said a few episodes before.
Raven joins the party. The jigs up, but he revels in it. He's got a few decent lines too.
I like "It's so messy."
POOR HORATIO, ALWAYS A BRIDESMAID, NEVER A BRIDE
Elisa more-or-less quotes Shakespeare: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Natsilane, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
I've always loved that line.
Anyway, Goliath and Angela depart to fight Raven. They arrive first, but given the fact that Nick had to...
1. Have a final change of heart.
2. Change clothes.
3. Get up to the volcano without wings.
...He makes good time, don't you think?
Raven brings the totem beasts to life. This was always a bit weird. We introduce illusion gargs based on the totem beasts. But then when we bring the totem pole to actual life (or semblance) we have new designs for the woody creatures.
Does everyone see Goliath play dead for that bear?
Raven has a nice exit line here: "This place no longer amuses me."
Neither does this Ramble.
Time to ramble....
This chapter (episode) was brought to you by:
Director: Kazuo Terada
Story Editor: Michael Reaves
Story: Michael Reaves
Teleplay: Michael Reaves & Brynne Chandler Reaves
Plus the usual suspects, including Frank and me.
The title is one of Michael's. I had the impulse to shorten it to "Shadows", but I didn't.
THE WORLD TOUR
As the recap ended and Tom shouted out: "Avalon doesn't take you where you want to go. Avalon sends you where you need to be!" My seven-year-old daughter Erin said, "Uh, oh."
"Uh, oh," indeed.
And so we begin Tier Four in earnest. Our quartet of travelers weren't headed straight home. Of course you couldn't know at that time just how long they'd be gone. And frankly when we started writing, neither did we.
It wasn't just the quantity of episodes (23 counting the Avalon three-parter, Kingdom, Pendragon, The Green and Future Tense) that we'd spend before everyone was reunited in Gathering One. It was the reruns in between.
What was supposed to be a five week trip became a five month trip. And so, for many of the fans it became interminable.
Why all the reruns? Well, the schedule finally just caught up with us. When Gargoyles was picked up for a second season by Buena Vista, I was asked how many we could reasonably produce for the fall quarter (between September & December of 1995) without interruption.
I told them that we were prepared to do six more. That was all the scripts that had been ordered (Leader, Legion, Metamorphosis, Lighthouse, Beholder, Vows). But I said we could do 13. We had done 13 the first season with a ten month sliding schedule. Now we had just under twelve months so we could certainly do 13 again.
I was asked what's the most we could do. I said, well if we start right now we can do 18.
Not 52? They asked.
52? Are you nuts? (Well, I didn't say that exactly.) I said we'll never get 52 done for the fall quarter. We'll wind up with a lot of repeats. You (Buena Vista) will not be happy with all those repeats.
They were disappointed. So disappointed, that instead of ordering 18, they only ordered six. (If we can't have 52, then forget it. [Okay, they didn't exactly say that either, but that seemed like the basic attitude.])
So we get to work to do six. Two weeks pass. Buena Vista comes back and says. No, do 13.
We respond with, uh, okay. Of course we've lost two weeks, so it'll be a bit harder, but we can do it.
Two weeks pass. They come back and say, "No, do 18."
We grumble a bit, because now we've lost a month of prep time when we could have been building crews, etc. But okay, I said we could do 18. We'll manage.
Two weeks pass. They come back and say, "Do 52."
Now we balk. We warned you we couldn't do 52 in twelve months. Now you want us to do it in 10? It took us ten to do 13.
And so we did. We built multiple crews. Our staff increased exponentially. We expanded to four writing teams from one. We expanded from one pre-production team (in Japan -- waves at Roy) to three and a half (one in Japan) and two and a half here in L.A.
And we worked like little demons to bring you 52 for the fall quarter. But it was never going to happen.
We wound up doing pretty good. I don't have my old calendar in front of me, and I can't remember exactly how many we managed to air in the fall, but it was considerably more than the 18 that I thought we could do.
But it wasn't 52. And so we had reruns. And reruns. And reruns. And most of those reruns came in the middle of the World Tour. And thus... yes... it seemed to go on forever.
Of course, other people didn't care for it for other reasons. They felt it got away from the series strengths of the gargs in Manhattan. Obviously, it left behind four of our characters, and I'll admit that I underestimated the trio's popularity a bit.
But I felt it was important. The World Tour gave our series breadth and hope. It expanded the Gargoyles Universe, added many new characters and in particular added at least four other clans of gargoyles.
And I think some of the stories really kicked ass.
So I apologize for nothing. NOTHING, do you hear me, nothing!!!!!!
Except for that outburst. Sorry about that outburst.
Anyway, our first stop was no place new. Goliath immediately recognizes the ocean cliffside as "home, my home."
Even before Hakon and the Captain start to drive him crazy, his dialogue is laced with nostalgia.
He's so into being back in Scotland, that when he climbs the hill, he doesn't even take Elisa with him. Elisa goes with Angela. Which is no big deal. But usually, G's more of a gentleman than that. Particularly with Elisa.
Angela: "It was always summer on Avalon."
Just wanted to give a sense of things on the fair island. Seemed to fit the legends as well.
I can't say enough good things about the animation in this episode. It's just gorgeous. The work of Disney's studio in Tokyo. WOW! Production AND Pre-Production was done there. All sorts of little touches, like Elisa slipping briefly and regaining her footing. And GREAT, GREAT character animation. Great lighting as the characters enter the tunnels. STELLAR effects animation in the megalith chamber. Just wow gorgeous stuff.
And boy, did we fight over this episode. [Roy, I'd love to get your perspective on this.]
When we got the storyboard from Japan, Frank and I each found something that just drove us nuts.
For Frank, it was the Wyvern cliff. The castle was gone, of course, as Xanatos had taken it away. But the cliff seemed to otherwise remain in tact. Frank was adamant that a chunk of the cliff had clearly been taken away and was part of the Eyrie Building. You could see it on that design. So obviously, we needed a crater of sorts to exist back at Wyvern.
When Frank pointed it out to me, I agreed with him. It didn't bother me as much as it bothered him, but I agreed.
What bothered me was Elisa's parka. In the storyboard, Elisa was wearing a parka with a hood. Of course, she looked great in it. And it kept her warm and safe and dry. But there was of course, no way and no place where she could have acquired that parka. (The Avalon Eddie Bauer, maybe?) So I insisted the parka had to go.
Frank agreed with me after I pointed it out. It didn't bother him as much as it bothered me, but he agreed.
So we gave Japan both these notes. And to our surprise, they balked. They felt that the only changes we were allowed to make to their boards were S&P changes.
We couldn't believe it. Finally, they relented. But on the cliffside ONLY. They felt that was a fair compromise. Since that had been Frank's BIG note, he was appeased. But obviously, I was not. All sorts of people came to me asking me to back down.
But I wouldn't. And I can honestly say it was for you guys that I refused. I knew even then that OUR FANS paid attention. That we couldn't get away with Elisa suddenly having a warm coat from no where.
So I put my foot down, and Elisa stayed cold and wet.
And our Tokyo Studio had another reason to be annoyed with me.
I regret the tension, certainly. But I still think I did the right thing, so I apologize for NOTHING, DO YOU HEAR ME? NOTHING!!!!
Except for that outburst, I apologize for that outburst.
A great movie. A husband tries to convince his wife that she's going insane. It's now a staple of melodrama everywhere. And we used it too.
So the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain try to gaslight Goliath.
We tried to gaslight the audience a bit too. Tried to let them think for a bit that Goliath might just be losing it. Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, maybe.
You can hear it in Goliath's voice. How he's lost in the past. Angela tells him that he did the right thing all those years ago by saving the Princess.
His only response: "Still, I wanted revenge." I love Keith David's reading of that line.
But we also wanted to play fair, so we dropped a hint: when Goliath hears Demona's voice, Bronx howls. He senses something. Always trust Bronx.
Bronx has a pretty important supporting role in this, btw.
THE AXE OF HAKON
When Goliath and friends first enter the caves, Goliath picks up an old Viking axe. Hakon's Axe. The one he uses in "Vendettas".
Should have been a mace by the way. Should have been the same mace you can see in the opening titles EVERY episode. The one that Hakon used to smash the gargoyles at Wyvern.
Shoulda been. My fault.
Okay, for that -- I apologize. I screwed up. Dang.
THE STREET PIZZA TRADITION
A CLASSIC MICHAEL REAVES' ELISA LINE:
"This place is creepier than the morgue at midnight."
Michael was great at giving Elisa this tough contemporary feel without taking us out of the moment.
Another good one: "Old wounds bleed as bright as new ones sometimes."
GETTING TO KNOW ANGELA
When Goliath pretends that he's NOT freaking out and having hallucinations, Angela can tell he's lying.
I love Brigitte's read there. She sounds SO SHOCKED: "He's not telling the truth."
You can tell she was raised in a world where there was little cause for lying.
Goliath attacking Elisa and Angela, thinking they are Hakon and the Captain.
Very dramatic. And again, we don't know yet, objectively that he isn't just going nuts.
What did you guys all think at this point? Did you suspect the truth?
Anyway, Bronx saves the day.
And Goliath runs off. He also has a nice stumble here. Again, parka aside, much amazing attention to detail and character in all this animation. Stunning.
STAR TREK INFLUENCE
No, I'm not talking about the voice cast.
Finally, we objectively reveal that Goliath is being influenced. We see two floating entities hovering over the scene. He doesn't see them, so they're not part of his dementia. Ergo (I don't have much opportunity to use the term ergo you know), ergo, they must be what is causing this.
Of course, they look like energy beings right out of Star Trek.
We also see Demona, Othello and Desdemona.
More of us playing fair. Sure they're identifiable. But of course, they (plus Iago) would be the souls LEAST likely to be haunting Wyvern and Goliath.
Yeah, Keith was the star. And we're always going on about Jeff's versatility. But we really were blessed with an amazing cast right down the line.
Salli does Elisa SO DARN WELL. It's the little things really.
Like when Angela explains about the fissure and how Goliath could die in it. Elisa says, "Swell." Just, "Swell." In one word, she says everything that needs to be said. It's hard. Try it sometime.
SPEAKING OF FISSURES
Bronx saves Goliath (temporarily) from falling by chomping down on his arm. Always thought that was cool. Would have liked to have drawn some blood, but we knew we'd never get away with that.
And the fissure itself is way cool. I love Goliath's fall.
And Elisa's determination, as she starts to climb down feet first. And I love the contrast, as Angela and Bronx, by virtue of their claws, climb down head first.
Some fans have felt, I know, that the Captain's change of heart at the end comes suddenly. That may be so. It's hard in a mere 22 minutes to achieve these arcs and turns. But as usual, we tried to drop subtle hints that he wasn't fully on board with Hakon.
Hakon is enjoying tormenting Goliath.
The Captain says: "Make an end to it." Hinting at his ambivalence. Torturing Goliath doesn't give him pleasure.
And while we're praising voice actors, how about a toast to the late Ed Gilbert, voice of the Captain of the Guard. Wonderful work here. Evil. Tortured. Redeemed.
Ed, wherever you are... THANKS!
THE FATAL FLAW IN YOUR PLAN
Demona. The Captain must have assumed that Demona died in the massacre. He and Hakon figured that her appearance would be the coup de grace. That Goliath's will would just dissolve when faced with her ghost.
They were almost right. But of course, G is no idiot. A bit slow sometimes, but not stupid. Demona's ghost shouldn't be here. Cuz the dame ain't dead.
[By the way, the idea to have her fist morph into a mace was mine. Just a little post-storyboard tidbit that I suggested amid bitching about the parka. They must have liked the idea because that wasn't one I insisted on, but they did it anyway. When push came to shove, everyone -- on both sides of the ocean -- was just VERY dedicated to making the show better.] [See. It's a mace because that's the weapon that we associate with the Massacre. Hakon's axe should have been a mace. How did I miss that?]
Anyway, Goliath figures out the truth and, hey, we've awakened the sleeping giant. He trashes the phony Demona. And we think he's going to smash all the others.
But something even more chilling happens. They all begin to dissolve around him. It still gives me the creeps. Very cool animation AND music and effects. (Props to the gang at Advantage Audio too.)
Or rather how come we don't have ghosts hanging around ALL the time. I didn't want this episode to open a spectral floodgate, where any character that was killed or had died in the past was available to haunt us.
So the Captain offers two possible explanations: Hate and Magic. Both present in ample supply. Plus Guilt. His guilt. Unfinished business.
Again, very cool effects on the Megalith's here. But the idea emerges from an old (if not very original) idea I've had since I was a teen. The notion that Stone Dances, that Megalith Circles were like Medieval Mystic Dynamos. Circles of power. That build and generate.
Really came to life here.
I love Hakon's line: "I can feel it. I can feel again." I love that transition halfway through the line between where he can feel that the process is working and when he realizes the simple fact that he can feel things again.
But again, watch the Captain feel his own hand. You can see the ambivalence there. Particularly when Goliath becomes the Ghost and Hakon is beating on him. Cap doesn't participate in this.
And Goliath helps him remember what he has forgotten. The Captain doesn't HATE Goliath. His problem is that G's presence has reinforced his own guilt.
But here's an opportunity to redeem himself: "I can't let this happen again!"
He pushes Hakon back.
Hakon: "You've crossed the lines of power, you fool."
You can almost here the Ghostbusters say, "Don't cross the streams."
So Cap hated himself, not G.
G forgives. He forgave the Magus last episode. Now he forgives the Captain. Shows that he's a pretty decent guy.
You think if Hakon made an effort? Nah.
Anyway, I like G's line: "One enemy. And one friend."
And then a positively angelic Captain returns briefly to say goodbye and thanks. I also like the "shackles of hate and guilt" line. And the way he calls Goliath, "Old Friend".
Elisa thinks she's in for a long story.
G: "Centuries long."
And as the sun rises, and Elisa -- as usual -- leans against her stone beau for a nap....
Hakon: "Don't leave me here alone!! Not without anyone to hate!!"
Many people think I should have left him there forever. But evil doesn't rest in peace in my opinion. When left alone it tends to get out of control.
Besides I already had this fun idea. What if Wolf was Hakon's descendant?
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Time to Ramble...
This third part of the tryptich, was designed to be a kick-ass battle. Lots of action, lots of excitement. All (or nearly all) the pipe had already been laid out. We had two of our toughest mortal villains (Demona and Macbeth) working with the mysterious and powerful Weird Sisters and the MEGA Archmage Plus, who possessed the power of Gate, Book and Eye. That seemed like some real competition for our good guys, who had wounded to protect.
It was time to go to war.
A few other soldiers:
Director: Dennis Woodyard
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
Writer: Lydia C. Marano
As the main titles were playing and Keith was narrating, my seven-year-old daughter Erin mentioned that Goliath and Darth Vader both do voices for phone companies.
Erin also figured out that Angela and Gabriel were being stalked by Demona, before she actually came on screen.
Goliath says it like a curse word when he realizes that A&G are being followed. That was how I wanted to use it. As I've mentioned before, the art staff eventually threatened a coup if I didn't drop it.
But if I ever get to do Gargoyles 2198, I'm bringing it back. That's a threat, not a promise.
Anyway, Goliath attempts to appeal to Demona and Macbeth's better natures. It starts to work, but it's too late. The Archmage has a good line: "They are my creatures now."
Then Bronx and Boudicca attack, saving our 'goyles. This was hinted at in Part Two. And clarified later when Angela comments on it. But it also was my way of serving notice that Bronx was no longer going to be the puppy-most-left-behind. The World Tour was his coming out party.
Anyway, the Archmage now changes his plan. Not because he doesn't want to take any chances, but really because his sensibilities have been offended. He has another good line: "If they are so eager to die..."
But it's really that balance I was trying to maintain between his newfound ultimate power and his original clichéd origins.
HUNTING HOLLOW HILLS
Elisa asks about the Sleeping King. The Magus says he's been sleeping in his Hollow Hill. More hints as to who the king was. (If the name Avalon wasn't hint enough.)
On the way, Elisa pumps Magus for information like he was in the interrogation room back home. She already guessed that he had a thing for Katharine. She wants the lowdown. It's really not her business. Call it a habit of her profession.
(There's an animation error on my tape, which I hope was corrected for later airings. When the Magus starts to narrate the flashback, both his and Elisa's mouth are moving, mouthing the same lines. Obviously, Elisa's animator misread the X-sheets and thought she was talking instead of the Magus.)
(Of course there's another semi-error which I've tried to explain away in the past. The lighting on the scene where Katharine and Tom play with the baby-gargs Angela, Gabe and Boudicca seems very daylight. I've always claimed that it was just a very bright moonlit night. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.)
This last flashback got my five year old son Benny talking. He asked "How did the gargoyles even get born?" And had to be reminded about the eggs from Part One (which we saw three weeks ago). "Oh, yeah," he said.
Then when we got to the Sleeping King, he compared that to a character that's on his radar: The sleeping MATA NUI from Bionicle.
The Magus uses magic, explaining that "magic is the lifeblood of Avalon." This seemed logical to me. That a practioner like the Magus could train himself to access that ambient magic -- but at a price.
My wife Beth was very impressed with Jeff Bennett's performance here. As a change of pace, Jeff was only playing one character -- as opposed to his usual fifty. But it was a truly heartbreaking performance, I think.
And I have to ask, given the Magus' first appearance in "Awakening, Part One", did you guys ever think that you could or would find that character this appealing, this sympathetic? I think that our ability to allow characters to grow and change was one of the hallmarks of our series. And I had the backbone of his change planned as early as "Awakening, Part Two": (1) his love for Katharine which is unequivocal and (2) his guilt over what he did to the gargoyles, which he never tries to dodge or make excuses for in any way.
The Leap of Faith. It does seem too Indiana Jones now. But obviously it must not have at the time. Either that or we were kidding ourselves. Still, I like Elisa here a lot.
The Platform lowers on cue and Elisa finally names the Sleeping King: "Arthur Pendragon, King of All Britain... You are needed." We wanted to keep it simple. That simple. I also wanted to begin establishing the name Pendragon. Everyone's heard of King Arthur. But you have to have had a bit of exposure to the legends to be familiar with the Pendragon name. I always thought it was cool. And I think that even then I had the notion of using it as the title for a spin-off.
Anyway, we get back to the Palace, and Elisa states a fact that I wonder if anyone had focused on before (regarding Demona and Macbeth): "You've never actually beaten either of them." Goliath agrees: "Simply foiled their plans or fought them to a stand still.
And then Arthur asks: "What's going on?" which I always thought was kind of funny. They're counting on him to help save the day. He doesn't even know the set up.
So while we get him up to speed, we cut to the Archmage who orders the Sisters to "Dispatch the Sleeping King." Erin smiles and says,, "What they don't know..." is that it's too late. But what I found interesting is that Erin actually did trail off. She knew that she didn't need to state what they didn't know. Cool.
DIVIDING THE TROOPS
True to Elisa's hopes (and my interpretation of the character of legend) Arthur in fact does immediately take charge.
He'll go with Elisa, Tom and Gabe to fight Demona & Macbeth.
Katharine, Bronx and Boudicca will guard the wounded 'eggs'. (Katharine has one of her bookend tough mom statements here: "They'll not harm my eggs again!")
Goliath and Angela will attack the Archmage.
And the Magus agrees to take on the Sisters.
Eventually -- after Art figures out that Demona feels Mac's pain and Demona establishes that she and Mac need to put distance between them to minimize the link -- things change a bit and Arthur faces Mac one-on-one, while Kathy, Bronx, Boudicca, Ophelia, Elisa, Tom and Gabe all team up to battle Demona -- who as always, may present the greatest threat of all, even when it's against her own interests.
All this seemed very appropriate to me. I like how the battle divides up. How the opponents match up. And you'll notice at the cliffhanger/commercial break that every one of our battles is going badly for the good guys. Macbeth seems to have the upper hand over Arthur. The Archmage has Goliath down. The Weird Sisters are clearly overpowering the Magus and even Demona is on the verge of wiping out all her opposition at the Palace.
KING ARTHUR PENDRAGON vs. MACBETH
We gave Arthur a mace, because I didn't want anyone to think that some random sword he was carrying might be Excalibur.
When Arthur says, "What manner of magic is this?" it made me wish we had just gone ahead and said "What sorcery is this?" like we usually did.
There's some fairly effective slo-mo animation in here. Slow motion in animation (when called for in scripts) usually makes me nervous. If not done well, it can just look like a poorly-timed, poorly-animated scene. But here it seems to work.
I like how the battle ends. Arthur takes the sword fragment, and for a second, it looks like he's going to skewer Mac. But instead he uses it to pin Mac to a tree. Setting him up for Arthur's punch into camera with his ringed fist. Disney S&P let us do that. ABC S&P didn't allow those kind of fist coming into camera shots on Goliath Chronicles. But I wasn't informed of the change in policy until after "The Journey" was animated.
PRINCESS KATHARINE, OPHELIA, BRONX, BOUDICCA, GABRIEL, THE GUARDIAN & ELISA MAZA vs. DEMONA
Ophelia gets another nice moment here, as even injured, she attempts to stop Demona.
Elisa again takes advantage of the fact that she knows that Demona's hatred for her is so extreme and irrational, that she'll literally drop her weapon for the chance to grapple with Elisa, the chance to tear her apart with her bare hands.
Of course, this is after Elisa demonstrates that she never carries enough ammo. After uselessly shooting at a beach and a hollow suit of armor, she's out of bullets by the time she gets a target of flesh and blood. Of course, we made Elisa a touch dopey in this department for S&P reasons. Elisa, being a NY cop, had to carry a gun. But short of doing an episode about gun violence like "Deadly Force" (which Toon Disney refuses to air these days), we couldn't actually let Elisa shoot anyone with her gun. So we found other uses and excuses.
But ultimately, it's Katharine who brings Demona down, looking quite intentionally like a medieval Ripley, saying the other bookend: "No one threatens my eggs."
THE MAGUS vs. PHOEBE, SELINE & LUNA: THE WEIRD SISTERS
Luna says to the Magus: "There is no future for you." That was a clue from the voice of fate. Anyone pick up on it?
I also like how all the Sisters say together: "You will suffer!" But of course, he's been suffering for decades. What he will soon be is free of all suffering...
I wanted to show here (among other things) that magic itself was neither good nor evil. Magic simply existed at the disposal of those with the power to wield it.
The Magus defeats the sisters and collapses onto Artie's platform. Erin asked quietly: "Did he die?" Benny looked for another way out: "He might have just lost his power."
GOLIATH & ANGELA vs. THE ARCHMAGE
Erin asked what the Archmage was planning for Goliath... and I had to answer something like "a painful death."
Goliath asks what I thought many of you might be asking: why doesn't the Magus just kill him. And David Warner answers as only he could: "Because I'm having too much fun."
We have all this Gate-Jumping. This was an afterthought. Because at one point I had thought of having our guys steal the gate back, I had forgotten to have the Archmage use the gate in the script. So at the board stage, I asked Dennis to put this in. We were very tight for time, but he obliged me. Ideally, I'd have liked to show them briefly in some other times, but I knew we just couldn't afford to design new layouts for two second shots. Even so, who knows where and when they went? Who knows how long they were gone? Sometimes their poses changed. But Goliath is like the Old Man of the Sea. He never lets go. And finally he takes the Eye away.
The Archmage is already in trouble, but how much he doesn't know for a few seconds. Then the power of the Grimorum destroys him from within. A nice creepy companion to him eating the book in Part Two.
And I love David's last line, the forlorn: "All my lovely magic..." Believe it or not, I had to fight a little to get that line in. Just a little. But still.
DEATH OF A HERO
The Magus' death stll moves me. His quiet desire for rest. Katharine's love for him. (Not romantic love, but love nonetheless.) K: "Oh, Magus, what have you done?"
The Magus still concerned that he owes a debt to Goliath and Goliath's forgiveness. The eyes closing and the star shooting overhead.
For S&P reasons, we decided not to make it absolute that he was dead. No one mentions death. Just rest. Sleep. And he is lying on the Sleeping King's platform by his own request.
And many fans, even adult fans, chose to believe he might still come back someday. Hey, more power to 'em, I guess.
But I felt/feel that would cheapen the moment. Cheapen the sacrifice. We sent our heroes into battle. And in battle, their are casualties. Some things are worth fighting for, but if we don't understand costs, then I want people to know that when something isn't worth fighting over, they shouldn't.
For various reasons, many of our voice actors in this episode recorded their lines separately. So we recorded each character saying goodbye to everyother character. Not knowing exactly what we would use. We, in my opinion, wound up using too much of these wild goodbyes. It's very awkward sounding to me now.
Gabe & Goliath establish why Gabe and his clan don't join Goliath in Manhattan and why Goliath doesn't bring his clan back to Avalon. Though both clans are born of the old Wyvern Clan, both have found new homes, which they will not abandon.
But Angela has a bit of Demona in her. The iconoclast, she wants more than normal clan life has to offer. She wants to see the world with Goliath. He proudly agrees. He wants one of his children with him. Gabriel and Angela say goodbye. He refers to her here as his rookery sister (not as his "Angel of the Night" or some other equivalent). This was done to make clear that they regarded each other as brother and sister, not mates. I basically wanted to leave her unattached for the Trio. Nevertheless, many fans still thought that they were a couple.
Art goes off on his own to be less conspicuous, and Goliath laughs a borderline Thailog laugh. He also plants pipe for Arthur's eventual stop in Manhattan.
Mac & Demona are freed from the spell, leaving them with no memory since they were first ensorcelled. There's an awkward bit of business here as the gargs who were guarding them move away, just so that Goliath can move in and push the skiff off. Flaw in the boarding that no one caught, I'm afraid.
The Sisters move off, having been forced off-camera to explain most everything.
Bronx & Boudicca part. Now that's a couple.
More pipe: Goliath swears that no one will ever use the eye or the Gate again. Famous last words.
Tom: "Elisa, I thought you understood. Avalon doesn't send you where you want to go! Avalon sends you where you need to be!"
Both Elisa and Erin said: What does that mean? at about the same time.
What did you think when you first heard that? We had officially launched the World Tour, but you didn't know it yet. What were you thinking?
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours...?
There's no memo, outline or script for this one on my computer, so we'll head right into my ramble on...
"AVALON, PART ONE"
DIRECTOR: Dennis Woodyard.
WRITER: Lydia Marano.
STORY EDITOR: Brynne Chandler Reaves.
...is all over the place. So much was coming together in this three-parter. The Weird Sisters, the eggs, the Archmage, Tom, Princess Katharine, the Magus, Macbeth, Demona. This was our most ambitious story yet. Which given episodes like "The Mirror" or "Vows" and multi-parters like "Awakening" and "City of Stone" was saying something.
Of course "Avalon" was never designed to be the cohesive single story movie that "City of Stone" was. It was designed as a tryptych. Part one would bring our heroes up to date. Part two would bring our villains up to date. Part three would pit them against each other.
"Avalon I" also represented the first episode in our fourth tier. The three-parter was what we called a 'tentpole'. We knew we couldn't air it until all the Tier 3 episodes had aired. And we knew we couldn't air any other Tier 4 episodes until this three-parter had aired. Despite the fact that "The Price" aired out of order, generally our Tentpole/Tier system worked very well. Out of 66 episodes that I worked on only two: "The Price" and "Kingdom" aired out of order, hopefully with minimal damage to the continuity.
The title was one of mine. But initially I wasn't sure that we were going to call the island Avalon. Now, it's mind-boggling to me, but I actually had my assistant Monique Beatty (who's now a producer in her own right) research Brigadoon to find out if that name was created only for the musical, or if it was something pulled from legends. I was thinking of Avalon, but looking for something from a Scotish tradition as opposed to British. Fortunately, Brigadoon was created for the musical. So we were 'stuck' with Avalon. Which made including King Arthur a natural.
Many series don't reveal that an episode is going to be a multi-parter until you get to the 'To Be Continued' line at the closer. "Avalon, Part One" could have just been titled "Avalon". The conventional wisdom is that people are reluctant to commit the time to a multi-parter in advance. That it is better to hook them on the story before revealing that they HAVE to come back to see the end. I always felt that was cheating. What is your reaction to seeing "Part One" attached to a title?
Another cool shot of our gargs waking up. Always nice to reiterate that at the start of our bigger stories.
Bronx gets left behind. Of course, this often happens. It was one of the things that the World Tour would set about correcting in a BIG way. But we made his getting left behind a bit more obvious here. Usually, he just doesn't go. This time they won't take him and he's sad. We were laying pipe.
My 5-year-old son Benny asked where Hudson and the Trio were going. I had to think about it. "On Patrol, I guess."
Then the GUARDIAN shows up. I love his cool, Goliath-inspired armor. My 7-year-old daughter Erin immediately demanded to know who he was. I wouldn't tell her. (I'm so mean.) Did any of you guess?
Of course he immediately encounters BRENDAN & MARGOT. (What would one of our multi-parters be without him?)
Then comes the three gang-bangers from "AWAKENING, PART THREE". As usual, Keith David does the voice for one of them -- making it distinctive from both Goliath and MORGAN, who's about to come in and speak. The problem is we got a touch confused. In Awakening, Keith voices the bald white guy. Here he does the same voice, but it's assigned to the black guy. Hard to say which is wrong, except by virtue of which came first. It annoys me though.
Morgan's fun in this. I really like him. No one but Simon DelMonte will get this, and I don't know if he even reads these rambles, but Morgan kind of reminds me of Jeff Goslin, a character that Cary Bates and I created in Captain Atom.
Anyway, I like how Morgan talks Guardian down. And I like how the sword is much heavier than he thought it was going to be. His cop buddies tease him, but he maintains his sense of wonder and goodness when talking about the Guardian to Elisa.
That's kind of a cool scene. First off he describes Guardian's armor: "Real armor. King Arthur stuff." Anyone think this was a clue to what was coming in the next episode? Even with the Avalon title? Then he tells her the guy's looking for Gargoyles. Elisa of course discourages her fellow officers from taking Garg reports seriously. Everyone who's seen one must be a nut-case. These guys should form 'a club'. Then she finds out that this Guardian was asking for Goliath by name. BOOM.
Site of our last encounter with Demona and Macbeth. Another clue.
Once Elisa got a look at the Guardian's armor, she must have thought -- yeah, there's a Goliath connection here all right.
Goliath shows with Bronx, who gets to come along and come along and come along for once. Bronx always seemed underutilized to us. We knew we couldn't bring the whole clan along. (Too many characters and no poignancy.) But Bronx was an easy addition. Of course, Bronx is also useful as a kind of living personality test. If Bronx likes you, it's a damn good sign. Bronx likes Tom. Does he remember him? What scents do you figure the Guardian carried back from Avalon. Anyway, Bronx engenders immediate trust in the Guardian for Goliath.
I love this scene. Guardian gives everyone so little time to catch up. He talks about the Archmage, reveals that he's Tom and talks about 'the eggs' being in danger. *That was a fun idea. Keep you guys thinking in terms of eggs for twenty minutes and reveal that it's just a pet name for the Avalon Clan.*
Benny asked: "What kind of Eggs?"
Erin: "Gargoyle Eggs."
Benny: "I didn't know Gargoyles hatch out of eggs." [Well, keep in mind it's been a year since he saw the first thirty episodes. And he's too young to remember the first time he saw the ones we're watching now.]
Then there's the skiff. Elisa: "Where'd that boat come from? ... To where? The other side of the lake? ... Wait for me!"
This all sounds fishy to her. Nothing makes sense. I wanted to get a clear shot in there of the pond in Central Park so that you could see objectively that it doesn't go anywhere. But I never quite managed that. I wanted you guys to be confused. Or at any rate to have a million questions. But like Elisa, no matter how suspicious, I figured you'd want to go along for the ride.
Mary, Katharine, the Magus and young Tom are all reintroduced. It's very clear that the first three have all learned their lesson from Awakening. They've all really become better people. Tom, of course, didn't need to learn that lesson. But he does learn to be a hero. He officially becomes the Guardian. It begins, I believe, as just a nice gesture on the part of the Princess. Later, of course, it'll become the truth. Then there's the long journey. I like the montage there. Hardship. We never had the time to show enough of the hardship of tenth century life.
Our gang heads into Edinburgh. Constantine's followers are all over the place. They all seem to look like Disney storyboard artists for some reason. ;)
There's some stellar voice work in this ep. Morgan Shepard as King Kenneth II. Sheena Easton making her Garg Premiere as Finella. Ian Buchanan as Constantine. (I've already mentioned Keith's versatility.)
But as usual, real props must be handed out to Jeff Bennnett and Kath Soucie.
Jeff plays Brooklyn, the Magus and Maol Chalvim. (No Bruno or Owen or Vinnie in this ep, I'm afraid.)
Kath plays Katharine, Mary and all three Weird Sisters.
Benny saw Finella and said: "That's one of the witches."
A year ago, Tom was his favorite character. Now Tom barely registered. And he really is fascinated with the Weird Sisters. Anyway, I corrected him, but I was glad that they were appearing later.
Ian Buchanan, once of General Hospital, is playing a cad here. We have to very quickly set up a lot of politics, sexual and otherwise. This story was as historical as we could make it based on the available research, the fact that we had to fit in a few fictional characters and eggs, and screen time compression.
Believe it or not, we also had another character originally that we cut early on because it was just getting too damn complicated. Katharine and Maol Chalvim's cousin: the future King Kenneth III. The father of Bodhe. Yep. That Bodhe. The father of Gruoch.
Kenneth III winds up being made High King of Scotland after Constantine is killed. To get a sense of their relationship, at least as I see it, you might want to check out "Once upon a time there were three brothers..."
(Or to give you a hint, ten years after the events depicted here, King Kenneth III would be murdered by Maol Chalvim's operatives during a civil war. Maol Chalvim was also known as Malcolm Forranach, the Destroyer. We used the Maol Chalvim version of his name so as not to confuse him with Katharine's father Prince Malcolm. Just as in City of Stone we emphasized Malcolm Canmore's Canmore name for the same reason.)
Anyway, Maol Chalvim seems intense but right on the money here. He's even kind of heroic when he and the Magus bring Tom back to Katharine's apartment, and he begs Katharine to go. Kind of heroic. He still leaves her. We were trying very hard to balance out his minor role here with his future roll as the grandfather of and major influence on Duncan. (Of course, he's also Macbeth's grandfather, as well.)
After Katharine tells Maol to go, there's a weird cut of him just standing there smiling. We needed some kind of transition before he took off running, and I guess that was the best we could do. But it's still awkward as hell.
But I'm getting ahead of myself.
We establish early on that Katharine doesn't think much of Constantine. You wouldn't know it from Awakening, but obvioulsy she's learned to be a decent judge of character.
Kenneth isn't quite so sharp. Everyone can see that he's a fool for Finella. And he doesn't recognize Constantine's threat (despite the fact that Constantine's father was a bitter enemy and) despite the fact that his son flat out tells him to beware. My thinking was that the crown had kept bouncing back and forth between different branches of the royal family. Kenneth had hoped that by taking Constantine in, instead of banishing him, he'd be able to be a positive influence on the boy. A nice idea perhaps, but maybe Kenneth was too innattentive to pull it off. And Maol probably was too covetous to really be a brother to young Con.
Anyway, Constantine tricks Finella and kills the king. We hear Finella sobbing, just to prove that she was neither in on it nor that she would approve of it. (Though one wonders what her reaction would have been down the road if Constantine hadn't spurned her in favor of Katharine. Would she have adjusted to the crime? Or did Constantine become an unredeemable villain in her eyes immediately? I hate to say it, but I tend to think it's the former. Actually, I don't hate to say it. She's more interesting to write that way.)
Erin asked: "He killed King Arthur? Why?"
That's a tough question. So first I had to explain that it was King Kenneth, not King Arthur. Then my wife Beth helped out by explaining that Constantine wanted to be king.
We come back from the act and we see that Constantine was ready for the takeover. The Banners are immediately changed in a scene clearly inspired by the Ian McKellan (spelling?) movie version of Shakespeare's Richard III. (A version I heartily recommend, by the way.)
We also continue to set up the Magus' own tragedy. He loves Katharine. Has loved her since before Awakening. That feeling is shown to deepen here when she is once again in danger. And when Constantine tries to coerce her into marrying him. (The astute Mary and Tom have to hold him back.) Here, we sense that maybe Katharine might some day return that love. That's what I wanted you all to think anyway. Did you?
Constantine takes his crown. Originally we wanted to stage this with the Stone of Destiny as we did with Macbeth. But again, I think we just had too many sets.
Michaelmas. I just like that word.
Constantine is fairly astute himself: "You have 36 very good reasons to obey." We kept reiterating the number of eggs for what was coming later.
The Magus disguises broken pots as eggs and vice-versa. But it always seemed to me that the kitchen staff at Edinburgh sure broke a lot of pots. I mean a LOT!
I like the lines: "Taking the wee bairns for a walk?" and "I don't think I like Gargoyle eggs." Very menacing.
Princess K burns her wedding dress. She feels she cannot leave because C will follow her to "the ends of the Earth." So the Magus responds: "Then I will take you beyond them." Again. Very romantic moment between them.
Finella joins the troop. The WOMAN SCORNED. She's really fun now. Dangerous. I always laugh when Constantine drinks the brew and collapses so abruptly.
Erin: "The Weird Sisters". My kids are just fascinated with this trio. I wonder if they still will be by the end of this three-parter or if like many fans, they will be disappointed?
They get turned into owls. But the Magus worries about giving up the source of his power. K doesn't care about that.
And Finella and Mary agree to take the book. I love these two. I think they'd make a totally kick-ass team. I doubt it would be commercial enough, but I'd love to do a spin-off show just with these two women. At any rate, there was the plan to include them as recurring characters in TimeDancer.
Tom has to leave his mother and his childhood behind. Now his role as the Guardian is a way for Katharine to make him accept the loss. It is the start of their relationship, though neither knows it. I watch this now, and I can't help thinking of the Anakin & Padma relationship and where that's destined to go.
Back to the present. We see the impressive shores of Avalon. Very cool painting.
Bronx reacts. Guardian: "He's found the eggs..." And the music swells and two gargs and a garg beast appear on the cliff.
Now is that a cliff-hanger or what? What was your reaction?
Erin and Benny wanted "to see ther rest!" I told them they'd have to wait a week and we got a lot of protesting. Just what I was hoping for.
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
1.Why didn't Kenner make any action figures of the characters that we saw in the World Tour? They might have made some money with Griff, Arthur, Nokkar, Cuchullain, Golem or Fara Maku figures so why didn't they?
2.Whose idea was it to have the World Tour?
1. They only wanted to make toys based on characters who appeared in a large percentage of episodes. And sometimes, not even then.
2. Mine, largely.
The dreamtime in Australian legend was where life began and the abode of the gods so is this true in the gargoyles universe?
I just thought Goliath and Dingo¡¯s battle with Matrix is quite similar to shaman battles so was it suppose to be a Shaman battle?
Shamanistic certainly. We did our best given our resources.
How did Fara Maku find Karadigi when nobody else found it?
Maybe for once, Anansi wanted it to be found...
Were that guy and his son we saw in eye of the storm 100% human? What happened to the kid's mother?
Why didn¡¯t Banshee kill Bronx and Rory when they climbed out of the pit? Why did she take him back to his home after she kissed him? Why didn¡¯t she do anything to Bronx?
Was Banshee the original Deathworm that inspired the legends or was the original another child of Oberon? If not what was it?
It would really help if you'd number your questions.
1. There's no one simple answer. But she wanted to avoid waking Rory. An actual attack might have triggered the very thing she feared.
1a. She was trying to put him back to sleep.
2. She said that she didn't perceive him as a real threat.
3. I believe so.
If Avalon only dropped Goliath and company off in Manhattan to deal with Oberon, then why did their skiff sink? Wouldn't it have remained if it still had more tasks for them?
It didn't. But it also didn't simply drop them off to let them come home. Sometimes things can have more than one purpose.
From what source of water did Goliath and co. arrive in Tiber?
Were there any other guest characters there besides Coldstone?
How did Coldstone get from New York to Tibet? Did he fly there? If so how did he maintain his supply of rocket fuel?
Tibet, not Tiber. Two very different places.
1. I'm not telling.
2. Yes, technically.
3. He got there, mostly by flight. But let me ask you... how do you know he even uses rocket fuel?
ok, you've said that Angela would say the spell to reach Avalon after each adventure. well, at the end of "Bushido" its daytime and Angela is asleep, but yet the travelers still disappear into the mist, and i mean they really vanish, not just fade into the mist. at first i thought maybe Elisa could've said the spell, but if you watch the episode shes talking to the Ishimuran guy and herself as the travelors dissapear, so SHE didn't say the spell either. so how did the travelers dissappear without saying the spell?
sorry to try and trap you like this, but its only fair the way you dodge our questions! LOL, kidding! :) if you don't have an answer its ok!
I'd have to look at it again. Elisa may have ALREADY said the spell. Or maybe that fog was just thick Japanese fog. And she said the spell after the fade.
I would think that Angela would generally be the one to say it. But after Goliath and Elisa had heard it over and over, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to do it too.
Do the other clans existing throughout the world all speak English so well? Are they fluent in a more native tongue? I didn't expect Golaith, etc. to be able to communicate so easily with foreign clans or did this just have to do with the simple fact that the TV show was being watched by a majority of Americans? (Basically the same as asking why all the aliens in Star Trek English fluently)
I would have liked to have done more with foreign languages during the world tour, but that was actually vetoed by our bosses.
We'll assume for now, just for now, that Zafiro, Kai and the others had reason to learn English.
Why do none of the New Olimpians bother to tell Goliath that there are other Gargoyles on New Olimpis? Where do the other gargoyles live on the island? How big is the Island? it looked like it was just one floating city.
It's fairly big. They may have thought Goliath knew. The Gargoyles of New Olympus are isolationists, even from their fellow citizens.
Hi Greg, is it July 4th now? You seem to be making quite the effort to catch up to us. Just know that I have a big list of questons that I havn't even asked yet. Anyway, to the question.
When Goliath and co. returned to N.Y., what did they do with the skiff? Did it sink like Arther's? And when they got back, was it from the lake near Belveder Castle, or in from the Atlantic or what?
It sank. And I like to think they took the same approach as Goliath took in "Future Tense", but without the devastation.
And it's currently July 20th.
Was there a reason that so many of the world tour eps were about locals learning to accept thier responcibility and or heritage seriously (ie. heritage, hound of ulster, cloud fathers, golem)?
What exactly is the dreamtime? Is it like the astral plane?
When the Goliath & co. finished the egypt ep, they just calmly turned to stone in front of the spinx. Since they weren't sure what happend to they pack, weren't they being a bit careless about where they slept, or were they confident that Elisa could protect them from Wolf, Jackel AND Hyena?
Choose your own interpretation. Just keep in mind... nothing happened.
Any plans on retconning parts of Hound of Ulster?
No. My only regret there is that I didn't put Cu Chullain's armor and skeleton in the Cairn with Goliath, Angela and Elisa.
The Native Peoples of NA came to NA VIA the Bering Strait some thousands of years ago.
1) When Oberon dispatched his "family" to live among mortals, did Raven make his way imediatly to Q.F.I off Canada?
2)Did Raven "take on" the persona of "The Raven" based on Native legend, or was he always "Raven"?
3) As you have said, you never know if that is Pucks true form (As the in the elvish form). Does this, as well, apply to the Other children? Was that Raven's true form?
4) Does Raven have a true form?
5) Did the "Raven" legend spring from "Raven" himself?
6) What WAS that thing Grandmother turned into??? (the thing with the weird mouth).
Your initial premise is scientifically accepted. But I think many Native American Tribes disagree. It doesn't fit their legends and holy stories. For the purposes of Gargoyles, I'm not taking sides. All things are true.
1. Keep in mind that what Oberon mainly did was to banish the Children from Avalon and insist that they not interfere with mortal lives. It's not like Raven had never been among mortals up to that point.
2. He's Raven.
3. It applies to ALL the other children. Including Raven.
4. Do any of them?
5. See question 2.
6. I assume you mean Thunderbird. (She says that in the episode.)
In "Eye of the Storm", Erik and Gunther's surname was "Sturluson". Was this an allusion to Snorri Sturluson, the author of the Prose Edda (one of the leading primary sources on Norse mythology)?
Absolutely, my friend.
Did Goliath, elisa, Angela & Bronx return to Avolon in between every world tour episode? If so was it just to go there and quickly leave, or did they have more adventures there? And when they leave do they just sail into the mist and land where ever Avolon wants?
Sometimes it was quick and leave. Sometimes they stayed longer. Sometimes they arrived at sunrise and HAD to stay.
Please, do me a favor and number your questions in the future.
The show states that gargoyles can withstand very cold tempretures, but how about hot? I'm asking cause Goliath and co fly close to the Magma in two volcanos and seems fine. BTW, can volcanos be like that and not be active?
On Avalon they can. I'm not an expert otherwise. But I also never said they were NOT active.
Gargoyles raised in Scotland don't do quite as well in the heat. But they are generally pretty tough cookies. They can take most anything for brief periods of time.
just watched "The Hound of Ulster", and (arn't you surprised?) i had some questions:
1. when the Banche saved Goliath, Elisa, and Angela from drowning in the bog, how did she do it? did she transport them to that chamber, or was that chamber directly below the bog or what?
2. How old is Rory? and how old is Molly? Rory said he was out of school and i'm asuming he means high school... so is he, 19? 20?
3. after the episode, what and how much did Rory tell his father? everything?
and as Gargoyles is known for its foreshadowing:
4. when Goliath said, "A whole clan of gargoyles could not batter down these walls!" were you thinking of the Irish garg clan you've said existed being in that same chamber ever?
5. Rory said, "The Hound of Ulster? Sure, and dwarves made me shoes..." well, the hound turned out to exist, so DID dwarves make Rory's shoes? :)
1. She transported them.
2. I don't have that information with me at this time. But he's under 20 in that episode.
3. I'm not committing to that right now.
5. Not the ones he was wearing at that moment. But the Nike's he had back in his closet.
When you first had Xanatos and Owen mention the Emir in "The Edge", did you know that he'd feature in an episode in a prominent role at that time? Did you when you got to their mention of him in "Double Jeopardy"?
Edge - No.
DJ - I was beginning to suspect that everything would eventually be used.
Are there actual gargoyles that resemble Raven's clan of illusion?
Ok, this has been on my mind for a while, and checked the archives and didn't find it there.
What was Raven hoping to gain by driving everyone away from Queen Florence Island in "Heritage". I don't really understand his motivations there.
I used to live on Queen Florence Lane in Woodland Hills, California.
He was looking to gain power. Queen Florence Island was a place of power. He didn't want to share.
Was there a point To Xanatos finding out that Goliath was missing in "Kingdom" other than to prove that Brooklen is a good desision maker? Xanatos did meet up with Goliath in Arazona, but that seemed to be a coincidence that he turned to his advantage in finding Cyotie (the trickster, not the robot :^). Was this a point you wanted to expand more on?
Yes, it was. Never got to it, unfortunately.
But there's an untold story in there somewhere.
This is something that I should be posting later, ideally, since you haven't yet gotten to the Avalon World Tour episodes in your ramblings, but I finally decided that I needed to let this out of me soon, so I'm doing so now.
I've noticed, over the years since I discovered "Gargoyles" fandom on the Internet, that many people didn't like the Avalon World Tour for various reasons (the length of time, the absence of Hudson and the trio, the focus on myth and fantasy aspects rather than more "mundane" elements like crime-fighting, etc.). On the other hand (while I may have had my moments of wondering when Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx were going to get back to New York), I quite liked the World Tour. To a certain extent, I'll admit that I'm biased - my tastes naturally run towards fantasy/myth elements. But after doing a little thinking on this one, it increasngly struck me that, aside from all that, something of the nature of the Avalon World Tour was a must for "Gargoyles" at some point.
The reason for this is that the World Tour served a very crucial purpose (besides the general one that you mentioned of expanding the "Gargoyles Universe"). It made it clear that Goliath, his clan, and Demona weren't the only gargoyles left. And that was a crucial step. Because if they really had been, the gargoyle species would have been almost irrevocably doomed to extinction, with only seven members left, only one of those seven a female, and that one estranged from all the rest and very unlikely to reconcile with them. Goliath and the others would have been the "last gargoyles", not only in the sense of being the only ones left, but also in the sense that no new gargoyles would come along after them.
If that had been the case, it would have obviously made a rather depressing series. Admittedly, having the main character be the "very last of his kind" wouldn't necessarily be utterly melancholy - Superman is the very last Kryptonian, and his story's an upbeat one, on the whole. But the situation there's different; Superman's alien origin is treated more as a plot device to explain his abilities, so his being "the last of his kind" doesn't appear quite so melancholy. Goliath and his clan's "gargoyleness", however, was treated in the series from the start as a crucial part of them and their very nature, rather than a similar handy plot device to allow them to serve as effective protectors of New York. And also, it was clear enough from the start that an important part of the series would be the gargoyles seeking to make peace with humanity, to overcome the fear that so many humans view them with. Such a quest would have been futile (in a sense) if they were the last of their kind - the understanding on humanity's part of the true nature of gargoyles would come too late to avert the race's extinction - the best that the gargs would be able to hope for in such a situation was that they might be able to live out their last years without the general human population hunting them down, but still aware that there would be no new gargoyles after them. Not very happy.
So there'd obviously have to be gargoyles living in other parts of the world to ensure a future for the species. And Goliath and his clan would have to come into contact with those other gargoyles for the audience to see that they weren't the last. But the clan's situation would make that tricky. For one thing, there'd be the obvious transportation problems - they can't simply hop aboard the next plane bound for London or Japan. And given how secretive gargoyle clans would obviously have to be in modern times, even if Goliath and Co. had a mundane means of transportation to wherever it was that one of these clans was living, they would certainly not be likely to find out about these other clans easily. The only solution to both questions that wouldn't feel contrived was magic - as in the magic of Avalon that sends you where you need to be. That way, Goliath could be brought to the locations of the clans in London, Guatemala, and Ishimura in a convincing fashion.
So I think that the Avalon World Tour was indeed a practical must for the series, to allow the crucial moment when the clan can learn, as Hudson put it in "The Gathering", "We're not alone. We're not the last."
Hey, pal, I'm with you.
From moment one, we wanted to present an OPTIMISTiC world view, that mirrored Goliath's own. (Not that he hasn't had a bad moment or mood or two.)
The World Tour was a necessity from that stand point for all the reasons you stated.
Plus it was a necessity given some of my future plans. 2198 immediately comes to mind. But there was other stuff too.
What was the purpose of the episode Cloud Fathers? Was it to introduce Coyote the trickster or Beth?
There were many purposes. (Though Beth had already been introduced.) Mostly, I thought it was a good story.
Did you have plans for Tea's hunter friends?
For the poachers. No. Nothing specific at this time. But you never know. I'm not a particularly wasteful guy.
Whatever happened to that guy and his son that we saw in eye of the storm? Do you have plans for them?
Erik and Gunnar. Yes.
obviously Elisa told Matt about many of the World Tour adventures (i.e. Hunters Moon- Easter Island Statues) did she tell him about the New Olympians? did she tell any other humans? did Goliath and co. tell the trio and Hudson about the New Olympians?
My guess is that Elisa told Matt some of their adventures, but not everyone. She probably left out the New Olympians as (a) not her secret to reveal and (b) not the most fun adventure for her.
But I'm guessing that either Goliath or Angela eventually told Hudson and the Trio EVERYTHING.
Hey Greg, it's been awhile since I posted.
My question is
1) Was it Avalon's magic that enabled Goliath and co. to talk to Zafiro, Kai etc. during the world tour?
2) If yes then would the residents of New Olympus speak some Mediterranean language?
No. Those other guys spoke English. (Not exclusively, but they were clearly fluent.)
<i>You said that the yeti would be seen in Gargoyles for sure. Is it an animal elated to the gargoyles or a gargoyle.
That story is actually written. It was written for Marvel's Gargoyle comic book before it was cancelled.</i>
Would Coldstone have been involved with this story?