Jimmy_Q writes...

Now there's a HUGE difference between 994 Scotland and 1994 U.S. Wouldn't the differences in vocabulary, word usage, etc. between these times and places reflect that? If Goliath learned to read and write in 994 Scotland then how was it that he awoke in Manhattan seemingly capable of reading and comprehending modern day American literature? Did he somehow work on his literacy skills outside the series or what? I figured that, as the ultimate all-knowing diety of the gargoyle universe, you would know this.

Jessica Cotten writes...

Hey Greg,

Well, either I can't find my answered questions(there are a lot)or I just asked them in a way that wasn't appropriate. Oh well. Anyway, if you ever get to do gargoyles again would you use Timedancer or would you maybe use a different idea if a better one surfaced? Timedancer is good, but I wouldn't put Brooklyn with someone so different. Maybe, but then again; you are the one writing the shows not me.

Since I can't find my questions. Could you e-mail me at Alexlyons3@hotmail.com

Punchinello writes...

Hello Mr. Weisman.

I don't come here often, but occasionally I'm struck by the urge to quiz you on something. I was browsing the questions you're fielding, and I was struck again by something I notice every time I visit this page. There seems to be some preoccupation here with "the mind of the other." I noticed another poster make reference to your interest in it (although I cannot find any record of your having initiated the discussion).

While the series was still active I saw you invoke this theme frequently whenever you emphasized the cultural shock that the gargoyles experienced in modern America, and I appreciated the fact that you treated our linguistic tendencies to "name everything" as a curious human social construction. It helped to push the idea that these creatures were _not_ human and that we could not understand their natures or their motivations from within the context of human sensibilities. I see there is some similar talk here of the fay, and the notion that their essential nature might be something that is sufficiently far removed from humans so as to be outside our understanding. All of this puts me in mind of the anthropomorphic problem that the SETI administration outlined for dealing with the idea of extraterrestrial intelligence's. Human beings have a tendency to ascribe human values to non human species, and beyond that have considerable difficulty in contextualizing "the mind of the other" without unconsciously resorting to the context of human sensibilities.

Which brings me to the reason for this post; because being a student of the sciences (and probably less attached to my humanity than most people), I have found reason to be extremely critical of some of the aspects of the way the anthropomorphic problem is treated within the natural sciences as it applies to non-human animals. Generally speaking, my problem is that some of the more archaic ethical distinctions that are made between humans and other animals have their foundation in the premise that the ascription of certain mental capacities ( reflection, emotion, etc.) are the ascription of _uniquely human_ qualities. The fact that this premise, itself, is socially constructed rather than informed by data, seems to be lost on at least most _social_ scientists. What is troubling me is that I have begun to observe this kind of thinking migrate into the popular domain through science fiction. I don't really follow sci fi, but I've seen star trek, and I have had occasion to see the half-dozen or so other popular sci fi programs that one can find on television. I see a trend wherein the heroes casual disintegration of a planet is commonly justified with the hazily defined and indistinct ethics of "It did not harbor any sentient life."

This trend is scaring the hell out of me; because the expression "sentient" is not really used within the scientific community, so it does not have any agreed upon definition attached to it and there is no objective data informing the idea of it. The word seems to have infiltrated popular culture, however, where it finds frequent expression. That's what's bothering me. I see a lot of the same hazy ethical reasoning on this board. A number of messages expressing the confusion that humans in your story were subject to when they "mistook the gargoyles for animals rather than sentient beings" and in doing so, justified a campaign to exterminate them.

I would hope that a reasonable group of people would be given pause by the almost casual disregard for life that is being demonstrated with the prioritization of one life over another based upon the presence or non-presence of this seemingly magical endowment. Because if I am reading the intentions of the contributors to this board accurately, then it would appear their position is that if the occupants of that clock tower had been a group of stray dogs or a family of polar bears, then annihilating them with a wire guided missile would have been perfectly reasonable. "It's all right. It didn't harbor any sentient life." I would encourage the fans that come to this site to give some thought to what it is they mean by "sentience." What is the content of this sentience? If it entails that a creature can react to it's environment, anticipate, reflect and emote, then it should be pointed out that what available data exists indicates that this capacity is only about as exclusive a domain as most land based vertebrates.

I guess they shouldn't have disintegrated that planet after all. I hope to encourage others to give this issue the thought that it requires. I am also hoping to elicit some commentary from you, on the matter of how you perceive "the mind of the other." What mental distinctions do you draw between humans and gargates or faeries. I would be interested in hearing you address the notion.

Punchinello

Jim R. writes...

This is something I've been wanting to ask for a while.

A lot of information on the net in relation to Gargoyles is the criticism reports I read. Critics who evaluated Gargoyles say that as for children, it's a good show to teach morals, right-and-wrong differences, and social problems. They especially mention the episode "Deadly Force" in particular as a lesson learning experience about the dangers of weapons.

But, as for those of us adults, we believe Gargoyles was Disney's way of appealing to a more mature audience. Most of us would say its attractive because of the story, characters, episodes, Shakespearian underlyings, or the overall fictional universe idea makes it interesting. These things, I think, are what make adults come to Gatherings or purchuse merchandise, etc.

So, my question is: Who would you agree with more? The people like us fans, who ask you questions, still watch the series on our VCRs, and adore the story. Or, the critics who would say that Gargoyles is a good children's cartoon, suitable for teaching them lessons of behavior, ethics, etc.

Todd Jensen writes...

You mentioned once that you somewhat regretted calling the fay in "Gargoyles" "Oberon's Children", because that led some of the audience to get the wrong impression, and believe that the fay were Oberon's biological offspring. Actually, I was recently watching my tape of "Heritage", and noted a strong piece of evidence for Oberon not being the biological father of them (or at least not all of them). In the episode, Raven describes Grandmother as his cousin. That would certainly indicate that they are not biological siblings and therefore do not share a common father in that sense. So the series does have something to make it clear (for the observant) that the faeries aren't Oberon's children in that sense. I just thought that you'd like to know.

Sloth writes...

Ok, I think i'm outa worthwhile questions for the moment so i'll just make a comment about the show. One thing I really like about gargoyles (besides the great music, animation, story and characters) is it's hudge vocabulary. I remember when I was younger, the show taught me to use some cool words such as: subterfuge, cataclisim, clishe, abomination and many others that I can't think of right now. Just thought I'd mention someting that i thinks gone unmentioned.
Great work yall!

Ricky writes...

Greg,
Thanks for responding to my questions. I've written about four novels, but none of them have been accepted. Maybe it's my style of writting I don't know...but perhaps we can help each other in this matter. Would it be all right if I sent you a story on this web page despite it being against your guidelines...I'd like someone to read it, and since it's about Max Steel I thought you would be the more appropiate person to send it to. Just take a look and if you like it then perhaps we can colabrate on something.
Thanx

Todd Jensen writes...

This is something that I should be posting later, ideally, since you haven't yet gotten to the Avalon World Tour episodes in your ramblings, but I finally decided that I needed to let this out of me soon, so I'm doing so now.

I've noticed, over the years since I discovered "Gargoyles" fandom on the Internet, that many people didn't like the Avalon World Tour for various reasons (the length of time, the absence of Hudson and the trio, the focus on myth and fantasy aspects rather than more "mundane" elements like crime-fighting, etc.). On the other hand (while I may have had my moments of wondering when Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx were going to get back to New York), I quite liked the World Tour. To a certain extent, I'll admit that I'm biased - my tastes naturally run towards fantasy/myth elements. But after doing a little thinking on this one, it increasngly struck me that, aside from all that, something of the nature of the Avalon World Tour was a must for "Gargoyles" at some point.

The reason for this is that the World Tour served a very crucial purpose (besides the general one that you mentioned of expanding the "Gargoyles Universe"). It made it clear that Goliath, his clan, and Demona weren't the only gargoyles left. And that was a crucial step. Because if they really had been, the gargoyle species would have been almost irrevocably doomed to extinction, with only seven members left, only one of those seven a female, and that one estranged from all the rest and very unlikely to reconcile with them. Goliath and the others would have been the "last gargoyles", not only in the sense of being the only ones left, but also in the sense that no new gargoyles would come along after them.

If that had been the case, it would have obviously made a rather depressing series. Admittedly, having the main character be the "very last of his kind" wouldn't necessarily be utterly melancholy - Superman is the very last Kryptonian, and his story's an upbeat one, on the whole. But the situation there's different; Superman's alien origin is treated more as a plot device to explain his abilities, so his being "the last of his kind" doesn't appear quite so melancholy. Goliath and his clan's "gargoyleness", however, was treated in the series from the start as a crucial part of them and their very nature, rather than a similar handy plot device to allow them to serve as effective protectors of New York. And also, it was clear enough from the start that an important part of the series would be the gargoyles seeking to make peace with humanity, to overcome the fear that so many humans view them with. Such a quest would have been futile (in a sense) if they were the last of their kind - the understanding on humanity's part of the true nature of gargoyles would come too late to avert the race's extinction - the best that the gargs would be able to hope for in such a situation was that they might be able to live out their last years without the general human population hunting them down, but still aware that there would be no new gargoyles after them. Not very happy.

So there'd obviously have to be gargoyles living in other parts of the world to ensure a future for the species. And Goliath and his clan would have to come into contact with those other gargoyles for the audience to see that they weren't the last. But the clan's situation would make that tricky. For one thing, there'd be the obvious transportation problems - they can't simply hop aboard the next plane bound for London or Japan. And given how secretive gargoyle clans would obviously have to be in modern times, even if Goliath and Co. had a mundane means of transportation to wherever it was that one of these clans was living, they would certainly not be likely to find out about these other clans easily. The only solution to both questions that wouldn't feel contrived was magic - as in the magic of Avalon that sends you where you need to be. That way, Goliath could be brought to the locations of the clans in London, Guatemala, and Ishimura in a convincing fashion.

So I think that the Avalon World Tour was indeed a practical must for the series, to allow the crucial moment when the clan can learn, as Hudson put it in "The Gathering", "We're not alone. We're not the last."

Jonny writes...

Greg, I was reading you're welcome letter and I noticed a mistake in it...you said you were the creator and producer Gargoyles, but you misspelled producer, you have "produser". Just thought you should know.

Anonymous writes...

Are the fiction serieses on the http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/ website cannon to Gargoyles? If so, I have some more questions.

BLT writes...

Greg, I must commend you for sticking by your guns and continuing to answer these questions from devoted fans long after the demise of the series. It's very encouraging.

And with that, I'll give (what I think is) an easy question: if you could be asked any question about the Gargoyles series at all, what would that question be, and how would you answer it?

Dracolich writes...

One more thing, I visited the Coming Attractions website, which mentions the Gargoyles movie. It had a plot synopsis that was written when Devlin was in charge. In my opinion, I'm SOOO glad it was rejected. For all fans who are curious, check it out <http://www.corona.bc.ca/films/> , but be warned. It is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!!!

Blaise writes...

REVELATIONS

"Better late than never" as Elisa would say.

I liked this ep alot for several reasons. The first and foremost of course being Bluestone. He becomes the focus of an entire episode and finally meets the gargoyles. I kind of agreed with the "About time" sentiment the gargs had.

I'm not sure if, in my initial viewing, I believed Matt actually helped trap Goliath. Probably because I was so pleasantly surprised at hearing Efrem (sp?) Zimbalast Jr. as Mace. I think I may actually have decided to reserve judgement on Matt until the end of the ep (or at least I decided to do so when he went "narrating gumshoe" on us).

That's another thing I kind of like about this ep--the majority of it is told via Matt's voice-over and flashback. It just adds something to the story. And yeah, with his trenchcoat and character quirks, doing "gumshoe narration" seems to be natural for Matt.

On the subject of voice-overs, I didn't notice that Chavez had a different voice until I started looking at the credits at the end of the episodes. After that, I did notice the lighter sound, but still Ms. Gabrielli did a great job filling in for Ms. Ticotin.
And Mr. Asner's Jack Dane (with his wonderful use of the word "bum") proves a memorable character. I was quite happy when he showed up again later.

Anyway, back in the story, I also liked the attention to continuity. Matt's refernce to Elisa bringing in the TV in THE EDGE, the reappearance of Hacker, etc.
And like you, I loved the "enough food for a family of gorillas" and "dental plan" lines. I'm not sure why I like the former of the two so much, maybe because that just seems an interesting way of putting the gargoyles' eating habits in some perspective.

I was suitably impressed upon learning that Xanatos was only a "lower echalon" member of the Society. In fact, I was almost aghast. "How could this rich, powerful guy, whose been pretty much the main adversary and most successful bad guy in the series, be only in the LOWER ranks of the Illuminati?" So the Society got my attention pretty quickly here.

Can't say much about the car sequence, except that I can't help smiling every time the "three words" bit is played--it's just so perfect. Other than that, I like Elisa's quiet admission at the end.

The gargoyles' awakening in this ep does seem a bit more..."unique" than usual. For me it still feels like something in the animation, but Matt being new to it does add something.

The whole sequence at the hotel itself is real fun (hey I knew Goliath was going to get out well enough--I just wondered where Matt's fate would fall). Looking at your memo on this ep, I'm more than a little sorry that we didn't get to see the "false roof" room. That sounded great.

I don't know when, but somewhere in his talks with Mace, I kind of figured Matt was shaming him somehow. So I was prepared for a happy ending.
One of my favorite lines comes from Mace here when he talks about "wasting" Goliath: "It'll be a black mark. I'll be severely reprimanded. But if I allow Goliath to become the first prisoner to ever escape the Hotel Cabal...the flushing sound you hear will be me and my 75-year pension going down the drain."
I think the thing that really intrigues me about this line is the mention of Malone being punished for killing Goliath. I'm still dying to know the Illuminati's plans for the gargoyles.

Yeah, everytime I see Mace grab onto the elevator cables I have to wince.
And I suppose in some sadistic way, I like seeing Mace trapped in the Hotel--especially with that tic going in his eye as he completely loses his mind.

I thought Elisa's confession here was well done. I could understand her feelings about this and sympathize (though, of course, I can't say I'm special because I know the existance of sentient, non-human creatures).

And then the Hacker tag. I saw quite a few things coming in this episode, and this was NOT one of them. I didn't think Hacker would appear again after his spot at the beginning. But here he was, and as a member of the Illuminati. A very fun and intriguing revelation, IMHO.
Kind of a pity that we don't hear from the Illuminati again until THE JOURNEY.

THERE! I do believe I am finally caught up with your episode rambles (as of this writing).

Blaise writes...

OUTFOXED

Okay, finally back on track since mid-March.

First off, yes I'll agree this ep had a few problems, which you pretty much pointed out in your ramble--animation problems, especially in relation to Goliath's size, and the extra flashback are somewhat annoying. Still, this ep did have some nice stuff. And the sound wasn't too bad, I still heard, and loved, Goliath's "That. Stings."

Anyway, as soon as I heard "Cyberbiotics" I was interested in where this would be going. Hearing the name "Renard" I instantly guessed some connection with Fox. Her being his daughter did cross my mind, but I didn't rule out any other possible relation to him.
(If I may digress here; I knew that "renard" was another name for "fox" from its usage in a children's book I had had for years, THE TOMTEN AND THE FOX. Just felt like mentioning that.)

As for Vogel...when I first saw him I laughed. I thought he was a wonderful in-joke, one of the best I had seen in any series. I'm surprised people had a problem with him looking like Owen (as I said, I thought it was extremely amusing). Of course, at the time I first saw the ep, I was surprised he ended up having as big a part as he did. I thought he would just have had that one appearance at the beginning and then, that was it. But he turned out to be a very important (and interesting) character in this episode.

Renard intrigued me...mostly because of his unhealthy appearance and use of a high-tech wheel-chair. Despite this, he had a reasonably strong voice and managed to "talk-down" to Goliath (something Todd and I both find amusing about the interaction between the two).

Fox: I loved seeing her in the "red sweater and tight, black pants" ensemble. Her fight with Xanatos was fun as well--he knocks her down once, she gets back up, pins his arm behind his back, and then takes him down with a flip. Fun!
I never picked up that Xanatos was afraid when he mentioned "test results." Probably because as soon as I heard that I figured out that Fox was pregnant (I was finally starting to expect greater things from this series).

Back on the Air Fortress--I had missed METAMORPHOSIS the first time this aired, so I didn't know who this "antonsevarius" was that Renard mentioned. I didn't pay it much mind though (after all, Renard had immediately before named Owen as an ex-Cyberbiotics employee, and that really interested me). Basically, I forgot all about it when I finally did get a chance to see METAMORPHOSIS, so when I watched OUTFOXED again, and heard Renard mention "Anton Sevarius," it was like finding out the connection for the first time.

On a similar (but not quite) note, when Renard mentioned "My Anastasia. My Janine." Well, I guessed right away that Janine was Fox's real name. I don't know why...maybe that just seemed to fit her better to me than Anastasia (who I then figured to be her mother).

Vogel's betrayal and return to Renard's aid were, in my opinion, handled quite well. I found Vogel's actions believable, and had no problem with his change of heart.

Goliath gives Renard a great speech on the difference between the minds of living beings and automotons, and the two have one of my favorite exchanges in the series.
RENARD: "One thing I do know is your debt to me has been paid in full. A ship for a ship. We are even."
GOLIATH: "No. We are friends."
RENARD: [laugh] Yes. Friends.

And then the tag! I knew Fox was the "Hang-gliding ninja" and that she was Renard's daughter by now. AND that she was pregnant. But I still enjoyed this tag. I really liked the discussion between father and daughter, and the way the revelations were handled. A very fun ep.

Another digression: When I showed this ep to my mother, she instantly recognized the voices of both Peter Scolari, and Robert Culp. Anyway, I thought they did great jobs, and I still love the little nuances Culp managed to invest in Renard.

Hopefully, I'll catch up with your rambles by tomorrow.

matt writes...

hmmm, you just said:Greg responds...

I have three offices. One in Beverly Hills, my freelance office. One in Burbank, my Disney office. And one in my home.

I almost NEVER answer questions at home, because I almost never log on from there. I'd rather spend time with my wife and kids.

I answer at one of the other two offices whenever I have a free hour or so.

Occasionally, on vacation, if I have web access, I'll stay up late and answer after everyone else has gone to bed. Like now.

i find that very funny, cuz its 4:30 am here right now and i'm watching your answers come in! i guess i'm a true fan... or just really bored and unable to sleep...

anyway, so the Canadians are going to be kicking themselves for not getting G2198-517, huh? is that cuz Canadians are smarter than us Americans? (that goes out to Pyro X, long story...)
and number 74 is a noun, hmmmm...

ok:

74- adherants
74- companion

i think your clues made it harder to guess... hmmm, i'll be back...

matt writes...

i just watched "Enter Macbeth". i think this was the first of lots of sad ending-episodes... after this in "Reawakening" Coldstone is awakened and apparently dies, in "Metamorphosis" Derek is mutated and decieved by Xanatos, really sad ending, in "Legion" Coldstone is brought back but is destroyed by a virus, and on and on until "Hunters Moon" when the Clocktower is destroyed and the gargoyles are exposed. a very bittersweet series, really, i love it! anyway, back to my point, in "Enter Macbeth" you opened with Xanatos in prison in a dark cell eating bad prison food, while the gargs are living it up at the Eyrie, Broadway cooking in a well-equiped kitchen, Hudson watching the tube in his own tv room, Brooklyn and Lex playing cards in the big foyer, Goliath reading in the nice library, and the Grimorum safe in a high-tech glass display case. but by the end of the episode the clan is the ones living in the dark uncomfortable cell, the Clocktower, no more tv room, you have to break into the public library to read, the best you have for a kitchen is a hotplate, and the Grimorum is now stored in a closet behind a regular wooden door, and as for Xanatos, he's back home now, living the good life atop the worlds tallest building. now, my literature teacher in high school taught me to always see symbolism in everything and though i didn't see it before, this whole episode teems with it. i just wanted to congratulate you and the writers, this is great television, i think!

Phil writes...

I've been away for awhile (due to computer problems), and now I'm trying to catch up.

I read your list of characters ages (from about three weeks ago) and you gave Alex's tentative birthdate as 7/9. That's the same day as mine! Cool!

More later

VF writes...

Thought I'd take a stab at providing another viewer's reaction to an episode for you. So here are my observations about/reaction to "High Noon" -

The concept of there not being any scent in Coldstone's world was not jarring - it just seemed to be additional explanation of the rules that I was willing to go along with. It was already established in my mind that this was an alternate world that didn't necessarily have to follow the same rules of nature that my reality does. But I also thought, well, if it can be "real" enough to have heather growing in distant fields, why couldn't it also be artificially scented? But I assumed it was a technological limitation, not the unwillingness of a gargoyle soul to allow herself to smell.

I appreciated the continuity and progression of demonstrating Hudson and Broadway practicing their reading skills openly in front of their family, and I was genuinely pleased to see them doing so well. That I have reactions like this to a cartoon still amazes me, I have to confess. But those subtle yet significant touches provided further evidence to me that this show had some good writers and editors behind it.

Also, there was a lot of nice characterization showing Elisa's relationship with the rest of the clan - the exchange with Broadway about doing the right thing and claiming not to be a hero (when she so obviously is) and with Lex when she offers encouragement and shows confidence in him when she says he'll figure out the programming to fix Coldstone. Also, the part when Demona tells Macbeth her only consolation of enduring the pain of transformation is that he gets to suffer as well is priceless. It's deftly comical and tragically in character simultaneously. So lots of good storytelling and pacing of plot revelation going on here.

I did think it was a bit patronizing of Goliath to tell Elisa she has a whole city to protect and equally patronizing for her to order a full report later. I just sort of winced a bit at that exchange and thought "What was that all about?" I also had an adverse reaction to what I thought was Macbeth's really low blow in the library with the book reference, "And I know how to read them." For someone who had established such a strong code of honor, even among his worst enemies centuries earlier, that seemed more hurtful than any physical blow and really beneath him. So I'll generously attribute such uncouth behavior to his being under a spell, I guess.

In any episode of the series, I trust the reliability of Bronx's nose above all (i.e. in this case, his detection of Demona behind the wall of the closet). Yes, there are some constants in the gargoyle universe.

When the clan questions how two foes like Demona and Macbeth could be in collaboration, Hudson observes -- incorrectly but plausibly that -- "Maybe misery loves company." Ed Asner delivers that line with great finesse, hinting at a lot of complexity behind a seemingly simple statement. For one who appears to be an old-fashioned traditionalist, Hudson understands a lot more than other characters (and even viewers) may give him credit for.

Elisa had a very sweet and sincere line about not being able to leave the clock tower without knowing whether the clan was safe. She's a very dedicated friend. I was surprised that Demona would reveal her dual personality and transform in front of Elisa. I just thought that would be a trump card Demona wouldn't give up so easily, I guess. But I certainly thought it was completely in character for the scantily clad Dominique to strut her stuff in front of her rival - a pure sign of over-compensation for what is really subconscious insecurity and even a bit of self-loathing.

A line of Elisa's that really did not fit, in my opinion, was, "No more monsters - good or bad." I never, never would have believed, after "Awakenings" at least, that Elisa would've ever used that word in relation to her gargoyle friends. But I loved her new-found resolve with Morgan's help. Heroism shines through and adrenalin provides the needed strength; it's the great climax in the episode - the fight scene itself is simply the end result and is secondary to that moment.

More good lines follow: "I'm here to save him." "You fight like a rookie." (Elisa deserved some kind of one-up on Demona) and Macbeth's rye observation to a now Othello-controlled Coldstone that, "It seems your allegiance has shifted slightly" - here proving the concept that, when it comes to drama and comedic effect, more often than not, less is more. Incidentally, the error with the three Desdemonas' hair coloring didn't keep me from thinking of the Weird Sisters connection - I'm trained quite the opposite - any time I see three of anything in the series I'd think Weird Sisters, regardless of coloring.

And then there are the additional interesting revelations at the end, implying more to come in future episodes. But for me, that was almost just obligatory informational stuff needed to move the story along, it wasn't where the true strength of the episode lay.

For what it's worth. ...

matt writes...

a couple of weeks ago Jim R. asked about the picture of Brooklyn on the "Latest Responses" page, i recently pulled out my old gargoyle comics and found that that picture was taken from Issue 5 when Brooklyn and Lex were about to go "para-sailing", i guess he found that shirt wherever he found the skis and stuff. oh, and like i told Jim R. i think the thing on his shirt is *in Californian surfer accent* a "monster wave, dude!" hehehe...

Steven L. writes...

Hey,
I'm sorry this question has been asked before. I've been going through the archives for a while now (this'll be my first question) and I haven't come across any references to it, but you never know, right?
Anyway, I just saw a repeat of "Sentinel" last night, and it struck me as a very pilot-esque episode, like you'd set up in mind for a spin off (something like "Widget the World Watcher" meets "Transformers", only more grounded in reality). And yet, you seem to have no intention to spin it off. How come? Did you originally intend to, but decided against it as you felt it wasn't strong enough to carry a series, focusing instead on the other possible spin-offs? Or am I just making things up in my head?
Thanks.

Jim R. writes...

Doh! Wrong word in my last question: "conscience" is supposed to be "conscious" as in aware of one's surroundings. Sorry about that.

Blaise writes...

HIGH NOON

Came back to the rambles a bit later than I expected. Anyway....

First off, I felt the animation in this episode was some of the best in the series--fluid, characters had "solidness," and just overall very well done. My only real complaint is that sometimes the positions and movements of the characters seemed a bit too...BIG. Over-dramatic perhaps. The most obvious example is the very one you mentioned, Demona's "sex-pot poses." Those always throw me, because they just didn't really seem to fit the scene for me there. I suppose the idea put forward by several other fans--she was showing off against Elisa--is probable, but still.... On the other hand, I must admit that, yes, it is certainly...appealing to watch...the poses.
ANYWAY, still some pretty good animation. But while we're on the subject, Desdemona's skin-color seemed a bit lighter to me in this episode.

Yes, Michael Dorn does a great job contrasting the two personalities in his voice, doesn't he? Just the difference in between hearing him as Othello talking to Desdemona in cyberspace, and then as Coldstone/Iago calling Demona "Sister" is chilling. His voice work is one of the highlights of the episode IMHO.

I did not balk at the progress Hudson and Broadway made in their reading. For an animated television show, I thought this was a very nice show of development among the characters. Pity that even after reading it correctly when it really counted in THE SILVER FALCON, Broadway still has trouble reading the word "right." And perhaps, after a year of watching television, Hudson should have picked up the "hit the sack" phrase--he seemed to pick up "sitting ducks" a lot quicker than Broadway--but still, it was a fun touch.
I do kind of like the modesty Elisa displays in describing herself as no hero. I don't know why, but I do.

I didn't recognize Demona and Macbeth IMMEDIATELY. As soon as they were in the station and I managed to notice the beard on the "felon" I figured it was Macbeth. I didn't recognize Demona until she started talking (who couldn't recognize Marina Sirtis' voice as Demona?). What remained foremost on my mind was why these two were working together. I actually didn't wonder too much about the rest of the stuff--maybe it just didn't occur to me, or perhaps I figured all would be revealed in good time and just suspended my disbelief. I didn't think the two were capable of escaping the Weird Sisters, though. That is, unless the Sisters wanted them to.

As for Elisa...she REALLY should have gone to the doctor if she was out for that long. I admit, in light of this "enforced nap" I always had a problem swallowing Elisa's statement that she had only slept "a few hours in the last 40" (despite the fact that she certainly LOOKED like that statement was true).

I buy that Elisa found Demona familiar (you're right, there's that sort of connection between them).

The transformation sequence of Demona from human to gargoyle (and later from gargoyle to human) were EXCELLENT. I had been waiting to see her change since THE MIRROR and was a bit frustrated that it didn't occur anytime durning the five eps with her between then and now (y'see, I didn't know about the "tiers and tentpoles" back then). Thus, I was quite happy to see her working in human form here. Also, somehow I just KNEW the transformation was going to involve pain. I don't know why...maybe it's what I would have done with the spell if I had cast it on Demona. I can be cruel sometimes.

I'm afraid that the fact that we had three villains teaming up against the heroes didn't hit me as strongly as you would have liked. It's not just that the villains had such complexity, but also the fact that Macbeth and Demona usually are fighting each other. That kind of undercut some of the "WOW, THREE VILLAINS" factor. Also, the good guys still outnumbered the villains (even though the villains managed to outthink and incapacitate them)

I do love the interaction between Goliath and Elisa when the gargoyles head off to Macbeth's. I didn't find Goliath too smug, and I thought Elisa's "full report" remark was kind of fun and endearing.

The sequence at Macbeth's house was pretty cool as well. I also love it when Goliath taps the camera with his wing--I always was interested in seeing what other uses there were for that extra pair of appendages in addition to gliding.

"Just remember, one of them hates your guts." Lex has such a wonderfully blunt method of stating the situation. ;)
Of course Goliath responds with the equally fun "Then I'll just have to be very careful" after he's punched out the console.

Broadway: "Look at all these books!"
ZAP!
Macbeth: "And I know how to read them."
Nice exchange that succeeds in taking us back to LIGHTHOUSE. Also, it managed to impress my brother as being an excellent insult.

Bronx sniffs Demona behind the false wall, Brooklyn takes no notice. A repeat of the events that took place at the castle in CITY OF STONE. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I get the feeling Brooklyn's going to pay a bit more attention to Bronx's hunches after this.
BTW, I just love it when Bronx scratches at the door...and gouges the wood.

I figured Macbeth in the library was probably directly over Demona in the...whatever room it was, for the pain link to work.

Yeah, the villains pulled a smart one with Coldstone/Iago volunteering the added information. I didn't doubt that they would.

Elisa and Demona have their encounter, and then Elisa runs into Morgan. I was surprised to find that Keith David was Morgan's voice--it sounded so different from Goliath. But Morgan is a fun character with some nice insight.
I don't know why, but I like Elisa's mention that if she went to sleep and woke up there would be "no more monsters, good or bad."

Elisa goes to the castle, unarmed, and Macbeth goads Demona into facing Elisa the same way. This is one instance where it makes sense that the villain gives up the advantage of a weapon--just the honorable Macbeth playing on Demona's contempt for Elisa to ensure an honorable fight. And I like that Elisa holds her own well. I'm glad that she didn't just turn out as another "damsel in distress" but worked as a heroine in her own right.

Meanwhile, through all of this, Othello has been hiding away, against Desdemona's pleas. Personally, Desdemona strikes me as the more mature of the two of them, the wiser and more patient (she continues to stick by this guy no matter what--this is one heck of a woman...gargoyle, whatever).
Even though the hair-color was always off, I recognized the three Desdemonas as the Weird Sisters (c'mon, triplets talking nearly as one, in a situation concerning Demona and Macbeth; who else could it be?).

Othello makes the decision and the fight for control begins. You have to admire the sacrifice Othello and Des make for the sake of keeping Iago in cyberspace. I couldn't help feeling sorry that it had to be this way.

After the fight's over, and the chains are blasted, Coldstone takes his leave for the safety of others. A couple things I really like here--Coldstone refers to Elisa as "my lady" and bows, and when Coldstone shakes his head to defer staying until Goliath wakes, he only is able to close the biological eye. His robotic eye can't close. Pity that only shows up here.
And then the jogger comes in for some nice comic relief.

The final tag struck me--kind of like the first Xanatos tag I saw. Coldstone was a feint just to get the talismans--the three the Archmage said would grant "ultimate magical power!" There they were! Macbeth and Demona start to question the situation, and in come the Sisters. I knew they had been involved, but I didn't quite know what they wanted the talismans for. "The coming battle" eh? Well, that was one I couldn't wait to see.

Of course I had to wait a while for AVALON. :)

Anonymous writes...

This one's not really smart assed, but still amusing:
Question-
We definitely know that the Illuminati, and particularly Percival/Duval, would have been major antagonists for "Pendragon". Now that the "Arthurian survivors" contest is over, could you tell us now what other recurring antagonists you had planned for Arthur and Griff?

Greg responds...

Ask me later, but with more style.

Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...

Don't have time for a large ramble on "Outfoxed", so I'll just comment on a few key points.

Cyberbiotics> I was wondering what became of Cyberbiotics after "Awakening", so it was nice to see them again. And personalizing them in Renard, so we know who it was that got hurt by Goliath and everyone's actions.

I didn't think much of Vogel's resemblence to Owen. I thought they were cousins or something, or perhaps that one was a clone. He also made an interesting character, and I thought his change of heart was believable at the end.

Halcyon Renard. First of all, that is a great name. I like the sound of it. Yes, I did figure that he was Fox's father. I may have flunked out of French class that year, but I knew what Renard meant. He was a great character to, and Robert Culp did a great job doing his voice. Also he made a nice opposite to Xanatos.

Goliath was well-used in this episode. Also nice to show that he's far from perfect in his waiving off his responsibility in the destrcution of Fortress I.

Fox was great in this episode also. She became one of my favorites here. I was surprised by her pregnancy, but it seemed to be a natural step in where she and David were going. Seeing her beat David in their karate match was fun, but I'd like to see him win one some day, he lost to Owen to. Fox's attitude at the end with Renard was priceless, and nice to learn her birth-name. Janine was very appropriate.

Also, with Demona, Elisa, Angela, Fox etc, "Gargoyles" has a lot of great woman characters. That's one thing I really like about this show.

The theme/moral of integrity was a good one, and well handled. I understand how Renard feels when he says it's a daily struggle. I for one have been guilty of taking the easy way out and waiving off integrity. But I try to practice it as often as I can.

This was a very good episode. Not one of my favorites, but very good.

Also, don't ask me how, but I knew that David and Fox were going to have a son. I also knew that IF Goliath and Demona had an egg it was a daughter. Don't ask me how, I just knew.

Hopefully I'll have a longer Ramble/Review for "Revelations". I enjoy doing those.

Lady Dominique Macbeth writes...

Greg,
At the end of Metemorphosis, after Elisa learns her brother has been mutated, she sits in a corner of the clocktower crying. I completely understood this--a perfectly natural reaction-- but what I didnt understand is why no one tried to comfort her. I mean, she is close to the whole clan and ou said by this time Goliath already had definate feelings for her, so why didnt someone try to help her through something that could quite possibly be the hardest time of her life?

Thanks so much!!!!