Lexy (repost by Aris) writes...

And for my grand FANali:P

Comments on "Thrill of The Hunt" commentary:

I agree with you on how neat it was to see Xanatos actually sit his time out in prison rather then him escaping in the next episode. That holds true for the castle still NOT being the gargs to keep weather they kicked human hiney or not and later on how we kept Elisa on crutches AND gave her a permanent partner. Little details like that were always what made Gargoyles so realistic. Things didnt just Go away. Convinience is not a frase well reflected in the Gargoyles universe (IMO). I also loved this episode cuz..well LEX LEX LEX LEX..does that cover it? He was my favorite character from line One, "Not _afraid_ are you??" And I think that Thom's proformance was excellent, as you said, hats off to J.T. Again, as you pointed out already, it was really nice to see that type of scenario. Usually, the character in question thinks they are right and is wrong and learns the hard way. But in this case, Lex really _IS_ right and bad stuff still happens. We learn the lesson loud and clear at the end of the episode, but inbetween we are forced to really doubletake. Mabey Goliath was right at first, they should stick to Elisa and forget about it for the most part. I really liked that. Though..I kinda feel bad for poor Lex *LOL* It was his biggest moment in the show! Got to stand up to Goliath and give a great speech... poor guy pours his heart and sole into convincing his leader and his clan..and then gets his trust jerked around and his confidence kicked in the butt. *shakes head* ahh well. Now I wonder if he will ever go back to being as trusting with humans. Most likely not if you consider when they brough ColdStone to the Clock Tower. Lex leans in nearer to Goliath as they are gliding home and says something to the point of, "Are you sure we should trust him? He hasnt always been our friend. To invite him into our home, into our clan?". That shows right there that weather its a human or not..his attitude on trusting strangers has definatly changed. Though, the way these guys live, mabey its for the best *shrugs*.

I also got a kick out of your comment about how you were dissapointed with the animation. Your right, we were ALL spoiled with the magnificence that IS "Awakenings". It really was beautiful. But so were the other episodes. Some were drawn better then others, but when you get down to it Gargs had most of the best animation (if not all of it) out there at the time..maybe even now. (IMO) Well, thanks again for another great commentary..boy..episode seven is going to be interesting..Brooklyn seems to always be a hot topic.. *feels a twing of jelously for Lex* Not to say Brook isnt da garg..he _is_;)

Aris Katsaris writes...

Okay, I happen to have found in my hard disk the questions that had been lost in the crash... In the next few days I will try and repost as many of them as I can...

Mr. Thrugg (repost by Aris) writes...

I'll come out of the closet and admit that I'm a Trio fan, so this may be biased. I felt when Goliath, Angela, and Elisa went on their Avalon quest that the Trio back in Manhattan was very neglected(in terms of air time). This, I thought, was an obviously important time for them (even Hudson probably) as they are finally separated from Goliath. I thought the episode Kingdom wasn't enough to display the changes I felt in them after Goliath returned. What do you think?

Blaise writes...

I like your ramble on the Wind Ceremony. It sounds quite beautiful. It also feels extremely relevant to me because as of this writing it's been nearly 3 weeks since the death of my aunt. Her own ashes were scattered from a tackle-box into a river--she always loved fishing.

Probably a silly question, but would you have shown the Wind Ceremony in the series?

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the Wind Ceremony ramble, Greg. It struck me as another fine example of one of the best qualities of "Gargoyles" (in my opinion): the care that went into creating the gargoyles as an actual race with their own customs and way of life.

Blaise (repost by Aris) writes...

RE: Thrill of the Hunt

When I first saw this I was still getting used to the characters myself, so most of the impact this ep had on me came in later viewings.

What I did like in my first viewing was the Pack itself. They were very interesting antagonists to me for some reason. Possibly it was because they were human and managed to give the gargoyles a hard time there for a while. Also, the Xanatos Tag. I almost missed that the first time I watched the show. I thought it was over when the gargoyles went to sleep, so I went to get a drink or snack or something. Then I came back and there's Xanatos talking about how "the test was most...informative [smirk]". I was completely blown away by this (and gained even more respect for how dangerous Xanatos could be). I also remember liking the fact that Xanatos's ownership of the castle was addressed and not swept under the rug. It was refreashing to have previous events being referred to and having an effect on the present.

In later viewings, I found even more things to like. My favorite part in the whole episode is when Goliath and Lex have the advantage. After seeing the Pack mercilessly come after them, I got kind of a vindictive pleasure in having the gargoyles now acting as the silent stalkers. It's kind of like a horror movie almost--only this time you want the "monsters" to win. Come to think of it, I've always gotten a big kick whenever any of the gargoyles were scaring/beating the living tar out of their opponents. I never really thought about how they became "borderline cuddly" as the series progressed. Maybe we all just got familiar with them. But I always liked seeing them cut loose when they did.

As for the whole stunt show--so insanely corny I almost couldn't watch. Great send-up of the P--uh, you-know-whats.

I hadn't given much thought to Wolf's display of brain's or Fox's lapse in judgement until you mentioned them. Fox's is easy to forgive (for reasons you have already stated). Wolf--wow, it surprises me I never noticed it before.

Pointless note: I didn't expect the Pack to appear again after this. I didn't know there were any ideas to bring them back in at any later point, so when Jackal and Hyena showed up about 6 eps later I was surprised (and a bit delighted).

As for the animation, I never saw what the problem with it was. Even after the multiparter, I thought the animation here was still good (at least above the level of quality reached by your average animated show).

Oh, and I agree with you wholeheartedly about television.;-)

Warren writes...

Greg;
I have a five year old niece, and we happened to find Gargoyles on TV. She loved it, [She hadn't seen it for a time] Then out of the Blue she asked me if I could get a Gargoyle for her. I got here one of my stone statues and she replied, "no; a live one."
He he he. Don't I [And the rest of us] wish. She then asked where they come from. I said it's only on TV. She wanted one bad, I could tell. She asked me one more question...
"Where do they come from?"

I replied that it's a TV show. Someone though up the Idea, and another one made it happen. I told her you were part of the puzzel. [Michael and Franks names escapped me at the time] She said one last thing...

"This is da bestest show ever, and I love Gregy." I thought it was cute, even for a five-year-old. My own Daughter said almost the same thing, but she said you were the gratest man in the world. Go figure Kids. I am sure you can relate. :)

Keep up ALL the good work you do, and thanks for ALL you shakespearean insight.

Tam "Goliath" Graystone writes...

Hey! I'm new to this site, but I've loved Gargoyles for years; it's a great show.

I was reading through the newest Q's and found someone named Koba Burnett that had posted on the similarities between a character's name and his uncle's. I can point out a few myself:

1. My Shop teacher's name is Lex Greenewinger
2. I know a kid named Marc Travis Marshall
3. My aunt has a tame fox called Fae
4. My girlfriend's name is Elise
5. My last name is Graystone, and my brother's name is Matthew.

Isn't that cool?

Laura aka 'ad astra' writes...

About continuing the continuity (you asked for opinions, so here's mine)- I am a bit of a trekie.. treker.. whatever, and I believe that model might work. Certain major parts, eps, a movie or two, are not considered cannon. I realize that Trek has never been a model of consistency, but it does prove what a loyal fandom can accept, and that the word can be gotten out to them about it, (and much of it was pre-internet). I have never seen the animated Star Trek, but I heard it was declared 'non-cannon'. Supposedly they had some very good stories, (poor animation, but good stories) but had mixed in other sci-fi authors' universes that created too much potential confusion. Despite its noncannon status, elements from it- a character's name here, some family background there- worked their way into cannon. On the basis of that I think that you can safely ignore TGC [excepting The Journey]. That is what most fans want anyway. If an aspect or two crosses over into cannon it would be recognized as coming from what you had told them of your master plan, or perhaps even just a idea you thought was good. If you want to distinguish between the two, you can even put a blurb of official acknowledgement in the credits. Obviously TGC would not be shown along with the other eps which might ironically make them sought after- but fans are funny that way.

Laura aka 'ad astra' writes...

You had asked for people's opinions about your giving away so much. Here is mine. I too have conflicted feelings about reading of upcoming events. I miss out on the chance of surprise as it happens before my eyes. My first watching experience will be more akin to a second watching after a while. I will remember vaguely what will happen, but not exactly when and where. The surprise will be much less, but the story (as do most Gargoyle related events) will hold as a story [most obvious example- I still find Hunters Moon amazing even though I know of all the shocking events]. That said I think it is worth it to let tidbits fall, even if you end up giving away much more than you intended. It keeps people coming to the Ask Greg page, and in turn keeps up interest in the show. Instead of feeling like interest in a finished thing, it constantly reminds us that the stories are still coming. A little addendum; I like the information that sheds greater light on what we've already seen the best. I had feared that you had given most of that away, but then I came across totally new things My favorite so far being, "Good thing we weren't facing Queens."

koba burnett writes...

dear greg, my last name is burnett, and i have an uncle named owen. they're not at all a like, and we pronounce it "burnet" instead of "bur-nett", but it's a cool coincidence, since i like gargs so much. puck, and owen after him, are my fav char's.

Blaise writes...

REAWAKENING

I really do like this one--maybe just because I have an affinity for cyborgs. At any rate, I was quite glad that we got intro'd to a gargoyle who DID die in the massacre. Yeah, sure he was brought back, but mentally putting that scene in the multi-parter adds another dimension of tragedy to the massacre.
I can more than understand the problem with seeing Xanatos and Demona looking at a monitor one moment, then appearing in Times Square about 3 seconds later. At times like these, I do the only thing I can do: rationalize. I make-believe X and D were in some odd, high-tech, bus-like vehicle (mobile control unit, anyone). It's silly, but it works for me.
Another animation note--in addition to Hudson's sword--when Brooklyn tackles Demona they are below the top cables of the bridge, and before they hit the ground they fall onto and bounce off...the top cables of the bridge. Oh well, the confrontation is still too great for that little bit to ruin.
Oddly enough, I don't mind Elisa's little crack about the size of her car. I actually find it an amusing, sarcastic beat. And yeah, the scarf and gloves are nice.
And of course, there is an abundance of funny lines. In addition to the bit with "Bambi" and Xanatos' fulfillment of a life-long dream ("It's alive! ALIVE!!"), I just love Morgan's little response to Elisa's "There must be something we can do."
Morgan: "I don't think so. Unless you're packing a nuclear weapon." I can see why you keep bringing this guy back--he's a wonderful character.

Coldstone> I was glad Micheal Dorn did a voice on the show. I mean, just listen to the guy! Coldstone himself made for some memorable moments. I noticed that you guys didn't put the "underwater respirator" on him as the memo stipulated. What changed you guys' minds?

The look into Gargoyle culture here was also quite welcome. A nice touch that the gargoyles did not "officially" become crime-fighters until the end of the first season. Kind of more organic and unique than most series that just intro a group of non-human heroes and have them be crime-fighters more or less from day one. And the differences in opinion of the gargoylean proverb between the characters was a nice use of the ep's theme. Goliath's quandry here is quite compelling.

Finally, just one question dealing with the memo. You made mention of a Madame Serena. Who was she?

Blaise writes...

ENTER MACBETH

Despite the animation (which even I must admit is sub-par for what I expected of "Gargoyles") this is one of my favorite episodes to watch. When I saw this, I had long ago seen a (very amatuer) performance of the play (heavily abridged of course--it was done by elementary schoolers). So naturally, the title immediately grabbed my attention. When Macbeth first appeared and spoke, my first thought was, "Is that Sean Connery's voice?" But I was still hooked on this character. His style, his equipment, and the fact that he knew about the gargoyles. The revelation of his connection to Demona--hell, the admission that he named her--just really drew me deeper into the character. And his final fight with Goliath, and the escape from his coat...I was eager for him to return.
I also liked some of the comedy snuck into this ep. Brooklyn's little bit with the electric bars, or his and Lex's reactions when they hear Goliath's roars reverbrating throughout the castle. Just wonderful. And in later viewings, I noticed more of Xanatos' prison life. I mean, look at his cell! The things one can do with some money. There's also his wonderful line in the cafeteria, "Just like mom used to make. If mom was a prison cook." He calls his term there, "a learning experience." What exactly did he learn--not to get caught again?
Then there's Owen. It really blew me away how he handled Hudson and Broadway's attempt to take the Grimorum. Too bad he didn't pay any attention to the party on crutches.
On that note, I cannot tell you how glad I was that you guys put Elisa on crutches. I was getting quite use to the continuity of the series, and I had developed a taste for it. Maybe that's why I wasn't shocked that the gargoyles had to move out of the castle--common-sense (at least from the audience perspective) dictates that they HAD to leave. Not to mention that such an action was in keeping with the feeling I got from the series. Bottom line: It made sense.
I just didn't expect them to end up in a clocktower. Just love the juxtuposition of Xanatos' cheery home-coming with the gargoyles' somber-but-hopeful relocation.

THERE! I think I've recovered my lost ground (and then some).

Blaise writes...

DEADLY FORCE

I missed the first few minutes of this the first time it ran. I came in on Broadway in the movie theatre, but I was able to pick up what was going on. When I did see the first few minutes...I was already impressed with Owen because I had seen him in ENTER MACBETH. Regardless, I still think he ROCKS in how he handles the attack. The way he takes out one of those goons...coolness.
Bruno--didn't notice him the first few times. But when I did, I liked the touch.
And then the end of Act I. When I saw Broadway watching the movie, I figured out what the ep would deal with. When I saw Elisa leave her gun out, I figured that Broadway would play with it and that she would be hurt. I DID NOT expect her to be hurt to the point of unconciousness. I really appreciated the realism in this. Yeah, you couldn't let her die, but at least you had her flat-line.
Dracon and Glasses had some style--Dracon especially in his confrontation with Elisa.
I love Goliath and Broadway's respective rampages. You're right, Broadway indeed presents a fearsome force when angered. That fight at the end...excellent. I, too, notice that the gargoyles seem to have more edge in these early eps, and I like it. I've always enjoyed monstrous heroes of the night, so to speak.
Broadway's reaction to shooting Elisa, and his accepting responsibility for it really speak to me.
Goliath destroying the guns> I've always wondered if, at the back of his mind, Goliath got a small kick out of destroying Xanatos' property. I'm not saying it was his main intent, but maybe sort of a "bonus."
The family Maza and Capt. Chavez were also touches I liked, and I'm glad this wasn't their only appearance. A wonderful cast. And in later viewings, I did recognize Matt as Chavez's driver. Just another thing to smile about.
Yeah, I noticed Goliath's feelings for Elisa here, too. I especially love their last moment together, when Elisa calls his name and he strokes her hair saying, "Shh. Rest now. You are safe." So beautiful.

Blaise writes...

Repost of THRILL OF THE HUNT thoughts.

I also was still getting used to the characters in this episode, so I didn't notice a lot of the little things you mentioned until later viewings.
Now that you mention it, Wolf did seem to display a bit more cunning in this episode than usual. Fox taking the hostage I could definitely see as "floundering for a life preserver" if you will. In fact I did find the Pack quite appealing in this. Maybe because they were a unique type of enemy I didn't normally see animated action heroes fighting. I liked their style and the fact that they had fairly individual personalities. And for some reason, I think I found it fitting that in this episode Wolf was the last to fall. Actually, at this time I thought the Pack were just some one-shot villains (I missed the first part of the Tag, see below) and so was quite pleasantly surprised when Jackal and Hyena returned several eps later.
I was also glad that you guys didn't just sweep Xanatos going to prison under the rug, or the danger he posed to the gargoyles. And the stunt show and kids scenes are so wonderfully ironic.
I almost didn't see the Xanatos Tag the first time. After the gargoyles went to sleep, I think I went to get a drink or something, and then I came back and saw Xanatos in prison talking about how the "Test was most...informative" and giving his smirk. I was blown away to see he was behind it and still a menace even IN prison. The show gained even more respect in my eyes. And how about Owen, huh?
In later viewings, I took especial note of Owen's first few lines in the episode. A villain who "is not the sort to harbor a grudge"--you don't find many of those. Then there's when Goliath and Lex become the hunters to the Pack's prey. I just love how Hyena is taken out without even a sound. Then Dingo's swooped away, and we only see Goliath take out Jackal as shadows. Kind of like a horror movie, only the monsters are the good guys.
I hadn't noticed the change in POV before, but you're right, it is VERY effective. And in later viewings, I noticed Lexington made valid point. He just tried with the wrong people this time.

Todd Jensen writes...

Because my ramble-replies to "Temptation", "Deadly Force", and "Enter Macbeth" were all lost in the recent crash, I'm sending reconstructed versions in again. This one's for "Temptation".

One thing that I really like about this episode is Demona's development. She's in the wrong, but she's convincingly in the wrong, as she explains why humans will never accept gargoyles. Even Goliath has to admit at the end that what she told Brooklyn about humans is partly (but only partly) true. It's part of what makes her such an effective villain.

At the same time, Elisa shows at the end, by her loyalty to the clan, and her cleverness in finding a way of freeing Goliath from the spell, that not all humans are evil or anti-gargoyle, an important point. (That's why I don't really mind Elisa's means of freeing Goliath, even if it is, as you mentioned, borderline "cheating". The reward that came from showing that some humans could help gargoyles more than outweighed the problem in question). Merely showing Demona to be treacherous and scheming wouldn't be enough to counter her arguments.

And Brooklyn comes across very sympathetically, too. I liked your analysis of his behavior in this episode.

The Cloisters bit is one of my favorite parts, especially where Brooklyn talked about it being so much like "the world that we came from". (And no, I didn't think that that meant that the gargoyles were aliens; I understood that he was talking about medieval Scotland). That part clicked for me because of my (mentioned before) fondness for things relating to the Middle Ages.

And I was amused by your little bit about the motorcycle. Between that and the "garg-chopper" in "Her Brother's Keeper", it's pretty clear that the gargoyles' vehicles never seem to last very long. (Not that that's really surprising; as Goliath pointed out in "Protection", gargoyles supply their own transportation, which makes fancy motorcycles and aircraft for them pretty much redundant).

(I take it that the "Eye of the Storm" "suggested toy" that you eluded to was Goliath in his "Odinic" form?)

Blaise writes...

Hey Greg, sorry to hear about your troubles with the crash on the weekend of April 16th. It also seems that approximately 7 days of questions and replys to your rambles on THRILL OF THE HUNT, TEMPTATION, DEADLY FORCE, and ENTER MACBETH have also been lost.
That being said, I shall try to repost my own thoughts (as near as I can recreate them) on each of these in the next few days.
Here's hoping no more gets lost in the future.

Ambrosia writes...

Hi Greg!
Have you heard about the movie Frequency? It looked interesting to me because it presents the *other* theory of time-travel: what if you *could* change the past? From the previews, the theory doesn't seem to make any sense... it's the whole Back to the Future thing again: people disappearing from photos etc. (doesn't mean it doesn't look like a good movie though...)
It just seemed to reinforce the accuracy of the rules of the Phoenix Gate...

Lexy writes...

Hello Greg:)

I just read your lil ramble that mentioned how they pulled the switch-a-roo when airing Bonkers. I just thought I'd put down a comment or two on that since I loved watching the show. Now that I know Meranda (?sp?) was supposed to be the ONLY partner for Bonkers, I can see your point of view. That really rips that they took the original and just kinda stuck it in later as an after thought.<--(one word or two?? scratches head) But when the show was still airing new episodes I have to tell you, when they suddenly stuck in a new parter and we all said goodbye to Lucky I was pleasantly surprised. This wasn't because I didn't like Lucky, I just loved the idea that they had no problem with taking out a main character and just replacing him like nothing had happened. They sub'ed Meranda in..and life just went on. The episodes IMO were still good. I guess what I'm trying to say here is..when they took Lucky away and added Meranda, It never came off to me as "Oh geez, their getting lazy..so who's this blond chick??" It didn't _feel_ like I was getting some second hand idea shoved in my face. I considered both partners and the episodes they generated to be well done. I really can't say which I liked better. It wasn't like here comes this new character and things went down hill. Part of the reason I loved the switch. It just appealed to me seeing that a show had the guts to mess with MAIN characters like that and still come back at you with, IMO, good episodes. I believe that to be one of the main reasons Gargoyles was so awsome. Like life, things change. I dunno...just thought I'd mention that to you:) Seeya!!

Lexy

Abigail Thorne writes...

Okay, I've been reading everyone else's comments on "Awakening, Parts 1-5," so I finally decided to give it a go. When I first saw the commercials for "Gargoyles" way back in 1994, I had absolutely no idea what the show was supposed to be about. Neither did my brother. But hey, it was on the Disney Afternoon, which we both loved, so why not try it out? That's what we were thinking when we tuned in and watched Part 1.

My first impression? I couldn't tell whose side I was on. We were in this big battle with evil Vikings attacking on one side, and scary-but-cool-looking flying monsters on the other. As the fight went on, especially with Goliath and Demona kicking Viking ass, it was still hard to tell if the show was called "Gargoyles" because it was going to be about monsters terrorizing everybody in sight.

But I was curious to find out what was going on, and as the half-hour progressed it was easy to see that the Gargoyles were noble creatures who were being unfairly treated by the humans. The humans saw them as monsters, just like I initially had, when all they were doing was protecting them from harm. I really felt bad for the clan when I learned this, and I admired Goliath for his wisdom in dealing with the Princess (it's funny how he can be so hot-tempered about some things yet so patient about others, like waiting for acceptance from the humans).

The bottom line? By the time the episode was over, I was hooked. I cared about these characters, and I wanted to know what was going to happen to them. I thought the animation was great and the story was soooo cool, and I wanted more. I could already see that this show was going to be different from any other cartoon I had seen. It was like a sophisticated and engrossing novel, and I was annoyed that I couldn't just read on and find answers to my questions (Is that red-haired gargoyle really dead since she's in the opening theme? Are the gargoyles responsible for those explosions at that skyscraper? How'd they get there anyway?).

So thanks for the great opening. You got me, my brother, and my mom hooked from the very beginning, which is what good storytelling does. I watched the rest of the show religously, and I was never disappointed. I just hope we haven't seen the last of "Gargoyles," because there's so many stories left to tell in this novel of yours.

Todd Jensen writes...

My "Deadly Force" "reply-ramble".

Your ramble on this story was good. I honestly don't remember my response to first seeing it that well, beyond some shock at Elisa's fate at the end of Act I. I agree, however, that it was very effective drama, and a great story.

(About your admission that it was a bit dishonest to have Elisa survive but that you just weren't ready to have her die yet, I can certainly agree with you about the latter particularly. Truth to tell, after analyzing the situation for the clan at the time, I'd definitely say that if Elisa had died, the gargoyles would have been in serious trouble, given that she was the only human whom they were on friendly terms with at the time. The only other humans that they knew by that point were Xanatos and the Pack, who were their enemies - and Owen (though, as it turns out in Season Two, he's a borderline case as a human), who is too loyal to Xanatos to hide them from him. With Elisa dead, they'd have had no new home such as the clock tower ready when Xanatos drove them out of the castle, and things would have gotten almost hopeless; it would certainly have made for a very short series. So I don't blame you for having Elisa survive; she had to for the series' sake).

I agree that Broadway's well-handled in that one, and certainly does not come across as a mere "garbage disposal with wings" :) (The scene of him weeping on the building, and of him yelling at the mugger in Central Park, "What's this? A new kind of gun? A new way to kill people?" are ones that I especially found memorable). Nice job of highlighting him.

Two other little notes about this ep, both which I find rather amusing. One is the way that Owen pronounces "power ranges" when he's describing the stolen particle beam accelarators to Elisa and Chavez; a bit of a dig at the competition there, eh? The other is that the last two times that I watched this episode on tape, when Cagney meowed at Elisa, my own cat sat up at attention for a moment upon hearing it. (I always rather liked Cagney; I'm quite fond of cats, in fact).

Todd Jensen writes...

An additional little thought, inspired by your comparing Coldstone to the Frankenstein monster. As somebody who's read the original book by Mary Shelley, and quite liked it, I feel that while Coldstone certainly has a strong echo of the monster in him, as you've pointed out, I feel that Goliath does as well, although more in a contrast than in a similarity.

Like the monster (as portrayed by Mary Shelley in her book; alas for the way that Hollywood weakened the character by turning him into a mute, shuffling brute), Goliath is a noble being who appears threatening towards humans and is shunned and feared by so many humans whom he seeks to help. Also like the monster, Goliath is a thoughtful and eloquent being, and well-read with a taste for the classics (the Frankenstein monster reads Plutarch's Lives and Milton's "Paradise Lost", while Goliath reads Shakespeare and Dostoyevsky). The big difference is that the Frankenstein monster is all alone, with nobody to befriend him, and becomes embittered towards humanity thus, while Goliath has the clan and Elisa, which undoubtedly helps him. They're almost foils, in a sense. (Of course, Goliath also isn't an artificial creation, either, as the monster was). Just a little thought that had occurred to me.

Todd Jensen writes...

Ah, at last the "Re-Awakening" ramble. It was well worth the wait, too.

One thought that I've recently had on Coldstone: I wonder if any of us, living in the end of the 20th century, can fully comprehend the horror that his cybernetic condition must have held for him when he was first "re-awakened" by Xanatos and Demona in this episode. For any of us, waking up and discovering that we'd been turned into a cyborg would certainly be a horrifying enough experience. But Coldstone's experience is all the worse, at least, IMHO, because of one simple factor: cybernetics are completely beyond the world-view of anybody born (or hatched, in this case) and raised in the 10th century. He wouldn't know what they were, beyond just some strange form of magic. All that he can know is that something utterly alien, beyond his comprehension, has become part of him. I thought that the episode did a good job of displaying his horrified response to his transformation (especially the part where he uses that blaster built into his arm for the first time and is staring at it in shock and horror).

I'd also spotted some of the parallels with "Awakening", including the bit about how Goliath pronounced "detective". And I certainly agree with you that, if "Gargoyles" had ended there, "Re-Awakening" would have given it a great series finale. (Of course, you got to do another 52 episodes, all the way up to "Hunter's Moon", an even better "might-have-been" series finale, but that's another story).

I also liked your pointing out about how the gargoyles' thoughts on protection, and its evolution into protecting Manhattan, were handled in this story.

A couple of minor parts that I particularly like in this episode:

1. The way that Xanatos glares at Demona when she introduces him to Coldstone as her servant.

2. The "explosions in Bambi" bit.

3. And the very resurrection of Coldstone, which is one of my favorite "special-effects" sequences in "Gargoyles".

Blaise writes...

TEMPTATION (revisited)

Although this wasn't the episode that cemented Brooklyn as my favorite character, it was still one I found compelling. And your right, he is cool--especially in the Act I fight. Yeah, the fact that he wasn't in shadow and you could see his snout does detract from the scene somewhat, but then the bikers were wearing sunglasses at night. Come to think of it, a few of them didn't even seem to be wearing helmets....
Anyway, I'm glad the little touches you guys used in this ep--Demona's comments on the past centuries, the reference to the previous episode, the DEAD BODY. That last one especially. I would never have dreamed of seeing it even hinted at in an animated afternoon show. Marina Sirtis and Jeff Bennett really did a good job with their characters here.
Elisa's finger--oh, great. Now when I watch the scene again I'll look for it and probably not be able to see anything else again.
On the subject of animation, for both this and the last episode I liked them just fine. It was far better animation than what I was used to, that's for sure.
I never thought that Brooklyn's remark about "the world we came from" referred to an alien planet. Why do so many people insist that gargoyles be aliens?
I especially like Brooklyn in the final Act--his outrage against Demona, his cunning, and his lines!
"I was a FOOL to trust you!"
"You hold the book Demona, but *I* hold the spell!"
His acceptance of his fault in the scheme I find quite gallant.
As for how they "free" Goliath of the spell, yeah I guess it is a cheat. HOWEVER, I have not seen any other show defeat a "mind-control spell" in the same way. So kudos to you guys for originality at least.

Todd Jensen writes...

My ramble-reply on "Enter Macbeth".

Well, now we know the reason for the delay on this one. I really liked this episode, particularly on account of the name. I've always been quite fond of Shakespeare's "Macbeth", and so the title grabbed my attention at once. I don't know if I'd even suspected that Macbeth was *the* Macbeth (not until "City of Stone" came out), but I found his name very intriguing, and the character as well. Mac's one of my favorite characters in "Gargoyles", in fact. (And "Macbeth" certainly strikes me as the most appropriate Shakespeare play to get into "Gargoyles", in view of Goliath and his clan being Scottish).

I honestly don't recall how I responded to the gargoyles moving out of the castle, the first time that I saw it. Except that I was a bit sorry, since I liked Castle Wyvern. But at the same time, I understood that it was necessary to do so, and the clock tower made a good home for them.

(Truth to tell, I can understand, and sympathize with, Goliath's reluctance to leave the castle. For one thing, having moved twice in the last five years, I know that it's not an easy thing to just move to a new home; it's difficult to tear oneself away from a place that you've been living in for quite a while. Also, as Goliath pointed out, the castle was the only link that the clan had left (except for themselves) to the 10th century. Take away that, and they'd be feeling entirely stranded in the modern world. Plus, I've always liked castles, which gives me a further bias there).

(I very much liked Macbeth's home as well, with its very medieval atmosphere - particularly the suits of armor and swords - almost like the armory displays in the Tower of London - and thought it a bit of a pity that the place burnt down).

Aris Katsaris writes...

So, what's *your* guess at the real identity of Todd?

Guesses among the fandom vary: Merlin, Duval, you, your evil twin, God Allmighty, 42, a huge red dragon, a Vorlon (Babylon 5 reference btw), CrzyDemona's time-travelling son, the random typings of Gore's cat, and a figment of our imaginations, have all been suggested... :-)

Brandeewine writes...

A ramble about your pet peeve:
Greg, I would have to totally agree with you on that one. It seems to me, that many people grow up believing that it is ok, to put others down, to prove a point.

I grew up, believing (and still believe) that everyone is equal. I have seen REAL people hurt, by REAL comments that were intended to make others look good. (This is how rumors start as well, it seems [another taboo in my book]). Reputations are ruined and friends once had, are lost.

It just really seems to be a waste of time. I see in a lot of this in the Gargoyle chat rooms, where people constantly compare their art to another fan's (even I am guilty of this). It seems a shame to see that people do not give themselves or others the credit they truly deserve as individuals. What I mean is, if we all were not different, then this world would be one boring place.

So I guess I am just rambling, that instead of belittling others (and ourselves), we should look for the good and beautiful things in everything around us. Make life a positive experience rather than a negative one!

Ok, I hope that was organized enough to be understandable.... I would have thought about it before writing it, but I didn't want to wait, in case I ended up forgetting to respond. I guess it is something I have always felt strongly about. I am glad you feel the same.

Just a note: I think Erin and Ben are lucky to have a dad like you!

Blaise writes...

Hey Greg!

Read your ramble (or rant, as you may prefer) on comparisons. I myself noticed the same thing a while back. Some of the most fervent "Goliath-bashers" were ususally devotees of Demona or Brooklyn.
Truthfully, doing this kind of thing always did strike me as unfair to the characters of the show. I mean, you and everybody else wrote these characters like "people" and not as, say, selling points for action figures (which could put ME on a rant, but I digress...). The depth of the characters was part of the reason why I did not favor ANY of the characters during the first season--I liked them all more or less equally.
Regardless, I never in my life expected to hear you rant on the subject. (shudder) I wouldn't want you mad at me!

Demona Taina writes...

This is more of a comment than a ramble, but here you go. :)

I've always admired Goliath. Not only is he handsome, seven feet tall and very strong, but he's much more. He's loving, caring, and so romantic. The way he talks, the way he smiles (when he does) the way he looks at Elisa, the way he touches her hair. Like in the episode "Deadly Force." He almost fell off the castle when Owen told him the bad news. How he almost killed Dracon seeking for revenge.

He is so romantic, it's like he carefully looks for the perfect thing to say all the time. I just love him.

Not only is he loving and caring, but he is intelligent, in his own special way. He may not understand this new world in its entirety, but he does, and he's learning fast. That's one thing I've always admired about him, he's a fast-learner, even Thailog complimented him on that in "Sanctuary."

But that temper. Anything ticks him off. If he could just learn to control it, I think he'd be perfect. For example, "Enter Macbeth," when he found Elisa, Hudson and Broadway outside the castle, and when Elisa told him about "their new home." He was furious, he even screamed at her. "How dare you!?!" Broadway had to pitch in to knock some sense into him, but he still wouldn't listen. That was, until Hudson spoke. He respects Hudson, and that's obvious, but he still couldn't help but roar to the night. And how everyone gasped at that, wow. Great episode.

Back to Goliath. Umm, what else can I say about him? Oh, he can dance. :) And beautifully, may I add. "Eye of the Beholder" is one of my favorite episodes, the way they danced. The way he bowed to her, the way he twirled her. Wow. I've lost count of all the times I've hit the rewind button to watch that scene all over. :)

His sense of honor. He waited for Odin to get up to strike again. He even stopped Demona from dropping a human to a certain death. He lost Demona for struggling to do what was right. Wow.

His manners. He bowed to the Princess even if she had called him and his kind "beasts." It wasn't stern, it wasn't sarcasm, he really meant it. He left the Princess speechless with his manners.

His vocabulary. The only thing close to a curse he's ever said is "Jalapena," and that's not even a curse. He barely uses contractions, too. For example, he says "cannot" instead of "can't." He is so nice. I just love his way of speaking.

His skill, that's one thing I love of him. That's why the Pack wanted to hunt him, Lexington just came in as a bonus, they wanted the excersise, they wanted a thrill. And Goliath was just it. But he beat them, with the help of Lexington.

Oh, yeah, his looks. :) That's the first thing I noticed about him. After thoroughly analyzing the episodes, I realized that he's more than good looks. But back to it, he is handsome. There's no denying that. Elisa literally fell for him the first time she saw him. :) I still don't understand how his hair stands uop like that, but it still makes him very handsome.

His colors are great, too. I mean, he's not dark, nor too light. The colors just suit him. That lavender skin, with that brown hair blue and black wings. Wow. :)

The way he smiles, the way he walks, the way he speaks... it's just so unique. Not even Thailog's like him, and he's a clone. :)

I sound a like a huge fan, don't I? Well, I am, I've always been, and I will always be a huge fan. :)

BTW, I saw somewhere that Goliath had mutliple spikes coming from his arms, and also the tip of his tail ended like Ottello's before he was changed to the way he is now. but a ball or something. Anyway, who changed those features? And why? I think they made him very distinctive.

So, that's all for now. :P I think... there's much more I like about him. Anyway, thank you for your time!

-A devoted fan

Aaron writes...

Greg, no kudos for you! ;)

Seriously, the movie's called Dead Again, a beautiful piece of film noir starring Kenneth Branagh, Emma Thompson, Derek Jacoby, and an uncredited Robin Williams.

I'd recommend it highly.

Goliath Fan writes...

I'd like to quickly discuss my feelings about "Awakenings" First of all I didn't watch the show till around "Enter Macbeth" Yup, got a little behind. But I caught the rerun of the first episode and wow it blew me away. I love the animation for that one the most, at least at this momment. About Demona, I knew she wasn't dead, obviously since I started late watching, but I wanted to say even though I hadn't watched the series from the start, I think Demona wasn't shadowed enough in Xanatos' office. Kinda premature re-veiling( I think that's the right word...) of the character. (my 2 cents on that)Now I don't mind the whole " I am demona" I kind of felt "So what?" but what was great was the reddish smoke effect around her, that spiced it up nicely.

To share my personal favorite scenes would have to be Just watching Goliath was fun. He looked so cool. Keith David is just amazing. I couldn't imagine another voice for Goliath. He is a unique man (Mr. David, in my opinion) I also love the caped wings. It looks fantastic when Goliath quickly drapes his wings when he talks to the Princess and Magus about the eggs. Oooh cool! Also after Demona said "Wrong, you've lost it all," the back shot of him lifting his wings up fast to intimidate the guy on the airship before using his tail to smack him. And The whole Goliath Elisa scene where they talk while standing on the Empire state building was just priceless to me. Well my favorites are all but too endless so I'll end this here. Thanks for your time.

My quick question. Just out of curiousity,what is Officer Morgan's first name?

Cassandra writes...

Hi, Greg. Here's my own ramble of things I love about Gargoyles. I found the show my senior year of high school and was hooked. And when Fox moved the second season episodes to 6 a.m., my handy VCR timer was always set. My college roommate soon became a Gargoyles fan too. On to the elements.

The shocks and surprises: I loved the way the smaller story lines worked into the larger ones. I know you're a long ways from talking about "The Gathering" but I'm starting there, sorry. I saw/heard that Kate Mulgrew was doing both Anastasia and Titania's voice without much difference, so I knew they were one in the same. But my congratulating myself on figuring that out stopped and I almost fell out of my chair when Owen was revealed to be Puck. My best friend DID fall out of his chair when I was showing him and his wife the episode. Going back to season one, actual blood was shown when Broadway shot Elisa! In a Disney cartoon! And when I told people about this, they didn't believe me. Derek goes to work for Xanatos and is mutated for ignoring his sister's advice. Fox and Xanatos got married. I caught the "she's totally in love with him" in "Her Brother's Keeper", but I didn't expect them to get married--live together maybe.

Elisa: Thank you for creating such a great female character. Tough, smart, and still a beautiful woman. She could have de-evolved from "Awakenings" into the helpless female that the gargoyles had to rescue every week (and part of me worried that it could happen), but instead she ended up saving them as often as they saved her. And who else would have had the guts to wake King Arthur up? But she isn't a superhero. She has problems dealing with her mother and brother, she gets hurt, and she gets a little obsessive.

Intelligent bad guys: I suppose more accurately stated is bad guys with intelligent motivations. Demona has psychological hang-ups that culminate in her desire to wipe out the human race. Xanatos is just fun. How many series villians never let revenge get in their way? Plus, he had most of the best lines. My favorite: "This is my first stab at cliched villanry. How am I doing?" from "Cloud Fathers". Thailog seems to have this Oedipal need to displace Xanatos in the world.

Characters evolve: No one remained static. Demona's downward spiral was shown, but it has the potential to end by her desire to protect and love Angela. Xanatos and Fox fall in love and have a child, and apparantly learn what it means to have someone manipulate your life, something they're both a little guilty of. Macbeth realize that the gargoyles are as honorable as he is, and finds a new purpose to life. I love his debate with Margot in "The Journey". The Pack gets their upgrade. Cameo characters get stories and prove that the six degrees of seperation works in the gargoyle universe too.

References: Shakespeare's plays; Scottish history; Eygptian, Irish, Norse, Greek, African, Jewish, King Arthur mythologies, pop culture, World War II, Loch Ness, aliens, werewolves, and fae. I was waiting for vampires to show up. Okay, maybe not real vampires, but Servarius could make some. It was great to watch a show that used this stuff inside its own mythos and used it effectively.

That's just a few of the things that I loved about the show. Artwork was excellent and dialogue was wonderfully written and flawlessly performed. Here's my hope, wish, spell, prayer that GARGOYLES comes back to the air with you at the helm. And one quick question before I go find the episode rambles I've missed.

Question: Did you or do you plan on a flashback or a TimeDancer episode in which Will Shakespeare shows up as a character?

Cassandra writes...

Okay, I went back an read your rambles on the episodes (Awakenings - Her Brother's Keeper). You felt the moment when Demona revealed her name lacked punch. It did, for me at least, but not because of the scene itself. From the beginning of Awakenings, the gargoyles had a dangerous edge but Demona was the one with the least control over hers. The scene with the Trio decides to scare the peasants, I knew they were "just picking" (even though it was picking that could have gotten dangerously out of hand). But Demona acted like if she could have found an excuse to rip the throat out of Tom's mother, she would have. By Awakenings Part 5, it's chillingly apparant just how ruthless and demonic Demona has become. Besides, it's a great twist on Goliath's earlier name of affection/endearment, Angel of the Night. Angel=light, darkness=night, demon=fallen angel=darkness=night. The scene became one of those moments when everything felt RIGHT. Of course, what else could you name her? moment. The question was just how long ago was she given the name.

When I first saw the expression on Demona's face when she and Goliath reunited in 1994, I sat up. Yeah, she was glad to see Goliath but she was angry too. My thought first seeing it was "Poor Goliath, nothing good is going to come from this." Looking back now, knowing Demona's history, I have to ask did she read the Magus's version of events from the Grimorum? If the Magus recorded things fairly accurately, then she had to realize that Goliath chose suicide instead of trying to raise the eggs alone. If he had stayed with the eggs, she would have returned with a story Goliath would have swallowed and they could have raised the eggs together. She never would have created the Hunter, she never would have met Macbeth, she never would have made the deal with the Weird Sisters, she would have died centuries ago. And in that moment of reuniting, Demona blames Goliath for all of it. She buries it quickly cause she wants to give him a chance to realize why her way is the only way, but it still there. Wow, all that from one line of dialogue.

There's my feedback for the day. Caio.

Ed writes...

'REAWAKENING' comments.

At the time of writing, you haven't commented on this yet, but while I'm talking about the first season I ought to finish speaking about it.

And the big thing I remember about it is - I didn't like it.

Coldstone just doesn't appeal to me. I don't think any of his personalities are *that* fascinating, and the "it's alive!" line makes me wince all the time. Xanatos and Demona are just stock villains and don't show much of the individuality that is so evident in later episodes.

There are a few nice bits. The scene as Goliath is drowning. Goliath's vow to protect. The rounded section with that thief.

But all things considered, I wasn't that impressed.

It didn't matter; the first time I saw this, there was an advert for 'CITY OF STONE' on the next week with 2 back-to-back episodes for 2 weeks. In hindsight, this ruined two brilliant cliffhangers, but then I was gorging myself for CoS anyway from seeing teaser pictures of Demona blasting away stone humans.

Ed writes...

'HER BROTHER'S KEEPER' comments.

I've always loved 'DEADLY FORCE' but every time I watch this I like it more. Derek is just such a brilliant character! He's got a great stubborn attitude mixed with ambition and a wish to be supported. And Xanatos is so smooth!

"Yeah, use the force Lex!" was just one of those all-time classic lines that got me rolling around laughing. This being the case, I only noticed when watching it again how silly the helicopter repair thing seemed.

I'd already seen 'THE GATHERING PART ONE' (but annoyingly, not part 2!) when I saw this so the revelation that Fox loved Xanatos was hardly a big surprise to me. Still, Fox's self-assured scheming attitude always delights me. The prison scene that I always loved was in 'THRILL OF THE HUNT' - one of those eyebrow raising moments when you realise that this is a bit different from 'Ducktales' and 'Turtles'.

And the snow is breathtaking. I also like the ambiguity of the ending. It's magical. Fantastic stuff.

Ed writes...

'ENTER MACBETH' comments

This is a glorious episode. I suppose I can see why you don't like the animation, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as you make out. Of course, I didn't see it before you cut it.

This is one of the episodes that I remember my first reactions to quite well. Firstly, I had no idea that this was the same Macbeth that Shakespeare wrote about. I thought it was some mercenary that had the name because it sounded cool or something. It was only when 'CITY OF STONE' aired that I realised that he was the same as the king.

Kenner should have had a field day finding ways to build a Macbeth mansion with all those traps. The Hall of Mirrors was especially cool.

I never really considered the implications of Macbeth's claim that he named Demona. I remember being quite startled, but it still never made me think in the slightest that he was the Shakespearian Macbeth - he could have given her that name in the 1980s.

I love the Goliath and Elisa arguments here. Rather than have the fact that they really love each other be painted all over the shop, and have the two get on like a house on fire, this story has them arguing. It's not the only one. It's just gorgeous.

I also liked the credits at the beginning. It might be a small touch, but it always seemed so much more 'grown-up' than having them hidden at the end. Just like the "previously on Gargoyles..." section, it was one of those little touches that said: "look! This is different!"

A lovely episode.

Ed writes...

'DEADLY FORCE' comments

This is my favourite episode of the first season. It's thoroughly gorgeous.

One, I like Dracon. Glasses is nifty too.
Two, I like Elisa. The real human Elisa that is, not just the side that larks around with gargoyles all night.
Three, I like Broadway. I didn't do that much originally, but I certainly do now.

But there's so much more that's cool here. Elisa in the hospital, the subtle introduction of her family, the gun moral...

I actually never noticed - or at least don't remember - the blood. I might have been aware that it was there, but I can remember the scene quite clearly and don't really remember the blood. That wasn't what hit me. There was a brilliant impact from seeing her 'dead'.

It was lovely to see Matt in there too. Great stuff.

Ed writes...

'THRILL OF THE HUNT' comments.

Hi there, Greg. I'll be a bit behind everyone else with these comments I'm afraid. Should I put episode comments in separate posts if I talk about separate episodes? I'll do it just to be on the safe side.

Anyway, I like this episode a lot. It gives us the best view of Lexington's personality of the 66 (or indeed, 78), and I like the Pack here. Actually, the Pack appeal to me more here than in most of their subsequent outings. The predator/prey irony is very appealing, but the 'Evil Ninjas' amused me too. I wonder what happened to all those guys?

I never understood why this was listed under your list of dodgy animation anyway, really. Goliath was especially well-drawn throughout.

Loved Billy and Susan. The injustice is immensely frustrating to me, which of course is what makes it so great.

Incidentally, the first scene was nifty too. I'm not sure what about it appeals to me so much; maybe the great drawing, maybe the 'calm before the storm' tone, or maybe it's just because it's got Owen looking so... Owen. But it always sticks in my mind.

Pity that the last time I watched it (about a year ago), I pressed the wrong button after I wound it back and taped over this and most of 'TEMPTATION' before I realise what I'd done. Humbug. (It also took me forever to tape in the first place; Disney Channel UK ran through the whole series but played 'LONG WAY TO MORNING' twice in the proper spot and instead of 'THRILL OF THE HUNT'. Seems like it's one of those doomed episodes for me... not as doomed as 'MONSTERS' which I tried three times and had a disaster each time, but...

Demona Taina writes...

Me again!

I just realized that I had to thank you for those ramblings. :) I mean, I never thought of those episodes that way before, and now that you're explaining them, it all makes sense now. :) Thank you again, Greg, not only did you make one of the best shows there has ever been, but you've opened our minds. I mean, you've inspired us. Some fans have become great artists, some great writers, and some you've simply changed their lives! Like me! I'm a completely different person! And all because of the defenders of the night! I'll thank you always, I'm sure other fans will thank you too. :)

I'm looking forward to the rest of the ramblings. :) Thank you!

Jackal's Love writes...

Her Brother's Keeper:

This is one of the episodes that I watch the tape of frequently. Probably because it has some focus on Jackal and Hyena interacting, and such beautiful animation. Little details of the J&H converasation at the diamond exchange stood out to me, like the way Hyena kicks Jackal, then smiles at him, and the contrast between the two. "What's to keep us from just grabbing it and shooting our way free?" "Style, dear sister, style."

I always noticed that those two seemed to have a big thing for knives. Always whipping them at someone. Although I am curious about where Hyena had been hiding the knife at the Exchange. Her dress didn't seem very ideal for concealing weaponry.

Nichelle Nichols did the diamond exchange saleslady's voice. Eep. Forget the villains, that woman was terrifying :-)

I also noticed the irony about Jackal & Hyena, the bad guys of the episode, getting along better than the good guys are. They may be nut cases, but at least they're compatible. It seems that they have more fun with their fighting than anything else.

"Any landing you can walk away from." Doesn't Xanatos say also say that in 'City of Stone'? It's one of the quotes from Gargoyles that I remebered even after I hadn't seen the show for four years, along with "What's the matter, never seen a cybernetic jackal before?" and "I trust you about as far as I can throw you."

Hyena's smile at the end is a really intruiging moment. I love the animation there. I had it as my computer background for months, the bonus being that it scared my friends.

Anyway, thank you for your time.

Ed writes...

'THE EDGE' comments.

Not a big favourite. The animation is gorgeous, and the ending is sublime. But the Steel Clan echoed the Foot Clan a bit much for my tastes. I can't remember my first viewing that well, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't expect the red robot to be Xanatos. (Although I should have, because I'd seen 'FUTURE TENSE' a few months previously).

In hindsight, there are several nice touches and the writing is delightful. But it wasn't one of those episodes where the difference between normal action cartoons and 'Gargoyles' leap out and grab you.

I guess I just never liked the Steel Clan.

Blaise writes...

HER BROTHER'S KEEPER

Boy, I'm dense. I hadn't realized just how far the "siblings" idea went (Jackal and Hyena were right out of my mind--I just thought they were good villains).
Speaking of the terrible twins, they got some pretty good dialogue throughout, but especially at the beginning. I like how Mr. Reaves managed to put in some exposition on the other Pack members and make it sound organic. BTW, Hyena thinks Dingo knows how to have a "good time," eh? If what she said was true, and considering her own personality, Dingo changed A LOT by the end of the series. And I always have to say "OW" when Hyena digs her heel into Jackal's shin.
I kind of figured the gargoyles were throwing the twins out of the 'copter with the intent to kill. I pretty much KNEW you guys would slap parachutes on them, but I didn't expect the gargoyles themselves to be that "PC". Like I said, I always liked that edge.
Going to the trio--some of the best lines in the series there, IMHO. And most of them Brooklyn's! "Famous last words," "Yeah, use the Force, Lex," and "You and what Starfleet" always make me smile. I also like the look on their faces when Goliath yells at the Maza siblings at the end. A particularly memorable moment that. Excellent dialogue (Mr. Reaves always seems to have a gift for that).
Now I get to the main part of the ep. Just as the Trio and Hudson (who doesn't have a single line in this ep, hmmm) had their own ep to shine, this one belonged to Elisa. I liked the struggle she had with her brother over Xanatos. I began to notice the irony of each sibling's discussion with their parents in later viewings, but the fact that both siblings were wrong did strike me. As for that ending...I was sure he was going to play the tape and listen to it, but I did like it that the ending was ambiguous as to that event. The snow was a nice touch, too (and it actually made a crunching sound when they walked on it--this was the first animated show I saw where that happened!).
And one must admire Xanatos and his chutzpa. Love his ego in this one. Then there's Fox. When I saw her final remark, with the camera position and lighting, I knew that she loved him, or was at the very least infatuated. I didn't know if the feeling was mutual, however.
BTW, the beverage that Peter Maza was drinking...was it alcoholic?

I do enjoy watching this ep.

Todd Jensen writes...

One additional response to your "Her Brother's Keeper" ramble. You mentioned that the original idea for Catscan/Talon was to make him a scientist in Xanatos's employ who got mutated, but then realized that it should be Derek instead. I felt that the role going to Derek was a very good idea. If it had been a more or less unconnected scientist, it could still have made a good story, but making the victim Derek strengthened it. Here, it isn't just anybody getting mutated, but Elisa's own brother. Not only does that tie the victim in all the better with the main characters, but it also brought in those great scenes at the end of "Metamorphosis" where Elisa, after discovering who Talon really is, proceeds to let Xanatos have it, and then weeps back at the clock tower. I'd say that the Gargoyles Universe intuition was batting a thousand on that one.

Ed writes...

'LONG WAY TO MORNING' comments.

Just like 'TEMPTATION', I loved this first time around. It had Demona, it had the Dark Ages, it had a thrilling chase scene, loads of laser blasting, a lot of atmospheric running water (I love it when running water is used alongside high drama - I don't know why, but it always appeals to me). It's fraught, has a great graveyard scene and lots of cool flashbacks. It shows us Goliath out of action.

But as I go back to it the thing that annoys me most, is Demona. She grates so much! Her dialogue seems to be frustratingly similar throughout.

Also, I felt that the Archmage was weak here. He lacked the conviction and menace that made him such an effective villain in later episodes. Which is probably why I forgot all about him, and by 'VOWS' (which I saw months later first time around, because of the order GMTV showed it) my memory had fogged sufficiently so that I got him confused with the Magus.

Ed writes...

'TEMPTATION' comments.

Hi, Greg.

When I saw this the first time on GMTV, I was blown away. At least, for months after this was the episode I remembered. It had Brooklyn (whose name I took about 20 episodes to memorise for some reason), and more importantly - it had Demona. I loved Demona here, and I was delighted at the theme of betrayal that flows through here. There's a great sense of hurt. It's really gorgeous.

But watching it the second time and times after, I have to say that I was less impressed. Demona seems to have a stock of classic villainess threats that she doesn't really grow out of in this season. They were great first time, but I'd seen 'LONG WAY TO MORNING' just the episode previously (see my 'THRILL OF THE HUNT' comment) and heard very similar dialogue.

Also, I can't help feeling that the ending was a bit of a con. It was very clever, but the idea that all through CITY OF STONE, HUNTER'S MOON and whatever comes after Goliath is still under a spell from episode 7 (even one that is inactive) doesn't appeal to me much.

Aaron writes...

Long Way to Morning.

I love this episode. It's definately one of my top ten. Quite well done overall, but I love it for one reason above the others:

This is the last time we will see Demona like this. No, it's hardly the last time we'll see her being evil, but after City of Stone, (And Vows, to a lesser extent) our perception of Demona changes. Post-COS, Demona's a tortured sociopath who's spent the last 900 years living a painful, screwed-up life. Even if most of that was her own doing, there's still some sympathy factor there. (Of course, this is all just my opinion, others may think differently)

In Long Way to Morning Demona's just *evil*. From her casual "Ciao" to the (she thinks) dying Elisa to... almost everything she says to Hudson, she's just pure and unadulterated badness.

The fight in the graveyard is quite cool, especially the sequence where Demona's wings unfold from behind the angel statue, (complete with sinister flash of lightning) Hudson swings his sword, and it looks like nothing happened... until the statue falls apart, bisected diagonally.

And of course, there's the irony of Hudson's last words to Demona, about patience coming with age, which only shows up the second time through. Demona, of course, being probably nine or ten times older then Hudson, but has still never learned to think things through calmly, rather then charging off in anger.

Lexy writes...

Hey Greg,

Episode 12. Ahh, Episode 12. I guess I could ramble on about the excellent animation and such. But I'll answer your Q's;)

Derek working for Xanatos: You know..it really didn't throw me for a loop. Don't get me wrong, this isn't because you guys were being predictable. Certainly not. It was because after 11 episodes of Gargoyles already I realized that this wasn't your joe-blow plot line. The kind I can show up halfway and watch five min's and guess with dead near perfect accuracy what is going to happen. No, this was GARGOYLES we were talking about. I just got into the habit of NOT guessing at anything. That is probably the wussy no-brainer way out..infact it _is_ the no-brainer way out. But for the most part it is true. I wasn't shocked, though I was throughly (sp?) entertained. It was awsome to, again, see you guys doing unconventional things with lead characters. It's just such a breath of fresh air to see a main or basic character get pulled into the muk. I know that is probably a little crule on my part. But just because you are nice most of the time, and important, dosn't give you a free pass out of all the crud that can go wrong in life.

The Irony: Like you said..it was _everywhere_ in this episode. Just like Episode 6, it made it sparkle for me. It wasn't black and white. There wasn't one side that was dead wrong and one side that had it correct. It's cool to see characters fighting for things that arn't per say wrong..they just don't work in that perticular situation. Like you said, stuff happens.

Chucking the twins off the Chopper: Well, I guess it never really bothered me since, as you already pointed out, they had parachutes. So all is well right? But I suppose I never _really_ thought about it enough. As you had pointed out in your post, _did_ the trio _know_ they had those parachutes? Your answer is very statisfying (sp:P) to me. Just like Goliath and his whole "We defeated him, the castle is ours now" complex, it shows that they still have a lot of throw backs to their Wyvern years. Not that they just _adapt_ to this century and become modern day crime busters. Again, its just a nice touch.

Xanatos' bravado: I think you just about rounded it up for him as usual. Him telling Fox to spill the beans freely for Elisa didn't _shock_ me per-say, but it did make me shake my head and grin at that guys audacity. I mean.._really_.

David and Fox sitting in a Tree: In this episode it's pretty clear that something is really up with these two. I don't think I _really_ caught it with the force that I did untill this episode. But when I did, I didn't have any after thoughts like "Hmm wonder how long this will last." They are just _perfect_ for eachother.

Eating Jokes: Ya..it did get strung out. But it wasnt like "Oh geez, this again?" I mean, they are siblings..and sibs will be sibs. I didnt expect any of them to get really original in their come backs. Besides..it was nice to just sorta ween viewers off of the whole eating machine lable that got stuck on Broadway in earlier episodes. If he had just _stopped_ being somewhat ..well a big eater will say, or the subject was just dropped like a stone I would have been kinda thrown.

Well, I suppose thats pretty much all I got. Another contest ha? Coolies. Though I dont _think_ I'll enter.

Oh and by the way Greg. I'm sure you probably already know this. But if you gave one of us a box of used paperclips off your desk, most fans would be like "OH MY GOSH!! I have _GREGS'_ PAPERCLIPS!!! And he actually USED THEM!!!"

*shrugs* I know..but its probably true:) Were kinda insane that way.

Todd Jensen writes...

An addendum to my last post. I'm really enjoying these "episode ramblings" of yours, and thought that I'd thank you for posting them. Until/unless you get to write a book about "The Making of 'Gargoyles'" (for which, alas, there doesn't seem to be a market at present - I fear that Gargoyles fandom isn't big enough yet to offer enough sales to make a publisher happy), this counts as the next best thing.

Todd Jensen writes...

A sort of "return-ramble" about "Her Brother's Keeper". One thing that I will admit is that the first time around that I saw it, I actually believed that Elisa's tape recording of her conversation with Fox would change Derek's mind about remaining in Xanatos's employment. Of course, we know from "Metamorphosis" that it didn't happen. (The one thing that we probably never will know was whether Derek never listened to the recorder or whether he did but remained unconvinced even after listening to Fox's words on it. Admittedly, after the way that Elisa had been pushing him to leave Xanatos's service, I suppose that it's not too surprising that even the recording wouldn't have changed Derek's mind).

I agree with your analysis of the behavior of the Mazas over Derek's situation. (And I've got to add that I consider Elisa's meeting with Derek in the locker room a BIG mistake on her part; it obviously didn't do her cause any good. Not to mention that it wasn't too much fun for a lot of her male co-workers, either :)

I also enjoyed your analysis (which I thought was also very accurate) of the trio in this episode, and of Goliath. And I agree that the snow at the end of the story is a great touch in conveying mood.

I'd also noticed about why Jackal and Hyena would still be at liberty in this episode (and Dingo, too); nobody had seen them chasing after the gargoyles and their actions hadn't endangered any humans, so only Fox and Wolf would be facing charges and locked away in prison. (Of course, by the end of the ep, it's a whole different story for Jackal and Hyena).

Blaise writes...

LONG WAY TO MORNING

A little late, I know, but we all get bogged down in RL every now and then.
I liked the Archmage. Now this is mostly because I just like magic-using characters no matter how cliched (just an odd affinity) and my like for this character increased when (on the second viewing) I finally recognized his voice.
I also like the exposure Hudson gets in this episode, and was thrilled to see that the ep showed how his eye was damaged. As far as I know, usually when an animated character is introduced with a damaged/missing eye it is not shown how that happened. I was glad that "Gargoyles" actually took the time to do that.
I must admit, although I noticed Malcolm's casual use of the gargoyles as a boogeyman to scare Katharine during my first viewing of the episode, it was in the later viewings that their long-term effects really started hitting me. Apparently, Malcolm can be quite thoughtless at times. I wonder if he lived long enough to see Katharine's growing dislike for gargoyles.
The fight with Demona, while for the most part well staged, was not quite as interest grabbing for me (always liked the characters more). In fact it's mostly in how Hudson handles that fight and views it that really grabs interest. There are a few moments in the fight that stretch credibility (Hudson cuts through a statue but Demona's gun remains [apparently] in one piece, etc.) however, Demona using the gun as a blunt instrument was not one of them. To me, she just seemed the type that would do that sort of thing.
I never really thought about the "hidden meaning" of the last exchange--I guess because I already took it for granted that the gargs were not fight-mongers. But all the same, I love the wry humor in it.