Blaise writes...

LIGHTHOUSE IN THE SEA OF TIME

This is a good ep with a message that had the potential to be quite preachy. I'm glad you guys avoided that for the most part (I'll get to that later).
Yeah, Macbeth as the villain was pretty much tipped off at the beginning. It indeed would have been better if we had suspected Xanatos as the villain all through Act I. At least we got some dramatic irony out of the situation.
Anyway, Macbeth is always a good villain--and you just can't beat his first appearance here. The "Macbeth Theme" comes up in the background (and I love it, too), the lightening flashes, and Macbeth walks towards the screen. You'd have to go a long way to beat that. And I did associate that "Electricity Gun" (as I called it) with Macbeth (he and his flunkies were the only one's who used it).
Actually, Banquo and Fleance were pretty good too, as far as henchmen go. They had their own personalities and B.J. Ward and Frank Welker did good work with their voices. And yes, I have to smile when B.J. Ward talks to herself in the ep.

Animation-wise, I don't suppose it was too bad. *I* thought Elisa looked cute with the red cap. Though how she managed to yank it off without pulling out her hair (since she put it through the hole in the back) is beyond me.
I noticed that Goliath visited the Eyrie building and confronted Owen again (only this time with Brooklyn and Lex in tow), but it works for me.

Robbins...a great addition. Paul Winfield (that is his name, right?) did a great job on his voice (you were going to shoot for Ray Charles?), and his lines were very well written. I find his exchange with Hudson about the phonebook and his final monologue to be some of the best lines in the series.

The opening prologue with the archeologists (after looking at the credits for so long, I knew they were named after your writers and staff) serves it's purpose. The lyre's role is fairly easily deduced, and the full import of the spell on the chest becomes apparent in later viewings. But I agree it would have played better as you described it.
The Scrolls themselves presented a wonderful "Left-turn in the last Act" so to speak. I was quite surprised myself that they turned out to be a diary, and I have to agree that Merlin's Journal would indeed be priceless. I was pleased at the revelation.
I did think along with everyone else that Macbeth had sealed the Scrolls himself. Maybe knowing so little about Macbeth would make us latch onto anything that could even be remotely considered a clue. In later viewings I understood it, though.

On the moral itself...like I said, I felt it was very well done. I didn't find Goliath's mentioning the "library downstairs [being] full of books about [Merlin]" to sound like those Public Service announcements at all. Maybe it's because I don't pay any attention to them or because it just sounded like something Goliath would say (I mean, he loves reading). And I love how Hudson's illiteracy is revealed and handled. I felt it was quite moving. And Macbeth's speech about Arthur was good too. However, Broadway's growth is where I enter into a more grey area. I felt it worked quite well for the most part, especially his line "When your life is this exciting, who needs books?". However, his last speech...I suppose it isn't so bad, but it did seem a little thick with his expression "They take you there". It is true, and probably the best thing to say, but I just can't get into it. Maybe I'm just too used to reading to be able to fully empathize with Broadway's sense of wonderment.

Still, an ep I enjoy wathing. I just wonder how Broadway was able to rip open the hull of the harrier without any noise.

Todd Jensen writes...

Just read your ramble on "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", and here are my thoughts on that episode.

It will come as no surprise to those who know me well that this is one of my favorite episodes in "Gargoyles", and I don't even need to say why this is. :) In fact, one of the things that I really like about it is the way that it handled Merlin and the Arthurian legend. As I've mentioned before, lots of animated series do an Arthurian episode at some point, and particularly do so by including Merlin somewhere in it. But "Gargoyles" handled Merlin as more than just "some stupid magician", to quote Broadway. It focused on him, not as just a medieval wizard, but as King Arthur's mentor figure who guided him in the creation of Camelot. This particularly made itself plain not just in Macbeth's speech, but even in the fact that the precise part of the Scrolls that we hear Macbeth read deals with Merlin first meeting the young Arthur, presumably to take him on as his pupil. (And, given that this episode did include some teaching functions in the process, as in teaching Hudson and Broadway that reading is a worthwhile pursuit, I found that appropriate).

Indeed, that was precisely what I liked about "Gargoyles" handling Arthurian legend (and legends in general); it did so in a very intelligent and literate fashion, getting into "What is the significance of this story for us? Why does it still endure in our hearts after all these years?" This, combined with your comments here on Arthur and Co., make me certainly hope that you can either get to do "Pendragon" some day, or if Disney never agrees to that, create some other Arthurian series (as you've mentioned having hopes of doing).

One amusing side-note about this episode: I'd earlier read an article about what was in store for Season Two of "Gargoyles" in a sci-fi magazine that mentioned that time travel would be a part of the season. So when I saw the title, I got the notion from the "Time" part of it that this would be the episode involving it, and that the Scrolls of Merlin would be the means for it. Turns out that I was wrong and that that element wouldn't show up until "Vows" - but I wasn't disappointed.

(I might add that I was certainly not disappointed by the revelation of the Scrolls' true nature, unlike Macbeth - if anything, that made them more exciting to me. An eyewitness account of Arthur's times, written by Merlin himself! Now that's a real treasure! Hudson and Broadway were right to urge Goliath not to burn the Scrolls! And I certainly can't help but imagine the boon that they'd be to Arthurian scholarship).

Macbeth's speech on Arthur and Merlin was not only a very beautiful one, but also helped illustrate his character a bit more and the fact that he had heroic qualities under his villain role. After all, he stressed with such admiration Arthur's ruling "with justice and compassion", something that only a man with some nobility in him could find a positive interest in. Even though he engaged in theft and planning to use Broadway for a guinea-pig, he still came across as not so bad a chap in some ways.

I agree with you that Goliath's bit about "books on Merlin in the library" does have something of a public service announcement, although I don't mind that. (I was initially puzzled as to what books on a legendary wizard would be doing in a police station, until I later on learned that the library that Goliath was talking about was next door to the station rather than part of it). I liked Mary Stewart's "The Crystal Cave" myself, and thought it a bit of a pity that you couldn't have Goliath cite it, although I can understand why it didn't get in. (Interestingly enough, the book was first published in 1970, so it would be having its 25th anniversary the same year that "Lighthouse" first aired).

And I also appreciate the differing angles of Hudson and Broadway's illiteracy; Broadway illiterate and not seeing why that should be so bad a thing, while Hudson is ashamed of his illiteracy and hides it. That was another lovely touch, IMHO.

Ambrosia writes...

Response to A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time
This is one of the few episodes I managed to record. I envy those who have the entire series, but I watch the ones I do have over breakfast all the time. (Have you ever noticed how there's never anything on in the morning?) It seemed to me that Lighthouse and Deadly Force played most often when Gargoyles was in reruns. Maybe that's my imagination, but it seems I groaned whenever this ep was on. Initially, I think the animation was a turn off for me. But seeing it many, many times during my gargoyles breakfasts made me realize the value and indeed, quality of this ep and now, ironically, it's one of my very favorites.
I liked how you dealt with the different reasons Broadway and Hudson had for not learning to read and how they paralleled the reasons given by teenagers and adults, respectively. Also, I thought it was responsible of you to refrain from mudslinging TV and other visual media. Like you've said before, a lot of good can come from other mediums, but shouldn't take the place of reading. Many people get preoccupied with bashing TV, saying it's the root of the evil in our kids today, etc. There is a lot of junk around, but there's a lot that isn't as well. Saying that TV is evil and glorifying reading doesn't accomplish much. A good balance between the two (and others) is what people should go for.
Jeffrey Robbins: I love this guy! I wish he were real so I could talk with him. Of course, the whole behind-the-scenes revelation that he was originally going to be a famous author and Arthurian expert makes me all the more thankful that he wasn't. Many times, the characters of shows are the BEST at something or the WORLD'S GREATEST this or that. It's important to remember that average people, doing something special like writing, can be interesting too. It gives kids a different place to look for heroes other than athletes and musicians.
Elisa: From Guinevere to a baseball cap? Care to elaborate? Since we've all only seen the episode that made it to the screen (of course) we have no idea why you were going to have Elisa dress like Guinevere. But hey, better that than the hat. It was totally impractical for the windy ship (even now, I keep expecting it to blow off in the wind) and it looked ridiculous on her. It's silly, but I smile when she throws it down in the alley in frustration. The hat's dead.
Broadway: I can't think of anyone who has matured as widely as Broadway. First he learns the terribly hard way to respect guns, and now he's back being ignorant again (about literacy this time), but he LEARNS. I love how he (Bill) whispers "But you describe it like you were there..." He says something similar to this in another episode. I can't remember the name or what happened in the rest of it, but Elisa helps him with a word he's struggling with without her having looked at the magazine and he pipes up, "Were you there?" But anyway, he's beginning to understand the importance of reading. By the time he's chained up in MacBeth's house, he's had time to think about it and desperately stops Goliath from endangering the scrolls (which Goliath had done in an attempt to save *Broadway*). I really thought his line was cheesy, though. "When you read them, they take you there..." Maybe not the line so much, but how he looked off into space and his voice got all mystical and mysterious... ah well, beautiful though.
Thank you so much for this episode and for taking the time to share your thoughts with us!

Todd Jensen writes...

This is a sort of rambling about gargoyles in general which I finally remembered to submit.

One thing that I have to hand to "Gargoyles" is that it really did change the way I viewed gargoyles. Before the series came out and I started watching it, I'd always taken it for granted, whenever I thought of "living gargoyles" in a fantasy context, to imagine them as the "bad guys", given that almost every fantasy book, game, television program, or what-not out there portrayed living gargoyles as evil. (Particularly fantasy role-playing games). I wasn't even aware of gargoyles being placed on medieval cathedrals and castles to protect them from evil.

Then I watched the series, and was actually presented with the notion of "gargoyles as 'good guys'". I became interested enough in real-world gargoyles, as a result of the series, to read up on them and discover that indeed, their original function was as protectors. And since then, I've found my own attitude towards gargoyles to be more positive - in particular, I like looking out for architectural gargoyles wherever I can. (I've actually come across metal ones as a part of old-fashioned street lamps in my neighborhood). It's become almost hard for me to realize that I used to see gargoyles as I did before the series came out. (At the same time, though, those memories of how I used to view gargoyles make it all the more understandable for me why so many humans in the Gargoyles Universe would hate and fear gargoyles - which is, in a sense, an acknowledgement on the series' part of the modern-day angle on gargoyles, although the gargs are based ultimately more on the original medieval concept of them).

Just thought that you might find these comments interesting.

Todd Jensen writes...

This is a sort of addendum to my "Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" response, since there were a couple of things in it that I'd meant to say but forgot about at the time.

One little touch that I always liked in this one was the brief scenelets with Bronx - first, when Lexington is yanking a magazine out from underneath him with great difficulty, and then when Hudson calls him, and Bronx jumps up, bounds over to Hudson's armchair, and lies down beside it again.

I don't recall having any problems over misinterpreting the "sealed by my own hand" part, but it is interesting to note that the closed captioning that I saw on my taped copy put Macbeth reading the Scrolls' inscription within quotation marks, indicating that they did recognize that he was reading the writing and that it was Merlin who'd sealed the Scrolls. (I just thought that I'd cite a case where the folks in charge of the closed captioning correctly interpreted something).

I was a bit surprised by your account that the lyre's music was caused by the wind blowing through it; I'd always assumed that it was playing by itself through some sort of magic (particularly given the way that it was shimmering). Thanks for clearing up the account of the visit to Merlin's cave.

(And, regarding Merlin's inscription on the chest, one reflection that I had about it was that the Scrolls truly would be valuable only to the "seeker after knowledge" and not to the "destroyer", as Macbeth found out at the end when he actually read them).

Charles writes...

just reading your lighthouse ramble

I was myself surprsied, and continue to be, at the same moment your daughter was, being the scene where Macbeth says he will test Merlin's magic on Broadway. It felt out of character. Even disregarding what we were to later know of him, up to this point he doesn't seem to be the same type of ruthless villain as Demona or Xanatos. He has already gained that grey shading of character and it is hard to get a handle on his exact motives, but it felt to me he was already established to be very interested in concepts of honor and wouldn't stoop to such actions as using a sentient being as a lab rat, especially after he'd given his word. It's not honorable.

After later episodes and more background is given on him, his behavior in this episode just feels even more out of character. It becomes established that he is a man of deep honor, and while he doesn't act altruistically, like the gargoyles, he doesn't act nefariously either. He acts in his own best interests, but within limits. His saying he'd test Merlin's magic on Broadway is teh equivalent of Xanatos about to test the Cauldron of Life on Hudson, but this just doesn't feel right in my understanding of Macbeth. Such an action is a depth I don't see him willing to take, no matter what his ends are.

I'm also reading your memo and getting uncomfortable about the term "villain" being used in regards to Macbeth as a description and as an explanation for his motives and actions in this episode. I guess it was always my own personal taste and regard for the character that I never once saw him in that light; I always saw him as distinguishly neutral.

I can understand when you say this type of confusion is exactly what you wanted, but sometimes I don't see it as much a story type of confusion, where we just don't know him yet and are trying to figure this guy out, but more as a consistency confusion, where his character in other places is inconsistent with his character here.

Just a few of my ideas. And I love being able to get this much discussion and difference of opinion out of a t.v. show.
Here's hoping to seeing you in Orlando.
8-)

Entity writes...

Hi Greg,

As I read the latest set of responses, I became inspired to share something. My grandmother was over one evening for dinner, and I was transfering Awakening 1-5 from one tape to another. Thus, it was playing downstairs. Well, my grandma sat down there for about the whole evening, talking with my dad and such. Now, some info on my grandma (since it's painfully obvious where this is heading): She's almost 80. It would be an understatement to call her a devout Catholic. She thought "Sister Act" was unwholesome. So, I was scared the whole evening that she'd eventually get to asking what show was playing. Instead, she came upstairs at the end of the evening commenting, in that 'stamp of approval' kind of way, that "that show" was really good. I mean, she honestly seemed damned taken with it.

Guardian writes...

In an earlier post, you said Gargoyles airs after 10 pm. However in my time zone it airs at 9:00 pm so your argument about the time it aired was invalid.

Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...

Not a question, but I thought you might appreciate an anecdote: The JSU at Columbia University sponsers a visit by a professional storyteller once a year. The first year the guest speaker was Penina Shram and she spent some time focused on trickster myths from around the world. She was taken aback by the small but vocal group in front that ~happened~ to know of every one she mentioned. Gargoyles was in the middle of the World tour at the time.

Cassandra writes...

Rambling about Legion.

Between Gargoyles and Highlander, the Silver Cup is on my list of places to see if I ever get to New York.

The backstory between Goliath, Othello, Desdemona and Iago was clear enough for the purposes of the episode. But vague enough to warrent an episode or a sub-plot in "Dark Ages." Iago strikes me as a bit like Xanatos, suave and charming when you first meet him but then you find out what he's really up to.

I realized that more than one person had to be inside Coldstone when he started going bonkers at Ellis Island. Though I believe my initial reaction was "he's possessed!", coming from the Bibical quote I believe. Much more cool to actually make the multiple personalties a part of Coldstone's creation. I didn't realize how much damage the computer virus was doing until I read your memo. So I guess sorcery is the reason Iago's soul/personality is still around in High Noon?

I like the idea that "subconsciously Demona knows her man." Her attacks on Elisa are tinged with so much jealousy, it's surprising her eyes don't light up green instead of red. <G>

Mike J. writes...

First a question, then a brief ramble...

Question: To your knowledge, were there ever any Rocky Horror Show jokes at Tim Currey's expense while he was recording Dr. Servarius? You know, him doing the whole mad scientist bit and all.

Ramble: I don't post here often, but I read what's here all the time. I hope the appearance of some treatise sized responces to your episode rambles illustrates to you how successful Gargoyles really was. Despite lackluster ratings, the people you reached, you reached deeply. Speaking as a writer myself, I think that's about the best we can hope to do.

Joel Hodgeson (creator of Mystery Science Theater 3000) was once asked if he ever worried that people wouldn't get some of the more obscure jokes/references he put in the show. He answered that it didn't worry him because the RIGHT people would get it. I think that sums it up nicely.

Damien writes...

I've just recently gotten into Gargoyles and love it so far, especially Demona. I have to say that I really feel sorry for the way she's been treated by humans in the past and it explains her behaviour when she meets Goliath again.
I loved the animation, even 'Enter Macbeth' wasn't that bad (the storyline compensates for the animation I suppose).
I'd have to say that the overall concept (good monsters fighting evil) was aimed at kids. But the individul
episodes, plots and storylines (including Shakespeare characters and plays) attracted an older audience.
I love the idea of the interspecies romance between Elisa and Goliath. It brings the two races together. This also probably attracted an older audience. If gargoyles was ever revived on television again, would you consider putting it on a channel that more adults watched? It might help the ratings of the show.
I was disappointed to learn that the I was watching re-runs of the show.
I can't wait to see the movie and I'm sure it will encourage Disney to revive the show again.

Abigail Thorne writes...

A few days ago I took out my store-bought copy of "Gargoyles, The Movie," which is the first five episodes without commercials. I was trying to remember why I hadn't watched it in a while. That question was immediately answered once I started watching it.

There are certain details in the movie--background music, sound effects, scene editing--that are either off or just plain wrong. The sound of Goliath crushing Elisa's gun, the arrows flying through the air during the Viking battle, the metallic sounds of the Steel Clan opening their wings and firing their cannons--they are all different, and they drive me crazy!! Then there's the background music, which either starts too late or is completely wrong for that particular scene. But the most excrutiatingly obnoxious error of all is the sound of the gargoyles gliding--it's this high-pitched swooping noise, like a mechanical glider, or something, I don't know what exactly, but it's NOT RIGHT!! {Loud scream of frustration!!!!!!!}

I know, I know, these are fussy nitpicks, but the little details really do effect the quality of the program. I'm a diehard Gargoyles fan who's seen these episodes dozens of times, so hearing a difference makes me cringe. So yeah, what's the point of this post? To ramble, to complain, and to ask if anyone else (yourself included) had noticed and were annoyed by the changes made in "Gargoyles, The Movie."

Thanks for letting me rant. And vent. I feel better now.

Tana writes...

Dear Greg,

Just read your Legion ramble...and I have to say this:

At the time when I first saw that Episode, I knew that Iago was trying to indicate that Goliath was betraying Othello with Desdemona, but I didn't understand why the credits listed the characters with such names. Boy was I naive.

A couple years later I was taking a Shakespeare class and read Othello. Can you imagine, about Act 2 somewhere we're reading it outloud and all of a sudden I say outloud: OH I GET IT. My friends thought I was insane. I had to give a quick explination for my outburst, which didn't help much to prove my sanity (none of them had watched Gargoyles).

Since reading the play Othello has become my favorite of the Shakespearian Tragedies (though I admit I have to read several more) And the Love "Pentagram" has become a delightful flavoring to the show.

I say Pentagram because I do believe that Demona would have been caught up in the whole mess. Especially given that Iago likens so well to the Shakespearian version. If he's going to ruin Goliath (and Othello as well) Then "In for a penny, in for a pound" Demona would have to go too. And probably the whole clan (including Hudson) probably would have been at Odds with Goliath thanks to Iago's whispering.

Which leads me to my first question:

1. Did the incident between Othello, Desdemona, Iago and Goliath occur before or after Goliath became leader to the clan? I ask because it strikes me that if after, Iago would not only try to win Desdemona, but Leadership as well.

2. Since Demona collected pieces of the shattered Iago to create Coldstone, we know he was banish from the clan. So what punishment was set upon Iago for causing such a clash between rookery brothers.

3. For that matter, would anyone have truely realized what Iago was doing, that he was responsible for it?

4. In City of Stone's flashback, we see Demona almost warning Othello and Desdemona about the upcoming attack. In one way, these two were used so that it wouldn't be just random gargs...But given the idea that Demona would have gotten tied up in the whole love scandal, it would seem Demona wouldn't exactly like Desdemona (even if the whole thing proved false; she's got trouble forgiving people) So why, in a character sense would Demona have gone to these two?

Well, I'm sure I had more questions along this topic, but I can't think of them after all that typing, so I'll let you get on with the other questions.

"So will I turn her virtue into pitch; and out of her own goodness make a net that shall emesh them all." -Iago (my fav quote from the play)

John D (Jack's Dad) writes...

Greg,

I hope you remember me and my son. We were at 1999 Gathering (Jack was the little boy dressed as Goliath in the costume contest). Anyway, we cannot attend the Orlando Gathering this year (despite having airline tickets) as I must go to SE Asia for business. Anyway....some updates for you as well as a question or 2

1 -In Japan, Gargoyles memorabilia is quite popular. I have been in Japan quite a few times and Jack has brought some of his Gargoyle figures etc;. AS we interact with more kids, they cling to the show. Of course, translating this into Japanese is time consuming...some of the references and history is impossible for me to adequately translate. But here is the point. With Pokemon and Dragonball Z very much the norm, the kids were taken by the STORIES, not just random colors flying by the TV. The kids have been asking questions about the Clan, and I am trying my darndest to aid them.

2 - As part of my business, Disney is a client. In June, we were on holiday and met up with a mid-level person from the main digs. We had dinner with our family (2 kids on my side, 1 on his) and our spouses. Anyway, trying to be polite, he asked my kids their thoughts on cartoons and the like. Jack is strange in that he is more retro than anything else. He is into Tetsujin 28 (Gigantor in the US) and Gargoyles. So this gentleman was given the perspective of a 7 year old that likes Gargoyles. As a Dad, the proudest moment was when the guy asked...Why is/was Gargoyles so special. (Actually Jack's answer made me proud, not the question) Jack's answer was a mix of normal 7 year old ramblings ("because I was at the Gathering in 1999 and will (as noted above we now must change 2000) also in 2000", "because I have so many toys from the series"), but the kicker was when he said.....because I could use my imagination....this from a 7-year old!. He gets it....if only Disney would.

3 - As I mentioned to you in Dallas, Carl Johnson lives very close to my US residence. He burned a CD of numerous Gargoyle tunes............ - real cool. Upon our return, we were going to bring down to the Gathering a full set of the Gargoyle music from Carl, but now this must wait until 2001. I promised to give him some Gargoyle items for his studio from Jack's collection.....He has a huge photo of the Gargoyles now.

4- lastly.... when we met you in Dallas, my son was overwhelmed. He is a true Gargoyles fan and he was very happy to attend. You and Thom Adcox were very gracious to him when you had a few minutes to spare. No one was around, just Thom and yourself and you made the day of a little boy. For that I am grateful. The true measure of character is doing something (the right thing) when nobody else is around to see it!

I hope the series comes back soon. I have seen many postings from the ASK GREG archives and my feelings are I would not change any of the 66 episodes you created..... except maybe wish there were at least 66 more.

If there is any additional insight on how we can aid your efforts to get the series back, I/we are open to suggestions. We have written to numerous Disney executives to seeming no avail.

Best of luck to you in the future. Hope to see you in 2001 at LA Gathering.

John D (aka Jack's Dad)

Blaise writes...

LEGION

At the time I first saw this ep, I did not know that any play such as "Othello" existed (stupid, uncultured me, I know). I always wondered how you guys chose the two names you did in the credits. Later, after I discovered the fandom on the 'Net, I learned that the names came from the play, and I eventually picked up a (edited-Signet) copy, and bettered myself. The character of Iago utterly fascinated me in it, for his sheer malice and his ability to dupe people so thouroghly. But on with the show...

I remember finding myself quite confused by Coldstone's personality shifts. When Desdemona and Iago showed up in his eye, I thought he was remembering previous conversations. Then (being the dense person I am), I finally got the situation in Act 3 when Desdemona pretty much spells it all out (even then, the Xanatos Program's part in the drama for me took a back seat to the interplay of the souls. It was in later viewings that I fully realized it's own influence).
One thing I noticed from your outline was that Iago had been briefed on his situation by the Xanatos Program. Unfortunately, I didn't see too much of that in the finished product. That they wanted Othello to go after Goliath was apparent, and then they merged, but I hadn't realised that they had been in cahoots before Goliath even entered Cyberspace.
BTW: That is a very cool scene where Iago and Program X merge. I just wonder what exactly that accomplished. Did it make Iago that much more powerful in Coldstone's mind?
And I also love the annoyance on Desdemona's face when Goliath hugs her--it's perfect.
On the subject of animation, the two scenes you mentioned--Coldstone/Othello attacking Goliath, and Goliath getting hit with the laser--didn't bother me so much. Othello's attack on Goliath would have indeed worked better had G been in shadow, but even the way it is, Othello strikes me as very on-edge at that moment, and may have been more ready to attack first than look at his visitor. As for the laser, once again I rationalize--the laser has variable power settings, and Iago, though he may know how to work the laser hadn't taken the time to see what power level it was on. It works for me.
My gripes with animation come on a different scene. When Lex, G, and CS are flying to the Clock Tower, and Lex talks to G, the image gets flipped. Not only do the characters switch positions on-screen, but Coldstone's robotic/cannon arm has suddenly become his left. Also, I've always preferred Coldstone's eye to be black with the red iris (as opposed to the white with the red pupil here).

Once again, my density shines through with RECAP. It wasn't until the second viewing that I noticed the Scarab logo (THANK YOU for telling us why that was the logo of Xanatos' robotics stuff). I think I may have looked away from the screen then. But the tag is still pretty good. This ep, and the two eps preceeding it, are what I like to call "Xanatos' Winning Streak." True, he may not have had COMPLETE victories, but he seemed to get more than he lost (or at least seemed to feel that way).
Matt handling RECAP made sense to me, and the "six months of manuals" line seemed like a nice touch (anyone handling high-priced equipment would have to be at least that knowledgable of it). I also love his reaction when he finally tracks down the visor and finds a rat instead of a creature (oooh, he's gonna get some razzin' back at work...).

Good ep, all around. Just one final note. Clancy Brown's character in "Highlander" is called "the Kurgan"--not "Kragen." Just thought you should know.

Todd Jensen writes...

Just read your ramble on "Legion" this morning, and my comments on it.

The thing that probably most excited and delighted me about this episode was the bit in the ending credits which named the two new gargoyles introduced in this story as "Desdemona" and "Iago". I wasn't quite certain if I actually had seen those names in the ending credits, and so I was pleased when I later on discovered Gargoyle sites on the Internet and was able to get that information confirmed. But I was pleased by the Shakespearean reference there, and saw at once the appropriateness of it.

("Iago" really does look like a gargoylized version of the way that his namesake usually gets depicted in Shakespearean art - lean, saturnine visage - although I should add that the most convincing interpretation of Iago that I've yet seen in a Shakespearean performance was by Frank Finlay when he did the character in the Laurence Olivier "Othello". Finlay's Iago, while still definitely villainous, *looked* like a bluff and honest soldier, which, to me, made his ability to dupe Othello far more convincing. It bothered me to have to imagine Othello as stupid enough to get taken in by somebody who looked as if he was about ready to sprout horns and cloven hooves any moment).

"Legion" strikes me as a story that one can better understand when you're seeing it a second time and know that there are two other gargoyles stuck inside Coldstone. The first time that I saw the initial shift from Othello in control of Coldstone to Desdemona in control of Coldstone, in the clock tower, I thought that the computer virus had simply caused some sort of short-term memory loss. When I later on saw it again, however, I understood what was really going on here, and found it very effective.

The Biblical background for "Legion" - in a couple of the Gospels, Jesus heals a man with insanity, which is treated in the story as demonic possession. Jesus asks the demon for its name and it replies, "I am Legion, for we are many." (This is the occasion where when Jesus casts out the demons, they immediately flee into a herd of swine nearby which immediately drown themselves).

Incidentally, I've sometimes found it a bit of a pity that we never saw a story where Xanatos would be putting that virus to use, which I was expecting him to do at some point in the future. Of course, if "Gargoyles" ever gets revived, maybe we will.

Jay P. writes...

hello

i just whanted to take the time to say thank for all your eforts in make Gargoules. And allso taking the time to anser all our questions. Allso i love your rambles about the episodes. i can`t what to read the next ones.

i hope you and you famally have great lives.

Razorclaw writes...

Comments on Metamorphosis:

What an episode! This rank on my favorites! The whole idea of having Sevarius looking different at the beginnig and at the end confused me. I didn't realized until "The Cage". Of course, I understood eveything on the reruns.

And yes I got fooled by the Sevarius's fake death, but I don't watch Gargoyles to try to guess what will happen, but to be suprised and impress. Of course that's why I've put high hopes on TGC some years back and it hurted a lot when I saw the results.

A final word, there's not always happy endings, but they make realistic and original twists. In those cases I say: "I can't wait to see the next episode where they resolve that!"

Puck<40> writes...

la la la... bored. going to comment on "Enter Macbeth".
what can I say? badass. I saw the show from day one. I was surprised by every turn of events. Elisa still having crutches made me think.... wow. show has continuity. impressive. Would Goliath lose the castle? I didn't think he would. It wouldn't follow the typical "villian of the week" shows. Fooled again I spose... Xanatos not caring about the Gargs... just happy to be home. And you can tell he was impressed with Macbeth. Of course... he never saw Macbeth in his own castle. That would've completely stunned him. Shot for shot. He went shot for shot with Goliath. I was just watching like. "oh my god, he's not just fancy gadgets man". It was here that I thought he was *the* Macbeth. Just maybe.. a possible sure he might be before. But to go blow for blow like that. Wow.

Loved Brooklyns "ow *bzstz* ow *bzstz*". Bronx running through the streets and Goliath diving down to get get him. That would've scared the hell out of me if I was in one of those cars.

I didn't like something though..... Macbeths way of weilding the sword. He seemed to me like he should've been more talented than to do an overhead charge. I mean the reflection in the sword spoke BADASS! He's gonna get some! And then... blah. But the drop down from the trench was amazingly cool.

And one other thing... Owen. I always loved him as a character. He took Hudson down! Its here you know he's definitely got more to him. Outnumbered, I saw why he drew the gun, I don't think he would've ever fired. It seemed to me like how one man can hold back a mob with one bullet and one gun. Thats why I think he drew. Of course Elisa had to go and wreck it. =( I think I routed for the villians in this show more than the heroes. I *wanted* Macbeth to win.

Any case, in closing. This show has been and will always remain on my top 3 favorite list.

Siren writes...

No questions, just a worshipping moment...
I have said this before, long ago, but the more I watch tv nowadays, the more I feel I need to thank you for such a wonderful show that actually had a point to being made, besides mindless entertainment. It's a shame where tv has gone. Most shows for kids teach nothing. Especially Nickelodeon and the new Cartoon Network crap they keep shelling out. I believe it is the parent who needs to set examples, but unfortunatly, majority of these kids role models and such are not their parents, but bumbling idiots from tv. So with all the tv kids do watch, they should have some message in them. Gargoyles had that. As does shoes like X-Men, Spiderman, and Batman. They aren't always right on the surface for all to see, you have to dig a little deeper. In just one of your episodes you covered racisim, family values, violence, etc. It was just great! When I use to babysit, I had this one boy who loved guns, only 6 at the time. So I brought Deadly Force. What shock he was in when he saw Elisa near death. Majority of cartoon shows don't go that deep. Unfortunatly it wasn't enough to make him stop loving gun and he still thinks he's a big shot cop 4 years later, but at least for that one moment, he was concerned about guns. I love the whole racisim deal in there as well. The Hunters/Quarrymen remind me of the KKK, though nothing is said, it just took that bit of looking farther. You have these scary looking creatures who are gentle, kind, loving...just like humans. And just like humans, there are good and bad gargoyles. No one race is totally the nicest people. I wish Disney would not have started forcusing on those more cartoonish shows like Doug, Recess, Hercules, etc and focused more on a show with depth and character. A show that isn't easily forgotten and displaced. After these years without new eps of Gargoyles, my love for it has not weakened, neither has the hope that they will bring it back, in one form or another. Thank you Greg for such a wonderful show. I have a young daughter who'll be 2 in October, I plan to let her watch Gargoyles in a few years, when she understands it a little better...*sigh* Till then, I am stuck with Teletubbies. LOL! I already have her a Gargoyle t-shirt.

Sharon writes...

I'd just like to make a quick comment about the show. Sadly, my only exposure to Gargoyles comes from Toon Disney. Consequently, I have never seen the episode where Elisa gets shot. Therefore, I appreciated your rambling on the episode.

Finally, someone else asked if you would like the chance to air a more "adult" Gargoyles on stations like HBO. I am an adult, and I love the show as it is (was). Indeed, I think the show is geared to people of all ages. The stories were intelligent and interesting. Although I admit I would like to see the original unedited version of Gargoyles, I would hate to see a change in the basic spirit of the show. Gargoyles (in my humble opinion) is not Spawn. It doesn't need (nor should it contain) the same level of violence, sex or cursing that was evident on that show. I have nothing against Spawn (heck, I watched it when I could), I just like the ... I guess ... innocence of Gargoyles. I believe that a more violent or sexually charged show would cheapen it. Although I agree that the more liberal atmosphere offered by cable would be great, I would hate to see it change the tone of the show. Or, to fall back on an old cliche, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
(So ends a ramble of my own).

Blaise (repost by Aris) writes...

ENTER MACBETH

I'm sorry to hear you guys had such trouble with keeping the continuity straight in this one. But I'm very glad you did.
It always impressed me that you guys put Elisa on crutches and didn't have her "right as rain" in the episode after she got shot.
One thing that makes me smile in this ep is Xanatos's prison cell. A rug, a nice desk with computer...even in PRISON this guy lives better than the people around him. I love his line, too, when he's in the cafeteria: "Just like mom used to make--when mom was a prison cook." Xanatos calls it a "learning experience." What did he learn--not to get caught again? ;-)
And Macbeth, WOW! I didn't really know it was John Rhys-Davis doing the voice at the time (I just wondered who the Sean Connery sound-a-like was), but everything about him was arresting. The way he held his own against Goliath, his connection with Demona (I was totally floored when he said he had named her), and his overall style was just wonderful.
I also liked the fact that the gargoyles DID have to leave the castle. It didn't surprise me as much because I had already figured they had no choice. A castle is just not so easily won anymore. However, I didn't know that it was a Clocktower to which they were moving--I thought it was Elisa's home. Silly me.
Yeah, I noticed the use of repeated dialogue--easily ignorable for me in Elisa's case, but not so much with Lex and Brooklyn. And the animation does have areas I don't particularly care for, but with this good of a story it doesn't really matter.
Goliath's appearance on the street is pretty impressive, but a lot of us still tend to wonder how so many people seeing him still put "living gargoyles" as an urban myth. I guess the ol' ignore-'em/publicity-stunt mentality is pretty strong, eh?
I always enjoy Brooklyn and Lexington's banter when they're in the cage. Brooklyn constantly touching the cage and giving out a dead-pan "Ouch" is always amusing. Then there's the part where Goliath lets out a roar while in Macbeth's house and Lex just says in a subdued voice "Bronx must've found Goliath" with only Brooklyn's equally-subdued "Yeah" as a response. I LOVE that part.
Goliath laughing maniacally--so in addition to inheiriting Goliath's temper, Thailog also inherited his laugh. At least we now know the answer to Hudson's question in DOUBLE JEOPARDY. Actually, I kind of like it that the hero gave a maniacal laugh. The gargs still have that edge here.
And how about Owen? I still think it kicks @$$ that he took down Hudson and pulled a gun on Broadway in trying to protect the Grimorum. Shame he didn't keep an eye on the injured party, though. Still he demonstrates once again why he's head and shoulders above all "villain sidekicks."

Pyro X (repost by Aris) writes...

Enter MacBeth and Deadly force:

I thought the Animation in Enter MacBteh wasn't half bad. I thought the expression on MacBeth's face when he see's Bronx escape [He pulls his his towards his chest and his teeth go in a figure 8] was funny. I also liked the Goliath expression on his face when he said: "How dare you!"
Also, the stained glass of Demona and MacBeth: Great forshadowing. the sword part... now that just looked cool.

the one part I though was stupid was when Goliath smashed the brick wall. You could see the outline of the hole he was ABOUT to smash! seesh.

I knew something was up between Demona and MacBeth when I saw the glass. But it became way more clear when he said, "I want your queen." Still, I loved MacBeth's Character. I still do.

Deadly Force: When Broadway is flying out of the woods, he goes up, the trees go down and the city comes up. I though that was very cool. When Dracon laughs at stealing the guns, it's a comical laugh. It just looks funny. Go figure.

Derek seems like a no nonsense guy here... Ma Maza asks about calling up Sister Maza from Arizona... Derek says "Don't talk like that." [Or something to that effect.] Right then I knew that he was a tough guy, and would later have a bigger role.

What else? Nothing I guess. Most of what I liked contradicts what you like... but nobody's perfect.

Thanks!

Mike J. (repost by Aris) writes...

ENTER MACBETH

A series like "Gargoyles" is build (in my opinion) on the strength of its villians, and Gargoyles had some of the BEST villians going, especially Macbeth. Even Xanatos, in armor, didn't try to take on all the gargs at once (The Edge) much less succeed the way Macbeth does. Throw in the character's phenomanal personality and history, and you have one very engaging and dangerous guy.

As to the episode itself... I'm forced to agree it was the worst animation in season one. Did you notice in the final shot of Macbeth (in the tape Owen shows Xanatos) that he's got a mustache! Personally that bugged me more than the other probelems. At least keep the character's LOOK right! :)

My favorite part of the episode, amongst many cool moments: While Goliath battles Macbeth, Bronx frees Brooklyn and Lex by CRASHING BODILY STRAIGHT THROUGH THE ELECTRIFIED BARS! This time without the benefit of diveted current. This feat is so impressive it even shocks Brooklyn and Lex. Just look at their faces! I think their actually scared of him at this moment. In my mind, this established Bronx as being, pound for pound stronger than all the gargs, including Goliath.

My two cents... thanks for listening, er.. reading.

Ed writes...

"METAMORPHOSIS" - a big favourite of mine.

I liked Derek after "HER BROTHER'S KEEPER"; I suppose his situation was so believable and yet immensely gripping.

But "METAMORPHOSIS" stunned me. I remember that I timed this episode for some reason - I think I'd assumed up until then that cartoons were cut to exactly 20 minutes and wanted to check it out just out of curiosity. So when I was timing it I was thinking "yeah, right - how long until he gets his cure?" Despite everything, I thought they'd suddenly turn up with a cure eventually. Of course, when my watch told me the thing had been running 19 minutes, my eyebrow raised.

The ending was incredible. I was hooked. I just had to know what happened to Talon. In fact, GMTV never showed it. Eventually I caught "THE CAGE" on the Disney Channel (which I didn't have access to when they showed the episodes first time around). In fact, I think the first episode I saw on TDC that I hadn't already seen was "THE CAGE", which pleased me. That was great too.

I think the whole business of Sevarius' death play and the serum bothered me. How on earth could they have timed it so precisely that Sevarius had his serum to smash at the same time the "Gargoyles" arrived, and that he could be sure of a good way to "die".

Siren writes...

METAMORPHOSIS

I have a thing for cat-like characters as well. Catwoman from Batman has always been one of my favorite characters. So I liked the mutantes a lot. I love the electric eel thing too, it was very cool and very different. I like Talon's attitude. And Fang was a nice addition. I like Claw, but wish I could have seen more of him in the series. Maggie was a slight disappointment, mainly cause we didn't get to see her grow as much. They all seem to accept their new form later in the series, enjoy it even. Maggie was very different from the other mutants. She was more afraid, unsure, cautious...can't blame her. I am getting ahead of myself with this episode into other mutant episodes...but oh well...Maggie is very weak at first. Like a scared little kitten really. Very different from all the other strong female characters.
I think this episode also defined the moment for Brooklyn and all Brooklyn fans from then on. Here's ya got a handsome young gargoyle, who loves this new "gargoyle-like" creature and she blows him off, calling him a monster, even though she resembled a gargoyle. Then she runs to Talon. So ya got this sympathy for Brooklyn. Cause Lex and Broadway didn't seem as interested in her as he was. Ya got Demona even, in Temptation, to me, I felt that when he started to trust her, he started to like her, then she betrays him horribly. Then later, Angela goes for Broadway, when a lot of fans, including me, thought it would be Brooklyn. And poor Brook get's upstaged again, by one of his best friends too. Not that I wasn't happy myself. Actually, I like Broadway/Angela better then Brooklyn with her. Broadway isn't so "pushy"...I am gonna get it from all them Brook fans...So Brooklyn grows slightly from this. It's been over a thousand years, most of those sleeping, but the waking, with no females, so ya got this 16 year old boy, trapped on an island and suddenly the only female blows him off. It's hard for him and he develops the jealousy with Talon.
I also was slightly surprised, but certainly not disappointed by the ending. It was perfect for the episode and I wouldn't want to see it any other way.
BTW, I like look you developed later for the the mutants as well.

Blaise writes...

METAMORPHOSIS

Ah, one of my favs. Pity I missed it the first time it aired.
Throughout the second season, the show was on while I was still in school, so I had to tape it all the time. Three times the VCR, for one reason or another, failed to tape. Each time, the eps that aired were new ones--METAMORPHOSIS, THE CAGE, and KINGDOM (are you sensing a pattern here?). What made this twist of fate REALLY cruel is that these are some of my favorite eps. I love cats for one thing, so I was instantly attracted to the Mutates. This episode was also the one that cemented Brooklyn as my favorite character, so there's another. And, in two of the missed eps, Tim Curry, one of my (again) favorite actors, is featured.
Missing this ep didn't put me too far out of the loop. The only reference to it I picked up was Elisa's remark in EYE OF THE BEHOLDER that the Werefox was "human once, just like [her] brother." For some reason I didn't catch the reference to "mutated victims" and in OUTFOXED, after an initial "Huh?", I forgot about Renard's mention of some "Anton Sevarius" (keeping the strength of THAT revelation safe until the second time around). But, I digress. On with the ep itself.

Brooklyn's attraction to Maggie (whom I instantly recognized and grew interested in--what can I say, I have an affinity for cat-women) intrigued me. I always wondered if the fact that she wasn't a true gargoyle even mattered to him. Did I root for him and Maggie to get together? Not neccesarily. Did I *expect* it? Actually, yes. The attitude Brooklyn displays here is usually as deep as most animated shows go in depicting "love." After some intiial shock, my admiration for the series increased when Maggie wound up with Talon and Brooklyn's attraction was shown as just a crush. Regardless, his "love at first sight" mentality was something in Brooklyn I found appealing (a fellow hopeless romantic, perhaps). His experiences here and his final acceptance of the facts grabbed my notice and from this ep on, I always tended to favor him (though I made an effort not to do so at the expense of the other characters).
Looking at the ep, knowing what I know about the characters now, Brodway's ability to "read people" versus Brooklyn's self-delusion is very nicely juxtaposed, and they have some good exchanges. When Brooklyn tells Broadway "You don't know anything about her" there is much irony--Broadway knows more about her than Brooklyn does.

For what it's worth, I believed Xanatos (probably helped because I had seen EYE OF THE BEHOLDER before I got to see this). He seemed sincere enough to me, and mutation seemed ultra-slimy even for him. Boy was I surprised at the end. I was even more surprised by the end than by Sevarius' "death"--you guys had let people die in the series before, why not now? My surprise was tripled when I saw that Sevarius looked much younger and had a less thick accent than how he'd been played. I thought Sevarius the "mad scientist" was the real thing--he was voiced by Tim Curry who is usually thrown into the roles of over-the-top scientists and (in his own words) "east-European villains" so it was a pleasure to see a sort of send-up of type-casting in this. (And who couldn't recognize Sevarius? Even without the accent, he still had Tim Curry's inimitable pipes.)
The ending: Morbidly enough, this ending is one of my favorites because the good guys actually lost this round. Brooklyn's brooding and Elisa's crying really drove this point home. I am, strangly enough, reminded of a joke T-shirt: "Sometimes, the dragon wins."
And FINALLY! I now know who did the voice of the as-yet-unnamed Fang in this ep. I knew it wasn't James Belushi (it didn't have quite the same "growling" quality) but I couldn't for the life of me figure it out, something I can normally do. Truth be told, I would NEVER have guessed it was Jonathan Frakes (though now it seems so obvious to me). Still, the voices are similar enough, and even if they weren't, the Mutates' voices tended to change with their appearance (Rocky Caroll's (sp?) voice for Derek is different than his voice for Talon, and Kath Souci's voice for Maggie was slightly different in KINGDOM than for her first two appearances). But, nice trivia to know.
I hadn't really noticed how much the theme of self-deception was a factor in this, but it makes sense.
And yes, the animation is sub-par, but I just like the story so much I can live with it (and if I can live with the animation in KINGDOM, I think I can live with anything).
POINTLESS OBSERVATION> Not only does Hudson get left at the Clock Tower, but in this ep (as well as TEMPTATION) he doesn't get a single line). In fact his first words to Maggie are "Who's there?" in THE CAGE.

I'm sure there was more I wanted to say, but I think this message is thick enough already.

Punchinello writes...

Hello.
I see you are making progress with your backlog of questions. This question is kind of an ammendment to another question of mine.

A couple of months ago I asked if your idea for Owen was influenced by an archetype I referred to as being "a supernatural charachter indentured to a human master." I made reference to djinn being bound within oak or silver. Now, I dont recall if I was thinking this at the time, but...

I had just recently viewed "Prospero's Books" by Peter Greenaway again. There is a rather disturbing scene therin, of Ariel, bound in his "cloven pine." Spitting out splinters of wood and carring on. It's all rather ghastly. I had, in the past, made the observation that Ariel could be an other example of this archetype. I think, however, that I needed the emphasis Greenaway placed on certain elements to make some connections apparent to me. Of some peripheral interest is the fact that ariel is another spirit bound in a tree, but of greater interest is the stress placed on the characters servitude to Prospero. It was not much of a stretch to *read Owen* into the character.

OF GREATER INTEREST was how easy it became to read Xanatos into Prospero. I was struck by several things in this vein. The first being the parallel between the two men's status as "mortal's" who had aquired great power through supernatural means; particularly through the service of a captive spirit. (I realize the term "captive" does not really describe Owen's situation.) Further, Xanatos' collection of supernatural artifacts (The Eye, the Grimorrim, even the Gargoyles) could be a reflection of Prospero's robes and staff. The artifacts which empower him.

I also considered (perhaps on the heels of watching an adaptation that placed such emphasis on Pospero's Books) that the Grimorrim might be a volume Xanatos "valued above his dukedom."

I wonder also if a reading of Xanatos as *the exiled duke* would be too far off. Milan is in rather close proximity to Greece. I believe you placed Petros Xanatos as a native, there. While Xanatos may not have been physically exiled from his place of birth, it could be argued that his distance from his father and their conflicted relationship could be read as a kind of exile.

Now, I realize you have your reasons for not wanting to confirm or deny ideas that you had for the show, but were not able to elaborate on before it's cancellation. I read the anecdote about the guy who thought you had stolen his idea. (Wasn't he asking about the characters from "The Tempest," actually?) At this point, however, I think you have rather concretely established that Shakespeare plays a rather prominent and consistent theme in "Gargoyles." I cant imagine that anyone would not be inclined to believe that you were going for this reading from the beginning.

Maybe I'm completely wrong about all of this, but I'm sure it will elicit some interesting commentary from you.

Todd Jensen writes...

Just read your "Metamorphosis" ramble. Thanks for it.

"Metamorphosis" is one of my favorite episodes - largely because of what I thought was a very effective ending (Elisa letting Xanatos have it verbally for what he did to Derek, then weeping back at the clock tower); I certainly agree with you that it made a great tragic close to the story. Elisa's weeping scene remains for me, to this day, one of my favorite "great moments" in "Gargoyles".

And I was certainly fooled by Xanatos the first time that I saw this episode. I actually believed him when he made it look as if he wanted to help Derek. In fact, when he refused to let Sevarius cage Derek, saying, "He's a man, not an animal", I practically gave him a mental standing ovation. And then, of course, when I discovered the truth at the end....

But it's interesting to note that I got fooled by Xanatos even AFTER I was familiar with his being the main villain in the series. I knew perfectly well what he was capable of, and yet still actually wanted to think that his concern for Derek was genuine.

Sevarius's apparent death also took me quite by surprise; even though I knew that "Gargoyles" wasn't a typical Disney cartoon, I was still staring at the scene where he apparently gets electrocuted and Xanatos announces his death, with an attitude of "They actually killed somebody in a Disney television cartoon?" (Of course, I must have forgotten about the Wyvern massacre, the fates of the Captain and Hakon, and even Elisa getting shot in "Deadly Force" - although she doesn't actually die there - at the time). Sevarius turning out to be alive at the end definitely astonished me as well.

I don't recall, on the other hand, what I thought at the time about Brooklyn and Maggie's sub-plot (I hadn't even realized, I might add, until after reading your memo, that that and Derek's part of the story both shared the "self-deception" theme, although it makes perfect sense to me now). I did sympathize a lot with Maggie, though; she gets mutated as almost a conscript for a war that she knew nothing about.

One last little note of interest: although you don't mention it in your ramble, Xanatos and Sevarius tell an additional lie that doesn't even get exposed as a lie until later on in the series, about not yet having any gargoyle genetic material to create a clone from. And then we discover in "Double Jeopardy" that they'd already created a clone (given that they got the blood sample from Goliath needed to create Thailog before the gargs even left the castle in "Enter Macbeth").

As for Sevarius's name: well, I think that it's kind of appropriate that it would sound cliched, given the way that the guy revels in cliches.

Ray Kremer (repost by Aris) writes...

I'm writing this after reading your review of Enter MacBeth. I guess I don't have such a discerning eye, I don't remember noticing the animation. I did wonder how the fire spread so quickly in that stone castle, but some liberties can be allowed, I guess.

Continuity? Stuff's great. Elisa on crutches at the start - beautiful touch. Absolutely beautiful. The previously on Gargoyles clips also helped to reinforce the idea that there was something greater here than just episodic television. I didn't mind the early reruns either. Even though I was excited about a cartoon with Star Trek actors in it, when premier week came I forgot all about it until Friday. Just in time for the "surprise" ending that Demona and Xanatos were both bad guys. Oh well, you win some...

MacBeth. Fun guy. John Rhys-Davies has one of those marvelous voices. But I never gave him much thought until City of Stone. "You mean, MacBeth is the ACTUAL MacBeth? Cool!!!" That's gotta be one of the best surprise revelations in a cartoon show ever.

Hmmm, should there be a question here? Okay, how about this. Did you know our man David Xanatos made the Hall of Evil Geniuses? Yep, some guy's webpage roots for evil, and David's on it:
http://home1.gte.net/locke/genius.html

Blaise (repost by Aris) writes...

DEADLY FORCE

When I first saw this, I missed the first few minutes (it was on early in the morning where I lived and I accidentally overslept). I came in when Broadway was munching the popcorn. Still, when I did see the first few moments, Owen's actions didn't surprise me--I was already impressed enough with him (I had already seen his work in ENTER MACBETH). Dracon did make for an interesting addition to the cast of villains here. Not of the same caliber as Xanatos and Demona, sure, but in his own right he's pretty good.
Now, as for the shooting itself...how do I say this? I was surprised and I wasn't. Let me put it this way--I wasn't surprised that the show would have someone actually getting shot and I figured that Elisa would get shot the instant I saw Broadway pick up the gun. What DID surprise me was how close to death Elisa came. Not to mention the final image of Act I. Then of course there's the end of Act II where Elisa actually flat-lines. You guys always could do shocking cliff-hangers. Yeah, so you couldn't have Elisa die and make it real. She was the secondary lead. At least you did have her flat-line.
How Broadway deals with it is very well done. This is the ep that always impresses me about him. You're right, his rage here is indeed awe-inspiring. Everytime I see the way he handles Glasses I wince in sympathy. I'd hate to have him mad at me.
Him or Goliath. This is another thing I like about this series--the main hero has come close to killing someone in the name of vengence several times already. I like this edge--I like it that the heroes in this show are presented with very real flaws. And yeah, his unbeknownst-to-him-love for Elisa is pretty well shown here. I especially like the last moment the two of them have together.
Back on Broadway, compliments on pulling him out of the "eating machine" pidgeon hole. So many shows just designate a character as that and leave him there. Kudos for giving him something more.
Yeah, about the second or third time I saw this, I noticed it was Matt driving Chavez's car. That always brought a grin to my face the way you guys thougth ahead like that.
One of my favorite parts comes when Owen complains about Goliath destroying Xanatos's guns, and Goliath comments with a veiled threat; "I'll be happy to discuss the matter with him." Do you think he also destroyed those guns to get back at Xanatos? Not as a primary reason, but just as sort of a "bonus."

I always enjoy watching this episode for these little touches.

Ambrosia (repost by Aris) writes...

Don?t worry about coming off as arrogant, Greg. I love hearing your take on the episodes and I look forward to reading them. I always learn so much? Here?s my responses:

Kid movies and, yes, even Disney movies are obviously getting more and more violent. In 1936, the men working on Snow White said that it was too violent for them to take their kids to see. This summer, Clayton fell out of a really big tree with a vine wrapped around his neck and hung himself. A couple years ago, Frollo, obsessed with Gypsy Esmeralda, tried to burn her at the stake. Both of these things were violence and drama for their own sake. Deadly Force, as you said, was making a *statement*. A statement that REALLY needs to be heard these days. It?s easy to look at it superficially and go, ?Nope. Guns, blood. Can?t show that on television.? I?m upset that Toon Disney didn?t look closer.

About Elisa almost dying: I believe this is pretty close to what Doctor Sato said, ?The bullet entered high in the chest, ricocheted off the collarbone, nicked the heart muscle and passed through the right lung. I?ve removed it from the base of the spine.? Yeah. She?s damn lucky to be alive.

I liked what you said about time travel. You can?t change the past. I?d never thought about it farther than that that was the rules of the Phoenix Gate: time corrects itself. Like a river. But it?s true with or without the Gate. You CAN?T change the past.

Matt, as I recall, was also camioed in Her Brother?s Keeper. In his underwear. Briefs. Purple.

I work in a theater. We never keep bagged popcorn for more than overnight.

Tana (repost by Aris) writes...

Greg,

Read your "Temptation" Ramble, and there were a few things that I would love to point out about that episode.
First off: I loved the leather jacket and HOW brooklyn folded his wings under his arms. He really did look good in that episode. ^_^

Second: The bike. It was a cool bike! BUT, the bikers when they see it say: "Cool Hog." Now, okay people who don't know much about motorcycles would refer to any bike as a hog, but these Biker's would know better. A Hog is a Harley Davidson...and Lex's creation looked nothing like a Harley. I dunno if that was you, or somebody else. But oh well, it was still a cool bike.

Third: The spell. Now Elisa says: "I want you to act, FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, as if you weren't under a spell." Wouldn't that in sense nullify some future spells on the big guy? I mean sure, Puck's spell worked well, cause he still ACTED like he wasn't under a spell. Were you maybe planning on keeping with this for future continuity?

oh, and I LOVE your little analizations (sp?) of the episodes. It really lets us get more into your head, and into the world of the Gargoyles.

Blaise (repost by Aris) writes...

TEMPTATION

While this isn't the ep that cemented Brooklyn in my head as "Favorite Character," I have to admit he is GREAT in it.
I still love Lexington's remark about building a horse from spare parts.
Demona's tour of the city--Yeah, the DEAD BODY surprised me too. Very powerful, very good, as were Demona's other two "examples" of humanity. Bennett and Sirtis did WONDERFUL jobs with their voice acting here.
As for the bikers not noticing Brooklyn, yeah everybody notices that. I just try to ignore it and that seems to work. If nothing else, most of the bikers in that scene WERE wearing sunglasses at night (as someone else already pointed out). Come to think of it, some of them weren't even wearing helmets....;-)
Elisa's finger--great, now that you've mentioned it, *I'LL* probably look for it and not be able to see anything else in the scene.
I was surprised to hear that Brooklyn's description of the Cloisters was taken by some folks as "proof" that gargoyles were not native to this planet. Anyone who saw the first two episodes should have understood what Brooklyn meant. Come to think of it, why WOULD people want the gargoyles to be from another planet?
One of my favorite lines in this episode--Brooklyn: "You hold the book, Demona. But *I* hold the *spell*!" I just LOVE that.
The resolution of the spell may have been a bit of a cheat, but it WAS a creative and original solution to the problem. So, you guys still get some points in that area.
Lex and Brooklyn talking about the motorcycle at the end and Lex's reaction are always enjoyable.
Pointless note: Hudson doesn't speak a single line in this episode. Odd, when I think about it. Still, you do at least SEE him a few times.

Good ep.

Entity (repost by Aris) writes...

This is (also) in response to Exolexy's commentary on the post-Avalon episodes. First and foremost, while I do not agree with Exolexy, I do not think it in good taste to make him an anti-fan; an object at which to toss glares as we hang on your arms.

With that said, I would like to say that the post-Avalon episodes had a very jarring effect on me, I believe similar to the one it had on Exolexy. I simply found things to be a bit overwhelming. "The Mirror" had been an early taste, but after "Avalon" things just skyrocketed.

Gargoyles had never struck me as that thick of a fantasy series before that point. My interpretation had been that the gargoyles were the sole fantasy elements, and that that was the premise: Fantasy creatures in a real world. But then the viel was brought back... and at first I didn't like it.

I was a sci-fi fan. Fantasy wasn't my thing. I couldn't grasp beings like Oberon, as it appears Exolexy wasn't able to. My science-fiction conditioned mind kept trying to compare him to Star Trek's "Q", like two puzzle pieces that wouldn't go together. 'If he's onmipotent, why isn't he noncorporeal?' I said. 'Omnipotence demands you be noncorporeal!'

After a while, though, I began to thaw. Then I began to re-watch. And with each re-viewing I came to appreciate the rich mythological and fantasy elements more. Now I couldn't imagine a Gargoyles without all of that.

In short, I owe my appreciation for the fantasy genre to Gargoyles. It was responsible for 'bridging' me over.

Aris Katsaris writes...

After a long delay I am now beginning again to repost much of what had been lost in the crash. Sorry for the delay.

Comment: there were a couple high-tensioned posts of Exolex, Lexy and me which I won't repost - my reason for that is that Exolexy made a comment which seemed to imply to me he wouldn't mind their deletion: if however any of you wants their specific lost comments reposted, just say the word and I'll do so: I'm not exercising censorship, just caution.

Aaron writes...

The caption. Must've been my imagination then. But thank you for the confirmation.

Of course, I goofed up anyway, since the prison is actually *Ryker's* Island, not Riker's Island. Must've been thinking of something else. ;)

Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...

Not questions- comments:

I read your Leader of the Pack posting... as usual, I loved it. Thank you again for posting such things.

I think I remember being surprized by "Xanatos" under the helmut. At the time I was still blown away by one of my all time favorite tv lines; "Because Nietzchi is too butch and Kafka reminds me of your friends down there." {AND the close up on enough letters to recognize Sarte!} I know I was shocked to find out the truth. I thought little of Xanatos for going on a revenge binge, but modern tv has lowered my expectations. However I was stunned when Bronx went for "Xanatos' head", just shocked.

Oddly enough I thought the gargoyles flying away was a nice choice. Many other times there has been widespread ignoring of the "glide, not fly" principle. Here they circled around this unusual unexpected heat source. Under normal circumstances there might have been no way to get back in the air. Coming out to a place without sirious updrafts was a choice the gargoyles made because they had to, a ramiphication of Lex's hastiness. Showing them circling, using the fire to get back in the air, was a touoch of realism with interesting implications. Swimming would have taken away the open question whether they all could swim the distance, especially the part of Bronx howling as if he will drown. It would have been a more explicit version of the 'can't just fly' problem, but not an example of the gargoyles clearly using aor currents to glide.

MAybe I'm just rambling- it is late.

One other thought.
Now that the answers are coming in every day, and the recently answered page is actually moving, I find myself afraid I've missed something that came and scrolled off already, but reluctant to search the entire archive. Perhaps another page would be a good idea. A Relatively New Page in which newer messages, irespective of catagory, would sit for a set amount of time. Each message would automatically fall off the list in 30 days or the like. Just a thought.

Demonskrye writes...

Hi Greg,
I'm working on responding to your rambles on the individual episodes while spacing myself enough that you don't have to read a whole slew of them at once. Hopefully, I'll eventually be caught up enough that you'll remember the rambles I'm refering to.
Without further ado...

"The Thrill of the Hunt"

First off, I think the Trio tryptic was a good followup to "Awakening", since it developed the Trio much more fully beyond their comic relief teenager personalities. Though each of them stand alone well enough, they also fit together nicely with an "Innocence Betrayed" theme. Lex believes the TV version of the Pack is the real thing and gets a rude awakening upon actually meeting them. Brooklyn makes an attempt to fit in with modern humanity and is nearly killed. Broadway accepts the media vision of guns and ends up injuring Elisa. The Trio is discovering the modern world and it's not always a pretty picture.

I also appreciated the fact that Lex was right and in spite of the fact that the episode's events seemed to prove him wrong, Goliath acknowledged that Lex was right. Unfortunately, Goliath didn't seem to do much in the way of "seeking out kindred spirits" for the rest of the season. Though unless I remember wrong (which is entirely likely), Brooklyn uses the same term to describe the bikers he approaches in "Temptation". So maybe the task fell to him.

I love continuity. It's one of the reasons I was so addicted to "Gargoyles" when it was still on Disney Afternoon. And I loved seeing ramifications to the characters actions. I can't remember if I had expected Xanatos to be out of jail by this episode, but I know I appreciate that he wasn't.
And on the other end of the spectrum, we have the clashes between Elisa and Goliath over the status of the castle as the gargoyles' home. Kind of a sign of what was to come, slowly setting up the idea that the victory in "Awakening Pt 5" wasn't as final as Goliath would like it to be.
I agree, this was probably Wolf's shining moment. Much like the gargoyles, we weren't sure what he was capable of at this point. He seemed focused, a skilled hunter, and maybe even strong enough to take on Goliath. Later on, he kind of degenerated into more of a bully type; strong and not exactly stupid, but no strategist either. By the time "Vendettas" aired, he just seemed so inept that I could hardly take him seriously.
The Pack hype was fun. I didn't equate it with Power Rangers at the time, but I can see it now. It also adds to the idea of the gargoyles being from a completely different era that Lex would be completely taken in by something any human teenager could easily identify as so much special effects.
If I was going to compare this episode to "Temptations", I'd probably say that Fox is Lex's Demona. As a rule, Lex hates the Pack in general well into season two, but Fox is the one who seems to really get to him. Thinking on her feet, she dupes him into bringing Goliath to meet the Pack. And judging by his face after she stroked his chin, Lex was pretty well under her spell at that point. Having him so enthralled with the pack really sets him up for the fall later on.
Was that A "Beauty and the Beast" nod when the Pack are seeking out Goliath and Lex on a rooful of stone gargoyles? Or just coincidence? That particular film is one of my other great loves and I enjoyed the ocassional reference to it in "Gargoyles", Elisa's Halloween costume being the most obvious.

That should be all for me. Thanks for listening and thanks as always for helping to make such a fine show.

Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...

Comments on "Leader of the Pack"

When I first saw Coyote scaling the prison wall I immediatly said, "that is SO obviously Xanatos." And when he took off the helmet I honnestly thought you were running out of surprises, I was pleasantly surprised at the end. When Bronx leapt on Coyote and chewed his face off, I literally screamed "WHAT THE F---! THEY KILLED XANATOS!" Then as soon as he got off the ground, for a moment I thought he was still Xanatos and that he would acquire a Dr. Doom esque look to hide his disfigurement. Than he turned out to be a robot, and it all made sense. Than I bust my gut laughing at Hyena's reaction.

Did I think that Xanatos truly loved Fox, well to be honest, no. I thought they were like Boris and Natasha as lovers. But I did like the development in "Eye" and "Vows". Now, I did think that Fox was in love with him after "Brother", just something I knew.

You created two great characters there.

Abigail Thorne writes...

Quick comment on "Leader of the Pack." I had already figured out that Fox loved Xanatos from that scene in "Her Brother's Keeper." But I had no idea that Xanatos returned those feelings or that the two of them were an item--that last scene in the limo was an awesome surprise. I was also totally duped by the Coyote robot--I thought that was Xanatos. I had felt a little uneasy about Coyote's tunnel-vision focus on vengence, but dismissed it because the story was so cool and I was glad the show was back. But when you showed that Coyote was a robot, and that Xanatos clearly didn't care about vengence, it all clicked. Great surprise, great clue, great episode!!

Scott Iskow writes...

Re: "Leader of the Pack"

I have to admit, "Leader" wasn't one of my favorite episodes. In fact, it's near the bottom of the list, right above "Monsters." It did have some great moments, though. I loved the ending with Xanatos and Fox. I liked the scene between Hyena and Fox before they were sprung loose. I also liked the interaction between Brooklyn and Lexington.

But what I liked most of all was something I hadn't noticed until your ramble: The trickery. A lot of clever bits in this show had me fooled. For one thing, I never expected a robot to have to wear a suit of armor, which contributed to my believing it was actually Xanatos. Coyote is the first robot on the show to hide his face under helmet. In a way, it was wearing *two* masks: The helmet, and Xanatos' likeness. The whole show is laced with this kind of trickery.

Too often, I find myself able to predict what is going to happen on a show. It seems that too many of them follow the tired old conventions. Even "Batman," which started out new and fresh, sank into predictable patterns toward the end of its run on the WB Network.

I respect any story that can take me by surprise. Even if it's not my favorite one. In my opinion, that's what separates the talented writers from the ones who merely regurgitate ideas from a preset formula. I think the word for it is... "creativity."

Puck<40> writes...

O.o; just saw all those clan posts you had to look through. Some people have lots of time on there hands. <like I'm one to talk>. Anycase. 9.9; as so my useless comment won't get kicked. A sincere note of..
Thank you for giving us a show <with a little help from the evil hordes of Disney under the name of Buena Vista cause they didn't have full faith in the show>. And thanks to all the people who helped with it. And you for somehow having the weird mindzap to tap into a universe that is not of our own. :) Thats it. <runs of>

Bråndeewine writes...

Greg, your ramblings on "Leader of the Pack" were great. You are too cool. I may only be 23, but I remember Westworld too. :oP As for Fembots, well, I didn't see any machine guns sticking out of Coyote's "jumblies". :oP
*chuckles then sighs* I would really love to get my hands on all of those episodes. I suppose I'll have to go get a satelite....cable sucks anyway. Hearing you talk about the episodes, sounding like such a kid with the enthusium and vigor of one seeing it for the first time...well, it is truly captivating. I love your rambles. Man! What great eye-openers they are!

Bud-Clare writes...

Leader of the Pack comments...

I love the part where Bronx bites Coyote. The first time I watched it, I was sitting there thinking, "Come on, Bronx, bite his head!" I was pretty amused when he actually did it...

(Kind of like in Eye of the Beholder, when Xanatos gave Fox the Eye and I got really grossed out. I thought I was just being silly... until I saw Eye of the Storm.)

As for when I realized that Fox was in love with David, it was in Her Brother's Keeper, since she was getting all gushy. You said that anyone who saw later episodes first is disqualified, but the only episode with Fox in it that I saw prior to the first season was when I saw her at the end of Possession (I missed the beginning), which should have tipped me off big time, except I didn't even notice her. I was too busy boggling over the fact that Owen had turned into a strange blond human. Oh, and I saw CoS before HBK, but I didn't catch on.

I would have loved to have seen the gargoyles swimming back to shore. They glide all the time, where's the fun in that?

I didn't think that Xanatos was lying about being in love with Fox, but I didn't necessarily think he was telling the truth, either. If he didn't care about her at all, he probably wouldn't have bothered getting her out, but "true love" probably seemed a bit excessive.

Blaise writes...

LEADER OF THE PACK
(vrOOM vrOOM! Sorry, couldn't resist!)

I thought this was a pretty good season premiere episode myself. Actually, my brother was watching it with me as well, the first time it aired, and he actually got into it a bit.
I was surprised to hear the narration in the new opening sequence. I do think the dramatic impact was greater when it was purely music, but then again...it's Keith David's voice. It worked.
The prison break had some great imagery and Coyote really steals the show here. Even though the voice was modulated, enough mannerisms were able to pass through (aided by the quips) to make my brother ID Coyote as Xanatos. Me, I wasn't so sure--just didn't seem quite his style. Of course at the end of the act, Coyote takes off his mask and reveals the distinctive Xanatos mug, so I gave my brother a point there. At the end of the episode, however, guess who felt vindicated.
I can't be sure if "Xanatos'" lust for revenge clued me in that he wasn't the REAL Xanatos, but I knew something was up.
Lexington's grudge worked for me. I also liked that it's Brooklyn who relates to him and tries to reach him. It made sense in light of their similar experiences, and coupled with his much sounder "strategic thinking" continued to show him as a growing leader. And I caught his reference to ENTER MACBETH. I always thought it was a nice touch.
But this is Lex's show. And I still LOVE that scene where he blows a hole through Coyote. Violent, but cool (and he does come across more dangerous here than where he's "hopping"--I agree with you there). Of course he gets his "priorities straight" at the end--predictably of course. But I think Thom's reading of Lex's final lines in the episode is some great acting.
Owen--Still knocking 'em dead. Impeccable mannerisms and definitely hints of the Puck.
Random observation: Durning Brook, Bronx, and Lex's fight with the Pack, the three of them are really taken out by only TWO Pack members--Dingo and Coyote. I just find it interesting.
The climactic fight with the Pack does seem to have trouble keeping track of who's fighting who. In fact, between escaping from the hold and the shot of Lex holding the gun and saying "Who's next?" I can't find Brooklyn anywhere. Bias again. Ignore that comment.
Anyway, the scenes with Coyote's head being gnawed on/kicked off/rocketing away are some of my favorite images in the episode (I can be real sick sometimes) and wouldn't you know it, those are the scenes Toon Disney gets rid of.
XANATOS TAG>> I knew Fox had the hots for Xanatos at the end of HER BROTHER'S KEEPER. I DID NOT know that Xanatos reciprocated those feelings. So I was pleasantly surprised, and I liked his line about revenge, robots and true love. I remember my brother voicing his hope that Xanatos was sincere about that part. Me, I don't know why...but I believed he loved her.

OTHER NOTES> You mentioned a "Hudson-game show scenlet" and Lex using "reflective mirrors." Care to elaborate?
Also, I always wondered why Elisa was only in one scene in the season premiere. Now I have a better idea.
Thanks!

Todd Jensen writes...

Just read your "Leader of the Pack" ramble, and a very good one too. Thank you for it; it was really worth the wait.

Re Xanatos and Fox: I was certainly surprised to see at the end that the two were an item - I doubt that I'd even quite picked up on it in Fox's scene in "Her Brother's Keeper". I'm not certain as to my full response to it the first time that I saw it, but I know that it got my attention.

Hyena and Coyote: I've got to admit, I find that the most disturbing relationship in all of "Gargoyles" (come to think of it, even Jackal finds it disturbing, and this is a guy whose idea of a good time is redoing Goliath's features in his stone sleep). Definite proof that Hyena is strange. (That's probably why I never answered the "Why is Hyena smiling?" contest that you set up after "Her Brother's Keeper" - I'm not certain that I wanted to know the answer :)

I certainly agree with you about the bit where Lexington blasts the hole in Coyote; I also felt that he seemed ready to do the same thing to the human Pack members.

One touch that I like about Coyote, incidentally, is his name. On one level, it fits in with the Pack's habit of using "dog-names" for their members. However, it also fits a robot who starts off by masquerading as Xanatos, and who was designed that way by Xanatos himself, because of the "Coyote the Trickster" element (which you eventually brought into the series in "Cloud Fathers") - not only because Xanatos himself is a trickster, but also because Coyote himself was a trickster in "Leader of the Pack" by duping everyone into believing him Xanatos (everyone but Bronx, that is).

I hadn't given any real thought to Hyena's Santa Claus remark before, but now (in light of your earlier mention that you had a story planned for old St. Nick), I'm wondering if that was a subtle little foreshadowing reference like Elisa's mention of Loch Ness and UFOs in "The Edge".

Oh, and I might add that I also liked the way that Owen was handled in it (it's just like him to deliver the Pack's whereabouts to the gargs in the manner of an invitation to a social event), and Fox's mention of various philosophers that she reads (that's one thing that I like about "Gargoyles"; its very literate quality.

Bråndeewine writes...

*chuckles* I just ~LOVE~ the answer given to Gside on June 20, 2000. That really made my day! *chuckles again mumbling "sneaky-bastard"* .... *snickers as she walks out*

Bråndeewine writes...

Uhh....Sheesh, but you had a lot to go through to get here! LOL, I bet your eyes are red and stinging! Thanks for taking the time to deal with us annoying, curious poeple! :oP

Bråndeewine writes...

This isn't a question, but I had to comment on today. As everyone knows, it is Father's Day. I was reading your answers, that you let Erin and Ben give their input on. As I have said before, you are a great dad! Happy Father's Day!

Demonskrye writes...

Hi Greg!
Before I go into my comments proper, I just wanted to mention that I picked up the JLA Showcase for the sole purpose of reading your story. (Though, being a pretty well cerifiable comics fan, I did read the rest of it and enjoyed the majority of it.) I read in the archives that you had originally expected someone else to be penciling it. But judging from the appearance of "Le Trio", Seine, and Left Bank, I'm guessing somebody gave Mr. Jones some sort of reference. Anyways, it was a fun read and it's nice to see you finding a way to do some "Gargoyles" related stuff. Sort of.
Now the real post.
First off, I started watching "Gargoyles" during season 1. I got interested when I saw the trailer that preceded the "Nightmare Before Christmas" video and the various ads that ran in comic books. (It was a nice touch when Brooklyn repeated the "Stopping evil...stone cold!" catch phrase as well as every other one associated with the show in...."Gathering, Part One, I think.) But I actually ran across the show by accident. So the first episode I saw was actually "Awakening, Part Two". I think I caught on to what was going on pretty quickly in spite of missing part one. But after that, my sister and I both became loyal viewers. I only missed a few episodes - usually due to piano lessons - and I caught all of them on a later airing.

I think one things I noticed early on that might have clued me in to the fact that this show was going to be a bit different was Xanatos's line "Pay a man enough, and he'll walk barefoot through Hell." (Forgive me if I'm misquoting; I don't have my tapes with me.) Even though this was pretty much an isolated case, I think the fact that Xanatos was able to say that did strike me.

Thinking back now, I find it rather touching that Tom considered the gargoyles his friends after a single short conversation with them. Though he may just be picking up on their way of refering to one another.

Ah Demona. Definitely one of my top five favorite characters. As I missed Part One the first time around, I can't say if Demona's return was predictable or not. I did kind of figure she was going to be a villain, though I can't remember if I saw the D.A. preview comic before or after "Awakening". I do recall being a little saddened by the fact that the only female gargoyle (at the time) turned out to be a villain. Little did I know.
I admit that I'm biased due to my personal fondness for Demona, but I can't believe that there was nothing but schemeing in her head when she was reunited with Goliath. Yes, she does lie to him about how she survived the Wyvern massacre. But she's had a good thousand years to think about a plausable story to explain that. And granted she does want to win him over to her way of thinking. But I'm not sure that she had really considered the possibility that Goliath would turn her away. She probably thought that she had him just about on her side, since he would be seeing her alive again and still have the memory of the Wyvern betrayal pretty fresh in his mind. And after all those years of solitude, some part of Demona must have felt genuine joy at seeing Goliath again. And in this case, I think she would much more freely acknowledge that part of her than she would after "Awakening".

I got a hint at the fact that "Gargoyles" would be heavy on continuity when Elisa starts telling Goliath about the bright side of Manhattan and mentions "moms who sings their kids to sleep, like my mom used to sing to me". This implied that, in spite of her limited wardrobe, Elisa was not a standard cartoon character. She had not always been a twentysomething and she did have a family. Even though I didn't see them until "Deadly Games", it set me up for their appearance.

At this early stage, the Trio did seem a bit like typical cartoon teenagers with wings and tails. Within the context of the whole season, it does fit and the "Trio trilogy" defines them as individuals. But at the time, I was pretty much expecting the Ninja Turtles minus one.

I can't remember if I recognized Xanatos as the villain at that point. Demona either. Incidently, I'm sure you hear from Star Trek fans who watched the show and thought of Xanatos as Commander Riker. My experience was the opposite; I didn't start watching Star Trek much until after I was well into "Gargoyles". Consequently, I spent the first few episodes calling Riker "Mr. Xanatos"!

And I did appreciate the nice animation on the first awakening in Manhattan and the final fight scene. I love good characterization, but really cool action scenes certainly have their uses too.

And no, I didn't think Demona was dead. She had wings. She'd survived for a thousand years somehow. She was just too darn COOL to die.

That's all I can think of for now. I'll probably post what I thought about the rest of season one some other time. (In easily digested, one episode per post chunks) Thanks as always for your time.

And incidently, I expect nothing less than excellence from the "Bone" movie. Jeff Smith's got control of the project and he used to be an animator. So he has no excuse.

That's all. Really.

Warrioress writes...

I noticed something interesting about "Reawakenings". There's a scene where Brooklyn says "We live above a police station! What could happen?" And at the end of the next season, lo, the tower gets blown up by a missle from the Hunter's airship! What could happen, indeed.....! ;-)

Fanatic writes...

Greg, if you want to revive Gargoyles, you should probably stop quit with stuff that could offend the worlds major religions. Like for instance:
1)You said humans were using a variation of the gargoyle "Ashes to ashes or dust to dust" at their funerals.
This was a biblical reference to humans being created from the dust of the Earth, and a lot of people take everything the Bible says at face value. (I don't but I know people who do.
2)You once said the the Gargoyles Universe is ruled by fate, and God knows everything that will happen. This is a common religious mistake, God knows everything that COULD happen, not what WILL happen. Or at least thats what most ministers would say if you asked them.

Steve Soldwedel writes...

I realize that my composition is a little horrendous at points and, with you having been a teacher and editor, I apologize for the shoddiness of grammar in my post.

Steve Soldwedel writes...

Greg, this is in response to a rambling of yours from a while back that I just read in the archive; the one in which you spoke of vindication in a lawsuit over who'd created Gargoyles. You closed the post saying that you might seem petty. I just wanted to assure you that I don't think you're response to the situation is petty at all. As for him besmirching your honor, I think he did. As for you feeling vindicated, I think you're wholly justified. I write and draw, I've got my own little worlds with their own intricate characters. They're like my children, I know all about them, what makes them tick, who they are in more than just a face value sense; I also appreciate their predilection to define themselves as I write... Being a creator of things, of giving my ideas substance, I can empathize with the feeling of having been slighted by someone who claims that something of yours is actually theirs. The only thing we really have to call our own is the unquantifiable stuff in our minds. Alas when that stuff gets made into a tangible medium, it becomes quantifiable to many. Granted, you know that it will always be the ethereal stuff of your ideas, but having not created it themselves, the rank and file look at it as a commodity; unfortunately, people see commodities fit to be stolen. So, I guess the risk of quantifying and distributing your ideas to the masses is the potentiality to have some dishonorable charlatan try to steal it. I really respect that you pursued your vision and manifested it in a series as spectacular as Gargoyles. It still stands as my favorite show of all time. I hope that I'll be able to find the gumption to get my ideas out to the public; you're a bit of a hero to me in that aspect. And while my feeling that you're justifiable in feeling vindicated could be perceived as hero worship, I don't deify anyone. My empathy is just that, understanding. I wish you luck on all your future endeavors.

Todd Jensen writes...

I enjoyed your "Gargoyles vs. Batman" memo that you reprinted and sent to the list. It's nice to be able to read it at last.

While, as you admitted, some of the differences cited were probably not all that serious (as in the butler one you mentioned), I do think that it gives an effective explanation of the thematic differences between the two series, not only in the head one (the difference between how Bruce Wayne and Goliath have been affected by their tragedies), but also in your mentioning of how Gotham City and the gargoyles' New York differ from each other - which clearly reflects the nature of the leads as well (Gotham City's darkness reflecting Batman's own internal darkness, while New York's more upbeat tone reflecting Goliath's belief that, with a good amount of work, he and his clan can make things better).

(One other difference I might add: time period. The Gotham City of "Batman:TAS" is a surrealistic blend of different time periods - its technology is advanced enough to have computer disks and videotapes, but the clothing, architecture, and styles of the cars and airplanes all suggests something more 1930's to 1950's and color television hasn't even been introduced yet, apparently - while the New York of "Gargoyles" is more definitely set in the 1990's).

At any rate, thanks for posting it.

Alvaro writes...

Hello Greg:
My name is Alvaro, I am from Spain and I warn you that this message will be quite bad written even so I hope you answer.I am a I authenticate fanatic of your series and you are an it schemes.I almost have all the recorded chapters that have been emitted in españa but I doubt that they have been emitted all alone one to tell you that that you are a genius and that you continue with the series although that sees it difficult.Another thing Brooklyn is my favorite one although all are brilliant.I hope you are able to read the message well and that you answer me if you can.
my e-mail: zoom-alvaro@teleline.es

Ray Kremer writes...

My parents just took a trip to Ireland, and were surprised by the daylight hours. It's June, and the sun is up from 4:30 am to 10:00 pm. Scotland's even farther north than Ireland. I guess the Wyvern nights got pretty short in the summer, while being very long in the winter. Good thing Gargoyles don't mind the cold so much. Must've been nice for Goliath and crew to move to New York where the daylight periods don't vary quite as much.

Karen writes...

Dear Mr. Wiseman:
I find myself in a strange situation, but one perhaps you've heard about a hundred times before. I'm going on 37 years old and I LOVE Gargoyles! How I started watching I won't bore you with, suffice it to say I now MAKE my husband tape it on Toon Disney for me every night (to his credit, he rolls his eyes but does it - what a good boy!). Problem is, I don't even have any children so I can't say "Oh, you know, the kids like to watch it, and I sort of follow along to see what they're watching..." Nope. No excuses. I just plain love the show.
So, after all that, here's the question. I think the show was marketed towards the a 'young adults' market, but how many of the fans you accrued actually turned out to be my age? Did that surprise you, or were you hoping/expecting it? (I know, strictly speaking that's two questions, but I hope since they're variations on a theme...).
Thank you for your consideration.

Lexy (repost by Aris) writes...

And for my grand FANali:P

Comments on "Thrill of The Hunt" commentary:

I agree with you on how neat it was to see Xanatos actually sit his time out in prison rather then him escaping in the next episode. That holds true for the castle still NOT being the gargs to keep weather they kicked human hiney or not and later on how we kept Elisa on crutches AND gave her a permanent partner. Little details like that were always what made Gargoyles so realistic. Things didnt just Go away. Convinience is not a frase well reflected in the Gargoyles universe (IMO). I also loved this episode cuz..well LEX LEX LEX LEX..does that cover it? He was my favorite character from line One, "Not _afraid_ are you??" And I think that Thom's proformance was excellent, as you said, hats off to J.T. Again, as you pointed out already, it was really nice to see that type of scenario. Usually, the character in question thinks they are right and is wrong and learns the hard way. But in this case, Lex really _IS_ right and bad stuff still happens. We learn the lesson loud and clear at the end of the episode, but inbetween we are forced to really doubletake. Mabey Goliath was right at first, they should stick to Elisa and forget about it for the most part. I really liked that. Though..I kinda feel bad for poor Lex *LOL* It was his biggest moment in the show! Got to stand up to Goliath and give a great speech... poor guy pours his heart and sole into convincing his leader and his clan..and then gets his trust jerked around and his confidence kicked in the butt. *shakes head* ahh well. Now I wonder if he will ever go back to being as trusting with humans. Most likely not if you consider when they brough ColdStone to the Clock Tower. Lex leans in nearer to Goliath as they are gliding home and says something to the point of, "Are you sure we should trust him? He hasnt always been our friend. To invite him into our home, into our clan?". That shows right there that weather its a human or not..his attitude on trusting strangers has definatly changed. Though, the way these guys live, mabey its for the best *shrugs*.

I also got a kick out of your comment about how you were dissapointed with the animation. Your right, we were ALL spoiled with the magnificence that IS "Awakenings". It really was beautiful. But so were the other episodes. Some were drawn better then others, but when you get down to it Gargs had most of the best animation (if not all of it) out there at the time..maybe even now. (IMO) Well, thanks again for another great commentary..boy..episode seven is going to be interesting..Brooklyn seems to always be a hot topic.. *feels a twing of jelously for Lex* Not to say Brook isnt da garg..he _is_;)

Aris Katsaris writes...

Okay, I happen to have found in my hard disk the questions that had been lost in the crash... In the next few days I will try and repost as many of them as I can...

Mr. Thrugg (repost by Aris) writes...

I'll come out of the closet and admit that I'm a Trio fan, so this may be biased. I felt when Goliath, Angela, and Elisa went on their Avalon quest that the Trio back in Manhattan was very neglected(in terms of air time). This, I thought, was an obviously important time for them (even Hudson probably) as they are finally separated from Goliath. I thought the episode Kingdom wasn't enough to display the changes I felt in them after Goliath returned. What do you think?

Blaise writes...

I like your ramble on the Wind Ceremony. It sounds quite beautiful. It also feels extremely relevant to me because as of this writing it's been nearly 3 weeks since the death of my aunt. Her own ashes were scattered from a tackle-box into a river--she always loved fishing.

Probably a silly question, but would you have shown the Wind Ceremony in the series?

Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the Wind Ceremony ramble, Greg. It struck me as another fine example of one of the best qualities of "Gargoyles" (in my opinion): the care that went into creating the gargoyles as an actual race with their own customs and way of life.

Blaise (repost by Aris) writes...

RE: Thrill of the Hunt

When I first saw this I was still getting used to the characters myself, so most of the impact this ep had on me came in later viewings.

What I did like in my first viewing was the Pack itself. They were very interesting antagonists to me for some reason. Possibly it was because they were human and managed to give the gargoyles a hard time there for a while. Also, the Xanatos Tag. I almost missed that the first time I watched the show. I thought it was over when the gargoyles went to sleep, so I went to get a drink or snack or something. Then I came back and there's Xanatos talking about how "the test was most...informative [smirk]". I was completely blown away by this (and gained even more respect for how dangerous Xanatos could be). I also remember liking the fact that Xanatos's ownership of the castle was addressed and not swept under the rug. It was refreashing to have previous events being referred to and having an effect on the present.

In later viewings, I found even more things to like. My favorite part in the whole episode is when Goliath and Lex have the advantage. After seeing the Pack mercilessly come after them, I got kind of a vindictive pleasure in having the gargoyles now acting as the silent stalkers. It's kind of like a horror movie almost--only this time you want the "monsters" to win. Come to think of it, I've always gotten a big kick whenever any of the gargoyles were scaring/beating the living tar out of their opponents. I never really thought about how they became "borderline cuddly" as the series progressed. Maybe we all just got familiar with them. But I always liked seeing them cut loose when they did.

As for the whole stunt show--so insanely corny I almost couldn't watch. Great send-up of the P--uh, you-know-whats.

I hadn't given much thought to Wolf's display of brain's or Fox's lapse in judgement until you mentioned them. Fox's is easy to forgive (for reasons you have already stated). Wolf--wow, it surprises me I never noticed it before.

Pointless note: I didn't expect the Pack to appear again after this. I didn't know there were any ideas to bring them back in at any later point, so when Jackal and Hyena showed up about 6 eps later I was surprised (and a bit delighted).

As for the animation, I never saw what the problem with it was. Even after the multiparter, I thought the animation here was still good (at least above the level of quality reached by your average animated show).

Oh, and I agree with you wholeheartedly about television.;-)

Warren writes...

Greg;
I have a five year old niece, and we happened to find Gargoyles on TV. She loved it, [She hadn't seen it for a time] Then out of the Blue she asked me if I could get a Gargoyle for her. I got here one of my stone statues and she replied, "no; a live one."
He he he. Don't I [And the rest of us] wish. She then asked where they come from. I said it's only on TV. She wanted one bad, I could tell. She asked me one more question...
"Where do they come from?"

I replied that it's a TV show. Someone though up the Idea, and another one made it happen. I told her you were part of the puzzel. [Michael and Franks names escapped me at the time] She said one last thing...

"This is da bestest show ever, and I love Gregy." I thought it was cute, even for a five-year-old. My own Daughter said almost the same thing, but she said you were the gratest man in the world. Go figure Kids. I am sure you can relate. :)

Keep up ALL the good work you do, and thanks for ALL you shakespearean insight.

Tam "Goliath" Graystone writes...

Hey! I'm new to this site, but I've loved Gargoyles for years; it's a great show.

I was reading through the newest Q's and found someone named Koba Burnett that had posted on the similarities between a character's name and his uncle's. I can point out a few myself:

1. My Shop teacher's name is Lex Greenewinger
2. I know a kid named Marc Travis Marshall
3. My aunt has a tame fox called Fae
4. My girlfriend's name is Elise
5. My last name is Graystone, and my brother's name is Matthew.

Isn't that cool?

Laura aka 'ad astra' writes...

About continuing the continuity (you asked for opinions, so here's mine)- I am a bit of a trekie.. treker.. whatever, and I believe that model might work. Certain major parts, eps, a movie or two, are not considered cannon. I realize that Trek has never been a model of consistency, but it does prove what a loyal fandom can accept, and that the word can be gotten out to them about it, (and much of it was pre-internet). I have never seen the animated Star Trek, but I heard it was declared 'non-cannon'. Supposedly they had some very good stories, (poor animation, but good stories) but had mixed in other sci-fi authors' universes that created too much potential confusion. Despite its noncannon status, elements from it- a character's name here, some family background there- worked their way into cannon. On the basis of that I think that you can safely ignore TGC [excepting The Journey]. That is what most fans want anyway. If an aspect or two crosses over into cannon it would be recognized as coming from what you had told them of your master plan, or perhaps even just a idea you thought was good. If you want to distinguish between the two, you can even put a blurb of official acknowledgement in the credits. Obviously TGC would not be shown along with the other eps which might ironically make them sought after- but fans are funny that way.

Laura aka 'ad astra' writes...

You had asked for people's opinions about your giving away so much. Here is mine. I too have conflicted feelings about reading of upcoming events. I miss out on the chance of surprise as it happens before my eyes. My first watching experience will be more akin to a second watching after a while. I will remember vaguely what will happen, but not exactly when and where. The surprise will be much less, but the story (as do most Gargoyle related events) will hold as a story [most obvious example- I still find Hunters Moon amazing even though I know of all the shocking events]. That said I think it is worth it to let tidbits fall, even if you end up giving away much more than you intended. It keeps people coming to the Ask Greg page, and in turn keeps up interest in the show. Instead of feeling like interest in a finished thing, it constantly reminds us that the stories are still coming. A little addendum; I like the information that sheds greater light on what we've already seen the best. I had feared that you had given most of that away, but then I came across totally new things My favorite so far being, "Good thing we weren't facing Queens."

koba burnett writes...

dear greg, my last name is burnett, and i have an uncle named owen. they're not at all a like, and we pronounce it "burnet" instead of "bur-nett", but it's a cool coincidence, since i like gargs so much. puck, and owen after him, are my fav char's.

Blaise writes...

REAWAKENING

I really do like this one--maybe just because I have an affinity for cyborgs. At any rate, I was quite glad that we got intro'd to a gargoyle who DID die in the massacre. Yeah, sure he was brought back, but mentally putting that scene in the multi-parter adds another dimension of tragedy to the massacre.
I can more than understand the problem with seeing Xanatos and Demona looking at a monitor one moment, then appearing in Times Square about 3 seconds later. At times like these, I do the only thing I can do: rationalize. I make-believe X and D were in some odd, high-tech, bus-like vehicle (mobile control unit, anyone). It's silly, but it works for me.
Another animation note--in addition to Hudson's sword--when Brooklyn tackles Demona they are below the top cables of the bridge, and before they hit the ground they fall onto and bounce off...the top cables of the bridge. Oh well, the confrontation is still too great for that little bit to ruin.
Oddly enough, I don't mind Elisa's little crack about the size of her car. I actually find it an amusing, sarcastic beat. And yeah, the scarf and gloves are nice.
And of course, there is an abundance of funny lines. In addition to the bit with "Bambi" and Xanatos' fulfillment of a life-long dream ("It's alive! ALIVE!!"), I just love Morgan's little response to Elisa's "There must be something we can do."
Morgan: "I don't think so. Unless you're packing a nuclear weapon." I can see why you keep bringing this guy back--he's a wonderful character.

Coldstone> I was glad Micheal Dorn did a voice on the show. I mean, just listen to the guy! Coldstone himself made for some memorable moments. I noticed that you guys didn't put the "underwater respirator" on him as the memo stipulated. What changed you guys' minds?

The look into Gargoyle culture here was also quite welcome. A nice touch that the gargoyles did not "officially" become crime-fighters until the end of the first season. Kind of more organic and unique than most series that just intro a group of non-human heroes and have them be crime-fighters more or less from day one. And the differences in opinion of the gargoylean proverb between the characters was a nice use of the ep's theme. Goliath's quandry here is quite compelling.

Finally, just one question dealing with the memo. You made mention of a Madame Serena. Who was she?

Blaise writes...

ENTER MACBETH

Despite the animation (which even I must admit is sub-par for what I expected of "Gargoyles") this is one of my favorite episodes to watch. When I saw this, I had long ago seen a (very amatuer) performance of the play (heavily abridged of course--it was done by elementary schoolers). So naturally, the title immediately grabbed my attention. When Macbeth first appeared and spoke, my first thought was, "Is that Sean Connery's voice?" But I was still hooked on this character. His style, his equipment, and the fact that he knew about the gargoyles. The revelation of his connection to Demona--hell, the admission that he named her--just really drew me deeper into the character. And his final fight with Goliath, and the escape from his coat...I was eager for him to return.
I also liked some of the comedy snuck into this ep. Brooklyn's little bit with the electric bars, or his and Lex's reactions when they hear Goliath's roars reverbrating throughout the castle. Just wonderful. And in later viewings, I noticed more of Xanatos' prison life. I mean, look at his cell! The things one can do with some money. There's also his wonderful line in the cafeteria, "Just like mom used to make. If mom was a prison cook." He calls his term there, "a learning experience." What exactly did he learn--not to get caught again?
Then there's Owen. It really blew me away how he handled Hudson and Broadway's attempt to take the Grimorum. Too bad he didn't pay any attention to the party on crutches.
On that note, I cannot tell you how glad I was that you guys put Elisa on crutches. I was getting quite use to the continuity of the series, and I had developed a taste for it. Maybe that's why I wasn't shocked that the gargoyles had to move out of the castle--common-sense (at least from the audience perspective) dictates that they HAD to leave. Not to mention that such an action was in keeping with the feeling I got from the series. Bottom line: It made sense.
I just didn't expect them to end up in a clocktower. Just love the juxtuposition of Xanatos' cheery home-coming with the gargoyles' somber-but-hopeful relocation.

THERE! I think I've recovered my lost ground (and then some).

Blaise writes...

DEADLY FORCE

I missed the first few minutes of this the first time it ran. I came in on Broadway in the movie theatre, but I was able to pick up what was going on. When I did see the first few minutes...I was already impressed with Owen because I had seen him in ENTER MACBETH. Regardless, I still think he ROCKS in how he handles the attack. The way he takes out one of those goons...coolness.
Bruno--didn't notice him the first few times. But when I did, I liked the touch.
And then the end of Act I. When I saw Broadway watching the movie, I figured out what the ep would deal with. When I saw Elisa leave her gun out, I figured that Broadway would play with it and that she would be hurt. I DID NOT expect her to be hurt to the point of unconciousness. I really appreciated the realism in this. Yeah, you couldn't let her die, but at least you had her flat-line.
Dracon and Glasses had some style--Dracon especially in his confrontation with Elisa.
I love Goliath and Broadway's respective rampages. You're right, Broadway indeed presents a fearsome force when angered. That fight at the end...excellent. I, too, notice that the gargoyles seem to have more edge in these early eps, and I like it. I've always enjoyed monstrous heroes of the night, so to speak.
Broadway's reaction to shooting Elisa, and his accepting responsibility for it really speak to me.
Goliath destroying the guns> I've always wondered if, at the back of his mind, Goliath got a small kick out of destroying Xanatos' property. I'm not saying it was his main intent, but maybe sort of a "bonus."
The family Maza and Capt. Chavez were also touches I liked, and I'm glad this wasn't their only appearance. A wonderful cast. And in later viewings, I did recognize Matt as Chavez's driver. Just another thing to smile about.
Yeah, I noticed Goliath's feelings for Elisa here, too. I especially love their last moment together, when Elisa calls his name and he strokes her hair saying, "Shh. Rest now. You are safe." So beautiful.

Blaise writes...

Repost of THRILL OF THE HUNT thoughts.

I also was still getting used to the characters in this episode, so I didn't notice a lot of the little things you mentioned until later viewings.
Now that you mention it, Wolf did seem to display a bit more cunning in this episode than usual. Fox taking the hostage I could definitely see as "floundering for a life preserver" if you will. In fact I did find the Pack quite appealing in this. Maybe because they were a unique type of enemy I didn't normally see animated action heroes fighting. I liked their style and the fact that they had fairly individual personalities. And for some reason, I think I found it fitting that in this episode Wolf was the last to fall. Actually, at this time I thought the Pack were just some one-shot villains (I missed the first part of the Tag, see below) and so was quite pleasantly surprised when Jackal and Hyena returned several eps later.
I was also glad that you guys didn't just sweep Xanatos going to prison under the rug, or the danger he posed to the gargoyles. And the stunt show and kids scenes are so wonderfully ironic.
I almost didn't see the Xanatos Tag the first time. After the gargoyles went to sleep, I think I went to get a drink or something, and then I came back and saw Xanatos in prison talking about how the "Test was most...informative" and giving his smirk. I was blown away to see he was behind it and still a menace even IN prison. The show gained even more respect in my eyes. And how about Owen, huh?
In later viewings, I took especial note of Owen's first few lines in the episode. A villain who "is not the sort to harbor a grudge"--you don't find many of those. Then there's when Goliath and Lex become the hunters to the Pack's prey. I just love how Hyena is taken out without even a sound. Then Dingo's swooped away, and we only see Goliath take out Jackal as shadows. Kind of like a horror movie, only the monsters are the good guys.
I hadn't noticed the change in POV before, but you're right, it is VERY effective. And in later viewings, I noticed Lexington made valid point. He just tried with the wrong people this time.

Todd Jensen writes...

Because my ramble-replies to "Temptation", "Deadly Force", and "Enter Macbeth" were all lost in the recent crash, I'm sending reconstructed versions in again. This one's for "Temptation".

One thing that I really like about this episode is Demona's development. She's in the wrong, but she's convincingly in the wrong, as she explains why humans will never accept gargoyles. Even Goliath has to admit at the end that what she told Brooklyn about humans is partly (but only partly) true. It's part of what makes her such an effective villain.

At the same time, Elisa shows at the end, by her loyalty to the clan, and her cleverness in finding a way of freeing Goliath from the spell, that not all humans are evil or anti-gargoyle, an important point. (That's why I don't really mind Elisa's means of freeing Goliath, even if it is, as you mentioned, borderline "cheating". The reward that came from showing that some humans could help gargoyles more than outweighed the problem in question). Merely showing Demona to be treacherous and scheming wouldn't be enough to counter her arguments.

And Brooklyn comes across very sympathetically, too. I liked your analysis of his behavior in this episode.

The Cloisters bit is one of my favorite parts, especially where Brooklyn talked about it being so much like "the world that we came from". (And no, I didn't think that that meant that the gargoyles were aliens; I understood that he was talking about medieval Scotland). That part clicked for me because of my (mentioned before) fondness for things relating to the Middle Ages.

And I was amused by your little bit about the motorcycle. Between that and the "garg-chopper" in "Her Brother's Keeper", it's pretty clear that the gargoyles' vehicles never seem to last very long. (Not that that's really surprising; as Goliath pointed out in "Protection", gargoyles supply their own transportation, which makes fancy motorcycles and aircraft for them pretty much redundant).

(I take it that the "Eye of the Storm" "suggested toy" that you eluded to was Goliath in his "Odinic" form?)

Blaise writes...

Hey Greg, sorry to hear about your troubles with the crash on the weekend of April 16th. It also seems that approximately 7 days of questions and replys to your rambles on THRILL OF THE HUNT, TEMPTATION, DEADLY FORCE, and ENTER MACBETH have also been lost.
That being said, I shall try to repost my own thoughts (as near as I can recreate them) on each of these in the next few days.
Here's hoping no more gets lost in the future.

Ambrosia writes...

Hi Greg!
Have you heard about the movie Frequency? It looked interesting to me because it presents the *other* theory of time-travel: what if you *could* change the past? From the previews, the theory doesn't seem to make any sense... it's the whole Back to the Future thing again: people disappearing from photos etc. (doesn't mean it doesn't look like a good movie though...)
It just seemed to reinforce the accuracy of the rules of the Phoenix Gate...

Lexy writes...

Hello Greg:)

I just read your lil ramble that mentioned how they pulled the switch-a-roo when airing Bonkers. I just thought I'd put down a comment or two on that since I loved watching the show. Now that I know Meranda (?sp?) was supposed to be the ONLY partner for Bonkers, I can see your point of view. That really rips that they took the original and just kinda stuck it in later as an after thought.<--(one word or two?? scratches head) But when the show was still airing new episodes I have to tell you, when they suddenly stuck in a new parter and we all said goodbye to Lucky I was pleasantly surprised. This wasn't because I didn't like Lucky, I just loved the idea that they had no problem with taking out a main character and just replacing him like nothing had happened. They sub'ed Meranda in..and life just went on. The episodes IMO were still good. I guess what I'm trying to say here is..when they took Lucky away and added Meranda, It never came off to me as "Oh geez, their getting lazy..so who's this blond chick??" It didn't _feel_ like I was getting some second hand idea shoved in my face. I considered both partners and the episodes they generated to be well done. I really can't say which I liked better. It wasn't like here comes this new character and things went down hill. Part of the reason I loved the switch. It just appealed to me seeing that a show had the guts to mess with MAIN characters like that and still come back at you with, IMO, good episodes. I believe that to be one of the main reasons Gargoyles was so awsome. Like life, things change. I dunno...just thought I'd mention that to you:) Seeya!!

Lexy

Abigail Thorne writes...

Okay, I've been reading everyone else's comments on "Awakening, Parts 1-5," so I finally decided to give it a go. When I first saw the commercials for "Gargoyles" way back in 1994, I had absolutely no idea what the show was supposed to be about. Neither did my brother. But hey, it was on the Disney Afternoon, which we both loved, so why not try it out? That's what we were thinking when we tuned in and watched Part 1.

My first impression? I couldn't tell whose side I was on. We were in this big battle with evil Vikings attacking on one side, and scary-but-cool-looking flying monsters on the other. As the fight went on, especially with Goliath and Demona kicking Viking ass, it was still hard to tell if the show was called "Gargoyles" because it was going to be about monsters terrorizing everybody in sight.

But I was curious to find out what was going on, and as the half-hour progressed it was easy to see that the Gargoyles were noble creatures who were being unfairly treated by the humans. The humans saw them as monsters, just like I initially had, when all they were doing was protecting them from harm. I really felt bad for the clan when I learned this, and I admired Goliath for his wisdom in dealing with the Princess (it's funny how he can be so hot-tempered about some things yet so patient about others, like waiting for acceptance from the humans).

The bottom line? By the time the episode was over, I was hooked. I cared about these characters, and I wanted to know what was going to happen to them. I thought the animation was great and the story was soooo cool, and I wanted more. I could already see that this show was going to be different from any other cartoon I had seen. It was like a sophisticated and engrossing novel, and I was annoyed that I couldn't just read on and find answers to my questions (Is that red-haired gargoyle really dead since she's in the opening theme? Are the gargoyles responsible for those explosions at that skyscraper? How'd they get there anyway?).

So thanks for the great opening. You got me, my brother, and my mom hooked from the very beginning, which is what good storytelling does. I watched the rest of the show religously, and I was never disappointed. I just hope we haven't seen the last of "Gargoyles," because there's so many stories left to tell in this novel of yours.

Todd Jensen writes...

My "Deadly Force" "reply-ramble".

Your ramble on this story was good. I honestly don't remember my response to first seeing it that well, beyond some shock at Elisa's fate at the end of Act I. I agree, however, that it was very effective drama, and a great story.

(About your admission that it was a bit dishonest to have Elisa survive but that you just weren't ready to have her die yet, I can certainly agree with you about the latter particularly. Truth to tell, after analyzing the situation for the clan at the time, I'd definitely say that if Elisa had died, the gargoyles would have been in serious trouble, given that she was the only human whom they were on friendly terms with at the time. The only other humans that they knew by that point were Xanatos and the Pack, who were their enemies - and Owen (though, as it turns out in Season Two, he's a borderline case as a human), who is too loyal to Xanatos to hide them from him. With Elisa dead, they'd have had no new home such as the clock tower ready when Xanatos drove them out of the castle, and things would have gotten almost hopeless; it would certainly have made for a very short series. So I don't blame you for having Elisa survive; she had to for the series' sake).

I agree that Broadway's well-handled in that one, and certainly does not come across as a mere "garbage disposal with wings" :) (The scene of him weeping on the building, and of him yelling at the mugger in Central Park, "What's this? A new kind of gun? A new way to kill people?" are ones that I especially found memorable). Nice job of highlighting him.

Two other little notes about this ep, both which I find rather amusing. One is the way that Owen pronounces "power ranges" when he's describing the stolen particle beam accelarators to Elisa and Chavez; a bit of a dig at the competition there, eh? The other is that the last two times that I watched this episode on tape, when Cagney meowed at Elisa, my own cat sat up at attention for a moment upon hearing it. (I always rather liked Cagney; I'm quite fond of cats, in fact).

Todd Jensen writes...

An additional little thought, inspired by your comparing Coldstone to the Frankenstein monster. As somebody who's read the original book by Mary Shelley, and quite liked it, I feel that while Coldstone certainly has a strong echo of the monster in him, as you've pointed out, I feel that Goliath does as well, although more in a contrast than in a similarity.

Like the monster (as portrayed by Mary Shelley in her book; alas for the way that Hollywood weakened the character by turning him into a mute, shuffling brute), Goliath is a noble being who appears threatening towards humans and is shunned and feared by so many humans whom he seeks to help. Also like the monster, Goliath is a thoughtful and eloquent being, and well-read with a taste for the classics (the Frankenstein monster reads Plutarch's Lives and Milton's "Paradise Lost", while Goliath reads Shakespeare and Dostoyevsky). The big difference is that the Frankenstein monster is all alone, with nobody to befriend him, and becomes embittered towards humanity thus, while Goliath has the clan and Elisa, which undoubtedly helps him. They're almost foils, in a sense. (Of course, Goliath also isn't an artificial creation, either, as the monster was). Just a little thought that had occurred to me.

Todd Jensen writes...

Ah, at last the "Re-Awakening" ramble. It was well worth the wait, too.

One thought that I've recently had on Coldstone: I wonder if any of us, living in the end of the 20th century, can fully comprehend the horror that his cybernetic condition must have held for him when he was first "re-awakened" by Xanatos and Demona in this episode. For any of us, waking up and discovering that we'd been turned into a cyborg would certainly be a horrifying enough experience. But Coldstone's experience is all the worse, at least, IMHO, because of one simple factor: cybernetics are completely beyond the world-view of anybody born (or hatched, in this case) and raised in the 10th century. He wouldn't know what they were, beyond just some strange form of magic. All that he can know is that something utterly alien, beyond his comprehension, has become part of him. I thought that the episode did a good job of displaying his horrified response to his transformation (especially the part where he uses that blaster built into his arm for the first time and is staring at it in shock and horror).

I'd also spotted some of the parallels with "Awakening", including the bit about how Goliath pronounced "detective". And I certainly agree with you that, if "Gargoyles" had ended there, "Re-Awakening" would have given it a great series finale. (Of course, you got to do another 52 episodes, all the way up to "Hunter's Moon", an even better "might-have-been" series finale, but that's another story).

I also liked your pointing out about how the gargoyles' thoughts on protection, and its evolution into protecting Manhattan, were handled in this story.

A couple of minor parts that I particularly like in this episode:

1. The way that Xanatos glares at Demona when she introduces him to Coldstone as her servant.

2. The "explosions in Bambi" bit.

3. And the very resurrection of Coldstone, which is one of my favorite "special-effects" sequences in "Gargoyles".

Blaise writes...

TEMPTATION (revisited)

Although this wasn't the episode that cemented Brooklyn as my favorite character, it was still one I found compelling. And your right, he is cool--especially in the Act I fight. Yeah, the fact that he wasn't in shadow and you could see his snout does detract from the scene somewhat, but then the bikers were wearing sunglasses at night. Come to think of it, a few of them didn't even seem to be wearing helmets....
Anyway, I'm glad the little touches you guys used in this ep--Demona's comments on the past centuries, the reference to the previous episode, the DEAD BODY. That last one especially. I would never have dreamed of seeing it even hinted at in an animated afternoon show. Marina Sirtis and Jeff Bennett really did a good job with their characters here.
Elisa's finger--oh, great. Now when I watch the scene again I'll look for it and probably not be able to see anything else again.
On the subject of animation, for both this and the last episode I liked them just fine. It was far better animation than what I was used to, that's for sure.
I never thought that Brooklyn's remark about "the world we came from" referred to an alien planet. Why do so many people insist that gargoyles be aliens?
I especially like Brooklyn in the final Act--his outrage against Demona, his cunning, and his lines!
"I was a FOOL to trust you!"
"You hold the book Demona, but *I* hold the spell!"
His acceptance of his fault in the scheme I find quite gallant.
As for how they "free" Goliath of the spell, yeah I guess it is a cheat. HOWEVER, I have not seen any other show defeat a "mind-control spell" in the same way. So kudos to you guys for originality at least.

Todd Jensen writes...

My ramble-reply on "Enter Macbeth".

Well, now we know the reason for the delay on this one. I really liked this episode, particularly on account of the name. I've always been quite fond of Shakespeare's "Macbeth", and so the title grabbed my attention at once. I don't know if I'd even suspected that Macbeth was *the* Macbeth (not until "City of Stone" came out), but I found his name very intriguing, and the character as well. Mac's one of my favorite characters in "Gargoyles", in fact. (And "Macbeth" certainly strikes me as the most appropriate Shakespeare play to get into "Gargoyles", in view of Goliath and his clan being Scottish).

I honestly don't recall how I responded to the gargoyles moving out of the castle, the first time that I saw it. Except that I was a bit sorry, since I liked Castle Wyvern. But at the same time, I understood that it was necessary to do so, and the clock tower made a good home for them.

(Truth to tell, I can understand, and sympathize with, Goliath's reluctance to leave the castle. For one thing, having moved twice in the last five years, I know that it's not an easy thing to just move to a new home; it's difficult to tear oneself away from a place that you've been living in for quite a while. Also, as Goliath pointed out, the castle was the only link that the clan had left (except for themselves) to the 10th century. Take away that, and they'd be feeling entirely stranded in the modern world. Plus, I've always liked castles, which gives me a further bias there).

(I very much liked Macbeth's home as well, with its very medieval atmosphere - particularly the suits of armor and swords - almost like the armory displays in the Tower of London - and thought it a bit of a pity that the place burnt down).

Aris Katsaris writes...

So, what's *your* guess at the real identity of Todd?

Guesses among the fandom vary: Merlin, Duval, you, your evil twin, God Allmighty, 42, a huge red dragon, a Vorlon (Babylon 5 reference btw), CrzyDemona's time-travelling son, the random typings of Gore's cat, and a figment of our imaginations, have all been suggested... :-)

Brandeewine writes...

A ramble about your pet peeve:
Greg, I would have to totally agree with you on that one. It seems to me, that many people grow up believing that it is ok, to put others down, to prove a point.

I grew up, believing (and still believe) that everyone is equal. I have seen REAL people hurt, by REAL comments that were intended to make others look good. (This is how rumors start as well, it seems [another taboo in my book]). Reputations are ruined and friends once had, are lost.

It just really seems to be a waste of time. I see in a lot of this in the Gargoyle chat rooms, where people constantly compare their art to another fan's (even I am guilty of this). It seems a shame to see that people do not give themselves or others the credit they truly deserve as individuals. What I mean is, if we all were not different, then this world would be one boring place.

So I guess I am just rambling, that instead of belittling others (and ourselves), we should look for the good and beautiful things in everything around us. Make life a positive experience rather than a negative one!

Ok, I hope that was organized enough to be understandable.... I would have thought about it before writing it, but I didn't want to wait, in case I ended up forgetting to respond. I guess it is something I have always felt strongly about. I am glad you feel the same.

Just a note: I think Erin and Ben are lucky to have a dad like you!

Blaise writes...

Hey Greg!

Read your ramble (or rant, as you may prefer) on comparisons. I myself noticed the same thing a while back. Some of the most fervent "Goliath-bashers" were ususally devotees of Demona or Brooklyn.
Truthfully, doing this kind of thing always did strike me as unfair to the characters of the show. I mean, you and everybody else wrote these characters like "people" and not as, say, selling points for action figures (which could put ME on a rant, but I digress...). The depth of the characters was part of the reason why I did not favor ANY of the characters during the first season--I liked them all more or less equally.
Regardless, I never in my life expected to hear you rant on the subject. (shudder) I wouldn't want you mad at me!

Demona Taina writes...

This is more of a comment than a ramble, but here you go. :)

I've always admired Goliath. Not only is he handsome, seven feet tall and very strong, but he's much more. He's loving, caring, and so romantic. The way he talks, the way he smiles (when he does) the way he looks at Elisa, the way he touches her hair. Like in the episode "Deadly Force." He almost fell off the castle when Owen told him the bad news. How he almost killed Dracon seeking for revenge.

He is so romantic, it's like he carefully looks for the perfect thing to say all the time. I just love him.

Not only is he loving and caring, but he is intelligent, in his own special way. He may not understand this new world in its entirety, but he does, and he's learning fast. That's one thing I've always admired about him, he's a fast-learner, even Thailog complimented him on that in "Sanctuary."

But that temper. Anything ticks him off. If he could just learn to control it, I think he'd be perfect. For example, "Enter Macbeth," when he found Elisa, Hudson and Broadway outside the castle, and when Elisa told him about "their new home." He was furious, he even screamed at her. "How dare you!?!" Broadway had to pitch in to knock some sense into him, but he still wouldn't listen. That was, until Hudson spoke. He respects Hudson, and that's obvious, but he still couldn't help but roar to the night. And how everyone gasped at that, wow. Great episode.

Back to Goliath. Umm, what else can I say about him? Oh, he can dance. :) And beautifully, may I add. "Eye of the Beholder" is one of my favorite episodes, the way they danced. The way he bowed to her, the way he twirled her. Wow. I've lost count of all the times I've hit the rewind button to watch that scene all over. :)

His sense of honor. He waited for Odin to get up to strike again. He even stopped Demona from dropping a human to a certain death. He lost Demona for struggling to do what was right. Wow.

His manners. He bowed to the Princess even if she had called him and his kind "beasts." It wasn't stern, it wasn't sarcasm, he really meant it. He left the Princess speechless with his manners.

His vocabulary. The only thing close to a curse he's ever said is "Jalapena," and that's not even a curse. He barely uses contractions, too. For example, he says "cannot" instead of "can't." He is so nice. I just love his way of speaking.

His skill, that's one thing I love of him. That's why the Pack wanted to hunt him, Lexington just came in as a bonus, they wanted the excersise, they wanted a thrill. And Goliath was just it. But he beat them, with the help of Lexington.

Oh, yeah, his looks. :) That's the first thing I noticed about him. After thoroughly analyzing the episodes, I realized that he's more than good looks. But back to it, he is handsome. There's no denying that. Elisa literally fell for him the first time she saw him. :) I still don't understand how his hair stands uop like that, but it still makes him very handsome.

His colors are great, too. I mean, he's not dark, nor too light. The colors just suit him. That lavender skin, with that brown hair blue and black wings. Wow. :)

The way he smiles, the way he walks, the way he speaks... it's just so unique. Not even Thailog's like him, and he's a clone. :)

I sound a like a huge fan, don't I? Well, I am, I've always been, and I will always be a huge fan. :)

BTW, I saw somewhere that Goliath had mutliple spikes coming from his arms, and also the tip of his tail ended like Ottello's before he was changed to the way he is now. but a ball or something. Anyway, who changed those features? And why? I think they made him very distinctive.

So, that's all for now. :P I think... there's much more I like about him. Anyway, thank you for your time!

-A devoted fan

Aaron writes...

Greg, no kudos for you! ;)

Seriously, the movie's called Dead Again, a beautiful piece of film noir starring Kenneth Branagh, Emma Thompson, Derek Jacoby, and an uncredited Robin Williams.

I'd recommend it highly.

Goliath Fan writes...

I'd like to quickly discuss my feelings about "Awakenings" First of all I didn't watch the show till around "Enter Macbeth" Yup, got a little behind. But I caught the rerun of the first episode and wow it blew me away. I love the animation for that one the most, at least at this momment. About Demona, I knew she wasn't dead, obviously since I started late watching, but I wanted to say even though I hadn't watched the series from the start, I think Demona wasn't shadowed enough in Xanatos' office. Kinda premature re-veiling( I think that's the right word...) of the character. (my 2 cents on that)Now I don't mind the whole " I am demona" I kind of felt "So what?" but what was great was the reddish smoke effect around her, that spiced it up nicely.

To share my personal favorite scenes would have to be Just watching Goliath was fun. He looked so cool. Keith David is just amazing. I couldn't imagine another voice for Goliath. He is a unique man (Mr. David, in my opinion) I also love the caped wings. It looks fantastic when Goliath quickly drapes his wings when he talks to the Princess and Magus about the eggs. Oooh cool! Also after Demona said "Wrong, you've lost it all," the back shot of him lifting his wings up fast to intimidate the guy on the airship before using his tail to smack him. And The whole Goliath Elisa scene where they talk while standing on the Empire state building was just priceless to me. Well my favorites are all but too endless so I'll end this here. Thanks for your time.

My quick question. Just out of curiousity,what is Officer Morgan's first name?

Cassandra writes...

Hi, Greg. Here's my own ramble of things I love about Gargoyles. I found the show my senior year of high school and was hooked. And when Fox moved the second season episodes to 6 a.m., my handy VCR timer was always set. My college roommate soon became a Gargoyles fan too. On to the elements.

The shocks and surprises: I loved the way the smaller story lines worked into the larger ones. I know you're a long ways from talking about "The Gathering" but I'm starting there, sorry. I saw/heard that Kate Mulgrew was doing both Anastasia and Titania's voice without much difference, so I knew they were one in the same. But my congratulating myself on figuring that out stopped and I almost fell out of my chair when Owen was revealed to be Puck. My best friend DID fall out of his chair when I was showing him and his wife the episode. Going back to season one, actual blood was shown when Broadway shot Elisa! In a Disney cartoon! And when I told people about this, they didn't believe me. Derek goes to work for Xanatos and is mutated for ignoring his sister's advice. Fox and Xanatos got married. I caught the "she's totally in love with him" in "Her Brother's Keeper", but I didn't expect them to get married--live together maybe.

Elisa: Thank you for creating such a great female character. Tough, smart, and still a beautiful woman. She could have de-evolved from "Awakenings" into the helpless female that the gargoyles had to rescue every week (and part of me worried that it could happen), but instead she ended up saving them as often as they saved her. And who else would have had the guts to wake King Arthur up? But she isn't a superhero. She has problems dealing with her mother and brother, she gets hurt, and she gets a little obsessive.

Intelligent bad guys: I suppose more accurately stated is bad guys with intelligent motivations. Demona has psychological hang-ups that culminate in her desire to wipe out the human race. Xanatos is just fun. How many series villians never let revenge get in their way? Plus, he had most of the best lines. My favorite: "This is my first stab at cliched villanry. How am I doing?" from "Cloud Fathers". Thailog seems to have this Oedipal need to displace Xanatos in the world.

Characters evolve: No one remained static. Demona's downward spiral was shown, but it has the potential to end by her desire to protect and love Angela. Xanatos and Fox fall in love and have a child, and apparantly learn what it means to have someone manipulate your life, something they're both a little guilty of. Macbeth realize that the gargoyles are as honorable as he is, and finds a new purpose to life. I love his debate with Margot in "The Journey". The Pack gets their upgrade. Cameo characters get stories and prove that the six degrees of seperation works in the gargoyle universe too.

References: Shakespeare's plays; Scottish history; Eygptian, Irish, Norse, Greek, African, Jewish, King Arthur mythologies, pop culture, World War II, Loch Ness, aliens, werewolves, and fae. I was waiting for vampires to show up. Okay, maybe not real vampires, but Servarius could make some. It was great to watch a show that used this stuff inside its own mythos and used it effectively.

That's just a few of the things that I loved about the show. Artwork was excellent and dialogue was wonderfully written and flawlessly performed. Here's my hope, wish, spell, prayer that GARGOYLES comes back to the air with you at the helm. And one quick question before I go find the episode rambles I've missed.

Question: Did you or do you plan on a flashback or a TimeDancer episode in which Will Shakespeare shows up as a character?

Cassandra writes...

Okay, I went back an read your rambles on the episodes (Awakenings - Her Brother's Keeper). You felt the moment when Demona revealed her name lacked punch. It did, for me at least, but not because of the scene itself. From the beginning of Awakenings, the gargoyles had a dangerous edge but Demona was the one with the least control over hers. The scene with the Trio decides to scare the peasants, I knew they were "just picking" (even though it was picking that could have gotten dangerously out of hand). But Demona acted like if she could have found an excuse to rip the throat out of Tom's mother, she would have. By Awakenings Part 5, it's chillingly apparant just how ruthless and demonic Demona has become. Besides, it's a great twist on Goliath's earlier name of affection/endearment, Angel of the Night. Angel=light, darkness=night, demon=fallen angel=darkness=night. The scene became one of those moments when everything felt RIGHT. Of course, what else could you name her? moment. The question was just how long ago was she given the name.

When I first saw the expression on Demona's face when she and Goliath reunited in 1994, I sat up. Yeah, she was glad to see Goliath but she was angry too. My thought first seeing it was "Poor Goliath, nothing good is going to come from this." Looking back now, knowing Demona's history, I have to ask did she read the Magus's version of events from the Grimorum? If the Magus recorded things fairly accurately, then she had to realize that Goliath chose suicide instead of trying to raise the eggs alone. If he had stayed with the eggs, she would have returned with a story Goliath would have swallowed and they could have raised the eggs together. She never would have created the Hunter, she never would have met Macbeth, she never would have made the deal with the Weird Sisters, she would have died centuries ago. And in that moment of reuniting, Demona blames Goliath for all of it. She buries it quickly cause she wants to give him a chance to realize why her way is the only way, but it still there. Wow, all that from one line of dialogue.

There's my feedback for the day. Caio.

Ed writes...

'REAWAKENING' comments.

At the time of writing, you haven't commented on this yet, but while I'm talking about the first season I ought to finish speaking about it.

And the big thing I remember about it is - I didn't like it.

Coldstone just doesn't appeal to me. I don't think any of his personalities are *that* fascinating, and the "it's alive!" line makes me wince all the time. Xanatos and Demona are just stock villains and don't show much of the individuality that is so evident in later episodes.

There are a few nice bits. The scene as Goliath is drowning. Goliath's vow to protect. The rounded section with that thief.

But all things considered, I wasn't that impressed.

It didn't matter; the first time I saw this, there was an advert for 'CITY OF STONE' on the next week with 2 back-to-back episodes for 2 weeks. In hindsight, this ruined two brilliant cliffhangers, but then I was gorging myself for CoS anyway from seeing teaser pictures of Demona blasting away stone humans.

Ed writes...

'HER BROTHER'S KEEPER' comments.

I've always loved 'DEADLY FORCE' but every time I watch this I like it more. Derek is just such a brilliant character! He's got a great stubborn attitude mixed with ambition and a wish to be supported. And Xanatos is so smooth!

"Yeah, use the force Lex!" was just one of those all-time classic lines that got me rolling around laughing. This being the case, I only noticed when watching it again how silly the helicopter repair thing seemed.

I'd already seen 'THE GATHERING PART ONE' (but annoyingly, not part 2!) when I saw this so the revelation that Fox loved Xanatos was hardly a big surprise to me. Still, Fox's self-assured scheming attitude always delights me. The prison scene that I always loved was in 'THRILL OF THE HUNT' - one of those eyebrow raising moments when you realise that this is a bit different from 'Ducktales' and 'Turtles'.

And the snow is breathtaking. I also like the ambiguity of the ending. It's magical. Fantastic stuff.

Ed writes...

'ENTER MACBETH' comments

This is a glorious episode. I suppose I can see why you don't like the animation, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as you make out. Of course, I didn't see it before you cut it.

This is one of the episodes that I remember my first reactions to quite well. Firstly, I had no idea that this was the same Macbeth that Shakespeare wrote about. I thought it was some mercenary that had the name because it sounded cool or something. It was only when 'CITY OF STONE' aired that I realised that he was the same as the king.

Kenner should have had a field day finding ways to build a Macbeth mansion with all those traps. The Hall of Mirrors was especially cool.

I never really considered the implications of Macbeth's claim that he named Demona. I remember being quite startled, but it still never made me think in the slightest that he was the Shakespearian Macbeth - he could have given her that name in the 1980s.

I love the Goliath and Elisa arguments here. Rather than have the fact that they really love each other be painted all over the shop, and have the two get on like a house on fire, this story has them arguing. It's not the only one. It's just gorgeous.

I also liked the credits at the beginning. It might be a small touch, but it always seemed so much more 'grown-up' than having them hidden at the end. Just like the "previously on Gargoyles..." section, it was one of those little touches that said: "look! This is different!"

A lovely episode.

Ed writes...

'DEADLY FORCE' comments

This is my favourite episode of the first season. It's thoroughly gorgeous.

One, I like Dracon. Glasses is nifty too.
Two, I like Elisa. The real human Elisa that is, not just the side that larks around with gargoyles all night.
Three, I like Broadway. I didn't do that much originally, but I certainly do now.

But there's so much more that's cool here. Elisa in the hospital, the subtle introduction of her family, the gun moral...

I actually never noticed - or at least don't remember - the blood. I might have been aware that it was there, but I can remember the scene quite clearly and don't really remember the blood. That wasn't what hit me. There was a brilliant impact from seeing her 'dead'.

It was lovely to see Matt in there too. Great stuff.

Ed writes...

'THRILL OF THE HUNT' comments.

Hi there, Greg. I'll be a bit behind everyone else with these comments I'm afraid. Should I put episode comments in separate posts if I talk about separate episodes? I'll do it just to be on the safe side.

Anyway, I like this episode a lot. It gives us the best view of Lexington's personality of the 66 (or indeed, 78), and I like the Pack here. Actually, the Pack appeal to me more here than in most of their subsequent outings. The predator/prey irony is very appealing, but the 'Evil Ninjas' amused me too. I wonder what happened to all those guys?

I never understood why this was listed under your list of dodgy animation anyway, really. Goliath was especially well-drawn throughout.

Loved Billy and Susan. The injustice is immensely frustrating to me, which of course is what makes it so great.

Incidentally, the first scene was nifty too. I'm not sure what about it appeals to me so much; maybe the great drawing, maybe the 'calm before the storm' tone, or maybe it's just because it's got Owen looking so... Owen. But it always sticks in my mind.

Pity that the last time I watched it (about a year ago), I pressed the wrong button after I wound it back and taped over this and most of 'TEMPTATION' before I realise what I'd done. Humbug. (It also took me forever to tape in the first place; Disney Channel UK ran through the whole series but played 'LONG WAY TO MORNING' twice in the proper spot and instead of 'THRILL OF THE HUNT'. Seems like it's one of those doomed episodes for me... not as doomed as 'MONSTERS' which I tried three times and had a disaster each time, but...

Demona Taina writes...

Me again!

I just realized that I had to thank you for those ramblings. :) I mean, I never thought of those episodes that way before, and now that you're explaining them, it all makes sense now. :) Thank you again, Greg, not only did you make one of the best shows there has ever been, but you've opened our minds. I mean, you've inspired us. Some fans have become great artists, some great writers, and some you've simply changed their lives! Like me! I'm a completely different person! And all because of the defenders of the night! I'll thank you always, I'm sure other fans will thank you too. :)

I'm looking forward to the rest of the ramblings. :) Thank you!

Jackal's Love writes...

Her Brother's Keeper:

This is one of the episodes that I watch the tape of frequently. Probably because it has some focus on Jackal and Hyena interacting, and such beautiful animation. Little details of the J&H converasation at the diamond exchange stood out to me, like the way Hyena kicks Jackal, then smiles at him, and the contrast between the two. "What's to keep us from just grabbing it and shooting our way free?" "Style, dear sister, style."

I always noticed that those two seemed to have a big thing for knives. Always whipping them at someone. Although I am curious about where Hyena had been hiding the knife at the Exchange. Her dress didn't seem very ideal for concealing weaponry.

Nichelle Nichols did the diamond exchange saleslady's voice. Eep. Forget the villains, that woman was terrifying :-)

I also noticed the irony about Jackal & Hyena, the bad guys of the episode, getting along better than the good guys are. They may be nut cases, but at least they're compatible. It seems that they have more fun with their fighting than anything else.

"Any landing you can walk away from." Doesn't Xanatos say also say that in 'City of Stone'? It's one of the quotes from Gargoyles that I remebered even after I hadn't seen the show for four years, along with "What's the matter, never seen a cybernetic jackal before?" and "I trust you about as far as I can throw you."

Hyena's smile at the end is a really intruiging moment. I love the animation there. I had it as my computer background for months, the bonus being that it scared my friends.

Anyway, thank you for your time.