Maria writes...

Hey Greg!!
Um, I have a question about doing my own kind of gargoyles story. But I want to make sure that the characters I'm thinking up don't mix too much with Disney and what you came up with. Is there a way I can email you, or you email me, so I can maybe get some interesting ideas or even some council? This is something I would like to do as maybe a comic book series or something. Or maybe just a book series with a lot of illustrations. Kind of like a teen book, or even an adult book or something. But without the unnecessary adult material which I consider sacred and unneeded in todays hideously over-rated Hollywood. It's so hard to see movies these days because there aren't any good ones to see.
Anyway, my email is Marie Destine@aol.com. I'm not sure at this point if there is anythin at all that I will be able to do. This is just an idea at pressent that I want to explore and hopefully make a reality. So, if there's anything more you need to know about the ideas I have so far, or wouldn't mind giving me some tips I would appreciate it. I just figured I should ask you what is the best course to take because you are in the business and I thought that you might be the best person to ask.
So anyway, any help you could give would be great.
Thanks in advance!! ^_^

Kayless writes...

Hey there Greg.

I was thinking of posting a guess for the contest but then I thought: Why pour gasoline on a burning house? You know, this new contest reminds me of a Simpson's episode where Apu hides a snake in the Quick-E-Mart on Whacking Day as a marketing ploy. The first one to whack the serpent gets a free Squishy. Unfortunately the participants search for the snake by knocking over counters, flinging food, and smashing products. Apu sighs after giving up on telling them to control themselves and says, 'I really should have put more thought into this.'

I still need sleep…

Todd Jensen writes...

Another "more-musing-than-question" comment here. In "M.I.A.", when Leo and Una are urging Griff not to take part in the Battle of Britain, saying that "the Nazis are a human problem", Goliath replies that "in my experience, human problems become gargoyle problems."

What I found interesting about this remark is that, in fact, the origins of the "gargoyle problems" in the series do bear out the truth of Goliath's remark.

1. The Wyvern Massacre of 994. Arose in part from an attack on the castle by Hakon and his Vikings, who were initially doing so for the plunder (and Hakon at first didn't even believe that there were actual gargoyles living there).

2. The flight of the eggs to Avalon in 995. Arose from Constantine murdering Kenneth II and wanting to marry Katharine to strengthen his claim to the Scottish throne that he'd just usurped.

3. The troubles that Demona and her clan underwent at the hands of the Hunters in the 11th century. Stemmed partly from Gillecomgain's personal vendetta from Demona (which was essentially a gargoyle problem), but also from Duncan and Canmore's feud with Clan Moray over the succession to the Scottish throne (definitely a human problem).

4. Goliath's modern-day adventures in "Awakening". Ultimately stemmed from a human problem (Xanatos wanting to conduct a raid on Cyberbiotics to steal its research).

5. The Quarryman threat from "The Journey" onwards. While based in part on the public's fear of the gargoyles, as far as Castaway is concerned, it's ultimately really based on a human problem (Castaway's unadmitted guilt over shooting and maiming his brother, which he blames the gargoyles for).

(Not to mention that the evidence in "Once Upon A Time There Were Three Brothers" shows how the feud between two rival Scottish houses over the throne in the years leading up to 971 wound up drawing in the Wyvern clan).

So I'd have to agree with Goliath on that one; a very accurate statement on how the gargoyle race isn't an island.

Aris Katsaris writes...

<glances at Adam and says nothing> :-)

Okay, moving on to other things. I had said:
--"Let me just paraphrase a sentence of Terry Pratchett: "All things are true, for a given value of 'truth'."

and you said:
--"Who's Terry Pratchett?"

and I say:
*Shame* on you! :-)

Anyway, Terry Pratchett is a (British) writer of humorous fantasy, probably the best of the lot. His most famous work is the "Discworld" series of books... It ranges from the silly/trivial ('Colour of Magic','Eric') all the way to the deep and serious ('Small Gods', perhaps 'Hogfather') sometimes even venturing into the dark and creepy ('Soul Music', 'Carpe Jugulum')

The early books ('Colour of Magic' 'Light Fantastic') weren't *that* great so I usually recommend 'Small Gods' to beginners, which is also the book I started with - it isn't just a good book but it's also a story with none of the recurring characters of the series so one won't get confused at all.

But perhaps (given the Gargoyles series) a better recommendation would be "Wyrd Sisters" (a humorous take on 'Hamlet'/'Macbeth' and Shakespeare in general). Also its 'sequel', "Lords and Ladies", parodying in part Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream".... Great book...

My all-time favourite Discworld book is perhaps "Hogfather". Featuring Death, Death's grandaughter Susan, Auditors of Reality, Santa Claus, a brilliant assassin with the mind of a child, a stupid thug with the mind of a child, the oh god of hangovers, tooth fairies, the first bogeyman *ever*, and also the monster under your bed. A book about the magic (aka 'real terror') of childhood. :-)

That books is also the reason that I know that Santa Claus can be handled in a very serious manner - and "Hogfather"'s utilisation of him is as serious as one can get... I actually have more respect for the big guy now.. :-)

Okay that was a ramble - sorry about that. To finish, I'll just say i've heard than in America Pratchett may be better known because of his co-writing the book "Good Omens" with Neil Gaiman...

puck40 writes...

dear god.... its been what? a week if that? I have no sense of time anymore. erhmm... go Greg! good god, I mean good job with the contest! o.O; hoping to get it done in tie for G2001. <falls over laughing> 9.9; so erhm. I'm going to ask a question in next post. This one its just. Good job and dear god... good luck answering these things <if the contest isn't *over* by the time my post hits>.

Ed writes...

Hi Greg.

I like the shape of the future you've built, or as far as I can see it. Obviously you won't answer anything on it at the moment, but I'm particularly interested to find out what the other clans are up to. And Coyote-X sounds great. I just hope the Space Spawn aren't the sort to gurgle in their throats or shout, "prepare to die, earthlings!" or something.

As for the large amount of guesses already filled - I still think the last ones will take a long time. Especially since some of them seem to be names that I don't know if we can guess. 233-253 and 306-339 look particularly tough.

Todd Jensen writes...

One thing that I was thinking about the events in "The Gathering". Many Gargoyles fans, including myself, didn't approve of Oberon and Titania's attempt to kidnap Alexander, even if it was for the sake of allowing him to achieve his magical potential. But one thing that I recently considered is that their abduction attempt may have been a blessing for the gargoyles, if a disguised one at first.

After all, one of the major results of the whole kidnapping attempt was that Xanatos ended his feud with the gargoyles, and gave them shelter at Castle Wyvern after the Canmores blew up the clock tower and exposed the clan's existence to the world. If he'd still been at odds with them, I doubt that he'd have done that (or at least, not under as generous terms for the clan); at best, in the aftermath of "Hunter's Moon", the gargoyles would have been reduced to his pawns (just as he'd wanted them to be when he first awakened them), and at worst, they'd be homeless and all but defenceless, most likely to wind up dead or in captivity. I doubt that Titania was anticipating the Hunters' actions a few episodes later when she tried to kidnap Alex, but I can't help but suspect that it saved the gargoyles' life at St. Damien's Cathedral.

Todd Jensen writes...

One thought that I had about your remark that Goliath isn't likely to tell anybody about the details of that "Future Tense" nightmare that Puck gave him; I think that it's a good thing, myself. I'm not sure that it would be that advisable to let the rest of the clan know about Lexington being a traitor in "Future Tense", and I'm definitely certain that it would be a bad idea to let Brooklyn know about the "mated to Demona" business (especially where Owen is concerned :)

puck40 writes...

Hey Greg

Comment about Terry Pratchet. :)
Just find any one of those Discworld books and read the first couple pages. If your not hooked into it by the first or second page... well like thats possible. hee hee
ja!

Maria writes...

Another silly Question from Silly Maria: ^_^
Why is 'adopting' for Goliath and Elisa more convenient?
I obviously have a very different thinking pattern. I guess I feel that if someone really loved someone else they would be willing to make some sort of change. So that's why I find it hard to believe that Elisa or Goliath can't make a magical change or something. In my mind, just because you change your form doesn't necessarily mean you are changing who you are. It can change a PART of who you are, but it doesn't change everything about you. You are who you are inside. And that includes your SOUL. Your soul is who you are. That's why we are able to differentiate between right and wrong because GOD gave us that gift. We just abuse it sometimes or ignore it, because we are down here on earth to learn. And from circumstance and learning different behaviors, we sometimes become what we were not in the beginning.
So, why would it be so inconvienient? (Bad spelling. . . :P) I mean, I am probably WAY off base. But that's just the way I feel . . . if that's all right.

I guess the problem for us Goliath and Elisa fans is we REALLY want Goliath and Elisa to have a child. Yet, contradictorally, we understand that ethnically, it would be impossible. And yet we hope for a miracle. I guess in my frame of mind, seeing them raise a family of their own would be like some kind of resolution. Strange, isn't it?
Anyway, enough of my rediculous ramblings. I probably don't make any sense - though I try to. It's just hard sometimes to put my thoughts into words. And they don't always come out the way I want them too. So for that I apologize. A hard life has let my communication skills go to par. ^_^!
Well, if that wasn't too - ridiculous - I'll take off now. TTFn. Ta Ta For Now!! :)

Skylar writes...

Hi Folks!
Just a little comment for those who might wonder about the date of my last posting: It might seem wrong, but firstly at my watch it´s really already about an hour after mightnight (there might be some hours time difference between the locations) and so my posting made a little time-travel and landed yesterday ;) - but secondly I guess it will already be also for Greg at least the 28. September when he reads or answers it. (And birthday greeting cards also often come a little time too early. It´s normal.)

Greetings ;))

- Skylar

Fire Storm writes...

Hi Greg! I am a long time reader and a first time poster! :)
I know you probally don't remember me, but I was in the late night G98 chat.

Bonnieway...

No real questions this time, so I hope you don't mind if I jump between two topics.

Gargoyles: 2198
You asked for it! 200K+ of responses in less than 24 hours!

A few times you mentioned that the powers to be were afraid (or maybe you were) that Gargoyles would be too much like Batman: TAS
But I have seen an episode that had WAY too many parallels to Gargoyles (It was made well after even 'The GOliath Cronicles' aired)

Basicailly, Jeff Bennet played a crazy character. It has been a while since I saw that episode, but two parts stick out in my mind:
In one part, a angel statue drops on Bennet's character, it's head pop's off and he sticks his head up where the statue's head would have been.

AND in a second part, a castle parade float manages to fly through the air and land on top of a pile of garbage. I even think there was fog below the castle...

Anyway, the episode was VERY funny!

OH, and I think that the Star Trek: Voyager writers threw in something about her Gargoyles character. She said something (to a holodeck character) to the feel of 'Do you think i am the queen of the faries?'

Well, have fun, take care, and see you in LA!

Kelly L Creighton / Kya White Sapphire writes...

sorry about the fact that im about to post several times, but im dividing up my rants, as per your request ^_^

re: gay/lesbian gargs
it depends on what culture. in ancient greece, being gay was perfectly normal. you only got ridiculed for being the "feminie" side of the gay relationship. the "masculine" side was just as accepted as heterosexuality.

The Mighty Thor writes...

Hey just a question that i was thinking about
Why?
With all the talk of starwars (don't worry this question ain't about SW) it made me think, well we all love the original SW-tri. just like we love the 66eps of Gargoyles for us fans it's like a part of culture, well for me it is, and I have read the SW books 80+ and, well SW isn't the same I don't like the idea that Luke, Han, and Leia will grow old and die, latter in the books Chewie dies!!! For some reason I don't want the same thing to happen to Goliath and the trio and Elisa, don't get me wrong but in order to do all this continuing of the story our original cast is gonna grow old and die, personaly I'm glad that the show was stoped, not cuz it was bad, but because it was one of my favorite shows and had great characters and everything, and I don't want to SEE it die.
This probably sounds like sacrliage but I just thought I'd speak my mind. Thanks for your time.

Todd Jensen writes...

One thing that puzzled me in the "Guidelines for Villains" document that you posted just now. When it gave a list of the kind of "silly Batman villains" to avoid, it included Mr. Freeze on the list, alongside the Penguin and the Riddler. Now, the latter two, I can see as "silly", from what I know of them - but Mr. Freeze as portrayed in "Batman:TAS" (which is, admittedly, the only interpretation of the character that I'm familiar with) didn't strike me as silly at all. He seemed more like an effectively tragic figure, a man trapped forever in eternal cold, shut out from warmth and aware of his plight, and wanting vengeance upon the hypocritical businessman who had put him in this condition - with the additional element of his grief over his forever being parted from his wife Nora. I'm at a loss as to how such a figure can be considered "silly" - and can only assume that you must have had a different interpretation of Mr. Freeze in some other "Batman" medium. (Since, as I said, I don't know how he was portrayed outside of "Batman:TAS", it's quite possible).

Razor Dog writes...

Hello, Greg.

Here's my question. Are there any Gargoyles CDs or soundtracks available? It seems that soundtracks for videogames and animated series are just too impossible to find in the U.S. Over in Japan, it's as easy as pie to find CDs for such genres.

Anyway, I love your work and it's a shame the series got cancelled. I was so jaded to find that The Goliath Chronicles croaked and I almost cried, I really did. Gargoyles was the one of the VERY last cartoon series I actually LOVED before I got sucked into the world of anime (mostly Dragon Ball Z). Thanx for all the memories your series gave me to cherish and good luck on the next series- I'm looking forward to it :)

Todd Jensen writes...

Another note on the "Brainstorming Villains" document: I do find it rather intriguing that a rejected name for Goliath would be "Griffin", in view of the later addition of Griff into the series. So people on the project already knew of the connection between gargoyles and griffons, then?

Todd Jensen writes...

I read your document on the three "proposed and rejected" villains for "Gargoyles" - Mortify, Lichen, and Val Starch - and have to agree that they were "underwhelming", as you put it (although given that, as you also point out, they were the result of not too many people at Disney having experience with the animated action-drama genre at this time, I don't think that one should be too hard on the chap who designed them). The thing that really stands out about this trio to me, actually, is that I'd be hard-pressed to work out how they could serve as suitable thematic adversaries to a medieval gargoyle awakened in New York; they could fit nicely against a purely modern-day super-hero of the conventional sort, but don't strike me as being as appropriate to pit against Goliath as the antagonists who did make it into the series were. (Well, maybe Lichen as a fellow "monster", and Mortify's journalistic background could cause some problems, the way that in the actual series, "Jon Carter"'s report for WVRN did in "Hunter's Moon Part Three", but on the whole, it's more of a stretch than the "finished product" antagonists).

puck<40> writes...

Greg responds...

I once read a Star Wars novel right after the original movie came out. It stank. Kinda turned me off that whole thing.

But you never know.

;-; you read Splinter of the Minds eye? huff. See when I read this trilogy of books it turned me *onto* the other books. Timothy Zahn is really a great writer. And turned me on so much so that I read through so many of the bad ones... including "splinter" <which was released shortly after the movie, pure crap>. Occasionally I try to make my way through another one here and there..... But everything pales. PALES!!!!!! ~taunts all the star wars fans who disagree~ sheep!!!! can't any of these so called hardcore fans see that a BIG MACHINE OF DEATH is kinda boring? book after book.... ;-; so depressing. But This trilogy.... MWAHAHAHH. 9.9; sorry

erhm, heheh. ^.^ anyways.... ~wavies the books in front of Greg~ If I managed to send these.... or not even these. Just the first one to Jen, would you consider reading it? "Heir to the Empire". Made the best seeeelllleeeerrrssss list. =) Hit number oooooonnnneeee. read the reviews online of it if my sales pitch didn't sell it.

and forget about the rest of the books. <a couple short stories are superb here and there but mostly they're blah>

running off now, spanish homework to do.

Kelly Leigh Creighton / Kya White Sapphire writes...

Sam asked "I was just curious, biologically, how old was everyone in the mini clan back in 1996? Thanks alot!"

yes, the MiniClan is an internet-based fan-clan. The majority of the clan is around the same age. in 1996 most of us were 15/16, with a few ranging off in each direction. that means most of us are around 19/20/21 now. but truely, the ages range from probably 5-50 or so ^_^

Kayless writes...

Some of your posts indicate that you're a Highlander fan, or at least are familiar with the original movie and some of the T.V. series. I was wondering if you'd seen Highlander: Endgame yet. While not as good as the original, it was easily the best of the sequels, taking the best from the show and first movie and combining them into a poignant package. I went into this movie with a sense of despair (understandable, due to the last two big screen fiascos) and came out pleasantly surprised. The battle choreographing was topnotch too, on par with The Matrix and The Phantom Menace. Overall I consider seeing Highlander: Endgame a good use of an afternoon.

puck40 writes...

among my gargoyle interests I fell in love with Star Wars for a while. And erhm... just gonna post my comment on that whole Phantom Menace bit. lalala.

There was this book trilogy that came out "Heir to the Empire", "Dark Force Rising", and "The Last Command". It took place 5 years after Return of the Jedi. Whole bunch of books released. And among any of these... technically non-canon books, these kicked ass! (a lot of them sucked) So if you just wanna make-believe that Mr. Lucas formally accepts them <he's all like "you can write them but they're not technically continuity" and why? for the money of course, so if he makes money, i say its all good>, it means there is something better than Return of the Jedi. So Phantom Menace is seeable!

sort of.... the movie sucked. I mean the action sequences were crisp, but the acting... god help us. Character development... sigh... So umm... if the next movie gets good reviews, maybe you'd consider reading those three kickass books which would be a little like a.... "what happened after Jedi bit", and see the movie?

Timothy Zahn is the author, and how he writes those books are truly brilliant. I found them more enticing than the original trilogy actually. And do you know why they were so good? full blown character development... and the villian! oh my god so ingeniously cool. I'd give a little more description cept this post is getting long already and don't even know if your interested.

and if you do read the books... be careful. Because out of that whole series as a whole, some really suck.

later Greg!

Brian writes...

I was reading some questions and people mentioned that the toon disney episodes were edited. I knew they got rid of deadly force but a never heard about this! Do you where there is a list of the edits so I can see what I'm missing?
Also, I can't belive they only show one episode a day now. At least they do it twice.

Todd Jensen writes...

I recently realized that there is a certain similarity between the Sidero/Xavier team-up in the original comedy version of "Gargoyles" and the Hakon/Wolf team-up in "Vendettas". In both cases, a couple of villains team up against the gargoyles, one an original enemy of theirs from the Middle Ages, surviving on only as a ghost, the other a modern-day descendant of that medieval enemy who is scorned by his medieval ancestor for being too "poor-quality". Was the Sidero/Xavier team-up the distant inspiration for the Hakon/Wolf team-up?

Aris Katsaris writes...

Lexy> <<You mentioned that Sora was going to be one of the females included in the Manhattan Rookery>>

Actually Greg didn't...

Ambrosia writes...

*glances through questions being submitted*
Whoa.
I had no idea I was going to stir up so much controversy just mentioning the Phantom Menace. I too thought Mary Mack's sending *you*, someone who had just blatantly said that he had not seen this movie, a post full of spoilers was very distasteful.
I can't argue whether it was a good movie or not because that's a matter of opinion. Like I said before, I like *everything* so my opinions are always somewhat fluffy. I have yet to find a story that's a total waste. I have too much respect for people like you who put these things together (Cartoons, movies, stuff).
Where was I going with this? *checks map* Oh, yeah. Well, should you *ever* choose to see Phantom Menace, attempt to put aside the biases we've all thrown at you and enjoy or don't enjoy. Whichever.

Kelly Leigh Creighton / Kya White Sapphire writes...

i just read your latest answeres and felt like pointing something out:

since i was about five years old ive been creating alternate characters for myself. i had read the name Siobhan in a book and liked it so much that one of my characters used that name. i just thought it was cool that youve thought of using that name too. *shrug* not a big thing, but i wanted to ramble ^_^

Siren writes...

I was wondering, since is is now available to rent on VHS/DVD, have you seen Princess Mononoke? It was a wonderful movie! Keith David did the voice of the leader of the Boar Clan...damned if I can remember the name. Did an excellent job too...But I can't help imagining that was Goliath, even sounded like some things Goliath might say at one point or another. He is also the narrator as well, at the beginning. If ya haven't seen it and do see it later, could you please post what ya think about it? I like your opinons on the other movies you saw (ex: Titan A.E., Jurassic Park, etc) Thanks so much!

Nemi writes...

*TWACK!s herself on the head.*

I just remebered and I keep on forgeting.

I meant ot tell you a while ago but as I said I forgot.

Anyways, short but true story:

School made us enter a poetry contest.
I was among the Winners.
Result It gets Published and I lose all rights to the poem (I didn't even get a discount on the book!)

Relavance: Said Poem was inspired by Gargoyles, Macbeth's plight of living forever in patcular. (I had just seen the ep where he was dressed as the hunter and trying to end it all)

Anthology of Poety by Young Americans, 2000 eedition, page tem, the long one, by Rachel Lindenberg.

-Nemi, who is weird and forgetful

Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...

I am terribly sorry about this, but for once I haven't read everything posted to the "waiting to be asked" page before posting this. Although I did do a quick scan. I am tying up my brother's line when he has the good grace to give me indefinite lone of his couch to save me from a monster commute. Of course if no one has asked yet, I am terribly sorry to have admitted that I haven't followed the rules:}

You just [9/5/00] posted: Intern Ideas

"Continuing our reprinting of old documents from the Gargoyles Development File.

This one was written by Regina Dixon, who was a college intern working at Disney TV Animation for the summer. Refer to previously posted documents to see what she was basing these ideas comedy springboards on.

I hate to say it, but in hindsight this seems like busy work to me. We hadn't even sold the show. We were a long way from needing story ideas. Still, I suppose it was good practice."

Is this complete? I have been keeping rather current and I don't remember specific episode ideas in the posting of old stuff.

As long as I am touching on my fear of missing anything.. you mentioned a chat on the 1rst of September (I think). Do you know if there is a transcript that can be posted? Or, Hi Gore! does Gore?

Goliath_994 (aka Michael Norton writes...

Greg, I was in the adult chat the night VP got you and most everybody else upset. I agree with your ramble on the subject 100%. I did not care much for VP's attitude, but what he said made a lot of sense. I didn't jump in and defend the guy because I really didn't want to alienate myself from the rest of fandom or offend you. But the more I thought about it the more I regretted not speaking up and am very happy with what you have said about the subject. At the time of the chat I was thinking things like "What if Frank Paur had other, conflicting ideas, why wouldn't they be considered canon?". Or "What if Disney had other ideas? They do own the show". I don't mean any offense by those statements, but they did go through my mind. That said, I really appreciate the time you spend answering my questions and certainly consider you the top authority on anything Gargoyles related. I hope and pray that Gargs gets back on the air and that you are the creative force behind it.

Aris Katsaris writes...

Tana> Well JRR Tolkien didn't exactly say that what he was writing was fact. More that (like Greg) he seemed to not be inventing, but rather delving into a subcreation - a universe that had some reality of its own, so that instead of inventing he just had to wait until he could see what had 'really' happened...

Todd Jensen writes...

A little comment-ramble-reply to your latest ramble (on whether your ideas for the Master Plan count as fanfic or not).

I certainly agree with you that it isn't really official or canon until it reaches the television screen (or whatever Disney's official medium for "Gargoyles" becomes next, when and if it returns). In fact, we've seen evidence enough already that things may get changed in the process of actually creating the stories (witness the exec who suggested that Goliath ask the Magus to place the "sleep until the castle rises above the clouds" spell upon him, rather than having the Magus make the offer first). But all the same, I do find myself leaning more towards your version of things - not just because you said them, but often because they simply make the most amount of sense to me.

One example that I will give here is the "Jon Canmore = Castaway" idea, which you had in mind in writing "The Journey", but which "The Goliath Chronicles" didn't pick up on, making Castaway just some villainous businessman after the gargoyles for no apparent reason other than "motiveless malignity". I believe in Castaway and Jon Canmore being the same, not just because you said so, but because it makes more sense to me that way. For one thing, it gives a good explanation for why Castaway acts the way that he does in "The Journey", his reason for hating the gargoyles so much and wanting to ruthlessly kill Goliath; take away the "He's really Jon Canmore" bit, as your successors at The Goliath Chronicles did, and he becomes more of an unsolvable mystery. Also, I noticed a few clues to that in "The Journey" - his name, for example (the moment that I heard the name "Castaway" the first time that I watched "The Journey", I automatically thought of the Canmores, since they'd used surnames beginning with hard C's throughout "Hunter's Moon" for their aliases), and also the fact that, if you look closely enough at his Quarryman badge, you can see the three red scratches of the Hunter protruding from beneath it. But at any rate, I do feel that, even without your own words, the notion that Castaway is really Jon makes the most convincing explanation for him.

zippysquir@aol.com writes...

Justa word of caution concerning Mary Mack's summary of The Phantom Menace: some people don't know how to enjoy a movie.
Basically, she wanted the movie equivalent of this: "Take everything you had planned for all 65/66 episodes of Gargoyles and make just ONE episode."

These idiots exist everywhere; beware of them. Bad advice can be the killer.

Watch the movie, forget any opinions but your own, and realize the following Darth Maul created with just ten minutes of screen time.

P.S. Luke Skywalker got a medal for blowing up the Death Star and killing somewhere in the neighboorhood of a million people who were just doing their job.

Aris Katsaris writes...

Btw, LSZ's "Zeroth" was a reference to some of Isaac Asimov's novels - mainly "Robots and Empire" if I remember correctly where the Zeroth Law comes to be added to the first Three Laws of Robotics. I assume you haven't read it? :-)

Blaise writes...

Gotta say, I LOVE reading these early documents of GARGOYLES.

I was rather surprised that Amp had originally been two separate characters (Nick and Trouble), and that there was a second precursor to Lexington (Campbell, I think it was).
I was also surprised to find that Dakota's own precursor, Georgette was not originally the leader, but instead the "should-be-leader" character. You had mentioned that the reason you changed Dakota to Demona was that she was too bland and uninteresting to be the leader of a comic team. Why was she made the full leader when the cast was slimmed? Do you think her more "serious" character would have worked in the original role of Georgette?

Human-wise: I never even suspected the inclusion of Sidero, though it sounds like it could have made for some fun conversations. Xavier sounds every bit as Igthorn-ish as I imagined him to be (I don't know why, but just from your original description of him, I thought of Igthorn). And already, Morgan has gone through THREE changes of profession--before she was named she was a lab person working for Xavier, then she became a curator, and finally an archeologist. Actually, after that, she became BOTH of the latter. This woman just wanted to be everything, didn't she?

Owen...I can't help but smile at the image of an aardvark plunking away at a computer or hitting on a woman.

I have always been interested in how you guys originally developed the series. I remember asking the question of the comedic counter-parts of the characters way back when ASK GREG first went on-line. Now I'm learning more of it than I ever dreamed existed.

Thanks. I mean it.

Todd Jensen writes...

Oh, and thank you for the "Owen as an aardvark" memo (this is one part of the original comedy development that I especially rememebered - I once mentioned it in a Gargoyles newsgroup, in fact - and promptly sent one of the other members into shock over it). It was interesting getting to see the "original draft" character descriptions for Elisa, Owen, and Xanatos (as Morgan, Owen, and Xavier).

And yep, I've got to agree with you that Xavier would have been annoying in a serious drama as a major villain, but works nicely as the main villain of a comedy series (just like Duke Igthorne, whom I recall quite well).

Kelly L Creighton / Kya White Sapphire writes...

ramble:

morgan and dakota as good buddies? o.O ahh?

seriously- thanx for all the pre-gargs info. i love to see what the show evolved from, and laugh at all the close calls ^_^ i still cant get over the pic of RALPH from g2k. oh my GHOD. the show wouldnt have gotten the respect that it did, and the following, if it had stayed in the gummy bears phase. im sure of it. (no offense, but gummybears didnt have that following, and i dont think gargs would have either)

*gets off her soap box* ^_-

Aris Katsaris writes...

To Duncan Devlin who said: "I don't quite understand the response. From my experience, not ALL things are true."

Let me just paraphrase a sentence of Terry Pratchett: "All things are true, for a given value of 'true' "

Dracolich writes...

By the time you read this, you will probably have the answer, but just in case:

A poster has been asking you questions about the "connection" of the fey. I beleive what he or she is referring to is what powers or forces they are associated with. Example: Aphrodite, love. Seth(or Set), storms and evil. I hope this helps. See 'ya again! P.S. I'm shortening my name.

Entity writes...

Hi,

I'd just like to back Mary Mack's summary/review of The Phantom Menace. It was everything she described it as.

I'd also like to voice my pleasure at the sight of Wrath of Khan in your list of favorite movies. It's in mine, too, but most of the time that film seems to get jipped. Either the person's someone who has an inexplicable (and I venture to say shallow) distaste for Star Trek, or they'd rather claim First Contact as the hands-down best film, ignoring the originals.

Incidentally, I thought First Contact was a travesty. Maybe think "First Knight" for Arthurian Legend, to get an idea.

Kelly L Creighton / Kya White Sapphire writes...

*reads your post about needing a tape recording of her voice* well, i work at an 800 number. ill send it to gorebash, and you can feel free to call me any time. ^_^ im the receptionist, so unless im at lunch (generally between 11:45 and 12:45 eastern) ill be the one to answer the phone!

Matthew Smith writes...

hey Greg, what's up? Well, this isn't really a Gargoyle related question, it's more about one of the movies you mention being one of your favorites: Ghostbusters. That is one of my all time favorite movies. I see you didn't seem to like the sequel. I rather enjoyed GB2, heck I bought both movies last weekend, but I guess i can see why you didn't like it. I mean walking Statue of Liberty, "Mood Slime" that responded to good/bad vibes...ect...
My passion for Ghostbusters goes back to my when I was 5. Oh I remember religiously watching "The Real Ghostbusters" every day before kindergarten. Me and my brother used to dress up in old pyjammas, which our mother altered to have the Ghostbuster logo on the shoulders, and would run around the neighbourhood pretending to "bust" ghosts.
Anyway, back to the movie. My mother must have hated that movie with a passion, simply because it was the only thing we'd rent whenever we'd go to our grand-parents house (who had a VCR when we didn't) must have seen the movie like 60 times back then, and that was before I could appreaciate the witty humor, let alone understand the plot.
Last year, I watched the movie for the first time in about 10 years. I never realized excactly how clever of a movie it was. It was hillarious, yet not off the wall not to be taken seriously. Even the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man provided a serious enough threat.
Come to think of it, this actually is a Gargoyles question. Gozer's Terror Dogs, the one's who possessed Dana and Louis reminded me an awful lot of Bronx. Did this in anyway inspire you to create the Gargoyle Beasts? Also, the Terror Dogs came to life by breaking out out of it's stone shell, much like the way Gargoyles do. Is this simply a coincidence? I remember you stating that your inspirations for Gargoyles were Gummi Bears, actual stone gargoyles, Hill Street Blues. But is it possible that Ghostbusters is among one of the inspirations for Gargoyles? Or am I just making wild speculations in hoping that one of my favorite movies helped inspire one of my favorite animated shows?

Todd Jensen writes...

This is a sort of response to your comments on doing or not doing a Gargoyles/super-hero crossover of any sort. You mentioned that you didn't see it happening, short of a crossing between parallel universes, because the Gargoyles Universe and the super-hero universes of DC and Marvel Comics are very different in style. From what I know of mainstream super-heroes (which, I will confess, isn't all that much), I can certainly agree with you.

Take Batman, for example. The Batman Universe is clearly different enough from the Gargoyles Universe. In the Batman Universe, the "super-villains" are more out in the open, with the public all too aware of them. In the Gargoyles Universe, the "super-villains" are more low-profile; the general public don't know that Demona, Thailog, Oberon's Children, and the Illuminati actually exist. They know about Xanatos and Macbeth, but only in terms of their public personas; they know about the Pack, but only as "TV actors who went bad" - I haven't seen any indications that the general public know as yet about Jackal and Hyena being cyborgs now or Wolf being a mutant wolf-man. They don't even know for certain about the gargoyles until the end of "Hunter's Moon Part Three" - and even then all that they know is that the gargoyles exist, and nothing more than that.

In conventional super-hero universes, the weird and paranormal is very public and high-profile, known to the public. In the Gargoyles Universe, the weirdness exists just as surely, but is far more "covered up". For this reason, I can't seriously imagine Batman or Superman or Spiderman or the X-Men existing in the same universe as the gargoyles.

Todd Jensen writes...

This is a comment inspired by your recent answers to the "Tempest" question. While you never did manage to get "The Tempest" into Gargoyles outright (and I found that a pity, for my own part), I've sometimes thought that Angela does resemble Miranda a little (in the same way that, to me, Thailog resembles Edmund in "King Lear" and Demona Shylock) - there's the same general concept there of a sweet, innocent girl being brought up on a mysterious magical island and filled with wonder at the outside world (Miranda's "brave new world" lines strike me as being just as suitable for Angela as they were for the original speaker). I just thought that you might be interested.

Mary Mack writes...

So, you didn't see The Phantom Menace.

SPOILERS

Lucky guy. That movie got me all bent out of shape for lots of reasons, and I think some of them stem from being a Gargoyles addict. I respect nonhumans. In Phantom Menace, the nonhumans were either villains (the inept flunkie-type, at that) or stupid as dirt and present only for comic relief. Anybody who could possibly save the day had to be human and under twenty-one, and somebody thought that having a nine-year-old boy destroy a battleship full of sentient beings was a GOOD idea. (Okay, so the kid grew up to be Darth Vader, but really, they practically threw him a party for mass murder!) Qui-Gon Jinn, our first real look at a Jedi Knight in his prime, cheated at dice. How very, very honorable of him. Darth Maul, who had the potential to be scary and evil and really, really neat, talked a little, did some impressive acrobatics (played by Toad from X-Men, now there's a good movie), and died. Seven minutes of screen time, tops. Folks mention racial stereotypes in the film; they're right. I wondered why those trade federation guys didn't just say "Ah, so!" and get it over with. Or why Jar-Jar didn't offer Obi-Wan a hit of whatever he was smoking. The direction was minimal, the dialog weak, and most of the actors seem too scared of Mr. Lucas to improvise. The special effects were eye-popping, but hardly ever seemed to have anything to do with the plot. One character is introduced solely as comic relief (Jar-Jar), and he has no witty repartee, just slapstick that occurs beacuse he's the stupid nonhuman.

Basically, you missed a gaping wad of nothing by missing Phantom Menace, and you're luckier than I am. That movie managed to sour me on Star Wars as a whole-- pre-Phantom, I'd read every book, bought action figures, comics, expensive expandable lightsabres... post-Phantom, zip. Gargoyles, Star Wars fiction, Star Trek, Sci-Fi and Fantasy books all gave me an appreciation for good stories where the villains were interesting, the plots thick, and the heroes not neccesarily caucasian humans. The Phantom Menace was bad. It was, to Star Wars, what the Goliath Chronicles was to Gargoyles. Only shorter.

Man Mountain writes...

Greg, You seemed confused on LSZ's use of "Zeroth." I first read it as ZEH-roth but then realized he meant
ZEE-rothe as in 0th, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Is that what confused you as well or am I just... um, dumb?

LSZ writes...

As to the Zeroth thing; I'm not sure if you used it or not, but it seemed a logical thing to call the pre-First Race; thought of this while reading Asimov on his Three and then Four Laws of Robotics..

Todd Jensen writes...

I just read the latest "early development" memo. I found it another fun "behind the scenes" peek at the early history of "Gargoyles".

The two bits that particularly stood out to me were:

1. The gargoyles fondness for partying (which was also mentioned in the earlier memos). That obviously pre-dated Goliath's introduction into the project, given that I have a very hard time imagine Goliath partying. The trio (whose proto-versions WERE in the original comedy development, I recall), yes, but Goliath - I don't even want to make the attempt.

2. Xanatos's original as the several-times-great-nephew to the evil wizard (the original of the Archmage, the Magus, or both?). The thing that stood out to me here was that the nephew character struck me from the description as sounding like a conventional cartoon villain rather than the very memorable and convention-flouting David Xanatos. It makes it amazing when you think over what this character would eventually become.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the memos, to see what other treasures they might contain.

Ambrosia writes...

Okay, this is a response to that S.T. Coleridge reference and suspending disbelief.
I've been blessed with a really great English teacher who I loved so much in Freshman Comp 101, that I took him again for Literature and again in Survey of Shakespeare. Last spring semester, he lectured a bit about how to read fiction effectively. In my notes I have written down:
"be imaginatively involved in the work" That's Mr. Farrell and not Coleridge. He then quoted Coleridge saying reading fiction should be "a willing suspension of disbelief." In other words, while reading about a giant dragon, you're not supposed to think to yourself, "there's no such thing as a giant dragon." In a work of fiction, you put yourself into that world... like a certain universe we all know and love.
Just thought I'd clarify.
On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with suspending belief either...