Blaise writes...

OUTFOXED

Okay, finally back on track since mid-March.

First off, yes I'll agree this ep had a few problems, which you pretty much pointed out in your ramble--animation problems, especially in relation to Goliath's size, and the extra flashback are somewhat annoying. Still, this ep did have some nice stuff. And the sound wasn't too bad, I still heard, and loved, Goliath's "That. Stings."

Anyway, as soon as I heard "Cyberbiotics" I was interested in where this would be going. Hearing the name "Renard" I instantly guessed some connection with Fox. Her being his daughter did cross my mind, but I didn't rule out any other possible relation to him.
(If I may digress here; I knew that "renard" was another name for "fox" from its usage in a children's book I had had for years, THE TOMTEN AND THE FOX. Just felt like mentioning that.)

As for Vogel...when I first saw him I laughed. I thought he was a wonderful in-joke, one of the best I had seen in any series. I'm surprised people had a problem with him looking like Owen (as I said, I thought it was extremely amusing). Of course, at the time I first saw the ep, I was surprised he ended up having as big a part as he did. I thought he would just have had that one appearance at the beginning and then, that was it. But he turned out to be a very important (and interesting) character in this episode.

Renard intrigued me...mostly because of his unhealthy appearance and use of a high-tech wheel-chair. Despite this, he had a reasonably strong voice and managed to "talk-down" to Goliath (something Todd and I both find amusing about the interaction between the two).

Fox: I loved seeing her in the "red sweater and tight, black pants" ensemble. Her fight with Xanatos was fun as well--he knocks her down once, she gets back up, pins his arm behind his back, and then takes him down with a flip. Fun!
I never picked up that Xanatos was afraid when he mentioned "test results." Probably because as soon as I heard that I figured out that Fox was pregnant (I was finally starting to expect greater things from this series).

Back on the Air Fortress--I had missed METAMORPHOSIS the first time this aired, so I didn't know who this "antonsevarius" was that Renard mentioned. I didn't pay it much mind though (after all, Renard had immediately before named Owen as an ex-Cyberbiotics employee, and that really interested me). Basically, I forgot all about it when I finally did get a chance to see METAMORPHOSIS, so when I watched OUTFOXED again, and heard Renard mention "Anton Sevarius," it was like finding out the connection for the first time.

On a similar (but not quite) note, when Renard mentioned "My Anastasia. My Janine." Well, I guessed right away that Janine was Fox's real name. I don't know why...maybe that just seemed to fit her better to me than Anastasia (who I then figured to be her mother).

Vogel's betrayal and return to Renard's aid were, in my opinion, handled quite well. I found Vogel's actions believable, and had no problem with his change of heart.

Goliath gives Renard a great speech on the difference between the minds of living beings and automotons, and the two have one of my favorite exchanges in the series.
RENARD: "One thing I do know is your debt to me has been paid in full. A ship for a ship. We are even."
GOLIATH: "No. We are friends."
RENARD: [laugh] Yes. Friends.

And then the tag! I knew Fox was the "Hang-gliding ninja" and that she was Renard's daughter by now. AND that she was pregnant. But I still enjoyed this tag. I really liked the discussion between father and daughter, and the way the revelations were handled. A very fun ep.

Another digression: When I showed this ep to my mother, she instantly recognized the voices of both Peter Scolari, and Robert Culp. Anyway, I thought they did great jobs, and I still love the little nuances Culp managed to invest in Renard.

Hopefully, I'll catch up with your rambles by tomorrow.

matt writes...

hmmm, you just said:Greg responds...

I have three offices. One in Beverly Hills, my freelance office. One in Burbank, my Disney office. And one in my home.

I almost NEVER answer questions at home, because I almost never log on from there. I'd rather spend time with my wife and kids.

I answer at one of the other two offices whenever I have a free hour or so.

Occasionally, on vacation, if I have web access, I'll stay up late and answer after everyone else has gone to bed. Like now.

i find that very funny, cuz its 4:30 am here right now and i'm watching your answers come in! i guess i'm a true fan... or just really bored and unable to sleep...

anyway, so the Canadians are going to be kicking themselves for not getting G2198-517, huh? is that cuz Canadians are smarter than us Americans? (that goes out to Pyro X, long story...)
and number 74 is a noun, hmmmm...

ok:

74- adherants
74- companion

i think your clues made it harder to guess... hmmm, i'll be back...

matt writes...

i just watched "Enter Macbeth". i think this was the first of lots of sad ending-episodes... after this in "Reawakening" Coldstone is awakened and apparently dies, in "Metamorphosis" Derek is mutated and decieved by Xanatos, really sad ending, in "Legion" Coldstone is brought back but is destroyed by a virus, and on and on until "Hunters Moon" when the Clocktower is destroyed and the gargoyles are exposed. a very bittersweet series, really, i love it! anyway, back to my point, in "Enter Macbeth" you opened with Xanatos in prison in a dark cell eating bad prison food, while the gargs are living it up at the Eyrie, Broadway cooking in a well-equiped kitchen, Hudson watching the tube in his own tv room, Brooklyn and Lex playing cards in the big foyer, Goliath reading in the nice library, and the Grimorum safe in a high-tech glass display case. but by the end of the episode the clan is the ones living in the dark uncomfortable cell, the Clocktower, no more tv room, you have to break into the public library to read, the best you have for a kitchen is a hotplate, and the Grimorum is now stored in a closet behind a regular wooden door, and as for Xanatos, he's back home now, living the good life atop the worlds tallest building. now, my literature teacher in high school taught me to always see symbolism in everything and though i didn't see it before, this whole episode teems with it. i just wanted to congratulate you and the writers, this is great television, i think!

Phil writes...

I've been away for awhile (due to computer problems), and now I'm trying to catch up.

I read your list of characters ages (from about three weeks ago) and you gave Alex's tentative birthdate as 7/9. That's the same day as mine! Cool!

More later

VF writes...

Thought I'd take a stab at providing another viewer's reaction to an episode for you. So here are my observations about/reaction to "High Noon" -

The concept of there not being any scent in Coldstone's world was not jarring - it just seemed to be additional explanation of the rules that I was willing to go along with. It was already established in my mind that this was an alternate world that didn't necessarily have to follow the same rules of nature that my reality does. But I also thought, well, if it can be "real" enough to have heather growing in distant fields, why couldn't it also be artificially scented? But I assumed it was a technological limitation, not the unwillingness of a gargoyle soul to allow herself to smell.

I appreciated the continuity and progression of demonstrating Hudson and Broadway practicing their reading skills openly in front of their family, and I was genuinely pleased to see them doing so well. That I have reactions like this to a cartoon still amazes me, I have to confess. But those subtle yet significant touches provided further evidence to me that this show had some good writers and editors behind it.

Also, there was a lot of nice characterization showing Elisa's relationship with the rest of the clan - the exchange with Broadway about doing the right thing and claiming not to be a hero (when she so obviously is) and with Lex when she offers encouragement and shows confidence in him when she says he'll figure out the programming to fix Coldstone. Also, the part when Demona tells Macbeth her only consolation of enduring the pain of transformation is that he gets to suffer as well is priceless. It's deftly comical and tragically in character simultaneously. So lots of good storytelling and pacing of plot revelation going on here.

I did think it was a bit patronizing of Goliath to tell Elisa she has a whole city to protect and equally patronizing for her to order a full report later. I just sort of winced a bit at that exchange and thought "What was that all about?" I also had an adverse reaction to what I thought was Macbeth's really low blow in the library with the book reference, "And I know how to read them." For someone who had established such a strong code of honor, even among his worst enemies centuries earlier, that seemed more hurtful than any physical blow and really beneath him. So I'll generously attribute such uncouth behavior to his being under a spell, I guess.

In any episode of the series, I trust the reliability of Bronx's nose above all (i.e. in this case, his detection of Demona behind the wall of the closet). Yes, there are some constants in the gargoyle universe.

When the clan questions how two foes like Demona and Macbeth could be in collaboration, Hudson observes -- incorrectly but plausibly that -- "Maybe misery loves company." Ed Asner delivers that line with great finesse, hinting at a lot of complexity behind a seemingly simple statement. For one who appears to be an old-fashioned traditionalist, Hudson understands a lot more than other characters (and even viewers) may give him credit for.

Elisa had a very sweet and sincere line about not being able to leave the clock tower without knowing whether the clan was safe. She's a very dedicated friend. I was surprised that Demona would reveal her dual personality and transform in front of Elisa. I just thought that would be a trump card Demona wouldn't give up so easily, I guess. But I certainly thought it was completely in character for the scantily clad Dominique to strut her stuff in front of her rival - a pure sign of over-compensation for what is really subconscious insecurity and even a bit of self-loathing.

A line of Elisa's that really did not fit, in my opinion, was, "No more monsters - good or bad." I never, never would have believed, after "Awakenings" at least, that Elisa would've ever used that word in relation to her gargoyle friends. But I loved her new-found resolve with Morgan's help. Heroism shines through and adrenalin provides the needed strength; it's the great climax in the episode - the fight scene itself is simply the end result and is secondary to that moment.

More good lines follow: "I'm here to save him." "You fight like a rookie." (Elisa deserved some kind of one-up on Demona) and Macbeth's rye observation to a now Othello-controlled Coldstone that, "It seems your allegiance has shifted slightly" - here proving the concept that, when it comes to drama and comedic effect, more often than not, less is more. Incidentally, the error with the three Desdemonas' hair coloring didn't keep me from thinking of the Weird Sisters connection - I'm trained quite the opposite - any time I see three of anything in the series I'd think Weird Sisters, regardless of coloring.

And then there are the additional interesting revelations at the end, implying more to come in future episodes. But for me, that was almost just obligatory informational stuff needed to move the story along, it wasn't where the true strength of the episode lay.

For what it's worth. ...

matt writes...

a couple of weeks ago Jim R. asked about the picture of Brooklyn on the "Latest Responses" page, i recently pulled out my old gargoyle comics and found that that picture was taken from Issue 5 when Brooklyn and Lex were about to go "para-sailing", i guess he found that shirt wherever he found the skis and stuff. oh, and like i told Jim R. i think the thing on his shirt is *in Californian surfer accent* a "monster wave, dude!" hehehe...

Steven L. writes...

Hey,
I'm sorry this question has been asked before. I've been going through the archives for a while now (this'll be my first question) and I haven't come across any references to it, but you never know, right?
Anyway, I just saw a repeat of "Sentinel" last night, and it struck me as a very pilot-esque episode, like you'd set up in mind for a spin off (something like "Widget the World Watcher" meets "Transformers", only more grounded in reality). And yet, you seem to have no intention to spin it off. How come? Did you originally intend to, but decided against it as you felt it wasn't strong enough to carry a series, focusing instead on the other possible spin-offs? Or am I just making things up in my head?
Thanks.

Jim R. writes...

Doh! Wrong word in my last question: "conscience" is supposed to be "conscious" as in aware of one's surroundings. Sorry about that.

Blaise writes...

HIGH NOON

Came back to the rambles a bit later than I expected. Anyway....

First off, I felt the animation in this episode was some of the best in the series--fluid, characters had "solidness," and just overall very well done. My only real complaint is that sometimes the positions and movements of the characters seemed a bit too...BIG. Over-dramatic perhaps. The most obvious example is the very one you mentioned, Demona's "sex-pot poses." Those always throw me, because they just didn't really seem to fit the scene for me there. I suppose the idea put forward by several other fans--she was showing off against Elisa--is probable, but still.... On the other hand, I must admit that, yes, it is certainly...appealing to watch...the poses.
ANYWAY, still some pretty good animation. But while we're on the subject, Desdemona's skin-color seemed a bit lighter to me in this episode.

Yes, Michael Dorn does a great job contrasting the two personalities in his voice, doesn't he? Just the difference in between hearing him as Othello talking to Desdemona in cyberspace, and then as Coldstone/Iago calling Demona "Sister" is chilling. His voice work is one of the highlights of the episode IMHO.

I did not balk at the progress Hudson and Broadway made in their reading. For an animated television show, I thought this was a very nice show of development among the characters. Pity that even after reading it correctly when it really counted in THE SILVER FALCON, Broadway still has trouble reading the word "right." And perhaps, after a year of watching television, Hudson should have picked up the "hit the sack" phrase--he seemed to pick up "sitting ducks" a lot quicker than Broadway--but still, it was a fun touch.
I do kind of like the modesty Elisa displays in describing herself as no hero. I don't know why, but I do.

I didn't recognize Demona and Macbeth IMMEDIATELY. As soon as they were in the station and I managed to notice the beard on the "felon" I figured it was Macbeth. I didn't recognize Demona until she started talking (who couldn't recognize Marina Sirtis' voice as Demona?). What remained foremost on my mind was why these two were working together. I actually didn't wonder too much about the rest of the stuff--maybe it just didn't occur to me, or perhaps I figured all would be revealed in good time and just suspended my disbelief. I didn't think the two were capable of escaping the Weird Sisters, though. That is, unless the Sisters wanted them to.

As for Elisa...she REALLY should have gone to the doctor if she was out for that long. I admit, in light of this "enforced nap" I always had a problem swallowing Elisa's statement that she had only slept "a few hours in the last 40" (despite the fact that she certainly LOOKED like that statement was true).

I buy that Elisa found Demona familiar (you're right, there's that sort of connection between them).

The transformation sequence of Demona from human to gargoyle (and later from gargoyle to human) were EXCELLENT. I had been waiting to see her change since THE MIRROR and was a bit frustrated that it didn't occur anytime durning the five eps with her between then and now (y'see, I didn't know about the "tiers and tentpoles" back then). Thus, I was quite happy to see her working in human form here. Also, somehow I just KNEW the transformation was going to involve pain. I don't know why...maybe it's what I would have done with the spell if I had cast it on Demona. I can be cruel sometimes.

I'm afraid that the fact that we had three villains teaming up against the heroes didn't hit me as strongly as you would have liked. It's not just that the villains had such complexity, but also the fact that Macbeth and Demona usually are fighting each other. That kind of undercut some of the "WOW, THREE VILLAINS" factor. Also, the good guys still outnumbered the villains (even though the villains managed to outthink and incapacitate them)

I do love the interaction between Goliath and Elisa when the gargoyles head off to Macbeth's. I didn't find Goliath too smug, and I thought Elisa's "full report" remark was kind of fun and endearing.

The sequence at Macbeth's house was pretty cool as well. I also love it when Goliath taps the camera with his wing--I always was interested in seeing what other uses there were for that extra pair of appendages in addition to gliding.

"Just remember, one of them hates your guts." Lex has such a wonderfully blunt method of stating the situation. ;)
Of course Goliath responds with the equally fun "Then I'll just have to be very careful" after he's punched out the console.

Broadway: "Look at all these books!"
ZAP!
Macbeth: "And I know how to read them."
Nice exchange that succeeds in taking us back to LIGHTHOUSE. Also, it managed to impress my brother as being an excellent insult.

Bronx sniffs Demona behind the false wall, Brooklyn takes no notice. A repeat of the events that took place at the castle in CITY OF STONE. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I get the feeling Brooklyn's going to pay a bit more attention to Bronx's hunches after this.
BTW, I just love it when Bronx scratches at the door...and gouges the wood.

I figured Macbeth in the library was probably directly over Demona in the...whatever room it was, for the pain link to work.

Yeah, the villains pulled a smart one with Coldstone/Iago volunteering the added information. I didn't doubt that they would.

Elisa and Demona have their encounter, and then Elisa runs into Morgan. I was surprised to find that Keith David was Morgan's voice--it sounded so different from Goliath. But Morgan is a fun character with some nice insight.
I don't know why, but I like Elisa's mention that if she went to sleep and woke up there would be "no more monsters, good or bad."

Elisa goes to the castle, unarmed, and Macbeth goads Demona into facing Elisa the same way. This is one instance where it makes sense that the villain gives up the advantage of a weapon--just the honorable Macbeth playing on Demona's contempt for Elisa to ensure an honorable fight. And I like that Elisa holds her own well. I'm glad that she didn't just turn out as another "damsel in distress" but worked as a heroine in her own right.

Meanwhile, through all of this, Othello has been hiding away, against Desdemona's pleas. Personally, Desdemona strikes me as the more mature of the two of them, the wiser and more patient (she continues to stick by this guy no matter what--this is one heck of a woman...gargoyle, whatever).
Even though the hair-color was always off, I recognized the three Desdemonas as the Weird Sisters (c'mon, triplets talking nearly as one, in a situation concerning Demona and Macbeth; who else could it be?).

Othello makes the decision and the fight for control begins. You have to admire the sacrifice Othello and Des make for the sake of keeping Iago in cyberspace. I couldn't help feeling sorry that it had to be this way.

After the fight's over, and the chains are blasted, Coldstone takes his leave for the safety of others. A couple things I really like here--Coldstone refers to Elisa as "my lady" and bows, and when Coldstone shakes his head to defer staying until Goliath wakes, he only is able to close the biological eye. His robotic eye can't close. Pity that only shows up here.
And then the jogger comes in for some nice comic relief.

The final tag struck me--kind of like the first Xanatos tag I saw. Coldstone was a feint just to get the talismans--the three the Archmage said would grant "ultimate magical power!" There they were! Macbeth and Demona start to question the situation, and in come the Sisters. I knew they had been involved, but I didn't quite know what they wanted the talismans for. "The coming battle" eh? Well, that was one I couldn't wait to see.

Of course I had to wait a while for AVALON. :)

Anonymous writes...

This one's not really smart assed, but still amusing:
Question-
We definitely know that the Illuminati, and particularly Percival/Duval, would have been major antagonists for "Pendragon". Now that the "Arthurian survivors" contest is over, could you tell us now what other recurring antagonists you had planned for Arthur and Griff?

Greg responds...

Ask me later, but with more style.