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ASSURED MUSINGS 2022-06 (Jun)
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Guest Ramble
I'm attaching a ramble J. Michael Straczynski posted back in 1995 on usenet in response to a very negative reaction to even a hint at a same-sex tryst on an episode of "Babylon 5". The point of Greg Weisman posting this is not to get into a discussion of religion or LGBTQ+ issues. Or even to get into a discussion of "tolerance," which was a big buzzword in the 90s, but which, as I've stated before in many ways, I find insufficient. The point of me posting this is to show that just because SOME FANS don't like something doesn't mean EVERY FAN feels the same way. And so, be careful what you wish for, right? Because if people start telling creators what they can and can't put into their shows, you may not like what ELSE they remove.
See, here's where I start to have a problem. For starters, I don't do any thing to be politically correct, or politically incorrect, I do what I do in any story because that's what the story points me toward. Anybody who says "It's not necessary" isn't entitled to that judgement, frankly; you don't know what's necessary to the story. And by framing it in the "is this NECESSARY?" way is designed to make you defend your position when such defense isn't the point; is it NECESSARY to have humor? to have a romance? to have correct science? No, *nothing* is NECESSARY. It's what the writer feels is right for that scene, that story, that character.
"Oh, well, I saw it, but was all that violence NECESSARY?" This is, frankly, a BS observation usually offered by someone with an agenda, who wishes to invalidate the notion of an artistic view and impose some kind of quota, or objective criterion to what is and isn't necessary for a movie or film. As far as I'm concerned, the first person to throw this into a discussion has, frankly, just lost the argument.
Point the second: one of the most consistent comments I get, in email and regular mail, is the spirituality conveyed in the show, that we have shown, and will continue to show, tolerance toward religion, even created sympathetic religious characters. "Thank you for your tolerance," they say...until we show somebody or some action THEY don't like...and at that point suddenly it's a lot of tsk-tsking and chest thumping and disapproval; so okay, how about I just stop all positive religious aspects of the show?
It seems to me, that if I do *all that* with religion, and with thje (the) simple act of showing maybe ONE PERSON in all the long history of TV science fiction across 40 years has a different view of life, that the show is somehow degraded, or downgraded, or dropped in opinion...this simply reinforces the notion, held by many, that a lot of folks in the religious right wish to make sure no other perspective or lifestyle is ever shown on television, at any time, unless in a negative fashion.
The thing of it is, while on the one hand I'm getting praise from religious folks for addressing spirituality in my series (speaking here as an atheist), I've gotten flack from others who think it has no place in a SCIENCE fiction series, and why the hell am I putting something in that goes right against my own beliefs? "Because," I tell them, "this show is not about reflecting my beliefs, or yours, or somebody else's, it's about telling this story, about these people, with as much honesty and integrity as I can summon up. That means conceding the fact that religious people are going to be around 260 years from now." Well, fact is, all kinds of people are going to be around 260 years from now. And what did the anti-religion folks say specifically about including spirituality in my series? "It's not *necessary*," they said.
Translation: they didn't like it. Well, tough. It was right for this story, and this show. And it seems to me rather hypocritical for some folks, who applaud the show for tolerance, for my standing up to those who want to exclude religion from TV, to then turn around and say the show is diminished because it showed that same tolerance...to another group or perspective. I guess tolerance is only okay as long as it's pointed one way.
You say that as a christian, you think any sex except that between a husband and a wife to be wrong. Well, as I recall, the bible also speaks against murder. We've depicted deaths by the hundreds of thousands. (And we're talking here about the *depicting* of the act, simply showing it, not the value judgements made after the fact.) Why does the one (which is so barely hinted at as to be almost invisible) cause the show to be diminished where the other does not?
My job is not to reinforce your personal political, social or religious beliefs. My job is not to reinforce MY personal political, social or religious beliefs. Then it isn't art or storytelling anymore, it's simply propaganda. My job is to tell this story, about these people, AS people, as mixed and varied as they are today. And there is no outside objective criteria as to what is, or isn't *necessary* in a story; that is the sole province of the author. You may or may not like it. You may or may not choose to watch it. Just as people who don't like to see religion and god discussed on TV may dislike it or choose not to watch it.
But you'll excuse me if I see complaints about this one little thing from the religious side, after all I've done to present religious characters and the religious life in a positive fashion, to be hypocritical and frankly somewhat ungrateful. It's as though all this means nothing because of one thing, one outside-imposed litmus test that disregards anything and everything else that has been done.
So straight up...if I should stop tolerating or showing viewpoints that are not my own (spoken as someone who is absolutely straight), then should I now stop showing religion as well? Because that's what this comes down to. Is that what you want? Because religion is included at my discretion as well as anything else on this show. You want me to be less tolerant? Just say the word.
Elm writes...
Has the production budget for Young Justice changed since it was on Cartoon Network? (Asking if S1, S3 and S4 have the same costs)
Greg responds...
It's basically the same. We have more money now than we had then. But things also cost more now. So overall, it's largely unchanged. We do have a higher budget for after-effects now in S4, then we did in S3, and WAY bigger than we did for S1 & S2.
Matt Itelson writes...
Since Alan shook Red Tornado's hand when he was inducted into the Justice Society, was he the leader then?
Greg responds...
I'm sure they all shook his hand - well, maybe not Fate - so in and of itself, that handshake doesn't prove much.
Anonymous writes...
What were the names of Billy Batson's parents?
Is Mary his sister?
Greg responds...
1. I don't currently seem to have that info. I'd research it before we named them in canon.
2. Biologically and emotionally, yes. Legally, no.
Mr Fan and Mr Disappointed writes...
Hi Greg ! Hope you're fine !
I have a really important question (and some criticism) to write. To explain quickly before :
I've just watched "Teg Ydaer" and I got to say this is the episode I hated the most of the show, and by far. And I'm afraid this will happen again. I hated it against my will, believe me, but that was too much. Aside the fact that this is Zatanna's arc and that she got like 3% of the screentime so far, with absolutely NO character development, I'm deeply angered that you introduced religion in such a central matter. We had a long part of the episode dedicated to religion and talking about how great it was, giving hope to people and so on ... And to me, during that moment, that wasn't a superhero show anymore ! That was religion propaganda. What's next then ? Telling kids how great it is to join the Jehovah's Witnesses or any other religion, sect or cult because it gives hope ? To someone like me, who considers (and I speak only from my perspective, don't want to offend anybody here) religion like one of the most silliest and dangerous things ever happened in human history, that's really disgusting. Not only that, but to see my favorite show becoming something absolutely irrelevant to its subject, I felt really sick.
Like I've seen in some comments before me, that feels like positive discrimination. It feels like Khalid is here ONLY because he's a muslim.
Now, I'm not a hater, I love this show, I don't want to get in a fight about religion or belief, I'm just a fan deeply concerned, sad and disappointed with the direction that the show is taking today, and who feels betrayed more and more.
SO, to come back to my question, have you planned to develop or talk again about religion ? And do you regret having done that in such a proportion, or done it at all ?
Thanks for reading, hope I wasn't too harsh or rude ;)
Greg responds...
Hm.
No regrets. And I suppose it SHOULDN'T come as any shock to you that I'm quite proud of that episode. Very proud, actually.
I personally have tremendous distaste for organized religion - including my own, i.e. Judaism. But that doesn't change the fact that faith is a huge part of many, many, many peoples' lives. We're telling a story about people. (Not about super-heroes, by the way, which is incidental - its eye-candy - but about people. If all you want is super-hero adventure, then you are shopping at the wrong store and have been since episode one of season one.) Please don't even start to tell me that I can't tell stories about the things that concern people. Irrelevant? Give me a break.
And that's aside from the fact, that although I don't think religion should be an out of bounds topic, I don't actually think that this story was about religion. It was about faith, through the vehicle of religion. But maybe that's splitting hairs.
I do resent the notion that Khalid only exists in the story because he's Muslim. I think that's very short-sighted. Why not say he's only in this story because he's a medical student, which got equal play in this episode and more play in the two episodes that preceded it? I believe Khalid is as fully realized a character as any we've had - relative to his amount of screen time. Do you think Zatara only exists in the story because he's Catholic. (But good on you that you're not a hater.)
(I also love that you think using Jehovah's Witnesses as some kind of ultimate example of cultish religious extremism is a-okay. It's not.)
Now, I will admit that I do wish we could find more room for Atheism in the show. Even for Agnosticism. Although I am neither, I admire both more than I admire any and every organized religion. But the problem with setting your series in a world with ghosts (like Secret) and demons (like Etrigan), is that it doesn't leave much space for doubt. [Artemis knows - KNOWS - that the soul exists because she's SEEN one, and so has our audience.] That's a puzzle I'm still trying to solve. But I have no intention of solving it by pretending that religion doesn't exist and doesn't mean something significant to literally MILLIONS of people.
(And for the record, I'm a secular pagan Jew and an animist.)
As for the BITCHING about Zatanna not getting enough attention, I officially roll my eyes at you. This is without a doubt Zatanna's story from moment one to moment last. I get why it's not clear to you back in 411, but, hey, way to be patient. And if it's not clear by the end of the arc, then all I can do is shrug. Zatanna doesn't need to dominate screen time to make this her story. That notion is just silly to me. I also find it sardonically amusing that at least some fan or another has complained to me about how the headline character of a given arc is not getting enough screen time or attention... in literally ALL six of the arcs. I think Nightwing fans may have some - small - justification for these complaints. But for the others, all I can say is that you've created your own expectations about what YJ:P was supposed to deliver for your personal favorite character. Instead, Brandon and I delivered what we wanted to deliver about each character. The rule, as always, being that if we aren't passionate about the show we're creating then how can we expect anyone else to even have a shot at being passionate about what they're seeing? There is no other way for us to create.
And, no, I don't think you were too harsh or rude (though your message above did read to me as obnoxious, which isn't the same thing). But I may be bordering on all those negative qualities in my response. If so, understand that I am truly inundated with comments from "fans" telling me I've done them wrong. With fans who are "sad" or "disappointed". With fans who are trying to convince me that I don't like my own show - or that I wouldn't like it if I simply listened to them and/or thought about if for a few minutes. (Your second to last paragraph is basically doing that.) But the thing is that Brandon and I listened to a lot of people and gave TONS of thought to everything in every episode. Way, way more thought than most shows get, I know. I know. I'm not saying we're above making mistakes, but we didn't do entire episodes by accident.
Now, before you say, "Hey, if everyone's telling you that your stuff sucks, maybe it does," you should know we get WAY more praise than we get criticism. Way more. And of course, the praise is nice but washes over me, and only the criticism sticks. I honestly should ignore ALL of it, criticism and praise, but I'm not that bulletproof. It makes me sad and disappointed. And frustrated. Very, very frustrated. Even if the nay-sayers are only a small (but vocal) minority. And that must be all they are, because our numbers this season on HBO Max are stunningly good. Today, I saw numbers that indicated we have more views this year than any other animated super-hero series on ANY streaming service. (Because, yes, we still have super-heroes in YJ, despite what you believe are my best efforts!) We even beat out a couple of prestige live-action super-hero series. Thus, not everyone thinks we suck. Most clearly don't.
So all of you out there who are going to read this post and feel the need to post a criticism of me here or on twitter (while tagging me) for responding in this harsh, rude obnoxious way... stop. Please. Put yourselves in my shoes for a minute. No one's saying you have to like the show. Certainly no one is forcing you to watch it. (Seriously, I think our season four hate-watchers alone must outnumber our entire audience for season one.) But that doesn't mean you need to sling your $#!^ my way. Be kind. Kinder than I'm being, I suppose. And I'll try to be kinder, too. Thanks.
"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes."
--Walt Whitman
Marvelman writes...
Mary still has 1/3 of the power of Shazam. Does she drain power from Billy and Freddy even when she is not using it?
Greg responds...
She doesn't drain anything from either of them. And certainly gets nothing from (or owes anything to) Freddy.
That power is hers now. Given freely and impossible to return.
Anonymous writes...
Mr. Weisman,
Given that Vandal Savage has lived over 50,000 years, he would likely have known many truths about various world events and countless unsolved mysteries throughout history, am I correct?
Greg responds...
That does sound likely. Although there's no guarantee he happened to be present to witness any specific event you might have in mind.
And before anyone gets any bright ideas, please don't start asking me if he witnessed this or witnessed that. Questions like that would be ideas masquerading as questions, and at best would get a NO SPOILER response. Or they could be deleted.
Artemis writes...
Re-watching Gargoyles for the first time in a decade now that it's on Disney+
I could't find anything in the archive. (I did find the answers about Goliath & Demon's ages/changes tho)
1) How old is David Xanatos ? (I'm guessing 37 in the first ep based off Vows)
2) How old is Fox?
3) How long did they know each other vs how long were they dating ?
4) Did anyone sign a prenup ?
5) How many languages do Fox / David speak?
Honestly, despite how dramatic their lives are, they seem like they have a healthy & strong relationship. They both put all their cards on the table & seem to really love each other. I think they have the most honest relationship & will die old & in-love together.
Greg responds...
1. David Xanatos was born in 1955.
2. Janine Renard was born in 1966. Fox was legally "born" in 1991.
3. Uh... they started dating in 1990. Obviously, they met at some point before they started dating, but I don't have an exact date for that.
4. Probably.
5. I'm sure Fox speaks many. And David speaks a handful. But I haven't counted.
Coby Michael Dupre writes...
Fellow writer (albeit an amateur) here, and I gotta say: Dang dude, nice episode and I love the hyping up of this "new" girl Child but you had to resort to a neck snap? I'm still recovering from losing my favorite version of Superboy ever to that, even if it was a villain this time.
Greg responds...
R.I.P. Teekl.
Anonymous writes...
When was Nabu (Savage's son) born?
Greg responds...
I could've sworn I've answered this, but, fine: Nabu was born in 1836 B.C.E.
Blurs writes...
Did Robin and Zatanna sleep together?
Greg responds...
A gentleman never tells.
Fallenlegend writes...
Hey Greg!
I was one of the fans that keep asking an bugging about Mary Marvel (now Sargent) over the years and was pleasantly surprised to see you finally portray her.
I am actually extremely surprised how you caught on that obscure flaw of hers many fans don’t
Of how even in the old fawcett comics she was very very attached to her powers.
I recall there was an issue in the original fawcett run (Mary Marvel issue #4) were it is stated Shazam loses his powers every thousand years. And so did Mary herself.
So she extremely depressed and went crying to the point she felt useless for losing her powers, but still managed to save the day by her own power (similar to what you did) That in contrast to Billy who actually took losing his powers much better.
There are other examples in the comics, but usually she is the one to take it the worst of the marvel family when they get de-powered.
This also how she was corrupted im the infamous, and for some badly written, countdown comics were she got the black suit and went too drunk with power. And sacrificed her morality for power. Twice.
1.-My first question would be, am I right in the money, of you portraying her being too atached to her Shazam form being part of her “core true†and/or inspired by past stories?
Of course asking if she is ever going to transform is a spoiler so I am going to ask about her perspective instead. So my second question is
2-Does Mary consider giving up being Sargent Marvel as a permanent solution? As in does she gave up ever transforming? or just until she rehabilites and manages not too get drunk in power?
I am a bit sad we won’t see Sargent Marvel in action in the future, or the hole marvel family together, but still happy I got my wish on got to see your take on her.
Keep the great work!
Greg responds...
1. It all weighs in.
2. We'll have to see...
Anonymous writes...
Why did nabu bother testing zatanna’s students if he wasn’t planning on intervering anyway
Greg responds...
Well, I think he was trying to make a point to her. But I'll leave it up to your interpretation.
Marvelman writes...
In "Teg ydaer" there is brief shot of the Elders (the gods & heroes that give Shazam his power). Their appearance is much like their appearance in the live-action Shazam! show from the 1970s. Was this a deliberate shout-out to that series?
Greg responds...
Of course. (I mean, you thought it might be an accident or coincidence?)
Paul writes...
1) What is Sergeant Marvel's biological equivalent age? It was a surprise to see that she looked older than season 4 Mary, who would probably be about 20 years old.
2) What is Captain Marvel's biological equivalent age?
Greg responds...
1. Mary Bromfield was born in 2000.
1a. Sergeant Marvel was perpetually a biological 18.
2. Captain Marvel/Shazam is perpetually a biological 24.
Paul writes...
Quick question about "Tea Ydaer!" (which was a fantastic episode!):
I remember that it was reported from Ask Greg Live several years ago (maybe it was in 2015?) that the plan for Lt. and Sgt. Marvel was to have them both wear pants and have stars and sashes on their outfits to indicate their "ranks". Now this is not a criticism AT ALL, as I thought Sergeant looked amazing in the latest episode, but I'm just wondering if there's a reason why the stars and sashes were ultimately not used for Sergeant? (Unless they were there and I just didn't notice them.)
As always, Greg, thanks for your response and for your work on this amazing show!
Greg responds...
I guess by the time we got around to designing her, I had forgotten about stars and sashes.
NoOneSpecial writes...
1. What was the reasoning behind having the Team picking up souvenirs from their missions back in Season 1? I get that some items like the Helmet of Fate or Atremis' arrow would come into play later, but what was the initial intent behind it or the larger theme at work? Or was it done mostly for the reasons I stated?
2. By the end of Season 2, do the Team still collect souvenirs from their missions? Seems like they don't anymore since it's never brought up again.
3. Why did League allow the Team to hold onto the Helmet of Fate? Seems like that would be very dangerous souvenir to let the Team keep, whereas most of the other stuff is fairly benign.
Greg responds...
1. It was mostly a character beat for Wally.
2. I don't think so. Not consistently.
3. It was in the Cave, which meant it was still under League control.
Mr.Felipe Barros writes...
Hi Greg, i wanted to say that i simply love your shows(YJ and Spider-Man are my favourites) everthing that you write specifically attracts me and you are probably one of my favorite writers :D. Anyway, recently i was thinking about characters age in Spectacular Spider-Man timeline so here are some questions:
1. How old is Black Cat? i think i saw some interview podcast that you said she was nineteen(but im not so sure) nevertheless, do you think is weird for her to kiss a 16 year old teenager? even though she problably thought he was older.
2. Did someone besides Flash Thompson in Peter class(like Harry or Gwen, or Peter himself) made 17 in the space of 6 months that the show is pass?
3. When Peter was bitten by the spider in the field trip of his sophomore year, he was sixteen already or was he fifteen and made sixteen after sometime later?
4. How are you theses days?
4a. Sorry for any grammatical mistake, im brazillian and english is a little dificult to write. Anyway, i wish the best for you :)
Greg responds...
1. She's 19. She didn't know Peter was 16.
2. I don't know. Though Kenny and Rand were seniors, so they were probably 17 or 18.
3. I don't believe we ever set a specific birthdate for Peter.
4. Can't complain. I mean, well, I do complain. All the time. But I really shouldn't complain.
4a. Your English is WAY better than my Portuguese!
Ahadu Getachew writes...
Hey greg this is a two part question and i’m pretty this isn’t a spoiler question but when did Jason Todd become robin (Specifically how old was he) and how long was he on the team before he died? and thank so much for being the series back
Greg responds...
Jason Todd was born in 1999. He became Robin in Team Year Three. He died in the same year.
Noble Maiden writes...
Hello Mr.Greg. I have been a big fan of your work since I was 13 To this date, I love Gargoyles (which I love making art of them and creating many OC) and recently became a fan of Young Justice.
I have many questions, but I won't take much of your time. There's one doubt that has been on my mind about Elisa Maza for a while now.
I know that in a Police Unit there are many departments for different types of crimes, from homicide to cybercrimes.
So it makes me wonder if Elisa has a specific department. Seeing how much she investigates Organized crime like Dracon and robbery, makes me wonder if she is a detective in Special Investigations.
I would truly appreciate an answer and I appreciate giving your time to answer all our questions.
Greg responds...
There are specialized units, but not everyone is assigned to them. Elisa is in the Detective Squad.
Anonymous writes...
1. Exactly much money did Xanatos have to pay in order purchase Castle Wyvern? I mean, I know Owen said the cost was astronomical, but I'd still like to know the exact amount.
2. After Xanatos purchased Castle Wyvern, exactly how long did it take for the castle to be rebuilt on top of the Eyrie Building?
3. In part two of "Awakening," there seemed to be a moment where Xanatos appeared to look upset after the sun had set and the storm was occurring. Was the reason he looked upset at that moment was because he thought the castle was not high enough above the clouds and therefore he initially thought the stone sleep curse on the Goliath and his clan was not going to be broken?
Greg responds...
1. I dunno.
2. Well... check out the various entries in "This Day In Gargoyles History" in the Garg Universe Chronology section of ASK GREG, and you can do the math yourself.
3. I'm not sure he does look upset.
Marvelman writes...
To what was Klarion referring to in 4.10 by "the oppositions new arrangements"? Are we already supposed to know what he is talking about? Or, does this fall into spoiler territory?
Greg responds...
By now, it's not a spoiler. It would've been when you asked the question. He was referring to Zatanna's plan to alternate host bodies for Doctor Fate.
Musicfacter writes...
Hello Greg, I've already asked one question concerning M'gann but I wanted to ask another. Hopefully we aren't limited to the amount of questions we can ask. If so, I'd like this question to take precedence over my previous question as I'm particularly curious about it.
Given as ancient as Vandal Savage is and how far and wide he has traveled, is it the case that he is the Y-Chromosomal Adam of this Universe? If you are not familiar with this term, I'm asking is it the case that he is the most recent patrilineal ancestor (and maybe ancestor in general) that all human beings share? Is every being currently alive with human admixture - such as Superboy or Jonathan Kent - a direct descendant of Vandal Savage/member of his bloodline? I imagine that he is a direct ancestor of almost all humans who have ever lived as well .
Greg responds...
No. Not for all humans. I guess you could say he's that for all meta-humans, though, including the Homo Meta, Homo Magi and Homo Mermanus.
Liam writes...
1: Was matches Malone a real person or did Bruce simply choose that name since it sounded Irish?
1b: was he a Gotham city criminal?
2: how exactlyis a martian bio suit made? Is it a process similar to the bio ship msting or is it made by martians themselves?
3: are perry white and Marvin white related?
4: what exactly caused Terra to change her costume to her new one in season 4? Was it meant to be a tribute to Brion or markovia? Or it her distancing herself from her brother?
5: Is Dinah Lance identity public knowledge? If it's not how does she protected considering she's running around maskless.
Greg responds...
1. No spoilers.
1b. See above.
2. It's harvested.
3. No spoilers.
4. I honestly don't recall.
5. No.
5a. So's Superman.
Anonymous writes...
Did the meteorite create the metagene or was the metagene already within Vandal Savage and the meteorite only activated it?
Greg responds...
It's a good question.
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